# Simon Hill’s Longevity Guide: Smarter Training, Stronger Relationships & avoiding the online BS

An episode of [Project 100 with Mark Bouris](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1767053714), 9 Mar 2025, 1 h 34 min.

Audio: https://p.podderapp.com/2544644999/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/2fb3740d-3436-44af-8cc0-a91900716aa5/05ac4e52-79fb-46b8-849c-b305000bd6d0/345c8436-1695-4b14-a79a-b305000c22bb/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=ef13e652-7a19-41fd-9d0f-b305000bd6dc

All content and media by Project 100 is created and published online for informational purposes only. It is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice and should not be relied on as health or personal advice. **** Simon Hill is a physiotherapist, nutrition scientist, and host of the widely acclaimed The Proof podcast and blog, originally driven by a passion for athletic performance physiology before shifting his focus to nutrition’s role in disease prevention and health optimisation after his father’s heart attack. With a Master of Science in Human Nutrition from Deakin University and a mission to counter misleading wellness trends, he engages millions of followers on social media and has launched ventures like the Living Proof Challenge. Simon Hill breaks down how to sift through online health advice, cutting through misinformation and focusing on what actually works for longevity. We get into supplements, resistance training, protein quality, and how to adapt exercise as you age. We also dive into how relationships and stress management play a crucial role in long-term health. If you want to train smarter, live longer, and avoid the BS, this episode is for you. Ready to take your sleep and recovery to the next level? Head over to www.eightsleep.com/project100/ and use the code PROJECT100 to get $350 off your very own Pod 4 Ultra. Trust me, your body will thank you for this investment in better sleep. Shipping to many countries worldwide. See details at eightsleep.com/project100/ Follow Project 100 on Instagram. Follow Mark Bouris on Instagram, LinkedIn, Twitter & YouTube. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:00] Speaker 1: Today guys is Mark Boris here. If you're a regular listener,
[0:03] Speaker 1: you know I'm always looking for ways to optimize my
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[0:59] Speaker 1: one hundred that's Project one zero zero to get three
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[1:08] Speaker 1: take your sleep game to the next level. Simon Hill,
[1:12] Speaker 1: Welcome to Project one hundred.
[1:13] Speaker 2: Mate, Mark, thank you so much.
[1:15] Speaker 1: Good to see again.
[1:16] Speaker 2: Great to be back here.
[1:17] Speaker 1: Yeah, it's great. I mean you have been on straight
[1:19] Speaker 1: Talk and we've discussed a lot of things, well more
[1:22] Speaker 1: about what you were doing it in the proof that's
[1:24] Speaker 1: your podcast and all the stuff you put out on
[1:27] Speaker 1: your various reels, et cetera, which is great stuff. I follow,
[1:29] Speaker 1: I follow it, so anybody listening you should follow this dude.
[1:32] Speaker 1: He knows what he's talking about. It's researched. Maybe he
[1:36] Speaker 1: doesn't know where he does know, who knows what? Anyone
[1:38] Speaker 1: knows what they're talking about, but it's researched at least,
[1:41] Speaker 1: and it has backing, scientific backing, which is going to
[1:44] Speaker 1: be one of the points we want to talk about today.
[1:46] Speaker 1: But before we go on, there's no point in me
[1:49] Speaker 1: talking about your ability to do research as a as
[1:55] Speaker 1: a person involved in the science of biology, our biology.
[2:00] Speaker 1: Can you just quickly tell me what your academic qualifications?
[2:04] Speaker 1: That probably is the best way to start.
[2:06] Speaker 2: So my first undergraduate degree was a Bachelor of Physiotherapy,
[2:11] Speaker 2: which means what essentially studying anatomy buy mechanics, how the
[2:19] Speaker 2: body moves, what happens during injuries, how we rehabilitate someone.
[2:24] Speaker 2: My specific focus was on shoulder rehabilitation, and I was
[2:28] Speaker 2: working at Parans Sports Medicine Center, which is like a
[2:31] Speaker 2: private practice down in Melbourne. And then outside of clinic hours,
[2:35] Speaker 2: I would work with a Richmond football club and Cobourg
[2:37] Speaker 2: Football Club. They're kind of VFL feeder team and so
[2:41] Speaker 2: I was a junior physio there. I'd be helping players
[2:45] Speaker 2: manage injuries, build strength, build range of motion and get
[2:50] Speaker 2: back to being able to perform out of a high level.
[2:53] Speaker 1: That's quite interesting because most people probably don't realize how
[2:56] Speaker 1: physios fit into the sporting scene. I'm lucky enough to
[3:00] Speaker 1: have had some exposure to that in terms of rugby league.
[3:03] Speaker 1: But it's two parts. I mean, maybe you were junior
[3:07] Speaker 1: at the time, young guy, but at the game and
[3:11] Speaker 1: our training, the physio sort of diagnoses injuries. So if
[3:16] Speaker 1: you know what I mean, like something happens is you
[3:18] Speaker 1: got source shoulder, and the physia government sort of move
[3:21] Speaker 1: things around, sort of get a bit of a sense
[3:23] Speaker 1: of what's going on and work out whether the person
[3:25] Speaker 1: getting continue on or whether the persons you're going to
[3:27] Speaker 1: see the dock or go off and get an MRI,
[3:30] Speaker 1: whatever the case may be. But also the really important
[3:32] Speaker 1: in the rehab part of things. The rehab includes not
[3:35] Speaker 1: just you know, it depends on whether it's concussion or
[3:38] Speaker 1: physical injury. I guess concussion is a physical injury. But
[3:42] Speaker 1: the rehab process is not just about not just about
[3:47] Speaker 1: maybe manipulation et cetera, which is what most people know
[3:50] Speaker 1: physias well, but it's also about the whole packaging rehabilitation food.
[3:55] Speaker 1: You know, do I do it is sauna goal for me?
[3:58] Speaker 1: You should have put play ice to it.
[4:00] Speaker 2: There's a whole series of stuff, is that correct, right?
[4:02] Speaker 2: And there's acute injuries, then there's also chronic injuries.
[4:06] Speaker 1: What's the difference between the two.
[4:08] Speaker 2: Acute is something on field happens and someone tears a
[4:11] Speaker 2: ham shrink and then you assess that, you work out,
[4:15] Speaker 2: you determine the grade of that hamstring strain, and then
[4:18] Speaker 2: you treat that hamstring to get them back to be
[4:20] Speaker 2: able to play. But you're also going to look at
[4:22] Speaker 2: that person from a diagnostic point of view to try
[4:25] Speaker 2: and determine why did they tear that hamstring? Were they
[4:28] Speaker 2: not strong enough? Is it biomechanics related? The way that
[4:31] Speaker 2: they're running, and so you try and rebuild that person
[4:35] Speaker 2: so that doesn't happen. Again, let's take something that's less
[4:39] Speaker 2: acute than that. Maybe someone has a stress fracture in
[4:42] Speaker 2: their foot. Same thing, like, why has this person developed
[4:45] Speaker 2: a stress fracture where they just overloaded and their training
[4:48] Speaker 2: load was too high? Were they not strong enough? Is
[4:51] Speaker 2: their foot positioning not right when they're running? So you're
[4:55] Speaker 2: really trying to analyze that the person kind of very holistically.
[4:59] Speaker 1: What about nutritions then, and then nutrition?
[5:02] Speaker 2: Typically in like a football club environment, you would be
[5:06] Speaker 2: working in a teams we have a sports medicine doc,
[5:09] Speaker 2: you have a physio, and then you have dietitians nutritionists,
[5:12] Speaker 2: and as a physiotherapist, the extent to which you kind
[5:17] Speaker 2: of provide dietary advice is relatively limited. Obviously, you're a
[5:22] Speaker 2: cross research around like the healing of connective tissue and muscle,
[5:27] Speaker 2: so you might have some input into high level things
[5:30] Speaker 2: like protein and making sure you're getting enough of that
[5:33] Speaker 2: through the day, but the specifics are handled by the dietitian.
[5:36] Speaker 2: And I would say as a physio, particularly in the
[5:40] Speaker 2: football club environment, that was like a big limitation for
[5:44] Speaker 2: me in a blind spot, and it's kind of what
[5:47] Speaker 2: then motivated me to go back and do my masters
[5:49] Speaker 2: in nutrition science so that I could kind of provide
[5:52] Speaker 2: a bit more well rounded advice to people.
[5:56] Speaker 1: And what is nutrition science? So it's because we did
[5:59] Speaker 1: have Jordan Sullivan on who has a masters and diet
[6:03] Speaker 1: dietetics dietetics which hard would to say, dietetics. You've probably
[6:07] Speaker 1: diagnosed me in marks probably had too many concussions, but
[6:09] Speaker 1: because I can't say the word probably, But what's the
[6:11] Speaker 1: difference between dietetics and nutritional science.
[6:15] Speaker 2: It's a mouthful that word. I often get it wrong
[6:17] Speaker 2: as well, so you know, I feel better. I mean,
[6:23] Speaker 2: these are similar. Depending on the master's degree that you do,
[6:26] Speaker 2: it may have more of a clinical focus, a clinical
[6:28] Speaker 2: kind of dietetics versus a research focus. What about you
[6:32] Speaker 2: more on the nutrition science the research side of things,
[6:36] Speaker 2: And that's that's looking at how you use science as
[6:40] Speaker 2: a methodology to determine what does what's the best type
[6:46] Speaker 2: of nutrition for various goals, whether it's for sports performance
[6:50] Speaker 2: or whether it's for longevity. And so in that type
[6:54] Speaker 2: of education, you're learning about different study designs, You're learning
[6:58] Speaker 2: about how you use everything from self culture studies to
[7:02] Speaker 2: animal studies to population studies, and there are a broad
[7:08] Speaker 2: range of different types of population studies looking at people
[7:11] Speaker 2: living in the real world and randomize controlled clinical trials.
[7:15] Speaker 2: So you're taught about all of those study designs, the strengths,
[7:19] Speaker 2: the limitations, how they kind of answer different questions, and
[7:23] Speaker 2: then how they work together to form the totality of evidence,
[7:28] Speaker 2: so you can look at a big picture rather than yeah,
[7:31] Speaker 2: rather than a single study and say I'm not certain,
[7:35] Speaker 2: because science is not about having a deep conviction and
[7:39] Speaker 2: absolute and being certain. But what you're trying to do
[7:41] Speaker 2: with all of these different types of studies, which are
[7:44] Speaker 2: all helpful in their own way, you're trying to reduce uncertainty, right,
[7:49] Speaker 2: And that's what public health recommendations are nutrition. They're not definitive,
[7:53] Speaker 2: but where we're using the scientific method to help get
[8:00] Speaker 2: us past the blind spots that we have as individuals.
[8:02] Speaker 2: The reason we can't rely on anecdotes is because there's
[8:04] Speaker 2: so much bias and so many blind spots. We need
[8:07] Speaker 2: a method to be able to reduce that bias, reduce
[8:10] Speaker 2: those blind spots, and move closer to a truth without
[8:15] Speaker 2: ever getting to quote unquote the truth.
[8:18] Speaker 1: Okay, this is important, and hopefully I don't boil all
[8:21] Speaker 1: our listeners too much by this, but I think this
[8:23] Speaker 1: is just important. We just need to sit on this
[8:26] Speaker 1: form a moment or two in the context of what
[8:29] Speaker 1: you're not going to talk about, and actually in the
[8:31] Speaker 1: context of health generally or optimization of health relative to
[8:35] Speaker 1: even longevity. It's important because I can borrow from what
[8:40] Speaker 1: you said a little bit. In terms of finance and economics,
[8:44] Speaker 1: we are always trying to build a probability set, in
[8:47] Speaker 1: other words, a statistical probability based on the evidence, to
[8:54] Speaker 1: give us a certain confidence level that what our conclusion
[8:58] Speaker 1: is may not be right or wrong, just it gives a
[9:00] Speaker 1: confidence level that it is closer to being right than
[9:03] Speaker 1: it is being wrong, which is no I guess what
[9:06] Speaker 1: you're saying is no different in what scientists do.
[9:10] Speaker 2: Right and the I think the issue, at least in
[9:13] Speaker 2: the online space is when you when you use language
[9:19] Speaker 2: that's not absolute and has a degree of kind of humility,
[9:23] Speaker 2: you know, talking but like you just did, then we're
[9:25] Speaker 2: talking about confidence. We don't know full certain online that
[9:29] Speaker 2: can often be conflated as a lack of confidence, a
[9:33] Speaker 2: lack you're not this person's not the expert on this
[9:36] Speaker 2: subject matter because they don't know.
[9:38] Speaker 1: So if someone's been expert on subject matter, what do
[9:41] Speaker 1: they do well?
[9:42] Speaker 2: What we see, I think there's this conflation where you
[9:45] Speaker 2: see the person come online and have this sensational view,
[9:48] Speaker 2: very deepconviction, strongly spoken wrong, and it seems like, oh wow,
[9:51] Speaker 2: that person has really grasped this area of science. But
[9:55] Speaker 2: for me, that's a bit of a red flag. I'd
[9:57] Speaker 2: rather see someone talk with a little bit more new
[10:00] Speaker 2: It's a little bit more humility and uncertainty, and at
[10:03] Speaker 2: least from a science perspective, when I see that, I think, Okay,
[10:07] Speaker 2: this person is being more objective and is more likely
[10:14] Speaker 2: to be providing accurate, reliable information responsibly.
[10:19] Speaker 1: That's as a scientist, but most of us aren't, and
[10:23] Speaker 1: most of the audience probably the most significant part of
[10:29] Speaker 1: the ordits I'm not the punters like me, interested but
[10:34] Speaker 1: not prepared to go and read the abstract or in fact,
[10:37] Speaker 1: even if I do, or just read the publication. But
[10:40] Speaker 1: even if I do read the publication, I don't know
[10:43] Speaker 1: the methodology. I don't understand any quirks in the methodology
[10:48] Speaker 1: or any criticism perhaps around the methodology. Therefore I won't
[10:51] Speaker 1: read it. Therefore, what I'm going to be swayed by
[10:54] Speaker 1: is the opinion of the individual. And what it sways
[10:56] Speaker 1: me in terms of the opinion of the individual is
[10:58] Speaker 1: the person's status, the size of the audience. Perhaps I'll
[11:03] Speaker 1: look behind and see what their qualifications are, and then
[11:08] Speaker 1: really it comes down to their performance. How do they
[11:10] Speaker 1: deliver it to me? And as a result of that,
[11:15] Speaker 1: I can be convinced very easily, specially with social media,
[11:19] Speaker 1: that wow, this is something I should be trying, and
[11:22] Speaker 1: I just want to touch on Let's touch on a
[11:24] Speaker 1: couple of them. Because one of the reasons I wanted
[11:29] Speaker 1: you to come on the show is because you are
[11:31] Speaker 1: a person who makes your commentary based on science. Because
[11:36] Speaker 1: you have learnt the scientific way in master's degrees and
[11:40] Speaker 1: undergraduate degrees, you understand it. Therefore, you're not prepared to
[11:44] Speaker 1: make outrageous statements about stuff. Let's just pick a product
[11:50] Speaker 1: for example. Now, what's that stuff called methylene blue? I
[11:54] Speaker 1: know I must have looked it up somewhere. I probably
[11:56] Speaker 1: heard it somewhere, And of course, you know the algorithm
[12:00] Speaker 1: worked out that I've may be interested in, so it
[12:02] Speaker 1: keeps testing me. It keeps hitting me up with this stuff,
[12:04] Speaker 1: and then I thought, well, maybe we should buy it.
[12:06] Speaker 1: And then I did. I actually buy some online. When
[12:09] Speaker 1: I got and I got a bit nervous because I thought, Hey,
[12:11] Speaker 1: I don't know where it came is from this who
[12:13] Speaker 1: makes it? I don't know anything about the providence of
[12:16] Speaker 1: this particular product, irrespective of what it's supposed to do.
[12:19] Speaker 1: I don't know about the providence. So I actually threw
[12:21] Speaker 1: it out. Waste of money, waste of time, waste effort, effort.
[12:26] Speaker 1: Maybe give us a bit of a commentary on what
[12:29] Speaker 1: are the first and foremost what are they saying about
[12:31] Speaker 1: methline blue? What's the general consensus about it?
[12:33] Speaker 2: I mean online the claims. I will say, this is
[12:36] Speaker 2: not a topic that I have a deep dived thoroughly
[12:40] Speaker 2: to give you a very thorough answer as to should
[12:43] Speaker 2: someone supplement with methylene blue.
[12:45] Speaker 1: So it is a supplement I have.
[12:48] Speaker 2: I have a view on this. It's higher level without
[12:51] Speaker 2: having looked deeply. And I'll say, for example, if you
[12:53] Speaker 2: came to me and people often message me in my
[12:56] Speaker 2: box and say what do you think about this? And
[12:57] Speaker 2: some obscure outside of the boxing, honestly, it probably would
[13:01] Speaker 2: take me a month to get through the literature properly
[13:05] Speaker 2: to give you an answer.
[13:06] Speaker 1: Well, that's interesting someone, because I wonder whether these people
[13:09] Speaker 1: who are promoting it that you are trying to sell
[13:10] Speaker 1: it to me, have actually even looked at the literature
[13:12] Speaker 1: otherwis done a proper literature review.
[13:15] Speaker 2: Probably not. And going back to earlier, you said, you know,
[13:21] Speaker 2: we're not all scientists, so it's difficult to kind of
[13:25] Speaker 2: know if someone's providing good information or not. I agree
[13:29] Speaker 2: that not everyone's a scientist, and when we don't expect
[13:32] Speaker 2: everyone to have the skills to get into the literature.
[13:35] Speaker 2: But I do think you can look at the way
[13:38] Speaker 2: someone's communicating and quickly, relatively quickly, at least over a
[13:43] Speaker 2: matter of weeks, determine if this person is objectively reviewing
[13:48] Speaker 2: the evidence and so using methylene blue for example, it's
[13:53] Speaker 2: a supplement, right, it's a supplement. It's a synthetic. My
[13:57] Speaker 2: understanding is in the nineteen sixties it was produce synthetically
[14:01] Speaker 2: as a textile dye to dye textile is blue, right,
[14:06] Speaker 2: and so it's synthetic. Now, just because something synthetic does
[14:09] Speaker 2: not mean it's bad, right, But there is an idea
[14:11] Speaker 2: out there that anything that synthetic is definitely bad. And
[14:15] Speaker 2: I'd say one thing that I find a little bit ironic,
[14:20] Speaker 2: and this is a kind of a pattern to look
[14:25] Speaker 2: for when you're looking for good science communicators. Is a
[14:27] Speaker 2: lot of people that are pushing methylene blue right now.
[14:30] Speaker 2: They're the same people that will say avoid all seed
[14:34] Speaker 2: oils because they're synthetic, they're not natural. But then in
[14:39] Speaker 2: the other hand, they're telling you to supplement with methylene blue.
[14:43] Speaker 2: You see how there's a logical inconsistency if your view
[14:47] Speaker 2: is that something that's synthetic is harmful. You can't just
[14:51] Speaker 2: treat things two things differently, allegedly on the one that
[14:55] Speaker 2: you're making money off. So looking for logical consistency is
[14:59] Speaker 2: really porn when you're looking to see if someone is
[15:02] Speaker 2: providing objective or at least consistent advice. Another one you
[15:06] Speaker 2: will often see is someone will use an animal study
[15:10] Speaker 2: one day to support something mice or rats. Yeah, yeah,
[15:13] Speaker 2: And animal studies have their role. They're usually hypothesis generating.
[15:17] Speaker 2: They they don't always translate to humans, but they can
[15:20] Speaker 2: inform the next stage of science that is conducted in humans.
[15:26] Speaker 2: But I'll often see people online where one day they're
[15:29] Speaker 2: citing animal studies to support their position, and then the
[15:32] Speaker 2: next day they're talking about how animal studies are not
[15:36] Speaker 2: reliable and accurate because someone's presented an animal study that
[15:40] Speaker 2: doesn't support one of their currently held positions.
[15:43] Speaker 1: What hope is a pundle like me? God like? So
[15:46] Speaker 1: what should I do? What do people listening to what
[15:48] Speaker 1: you've just said, of which there'll be literally millions at
[15:52] Speaker 1: least in this country, what should they do?
[15:54] Speaker 2: Well? I think when you hear something that's very obscure, outrageous,
[15:58] Speaker 2: outside of the box, alarm bell should go off.
[16:02] Speaker 1: Right.
[16:02] Speaker 2: It might be that it's something like methyline blue methylene blue.
[16:07] Speaker 2: Maybe it could be beneficial.
[16:09] Speaker 1: We don't know.
[16:09] Speaker 2: I don't know. There's not a lot of research on it.
[16:12] Speaker 2: But what I would say is, if it's outside of
[16:14] Speaker 2: the box, while you may get a benefit from it,
[16:17] Speaker 2: you're also accepting risk, right because you know everything is
[16:22] Speaker 2: a risk for reward calculation. And if we don't understand
[16:25] Speaker 2: what the true benefits are of supplementing methyl and blue
[16:28] Speaker 2: in what does for who? For how long? We also
[16:32] Speaker 2: don't understand how safe that is or what risks are
[16:35] Speaker 2: attached to it. So when something's obscure. For me, it's
[16:40] Speaker 2: it's a little bit of an alarm bell going off.
[16:42] Speaker 2: I'm not just going to jump into it and start
[16:45] Speaker 2: supplementing with it. I want to see people that I
[16:50] Speaker 2: trust who are providing credible information also recommending it, and
[16:55] Speaker 2: I would ideally want to see it in the guidelines
[16:58] Speaker 2: being recommended.
[16:59] Speaker 1: Guidelines which gidlines between.
[17:00] Speaker 2: Men dietary guidelines, or consensus papers on supplements, of which
[17:05] Speaker 2: you know there are consensus papers on supplements that speak
[17:08] Speaker 2: about supplements like creatine where at least I mean, there's
[17:12] Speaker 2: evidence of benefit. Magnitude of benefit varies depending on the outcome,
[17:16] Speaker 2: but the safety profile is pretty well established.
[17:19] Speaker 1: Whether or not it does any for you, it's what
[17:22] Speaker 1: it won't. It's not going to harm you.
[17:24] Speaker 2: Right, So we know that you might get small benefits
[17:26] Speaker 2: in certain areas for strength creating, even for cognition. Again,
[17:32] Speaker 2: it's even for bone health. But some of this is
[17:35] Speaker 2: context dependent. You know, we know that there's bone health
[17:38] Speaker 2: benefits observed in postmenopausal women. I can't sit here and
[17:42] Speaker 2: say today that you'll get that benefit. I haven't seen
[17:45] Speaker 2: that in the study of.
[17:46] Speaker 1: I'm different on postmenopausal right.
[17:50] Speaker 2: But what we do know is at you know, doses
[17:53] Speaker 2: that people are recommending, the safety profile is really good.
[17:57] Speaker 2: At worst, someone's going to get a little bit of
[17:59] Speaker 2: a cute gi up said, and then they might feel
[18:02] Speaker 2: some kind of nausea gut symptoms acutely. And you can
[18:08] Speaker 2: you can reduce that by kind of splitting your dose
[18:11] Speaker 2: with creatine and usually or having it with food, and
[18:13] Speaker 2: usually people don't experience that. But in one hand, so
[18:17] Speaker 2: creatine has been studied in hundreds, if not thousands of
[18:20] Speaker 2: clinical trials with humans, so looking at what is the
[18:24] Speaker 2: efficacy and we have safety profile data. That's why it's
[18:27] Speaker 2: in guidelines from very reputable nutrition organizations, whereas methylene blue
[18:32] Speaker 2: is not.
[18:33] Speaker 1: Yeah, So therefore, because as opposed to picking up what's
[18:39] Speaker 1: just trending, and like methlene blue is probably trending, it
[18:44] Speaker 1: sort of creatine is trending a little bit too. But
[18:48] Speaker 1: I still don't know how I would pick between the two.
[18:51] Speaker 1: I mean, I sort of have a better idea generally speaking,
[18:54] Speaker 1: but I'm talking about it, I'm talking behalf of normal people.
[18:57] Speaker 1: How do you pick between the two? And so how
[18:59] Speaker 1: would normal person say? Is it a matter of who
[19:03] Speaker 1: do I trust and who has a trusted brand as
[19:07] Speaker 1: an individual that talks about creating relative to I haven't
[19:12] Speaker 1: heard Andrew Human talk about methlene blue. I haven't heard
[19:15] Speaker 1: Peter A. Tier talk about methaline blue, haven't heard you're
[19:17] Speaker 1: talking about methylene blue. But I have heard all three
[19:19] Speaker 1: of you talk about creating. Is that sort of a
[19:21] Speaker 1: better way to look at it? In other words, don't
[19:24] Speaker 1: just pick up whatever you see like I did pick
[19:26] Speaker 1: up something on Instagram, order the bloody thing. Go back
[19:29] Speaker 1: and maybe if you follow any one of those three
[19:31] Speaker 1: or all of those three, go back and just go
[19:33] Speaker 1: through their you know, their episodes and see if anyone
[19:37] Speaker 1: has actually talked about this particular product.
[19:39] Speaker 2: Is that the way it layers to this. So you're
[19:42] Speaker 2: you're if you're digesting information online from someone who is
[19:46] Speaker 2: providing recommendations, you know, like myself or Andrew Huberman, you're
[19:51] Speaker 2: looking for those traits of someone who is speaking with
[19:55] Speaker 2: a degree of nuanced context, someone who's willing to change
[19:57] Speaker 2: their mind. That's a very good sign, someone who appears
[20:04] Speaker 2: to be logically consistent. But I would go a step
[20:08] Speaker 2: further and say, you if we're thinking about creating, and
[20:12] Speaker 2: this is one of the reasons why I get domain
[20:14] Speaker 2: specific experts. On my show. I've had two or three
[20:17] Speaker 2: different scientists who only study creating on the show to
[20:21] Speaker 2: hear directly from them.
[20:22] Speaker 1: Some of those people should go and have look at
[20:24] Speaker 1: your episodes and see who you're talking to me.
[20:27] Speaker 2: On any of these shows, whether it's Peter and Tiers
[20:29] Speaker 2: or Human or my show or your show. If you're
[20:34] Speaker 2: wanting it to hear about the science of creating, the
[20:40] Speaker 2: best source is going to be the creating scientists who
[20:43] Speaker 2: spent thirty years as a domain specific expert. And that's
[20:47] Speaker 2: another sign of another green flag is when you're listening
[20:49] Speaker 2: to an expert, is someone sticking to their area of
[20:53] Speaker 2: expertise or are they going way out wide right? When
[20:56] Speaker 2: people are going way outside of their line of their lane,
[21:00] Speaker 2: for me, that's a bit of a red flag.
[21:03] Speaker 1: So they so a better if they quote a study.
[21:06] Speaker 1: So let's say there's been a they're outside of their territory.
[21:10] Speaker 1: A lot of people don't always to clear the territory,
[21:12] Speaker 1: but they're outside of the territory. Let's say, but they
[21:15] Speaker 1: quote but they you know, have a science background, but
[21:18] Speaker 1: they quote a study. Is that a Is that dangerous
[21:24] Speaker 1: for us to immediately rely upon that study as something that.
[21:28] Speaker 2: Should half course, because you can say study show to
[21:33] Speaker 2: just about prove anything. Yeah, but as I mentioned before,
[21:36] Speaker 2: you know, many times studies in cell cultures or animal
[21:40] Speaker 2: studies don't translate to humans.
[21:43] Speaker 1: And may not even translate to me as a human.
[21:46] Speaker 1: To me, it might be different to you correct.
[21:48] Speaker 2: Or you could have a human study that was looking
[21:51] Speaker 2: at twenty five year old healthy adults and without the
[21:55] Speaker 2: context of that, to just assume that that's generalizable and
[21:59] Speaker 2: translate it's to a woman or a man in their forties,
[22:03] Speaker 2: fifties or sixties, there's a big assumption there. So again,
[22:07] Speaker 2: if someone's just saying, you know, study show, it's like, well,
[22:10] Speaker 2: what studies and what type of study design was this?
[22:14] Speaker 2: If it was humans, like who were they? You know,
[22:16] Speaker 2: if we're talking about a food, for example, or a nutrient,
[22:20] Speaker 2: it's always like, what was the dose compared to what?
[22:24] Speaker 2: Because the thing with nutrition is when you eat something,
[22:27] Speaker 2: there's an opportunity cost you're displacing something else, So you
[22:30] Speaker 2: always have to consider the comparator. Because you can get
[22:33] Speaker 2: a food like or a nutrient like saturated fat and
[22:38] Speaker 2: make it look really good if you compare it to
[22:39] Speaker 2: sugar or you can make it look really bad if
[22:42] Speaker 2: you compare it to unsaturated fats, and so there's all
[22:45] Speaker 2: of this kind of.
[22:47] Speaker 1: There are nuances it. Therefore, I mean there is massive
[22:51] Speaker 1: rising tide in relation to products and the science around
[22:57] Speaker 1: health and longevity and well, at least top mising your
[23:00] Speaker 1: longevity relative to you, your genetics and your environment. It's
[23:05] Speaker 1: about optimization. Everyone's got a different set of genetics, everyone's
[23:09] Speaker 1: got a different type of environment within within which they live,
[23:13] Speaker 1: and the ability to do you know, ten minutes of
[23:15] Speaker 1: exercise you mightn't, you might have enough time to do
[23:18] Speaker 1: two hours, and everyone's different, completely different. So I think
[23:22] Speaker 1: what I'm getting from this and it's sort of how
[23:24] Speaker 1: I operate, which one of the reason I've got to
[23:27] Speaker 1: on is that I just pick a couple of people
[23:31] Speaker 1: in this game, and I pick you and Whoman and
[23:35] Speaker 1: a tear around the optimization of longevity, and I pick
[23:40] Speaker 1: people who interview other people her experts in the particular area.
[23:44] Speaker 1: So you know, it gets to really rarely get to
[23:46] Speaker 1: see Whoman saying, you know, I'm I'm turning about creat scene.
[23:50] Speaker 1: You know, he will get someone who's an expert, and
[23:52] Speaker 1: I'd like you do and Ta does the same thing.
[23:54] Speaker 1: It's just that Peter t stuff is pretty dense. Yeah,
[23:58] Speaker 1: levels today it's like right into the weeds, and they
[24:01] Speaker 1: can lose most people because it gets too way too
[24:04] Speaker 1: scientific outside of most people's realm. But nonetheless, if you're
[24:09] Speaker 1: prepared to go through the three hours of listening to
[24:11] Speaker 1: one of his really long podcasts, you're better off listening
[24:14] Speaker 1: to individuals like that.
[24:16] Speaker 2: Be good.
[24:16] Speaker 1: I feel as a female in there. I'm sure there are,
[24:18] Speaker 1: but I.
[24:19] Speaker 2: Don't know who Doctor Ronda Patrick doesn't make what's his name,
[24:22] Speaker 2: Dr Rnda Patrick.
[24:23] Speaker 1: Rnda Patrick does a job to there's a good female
[24:25] Speaker 1: in there if you want to get a different perspective
[24:27] Speaker 1: as well, and probably cover off for females. Probably the
[24:31] Speaker 1: effects on females. I think what we're getting from this
[24:34] Speaker 1: conversation before I move on, is that don't be swayed.
[24:42] Speaker 1: Become curious, but don't be swayed by what you might
[24:44] Speaker 1: see on Instagram straight up.
[24:46] Speaker 2: Right, don't don't if you're finding yourself scrolling and then
[24:49] Speaker 2: you know, day to day, week's week, you're flip flopping
[24:51] Speaker 2: back and forth like their scientific consensus doesn't change that quickly. Yeah,
[24:54] Speaker 2: you're probably it's probably time for an audit of who
[24:57] Speaker 2: you're following and go through and look, okay, these the
[25:00] Speaker 2: good science communications that I trust. I'm going to really
[25:03] Speaker 2: focus on the content they're sharing and the guests that
[25:06] Speaker 2: they have. And then one other thing I just quickly
[25:08] Speaker 2: added before we move on, is I think because your
[25:12] Speaker 2: question here is like what do people do? Is a
[25:15] Speaker 2: great question because and I like, I feel for the
[25:19] Speaker 2: everyday person out there who has this avalanche of information
[25:23] Speaker 2: and is unsure who to trust, is not feeling empowered,
[25:29] Speaker 2: They're not confident in the decisions they're making every day,
[25:32] Speaker 2: and I'm not sure you know, they have a certain
[25:34] Speaker 2: amount of resources, they're not sure where to allocate them.
[25:37] Speaker 2: I think, honestly, if we're talking about methylene blue and
[25:40] Speaker 2: all these obscure things we're majoring in the miners, there's
[25:43] Speaker 2: a lot of people fighting on the internet about methylene
[25:45] Speaker 2: blue who quite frankly, are not focusing on just eating
[25:51] Speaker 2: a good, healthy dietary pattern consistently. I'm not trying to
[25:56] Speaker 2: get the two and a half hours of sweat and
[25:59] Speaker 2: moving their hotty every week and not focusing on what
[26:03] Speaker 2: are the little things they can do to perhaps improve
[26:05] Speaker 2: their sleep. You know how much energy and time they
[26:08] Speaker 2: put into their relationships. And so if you're finding yourself
[26:13] Speaker 2: obsessed and focusing over all of these things where there's
[26:15] Speaker 2: a lack of evidence and it's affecting the foundations of
[26:19] Speaker 2: a healthy life, where we have just such a broad
[26:22] Speaker 2: body of literature supporting the benefits of these things for longevity,
[26:27] Speaker 2: i'd come back to the foundation and.
[26:29] Speaker 1: The foundations being I mean, which the whole purpose of
[26:32] Speaker 1: this show actually is. The foundation is being sleep, exercise,
[26:36] Speaker 1: and basic nutrition.
[26:38] Speaker 2: And relationship, community, social connection, mindfulness.
[26:42] Speaker 1: Yeah, they're sort of like the five things that you know,
[26:47] Speaker 1: we really need to get right, and get those things
[26:49] Speaker 1: right first.
[26:50] Speaker 2: And they all interact with each other.
[26:51] Speaker 1: Yeah, well they're all dependent on each other, like there's
[26:54] Speaker 1: no they're not separate, they're not mutually exclusive, they're all inclusive.
[26:59] Speaker 1: You've got to get all that right. But I think
[27:01] Speaker 1: it was important, if you don't mind me having gone
[27:03] Speaker 1: down that rabbit hole. A little bit dumb to talk
[27:05] Speaker 1: about context relative to what we're all getting bombarded with.
[27:12] Speaker 1: But let's peel back now, let's get back to the basics.
[27:15] Speaker 1: Let's get back to fundamentals. So and one we hear
[27:19] Speaker 1: about a lot is and this is a consistent theme.
[27:23] Speaker 1: You we need into the protein between one point a
[27:30] Speaker 1: to two point two grams of protein per kilogram of
[27:33] Speaker 1: our body weight. That's a consistent theme. I've heard it
[27:35] Speaker 1: from you have heard from a taverted from human, and
[27:38] Speaker 1: like one hundred others. Okay, it seems to be a
[27:41] Speaker 1: generally accepted principle, but there are nuances with that, age, gender, output,
[27:49] Speaker 1: the amount of exercise you do. You know what type
[27:51] Speaker 1: of exercise you do? Can we just talk about this?
[27:55] Speaker 1: And then, by the way, where do I get it from?
[27:57] Speaker 1: Like if I hit a two under gram steak, that
[27:59] Speaker 1: doesn't mean it just got to a gram's worth of protein. No,
[28:01] Speaker 1: it means I've got a lot, I've got a lot less.
[28:03] Speaker 1: So do you mind if we just sort of unpacked
[28:07] Speaker 1: that a little bit. Let's start with do you agree
[28:12] Speaker 1: with the proposition generally except principle that one point eight
[28:16] Speaker 1: to two point two grams of protein per kilogram weight,
[28:22] Speaker 1: you know, per day. They're not saying you need to
[28:26] Speaker 1: do it every day, because say you might not do it,
[28:27] Speaker 1: But do you need to catch up tomorrow or is
[28:29] Speaker 1: it per week?
[28:29] Speaker 2: I mean consistently, I'd say I'd say one point six
[28:32] Speaker 2: grams per kilogram as the lower end up to two
[28:37] Speaker 2: point two grams per kilogram, right, I'm I'm not a
[28:41] Speaker 2: lot of the studies that look at sort of one
[28:44] Speaker 2: point six grams of protein per kilogram are comparing to
[28:48] Speaker 2: the RDA, which is point eight recommended daily The recommended
[28:51] Speaker 2: daily allowance or recommend a daily intate, depending what country
[28:54] Speaker 2: you're from, is point eight grams per kilogram is much lower.
[28:57] Speaker 2: It's pretty low. Yeah, right, so we understand that at
[29:00] Speaker 2: that one point six to point a, there's definitely an
[29:03] Speaker 2: advantage to being at one point six grams per kilogram.
[29:06] Speaker 2: I'm not yet fully convinced there's a huge difference between
[29:09] Speaker 2: one point two grams per kilogram and one point six
[29:13] Speaker 2: grams percular way in the middle, but you know, I
[29:17] Speaker 2: think there's no real downside to getting to one point
[29:19] Speaker 2: six grams per kilogram.
[29:20] Speaker 1: So if you have more, there's.
[29:22] Speaker 2: No real downside. That's a myth that it affects the kidneys.
[29:24] Speaker 2: I mean, the downside is that it's probably going to
[29:27] Speaker 2: reduce your appetite, which is a good kind of side
[29:31] Speaker 2: effect to have. So I would say, yep, I would
[29:35] Speaker 2: say it's a pretty sensible idea to focus on one
[29:37] Speaker 2: point six grams per per kilogram.
[29:39] Speaker 1: As a reasonable position.
[29:43] Speaker 2: Reasonable position, and if you're falling between one point two
[29:45] Speaker 2: and one point six grams per kilogram, I don't think
[29:47] Speaker 2: it's the sweat world. I think the bigger thing to
[29:50] Speaker 2: sweat is the stimulus, which is where most people are
[29:54] Speaker 2: are kind of overlooking, which is the resistance training piece.
[29:57] Speaker 2: It doesn't matter how much you ramp up that protein
[30:00] Speaker 2: to one point a to two point two if the
[30:03] Speaker 2: stimulus isn't there.
[30:05] Speaker 1: So we therefore we should be clear on this. The
[30:08] Speaker 1: objective of trying to get to one point two, one
[30:10] Speaker 1: point six, one point eight or two point two, whatever
[30:12] Speaker 1: it is, wherever you decide as an individual to go to.
[30:15] Speaker 1: The objective is to build strength and muscle and laid
[30:18] Speaker 1: to train. That's is that great?
[30:21] Speaker 2: Yeah? So as we as we age the stimulus as
[30:23] Speaker 2: we age, if we're talking about longevity, and this is
[30:25] Speaker 2: another good thing for us to kind of encapsulate here
[30:28] Speaker 2: with protein, is what do we care about? Is it?
[30:31] Speaker 2: Are we are we just focusing on hypertrady and building muscle,
[30:34] Speaker 2: is that the outcomes of interest? Or are we focused
[30:36] Speaker 2: on longevity and therefore also cartiovascular disease type two diabetes,
[30:41] Speaker 2: cancer risk, dementia risk. Right, Because for me, when I
[30:45] Speaker 2: look at protein based on my goals, I look at
[30:49] Speaker 2: all of that. I'm not just optimizing for a hypertrophy.
[30:52] Speaker 2: I also want to consider longevity, which is where protein
[30:55] Speaker 2: source comes into this equation, a source of where the
[30:58] Speaker 2: product comes, where you're getting from the routine package. And
[31:02] Speaker 2: I think that's often overlooked a little bit in the
[31:03] Speaker 2: fitness industry, kind of where I actually came from, you know,
[31:07] Speaker 2: originally in my early mid twenties. So the stimulus that
[31:15] Speaker 2: where you and I are talking about here that's kind
[31:17] Speaker 2: of needed in order to utilize this protein is some
[31:21] Speaker 2: form of resistance training, whether that's your body weight or
[31:25] Speaker 2: lifting weights, and the body the body adapts to that.
[31:29] Speaker 2: So as you place the body under this stress, you know,
[31:33] Speaker 2: let's say you're doing squats, providing you doing what's called
[31:36] Speaker 2: an effective set. So an effective set in lay terms,
[31:41] Speaker 2: just means that you put on a given load that
[31:46] Speaker 2: allowed that got you and you and you performed a
[31:49] Speaker 2: number of reps to the point where you were within
[31:51] Speaker 2: two reps of failure. Does that make sense?
[31:54] Speaker 1: You have some other words, you get to six with
[31:58] Speaker 1: that even weight that's across on the bar, across your
[32:03] Speaker 1: shoulders or in front of However, be holding it and
[32:06] Speaker 1: you think I've only got two more. I can't do
[32:07] Speaker 1: more than two more.
[32:08] Speaker 2: And most people underestimate that, so they think I've only
[32:11] Speaker 2: got two more, but they probably have like five more.
[32:14] Speaker 1: That's two more reps, but a good structure, like really
[32:17] Speaker 1: good form.
[32:20] Speaker 2: I would say two reps to failure, to which a
[32:23] Speaker 2: lot of people have never felt, which is a good
[32:25] Speaker 2: reason to use machines because like you can imagine going
[32:30] Speaker 2: to failure on squad rack without a spot, it's a
[32:33] Speaker 2: dangerous thing to do.
[32:34] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[32:35] Speaker 2: So, so for a novice lifter who hasn't felt failure
[32:39] Speaker 2: a lot, experience lifts are much better at getting to
[32:42] Speaker 2: within two reps of failure. It's clear in the literature.
[32:45] Speaker 1: So you don't do if you get to twos, you
[32:47] Speaker 1: don't do you don't do the two more. You stop
[32:49] Speaker 1: it within you stop at six for example. Want I
[32:51] Speaker 1: just gave you that, right?
[32:52] Speaker 2: Yeah? Training two failure is something else we can talk about,
[32:55] Speaker 2: and experience lifters might intersperse out and build that into
[32:59] Speaker 2: their program, but it's not going to be every set
[33:01] Speaker 2: and for the everyday person thinking about longevity. I wouldn't
[33:04] Speaker 2: even focus on that because what I would talk about
[33:07] Speaker 2: on is a REP range of between six and ten.
[33:10] Speaker 2: And I like that REP range because it's a REP
[33:13] Speaker 2: range that is going to help you build some muscle,
[33:15] Speaker 2: but it's also a strength and really, as we age
[33:19] Speaker 2: its strength is the main outcome that we need to
[33:23] Speaker 2: be able to navigate our environment and reduce her risk
[33:27] Speaker 2: of falls and fractures. So the point that I want
[33:31] Speaker 2: to make here is to utilize that protein and get
[33:34] Speaker 2: an adaptation to get an increase in muscles YEP, to
[33:37] Speaker 2: get an increase in strength, to actually promote hyperchav increased muscle,
[33:44] Speaker 2: a growth of muscle tissue. You need to get within
[33:47] Speaker 2: two reps of failure. That's what the research shows, or
[33:50] Speaker 2: else you haven't. You just haven't taken that set far
[33:54] Speaker 2: enough for the body to basically say, hey, I need
[33:57] Speaker 2: to adapt, I need to get stronger.
[34:00] Speaker 1: It just stays the same.
[34:01] Speaker 2: And if you do about ten sets across a week
[34:04] Speaker 2: for a muscle group. So if we were to think
[34:08] Speaker 2: of a very basic program and I'm not sure how
[34:10] Speaker 2: far you want to go down, the path is yeah,
[34:13] Speaker 2: So like a basic program, there would be a push
[34:17] Speaker 2: there'd be a pulling, there'd be a squatting exercise, and
[34:21] Speaker 2: then like a hinging kind of dead lift postteriy train
[34:25] Speaker 2: leg exercise, and across the week, in each of those
[34:29] Speaker 2: four movement patterns, if you're doing ten sets that are
[34:32] Speaker 2: effective sets as described as a period right over a week,
[34:37] Speaker 2: then that is like a minimum threshold to actually promote
[34:41] Speaker 2: these strength and hypertrophy two of failure right, ten effective sets,
[34:46] Speaker 2: So you'd want to have ten effective sets of pushing,
[34:50] Speaker 2: ten effective sets a week of pulling, ten effective sets
[34:53] Speaker 2: a week of some type of squatting pattern, and then
[34:56] Speaker 2: ten effective sets of some type of like hip hinging,
[34:59] Speaker 2: like a a dead lift right for you chain right
[35:02] Speaker 2: for your ham strings. And and that's a very kind
[35:07] Speaker 2: of just foundational, basic type of resistance training program. You
[35:12] Speaker 2: could probably split that into two sessions a week and
[35:15] Speaker 2: just do two full body.
[35:17] Speaker 1: Workouts of five five sets each.
[35:19] Speaker 2: Yep. And that's a's a that's a really great starting point,
[35:23] Speaker 2: I would. I mean, that's got to be individualized depending
[35:27] Speaker 2: on the person. Like my mum, for example, just to
[35:31] Speaker 2: tell you a quick story, she's nearly seventy and she's
[35:35] Speaker 2: had a few falls. She were in burly Heads about
[35:39] Speaker 2: two weeks ago walking to dinner and she tripped and stumbled,
[35:43] Speaker 2: and thankfully she didn't. She didn't break a bone or
[35:46] Speaker 2: hurt herself, but she could have very easily, and she
[35:48] Speaker 2: has done in the past. And I was talking to
[35:52] Speaker 2: her about her training, and I think, and this takes
[35:55] Speaker 2: me back to my origins in physiotherapy. I think like
[36:00] Speaker 2: as we age, our training needs to adapt a little bit.
[36:03] Speaker 2: We can that training program that I just kind of
[36:06] Speaker 2: explained that can be done in a number of ways,
[36:08] Speaker 2: and it can be very one dimensional, which is not
[36:13] Speaker 2: translatable to the to the real world necessarily. So you know,
[36:17] Speaker 2: the old school training of just moving in one kind
[36:21] Speaker 2: of plane, linear plane on two legs, so not on
[36:25] Speaker 2: a single leg, three seconds down, three up, which is
[36:28] Speaker 2: it's not a problem, but I actually think we need
[36:32] Speaker 2: to introduce into the resistance training program some more kind
[36:36] Speaker 2: of three D elements, So thinking about changing the velocity
[36:41] Speaker 2: and the speed. A lot of the time when when
[36:43] Speaker 2: someone falls, it's not just strength, it's their ability to
[36:45] Speaker 2: quickly produce force.
[36:47] Speaker 1: The fast twitch most right.
[36:49] Speaker 2: So, so you know during the training and during some
[36:52] Speaker 2: of these lifts, not always training at the same velocity
[36:55] Speaker 2: having having faster movements as well get being being challenged
[37:02] Speaker 2: without balance, and that's introducing other forms of exercise, like
[37:07] Speaker 2: you know, depending what someone enjoys, but like something like boxing,
[37:10] Speaker 2: it's a it's a great cut of ascular workout, but
[37:14] Speaker 2: it's also causing the body to kind of be off
[37:17] Speaker 2: balance and you're you're getting pushed at in sort of
[37:21] Speaker 2: awkward positions and training when you're training and doing squatting
[37:26] Speaker 2: patterns or hinging, doing single leg work not just all
[37:31] Speaker 2: bilateral work, so that your balance is a little bit
[37:34] Speaker 2: more affected. You know, these are the types of things
[37:36] Speaker 2: that I'm thinking about as I'm kind of personalizing a
[37:41] Speaker 2: program for someone as they're aging.
[37:43] Speaker 1: So that's quite interesting because you told me my mom
[37:45] Speaker 1: not that long ago, I'm about the same as you, mum,
[37:52] Speaker 1: by the sound of it. And I fell and I
[37:54] Speaker 1: was walking along and I've actually stepped into a hole
[37:57] Speaker 1: in the footpath, quite a deep hole with my left leg,
[38:00] Speaker 1: and and as a result of I fell over, and uh,
[38:05] Speaker 1: you know, I felt the pain. Blah blah blah. I
[38:07] Speaker 1: didn't know anything about it. And then of course, only
[38:10] Speaker 1: literally two weeks ago, week and a half ago, I thought,
[38:13] Speaker 1: but the peedy guy and he's actually coming on the
[38:16] Speaker 1: show in a week or two, and he sent me
[38:20] Speaker 1: off to MRI and he also want to make sure
[38:22] Speaker 1: I didn't fracture anything, so I got an X ray
[38:25] Speaker 1: as well. Fortunately nothing, nothing broken. But it turns out
[38:30] Speaker 1: I tore my glute minimus tendon gone off, straight off,
[38:39] Speaker 1: medius gluede medius tendon partial and partial terror of my abductor.
[38:46] Speaker 1: I was one of when I was in pain and why
[38:50] Speaker 1: I was wondering, also why I was every time I
[38:53] Speaker 1: would try to do a squat stupidly and my lead
[38:57] Speaker 1: kept turning in because I didn't have any to flow
[39:00] Speaker 1: back out. These are your stabilizers, okay. And with what
[39:04] Speaker 1: you're talking about and their exercises, I mean I did
[39:07] Speaker 1: box for a long like million years and do jiu
[39:12] Speaker 1: jitsu a couple of times a week now. I have
[39:14] Speaker 1: been doing that for a long time, so I sort
[39:18] Speaker 1: of do do those types of things. But when it
[39:19] Speaker 1: comes to actual resistance works work, I do that linear
[39:23] Speaker 1: stuff that you're talking about earlier on and of course
[39:26] Speaker 1: that is running, fixing up your your maximus. You're good maximus.
[39:30] Speaker 1: It's not helping all those little things. And I've always
[39:34] Speaker 1: just done the same stuff and over and over again.
[39:37] Speaker 1: And only more recently I've just I've become more cognizant
[39:42] Speaker 1: of what you just said that I probably need to
[39:44] Speaker 1: change it up single legs, you know, just just change
[39:48] Speaker 1: it up. But I don't. For someone like me, I
[39:51] Speaker 1: actually don't know how to do it. I'd have to
[39:53] Speaker 1: go and consult something like you, you know, or I'd
[39:55] Speaker 1: have to go to some guy at the gym, a trainer.
[39:58] Speaker 1: So how to you know, the theory is right, what
[40:02] Speaker 1: you said is right, and you know, we are talking
[40:03] Speaker 1: about people who Why this is an important topic, particularly
[40:07] Speaker 1: as we get older, is that sometimes people have not
[40:11] Speaker 1: have not got enough stability in their body and they
[40:13] Speaker 1: do fall over and they break a hip. And then
[40:16] Speaker 1: we've all heard the story about, you know, the correlation
[40:19] Speaker 1: between broken hip and two eight and months later people dying.
[40:22] Speaker 1: Because over sixty five, how do people get the head
[40:26] Speaker 1: around Okay, what exercises should I be doing in my sixties?
[40:30] Speaker 1: I mean, your mum's like you, she's got you.
[40:32] Speaker 2: Yeah. So if you don't have an individual that you
[40:36] Speaker 2: can consult with, because you certainly can't go see an
[40:38] Speaker 2: exercise physiologist yep, or a physiotherapist and they'll get you
[40:40] Speaker 2: doing all sorts of it.
[40:41] Speaker 1: We've got a planet. Others say the way Suburbs, you're
[40:43] Speaker 1: just doing his job and he's a train driver and
[40:45] Speaker 1: he hasn't got that much money, but he's listening to
[40:48] Speaker 1: the show.
[40:48] Speaker 2: Go on YouTube and look for a free yoga or
[40:52] Speaker 2: Plarties workout that you can do in your living room.
[40:54] Speaker 1: So Parlarties and yoga help this.
[40:55] Speaker 2: Get a yoga mat well, I mean, these are going
[40:58] Speaker 2: to be a working on all those stabilizing muscles. And
[41:01] Speaker 2: I'm not sure how much yoga you've done, but balance
[41:04] Speaker 2: is a big component of it. So if you've got
[41:07] Speaker 2: the kind of single plane main sort of push pull,
[41:12] Speaker 2: squat hinge down pat and you're doing that and you're thinking,
[41:16] Speaker 2: how can I make my training a little bit more diversified,
[41:20] Speaker 2: how can I improve my mobility, get these stabilizing muscles
[41:24] Speaker 2: working better so that I can overall reduce my risk
[41:28] Speaker 2: of having a fall, because having a fall is not
[41:29] Speaker 2: just about the strength, you know, as we've kind of discussed.
[41:33] Speaker 2: Then yeah, just in your living room, start doing party,
[41:36] Speaker 2: start doing All you need is a matt. There are
[41:38] Speaker 2: free courses out there if you have a little bit
[41:40] Speaker 2: of budget, go go and do a yoga or parties
[41:44] Speaker 2: class in your community.
[41:45] Speaker 1: Okay, if I just stop you there for moments on So, so, okay,
[41:49] Speaker 1: we're in our week, and we will talking about protein.
[41:51] Speaker 1: We'll come back to that in a second. But we're
[41:56] Speaker 1: doing let's say we're doing those four exercises you mentioned,
[42:00] Speaker 1: and we're doing ten sets of those over a week,
[42:03] Speaker 1: over a seven day period, might be two days of
[42:05] Speaker 1: five sets each, and we're doing that within two reps
[42:09] Speaker 1: of failure, so we might be doing six or grade
[42:12] Speaker 1: or whatever. And so we're doing that, but it's probably
[42:18] Speaker 1: not enough. We probably need to consider doing at least
[42:23] Speaker 1: one yoga class or a plarties class every week, and
[42:27] Speaker 1: it can be online. And as you say, there are
[42:29] Speaker 1: three ones. I've seen them. You know they're three classes online.
[42:33] Speaker 1: What is the difference between you and I know about it,
[42:36] Speaker 1: but a lot of people do know' what is the
[42:37] Speaker 1: difference between polartes and yoga? But what are we talking about?
[42:40] Speaker 1: We're talking about parties on the ground or polarates on
[42:42] Speaker 1: a box or Matt pallarts. What are we talking about?
[42:45] Speaker 1: What is parties?
[42:46] Speaker 2: Well, you can have reformer parties, Yeah, well, you can
[42:49] Speaker 2: have You've had Michael Ramsey on the show and he
[42:51] Speaker 2: has Strong YEP, which is a combination of high intensity
[42:55] Speaker 2: workout and reformer polartis.
[42:57] Speaker 1: So here's the Strong franchise.
[42:59] Speaker 2: Right, and that's that's like a hybrid version, which is great,
[43:04] Speaker 2: particularly if you're not getting your high intensity work done
[43:06] Speaker 2: elsewhere in the week. You know, another part of I
[43:08] Speaker 2: think a robust program is making sure you're getting your
[43:11] Speaker 2: heart rate up to ninety ninety five percent max at
[43:14] Speaker 2: least once a week, right, So something like Strong is
[43:17] Speaker 2: a great format for that. But in terms of, you know,
[43:20] Speaker 2: the difference between yoga and polartis, I guess traditionally because
[43:24] Speaker 2: these have become more and more similar over time, the
[43:27] Speaker 2: emerging like matte polarts often, you know, I'll go and
[43:30] Speaker 2: do it environ and a lot of it feels like yoga,
[43:33] Speaker 2: but then sometimes you'll have weights and so you'll pick
[43:35] Speaker 2: up weights and do things, whereas yoga itself tends to
[43:39] Speaker 2: be just you and the mat and body weight stuff.
[43:42] Speaker 2: But I think they're both similar in terms of they're
[43:47] Speaker 2: going to help improve mobility, they're going to help improve
[43:50] Speaker 2: balance because there's a lot of single leg work and
[43:54] Speaker 2: they also do make help improve strength. There's a lot
[43:57] Speaker 2: of time under tension. Yeah, right, Yogis are pretty strong.
[44:00] Speaker 1: Yeah, and time and attention is really important. And with
[44:03] Speaker 1: yoga what what you need may be a good explains,
[44:05] Speaker 1: but and what time and attention means means holding a
[44:08] Speaker 1: pose and you can do that even in the gym
[44:10] Speaker 1: with waits, by the way, but in yoga, if we
[44:14] Speaker 1: just go back to the yoga, that's holding a position
[44:18] Speaker 1: for usually five breaths in yoga, it depends which time
[44:21] Speaker 1: you're doing. But let's call it mash tango, one of
[44:25] Speaker 1: those one of those movement yogas you are holding your
[44:28] Speaker 1: position for a fire breath. Once you get to a
[44:30] Speaker 1: certain position, you're holding it. And so that is important
[44:33] Speaker 1: for strength.
[44:34] Speaker 2: Is it builds endurance muscular endurance right right, So it's
[44:38] Speaker 2: ability to generate force over time, which is a little
[44:41] Speaker 2: bit different to what you're doing in a typical resistance
[44:44] Speaker 2: training workout.
[44:46] Speaker 1: Yeah, because the resistance training more explosive. That's okay, So okay,
[44:50] Speaker 1: now let's just so that's your that's the activation process
[44:58] Speaker 1: of relative to the protein we're taking. Because proteins, if
[45:03] Speaker 1: I'm doing nothing, if I'm taking protein like one point
[45:05] Speaker 1: six grams a day per kilogram, and I'm just sit
[45:09] Speaker 1: around all day.
[45:10] Speaker 2: Probably no point, it's probably not much better than getting
[45:13] Speaker 2: one point two grams peculiar gram. I mean, you might
[45:16] Speaker 2: get a little bit of the benefit on satiety and
[45:18] Speaker 2: perhaps it helps you maintain a better body composition. But
[45:22] Speaker 2: again there are studies that have looked at this, looked
[45:25] Speaker 2: at what happens to say, for example, strength as you
[45:29] Speaker 2: go from point eight grams peculiar gram up to one
[45:32] Speaker 2: point six grams in two different contexts. One is a
[45:36] Speaker 2: sedentary context doing nothing and one is doing resistance training.
[45:41] Speaker 2: And in the sedentary context, as you increase protein, barely
[45:45] Speaker 2: anything happens to strength almost nothing.
[45:47] Speaker 1: So because you know when we for those people who
[45:50] Speaker 1: are sitting around thinking, wow, I'm never going to get
[45:52] Speaker 1: two point two grams of protein per kilogram. But the
[45:55] Speaker 1: assumption that is associated with that two point two which
[45:58] Speaker 1: is at the high end, is probably that you're training,
[46:01] Speaker 1: like Peter a Tia, Yeah, two or three hours a day.
[46:04] Speaker 2: I'd focus on honestly one point two to one point
[46:06] Speaker 2: six grams per kilogram, but get the resistance training in play.
[46:11] Speaker 2: And also that's ideal body weight that should be based
[46:13] Speaker 2: on ideal body weight. So if you're someone that is
[46:15] Speaker 2: twenty kilograms overweight, you do it based on your target
[46:20] Speaker 2: body weight.
[46:21] Speaker 1: Right, Okay, that's important.
[46:22] Speaker 2: Now, that's very important, right because it's relative to the
[46:24] Speaker 2: amount of skeletal muscle you have. Right, So if someone
[46:28] Speaker 2: is carrying a lot of excess body fat, then really
[46:31] Speaker 2: you should be making that calculation based on if they
[46:34] Speaker 2: weigh a hundred killers and their ideal body weights eighty
[46:36] Speaker 2: and that's where they want to get to. You calculate
[46:38] Speaker 2: off eighty.
[46:39] Speaker 1: So it's one sixty plus eighteen so onces seventy twenty
[46:44] Speaker 1: one hundred and seventy six grams.
[46:46] Speaker 2: Sorry if they're eighty kilograms, or if you go one
[46:48] Speaker 2: point six grams perticular on eighty yeah, okay, so if
[46:51] Speaker 2: you go two grams two yeah, one sixty, Yeah, I'll
[46:53] Speaker 2: just make calculation.
[46:56] Speaker 1: But there is an assumption that you're going to be
[46:59] Speaker 1: doing a certain intensity in terms of resistance training, and
[47:03] Speaker 1: also you're probably putting it a VO two max day
[47:06] Speaker 1: and you're probably doing you know, hopefully you're doing some
[47:09] Speaker 1: you know effort worked, you know, in other words, to
[47:11] Speaker 1: get your heart rate up to you know, eighty percent
[47:13] Speaker 1: of your maximum and then you might do you might
[47:17] Speaker 1: do one really hard day, and but then can I
[47:22] Speaker 1: just talk about the protein the sauce product you raise
[47:24] Speaker 1: that source protein. So that's a lot of protein. So
[47:30] Speaker 1: let's say I'm trying today to get in I'll make
[47:35] Speaker 1: it easy too, grams for kilogram, one hundred and seventy
[47:37] Speaker 1: six grams of protein today, which means it doesn't mean
[47:42] Speaker 1: I need one hundred and seventy six gram steak. What's
[47:45] Speaker 1: the general rule of thumbers do in terms of what
[47:48] Speaker 1: I've got to consume? And just just look at meat
[47:50] Speaker 1: for a moment that that type protein as opposed to
[47:53] Speaker 1: protein alternatives, meat alternatives, But just look at meat. So
[47:56] Speaker 1: what are we sort of talking about here? Like how
[47:58] Speaker 1: much meat do I need to get it? What? It's
[48:00] Speaker 1: a good rule of thumb.
[48:02] Speaker 2: Two hundred two, one hundred and fifty grams of red meat.
[48:06] Speaker 2: It's going to give you that sort of thirty grams.
[48:08] Speaker 1: Of thirty that's all. That's a decent sized steak. Yeah,
[48:12] Speaker 1: So like, okay, so let's let's say I mean, I
[48:17] Speaker 1: mean I would eat a two fifty three hundre gram
[48:19] Speaker 1: steak we're going to get Let's say thirty to forty
[48:21] Speaker 1: grams of protein out of that, which means I now
[48:23] Speaker 1: got to get another's one, another one hundred and thirty
[48:29] Speaker 1: five grams of steak, So I've got of protein. So
[48:32] Speaker 1: I've now got to eat pretty much another three of
[48:36] Speaker 1: those steaks. I know, he's got to eat four two
[48:38] Speaker 1: fifty gram steaks. That's impossible. I mean, I can't do that.
[48:42] Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's a lot of you know, depending on
[48:44] Speaker 2: the cart, it's quite a lot of saturated fat, it's
[48:46] Speaker 2: a lot of hemian and so this is where it
[48:49] Speaker 2: coming back to what outcomes of interest, because if you're
[48:54] Speaker 2: just optimizing for protein and muscle, then you might go
[48:57] Speaker 2: down the path of just eating red meat all day.
[48:59] Speaker 1: When some people professes by the way, I mean, I
[49:01] Speaker 1: have seen these kindible stories.
[49:04] Speaker 2: But there's there's really zero long term studies on that
[49:09] Speaker 2: wave eating. So remember back to kind of the risk calculation.
[49:14] Speaker 2: We have a lot of evidence to suggest that that's
[49:16] Speaker 2: increasing risk of colorectal cancer, of cardiovascular disease, perhaps even dementia.
[49:23] Speaker 2: So coming back to what's the person's goal here. If
[49:28] Speaker 2: it's just hypertrophy, then that's that's that's an option. But
[49:31] Speaker 2: if you're wanting to optimize protein intake for more than
[49:36] Speaker 2: just strength, more than just hypertrophy. Hypertrophy, the source matters,
[49:40] Speaker 2: and this is where sources like fatty fish, greek yogurt,
[49:46] Speaker 2: and the plant based protein sources, they're going to be
[49:49] Speaker 2: better from a chronic disease prevention point of view.
[49:52] Speaker 1: So give me, please share with us some of the ideas.
[49:54] Speaker 1: There's some of the plant based protein sources, and I'm
[49:59] Speaker 1: not talking about plant based protein drinks or powders.
[50:02] Speaker 2: So let's say one hundred and seventy five grams of
[50:05] Speaker 2: tempe right off the top of so tempe is fermented,
[50:11] Speaker 2: made from fermented beans, often soy, but it can be
[50:13] Speaker 2: made from chickpea, loopen, et cetera. Off the top of
[50:18] Speaker 2: my head, you get about thirty grams of protein from
[50:21] Speaker 2: one hundred and seventy five grams of tempei, not too
[50:24] Speaker 2: different to a steak, which is about three hundred something galleries.
[50:27] Speaker 2: So you can work that into a meal that's within
[50:29] Speaker 2: most people's calorie budget. You can put that into a
[50:32] Speaker 2: salad and maybe add some whole grains, and you could
[50:35] Speaker 2: end up with a five hundred five point fifty calorie
[50:38] Speaker 2: overall meal that has you know, thirty five forty grams
[50:41] Speaker 2: of protein by the time you calculate protein in those
[50:43] Speaker 2: other foods. So tempe, you have tofu. A lot of
[50:46] Speaker 2: people scared of soy, so we could talk about that
[50:48] Speaker 2: if you want. But tofu is a little bit more
[50:50] Speaker 2: protein dense than tempe, meaning you get slightly more protein
[50:54] Speaker 2: for less calories. Those those would be like the top
[50:57] Speaker 2: two I guess kind of whole food. So lentils and
[51:01] Speaker 2: chickpeas and beans are all containing protein. They're less protein
[51:04] Speaker 2: dense in that they also contain some carbohydrates, so they're
[51:09] Speaker 2: great to have within your meal. But if you were
[51:11] Speaker 2: just eating plant protein, I think you would want to
[51:13] Speaker 2: have tofo or and or tempe in there as well,
[51:17] Speaker 2: so that you can get to that thirty grams of
[51:19] Speaker 2: total protein without having an exorbitant amount of calories and
[51:23] Speaker 2: have a yogurt and Greek yogurt super high in protein.
[51:26] Speaker 1: Why Greek yo you know, what is that? What do
[51:28] Speaker 1: you because a lot of people put Greek yogan on
[51:30] Speaker 1: the things that what are we talking about it? When
[51:32] Speaker 1: it comes to Greek.
[51:32] Speaker 2: Yoga, I mean Greek Greek yogurt is very high in
[51:36] Speaker 2: protein fairly low in fat, so you can find you know,
[51:40] Speaker 2: Greek Greek protein that will provide you know, maybe twenty
[51:45] Speaker 2: grams of protein for like one hundred and twenty calories.
[51:48] Speaker 1: That's pretty.
[51:50] Speaker 2: So you could have you know, two hundred and fifty
[51:53] Speaker 2: calories of Greek yogurt in the morning and it's forty
[51:55] Speaker 2: grams of protein right with with some berries and you know,
[51:59] Speaker 2: maybe a little bit of boats and that's a great breakfast.
[52:02] Speaker 1: Yeah, you're on your way.
[52:03] Speaker 2: You're on your way. And then most people, to be honest,
[52:06] Speaker 2: are adding in a protein shake of some variety throughout
[52:09] Speaker 2: the day simply because see, because you get older, your
[52:12] Speaker 2: appetite tends to get a little lower.
[52:13] Speaker 1: Can you explain that? Because what happens to appatitis we
[52:17] Speaker 1: get older.
[52:18] Speaker 2: Some of it is what is older to by the way,
[52:20] Speaker 2: some of it. I mean, I consider myself older, so
[52:23] Speaker 2: I'm nearly forty.
[52:25] Speaker 1: Come on, I wish this well.
[52:30] Speaker 2: I'd love to take your finance for a day.
[52:33] Speaker 1: Yeah, but I got limited years. You got years for money.
[52:37] Speaker 1: I don't know. I think it takes years every day.
[52:41] Speaker 2: So I think some of it is probably explained by
[52:44] Speaker 2: living a little more sedentury, doing a little bit less movement,
[52:48] Speaker 2: which which affects appetite. People tend to, yeah, are tending
[52:57] Speaker 2: to reduce their total chloric intake as they age, particularly
[53:01] Speaker 2: as they get over sixty or seventy years of age.
[53:04] Speaker 1: Yeah, that's I find it quite fascinating that though, that
[53:07] Speaker 1: because our appetite is lower, but we might be doing
[53:11] Speaker 1: resistance workout to say, we're over fifty, we ten because
[53:17] Speaker 1: we don't have an apatite. We think we're not hungry,
[53:19] Speaker 1: I'm not going to eat, but therefore we start to
[53:21] Speaker 1: starve ourselves at the right amount of protein and carbs
[53:23] Speaker 1: for that matter too, and other things that we need
[53:25] Speaker 1: to get in a proper diet. So you just said,
[53:31] Speaker 1: because we're not hungry, we probably don't feel like another
[53:33] Speaker 1: piece of fish, or another piece of chicken or steak.
[53:36] Speaker 1: We don't feel like having any more chickpeas or ten
[53:38] Speaker 1: beer or other things great yoga for that matter. And
[53:43] Speaker 1: then you mentioned protein powder. Let's say a protein supplement
[53:48] Speaker 1: which I use, And I will say straight up that
[53:53] Speaker 1: I do put between five and ten grams of creating
[53:58] Speaker 1: in that drink myself, because I'm you know, I don't
[54:01] Speaker 1: know whether creeds and it works or not. But I'm
[54:03] Speaker 1: not been punching the head enough in my life to
[54:06] Speaker 1: make get worried about my own brain. So I just think, well,
[54:09] Speaker 1: if it works, it works, and it doesn't. As you
[54:11] Speaker 1: said earlier, it doesn't seem to be any downside associated
[54:14] Speaker 1: with that amount. Maybe more than that there could be,
[54:16] Speaker 1: But I'm not doing to build muscle. I'm doing more
[54:19] Speaker 1: for the nutritional value potentially, at least what everybody's saying.
[54:23] Speaker 1: But where what about the sourcing of that protein, that
[54:26] Speaker 1: protein supplement, the powder? I mean, how do I know
[54:29] Speaker 1: if I'm getting you know, let's call let's just look
[54:33] Speaker 1: at Way Protein for start. How do I know if
[54:35] Speaker 1: I'm getting good quality Way Protein?
[54:39] Speaker 2: So how do you know if you're geting good quality something?
[54:43] Speaker 1: To you?
[54:43] Speaker 2: I really really you need you need a brand that's
[54:46] Speaker 2: providing transparency. Yes, the supplement industry is it's.
[54:50] Speaker 3: Full of cowboys, out of control, totally the and that's
[54:55] Speaker 3: why certifications like in America, the NSF or over heref
[54:59] Speaker 3: NS is a certification in America, and there's NSF Sport now.
[55:04] Speaker 2: And you'll see certain brands like Momentus will use that.
[55:07] Speaker 2: I use that brand sometimes use Momentus. I formulated a
[55:11] Speaker 2: product thirty eight terror as the name of the company, and.
[55:14] Speaker 1: I don't know, I try that.
[55:15] Speaker 2: You tried it, Yeah, I've tried it.
[55:16] Speaker 1: Yeah, I've had it.
[55:18] Speaker 2: So that's like a daily multivitamin, fuller gut microbiome that's
[55:22] Speaker 2: NSF certified. And so you'll see more and more brands
[55:25] Speaker 2: going down this route of getting NSF certified, and it's
[55:27] Speaker 2: because consumers want transparency because there's been so many cases
[55:31] Speaker 2: where what's in the product is not what's on the label.
[55:36] Speaker 2: Either they're not using the kind of clinically proven dose
[55:40] Speaker 2: of an expensive ingredient, they've watered it down, or there's
[55:44] Speaker 2: these other contaminants or heavy metals things that we don't
[55:48] Speaker 2: want to be consuming regularly in the product. So NSF
[55:51] Speaker 2: is like a third party organization. Essentially, every single batch
[55:55] Speaker 2: if you see NSF, every single batch not that the
[56:00] Speaker 2: manufacturer has to be NSF licensed, so they have to
[56:02] Speaker 2: be set up in a way that is compliant with
[56:05] Speaker 2: NSF to make sure they're not getting cross contamination of
[56:08] Speaker 2: ingredients and every every final product is sent off for
[56:14] Speaker 2: third party testing. And this is important because often brands
[56:18] Speaker 2: they just reply, they just rely on the certificate of
[56:22] Speaker 2: analysis from the individual suppliers, and those certificate of analyses
[56:27] Speaker 2: are often not done on every single batch.
[56:31] Speaker 1: You need to explain a batch though, So okay, so
[56:33] Speaker 1: that doesn't mean every tin of it. That means the
[56:36] Speaker 1: batch that those five hundred tins came from.
[56:39] Speaker 2: So how supplement Yeah, a company would manufacture their goods
[56:42] Speaker 2: is they'd run a five hundred kilogram or one ton blend, right,
[56:46] Speaker 2: So they put all the raw ingredients into that, and
[56:49] Speaker 2: errors could be made. The manufacturer could put the wrong
[56:52] Speaker 2: ingredient in someone else's. Maybe they've got an ingredient from
[56:55] Speaker 2: a supplier that was contaminated has some type salmon ala
[57:01] Speaker 2: heavy metals because the supplier was unable to get enough supply,
[57:07] Speaker 2: so they went and sourced it from somewhere else. So
[57:10] Speaker 2: all these quality issues can arise and NSF What that
[57:14] Speaker 2: does is it says, okay, well, once that batch comes
[57:17] Speaker 2: off the production.
[57:17] Speaker 1: There one ton batch once, I'm going to get put
[57:20] Speaker 1: into kilogram tubs.
[57:22] Speaker 2: Yep, and say you've got ten ingredients in your blend yep. Okay,
[57:25] Speaker 2: you've blended it all up. Now we're going to send
[57:28] Speaker 2: that off and get that tested, and we're going to
[57:29] Speaker 2: get it tested for anything that could be harmful. We'll
[57:32] Speaker 2: test it for pesticide levels, heavy metals, all of these things.
[57:36] Speaker 2: And in the case of NSF certified for sport, it's
[57:39] Speaker 2: testing for any performance enhancing drugs because it has been
[57:44] Speaker 2: it has occurred where professional athletes have been taking it
[57:47] Speaker 2: supplement and they didn't realize and they failed doping tests.
[57:50] Speaker 2: So in America, if you're in the MLB or NBA
[57:55] Speaker 2: or NFL, you can only take NSF certified for sport supplements.
[58:01] Speaker 2: And I think just consumers in general, and this is
[58:03] Speaker 2: something I advocate for. If you're taking a supplement and
[58:07] Speaker 2: you've been taking it for a year or two or more,
[58:11] Speaker 2: protein supplement creating, whatever it is, email the company and
[58:15] Speaker 2: ask for third party testing because they should have done it,
[58:19] Speaker 2: and they should be willing to be transparent to show
[58:21] Speaker 2: it with to share that information with you. And I
[58:24] Speaker 2: do think what's going to happen now, So like on
[58:26] Speaker 2: thirty eight Terror's website, for example, you can put the batch,
[58:30] Speaker 2: enter the batch number in, and you get the third
[58:32] Speaker 2: party testing results for that batch. And I think that's
[58:35] Speaker 2: where we're going. I think people are starting to realize
[58:38] Speaker 2: that the supplement industry at large is a little bit cowboyish.
[58:43] Speaker 1: What about here in Australia, NSF's American.
[58:45] Speaker 2: So hastahasta is the equivalent to NSF right here in Australia.
[58:52] Speaker 2: That is third party doing third party testing and is
[58:55] Speaker 2: like the kind of equivalent trusted certification for professional athletes.
[59:00] Speaker 1: And do to your knowledge, do any supplement companies here
[59:06] Speaker 1: or suppliers here do they generally comply with this? I mean,
[59:09] Speaker 1: do they have to comply with it or don't have
[59:10] Speaker 1: to come over?
[59:10] Speaker 2: They have to just adds additional costs, right, But I
[59:14] Speaker 2: think because consumers are becoming more and more savvy, brands
[59:18] Speaker 2: are realizing that like a momentous in America is leading
[59:20] Speaker 2: the way clearly, right, They've done enormous amounts of pr
[59:23] Speaker 2: about NSF certification and so what's happening is those companies
[59:28] Speaker 2: that are kind of paving the way, and you'll start
[59:30] Speaker 2: to see other brands realize that, yeah, this cost money.
[59:33] Speaker 2: You have to pay, you know, a few thousand dollars
[59:35] Speaker 2: every single batch that you run to do it. But
[59:39] Speaker 2: it's something that you can use in marketing. It's a
[59:41] Speaker 2: unique selling point. And at the end of the day,
[59:44] Speaker 2: you you want your you want trust and what better
[59:48] Speaker 2: way to build trust with the consumer to say, hey,
[59:50] Speaker 2: we've got nothing to hide, here's our third party.
[59:52] Speaker 1: And he's blast. If you want something quality, this is
[59:54] Speaker 1: what you pay for it. Right, So it would just
[59:58] Speaker 1: if I don't mind, if you don't mind me asking
[59:59] Speaker 1: someone is hars to as robust and as rigorous as
[1:00:05] Speaker 1: pretty much? Yeah, And is that an Australian entity or.
[1:00:08] Speaker 2: An Australian government Australian organization. I don't think it's a
[1:00:11] Speaker 2: government owned.
[1:00:12] Speaker 1: Right, so, but it's an independent certification organization like you
[1:00:16] Speaker 1: just goes and batch tests everything that that you pay for.
[1:00:20] Speaker 2: Right and now they'll if you fail their test, they'll
[1:00:23] Speaker 2: send it back saying it's failed and you can't use
[1:00:26] Speaker 2: that certain Yeah.
[1:00:27] Speaker 1: We can't say it with a certification. And then in
[1:00:29] Speaker 1: terms of where stuff comes from, so let's call it
[1:00:34] Speaker 1: a look at way protein and well look at let's
[1:00:37] Speaker 1: we also look at vegetable based produce like pea protein.
[1:00:40] Speaker 1: For example, in Australia, do we produce enough way and
[1:00:43] Speaker 1: or pea protein to supply the market our market or
[1:00:50] Speaker 1: do we have to import that stuff from somewhere.
[1:00:52] Speaker 2: A lot of it's important and that can come from
[1:00:54] Speaker 2: China is a big supplier Europe as well. For Pea protein,
[1:00:59] Speaker 2: you find brands like new Zest source European proteins better
[1:01:04] Speaker 2: or worse prominence. I don't know exactly, so again here
[1:01:11] Speaker 2: I'm just going off memory. I haven't looked at this recently,
[1:01:14] Speaker 2: but my understanding is that European Pea protein has a
[1:01:18] Speaker 2: little bit lower heavy metal content than Chinese what's acceptab
[1:01:22] Speaker 2: by heavy metal, but both fall within the acceptable level.
[1:01:26] Speaker 1: So there's a level of which an sir or you know,
[1:01:29] Speaker 1: has to will say, well, that's acceptable. Correct, And when
[1:01:32] Speaker 1: you say heavy metal, we're talking about lead, ca, cadman,
[1:01:35] Speaker 1: all security things that are probably in the soil.
[1:01:38] Speaker 2: Yeah. And I would say for people so they're not
[1:01:40] Speaker 2: feeling really scared of protein here is that generally the
[1:01:46] Speaker 2: tests that have looked at the heavy metal content of
[1:01:48] Speaker 2: protein that the levels are well within the safe tolerable limit.
[1:01:53] Speaker 2: There's heavy metals in pretty much all the food that
[1:01:55] Speaker 2: we consume, and if you're having one or two serves
[1:01:57] Speaker 2: of this to day, it doesn't appear to be anywhere
[1:02:00] Speaker 2: near a level where it would be toxic or harmful.
[1:02:03] Speaker 1: That's assuming you've got the has to tag on it
[1:02:05] Speaker 1: or you've got the NSF tag on it, because you know,
[1:02:06] Speaker 1: you could actually be buying a protein shake that hasn't
[1:02:10] Speaker 1: been batch tested and it could have something irregularly high,
[1:02:14] Speaker 1: which is the reason why you should chase down those
[1:02:16] Speaker 1: products with these certifications.
[1:02:19] Speaker 2: I think you should. I'm sort of becoming more and
[1:02:23] Speaker 2: more of the view that anything you're taking chronically chronically chronically,
[1:02:27] Speaker 2: like you're taking you could be taking the protein for
[1:02:30] Speaker 2: two three decades, so you've got chronic exposure to that.
[1:02:33] Speaker 2: Ye well, and you want to sit and forget find
[1:02:36] Speaker 2: your brand that you trust, so it's a once off.
[1:02:38] Speaker 2: You don't have to be going out and doing this
[1:02:40] Speaker 2: every asking for this every single time you buy protein
[1:02:44] Speaker 2: from the same brand. You might do it a few times,
[1:02:46] Speaker 2: but once you find brands that you trust, then it's
[1:02:51] Speaker 2: not something you have to keep focusing on. I would
[1:02:53] Speaker 2: do this with olive oil as well. I just did
[1:02:55] Speaker 2: a forty five minute deep dive on olive oil and
[1:02:58] Speaker 2: one of the things that that really shocked me was
[1:03:01] Speaker 2: how much olive oil is adulted.
[1:03:04] Speaker 1: Yeah, we did it. We've we've we've also done episode
[1:03:06] Speaker 1: we haven't released yet. But similarly, because we've got a
[1:03:08] Speaker 1: professor down who does testing of olive oils, and man,
[1:03:12] Speaker 1: it's crazy, especially the olive oil that sits at the
[1:03:16] Speaker 1: bottom of the that's called it the batch, which they
[1:03:19] Speaker 1: rinse with various agents chemical agents to release the olive
[1:03:24] Speaker 1: oil out of the shit that sits in the bottom.
[1:03:26] Speaker 1: Then they have to wash the the let's call it,
[1:03:30] Speaker 1: the contaminants off and then they put that in to
[1:03:33] Speaker 1: mix that in with the olive oil that you know,
[1:03:35] Speaker 1: they're calling virgin olive oil extra virginal. It's crazy, especially
[1:03:38] Speaker 1: some of the stuff come out of Europe. It's a
[1:03:40] Speaker 1: bit scary.
[1:03:41] Speaker 2: Yeah, be interested to listen to that episode in terms
[1:03:44] Speaker 2: of how he advised people to kind of navigate that
[1:03:47] Speaker 2: he didn't give.
[1:03:48] Speaker 1: We didn't largely he's saying that Australian processes are probably
[1:03:52] Speaker 1: pretty good in Australia. It's it's sort of the cowboys
[1:03:57] Speaker 1: are sort of existing in some of our better known
[1:03:59] Speaker 1: European countries where the controls aren't as good. But he
[1:04:05] Speaker 1: actually did it. He actually did a test rewalk through
[1:04:09] Speaker 1: let's call it, one of the big retailers and just
[1:04:11] Speaker 1: selected things off the shelf, well known brands, and the
[1:04:15] Speaker 1: Australian ones seemed to have come out better than on
[1:04:18] Speaker 1: average bettering.
[1:04:20] Speaker 2: Yeah. I looked at a US report where they took
[1:04:25] Speaker 2: all these popular extra virgin oils in the US and
[1:04:29] Speaker 2: tested them, and there was like five things they were
[1:04:31] Speaker 2: testing for that kind of indicated quality, very scientific things
[1:04:34] Speaker 2: like peroxide value and fatty acids, polyfennels, all this stuff,
[1:04:39] Speaker 2: and they were looking to see, like do these meet
[1:04:42] Speaker 2: the criteria of extra virgin olive oil? And many of
[1:04:45] Speaker 2: them failed. A couple of them that were like the
[1:04:48] Speaker 2: most expensive, they actually said were not fit for human consumption.
[1:04:51] Speaker 1: WHOA right?
[1:04:54] Speaker 2: There were some that did meet the criteria, so I
[1:04:56] Speaker 2: recommended that, which was helpful for American consumers. But I've
[1:04:58] Speaker 2: had a lot of Australians and say, you know, what,
[1:05:01] Speaker 2: what do we do? But I guess I think that's
[1:05:05] Speaker 2: reassuring to know at least the starting point is to
[1:05:07] Speaker 2: find an Australian brand.
[1:05:08] Speaker 1: We or I might have a bit of fun. Why
[1:05:10] Speaker 1: don't we do a co lab and we'll go and
[1:05:11] Speaker 1: get this guy. We will go, we'll walk, maybe walking,
[1:05:15] Speaker 1: we won't identify where we're getting it from, but we'll
[1:05:17] Speaker 1: go and we will do blind testing. We're just go
[1:05:19] Speaker 1: and get a dozen olive oils and we'll send it down.
[1:05:21] Speaker 1: There's a place in Wagger I think it's Wga. Yeah,
[1:05:24] Speaker 1: that actually is the major testing place for Australian oils,
[1:05:28] Speaker 1: just generally all oils, you know, olive oils and anything
[1:05:31] Speaker 1: else that we consume. And we might even just go
[1:05:34] Speaker 1: down there. You do that, it'd be fun and and
[1:05:37] Speaker 1: we won't say who's good or bad, but we'll just
[1:05:40] Speaker 1: blind test. We might we might taste them and all
[1:05:42] Speaker 1: that sort of stuff. He said to me, as a
[1:05:44] Speaker 1: rule of thumb, what what's our guy's name begin is
[1:05:47] Speaker 1: professor what's his name Begain, Professor Ride Mailer, that's it.
[1:05:52] Speaker 1: And he came town from Newcastle and this is his game,
[1:05:55] Speaker 1: that's what he does. And he said to me, probably
[1:06:01] Speaker 1: the best rule of thumb is, don't look for Exvergon.
[1:06:03] Speaker 1: Look for when it says on the label robust and
[1:06:08] Speaker 1: the Greeks where I you know, like in our village,
[1:06:10] Speaker 1: are the really good olive oils that are good for
[1:06:12] Speaker 1: you physically and in every way. The village people in
[1:06:17] Speaker 1: the village, I should say, generally say it's a two
[1:06:20] Speaker 1: cough olive oil. So it's so robust that makes you
[1:06:23] Speaker 1: cough twice it's a bit peppery, very peppery. So what
[1:06:27] Speaker 1: we tend to see a lot is that they they
[1:06:31] Speaker 1: titrate the robustness down to taste what people will like
[1:06:37] Speaker 1: the taste of as opposed to if you're looking to
[1:06:39] Speaker 1: have olive oil as let's call it a medicine.
[1:06:41] Speaker 2: Or something, the health that's from the polypheno.
[1:06:43] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[1:06:43] Speaker 1: Yeah, so maybe you put the tasty ones, you know,
[1:06:47] Speaker 1: the less robust ones on your salad. But if you
[1:06:49] Speaker 1: want to do if you want to have two tablespoons
[1:06:51] Speaker 1: a day, then try and have the more robust one
[1:06:55] Speaker 1: so you can do whatever you like, have those other
[1:06:57] Speaker 1: ones on it as long as it doesn't have contaminants
[1:06:59] Speaker 1: and just you know, if you want to put on
[1:07:01] Speaker 1: your salad, same point cooking with it because of the
[1:07:04] Speaker 1: smoke value.
[1:07:05] Speaker 2: Yeah, I think we should do that. I think it
[1:07:06] Speaker 2: would cool. I think it would be helpful for people
[1:07:09] Speaker 2: to know, maybe not the ones that failed, but like
[1:07:12] Speaker 2: what's the best value in Australia for what you can
[1:07:16] Speaker 2: buy that would be the highest quality extraversion olive oil,
[1:07:20] Speaker 2: any of these.
[1:07:20] Speaker 1: I don't know if you probers, but they used to
[1:07:22] Speaker 1: be an ad on radio. I think it was. They
[1:07:25] Speaker 1: say oils ain't oils, and we need to find out
[1:07:28] Speaker 1: which ones ain't the oils that you know. But they'd
[1:07:31] Speaker 1: be fine. Go down to a proper place where they
[1:07:33] Speaker 1: do proper testing, and that's all they do. That's their deal.
[1:07:37] Speaker 1: This place in a Wogo. I can't remember the name
[1:07:38] Speaker 1: of the joint. Is our guys or the sam will
[1:07:41] Speaker 1: be able to find out with the name of places.
[1:07:42] Speaker 1: But go down there and let's film it and let's
[1:07:44] Speaker 1: look at you bring some oils and I'll bring them
[1:07:46] Speaker 1: down as well, and.
[1:07:47] Speaker 2: We can see if our own personal experience sensory test
[1:07:50] Speaker 2: matches the totally.
[1:07:52] Speaker 1: But we won't reveal who they are because someone's going
[1:07:54] Speaker 1: to come out it's really good, and some are going
[1:07:56] Speaker 1: to come out so good. But you know, it's up
[1:07:57] Speaker 1: to Australians generally speaking, to do their own searching. I
[1:08:00] Speaker 1: mean it, just as I might talk to you about
[1:08:03] Speaker 1: something that just came into my mind. Brian Johnson has
[1:08:07] Speaker 1: released his own olive oil. You know, Brian Johnson, the leak.
[1:08:11] Speaker 1: He's a bit of a human guinea pig, to be
[1:08:13] Speaker 1: honest with you, and he's a human experiment in what
[1:08:17] Speaker 1: might be what he considers not dying. I mean I'm
[1:08:22] Speaker 1: less ambitious. I just want to lift to one hundred
[1:08:24] Speaker 1: or try. I actually don't want to lift hundred. I
[1:08:26] Speaker 1: want to try to see what it takes to live
[1:08:27] Speaker 1: on a hundred. That's my whole game. Who knows. I mean,
[1:08:30] Speaker 1: I get struck down and anything could happen, but I
[1:08:33] Speaker 1: want to try. It's a process of trying to live
[1:08:35] Speaker 1: on a hundred. But he's actually saying he doesn't want
[1:08:37] Speaker 1: to die. But he's released an olive oil. Be interesting
[1:08:40] Speaker 1: to test his olive oil, and we won't say who
[1:08:43] Speaker 1: comes out who doesn't come out well, but the interesting
[1:08:45] Speaker 1: to test his olive oil relative to all the other
[1:08:47] Speaker 1: ones too.
[1:08:47] Speaker 2: I can tell you. You can tell you've done it if
[1:08:49] Speaker 2: you want to.
[1:08:50] Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[1:08:51] Speaker 2: Let me And I know Brian not well, but I
[1:08:55] Speaker 2: have been to his house once for dinner, and when
[1:08:58] Speaker 2: I was doing the olive oil episode, I reached out
[1:09:00] Speaker 2: to him and asked him if he would send me
[1:09:03] Speaker 2: his third party lab test results, because there are certain
[1:09:06] Speaker 2: things on the lab results you can look at that
[1:09:10] Speaker 2: give you a fair idea as to is this extravergent?
[1:09:12] Speaker 2: Has it been diluted? Stuff? Is that robust and high quality?
[1:09:16] Speaker 2: Because of polyphenol count, and he certainly meets all that criteria.
[1:09:20] Speaker 2: He does, so he's done a very good job. It's
[1:09:22] Speaker 2: very expensive. It's like five times.
[1:09:24] Speaker 1: Yeah, it's ninety bucks. I can't remember, is it ninety
[1:09:27] Speaker 1: bucks of bottles and I looked into it.
[1:09:29] Speaker 2: It's very expensive per serve. But I have no doubt
[1:09:32] Speaker 2: based on those lab test results that it is a
[1:09:34] Speaker 2: high quality olive. Maybe he doesn't cut any corners on them.
[1:09:37] Speaker 1: Maybe you should explain that, Simon. He's not saying. He's
[1:09:41] Speaker 1: not suggesting you buy his olive or to sprinkle all
[1:09:43] Speaker 1: over your salad. He's sort of saying that if you
[1:09:46] Speaker 1: need two tablespoons, if that's the recommended dose of high
[1:09:49] Speaker 1: quality olive oil per day, then that's where he's going
[1:09:52] Speaker 1: to be. It's expensive because you can get your two
[1:09:55] Speaker 1: tablespoons from his bottle to get.
[1:09:57] Speaker 2: The right He almost sees olive oil as like a medicine.
[1:10:01] Speaker 2: It's like a therapeutic kind of dose. And most of
[1:10:03] Speaker 2: the literature looking at olive oil suggests that extra virgin
[1:10:06] Speaker 2: olive oil has more benefits than regular olive oil, and
[1:10:11] Speaker 2: the kind of optimal intake is around that two tablespoons
[1:10:14] Speaker 2: a day, So we're not talking about dumping, you know,
[1:10:18] Speaker 2: five ten tablespoons a day into your food, because that's
[1:10:20] Speaker 2: an exorbitant amount of calories, a lot of fat. Right,
[1:10:22] Speaker 2: So you're trying. What you're trying to do with that
[1:10:24] Speaker 2: high quality extraversion olive oil is yeah, you're going to
[1:10:27] Speaker 2: get some calories, but you're getting a really high dose
[1:10:29] Speaker 2: of polyphenols.
[1:10:29] Speaker 1: Yeah, great nutrition, nutritional values, very very high. So my
[1:10:35] Speaker 1: guys have been putting up a little sign because you
[1:10:38] Speaker 1: know the young guys, and they want to know the
[1:10:40] Speaker 1: answer to this. Put it up, Come on, they put
[1:10:42] Speaker 1: it up. Managing he wants to talk about and that's
[1:10:47] Speaker 1: our producer. He wants to talk about manage managing your
[1:10:51] Speaker 1: stress when you work hard. So what is the literature
[1:10:56] Speaker 1: saying about that in terms of I mean, I guess
[1:10:59] Speaker 1: it comes down to sleep, exercise, nutrition again and also
[1:11:03] Speaker 1: your community. But what what what do? What would you
[1:11:05] Speaker 1: say about that?
[1:11:06] Speaker 2: Firstly, what I would say is, remember at the beginning
[1:11:08] Speaker 2: I talked about stepping outside of the lane. This is
[1:11:11] Speaker 2: this is me going a little bit outside of my
[1:11:14] Speaker 2: primary lane. But I can tell you what I do
[1:11:16] Speaker 2: and what the resource do you do? The research that
[1:11:18] Speaker 2: I've read and I'm sure there's a psychologist or psychiatrist
[1:11:22] Speaker 2: that can that can build on this.
[1:11:25] Speaker 1: You're not talking about the psychology, but you're talking about
[1:11:27] Speaker 1: the nutritional and the physicality.
[1:11:29] Speaker 2: Of and my lifestyle. What do I do to manage stress? Right? So,
[1:11:32] Speaker 2: I mean there's a great body of research this is
[1:11:35] Speaker 2: outside of nutrition looking at the benefit of having quality
[1:11:40] Speaker 2: relationships and helping buffer stress. So people people that have
[1:11:46] Speaker 2: quality relationships, and when when I think of a quality relationship,
[1:11:50] Speaker 2: I think about who are the people that you can
[1:11:54] Speaker 2: kind of surround yourself with where you can be your
[1:11:57] Speaker 2: absolute self. You can take off the no one's judging you,
[1:12:01] Speaker 2: No one's judging you, there's no shame as guilt. You
[1:12:03] Speaker 2: can you can speak about the things that are, you
[1:12:05] Speaker 2: can get things off your chest. You can help them.
[1:12:09] Speaker 2: There's there's it's a it's a mutually beneficial connection where
[1:12:14] Speaker 2: you can talk about things maybe that are causing stress
[1:12:19] Speaker 2: and that person you trust them enough to share that.
[1:12:23] Speaker 2: Which is this is I think a lost a little
[1:12:26] Speaker 2: bit less intuitive for men often certainly has been in
[1:12:30] Speaker 2: my experience differently for my general and and that person
[1:12:35] Speaker 2: they might be able to help you, They might be
[1:12:37] Speaker 2: able to offer a different perspective, but also there's benefit
[1:12:40] Speaker 2: in them just listening and you're just feeling like you're understood.
[1:12:45] Speaker 1: There's you're not looking for a solution.
[1:12:48] Speaker 2: No, and you can There's some really interesting research in
[1:12:50] Speaker 2: this space, some that that kind of shocked me. They
[1:12:54] Speaker 2: go dates back years ago where they looked at they
[1:12:58] Speaker 2: basically punctured people's arms right to create a wound, and
[1:13:04] Speaker 2: they were looking at how long it took for that
[1:13:06] Speaker 2: wound to heal. And they had already put people into
[1:13:11] Speaker 2: categories based on whether they had healthy relationships in their life,
[1:13:16] Speaker 2: or whether they had relationships with a lot of tension
[1:13:19] Speaker 2: and a lot of unresolved conflict, or in one category,
[1:13:24] Speaker 2: relationships that were unilateral. So caregivers right where they were
[1:13:28] Speaker 2: looking after often sick people they've got nothing back so
[1:13:31] Speaker 2: to speak. Yeah, you know, people that were not in
[1:13:34] Speaker 2: a position to give back, not through any fault of
[1:13:37] Speaker 2: their own, but they were often disabled or very sick.
[1:13:40] Speaker 2: And on average in this study, it took about five
[1:13:43] Speaker 2: weeks for the wound to heal, but people who had
[1:13:46] Speaker 2: tension filled relationships, you know, quote unquote toxic relationships, it
[1:13:51] Speaker 2: took an extra seven to ten days to heal and caregivers,
[1:13:54] Speaker 2: it took even longer to heal right, And there's been
[1:13:59] Speaker 2: a lot of research done since then to kind of
[1:14:01] Speaker 2: understand the mechanisms. But when you study the biology of
[1:14:07] Speaker 2: people and you look at things like inflammation and levels
[1:14:10] Speaker 2: of oxytocin and neurotransmitters that make us feel good, these
[1:14:16] Speaker 2: are different in people depending on the relationships they have
[1:14:19] Speaker 2: in their life. So people that have really good support
[1:14:22] Speaker 2: in their works, healthy relationships, they have less chronic inflammation,
[1:14:27] Speaker 2: they have higher levels of these neurotransmitters that help them
[1:14:30] Speaker 2: feel good. And when you.
[1:14:34] Speaker 1: Say neuro transmitters, you mean those chemicals.
[1:14:36] Speaker 2: Dopamine, serotonin, oxytocin. These are things that give us motivation,
[1:14:42] Speaker 2: drive happiness with relationship, feel good and just to kind
[1:14:49] Speaker 2: of tie the loop back to kind of work life stress,
[1:14:52] Speaker 2: there's other research that's that's looked at pain and perceived
[1:15:00] Speaker 2: pain and perceived stress. And this is really really interesting
[1:15:04] Speaker 2: and important work where they put humans into an MRI
[1:15:10] Speaker 2: functional MRI scanner and was scanning their brain and subjected
[1:15:13] Speaker 2: them to pain. So imagine like pin pricking into their arm,
[1:15:18] Speaker 2: and they had different conditions, one where that person's just
[1:15:20] Speaker 2: on their own how much pain do you feel. Then
[1:15:24] Speaker 2: the next is like that person is subjected to the
[1:15:27] Speaker 2: same sensory input, but someone's holding their hand a stranger.
[1:15:32] Speaker 1: They want to see what lights up and doesn't wide up.
[1:15:34] Speaker 2: They're looking at the areas of the brain that perceive pain,
[1:15:37] Speaker 2: how active are they. And then they look at a
[1:15:40] Speaker 2: third condition where someone you love, maybe it's your daughter
[1:15:44] Speaker 2: or son, or your partner, your dad, your mum, someone
[1:15:48] Speaker 2: you loves holding your hand, and what you see is
[1:15:51] Speaker 2: that area of the brain that perceives pain lights up
[1:15:53] Speaker 2: most when no one's holding your hand. It lights up
[1:15:58] Speaker 2: a little bit less when holding your hand, and it's
[1:16:02] Speaker 2: least active when someone that you love is holding your hand.
[1:16:07] Speaker 2: And then that research has been kind of built upon
[1:16:11] Speaker 2: by whole body of research showing that people who work
[1:16:18] Speaker 2: in a stressful environment and have a lot of sort
[1:16:21] Speaker 2: of chronic stress from whatever business activity they have, they
[1:16:25] Speaker 2: actually perceive in their life that they have less stress
[1:16:29] Speaker 2: if they have healthy relationships. Right, So, if you're someone
[1:16:36] Speaker 2: that's working in a business and your goal is to
[1:16:41] Speaker 2: be a good leader, to make good decisions, to be
[1:16:46] Speaker 2: less irritable, and all these things that we think you
[1:16:49] Speaker 2: are really important to being a productive person, within business,
[1:16:53] Speaker 2: then you should be thinking about relationships as a way
[1:16:58] Speaker 2: to damp in and buffer that stress and actually improve
[1:17:02] Speaker 2: your productivity within the workplace. So I'm not sure if
[1:17:07] Speaker 2: I fully answer.
[1:17:08] Speaker 1: No, no, you do, and I might just extrapolate something because
[1:17:10] Speaker 1: I think it's important. Reasoning behind you drawing an analogy
[1:17:18] Speaker 1: with the cut to the arm and the time it
[1:17:23] Speaker 1: takes for that to heal, is that that's effectively just
[1:17:26] Speaker 1: a stress. You might have an emotional stress, a mental stress,
[1:17:30] Speaker 1: or that's a physical stress. And what you said is
[1:17:34] Speaker 1: that the people who had the close relationships they healed
[1:17:37] Speaker 1: at a fast right than the other two categories. And
[1:17:40] Speaker 1: that's an extrapolation, but it's about stress. Stress could be mental,
[1:17:43] Speaker 1: it could be physical. You might have injured yourself. Whatever
[1:17:46] Speaker 1: the point is in all those stressful situations, it's relationships
[1:17:51] Speaker 1: that help you heal or deal with those stresses at
[1:17:55] Speaker 1: a faster rate. Doesn't mean you won't You're not going
[1:17:57] Speaker 1: to avoid stress.
[1:17:59] Speaker 2: You're not going to avoid the stress, but you're going
[1:18:00] Speaker 2: to be more resilient how well you deal with it,
[1:18:02] Speaker 2: so you'll be better at recovering you. We know that
[1:18:07] Speaker 2: people but are better able to deal with stress have
[1:18:10] Speaker 2: lower risk of infection, or when they get an infection,
[1:18:13] Speaker 2: they heal quicker. So it's about resilience, you know.
[1:18:17] Speaker 1: I must be knowing something. I'm always been a quick
[1:18:19] Speaker 1: fast here. I'm happy about it. I'm actually I feel
[1:18:22] Speaker 1: good about that. Now you've made me think of so well, Mark,
[1:18:24] Speaker 1: there's something going on there unless I have some genetic
[1:18:27] Speaker 1: predisposition to heal fast. And maybe I've got to think
[1:18:29] Speaker 1: my mom and dad for that.
[1:18:30] Speaker 2: And the other bit that I would just add there
[1:18:33] Speaker 2: is there's some other fantastic research looking at ways to
[1:18:38] Speaker 2: buffer stress, and one of the big ones is helping
[1:18:40] Speaker 2: other people. Yeah, being of service.
[1:18:42] Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's right. And it's funny. I was
[1:18:45] Speaker 1: listening to a podcast the other day about leadership and
[1:18:51] Speaker 1: that individual who's the next Navy seal. But we're talking
[1:18:54] Speaker 1: about leadership. He's also a business. But leadership in business
[1:18:58] Speaker 1: is not about telling people to do but it's about
[1:19:02] Speaker 1: having relationships within your business. He didn't talk about outside
[1:19:05] Speaker 1: of the business, but having relationships within your business. And
[1:19:09] Speaker 1: you know, having the ability to and that comes down
[1:19:11] Speaker 1: to how you speak to people, and you know your language,
[1:19:15] Speaker 1: the speed it which is talk. You know how you
[1:19:18] Speaker 1: interact with individuals and maybe just think because Semi, our producer,
[1:19:23] Speaker 1: just asked me the question. I'm just wondering whether or
[1:19:25] Speaker 1: not if I might be stressing him out more recently
[1:19:29] Speaker 1: because I because I did actually send him a text
[1:19:31] Speaker 1: yesterday about something which I was just challenging, an idea
[1:19:36] Speaker 1: and an idea of the team in here, and and
[1:19:41] Speaker 1: I thought I'd actually listened to that podcast, and I
[1:19:44] Speaker 1: thought long and hard about the language I used in
[1:19:47] Speaker 1: relation to how I put it to them, long and hard.
[1:19:50] Speaker 1: I put it to him an email or a text.
[1:19:51] Speaker 1: I can't remember, but Sam remember, And it makes sense.
[1:19:56] Speaker 1: You've got to have and by the way, work relationships
[1:19:58] Speaker 1: are important to it's not just your loved one, your
[1:20:01] Speaker 1: work relationships to.
[1:20:02] Speaker 2: I like the fact that you had the awareness to
[1:20:04] Speaker 2: pause on that, and obviously you have the relationship where
[1:20:08] Speaker 2: you're feeling comfortable to be able to express those things.
[1:20:11] Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, I think it's also important that because we
[1:20:15] Speaker 1: don't want to go the other direction where in business
[1:20:18] Speaker 1: we think, particularly if we're leading a business where we
[1:20:20] Speaker 1: think that we can't say something because someone's going to
[1:20:23] Speaker 1: get upset and they're going to run off. HR that
[1:20:26] Speaker 1: doesn't work either, YEA and the answer to it is
[1:20:29] Speaker 1: up to the individual who's making the approach to think
[1:20:35] Speaker 1: it through. And it's not about I don't want to
[1:20:38] Speaker 1: upset them. It's not about that. It's about being effective.
[1:20:42] Speaker 1: The most effective process is to word it properly, time
[1:20:46] Speaker 1: it properly, and respond again, and respond again. And if
[1:20:50] Speaker 1: you think that you might they might have misintribuable you,
[1:20:52] Speaker 1: so then respond again.
[1:20:53] Speaker 2: Right. Yeah, I mean that's something I've had to learn.
[1:20:56] Speaker 2: I often thought that if I, if I love someone
[1:21:03] Speaker 2: that you know, I should just sweep hard things underneath
[1:21:06] Speaker 2: the carpet. But if you really love someone, you should
[1:21:08] Speaker 2: figure out a way to deliver feedback that will help
[1:21:11] Speaker 2: them in a way that is not going to be
[1:21:16] Speaker 2: you know, attacking or argumentative.
[1:21:18] Speaker 1: Well seen as that.
[1:21:19] Speaker 2: Or seen as that. So I think the piece that
[1:21:21] Speaker 2: you're talking about where you pause a little bit before
[1:21:24] Speaker 2: the communication, I think that comes with age.
[1:21:27] Speaker 1: Yeah. Unfortunately, Well, and then as you get older and
[1:21:30] Speaker 1: you and if you are leadering your business, that's something
[1:21:33] Speaker 1: you must you must share that process with others so
[1:21:36] Speaker 1: that they can learn that for themselves too. They may
[1:21:38] Speaker 1: learn immediately, but they might remember it one day. And
[1:21:41] Speaker 1: by the way, where I grew how I grew up
[1:21:43] Speaker 1: in business during that era which i'm twing fifty years ago.
[1:21:48] Speaker 1: That was not the process the boss of the boss.
[1:21:50] Speaker 1: You did what the boss told you to do. That's
[1:21:52] Speaker 1: all bullshit. Today that doesn't work. It's not effective. It's
[1:21:55] Speaker 1: not because of today, it just that is not the
[1:21:57] Speaker 1: most efficient way of running a business or or indeed
[1:22:00] Speaker 1: having interactions with people in your life. Simon, I really
[1:22:05] Speaker 1: appreciate your time. I've taken a lot of your time,
[1:22:08] Speaker 1: but if I could just recap a little bit of
[1:22:10] Speaker 1: stuff here, so I think what's been really valuable today
[1:22:14] Speaker 1: that you've told us about is the difference, Well, if
[1:22:19] Speaker 1: we are seeing something that's trending, how we sort of
[1:22:21] Speaker 1: unpack that as to and the sources of places we
[1:22:25] Speaker 1: can unpack it with. And in my case, as I
[1:22:27] Speaker 1: said earlier, I listened to a tear. I'll go through
[1:22:30] Speaker 1: you know, I subscribe to here, or go through his
[1:22:32] Speaker 1: episodes and I'll try and find where he's spoken to
[1:22:34] Speaker 1: expert or speak to human, listen to Whoman, and I'll
[1:22:36] Speaker 1: do the same for you, which is one of the
[1:22:37] Speaker 1: reasons I mean, I feel quite privileged to have you
[1:22:41] Speaker 1: here today as an Australian representative of this territory. And
[1:22:44] Speaker 1: so if you're looking at something as trending, you're not
[1:22:46] Speaker 1: sure about it, and you're saying it's probably at the
[1:22:48] Speaker 1: margin anyway, and maybe not even worth it relative to
[1:22:51] Speaker 1: the risk, go look at but in order to assess that,
[1:22:55] Speaker 1: and go look at someone else who's spoken to someone
[1:22:57] Speaker 1: else about who's an absolute expert in the area that.
[1:23:00] Speaker 2: Right, be curious, Like being curious is cool, is amazing,
[1:23:03] Speaker 2: Like I don't want to take that away from people. Yeah,
[1:23:06] Speaker 2: be curious. You found something that's interesting, you're intrigued. I
[1:23:09] Speaker 2: mean that life is about being curious. It makes it
[1:23:12] Speaker 2: so much so interesting. But have a healthy level of skepticism.
[1:23:17] Speaker 1: Well, and you know, maybe I could just go one
[1:23:20] Speaker 1: more step absolutely curious, but then got learn, but learn
[1:23:24] Speaker 1: from sources that are persuasive and authoritative. In other words,
[1:23:29] Speaker 1: I mean that's a proper legal sense. But you know
[1:23:33] Speaker 1: we always whenever I was practicing law firm, like, it
[1:23:36] Speaker 1: was always about, well, don't make that proposition mark unless
[1:23:39] Speaker 1: there is authority case law, that is authority for the
[1:23:43] Speaker 1: proposition you make. And make sure you're able to rely
[1:23:45] Speaker 1: on high could judges or federal court decisions or you know,
[1:23:49] Speaker 1: English decision or whatever the case might be, that are
[1:23:51] Speaker 1: authorities on the proposition. And this comes the sciences are same.
[1:23:55] Speaker 1: It's evidence based. Law is about evidence, proper evidence, that's
[1:23:59] Speaker 1: accept ball. Yeah.
[1:24:00] Speaker 2: And if it sounds too good to be true, usually
[1:24:03] Speaker 2: it is, you know the old adage. Usually it is
[1:24:07] Speaker 2: if it sounds like a quick fixed magic bullet, a shortcut.
[1:24:11] Speaker 2: If it's a shortcut around all those things we've discussed today,
[1:24:15] Speaker 2: the exercise and the sleep and the relationships which I
[1:24:20] Speaker 2: think of kind of like personal hygiene, like brushing my teeth,
[1:24:23] Speaker 2: they're just foundational. If it's a shortcut around those, or
[1:24:26] Speaker 2: a distraction from those, just be by a beware.
[1:24:30] Speaker 1: So play the long game. There's no there's no quick
[1:24:32] Speaker 1: way there. And then we did talk about importantly protein
[1:24:36] Speaker 1: but also the thing that stimulates protein, which is exercise
[1:24:41] Speaker 1: and particular types of exercise, which I find quite fascinating him.
[1:24:45] Speaker 1: And I was listening the other day actually to human
[1:24:48] Speaker 1: and maybe about three weeks ago, he was talking to
[1:24:50] Speaker 1: a Russian guy who trained a lot of Russian Olympians
[1:24:55] Speaker 1: in strength contests, you know, like weightlifters, not bodybuills of weightlifters,
[1:25:02] Speaker 1: and he actually said what you just said, You don't
[1:25:06] Speaker 1: need to do go to failure. That old adage train
[1:25:10] Speaker 1: of failure is just doesn't make sense. And in fact,
[1:25:14] Speaker 1: it can open you up to injury which sets you
[1:25:17] Speaker 1: back for a long time. And it also will put
[1:25:19] Speaker 1: you in a position where your body's going to take
[1:25:21] Speaker 1: a really long time to repair, so you're not getting
[1:25:23] Speaker 1: getting enough time at it.
[1:25:25] Speaker 2: Yeah. The only evidence that I've seen where training to
[1:25:29] Speaker 2: failure looks positive is in an interesting study that actually
[1:25:34] Speaker 2: came out recently. Was say, for example, you can't do
[1:25:38] Speaker 2: ten sets across a week, and you're compress, you're traveling,
[1:25:41] Speaker 2: and you just have like a thirty minute once a
[1:25:44] Speaker 2: week resistance training. In that scenario, it's good to take
[1:25:48] Speaker 2: one set of each of those movements to failure. But
[1:25:51] Speaker 2: if you have enough time to get ten sets in
[1:25:53] Speaker 2: across a week, I completely agree the risk of injury
[1:25:56] Speaker 2: is too high. And if you were going to do it,
[1:25:58] Speaker 2: you would always do it on a machine, not on
[1:26:01] Speaker 2: like a free.
[1:26:01] Speaker 1: Weight, right, so something is controlled.
[1:26:03] Speaker 2: Right, So if you're a chest press you'd be on
[1:26:05] Speaker 2: a chest press machine so that if you've got a failure,
[1:26:08] Speaker 2: there's no risk of like something dropping on your neck.
[1:26:11] Speaker 1: Yeah, but thank god. And just to close off, how
[1:26:15] Speaker 1: do people find you a podcast? And by way, have
[1:26:17] Speaker 1: you got anyone interesting coming up? Obviously everyone's interesting, but
[1:26:20] Speaker 1: have you got anything that's exciting? Well? You know, is
[1:26:22] Speaker 1: there a couple of standout ones we should be listening
[1:26:24] Speaker 1: to them? Mean that you would like to point us
[1:26:26] Speaker 1: to and where do we find it?
[1:26:28] Speaker 2: Yeah? So the podcast is The Proof Ye with Simon Hill.
[1:26:32] Speaker 2: You can just search The Proof that'll come up on YouTube, Spotify, Apple.
[1:26:36] Speaker 2: Some of my favorite episodes to go back and listen to,
[1:26:39] Speaker 2: I'd say Walter Willett, who is a PhD nutrition scientist,
[1:26:44] Speaker 2: most cited nutrition scientists in the world. Wow from Harvard,
[1:26:47] Speaker 2: Walter Willett. Walter Willett. That conversation I had about eighteen
[1:26:50] Speaker 2: months ago in Boston in person with him, and that's
[1:26:54] Speaker 2: probably one of my favorite conversations I've had. So if
[1:26:56] Speaker 2: you want to hear to someone who's just been in
[1:26:59] Speaker 2: five decades working as a nutrition scientist and you know,
[1:27:04] Speaker 2: cognitively sharp as ever, then then jump on that episode.
[1:27:08] Speaker 2: I have an episode with Wolter Longo coming out on
[1:27:11] Speaker 2: longevity and some of his research looking at fasting and
[1:27:15] Speaker 2: cancer and about to release that episode on Olive Oil.
[1:27:20] Speaker 2: Brian Johnson's teeth up to come on and.
[1:27:22] Speaker 1: Did he come on?
[1:27:23] Speaker 2: He's coming. He hasn't been on my show yet. He's
[1:27:25] Speaker 2: coming on soon. We're trying to organize the date with.
[1:27:29] Speaker 2: Do you know Bill Perkins? Have you heard of him?
[1:27:31] Speaker 2: He wrote a book called Die with Zero, which means
[1:27:33] Speaker 2: what essentially his well, his philosophy is around, you know,
[1:27:38] Speaker 2: how to utilize your money during life. You know how
[1:27:41] Speaker 2: you think, how he thinks you should spend it, and
[1:27:43] Speaker 2: when you should spend it. He's optimizing for what he
[1:27:46] Speaker 2: would say is kind of maximum life fulfillment, whereas Brian
[1:27:50] Speaker 2: Johnson's kind of optimizing for don't die. So I'm getting
[1:27:53] Speaker 2: them onto a lot of overlapping what they talk about,
[1:27:57] Speaker 2: but some differences. So yeah, those are a few of
[1:27:59] Speaker 2: the conversations.
[1:28:00] Speaker 1: That are coming up. Yeah, So we go to the Proof,
[1:28:03] Speaker 1: the podcast called the Proof with just just the Proof.
[1:28:07] Speaker 1: If I go on Spotify and put in the proof,
[1:28:10] Speaker 1: I get to there, which by the way, I wish
[1:28:13] Speaker 1: I do do You're actually on my So what I
[1:28:16] Speaker 1: do with yours and the other two guys I mentioned earlier?
[1:28:19] Speaker 1: I download them so that when I'm on a plane,
[1:28:22] Speaker 1: I don't get sort of locked out, and I can
[1:28:24] Speaker 1: actually listen to those podcasts as I'm going along. When
[1:28:28] Speaker 1: I'm flying, especially if I'm on a long trip, I
[1:28:29] Speaker 1: can just sort of consume a whole lot of podcasts
[1:28:32] Speaker 1: about health generally. I mean, I listen to other stuff too,
[1:28:34] Speaker 1: but I listened to jar Reagan, et cetera. But in
[1:28:37] Speaker 1: terms of health along optimization. I hate the world longevity,
[1:28:40] Speaker 1: but let's call it optimization, which is what I like
[1:28:42] Speaker 1: to talk about, optimizing what I've got. I'm sat about
[1:28:47] Speaker 1: one hundred times, but I will tell everybody I do
[1:28:49] Speaker 1: listen to this guy, Simon Hill. I listened to The Proof.
[1:28:52] Speaker 1: I listened to Simon Hill. Watch if I follow him
[1:28:54] Speaker 1: and I was. I listened to Peter A Tear, and
[1:28:56] Speaker 1: I listened to Doctor Andrew Human. Particularly when it comes
[1:28:58] Speaker 1: to the guests that you guys get, I don't know
[1:29:00] Speaker 1: how you get access to these guys, but you obviously
[1:29:03] Speaker 1: you do a lot of your stuff in the US.
[1:29:04] Speaker 1: I know you live in the US quite a bit
[1:29:06] Speaker 1: of your time seventy five percent or so much as
[1:29:08] Speaker 1: they spent in the United States. That correct.
[1:29:10] Speaker 2: Yeah, I moved to la last year for.
[1:29:13] Speaker 1: The show really just to get access to people, is it.
[1:29:16] Speaker 2: Yeah, there's I joined a network called Voicing Change You Ritroll,
[1:29:21] Speaker 2: he's a yeah Ritroll.
[1:29:22] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[1:29:23] Speaker 2: He has a podcast, a big podcast in the States,
[1:29:26] Speaker 2: and then he set up a company with like five
[1:29:28] Speaker 2: shows underneath it. And so I am underneath that.
[1:29:31] Speaker 1: Bad one of the shows under that one.
[1:29:33] Speaker 2: Yeah, and being in LA's where they record from, and
[1:29:36] Speaker 2: like you said, it just allows me to get a
[1:29:39] Speaker 2: few more of these expert domain specific experts on in person.
[1:29:43] Speaker 1: I had a pre nuvo over that went did a
[1:29:44] Speaker 1: prinevo okay this time last year of March last year.
[1:29:48] Speaker 1: Pretty interesting. I mean we don't have it in Australia,
[1:29:49] Speaker 1: which is crazy, but like there is one now at
[1:29:52] Speaker 1: the moment called one MRI, but it's not quite the
[1:29:55] Speaker 1: same as the pre Nuvo protocols. And what I found
[1:30:00] Speaker 1: fascinating as an AMURI, I just should say, it's an
[1:30:03] Speaker 1: AMRI whole body of AMRI, but only takes an hour
[1:30:05] Speaker 1: in a quarter, it's not too bad. And then they
[1:30:08] Speaker 1: give you a report and they're looking for mass and
[1:30:11] Speaker 1: your mass within your body, but they look in every
[1:30:13] Speaker 1: part of your body like Organs's brain, everywhere, and it's
[1:30:19] Speaker 1: a bit punishing sort of sitting in the MRI machine
[1:30:22] Speaker 1: for that long because you get a little weird all
[1:30:25] Speaker 1: the noises and stuff. But it's amazing how far ahead
[1:30:30] Speaker 1: the Americans are relative to baselining or getting baselines about stuff.
[1:30:35] Speaker 1: Seeing gab and get a look together in two years time,
[1:30:37] Speaker 1: relative to what we have here in Australia, and it's
[1:30:41] Speaker 1: like that they're ten to fifteen years ahead of us
[1:30:44] Speaker 1: in terms of thought thinking about things like it, just
[1:30:46] Speaker 1: like for example, hyperbaric chambers, so like oxygen in the
[1:30:51] Speaker 1: hyperbaric chamber, and you know how the sort of things
[1:30:53] Speaker 1: it does for healing. So I've just got off a
[1:30:54] Speaker 1: planets as said you, and I'm actually we have one
[1:30:57] Speaker 1: here and I'm going to go not here, there's one
[1:30:59] Speaker 1: up the road here. I'm going to go and try
[1:31:00] Speaker 1: it and see what it does for jet lag. I'm
[1:31:03] Speaker 1: going to do it tomorrow. And yeah there's but it's
[1:31:06] Speaker 1: like for a normally, for an individual, I'm lucky the
[1:31:09] Speaker 1: guy's arranging me to do it, but normally it's hard
[1:31:12] Speaker 1: to access that sort of stuff. Or I'm talking about
[1:31:14] Speaker 1: a medical grade hyperbaric chamber, not the ones that you
[1:31:20] Speaker 1: might see in gyms, in various plays of a medical
[1:31:23] Speaker 1: grade one, you know, and all these new things that
[1:31:26] Speaker 1: they're doing in the state in the United States, like
[1:31:29] Speaker 1: Gary Brecker, like some of the stuff that he's talking about.
[1:31:31] Speaker 1: At the moment, I don't know I was right or wrong.
[1:31:34] Speaker 1: I mean, he's a human biologist, so I guess he
[1:31:36] Speaker 1: knows more about the science of the body than I'll
[1:31:38] Speaker 1: ever do. But you know, red light therapies, they're all.
[1:31:42] Speaker 1: We could be sitting here discussing this stuff for hours.
[1:31:45] Speaker 1: But unfortunately, as you know, the Australian audience only has
[1:31:50] Speaker 1: a shorter period that they want to listen to a podcast.
[1:31:53] Speaker 1: That's true.
[1:31:54] Speaker 2: I did one podcast that was four and a half hours.
[1:31:57] Speaker 1: And for me, I'm going to have to listen to
[1:31:59] Speaker 1: that over a like a week. But Americans they do it,
[1:32:03] Speaker 1: that's the American thing. They do three hour, four hour
[1:32:05] Speaker 1: podcasts as normal. I do listen to American ones, but
[1:32:09] Speaker 1: in Australia, Australian ones, we tend to be a lot
[1:32:12] Speaker 1: shorter periods. I don't know what it is.
[1:32:14] Speaker 2: Fortunately, now there's there's time stamps.
[1:32:17] Speaker 1: Flick through it. Yeah, and so I don't want to
[1:32:18] Speaker 1: into that part or just listen to this part. But
[1:32:21] Speaker 1: so I really appreciate your time, mate, and it's been
[1:32:23] Speaker 1: fantastic and we definitely will do the olive oil test
[1:32:27] Speaker 1: I want to do. I get my gang onto.
[1:32:28] Speaker 2: It add percent and the feelings are mutual. You know,
[1:32:32] Speaker 2: I've followed your work for a long time, so it's
[1:32:36] Speaker 2: an honor for me to sit down with you again.
[1:32:38] Speaker 2: And I feel, even though we're in different kind of
[1:32:42] Speaker 2: categories of information content that we share, I've always admired
[1:32:48] Speaker 2: when I hear you speak, it's seems like your highest
[1:32:52] Speaker 2: priority is the welfare of your community. And that's like
[1:32:56] Speaker 2: one of my filters that I try and use for
[1:32:59] Speaker 2: my show is always have being whether a sponsor comes
[1:33:01] Speaker 2: to me and wants to spend money on the show,
[1:33:02] Speaker 2: it's okay, the health of the listener as first, and
[1:33:06] Speaker 2: then everything flows from that. So yeah, thanks for inspiring that,
[1:33:09] Speaker 2: Thank you very much.
[1:33:10] Speaker 1: It is a tough game. This This is a tough
[1:33:12] Speaker 1: game because you've got to pay costs and bills and
[1:33:15] Speaker 1: there's a lot of filtering that goes on that people
[1:33:17] Speaker 1: don't know about. Behind the scenes. We're doing it. We're
[1:33:21] Speaker 1: doing it all the time. It's so if you don't
[1:33:23] Speaker 1: love it, you probably should never try and do it
[1:33:25] Speaker 1: like a podcast, you should should never try and do it.
[1:33:28] Speaker 1: But I really enjoy myself. We will definitely get down
[1:33:30] Speaker 1: to Wargram will because I'm really dying to get into
[1:33:33] Speaker 1: one of these places to see how they tested and
[1:33:35] Speaker 1: just see what the deal is like. You know, watch
[1:33:37] Speaker 1: these guys, you know with test tubes and stuff like that,
[1:33:40] Speaker 1: and you will know how it all works. You will
[1:33:41] Speaker 1: be uselere so. But for me, I find it quite fascinating.
[1:33:44] Speaker 1: Go on your mate thinks appreciate.
[1:33:45] Speaker 2: Thank you Mark.
[1:33:46] Speaker 1: Thanks mate,

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