# Peptide Expert on the Benefits, Risks & the Different Types

An episode of [Project 100 with Mark Bouris](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1767053714), 14 Jun 2026, 1 h 00 min.

Audio: https://p.podderapp.com/2544644999/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/2fb3740d-3436-44af-8cc0-a91900716aa5/05ac4e52-79fb-46b8-849c-b305000bd6d0/f8881f94-7327-4374-acf6-b46600389be9/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=ef13e652-7a19-41fd-9d0f-b305000bd6dc

Tim Piatowski is one of Australia's leading researchers on peptides and enhancement drugs, running the world's first steroid-checking trial and service. In this conversation, we cover everything from what peptides actually are to the underground markets driving their use across Australia. Tim explains the science behind popular compounds like BPC-157 and GHK-Cu, the risks of unregulated products, and why Australia's regulatory approach is pushing people toward dangerous illicit markets. We also explore the potential for peptides in healthy ageing, injury recovery, and why our government's silence on this growing trend is creating more problems than solutions. We speak about: • What peptides are and how they work as signalling molecules • BPC-157 for tissue healing and inflammation reduction • GHK-Cu copper peptides for collagen synthesis and skin health • Growth hormone releasing peptides like CJC-1295 and tesamorelin • The contamination crisis in illicit enhancement drugs • Legal pathways vs underground markets in Australia • How peptides could transform healthy ageing and falls prevention See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:00] Speaker 1: Tim Pontowski, Welcome to Project one hundred.
[0:02] Speaker 2: Maint Thanks Matt.
[0:04] Speaker 1: We got a lot to cover today in terms of
[0:06] Speaker 1: longevity and like the general theme about some of the
[0:08] Speaker 1: areas that you do a lot of research research in,
[0:11] Speaker 1: particularly in relation to peptides and hormonal health. I'd like
[0:15] Speaker 1: if you don't mind just to kick straight off.
[0:20] Speaker 2: A lot of us.
[0:21] Speaker 1: There's an assumption that everybody from people like yourself, that
[0:23] Speaker 1: everybody knows what a peptide is. I mean, it's a
[0:26] Speaker 1: weird word. It's a brand new word in our dictionary,
[0:28] Speaker 1: most people's dictionary. What the hell is a peptide?
[0:32] Speaker 2: Sure? So short chains of proteins, what.
[0:37] Speaker 1: Does that mean?
[0:38] Speaker 2: They're basically different types of amino acids, and they're like
[0:44] Speaker 2: a signaling molecules in the body. So they have an effect,
[0:48] Speaker 2: like a downstream effect that says do this or release this.
[0:53] Speaker 1: Or like a messenger.
[0:56] Speaker 2: Precisely.
[0:57] Speaker 1: So, So you just said a couple of words there
[1:01] Speaker 1: which most people won't understand either. So let me just
[1:03] Speaker 1: look at the word short chain amino acid. So where
[1:08] Speaker 1: does an amino acid come from? For example?
[1:11] Speaker 2: Sure? Look, well let's use steak as an example. So
[1:15] Speaker 2: when we talk about like whole foods that are predominantly,
[1:19] Speaker 2: you know, consisting of protein. Those proteins are made up
[1:23] Speaker 2: of essential amino acids.
[1:25] Speaker 1: And lots of other stuff I guess water and crap and.
[1:29] Speaker 2: Hopefully not crap you.
[1:31] Speaker 1: But there's a lot of stuff in there because I know
[1:32] Speaker 1: that if you buy a steak, let's see, you buy
[1:34] Speaker 1: a gram steak, only sixty grams that is protein. Correct,
[1:38] Speaker 1: So there's other stuff in there, water for some vitamins,
[1:42] Speaker 1: et cetera.
[1:42] Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And so within those there's you know, you
[1:45] Speaker 2: would have heard a lot of talk about, say, for example,
[1:48] Speaker 2: branch chain amino acids like leucine, valine, isoleucine, and there's
[1:53] Speaker 2: a whole list of those. But essentially those amino acids
[1:58] Speaker 2: make up the building blocks of, for example, our tissue,
[2:03] Speaker 2: so muscle tissue being one of those.
[2:05] Speaker 1: So I eats the meat, goes into a gut, My
[2:09] Speaker 1: gut does whatever it does to it, converts it into
[2:12] Speaker 1: I think it's called chime, goes into you your intestines,
[2:16] Speaker 1: and somehow your intestines look for these little amino acids
[2:18] Speaker 1: and grab hold of them, and what happens puts in
[2:21] Speaker 1: your bloodstream, does.
[2:21] Speaker 2: It and then creates a response. Right, we go, okay,
[2:27] Speaker 2: need to retain nitrogen balance. So positive nitrogen nitrogen balance
[2:32] Speaker 2: means hold onto the tissue. Let's accrue more tissue. So
[2:37] Speaker 2: in the interest again of skeletal muscle, let's you add
[2:41] Speaker 2: these little building blocks, and.
[2:44] Speaker 1: I mean the muscles sell see it. What do they do?
[2:46] Speaker 1: So the cells in your muscle go, oh, there's an
[2:48] Speaker 1: amino acid? What's it? What's it going to do? What's
[2:52] Speaker 1: your meno acid tell the muscle do? Or the muscle
[2:54] Speaker 1: sell or what does the muscle sell tell the mino
[2:55] Speaker 1: acid do? Is it just the sort of crossover the
[2:58] Speaker 1: cell wall and go inside and sort of start a
[3:00] Speaker 1: whole process of reproductionism. I don't know.
[3:03] Speaker 2: Well, I guess at that receptor. I guess there's going
[3:07] Speaker 2: to be a growth trigger.
[3:11] Speaker 1: It's messaging something to happen, maybe growth, perhaps perhaps growth
[3:16] Speaker 1: because you know, because you guys talk about short term
[3:18] Speaker 1: chain amino acid. So that's a normal amino acid that
[3:20] Speaker 1: we get from our food. So what's a short chain
[3:24] Speaker 1: amino acid?
[3:25] Speaker 2: Like? So under forty I think is the definition? So
[3:29] Speaker 2: in our forty what under forty chains and bonds? Bonds? Yeah,
[3:35] Speaker 2: So I guess in our gut. We've got, you know,
[3:38] Speaker 2: all these weird and wonderful things going on, and so
[3:42] Speaker 2: I think about fifty sixty years ago scientists started to
[3:46] Speaker 2: decide to pull those things out and have a look
[3:49] Speaker 2: at them. And as part of that, there's a number
[3:52] Speaker 2: of you know, peptides that exist, and so people have
[3:56] Speaker 2: been taking those out and trying to synthesize and look
[3:59] Speaker 2: at those effect specifically in lab settings. For what are
[4:05] Speaker 2: we now twenty twenty six, I'm going to say at
[4:07] Speaker 2: least sixty years.
[4:08] Speaker 1: They've worked out that our muscle cells respond to amino acids.
[4:14] Speaker 1: So someone's gone, well, how can we bypass me having
[4:17] Speaker 1: a stake can go through that whole process? How do
[4:21] Speaker 1: we put it in a in a with those things
[4:25] Speaker 1: called vile or testube with elou and put it into
[4:28] Speaker 1: a needle and then if I injected into my body,
[4:34] Speaker 1: it goes straight into straight into me as a with
[4:38] Speaker 1: this so called short chain amino acids. Is that the
[4:41] Speaker 1: deal about peptides? Is that sort of what it's about?
[4:44] Speaker 2: Yes, crudely y, crudely crudely. So the idea is like say,
[4:49] Speaker 2: for example, I want a particular response, right, I want
[4:52] Speaker 2: to increase collagens and synthesis. So I go, Okay, why.
[4:55] Speaker 1: I would I want to because people, I don't know what
[4:57] Speaker 1: you're talking about. Why I'm doing I don't when you
[4:59] Speaker 1: say college and synthesis. Is that the thing for our skin?
[5:02] Speaker 2: Yes? For example, skin elasticity contributes to that youthful appearance.
[5:07] Speaker 1: Right, give me some.
[5:09] Speaker 2: So say we want to increase you know, collagen production, synthesis,
[5:16] Speaker 2: tissue repair. Okay, we know that there's certain peptides that
[5:20] Speaker 2: responsible for that, and outside of me eating a steak,
[5:25] Speaker 2: there are other ways that I can trigger specifically that
[5:28] Speaker 2: response in a rapid fashion with a high level of
[5:31] Speaker 2: bio availability, because of course in the gut we lose
[5:35] Speaker 2: a certain percentage due to processes and everything else. But
[5:38] Speaker 2: I can get a very let's say, pure form of
[5:43] Speaker 2: a peptide of a product and then trigger that response
[5:47] Speaker 2: in my body. And so we know that in animal models,
[5:52] Speaker 2: for example, or in pre clinical work in the lab,
[5:55] Speaker 2: we know that certain peptides can trigger these responses that
[6:00] Speaker 2: we want. And that's the idea here is we go, Okay,
[6:04] Speaker 2: I want X to happen downstream. I want my body
[6:07] Speaker 2: to synthesize more collagen. I'm going to inject this What
[6:12] Speaker 2: do I inject for that one?
[6:13] Speaker 1: For skin?
[6:15] Speaker 2: You would have heard about g hkcu.
[6:17] Speaker 1: The copper peptide is copper an important element for us
[6:20] Speaker 1: to have in our system, lots in the brain. If
[6:23] Speaker 1: I'm just hanging out and not using peptides, where the
[6:27] Speaker 1: hell will I get copper from in my food or
[6:28] Speaker 1: something or really whole foods as copper in I don't know,
[6:34] Speaker 1: whatever it is, there's some food I should be eating
[6:36] Speaker 1: that has a proper stake. Example, really is it something
[6:38] Speaker 1: our collagen needs?
[6:40] Speaker 2: Well, yes and no. In that I think it will
[6:46] Speaker 2: help promote more synthesis. But like, do we need it
[6:49] Speaker 2: to function? Do we need like to augment it to function?
[6:53] Speaker 2: Not necessarily? Like if we're eating whole foods and you know,
[6:58] Speaker 2: operating as we should.
[7:00] Speaker 1: What are the reasons why, I mean, apart from extra
[7:03] Speaker 1: performance and now performing everyone in the world, what are
[7:07] Speaker 1: the basic reasons why peptide would be used? For example
[7:10] Speaker 1: that one, that one you just talked about collagen and
[7:12] Speaker 1: skin and hair and stuff.
[7:14] Speaker 2: So for example, let's go with copper pep GHK. See
[7:20] Speaker 2: you it's called copper pets called g h K see
[7:23] Speaker 2: you right, But let's go with that. So and I
[7:29] Speaker 2: think you tapped into like three good reasons there already.
[7:34] Speaker 2: But let's say you know, I want to be more
[7:38] Speaker 2: useful and beautiful. Then we know that in the pre
[7:42] Speaker 2: clinical evidence that we have that it has been shown
[7:45] Speaker 2: to decrease inflammation, increase wound healing again like in animals,
[7:53] Speaker 2: and too. I mean there's some evidence there around healthy
[7:58] Speaker 2: brain aging. So we'll come back to that. But I
[8:01] Speaker 2: think you know, all those things super attractive, right, no
[8:06] Speaker 2: human evidence yet except for topical creams different than injecting means.
[8:11] Speaker 1: Oh there's human evidence on the creams with that stuff
[8:13] Speaker 1: in it and it works. Yeah, okay, So why would
[8:18] Speaker 1: we inject a peptide instead of just using the cream?
[8:20] Speaker 2: And if its same sort of deal in terms of
[8:22] Speaker 2: the bioavailability, right, we lose a lot through the gut,
[8:26] Speaker 2: through the skin, I can get much more bang from
[8:28] Speaker 2: my butt. Why do we inject drugs intravenously?
[8:32] Speaker 1: Go go straight into the bloodstream. So it's about efficiency.
[8:35] Speaker 1: So peptide's got a lot to do with efficiency.
[8:37] Speaker 2: So I think efficiency is one. I think you tapped
[8:41] Speaker 2: into the idea that food isn't what it used to be.
[8:44] Speaker 2: And I think there's a lot of discussion around degradation
[8:47] Speaker 2: in terms of you know, us adding GMOs, us accelerating
[8:54] Speaker 2: you know, and promoting the growth of food faster, letting
[8:57] Speaker 2: it ripen on shelves, et cetera, et cetera, and meaning
[9:01] Speaker 2: that maybe it's more devoid of vitamins and minerals don't
[9:04] Speaker 2: used to be. Maybe it's more devoid of these other
[9:06] Speaker 2: things that we need. And then I think your other point,
[9:12] Speaker 2: you know, tapping into well, yeah, it's about healthy lifestyle, right,
[9:17] Speaker 2: But then at what point does healthy lifestyle intersect with
[9:21] Speaker 2: enhancement or enhancing my longevity or enhancing the way that
[9:26] Speaker 2: I live my life. There's probably things that I can
[9:29] Speaker 2: do to be closer to superhuman, right, and I think
[9:34] Speaker 2: there's a lot of interest in that at the moment.
[9:36] Speaker 1: If we could just keep talking about this copper pep tide.
[9:39] Speaker 1: Are you saying therefore that the peptide called ghk cu
[9:45] Speaker 1: is not approved for human use but people are using it?
[9:52] Speaker 2: Correct?
[9:52] Speaker 1: Has that worked? Like don't have to TA TGA approval
[9:56] Speaker 1: or FDA if you're America or whatever it is in
[9:58] Speaker 1: other places? How do you how does someone get hold
[10:02] Speaker 1: of this stuff? Is it illegal?
[10:03] Speaker 2: Then? So for us in Australia, Yeah, our Therapeutic Goods
[10:08] Speaker 2: Administration overseas approved medicines and at the moment, just coming
[10:13] Speaker 2: back to pepdide, so we have approved peptide medicines being
[10:17] Speaker 2: semi glue tide a zempic that's a peptid, right, and
[10:21] Speaker 2: trippetite you would have heard.
[10:24] Speaker 1: Of that's another glp one and so so those two
[10:28] Speaker 1: peptids are approved by the two GA here, right, but
[10:31] Speaker 1: they haven't approved g h k CU. And like, is
[10:36] Speaker 1: that someone made an application to get approved or how
[10:39] Speaker 1: does that work?
[10:39] Speaker 2: I mean during that I guess approval process, there needs
[10:43] Speaker 2: to be a body of evidence, right right, and so
[10:47] Speaker 2: to meet that body of evidence, we do pre clinical work,
[10:52] Speaker 2: We do observational work moved to hopefully eventually clinical work
[10:58] Speaker 2: and then human clinical trials and so on and so forth.
[11:02] Speaker 2: In I guess it increasing size and scope in terms
[11:07] Speaker 2: of the phases.
[11:09] Speaker 1: So are they using it illegally or they can get
[11:11] Speaker 1: it legally somehow? Is it like a Bible way of
[11:14] Speaker 1: type thing? No?
[11:15] Speaker 2: I mean if you're purchasing, So if I go into
[11:20] Speaker 2: my prescriber and you mean your doctor doctor, yeah, yeah,
[11:24] Speaker 2: and I have diabetes right, okay, TGAs approved semiglue type
[11:29] Speaker 2: zempic for clinical indication of diabetes management. I can go
[11:34] Speaker 2: and get that on a script. I can also get
[11:36] Speaker 2: my medicine prescribed off label. So I could go to
[11:39] Speaker 2: the doctor say I need to list some weight. Doctor goes, okay,
[11:42] Speaker 2: script semiglue tide, and then I use it. That is
[11:45] Speaker 2: all approved, legal, appropriate use. I could also go online
[11:52] Speaker 2: to a website, not a real website Australian peptides by
[11:57] Speaker 2: mark No, not by me, and I go on and oh, look,
[12:03] Speaker 2: I can buy se glue tide in a vial. I
[12:07] Speaker 2: could purchase that, I could order it to my door
[12:10] Speaker 2: and I could inject that semi glue tide. And then
[12:15] Speaker 2: I would be performing an illicit behavior because I'm using
[12:18] Speaker 2: a schedule for medicine in an unapproved manner.
[12:22] Speaker 1: Well, but what about JH CASEU and how a people
[12:25] Speaker 1: get hold of that?
[12:25] Speaker 2: Like same websites that stock these others.
[12:28] Speaker 1: They don't go through doctors. Can doctors pre se to you, Look,
[12:31] Speaker 1: I'll give it to you. But this is not approved.
[12:35] Speaker 2: So doctors do also have the power to prescribe unapproved
[12:39] Speaker 2: medicines right if they feel that that medicine is the
[12:43] Speaker 2: weight of the evidence suggests that that medicine can do.
[12:47] Speaker 1: In their opinion, so to speak.
[12:49] Speaker 2: I guess yeah, based on their medical opinion, right, So
[12:52] Speaker 2: sort of a little.
[12:52] Speaker 1: Bit by a bit. When that in that the user
[12:57] Speaker 1: is probably using it at their own risk.
[13:00] Speaker 2: Prescriber has got to feel confident in what they're doing.
[13:03] Speaker 1: I really do want understand a little bit more about
[13:05] Speaker 1: the injection side of these things. A bloke I know
[13:09] Speaker 1: says to me, I've got this GHK c U stuff.
[13:14] Speaker 1: There's a powder, and he said, yeah, you take it,
[13:17] Speaker 1: and he said you've got to mix it, mix it
[13:18] Speaker 1: with distilled water, and there's a whole set of instructions.
[13:21] Speaker 1: Like I just took it just because he said to
[13:24] Speaker 1: take you. I didn't use it because I was too
[13:27] Speaker 1: scared of thought. Bloody hell. How do you know if
[13:29] Speaker 1: you mix it? Is that what happens to people mixing
[13:31] Speaker 1: these things.
[13:32] Speaker 2: Up, and so it comes in a freeze rode powder.
[13:34] Speaker 1: Yeah, but then you've got to mix that up yourself.
[13:36] Speaker 2: With bacteria static water with what bacterial static water.
[13:40] Speaker 1: That's pretty hectic. Like, then you've got to make sure
[13:43] Speaker 1: you put the right amount into the to the injection thing.
[13:48] Speaker 1: The needle, and then you've got to like that sounds
[13:52] Speaker 1: pretty dangerous to me. Can you get it in a
[13:54] Speaker 1: like where it's already mixed.
[13:55] Speaker 2: Up some people, I guess local suppliers.
[13:59] Speaker 1: Is there someone who's sort of guarantee at least you're
[14:02] Speaker 1: in Australia, I know what happens to Mary's big time
[14:07] Speaker 1: it can. Is there someone here, like compounding chemists who
[14:11] Speaker 1: can sort of say, well, at least you know that
[14:13] Speaker 1: someone's made this stuff properly in a proper environment. You
[14:16] Speaker 1: know there's no crap in there, and there's no contaminants,
[14:20] Speaker 1: and maybe it's even being batch tested or something like that.
[14:23] Speaker 1: Does that thing exist in Australia? You have to buy
[14:25] Speaker 1: them online from overseas or powder form.
[14:28] Speaker 2: So this is another one of the issues here in Australia.
[14:31] Speaker 2: There is a you can import and compound here on
[14:36] Speaker 2: shore unapproved medicines as well as approved medicine.
[14:39] Speaker 1: See input all the ingredients and you compound them here
[14:42] Speaker 1: on shore.
[14:43] Speaker 2: You could do that. You could also that's legal. That
[14:46] Speaker 2: is legal, but obviously via the approved prescription pathway I.
[14:51] Speaker 1: Spoke, you're going to get a doctor to prescribe it.
[14:53] Speaker 2: If I imported compounded and then sold through just online
[14:57] Speaker 2: or whatever. Then that is a different system occurring.
[15:01] Speaker 1: So what would happen as a doctor would probably go
[15:04] Speaker 1: to the compounding place and order the thing for me
[15:08] Speaker 1: if I wanted to try it, as opposed to I
[15:10] Speaker 1: go the doctor doctor saying may I can mark, let's
[15:13] Speaker 1: have a crack at this, and the doctor write a
[15:15] Speaker 1: prescription to the compounding company who then send it to me.
[15:19] Speaker 2: That's an option, or you go into the pharmacy yourself.
[15:24] Speaker 1: I govern myself.
[15:25] Speaker 2: Yet the other alternative, of course, is online. We have
[15:30] Speaker 2: these globally mediated markets. I go in to the website,
[15:35] Speaker 2: things are compounded offshore and I get what I get right.
[15:42] Speaker 1: Right, That's scary. You want to make sure about the
[15:45] Speaker 1: you know, the the origins of the stuff and also
[15:51] Speaker 1: the process associated with and not necessarily stamp. But like
[15:55] Speaker 1: that's someone in Australia's at least licensed for you to
[15:58] Speaker 1: try it, you know, because the contaminants of the rule worry.
[16:02] Speaker 1: I would have thought with some of these circle peptides.
[16:06] Speaker 2: So, I mean, one of the bigger programs that I
[16:10] Speaker 2: run is the world's first steroid checking trial and service.
[16:15] Speaker 2: So it's called roid Check, roid Check, roid Check, So
[16:19] Speaker 2: in Roid Check in twenty twenty four and twenty twenty five,
[16:22] Speaker 2: we took in illicit anabolic androgenic steroids from community. We
[16:29] Speaker 2: then tested here in Australia in Queensland YEP tested them
[16:34] Speaker 2: and released those results back to people along with a
[16:37] Speaker 2: health intervention about safer.
[16:39] Speaker 1: Well, it's a bit like drug testing basically that they
[16:42] Speaker 1: have at festivals. And what was the finding? What was basically?
[16:45] Speaker 1: What was it? Most of stuff okay or so?
[16:48] Speaker 2: We had three hundred samples. I think we could test
[16:51] Speaker 2: about one hundred and seventy of them. Out of the
[16:54] Speaker 2: samples that we tested, less than one in ten was
[16:57] Speaker 2: the right steroid well in the right dose who And
[17:00] Speaker 2: then we tested a subset of those and out of
[17:04] Speaker 2: those we had a high level of them which contain
[17:10] Speaker 2: toxic heavy metals, lead, arsenic, cadmium outside of permissible daily limits.
[17:18] Speaker 2: And so I guess those things together in terms of
[17:22] Speaker 2: illicit enhancement markets will call them probably lead me to think,
[17:27] Speaker 2: you know, perhaps peptide markets are looking the same, and
[17:31] Speaker 2: we're actually currently testing some peptides at the moment, don't
[17:35] Speaker 2: have any results yet.
[17:36] Speaker 1: That GHKCU, that's an interesting one. I'd imagine that'd be
[17:40] Speaker 1: big in the aesthetics industry. Some of the other peptides
[17:45] Speaker 1: I want to talk to you about. There's one that
[17:47] Speaker 1: everyone talks about is BBC one five to seven and
[17:50] Speaker 1: you can either take it in a tablet or a capsule.
[17:54] Speaker 1: But someone told me to buy aviability is not that great.
[17:57] Speaker 1: But although it is good for your gut. But then
[18:00] Speaker 1: you can get an injection one one. That's an injection
[18:04] Speaker 1: like a like a little vile thing. We pull it out,
[18:07] Speaker 1: injected into yourself. What is BBC one five seven is
[18:11] Speaker 1: supposed to do?
[18:12] Speaker 2: So? Body protection compound synthesized, that's what BBC stands for, synthesized.
[18:20] Speaker 1: Two ninety two.
[18:21] Speaker 2: Wow, yeah, case, I mean it's got evidence back from
[18:25] Speaker 2: nineteen seventy three.
[18:27] Speaker 1: Oh really a paper? Yeah yeah, Well there's about BBC
[18:30] Speaker 1: then body protection compound. So it's a compound of lots
[18:33] Speaker 1: of different things. I guess what is it supposed to protect?
[18:36] Speaker 2: So, I mean the evidence we have at the moment
[18:39] Speaker 2: preclinical with three human studies so far.
[18:44] Speaker 1: You mean three people or three three total studies?
[18:47] Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, and one human clinical trial which we've heard
[18:51] Speaker 2: nothing from since twenty sixteen. Wow, I don't know. What's
[18:55] Speaker 2: gone on there from the evidence available, looks like reduces inflammation,
[19:03] Speaker 2: promotes wound healing, tissue healing, promotes that collision synthesis, reduces inflammation,
[19:12] Speaker 2: promotes a new cell growth, all the things that you
[19:15] Speaker 2: want for you know, recovery.
[19:17] Speaker 1: Right, Well, that sounds like something I want. And where
[19:21] Speaker 1: would you I mean, like, let's say I've got a
[19:24] Speaker 1: left glute or left glute which I have from an injury.
[19:30] Speaker 1: Do you just put a needle into the area or
[19:33] Speaker 1: what do you put it into your gut? Or where
[19:35] Speaker 1: do you put it?
[19:36] Speaker 2: Same deal, there's a subcutaneously injected well.
[19:39] Speaker 1: Medy to explain with subcutaneous means.
[19:41] Speaker 2: So into the fatty tissue. A lot of people favor that,
[19:44] Speaker 2: you know, mid section area, but I guess wherever you've
[19:47] Speaker 2: got fatty tissue could be on your hips or yeah. Yeah.
[19:51] Speaker 2: But the idea is it creates a systemic or a
[19:54] Speaker 2: body response, right, rather than an acute or site specific response.
[20:00] Speaker 2: The idea is all all the inflammation in my entire
[20:04] Speaker 2: body is then mediated. So I wouldn't say, oh, I'm
[20:07] Speaker 2: a glute source, I'm going to inject there, right, It's irrelevant,
[20:11] Speaker 2: So I you know, inject BPC and across. I do this. Well,
[20:18] Speaker 2: here's here's the other thing. In the human studies we've
[20:20] Speaker 2: got available, No one's injecting it subcutaneously. They're all intravenous drips.
[20:27] Speaker 1: Or boluses, you mean, like into the veins.
[20:30] Speaker 2: So we don't really have a comparator. But everyone injects
[20:33] Speaker 2: at subcutaneous in terms of what's online, what's on forums,
[20:39] Speaker 2: what people are doing. So the idea is that, yeah,
[20:44] Speaker 2: I would do that for and based off the animal evidence,
[20:49] Speaker 2: we have four to six weeks.
[20:51] Speaker 1: You do it for a period of four to six
[20:53] Speaker 1: weeks period of time, like every day, every day, like
[20:56] Speaker 1: seven days a week, seven days a week. You don't
[20:58] Speaker 1: have a risk, so you do like twenty eight days
[21:00] Speaker 1: or whatever. It is only like twenty eight days, you know,
[21:04] Speaker 1: like or forty whatever it is, forty two days every
[21:09] Speaker 1: day you inject it into your gut or wherever you've
[21:11] Speaker 1: got a bit of fat. How much you inject? I mean,
[21:15] Speaker 1: how do you know how much you inject? I mean,
[21:16] Speaker 1: this is the thing, right, is there a rule of
[21:18] Speaker 1: thumb that.
[21:20] Speaker 2: There's some guidelines out online. But I mean in terms
[21:22] Speaker 2: of like again human clinical evidence, we're translating, you know,
[21:27] Speaker 2: ivy bowlus and drips to people and translating you know,
[21:32] Speaker 2: rats to people. So you hear a lot of people saying,
[21:37] Speaker 2: you know, it comes in a five milligram freeze dried powder.
[21:41] Speaker 1: It's in a power still.
[21:42] Speaker 2: Yeah, so you've got to reconstitute this. Yeah, and then
[21:45] Speaker 2: you've got to you know. I think this is where
[21:47] Speaker 2: a lot of people trip up as well. So in
[21:50] Speaker 2: Queensland we run a phone line. It's called Steroid Connect.
[21:54] Speaker 2: It's a run between the University of Queensland and our
[21:57] Speaker 2: drug use organization in Queensland, Queensland Inject Voice for Advocacy
[22:01] Speaker 2: and Action on Steroid Connect been running since twenty twenty five.
[22:04] Speaker 2: We get multiple calls a day about peptids, en handsment, drugs,
[22:08] Speaker 2: all these things. A lot of people call up because
[22:11] Speaker 2: they're struggling with the conversion from I bought BPC one
[22:15] Speaker 2: five seven. It's says it's a five milligram freeze dried powder.
[22:20] Speaker 2: I've got my water? How much water?
[22:23] Speaker 1: Where do he get is water from?
[22:24] Speaker 2: You can order it online. Sometimes needle and syringe programs
[22:29] Speaker 2: stock it as well well.
[22:31] Speaker 1: If I order them, I want to if I'm getting
[22:34] Speaker 1: getting the wrong one or getting rauded. But like someone says,
[22:37] Speaker 1: because they just give me bloody water, do they say
[22:38] Speaker 1: all this idiot's gonna I mean it's possible, right, yeah, yeah,
[22:41] Speaker 1: it's possible. Shit, Okay, so you mix it.
[22:45] Speaker 2: Up well yeah, and I mean there, you know, I
[22:47] Speaker 2: think where some people struggle is between that conversion from Okay,
[22:51] Speaker 2: I've got five milligrams, I put one million. How much
[22:57] Speaker 2: do I then have in terms of you know, milligram
[23:00] Speaker 2: to mill.
[23:01] Speaker 1: A eterninal chemist to do this serious.
[23:04] Speaker 2: There's calculators and things online, but come back to that.
[23:08] Speaker 2: And then they have their twenty seven gauge Insulince syringe
[23:15] Speaker 2: to inject and in Australia, all over the world, but
[23:19] Speaker 2: let's talk about Australia. There is a little unit markings
[23:23] Speaker 2: on these, so they go from zero to one hundred
[23:25] Speaker 2: units in international units on the needle. On the needle, yeah,
[23:31] Speaker 2: And so people got to go from milligrams to mills
[23:36] Speaker 2: so then units and then what is my dose? And
[23:40] Speaker 2: so we do a lot of work around safer injecting
[23:43] Speaker 2: but also trying to help people to ascertain what they're
[23:47] Speaker 2: going to do.
[23:48] Speaker 1: So I had to Paul haslamin here, who's a strength
[23:52] Speaker 1: coach and was previously a bodybuilt but also was an
[23:57] Speaker 1: Australian weightlifter, and he told me that the half life
[24:02] Speaker 1: they would be PC one five seven. I think it
[24:04] Speaker 1: was that when he was talking about was only like
[24:08] Speaker 1: an hour or something like that, like it's thirty minutes,
[24:10] Speaker 1: thirty minutes. Yeah, there's not much. So you inject it
[24:13] Speaker 1: and within thirty minutes has only got half the docig
[24:17] Speaker 1: and within another thirty minutes got half the half. So
[24:20] Speaker 1: it doesn't last very long. So is it quick acting?
[24:24] Speaker 1: And therefore should you do it in the beginning of
[24:26] Speaker 1: the day or when you get out of bed or
[24:28] Speaker 1: before you get a bed at night, I mean when
[24:31] Speaker 1: you or straight after training? When do you? I think
[24:35] Speaker 1: it doesn't sound very efficient, like such a short half life.
[24:39] Speaker 1: In other words, it doesn't last in your system very long.
[24:42] Speaker 1: It sounds is it inefficient or is it just a
[24:45] Speaker 1: wash really quickly?
[24:46] Speaker 2: It's so two things there. I think you're looking for
[24:48] Speaker 2: a response that you're looking to, you know, manage that
[24:51] Speaker 2: inflammatory response from your injury or from you know, whatever
[24:55] Speaker 2: it is. So half of a half we're tracking, you know. Okay,
[25:02] Speaker 2: let's say we put one hundred micrograms in in thirty minutes.
[25:05] Speaker 2: Some down to fifty in another thirty minutes. I'm down
[25:08] Speaker 2: to twenty five.
[25:10] Speaker 1: It depends on how much, but it of course.
[25:11] Speaker 2: Yeah. But at the same time, I mean, I'm doing
[25:14] Speaker 2: this every day, and I think, to come back to
[25:16] Speaker 2: your other point, it's not you know, there's optimal and
[25:20] Speaker 2: then there's what's manageable. Right, So am I going to
[25:23] Speaker 2: walk around and pin myself every thirty minutes?
[25:27] Speaker 1: You may inject yourself, Yeah, every day, So the usual
[25:31] Speaker 1: protocol is each day. Probably better do it at the
[25:35] Speaker 1: same time each day, and you run it for a
[25:38] Speaker 1: period of four to six weeks, then what happens You
[25:41] Speaker 1: stop Because is it fair to say your body can
[25:45] Speaker 1: adapt to this and it doesn't stop working after six weeks?
[25:49] Speaker 1: Or is that why the reason you just do it
[25:51] Speaker 1: is four to six weeks.
[25:52] Speaker 2: Here's the other thing these are like, none of this
[25:55] Speaker 2: is back to by human evidence or general tudinal cohorts
[26:01] Speaker 2: or anything like that.
[26:02] Speaker 1: This is so we don't know whether we're going to
[26:03] Speaker 1: grow another head in twenty years time. If we're using it.
[26:06] Speaker 2: Well, look I'll tell you that. I mean, I'm a
[26:09] Speaker 2: person who has used enhancement drugs previously. BPC one five
[26:14] Speaker 2: seven was one of them, and I haven't grown another head. Yeah,
[26:18] Speaker 2: that doesn't mean it's safe or that I'm yeah, well
[26:23] Speaker 2: i'll tell you, yeah, dear Mark, Yeah, it's happening. Yeah,
[26:28] Speaker 2: but I mean, you know, like we we don't know
[26:32] Speaker 2: is the unfortunate part. And so we've got people experimenting
[26:37] Speaker 2: and speculating. And I guess in my field of research,
[26:40] Speaker 2: I mean, I do a lot of public health research,
[26:43] Speaker 2: and I do a lot of social sciences research, and
[26:45] Speaker 2: so we call this ethno pharmacology or folk science or
[26:51] Speaker 2: folk botany, and so I mean there's something to be
[26:55] Speaker 2: said for that level of evidence. And I think lived
[26:57] Speaker 2: experience is an important component in us understanding what people
[27:01] Speaker 2: are doing and what's happening. And this has been happening
[27:04] Speaker 2: for thousands of years, if not longer. I think it's
[27:08] Speaker 2: important to recognize at the same time, we're not cutting
[27:12] Speaker 2: and measuring on the same group of people and doing
[27:16] Speaker 2: a randomized control trial, and so it is hard to
[27:19] Speaker 2: say what is safe, what is optimal, what I should do,
[27:23] Speaker 2: how I should do it. And so this four to
[27:25] Speaker 2: six weeks or this, you know, starting at two hundred
[27:28] Speaker 2: and fifty micrograms and doing that every day for that
[27:32] Speaker 2: period of time. There's not really much evidence behind it
[27:38] Speaker 2: in terms of we'll call it, you know, human trial evidence.
[27:45] Speaker 1: But as a whole of PhD as a as a
[27:49] Speaker 1: research in this area. Someone who you know has been
[27:53] Speaker 1: studying this for a long time, and also somebody who
[27:56] Speaker 1: understands you performance sportsformers for example, and or you know,
[28:01] Speaker 1: just how you build muscle, maintain muscle, help tissues and
[28:04] Speaker 1: bones and everything else going on. I mean, what is
[28:08] Speaker 1: your opinion on that. I mean, I'm not we're obviously
[28:11] Speaker 1: not giving advice to anyone, but what do you think
[28:13] Speaker 1: about it?
[28:13] Speaker 2: Like, oh, Holds promise very interested in the future, Yeah,
[28:19] Speaker 2: I think and for me, not so much in terms
[28:22] Speaker 2: of performance, in terms of our aging population. Yeah, in
[28:26] Speaker 2: terms of the fact that come twenty thirty five, I
[28:29] Speaker 2: think the world's population twenty five percent are going to
[28:34] Speaker 2: be over ticking into middle or older age.
[28:38] Speaker 1: Oh, that's going to be. There's probably the case now
[28:39] Speaker 1: here in Australia. By the way, you're definitely in Japan.
[28:43] Speaker 2: And dropping fertility rates at the same time. So for me,
[28:46] Speaker 2: I'm thinking one particular place, when you as you get older,
[28:53] Speaker 2: we have a high risk of falls. When you fall,
[28:56] Speaker 2: you fracture a hip. Mortality goes through.
[28:58] Speaker 1: The roofs stistically statistically, and it goes with like sixty
[29:04] Speaker 1: percent more sixty percent chance. Huge yep.
[29:07] Speaker 2: And so if there are particular medicines that we can
[29:12] Speaker 2: use that will assist people in a retaining bone mass,
[29:17] Speaker 2: b retaining muscle mass, or even being.
[29:20] Speaker 1: Able to put on so they don't fall.
[29:22] Speaker 2: So that they don't fall, or even recovery post falls,
[29:26] Speaker 2: people moving into these long rehabilitations that take months from
[29:33] Speaker 2: a health perspective, advantages from a social impact perspective, advantages
[29:38] Speaker 2: less time spend and rehab. From an economical perspective, huge
[29:42] Speaker 2: advantages saving the taxpayer dollars, right, so.
[29:46] Speaker 1: The government doesn't have to pay for their recovery basically.
[29:48] Speaker 2: Yet, well, if we can just run a augmented recovery
[29:53] Speaker 2: protocol of some sort, so I think there's there's promise
[29:56] Speaker 2: there and we need research investment to make good on
[29:59] Speaker 2: that and see whether this is something that we should
[30:02] Speaker 2: look into further.
[30:04] Speaker 1: The BPC one five seven is probably one of the
[30:07] Speaker 1: more talked about ones, and the GHKCU is for the
[30:14] Speaker 1: ascetic world. What are some of the more exotic ones though,
[30:20] Speaker 1: I mean, for example, are there ones maybe I just
[30:26] Speaker 1: put it into two categories. Are the ones that for example,
[30:29] Speaker 1: you use for physical muscularity and perhaps performance enhancement. I
[30:35] Speaker 1: don't mean it as a competitor. I just mean, like
[30:39] Speaker 1: some of my age be able to run better or
[30:40] Speaker 1: at least be able to run. And then on the
[30:42] Speaker 1: other side, is there any of these peptides are talking
[30:46] Speaker 1: about that might help correct things are going on in
[30:50] Speaker 1: my brain, maybe help me my energy system to be
[30:54] Speaker 1: better in my brain, like my mitochondriy in my brain
[30:56] Speaker 1: cells might be helped out by these particular peptizer. Can
[31:03] Speaker 1: we just look at those two categories and more exotic
[31:06] Speaker 1: stuff exotic things or almost imagining this?
[31:09] Speaker 2: No, I know that definitely is. It's retrue tide as
[31:13] Speaker 2: an example, So the NOO, it's called retrue trite red
[31:17] Speaker 2: a true type red a true type. So do you
[31:19] Speaker 2: have the g LP one agonist family like the semi
[31:22] Speaker 2: glue tighters, M pigs yep, and more recently we've had
[31:26] Speaker 2: the triple agonists. So it works on g LP one,
[31:31] Speaker 2: g I P and I think glucagne as well. So
[31:34] Speaker 2: these three sort of pathways in terms of controlling gastric emptying.
[31:38] Speaker 1: Is that a violent Australia or have you got to
[31:40] Speaker 1: go to America to get that or what's to deal?
[31:42] Speaker 2: So I think they just finished up their Phase three
[31:45] Speaker 2: Human in the US.
[31:47] Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the FDA.
[31:49] Speaker 2: Yeah, yep, yeah, so it's still still a while till
[31:52] Speaker 2: it's brought on market, or if it even comes to market.
[31:57] Speaker 2: I'm assuming it will.
[31:57] Speaker 1: But what are they say is going to do tim.
[32:00] Speaker 2: I mean in the phase two I mean showed promise
[32:05] Speaker 2: in terms of level of body weight loss, like we're
[32:08] Speaker 2: talking at those higher doses, I think about a fifth
[32:13] Speaker 2: of body weight in I'm going to say twenty four weeks,
[32:17] Speaker 2: so it was a forty eight week sort of monitoring situation.
[32:22] Speaker 2: And I mean the six day half life is probably
[32:26] Speaker 2: the other really attractive.
[32:28] Speaker 1: Last new system.
[32:30] Speaker 2: But all of this said, and all of this, you know,
[32:33] Speaker 2: people have been purchasing this online and using it already
[32:36] Speaker 2: for a long time. Oh really, Yeah, this is around.
[32:39] Speaker 1: For weight loss or for other other things.
[32:43] Speaker 2: It does for mostly for weight loss. I think the
[32:45] Speaker 2: other thing that I've seen that's quite interesting for GLP ones,
[32:52] Speaker 2: probably rare or included, is that for addictions, so for
[32:57] Speaker 2: managing cravings of Yeah, so I mean one of the
[33:03] Speaker 2: areas that I think people are exploring more is that
[33:08] Speaker 2: ability to and you see people talking about it for
[33:13] Speaker 2: f reed all the time, like you know, just you know,
[33:17] Speaker 2: that ability to lock out of that emotional investment into
[33:23] Speaker 2: whatever it is, whether that's a relationship.
[33:24] Speaker 1: Or food whatever.
[33:27] Speaker 2: Yeah, so that's sort of I guess, you know, napalm
[33:30] Speaker 2: effect of being able to manage a few different areas
[33:34] Speaker 2: of your life that perhaps rely on impulse control and
[33:38] Speaker 2: self regulation and so on, and so.
[33:40] Speaker 1: Yeah, impulse control, that's that. Well, that's a good one
[33:42] Speaker 1: because you know that does ruin lots of people's lives
[33:45] Speaker 1: like that and bring him to an in quite quickly,
[33:47] Speaker 1: or can bring them to an end quite quick quickly,
[33:49] Speaker 1: put them into that sort of state of mind where
[33:51] Speaker 1: their completely stuffed. There's another one. There's another peptide that
[33:56] Speaker 1: I keep hearing about. But there's two peptis keep hearing about.
[34:01] Speaker 1: One is called I don't know the stairs, but c
[34:05] Speaker 1: JC one one two morelen Oh, yeah, growth promoters versus
[34:14] Speaker 1: one called test testa morellan. So what do they do?
[34:18] Speaker 1: What are they supposed to do it? Allegedly?
[34:20] Speaker 2: Anyway, I guess let's cast all three of these as
[34:23] Speaker 2: growth hormone releasing secretogus. So the idea is growth hormone
[34:27] Speaker 2: growth hormone releasing secretogues.
[34:30] Speaker 1: So they they allegedly release growth hormone or help your
[34:34] Speaker 1: growth hormones release themselves without you having to take growth
[34:38] Speaker 1: hormone yourself.
[34:39] Speaker 2: Correct.
[34:39] Speaker 1: Yeah, which this can be damaging if you inject growth hormone,
[34:44] Speaker 1: like for example, if you're a cancer and you don't
[34:47] Speaker 1: know about it because you've got some small by We
[34:49] Speaker 1: probably all got some small cancers in the growth hormone
[34:52] Speaker 1: can actually everything makes that grow as well. So these
[34:56] Speaker 1: growth hormone would you god release secretogues secretogies.
[35:02] Speaker 2: This is why I like growth promoter, growth promoters.
[35:04] Speaker 1: Growth promoters, so they actually they get into your system
[35:07] Speaker 1: and sort of encourage your growth hormone to release. Is
[35:11] Speaker 1: that what we're talking about. So so CJC one two
[35:15] Speaker 1: nine five vip morelen and the other one is called TESTA.
[35:19] Speaker 1: So I mean some of the the injectables again.
[35:23] Speaker 2: Subcontaneous injections again and the idea is that we will
[35:28] Speaker 2: know inject them subcutaneously and then you will have a response,
[35:33] Speaker 2: so your growth hormone will go up. And what generally
[35:38] Speaker 2: happens when growth hormone goes up, is that inchulin like
[35:41] Speaker 2: growth factor one? Also IGF one also goes up.
[35:45] Speaker 1: And what does that dogf one?
[35:47] Speaker 2: So similar sort of actions in terms of I guess
[35:52] Speaker 2: the core ones is retain muscle tissue or build muscle tissue,
[35:57] Speaker 2: fat loss or the polysis order retention is one of
[36:01] Speaker 2: the other effects from gh particularly, but it's mostly those
[36:05] Speaker 2: two are in collagen synthesis anti inflammation. I mean, that's
[36:09] Speaker 2: why people who want growth hormone right, it's meant to
[36:13] Speaker 2: make you younger. Unfortunately, like we said, everything grows. You
[36:17] Speaker 2: don't get to pick what grows. But people have seen
[36:22] Speaker 2: fantastic results in terms of fat loss and muscle retention
[36:26] Speaker 2: for testamarole I know that there's work out there where
[36:31] Speaker 2: people with HIV have been given testa morole in and
[36:37] Speaker 2: it's helped them with their fatty liver, it's helped with
[36:41] Speaker 2: retaining tissue because we know having HIV or muscle wasting
[36:46] Speaker 2: conditions leads to sycopenia or muscle loss. So having options
[36:52] Speaker 2: to give people, I mean we give people with burns alexandralone,
[36:58] Speaker 2: which is a type of steroids. So I of things
[37:01] Speaker 2: adjunct therapy makes sense.
[37:03] Speaker 1: So let's say, when what about age related cyclopedia? So
[37:07] Speaker 1: like as we get older, Well, it happens at different
[37:10] Speaker 1: points for everybody, I guess, but you can get age
[37:14] Speaker 1: related psyclopedia. You mentioned our cyclopedia associated with HIVBS psyclopedias
[37:18] Speaker 1: associated with aging. So do you have to start taking
[37:20] Speaker 1: this stuff when you're twenty or do you start looking
[37:23] Speaker 1: at when you're seventy?
[37:24] Speaker 2: Well, here's the thing, right, Like, I think this is
[37:29] Speaker 2: people in the twenties are using these, but the really
[37:32] Speaker 2: exciting space for these types of we'll call them potentially,
[37:37] Speaker 2: you know, life changing therapies is more my coverport.
[37:40] Speaker 1: Yeah, that sort of makes sense to me, by the way,
[37:42] Speaker 1: probably more. I mean, these things aren't cheap apparently, so
[37:45] Speaker 1: I would think more my copboard could afford it, as
[37:48] Speaker 1: opposed to twenty year old being thrown too much money
[37:51] Speaker 1: at it. But when you get older, when you're not
[37:53] Speaker 1: producing those things more naturally, the effect is much much greater,
[38:00] Speaker 1: I would have thought.
[38:00] Speaker 2: Is that right? Well, let's take let's look at testosterone
[38:04] Speaker 2: as an example in young healthy men. We know in
[38:07] Speaker 2: Australia we measure this as testosterone in terms of animals
[38:11] Speaker 2: per liter reference ranges. You know, anywhere from about eight
[38:14] Speaker 2: to thirty eight being low. Anything below eight being you know, hyperganadism,
[38:21] Speaker 2: you need clinical intervention.
[38:23] Speaker 1: Does that include all all miles?
[38:26] Speaker 2: No, So there's people out there with up to fifty.
[38:32] Speaker 1: But when they do the collecting the data that they
[38:36] Speaker 1: will look at someone who's my age and throw that
[38:40] Speaker 1: in and they'll do my measurement. Then they go look
[38:42] Speaker 1: at some of your age, they do your measurement, and
[38:46] Speaker 1: it doesn't say eight to thirty for example, as hold
[38:49] Speaker 1: you forty thirty four thirty four? Okay, so I'll try
[38:52] Speaker 1: to guess. So let's need more peptoids. No want to,
[38:56] Speaker 1: I'm pretty good. But like, so, like someone age between
[38:59] Speaker 1: thirty and forty, is eight to thirty for your range?
[39:01] Speaker 1: Or is eight to thirty for every every male in
[39:04] Speaker 1: the data set?
[39:06] Speaker 2: Just that's sort of the general like for every male.
[39:09] Speaker 1: You'd expect a burst of my age because I know downluck, right,
[39:12] Speaker 1: So so if someone's saying, oh, Mark, you're twelve, I
[39:17] Speaker 1: shouldn't be saying, well, I should be thirty because twelve
[39:21] Speaker 1: is more likely my coort anyway.
[39:23] Speaker 2: Correct, Yeah, but I guess we you know, and when
[39:28] Speaker 2: we compare, say twelve to someone who's twenty and maybe
[39:33] Speaker 2: sitting around twenty nine to thirty. We know that we
[39:37] Speaker 2: put more testosterone in here, we'll get benefits and we'll
[39:41] Speaker 2: get an increase, but not as much as.
[39:44] Speaker 1: Give it to me.
[39:45] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[39:45] Speaker 1: So, and I guess we shouldn't mean for me anyway.
[39:49] Speaker 1: We shouldn't just sit back and accept because of your age,
[39:53] Speaker 1: your chronological age, we shouldn't just accept. Oh well, the
[39:59] Speaker 1: range is eight to twelve is ak marp because you
[40:01] Speaker 1: know you're at this age. I mean, if somehow I
[40:05] Speaker 1: could get back up to thirty without being ridiculously over
[40:10] Speaker 1: something will get up closer to the top of the range,
[40:13] Speaker 1: then why wouldn't I want to do? It's what's everyone
[40:16] Speaker 1: bugged about? What are they worried about?
[40:18] Speaker 2: I mean, I think the issue isn't twelve to twenty five.
[40:23] Speaker 1: The issue was twelve to eighty five. Okay, So people
[40:26] Speaker 1: are doing way too.
[40:27] Speaker 2: Much I think in the illicit space. So again ordering
[40:32] Speaker 2: online or of old mate at the gym.
[40:33] Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, going that's scary that you don't
[40:36] Speaker 1: know what the fuck you're getting, like I mean.
[40:38] Speaker 2: ROYD check shows markets unstable yeah yeah, first yeah, yeah,
[40:43] Speaker 2: but I think look, we got you know androgen receptor.
[40:48] Speaker 2: Obviously fantastic testosterone binds. We get all the good effects,
[40:53] Speaker 2: we get the protein decretion, we get the muscle builds,
[40:57] Speaker 2: we get good body recompositioning effects. Heap of studies to
[41:01] Speaker 2: show reaction time increases all these things excellent, sleep better,
[41:06] Speaker 2: sleep better. Unfortunately, there's a lot of other things that
[41:11] Speaker 2: happen outside of just the androen receptor. So we know
[41:14] Speaker 2: that there's a number of risks that come along with engines,
[41:17] Speaker 2: prostate being one of them, heart being the other. So
[41:20] Speaker 2: we know that left ventricular wall is subject to hypertrophy.
[41:25] Speaker 2: So when that heart wall thickens and we can pump
[41:28] Speaker 2: less blood through means we have more chance of moving
[41:31] Speaker 2: towards heart failure. So ejection fraction or the amount of
[41:35] Speaker 2: blood that we can get out, goes down, and then
[41:38] Speaker 2: over time, if that keeps thickening, then we're at risk
[41:42] Speaker 2: of a heart attack. And obviously that's the risk that
[41:46] Speaker 2: goes up as we get older as well. The risk
[41:48] Speaker 2: of prostate cancer also goes up for men. And the
[41:52] Speaker 2: other one, of course is you know, dementia, Alzheimer's, those
[41:55] Speaker 2: types of things.
[41:56] Speaker 1: But it's a bit of a balancing game. Then I guess,
[41:58] Speaker 1: because how do we balance up between what is the
[42:02] Speaker 1: optimal optimal position for somebody? You know, how do we
[42:06] Speaker 1: optimize without creating heart problems, pross the problems, brain problems.
[42:12] Speaker 1: But if we do it, if we don't do it,
[42:15] Speaker 1: how do we make sure that we don't by not
[42:18] Speaker 1: doing it? Because by not doing it is also a
[42:20] Speaker 1: decision that has consequences, and you know, people start to
[42:24] Speaker 1: waste weight potentially, or we just get older faster. What
[42:32] Speaker 1: is it? I mean, is there an ethic Is this
[42:33] Speaker 1: an ethical issue?
[42:34] Speaker 2: What is it?
[42:34] Speaker 1: I mean, you guys, you know, like in the academia
[42:38] Speaker 1: world of this stuff. What's the debate? How's it going?
[42:41] Speaker 2: I think testosterone's copped a lot of flak in Australia,
[42:46] Speaker 2: we've you know, co prescribing three times in the last
[42:49] Speaker 2: twenty years. It's but I think that's conflated with this
[42:55] Speaker 2: idea of enhancement versus you know, clinically supervised treatment. But
[43:00] Speaker 2: I think more broadly, we've got to ask ourselves. You know,
[43:03] Speaker 2: there's aging and there's mortality. Right, we know that men
[43:06] Speaker 2: and women were eighty one for men eighty five for women.
[43:10] Speaker 1: Yeah, a one point two men and.
[43:14] Speaker 2: But I guess at that tail end, what's the quality of.
[43:18] Speaker 1: The life, like do yeah, sure as seventy nine, Like, do.
[43:21] Speaker 2: You want to spend the two years in the chair? Yeah,
[43:24] Speaker 2: you spend the two years for around senior grandkids.
[43:28] Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like yeah, going on holidays and we've been
[43:30] Speaker 1: able to walk up a set of stairs to look
[43:32] Speaker 1: at something cool.
[43:33] Speaker 2: So I think that's what it's healthy aging and healthy lifestyle, right,
[43:37] Speaker 2: And it's the quality of the lifestyle. So, you know,
[43:41] Speaker 2: we take risks every day. We take a risk when
[43:43] Speaker 2: we go the road, you know, and there's and we
[43:47] Speaker 2: make a risk assessment. I think the issue is when
[43:51] Speaker 2: we don't present people with all of the evidence and
[43:54] Speaker 2: allow them also to be involved in their healthcare journey
[43:58] Speaker 2: and in their journey of healthy aging and their journey
[44:02] Speaker 2: of you know, having autonomy and self determination over these
[44:05] Speaker 2: decisions and presenting them with all of the tools or
[44:08] Speaker 2: even researching the tools that we might be able to
[44:11] Speaker 2: add to the like peptides for example, like peptides for example,
[44:15] Speaker 2: precisely you.
[44:16] Speaker 1: Know, if these things can make it live a better
[44:18] Speaker 1: longer life, peptides, hormones replacement, hormone replacements. I don't understand
[44:27] Speaker 1: why our governers don't embrace it like they're silent on that.
[44:31] Speaker 1: I mean, what a professionals like you feel like about this.
[44:34] Speaker 2: It's risks, right, Like there's there's risks, but that's why
[44:37] Speaker 2: you invest in research, doing research. But what do you
[44:42] Speaker 2: pick or where do you where do you choose your
[44:45] Speaker 2: start somewhere? And I think you're right, I think somewhere
[44:48] Speaker 2: right some Let's pick a if falls prevention is really
[44:52] Speaker 2: important for us, let's look at non surgical interventions post
[44:55] Speaker 2: fall prevention, and some of these substances might actually prime
[45:01] Speaker 2: candidates for that. Testosterone might be a prime candidate as well,
[45:05] Speaker 2: I mean for healthy aging in terms of reducing cycopenia,
[45:10] Speaker 2: particularly for men. But also we know for women during menopause,
[45:14] Speaker 2: we know that. I mean, we just finished up a
[45:17] Speaker 2: scoping review. It's currently under review at the moment, but
[45:21] Speaker 2: any woman of all the studies that we looked at,
[45:24] Speaker 2: anywhere where there was testosterone in the hormone replacement, we're
[45:28] Speaker 2: talking low dose obviously, like one to three milligrams for
[45:33] Speaker 2: a woman, they had outstanding physical and psychosocial benefits compared
[45:40] Speaker 2: to religi just using estrogen or estron progesterone related HRT.
[45:45] Speaker 2: So testosterone does have benefits when clinical dosage guidelines are followed,
[45:51] Speaker 2: when there's medical supervision, and when it's done you know,
[45:54] Speaker 2: within a pharmaceutically regulated environment, so we're not getting metals
[45:59] Speaker 2: back interior. You know, variable dosing, different compound presents things
[46:04] Speaker 2: like that.
[46:04] Speaker 1: Because I think tim the way the world is today,
[46:08] Speaker 1: maybe not before, we're much more compliant of twenty thirty
[46:12] Speaker 1: years ago, but today people want to take will take
[46:17] Speaker 1: control of themselves. If they think that they're hearing about
[46:19] Speaker 1: something that's going in the United States or somewhere else
[46:22] Speaker 1: and it's not happening here because the government hasn't bothered
[46:25] Speaker 1: to do anything about it or does want to do
[46:27] Speaker 1: anyth about it because they're too scared or whatever, people
[46:29] Speaker 1: will work out ways of getting it the internet, like
[46:32] Speaker 1: straight up, and they'll someone will tell someone and someone
[46:34] Speaker 1: will tell someone else the next thing, you know, they
[46:36] Speaker 1: do run the risk the government if they don't do
[46:38] Speaker 1: anything about it. People taking it in control of their
[46:40] Speaker 1: own hands, and they'll then all of a sudden people
[46:42] Speaker 1: start taking risk with it and they'll be bringing contaminantcy
[46:45] Speaker 1: in and all that other thing, and instead of just
[46:47] Speaker 1: banning it completely, it's a bit like you know, like, yeah, prohibition,
[46:54] Speaker 1: how do it work for us?
[46:55] Speaker 2: For heroin math, Well, it was.
[46:57] Speaker 1: Like cigarettes at the moment.
[46:59] Speaker 2: Listen tobacco.
[47:00] Speaker 1: Yeah, there's more. We're smoking more now than we were
[47:02] Speaker 1: ten years ago when you were adding in the cigarettes
[47:06] Speaker 1: that have been brought illegally, and so that shit doesn't work.
[47:11] Speaker 1: So if you know, it's one step beyond prohibition, like
[47:15] Speaker 1: they're just not doing anything about it, but government should
[47:18] Speaker 1: be doing something about this and in order to show
[47:22] Speaker 1: us what we could take that's rational and reasonable, both
[47:26] Speaker 1: in the peptides territory, because you know, we have to
[47:28] Speaker 1: give up with trends. I mean, I hate saying that,
[47:31] Speaker 1: but we do have to keep up trends. Like if
[47:33] Speaker 1: you go to America, I know, if you're in Los Angeles, California,
[47:36] Speaker 1: they actually have pepti parties.
[47:38] Speaker 2: Yep.
[47:39] Speaker 1: People go to peptide parties. People go to pepti parties,
[47:42] Speaker 1: they go to saunter parties, they go to ice bos parties.
[47:45] Speaker 1: They're not outguing to the pub and drinking you know,
[47:48] Speaker 1: ten schooners. They're doing things that actually these are younger
[47:52] Speaker 1: people they're doing it to. They also go to meditation
[47:56] Speaker 1: parties and things like, they're doing things that are good
[47:58] Speaker 1: for them, what they perceived is good from and it's
[48:02] Speaker 1: not illegal because things are much more basically available over
[48:05] Speaker 1: there than they are here. And you know, you and
[48:08] Speaker 1: I talked about c JC at Perrero. We talked about ASREL,
[48:11] Speaker 1: and we talked about BBC, we talked about JESKCU, and
[48:14] Speaker 1: there's a whole there's a litany of these things.
[48:16] Speaker 2: But I've there.
[48:17] Speaker 1: They got fifty more and let alone those ones, and
[48:24] Speaker 1: you know there's there's another one. I did want to
[48:27] Speaker 1: just check with you before we close off the two more.
[48:30] Speaker 1: They want to check with you. It's called thimosin oh
[48:35] Speaker 1: TB five hundred, and there's no one called Mott's c
[48:38] Speaker 1: oh what are these things are supposed to be doing?
[48:42] Speaker 2: So thymosin BEATA four TB five hundred.
[48:45] Speaker 1: Here's a A and I thymosin beta.
[48:49] Speaker 2: I mean, it's interesting because I guess in the literature
[48:53] Speaker 2: what we see is not much evidence. We see some
[48:59] Speaker 2: studies regarding picking it up in antidoping contexts, So whether
[49:04] Speaker 2: we can detect it in people in urine.
[49:07] Speaker 1: Or blood hair, you mean it like in athletes.
[49:10] Speaker 2: In athletes we see some you know, conceptual sort of
[49:15] Speaker 2: pieces around. Maybe it will help reduce inflammation.
[49:21] Speaker 1: It's about that, It's about information.
[49:24] Speaker 2: So I think people normally pair it with BPC one
[49:27] Speaker 2: five seven with the intention that they will reduce inflammation,
[49:31] Speaker 2: increase recoveries. They train harder and faster and what have
[49:35] Speaker 2: you or from injury. Yeah, you get non surgical intervention
[49:39] Speaker 2: for whatever it is. The idea is, I think cell
[49:42] Speaker 2: growth and angiogenesis, increasing vascularity. So I guess you get
[49:48] Speaker 2: more blood flow, which means more nutrients, which means you know,
[49:51] Speaker 2: better hydration, plus you know whatever else you need to
[49:55] Speaker 2: attenuate inflammation. So I mean those three things together apparently
[50:02] Speaker 2: the wolverine stack and so the wolverine stack, so apparently
[50:08] Speaker 2: they're meant to fix us if we have a busted
[50:11] Speaker 2: knee or you know, shoulder injury, elbow, whatever. And what's
[50:16] Speaker 2: that mots C one is that for immune system mitochondrial peptide.
[50:21] Speaker 2: So the idea I've also got motstans from mitochondrial something
[50:25] Speaker 2: rather no, there is a whole name there that escapes me.
[50:28] Speaker 1: But they use it for mitochondrial repair, I believe.
[50:31] Speaker 2: So, so the idea is increases our capacity for exercise right.
[50:37] Speaker 1: So, because mitochondrial being the energy system in ourselves, So
[50:42] Speaker 1: like if we can make that better or improve it
[50:44] Speaker 1: or enhance it or repair it, then we should be
[50:47] Speaker 1: able to get more energy to train properly or end
[50:50] Speaker 1: or perform. That's the idea of it.
[50:53] Speaker 2: That's the idea. Yeah.
[50:54] Speaker 1: And are there any people around that you know of
[50:58] Speaker 1: that you have seen or on these let's call them stacks,
[51:01] Speaker 1: let's call it the what did you call it the
[51:04] Speaker 1: wolverine stack that you just observationally say, my god, this
[51:10] Speaker 1: is working. Have you seen that?
[51:12] Speaker 2: Oh? Of course we have people calling the line all
[51:14] Speaker 2: the time and saying, you know, so many positive things
[51:17] Speaker 2: people online, so many positive stories.
[51:20] Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, you can't test it, of course, but
[51:23] Speaker 1: do you think is it Could it be in their
[51:25] Speaker 1: mind though, like a placebo effect or another style of effect,
[51:29] Speaker 1: like a psychological outcome. I guess if that works, it works.
[51:35] Speaker 2: Still giving the effect. Yeah, so who cares? But I
[51:38] Speaker 2: mean there's probably a bit of that, And then there's
[51:40] Speaker 2: probably you know, something happening there if they're feeling better
[51:46] Speaker 2: or saying that there's less subjective pain in their knee
[51:51] Speaker 2: or elbow or shoulder or whatever else, or they're seeing
[51:55] Speaker 2: fat loss at an increased rate. Of course, they could
[51:58] Speaker 2: just inject CJC one sevens one two nine five and
[52:02] Speaker 2: then suddenly start going to the gym six times a
[52:05] Speaker 2: week instead of the three times that they were going.
[52:07] Speaker 1: Yeah, and they will change.
[52:09] Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, like it could you know, And again this
[52:12] Speaker 2: is why it's controlled research environment.
[52:14] Speaker 1: It's not probably controlled as a as an outcome. See,
[52:18] Speaker 1: what you'd have to get is that person not going
[52:21] Speaker 1: to gym more and more than one of them. You'd
[52:24] Speaker 1: have to have a number of those persons. So I'm
[52:25] Speaker 1: not going to gym anymore, not eating better, eating the
[52:28] Speaker 1: same and then but the only difference would be the
[52:30] Speaker 1: injection of the CJC, and that hasn't been done. But
[52:34] Speaker 1: about in America, they're doing this stuff in America.
[52:36] Speaker 2: Nothing that I've seen like out in the literature yet.
[52:40] Speaker 2: But as we know that policy, environment's changing with what
[52:44] Speaker 2: RFK Junior is doing. So, I mean and potentially you know,
[52:49] Speaker 2: post enhanced games, now you know that environment could rapidly
[52:53] Speaker 2: change and we could see a real you know, I
[52:56] Speaker 2: guess we'll call it the renaissance of pepzide research in humans, right,
[53:01] Speaker 2: and that could lead us also here to start looking
[53:05] Speaker 2: more closely.
[53:06] Speaker 1: Because I had James Magnuson on the show, and a
[53:09] Speaker 1: lot of people bag me for having him in here
[53:10] Speaker 1: because he was participating in the Enhanced Games where he
[53:13] Speaker 1: was using testosterone and other things. And of course no
[53:16] Speaker 1: one broke a world record. The world record was actually
[53:20] Speaker 1: broken by another Australian for the fifty meters who's was
[53:24] Speaker 1: not the Enhanced Games. But the point being why James
[53:28] Speaker 1: made me why he was happy to go to that
[53:30] Speaker 1: was because point which is precisely the point you're making,
[53:35] Speaker 1: does it actually is this the start of a new
[53:39] Speaker 1: health regime for the globe, you know, and we've got
[53:43] Speaker 1: to try and we've got to discover what these things do.
[53:47] Speaker 1: And like James might have been doing something dangerous for him,
[53:49] Speaker 1: but he was happy, sorry, he was happy enough to
[53:52] Speaker 1: take the risk to see whether or not and he
[53:55] Speaker 1: had an incentive enough, there was enough reward and there
[53:57] Speaker 1: was a million bucks if he could be the world record,
[54:00] Speaker 1: not just him but in all the various events, and
[54:04] Speaker 1: so there's enough incentive for them to do it financially
[54:08] Speaker 1: short term. But also his view was, but if we
[54:12] Speaker 1: don't do these things, we'll never know where we can
[54:14] Speaker 1: make people's lives better generally.
[54:17] Speaker 2: Do we want to innovate and be in the blue zone?
[54:21] Speaker 2: Do we want to just keep doing the same thing
[54:24] Speaker 2: that we've been doing and follow and follow others.
[54:27] Speaker 1: You're right, innovation and it doesn't mean all of a
[54:29] Speaker 1: sudden you let everyone Australia start doing this stuff. I
[54:31] Speaker 1: mean it's all controlled and managed, as you said, properly
[54:37] Speaker 1: controlled and studied and then and researched, and then papers
[54:44] Speaker 1: are written and reviewed and then published, and Australia could
[54:48] Speaker 1: become one of the most innovative nations of the world
[54:50] Speaker 1: when it comes to human health. I think our greatest
[54:54] Speaker 1: in this country, our greatest opportunity apart from the fact
[54:59] Speaker 1: that we the most resources in the world, but our
[55:01] Speaker 1: greatest opportunity outside of that and outside of education, is health.
[55:09] Speaker 1: We're not going to be a manufacturer. We're not going
[55:11] Speaker 1: to have manufactured China or other places of career, et cetera.
[55:13] Speaker 1: And we don't have a big population, so just by definition,
[55:16] Speaker 1: we can't have a greater deal of impact on the world.
[55:19] Speaker 1: We're not going to be the greatest defense country in
[55:21] Speaker 1: the world. Like you know, our defense budget's hopeless and
[55:24] Speaker 1: generally speaking, you know, we don't have that when it
[55:26] Speaker 1: all comes from America. We're not going to become the
[55:28] Speaker 1: greatest technologists in the world because technologists tend to go
[55:31] Speaker 1: back up in America where the money is because they
[55:33] Speaker 1: need money to raise. But what we could become and
[55:36] Speaker 1: your sweet spot is the healthiest nation in the world,
[55:40] Speaker 1: a place where you come to where innovation around health
[55:46] Speaker 1: is first class. Do you think about this or do
[55:49] Speaker 1: you sort of just more you're more in the science.
[55:50] Speaker 1: Do you think about the broader issue that Australia could become.
[55:54] Speaker 2: No. I think that health impact piece and that social
[55:57] Speaker 2: impact piece is important. I think here's the here's the
[56:00] Speaker 2: issue of the conflation. At the moment, you've got a
[56:06] Speaker 2: huge illicit market with we'll call them potentially good or
[56:11] Speaker 2: bad actors or a mix who are financially motivated, and
[56:15] Speaker 2: we've got a huge booming private industry. If we want
[56:19] Speaker 2: what you're talking about, Mark, then we need public health
[56:23] Speaker 2: and health policy to move forward and be reflective of
[56:27] Speaker 2: what's actually happening instead of I guess, making blanket statements
[56:33] Speaker 2: or or ignoring what's actually happening, and so have that
[56:37] Speaker 2: investment from public health right rather than because if you
[56:41] Speaker 2: leave it to private industry like we have the influencer
[56:45] Speaker 2: economy at the moment online. Then we're missing out on
[56:50] Speaker 2: innovating research or missing out on making real world translational
[56:57] Speaker 2: health policies that look after our people, help them age better,
[57:02] Speaker 2: feel better, decrease burden of disease, all of these things.
[57:07] Speaker 2: And instead private industry keeps growing, money keeps getting taken
[57:11] Speaker 2: out as well through these global markets. People get hurt
[57:15] Speaker 2: through products that aren't regulated. If we don't meet this,
[57:18] Speaker 2: and we don't meet this head on soon, then this
[57:22] Speaker 2: is just going to keep growing. And unfortunately our public
[57:25] Speaker 2: system is going to keep falling behind, and we'll never
[57:28] Speaker 2: end up in the blue zone and will never end
[57:29] Speaker 2: up living longer and feeling better. And I guess things
[57:34] Speaker 2: will just keep on keeping on.
[57:37] Speaker 1: This could be a one in lifetime opportunity for Australia,
[57:41] Speaker 1: once in a lifetime. My gut feeling is we need
[57:44] Speaker 1: on OURFK. We need a Robert Kennedy too in politics
[57:50] Speaker 1: to stand for this and to promote it and to
[57:52] Speaker 1: push it, and also to eliminate all the crap out
[57:55] Speaker 1: of our system too, you know, the seed oils and
[57:58] Speaker 1: all those other things we shouldn't be using. We need
[58:01] Speaker 1: someone who's a protagonist. We don't have one in government
[58:07] Speaker 1: in this country. I've never seen anybody actually stand up
[58:10] Speaker 1: for this sort of stuff, So that's probably a good
[58:12] Speaker 1: way to end off this. Because this scary word called peptizer.
[58:16] Speaker 1: By the way, the words peptized, don't even know what
[58:18] Speaker 1: the fuck it means, like, it's like I don't know
[58:20] Speaker 1: who came up with a name. It's like you try
[58:24] Speaker 1: to work out what it means. You don't know, right,
[58:26] Speaker 1: and then they go, you know, but then it gets
[58:28] Speaker 1: technical and it's easier to scare the hell out of
[58:31] Speaker 1: everybody with that stuff. Because if I don't know it,
[58:34] Speaker 1: I'm I won't do it. What if we call it
[58:36] Speaker 1: a medicine, this much makes a much big difference, much
[58:39] Speaker 1: bigger difference to how I would approach it if it
[58:42] Speaker 1: was Because if a doctor says, Mark, you take this
[58:44] Speaker 1: is your prescription, here's your medicine, I just do it.
[58:47] Speaker 1: I'll do what the doctor says. I go to the pharmacy,
[58:49] Speaker 1: and the pharmacy to give it you. I think it's okay.
[58:51] Speaker 1: Because the government's evolved. It's weird how I trust the government.
[58:55] Speaker 1: I used to, I don't anymore. Now I thinking to myself,
[59:01] Speaker 1: do I need to take control of this myself because
[59:05] Speaker 1: government's going to let me down? And actually, people become
[59:08] Speaker 1: a lot more jaundiced about government today than they ever
[59:11] Speaker 1: have been in the past. You know, government's a divisive
[59:16] Speaker 1: there's nothing that they're doing together. That's all the parties
[59:20] Speaker 1: that is actually there for my good and generally speaking,
[59:23] Speaker 1: I think everyone feels that way.
[59:25] Speaker 2: No, we see it pushing people into unregulated illissa markets.
[59:30] Speaker 1: And that's negligent from my point of view. Government's allowing
[59:35] Speaker 1: that to happen.
[59:36] Speaker 2: Well, what are we We're halfway through twenty twenty six.
[59:39] Speaker 2: Where's our national response around peptids? Yeah?
[59:44] Speaker 1: Nothing, not a word. Thanks for much to him.
[59:47] Speaker 2: That was great.
[59:47] Speaker 1: I really enjoyed it.

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