# Fixing the Body: An Orthopaedic Surgeon’s Take on Surgery, Recovery & Hyperbaric Tech

An episode of [Project 100 with Mark Bouris](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1767053714), 23 Mar 2025, 1 h 51 min.

Audio: https://p.podderapp.com/2544644999/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/2fb3740d-3436-44af-8cc0-a91900716aa5/05ac4e52-79fb-46b8-849c-b305000bd6d0/4b46d715-f154-4945-ba14-b305000c008f/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=ef13e652-7a19-41fd-9d0f-b305000bd6dc

All content and media by Project 100 is created and published online for informational purposes only. It is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice and should not be relied on as health or personal advice. **** Dr Gordon Slater is a leading Orthopaedic Specialist in foot and ankle care. Trained by 1997, he advanced his skills at New York’s Hospital for Special Surgery. A pioneer in minimally invasive surgery in Australia, , he reduces surgery time, discomfort, and scarring for faster recovery. Dr. Slater blends regenerative medicine and hyperbaric therapy into his holistic practice, enhancing healing and patient outcomes. Dr. Slater is helping me heal from one of my injuries. In this episode, we spoke about his journey, qualifications, and innovations in orthopaedics. We covered surgical challenges, how aging affects recovery, and the healing benefits of Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy. The conversation explores treatment protocols, the role of surgery, surgical processes, whether surgery is overused, scientific insights, and lifestyle tips—including the importance of grip and core strength. We finish with a discussion on the future of surgery and the role artificial intelligence will play in it. Ready to take your sleep and recovery to the next level? Head over to www.eightsleep.com/project100/ and use the code PROJECT100 to get $350 off your very own Pod 4 Ultra. Trust me, your body will thank you for this investment in better sleep. Shipping to many countries worldwide. See details at eightsleep.com/project100/ Follow Project 100 on Instagram. Follow Mark Bouris on Instagram, LinkedIn, Twitter & YouTube. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:00] Speaker 1: Gooday, guys, Mark boris here these days. If you want
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[1:13] Speaker 2: Dr Gordon Slater, Welcome to Project one hundred, mate.
[1:17] Speaker 3: Thanks Mark, great to be here. Thanks for the opportunity.
[1:21] Speaker 1: I guess we should tell everybody how I know this dude.
[1:24] Speaker 1: I was actually just finishing my jiu jitsu session and
[1:29] Speaker 1: in the cross and with our mile mate Larry Papadopoles.
[1:35] Speaker 1: And Larry's next session was with this blanket pera shorts
[1:40] Speaker 1: and T shirt and a beard, and it was a
[1:43] Speaker 1: pad pad session, and Larry said, I mean, you should
[1:46] Speaker 1: talk to this guy because I have an injury. Okay,
[1:49] Speaker 1: so I have an injury. I've always got a fucking injury,
[1:51] Speaker 1: but I've got an injury, right, And Larry soon shure
[1:54] Speaker 1: to this guy, he's an authmeetic surgeon and he knows
[1:59] Speaker 1: about obviously, you know, muscle tears all that sort of stuff.
[2:04] Speaker 1: In which case I waited for you finish your session.
[2:06] Speaker 1: And then we started talking. We started talking about hyperbaric
[2:10] Speaker 1: chambers and oxygen.
[2:12] Speaker 2: So what do you call it? Hagebot?
[2:14] Speaker 3: H bot.
[2:14] Speaker 2: That's right, hyperbaric oxygen therapy therapy. There we go.
[2:19] Speaker 1: Now, I've got to be fascinated, because I get fascinated
[2:21] Speaker 1: by these things. Anyway, I'll leave that part, that's how
[2:25] Speaker 1: I know him. I leave that part right to them.
[2:26] Speaker 1: We'll talk about that stuff and what my experience has
[2:29] Speaker 1: been with it. We'll come back to that. But I
[2:33] Speaker 1: just want to introduce how I met the guy. That's
[2:36] Speaker 1: the first thing I also remember seem to I don't
[2:39] Speaker 1: know what, but I'm sure before I met you, I
[2:41] Speaker 1: had seen Instagram stuff from you.
[2:45] Speaker 2: Would that be right?
[2:46] Speaker 3: Yeah, we've had some Instagram posts on it.
[2:48] Speaker 1: Yeah, And somehow has found his way to me, And
[2:50] Speaker 1: probably because Instagram profiles people and knows I'm interested in
[2:54] Speaker 1: this sort of stuff. And you must be talking about
[2:57] Speaker 1: regenerative medicine, you must be talking about longevity and probably
[3:02] Speaker 1: talking about other stuff that I'm interested in. So somehow
[3:04] Speaker 1: I found the stuff to wait, it's way to me.
[3:06] Speaker 1: And I knew your name, but I couldn't rememberhere. I
[3:09] Speaker 1: knew your name from our tradition on the show as
[3:12] Speaker 1: we ask our guests to just give us a bit
[3:16] Speaker 1: of an idea what they're let's call it academic and
[3:20] Speaker 1: professional qualifications.
[3:22] Speaker 2: So do you mind telling us what they are?
[3:24] Speaker 3: Yeah? Sure. So I'm an Australian trained orthopedic surgeon. I've
[3:29] Speaker 3: got an interest in put in aircle surgery, trained at
[3:32] Speaker 3: Hadre Says, which is hospital for special Surgery in New York,
[3:35] Speaker 3: and have had a very long relationship with them, and
[3:38] Speaker 3: I guess that my interest in hyperbaricosion therapy stem from that.
[3:42] Speaker 3: So I've written lots of papers with the guys in
[3:45] Speaker 3: New York and a great mate of mine, Mariy O'Malley,
[3:48] Speaker 3: a couple of years ago, said you got to I'm
[3:50] Speaker 3: starting up a business MD Hyperbaric in New York and
[3:53] Speaker 3: we're going to start to treat our pro athletes with
[3:56] Speaker 3: hyperbaric ossian and general people. And I said to him,
[3:59] Speaker 3: I don't think they works, and he said, we'll come
[4:01] Speaker 3: over and take a look. So yes, academically, you know,
[4:05] Speaker 3: trained in Australia, the Australian program. I've trained overseas in France,
[4:10] Speaker 3: in Edinburgh and also in New York.
[4:12] Speaker 2: In orthopedics, in orthopedics in other words, surgery.
[4:15] Speaker 3: That's right. And I've just taken up a professoral professorship
[4:20] Speaker 3: at a university of technology setting.
[4:22] Speaker 2: And is that a teaching role or is that a
[4:25] Speaker 2: research role?
[4:26] Speaker 3: Combination? So teaching, just starting up the lecture program. So
[4:30] Speaker 3: I've had a couple of their students through already, and
[4:32] Speaker 3: we sponsor primarily one of their students who's a biomedical engineer,
[4:37] Speaker 3: some of the biomedical section of.
[4:39] Speaker 1: The university, which is the combination of the faculty medicine
[4:43] Speaker 1: and engineering.
[4:44] Speaker 3: Yeah, they don't actually have a medical they don't have
[4:48] Speaker 3: a medical degree at UTS, but they have biomedical so
[4:51] Speaker 3: they have like a range of different things in that space.
[4:56] Speaker 3: So I'm trying to push a regenerative medicine for but
[5:00] Speaker 3: that will be primarily from a biomedical point of view.
[5:03] Speaker 1: So fair to say that you are a student of
[5:09] Speaker 1: regenerative medicine as such. Also you're a student of orthopedic surgery,
[5:14] Speaker 1: which is what you do day to day, but you're
[5:16] Speaker 1: also a student of you know what apparatus is what
[5:20] Speaker 1: engineer engineered things like machines, which is where the engineering
[5:24] Speaker 1: part comes in, can do to us in terms of
[5:26] Speaker 1: helping us get better.
[5:28] Speaker 3: Yeah, that's exactly right. Orthopedics uses a lot of mechanical device,
[5:31] Speaker 3: you know, hip replacement or a replaces their mechanical things, as
[5:35] Speaker 3: are external fixators. So we do have engineering component in orthopedics.
[5:40] Speaker 2: Yeah, that's interesting.
[5:42] Speaker 1: You know, sometimes people forget what an orthopedic surgeon does,
[5:46] Speaker 1: but basically they use all these tools. My brother recently
[5:51] Speaker 1: had a hip operation and a new operation, new replacement,
[5:53] Speaker 1: hip replacement, and I was talking to his surgeon at
[5:57] Speaker 1: Saint Vincent's and he was basically telling me how he
[6:02] Speaker 1: did the surgery. And my god, like he literally cut
[6:06] Speaker 1: his knee, his leg at the top party leg off
[6:10] Speaker 1: and at the bottom party leg off, and took the
[6:12] Speaker 1: knee out and put a brand new steel one or
[6:15] Speaker 1: something like that in there. Somehow reconnected all the bits
[6:19] Speaker 1: and pieces and did the same on the opposite side
[6:21] Speaker 1: for the hip. There's a lot and these tools use that.
[6:26] Speaker 1: They are engineered, like down to an inch of it,
[6:29] Speaker 1: within an inch of their life. I mean, these things
[6:30] Speaker 1: have got to be accurate. They've got to be clean,
[6:32] Speaker 1: they've got to be they've got to last, they've got
[6:35] Speaker 1: to be of a certain weight.
[6:37] Speaker 2: They're engineered to find detail is that correct?
[6:40] Speaker 3: Oh yea too micros of millimeters. You know, the technical
[6:45] Speaker 3: specs are and then they're tested like they're extensively tested,
[6:49] Speaker 3: bench tested, and then tested and analyzed in the body
[6:52] Speaker 3: as to how they how they function and they work.
[6:54] Speaker 3: So yes, it's it's a very highly specialized area. And
[7:00] Speaker 3: you look at like the NASA Space program, you know,
[7:02] Speaker 3: like they engineer things to very high tolerances, and medicine
[7:06] Speaker 3: is very very much in the same milk as that.
[7:08] Speaker 2: And it's funny, like we talked about longevity, and we'll
[7:11] Speaker 2: come to that in a moment, but one of the
[7:14] Speaker 2: things that will keep us living longer is just the
[7:20] Speaker 2: technology that you guys can roll out.
[7:23] Speaker 1: So you know, the technology gets built and instead of
[7:27] Speaker 1: me hobbling around on a bad near or a bad
[7:28] Speaker 1: hip and perhaps falling over or become sedentry because you know,
[7:32] Speaker 1: so much pain over a period of time, I'll probably get.
[7:35] Speaker 2: Depressed and I die.
[7:37] Speaker 1: Now what you do, you say, no, I'll give a
[7:38] Speaker 1: new knee, mark, and I'll give you a new hip,
[7:40] Speaker 1: and I'll give a new shoulder, a new elbow, whatever
[7:42] Speaker 1: the case and be and all of a sudden, I'm
[7:44] Speaker 1: not sententry and I can get back to my life
[7:46] Speaker 1: and I'll live longer. I mean, there's health tech will
[7:50] Speaker 1: make us live longer, maybe not better, but definitely longer.
[7:53] Speaker 3: Is that your observation too, I think when you look
[7:56] Speaker 3: at I mean, it's a fascinating question because I think
[7:59] Speaker 3: when you look at the extremes of longevity, it's been
[8:02] Speaker 3: very hard to budge that number. So I always go
[8:05] Speaker 3: back to octopian Caesar dying at the age of seventy nine,
[8:08] Speaker 3: probably poisoned in eighty fourteen. So if you look at
[8:12] Speaker 3: his death at seventy nine compared to our average rate
[8:17] Speaker 3: of death in Australia, which is eighty three and in
[8:19] Speaker 3: the US at seventy nine, the actually objective change has
[8:23] Speaker 3: been hard to budge. So it's not like your iPhone
[8:25] Speaker 3: that you're seeing people living to three or four hundred
[8:28] Speaker 3: years old with that technology. But what you do see,
[8:30] Speaker 3: as you say, is the average. So our average life
[8:33] Speaker 3: expectancy has almost doubled in two thousand years, and that's
[8:38] Speaker 3: an interesting thing. And you're right, if you've in constant pain,
[8:41] Speaker 3: a hip replacement is a marvelous procedure. I suppose the
[8:45] Speaker 3: question is can we delay it or what is the
[8:48] Speaker 3: opportunity for us to objectively change that number in terms
[8:51] Speaker 3: of the longevity score.
[8:55] Speaker 2: You know, I saw something interesting.
[8:56] Speaker 1: I think it came out of this Bureau Statistics this
[9:01] Speaker 1: year might have been, this might have been late last year,
[9:03] Speaker 1: that the actually the average age of an Australian mail
[9:05] Speaker 1: has droped back a little bit in the last two months,
[9:08] Speaker 1: by about four tenths of a year.
[9:10] Speaker 2: And I don't know why.
[9:11] Speaker 1: I don't know what the reason for it is, but
[9:12] Speaker 1: as dropped back slightly bit below the number you just mentioned.
[9:15] Speaker 1: Females live a year longer for some reason, but men's
[9:21] Speaker 1: but the men, the average age of Australian male before
[9:26] Speaker 1: dying is a little bit less than it was, which
[9:30] Speaker 1: is sort of interesting when I think about, you know,
[9:32] Speaker 1: the standard of living Australi has probably also dropped back
[9:35] Speaker 1: on a per capita basis. Lots of things are changing
[9:37] Speaker 1: and you know, like it's probably got nothing to do
[9:39] Speaker 1: with technology.
[9:40] Speaker 2: But you never know what these what caused these things?
[9:43] Speaker 1: A little bit off the topic, but that's just sort
[9:46] Speaker 1: of they should share that little stat with you. So
[9:49] Speaker 1: I'm I want to ask you this, why have you
[9:54] Speaker 1: become interested in and I hate the word longevity but
[9:58] Speaker 1: why have you become interested in and longevity and regenerator
[10:01] Speaker 1: generative medicine. I mean, how does that sort of sort
[10:04] Speaker 1: of fit into being a surgeon who's basically there to
[10:08] Speaker 1: fix up the problem see you later, But.
[10:11] Speaker 3: It starts with all the pets, you know, and the
[10:13] Speaker 3: recovery after surgery or the avoidance of surgery. So I
[10:18] Speaker 3: was always interested in how you could speed up the recovery,
[10:20] Speaker 3: particularly when you get an elite athlete. You know, you're
[10:22] Speaker 3: under this pressure that they want to get back on
[10:24] Speaker 3: the field very quickly. So then you get down this
[10:27] Speaker 3: pathway minimally invasive surgery, and it seems like with some
[10:30] Speaker 3: of those minimally invasive techniques you can get back to
[10:32] Speaker 3: playing quick or you get boat.
[10:34] Speaker 1: You'd be just the good minimally invasive minimum.
[10:38] Speaker 3: So if you look at a standard operative procedure, so
[10:41] Speaker 3: like a knee replacement, it's a it's an open procedure.
[10:44] Speaker 3: It's not minimally invasive necessarily in that definition. It's when
[10:48] Speaker 3: you're operating through little fine incisions, so they might be
[10:52] Speaker 3: two millimeters, and you're doing a procedure that might normally
[10:55] Speaker 3: have taken an decision that was five or six centimeters,
[10:58] Speaker 3: so then it's image guided with X ray or sometimes
[11:01] Speaker 3: ultrasound perhaps, And in the US they've got a lot
[11:05] Speaker 3: of CT scanners they're bringing into the operative field as well,
[11:09] Speaker 3: so it allows you to operate through very small incisions
[11:13] Speaker 3: and the incision is more. We infer there that we've
[11:16] Speaker 3: disrupted less blood vessels and that there's going to be
[11:19] Speaker 3: a faster recovery rate and that generally holds. So from there,
[11:23] Speaker 3: the next thing was is there any other things that
[11:25] Speaker 3: we can deploy in terms of allowing the body to
[11:28] Speaker 3: recover quickly after a surgical procedure or just from an injury,
[11:33] Speaker 3: And that's where regeneritive medicine comes in. In twenty twenty,
[11:37] Speaker 3: there's a great article out of Duke University where they
[11:40] Speaker 3: published it in Science where they said that the human
[11:42] Speaker 3: body has a salamanda like capability to regenerate.
[11:46] Speaker 2: Or you should explain that because salamanders can grow things back.
[11:48] Speaker 3: That's right. So the salamander, the Mexican salamana, is amazing
[11:52] Speaker 3: animal in terms of regenerative capability that it can regenerate
[11:55] Speaker 3: a whole limb, so you can he can lose a
[11:58] Speaker 3: leg and it will grow that leg symmetrically and and portionately,
[12:04] Speaker 3: so for example, of it gets lost below the elbow,
[12:08] Speaker 3: and when generate a hip and thorax, it just generates
[12:12] Speaker 3: that component. So it's a very intelligent regenerative process. And
[12:15] Speaker 3: so what Juke did was look at Carlidge cells hip, knee,
[12:18] Speaker 3: and ankle, and what they found is that there's more
[12:21] Speaker 3: progenator cells. There's more of these cells that have the
[12:24] Speaker 3: capacity to divide and become cartilage, and they're increasing numbers
[12:28] Speaker 3: as you get down the body.
[12:29] Speaker 2: You mean towards more closer to the ground.
[12:32] Speaker 3: Exactly, Yeah, towards the foot and ankle. So the foot
[12:35] Speaker 3: and ankle is better than the knee. The knee is
[12:37] Speaker 3: better than the hip.
[12:38] Speaker 2: That's interesting.
[12:39] Speaker 1: So and I guess the hand is one of the
[12:42] Speaker 1: least likely to regenerate.
[12:45] Speaker 3: The hand has got less. So in some study there
[12:48] Speaker 3: was a paper by done looking regeneration of cottage and
[12:51] Speaker 3: you're right, like the a lot of people get thumbarthritis.
[12:54] Speaker 3: And he found like injecting that with recomminent products like
[12:58] Speaker 3: growth hormone, that it took quite a lot and the
[13:00] Speaker 3: thumb to get the result compared to the ankle. So
[13:03] Speaker 3: it's probably got less. We don't have absolute data on that,
[13:06] Speaker 3: but a child can regenerate a fingertip up to about
[13:09] Speaker 3: the age of a year and a half, so you
[13:10] Speaker 3: can see with humans we do have that capacity when
[13:13] Speaker 3: we're young. We do better regeneration as we get older.
[13:17] Speaker 1: So your specialty in terms of surgery is foot and
[13:20] Speaker 1: angle press.
[13:21] Speaker 2: Right, that's right.
[13:24] Speaker 1: When you say we have the ability to regenerate, you're
[13:26] Speaker 1: talking we as humans as opposed to being cull venders.
[13:29] Speaker 1: You're talking about cartilage though, that's right. Cottage is what
[13:33] Speaker 1: is cartilage, So.
[13:34] Speaker 3: Cartlages, it's a products a cushion and you join has
[13:37] Speaker 3: got two main elements. It's got the chondrocyite, which is
[13:41] Speaker 3: the cell, and then the kindra sites above the make
[13:43] Speaker 3: of matrix and around the make of matrix. So when
[13:46] Speaker 3: you load a JOIN, that is taking the impact. So
[13:49] Speaker 3: it's a very highly specialized product. It's subject to enormous pressures.
[13:57] Speaker 2: But it is like a cushion.
[13:58] Speaker 3: It's like a cushion. That's right, Cushions at the bones,
[14:01] Speaker 3: so it joints made up of two bones and in
[14:04] Speaker 3: between intervening them. Is this carttage cushion.
[14:06] Speaker 2: Okay, so.
[14:09] Speaker 1: Is what you're saying from that study that you quoted,
[14:12] Speaker 1: and what was the name of study again.
[14:13] Speaker 2: It was from Duke University, Duke University and it was
[14:17] Speaker 2: published where in science and science, science being one of
[14:20] Speaker 2: the better recognized journals.
[14:21] Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, that's I think that's important for our audience
[14:24] Speaker 1: to know that sort of stuff. You know, it wasn't
[14:26] Speaker 1: just published in some magazine that you know you can
[14:28] Speaker 1: go and buy the music agent. So and they are
[14:34] Speaker 1: hypothesizing or there. Now that they have now shown that
[14:39] Speaker 1: cartilage lower down can regenerate.
[14:41] Speaker 3: They'll able to show it, you know, in lab studies.
[14:45] Speaker 1: Lab studies have shown it. Yeah, so that's that's very interesting.
[14:47] Speaker 1: And you mentioned something I'm always sort of curious about.
[14:50] Speaker 1: It is growth hormone.
[14:52] Speaker 2: I think you said his growth hormone.
[14:56] Speaker 1: I mean, can you inject growth hormone into a joint
[15:00] Speaker 1: that needs to be repaired or you need to recover
[15:03] Speaker 1: because you know you may have had major surgery there.
[15:05] Speaker 1: Can you inject growth hormone and say into your nee
[15:07] Speaker 1: if you just have knee surgery, or will that affect
[15:10] Speaker 1: everything else in your body? And everything and your else
[15:12] Speaker 1: new body started to grow because once I was talking
[15:14] Speaker 1: to a surgeon in a eurological surgeon and he told
[15:18] Speaker 1: me that growth hormone can if you're a cancer, can
[15:21] Speaker 1: actually make your cancer grow too.
[15:23] Speaker 2: Is that true?
[15:24] Speaker 3: Well if the in some unlike the cancers, I think
[15:28] Speaker 3: that would be the case. So the cancer would need
[15:30] Speaker 3: to have a growth hormone receptor on it, which you
[15:33] Speaker 3: know is it can happen in some but just not
[15:36] Speaker 3: that commonly. Especially. Best study that's been done is on
[15:40] Speaker 3: a product platelet derived growth factor, which we use as
[15:44] Speaker 3: a product. It's supposed similar to growthman and we use
[15:47] Speaker 3: that and that that was put into the body in
[15:50] Speaker 3: combination with the synthetic bone as an adjudant to get
[15:54] Speaker 3: the bone to grow into the scaffold. And they did
[15:57] Speaker 3: a quite a number of studies and they've got FDA approval,
[15:59] Speaker 3: and what they demonstrated was one it's put in localized,
[16:02] Speaker 3: it didn't get into the bloodstream so much. The study
[16:06] Speaker 3: that you're alluding to is interesting because there's one that
[16:10] Speaker 3: we want to do. We need to get approval in
[16:13] Speaker 3: order to do it. It has been done by a chap
[16:15] Speaker 3: called done in the United States, but he was doing
[16:18] Speaker 3: it as an off license product and he was injecting
[16:21] Speaker 3: growth women into joints and he seemed to have pretty
[16:23] Speaker 3: good results. He's got a number of publications. They weren't
[16:27] Speaker 3: double blind, then they're not, I guess generally accepted. But
[16:32] Speaker 3: for what you're proposing, you would need, you know, that
[16:34] Speaker 3: would be an OURF licensed application of growth Woman. It's
[16:37] Speaker 3: got you know, its primary usage in Australia is for
[16:42] Speaker 3: small stature.
[16:44] Speaker 2: What that means small stature.
[16:45] Speaker 3: So if you're a dwarf you can get approval. I
[16:49] Speaker 3: think in China is being used quite quite a lot,
[16:53] Speaker 3: and there's there's quite a lot of there's not that
[16:56] Speaker 3: much usages of it. I think a lot of growth
[16:59] Speaker 3: Woman goes onto the black but as you know, like
[17:02] Speaker 3: weightlifters and so forth. But because it's actual clinical use
[17:06] Speaker 3: and approved use is very.
[17:07] Speaker 1: Narrow, and maybe you could explain that process because you know,
[17:12] Speaker 1: the regulatory environment. I don't want to bore the hell
[17:14] Speaker 1: out of people about regulatory stuff, but the regulatary environment's
[17:17] Speaker 1: pretty important in terms of what you can prescribe, what
[17:21] Speaker 1: you can't prescribe, and for it to get through the
[17:25] Speaker 1: regulatory environment's got to be approved by the DJ in
[17:29] Speaker 1: Australia's case, as opposed to the FDA, in the US case,
[17:34] Speaker 1: do you have to addhere to everything that they say?
[17:38] Speaker 1: In other words, can you think we say, well, Mark,
[17:40] Speaker 1: you know you just had this operation, I saw this,
[17:43] Speaker 1: read this paper in you know, nature or something like that,
[17:47] Speaker 1: which is highly you applawed it and everyone in the
[17:50] Speaker 1: world's start to use it. We're not hasn't really been
[17:53] Speaker 1: used in Australia, but I really want you to get it.
[17:55] Speaker 1: I really like you to do it because it might
[17:57] Speaker 1: help you recover more quickly. What are your restraints?
[18:01] Speaker 3: Oh, the constraints are tied and you'd be foolish to
[18:04] Speaker 3: go anywhere near breaching them.
[18:07] Speaker 1: So what do you but how you guide it as
[18:09] Speaker 1: to what you can tell me that I can have.
[18:11] Speaker 1: What are your guidelines? And who issues the guidelines?
[18:14] Speaker 3: So well? The TGA issue good lines. We have a
[18:16] Speaker 3: lot of regulatory bodies that we interface with, so you know,
[18:20] Speaker 3: everybody from APRA to our own colleges will tell us
[18:23] Speaker 3: what they think is appropriate for us to do. The
[18:27] Speaker 3: PBS of the pharmaceutical Schedule will tell us what is
[18:31] Speaker 3: appropriate for somebody to prescribe. So sometimes you can have
[18:35] Speaker 3: like an off license use but even that you know.
[18:38] Speaker 2: You have a mean off license, you said that a
[18:39] Speaker 2: couple tize it.
[18:40] Speaker 3: Yeah, that's well, that's what this chap done did in
[18:44] Speaker 3: the United States for many years. He used it as
[18:46] Speaker 3: an off license product. I'm very cautious about doing that.
[18:51] Speaker 3: In fact, you know, don't do it. It's got to
[18:53] Speaker 3: have a very well defined usage before I would I
[18:57] Speaker 3: would use it. And I think that, Look, our regulatory
[19:00] Speaker 3: environment is very tired in Australia, and I think you'd
[19:03] Speaker 3: be foolish to go anywhere near outside that. For example,
[19:06] Speaker 3: the muscular skalidal infection that needs six weeks of antibiodies,
[19:09] Speaker 3: we are under a regidline that we can only prescribe
[19:11] Speaker 3: a week at a time.
[19:13] Speaker 1: So in otherwords, if I cut myself at a gym
[19:16] Speaker 1: and something I guess infected, that's right, it gets into
[19:19] Speaker 1: my muscle or more close to my bone or into
[19:22] Speaker 1: my bone that and I come to see you. The
[19:25] Speaker 1: prescription will only be a week at a time in
[19:26] Speaker 1: terms of antibodics that are required.
[19:28] Speaker 3: That's right, a week at a time. We can go
[19:29] Speaker 3: outside that by bringing Canberra and you know you can
[19:32] Speaker 3: get a special approval number which but otherwise, yeah, you
[19:35] Speaker 3: got to do a week at a time. As you
[19:37] Speaker 3: come back, we do another one, or we interview with
[19:39] Speaker 3: the phone to make sure you need it, but we
[19:41] Speaker 3: know it's in certain cludlines. You know you need a
[19:44] Speaker 3: course and that's actually recommended within the prescription cludlines that
[19:48] Speaker 3: we have.
[19:49] Speaker 1: So you have to sort of sit around and make
[19:50] Speaker 1: sure you're on top of all the regulatory environment as
[19:53] Speaker 1: well as all the diagnostic environment, as well as all
[19:56] Speaker 1: the treatment environment and also the rehab environment.
[20:00] Speaker 3: Yeah, and in some respects what we do is we
[20:03] Speaker 3: exceed the expectation because sometimes it's gray, but there can
[20:08] Speaker 3: be gray areas. And then retrospectively, a governing body that
[20:11] Speaker 3: you might have realized had a hand in that in
[20:14] Speaker 3: the in the maintenance of that particular thing come in
[20:16] Speaker 3: and so you've got to be careful, Yeah, the effectively
[20:20] Speaker 3: or you can be audited you care Yeah. There's a
[20:22] Speaker 3: whole lot of different investigative things that can go on
[20:26] Speaker 3: from all different sort of regulatory bodies in Australia.
[20:29] Speaker 2: Wow, do you think that I don't.
[20:32] Speaker 1: I mean, we're not here to criticize any regulatory bodies
[20:35] Speaker 1: at all. Mean, the system is the system, and if
[20:37] Speaker 1: we don't know the system, we move. But do you
[20:40] Speaker 1: think that that there are other environments which may be
[20:44] Speaker 1: getting ahead of us on a global scale and getting
[20:46] Speaker 1: ahead of us, ahead of us relative to regeneration and
[20:50] Speaker 1: rehab and maybe even helping us live longer and orbly,
[20:55] Speaker 1: not longer necessarily, but better.
[20:58] Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, look adapt to say absolutely there are areas
[21:01] Speaker 3: where you can go and you can get unregulated products.
[21:05] Speaker 3: Sometimes that could be good. You take an unregulated product
[21:08] Speaker 3: into your system, is that going to be good? Is
[21:10] Speaker 3: certainly more experimental, and they've got a lot more latitude
[21:13] Speaker 3: to experiments. So the classic thing would be, say stem cell,
[21:18] Speaker 3: so you can go over to the Caribbean and you
[21:20] Speaker 3: get stem cell this Panama and Panama. That's right. I
[21:24] Speaker 3: have I have patients that have been over there and
[21:26] Speaker 3: had types of stem cell that we don't have available here.
[21:30] Speaker 3: And there's even there's there's a really tough environment in
[21:34] Speaker 3: terms of even talking about stem cell in Australia. Really yes,
[21:38] Speaker 3: that's right. So it can be that that can sort
[21:41] Speaker 3: of suppress us a little bit. And I suppose this
[21:44] Speaker 3: comes down to the argument. I mean, science divorced from
[21:47] Speaker 3: religion in the before the Renaissance, and then when it
[21:50] Speaker 3: did it there was this flourished So now we've got
[21:54] Speaker 3: science which is being influenced by regulatory bodies and in
[21:59] Speaker 3: some way political agenda sometimes, and how much of that
[22:03] Speaker 3: is over each how much of that is appropriate? Well,
[22:06] Speaker 3: that's something that you.
[22:06] Speaker 2: Know, other people made decisions about it.
[22:10] Speaker 3: That's right. People that you don't know made the decision.
[22:12] Speaker 3: Whereas you know, when we prescribe a treatment, as you
[22:15] Speaker 3: and me chatting about it, and it's it's very personal.
[22:18] Speaker 3: But these are often faceless people making decisions.
[22:21] Speaker 1: So if you're and you and I talked about this
[22:25] Speaker 1: the other day, if you're let's say you're over fifty,
[22:31] Speaker 1: and if you're trying to live a really strict life,
[22:36] Speaker 1: I mean I'm talking about in terms of sleep, nutrition, exercise.
[22:39] Speaker 1: I mean when I say strict, I mean regulated life
[22:43] Speaker 1: in order, your objective being that you want to live
[22:46] Speaker 1: too much older than you know, the average Australian MAHA
[22:49] Speaker 1: does live. In other words, you're giving yourself a fighting chance,
[22:51] Speaker 1: your best chance. And how important is it in terms
[23:00] Speaker 1: of our how we live our life out and particularly
[23:04] Speaker 1: how we exercise, that we don't go and break something
[23:10] Speaker 1: in terms of the setback we get from these things.
[23:12] Speaker 1: Like you know, I'm a good example, I mean I've
[23:14] Speaker 1: taught my bicep this time last year, off the bone,
[23:18] Speaker 1: off the ten, and off the barn.
[23:19] Speaker 2: I to my trip two or three years ago. You know, overreaching.
[23:24] Speaker 1: What I mean by overreaching, I don't mean by reaching,
[23:26] Speaker 1: but I mean overreaching probably my capacity relative to my
[23:29] Speaker 1: age and the person I was competing against, you know,
[23:34] Speaker 1: in other words, are putting ability, enthusiasm and head of
[23:40] Speaker 1: ability age related?
[23:42] Speaker 2: Of course? But how important is it for us to
[23:46] Speaker 2: be mindfully this stuff?
[23:47] Speaker 1: In you or an authopedic guy, like, how important is
[23:49] Speaker 1: for us to be mind for the center?
[23:50] Speaker 2: Because and in that the setback we get.
[23:53] Speaker 1: I mean, for example, my bicet muscle now shorter than
[23:57] Speaker 1: my left bicep, is shorter my right by sept and
[23:58] Speaker 1: are probably never.
[23:59] Speaker 2: Going to grow back, you know, like as we get older.
[24:02] Speaker 1: Unless you have access to all these things in Panama, etcetera.
[24:05] Speaker 1: These things just more observation. I'm not a scientist, but
[24:09] Speaker 1: it seems like it's never going to grow back, and
[24:12] Speaker 1: as much it's still as strong or nearly strong, but
[24:14] Speaker 1: it just doesn't just won't grow. And if we don't
[24:17] Speaker 1: grow back, we have a change in our balance between
[24:22] Speaker 1: the two sides. I'm different now and once, so I
[24:24] Speaker 1: compet to the other side and I have to make
[24:25] Speaker 1: adjustments as a result of it. How important is it
[24:30] Speaker 1: for us to be as if you're talking to me
[24:32] Speaker 1: as a surgeon, is for me to be mindful of
[24:33] Speaker 1: how I train and you know how I exercise. In
[24:37] Speaker 1: other words, don't mark, don't go and lift something as
[24:39] Speaker 1: way too heavy.
[24:41] Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a That's a really interesting question, isn't it.
[24:43] Speaker 3: Because when you're young, you're sort of pushing through the
[24:46] Speaker 3: pain barrier, and you look at someone like Arnold Schwarzne
[24:48] Speaker 3: if you want to be beefed up like that guy, Well,
[24:51] Speaker 3: you do have to push yourself really hard. And but
[24:53] Speaker 3: as you get older, you do I start to take
[24:55] Speaker 3: notice of things and you've got to adjust accordingly. You
[24:59] Speaker 3: can't be a young person when you're an old person
[25:02] Speaker 3: with out current technology. And as you say, like you
[25:04] Speaker 3: get an injury, and injuries are accumulative. In biology, one
[25:08] Speaker 3: plus one doesn't necessarily call two. You know, you you
[25:11] Speaker 3: can get a bad leg and you limp around on
[25:13] Speaker 3: then your opposite side goes because it takes more load.
[25:16] Speaker 3: So I think it's very important to be selective. I
[25:19] Speaker 3: think it's very important to watch the range and the
[25:21] Speaker 3: extremes of movements. When you so I like to do weights,
[25:25] Speaker 3: you know you like to do weights. I think you're
[25:27] Speaker 3: better not to go to the extremes of your capability.
[25:30] Speaker 3: In terms of your range. You need to shorten that down.
[25:33] Speaker 3: You need to watch your impact. And particularly I know
[25:36] Speaker 3: that you do a lot of martial arts, and I
[25:39] Speaker 3: like hitting against Larry, but I like him and Larry,
[25:42] Speaker 3: I don't like Larry hitting me, right, That's yeah, Larry,
[25:48] Speaker 3: that is a leg scary. It looks like you can
[25:50] Speaker 3: really do some damage on you. But it does inspire
[25:53] Speaker 3: you to to try harder. And I think you've got
[25:55] Speaker 3: to get You're right, You've got to get that balance.
[25:57] Speaker 3: An injury that sets you back is you know, you
[26:00] Speaker 3: six save weeks out or ten weeks, and you become
[26:02] Speaker 3: a different version of yourself as you get older. Young people,
[26:05] Speaker 3: because they've got so many more stem cells, I think
[26:08] Speaker 3: they seem to be able to adjust as so an
[26:10] Speaker 3: injury when you're younger it's under twenty, is totally different
[26:13] Speaker 3: to an injury that you have when you're over fifty,
[26:15] Speaker 3: which is often an operation, right, And that's where you
[26:18] Speaker 3: want to stay out of, is having that operation to
[26:20] Speaker 3: get better.
[26:21] Speaker 2: Yeah, and so would you say that.
[26:26] Speaker 1: If an individual over fifty is trying to build a program,
[26:32] Speaker 1: as I said, in this sort of strict regime that
[26:34] Speaker 1: is exercise, sleep and nutrition. But on the exercise part
[26:39] Speaker 1: of it should is does their age inform them as
[26:44] Speaker 1: to how hard they go on exercise?
[26:46] Speaker 2: In other words, and if.
[26:47] Speaker 1: You're a trainer, I think there's no point when you're
[26:51] Speaker 1: over a certain age anyway. Maybe you know, fifty is
[26:53] Speaker 1: not the number, could be fifty five, forty five, whatever
[26:55] Speaker 1: should it's individualized.
[26:58] Speaker 2: But these guys say to me.
[27:00] Speaker 1: Oh, mate, you know I went to failure on every
[27:03] Speaker 1: set and this guy just completely punished me as exhausted
[27:06] Speaker 1: when I walked out of the gym. And what that
[27:12] Speaker 1: tells me, informs me of is that well, if you're
[27:15] Speaker 1: that exhausted and you're doing you're going to failure, that
[27:17] Speaker 1: tells me that your form isn't probably perfect and forms
[27:21] Speaker 1: when injuries occur, you know, like the people do it
[27:24] Speaker 1: back of hip, an arm and shot neck. Whatever the case,
[27:26] Speaker 1: you can do anything. So age should inform us that
[27:33] Speaker 1: don't go to a failure and avoid injury in a
[27:38] Speaker 1: common sense way. I mean, I don't need you know,
[27:41] Speaker 1: we don't need to consult our authopetic surgeon. What would
[27:44] Speaker 1: you say to those individuals about how they should approach
[27:48] Speaker 1: their training program, Well.
[27:50] Speaker 3: I would I would look at just so you're doing weights,
[27:53] Speaker 3: for example, and you're one hundred percent ride. You want
[27:55] Speaker 3: to have perfect form every single set, and if you
[27:57] Speaker 3: get into fatigue and you're wobbling, now you don't want
[28:00] Speaker 3: to have forbid drop the weight on yourself, so you
[28:03] Speaker 3: would drop down the weight. So if you want to
[28:05] Speaker 3: go to fatigue, go to fatigue with a lower weight
[28:08] Speaker 3: for example. The other example you see that kind of
[28:11] Speaker 3: thing happen is box jumps and people jump up onto
[28:14] Speaker 3: a box and they're trying to go to fatigue and
[28:16] Speaker 3: the last one they jump down and they're weak and
[28:18] Speaker 3: then they fall over and they break their ankle or
[28:21] Speaker 3: they rupture a ligament or you know, it's you've got
[28:24] Speaker 3: to be careful with that, particularly as you get older,
[28:26] Speaker 3: but even when you're younger, you know perfect form is
[28:28] Speaker 3: the way to go. And if you want to do that,
[28:31] Speaker 3: do you want to get that feeling that you've gone
[28:32] Speaker 3: to complete failure? The last one should be like just
[28:36] Speaker 3: five kilos or two kilos. They a very low weight
[28:38] Speaker 3: with more repetitions and narrow down that exercise field, so
[28:42] Speaker 3: you're doing them sort of closer together maybe.
[28:45] Speaker 1: And can you explain the importance then of resistance work
[28:49] Speaker 1: relative to our bone mass.
[28:51] Speaker 3: So it's well demonstrated that you need to maintain you
[28:56] Speaker 3: You want to maintain your bone mass as you get older,
[28:58] Speaker 3: like you, you don't want to be product And a
[29:00] Speaker 3: lot of ladies get osteoporosis as they get older.
[29:03] Speaker 2: Men get it too, Do they men get it as well?
[29:05] Speaker 1: Yeah?
[29:05] Speaker 3: So's there's a great law where form follows functions. So
[29:09] Speaker 3: if you stimulate your bones, they're more likely to remain
[29:12] Speaker 3: strong and hard and last longer into your life. One
[29:17] Speaker 3: of the classic things happens to yet falling over and
[29:19] Speaker 3: getting fractures as you're getting older, and that's a great tragedy,
[29:23] Speaker 3: particularly hip fractures. So hip fracture generally leads to you know,
[29:26] Speaker 3: we have this saying in through the hips, out through
[29:29] Speaker 3: the hips. So a hip fracture often is a terminal event,
[29:32] Speaker 3: you know, within a relatively short period of time.
[29:34] Speaker 1: Now I've heard stats over sixty five there's a percentage
[29:37] Speaker 1: of people who die within eighty months or something like that.
[29:39] Speaker 2: Or two years.
[29:39] Speaker 3: That's right. Yeah, So if you look at I mean,
[29:41] Speaker 3: we had this great device called an oster Moore, which
[29:44] Speaker 3: was a pretty rudimentary device when you had a fractured hip.
[29:48] Speaker 3: And the interesting thing about it you look at it
[29:50] Speaker 3: and from a mechanical point of view, you think this
[29:52] Speaker 3: thing's going to fail. But they were very rarely revised,
[29:56] Speaker 3: and the reason was that the person died before the
[29:58] Speaker 3: revision of them. Unfortunately. See you do see that. So
[30:03] Speaker 3: maintaining your bone mass is incredibly I.
[30:05] Speaker 2: To work Gordon Lake.
[30:06] Speaker 1: So I don't want to get into too much of
[30:09] Speaker 1: the science of it, or the chemistry or the biolage
[30:11] Speaker 1: of it. But if I've got let's say I'm doing
[30:15] Speaker 1: a squad or let's say I'm doing a deadlift, probably
[30:17] Speaker 1: be more realistic. How does that help my bone mass, say,
[30:21] Speaker 1: my legs and hips and wherever it is. How does
[30:24] Speaker 1: lifting a weight allow my bone to stay bigger or stronger,
[30:31] Speaker 1: or more solid or whatever the case may be.
[30:33] Speaker 3: Well, it stimulates that there's a stimulation on the bone,
[30:36] Speaker 3: so the muscles are attached to the bone, and so
[30:38] Speaker 3: then the bone is under stress. So the stress leads
[30:41] Speaker 3: to a reaction willing to Wolf's law, which is form
[30:44] Speaker 3: follows functions. So the bone goes, hey, i've it to
[30:46] Speaker 3: be stronger, so then adapts accordingly.
[30:49] Speaker 2: So it's adapt adadaptation apps.
[30:51] Speaker 3: But you don't even even for the elderly, just coming
[30:54] Speaker 3: out and walking, walking brist walking is very very good
[30:57] Speaker 3: and they.
[30:58] Speaker 2: Ease there's pressure.
[30:58] Speaker 1: You're putting pressure on your bones both dropping your foot
[31:00] Speaker 1: on the grid exactly.
[31:01] Speaker 3: That's right. So you know, exercise emotion as you get older,
[31:05] Speaker 3: it doesn't have to be that much. Even even tho
[31:08] Speaker 3: they did studies with pictures, they did little jumps on
[31:10] Speaker 3: the ground. They found that that led to stimulation of
[31:12] Speaker 3: the bone. So there's there's quite a few things that
[31:14] Speaker 3: you can do. But the stress, your body will adapt,
[31:18] Speaker 3: just like your your bones will adapt to that stress
[31:20] Speaker 3: that you're doing with the squad, just as your muscles
[31:22] Speaker 3: will adapt to the They get stressed and they go, okay,
[31:26] Speaker 3: I've got to be bigger, and then you get certain
[31:28] Speaker 3: amount of tearing bones a bit different than that, but
[31:31] Speaker 3: then the muscle hypertrophies becomes bigger and you get the
[31:34] Speaker 3: result that you want that you're stronger.
[31:36] Speaker 1: So and I guess the inverse of that or the
[31:40] Speaker 1: reverse that is is that if you don't stimulate whatever
[31:46] Speaker 1: the process is through stress on your skeleton, on your bones. Therefore,
[31:54] Speaker 1: the bones over time will say, well, look I'm not
[31:56] Speaker 1: being used anymore. I don't really have any use to you.
[31:58] Speaker 1: I will start to thin or the oostria pros get
[32:02] Speaker 1: smaller or get thinner, in which case that presents to
[32:06] Speaker 1: any one of us, particularly over a certain age, presents
[32:10] Speaker 1: to us a risk because that particular bone, if it
[32:14] Speaker 1: falls or gets knocked or somehow has some other trauma
[32:18] Speaker 1: applied to it, could create could put you in a
[32:20] Speaker 1: position where you know it's broken. Is that how the
[32:23] Speaker 1: theory works? Is that how I would roll it out?
[32:26] Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right. So when you a bonus, it thins.
[32:29] Speaker 3: And you can see this in surgery. So surgery is
[32:31] Speaker 3: a classic thing and that's training of people to wait
[32:34] Speaker 3: very early. So we know that say, for example, your quadriceps,
[32:37] Speaker 3: if you take a day off and don't put any
[32:40] Speaker 3: load through your legs, So if you have surgery and
[32:42] Speaker 3: you can't wait, then you lose for every day that
[32:45] Speaker 3: you're off, you they could take you four days to
[32:46] Speaker 3: recover that quadrceps mass. We recover the muscle mass that's right,
[32:50] Speaker 3: your muscle mass. And then when you go to the
[32:52] Speaker 3: foot ankle and you go to the calf, and you know,
[32:54] Speaker 3: I talked to people about this, you know, with the
[32:55] Speaker 3: calf muscle exos. Once your carp gets wasted, it takes
[33:00] Speaker 3: it quite a long time to do that. And you
[33:02] Speaker 3: look at people like Arnold Schwazen, you know, he almost
[33:05] Speaker 3: lost mister Universe one year because of his carp musculator
[33:09] Speaker 3: and they and then he came back the next year
[33:11] Speaker 3: and they said, how's your calf so good? And he
[33:13] Speaker 3: went two hundred ANDAs like two hundred and eighty, like
[33:17] Speaker 3: mindless calf exercises. So some muscle groups very important for
[33:23] Speaker 3: your load bearing and for your mobility, and they waste
[33:26] Speaker 3: quite quickly and they're very hard to come back, which
[33:28] Speaker 3: is a challenge in injuries.
[33:30] Speaker 1: It's very interesting because I remember when I had one
[33:32] Speaker 1: in my arm, my bicep tour last year. I had
[33:39] Speaker 1: a sling for a while, a long while, as you imagine,
[33:43] Speaker 1: but when I eventually got to sling, it looked like
[33:45] Speaker 1: my grandson's aren't like a little skinny little arm.
[33:47] Speaker 2: And it took me forever to rebuild it.
[33:51] Speaker 1: You know that my strength was like twenty percent of
[33:54] Speaker 1: what it was prior to that, or relative to my
[33:57] Speaker 1: right now.
[33:57] Speaker 2: For example.
[33:59] Speaker 1: One of the things that I was told though, and
[34:01] Speaker 1: I don't know if it's true or not, that when
[34:04] Speaker 1: your arm is in this thing you can't do any
[34:06] Speaker 1: work with it. If you exercise your right arm, somehow
[34:09] Speaker 1: it transfers across to your left arm as well. In
[34:12] Speaker 1: other words, that's quite beneficial for the arm that you
[34:16] Speaker 1: can't use. There's some sort of transfer across. Is that
[34:19] Speaker 1: a thing or am I imagining it? Or is that
[34:21] Speaker 1: some gym story?
[34:23] Speaker 3: Well, there's Look, there's a certain truth in that. I
[34:26] Speaker 3: think that if you usos the other one, there is
[34:28] Speaker 3: some sort of translation. And if you look at there
[34:31] Speaker 3: was there's a there was a football team in the
[34:35] Speaker 3: US where they just did squats and they found that
[34:38] Speaker 3: they do any other essos, they found that all of
[34:40] Speaker 3: their musculars got bigger just from squats. So there is
[34:43] Speaker 3: a certain amount of stimulation and doorpherin release and growth
[34:47] Speaker 3: on then release that will interact with your other muscles.
[34:51] Speaker 3: I'm not sure of the exact figure that what you
[34:53] Speaker 3: would do, but that would be an interesting study to
[34:55] Speaker 3: see if we could we could see that.
[34:57] Speaker 1: And could ask you just in relation to resistance work,
[35:02] Speaker 1: we often not don't often talk about the the neural connections,
[35:07] Speaker 1: in other words, and all the other glands like the
[35:09] Speaker 1: adrenaline and the adrenal glands and those things that are
[35:11] Speaker 1: all producing chemicals all the time when you're doing let's
[35:14] Speaker 1: let's call it deadlifts for argum, and say, how how
[35:21] Speaker 1: is the neural pathways? And hopefully I'm not asking the
[35:25] Speaker 1: right maybe you're asking the wrong person. Maybe we're doing
[35:28] Speaker 1: in neurologis neuroscientists, but you know that there's nervous systems
[35:32] Speaker 1: as you obviously have to move nerves out of the way
[35:34] Speaker 1: when you operate on somebody. How do they how do
[35:38] Speaker 1: they deal with load when it comes to exercising, and
[35:41] Speaker 1: how do you sort of train those neural pathways to
[35:44] Speaker 1: be able to accept the loads that you're putting on them,
[35:47] Speaker 1: you know, because you're you know, you've got to lift
[35:49] Speaker 1: something and it's pretty heavy in your brain says shit
[35:51] Speaker 1: sends a message straight down to your legs and you
[35:53] Speaker 1: maybe your glutes, you know, and maybe a grip or
[35:55] Speaker 1: something like this is pretty heavy. How important is it
[35:59] Speaker 1: for us to train neural pathways and maybe even give
[36:01] Speaker 1: it a rest, like you know, because sometimes you feel
[36:04] Speaker 1: I feel exhausted after doing a session like a weight session,
[36:10] Speaker 1: and I feel more exhausted in my mind than I
[36:13] Speaker 1: do my body.
[36:14] Speaker 3: Yeah, what's that about? That's that's an interesting thing we've
[36:19] Speaker 3: I've got a one of our researchers is from Oxford
[36:22] Speaker 3: University JS well actually privately, so I've got a private
[36:29] Speaker 3: group that we research for various scenes and this goes
[36:32] Speaker 3: from Oxford, and I was asking him that very question.
[36:35] Speaker 3: I think that that that's an interesting thing. Like even
[36:37] Speaker 3: a team that goes out and they look sluggish in
[36:40] Speaker 3: grand finally you think, well, what's that about? So it
[36:42] Speaker 3: can be like almost a team thing that happens. And
[36:45] Speaker 3: you certainly say that with yourself. Sometimes you go to
[36:47] Speaker 3: the gym and now you feel powerful and you seem
[36:51] Speaker 3: to be able to push aways really well. And as
[36:53] Speaker 3: a minder, it is some I guess mind of a
[36:56] Speaker 3: matter type thing like that. If you think you can
[36:58] Speaker 3: do it, you have sometimes can do it. And you
[37:01] Speaker 3: see that in competitive sports. You've done competitive sports and
[37:04] Speaker 3: sometimes you go out and you you absolutely nail it
[37:07] Speaker 3: and you think you have played well. And then other
[37:08] Speaker 3: times you go out and you feel, you know, what's
[37:10] Speaker 3: the difference on the days.
[37:11] Speaker 1: I'm like that, but yeah, in competition's right, Yeah, I know,
[37:15] Speaker 1: And it's it's an interesting thing.
[37:17] Speaker 3: I think that it's that is there's something ural. There's
[37:20] Speaker 3: probably a combination of hormonal things that are going on
[37:23] Speaker 3: in your mind. You had a good night's sleep, other
[37:25] Speaker 3: factors that are coming into play, so you know you're
[37:27] Speaker 3: more than just a machine. You know, you reacted on
[37:31] Speaker 3: by various things. So like I find it. I go
[37:33] Speaker 3: to the gym and I'm I've got something that I'm
[37:36] Speaker 3: thinking about or I'm per placed about, and I'm not concentrating.
[37:39] Speaker 3: You've seeing anything. I've been here for ten minutes. I
[37:41] Speaker 3: haven't done anything. So yeah, I guess what I'm interested
[37:45] Speaker 3: in is is there a neural pathway that we can
[37:48] Speaker 3: develop or at least get people find out what allowed
[37:52] Speaker 3: them to achieve a really great result in sport or
[37:55] Speaker 3: maybe in the boardroom wherever it was, and then see
[37:58] Speaker 3: if we can prep them in that way from a
[38:00] Speaker 3: psychological point of view in order to achieve that. And
[38:03] Speaker 3: that's only where we're going to start to look at.
[38:06] Speaker 3: It's our next actual research idea. And I think that
[38:09] Speaker 3: you're right, like you some days you're just like fabulous
[38:13] Speaker 3: and then other days you're not. If you watch the
[38:15] Speaker 3: rock in the gym and know whether you've seen him,
[38:17] Speaker 3: and he's just he's just yelling at himself. Focus and
[38:20] Speaker 3: you know, you get that like it's we get there
[38:22] Speaker 3: and we're not focused.
[38:24] Speaker 2: I think is a lot of the time preoccupied.
[38:26] Speaker 3: We're preoccupied. And I think when you look at any
[38:29] Speaker 3: great sports guys, Dogovich, you see them, you see them
[38:33] Speaker 3: they really focus on the job. You know, most of
[38:35] Speaker 3: them are very focused and they're not so much distracted
[38:39] Speaker 3: and sometimes not very humorous guys, you know when they're
[38:41] Speaker 3: playing right.
[38:42] Speaker 2: Well, it's because it's interesting because we keep getting told sleep, nutrition,
[38:46] Speaker 2: and exercise, which makes sense.
[38:49] Speaker 1: But what everyone forgets is that most of us got
[38:51] Speaker 1: a job. So let's say we exercise in the morning
[38:55] Speaker 1: and then we've got a job to go to and
[38:58] Speaker 1: then we know very few of us can and you know,
[39:01] Speaker 1: like I see some of the commentators, but very few
[39:04] Speaker 1: of us can do two or three hours, do it
[39:05] Speaker 1: whenever we feel like it.
[39:06] Speaker 2: During the day.
[39:07] Speaker 1: You know, we have a regulated life, very structured. We
[39:10] Speaker 1: go to the gym in the morning, perhaps we might
[39:12] Speaker 1: go at night. But if we go in the morning
[39:15] Speaker 1: and we have a hard work out, it could be resistance, work,
[39:18] Speaker 1: could be whatever it is. We're also going to go
[39:20] Speaker 1: to work and be our best version of ourselves in
[39:23] Speaker 1: the office. We can't sort of say at levenocolis and
[39:26] Speaker 1: lights out, everyone, I'm going to go and have a sleep,
[39:29] Speaker 1: you know, because you might have a board meeting, could
[39:31] Speaker 1: have somebody coming up, you could have a client you've
[39:33] Speaker 1: got to see, you know, who knows what it is.
[39:35] Speaker 1: And in our exercise environment, you don't want to neurologically
[39:40] Speaker 1: wreck yourself so that you can't do anything down the track.
[39:43] Speaker 1: It'd be really interesting to see what your research comes
[39:46] Speaker 1: up with in this regard, because I think it's a constraint,
[39:49] Speaker 1: because I think a lot of people aren't healthy because
[39:52] Speaker 1: they don't go through the exercise environment because they get
[39:55] Speaker 1: They say, I don't want I can't excite for we
[39:57] Speaker 1: go to work as it wears me out. I need
[39:59] Speaker 1: to be the best version of self during the day
[40:00] Speaker 1: at work, and then by the time the afternoon comes
[40:03] Speaker 1: you're still working on stuff, and then you're so muddy
[40:06] Speaker 1: tired from your work all days, particularly over a certain
[40:09] Speaker 1: age over fifty sort of thing. You don't go to
[40:13] Speaker 1: the gym at night, or if you do go, you
[40:14] Speaker 1: don't do a.
[40:14] Speaker 2: Proper session because you're too.
[40:16] Speaker 1: Tired, or you're not at your best version of yourself
[40:19] Speaker 1: relative to the gym, which is me, Like, I'm the
[40:21] Speaker 1: best version of myself relative in the gym first thing
[40:23] Speaker 1: in the morning.
[40:24] Speaker 2: But I've got to be careful.
[40:25] Speaker 1: I don't overdo it and getting tight trading this stuff
[40:28] Speaker 1: like getting it right. It's very difficult because all we
[40:33] Speaker 1: know is what we feel, as opposed to anybody telling us. Mark,
[40:38] Speaker 1: you know you should only be doing four sets of
[40:41] Speaker 1: three at eighty percent of your max because scientifically, anything
[40:48] Speaker 1: beyond that is going to neurologically affect you, and you're
[40:52] Speaker 1: probably going to go to work worn out, and you
[40:55] Speaker 1: might get a hit of coffee straight after the gym.
[40:57] Speaker 1: You might have your protein shape wherever it is. You
[40:59] Speaker 1: might be good for a couple of hours. When all
[41:01] Speaker 1: that shit wears off, you're going to be some par
[41:05] Speaker 1: and none of us can afford to be some par
[41:07] Speaker 1: in a work environment, particularly someone like you, by the way,
[41:10] Speaker 1: because you know, if you're operating on me, I want
[41:13] Speaker 1: you to.
[41:13] Speaker 2: Be above par.
[41:15] Speaker 1: I don't want you to be buggered, you know, Like,
[41:17] Speaker 1: so what do you think about that? I mean, what
[41:19] Speaker 1: would you say to somebody about that? And I know
[41:21] Speaker 1: it's not not a strength in training exercise expert, but
[41:25] Speaker 1: just just reflecting on that as an orthopedic guy, what
[41:29] Speaker 1: do you think about that?
[41:30] Speaker 2: And how would you guide someone around that territory.
[41:33] Speaker 3: It's interesting is when I had downed the gym, you know,
[41:36] Speaker 3: I look around and see people exercise in certain ways
[41:39] Speaker 3: and I think you're definitely going to end up with
[41:40] Speaker 3: an injury at your age doing that now. They are
[41:43] Speaker 3: poor formed, maybe they haven't been taught how to do
[41:45] Speaker 3: that exercise or whatever it is. And then when I'm
[41:48] Speaker 3: doing it, I'm always thinking about, you know, how my
[41:51] Speaker 3: joint's feeling, and I adjust my weights according to how
[41:55] Speaker 3: I feel on the day. So some days now you
[41:57] Speaker 3: might find you've done a lot of excise in us
[42:00] Speaker 3: or so. And it's a changing environment. Like as you say,
[42:03] Speaker 3: there's one fact that you know that is constantly changing.
[42:06] Speaker 3: You're getting older, and as you're getting older that your
[42:10] Speaker 3: capability to recover is declining. And it's not necessarily that
[42:14] Speaker 3: it's a linear digression. It's in some ways it can
[42:17] Speaker 3: be you have these sudden changes as your stem cell number,
[42:22] Speaker 3: their capability, and their and their actual physical number are declining,
[42:26] Speaker 3: and you might recognize it. So I think that you
[42:29] Speaker 3: know you need to be constantly monitoring it, particularly what
[42:31] Speaker 3: is your main focus. So I front end thing. So
[42:35] Speaker 3: like as you say, you know, if you I find
[42:37] Speaker 3: that if I don't go to the gym early on,
[42:39] Speaker 3: I won't go at night.
[42:40] Speaker 2: You know I'm that same because you get.
[42:42] Speaker 3: Tired right in about three or four o'clock. You know,
[42:44] Speaker 3: your cortisols dropping off, and your body is ready for
[42:48] Speaker 3: you to have an app As you get older, as
[42:50] Speaker 3: you say, so, you know you might you're hopefully senior enough.
[42:54] Speaker 3: You know, you're definitely senior enough that you try to
[42:57] Speaker 3: work that important meeting at a different time. In medicine,
[43:00] Speaker 3: it's a little bit harder because we're not necessarily got
[43:03] Speaker 3: a sort of work environment that is regulated and that
[43:08] Speaker 3: things come out of left field. But you're right, you know,
[43:11] Speaker 3: we can't have a bad A surgeon anywhere in the
[43:14] Speaker 3: world can't have a bad minute. You know, a bad
[43:16] Speaker 3: minute leads a potential catastrophic failure. So I would say
[43:20] Speaker 3: that you know, just about every surgeon has their own
[43:22] Speaker 3: strategy around it. Most of it comes down to, you know,
[43:25] Speaker 3: there's certain things you don't do. You know, you wake
[43:27] Speaker 3: out on a big night during the week, you know,
[43:29] Speaker 3: like it's it's like game night, right, it's surgery side there.
[43:32] Speaker 3: You know, there's your focus and it's overwhelming. And then
[43:36] Speaker 3: after that you try to get strategies to de stress afterwards,
[43:39] Speaker 3: because you've got to be able to do that as well.
[43:42] Speaker 2: So that's can I ask you now about.
[43:46] Speaker 3: So I.
[43:48] Speaker 1: Don't mind explaining this, but an injury in my glute,
[43:55] Speaker 1: like I can't remember exactly what it goes, the glute
[43:58] Speaker 1: minimus is torn off, the marshall tear you I'm wrong
[44:01] Speaker 1: on the glub medius. And then there's what's this thing
[44:04] Speaker 1: abductor partially and an abductor.
[44:07] Speaker 2: And I did it from falling. I fell at Christmas time, so.
[44:13] Speaker 1: And of course I walked around for about eight weeks
[44:15] Speaker 1: or six seven weeks without realizing this, and I was
[44:18] Speaker 1: but I was wondering why I couldn't sleep at night.
[44:21] Speaker 1: I'm an idiot not coming to see someone earlier. But anyway,
[44:25] Speaker 1: as I had it, our paths crossed and I saw
[44:29] Speaker 1: you first thing you got me to do was go
[44:30] Speaker 1: get an AMRI machine, get an amur and next reaction
[44:34] Speaker 1: to make sure I hadn't broken any or chipped any
[44:36] Speaker 1: or fraction anything. Fortunately there was no hip the bones
[44:40] Speaker 1: or structural problems apart from those three things I mentioned.
[44:45] Speaker 1: And what happens when people tear tendons or part probably
[44:52] Speaker 1: normally tended.
[44:53] Speaker 2: If you tear it and I guess what you suppose
[44:54] Speaker 2: it was, reattach it were that.
[44:56] Speaker 3: It depends which one it is. So you write your biceps,
[44:59] Speaker 3: you know that's one you want to reattach or achilles
[45:02] Speaker 3: tend There's critical muscles that have got to be reattached,
[45:05] Speaker 3: and then something like your gluty's minimus. It's a very hard,
[45:08] Speaker 3: being very invasive thing to go and reattach. So you've
[45:11] Speaker 3: got to kind of, I guess, put that against the
[45:14] Speaker 3: patient's age and their capabilities, and whether it's a new
[45:17] Speaker 3: injury and old injury. Old injuries are harder to get
[45:20] Speaker 3: to come back than newer injuries, So it depends on
[45:24] Speaker 3: where it is and how old it is and how
[45:26] Speaker 3: old the patient is.
[45:27] Speaker 2: So if it's a partial tear, though, you should heal
[45:30] Speaker 2: itself with that.
[45:30] Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, most places, most places your body are partial
[45:34] Speaker 3: terar would be able to heal itself. Depending on your age,
[45:37] Speaker 3: sometimes you're going to become chronic tender knopthies and surgeries
[45:41] Speaker 3: are indicated, but most of the time they'll heal themselves.
[45:44] Speaker 1: And then there is a protocol called PRP. I don't
[45:48] Speaker 1: even know what it stands for, but can you explain
[45:49] Speaker 1: what PRP is?
[45:51] Speaker 3: So platelet rich plasma, So that is where we get
[45:55] Speaker 3: your blood and we spin it in specialized bottles and
[45:58] Speaker 3: out of that we get a concert trade and within
[46:01] Speaker 3: the playlists there's alpha and beta granules with plant derived
[46:04] Speaker 3: growth factor, and that's one of the initial pathways in
[46:08] Speaker 3: order to get your body to heal. The other thing
[46:11] Speaker 3: is that just even plasma plasma has eighty nine ME
[46:14] Speaker 3: and different different proteins that haven't been probably identified. Some
[46:17] Speaker 3: of those probably pretty useful in the healing process, so
[46:20] Speaker 3: that you can inject that into tendons or certain areas
[46:24] Speaker 3: like joints. Arthriders are three D joints, and it seems
[46:27] Speaker 3: it's an emerging technology. There are studies for it and
[46:30] Speaker 3: there's studies against it. My experience is that it's been
[46:34] Speaker 3: very a very useful product for the management of certain conditions.
[46:39] Speaker 1: So just on that then, I think, and you'll tell me.
[46:48] Speaker 1: In relation to tendons healing, we need blood flow. And
[46:54] Speaker 1: one of the reasons tendons and even stuff between our
[47:02] Speaker 1: joints doesn't heal it well is because we don't. Those
[47:05] Speaker 1: areas don't have much blood flow around them. And therefore,
[47:09] Speaker 1: and normally your own blood would have all these goodies
[47:11] Speaker 1: in there and they would heal it for you itself.
[47:14] Speaker 2: Like give us a partial.
[47:15] Speaker 1: Tear is the reason that you do. You hit the tendon,
[47:21] Speaker 1: and believe me, I as you know, I've had it.
[47:23] Speaker 1: I didn't have it for you, and I've had it
[47:24] Speaker 1: from before, and it can be quite painful because it
[47:27] Speaker 1: goes right into the injury. But nonetheless, the I guess
[47:33] Speaker 1: the hypothesis behind it is that because it's not of
[47:36] Speaker 1: blood getting around that ten, and we will put the platelets,
[47:38] Speaker 1: the plate rich pup so it looks like it's quite thick,
[47:48] Speaker 1: but we'll put that right into the ten and so
[47:49] Speaker 1: it gets to enjoy what other parts of the body
[47:52] Speaker 1: get to enjoy where there's lots of blood flow.
[47:53] Speaker 2: Is that the sort of hypothesis around it.
[47:55] Speaker 3: Yeah, Look, I think when you look at the different
[47:58] Speaker 3: theories that are behind that. What we've what I've been
[48:02] Speaker 3: looking at is the different medalitsy we've got and I
[48:05] Speaker 3: put that in a regenerative medicine field PRP, and i'd
[48:08] Speaker 3: put that as a triggering agent. So you've got cells
[48:12] Speaker 3: that are not actively involved in your healing. So if
[48:16] Speaker 3: you look at as you're getting older, some of the
[48:18] Speaker 3: cells that you've got there, they're not including a lower
[48:21] Speaker 3: blood supply, but they're also I call them the gray horses.
[48:24] Speaker 3: So you got some cells that are very active and
[48:27] Speaker 3: mobile need at what we call cel sinessence or stem
[48:30] Speaker 3: cells and essence, and so they're like kind of old
[48:32] Speaker 3: blokes with a walking frame and they don't know what
[48:34] Speaker 3: they're meant to be doing. Cells. And if you can
[48:38] Speaker 3: tip the balance, so some of these gray horses become
[48:41] Speaker 3: vibrant and alive and get involved in the healing process,
[48:44] Speaker 3: then you tip the balance and your pain goes away.
[48:47] Speaker 3: So I think that PRP has a number of different effects.
[48:49] Speaker 3: I think as a triggering agent, the needless self is
[48:52] Speaker 3: a bit traumatic, so that the trauma response does stimulate
[48:56] Speaker 3: local cells to get involved. And as you say, if
[49:00] Speaker 3: what things you can do to I have not the blood vessels.
[49:02] Speaker 3: So sometimes you use like nitrogen patches on the achilles
[49:05] Speaker 3: sent and it's used in cardiacs in China to open
[49:10] Speaker 3: up the arteries of your heart. And what you do
[49:13] Speaker 3: is you cut it into a quarter and put that
[49:15] Speaker 3: on the tendon and that opens up the blood vessels,
[49:17] Speaker 3: we think, and that also seems to be resonutly effective
[49:20] Speaker 3: to help you know that group of what we will
[49:22] Speaker 3: call tendernopathy or and sometimes that images is a partial tear.
[49:27] Speaker 1: So if you just wouldn't mind helping Mia here on
[49:32] Speaker 1: this one, I'm often people like me, as we get older,
[49:38] Speaker 1: we tend to have a store of and inflammatory is
[49:41] Speaker 1: in there in our cupboard, and all the different types
[49:45] Speaker 1: of any inflammations. And I'm not talking about the ones
[49:47] Speaker 1: you buy at the chemist. I'm talking about the ones
[49:49] Speaker 1: you get a prescription for. What is the what's the
[49:55] Speaker 1: theory behind how and any inflammatory actually works? So you know,
[50:02] Speaker 1: let's say I've got inflammation somewhere and I take that inflammatory,
[50:06] Speaker 1: the inflammation goes away, But what's that process about?
[50:10] Speaker 2: It doesn't work.
[50:12] Speaker 3: So non steroidal if you look at non sterroidals or painkillers,
[50:15] Speaker 3: they're essentially like a masking agent and they do help
[50:18] Speaker 3: with a bit of inflammation, but they've also got a
[50:20] Speaker 3: very strong painkilling action, So you've still got the problem,
[50:24] Speaker 3: but some respects the problem might be helped because inflammation
[50:28] Speaker 3: is least. So part of the pain is or the
[50:30] Speaker 3: problem is inflammation, but the inflammation is generally a result
[50:34] Speaker 3: of something else. So you know your joints a bit
[50:37] Speaker 3: ar threadiche or you've got a chondrial injury at least,
[50:39] Speaker 3: and then the n inflammatory or decrease the inflammatory response.
[50:43] Speaker 3: The inflammatory response was like seaweed, the lining of the
[50:46] Speaker 3: joints sort of growing into the joint and then it
[50:49] Speaker 3: gets compressed and it bleeds and at least to this
[50:51] Speaker 3: sort of vicious cycle of problems. So it does help
[50:55] Speaker 3: in some respects to break that, but the main thing
[50:58] Speaker 3: it does is a master your symptom.
[51:00] Speaker 1: So if you're someone who's living on any inflammatories, by
[51:03] Speaker 1: the way, with I know lots of people will do this.
[51:06] Speaker 2: Today, guys is Mark Boris here.
[51:08] Speaker 1: If you're a regular listener, you know I'm always looking
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[51:22] Speaker 1: which quickly brought me to realize that the biggest factor
[51:26] Speaker 1: impacting my performance was actually my sleep or lack thereof.
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[51:32] Speaker 1: to any mattress. It automatically cools, heats, or elevates your
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[51:56] Speaker 1: And yes, it has two sides for you and your partner.
[52:00] Speaker 1: Head over to a sleep dot com forward slash project
[52:03] Speaker 1: one hundred and use the code project one hundred, that's
[52:07] Speaker 1: project one zero zero to get three hundred and fifty
[52:12] Speaker 1: dollars off your pod for Ultra and take your sleep game.
[52:16] Speaker 2: To the next level.
[52:18] Speaker 1: What's the risk that they're running Apart from gut risk,
[52:21] Speaker 1: et cetera, but let's leave that aside. What's the risk
[52:24] Speaker 1: that they're running and when at what stage should they
[52:27] Speaker 1: go and consult with their physician and or go and
[52:30] Speaker 1: see an next specialist like yourself about the injury.
[52:34] Speaker 3: So there's it's reasonable to take them for a couple
[52:37] Speaker 3: of days depending what it is. But an any inflammatory
[52:42] Speaker 3: has localized masking things. So you can well talk about
[52:46] Speaker 3: neuropathy joints, their joints that essentially you can't feel and
[52:49] Speaker 3: they break themselves down. And if you're a person that's
[52:52] Speaker 3: taking a lot of any inflammatories, you're essentially giving yourself
[52:55] Speaker 3: like this neuropathic joint type problem. And as you say that,
[52:59] Speaker 3: I know professional athletes will often take any inflammatories before
[53:03] Speaker 3: and after the game to allow them to play, particularly
[53:05] Speaker 3: you know your footballers that are taking a lot of impact.
[53:08] Speaker 3: So that's not good because you're you've got a problem
[53:11] Speaker 3: in the joint that you need to take notice of
[53:13] Speaker 3: and potentially get addressed. And then as you're saying that
[53:15] Speaker 3: you have there's systemic effects and the saddest systemic effects
[53:20] Speaker 3: if you see these medicines and things like when you
[53:22] Speaker 3: get kidney failure or liver failure, and because they're often
[53:26] Speaker 3: very difficult to reverse once you get them, and you
[53:28] Speaker 3: do see that, you know, you get patients come in
[53:30] Speaker 3: that have had they've got kidney problems or liver problems
[53:34] Speaker 3: as a result of long term use of non stoid
[53:37] Speaker 3: land inflammatories.
[53:39] Speaker 1: So if and I just want to go back to
[53:42] Speaker 1: the my injury, it's all about me.
[53:45] Speaker 2: Of course.
[53:47] Speaker 1: One of the things that you advise me to do well,
[53:51] Speaker 1: was it so much advice more suggestion you said to
[53:54] Speaker 1: try and when we'll go down this church. Now there's
[53:56] Speaker 1: a hype back Barrack oxygen therapy, which is h bid
[54:00] Speaker 1: or hyperbaric chamber, and you suggested that I might try it.
[54:07] Speaker 1: I've had a couple of goes at it, and I
[54:10] Speaker 1: don't know what like last one I had to go
[54:12] Speaker 1: it was about four days ago or something four five
[54:15] Speaker 1: days ago, and when I first saw you, I'm a
[54:20] Speaker 1: bit confused. I don't know exactly with this a proper test.
[54:24] Speaker 1: But when I first saw you, I couldn't sleep at
[54:26] Speaker 1: night because the pain, well it wasn't it was more
[54:30] Speaker 1: an ache. It would wake me up after every ten
[54:33] Speaker 1: or fifteen minutes on one side, which is on my glute.
[54:39] Speaker 2: But I can.
[54:41] Speaker 1: Happily say that as of last weekend, so that's one
[54:46] Speaker 1: day after I had my last treatment in the chamber,
[54:50] Speaker 1: that I've got no pain. Now. I don't know if
[54:53] Speaker 1: that's me herely my own system healing itself or whether
[54:56] Speaker 1: or the have a bag chamber has helped me A
[54:59] Speaker 1: bark and oxygen therapy has helped me heal myself.
[55:03] Speaker 2: Has sort of turbo charged that process.
[55:08] Speaker 1: But I definitely feel better, particularly after last Friday's treatment.
[55:16] Speaker 1: Maybe you can explain to your listeners what hbot's all about,
[55:20] Speaker 1: and well, what sort of some of the stuff that's
[55:22] Speaker 1: behind it, and you know, what do you and why
[55:24] Speaker 1: do you recommend it pre post operation, pre operation and
[55:29] Speaker 1: just generally for general health.
[55:31] Speaker 3: So hyperbariing ocean therapy. It's a chamber, so it's been
[55:36] Speaker 3: around for a very long time.
[55:37] Speaker 2: So sixteen sixty two was sixteen sixty two.
[55:40] Speaker 3: Sixteen sixty two there was the first pressureized chamber by
[55:43] Speaker 3: lo called Hanshaw. Then in seventeen seventy eight a guy
[55:47] Speaker 3: called Priestly came up with the idea of breathing one
[55:49] Speaker 3: hundred percent Ostian in order to help recovery from various conditions.
[55:54] Speaker 2: But was originally there for people had the bends.
[55:57] Speaker 3: It was later used in the bends, but the first, yeah,
[55:59] Speaker 3: the first experiments were done just from the pressurization for
[56:04] Speaker 3: other conditions, you know, for reconditions and so forth. Was
[56:07] Speaker 3: that you know in droves back then. Then it's been
[56:10] Speaker 3: substantly used in the bends in I think it started
[56:12] Speaker 3: in Massachusetts the first time it was used there in
[56:15] Speaker 3: divers around the bridges. It's you go into a chamber
[56:20] Speaker 3: and we the data's around about two atmospheres, So we
[56:22] Speaker 3: got to two atmosphere.
[56:23] Speaker 2: What does that mean? Two atmospheres?
[56:25] Speaker 3: So two atmospheres is double the atmospheric pressure that we've
[56:28] Speaker 3: got right now. So it's equivalent to if you were
[56:30] Speaker 3: diving and you get down to ten meters, means if
[56:34] Speaker 3: you feel that pressure on you when you're in the water,
[56:37] Speaker 3: So similar to that. And then the changes have revolved
[56:41] Speaker 3: around pressures in the tank with air. So we go
[56:45] Speaker 3: to we monitor the oscan concentration. We keep it at
[56:48] Speaker 3: atmosphere at the same as atmospheric good twenty one. But
[56:52] Speaker 3: you breathe one hundred percent oxygen. Now, according to the
[56:57] Speaker 3: physics and laws of gas that we we can follow
[57:00] Speaker 3: and apply to the individual, we know that that then
[57:04] Speaker 3: leads to the plasma in your body becoming an oxygen
[57:08] Speaker 3: sort of super carrier of otion to your tissues. So
[57:12] Speaker 3: that means that essentially your ocy tension, and your tissues
[57:16] Speaker 3: up to twelve percent twelve hundred percent to two thousand
[57:18] Speaker 3: percent of what they would normally be, so you're hip
[57:21] Speaker 3: for example, a muscle issue that needs a lot of oxygen.
[57:26] Speaker 3: It's a very highly metabolic area. It needs a little
[57:29] Speaker 3: bit of a pushel on. I was hoping when you
[57:31] Speaker 3: came in. I thought, now you're the sort of ideal
[57:34] Speaker 3: guy for this kind of treatment. I'd just like to
[57:36] Speaker 3: see how you go. I won't sort of put in
[57:38] Speaker 3: your mind it's going to heal it or not. We'll
[57:40] Speaker 3: just see what you come up with and what have
[57:44] Speaker 3: Your body needs oxygen for production of energy. So if
[57:49] Speaker 3: you look at the energy cycle, which just ATP goes
[57:51] Speaker 3: to ADP uses one oxygen molecule and your mitochondria, then
[57:56] Speaker 3: your mitochondria and then the powerhouse of your body. So
[58:00] Speaker 3: it's like any even economic system, you need energy. If
[58:03] Speaker 3: you don't have abundant energy, you know you're in trouble.
[58:07] Speaker 3: And so the energy then allows recruitment of the stem cells.
[58:11] Speaker 3: Some of these gray horses change and become more active,
[58:14] Speaker 3: and then you also get energy genesis, so blood vessels
[58:17] Speaker 3: can grow in more actively, cells can move more of
[58:20] Speaker 3: the god more energy. But the thing is you're getting
[58:22] Speaker 3: older over these sort of like your energy is a
[58:24] Speaker 3: combination of the trauma, but also if you had it
[58:27] Speaker 3: on this when you're twenty, you probably have had the injury.
[58:29] Speaker 3: So it's not just the trauma, it's also the age
[58:33] Speaker 3: that you're at. And so I thought hyperbariosian therapy is
[58:35] Speaker 3: probably going to help you with that, certainly won't hurt.
[58:39] Speaker 3: And then when you look at the PIP, Yeah, PRP
[58:41] Speaker 3: I think is a very useful thing in this environment.
[58:44] Speaker 3: One of the problems around your hip is it's quite
[58:46] Speaker 3: a deep structure. It's very hard to actually nail the
[58:49] Speaker 3: area and get it into that. And also an injection
[58:52] Speaker 3: of a material into your body that pressure is quite painful.
[58:55] Speaker 3: And I remember you're saying it was a very painful
[58:57] Speaker 3: thing for you to go through.
[58:59] Speaker 1: The hyperbaric and I think you did explain to me
[59:03] Speaker 1: that the hyperbaric chamber with the oxygen mask that I
[59:08] Speaker 1: used at your surgery is medical grade. What's the difference
[59:14] Speaker 1: between medical grade and other hypervary chambers.
[59:17] Speaker 3: So there's shem hyperbarracks, which is a low pressure environment,
[59:21] Speaker 3: so lower pressure, so might go to one point three
[59:24] Speaker 3: one point five atmospheres and you've got like these various
[59:27] Speaker 3: soft tanks, so and they seem to have an effect,
[59:31] Speaker 3: but you just need longer in them. So the other
[59:34] Speaker 3: day we're watching the Kardashians and one of them got
[59:36] Speaker 3: out of a tank you've been in for a few hours.
[59:39] Speaker 3: And if you see Lebron James is like quite a
[59:41] Speaker 3: few of the Hollywood starlets, you know, they're using real
[59:44] Speaker 3: science in order to look the way they do. It's
[59:47] Speaker 3: not that the face grin that they're promoting grade, it's
[59:50] Speaker 3: it's actual true science. So they're looking as good as
[59:53] Speaker 3: they do. And it does have it does make you
[59:56] Speaker 3: feel better, as you say, and it does have it
[59:59] Speaker 3: can have unexpected effects on your body, like you can
[1:00:03] Speaker 3: notice other things getting better as well. I think when
[1:00:07] Speaker 3: I had I had a diver that came in and
[1:00:09] Speaker 3: he he said, I've used this is just like when
[1:00:13] Speaker 3: I dive, and I've noticed when I go on a
[1:00:14] Speaker 3: diving tour that after about a week, well my arthritic
[1:00:18] Speaker 3: pain goes right. And we sort of, yeah, he noticed that,
[1:00:22] Speaker 3: and I think, well that that actually seems to make sense.
[1:00:24] Speaker 2: They're breathing oxygen too, aren't they.
[1:00:26] Speaker 3: They're bringing through the tank exactly, and they tend to
[1:00:29] Speaker 3: turn up their oxygen and they're nitrous down a little bit.
[1:00:32] Speaker 3: They do different mixes according to what they're you know,
[1:00:35] Speaker 3: how deep they're going and how how they want to recover.
[1:00:38] Speaker 2: Is there any danger associated with it?
[1:00:40] Speaker 1: Like the height the hybrid barrier? Oxygen therapy is a
[1:00:45] Speaker 1: miss Who shouldn't do it? I mean some of the
[1:00:48] Speaker 1: heart problems or someone who's breaking I guess.
[1:00:50] Speaker 3: Yeah, so we when you came in, we have a
[1:00:53] Speaker 3: check sheet. So yes, we we're pretty detailed and who
[1:00:56] Speaker 3: we allow in and who we don't. We treat. Most
[1:00:59] Speaker 3: of the things were treating a lifestyle related or muscle
[1:01:02] Speaker 3: recovery type situations, but there is Yeah, if you had
[1:01:06] Speaker 3: middle ear problems, you can't go.
[1:01:08] Speaker 2: On the tank, or you've got the flu for example.
[1:01:10] Speaker 3: Yeah, if you got the fluid, that is a moderating
[1:01:13] Speaker 3: country indication and for our our purposes, it's like you
[1:01:16] Speaker 3: don't need to come in now, come back when you're
[1:01:19] Speaker 3: feeling better. So that that's one. The absolute contry indication
[1:01:22] Speaker 3: is if you've got what's called the new methorites, you
[1:01:24] Speaker 3: got to punch it lung. That's one hundred percent you
[1:01:27] Speaker 3: can't go in, not that we would see that in
[1:01:29] Speaker 3: an our patient environment, but other people that are claustrophobic.
[1:01:33] Speaker 3: And I noticed this when I was in the US
[1:01:35] Speaker 3: and I was working at mc Hyperbarrett that I didn't
[1:01:38] Speaker 3: notice anybody that was said they're claustrophobic, but just i'd
[1:01:42] Speaker 3: say ninety percent of a strains when they come in,
[1:01:44] Speaker 3: they go, oh, I don't know, I'm a bit claustrophobic.
[1:01:46] Speaker 3: Will it'll be able to So we got one with
[1:01:48] Speaker 3: a big window so that we could see people and
[1:01:51] Speaker 3: hopefully you alleviate that. But if you're very claustrophobic, you
[1:01:54] Speaker 3: can't go in as well.
[1:01:55] Speaker 1: Yeah, it's I should explain to everybody, and we can put
[1:01:57] Speaker 1: up a bit of vision for this. The guys will
[1:01:59] Speaker 1: do that, but me getting in and sitting in there.
[1:02:02] Speaker 1: But it's fairly noisy in that you can hear the
[1:02:08] Speaker 1: oxygen in there and you're in your own chamber, so
[1:02:11] Speaker 1: everything sort of vibrating off the walls inside.
[1:02:13] Speaker 2: Even though you've got padding.
[1:02:15] Speaker 1: There is like a perspects piece of it where I
[1:02:18] Speaker 1: could actually see the technician and anyone else for that
[1:02:22] Speaker 1: matter was standing there. So they took away any claustrophobic
[1:02:26] Speaker 1: sort of environment. For me, you have the oxygen mask on,
[1:02:33] Speaker 1: sort of really hit your hart with oxygen. The process
[1:02:36] Speaker 1: of getting adjusted to two atmospheres doesn't happen like that.
[1:02:40] Speaker 1: It happens over in phases. So I went through a
[1:02:44] Speaker 1: number of phases, and the technicians they're checking with me
[1:02:47] Speaker 1: and sort of indicating to me, you know, like you
[1:02:49] Speaker 1: should just do. It's a bit like an aeroplane, and
[1:02:52] Speaker 1: you know, if the plane sort of goes to attitude
[1:02:55] Speaker 1: really quickly, you sort of get that popping feeling in
[1:02:57] Speaker 1: your nose and you're in and you can just adjust
[1:02:59] Speaker 1: the three. But none of that was sort of from
[1:03:02] Speaker 1: my point of view, at least, none of that was
[1:03:04] Speaker 1: particularly prohibitive for me staying in there. Then I stayed
[1:03:07] Speaker 1: in there for an hour, around aboutn hour, I think,
[1:03:10] Speaker 1: before you sort of let me out over a period
[1:03:14] Speaker 1: of time, so you bring me back down to zero
[1:03:17] Speaker 1: atmosphere or whatever it is from two to something else,
[1:03:20] Speaker 1: and that's about five minutes of process.
[1:03:23] Speaker 2: But I stayed there for an hour. I could have
[1:03:24] Speaker 2: easily gone to sleep.
[1:03:26] Speaker 1: I didn't go to sleep because I thought because I
[1:03:29] Speaker 1: was just a little bit nervous.
[1:03:31] Speaker 2: My first two times.
[1:03:32] Speaker 1: I thought, if I go to sleep and something happens,
[1:03:37] Speaker 1: I won't know what happened or something.
[1:03:38] Speaker 2: I don't know. It was just a bit weird, But
[1:03:40] Speaker 2: I have to be honest. It like I felt.
[1:03:41] Speaker 1: Completely relaxed in there, like very relaxed. I could be
[1:03:44] Speaker 1: easily gone to sleep, and I actually slept better that night.
[1:03:48] Speaker 1: I don't know if it helps you with sleep that
[1:03:50] Speaker 1: is there any research that say it does help me sleep?
[1:03:52] Speaker 2: I actually felt sleepy.
[1:03:53] Speaker 3: Yeah, so a lot of people report that they sleep
[1:03:56] Speaker 3: a lot better. Every now and then you get someone
[1:03:58] Speaker 3: that says they feel hyper but most that's probably one
[1:04:02] Speaker 3: of the best things. That's one of the things I
[1:04:03] Speaker 3: like about it mostly too. And one of the things
[1:04:06] Speaker 3: about that is if you can sleep well and you're
[1:04:08] Speaker 3: saying about how you wake up all the time about
[1:04:11] Speaker 3: two o'clock in the morning, you get a growth woman
[1:04:13] Speaker 3: and surge as part of your Cicadian rhythm, and growth
[1:04:15] Speaker 3: on is very important like that natural growth woman to heal,
[1:04:18] Speaker 3: so you get a vicious cycle with your hip. You
[1:04:20] Speaker 3: know you can't sleep, you don't get the growth woman,
[1:04:22] Speaker 3: and then it sort of perpetuates. But I fall asleep
[1:04:25] Speaker 3: in the chamber, I love it. I go in and
[1:04:27] Speaker 3: I breathe it in. The oscan is very it's kind
[1:04:30] Speaker 3: of very soothing. Some people find it almost, you know,
[1:04:33] Speaker 3: an addictive thing, you know that. I think when you're
[1:04:36] Speaker 3: as you're getting older, like I've noticed, like young people
[1:04:39] Speaker 3: when they've got injury or some other thing is very
[1:04:43] Speaker 3: good for them and they don't necessarily notice some of
[1:04:45] Speaker 3: those other effects. But I notice as you get older
[1:04:47] Speaker 3: that your areas, maybe your brain that don't get enough
[1:04:51] Speaker 3: oxygen or parts of your body they don't get the
[1:04:53] Speaker 3: ocean and you do the hyperbaric and maybe they're getting
[1:04:56] Speaker 3: the oscan they need in order to finally get rid
[1:04:59] Speaker 3: of some waste or whatever it is. Because your brain
[1:05:03] Speaker 3: is flushing itself out of its waste at night. So
[1:05:05] Speaker 3: it's very important to get that sleep. And you know,
[1:05:08] Speaker 3: sleep deprivation is the oldest form of torture, right.
[1:05:12] Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, like that's sort of one ton of
[1:05:15] Speaker 1: my bay stuff flee. It's because it may well be
[1:05:20] Speaker 1: the hyperbaric pressure itself didn't do anything to me, but
[1:05:24] Speaker 1: maybe the fact that I actually slept well as a
[1:05:26] Speaker 1: result of the oxygen within the hyper barrier chamber that
[1:05:29] Speaker 1: I healed myself through better sleep because prior to.
[1:05:33] Speaker 2: Me going in there, I just wasn't.
[1:05:34] Speaker 1: I mean I was, I was sleeping, but I'd be
[1:05:36] Speaker 1: waking up every twenty thirty minutes. And what I'd find
[1:05:40] Speaker 1: myself having to do is lay my back because that
[1:05:43] Speaker 1: was the only way that I didn't get any pressure
[1:05:45] Speaker 1: on my on my glute. And as a result of that,
[1:05:47] Speaker 1: you know, you're not sleeping properly. Your your chin drops,
[1:05:50] Speaker 1: you don't breathe properly, get a dry mouth, blah blah blah.
[1:05:53] Speaker 2: There's a whole.
[1:05:53] Speaker 1: Series of things. It must be a dreadful thing to
[1:05:55] Speaker 1: look at. It's really scary for anyone to semulate that.
[1:05:59] Speaker 1: But but but this allowed me to sleep on my side,
[1:06:03] Speaker 1: and I actually had a bit of sleep, and I
[1:06:05] Speaker 1: was only getting waken up once a night for the
[1:06:07] Speaker 1: usual reason. But you know, but other than that, I've
[1:06:11] Speaker 1: slept better. I don't have any ache or any pain
[1:06:16] Speaker 1: from it at the moment. I think I demonstrated the
[1:06:19] Speaker 1: other day, I can stay, I stand up on one
[1:06:21] Speaker 1: leg and take the weight to everything on one leg.
[1:06:25] Speaker 1: And whether it's a sort of a coincidence or well,
[1:06:34] Speaker 1: could well be a confluence of events, sleeping better more
[1:06:39] Speaker 1: oxygen something from the hyperbaric pressure itself, time and my
[1:06:46] Speaker 1: body doing his job. So the hyperbaric I mean, I
[1:06:50] Speaker 1: definitely would recommend hyperbaric oxygen therapy to somebody else. In fact,
[1:06:56] Speaker 1: I recommend it some of our players today. So I
[1:07:00] Speaker 1: do want to talk about that for a moment. So
[1:07:02] Speaker 1: in relation to perhaps head trauma, is there anything any
[1:07:07] Speaker 1: studies being done or any evidence or any even observational
[1:07:10] Speaker 1: evidence that you have come across in relation to.
[1:07:15] Speaker 2: TBI.
[1:07:15] Speaker 1: You know.
[1:07:18] Speaker 2: That hyperbaric and oxygen can assist with.
[1:07:21] Speaker 3: Yeah, so there is quite a lot of studies, both
[1:07:24] Speaker 3: in the acute setting and the chronic setting.
[1:07:26] Speaker 2: But what's it been between a cute and chronic So cutes.
[1:07:28] Speaker 3: When you've just had the injury and you've got all
[1:07:31] Speaker 3: that swelling and edemer and then the long term effects
[1:07:34] Speaker 3: are more like the you know, the loss of memory
[1:07:37] Speaker 3: and the aspects of that. So hyberbreak has been used
[1:07:41] Speaker 3: in about those settings and seems to you know, in
[1:07:43] Speaker 3: its early stage, is still early data seems to be
[1:07:46] Speaker 3: very useful. Not that I would think that, you know,
[1:07:49] Speaker 3: it's going to be a substitute of avoiding the head
[1:07:52] Speaker 3: trauma in the first place, but it does decrease the
[1:07:54] Speaker 3: adem And I think with your initial concussions and things
[1:07:58] Speaker 3: that you get in regy league that you're seeing people
[1:08:01] Speaker 3: that have got like a lot of swelling and they've
[1:08:03] Speaker 3: got the headache and that they need to do all
[1:08:06] Speaker 3: the protocols that been recommended, you know, avoid playing, but
[1:08:09] Speaker 3: it could help with the symptoms that maybe help with
[1:08:11] Speaker 3: the recovery of that.
[1:08:13] Speaker 1: So we've actually sent one or two players up there.
[1:08:15] Speaker 1: In fact, we had a couple on the weekends west touring.
[1:08:18] Speaker 1: The coach this morning he's actually going to talk to
[1:08:20] Speaker 1: our head to rehab to perhaps contact you guys to
[1:08:23] Speaker 1: get the other two guys up there this week. When
[1:08:26] Speaker 1: you do this for HBOT protocols, how often do you
[1:08:30] Speaker 1: have to do it? Like I've been doing it once
[1:08:32] Speaker 1: a week. But as I understanding that, it's a different
[1:08:35] Speaker 1: to be most effective. What's your optimization?
[1:08:37] Speaker 2: Is it daily? Every day for a month? What is it?
[1:08:40] Speaker 3: Yeah, Well, it depends on what you're going to treat.
[1:08:43] Speaker 3: So some things that are like slow meta I look
[1:08:47] Speaker 3: at things that slow metabolic organism organists you've got they
[1:08:51] Speaker 3: need a lot more treatments, and say, and something's got
[1:08:54] Speaker 3: a very high melted boy rate. I think. So for example, yourself,
[1:08:58] Speaker 3: I thought, do I really hope masks going to notice
[1:09:00] Speaker 3: an immediate improvement. You see, you know you're in when
[1:09:03] Speaker 3: you're in you're in tansepain. You see that you know,
[1:09:05] Speaker 3: you were tired, and you had all these things that
[1:09:08] Speaker 3: were sort of you know, and you're worried about it.
[1:09:10] Speaker 3: And so I thought, you know, hopefully this will make
[1:09:12] Speaker 3: a big difference for you, and then you so you
[1:09:14] Speaker 3: go from that where you know, maybe one or two
[1:09:17] Speaker 3: you might see a difference hopefully, and then you see
[1:09:19] Speaker 3: other things that you need quite a lot of treatments for.
[1:09:22] Speaker 3: So there's very well defined scientific protocols. We interface with
[1:09:26] Speaker 3: MD Hyperbaric on their their protocols.
[1:09:29] Speaker 2: They get MD hyperbar MPTY Hyperbaric.
[1:09:31] Speaker 3: Somebody's set up. He's about five clinics I think in
[1:09:34] Speaker 3: the United States now and they've got a couple of
[1:09:37] Speaker 3: chambers in there, one in New York. So they've we've
[1:09:41] Speaker 3: adapted a lot of our protocols from them. And then
[1:09:44] Speaker 3: you know the other protocols we've got just from the
[1:09:47] Speaker 3: scientific literature. So for example, there are protocols for infection.
[1:09:52] Speaker 3: So if you have an infection, then you might go
[1:09:54] Speaker 3: in for an hour and.
[1:09:55] Speaker 2: A half looking blood infection for example.
[1:09:58] Speaker 3: That might be a bone infect for example, So I
[1:10:01] Speaker 3: seem lighters, there's protocols for that, depending on what it is,
[1:10:04] Speaker 3: and that's an hour and a half every day for
[1:10:06] Speaker 3: a series of treatment some treatments. So there's longevity programs
[1:10:12] Speaker 3: where you do forty treatments and then you do maintenance
[1:10:16] Speaker 3: treatment after that.
[1:10:17] Speaker 2: Forty treatments forty consecutive days.
[1:10:21] Speaker 3: Yep.
[1:10:21] Speaker 2: I mean do you take the weekend.
[1:10:22] Speaker 3: Off or do you take the weekend off?
[1:10:24] Speaker 2: Yeah, so you do know eight weeks of eight weeks.
[1:10:29] Speaker 3: Yeah, We've had a couple of people that have come
[1:10:31] Speaker 3: in and they've been they've actually been going to other
[1:10:34] Speaker 3: units that coming to us and say, Oliver, I want
[1:10:36] Speaker 3: to pick it up. I'm on holidays in Australia and
[1:10:38] Speaker 3: I want to keep going. So there's it depends what
[1:10:42] Speaker 3: you're trying to achieve is to what you would do.
[1:10:45] Speaker 3: So a surgical protocol, which is based on a study
[1:10:49] Speaker 3: that was done the United States with plastic surgical patients,
[1:10:52] Speaker 3: was five treatments, you know, two before and then three afterwards.
[1:10:56] Speaker 3: Seemed to be what they suggested was good. So we
[1:10:58] Speaker 3: follow those and you do be spoken a little bit
[1:11:02] Speaker 3: to what to the person. So you know, if people
[1:11:06] Speaker 3: come in and they say, look, I feel fantastic after
[1:11:08] Speaker 3: a few, you might go, well, maybe you could delay
[1:11:11] Speaker 3: the next ones and do them later. We do try
[1:11:14] Speaker 3: to keep people that did, but compliance is a bit
[1:11:16] Speaker 3: of an issue to you know, coming in every day
[1:11:19] Speaker 3: for an hour not easy, not easy. So compressing those
[1:11:23] Speaker 3: treatments so then we'll probably be our Our next thing
[1:11:26] Speaker 3: to look at is because like everybody's time.
[1:11:28] Speaker 1: For or we alleged we are. You know, they get
[1:11:33] Speaker 1: it's all about prioritizing. But that's putting heavier weight on
[1:11:38] Speaker 1: certain things that we traditionally don't put enough weight on.
[1:11:43] Speaker 1: But what I found interesting there is that there are
[1:11:45] Speaker 1: different protocols in terms of the use of the machine
[1:11:51] Speaker 1: relative to whatever it is you're trying to achieve. So
[1:11:54] Speaker 1: if it's a longevity issue in other words, a freshen up,
[1:11:58] Speaker 1: a return, yes, we're talking about potentially the protocols Hays
[1:12:01] Speaker 1: forty forty treatments. For example, if it's a bone infection,
[1:12:05] Speaker 1: it could be you know, some other some other protocol.
[1:12:08] Speaker 2: That's if it's a pre surgery pre surgery.
[1:12:13] Speaker 1: I think you mentioned to two prior surgeon three post surgeries. Yes,
[1:12:17] Speaker 1: those sites and these protocols are being developed in the
[1:12:21] Speaker 1: US under you know, I guess through their research and
[1:12:26] Speaker 1: you're you're sort.
[1:12:27] Speaker 2: Of borrowing their protocols here in Australia.
[1:12:29] Speaker 3: That's right. So there we look at published data like
[1:12:33] Speaker 3: peer reviewed data. In ash fact, the Israelis are probably
[1:12:37] Speaker 3: one of the most advents of the hyperbarrier. There's they've
[1:12:41] Speaker 3: published a lot of data and they've even published data
[1:12:43] Speaker 3: where you you do all these treatments we talk about,
[1:12:45] Speaker 3: you know, longevity. One of the things there's fourteen scientific
[1:12:49] Speaker 3: things that happen to us sol when as you get older.
[1:12:52] Speaker 3: One of them is the teleman which is a little
[1:12:54] Speaker 3: bit of genetic information on the DNA double helix which
[1:12:57] Speaker 3: gets shorter as you get older. And they've done studies,
[1:13:00] Speaker 3: they've done their longevities with their longevity sort of studies
[1:13:03] Speaker 3: come from and they've looked at they've actually seen some
[1:13:07] Speaker 3: cells that the tell them at length is lengthened with
[1:13:09] Speaker 3: their treatment, which is amazing that it has had that effect.
[1:13:13] Speaker 3: So these things are in evolution, they're developing. So we
[1:13:17] Speaker 3: kind of borrow scientific data from everywhere in the world.
[1:13:20] Speaker 3: As it comes available, and that's interesting.
[1:13:22] Speaker 1: So that tell them is in some of the work
[1:13:26] Speaker 1: they're doing, they've seen instead of the telling them is
[1:13:29] Speaker 1: shortening as we get older, they've actually managed to length
[1:13:32] Speaker 1: them or at least arrest the shortening as a result
[1:13:35] Speaker 1: of using a hyperbarrier chamber. That's an example. I guess
[1:13:39] Speaker 1: that's an example where longevity. That's a longevity outcome because
[1:13:46] Speaker 1: you would expect as we get older, we get shortened.
[1:13:49] Speaker 1: Tell them is, but if we can re lengthen them,
[1:13:52] Speaker 1: then it would sort of follow that that individual may
[1:13:58] Speaker 1: have the potent ure to increase the length of their
[1:14:01] Speaker 1: life as a result of these telling me is you know,
[1:14:05] Speaker 1: not reducing that to just about zero.
[1:14:08] Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's that's like the in medical school, we
[1:14:11] Speaker 3: do comparative anatomy, and I talked to our students about
[1:14:15] Speaker 3: comparative longevity. So we look at different species that live
[1:14:18] Speaker 3: a very long time. So you know, an American redwood
[1:14:22] Speaker 3: which lives hundreds of years. You look at it cells
[1:14:25] Speaker 3: as tell them at length is maintained, So we know
[1:14:28] Speaker 3: that that seems to be important. It's it's probably one
[1:14:31] Speaker 3: of the art, it's probably not the only thing. It's
[1:14:32] Speaker 3: a marker yeah, it might be just a marker, but
[1:14:36] Speaker 3: certainly you know whereas you you know, we talk about
[1:14:38] Speaker 3: this peril of replication. Every time your cells divide, the
[1:14:41] Speaker 3: telomere is shortened eche time. So maybe it's used in
[1:14:44] Speaker 3: that that change, and if you don't have it, you're
[1:14:48] Speaker 3: more likely to get an encryption era or and then
[1:14:50] Speaker 3: then that leads to a bad series of steps for
[1:14:53] Speaker 3: you know, your body. But whether it's going to be
[1:14:56] Speaker 3: you know, it's just a marker or it's really important,
[1:15:00] Speaker 3: we're still early on in that in the in studies.
[1:15:03] Speaker 1: So if I could just go back to surgery for
[1:15:08] Speaker 1: a moment, I mean, I did save you. Like, if
[1:15:12] Speaker 1: we've got an injury, we've got to go and talk
[1:15:15] Speaker 1: to a surgeon about what should we do, at least
[1:15:17] Speaker 1: talk to a doctor who might refer us to the
[1:15:19] Speaker 1: specialists who might then refer us to the surgeon. Because
[1:15:22] Speaker 1: there's that sort of different process because normally what happens,
[1:15:26] Speaker 1: I mean, as I understand it is that you might
[1:15:29] Speaker 1: go and see your GP. The GPS sends you to
[1:15:32] Speaker 1: an orthopedic specialist who might not be a surgeon. Sometimes
[1:15:37] Speaker 1: they're not the same thing, aren't they The earth it's
[1:15:39] Speaker 1: like seeing neurologist who might not do might not be
[1:15:42] Speaker 1: a surgeon, or a cardiologist who might not be a surgeon,
[1:15:46] Speaker 1: but they sometimes then if you've got some problem, they
[1:15:48] Speaker 1: send you off to the surgeon. It's a there's a
[1:15:51] Speaker 1: different part. Is that the same operating in orthopedics?
[1:15:55] Speaker 3: Not sure, there's so there are some orthopedic surgeons that
[1:15:58] Speaker 3: retire and they keep consulting, which is fair fantastic because
[1:16:00] Speaker 3: they're great to know. They've got enormous experience to get
[1:16:03] Speaker 3: second opinions from.
[1:16:04] Speaker 2: So diagnostic though more than there's not.
[1:16:07] Speaker 3: That many sat the PD. Just about every old ped
[1:16:10] Speaker 3: surgeon still operates, right, and that's so it's a little
[1:16:13] Speaker 3: bit different to neurologists and eurosurgeons. Okay, I guess in
[1:16:16] Speaker 3: their respect. We have ar people who specialize in joyants rheumatologists,
[1:16:21] Speaker 3: so they don't operate, they prescribe medicines and they take
[1:16:24] Speaker 3: over certain But there's certain joint disease which is not surgical.
[1:16:28] Speaker 3: It's medical, So rheumatoid arthritis, for example, it's largely a
[1:16:32] Speaker 3: medical treated disorder. There's also sports stocks, so you've seen
[1:16:37] Speaker 3: sports stocks and there they can be like above in
[1:16:41] Speaker 3: terms of musculus, glyal definitions above you GP and before
[1:16:46] Speaker 3: the surgeon. So and they generally, you know, they often
[1:16:49] Speaker 3: do like individual things o PRP injections, and you know
[1:16:53] Speaker 3: they coordinate your treatment with your physio.
[1:16:55] Speaker 2: Yeah. So in Australia, do we get much let's call
[1:16:59] Speaker 2: it over over seeing that do Is that a thing?
[1:17:03] Speaker 2: I mean.
[1:17:05] Speaker 1: I have heard of it in terms of a good
[1:17:10] Speaker 1: example is prostate biopsies. I mean that's a big deal.
[1:17:14] Speaker 1: Has been a big deal around the world. I mean
[1:17:16] Speaker 1: there's been articles written in the New York Times about
[1:17:18] Speaker 1: it where people gone for biopsies because the amuri that
[1:17:24] Speaker 1: they had on their prostate was equivocal as opposed to unequivocal.
[1:17:33] Speaker 1: So in other words, it wasn't less than two point five,
[1:17:37] Speaker 1: but it wasn't more than four point five, which four
[1:17:39] Speaker 1: point five mean it's unequivocal. In other words, you're more
[1:17:42] Speaker 1: than likely got cancer and you've got to get it.
[1:17:44] Speaker 1: We got got to go and find how bad it is.
[1:17:46] Speaker 1: Or if it's und two point five, it's still unequivocal,
[1:17:48] Speaker 1: which says there's no way you've got cancer. But so
[1:17:50] Speaker 1: we don't need to do a biopsy. But if it's
[1:17:51] Speaker 1: somewhere in between, it's equivocal somewhere between two point five
[1:17:54] Speaker 1: and four point five.
[1:17:56] Speaker 2: In terms of the measurement better.
[1:18:00] Speaker 1: We don't know, So the choice is up to you,
[1:18:04] Speaker 1: and of course everyone's going to go, well, shit, maybe
[1:18:07] Speaker 1: you don't know, I don't know, Maybe you better get
[1:18:09] Speaker 1: better do it. And there's been some talk about over servicing.
[1:18:12] Speaker 1: Just that that's an example in terms of prostate that
[1:18:14] Speaker 1: I've read about. But in terms of orthopedics, is there
[1:18:19] Speaker 1: much over servicing that you know of and that other
[1:18:22] Speaker 1: alternatives could have been used instead of going having surgery?
[1:18:26] Speaker 3: Look, I really don't think there's much over servicing in Australia.
[1:18:29] Speaker 3: Like I think that we have most of my friends
[1:18:32] Speaker 3: as surgeons, and even guys that I disagree with, I
[1:18:35] Speaker 3: know that one hundred percent from a higher level, they're
[1:18:38] Speaker 3: trying to do the right thing by their patients. Over servicing.
[1:18:41] Speaker 3: You know, if you get a bad result, it's a
[1:18:44] Speaker 3: really bad outcome for the for the person to begin with,
[1:18:47] Speaker 3: but it's also a very bad outcome for the professional.
[1:18:50] Speaker 3: So you want to be doing you want to be
[1:18:52] Speaker 3: doing your best to get very little chance you're going
[1:18:55] Speaker 3: to get a bad result, And that comes to getting
[1:18:57] Speaker 3: the right indications.
[1:19:00] Speaker 2: But at what point, what point do you say, let's
[1:19:03] Speaker 2: troll these things first, you know, as opposed to going
[1:19:06] Speaker 2: and doing surgery, Like.
[1:19:09] Speaker 1: How does that process work? You know, like com Mark,
[1:19:11] Speaker 1: let's do hyperbaric, let's do a PRP. Let's not go
[1:19:15] Speaker 1: straight in and fix it up. How does that process work?
[1:19:18] Speaker 3: So it comes down the first step is diagnosis and
[1:19:21] Speaker 3: then putting that diagnosis what the likely outcome is. So
[1:19:25] Speaker 3: we always like to go back to the root cause
[1:19:27] Speaker 3: analysis and then try to look at the natural history
[1:19:31] Speaker 3: of that disease. So, for example, you go to the
[1:19:34] Speaker 3: idea of the prostate and you say, well, there's a
[1:19:38] Speaker 3: chance that this could be a cancer, right, that's a
[1:19:40] Speaker 3: really bad outcome for you, So then you might be
[1:19:43] Speaker 3: more likely to intervene to make sure you don't have
[1:19:45] Speaker 3: that when it comes to or the piece you're talking
[1:19:48] Speaker 3: about lifestyle surgery. See Jimmy, don't have that pressure that
[1:19:51] Speaker 3: you got to you know when you look at the
[1:19:53] Speaker 3: indication of the absolute indication and you know a facelift
[1:19:57] Speaker 3: that you never actually ever have to have. So you're
[1:19:59] Speaker 3: doing fro lifestyle point of view. So the pie's always
[1:20:01] Speaker 3: in the middle of that. So it's now if you've got,
[1:20:04] Speaker 3: for example, and our three D joint, you might say, well,
[1:20:07] Speaker 3: you're in our three D joint. We can try all
[1:20:09] Speaker 3: of these things. You might say, well, I've already tried those,
[1:20:11] Speaker 3: I've tried the physio or tried this. And then you go, well,
[1:20:14] Speaker 3: do you really want to play rugby or do you
[1:20:16] Speaker 3: really want to do some high impact activity? Can you
[1:20:21] Speaker 3: give that away? And you might say no, I really
[1:20:22] Speaker 3: want to do that. So then that comes down to
[1:20:26] Speaker 3: collaborative concern with the patient, and then you sort of
[1:20:29] Speaker 3: arrive at a decision together. And as you say, that
[1:20:32] Speaker 3: can be frustrating because it's a bit like the pilot
[1:20:34] Speaker 3: coming out and saying, no, do you want to tell
[1:20:36] Speaker 3: me how to land the plane? You know, they to
[1:20:39] Speaker 3: a certain extent, we have to. You know, we're guiding
[1:20:41] Speaker 3: and we're trying to be conservative, but we're also trying
[1:20:44] Speaker 3: not to be overly conservative and leave you in pain
[1:20:47] Speaker 3: for a very long time with the knowledge that the
[1:20:51] Speaker 3: conservative measures just a I'm going to work for you.
[1:20:54] Speaker 1: Yeah, Because I mean a good example is what you
[1:20:56] Speaker 1: just said about arthris. I mean, I remember once I
[1:20:58] Speaker 1: went to saw a sports doctor about you know, I've
[1:21:02] Speaker 1: broken my thumbs a number on a number of occasions
[1:21:04] Speaker 1: I got and it's pretty common to get narthrice or anyway.
[1:21:08] Speaker 1: And he said to me, the two alternatives are, well, first,
[1:21:14] Speaker 1: I'm going to I'm going to try he puts some
[1:21:19] Speaker 1: sort of anti inflammatory into like what do you call
[1:21:22] Speaker 1: that stuff, sir, and my god like that that did
[1:21:27] Speaker 1: hurt straight into the joint right, which is what I
[1:21:30] Speaker 1: already saw. And he said, look, if that doesn't work,
[1:21:32] Speaker 1: what we can do is we can go to see
[1:21:34] Speaker 1: a hand surge and get it fused, get the thumb fused.
[1:21:38] Speaker 1: So I presume that means I'm never going to be
[1:21:40] Speaker 1: able to use my thumb again.
[1:21:42] Speaker 3: No, you'd be able to use your thumb, but do
[1:21:43] Speaker 3: you bet you would lose some movement.
[1:21:46] Speaker 2: Yeah, probably my grip will be affected or something like that.
[1:21:49] Speaker 3: Yeah, it could be well, it could be like eating
[1:21:51] Speaker 3: lots of pain. You know, you get a weak grip,
[1:21:53] Speaker 3: So if that pain went away, then your grip could
[1:21:55] Speaker 3: actually strengthen. But it is I think, I guess what
[1:21:59] Speaker 3: you're getting out of is that the treatment, by its
[1:22:01] Speaker 3: own nature, is going to leave you with a disability
[1:22:04] Speaker 3: compared to if you never had the injury before. And
[1:22:07] Speaker 3: I think that That is an interesting question with regenerity medicine.
[1:22:11] Speaker 3: We did a little discussion paper saying that we need
[1:22:14] Speaker 3: a paradigm shift and how we measure outcomes. So do
[1:22:17] Speaker 3: we go? So our classic thing with outcomes is you
[1:22:20] Speaker 3: come in, you got a problem, we do an operation.
[1:22:22] Speaker 3: It could be fairly invasive, you know that, happy about it,
[1:22:24] Speaker 3: but at the end of it, you know we've got
[1:22:26] Speaker 3: a good technical result and you you're better than before
[1:22:30] Speaker 3: compared to what do you like? Is there our come
[1:22:32] Speaker 3: measure compared to if you never had the operation and
[1:22:35] Speaker 3: someone that never had the arthritis. So that's where regeneration
[1:22:39] Speaker 3: or reversal of the disease process comes into. As for it,
[1:22:43] Speaker 3: you know, is that possible even or you can we
[1:22:46] Speaker 3: start to move towards that.
[1:22:49] Speaker 2: Is it true?
[1:22:50] Speaker 1: And I don't know, it's one of these myths that
[1:22:52] Speaker 1: we help in the health world. But if you've got
[1:22:58] Speaker 1: an arth ready joint that you should use it or
[1:23:02] Speaker 1: if you stop using it, the authros just gets worse.
[1:23:05] Speaker 1: I mean, in other words, use it or lose the
[1:23:07] Speaker 1: type of thing. You know, like so you know I'm
[1:23:10] Speaker 1: someone who has you know not because I do the
[1:23:13] Speaker 1: jiu jitsu and my group is really important to me,
[1:23:16] Speaker 1: Like I've got to be able to group the g
[1:23:17] Speaker 1: and stuff like that, or group someone's elbow and.
[1:23:21] Speaker 2: And I just think that suits me.
[1:23:24] Speaker 1: Someone to say that that's actually what I want to hear,
[1:23:27] Speaker 1: I suppose probably not what I should be hearing, but
[1:23:28] Speaker 1: I what I want to hear. Therefore, I think, just
[1:23:30] Speaker 1: use your hands, mark, use your thumbs, you know which
[1:23:34] Speaker 1: I find it difficult, but use them and then your
[1:23:37] Speaker 1: group will get stronger and as a result of that,
[1:23:39] Speaker 1: you know you'll perform better in your in your jiu jitsu.
[1:23:43] Speaker 2: Is that true? Then?
[1:23:44] Speaker 1: I mean the more I if I've got arthros, that
[1:23:46] Speaker 1: I should keep using it or does it just aggravate it,
[1:23:49] Speaker 1: make it.
[1:23:49] Speaker 3: Worse if it's giving you a pain, like if you
[1:23:51] Speaker 3: had a joint problem and you're using it, it's giving
[1:23:53] Speaker 3: you pain, it's probably damaging you, particularly within you know
[1:23:56] Speaker 3: your young age, brash. That's so when you're younger, so totally.
[1:24:00] Speaker 3: So it depends on where you are, so for example,
[1:24:02] Speaker 3: and what the injury is. So when you're younger and
[1:24:05] Speaker 3: just say you have surgery, just say you got a
[1:24:08] Speaker 3: shoulder stabilization procedure. You want to get some movement back,
[1:24:11] Speaker 3: you have to your physio produces a bit of pain,
[1:24:14] Speaker 3: but you don't have necessarily a joint deterioration issue. You're
[1:24:18] Speaker 3: working on a movement problem. When you look at it
[1:24:21] Speaker 3: as you get older, it changes a lot. So I
[1:24:25] Speaker 3: get it with Fordenakel problems a lot with the physios.
[1:24:28] Speaker 3: You get someone in their fifties ccas, you send them
[1:24:31] Speaker 3: to a physios in their early twenties or late twenties,
[1:24:35] Speaker 3: and they go, well, if you move like me, I'll
[1:24:37] Speaker 3: have solved your problem. But it's not that you. In
[1:24:39] Speaker 3: some respects stiffness is of benefit to you, and you
[1:24:43] Speaker 3: want that. The worst thing you have is an R
[1:24:45] Speaker 3: three D joint. This hyper mobile because it's breaking down.
[1:24:48] Speaker 3: So your body makes your joint reduce its range of
[1:24:52] Speaker 3: motion in order to protect the joints, because those extremes
[1:24:55] Speaker 3: we were chating about before are not necessarily good things
[1:24:58] Speaker 3: to try to entertain. But with you, if you've got
[1:25:01] Speaker 3: thumb ut riders and you're there and you're getting pain
[1:25:04] Speaker 3: and you're wrestling, you're damaging those joints. A little bit
[1:25:08] Speaker 3: of movements good. So generally we look at movement with
[1:25:10] Speaker 3: an ART three DY joint that's linear or within its
[1:25:14] Speaker 3: capable range of motion without weight and it's non painful. So,
[1:25:19] Speaker 3: for example, ankle outriders try to get people that are
[1:25:22] Speaker 3: doing regenerated protocols to get on a stationary bike without
[1:25:26] Speaker 3: any resistance and try to do that fifteen twenty minutes
[1:25:29] Speaker 3: per day.
[1:25:30] Speaker 1: Quite any of the Yeah, you're not going sideways, you're
[1:25:33] Speaker 1: just going through the same motion.
[1:25:36] Speaker 3: That's right. We used to have machines we're called like
[1:25:38] Speaker 3: CPMs for the knee, you know, continuous passionive motion machines
[1:25:42] Speaker 3: for after surgery. And I think that that is pretty useful,
[1:25:45] Speaker 3: you know, for trying to rehabilitate three d our three
[1:25:48] Speaker 3: dy joints. With your thumbs a little bit more difficult,
[1:25:51] Speaker 3: you know. But I was hoping you to say, you know,
[1:25:53] Speaker 3: do we have any other tricks that we could use
[1:25:55] Speaker 3: for your thumb?
[1:25:56] Speaker 1: Do we?
[1:25:56] Speaker 3: Yeah, we do, so, you know, with the the thumb,
[1:26:00] Speaker 3: generally I do like hyperbaric and then do PRP. But
[1:26:03] Speaker 3: the pr P, as you say, it can be quite painful.
[1:26:05] Speaker 3: I tend to use quite a lot of local. The
[1:26:08] Speaker 3: body doesn't like to stenchi and it's it's got a
[1:26:11] Speaker 3: lot of nosy sceptors, which are which are identifying areas
[1:26:15] Speaker 3: your body where you had an increase in pressure. So
[1:26:18] Speaker 3: injecting straining joints, you know, you write, it's quite hard.
[1:26:21] Speaker 3: So I tend to use a lot of local and
[1:26:22] Speaker 3: I tend to do the injection a bit slower because
[1:26:25] Speaker 3: if you're going to be a candid for that type
[1:26:27] Speaker 3: of surgery, it's got to be comfortable. Otherwise you're going
[1:26:29] Speaker 3: to run a mile when you see me. You know,
[1:26:31] Speaker 3: it's got to be it's got to be a We've
[1:26:33] Speaker 3: got to be on speaking terms after the treatment.
[1:26:35] Speaker 2: Right now. I can't be. It can't be so horrified
[1:26:37] Speaker 2: that I'll never come.
[1:26:38] Speaker 3: Back, right, You're never coming back.
[1:26:41] Speaker 1: We often hear about group strength as being a marker
[1:26:47] Speaker 1: for longevity. Would you do you have a view on that?
[1:26:52] Speaker 1: I mean, I've heard lots of longevity experts talk about
[1:26:54] Speaker 1: this as to a group strength, and therefore obviously everybody's.
[1:26:58] Speaker 2: Running off trying to improve the grip strength.
[1:27:00] Speaker 1: You know, there's lots of ways from grip strength that
[1:27:03] Speaker 1: just you know, hold I guess holding the bar or
[1:27:07] Speaker 1: farmer's carries or in whatever the case, I be using
[1:27:10] Speaker 1: it in a grip machine. Would you have a view on
[1:27:13] Speaker 1: that about grip strength and longevity.
[1:27:16] Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a look, I haven't I don't have a
[1:27:18] Speaker 3: firm view on it. Like from a I can't point
[1:27:21] Speaker 3: to a scientific study to validate that as a concept.
[1:27:24] Speaker 3: But certainly, you know, the stronger you are. I think
[1:27:27] Speaker 3: that it's very important to be strong late in life
[1:27:30] Speaker 3: because you know that you're going to deteriorate. There was
[1:27:32] Speaker 3: a study that was done interesting or getting up from
[1:27:34] Speaker 3: the floor, and they looked at the time people get
[1:27:36] Speaker 3: off the floor and if you didn't get off the
[1:27:38] Speaker 3: floor within a certain amount of time, they correlated that
[1:27:40] Speaker 3: with earth in the next correlation.
[1:27:44] Speaker 2: Correlation statistical correlation.
[1:27:46] Speaker 3: There was a statistical correlation in that study. I think
[1:27:49] Speaker 3: that when you're looking at grip strength, you know, probably
[1:27:52] Speaker 3: a stronger person, you know, maybe they are going to
[1:27:54] Speaker 3: live longer. Certainly is you know when you're seek and
[1:27:57] Speaker 3: you you're you're you're not knowing so well, you're going
[1:28:00] Speaker 3: to have a weaker strength. But a lot of the
[1:28:03] Speaker 3: older people that you see, you know, the living well
[1:28:05] Speaker 3: under their hundreds and all that, they don't look that
[1:28:07] Speaker 3: strong to me. I think there's probably the most important
[1:28:11] Speaker 3: thing is going to be your stem cell and your
[1:28:13] Speaker 3: genetics that are playing a part even with our writers.
[1:28:17] Speaker 3: So the main thing with our writers is as you
[1:28:20] Speaker 3: get older, you're more likely to get it. So criny
[1:28:23] Speaker 3: disease is really correlated to getting older.
[1:28:27] Speaker 1: It maybe perhaps the way I should have put it
[1:28:31] Speaker 1: to you is as opposed to being like super strong,
[1:28:35] Speaker 1: it's grip strength is a corollary to frailty, and frailty
[1:28:44] Speaker 1: is probably I mean, I don't know scientific, which just
[1:28:47] Speaker 1: makes sense to me. If you're frail, there may be
[1:28:51] Speaker 1: a greater correlation with frailty and passing away earlier, you know,
[1:28:55] Speaker 1: because frailty is no good. You're going to fall over,
[1:28:58] Speaker 1: something's going to happen, or you can't move because so
[1:29:00] Speaker 1: frail lack of movement.
[1:29:01] Speaker 2: Et cetera. Perhaps you age quicker.
[1:29:03] Speaker 1: But so you know, the opposite of frailties grip strength,
[1:29:06] Speaker 1: you know, like strength, And maybe that's where it's going
[1:29:09] Speaker 1: to by the way, because you know people who I
[1:29:13] Speaker 1: see older in the nineties, you know the last decade,
[1:29:17] Speaker 1: who get around, well, they when I say they have
[1:29:21] Speaker 1: a good strength to get up the stairs here, had
[1:29:23] Speaker 1: old Harry triggered off here a couple of weeks ago,
[1:29:26] Speaker 1: Harry got up and down those stairs, no problem. He
[1:29:28] Speaker 1: walks from here to you know, he can walk a
[1:29:31] Speaker 1: couple of kilometers no problem. He's ninety, just turned ninety two.
[1:29:34] Speaker 1: When I shake his hand, I can feel strength in
[1:29:36] Speaker 1: his hand. He's not like he's not he doesn't have
[1:29:38] Speaker 1: Tarzan grip, but he's got a strong, strong, firm handshake.
[1:29:44] Speaker 1: And you know, I wonder everyone I know my own father, like,
[1:29:48] Speaker 1: up until the day he died, he was nearly ninety,
[1:29:50] Speaker 1: he had an incredible strength in his hand still even
[1:29:54] Speaker 1: though he was physically sort of you know, not much
[1:29:57] Speaker 1: of him, but he's his forearm and his hand was
[1:30:00] Speaker 1: quite strong. And I just wonder whether these things that
[1:30:03] Speaker 1: we keep hearing about, they're probably more observations by people,
[1:30:09] Speaker 1: just like I made an observation then that, and therefore
[1:30:12] Speaker 1: they become sort of a little bit folkloric. You know,
[1:30:15] Speaker 1: like if you want to live to one hundred or
[1:30:19] Speaker 1: ninety five or whatever it is, you have to be
[1:30:21] Speaker 1: like Harry, or you have to be like my dad.
[1:30:23] Speaker 1: One of the things we notice about Harry is he's strong.
[1:30:25] Speaker 1: He can get up the stairs. He's got strong legs. Mark,
[1:30:28] Speaker 1: your father had a strong grip. Because no one's really
[1:30:33] Speaker 1: studied anyone to there one hundred and sort of they
[1:30:36] Speaker 1: didn't follow them from the day there were ten to
[1:30:39] Speaker 1: the day there were one hundred and do it like
[1:30:41] Speaker 1: a map out to blood tests every week and you know,
[1:30:45] Speaker 1: grip strengths and you know, no one's ever really done
[1:30:47] Speaker 1: such a long term it's goed a longitudel like, yes,
[1:30:51] Speaker 1: for a long term study on these individuals as to find.
[1:30:54] Speaker 2: Out exactly what it is.
[1:30:55] Speaker 1: And it'd be fair to say these observations, observational signcience
[1:31:00] Speaker 1: has become quite prevalent in this whole longevity discussion.
[1:31:04] Speaker 3: Oh yeah, there's so there's a whole bunch of different
[1:31:07] Speaker 3: factors that come into play. I been from diet to geography.
[1:31:12] Speaker 3: I mean, it's interesting in Australia, you know, it's ranked
[1:31:15] Speaker 3: six in terms of longevity and know we do pretty well.
[1:31:18] Speaker 3: And then if you look at there's been studies done
[1:31:20] Speaker 3: in like the Mediterranean and the diet and so there
[1:31:23] Speaker 3: are a lot of things that seem to be to
[1:31:25] Speaker 3: play a role when you get down to it, Like
[1:31:29] Speaker 3: you know, say about Harry Trigerbov you know, you like
[1:31:31] Speaker 3: animated guy, like his brains when you see that genetically
[1:31:35] Speaker 3: he's does he have a purpose? Is there something else?
[1:31:38] Speaker 3: Going on there. I think they could all play a
[1:31:40] Speaker 3: role certainly being strong. I think you're right. I think
[1:31:44] Speaker 3: as you get older you want to I think resistant
[1:31:46] Speaker 3: weight exercise is very good. As you get older, you
[1:31:49] Speaker 3: need to be able to get off the floor. You
[1:31:50] Speaker 3: need to be able to have your mobility, and all
[1:31:53] Speaker 3: those endorphins and so forth. Theo acre all do feedback
[1:31:57] Speaker 3: to your brain, and also the blood supply and the
[1:32:00] Speaker 3: austination of your brain. All of these things play a role.
[1:32:02] Speaker 3: I think they're important giving you an exact fear of
[1:32:05] Speaker 3: the science of what you should do. I don't know
[1:32:07] Speaker 3: whether you've just had one of those grip things, whether
[1:32:09] Speaker 3: you did that every day, whether you would live longer.
[1:32:12] Speaker 3: I think that most of the things when you look
[1:32:13] Speaker 3: around that most things that we might go in to,
[1:32:16] Speaker 3: say a buyer hacking, you know, the citizens science of longevity.
[1:32:21] Speaker 3: I think you look at a lot of those things.
[1:32:23] Speaker 3: I think they do make a bit of a difference
[1:32:25] Speaker 3: in terms of how you feel. I don't think if
[1:32:28] Speaker 3: they were going to make a big difference, you would
[1:32:30] Speaker 3: have found someone that ate a particular vegetable that to
[1:32:34] Speaker 3: live three hundred years, you know. I don't think we're
[1:32:36] Speaker 3: seeing that and I think that most things have been tried.
[1:32:38] Speaker 3: I think that if we're going for a big sweep
[1:32:40] Speaker 3: in you know, people living too two hundred or three hundred,
[1:32:43] Speaker 3: that we're going to be looking at something different. And
[1:32:45] Speaker 3: I think it's going to be like real science, and
[1:32:47] Speaker 3: it could be already around. Like if you look at
[1:32:50] Speaker 3: the you know, the right brothers getting out of the plane. Well,
[1:32:53] Speaker 3: all of the components I had, we'd had for many years.
[1:32:56] Speaker 3: It just took someone to put them all together and
[1:32:58] Speaker 3: a kiddiehwk, you know, playing that last a little bit
[1:33:02] Speaker 3: and then from there we've made a lot of distance.
[1:33:04] Speaker 3: We need that initial breakthrough, which I don't think we've
[1:33:07] Speaker 3: seen yet. I think that we can see some things
[1:33:10] Speaker 3: that seem to have an effect. Certainly you're seeing like
[1:33:13] Speaker 3: you know, when we were young, you know, if you
[1:33:15] Speaker 3: went to the movies, you wouldn't have seen a Hollywood starlet.
[1:33:18] Speaker 3: You know, the fifty year old Hollywood starlet is now
[1:33:22] Speaker 3: looking great and doing the she's the Zex siren.
[1:33:25] Speaker 2: And so when they look younger than they did twenty
[1:33:27] Speaker 2: five years ago.
[1:33:27] Speaker 3: Yeah know, it's an amazing see you're seeing it, you're
[1:33:29] Speaker 3: seeing it as an external thing like incredible things or
[1:33:33] Speaker 3: even you know Mulon Brando. You know, he wasn't like
[1:33:37] Speaker 3: an action hero. You know, he had that older statesman role.
[1:33:42] Speaker 3: But now Tom Cruise can get out there and he
[1:33:43] Speaker 3: can be you know, what are we up to? M
[1:33:45] Speaker 3: I fifteen or whatever. Yeah, so's he's doing very active
[1:33:50] Speaker 3: related roles and still doing his own stunts. Right. So,
[1:33:53] Speaker 3: I think we can see green shoots. We can see
[1:33:55] Speaker 3: where it can be at least in terms of life
[1:33:58] Speaker 3: health rather than life expectancy. We can certainly see people
[1:34:02] Speaker 3: that are very active and doing a lot of things
[1:34:05] Speaker 3: you would have thought thirty years ago were pretty well impossible.
[1:34:08] Speaker 3: So we're seeing that. But no, I don't have a fire.
[1:34:10] Speaker 3: And I mean it'd be great if it's just like
[1:34:12] Speaker 3: you got this magic grip strength you did that get
[1:34:14] Speaker 3: an extra fifty years. I think there are so many
[1:34:17] Speaker 3: in terms of you know, your you know, your virility
[1:34:19] Speaker 3: and your strength is very important to maintain. People that
[1:34:22] Speaker 3: I see in my office that are very young, they
[1:34:25] Speaker 3: have they have a component of things that they have.
[1:34:28] Speaker 3: You know, they might be secretly doing the botox and
[1:34:31] Speaker 3: doing the the vampire facelift and doing PRP and various
[1:34:36] Speaker 3: other modalities but they also act young, and so it's
[1:34:39] Speaker 3: like that's Sophia Laran type idea, keeping the old man out.
[1:34:43] Speaker 3: You know, it might extend your life is certainly you
[1:34:45] Speaker 3: seem like you're younger as you're getting older.
[1:34:48] Speaker 1: Can I like to finish off with, well, two more things,
[1:34:51] Speaker 1: but one thing in particular. I grew up in an
[1:34:57] Speaker 1: environment where you never stretch for each trained in fact
[1:35:00] Speaker 1: at all, but then stretching became a thing. And but
[1:35:05] Speaker 1: then more recently I've been reading about and listening to
[1:35:10] Speaker 1: that it's dangerous to stretch before you.
[1:35:12] Speaker 2: Do weight exercises. But what's the deal with stretching?
[1:35:19] Speaker 1: Like you're an orthobetic surgeon, so you know, you know
[1:35:22] Speaker 1: how important is to get muscles to be pliable and flexible.
[1:35:26] Speaker 2: How what's the deal best stretching? Is it a thing?
[1:35:29] Speaker 2: I mean, do you do it separately? Do you have
[1:35:31] Speaker 2: to do it often? Should you do it after your train.
[1:35:34] Speaker 1: Or as you know, we should just dedicate a day
[1:35:37] Speaker 1: of the week when you do stretching, maybe in the
[1:35:38] Speaker 1: form of yoga or body at your own body weights.
[1:35:41] Speaker 3: Yeah. So you know there's two tops of stretching, the
[1:35:44] Speaker 3: dynamic and the static stretching. I was thinking whenever it
[1:35:47] Speaker 3: says stretching. I always thinking about the dog in the
[1:35:49] Speaker 3: morning when you get your you wake them up and
[1:35:51] Speaker 3: they and they do that.
[1:35:52] Speaker 1: Big stretch, your down dog or a lop dog, which
[1:35:55] Speaker 1: on yeah they do, my dog does.
[1:35:56] Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right. Do you think, well, the dog just
[1:35:58] Speaker 3: intuitively does it stretch before it gets on with the day.
[1:36:02] Speaker 3: I think that when you're look at stretch a bit overrated,
[1:36:04] Speaker 3: I think, but I think it's important if you're cold,
[1:36:06] Speaker 3: that's stretching and putting your joints through a range of motion,
[1:36:10] Speaker 3: this thing called prop reception that the joint needs to
[1:36:12] Speaker 3: understand where it is and time and space, and your
[1:36:15] Speaker 3: brain has a bit of an idea of feedback on
[1:36:17] Speaker 3: what it's doing. I think stretching is good for that.
[1:36:20] Speaker 3: I think stretching is also very good if you're starting
[1:36:22] Speaker 3: to get certain contractors. So some people as you see
[1:36:25] Speaker 3: them getting older, and you see the way as you know,
[1:36:28] Speaker 3: senility of gait, you know when people are walking and
[1:36:30] Speaker 3: they're sort of all bent over it. Yeah, I think
[1:36:33] Speaker 3: that's having a joint that starts to get a bit contracted.
[1:36:36] Speaker 3: I think that's good to stretch out. But I don't
[1:36:38] Speaker 3: think that it is. You know, I don't think it's
[1:36:40] Speaker 3: an absolute I think it's a good thing to do,
[1:36:43] Speaker 3: but I don't think it's going to protect you necessarily
[1:36:45] Speaker 3: from injury.
[1:36:46] Speaker 1: That's interesting because I mean, I I don't know whether
[1:36:50] Speaker 1: it being an old knark and just saying it's overrated
[1:36:53] Speaker 1: and that.
[1:36:53] Speaker 2: You know.
[1:36:54] Speaker 1: I see stretch gyms around the placing good on them,
[1:36:56] Speaker 1: and some people might like them, but I don't know
[1:36:58] Speaker 1: whether it does too much.
[1:37:00] Speaker 2: I mean, I've tried it. I don't know if it's
[1:37:02] Speaker 2: really had.
[1:37:03] Speaker 1: I haven't had any overwhelming positive experience from it. I
[1:37:07] Speaker 1: get it like if my film muscles contracting, and like
[1:37:09] Speaker 1: you say, the first thing in the morning. I definitely
[1:37:11] Speaker 1: do stretching one of.
[1:37:13] Speaker 2: My things like pilates, you know, that form of exercise.
[1:37:19] Speaker 1: It's not weight bearing. But how important is that? Because
[1:37:23] Speaker 1: I have spoken some physios who recommend that after you've
[1:37:26] Speaker 1: had an accident or you've had an injury, things like plarties.
[1:37:29] Speaker 1: It's sort of doesn't put too much tension on you,
[1:37:31] Speaker 1: but at the same time it seems to build strength.
[1:37:33] Speaker 3: Yeah, so I recommend a lot of my patients do pilarates,
[1:37:37] Speaker 3: and he's an enormously important thing. A lot of it
[1:37:40] Speaker 3: came from World War One where a German physician found
[1:37:43] Speaker 3: that he couldn't get his patients. They use put people
[1:37:45] Speaker 3: in bed for very long periods of time and then
[1:37:47] Speaker 3: they couldn't get them out, and then he devised a
[1:37:50] Speaker 3: series of exercise that were all based on the core.
[1:37:53] Speaker 3: And I think that when you look at our society,
[1:37:55] Speaker 3: we tend to have poor core, you know, and you
[1:37:59] Speaker 3: see people who said there's there's sort of stummis to
[1:38:01] Speaker 3: seeking out and they're they're using their back more than
[1:38:04] Speaker 3: the muscles in their in their abdomen in order to
[1:38:07] Speaker 3: maintain this scalital alignment as they're walking. So I think
[1:38:10] Speaker 3: pilates is fantastic for that, and I think everyone should
[1:38:13] Speaker 3: have some sort of core element to their to their
[1:38:16] Speaker 3: training as they're getting older.
[1:38:17] Speaker 1: That's very interesting, you know, like I used to I
[1:38:20] Speaker 1: don't so much have the problem now, but I used
[1:38:22] Speaker 1: to always notice if my back was sore, it's because
[1:38:25] Speaker 1: I hadn't done enough. I hadn't done enough care work.
[1:38:27] Speaker 1: And when I started doing more more core work, my
[1:38:29] Speaker 1: back used to improve. Yes, is there a relationship between
[1:38:34] Speaker 1: bad backs and and abdomen.
[1:38:36] Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely. So you're you're you want to be using
[1:38:39] Speaker 3: your abdomen more than your back, so you want to
[1:38:42] Speaker 3: get those muscles always firing and always holding you. It's
[1:38:47] Speaker 3: a classic thing when you see, you know, the soldiers
[1:38:49] Speaker 3: at attention. You know you you chest out and your
[1:38:51] Speaker 3: stomach in. It's it's really important for your back. It
[1:38:53] Speaker 3: protects your back. And as we're getting older, all of
[1:38:56] Speaker 3: us have got our three D joints within our back,
[1:38:59] Speaker 3: and the must if you use more than muscles at
[1:39:01] Speaker 3: the front, you will protect those three D joints. So
[1:39:04] Speaker 3: you right, if you lift something and you're not braced correctly,
[1:39:08] Speaker 3: or you know, you don't hold your core, you will
[1:39:10] Speaker 3: use your back more and then those joints will flare up.
[1:39:12] Speaker 1: And I think that sort of brings us back to
[1:39:14] Speaker 1: you know, lifting weights for example, or you know, is
[1:39:19] Speaker 1: that one of the things we've got to be sure
[1:39:22] Speaker 1: is that we have good form, and good form usually
[1:39:25] Speaker 1: means engaging your core correct otherwise.
[1:39:28] Speaker 2: You tend to get an injury. And then if you're
[1:39:29] Speaker 2: an injury, you get set back.
[1:39:31] Speaker 1: Especially as we get older, we get a set back.
[1:39:33] Speaker 1: My final question to you, and it's a bit out there.
[1:39:35] Speaker 1: I was only just thinking about it this morning though,
[1:39:37] Speaker 1: and you may not, you may not have an answer it.
[1:39:39] Speaker 2: But do you think that.
[1:39:42] Speaker 1: One day, using artificial intelligence and machine learning that the
[1:39:51] Speaker 1: we will be able to construct using one of the
[1:39:54] Speaker 1: protocols I don't know where's chat.
[1:39:55] Speaker 2: JPT or GROC or co violet or claud or one
[1:39:59] Speaker 2: of those II.
[1:40:03] Speaker 1: Protocols, that we might be able to get those protocols
[1:40:08] Speaker 1: to build for us, like an algorithm as to what
[1:40:13] Speaker 1: are the elements or the variables we proat better way putting,
[1:40:17] Speaker 1: and what's the weight in relation to each variable that
[1:40:20] Speaker 1: allow us to live our longest best life. You know,
[1:40:25] Speaker 1: like we're going to be you know, you know, maybe
[1:40:27] Speaker 1: we're going to need a super computer to do it
[1:40:29] Speaker 1: for us, and we need a really big data set.
[1:40:31] Speaker 2: But can you see that happening?
[1:40:33] Speaker 1: Because it just seems to me like there is no
[1:40:35] Speaker 1: one individual, no longevity expert out there who's ever said, look,
[1:40:39] Speaker 1: because someone will say in one hand, it's more ex
[1:40:41] Speaker 1: so someone say it sleeps. The number one thing someone
[1:40:44] Speaker 1: is going to say, and you know it's food or whatever,
[1:40:46] Speaker 1: but it's different for everybody. That every individual is different.
[1:40:50] Speaker 1: And therefore, if we could get some algorithm that we
[1:40:57] Speaker 1: then could put our own particular variables into we can
[1:41:01] Speaker 1: get a let's call it a customized best outcome for
[1:41:04] Speaker 1: mark or a best customer best customized outcome for good.
[1:41:09] Speaker 2: Ye do you ever do people ever talk about these.
[1:41:12] Speaker 1: Sort of things that do you ever get longevity conferences
[1:41:15] Speaker 1: where that this stuff starts to get touted?
[1:41:18] Speaker 3: I think that I think that's probably the aspiration of
[1:41:21] Speaker 3: something like neuralink. Isn't it that you'll you'll have a
[1:41:23] Speaker 3: chip and it'll be monitoring various facts. I mean, you
[1:41:26] Speaker 3: can do it. You've got the watch. Yeah, you're at
[1:41:29] Speaker 3: the watch which is monitoring your blood pressure.
[1:41:32] Speaker 1: And I'm wonder who's doing it like so so on
[1:41:36] Speaker 1: this app because I've just what makes me think about it?
[1:41:38] Speaker 1: Because yes, I look at this every morning and look
[1:41:40] Speaker 1: at my you know, my HRV. I'll look at my
[1:41:44] Speaker 1: blah blah blah of all the verose things that comes
[1:41:46] Speaker 1: off this and it's getting and the Whoop app is
[1:41:49] Speaker 1: getting much much much more sophisticated all the time, and
[1:41:52] Speaker 1: it's learning more and more about me, and I'm and
[1:41:55] Speaker 1: when I look at it, I'm learning more and more
[1:41:57] Speaker 1: about myself. And I'm noticing that and I don't know
[1:42:01] Speaker 1: what I'm talking myself into it, but I know it's
[1:42:02] Speaker 1: myself that I want to have a good sleep, and
[1:42:05] Speaker 1: maybe as a result of being in the high barrier
[1:42:07] Speaker 1: chamber and you're getting stacks of oxygen that my pain
[1:42:11] Speaker 1: is starting to go, which means I have a better sleep,
[1:42:13] Speaker 1: which means my heart rate veriability starts.
[1:42:15] Speaker 2: To improve, and overall I'm improving everywhere.
[1:42:18] Speaker 1: And then I'm thinking, well, hang on, I wonder whether
[1:42:20] Speaker 1: there's some sort of algorithm here that I could build myself.
[1:42:23] Speaker 1: And I start thinking, myself, this bloody thing is probably
[1:42:25] Speaker 1: building an algorithm on me.
[1:42:27] Speaker 2: Anyway.
[1:42:28] Speaker 1: Do people talk about this sort of stuff in your profession, like,
[1:42:31] Speaker 1: you know, as doctors and surgeons and as medical people.
[1:42:35] Speaker 3: Yeah, I look. I chat to some of my colleagues
[1:42:38] Speaker 3: about it here and there, and I think the looking
[1:42:42] Speaker 3: at work done by David Sinclair, there's other.
[1:42:44] Speaker 2: People Australian who's in America in the moment.
[1:42:48] Speaker 3: That's right at Harvard. So you do see a lot
[1:42:51] Speaker 3: of people postually in what could happen in terms of
[1:42:55] Speaker 3: getting to an objective change in lifespan and I think that, yeah,
[1:42:59] Speaker 3: that might be part of it is the measurement of it.
[1:43:02] Speaker 3: So you're saying about we start off with diagnosis, you know,
[1:43:05] Speaker 3: how do we make a plan as to what you
[1:43:07] Speaker 3: need and how would we analyze that. It'd be interesting
[1:43:10] Speaker 3: to see that biomarkers that you could potentially would be
[1:43:13] Speaker 3: very important in that, and then that could lead to
[1:43:16] Speaker 3: a cascading series of treatments. So, for example, I know
[1:43:20] Speaker 3: that there's a better friend who does stem cell not
[1:43:24] Speaker 3: here but overseas, and a lot of people are having
[1:43:27] Speaker 3: stem cell infusions, and so that might be something of
[1:43:31] Speaker 3: it that you get a replenishment of the cells that
[1:43:36] Speaker 3: you need that are really important apart from just a
[1:43:40] Speaker 3: growing organs outside the body and replacing those which might
[1:43:44] Speaker 3: allow some conditions to be treated rather than you actually
[1:43:47] Speaker 3: living longer. So I think, yeah, I think it's possible
[1:43:52] Speaker 3: what it will be. I don't think we necessarily know
[1:43:56] Speaker 3: what those marks would be. I mentioned it's going to
[1:43:58] Speaker 3: be something at a cell level that we're going to
[1:44:01] Speaker 3: be monitoring, you know, something like the DNA degradation and
[1:44:06] Speaker 3: this this chip or whatever it is. We'll measure that
[1:44:09] Speaker 3: and we'll say to you, okay, now you need to
[1:44:11] Speaker 3: go and have X y Z treatment or you know,
[1:44:15] Speaker 3: you we're picked up that you've got a problem with
[1:44:17] Speaker 3: this particular organ and from your biomarkers, and it's happening
[1:44:22] Speaker 3: all the time at the moment. For example, you know,
[1:44:24] Speaker 3: when you with some interventional things and you know, you
[1:44:27] Speaker 3: go to your GP and you you know, you get
[1:44:30] Speaker 3: your you know, you get your still sample. You know
[1:44:32] Speaker 3: that to look to see there's blood there. You know,
[1:44:35] Speaker 3: that's always a confronting thing that the government hit you
[1:44:37] Speaker 3: with as you get older. You know, So there are
[1:44:40] Speaker 3: some things that we're measuring. There's a lot of things
[1:44:42] Speaker 3: we're not measuring, and perhaps we could be measuring those
[1:44:45] Speaker 3: and then doing interventions that are happening that you know
[1:44:48] Speaker 3: about and so you don't have to physically initiate the test.
[1:44:52] Speaker 3: It's sort of happening automatically. That would be a great
[1:44:55] Speaker 3: thing we could come up with that.
[1:44:56] Speaker 1: What's your hope for longevity or the world of longevity?
[1:45:00] Speaker 1: What do you hope will happen in your lifetime?
[1:45:04] Speaker 3: It's I don't know, like it's it's quite interesting in
[1:45:07] Speaker 3: our life terms. You know, we're chatting about this a
[1:45:10] Speaker 3: couple of days ago. You know, I was statistically, you know,
[1:45:15] Speaker 3: twelve years or fifteen or twenty years. Can you ignore
[1:45:18] Speaker 3: it well, I suppose you can't ignore it to a degree.
[1:45:20] Speaker 3: I'd like to think that number one that we can
[1:45:22] Speaker 3: work on life health. So life health I think is attainable.
[1:45:26] Speaker 3: I think it's here. Maybe we can avoid subjects. So
[1:45:30] Speaker 3: how you're living so that you're active and your fits.
[1:45:33] Speaker 3: It wouldn't be great if you're you know, as you're saying,
[1:45:35] Speaker 3: you're ninety five and you can run a marathons and
[1:45:38] Speaker 3: then you know, maybe you don't live past one hundred,
[1:45:41] Speaker 3: but you you're very active until that time. Certainly your
[1:45:45] Speaker 3: mind's active, So you know, I think that my in
[1:45:48] Speaker 3: my life span, I think that I would like to
[1:45:50] Speaker 3: live a long time and seek grandchildren, those sort of things,
[1:45:53] Speaker 3: and be active and my mind being active, physically active
[1:45:58] Speaker 3: in that time. An objective change in our in our lifespan.
[1:46:02] Speaker 3: I think we're not there yet, and I think it's
[1:46:06] Speaker 3: going to it's going to be one of those things.
[1:46:07] Speaker 3: I think we're probably frustratingly, God, we've probably got all
[1:46:12] Speaker 3: those things at our fingertips right now.
[1:46:14] Speaker 2: The right brothers.
[1:46:16] Speaker 3: We love the right brothers. So I think we love
[1:46:17] Speaker 3: the right brothers. We don't know how to put them together.
[1:46:20] Speaker 3: I think it's I think it's they're probably there, and
[1:46:23] Speaker 3: I think that I think that we'll get there. I
[1:46:25] Speaker 3: don't think that we're naturally We're going to absolutely have
[1:46:29] Speaker 3: to diet the rate that we do now, and I
[1:46:32] Speaker 3: think there's no real problem where they're standing to two
[1:46:34] Speaker 3: hundred or three hundred. Certainly you see it in comparative
[1:46:37] Speaker 3: longevity that animals can do it. We're sort of a
[1:46:40] Speaker 3: bit frustrated in it. We won't be able to do
[1:46:43] Speaker 3: it without real science and real intervention. I don't think
[1:46:46] Speaker 3: it's going to be like a vegetable that you eat,
[1:46:48] Speaker 3: or a diet, or even though diet's very important, I
[1:46:51] Speaker 3: don't think that's going to be the thing that's going
[1:46:52] Speaker 3: to do it for us.
[1:46:54] Speaker 2: That's very interesting because.
[1:46:57] Speaker 1: There are people out there now who are selling these things,
[1:47:00] Speaker 1: and because it's really confusing most people. I'm one of them,
[1:47:08] Speaker 1: And the more I know, more confused I get. The
[1:47:12] Speaker 1: most people like me think, well, may as well just
[1:47:15] Speaker 1: try these things. But the question you're not going to
[1:47:20] Speaker 1: try it for a lifetime because by the time you
[1:47:21] Speaker 1: try it for years, something news come out and you think, wait,
[1:47:24] Speaker 1: should we be doing that? And then something new comes
[1:47:26] Speaker 1: in and you say, wait a minute, should be trying
[1:47:27] Speaker 1: to do that, and I tend to bounce around the
[1:47:31] Speaker 1: joint and it is frustrating, which is probably the reason
[1:47:33] Speaker 1: why I'm doing Project one hundred, to be honest, is
[1:47:36] Speaker 1: to talk have an opportunity to talk to people like you
[1:47:38] Speaker 1: and various other people who we've got got on the
[1:47:40] Speaker 1: show and got these lots of different people coming up
[1:47:43] Speaker 1: up on the show. We I and my team and myself,
[1:47:51] Speaker 1: we want to expose from leaders in the medical profession
[1:47:57] Speaker 1: like yourself, and people who are also in the medical
[1:48:02] Speaker 1: profession has prepared to be brave and courageous and try
[1:48:06] Speaker 1: new things like hbot another world, but not that you're
[1:48:10] Speaker 1: inventing it, but you're bringing it from somewhere else. You know,
[1:48:13] Speaker 1: protocols from other places which look like they're working. Bring
[1:48:16] Speaker 1: those things to Australia and maybe just through observational science,
[1:48:23] Speaker 1: just see outcomes, watch out comes, not necessarily measured science,
[1:48:26] Speaker 1: but at least observational science, which is what I was
[1:48:30] Speaker 1: trying to say before in terms of my own.
[1:48:33] Speaker 2: Experience in your over barier chamber.
[1:48:37] Speaker 1: We need people more people like that, And the show's
[1:48:39] Speaker 1: about me exposing the public to put more people like
[1:48:43] Speaker 1: you instead of us just sitting on our hands and
[1:48:46] Speaker 1: just doing what we've always done. I think doing what
[1:48:49] Speaker 1: we're always done is going to get the same outcome.
[1:48:51] Speaker 1: We're going to have the same outcome that we've always had.
[1:48:55] Speaker 1: We'll die at eighty three or eighty two point six,
[1:48:59] Speaker 1: And I don't know if people really want that. As
[1:49:03] Speaker 1: you know, young people can probably aren't that worried about it.
[1:49:06] Speaker 1: But when you start approaching that period, I can assure
[1:49:09] Speaker 1: you it is a short time and you think, my god,
[1:49:12] Speaker 1: this is not right, this is this is not not
[1:49:15] Speaker 1: that it's not fair, but you think, oh my god,
[1:49:17] Speaker 1: why hasn't someone done something about this? And this show
[1:49:22] Speaker 1: was about just teasing that. And what you've done today
[1:49:26] Speaker 1: is you've exposed us to HBOT. There's lots of things
[1:49:29] Speaker 1: we need to be exposed to, but we need to
[1:49:33] Speaker 1: continually tease the system, and we need people who have
[1:49:38] Speaker 1: enough courage to people like you have enough courage. We'll
[1:49:42] Speaker 1: have courage, we'll try it, but we need someone like
[1:49:44] Speaker 1: you to bring it here for us to try, because
[1:49:46] Speaker 1: we're not going to go to New York and meet
[1:49:48] Speaker 1: the dude over there. And you know, we have no
[1:49:50] Speaker 1: access to these individuals. We don't even know who they are.
[1:49:54] Speaker 1: So we need more of this, much more of this Australians.
[1:49:58] Speaker 1: You know, the rest of the world too, but the Australians,
[1:50:00] Speaker 1: as far as I'm concerned, we work hard. We deserve
[1:50:04] Speaker 1: to live as well and as long as we possibly can.
[1:50:06] Speaker 1: I think I actually think as a government policy that
[1:50:11] Speaker 1: should exist in this country that's not about just working
[1:50:14] Speaker 1: hard and retiring sixty five and you've got some super
[1:50:18] Speaker 1: I think government policy should extend to making sure that
[1:50:23] Speaker 1: Australians can live as well and as long as absolutely possible.
[1:50:26] Speaker 1: They should, you know, we should be trying to achieve
[1:50:29] Speaker 1: that goal. No other countries should be able to do us.
[1:50:32] Speaker 1: And if they are doing this, we should be looking
[1:50:34] Speaker 1: at what they're doing and how can we copy that
[1:50:38] Speaker 1: or adopt that into our own system. And that's what
[1:50:41] Speaker 1: probably one hundred's about. To get the best possible outcome
[1:50:46] Speaker 1: for every single person lives on our continent. That's what
[1:50:52] Speaker 1: I think Australian government should do. And I by way,
[1:50:54] Speaker 1: any government puts their hand up for that, you win
[1:50:56] Speaker 1: the election. Gordon, Thanks for much, doctor Gordon Slater, thanks
[1:51:00] Speaker 1: very much.
[1:51:00] Speaker 3: Fe

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