# NMN, Berberine, Resveratrol: The New Science of Living Longer

An episode of [Project 100 with Mark Bouris](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1767053714), 2 Feb 2026, 1 h 03 min.

Audio: https://p.podderapp.com/2544644999/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/2fb3740d-3436-44af-8cc0-a91900716aa5/05ac4e52-79fb-46b8-849c-b305000bd6d0/2b391eab-1755-49fd-b730-b3e5002fd2a3/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=ef13e652-7a19-41fd-9d0f-b305000bd6dc

In this episode, Mark sits down with Neal Mercado, Chief Science Officer at Melrose, one of Australia’s leading wellness brands. With a background in pharmaceutical sciences and more than 15 years in product formulation and clinical research, Neal brings rare insight into how supplements are actually developed, tested, regulated, and sometimes compromised. Neal most recently advised on the creation of FUTURELAB, a product range dedicated to the science of ageing well. Together, they unpack what works, what doesn’t, and what consumers need to know in an industry crowded with noise. This is a grounded conversation about longevity, metabolic health, and why scientific rigour matters more than ever. In this episode, we cover: • How supplement products are formulated and regulated • The real risks of adulteration and misleading labels • What a Chief Science Officer actually does • The science behind berberine and metabolic health • Why resveratrol remains controversial • The biggest challenges facing the supplement industry • How FUTURELAB approaches ageing well differently • The rise of personalised health and precision medicine • Where longevity science is heading next See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:00] Speaker 1: Nil Maikado. Welcome to PROJAC one hundred. Mate.
[0:02] Speaker 2: Thanks thanks so much. Mark.
[0:03] Speaker 1: Good time to be here actually because it started twenty
[0:05] Speaker 1: twenty six. And uh, you know Project one hundreds of
[0:08] Speaker 1: about longevity and you're the chief science officer at Melrose.
[0:12] Speaker 1: Now Melrose is not Melro's place as in la nineties. Yeah, Melrose,
[0:19] Speaker 1: or you explain what Melrose is. Melrose is a slam
[0:25] Speaker 1: dunk for us at Project one hundred in that it
[0:27] Speaker 1: is right in the middle of our sweet spot that
[0:29] Speaker 1: we talk about supplements, et cetera and health and longevity.
[0:32] Speaker 1: So maybe you give us a bit more explanation about Melroe.
[0:35] Speaker 2: So sure, Melrose has been around for many years, been
[0:40] Speaker 2: mainly focused around healthy pantry, so healthy foods, mct oils,
[0:45] Speaker 2: fish oils, vitamin C.
[0:48] Speaker 1: But recently.
[0:50] Speaker 2: We've really been focused on longevity and optimizing health span.
[0:55] Speaker 2: I joined Melrose about two and a half years ago
[0:58] Speaker 2: and during that time we completely reset our strategy and
[1:02] Speaker 2: refocused on in this new kind of emerging science and
[1:07] Speaker 2: it's just been such fun to kind of change the
[1:10] Speaker 2: way that this brand is considered by the Australian population.
[1:14] Speaker 1: So what does a chief science officer do?
[1:18] Speaker 2: It's a good question.
[1:19] Speaker 1: Is part of the C suite?
[1:21] Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, So my responsibility is in our R and
[1:25] Speaker 2: D research and development, all of our product development. I
[1:28] Speaker 2: have a team of food technologists and nutritionists and natural paths,
[1:33] Speaker 2: and I'm also responsible for regulatory affairs. So that's ensuring
[1:38] Speaker 2: that we're compliant with the regulations kind of guiding our
[1:41] Speaker 2: products that we sell.
[1:42] Speaker 1: Is I know it might be a little boring, but
[1:46] Speaker 1: it's sort of important because I think people need to
[1:48] Speaker 1: understand what that means and what's regulated, why it's regulated,
[1:54] Speaker 1: and who regulates it, what's the objective behind that, because
[1:57] Speaker 1: I'm going to I think some people think that anybody
[1:59] Speaker 1: can get up and make a supplement of any type.
[2:02] Speaker 1: Probably some people do do that, but the difference, maybe
[2:05] Speaker 1: the difference that you guys present is that maybe things
[2:10] Speaker 1: like contamination are more strictly adhed to. What are the
[2:14] Speaker 1: sort of things that would mean that as an advantage
[2:18] Speaker 1: dealing with someone who's regulated.
[2:19] Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I think I'm from the US originally,
[2:23] Speaker 2: so I'm very familiar with the US regulations of these
[2:26] Speaker 2: type of products, which are called dietary supplements there, and
[2:30] Speaker 2: having been able to see both the pathways compare and
[2:34] Speaker 2: contrast them. Australia is really the gold standard when it
[2:37] Speaker 2: comes to complementary medicines. For one, our products are actually
[2:43] Speaker 2: regulated as medicines in Australia, so they're called listed medicines.
[2:48] Speaker 2: So if you're looking at any product you pick up,
[2:51] Speaker 2: you want to see that a code called ost L
[2:54] Speaker 2: Australian Listed and there's a number behind that. And what
[2:57] Speaker 2: that does is it requires the company who's selling that
[3:01] Speaker 2: to do a number of things. Firstly, you have to
[3:06] Speaker 2: have proper raw material validation so that guards against adulteration.
[3:12] Speaker 2: You have to be able to identify exactly what it
[3:14] Speaker 2: is and test it.
[3:15] Speaker 1: So I might just not there for because that's a
[3:17] Speaker 1: really important point in adulteration. What you mean? I think
[3:21] Speaker 1: what you mean, sure, and is that if I'm an athlete,
[3:24] Speaker 1: for example, and I'm taking that particular supplement, whatever it
[3:27] Speaker 1: might be creating fragman say that there's nothing illegal in
[3:31] Speaker 1: that that when if I get drug tested, that I
[3:34] Speaker 1: got a drama. Is that what you mean by adulteration?
[3:36] Speaker 1: In other words, someone's fiddled with it exactly.
[3:40] Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's it's funny. We've got a great
[3:43] Speaker 2: university Southern Cross University familiar with them up in Lismore.
[3:46] Speaker 2: They have a wonderful world class testing and I was
[3:49] Speaker 2: up there at one time visiting and the manager of
[3:53] Speaker 2: their testing facility said, they test a lot of you know,
[3:56] Speaker 2: products that come for a rectail dysfunction, like herbs that
[4:00] Speaker 2: come for that, like horny golt weeat. And when they
[4:04] Speaker 2: were tasked.
[4:04] Speaker 1: There's a thing called horny gogwork for rect old dysfunction.
[4:07] Speaker 1: That's called horny gowed exactly. Well, it does get pretty horny,
[4:10] Speaker 1: I guess.
[4:11] Speaker 2: But what they were finding is actually some of the
[4:13] Speaker 2: stuff coming in was spiked with seldenafil with spiked with viagra.
[4:19] Speaker 1: Essentially, no wonder work, no.
[4:20] Speaker 2: Wonder it works, right, But that's these are the types
[4:23] Speaker 2: of things that are really important.
[4:24] Speaker 1: But by the way, be the problem if you were
[4:26] Speaker 1: allergic to it, or we had some problem with via
[4:28] Speaker 1: growth or some other issue that the side effect, et cetera.
[4:32] Speaker 1: It could be a real and you don't know.
[4:34] Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. So so it requires us to test
[4:37] Speaker 2: follow a number of steps for rometer, including allergens and
[4:40] Speaker 2: different things like that heavy metals to to your earlier
[4:43] Speaker 2: point being contamination and contamination.
[4:46] Speaker 1: Yeah, so we are talking about contamination adulteration, where something's
[4:52] Speaker 1: put in there purposely to achieve an outcome that's not
[4:56] Speaker 1: necessarily on the label. In this regard to these regulations,
[5:00] Speaker 1: have to make sure that you sort of tell people
[5:02] Speaker 1: if you're taking antidepressants you shouldn't be taking this particular
[5:05] Speaker 1: aspect as well.
[5:06] Speaker 2: Yeah, there are certain guidelines that it's it's actually really
[5:10] Speaker 2: good that there's a there's a classification called the Australian
[5:15] Speaker 2: Register of Therapeutic Goods the ARTG, and anyone can look
[5:19] Speaker 2: it up. You can go on right now the TGA
[5:21] Speaker 2: and look up all the ingredients that are allowed to
[5:24] Speaker 2: be sold in Australia as a listed medicine and it
[5:26] Speaker 2: will tell you on there any warnings, any limitations, you know,
[5:32] Speaker 2: try to keep below a certain amount or if you
[5:35] Speaker 2: have if you're on warfare in for instance, or blood
[5:38] Speaker 2: blood indus that to watch out for these or speak
[5:42] Speaker 2: to your healthcare professional.
[5:43] Speaker 1: And do you have to do like a little brotion,
[5:45] Speaker 1: they're like a little well.
[5:46] Speaker 2: We don't know for that, no, but we do have
[5:48] Speaker 2: to have specific warnings like on the label.
[5:51] Speaker 1: So and I know we're sort of sidetracking a little bit,
[5:55] Speaker 1: but I mean, we're talking about the role of the
[5:57] Speaker 1: chief science officer, but the chief science officer role is
[5:59] Speaker 1: to make sure that the company's complying with these regulations.
[6:02] Speaker 1: But I think the point sort of coming out of
[6:04] Speaker 1: this is that longevity supplements and health supplements a massive
[6:12] Speaker 1: in Australia relative to the rest of the world, and
[6:16] Speaker 1: it is a very seductive territory for all sorts of
[6:20] Speaker 1: people to try and take advantage of, which is great.
[6:26] Speaker 1: Everybody should be really aware of their health and longevity,
[6:29] Speaker 1: et cetera. But I think what we're getting out of
[6:32] Speaker 1: this is that there's something I know that Melrose does
[6:35] Speaker 1: is to make sure that what you buy is not
[6:40] Speaker 1: going to be worse for you than you expected to do.
[6:43] Speaker 1: In other words, it's not going to have some contamination
[6:44] Speaker 1: or some sort of as not adulterated, or it's got
[6:47] Speaker 1: something that's going to clash with whatever else you're taking
[6:50] Speaker 1: and make you more ill than you expect to be
[6:53] Speaker 1: in the first place, which is the reason why operating
[6:56] Speaker 1: under these regulations is pretty important, which is what a
[6:59] Speaker 1: chief science officer. One of the roles of the chief
[7:02] Speaker 1: science officer is exactly. And you have you probably have
[7:06] Speaker 1: a couple of people underneath you who are doing this
[7:08] Speaker 1: stuff all day.
[7:09] Speaker 2: Yes, that's right, yeah, so right across all the regulations
[7:12] Speaker 2: and all the raw materials as well. It's a pretty
[7:16] Speaker 2: small industry, to be honest with you, and it can
[7:18] Speaker 2: be quite incestuous, like people bounce around from different places
[7:21] Speaker 2: to place. But you get to know the people who
[7:23] Speaker 2: are good. Yeah, suppliers and you do. Yeah, consumers don't.
[7:28] Speaker 2: The audience doesn't.
[7:30] Speaker 1: Which one of the reason I wanted to get you
[7:31] Speaker 1: in today is to explain these things because at the
[7:34] Speaker 1: beginning of the new year, someone will be sitting there
[7:36] Speaker 1: with the part of saying, Okay, this year, I'm going
[7:40] Speaker 1: to turn fifty, I'm going to turn fifty five, or
[7:44] Speaker 1: whatever it is, we're going to turn twenty five, it
[7:46] Speaker 1: doesn't matter. I'm going to make sure that I'm really
[7:50] Speaker 1: healthy and smoke less darts. I'm going to drink less booze.
[7:54] Speaker 1: I'm going to train much more, try and get my
[7:57] Speaker 1: sleep right. I'm going to try and eat better, and
[8:00] Speaker 1: I'm going to start looking at supplementing myself where I
[8:04] Speaker 1: can where necessary. In that regard, you've got to go
[8:07] Speaker 1: to a chemist or wherever, health food store, wherever you
[8:11] Speaker 1: go and because you know, we get by it online
[8:13] Speaker 1: to I guess, but you're going to be one of
[8:15] Speaker 1: those processes. You're going to start saying, well, there's millions
[8:18] Speaker 1: of things up there to choose, from which one do
[8:20] Speaker 1: I choose? And I guess. What I want you to
[8:24] Speaker 1: tell us today is and talk to us about today
[8:27] Speaker 1: is what are the latest and greatest things that everybody's
[8:30] Speaker 1: talking about? You know, we get hit up on and
[8:34] Speaker 1: just everybody who's in this who's interested in these things.
[8:38] Speaker 1: People like me, for example, we're on Instagram, and as
[8:42] Speaker 1: soon as we look at one of these supplements or
[8:45] Speaker 1: one person talking about it, the algorithm works it out
[8:48] Speaker 1: and we get fifty people talking to us about it,
[8:50] Speaker 1: and next thing I know, we're all over the shop
[8:52] Speaker 1: and none of us have got any scientific expertise, which
[8:56] Speaker 1: why it's important for me to get someone like you
[8:58] Speaker 1: your expertise on the show. So let's talk around a
[9:01] Speaker 1: little bit around about the science these things, and also
[9:05] Speaker 1: around what's popular and where are people trending? If that
[9:12] Speaker 1: would be all right, Yeah, that would be really important
[9:14] Speaker 1: I think for the start of twenty twenty six for
[9:16] Speaker 1: most people I do have one of your products here,
[9:19] Speaker 1: we'll talk about and MN a little bit later, and
[9:22] Speaker 1: this says Mira's Future Lab Future Lab, And my first
[9:26] Speaker 1: question for is what is future Lab.
[9:28] Speaker 2: Future Lab is our brand that we've created specifically to
[9:31] Speaker 2: focus on, I guess, providing Australians with evidence based medicines
[9:37] Speaker 2: to help them self manage their care through longevity, through
[9:41] Speaker 2: maintaining an optimal health span and optimal health as they age.
[9:46] Speaker 2: So everything in there, everything in our range has specifically
[9:49] Speaker 2: been designed to support longevity and optimize optimal health.
[9:54] Speaker 1: And when you say designed, you mean scientifically designed in
[9:59] Speaker 1: terms of ingreened gradients and dosage and et cetera. Designed
[10:06] Speaker 1: by Future Labs in Future Labs exactly. Huge Labs is
[10:09] Speaker 1: an Australian company. It's Australian, So maybe is it an actual
[10:13] Speaker 1: lab like a large lab.
[10:15] Speaker 2: Yes, we do, yeah, but we I mean we're we
[10:20] Speaker 2: formulate the products. I use kind of the experience that
[10:25] Speaker 2: I've built through in my career formulating products to understanding
[10:30] Speaker 2: what are the best what are the best ingredients for
[10:32] Speaker 2: these type of things that we're trying to achieve. So
[10:35] Speaker 2: I'll give you an example Burberine. We have a burgerene product,
[10:40] Speaker 2: you've burberine has been kind of hyped a lot kind
[10:43] Speaker 2: of been considered this nature's o zeenpic and you you know, TikTok,
[10:48] Speaker 2: and there's a lot of things. But berberine is not
[10:51] Speaker 2: very easily it's not very bioavailable.
[10:53] Speaker 1: In other words, ingested and get and get the get
[10:56] Speaker 1: the best stuff out.
[10:56] Speaker 2: Of Yeah, it doesn't like it. It doesn't like to
[10:58] Speaker 2: be used by humans. And so in order to.
[11:02] Speaker 1: And is it of herbison? What is it herb Yeah,
[11:04] Speaker 1: so gross And looking back out.
[11:06] Speaker 2: That's a plant called berberous aristata, it's the botanical name.
[11:10] Speaker 2: And berberine is a called a phytochemical or plant based
[11:16] Speaker 2: chemical that's found in berberous aristata. And just but just
[11:20] Speaker 2: because you harvest that berberous aristata, you actually have to
[11:24] Speaker 2: get it into a way that your body can use it.
[11:27] Speaker 1: So well, that's what biavailable means, that's what available means.
[11:30] Speaker 1: It's so biologically available once you ingest it, that's right,
[11:34] Speaker 1: assuming you're going to take you through the mouth.
[11:36] Speaker 2: So we use a form from an Italian company called
[11:40] Speaker 2: Indiana based out of Milan, who've been studying herbal medicine
[11:44] Speaker 2: for years and years and years, and what they've discovered.
[11:49] Speaker 2: They've done a number of clinical trials on this particular
[11:52] Speaker 2: form of burberine for its actions and what it does
[11:56] Speaker 2: in the body is it activates an enzyme that's responsible
[12:00] Speaker 2: for a lot of really important things from a longevity perspective.
[12:04] Speaker 2: This molecule is called a mp K. I don't know
[12:08] Speaker 2: if you've heard of it before, but it's it basically
[12:10] Speaker 2: is involved in metabolic health, so glucose metabolism, but also autophagy,
[12:17] Speaker 2: so clearing out these sinescent cells.
[12:20] Speaker 1: Which the sinesta cells. Maybe maybe you need to explain
[12:23] Speaker 1: if you're these things, but as understand, sinest.
[12:25] Speaker 3: Cells are like effectively dead zombie cells. They also call them, yeah,
[12:29] Speaker 3: that need to be cleared out. That if you you
[12:31] Speaker 3: collect these over over your years and just from from life,
[12:36] Speaker 3: and our body is very good at clearing them out
[12:38] Speaker 3: when we're young, and not so good when we're older,
[12:40] Speaker 3: and too much of this can cause chronic inflammation. It's
[12:43] Speaker 3: it's it's a real interesting cascade of what happens here.
[12:46] Speaker 1: But obviously talk about birmerine as an alternam to bed
[12:51] Speaker 1: form and that's right, so and met foreman being the
[12:54] Speaker 1: chemical some people take you and they talk about it
[12:59] Speaker 1: as is something to help you all glucose levels, et cetera,
[13:04] Speaker 1: like to mediate glucose in your system and all the
[13:08] Speaker 1: other inflammation inflammatory style things we ingest and or your
[13:12] Speaker 1: body producers. And I heard him say once said berberine
[13:16] Speaker 1: whilst most people can't get met forman or a lot
[13:19] Speaker 1: of people don't want to start taking met forman. I
[13:21] Speaker 1: don't know if it's an injection or a pill, but
[13:25] Speaker 1: I think he tastes met forman. I mean, I've heard
[13:27] Speaker 1: a few people who people I know who take met forman.
[13:30] Speaker 1: It's more experimental. I don't think the government's approves it.
[13:33] Speaker 1: But burberine is something that he said you can take
[13:36] Speaker 1: as an alternative. I don't know if he says is
[13:39] Speaker 1: as effective. But the point being that you're making is
[13:42] Speaker 1: oh great, I'll go buy berber and I'll go on
[13:43] Speaker 1: the internet and I'll buy a berberin. But like you
[13:46] Speaker 1: want to know that the format in which it's being
[13:50] Speaker 1: delivered to you, by whoever's selling it to you is
[13:52] Speaker 1: a way that's effective. Because just because we've got berberine
[13:55] Speaker 1: on the bottom might be berberine, but doesn't mean there's
[13:57] Speaker 1: going to be most of my Bullshet so it does
[13:59] Speaker 1: nothing for you. Yeah, and you just sit there every
[14:01] Speaker 1: day taking one of these things and thinking I'm going
[14:03] Speaker 1: good and nothing is really doing anything. So so Future
[14:07] Speaker 1: Labs works on these sorts of projects to make sure
[14:12] Speaker 1: how do we get the how do we curate the
[14:14] Speaker 1: best burmarine.
[14:15] Speaker 2: That's right, where do we find it, what is the
[14:17] Speaker 2: most research, How is it going to work in the body?
[14:20] Speaker 2: How is it going to work with other things that
[14:21] Speaker 2: we put it in there? And to get the outcome
[14:24] Speaker 2: that you need. So we scanned all different types of beverine,
[14:28] Speaker 2: and you know, there's a concept of standardized herbs. So
[14:34] Speaker 2: lots of times if you have a herbal medicine or
[14:36] Speaker 2: if you're taking a herbal tincture from a naturopath or
[14:39] Speaker 2: a herbalist, they'll be they'll be found in a solvent
[14:42] Speaker 2: like alcohol or glycerine, and sometimes they're standardized. Not so
[14:47] Speaker 2: standardized means that they are there is a particular marker
[14:53] Speaker 2: that the company has chosen as a proxy for for efficacy.
[14:59] Speaker 2: So it's it's basically, hey, we think that. So in ginko,
[15:04] Speaker 2: it's ginka below, but it's thinker sides right. In berberine,
[15:11] Speaker 2: berberous aristata it's burberine, right, and so you want it
[15:14] Speaker 2: to be standardized to berberine because that is what is
[15:17] Speaker 2: believed to be the the the active that's working in
[15:20] Speaker 2: your burberine. So you just have a standard berberous aristata
[15:23] Speaker 2: extract that's some off the shelf that's been steeped in alcohol.
[15:27] Speaker 2: It's not necessarily going to get you the outcome that
[15:29] Speaker 2: you know.
[15:30] Speaker 1: It does get you the active ingredient that you need
[15:33] Speaker 1: to get the effect that call burberine is is allegedly
[15:38] Speaker 1: supposed to give you. So is it would be fair
[15:40] Speaker 1: to say that and I want the worst? Would it
[15:44] Speaker 1: be fair to say that most people just go on
[15:48] Speaker 1: the insidt and go I need berberine. Now I'll go
[15:51] Speaker 1: find where burbery is. And I imagine there's lots of
[15:54] Speaker 1: scammers out there too, like people just selling ship.
[15:57] Speaker 2: Absolutely yeah, and it's actually getting a worse in Australia
[16:01] Speaker 2: as well. There's there's a concept of personal use exemption
[16:04] Speaker 2: from the Australian population. That means that as an Australian
[16:09] Speaker 2: you can import things for your own personal use outside
[16:13] Speaker 2: of our regulatory system. So a lot of people will
[16:16] Speaker 2: import dietary supplements from the US or from other areas
[16:22] Speaker 2: that are under different regulatory pathways, and so they'll and
[16:25] Speaker 2: and it's a bit of a loophole and it needs
[16:28] Speaker 2: to be fixed where dietary supplements aren't currently regulated by
[16:33] Speaker 2: the TGA, so they can they and they do. They
[16:36] Speaker 2: appear all over social media right now because the TGA
[16:40] Speaker 2: can't do anything about them. So you have these companies
[16:43] Speaker 2: coming in and going, oh, we can do all these things,
[16:44] Speaker 2: and we've got these products and it's a great price,
[16:46] Speaker 2: and you can buy it, and it's and you can
[16:48] Speaker 2: buy it through this concept called the personal use exemption.
[16:52] Speaker 2: And but it's it's really not fair to the Australian
[16:55] Speaker 2: population because you don't actually know what you're getting.
[16:58] Speaker 1: Yeah, and i'd imagine there's probably lots lots of occasions
[17:01] Speaker 1: where you think you're getting burmering, for example, and for
[17:04] Speaker 1: all you know, you could be getting you know, I
[17:06] Speaker 1: don't know, some other weird thing that that won't kill you.
[17:11] Speaker 1: But at the same time it does absolutely stuff all
[17:13] Speaker 1: for you.
[17:13] Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. And it gives the industry a bad
[17:16] Speaker 2: name too, because at worst it's not working, or at
[17:19] Speaker 2: best it's not working. At worst it could cause harm
[17:23] Speaker 2: and you know, you don't want this to end up
[17:24] Speaker 2: with someone having harm, but you know something has to
[17:29] Speaker 2: has to change with that.
[17:30] Speaker 1: So just just we just think to all about burmering
[17:33] Speaker 1: for a second. Is that one of future labs products? Okay?
[17:36] Speaker 1: So why why would someone, let's say, you know, young
[17:43] Speaker 1: man your age take burmering.
[17:46] Speaker 2: Yeah, so I take burgerin every day?
[17:49] Speaker 1: Why why why would you? What's the reason I take it?
[17:51] Speaker 2: Because I'm really conscious of my metabolic health, particularly as
[17:58] Speaker 2: I turned.
[17:59] Speaker 1: What is metabolic health?
[18:00] Speaker 2: Yep, So that's how well your body manages blood glucose
[18:03] Speaker 2: and insulin that you know, the responses to sugars and carbohydrates.
[18:10] Speaker 2: And what we know is that poor metabolic health is
[18:16] Speaker 2: one of the most important negative attributes to aging. It's
[18:22] Speaker 2: actually a model for aging. Diabetes is a model for aging.
[18:26] Speaker 1: Right, So, but it's not just diabetes who're talking about here,
[18:30] Speaker 1: it's just aging generally, inflammation, everything else that.
[18:34] Speaker 2: It's caused from poor poor metabolic function causes inflammation, It
[18:38] Speaker 2: causes a whole cascade of issues, and you know, I
[18:44] Speaker 2: think it's really important and this is I think this
[18:46] Speaker 2: is one of the reasons why Peter Attia also takes
[18:49] Speaker 2: meta form and is because getting ahead of that, and
[18:52] Speaker 2: it particularly is you're aging, how well your body processes
[18:57] Speaker 2: glucose and manages its insulin, risks, bants, manages the sensitivity
[19:03] Speaker 2: is a important determining factor and how long you're going
[19:07] Speaker 2: to live and how well you're going to live as
[19:08] Speaker 2: you age as well, because it's a whole cascade from
[19:11] Speaker 2: neurological function to cardiac cardiac function, to you know, fat distribution,
[19:17] Speaker 2: to a lot of things, and it all kind of
[19:19] Speaker 2: starts with metabola.
[19:20] Speaker 1: Calf and you know importantly energy, Yeah, your your energy systems,
[19:26] Speaker 1: you mitochondri etcetera.
[19:27] Speaker 2: And it's it can become a virtuous cycle, right and
[19:31] Speaker 2: in a negative way in it well it's like yeah,
[19:34] Speaker 2: that's right, positive and negative. Yeah, yeah, And you know
[19:37] Speaker 2: we'll talk about NMN, but that's that kind of kicks
[19:40] Speaker 2: off the flywheel in some regards.
[19:42] Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's it's very interesting. So because I've been
[19:46] Speaker 1: a little bit It's funny you talked about burberin today,
[19:48] Speaker 1: because I I have more recently been thinking looking at
[19:52] Speaker 1: and thinking about it and doing lots of reading on it.
[19:56] Speaker 1: And it's good. I think it's good people should read
[19:58] Speaker 1: about these things. You know, they Equally, they've got to
[20:01] Speaker 1: know where to go. And you know, one of the
[20:05] Speaker 1: reasons I've got you guys in here to talk about
[20:09] Speaker 1: future labor is that I'm a big believer in Australian
[20:11] Speaker 1: Australian manufacturers of these types of products. One of the
[20:17] Speaker 1: big reasons I'm a big believer and is because of
[20:19] Speaker 1: the so I won't call a purity, but let's call it.
[20:24] Speaker 1: The regulatory oversight that has applied in Australia compared to
[20:31] Speaker 1: other places in the world, is a way of at
[20:34] Speaker 1: least de risking what it is that I'm taking, because
[20:37] Speaker 1: I think that's the first thing you got to one.
[20:40] Speaker 1: You want to take it for advantage, what if that
[20:43] Speaker 1: advantage may be. And we'll talk about burbing a little
[20:45] Speaker 1: bit in a second and and other things. But equally
[20:50] Speaker 1: you need to be prepared to do risk it too.
[20:52] Speaker 1: And I think a big element, or a heavily weighted
[20:56] Speaker 1: part of de risking is if you just buy from
[20:59] Speaker 1: Australia by from Australian manufacturer, not because we just want
[21:02] Speaker 1: to be Australian. We do want to be Astralian, I
[21:03] Speaker 1: get that, but because there's just a sometimes a disadvantage
[21:08] Speaker 1: in this country. But our regulatory environment is very strict
[21:11] Speaker 1: with these things. And if you're producing it here in
[21:13] Speaker 1: Australia and you're settling it to here in Australia, you've
[21:17] Speaker 1: got to be on your metal and you can't pay
[21:19] Speaker 1: somebody off. You know, you can't just say listen, I'll
[21:23] Speaker 1: send you a thousand bucks or you know, a truckload
[21:26] Speaker 1: of bob where it is. I mean, you can't. That
[21:28] Speaker 1: sort of shit doesn't happen. We're too sophisticated, too heavily
[21:32] Speaker 1: sort of regulated, generally speaking, for anybody even to try
[21:36] Speaker 1: that sort of stuff. I mean, maybe some try, but
[21:38] Speaker 1: it's rare. So it's all about de risking. De risking
[21:42] Speaker 1: is very important. And I know it sounds like a
[21:45] Speaker 1: boring topic for this show, but regulatory d risks part
[21:49] Speaker 1: of the so called trendiness of this stuff, because trendiness,
[21:54] Speaker 1: like the old snake or salesman, attracts them. You know,
[21:59] Speaker 1: in Australia's got that reputation. We love this stuff. We
[22:03] Speaker 1: love supplements. Compared to the rest of the world on
[22:06] Speaker 1: a per capita basis, as I under said, we do
[22:09] Speaker 1: way better than everybody else. We were out of it
[22:11] Speaker 1: and then and we're also way more regulated anyone else
[22:16] Speaker 1: in the world, just about in every aspect of our
[22:17] Speaker 1: business life. But and that's one aspect I just wanted
[22:20] Speaker 1: to talk about that if I hopefully did borrow Auding stewit,
[22:23] Speaker 1: I think it's important. Future Labs is that type of organization,
[22:27] Speaker 1: which is why is important to get something like you
[22:28] Speaker 1: in here today as a chief Chief Science Office or
[22:31] Speaker 1: of Future Labs, which is you know, it's one of
[22:33] Speaker 1: Melrose's brands. I do want to come back though, to Burberine,
[22:40] Speaker 1: so because most people have never heard of berberine. But
[22:44] Speaker 1: what a lot of people may have heard of is
[22:45] Speaker 1: met Forman. But met form is something you've got to
[22:48] Speaker 1: go to a doctor about. You probably have to get
[22:50] Speaker 1: a proper prescription for it. It's a new drug. It's
[22:56] Speaker 1: probably not on the PBS. I'm sure it's expensive. I
[23:00] Speaker 1: definitely ever tried it. But we have people like Peter
[23:04] Speaker 1: to talk about burberine. I've heard him talk about it,
[23:06] Speaker 1: and if we can get a good quality burberine, it's
[23:09] Speaker 1: interesting to look at that as a part of your
[23:11] Speaker 1: supplementation because you're not like you're going to be jumping
[23:14] Speaker 1: in the garden and to on a berberine plant or
[23:16] Speaker 1: whatever you call it the Italian name with a Latin name.
[23:20] Speaker 1: But so and then you want to get the best
[23:22] Speaker 1: quality one and the one that's the most by available
[23:25] Speaker 1: once you take it. So how often do you take
[23:29] Speaker 1: something like this? Is it like a daily sipplement?
[23:32] Speaker 2: Yeah, I take it every day.
[23:34] Speaker 1: Is it like a little tablet or a capsule capsule capsule?
[23:37] Speaker 1: Is it liquid or it's a powdered powdered as a
[23:42] Speaker 1: capsule of powder type thing.
[23:43] Speaker 2: That's right, two piece hardshell capsule. All of our products
[23:46] Speaker 2: are We don't use tablets if we don't have to,
[23:51] Speaker 2: because tablets can be difficult. A they've got a lot
[23:54] Speaker 2: of excipients in them. An excipient is something that's used
[23:58] Speaker 2: to in the in the process of men manufacturing a medicine.
[24:01] Speaker 1: So for the holds it together, you may.
[24:03] Speaker 2: There's binders, and then there are disintegrants, and then there
[24:06] Speaker 2: are coatings and these are chemicals and yeah, that's right,
[24:09] Speaker 2: pavdon cross pavdon. You know all of these things that
[24:13] Speaker 2: are you just don't need in your in your body.
[24:17] Speaker 2: So we try to stay away from.
[24:18] Speaker 1: That as more capsules.
[24:20] Speaker 2: Yeah, sometimes because when you have a tablet you can.
[24:24] Speaker 2: You can crank that sucker right down. So sometimes you
[24:27] Speaker 2: have to have means, two capsules instead of one tablet
[24:30] Speaker 2: or something like that, but very manageable.
[24:32] Speaker 1: And just on capsules, if you don't mind telling me
[24:34] Speaker 1: this some you know, like I've always been curious about this.
[24:36] Speaker 1: Capsules made of? What it's not plasy well, I mean
[24:39] Speaker 1: obviously not plasid. What's made of? Is it digestible? Is
[24:42] Speaker 1: it a?
[24:42] Speaker 2: It's a it's a vegetable cellulose.
[24:45] Speaker 1: Essentially, so there's nothing wrong with it. No, No, it's
[24:48] Speaker 1: not like sort of you know, there's nothing. You can't
[24:51] Speaker 1: overload on capsules, is my point.
[24:53] Speaker 2: No, you're not going to overload on capsules. It's as
[24:56] Speaker 2: it's as low excipient as you can get. It's as
[24:58] Speaker 2: clean using two piece capsule. Veggie caap is as clean
[25:03] Speaker 2: as you can get from a delivering complementary medicine.
[25:07] Speaker 1: Right and and and then in terms of once it
[25:10] Speaker 1: gets in your tummy and it sort of sort of
[25:14] Speaker 1: makes contact with all the other chemicals and something like
[25:16] Speaker 1: hydrochloric acid, and then it goes into the oar in testine,
[25:21] Speaker 1: and then it comes in contact with costic so caustic
[25:24] Speaker 1: type tope products. These the delivery back into your system.
[25:31] Speaker 1: Is it fairly efficient.
[25:33] Speaker 2: In some things yes? And other things no. Let's say
[25:36] Speaker 2: burberine for instance. No, you just if you just even
[25:39] Speaker 2: if you have a standardized burberine, real high quality you're
[25:43] Speaker 2: taking it, your body isn't going to be able to
[25:45] Speaker 2: absorb that very well. It can't absorb those type of chemicals,
[25:50] Speaker 2: those type of fighter chemicals, which is why one of
[25:53] Speaker 2: the things that we do in Future Lab is we
[25:56] Speaker 2: use a technology that can INHTS bioavailability and in many
[26:02] Speaker 2: cases as well tolerability because burberine can be quite quite
[26:07] Speaker 2: irritating on the gut lining. Yeah, and the burberine that
[26:13] Speaker 2: we have they complex it with grape seed and and
[26:19] Speaker 2: peat protein to help buffer it, so it's it actually
[26:23] Speaker 2: is much more tolerable. But the other thing that this
[26:27] Speaker 2: company uses in DINA, they use this technology called a fytisme,
[26:32] Speaker 2: and a fytisome is essentially their branded term for a
[26:36] Speaker 2: mechanism delivering berberine in a fat. In this case, it's
[26:41] Speaker 2: a lesser than it's a sunflower, less than that your body.
[26:45] Speaker 1: Has as in less than in lecan do you say,
[26:51] Speaker 1: I don't know. Some people say, that's what you the
[26:54] Speaker 1: same thing, which is a supplement.
[26:57] Speaker 2: It as a form of it can be a form
[26:58] Speaker 2: of vitamin E. Yeah, but it's a but it's a
[27:02] Speaker 2: fat based ingredient. And in many cases if you have
[27:07] Speaker 2: something that is they call lipophilic fat loving, that's what
[27:15] Speaker 2: burberine is, very lipophilic herb. Delivering it in a fat
[27:20] Speaker 2: helps your body absorb it better. Very interesting, and that's
[27:23] Speaker 2: that's what this technology has discovered. So there's actually we
[27:27] Speaker 2: use a few of them. This one is from Italy,
[27:30] Speaker 2: very great. We have another one actually that's made right
[27:32] Speaker 2: here in Australia right on the Northern beaches. What's a
[27:36] Speaker 2: they're called lipisperse technology and we use that in our veratrol.
[27:40] Speaker 2: They also have a very good berberine as well, called
[27:42] Speaker 2: bioburb but they have a percumen called Hydrokirk. There's a
[27:48] Speaker 2: lot of these really great technologies that have fantastic evidence
[27:53] Speaker 2: supporting them. They do they do pharmacokinetic studies, they do
[27:57] Speaker 2: blood studies in humans up in in Queensland on these
[28:02] Speaker 2: these ingredients and demonstrating an increase in absorption and usability
[28:08] Speaker 2: over just a standard delivery system.
[28:10] Speaker 1: So and because what they coat the molecule with let's
[28:16] Speaker 1: call it just to make it sound a bit more simple.
[28:19] Speaker 1: Is something much more. It is a much better delivery
[28:23] Speaker 1: system to what the way we work exactly our gut
[28:27] Speaker 1: from our gut's point of view.
[28:28] Speaker 2: And there are there are chemicals that are good for
[28:32] Speaker 2: fat so lipophilic, and there are ones that are good
[28:35] Speaker 2: for water hydrophilic, and each one of them is a
[28:38] Speaker 2: different delivery for each So you've got lipispurse or or
[28:43] Speaker 2: the fightersome or if it's if it's water loving, you
[28:49] Speaker 2: have a liposome. If you've heard of a technology or
[28:53] Speaker 2: concept of a liposomal delivery system, people.
[28:57] Speaker 1: Get it in the bottom and see now you get
[28:58] Speaker 1: the see and other things. But yeah, we have a
[29:02] Speaker 1: lapis vitamin C as well. You guys have that as well,
[29:04] Speaker 1: we do. Yeah, is a future lab. It is future.
[29:07] Speaker 1: So let's talk. You mentioned rosveratol. Yes, I've also heard
[29:13] Speaker 1: Peoto talk about too, and I think as I understand
[29:17] Speaker 1: that Andrew Human.
[29:18] Speaker 2: Takes rosa troll Sinclair as well.
[29:21] Speaker 1: And David Sinclair. Yeah, David Sinclair very famous Australian, probably
[29:24] Speaker 1: one of the most famous long gears scientists.
[29:26] Speaker 2: In the world.
[29:27] Speaker 1: In the world today and he grazing about is an
[29:32] Speaker 1: Aussi but he and they're talking about longevity. A whole
[29:37] Speaker 1: lot of signs around long Jev, not just Suppliments but
[29:39] Speaker 1: probably altering geenes and things of that, but it doesn't
[29:41] Speaker 1: matter slightly different. But he is coming out more recently,
[29:44] Speaker 1: but he's only actually been Australia more recently, and they've
[29:46] Speaker 1: been talking about they're on the very edge of some
[29:50] Speaker 1: discoveries and or releasing those studies this year. But let's
[29:54] Speaker 1: job about resveratol. So some people I remember it first
[29:59] Speaker 1: came out Mini many years ago. People used to say
[30:03] Speaker 1: red wine is really good for you because there's something
[30:06] Speaker 1: in red wine, resveratrol, which is in red wine. Icicle.
[30:09] Speaker 1: I used to think it was reverse a trol, but
[30:12] Speaker 1: its resveratrol. And yeah, and it's why that's why I
[30:16] Speaker 1: thought the name was good, was reversing agent. But it's
[30:18] Speaker 1: in the red wine. It's in the red grape skin,
[30:22] Speaker 1: as I understand it. And everyone used to say in
[30:25] Speaker 1: those days, that's why red wine's good for you. You can
[30:27] Speaker 1: have a glass of red wine or two glass of
[30:28] Speaker 1: red wine and it's really good for you. And but
[30:32] Speaker 1: someone ingeniously said well, let's have a look with the
[30:35] Speaker 1: active ingredient in the so called red wine that's good
[30:38] Speaker 1: for you. It's it's the resveratrol. And they started to
[30:41] Speaker 1: put it in a I think it was in a
[30:44] Speaker 1: tablet form, I can't remember, but when it first came out,
[30:46] Speaker 1: and people used to talk about it all the time.
[30:48] Speaker 1: To me anyway, and what is it's supposed to do?
[30:55] Speaker 2: Yeah, so a lot of things. There is a a
[31:00] Speaker 2: ton of great outcomes from res viatrol. It's actually a
[31:03] Speaker 2: little bit controversial, and because of doctor Sinclair, so he
[31:09] Speaker 2: did some research on it and kind of found some
[31:12] Speaker 2: really interesting behaviors of it, but then extrapolated those out
[31:16] Speaker 2: and there's a there's a bit of controversy right now
[31:18] Speaker 2: between Atia and Sinclair and a lot of a lot
[31:21] Speaker 2: of the others around the value of vers vitrol.
[31:24] Speaker 1: But the scientific science yeah, and by the way, scientists
[31:26] Speaker 1: don't always a great and it changes.
[31:28] Speaker 2: We learn more and all the time. I'm sure, well
[31:31] Speaker 2: next year we'll we'll know a lot more than we
[31:33] Speaker 2: do now. But essentially, it helps to activate enzymes in
[31:40] Speaker 2: your body that are responsible for a number of longevity outcomes,
[31:45] Speaker 2: and those enzymes are curtuins so and and Sinclair really
[31:50] Speaker 2: talks a lot about curtuins curtuin activation, and it's this
[31:54] Speaker 2: this whole process between N A D surtuins, a m
[31:58] Speaker 2: p K, n A D curtoins and mpk, this virtuous
[32:01] Speaker 2: cycle that we're trying to achieve. And res vitual is
[32:05] Speaker 2: really important.
[32:05] Speaker 1: For that because for the enzyme process or for helps
[32:09] Speaker 1: to activate through to the enzymes to which also requires
[32:14] Speaker 1: an A D to activate.
[32:17] Speaker 2: That that does a whole bunch of stuff. So telomeres
[32:20] Speaker 2: tell them you lengthening DNA methylation. You heard of your
[32:24] Speaker 2: biological age, you know, all these true diagnostics and different
[32:28] Speaker 2: things like that. That's all related to how well your
[32:31] Speaker 2: body methylates, how well your DNA methylates, your healthy DNA methylation,
[32:36] Speaker 2: turning off some of these inflammatory genes that are important
[32:41] Speaker 2: or that that really impact your your longevity, in your
[32:43] Speaker 2: in your healthy itching.
[32:45] Speaker 1: So it's quite interesting that everything that happens in our
[32:48] Speaker 1: body is always activated through an enzyme. Yeah, just better reading.
[32:52] Speaker 1: And we never talk about enzymes for some reason. We
[32:55] Speaker 1: talk about you need this chemical vitamin C, or you
[32:59] Speaker 1: need calcium, or you need this other mineral in your body,
[33:02] Speaker 1: which you do. But those things all require enzymes to
[33:06] Speaker 1: set the process off. The process gets set up by enzymes. Yeah,
[33:11] Speaker 1: they're like, yeah, it's and this So you're saying, and
[33:15] Speaker 1: I have read about the battle between a Tear and
[33:19] Speaker 1: David Sinclair in terms of and one's a scientist, one's
[33:22] Speaker 1: a clinician. The Tear is a scientist too. I guess
[33:26] Speaker 1: he approaches things scientifically, but he's a clinician. He's a doctor,
[33:31] Speaker 1: whereas Sinclair's he's not a medical but he's a scientific researcher,
[33:37] Speaker 1: but he's a doctor of science. But I guess it's
[33:40] Speaker 1: and there is a bit of and maybe you could
[33:42] Speaker 1: explain about this, but there is a little bit of
[33:43] Speaker 1: a battle going on out there in our world Australia,
[33:47] Speaker 1: especially between doctors and scientists. And you know, my doctor,
[33:54] Speaker 1: I love him. He is a great guy, is my GP.
[33:57] Speaker 1: We've had doctor Stephen Lewan here from Lab. Steven's a
[34:00] Speaker 1: great guy, but he's a clinician. Then then you get
[34:05] Speaker 1: scientists and scientists just what I'm what I'm learning, so
[34:10] Speaker 1: you know a lot more about the depth and detail
[34:13] Speaker 1: of one particular thing. It could be restol, it could
[34:17] Speaker 1: be I don't know, whatever metabolic syndrome or something like that.
[34:22] Speaker 1: The doctors tend to know clinically more about the whole process.
[34:26] Speaker 1: The scientists know much more of the depth of these things.
[34:31] Speaker 1: For some reason, they don't want to see them to
[34:32] Speaker 1: come together. And I think that it's created a bit
[34:36] Speaker 1: of a chasm in our industry. What you're doing, you know,
[34:39] Speaker 1: and like, what project want hundreds here to talk about
[34:42] Speaker 1: is getting the best out of doctors, the clinicians, the
[34:45] Speaker 1: people you go to see at the surgery doctor surgery,
[34:48] Speaker 1: And I'm not talking about people cut you up and
[34:51] Speaker 1: talk about diagnostics and cures. That's at the clinic, at
[34:58] Speaker 1: the doctor. But the science, this is just behind all
[35:00] Speaker 1: these things. This is disconnect You have you seen that?
[35:06] Speaker 2: Absolutely? Yeah, And I think you're you're touching on something
[35:09] Speaker 2: that's really important. I'd say, you know, Peter Atilla is
[35:12] Speaker 2: kind of this advocate for medicine three point zero, which
[35:16] Speaker 2: is looking at longer term things. Most clinicians are kind of,
[35:21] Speaker 2: as he would say, medicine two point zero, which is
[35:23] Speaker 2: basically just managing disease. It's managing disease within very strict
[35:27] Speaker 2: guidelines that the government's it the government sets and that
[35:33] Speaker 2: are not they're not informed. They don't get the amount
[35:37] Speaker 2: of education in functional medicine or nutritional medicine that you
[35:42] Speaker 2: really need to understand how these things work and where
[35:44] Speaker 2: the evidence base is. I think it's something like, you know,
[35:49] Speaker 2: in a four to six year degree, Australian doctors get
[35:54] Speaker 2: something like fifteen hours total wow of nutritional education. And so,
[36:02] Speaker 2: you know, you get these situations where they're just focused
[36:06] Speaker 2: on you have a symptom, I diagnose it through testing
[36:11] Speaker 2: and I give you a solution. I'm just fixing the
[36:13] Speaker 2: problem with you. There's no real understanding of how to
[36:17] Speaker 2: get you out of that cycle of really you know,
[36:21] Speaker 2: kind of focusing on longevity and optimal wellness.
[36:23] Speaker 1: And it's they wouldn't have time either. I mean, I
[36:26] Speaker 1: just think that the structure of how a practice works,
[36:30] Speaker 1: I mean you go in for a few minutes. They're
[36:31] Speaker 1: only getting paid like a small amount of money for
[36:35] Speaker 1: in my view, I mean some people would argue this,
[36:37] Speaker 1: but in my view, what they've what they're doing amount
[36:40] Speaker 1: of time has been studying, and the amount of time
[36:42] Speaker 1: years have taken, and the cost you got to run
[36:43] Speaker 1: out of practice and all that sort of stuff. To me,
[36:46] Speaker 1: they're not getting paid very well. I mean, like you
[36:48] Speaker 1: pay a good lawyer twelve hundred bucks an hour. No
[36:50] Speaker 1: doctor's earning twel hundred dollars an unless he's a surgeon.
[36:53] Speaker 1: They're like a doctor generally speaking, is earning like a
[36:56] Speaker 1: couple hundred bucks an hour. You out accountants getting that
[37:03] Speaker 1: or the charging that. So it's to me the systems
[37:08] Speaker 1: he is broken. It's not encouraging doctors to do more
[37:12] Speaker 1: and do better. It's and sort of put them in
[37:14] Speaker 1: a trap.
[37:16] Speaker 2: And I think they get in trouble if they a
[37:18] Speaker 2: longer time as well.
[37:19] Speaker 1: That's the system it's trapped. And also if they go
[37:23] Speaker 1: a little bit outside of their remit that's been set
[37:27] Speaker 1: by the government and the PBS and everything else, then
[37:31] Speaker 1: the next thing you know, they look like they're being
[37:33] Speaker 1: heretical and a bit radical, and the next thing you know,
[37:36] Speaker 1: they're being investigated and they don't want to risk their license.
[37:40] Speaker 2: Well, the r A c GP, the governing party here
[37:43] Speaker 2: of GPS, have this book called the Red Book that
[37:46] Speaker 2: is published talk about preventative health measures, and in there
[37:50] Speaker 2: they specifically talk about don't do too many tests, which
[37:55] Speaker 2: I just find incredible. I mean, I understand, like you
[37:58] Speaker 2: don't want to know dry down on test and what
[38:00] Speaker 2: people need. But how else are we going to know
[38:03] Speaker 2: what's going on with people? So we're going to know
[38:05] Speaker 2: vitamin D status, vitamin k' status. You know whether or
[38:09] Speaker 2: not you have this, like is it just LDL or
[38:14] Speaker 2: is it apple b a LDL? You know some of
[38:17] Speaker 2: the cholesterol that actually causes athosclerosis. We're just not looking
[38:22] Speaker 2: for the right stuff and we're not looking at all.
[38:25] Speaker 1: It as funny as you'ld say that you like. Just
[38:27] Speaker 1: as an example, many many years ago, and you know,
[38:31] Speaker 1: the doctor's not even alive anymore. I was prescribed because
[38:35] Speaker 1: I had reflex. I was prescribed by a gastonologist. I'm
[38:39] Speaker 1: talking about thirty years ago, a tablet which is what
[38:43] Speaker 1: they call a PPO protein pump inhibitor, which is I
[38:47] Speaker 1: won't say the name of the particular probably there's lots
[38:49] Speaker 1: of them and you can buy them with the chemist.
[38:51] Speaker 1: And I start taking it just to stop the reflex,
[38:55] Speaker 1: which is fine. It worked. And then more recently, over
[39:00] Speaker 1: the last four or five years, since I've been doing
[39:02] Speaker 1: my own to work on this, I found out that
[39:07] Speaker 1: the result so I wouldn't see gasnologist to solve one thing.
[39:12] Speaker 1: What he was there to solve was acid reflux. The
[39:15] Speaker 1: problem with acid reflex is that you know, as you
[39:17] Speaker 1: get older, as you can get up in esophagus and
[39:21] Speaker 1: cause all sorts of damage which you don't want. And
[39:23] Speaker 1: that's that's his territory to solve that problem. But the
[39:29] Speaker 1: one of the outcomes of taking these premium pump inhibitors
[39:33] Speaker 1: PPIs is that you have less acid in your stomach,
[39:36] Speaker 1: which is what it's designed to do. As a result
[39:38] Speaker 1: of having less acid in your stomach, you don't digest
[39:41] Speaker 1: your food as well because you've got less digestive processes
[39:45] Speaker 1: going on in your stomach, which turns into something else
[39:48] Speaker 1: and puts into intestines where it gets absorbed. And one
[39:54] Speaker 1: of the two of the things you you get less
[39:56] Speaker 1: of is voo and B twelve and calcium because you
[40:03] Speaker 1: need it. You need the food to be really heavily
[40:06] Speaker 1: broken down into this thing called chime in order to
[40:09] Speaker 1: get those two things, and they're pretty important as you
[40:12] Speaker 1: get older, especially calcium for your bones, vitem B twelve
[40:16] Speaker 1: for a whole raft of things. You go to the
[40:21] Speaker 1: GP to get your those days to get your blood's done.
[40:26] Speaker 1: No one was testing for vitem B twelve. They do
[40:29] Speaker 1: today but not then. So as a result of that,
[40:32] Speaker 1: you feel as though you don't have as much energy,
[40:34] Speaker 1: and you get your immune system gets a little bit
[40:36] Speaker 1: broken down because you're haven't going to vite and be twelve.
[40:38] Speaker 1: You're eating the right thing, but just not absorbing the
[40:40] Speaker 1: food because you don't have enough acid in your stomach.
[40:42] Speaker 1: But mind you, and you're not getting acid reflex either.
[40:45] Speaker 1: But the doctor was sold And I'm not need to
[40:46] Speaker 1: criticize doctors, by by the way, the people I deal
[40:49] Speaker 1: with are great. But I'm talking about back then. But
[40:52] Speaker 1: this is part of the issue with medicine today. And
[40:56] Speaker 1: that's what you're talking about. What Peter T is talking
[40:58] Speaker 1: about medicine two point zero, medicine three point oh, which
[41:03] Speaker 1: Peter T is talking about is more in your realm.
[41:06] Speaker 1: It's I'm doing all that stuff that you do in
[41:09] Speaker 1: two point zero, but we must evolve into we don't
[41:12] Speaker 1: have it in Australia, but we mustn't evolve into the
[41:14] Speaker 1: new system. Stephen Leu is starting to try and do
[41:16] Speaker 1: it everlap, but we've got to evolve into the new realm.
[41:19] Speaker 1: That is okay, Mark, As I resulted this, I realized
[41:23] Speaker 1: that my vitamin B twelve is down. Therefore I had
[41:25] Speaker 1: to take a supplement, but no one told me. No
[41:29] Speaker 1: one said Mark at the time, Hey mate, you're doing this,
[41:33] Speaker 1: you should take something a bit like take anybodys Yeah,
[41:37] Speaker 1: take anybody. Okay, take some asset office, or take some yoga.
[41:40] Speaker 1: Do something kills everything, Yeah, yeah, it kills everything. So
[41:44] Speaker 1: they do do that now. But businesses like yours, to me,
[41:50] Speaker 1: they're a gold mine. They are the rivers of gold
[41:53] Speaker 1: because people have to solve issues, but they've got a
[41:59] Speaker 1: supplement as a result of whatever it is doing to
[42:01] Speaker 1: solve issues. And supplements like you can you can have
[42:06] Speaker 1: a vitum, you can get a vitin B complex, seeing
[42:09] Speaker 1: but we've moved way past those things. Now we're gaining
[42:13] Speaker 1: into your territory. You're doing methylated B products and so
[42:21] Speaker 1: maybe you know because I know people who still go
[42:23] Speaker 1: to the chemists and buy B complex tablets, which by
[42:26] Speaker 1: the way make me thought wrong an a voment. What's
[42:29] Speaker 1: what is the difference between that and a methylated B complex.
[42:33] Speaker 2: Well, it really is just about how well your body
[42:36] Speaker 2: can recognize and use that form of that B vitamin.
[42:40] Speaker 2: And you had Gary Brecker on here as well, He's
[42:44] Speaker 2: a big methylationian guy. He is also a big guy
[42:46] Speaker 2: for methylated B vitamins because you can have methyl collbaloman cyanocobalaman,
[42:53] Speaker 2: which is an industrial product from si.
[42:55] Speaker 1: Cyanide, which is crazy. So by the way people take it,
[42:59] Speaker 1: you can buy.
[42:59] Speaker 2: It because it's a it's an active that you can have,
[43:02] Speaker 2: right like that. It's just but science hasn't really caught
[43:05] Speaker 2: up or or thinking hasn't really caught up to where
[43:08] Speaker 2: you should be. And yeah, it costs a little bit more,
[43:11] Speaker 2: but in the in the scheme of things, jeez, what
[43:14] Speaker 2: would you rather be taking?
[43:15] Speaker 1: Do you guys have a method add B product supplement?
[43:18] Speaker 2: We include methylated bees in our products, right and I
[43:23] Speaker 2: also include a methyl donor in our NAD boosters simply
[43:30] Speaker 2: because of the process that's involved in NAD recycling and
[43:35] Speaker 2: how that works. So methylation is very important. I'm a
[43:38] Speaker 2: big fan of Gary Brucker's work, so.
[43:41] Speaker 1: And I think that people need to understand and what
[43:44] Speaker 1: I'm trying to get out here as this conversation is
[43:46] Speaker 1: that you're being aware of your supplement needs is I
[43:52] Speaker 1: think a lot of people have become aware of that,
[43:55] Speaker 1: but then it comes down to being you know we've
[43:58] Speaker 1: talked about, you know, making sure that somehow the product
[44:00] Speaker 1: is regulated, which is the best way to do it,
[44:02] Speaker 1: using Australian products, but so you don't get crap in
[44:05] Speaker 1: there or harmful for stuff in there. But then if
[44:09] Speaker 1: you want to make sure it works, you want to
[44:11] Speaker 1: make sure that I'm bothering him to spend money in
[44:14] Speaker 1: these things. I'm bothering him to have to take it
[44:15] Speaker 1: every day, morning, night, whatever it is, and I want
[44:19] Speaker 1: to make sure it's I want to optimize its availability.
[44:22] Speaker 1: So we're talked about buy availability, but in terms of
[44:26] Speaker 1: things like methylation or methylated products, particularly in the B
[44:31] Speaker 1: group and all these enhancements, I don't think most people
[44:37] Speaker 1: who are because I know guys have been taking this
[44:39] Speaker 1: stuff for ten years, they just still take the same shit.
[44:42] Speaker 1: They're not keeping up with changes. So how rapid are
[44:47] Speaker 1: the changes happening at future lab and how are you
[44:50] Speaker 1: guys keeping up with those change regimes?
[44:53] Speaker 2: Yeah, a good question. Things change a lot and all
[44:58] Speaker 2: the time. Sometimes they'll change and it's not a benefit.
[45:02] Speaker 2: You have to kind of understand it. Is it really
[45:05] Speaker 2: making a difference or is it just another way of
[45:06] Speaker 2: differentiating a raw material? Yeah, a little bit of marketing,
[45:09] Speaker 2: that's right, And and I think a lot of it
[45:12] Speaker 2: has to do with being staying in touch with suppliers
[45:16] Speaker 2: out there and where research is heading and being across things.
[45:20] Speaker 2: There are some really great events around the world. Is
[45:24] Speaker 2: one called supply Side West that's the biggest in the US,
[45:28] Speaker 2: massive for raw materials and where beds is that hill
[45:31] Speaker 2: it's held in Las Vegas Career and then there's a
[45:35] Speaker 2: cool when what Tommy isn't on it's a it's right
[45:37] Speaker 2: around late October October, right. There's another one called Vita
[45:40] Speaker 2: Foods and that's in May and that's in Barcelona, and
[45:44] Speaker 2: that that leverages all the best stuff from Europe. Right,
[45:48] Speaker 2: So you kind of have the convergence of these two
[45:51] Speaker 2: kind of areas. What what what technology is coming out
[45:54] Speaker 2: of the US, what's coming out of Europe? And and honestly,
[45:57] Speaker 2: China is doing a lot. You know, we talk about
[46:00] Speaker 2: China and regulations and quality issues and things like that,
[46:04] Speaker 2: but some of the technology that's coming out of there
[46:06] Speaker 2: is actually quite quite good.
[46:08] Speaker 1: It's got great technology and good stuff. But you've just
[46:10] Speaker 1: got to make sure you get the good stuff exactly.
[46:12] Speaker 1: That's the issue. You don't know where and most punters
[46:15] Speaker 1: don't know, which takes me brings me back to saying,
[46:17] Speaker 1: we're better off trusting someone like you guys to curate
[46:20] Speaker 1: this stuff and taking it out and getting future love
[46:23] Speaker 1: to do the hard work instead of mere trying to
[46:24] Speaker 1: do the hard work on the internet and trying to
[46:27] Speaker 1: work out who's real and who's not real and who's
[46:29] Speaker 1: bullsheting me, it's better off to some of my future
[46:32] Speaker 1: lab an Australian organization who fits within the regular environment
[46:36] Speaker 1: in this country and where you can you probably even
[46:38] Speaker 1: use Australian tech as well, which is pretty bloody good.
[46:44] Speaker 1: And from my point of view, if you're a punter
[46:47] Speaker 1: out there and you are trying to supplement your health
[46:51] Speaker 1: for longevity, say again for health span space, for me,
[46:54] Speaker 1: you're better off dealing with Australian organization who who's on
[46:57] Speaker 1: top of all these changes. And by the way, it's
[47:00] Speaker 1: a really interesting thing you said, because some stuff is
[47:02] Speaker 1: just trending bullshit and not proven. You know, you might
[47:06] Speaker 1: as well just throw down the toilet because when you
[47:08] Speaker 1: buying masks, it's just crap.
[47:10] Speaker 2: What people masks for?
[47:12] Speaker 1: Yeah, where the fuck? And yeah, like it's really interesting,
[47:15] Speaker 1: but like, but but some people. Someone will tell someone else, oh, man,
[47:19] Speaker 1: and I feel great and my cheeks are glowing, and
[47:22] Speaker 1: you know, I get a heart on every morning or
[47:24] Speaker 1: something like that. But like and then Eron goes, oh yeah, wow, wow,
[47:27] Speaker 1: we should I got to take that. And the person
[47:29] Speaker 1: talking to does knows no jack ship and they're probably
[47:33] Speaker 1: also taking silas every day and that's the reason why
[47:36] Speaker 1: it's worked. And you know, I mean like they don't know.
[47:38] Speaker 1: There's no there's no scientific proper control group or anything.
[47:42] Speaker 1: Nothing is going on and there's no one doing the
[47:44] Speaker 1: research behind this. I do. Before I wrap up, there's
[47:47] Speaker 1: a couple of things I want to hit on. So
[47:48] Speaker 1: I do have one of your products your enemy. And
[47:52] Speaker 1: apart from the name being really confusing and n I'm
[47:55] Speaker 1: sure it stands for something something to do with nick
[47:58] Speaker 1: a tinder mine or someone who is. But we've talked
[48:04] Speaker 1: about rezerotol, We've talked about what was that filben beverine,
[48:09] Speaker 1: But let's talk about some of the more popular stuff
[48:11] Speaker 1: like NMN and na D and because there are things
[48:14] Speaker 1: that people talk about everywhere at the moment.
[48:16] Speaker 2: Yeah, So we spoke about kind of getting that flywheel
[48:19] Speaker 2: started between that that virtuous cycle with longevity, enzymes and things,
[48:24] Speaker 2: switches and things that happen in your body. Na D
[48:27] Speaker 2: is the first part of that. So we naturally make
[48:30] Speaker 2: n A D all the time. It's NAD is a
[48:33] Speaker 2: coenzyme or a biological nutrient that that we need. If
[48:38] Speaker 2: we don't have enough NAD, we cease to exist. It's
[48:41] Speaker 2: involved in over five hundred different processes and there are
[48:45] Speaker 2: a few different ways that NAD is made. You can
[48:48] Speaker 2: make it naturally actually through trip to fan, but only
[48:51] Speaker 2: about one percent is made that way in the body.
[48:54] Speaker 2: In the body, the majority of it is made through
[48:57] Speaker 2: this pathway called the salvage pathway, right, which which But
[49:01] Speaker 2: what it does is it takes nicotinamide, just regular nicotinic
[49:05] Speaker 2: acid or nicotinamide B three and it and it converts it.
[49:11] Speaker 1: So you should just so nicotinamide is bottom B three. Yeah,
[49:14] Speaker 1: that's right, that's just so. Yeah, it would ordinarily be
[49:18] Speaker 1: in your B complex. Yep, that's right. Sweet.
[49:21] Speaker 2: So it converts nicotinamide into na D with an enzyme,
[49:26] Speaker 2: and this enzyme is is called n A m p
[49:28] Speaker 2: T n A MPT. Problem is, when you get older,
[49:34] Speaker 2: n A MPT stops working well, So the enzyme doesn't
[49:39] Speaker 2: get activated as much, and so it's it becomes more
[49:42] Speaker 2: and more difficult to take that nicotinamide that we all
[49:45] Speaker 2: get enough of in our diet every day into n
[49:48] Speaker 2: A D. And when your body uses n A D,
[49:51] Speaker 2: it it actually strips off one of the molecules and
[49:55] Speaker 2: then recirculates nicotinamide. So it's actually a really really great
[49:59] Speaker 2: system natural But the problem is that again when you age,
[50:04] Speaker 2: and you can you can by the way, you can
[50:06] Speaker 2: improve an A MPT through things like hot and cold therapy,
[50:14] Speaker 2: as whole baths and high intensity interval training. Those things
[50:19] Speaker 2: can increase an A MPT. So if you can do that,
[50:23] Speaker 2: you can you can keep going right, But many of
[50:26] Speaker 2: us don't do that, And there are other NAD precursors,
[50:32] Speaker 2: this other pathway that NMN operates on and NR operates on.
[50:38] Speaker 2: So NMN stands for nicotinamide mononucleotide and n R stands
[50:43] Speaker 2: for nicotinamide ribicide. Both of these are products and ingredients
[50:49] Speaker 2: that you can take to boost your levels your endogenously
[50:53] Speaker 2: produced levels of NAD. So it helps to increase and
[50:56] Speaker 2: it works. Uh, we we've tried it. We've there's there's
[51:01] Speaker 2: a really good testing facility here actually in Australia in
[51:04] Speaker 2: Melbourne that do NAD testing, and we looked at internally, Hey,
[51:09] Speaker 2: if I take this, if I take that, what's my baseline?
[51:12] Speaker 2: What am I increasing it to as in real blood?
[51:15] Speaker 1: Yeah, our blood.
[51:17] Speaker 2: And so recently NMN actually as of the tenth of
[51:21] Speaker 2: December of this year and last year, sorry and men,
[51:25] Speaker 2: what became allowed to be sold in a listed medicine
[51:29] Speaker 2: in Australia.
[51:29] Speaker 1: Wow.
[51:30] Speaker 2: Before then you could only get it through that concept
[51:32] Speaker 2: of personal use exemption. You really don't know what you're getting.
[51:35] Speaker 2: So now we have the first.
[51:38] Speaker 1: I'm gonna say this is one of the first Australian
[51:40] Speaker 1: based products.
[51:40] Speaker 2: It's the very first product launched to the market that
[51:44] Speaker 2: contains NMN in a quality controlled source where we've tested
[51:49] Speaker 2: it la raw material, we've tested after granulation, we've tested
[51:52] Speaker 2: the finish good and it's you know, kind of goes
[51:57] Speaker 2: through that whole approved pathway to to give you the
[52:00] Speaker 2: confidence in using it. So NMN is you know, you
[52:04] Speaker 2: talk about the difference between NR and NMN. Why is
[52:06] Speaker 2: NMN so good? Because we've had NR for a long time.
[52:09] Speaker 2: NR needs to be converted to NMN before it gets
[52:13] Speaker 2: converted to NAD MN when you take it in your
[52:17] Speaker 2: gut gets converted directly to NAD and we and we
[52:20] Speaker 2: know this now. We used to think that it used
[52:23] Speaker 2: to have to disassociate it and actually would go back
[52:26] Speaker 2: to NR that gets converted back, but a study in
[52:29] Speaker 2: twenty nineteen found that it actually in the gut, So
[52:33] Speaker 2: taking it as a supplement can boost your levels of
[52:35] Speaker 2: NAD directly.
[52:37] Speaker 1: And it's really important, you know, that's a really important point. NAD,
[52:41] Speaker 1: as you say, is using many parts of the biology.
[52:46] Speaker 1: But as we get older, one of the things common
[52:49] Speaker 1: complaint is lack of energy or lack of energy call it.
[52:54] Speaker 1: Let's call it that. But it then, of course NAD
[52:59] Speaker 1: is extraor neurally important in the mitochondria process of producing
[53:04] Speaker 1: at zine triphosphate, like the thing that bursts energy, I think,
[53:10] Speaker 1: where we get energy from the cleave of phosphate molecule
[53:13] Speaker 1: off the ATP and it gives us energy straight away.
[53:17] Speaker 1: But to get there, there's this long, long ass process
[53:20] Speaker 1: which happens really quick, but it's a long ass process,
[53:22] Speaker 1: chemical process which involves NAD. And if you're not so,
[53:26] Speaker 1: I think what you're saying, because I'm glad you explained
[53:28] Speaker 1: it to me because I think what you're saying is
[53:29] Speaker 1: if you don't have the ability to produce the NAD
[53:34] Speaker 1: and therefore you as a result of the reason why
[53:37] Speaker 1: you might be less energetic. There could be other reasons,
[53:39] Speaker 1: mitochondrial reasons, but one of the reasons you can eliminate
[53:43] Speaker 1: is making sure that you have enough of this in
[53:45] Speaker 1: your system, like early doors to produce the NAD to
[53:49] Speaker 1: make that process occur.
[53:50] Speaker 2: That's right, produce the NAD, activate the certuin, certuins activate
[53:54] Speaker 2: a MPK. MPK activates to make more let's just get that,
[53:59] Speaker 2: you know, talk about get that flywheel started.
[54:01] Speaker 1: Yeah, with an amen. So and in terms of the
[54:04] Speaker 1: stituens are you talking about, then perhaps taking as veratrols
[54:10] Speaker 1: vertol couldn't the boody word for them, resveratrol. So like
[54:13] Speaker 1: if you're taking two supplements, probably two good supplements just
[54:16] Speaker 1: coming out of this as resveratrol in terms of energy.
[54:19] Speaker 1: And by the way, and I did use other things
[54:22] Speaker 1: in your brain like at verious other places, but just
[54:26] Speaker 1: two things coming out of this. If I could just
[54:27] Speaker 1: you know, like if people could just take two good
[54:29] Speaker 1: things away from everything that listen to or watch, if
[54:32] Speaker 1: you could take resveratrol and their men which is now
[54:36] Speaker 1: approved in Australia as of December last year. May well
[54:40] Speaker 1: be that you're going to get just just better processes
[54:44] Speaker 1: within your system or enhance your current processes.
[54:46] Speaker 2: It's a great start. And obviously lifestyle nutrition.
[54:51] Speaker 1: All those the things have to be presumed, because we're
[54:55] Speaker 1: not suggesting you can take your stuff and you sit
[54:57] Speaker 1: on your ass all day and do nothing. You've got
[54:59] Speaker 1: to train, You've got to try to do you know,
[55:02] Speaker 1: heat therapy if you can, and coal bars or just
[55:04] Speaker 1: jump in the ocean if you can, or you know, run, dance, yoga,
[55:10] Speaker 1: whatever it is. Walk, you know, sleep properly and properly.
[55:14] Speaker 1: You obviously got to have good food. You can't just
[55:17] Speaker 1: take these things because you know, in the old days
[55:19] Speaker 1: when I was a young guy, vitamin B complex and
[55:23] Speaker 1: vitamin C. What you do is you get on the
[55:26] Speaker 1: piss on Friday night and you just completely crank yourself
[55:31] Speaker 1: and you wake up the morning. I take a vitamin
[55:33] Speaker 1: B supplement and some vitamin C and I'll be okay.
[55:37] Speaker 1: And of course, or you end up doing puking because
[55:40] Speaker 1: your guts good because you just destroyed yourself overnight. But
[55:44] Speaker 1: it's amazing how the world has changed, and we are
[55:48] Speaker 1: changing at a really rapid rate. So at Future Lab,
[55:52] Speaker 1: are you guys discovering a faster pace of change in
[55:56] Speaker 1: terms of supplements than we've ever seen?
[55:59] Speaker 2: In no question, I think just the convergence of interest
[56:04] Speaker 2: in the world is leading people to research more, to
[56:06] Speaker 2: understand more. You know, the quantum technologies now, you know,
[56:11] Speaker 2: quantum computing. Looking at even just how you've identified different molecules,
[56:17] Speaker 2: it was so interesting. There's a there's a quantum computer
[56:20] Speaker 2: company that I was working with that will that will
[56:25] Speaker 2: take a molecule docking station. Like let's say you wanted
[56:28] Speaker 2: to reduce d H T in your scalp to reduce
[56:31] Speaker 2: you know, kind of la alopecia. Yep, Well they they've
[56:36] Speaker 2: they've found Okay, this is the molecule. They scanned all
[56:40] Speaker 2: the different photochemicals, all the different extracts, and they found okay,
[56:45] Speaker 2: if you take this and you extract that, that will
[56:48] Speaker 2: dock well to help to reduce DHD. You know, like
[56:52] Speaker 2: it's just the amount of you know, leveraging technologies that
[56:56] Speaker 2: were historically reserved for pharmaceuticals are now being to do.
[57:00] Speaker 2: Company staceutical companies now being applied to our industry and
[57:05] Speaker 2: just accelerating the pace of innovation and understanding about how
[57:08] Speaker 2: these things work and making sure that things are efficacious.
[57:11] Speaker 1: And what your range, So just give us a bit
[57:16] Speaker 1: of a clue on your range of products future libs
[57:18] Speaker 1: unto a minute.
[57:19] Speaker 2: We've tried to hit all the key aspects.
[57:22] Speaker 1: Right, a bit three for them, but like so nad res.
[57:26] Speaker 2: Viatrol, berberine, so metabolic helts are too an activation, nad boosting.
[57:32] Speaker 2: But then also cognition is really important. Stress is important.
[57:36] Speaker 2: Stress stress yet, so we've got a great ash Waganda
[57:39] Speaker 2: and Holy Basil extract, both clinically trialed for adaptogenic stress
[57:46] Speaker 2: reducing kind of acute stress.
[57:48] Speaker 1: Right.
[57:49] Speaker 2: We've got a great collagen a blend of the best
[57:54] Speaker 2: collagen peptides from Julida for a whole body kind of
[57:58] Speaker 2: health for tendons and skin, skin and bones and muscle.
[58:04] Speaker 2: And we've got we've got products for testosterone, actually fantastic
[58:11] Speaker 2: testafin product that was that's manufactured by the company that
[58:15] Speaker 2: I mentioned just in North Sydney. Products for perimenopause as well.
[58:20] Speaker 2: So really trying to hit all.
[58:21] Speaker 1: The hemage SKUs would you have I.
[58:24] Speaker 2: Reckon We've got about seventeen to twenty.
[58:27] Speaker 1: Right, And where do I buy these things? Like you
[58:29] Speaker 1: at chemist shops.
[58:31] Speaker 2: Chemist warehouse, you can go a future lab dot com to.
[58:33] Speaker 1: The just go online as well, and you guys do
[58:36] Speaker 1: the delivery, etcetera.
[58:37] Speaker 2: We do you?
[58:37] Speaker 1: Yeah? So? And what's the future hole for you guys?
[58:41] Speaker 1: I mean, where are you thinking for the future? Like
[58:44] Speaker 1: what I mean, la, Let's say look ten continue, let's
[58:47] Speaker 1: say look five years. At the speed at which things
[58:49] Speaker 1: are changing. Do you think that you know, these supplements
[58:53] Speaker 1: actually will help us live a little longer and a
[58:55] Speaker 1: little better.
[58:56] Speaker 2: I think it will. I think it will, And I
[58:58] Speaker 2: think the future is more of really understanding what's going
[59:01] Speaker 2: on inside, so functional testing and a more personalized approach.
[59:05] Speaker 1: Well, that's important part the personalized approach, because what works
[59:09] Speaker 1: for me might not work for you well, and what
[59:13] Speaker 1: works for me might actually be bad for you, you know,
[59:16] Speaker 1: like you could have some you know, you could have
[59:19] Speaker 1: some reason why you shouldn't be taking something, or rather,
[59:22] Speaker 1: do you think that there will be at some stage
[59:25] Speaker 1: better integration between let's call it our clinicians, our doctors,
[59:28] Speaker 1: and our supplies let's call it our supplemental supplies.
[59:32] Speaker 2: Yeah, Look, there are some great technologies right now that
[59:35] Speaker 2: are about to break into the Australian industry that will
[59:40] Speaker 2: enable the construction of an individually formulated product and able
[59:45] Speaker 2: to do that at scale. And so it's just a
[59:47] Speaker 2: matter of time before we can get the testing in
[59:50] Speaker 2: understanding what's needed from an individual basis and be able
[59:53] Speaker 2: to deliver something specific to that individual at the right
[59:56] Speaker 2: milligram doses and the right ingredients to.
[59:59] Speaker 1: Right the day is and one Mark, take this in
[1:00:01] Speaker 1: the morning, take this at night.
[1:00:03] Speaker 2: Exactly, Yeah, specifically designed for you.
[1:00:05] Speaker 1: Yeah. It's because in other words, and I think Peter
[1:00:08] Speaker 1: talks about it, most of these guys to personalized health, precision,
[1:00:13] Speaker 1: precision medicine, like actually right down to the minutia, like
[1:00:18] Speaker 1: you know what works for you Mark, based on everything
[1:00:21] Speaker 1: we've examined. I know that Stephen Leewood Everlab is trying
[1:00:25] Speaker 1: to get down to this territory, like get into this territory,
[1:00:29] Speaker 1: and a lot of it starts with baselines and knowing,
[1:00:33] Speaker 1: you know, like doing proper blood pants and knowing everything
[1:00:36] Speaker 1: about you. I mean, like were you knowing everything about you?
[1:00:39] Speaker 1: More importantly, not the doctor. The doctor should know everything
[1:00:41] Speaker 1: about you, but you should know everything about you too.
[1:00:44] Speaker 1: You should be able to get access to and I
[1:00:46] Speaker 1: know that ever Labs built, for example, a dashboard where
[1:00:50] Speaker 1: at anytime you go and look at all these things,
[1:00:53] Speaker 1: like you know your blood test results and everything else,
[1:00:57] Speaker 1: and you know it's that has to be your starting point,
[1:01:02] Speaker 1: and that needs to be shared with nearly needs to
[1:01:04] Speaker 1: be shared with whoever's supplying you.
[1:01:06] Speaker 2: Sometimes to the concept of test, treat test, I think
[1:01:09] Speaker 2: that's yeah, we're going.
[1:01:10] Speaker 1: To get Testing is important, continual testing because you might
[1:01:14] Speaker 1: take it and it might do nothing exactly, or it
[1:01:16] Speaker 1: might overdo or something. You need to take it and
[1:01:19] Speaker 1: test again and then then just keep rinse and repeat, rints,
[1:01:24] Speaker 1: repeater until you get to the sweet spot. Yeah, the
[1:01:28] Speaker 1: sweet spots where we're all going to try and get
[1:01:30] Speaker 1: to in the end. Well, I think that's pretty exciting.
[1:01:34] Speaker 1: It must be feel pretty good to be able to
[1:01:36] Speaker 1: be involved in something that is current but also potentially
[1:01:41] Speaker 1: can change people's lives.
[1:01:42] Speaker 2: It doesn't feel like work for me. Yes, you know,
[1:01:45] Speaker 2: I love doing what I do.
[1:01:45] Speaker 1: Because you can apply it yourself as well too, Like
[1:01:47] Speaker 1: you can sort of say, well, hang on, I'm interested
[1:01:49] Speaker 1: in this, particularly as you age your age. We all age. Unfortunately,
[1:01:55] Speaker 1: every moment we're aging and and what do you subscribe
[1:01:59] Speaker 1: to the just finally, but Neil, do you subscribe to
[1:02:02] Speaker 1: the view that aging is should be treated as a disease,
[1:02:05] Speaker 1: which is what David Sinclear does. Yeah, I mean, look
[1:02:10] Speaker 1: a treatable disease.
[1:02:11] Speaker 2: Yeah, I think says it's about slowing down the car
[1:02:15] Speaker 2: roll like driving towards the end of the cliff. It's
[1:02:18] Speaker 2: about slowing that car.
[1:02:18] Speaker 1: Down because the clif's going to come, no matter what's.
[1:02:20] Speaker 2: Going to come. But you know, it'd be nice to
[1:02:22] Speaker 2: enjoy the scenery a little bit more.
[1:02:24] Speaker 1: Yeah, that's pretty interesting. I mean, I actually I'm practical
[1:02:27] Speaker 1: enough to subscribe to the David Sinclair thesis or hypothesis
[1:02:33] Speaker 1: is that aging is a disease as they're designed to.
[1:02:38] Speaker 1: I won't use the word kill us, but it take
[1:02:40] Speaker 1: us to our final destination. And the game is to
[1:02:45] Speaker 1: understand that, accept that, and do something about it. Yeah.
[1:02:48] Speaker 1: And you know, like your supplemented regime and understanding how
[1:02:51] Speaker 1: your body works and what's important for your body. I
[1:02:54] Speaker 1: think it's the first part of the process. So I
[1:02:57] Speaker 1: really appreciate you coming in representing future lab today, which
[1:03:01] Speaker 1: is a part of the Melrose Group. Neil Mercado, chief
[1:03:05] Speaker 1: Science Officer of Melrose Dash Future Lab. Thanks very much,
[1:03:09] Speaker 1: Thank you very much. Mark

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