# Stress & Longevity: The Neuroscience & Tools You Need to Know with Dr. Lila Landowski

An episode of [Project 100 with Mark Bouris](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1767053714), 14 Sep 2025, 1 h 01 min.

Audio: https://p.podderapp.com/2544644999/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/2fb3740d-3436-44af-8cc0-a91900716aa5/05ac4e52-79fb-46b8-849c-b305000bd6d0/806acb90-fdb4-47cd-bb0a-b358016e0feb/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=ef13e652-7a19-41fd-9d0f-b305000bd6dc

All content and media by Project 100 is created and published online for informational purposes only. It is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice and should not be relied on as health or personal advice. **** Dr. Lila Landowski is a neuroscientist, lecturer at the University of Tasmania, and Vice President of Science & Technology Australia. In this episode, we unpack the science of stress and its impact on longevity. You’ll learn how chronic stress influences neurodegenerative disease, why not all stress is bad, and the mindset shifts that help build resilience. Dr. Landowski also shares practical tools to manage stress and improve sleep, the powerful role of social connection and prosocial behaviours, and the hidden downsides of alcohol and drugs in stress management. We also explore how continual learning and cognitive reserve can protect your brain as you age. If you want to understand how stress really affects your body and mind—and discover the science-backed tools to take control—this episode is a must-listen. One product I’ve recently added to my routine from the Bulk Nutrients range is their NMN Extend. It’s a science-backed blend of 10 powerful ingredients, including NMN, Resveratrol, and Hyaluronic Acid, designed to support everything from energy and muscle recovery, to skin hydration, joint health, and event mental clarity. Check out their NMN extend product here: https://www.bulknutrients.com.au/products/nmn-capsules Eight Sleep’s newest generation, Pod 5. isn’t just another bed-frame add-on; it’s a high-tech mattress cover that actively adjusts to your body temperature throughout the night, cooling, warming, and even elevating your body when needed, all based on real-time data. The new Pod 5 introduces for the first time, a hydro-powered blanket system, utilising the same technology as the cover to extend temperature regulation across your entire body, not just the mattress surface. Clinically proven to increase quality sleep by up to one hour each night, it’s basically like having an AI-powered sleep coach, personal thermostat, and advanced health tracker working for you while you rest. Head on over to eightsleep.com/project100 and use the code PROJECT100 (that’s Project one-zero-zero) and get up to $550 off your very own Pod 5. Trust me, your body will thank you for this investment in better sleep. The all-new WHOOP is here — now 7% smaller with 14+ days of battery life. New features like Healthspan show how your daily habits are affecting your rate of aging — and now you can check your blood pressure straight from your wrist. If you’re serious about performance, longevity, and actual progress — this is it. Sign up for a one-month free trial at WHOOP.com — or visit join.whoop.com/mentored for one month off your annual membership fee. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:00] Speaker 1: If you've been listening along for a while, you'll know
[0:03] Speaker 1: I'm all about staying sharp physically and mentally as I
[0:06] Speaker 1: get older. Staying on top of my game means being
[0:09] Speaker 1: smarter with how I support my body and mind day
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[0:37] Speaker 1: a busy week or just investing in my long term health.
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[0:47] Speaker 1: Nutrients dot com dot au and see why and Extend
[0:51] Speaker 1: might be the edge you've just been looking for. Doctor
[0:54] Speaker 1: Lila Leandowski, Welcome to Project one hundred.
[0:57] Speaker 2: Thanks for having me.
[0:58] Speaker 1: I really appreciate you come from Tasmania to say.
[1:01] Speaker 2: Yes, the deep, dark South, the Deep.
[1:02] Speaker 1: I love it down there, and you're you're a neuroscientist.
[1:06] Speaker 1: You're a lecture at University of Tasmania. I'm you're the
[1:09] Speaker 1: VP of Science and Technology Australia. Maybe you can tell
[1:13] Speaker 1: the audience just a little bit more about yourself other
[1:15] Speaker 1: than what I've just covered off. So you know, what's
[1:17] Speaker 1: the neuroscientists do? For example?
[1:19] Speaker 2: Oh look, I'm a lover of science and a lover
[1:22] Speaker 2: especially of the brain. So I kind of never actually
[1:24] Speaker 2: planned to do neuroscience, but I always wanted to work
[1:26] Speaker 2: in you know, therapeutic development for illnesses, right, And I
[1:31] Speaker 2: ended up in neuroscience basically after sitting in a lecture
[1:34] Speaker 2: with a neuroscientist too. It's doing really interesting stuff and
[1:38] Speaker 2: I was really intrigued by that research and I had
[1:40] Speaker 2: some ideas about how we could take it forward. So
[1:42] Speaker 2: that's kind of how I ended up in research, at
[1:45] Speaker 2: least in neuroscience. But research was always my dream with
[1:48] Speaker 2: my goal, and as a neuroscientist, it's an incredible blessing
[1:52] Speaker 2: to be able to spend your day thinking of questions
[1:55] Speaker 2: and figuring out how to answer them. So that's kind
[1:57] Speaker 2: of what I get to do on a daily basis.
[2:01] Speaker 1: Brain science or neuroscience. I guess that's the better words neuroscience.
[2:05] Speaker 1: But brain science is sort of like for me, like
[2:08] Speaker 1: there's outer space that's you know, going to the stars
[2:11] Speaker 1: or Mars, where we've got aspirations to go to, but
[2:13] Speaker 1: there's also in a space and I think they're both
[2:17] Speaker 1: totally unexplored. Yeah, and so fascinating it is.
[2:20] Speaker 2: It is the great frontier. I think we talk about,
[2:23] Speaker 2: you know, up in space being the great frontier, but
[2:25] Speaker 2: actually it's in here.
[2:26] Speaker 1: Yeah. And I don't know why we spend so much
[2:28] Speaker 1: money going up that way when we could be doing
[2:30] Speaker 1: a lot more down this way. And what are you
[2:32] Speaker 1: researching now? What's some of your research topics you're looking at?
[2:35] Speaker 2: So right now I'm spending less time in the lab. So,
[2:38] Speaker 2: but things that I have worked on in the past
[2:40] Speaker 2: is nerve regeneration, so finding ways to get nerves to
[2:43] Speaker 2: grow back, And in my doctorate, I discovered a natural
[2:46] Speaker 2: protein that could regenerate nerves in the skin. I've also
[2:49] Speaker 2: worked in stroke, in dementia and also using nanotechnology to
[2:54] Speaker 2: try and help outcomes in stroke as well.
[2:57] Speaker 1: And for neuroscientists, you mentioned nerves. Nerves are part of
[3:02] Speaker 1: the brain, yes, yeah, so like just so be clear
[3:04] Speaker 1: for our listeners. I mean the nervous system is all
[3:07] Speaker 1: attached to the brain somehow, I guess. Is that correct
[3:11] Speaker 1: to me? You're as interested in the nervous system as
[3:13] Speaker 1: you are about what's going on the inside of our head.
[3:16] Speaker 2: Absolutely, so, I mean the nervous system start. Part of
[3:19] Speaker 2: it is in our brain, but it spans out throughout
[3:21] Speaker 2: our body, and it's providing instructions for our body parts,
[3:25] Speaker 2: telling those body parts what to do. But it's also
[3:27] Speaker 2: taking information from our body parts and taking that information
[3:30] Speaker 2: to the brain, so it knows how good those instructions were.
[3:34] Speaker 2: And you know, that's how we're able to balance on
[3:36] Speaker 2: a type rope for example. We're getting instructions to our
[3:39] Speaker 2: legs about our balance and making sure that we balance,
[3:41] Speaker 2: but also getting input from our body about how good
[3:45] Speaker 2: we are at doing that, and we can adjust our
[3:47] Speaker 2: balance accordingly. So really it's this whole beautiful dynamic system
[3:51] Speaker 2: that works together in synchrony. And it's really really incredible
[3:55] Speaker 2: the amount of computations that our brain is doing. So
[3:58] Speaker 2: if our brain was a computer, it would be doing
[4:00] Speaker 2: about a billion billion calculations per second, and you'd need
[4:03] Speaker 2: about a million laptops to do that. Wow, our brain
[4:06] Speaker 2: is doing that on the power of a light bulb.
[4:09] Speaker 1: Wow, So that you're talking about the electrical system in
[4:13] Speaker 1: our brain is equivalent to the power of one light bulb.
[4:16] Speaker 2: That's it. So imagine if we could, you know, somehow
[4:20] Speaker 2: harness that efficiency with our computers, it would be incredible.
[4:23] Speaker 2: But we're not there yet.
[4:25] Speaker 1: One day quantum quantum contum. Well, talking about the brain
[4:30] Speaker 1: and talking about the nervous system. I and longevity, which
[4:36] Speaker 1: is sort of what probably one hundred is all about.
[4:38] Speaker 1: I'm really interested to talk to you about longevity relative
[4:43] Speaker 1: to those things that will affect our longevity that actually
[4:47] Speaker 1: can emanate from the brain. And one that's really intriguing
[4:51] Speaker 1: to me is the whole concept of stress. I had
[4:55] Speaker 1: a friend of mine many years ago who was a
[4:57] Speaker 1: He was a liver specialist and a gastro durologist and
[5:04] Speaker 1: an older guy, and he's our password. But in the
[5:07] Speaker 1: nineties he told me because I was actually interested, I
[5:11] Speaker 1: was very stressed out at work, et cetera. I had
[5:13] Speaker 1: a high sort of high stress job, and I always
[5:17] Speaker 1: thought to myself, stress makes you sick. I don't know
[5:20] Speaker 1: why I thought that, but I just thought it could
[5:21] Speaker 1: do that. And I asked him one day because he
[5:23] Speaker 1: was my next sort neighbor and asked him one day
[5:25] Speaker 1: and said, can stress cause ulcers? And he said to me,
[5:28] Speaker 1: He then went on through this process to explain how
[5:31] Speaker 1: some Australians want a Nobel Prize for science for discovering
[5:36] Speaker 1: that some ULCs are caused by I think all helier
[5:40] Speaker 1: back to Pylauri and that they'd also discovered a way
[5:44] Speaker 1: of curing out a certain antibiotic. And he said, so
[5:47] Speaker 1: stress doesn't affect us, it doesn't have a physical outcome.
[5:55] Speaker 1: I never sort of believed him. It just didn't make
[5:58] Speaker 1: sense to me. Maybe he doesn't give your stomachs. But
[6:01] Speaker 1: where does stress fit into and our ability to control
[6:06] Speaker 1: stress fit into our longevity game? Because that's the new
[6:10] Speaker 1: game now.
[6:10] Speaker 2: Longevity, Oh truly, and it is inextricably linked, and our
[6:14] Speaker 2: understanding is just completely evolving now. I think if we
[6:18] Speaker 2: maybe take it back a step and talk about what
[6:20] Speaker 2: stress is actually doing in the body. So fundamentally, stress
[6:23] Speaker 2: is there to help us survive. It's there to help
[6:26] Speaker 2: us reach peak performance when we're stressed, whether it's being
[6:30] Speaker 2: stuck in traffic or having an argument, or trying to
[6:33] Speaker 2: complete a task. We're releasing all of these neurochemicals that
[6:36] Speaker 2: are essentially preparing us to meet that challenge. It's going
[6:39] Speaker 2: to be diverting blood from non essential things like out digestion, yes, digestion,
[6:45] Speaker 2: taking it away from digestion, taking away from your skin.
[6:47] Speaker 2: So you can imagine if it's taking it away from
[6:49] Speaker 2: those things, your skin will age faster, your gut you
[6:53] Speaker 2: might experience ir irritable, bout kind of symptoms as a
[6:56] Speaker 2: result of that. So that's one thing, But it's taking
[6:59] Speaker 2: energy to the organs and the brain structures that are
[7:03] Speaker 2: going to help you thrive in that situation. So your
[7:06] Speaker 2: airways will dilate, Signals will be sent to your muscles
[7:09] Speaker 2: to make you know, the blood vessels and your muscles dilate,
[7:12] Speaker 2: so more blood flow gets to there, so that way
[7:14] Speaker 2: you can escape a situation. You'll get more blood flow
[7:16] Speaker 2: to certain regions in the brain as well. So really
[7:19] Speaker 2: all of this beautiful, you know, beautifully linked pathway is
[7:24] Speaker 2: there to help us thrive, but also there's a spin
[7:27] Speaker 2: off as well, So it will help you in the
[7:30] Speaker 2: short term, but if you're constantly experiencing stress in the
[7:34] Speaker 2: long term, well there are going to be consequences. To
[7:37] Speaker 2: reduce blood flow to the gut and to the skin,
[7:40] Speaker 2: you'll get wrinkles, your hair might fall out, and you
[7:44] Speaker 2: might have those symptoms in your bowel and your gut.
[7:46] Speaker 2: As I spoke about as well.
[7:50] Speaker 1: Can it cause things like is there any correlation or
[7:55] Speaker 1: any studies that indicate correlation perhaps as a postal causation
[7:59] Speaker 1: things like strokes or brain are the brain disorders.
[8:07] Speaker 2: So we do know that you have an increased risk
[8:09] Speaker 2: of neurodegenerative diseases. And basically it causes your cells across
[8:14] Speaker 2: your entire body to age faster. So it affects every
[8:18] Speaker 2: cell in your body, right down to the level of
[8:19] Speaker 2: your genes.
[8:20] Speaker 1: Is it through like as an oxidation, is it oxidaty stress?
[8:23] Speaker 1: What are we talking about?
[8:25] Speaker 2: As stress? Hormone cortisol literally will go into cells and
[8:28] Speaker 2: affect even the nucleus of a cell.
[8:30] Speaker 1: Wow.
[8:31] Speaker 2: So it's a very powerful modulator of how our body functions. Now,
[8:36] Speaker 2: when we think about stress, we often think about things
[8:38] Speaker 2: like adrenaline, and that affects your body in the short
[8:40] Speaker 2: term for a couple of minutes. You know, has a
[8:42] Speaker 2: very short half life, so it doesn't stain your body
[8:44] Speaker 2: for a long time, but cortisole hangs around for a
[8:47] Speaker 2: couple of hours, and in fact, if you're really stressed,
[8:50] Speaker 2: it'll hang around for a lot longer than that. So
[8:52] Speaker 2: you can imagine if you're experiencing things throughout the course
[8:55] Speaker 2: of the day that are causing you to be stressed,
[8:58] Speaker 2: and it could be more obscure things, or more things
[9:01] Speaker 2: that we don't think about, like not being able to
[9:03] Speaker 2: pay the bills, or you're caring for someone who's sick.
[9:06] Speaker 2: That is going to be constantly triggering that stress response,
[9:09] Speaker 2: and that has consequences for the long term. So in
[9:12] Speaker 2: the short term it's great, but in the long term
[9:15] Speaker 2: it will actually affect the way our brain cells connect,
[9:18] Speaker 2: the way our brain cells function, and in fact, it
[9:21] Speaker 2: causes some brain cells to die in certain regions of
[9:24] Speaker 2: the brain, and that of course has drastic consequences on
[9:27] Speaker 2: the way we behave.
[9:29] Speaker 1: So maybe you just explain something to me. So there's
[9:35] Speaker 1: different types of stress, So I guess there's probably good
[9:37] Speaker 1: stress and bad stress, and good stress can can help
[9:42] Speaker 1: us build adaptations. So maybe you could I'm talking as
[9:48] Speaker 1: a layment, of course, but maybe you can sort of
[9:50] Speaker 1: narrow it down. What are the how do you define
[9:52] Speaker 1: a good stress versus bad stress, I mean, what's the difference.
[9:56] Speaker 2: Well, I guess there's the emotional component. So let's say
[10:00] Speaker 2: you are exercising. That's a good stress for the body. Right,
[10:03] Speaker 2: it's going to be releasing all of these incredible factors
[10:06] Speaker 2: that improve brain function, improved blood flow. It even releases
[10:10] Speaker 2: things like brain derived neurotrophic factor, which is essentially like
[10:13] Speaker 2: a fertilizer for the brain. So it really helps your
[10:15] Speaker 2: brain to function optimally. But if you hate exercise, then
[10:20] Speaker 2: you'll respond slightly differently. So if you enjoy exercise, you
[10:24] Speaker 2: also release things like endorphins which make you feel good.
[10:27] Speaker 2: But if you don't like exercise, you won't release them,
[10:30] Speaker 2: and therefore you'll have more of those negative responses as
[10:34] Speaker 2: a result of that. And a really good study that
[10:36] Speaker 2: kind of reflects what I'm trying to say here is
[10:40] Speaker 2: they've done studies, for example, on rats, and the rats
[10:43] Speaker 2: will be rats love running on a running wheel. They
[10:46] Speaker 2: would just do it as much as they can. They
[10:48] Speaker 2: love it. And the rats that are doing it of
[10:51] Speaker 2: their own choice will have these changes in the brain,
[10:54] Speaker 2: they'll have essentially positive effects on their physiology. But if
[10:58] Speaker 2: you were to force a rat to run, it has
[11:01] Speaker 2: the opposite effect. It's basically causing stress in a negative way,
[11:06] Speaker 2: and that has consequences not just for how the behaves,
[11:10] Speaker 2: but also for its metabolism, also for its risk of
[11:15] Speaker 2: you know, ultimately risk of any of negative consequences. So
[11:19] Speaker 2: really it can be good and it can be bad.
[11:23] Speaker 2: And the difference is really your perception of the stress.
[11:26] Speaker 1: So and that's as good things to talk about, your
[11:31] Speaker 1: perception of the stress. How do we everyone has a
[11:35] Speaker 1: different perception of themselves being stressed. Is that because of
[11:41] Speaker 1: I know, some sort of DNA that we've inherited from
[11:44] Speaker 1: our parents, or is it something we've developed as we're
[11:46] Speaker 1: growing up as kids, like through a socialization of our families.
[11:52] Speaker 1: And how do you know? Like if I'm trying to
[11:55] Speaker 1: live as long as I possibly can, and I know
[11:59] Speaker 1: that certain things stress me out, like at work, for example,
[12:02] Speaker 1: something there's something there are some things that I get
[12:04] Speaker 1: really aggravated by. How do I know whether they're good
[12:09] Speaker 1: stresses for me or bad stress? Because you know, I
[12:12] Speaker 1: could just stop work, go and become a farmer, or
[12:15] Speaker 1: go and play golf every day. And because I see
[12:18] Speaker 1: those guys I went to school with those guys, and
[12:20] Speaker 1: those guys are you know, friends of mine, and they
[12:22] Speaker 1: look terrible and they don't look like they're going to
[12:24] Speaker 1: live longer than me. That's just my view, haunted at
[12:26] Speaker 1: the moment. They're probably happy, I think they think. I
[12:30] Speaker 1: think they think they're happy. But I also fell as
[12:33] Speaker 1: they're not challenging themselves enough. And I see Dr Davis
[12:36] Speaker 1: Sinclair say things like, you know, in terms of exercise,
[12:40] Speaker 1: we should stress ourselves, exercise stress and push ourselves to
[12:46] Speaker 1: a limit. And actually, and that's the only way you
[12:48] Speaker 1: get proper adaptations as we get older. Yes, maybe you
[12:52] Speaker 1: can sort of dig into that a little bit for me,
[12:53] Speaker 1: because I find it completely confusing. Everyone's got a different view.
[12:57] Speaker 2: Mindset matters. So we're talking about this a little bit
[13:01] Speaker 2: before we went on air, and it really comes down
[13:05] Speaker 2: to your perception of it. And another example that I
[13:08] Speaker 2: can give of how this works. So there's a really
[13:10] Speaker 2: cool study done by doctor Crumb quite a long time
[13:14] Speaker 2: ago now and her lab. We're basically looking at how
[13:17] Speaker 2: your body responds to stress depending on what you think
[13:20] Speaker 2: about stress. So they've had a group of managers and
[13:23] Speaker 2: they told some of the managers about the positive effects
[13:26] Speaker 2: of stress that yes, it's there to help you reach
[13:28] Speaker 2: peak performance, and your airways opening up means more oxygen
[13:32] Speaker 2: is getting into your lungs, and that oxygen is going
[13:34] Speaker 2: to help you know your body function and getting more
[13:37] Speaker 2: blood flow to you muscles means that you're going to
[13:39] Speaker 2: perform better. And having that mindset of that it's a
[13:42] Speaker 2: good thing me ultimately meant that they released a little
[13:46] Speaker 2: bit less cortisol or just the right amount of cortisol
[13:49] Speaker 2: to allow them to do well. But for the people
[13:52] Speaker 2: who were taught beforehand about the negative effects of stress,
[13:56] Speaker 2: which are true, but it's also about mindset, right, they
[13:59] Speaker 2: were taught about those negative things and they responded very differently.
[14:03] Speaker 2: So if you think about it, we have this sort
[14:05] Speaker 2: of optimal level of cortisol in our body to function,
[14:09] Speaker 2: you know, in challenging situations, and if you have too much,
[14:13] Speaker 2: you end up with anxiety and your performance actually goes down.
[14:17] Speaker 2: And if you don't have enough, then you also have
[14:19] Speaker 2: poor performance. And we see this in athletes who let's
[14:23] Speaker 2: say they're playing basketball and there's a really easy shot
[14:26] Speaker 2: and you know that they can do it, but there's
[14:28] Speaker 2: the crowd roaring behind them, and there's so much pressure.
[14:31] Speaker 1: And you need to win.
[14:32] Speaker 2: Yes, yes, and their cortisole actually goes above the range
[14:35] Speaker 2: that it's meant to be and as a result, their
[14:37] Speaker 2: performance goes down and they miss the shot. So by
[14:42] Speaker 2: changing their mindset and realizing that actually, no, this is
[14:45] Speaker 2: good stress, it's helping us to reach peak performance, it
[14:47] Speaker 2: means that they will perform better. And in this study
[14:51] Speaker 2: with managers, the ones that actually knew that stress was
[14:54] Speaker 2: a performance enhancing thing not only released the right amount
[14:58] Speaker 2: of cortisol, they did better. As opposed to the ones
[15:01] Speaker 2: who perceived it as being a negative thing. They performed
[15:03] Speaker 2: the worst and didn't have the right amount of quartersol.
[15:06] Speaker 2: It was either too much or two later.
[15:07] Speaker 1: So how do you how would one t trate that
[15:09] Speaker 1: though in themselves?
[15:11] Speaker 2: I mean knowledge, Knowledge is power. So once you know
[15:15] Speaker 2: that actually stress can enhance your performance, that changes everything.
[15:20] Speaker 2: If you don't know that, you're going to view your
[15:23] Speaker 2: sweaty palms and you're racing heart as a negative thing.
[15:26] Speaker 2: But if you remind yourself, actually it's there to make
[15:28] Speaker 2: me be the best version of myself, then you will
[15:31] Speaker 2: perform better.
[15:31] Speaker 1: Say it's a long, long term stress. For example, let
[15:35] Speaker 1: me just think of something it's not just on today's transaction.
[15:40] Speaker 1: It's something you're building up towards. Maybe you're trying to
[15:43] Speaker 1: get your PhD publications out and you've got five chapters
[15:48] Speaker 1: and you're coming up to defend your phdre and it's
[15:53] Speaker 1: been going on now for months, and you haven't had
[15:57] Speaker 1: enough publications in order to get the public the PhD awarded.
[16:02] Speaker 1: I'm trying to think of something it might be relevant
[16:04] Speaker 1: to you. And this anxiety stress goes on for months.
[16:10] Speaker 1: It's there when you go to bed and said when
[16:12] Speaker 1: you wake up in the morning. It's just it's not
[16:15] Speaker 1: just a little thing has occurred today, just taking your goal,
[16:19] Speaker 1: but it's something that's just traveling with me for months.
[16:22] Speaker 1: How do you deal with that sort of thing.
[16:24] Speaker 2: In terms of your perception of the stress, right, that's
[16:27] Speaker 2: where it comes into play where you use other techniques
[16:30] Speaker 2: to reduce the effects of stress on your body. So
[16:33] Speaker 2: maybe you can't change your mindset so much, but you
[16:35] Speaker 2: can change how you respond to that stress, and that
[16:39] Speaker 2: is where you might start to use certain tools to
[16:41] Speaker 2: reduce the effects of stress on your body. So exercise,
[16:45] Speaker 2: for example, is you know it is fundamentally a stressor,
[16:49] Speaker 2: but in the long term, it increases your resilience to stress.
[16:53] Speaker 2: Another thing you could do is using the physiological SiGe.
[16:56] Speaker 2: So this is gaining.
[16:57] Speaker 1: Popularity physiological side physiology breathing.
[17:01] Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, And I mean kids do this all the
[17:04] Speaker 2: time if they're throwing a tantrum and they'll be like, yeah,
[17:08] Speaker 2: we do it unconsciously. But using that to inhales and
[17:12] Speaker 2: then a long exhale, then ultimately it's the fastest way
[17:16] Speaker 2: to switch off that stress response. Other things you could
[17:20] Speaker 2: do include using a sauna, So saunas will also decrease
[17:25] Speaker 2: your cortisol response over time as well. Yes, I up
[17:27] Speaker 2: to about twenty percent. Other things and pact one cold baths, well,
[17:34] Speaker 2: cold baths are a really good stress inoculation tool. What
[17:37] Speaker 2: I mean by that is when you're putting yourself in
[17:40] Speaker 2: a stressful situation, but you're challenging yourself and you know
[17:44] Speaker 2: that it's a safe situation, but it actually increases your
[17:47] Speaker 2: resilience to future stresses. So let's say you have someone
[17:51] Speaker 2: who's in the army, then a great way to build
[17:54] Speaker 2: up their resilience to future stress is to put them
[17:56] Speaker 2: in a stressful situation that they can control, like being
[18:00] Speaker 2: in a really cold water bath, right, a cold pool
[18:02] Speaker 2: or whatever it might be, and then getting them to
[18:05] Speaker 2: calm down and to think and to just maybe go
[18:10] Speaker 2: through processes in their head that they need to learn
[18:12] Speaker 2: or deal with. And by doing that in a controlled situation,
[18:17] Speaker 2: it basically prepares you to deal with future stresses. I
[18:22] Speaker 2: think one of the other, and in fact, I probably
[18:24] Speaker 2: should have mentioned this first. One of the most powerful
[18:26] Speaker 2: things that we can do other than exercise is socializing.
[18:30] Speaker 2: So when we're socializing with people that we like, then
[18:34] Speaker 2: we have a few things happening, and one of those
[18:35] Speaker 2: things is the release of oxytocin. It's even better if
[18:39] Speaker 2: if you contact, if you hug the person or you
[18:41] Speaker 2: have physical contact, is better, but that has to be consensual,
[18:45] Speaker 2: of course. But what that does is higher levels of
[18:49] Speaker 2: oxytocin will have this feedback loop and will reduce that
[18:52] Speaker 2: stress wolmone cortisol. So that's why hanging around people that
[18:56] Speaker 2: you like, you feel better, you feel less stressed, and
[18:59] Speaker 2: that's not just a coincidence, that's your body's actual body's
[19:02] Speaker 2: response to that, and it's lowering those stress hormones.
[19:06] Speaker 1: How does alcohol and drugs fit into this whole story?
[19:09] Speaker 1: Because you know, feeling a bit stressed, particularly when you know,
[19:14] Speaker 1: I go back thirty years ago when I was working
[19:16] Speaker 1: in banking and some of that for a bit stress
[19:19] Speaker 1: the scale with the boys have a few drinks, We
[19:22] Speaker 1: need a drink, And of course I was much younger though,
[19:26] Speaker 1: but I don't know whether that actually helped me deal
[19:29] Speaker 1: with my stress and then underneathetized me and put me
[19:32] Speaker 1: to sleep. And probably if there was drugs around in
[19:34] Speaker 1: those days, I would have done it anyway as well.
[19:36] Speaker 1: So how do those things work in with stress management?
[19:39] Speaker 1: And also how does that whole alcohol thing fit into
[19:43] Speaker 1: the longevity game relative to stress.
[19:45] Speaker 2: Well, alcohol fundamentally is a neurotoxin, and we know now
[19:50] Speaker 2: that even for the brain, for the brain, yeah, and
[19:54] Speaker 2: we know that even just one drink a week is
[19:57] Speaker 2: actually going to cause a bit of shrinkage in your brain.
[19:59] Speaker 2: So I think the Australian guidelines is ten drinks a
[20:02] Speaker 2: week a week are okay, and that you know, but
[20:07] Speaker 2: it still has profound effects on your brain. So actually
[20:09] Speaker 2: no amount of alcohol is safe as we know now,
[20:12] Speaker 2: which is which is worrying because it's such a part
[20:15] Speaker 2: of our culture, right because you're.
[20:17] Speaker 1: Talked about socializing a lot of times socializing is around
[20:20] Speaker 1: a bit a drink, that's right.
[20:22] Speaker 2: So I guess that's why maybe you know, one drink
[20:25] Speaker 2: can be a bit of a social lubricant and that
[20:27] Speaker 2: can have that beneficial effect in terms of it's allowing
[20:30] Speaker 2: you to talk about things and allowing you to connect
[20:32] Speaker 2: with people. So I mean moderation would be key. But ultimately,
[20:39] Speaker 2: if you're drinking, it's going to also affect your sleep,
[20:42] Speaker 2: and that's something that is already impaired when you're stressed.
[20:45] Speaker 2: So when you one of the things that wakes you
[20:47] Speaker 2: up in the morning is a surge in cortisol, So
[20:50] Speaker 2: it causes us to be awake and a lersh. Right,
[20:53] Speaker 2: But if you go to bed with high levels of cortisol,
[20:55] Speaker 2: it's going to be hard number one, to get to sleep,
[20:58] Speaker 2: and also you'll wake up multiple times throughout the night.
[21:01] Speaker 2: Potentially as well, alcohol will do the same thing, so
[21:04] Speaker 2: it will cause you to wake up multiple times and
[21:06] Speaker 2: you won't be refreshed. You won't have that same refreshing sleep.
[21:11] Speaker 2: So I think that's why we often lean to things
[21:15] Speaker 2: like alcohol to help us de stress, because it allows
[21:19] Speaker 2: us to socialize.
[21:21] Speaker 1: It also, I guess, forget, it allows us to get.
[21:24] Speaker 2: To briefly, but ultimately it's not an adaptive thing.
[21:28] Speaker 1: So you're talking about we'll come back a little bit
[21:32] Speaker 1: more and talk about exercise and stress in the moment,
[21:34] Speaker 1: but you know the three big factors for living along.
[21:38] Speaker 1: There's lots of big factors, but three of the big
[21:40] Speaker 1: factors are living a long time. Is your sleep strategy,
[21:43] Speaker 1: your nutrition strategy, and your exercise strategy. And it's not
[21:47] Speaker 1: necessarily about what you're doing. Is also what you're not
[21:49] Speaker 1: doing or what you shouldn't do. But let's just talk
[21:52] Speaker 1: about stress and sleep because I know if I don't
[21:56] Speaker 1: sleep enough, probably so enough, I have a crappy night's
[21:58] Speaker 1: sleep like you did last night, I find my ability
[22:03] Speaker 1: to manage the way I feel for the day. Let's
[22:08] Speaker 1: call it using the word but much more stressful. Yeah,
[22:12] Speaker 1: so like, yeah, so I and I've sort of worked
[22:16] Speaker 1: out how many hours is? You know, my sweet spot?
[22:20] Speaker 1: What I mean by hours is how many hours of
[22:22] Speaker 1: actual sleep as opposed to how many hours I might be
[22:25] Speaker 1: laying in bed and what type of sleep I need
[22:28] Speaker 1: to get, like you know the ram blah blah blah,
[22:32] Speaker 1: and I use a whoop I monitor everything. But how
[22:38] Speaker 1: how does let's say, have a stressful day to day,
[22:42] Speaker 1: how do you what should I be doing to sort
[22:46] Speaker 1: of improve my sleep strategy for tonight.
[22:49] Speaker 2: Well, I guess you could use, for example, the physiological
[22:52] Speaker 2: site to help you get to sleep in the first place,
[22:55] Speaker 2: to run. Sorry, do you mean go for run? No,
[22:58] Speaker 2: as in, just use the breathing technique breeding to help
[23:01] Speaker 2: switch off that stress response.
[23:02] Speaker 1: But a bit, it's funny, litter when you say that.
[23:05] Speaker 1: I tried it last night, and as soon as I
[23:08] Speaker 1: woke up, I started thinking about stuff that I had
[23:10] Speaker 1: to get disordered, and I tried the breathing but I
[23:13] Speaker 1: couldn't do I couldn't do it the way I normally
[23:17] Speaker 1: do it when I'm more relaxed. It's funny because I
[23:20] Speaker 1: was stressed. I felt like I couldn't do it properly.
[23:22] Speaker 1: It's weird, like it was like a double banger for me,
[23:25] Speaker 1: like I could I just just I couldn't do it
[23:27] Speaker 1: and normally do And in the end, and turned the
[23:31] Speaker 1: television on because I needed a distraction, and I turned
[23:35] Speaker 1: something really boring on television. It was some looping news.
[23:39] Speaker 1: It's just the same US just kept looping over and
[23:41] Speaker 1: after I heard it two or three times, I got
[23:43] Speaker 1: bored with it and I went back to sleep. But
[23:46] Speaker 1: how do people deal with stress relative to this? Because
[23:49] Speaker 1: I know, if you don't have a good sleep strategy
[23:50] Speaker 1: and if you're stressed and new ess for a long time.
[23:53] Speaker 1: My mother passed away from it a neurine disease which
[23:55] Speaker 1: was eighty six and the reason I don't know the reason,
[23:58] Speaker 1: but no knows the reason. But she didn't sleep ever,
[24:04] Speaker 1: like as far as long as I can remember, you know,
[24:06] Speaker 1: for forty years, I don't remember my mother having a
[24:09] Speaker 1: proper night sleep. And because she was really stressed out
[24:11] Speaker 1: about who knows what, I don't know. We didn't have
[24:14] Speaker 1: money problems. She was just anxious about stuff. Could have
[24:18] Speaker 1: gone back to a childhood guess. But and I reckon
[24:21] Speaker 1: that that wrecked her brain. Somehow, something didn't get sordid
[24:27] Speaker 1: in her brain overnight when we normally would do that
[24:29] Speaker 1: whilst we'd sleep. Why can you just give me an understanding.
[24:35] Speaker 1: The dynamis twin stress, anxiety and sleep strategy.
[24:40] Speaker 2: So when you haven't slept enough, let's say you've not
[24:44] Speaker 2: slept at all, what happens is that your brain doesn't
[24:47] Speaker 2: have a chance to reset. There's a few things that
[24:49] Speaker 2: are happening, so your emotional control gets reset when you sleep,
[24:53] Speaker 2: and if you don't sleep, you're amigdaala. The emotion part
[24:56] Speaker 2: of the brain would be about sixty percent more reactive,
[24:58] Speaker 2: so you'll be much more emotional and labile and more
[25:02] Speaker 2: likely to cry at things or be reactive to things
[25:05] Speaker 2: than you would be. So that's one thing, and I
[25:07] Speaker 2: guess we've also got to consider what it's doing to
[25:10] Speaker 2: your brain's ability to clean itself at night. So a
[25:14] Speaker 2: brain basically has this waste removal process that's mostly active
[25:18] Speaker 2: when we're sleeping. So if we're not sleeping, then that
[25:21] Speaker 2: waste that would normally be building up over the course
[25:23] Speaker 2: of the day, so just metabolic waste that it will
[25:27] Speaker 2: just build up in the brain, and if you don't sleep,
[25:29] Speaker 2: it'll stay there.
[25:30] Speaker 1: So that's why products of energy you've been thinking and
[25:33] Speaker 1: sell by products exactly.
[25:35] Speaker 2: So I mean, in the rest of our body, we
[25:37] Speaker 2: have this thing called the lymphatic system which will basically
[25:39] Speaker 2: wick away that waste and eventually you're tot it'll get
[25:44] Speaker 2: metabolized out. But in the brain it sits there until
[25:47] Speaker 2: it has a chance to get cleared out. And yeah,
[25:49] Speaker 2: most of that is happening as we're sleeping. So by
[25:51] Speaker 2: not sleeping, we're essentially setting us up for another day
[25:55] Speaker 2: of even worse ability to manage our stress response to things.
[26:00] Speaker 1: Here's certainly if let's say we go to sleep and
[26:04] Speaker 1: we are a bit stressed before we go to sleep,
[26:08] Speaker 1: does the stress continue on in our brain even though
[26:11] Speaker 1: we're unconscious or we think we're unconscious. We're asleep because
[26:15] Speaker 1: you because sometimes I feel like I'm sleeping very light.
[26:18] Speaker 1: I know I'm asleep, but I'm sort of not in
[26:21] Speaker 1: a deep sleep. I'm not in that restorative sleep, and
[26:25] Speaker 1: I think what you're talking about, tell me if I'm
[26:26] Speaker 1: right wrong, But the restorative sleep is asleep You want
[26:29] Speaker 1: me to have, yes, to clear all the crap out.
[26:31] Speaker 2: Yeah, But having that high level of cortisol at bedtime
[26:34] Speaker 2: ultimately means that your body is in a more alert state.
[26:38] Speaker 2: So it's going to be harder to have that normal
[26:41] Speaker 2: sleep architecture, you know, going in and out of deep
[26:44] Speaker 2: sleep sleep. Yeah, So you'll lose a bit of that architecture.
[26:48] Speaker 2: And also when you wake up, you'll start being stressed
[26:50] Speaker 2: again because you'll start thinking about the things that you
[26:52] Speaker 2: were thinking of when you went to sleep. So it
[26:55] Speaker 2: makes it cause it's kind of this almost like loop
[26:57] Speaker 2: of yeah, yeah.
[27:00] Speaker 1: It's sort of never ending. And because you get for
[27:05] Speaker 1: people who sort of suffer from this and I don't.
[27:07] Speaker 1: I mean, it's only very occasional happens to me these days.
[27:09] Speaker 1: Used happen when I was younger, but occasionally. But it's
[27:14] Speaker 1: a bit of a deadly sort of loop because the
[27:19] Speaker 1: first night is the one I just described, and if
[27:21] Speaker 1: it comes back the second night, it does become like
[27:23] Speaker 1: a habit. It's sort of like it's nearly like your
[27:27] Speaker 1: body says, well, Mark, from now on, I'm going to
[27:30] Speaker 1: give you this big hit of quarters old because I'm
[27:32] Speaker 1: going to get you think about the ship that has
[27:33] Speaker 1: been bothering you, and that big hit of quarters I'm
[27:37] Speaker 1: going to keep giving you every night now because I'm
[27:38] Speaker 1: now used to doing that. Is that a thing? Or
[27:42] Speaker 1: am I just imagining this stuff?
[27:44] Speaker 2: Well, no, it's not. A brain really wants to work
[27:48] Speaker 2: on patterns. So anything you do repeatedly, your body will
[27:53] Speaker 2: essentially become entrained to doing that, whether you're aware of
[27:56] Speaker 2: it or not. So if you get yourself into a
[27:58] Speaker 2: loop of doing that, then it just becomes your body's
[28:02] Speaker 2: baseline response. The brain's always trying to find shortcuts for things.
[28:05] Speaker 1: So efficiency is efient.
[28:08] Speaker 2: It's all about efficiency. And so I if there's anything
[28:11] Speaker 2: that you do on a repeated basis, your body is
[28:14] Speaker 2: just going to start to do that automatically.
[28:16] Speaker 1: So you've got to try and do things on a
[28:17] Speaker 1: repeated basis that are good for you.
[28:19] Speaker 2: Yes, and you've got to try and break the cycle
[28:21] Speaker 2: if you don't.
[28:21] Speaker 1: Yeah, So breaking cycle is what does that mean that?
[28:26] Speaker 2: I mean one thing, some people like to look for supplements.
[28:30] Speaker 2: For example, one thing is ashwaganda. Ashwaganda will reduce your quartsol,
[28:35] Speaker 2: So that might be something that you could try having
[28:38] Speaker 2: before bed to help you get to sleep. And it's
[28:44] Speaker 2: not that I really like to advocate for medical interventions
[28:48] Speaker 2: if you can try and do behavioral stuff, but ultimately
[28:51] Speaker 2: that can be a powerful tool if you feel like
[28:53] Speaker 2: you don't have control over the other things in your life,
[28:55] Speaker 2: So that might be something that you might lean to.
[28:57] Speaker 2: But the thing is, if you're taking a it's reducing
[29:01] Speaker 2: your cortizole, but it also has spin off effects on
[29:04] Speaker 2: your other hormones because cortisole gets made into your sex steroids.
[29:08] Speaker 2: For example, things like testosterone and estrogens right, so if
[29:12] Speaker 2: you skew one, the other ones get skewed. So you
[29:14] Speaker 2: don't want to be taking ashwagunda for long periods of time,
[29:17] Speaker 2: maybe a couple of weeks, cycle it on and off.
[29:19] Speaker 2: And maybe if there's a stressful time in your life,
[29:22] Speaker 2: you're working towards a deadline, for example, then ultimately that
[29:25] Speaker 2: is going to be some might be a time where
[29:27] Speaker 2: you'd really want to try and tackle it with all
[29:30] Speaker 2: the different options.
[29:31] Speaker 1: So it's interesting how the the thermidomain dynamics work. You know,
[29:35] Speaker 1: for every action there's an ego opposite reaction or is
[29:37] Speaker 1: that Newton's the third law or whatever something like that.
[29:39] Speaker 1: But you know you're right, you obviously you're right. But
[29:43] Speaker 1: when I think about it, you're right because you think
[29:46] Speaker 1: you take something to assist in one thing, but it
[29:49] Speaker 1: will have another response in another way. And for example,
[29:53] Speaker 1: if your testosterone is low in a man and I
[29:58] Speaker 1: can't speak for woman, I don't know. I know this
[29:59] Speaker 1: from me, and is that it actually affects you sleep,
[30:01] Speaker 1: You don't sleep as well because test is an important
[30:06] Speaker 1: hormone for during that sleep period. And that's something I
[30:10] Speaker 1: learned more recently when I was just talking to a
[30:14] Speaker 1: urologist about this stuff and he mentioned that, and it
[30:18] Speaker 1: so supplements whilst they might give you a short term effect,
[30:24] Speaker 1: really I think what it's coming down to a little
[30:26] Speaker 1: is that you need, we need, all of us need
[30:29] Speaker 1: to do whenever anybody suffers from these things, we need
[30:31] Speaker 1: to have a cognitive understanding or actually not just say
[30:35] Speaker 1: this is stress, actually recognize the stress. And this sort
[30:38] Speaker 1: of takes us to this mindfulness, you know, mindfulness processes,
[30:41] Speaker 1: you know, like yoga and all those other things, meditation
[30:44] Speaker 1: generally that it's normal, it's just stress, and just observe
[30:49] Speaker 1: it and don't let it sort of get its claws
[30:53] Speaker 1: into you. And I know it's easy for me to say,
[30:55] Speaker 1: but you know that's that's sort of the program that
[30:59] Speaker 1: mindfulness try to bill for us.
[31:00] Speaker 2: Yeah, and actually that's a great point is that mindfulness
[31:03] Speaker 2: is also a fantastic tool for reducing stress. And in fact,
[31:06] Speaker 2: it can reduce, essentially rewire the brain from the negative
[31:12] Speaker 2: changes and it can put them back into the healthier
[31:16] Speaker 2: essentially brain architecture. So when you've been stressed for a
[31:19] Speaker 2: long period of time, chronic stress is what we'd like
[31:22] Speaker 2: to call it. So let's say, for a couple of
[31:24] Speaker 2: months consistently. Then we have these changes in the brain. So,
[31:28] Speaker 2: for example, the memory part of the brain, the hippocampus,
[31:31] Speaker 2: it starts to shrink, and so you have issues, Yes,
[31:34] Speaker 2: you have issues with learning and memory.
[31:37] Speaker 1: I'm going to ask you about this. So when you
[31:39] Speaker 1: say shrinks, is that because those cells that form the
[31:42] Speaker 1: hipper campus they're dying off or what is the right
[31:45] Speaker 1: of them made? Or we're not regenerating them?
[31:47] Speaker 2: What is it some of them are dying? Well, yeah,
[31:49] Speaker 2: so cortisol can actually cause some of those neurons.
[31:51] Speaker 1: To die and can you rebuild them back?
[31:53] Speaker 2: You can exercise one of the best things. Oh really, Yes,
[31:57] Speaker 2: exercise is really the solution to so many things. And
[32:00] Speaker 2: also meditation, so meditation can help reverse those changes. Meditation, yeah,
[32:05] Speaker 2: meditation and mindfulness. Also some of the other negative changes
[32:09] Speaker 2: in the brain are in the amignal. Love that this
[32:12] Speaker 2: essentially the panic center, the emotion center of the brain.
[32:15] Speaker 2: So the amignala will actually become bigger because it needs
[32:18] Speaker 2: to respond to this ongoing stress. Right, So it becomes
[32:21] Speaker 2: a little bit bigger, and you become more emotional, more reactive.
[32:26] Speaker 1: You know you so hyper sensitive, Yeah, hyper.
[32:28] Speaker 2: Sensitive and that's really You know, when someone's been experiencing
[32:32] Speaker 2: stress for a long period of time, they might seem
[32:35] Speaker 2: like they've changed. They might seem like they've become this angry,
[32:38] Speaker 2: irrational version of themselves.
[32:40] Speaker 1: But it's not their fault.
[32:41] Speaker 2: We need to remind ourselves that it's just their brain
[32:44] Speaker 2: trying to adapt to this difficult situation. It's not that
[32:47] Speaker 2: they've become a bad person. It's just that their brain
[32:49] Speaker 2: is trying to ape.
[32:50] Speaker 1: That's interesting is adaptations, because that's what our body does,
[32:53] Speaker 1: Like xises helps us build out adaptations. Good stresses help
[32:57] Speaker 1: us build good adaptations. You're just saying is bad stresses
[33:03] Speaker 1: will also build up let's call it bad adaptations in
[33:07] Speaker 1: the middlers. So the miggler, which is not very big,
[33:09] Speaker 1: actually is the middler is a Greek word for It's
[33:13] Speaker 1: the Greek word for.
[33:14] Speaker 2: I feel like I should know.
[33:15] Speaker 1: This is one of those nuts. It's almond, yes, armed,
[33:18] Speaker 1: that's yeah. And so it is it just shaped like
[33:23] Speaker 1: an armen, or it's small like an armen. It's shaped
[33:26] Speaker 1: like an arm it's bigger than an almen, a bit
[33:28] Speaker 1: smaller small. Wow.
[33:29] Speaker 2: It depends on the individual, but.
[33:31] Speaker 1: The hippocampus can reduce, which is where the memory is,
[33:35] Speaker 1: and then the megala can increase.
[33:38] Speaker 2: Yeah, and then the prefrontal cortex is front part of
[33:42] Speaker 2: the brain that's involved in everything that makes us our manager, yeah,
[33:46] Speaker 2: our personality, our attention, our decision making skills. That becomes
[33:51] Speaker 2: increasingly disconnected and it also thins a bit as well.
[33:55] Speaker 2: So that's why we have a hard time making decisions,
[33:58] Speaker 2: it's why our attention spanned, it's why we become more
[34:02] Speaker 2: selfish because we can't see other people's perspectives as clearly.
[34:06] Speaker 2: So when you've been chronically stressed, it makes sense that
[34:09] Speaker 2: you have bad memory, that you don't perform as well
[34:13] Speaker 2: at work or wherever you are. Your aggression might increase,
[34:18] Speaker 2: and it's just a natural response. But as we're talking
[34:21] Speaker 2: about meditation and mindfulness, a moment ago that can reverse
[34:24] Speaker 2: those changes. So a study showed that essentially thirteen minutes
[34:29] Speaker 2: a day over eight weeks can make that prefrontal cortex
[34:32] Speaker 2: a bit thicker and make that immedilla reduce in size.
[34:36] Speaker 1: So what are we talking about that in terms of meditation? Worldway,
[34:39] Speaker 1: So that's a word. It means lots of things, lots
[34:41] Speaker 1: of people. I guess, what do you mean like, do
[34:43] Speaker 1: you mean singing O or what are we talking about it?
[34:47] Speaker 1: What are we talking about here?
[34:48] Speaker 2: Well, meditation and mindfulness takes lots of different forms, but
[34:53] Speaker 2: I guess we can think of it as a way
[34:55] Speaker 2: of focusing on yourself, your internal state. You might be
[35:00] Speaker 2: focusing on different body parts, you might be focusing on
[35:02] Speaker 2: your breathing. You're just focusing on what you're feeling inside
[35:06] Speaker 2: you at the time. At the time, it might be
[35:08] Speaker 2: feeling the texture of the clothes on your skin. Just
[35:11] Speaker 2: taking yourself through that proce of actively observing your internal state.
[35:16] Speaker 1: So it doesn't necessarily mean therefore, if I can interpret
[35:19] Speaker 1: that as being like, at a particular time of day,
[35:23] Speaker 1: three o'clock every afternoon, that I'm going to sit down
[35:25] Speaker 1: and spend fifteen or thirteen minutes or something greater than
[35:28] Speaker 1: that doing this mindfulness or meditation. But is that one
[35:35] Speaker 1: interpretation or could it also mean that you know it
[35:38] Speaker 1: in the morning, when I sit and have my cup
[35:40] Speaker 1: of coffee, I'm actually going to spend some time tasting it,
[35:44] Speaker 1: smelling it, feeling it, as opposed to just throwing it.
[35:46] Speaker 1: D becles I need the caffeine.
[35:49] Speaker 2: I mean, So the studies haven't been on that way
[35:53] Speaker 2: of mindfulness or meditation, but we could think of it
[35:56] Speaker 2: as the same thing. You're focusing on something in the moment,
[35:59] Speaker 2: that is that is not the problem. You're thinking about
[36:03] Speaker 2: enjoying that coffee. I think that's a great example of
[36:05] Speaker 2: how we can implement it in our daily lives without
[36:08] Speaker 2: being too overly prescriptive about things.
[36:10] Speaker 1: Because it's funny when when my dad was the most
[36:12] Speaker 1: chill person in the world and when he used to
[36:15] Speaker 1: eat food and my son's all we will laugh at
[36:18] Speaker 1: this still today as he passed away, but were used
[36:20] Speaker 1: to think about this because he lived a lot longer
[36:21] Speaker 1: than my mum and dad. My dad was late ninety
[36:24] Speaker 1: and when he ate food because he is a migrant
[36:30] Speaker 1: and he didn't have a lot of food when he
[36:32] Speaker 1: was a kid. But when he ate food, he used
[36:34] Speaker 1: to really think about it and taste it, and he
[36:38] Speaker 1: used to actually pull a face about how beautiful something tasted.
[36:42] Speaker 1: He could actually and when I end up producing whiskey
[36:45] Speaker 1: business because I used to love the way my dad
[36:47] Speaker 1: used to put a bit of whisky in his mouth
[36:49] Speaker 1: and he wouldn't drink much, he'd just have one nip.
[36:51] Speaker 1: But that one nip was everything was like a complete
[36:54] Speaker 1: thing for me. He could he didn't know how to articulated,
[36:57] Speaker 1: but I know he could smell it. I know he
[36:59] Speaker 1: could taste it. I know he could get the after taste.
[37:02] Speaker 1: And I used to wonder why I'm a dad was
[37:04] Speaker 1: such a chilled out, cool dude, And I often wonder
[37:07] Speaker 1: whether it was because he had this practice great gratitude,
[37:14] Speaker 1: unbelievably happy that he just had the opportunity to do
[37:17] Speaker 1: this because he didn't have when he was a kid.
[37:21] Speaker 1: But it was a practice all the time. In the morning,
[37:24] Speaker 1: I have a cup of tea and he would have
[37:26] Speaker 1: a biscuit whatever he's having with it, and you would
[37:28] Speaker 1: see him just tasting the sandwich or the biscuit or
[37:30] Speaker 1: whatever it was. Whereas me and my son, so of course,
[37:34] Speaker 1: we were always in a hurry to get to the
[37:36] Speaker 1: next thing. So we're throwing everything down in a second
[37:39] Speaker 1: and trying to get to the next event. And I
[37:42] Speaker 1: guess that's a form of mindfulness in some respects.
[37:44] Speaker 2: And there's a few things at play there. There's gratitude,
[37:47] Speaker 2: there's mindfulness, and there's also this sense of time affluence.
[37:50] Speaker 2: So he was sitting there enjoying the moment not worrying
[37:53] Speaker 2: about rushing off to the next thing. And I think
[37:55] Speaker 2: in today's society we are so busy, we're running from
[37:59] Speaker 2: one thing to the next, and we feel like we
[38:01] Speaker 2: have no control over our own time. And not having
[38:03] Speaker 2: control over our own time is a stressor. So trying
[38:07] Speaker 2: to build in those moments of mindfulness or just enjoying
[38:12] Speaker 2: time without thinking about what you need to do next
[38:15] Speaker 2: has a powerful effect on how our body responds.
[38:18] Speaker 1: You're one of the superstars of STEM, aren't you? Yes? Yes,
[38:21] Speaker 1: And that's a great accolade to be one of those
[38:23] Speaker 1: people to be selected to be one of the superstars
[38:26] Speaker 1: of STEM, and STEM being for the audiences as science, Technology, engineering,
[38:30] Speaker 1: and mass wow. And in that process, you know you're
[38:40] Speaker 1: one of the members of the twenty thirty members or something.
[38:43] Speaker 1: I can't remember how many there.
[38:44] Speaker 2: Is, but fifty every two years.
[38:46] Speaker 1: Fifty every years, Okay, none but there And you'll come
[38:48] Speaker 1: from different disciplines, but you would be well aware, as
[38:53] Speaker 1: everyone in that discipline would be. Is this whole new
[38:56] Speaker 1: push towards us living better longer, probably through health technology,
[39:03] Speaker 1: but probably more importantly better or optimization. As a neuroscientist,
[39:11] Speaker 1: what are the things that one of the things that
[39:15] Speaker 1: could kill us is brain disease. Of course, what are
[39:17] Speaker 1: the things we should be trying to do to make
[39:20] Speaker 1: sure we don't. Let's leave all those other diseases, which
[39:22] Speaker 1: is not your of expertise, but let's look at the brain.
[39:25] Speaker 1: What are some of the things that you think we
[39:26] Speaker 1: should be doing in order to optimize our ability to
[39:29] Speaker 1: take advantage of this new thing called longevity, especially around
[39:33] Speaker 1: things like brain diseases, those things. In other words, how
[39:37] Speaker 1: do we you know, the four big killers metabolic disease
[39:42] Speaker 1: in this order, actually in this actual order's heart, which
[39:44] Speaker 1: is cardiac arrest, heart attack, cancer of any type, where
[39:50] Speaker 1: it could be skin or wherever it is. Brain diseases
[39:53] Speaker 1: like mont of your disease, Parkins's, all those other things, dementia,
[39:57] Speaker 1: Alzheimer's and all the other things to go with as
[40:01] Speaker 1: many of them, and then finally, I already said metabolic disease.
[40:04] Speaker 1: They're the four. But of those four, one of the
[40:07] Speaker 1: ones that's really important is from your point of view,
[40:09] Speaker 1: and why I like to in view as brain diseases
[40:13] Speaker 1: and is the third biggest killer on the planet. What
[40:18] Speaker 1: do you think of in relation to how do I
[40:21] Speaker 1: preserve my brain.
[40:23] Speaker 2: Our body has all the solutions, we just need to
[40:26] Speaker 2: know how to treat it the right way. And I
[40:28] Speaker 2: think a lot of the things that are affecting our
[40:32] Speaker 2: brain health through age is really the fact that we've
[40:35] Speaker 2: moved so far away from the way our bodies were
[40:38] Speaker 2: designed to function. You know, we are a social species.
[40:41] Speaker 2: We are meant to be hanging out together and socializing,
[40:44] Speaker 2: having community. We are meant to be helping one another.
[40:47] Speaker 2: I think it's really interesting that so many of these
[40:51] Speaker 2: religious scriptures will say, you know, help thy neighbor. Have
[40:55] Speaker 2: some sort of sentiment to that. We know that when
[40:57] Speaker 2: you're doing that, you have these positive effects on your
[41:00] Speaker 2: own physiology and on your brain health. It's releasing things
[41:04] Speaker 2: that make you Your reward pathways are activated, which makes
[41:07] Speaker 2: you feel better, improves your mood, other things, like you know,
[41:13] Speaker 2: giving to people. Giving to people is also going to
[41:16] Speaker 2: have that similar beneficial effect. We call it pro social
[41:19] Speaker 2: behaviors in psychology and neuroscience. So doing things for one
[41:22] Speaker 2: another is a really beneficial thing for us. We also
[41:26] Speaker 2: have moved so far away from acknowledging one another. When
[41:29] Speaker 2: you know, when you walk down the street, you know,
[41:31] Speaker 2: for example, here in Sydney. People don't make eye contact,
[41:35] Speaker 2: but we should. You know, saying hi makes a tangible
[41:38] Speaker 2: difference on our sense of community. And when we feel
[41:40] Speaker 2: connected to one another, then our brain health improves and
[41:44] Speaker 2: our mood improves.
[41:45] Speaker 1: Do you think we're moving away from that as a society.
[41:47] Speaker 2: Yeah, we look at our phones all the time. Everything
[41:49] Speaker 2: is like in a digital platform.
[41:52] Speaker 1: But is there any benefit in that, for example, like
[41:54] Speaker 1: no benefit in us connecting with community in a digital sense?
[41:58] Speaker 1: I mean, is that actual connection or is it more
[42:01] Speaker 1: like you said before, like it's more about touch or
[42:05] Speaker 1: been close to touch because what's on here is doesn't
[42:08] Speaker 1: sort of get me, but like some kids live off
[42:10] Speaker 1: these things. Yeah.
[42:11] Speaker 2: Look, if you think about social connection with people face
[42:15] Speaker 2: to face, and we think of that as like being
[42:16] Speaker 2: a full delicious meal, then talking to someone online is
[42:20] Speaker 2: like having a lolly a mars ba. Yeah, and it's
[42:22] Speaker 2: it doesn't have that same suite of effects on our brain.
[42:25] Speaker 2: When you're hanging out with people, your brains actually start
[42:28] Speaker 2: to synchronize. I also think that was the wildest thing.
[42:31] Speaker 2: But now we know that our brain's actually synchronized with
[42:34] Speaker 2: each other with each other, and that's why you have
[42:36] Speaker 2: this incredible experience. When you're like at a concert with
[42:39] Speaker 2: lots of people, there's something that is happening that is
[42:42] Speaker 2: connecting and I guess putting our brains in synchrony.
[42:45] Speaker 1: That that's very interesting. Synchrony. That's that's very interesting because
[42:49] Speaker 1: especially with music as well, if it's music, because music
[42:52] Speaker 1: sort of I know what happens, especially with classical music.
[42:55] Speaker 1: In my case, at least, music sort of builds a
[42:58] Speaker 1: rhythm in my brain. Yes, my brain says to fall
[43:01] Speaker 1: into the musical rhythm as well. Yeah, I can feel
[43:04] Speaker 1: the notes.
[43:04] Speaker 2: Yeah. Music has incredibly powerful effects on the brain. In fact,
[43:09] Speaker 2: if you look at people with dementia, so dementia being
[43:13] Speaker 2: a neurodegenerat caused by neurodegenerative diseases, and ultimately parts of
[43:18] Speaker 2: your brain start dying, and over time people will lose
[43:21] Speaker 2: the ability to talk and to swallow, just to function as.
[43:26] Speaker 1: I saw it happens.
[43:28] Speaker 2: And if you listen to music from your past. So
[43:32] Speaker 2: let's say there's a person with dementia that really liked
[43:34] Speaker 2: a certain song in their childhood. If you play that
[43:36] Speaker 2: music to them, they had this transient ability to reactivate
[43:40] Speaker 2: these networks in the brain and they might even be
[43:42] Speaker 2: able to stand up or start talking or communicate, when
[43:48] Speaker 2: just two minutes previously they couldn't do any of those things.
[43:51] Speaker 1: It's funny, you know. I went to it just thinking
[43:54] Speaker 1: that letting you sorry, interrupt you. But I went to
[43:57] Speaker 1: a concert. There's a kid I know who's mildly autistic
[44:03] Speaker 1: but very bright and high functioning. And I asked him
[44:06] Speaker 1: what he would like for his birthday, and he asked
[44:08] Speaker 1: me if I could take him to this interpretation of
[44:14] Speaker 1: Vivaldi at the Opera House. But it was a violin
[44:18] Speaker 1: The guy was a violinist who had an interpretation of
[44:21] Speaker 1: Vivaldi's Four Seasons. And I took him to it, and
[44:25] Speaker 1: during the he was quite young, in twelve or something.
[44:28] Speaker 1: But during the concert he sat down, obviously seeing but
[44:33] Speaker 1: he put his head down like where his knees were,
[44:35] Speaker 1: and I said to him, mate, sit up. No, no, so
[44:39] Speaker 1: I just let him stay there. He pretty much stayed
[44:41] Speaker 1: that position for most of the concert, and at the
[44:43] Speaker 1: end of it he sat up and it was all
[44:45] Speaker 1: over and everybody's leaving, and I said to him, why
[44:49] Speaker 1: did you do that? Like I'm used to him doing
[44:52] Speaker 1: unusual things, I said, why did you do that? He said.
[44:55] Speaker 1: I said, you know, you're here to listen to the music,
[44:57] Speaker 1: and he said, no, I'm here to feel the music.
[45:01] Speaker 1: And this kid's very bright, like he can he was.
[45:06] Speaker 1: He was actually more tapped into the music the violinist
[45:11] Speaker 1: than say I was. And I love violinists, my favorite instrument.
[45:14] Speaker 1: But by looking at it, and I was looking at
[45:19] Speaker 1: everything but the violence I was watching, I was more
[45:21] Speaker 1: interested in what the violinist was doing, like in a
[45:23] Speaker 1: visual sense. I was listening to it, of course, but
[45:26] Speaker 1: this kid only wanted to just feel it. The vibration
[45:29] Speaker 1: of music is vibration, and and it's quite interesting, like
[45:33] Speaker 1: it obviously got into his brain somehow, and and the
[45:38] Speaker 1: way he thinks a different way, I think, because you
[45:40] Speaker 1: know he's a neurodivergent and and and clearly music and
[45:49] Speaker 1: he was very happy. It was he was so happy
[45:51] Speaker 1: about it. And it was like he knew that that's
[45:54] Speaker 1: what he wanted to do. By me inviting him or
[45:56] Speaker 1: paying for the tickets to get him to this to
[45:58] Speaker 1: this event, he wanted to feel it the whole time. Now,
[46:04] Speaker 1: is music, for example, something that we should be doing
[46:08] Speaker 1: more of or participating more in relation to our brain health?
[46:12] Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, music is incredibly powerful for our brains,
[46:17] Speaker 2: especially learning a new instrument. So when you're learning a
[46:20] Speaker 2: new instrument or learning how to play any kind of
[46:23] Speaker 2: song or sing a song, you're really trying to coordinate
[46:27] Speaker 2: different parts of your brain, both hemispheres in different ways.
[46:31] Speaker 2: And the more you do that, the more connectivity you
[46:33] Speaker 2: have between the two hemispheres. So there's this thing that
[46:36] Speaker 2: connects the two hemispheres called the corpus colosum, and really
[46:40] Speaker 2: the bigger corpus colosum, potentially the more flexible you might
[46:43] Speaker 2: be and being able to problem solve. So being able
[46:47] Speaker 2: to do that is a very powerful thing for that reason.
[46:50] Speaker 2: But also it helps build up a thing called cognitive reserve.
[46:53] Speaker 2: So we can think of cognitive reserve as being a
[46:55] Speaker 2: bit like you know, having an extra battery and the
[46:59] Speaker 2: pa back when in terms of your brain's ability to
[47:02] Speaker 2: withstand damage over time. So as we age, you know,
[47:07] Speaker 2: after about age forty, our brain shrinks by about five percent.
[47:10] Speaker 1: No, don't say it to me, I'm just doing a calculation.
[47:16] Speaker 2: But ultimately wh.
[47:17] Speaker 1: I was showing by one hundred and fifty percent.
[47:20] Speaker 2: Per decade. So but ultimately by doing things like that,
[47:23] Speaker 2: we are building up our resilience, so that way you
[47:26] Speaker 2: can actually withstand more of that shrinkage before you might
[47:30] Speaker 2: notice symptoms, before you might notice that you're not thinking
[47:33] Speaker 2: as clearly. For example, so.
[47:35] Speaker 1: And just on I mean often I read stuff about
[47:38] Speaker 1: you know, various people say things, especially the more celebrated
[47:42] Speaker 1: American doctors and or you know, scientists. And let's take
[47:50] Speaker 1: for example, Andrew Hutman, and he keeps talking about this
[47:54] Speaker 1: time of day both morning and evening, to set your
[47:58] Speaker 1: circadian rhythms up. You know, it depends which time of
[48:03] Speaker 1: year it is because it depends on where the sun
[48:05] Speaker 1: is relative to the Earth. I'm not going to say
[48:07] Speaker 1: sunrise sunset, because sun never rises or sets them in
[48:10] Speaker 1: the Earth. It doesn't make sense me. So, but where
[48:13] Speaker 1: the sun is relative the earth in relation to near
[48:16] Speaker 1: infra red rays that come from the sun, and as
[48:19] Speaker 1: the way your eyes can receive those, and eyes being
[48:23] Speaker 1: part of your nervous system because that's one of your
[48:26] Speaker 1: first senses, how important, well, how much weight should we
[48:30] Speaker 1: be putting in this setting your circadian rhythms and all
[48:34] Speaker 1: the chemistry that follows from that relative to sunlight. And
[48:38] Speaker 1: I'm not suggesting people stare at the sun. But you know,
[48:42] Speaker 1: looking towards the sun out a certain time of day,
[48:44] Speaker 1: I think it's when it's at that's my memory recalls
[48:47] Speaker 1: seven hundred nanometers. So when this when sun the infrared
[48:52] Speaker 1: raiser at seven hundred animeters, which is a certain time
[48:54] Speaker 1: of day, you can actually put it into AI and
[48:56] Speaker 1: ask at what time of day is at a certain
[48:58] Speaker 1: time you it will tell you how much weight should
[49:01] Speaker 1: we be putting in this sunlight therapy call it.
[49:04] Speaker 2: I think it's very important because as I mentioned before,
[49:07] Speaker 2: our bodies are incredible pattern generators, and our c cater
[49:11] Speaker 2: rhythm doesn't just set our ability to wake up and
[49:15] Speaker 2: fall asleep at the right time, but every single cell
[49:18] Speaker 2: in our body is in trained to these little clocks.
[49:21] Speaker 2: These it's got its own body clock. Essentially, it's amazing.
[49:24] Speaker 2: So by not in training our circadian rhythm through things
[49:27] Speaker 2: like light, then those other systems get a little bit
[49:31] Speaker 2: out of whack, and that has consequences for how our
[49:34] Speaker 2: body functions.
[49:36] Speaker 1: The problem is there a society today, And we'll finish
[49:39] Speaker 1: ups because I'm very quite conscious of your time today
[49:42] Speaker 1: and I appreciate you giving us this time. The problem
[49:46] Speaker 1: is in society today in the winter In my case,
[49:50] Speaker 1: I've left home when it's dark, and I get home
[49:52] Speaker 1: when it's dark. When I'm in my car, I'm in
[49:54] Speaker 1: my office when the sun comes up in the winter,
[49:56] Speaker 1: and I'm in the sun in my office when the
[49:58] Speaker 1: sun goes down the winter. So it's pretty hard to
[50:01] Speaker 1: get that sort of stuff done. And I often wonder
[50:04] Speaker 1: to myself, am I missing how something really important that
[50:07] Speaker 1: he keeps talking about? Because him, I have some respect
[50:09] Speaker 1: for the guy, and obviously he sounds like he knows
[50:11] Speaker 1: what he's talking about. To me, at least, I'm not
[50:13] Speaker 1: a scientist. I'm a citizen scientist. I'm not a proper scientist.
[50:16] Speaker 1: So how much do you put a lot of weight
[50:20] Speaker 1: on that stuff? That?
[50:21] Speaker 2: Yeah, sunlight, yes, and routine in other ways. So it's
[50:25] Speaker 2: not just sunlight, but it's also when you have your
[50:28] Speaker 2: meals that also helps to entrain your not just your
[50:32] Speaker 2: circadian rhythms, but our homeostatic rhythms as well. That both
[50:35] Speaker 2: of those two.
[50:36] Speaker 1: Me not having too late before we go to bed.
[50:38] Speaker 1: Is that what you talk about?
[50:38] Speaker 2: Whatever, it is, just keeping the routine.
[50:40] Speaker 1: Keeping it set your body like your body knows to
[50:44] Speaker 1: expect to get This.
[50:45] Speaker 2: Is lunchtime, This is dinner time, this is breakfast, if
[50:48] Speaker 2: you have breakfast. Having those things at a routine also
[50:52] Speaker 2: helps to entrain that circadian rhythm.
[50:54] Speaker 1: Yeah, because I often wonder about and maybe you just
[50:58] Speaker 1: quickly explain the circadian rhythm to it, because as I
[51:00] Speaker 1: understand it, when you get exposed to the sunlight at
[51:05] Speaker 1: the right wavelength, your body actually releases cortisol in the
[51:11] Speaker 1: morning I'm talking about.
[51:12] Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, the cortsole release really happens before we wake up.
[51:16] Speaker 2: It's one of the things that makes us wake up
[51:17] Speaker 2: in the running. But certainly I think part of that
[51:20] Speaker 2: is sustained by then seeing sunlight as well.
[51:23] Speaker 1: And so our body is obviously really sensitive to a
[51:26] Speaker 1: whole lot of things, and to some extent, our society
[51:28] Speaker 1: the way we live our lives these days, we've robbed
[51:29] Speaker 1: ourselves of our best chances of living a longer, better life,
[51:34] Speaker 1: and we expose ourselves nearly mindlessly to stresses. And we
[51:40] Speaker 1: are mindless in that. But I mean by mindless, we're
[51:43] Speaker 1: not actually aware of the effects that these things are
[51:46] Speaker 1: having on us. And I guess if you don't have
[51:49] Speaker 1: a goal that I want to live to one hundred
[51:52] Speaker 1: or I want to live whatever beyond the average age
[51:56] Speaker 1: of Australa mail when this country is eighty one years
[51:58] Speaker 1: eighty one point two years. If we don't have a
[52:01] Speaker 1: goal to start with, we've got nothing to move back
[52:04] Speaker 1: from in order to work out how I should be
[52:06] Speaker 1: living my life today and in your case relative to
[52:09] Speaker 1: for example, how I look after my brain. And the
[52:12] Speaker 1: final question I want to ask you is about learning.
[52:16] Speaker 1: How important is continue learning? Because I said, rather than
[52:21] Speaker 1: being I got friends who have retired and that's all
[52:24] Speaker 1: they ever worked for it. They all ever talked about
[52:26] Speaker 1: as the day they were going to retire. And they
[52:29] Speaker 1: go play golf, which is great, and they do lots
[52:30] Speaker 1: of things, activities, gone on holidays, getting a caravan, go
[52:35] Speaker 1: around austrain and a lot sort of stuff. But it's
[52:38] Speaker 1: just doing. They're not learning. And how important is it
[52:41] Speaker 1: for us to continue to learn? And what is learning
[52:44] Speaker 1: for us to be able to keep our brain, you know,
[52:47] Speaker 1: fit like our bodies should be.
[52:49] Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's helping to build up our cognitive reserve. Again,
[52:53] Speaker 2: so when we're doing lots of interesting, varied things in
[52:56] Speaker 2: our lives, that's really building up that reserve, that battery
[53:00] Speaker 2: reserve that I was talking about. So when we're continuing
[53:04] Speaker 2: to learn new things, and it doesn't have to be
[53:05] Speaker 2: learning information. It could be learning a new skill. It
[53:08] Speaker 2: could be learning about, you know, the way the stock
[53:10] Speaker 2: markets are moving, or it could be learning about business
[53:12] Speaker 2: whatever it is, how to build a buy for your
[53:14] Speaker 2: grain kid exactly. So I think we need to not
[53:17] Speaker 2: be prescriptive about what learning is, just that it's taking
[53:21] Speaker 2: on a new skill or information in whatever way that
[53:24] Speaker 2: fits into your life. But there's a real importance to
[53:27] Speaker 2: continuing to do that. So whatever way we do that,
[53:30] Speaker 2: we are helping to protect our brain in the long term.
[53:33] Speaker 1: And that is that have a correlation to the fact that,
[53:35] Speaker 1: as you mentioned earlier, our brain cells sort of die
[53:38] Speaker 1: off over time, but we is this part of like
[53:41] Speaker 1: a regeneration process. So in other words, we're not net
[53:44] Speaker 1: deficit all the time, where maybe net net.
[53:46] Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, so there's a few things I guess to
[53:50] Speaker 2: mention there. So before I mentioned exercise helps you make
[53:53] Speaker 2: new brain cells, it actually mentioned that you did. I did, Yes,
[53:56] Speaker 2: So one of the things that helps those new brain
[53:59] Speaker 2: cells integral is learning. So it's all well and good
[54:02] Speaker 2: to make new brain cells, but if you're not using them,
[54:04] Speaker 2: if you're not learning new things, they just don't integrate in.
[54:07] Speaker 1: Them, so you've got to connect them.
[54:09] Speaker 2: So you've got to connect them. So by engaging with
[54:11] Speaker 2: interesting things or new novel things, then we're actually allowing
[54:14] Speaker 2: those new brain cells to integrate and therefore increase our resilience.
[54:19] Speaker 1: So it would it be there for fair to say,
[54:21] Speaker 1: as I conclude on this, if they'refore fair to say
[54:25] Speaker 1: that I'm developed. The exercise helping development me develop more
[54:28] Speaker 1: brain cells in all parts of my brain, but not
[54:31] Speaker 1: all parts of my brain doing the same thing. So therefore,
[54:34] Speaker 1: in terms of the connection part that part of my
[54:37] Speaker 1: brain which is responsible for helping me remember things, I
[54:41] Speaker 1: should try to remember more things. So I should exercise
[54:44] Speaker 1: memory more often those parts of my brain which require
[54:48] Speaker 1: maybe the profile and cortex what it is requires logic.
[54:52] Speaker 1: Maybe I should be doing more around the logic part
[54:55] Speaker 1: as well, and maybe less around the miggler.
[55:00] Speaker 2: You're not wrong, Yeah.
[55:01] Speaker 1: Is that what sort of a very fundamental I know
[55:05] Speaker 1: I'm being over simplistic and not being very scientific about it,
[55:07] Speaker 1: but not a is the audience? So is that sort of
[55:11] Speaker 1: what you're saying in a very simple way, Yeah, fill.
[55:15] Speaker 2: Your life with rich and exciting and interesting things whatever,
[55:18] Speaker 2: whatever that might be, that variety you're learning and that
[55:22] Speaker 2: is going to help ultimately improve your cognity reserve and
[55:27] Speaker 2: your ability to age well later into your later years.
[55:30] Speaker 1: And if you have seen anybody who is a model
[55:33] Speaker 1: for this that you've seen older people who are I mean,
[55:36] Speaker 1: can you hold up a model you have you seen
[55:38] Speaker 1: a person who you think this woman or this man
[55:42] Speaker 1: has lived a very rich life. They're not a professor
[55:46] Speaker 1: of anything. They're not They don't speak twenty languages, that
[55:49] Speaker 1: don't play five musical instruments. But they have a nice,
[55:52] Speaker 1: simple life, but nonetheless rich like you say, and have
[55:55] Speaker 1: meant to manage to live a good, long, long and
[55:59] Speaker 1: fruitful life.
[56:00] Speaker 2: Seen these individuals, Yeah, And I think there's actually there's
[56:02] Speaker 2: a lot of them in the media. So if you
[56:03] Speaker 2: think about it, their day is spent interviewing people and
[56:06] Speaker 2: learning new interesting things. And one that comes to mind
[56:09] Speaker 2: is the Australian National treasure Robin Williams. So he has
[56:14] Speaker 2: been doing the ABC Science for for fifty years now,
[56:17] Speaker 2: what in fifty fifty years running that show and his
[56:21] Speaker 2: ability to remember names for example, I'm not he's just
[56:26] Speaker 2: like the ability to do that through that cognitive flexibility
[56:29] Speaker 2: in his constant learning is just remarkable.
[56:33] Speaker 1: Yes, and you would say he's a fair age Yeah.
[56:37] Speaker 2: Yeah, Actually don't know his exact age. I feel like
[56:40] Speaker 2: I should.
[56:40] Speaker 1: Unless he's had longevity in that one job. Yeah, and
[56:43] Speaker 1: he's like, fifty year is a long time to be
[56:45] Speaker 1: doing the same game.
[56:46] Speaker 2: And he's been open about, you know, his battles with cancer.
[56:49] Speaker 2: He had a heart attack, he died for a brief moment.
[56:51] Speaker 2: Yet he is yeah, sharp as so. Yeah, he's living proof,
[56:57] Speaker 2: living proof.
[56:57] Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, doctor Lena, amazing conversation. I really enjoyed it.
[57:02] Speaker 1: I particularly enjoy the way you've sort of pulled apart
[57:06] Speaker 1: that whole stress conversation and what it does to us,
[57:09] Speaker 1: and by the way, where it's also beneficial and where
[57:12] Speaker 1: it can hurt us. And then I really enjoyed where
[57:14] Speaker 1: you start to talk about those tools we can use
[57:16] Speaker 1: to actually try and dumb it down a little bit
[57:19] Speaker 1: in order that we can get our sleep strategy right,
[57:21] Speaker 1: et cetera. Because, by the way, if're don't sleep properly,
[57:23] Speaker 1: you won't excise properly, that's right. Yeah, And if you
[57:25] Speaker 1: don't excise, probably what normally happens you eat a lot
[57:27] Speaker 1: of crap. When you expose, probably you tend to eat better.
[57:29] Speaker 1: I don't know what that deal is, but you do.
[57:31] Speaker 1: And all of a sudden you've got the whole three going.
[57:33] Speaker 1: And then finally community that's the most important part.
[57:35] Speaker 2: So you were mentioning about the four leading causes of death,
[57:38] Speaker 2: and we actually know that the six leading causes of
[57:40] Speaker 2: death are actually all linked to stress.
[57:43] Speaker 1: Wow.
[57:44] Speaker 2: And if we think about it, it makes a lot
[57:47] Speaker 2: of sense when we think about what stress is doing
[57:49] Speaker 2: to the body. Chronic stress is doing to the body.
[57:52] Speaker 2: So if you've been chronically stressed for a long period
[57:55] Speaker 2: of time, it's not just affecting your brain, it's affecting
[57:57] Speaker 2: your metabolism. Your body is your immune system becomes ramped
[58:01] Speaker 2: up and then it starts to fail over time as well. Yeah,
[58:06] Speaker 2: so of course there's going to be implications in your
[58:08] Speaker 2: cardiovascular health and your metabolic health, and it's not surprising
[58:12] Speaker 2: that it also it's all going to feed into these
[58:15] Speaker 2: different other causes of death mortality essentially. And there's another
[58:21] Speaker 2: thing there, another lever that's important to mention, and that's
[58:24] Speaker 2: our socioeconomic status or whether we are from a marginalized community.
[58:28] Speaker 2: So when you come from I guess a community that's disenfranchised.
[58:33] Speaker 2: You feel like you're powerless, you're worthless, and you think
[58:35] Speaker 2: that maybe more wealthy people are better than you. What
[58:40] Speaker 2: that does is it puts you in a state of
[58:42] Speaker 2: social threat, so you see everyone around you as being
[58:46] Speaker 2: more important and you don't have power over your future.
[58:50] Speaker 2: And what that does is it releases three times more
[58:53] Speaker 2: cortisol than regular stresses. So social threat is much more
[59:00] Speaker 2: potentially toxic than regular stress, and that has implications for
[59:06] Speaker 2: all sorts of things. So if you think about it
[59:09] Speaker 2: from that perspective, it's not surprising that people from marginalized
[59:14] Speaker 2: communities or from lower socioeconomic communities are more likely to
[59:19] Speaker 2: have metabolic disease, cardiovascular disease. They're more likely to have
[59:24] Speaker 2: violence and crime because it's changing their amig dealerence, making
[59:26] Speaker 2: them more reactive. It's not surprising that there might be
[59:29] Speaker 2: lower educational outcomes because it's affecting their memory center of
[59:33] Speaker 2: the brain. So I think we really need to be
[59:35] Speaker 2: mindful of that. It's not necessarily that wealthier or more
[59:39] Speaker 2: powerful people are doing better because they're inherently better or
[59:43] Speaker 2: can get better health care. It's actually that you know
[59:47] Speaker 2: they're fundamentally, their stress response is different to a more
[59:51] Speaker 2: marginalized population.
[59:52] Speaker 1: They're not suffering from the marginalization. That's right in the
[59:55] Speaker 1: first place.
[59:55] Speaker 2: Yeah, so I think we need to remember that societally. Societally, Yeah,
[1:00:00] Speaker 2: and i come from a low socio economic background and
[1:00:03] Speaker 2: I'm proud of the fact that I have come from that,
[1:00:07] Speaker 2: But also it's really important to know that that has
[1:00:10] Speaker 2: implications for how we respond to stress.
[1:00:13] Speaker 1: Do do you think that that background actually drive and
[1:00:18] Speaker 1: giving your knowledge about these things actually drives you to
[1:00:20] Speaker 1: become better?
[1:00:21] Speaker 2: It does, it does. Knowledge is power, and it's helped
[1:00:24] Speaker 2: me understand why I am the way I am, and
[1:00:26] Speaker 2: also it helps me understand and empathize with others as well.
[1:00:29] Speaker 2: So yeah, I'm grateful for that.
[1:00:31] Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you,

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