# Props to the Future: feat. Jean-Pierre Clercin (Commercial Head - APAC , ATR)

An episode of [The Indian #AvGeek](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1759764345), 6 Jul 2025, 59 min.

Audio: https://anchor.fm/s/f945ecd8/podcast/play/105061987/https%3A%2F%2Fd3ctxlq1ktw2nl.cloudfront.net%2Fstaging%2F2025-6-5%2F95928985-8bbe-b3eb-98fe-c774b7525b6a.mp3

🎙️ In this riveting conversation, Jean-Pierre Clercin, Commercial Head of ATR in APAC, talks us through the evolving turboprop narrative in India and beyond. From new orders at the Paris Air Show 2025 to insights on regional connectivity, we dig into how ATR plans to serve a fast-growing Indian market projected to need 200+ ATR aircraft. JP candidly reflects on the U.S. market and the dominance of RJs, IndiGo, Fly91, ATR’s monopoly status post-Q400, and whether final assembly lines in India are on the cards. We also explore supply chain advantages, ecosystem building with universities, and the company’s vision for India's regional aviation over the next 10–15 years. There’s laughter, nuance, and even a flashback to ATR’s first pitch to IndiGo. Vishal Mehra - @vishal1mehra

## Transcript

[0:07] Hello, hello my fellow geeks. Welcome to episode #44 of the
[0:13] Indian App Geek. My name is Vishal Mehra.
[0:17] Joining us today on the podcast is Jean Pierre Claeson, the man
[0:22] who's been connecting communities across Asia Pacific
[0:25] with ATRS iconic turboprop aircraft.
[0:29] With a Masters degree in Space Technology and a career spanning
[0:33] flight simulators, aircraft sales and aerospace innovation,
[0:38] JP is the ultimate aviation Swiss Army knife.
[0:43] From founding aviation tooling companies in Canada to
[0:46] spearheading Atr's commercial sales in the bustling skies of
[0:51] Asia, this man knows more about short runways and long term
[0:55] strategy than most airline CEO's know about their own in flight
[1:00] menus. Welcome to the Indian app geek
[1:03] JP. Hello Vishal, Thank you for
[1:05] having us. Let's start from the very
[1:09] beginning. How did you fall in love with
[1:11] Aviation JP? That's, that's a long story.
[1:15] No, I mean, very simple really. I mean, I'm, I'm not 100%
[1:19] French. I'm half French, half Peruvian
[1:23] and, and I grew up in Africa. And so every summer, almost
[1:28] every summer, I was taking the plane to go back to France or go
[1:32] to visit my family in, in Peru, the, my mother's family in Peru.
[1:36] And so from when I was a very little kid, I mean, travelling
[1:41] by plane was the way to connect with family and with loved ones,
[1:44] you know, and, and, and, and kind of flying with this
[1:48] beautiful big iron birds and, and connecting with family was
[1:53] something that, you know, I mean, really kind of resonated
[1:56] in me. And so from when I was a very
[1:57] little kid, I mean, I, I wanted to be in aviation.
[2:00] I mean, smelled the kerosene in the morning.
[2:02] And yeah, I mean, that's that's how, you know, I was interested
[2:06] in everything that flies. And how did the opportunity at
[2:10] ATR came along? Did turboprops always interest
[2:15] you? Turboprop, I mean for a very
[2:18] interesting, I would say coincidence, you know, I mean,
[2:22] I've been part of my journey as a, as a, as a, as a traveller.
[2:27] I mean, in Peru, I mean, at the time you have a lot of the
[2:30] turboprops playing, you know, to go to connect with some of the,
[2:34] of the more remote areas. When I was in Madagascar as
[2:37] well, I mean, they, they had a Tri mean 72500.
[2:40] I remember, I mean, it wasn't, they were making a big, big
[2:42] thing out of it. And so there was already, I
[2:45] mean, a big, a big connection, But I mean, it the, the, the
[2:49] path that brought me to ATR was a bit more unusual is that, I
[2:53] mean, when I started my career, I worked with a, a gentleman
[2:57] called Tieri Casamion and I moved to, to Singapore.
[3:01] I mean that the, the first time around and he, he was working
[3:05] very closely with, with ATR all the time to, to support the
[3:08] operators in the region of in Asia Pacific.
[3:10] And, and that opened the door. And then for some reason that I
[3:13] moved to a company doing flight simulators and they were
[3:16] themselves as well as working a lot with, with ATR.
[3:19] And so I mean, all that I mean led me, I mean to eventually
[3:22] work for ATR. So all the all, all the roads, I
[3:27] mean, lead to Rome, you know, so somehow.
[3:31] It's been couple of weeks since the Paris Air Show now.
[3:34] You were able to secure multiple orders across airlines like Uni
[3:38] Air and JSX as well as some undisclosed customers.
[3:43] There was an unveiling of your updated market forecast as well.
[3:47] About 2600 aircraft over the next two decades.
[3:52] If I'm reading it right, India alone is expected to need about
[3:57] 200 + 80 hours. What's your assessment of the
[4:02] market, JP? I'm, I'm very bullish, I mean on
[4:08] the on the ATR because I think it's a great tool to connect
[4:13] smaller areas, smaller communities and and it has
[4:17] strong environmental credentials as well.
[4:21] And I think that's what we need. I mean, if you want, I mean to
[4:24] foster more connection, if you want people to, to, to connect
[4:28] with each other, I mean go visit each other.
[4:30] I mean, we need them in this kind of including inclusive
[4:34] means of transport. I think the ATR is an
[4:37] interesting proposition. It, it does scatter to a few
[4:40] different markets. I mean you have the markets
[4:42] which are more yes. So public service, you know,
[4:45] essential services if you want. And, and there are small portion
[4:48] of our activities where there is no other way to go to these
[4:52] places than than the aircraft. And, and you have a few in
[4:55] India. I mean you look at Northern
[4:56] India, I mean it's quite complex to get otherwise.
[4:58] But if you look at some of the areas as well in Indonesia or,
[5:02] or in the Pacific, I mean, you would have the same kind of
[5:04] logics or, or Brazil in, in some remote area of the Amazonia.
[5:09] Then you would have the connecting aspect where, I mean,
[5:13] you want to connect your hub with shorter routes, you know,
[5:16] with shorter distance airports. And, and you have a few people
[5:20] like that, you know, I mean, I would say you can talk about
[5:23] Cebu, for instance, you can talk about Air New Zealand, you can
[5:28] talk about Indigo to them, a few that do use the ATR to connect
[5:33] the hubs, you know, with, with shorter, shorter from shorter
[5:37] distance. And then you have a, a very
[5:40] strong emerging or not emerging, but a strongly, a strong growing
[5:45] market, which is the point to points.
[5:48] And, and I think that's where I mean, we see the most promising
[5:52] perspectives. And in in India in particular,
[5:55] but as well in the US, it is the, what we call the regional
[5:58] mobility is the ability to connect point to point, you
[6:01] know, in secondary cities. And, and we see in, in the US
[6:06] and, and India has have different underlying logics.
[6:09] I mean, if you want in India, it's very much about, I mean,
[6:14] when you call ground infrastructure not being where
[6:17] they should be, you know, or, or not growing fast enough.
[6:20] That's just what the, what the, what the population is expecting
[6:24] or, or what can be done, you know, in a, in a certain amount
[6:27] of time. And that's, I mean, underpins
[6:30] the, the requirements of, of regional aviation because then
[6:33] we can we, what, what I, what I say usually is that when you
[6:36] have a, a runway, you don't need a highway.
[6:39] And so with two runways, I mean, you can connect 222 small cities
[6:43] and you don't need to be in the bigger way in between.
[6:46] In the US it's probably a bit different is over time smaller
[6:50] city have lost connectivity by air and an aircraft like the ATR
[6:55] can restore that that link. And so we see that very big
[6:59] need, you know, I mean overall emerging and I think the ATR
[7:03] because of its custom operation can deliver quite an attractive
[7:07] proposition and and offer an inclusive way of travelling by
[7:11] air. I think what's fascinating in,
[7:14] in, in India, which goes beyond probably what we see in other
[7:18] markets is that 90% of the trips, So every trip that you
[7:26] have in India, I mean if you take all of them, 90% of them
[7:30] are made under 550 kilometres. So only 10% are above 500, five,
[7:37] 150 kilometres. And that's where I mean most of
[7:40] the of the aviation today is concentrated.
[7:43] I mean it's longer routes, but if you look at what the ATR does
[7:46] very well, it's connects shorter routes of below 550 kilometers.
[7:50] And so the, the, the reservoir if you want of activity in India
[7:55] is immense because of that. That was 90% and the market
[7:58] share in that segment for aviation is only 3%.
[8:01] So we have a, a huge runway, I mean no pun intended.
[8:04] I mean, there to, to, to grow and we are very enthusiastic.
[8:09] There's a lot of enthusiasm on our side.
[8:10] When you look at, you know, the way that the government is
[8:12] supporting that segment, the way that there is a lot of people
[8:15] looking at it, you know, very, very keenly.
[8:17] And, and that's where I think to be fair, I mean, 200 aircraft, I
[8:21] mean, sounds conservative in my view because I think the market
[8:24] is probably 2-3, maybe 4 times bigger.
[8:27] I mean, of course that's potential, right?
[8:30] So that's where I mean we we also need to be conservative in
[8:33] the way where we can communicate on this.
[8:36] I just want to latch on to one of the points you mentioned
[8:39] about the American market. As of recent years, regional
[8:43] jets dominate the US regional aviation market accounting for
[8:50] about 90% of capacity. Turboprops used to be the
[8:56] backbone of short haul flying, now make up I think less than
[9:00] 10% of the fleet and operations most regional jets.
[9:06] From your friends at Embraer, do you see ATR getting into the RJ
[9:14] space? No.
[9:16] So it's, it's an interesting comment you did.
[9:19] I don't think the shot hops are not made by jets.
[9:22] And today the shot hops are made by car in the US That's where I
[9:26] mean, there's been a big drive in terms of loss of connectivity
[9:30] in the, in that country. Because the, the true competitor
[9:34] of, of an ATR or two of prop at large is the ground transport.
[9:40] Because it's, it's about the time it takes for you to go from
[9:43] point B to point B and the affordability of that, that
[9:46] probability. So some people are when you have
[9:50] the US 23400 kilometers, people will just take a car.
[9:54] If you compare a regional jet and an ATR, I mean anything
[9:58] below 400 nautical miles, 500 nautical miles could maybe 4
[10:02] nautical miles. Let's keep it at that.
[10:04] I mean, hands down the Tropop will do a better job because of
[10:09] the operating costs. And that has to do with there's
[10:12] no black magic in that. There is no great, you know,
[10:15] advantage of the, of the, of the TR or, or great science is just
[10:20] technology of the jet versus the technology of the Tropop.
[10:24] Every flights, every cycle, I mean cost a lot of money on the,
[10:28] on The Jets, right? Because you have to go up and
[10:32] then you cycle and then you go down.
[10:34] When the turbo pop, it's question of, of, of time in
[10:38] terms of the, the flight time. And so the shorter your flights
[10:42] when it comes to jets, the more expensive it gets per
[10:45] kilometers. And that's where at one point, I
[10:47] mean the turbo pop becomes much better.
[10:49] And that's why we see 400 nautical miles usually.
[10:51] I mean that kind of crossover points, that's where I mean for
[10:56] me, I mean there's no, the competition is really about, I
[10:59] mean the, the, the ground transport and, and I don't think
[11:02] it's a competition because you have 9997% of the market share
[11:06] usually. So it's just for me a reservoir,
[11:09] an opportunity, I mean to get some more market into the ATR.
[11:12] It's it's a blue ocean essentially.
[11:17] Right. I was speaking with the CEO of
[11:20] Fly 91 back on the show. Yeah, great guy.
[11:26] He was telling me about his experience with the Atrs from
[11:29] his Kingfisher days about a month back.
[11:33] I was speaking with Abhijit Dasgupta, the head of network at
[11:36] Indigo. He again very appreciative of
[11:39] Atri. Did ask him, by the way, about
[11:43] the ATR versus Embraer, you know, dual and where of course,
[11:49] is trying to make some moves in the Indian market.
[11:52] And we'll see what eventually happens.
[11:55] There have been rumours about Indigo placing orders for some
[12:01] more ATR aircraft. There were rumours before the
[12:04] Paris Air Show. Of course, things have
[12:07] drastically changed due to various reasons since then.
[12:11] The number floating around that time was 30 to 50 aircraft, I
[12:15] think. Do you see that coming soon?
[12:19] I think, you know, I mean I'm not, I'm the same way.
[12:21] I'm not going to comment about, you know, other OEMs. I'm not
[12:24] going to comment about customers.
[12:26] I think you should, you should ask them where they are at.
[12:29] I think in the markets you look at all the, the existing actors.
[12:33] I think they are potential targets for us and when you look
[12:36] at the size of the markets, I mean they are clearly targets
[12:38] for us and people we talk to. I mean, so today we are engaged
[12:42] with a a number of active discussions with existing
[12:46] operators, with aspiring operators and newcomers as well.
[12:51] So and but I won't delve into specifics, you know, you'll
[12:57] understand that. Sure, no problem.
[12:59] Over. Over.
[13:00] A beer one day. I mean, we can do that.
[13:03] Well, I look forward to that beer.
[13:06] For now, I will go back to your market forecast.
[13:09] India is is expected to surpass Indonesia to become Atrs largest
[13:16] global market before 20-30. If and when that happens, how do
[13:22] you plan to serve the market and what are your investment plans
[13:26] for the country? So, you know, I mean, we've been
[13:29] present in India for now over, over over 25 years, close to 30
[13:34] years. I think the first operator was
[13:36] Jet Airways and then we had Erdecan Kingfisher alliance.
[13:43] There's a fair, fair history, or as I call it, a destiny already
[13:50] together between ATR and, and, and India.
[13:56] And so over the years and with the fleet over there, there's
[13:59] been a stronger ecosystem growing pilots, engineers,
[14:03] technicians, flight simulators and Morrow.
[14:06] And we've been blessed with truly, I mean, great partners in
[14:10] the country that have grown alongside with us over the
[14:14] years. And so today, I'd say, and we
[14:17] even have an office as a matter of fact in the country.
[14:21] And that has been there I think for the last 20 years on me.
[14:25] And so we've been really, I mean investing already and, and very
[14:29] much present in the markets as well along with the ecosystem
[14:32] for years. Now looking at the ambition that
[14:36] we have 70 aircrafts today, hopefully 200 more.
[14:42] I mean, if you ask me, over the next 5-10 years, I mean, this
[14:46] ecosystem will have to grow and we'll have to support it, not
[14:51] necessarily with direct investments, but, you know,
[14:54] making sure that the, the, the different actors can't develop
[14:59] themselves. And, and yeah, we need, I mean,
[15:04] we won't go beyond that. I think, you know, if I look at
[15:07] the, the quality of the, the, the people, I mean the quality
[15:11] of the, the, the, the technical background engineers, the
[15:15] quality of the, of the universities, I mean suppliers,
[15:19] I mean, there's much more things that we can do.
[15:21] And of course, we are exploring a few, a few of these areas.
[15:27] I mentioned them in the more universities, I mean, I
[15:30] mentioned suppliers. I mean, those are things that,
[15:33] you know, we, we, from considering the situation
[15:36] overall, I mean, maybe there are things that, you know, we, we,
[15:38] we need to, to, to delve further.
[15:41] Aviation has been outlined by the government as a focus area
[15:45] and something critical for the overall economy's growth.
[15:50] Accordingly, there have been different schemes facilitated by
[15:53] the government to push it. We were just talking about your
[15:56] market forecast. Do you see a possibility of a
[16:00] final assembly line in the country to address that demand?
[16:05] I think, I mean, I wouldn't be so specific because I don't
[16:08] know. I mean, you know, I mean file
[16:10] is, is a complex undertaking. A complex.
[16:14] Why? Because I mean, file is, is just
[16:17] a building where you put together an aircraft.
[16:19] But beyond that you have supply chains.
[16:23] You need to build all the paths that come together with an
[16:26] aircraft. You need to build some of the
[16:28] system, you need to bring some of the system in and all that, I
[16:31] mean works only if you have certain amount of, of aircraft
[16:34] that come together. So I mean, today, I mean, I
[16:38] would say that's would be before being able to have any
[16:41] discussion on that. That would be, I mean discussion
[16:42] we have to to to assess. Today we are wrapping our mind a
[16:48] bit more about the existing ecosystem to understand, I mean
[16:51] who are the actors, what can be done, but nothing specific.
[16:56] All right. We were just talking about RJS.
[16:59] I want to understand from you how ATRS turboprops uniquely
[17:04] address the needs of these thin routes compared to jets or other
[17:10] regional aircraft. Where is that advantage that
[17:14] ATRS bring in? I think there are probably there
[17:20] are a few areas. I mean, the first thing is what
[17:22] I told you, I mean, and I commented about the technology
[17:25] Cyboprop versus jets, they have very different features.
[17:31] The Tuboprop excels in shorter routes, OK.
[17:36] The Tuboprop probably won't excel on longer routes.
[17:40] So you ask the Tuboprop to do 2000 kilometers routes.
[17:44] I mean it it take a jet, right? I think they should if we do a a
[17:48] much better job at that. But if your network serves
[17:54] routes that are 500, five, 150 or below, I mean, that's, I
[17:58] would say that's where I mean, I would say the, the limit is, I
[18:02] think the Turopop will outperform any other platform on
[18:05] the market. And that's that's where I think
[18:09] in India, I mean, but it's true as well in, in the US, in
[18:12] Europe, in many different parts of the world, is that if you
[18:15] want to irrigate the country with connectivity, with routes,
[18:21] with going to do small places, do do small villages, do small
[18:25] communities, then it's very much like the vascular system.
[18:30] You don't need big veins. You know what I mean, to go, I
[18:33] mean, close by, right, you need small little vessels that bring
[18:38] this thing. And that's where I'm in the
[18:39] Etihad gas. It irrigates really, I mean from
[18:41] a very capular level the, the countrysides and the different
[18:45] areas of the country with, with an effective and, and dependable
[18:49] connectivity. And because of it's cost of
[18:53] operation and it's cost per trip, it makes it affordable.
[18:57] And I think that's what you want.
[18:58] I mean, if you want to develop connectivity, it's an
[19:01] affordable, accessible and and and convenient connectivity.
[19:08] We all know about Indigo, we know about Alliance and we know
[19:11] about Fly 91. Are you seeing interest from new
[19:17] start up airlines in the country JP?
[19:21] We do, we do, we do. I mean, it's so I mean, of
[19:24] course you have the big, the big players and, and we'll talk to
[19:28] them and, and they've been very busy buying aircraft as you've
[19:33] seen long haul, I mean single eye.
[19:36] We've been talking to existing small operators.
[19:40] But of course we've been working to the all the new, the new
[19:43] players that want to come into the fields.
[19:45] And it's been a very exciting space in that segment.
[19:49] I think new newcomers, backed by some, some of them by big
[19:56] corporation, see the, the, the interest in getting in that
[19:59] space because they see that it's, it's, it's, I wouldn't say
[20:02] it's a Greenfield because there's already a lot of
[20:04] capacity and a lot of, a lot of action.
[20:07] But see, I mean, the same thing that we do, which is a huge
[20:11] potential. So I mean, coming, coming in now
[20:13] is the right moment because you can still build up a fairly good
[20:16] story besides the big players. And I think that's where we,
[20:20] we've been. I can count 5-4 or five, I mean
[20:26] start up that we've been talking to actually and and on, on those
[20:31] I would say 2 are fairly advanced in terms of
[20:34] discussions. That is brilliant to know.
[20:38] Best wishes to you and your team as you guys go forward in that
[20:42] process. Walk us through how a typical
[20:47] aircraft order happens, the average time taken for an
[20:52] aircraft to be built, and what the delivery process is like.
[20:56] JP. So on the on the, on the
[21:00] campaign, I mean it, it varies a lot, OK, so I've, I've had
[21:05] campaigns that lasted 3 months. So the the shortest one and the
[21:10] longest campaign I've been probably started four or five
[21:14] years. OK.
[21:14] So that give you a pretty, pretty wide range.
[21:20] I I think the, the, the moment where I would say that, you
[21:24] know, once the the requirements for original operation is set
[21:27] up, I mean that's where I mean people start to set up some
[21:30] scenarios about their, their, the network, I mean what they
[21:33] want to do and what is the division that they have for the
[21:36] company. I mean that's where we start to
[21:39] engage about simulating operating costs, network,
[21:45] network performance. And from there I mean they will
[21:48] do their own financial modelling and that's where I mean they
[21:52] will have a sense of what to do and and how they can structure
[21:56] their the acquisition. And from there, I mean, yes, you
[21:59] would start to kind of get into contractual discussions, but
[22:03] that's the beginning of the story really.
[22:04] Because once you've done that, then you need to find a way to
[22:06] fund the aircraft, which is another interesting part of the
[22:08] business. And of course build them, which,
[22:13] you know, at the end there is a very wise man that worked at, at
[22:17] Arbus, Mr. John Leahy said that nothing stopped until somebody
[22:21] sells something. And so the production then
[22:26] sells, you know, in start to at the time.
[22:29] So that's where I mean, this job is kind of a bit at the, at the
[22:33] cornerstone, if you wish, you know, of the, of the, of the
[22:37] organization and the, and our, our story.
[22:40] And when it comes to production, I mean, about there is, I mean,
[22:44] you need time to configure the aircraft.
[22:46] And so usually, I mean, you ask, I mean, a year and a half, I
[22:51] mean, to get, you know, the configuration ready.
[22:52] I mean, so, but then what happens and would be interesting
[22:56] if one day you come to France, I mean, we'll be happy to show you
[22:58] the, the assembly line so that you have a look.
[23:00] You know what we do there. But we, we bring together the
[23:04] the wings, the fuselage, the engines, the landing gears, and
[23:09] then we put all that together, we fit the cabin with paints and
[23:14] we make sure that no, all, all of that is working properly all
[23:17] together. And yeah, that's, that's what
[23:20] happens. And then you have it once it's
[23:23] ready. I mean, it goes to what we call
[23:24] the flight line where I mean, the customer comes and, and
[23:28] check the aircraft flies it to make sure that it's what he
[23:32] wants and, and to his expectations.
[23:34] Obviously there's a lot of regulatory, I mean requirements,
[23:37] but I mean, they also have the entitle to, to check it
[23:39] themselves to make sure it's it's working properly, as I
[23:42] said, and then to sign a piece of paper.
[23:44] They say it's theirs, of course, after they paid, but that's
[23:48] usually how it goes. But if you have a chance one
[23:51] day, I mean, again, let us know. I mean, if you come to Europe, I
[23:54] mean, we'll be very happy to show you It's, it's, it's not
[23:59] something that we see everyday, right.
[24:00] So I mean, I have to say when I joined ATRA few years back, I
[24:03] mean, that was so exciting to see all those aircraft there,
[24:05] you know, I mean, people to come in to take, to take delivery,
[24:08] you know, so it was to face buzzing.
[24:10] It's quite nice. Oh, I'd absolutely love to.
[24:13] In fact, I've been lucky enough to visit Toulouse and Hamburg
[24:18] for Airbus and to Boeing Seattle factory.
[24:22] So yeah, I'd love to plan my next visit around the ATR
[24:25] factory visit. Please.
[24:28] So when you do let me know, OK, I'll, I'll be.
[24:30] Your guide. Absolutely, JP, thank you very
[24:33] much for the offer. So usually whenever airlines,
[24:37] ordinary aircraft, whether it's a narrow body or a wide body,
[24:42] there is always competition, right?
[24:44] You have A versus B in all those duals, but it's so interesting
[24:51] that the entire turboprop market is up to you now, right up to
[24:57] ATR. The Q 400 is nowhere to be seen.
[25:02] Well, let me correct myself. The Q 400 is not manufactured
[25:06] anymore. It's seen in quite a few
[25:08] markets. But I wanted to ask you is, is
[25:11] selling a turboprop aircraft in no almost monopoly, if I may say
[25:17] that, is that easier or more difficult?
[25:20] I think it's more difficult so, and I wouldn't say monopolistic
[25:25] because people always have the choice.
[25:27] I mean and, and, and I think people have the choice of buying
[25:31] an ATR or not doing anything because the fact is, as I said,
[25:36] the market is being catered for by so fast transport, so.
[25:42] I love how you said people have a choice of buying an ETR
[25:45] aircraft or doing nothing. Or you're not doing anything in
[25:52] the sense yeah, like they, they, they can decide not, not to buy,
[25:55] right. So I mean not to buy, not to buy
[25:57] into regional edition. And when I talk about regional
[26:01] edition, that's why I mean, I'm talking again about just shorter
[26:04] routes. And, and so it, it, it becomes a
[26:09] difficult discussion about, you know, I mean, how do you value
[26:11] an aircraft in this case? The easy way is to say, OK, you
[26:15] take the, the price or the cost and then you add a margin, but
[26:18] market doesn't work like that. So, you know, I don't know if
[26:22] you're familiar with that, but we have what we call the
[26:24] residual values. It's, it's a way to assess the
[26:28] value of the aircraft after five years or 10 years and, and gives
[26:33] a view also from the financials on how to structure their own
[26:35] funding. And that gives a sense usually
[26:38] of what the market is. And so, but you know, one of my
[26:43] first bosses, I mean, he said something very interesting.
[26:45] He says, I mean, the price of something of an investment is a
[26:48] function of how much money you can make with it.
[26:50] And I think that's, I mean, where the, what they call the
[26:53] British, the, the proof of the pudding is in the eating, right?
[26:56] So, and so that's where I mean the that's, that's where I mean
[27:00] it becomes difficult discussion because I mean we always want
[27:04] more and, and customers always want less, you know, in terms of
[27:07] pricing. But I have to say because of the
[27:10] positioning we have, because of the potential in the markets
[27:15] these last 12 months, those discussion have been a bit
[27:18] easier because I think we've been doing a lot of efforts, you
[27:21] know as well on the on the markets, a lot of efforts as
[27:23] well on the operating cost and that's kind of bearing fruits
[27:26] so. Yeah.
[27:29] And I think there's something to be said about the intent.
[27:31] ATR has shown while many global OEMs face long delivery delays,
[27:38] ATR has indicated shorter lead times for Indian customers.
[27:43] That definitely needs to be appreciated.
[27:46] How is ATR managing its supply chain to ensure timely
[27:50] deliveries so. Traditionally and that has been
[27:56] a feature of the ATR markets, our customer don't plan a lot
[28:00] ahead. So there's been both a blessing
[28:03] and A and a curse. We, we, for a long time, we had
[28:07] people trying to buy aircraft for the next 12 months, which
[28:10] has been a bit difficult to, to, to do.
[28:13] But that means as well that, you know, we're not exposed maybe to
[28:15] the same kind of difficulty in terms of assessing production.
[28:19] And, and I think the, the requirement being so buoyant,
[28:23] we've been very proactively trying to see and assess how we
[28:26] can manage the ramp up. I think the, the key question
[28:30] here because of the, the strong demand is, is how do we manage
[28:33] the ramp up and how do we manage that visibility as well to
[28:36] support customers in the shorter run.
[28:39] And so I mean, that's, that's to be fair.
[28:42] I mean the, the, the question that a lot of people much
[28:44] smarter than me are, are looking at today in the organization
[28:48] production procurements, our leadership team to see how we,
[28:52] we raise to to higher levels. Last year, I think we were at 35
[28:58] aircraft or 36 and you've seen we've stabilized that over the
[29:03] last couple of years, probably this year as well, because we
[29:07] want to be ready, I mean, with more robust, you know, with more
[29:11] robust suppression to be able to re step that production.
[29:14] And, and we see that, you know, I mean, it's gathering and
[29:17] gaining momentum. So that's where I think in the
[29:19] next 2627, I mean, we'll be able to, to, to be more, how can I,
[29:27] how can I say, have more ambition for that, that, that,
[29:30] that ramp up. So we we aim at getting back at
[29:33] 6070 aircraft. I mean on this.
[29:37] Do you consult with Indigo on their aircraft deployment plans,
[29:42] whether it's new routes or increasing frequencies on
[29:46] existing routes? So as ATR, we, we do a lot of
[29:55] this at large, not only with Indigo, I would say, I mean
[30:00] with, with most of our customers, or at least the one
[30:02] that you know, I mean requested or the largest one, because we
[30:08] see, we see their success as the fabric of ours.
[30:13] And so we really, I mean, want to share as much knowledge as we
[30:16] can with, with them. And, and because of what I
[30:20] talked about earlier about the, what we call the original
[30:23] mobility, we've been investing a lot of time and a lot of energy
[30:27] to understand a bit how I mean, what are the modes of transport,
[30:32] what people are aspiring to in terms of connecting connection,
[30:37] where are the people travelling? And, and where I mean, there is
[30:40] a sense to deploy capacity. And Indigo is part of those
[30:44] people we have a discussion with.
[30:46] And so we have modelling and we, we share with them in all
[30:49] transparency in what we see on the market.
[30:52] And it's for them, them to choose.
[30:53] But at least I mean, they have our perspective on the on the
[30:56] market. And it's, it's a very fulfilling
[31:01] exchange because they bring as well a lot of value in terms of
[31:04] revenue, in terms of validating or invalidating some of the
[31:08] assumptions we have. And it's a very much a
[31:11] collaborative effort. Of course, we don't tell them
[31:16] what to do. Of course they don't do
[31:18] everything we we suggest. But you know, from that
[31:22] exchange, from that friction, there is traction happening in
[31:27] movements. And I think it's, it's, it's
[31:29] making us both core, I mean, to be sure.
[31:31] The knowledge that you shared with Indigo or with Fly 91 or
[31:35] with any other airline, are those global best practices and
[31:39] do you run regional or local models and share that knowledge
[31:44] with them? We have models specific for
[31:47] India pertaining to the fact that it's the biggest market for
[31:51] us or potential. So we have invested a fair
[31:54] amount of money and resources into understanding better the
[31:58] modes of mobility in the country.
[32:01] I think that's why as well. I think the discussion with the
[32:03] Mocha is, is quite interesting. I mean, we are, we, we, for
[32:08] instance, starting to understand a bit better the impact of the
[32:11] new upcoming airports. You know, the, the government is
[32:14] talking about AT additional AT airports coming up being
[32:18] reactivated or new airports or and, and that gives us with some
[32:24] credential to talk about about this specifically in India.
[32:28] Of course we talk about best practices, but I mean, if stock
[32:31] best practices for revenue management, I don't think we
[32:34] have a lot of things to bring. But if you talk about network
[32:37] that knowledge about mobility because of this investment we've
[32:40] done, I think we have some stuff to say.
[32:42] But those best practices, for instance, when it comes to you
[32:46] go, but I mean more generally with all our customers can be
[32:48] about maintenance, about reduction of operating costs.
[32:52] I mean, those are the kind of things that you will typically
[32:53] share on, on a wider level. And if you talk about demand
[32:56] perspective, not for perspective, I mean it's very
[32:59] today specific to India. And have there been any best
[33:04] practices that you have picked up from Indian carriers and
[33:09] shared or implemented with your other airline partners across
[33:13] the world? We didn't go as a matter of
[33:15] fact, I mean they in many respects they are benchmark in
[33:21] my mind. So I mean, so I look after Asia
[33:23] Pacific. So we have about 60-70 operators
[33:27] and in many aspects Indigo is a benchmark in terms of
[33:30] utilization, in terms of anticipation, in terms of
[33:33] planning and and have to give it to the team.
[33:37] They have a very sharp and very an excellent group of people
[33:41] running the operations. And so we tend to, to, to, to
[33:47] leverage on that expertise that they have that some of the, the
[33:50] things that they do to, to try to share with the, with other
[33:54] operators that might not have the same scale or the same
[33:57] access to the same expertise. And, and that's very useful.
[34:01] And, and, and I think as a, as a family or as a community of ATI
[34:06] operators, I mean all, all those people are growing thanks to
[34:10] people like like Indigo as. Per your models and research,
[34:15] what's the sweet spot in terms of duration and distance for an
[34:21] ATR aircraft to really shine through?
[34:24] JP Yeah, that's. That's I mentioned, I mean
[34:28] earlier, I think everything below 400 nautical miles like
[34:32] 550 kilometers would be where the ATR mean is unbeatable.
[34:38] And and the reason again, it's as I said, not about black magic
[34:41] or whatsoever. It's the fabric of the
[34:43] technology of the Tuopo versus what the jet is.
[34:46] And so that's where we are I think really shining.
[34:51] And and that's if you look at on average our operators, I mean
[34:55] use the aircraft in that, in that segment.
[34:57] I think from what I recall, the Indigo uses the ATR on average
[35:04] at 310 or 320 nautical miles. I think if you look at Air New
[35:10] Zealand is 250 or 260 nautical miles.
[35:14] Some people like in Tahiti, they will be probably closer to, to
[35:17] 400 nautical miles. So you see that range in
[35:20] between, I don't know, 250 to 400 that will be, and it's below
[35:26] because I mean, I, I'm pretty sure below 100 nautical miles
[35:28] will be better as well. But at one point, I mean, when
[35:31] it's too short, then the car really outshines the ATR, right?
[35:35] So, but if if you look at the collective transports beats in a
[35:42] way, I mean in areas where you don't have a lot of grand
[35:45] infrastructure or, or but more generally when you where you
[35:49] have the need of connectivity, I mean that's offers a lot of
[35:53] possibility because then you start to put people together in
[35:56] the same place, right. So I mean you, you save a lot on
[35:58] fuel, you save a lot of capital cost and by using the that kind
[36:04] of aircraft. Let me make you do a flashback,
[36:08] OK? I want to know what your pitch
[36:12] was to Indigo when you guys won the 1st order from them.
[36:17] Can you help share some of that with us?
[36:21] I think the discussion it went, so we were talking with them for
[36:26] a while, OK, and trying to convince them of the merit of
[36:31] having a job of job fleet. And, and I think at the time
[36:37] Indigo, I mean, it was 22,017 was a fairly different beast.
[36:40] I mean, they have already, I mean, kind of grown.
[36:43] They were, but I think they were a different beast.
[36:46] And, and I think, you know, I mean that that's, I think what,
[36:51] what, what, what made it is the fact that they were really were
[36:54] looking at connecting secondary cities and they were feeling
[36:58] very comfortable with the fact that the wooden scheme was being
[37:02] rolled out by the government. And, and I think that trigger
[37:06] the whole decision on on their mind is that it was a pretty
[37:09] safe kind of bet. And the incumbency on one side,
[37:15] the operating costs on the other, the, the, the, the, the
[37:19] shape of the network kind of was becoming no brainer on the set.
[37:23] And to be fair, we, we had also had a time to, to very good
[37:29] sales people in, in the position.
[37:31] One of them is a gentleman called Guillaume Huertas, who
[37:34] was taking care of India at the time in Indigo.
[37:38] And another gentleman was so a bit more famous in the industry
[37:42] is called Christian Scherer, who was the CEO of VTR all the time.
[37:46] And yeah, he's a, he's a magician, you know, So he, he
[37:50] made the deal. I mean, together with the, and
[37:52] then they had a, they did a great job there actually.
[37:55] So. This is when Willy Bolter was
[37:59] around at Indigo. No, I think he was Rakesh at the
[38:04] time. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[38:06] He was the the one at the at the at the helm at the time.
[38:12] Cost efficiency is a strong selling point for ETR in India,
[38:17] especially considering the price sensitive market that we have.
[38:21] How do you ensure pricing and operating cost advantages remain
[38:25] attractive for Indian airlines? I know we have spoken about how
[38:29] your aircraft under 500 kilometers, they're unbeatable
[38:33] in terms of their value proposition, right?
[38:36] Are there any other factors involved as well that really
[38:39] help your case? I think the technology again
[38:43] because of the the cycles and the shorter of the cycles, I
[38:46] mean it helps. So it doesn't have an impact on
[38:49] maintenance cost of the engines, it has an impact on the fuel
[38:52] burn. And if you look at the
[38:54] equivalent and equivalent size aircraft with the jet that will
[38:59] be fitted with the jet air, jet engine, you would talk about
[39:04] probably $800 more an hour just on fuel, right, on that kind of
[39:09] segments that gives you a sense on the magnitude of you know how
[39:13] much it cost. So that's I mean the biggest
[39:17] discriminant. But as I said, the competition
[39:20] is not The Jets. So that's where for me, it's a
[39:23] bit of a moot points. I mean, the question is, how do
[39:25] we make it attractive for the guy that takes the car?
[39:28] How do we make it attractive for the guy that wants to take the
[39:31] train? And so of course, I mean, you
[39:34] have all the features of the, the offer.
[39:37] I mean, the, the frequency, the, the, the convenience when it
[39:41] comes to the, the, the, the, the sheer cost.
[39:43] I mean, there are other aspects. It's, but the cost of funding,
[39:47] it's about the maintenance costs.
[39:49] And, and so those are, are areas where it's, it's a constant
[39:54] fight and, and war for us to make sure we deliver them in the
[39:57] best class base for our customers with suppliers, with
[40:02] the, the financial community. And I say war, I mean, it's not
[40:06] anagonistic. I think it's, it's usually
[40:08] something we have to do with them because I mean, we cannot
[40:12] force them to do these things. But it's a war collectively, I
[40:15] mean, we're, we're fighting to make sure that we can deliver
[40:18] the best cost base on the market.
[40:20] And so engines, landing gears, idiotics.
[40:27] And you saw that in the recent year.
[40:29] I mean, we've improved the, the engine together with Friday
[40:32] Whitney, we, we rolled out what they call the Friday Whitney 127
[40:36] MXT, which provide, you know, more time on wing, which allowed
[40:41] 20% better economics overall on the, on the madness coast.
[40:44] As a matter of fact, it also delivers 3% improvement in the
[40:49] on the on sugar. We've escalated some of the of
[40:54] the interval for maintenance, which is also has an impact on
[41:00] the operating costs. So all that contributes, I mean
[41:03] to make to make the aircraft more more affordable and deliver
[41:07] better cost base for each flight place and tickets.
[41:10] Now on the more on the software perspective I mentioned as well
[41:14] about the funding costs. I mean, I think the fact that,
[41:17] you know, we have so many aircrafts with so many customers
[41:20] in so many countries is an appealing perspective in terms
[41:23] of funding, funding, funding risks.
[41:26] And that provides as well an interesting way, I mean for
[41:29] financial to look at it. So I mean regularly.
[41:32] I mean, I think as a matter of fact every year, I mean the ATI
[41:35] is voted as the, the, the best aircraft assets in regionals
[41:39] because of its resilience. You know, so I think it's the
[41:43] Air Finance Journal that that published that, that class more.
[41:49] I don't know how you say that in English.
[41:53] There are other perspective as well.
[41:54] I mean in terms of utilization, I mean we tend to support our
[41:57] customers that so they can increase utilization of the
[41:59] aircraft. So all that contributes to
[42:01] deliver, I mean the best cost based on the market.
[42:04] I was alluding to my conversation with Manoj Chako
[42:07] earlier and during that conversation, one of the
[42:10] challenges he mentioned was slot availability at major airports.
[42:15] When I spoke to CE OS of major airports, they obviously denied
[42:20] that. But it's very well known that at
[42:23] busier airports, slots are a premium commodity.
[42:27] Airport authorities often prioritize jets with higher seat
[42:31] capacity and yield per movement. Now, ATRS 70 seat configuration
[42:38] may not justify the same slot as a 180 seat A320 or a Boeing 737
[42:45] in terms of revenue or passenger throughput.
[42:49] Is there possibly a role that ATR can play in evangelizing
[42:54] airports on behalf of your airline clients, especially the
[43:00] smaller airlines? So we don't do that and that's a
[43:03] good idea. Maybe we should be more
[43:06] proactive there. I, I think the issue is acute
[43:11] in, in one of, on the larger hubs in Delhi, Mumbai, because
[43:17] even you look at Bangalore or Hyderabad, I mean, I think we
[43:20] have a, a good presence there, you know, so maybe we should
[43:24] spend more time explaining. And, and as a matter of fact, we
[43:27] see some markets where the ATR is present in, in large
[43:30] platforms like London Heathrow, for instance, and they have
[43:35] specific approaches. And so they don't, I mean, take
[43:38] that much space at the end. And of course they do take the
[43:42] space of a, of a jet. So a lot of The Jets.
[43:45] So I mean, that can have an impact, you know, on the, on
[43:49] the, on the revenue of the, of the airport.
[43:51] But the truth is it's minor on one side and then I think it
[43:56] suffers a lot of connectivity on the other.
[43:58] And then airports, you know, wealth and airport value is just
[44:03] so function of how many cities it connects and how many
[44:05] communities it can pull together.
[44:07] So I think this is where there's probably an argument that we can
[44:09] build there. But if I take a step back and,
[44:14] and I look at what the ATR does it, it doesn't this intensify
[44:20] the traffic in, in larger hubs, because what we do is connect
[44:24] secondary cities. And so the hub today, that is
[44:28] what we call the metros right in, in India has lot of
[44:34] connectivity, you know, around the world and in, in the
[44:37] country. But if you look at the tier one
[44:40] cities, I mean they are not necessarily, I mean slot
[44:43] constraints and those could be connected with Tier 2 or Tier 3.
[44:46] And So what we allow is in if you wanted to go from a Tier 2
[44:52] to another Tier 2 or a Tier 1 to a Tier 2, sometimes you have to
[44:55] go through a big hub. What we allow is have direct
[45:00] connectivity in between because if I go back to what I said
[45:02] earlier about the mobility in the country, 90% is below 400
[45:07] nautical miles. And so that's the kind of value
[45:10] proposition is that by this intensifying the traffic in this
[45:14] platform, we can have an impact to reduce congestion.
[45:18] We can have an impact on making the the connectivity more
[45:21] effective. When I asked you earlier about
[45:24] FAL, you had mentioned besides that there are so many other
[45:28] areas ATR is trying to get into India.
[45:31] I've read about your interest in collaborating with Indian
[45:34] universities and supporting local aviation talent.
[45:39] Can you elaborate on your plans for developing the local
[45:43] ecosystem beyond just aircraft sales?
[45:46] Yeah. So I think 1 support is one of
[45:49] them, obviously. But as I said, we have Mr. OS,
[45:51] we have training centers and I think this ecosystem is growing
[45:54] organically with the, with the fleet and and I think with
[45:58] Destiny, we're outlining, I mean in the in the country, I think
[46:01] this is going to keep growing. Maybe we'll have to be more
[46:05] pushing in, in getting some additional capacity.
[46:08] Then of course there is the question of supply chain.
[46:12] I mean, I remember having this discussion with with a
[46:16] journalist, I forgot his name. It was a very interesting
[46:19] discussion because it's a bit higher.
[46:21] What do you think about supply chain and and what's happening
[46:25] worldwide? I think the situation to the
[46:27] supply chain is the perfect moment to think about ways to
[46:31] develop, you know, I mean, other sources, you know, that's
[46:35] probably, I mean, the, the kind of moment that you need to look
[46:38] at it. And, and at that moment, when we
[46:40] talked about it, I mean, we're talking about the, the space,
[46:44] the space program of India, which made sense.
[46:48] You know, this, this probe on the moon for a fraction of the
[46:53] budget of Europe. And, and, and that's why I mean,
[46:57] I remember having that discussion with him is that I
[46:58] think this is very promising. If you have smart people like
[47:02] that, that can be impactful, quick and, and affordable.
[47:08] I mean, that's the people you want to work with.
[47:10] That's the people you want to write the next chapter with.
[47:15] And, and that has been inhabitating me since in the
[47:19] sense that I do believe that, you know, this is where we
[47:21] should go. And, and so brings for me to the
[47:24] third path is that I mean, I want to work with smart and, and
[47:28] brilliant people. I want to work with people that
[47:31] understand this perspective. So I think this is where I think
[47:34] university come into play. And, but beyond engineering,
[47:37] beyond maybe the, the talented people we can get for business,
[47:40] I think if you want to be truthful and, and, and answer to
[47:45] the right part of the market, you need to better understand
[47:48] it. And, and so while we have
[47:50] modeling and we have invested in that, I think I would be quite
[47:52] interested in understanding how I don't know if they are
[47:56] institute of transport, transportation, geography of
[47:59] India or, or policy like policy politics, social studies or
[48:05] politics studies in India, that that could give us that their
[48:07] perspective. Because the ATR is not only an
[48:11] aircraft that we sell and then we pitch and then you, you, you
[48:14] buy ten of them or hundred of them.
[48:16] I think it's, it's, it can support creating the fabric of
[48:19] the country. It can support, you know,
[48:21] establishing sovereignty in areas that are sometimes
[48:24] challenged. And I think we have a lot to
[48:28] learn and a lot to build together in that sense.
[48:30] And I think that's where working with these people, I mean, would
[48:33] be very useful because we can then work together.
[48:37] And and that's where I'm talking about destiny because I don't
[48:39] think it's about just a pitch. You know, it's writing that page
[48:42] together and moving forward. I mean, because quite frankly as
[48:45] I said it and if you ask the question soon is going to be the
[48:48] biggest market by far. That's very well said, JP.
[48:53] If a globally respected firm such as yours can play a part in
[48:57] nurturing aviation talent in the country, I think it'll be
[49:00] fantastic. So many people I talked to in
[49:03] the industry, the number one future facing challenge I hear
[49:06] is talent, whether it'll be from the regulatory side for
[49:10] airports, airlines or other roles within the aviation
[49:13] industry in India, talent is a major issue and I think there
[49:18] can be a great role that ATR can play nonetheless.
[49:22] You had mentioned something about new airports opening some
[49:25] time back. The aviation footprint in the
[49:28] country is expanding big time, right?
[49:32] If I can ask you what is Atrs vision for its role in India's
[49:38] aviation ecosystem over the next 10-15 years?
[49:42] I mean, I believe that at the end our role is to support not
[49:46] only the question of aviation, because I come back to what I
[49:49] said, I don't think the debate is about aviation only.
[49:54] It's about the regional mobility.
[49:56] It's about what is the strategy, you know, of the governments in
[50:00] terms of mobility, intercity, connectivity, footprints, you
[50:05] know, in the regions develop sovereignty.
[50:07] Have any questions? And, and I think that's where we
[50:10] can play a role. And so if, if anything, I mean,
[50:14] I would like to elevate the debates beyond that is that I
[50:17] mean, and, and, and work with the the, because I don't think
[50:21] there is a ministry of transport per SE.
[50:23] I think it's the ministry of the the, the the the transport
[50:25] ministry. And then there's the Ministry of
[50:28] Civil Aviation, Civil Aviation and there is Ministry of
[50:31] Shipping. So the shipping and the rail as
[50:33] well. I mean, so there is.
[50:34] There is always four different ministries, yes, correct.
[50:37] And and so I think we want to look at.
[50:39] That you know from a broader perspective is that aviation,
[50:43] aviation is complementary. I mean, aviation at the regional
[50:46] level is complementary to the roads, is complementary to the
[50:48] rail and they do very different and distinct mission.
[50:52] And, and, and So what I what I want, I mean, is to be part of
[50:57] that, right? I mean, for ATR to be to be part
[50:59] of this this discussion. And and and because, I mean, our
[51:03] destiny has been linked in the past with India and I see that
[51:08] going forward is still going to be linked is is make sure we do
[51:12] that step together. I mean, kind of write that next
[51:14] page of that destiny. So there is no limit to to what
[51:19] it means. I mean, it's who knows, maybe.
[51:22] I mean, yeah, like, yeah, craft, I mean they're like like like
[51:26] deeper relationship. Like I mean, I think the market
[51:31] in India is going to be by far, I mean the biggest we have in
[51:33] the in for a year. And finally, JP.
[51:37] Time to get your crystal ball out and maybe some black magic
[51:41] to know the answers. Are there any plans to introduce
[51:49] new ATR models? And what's the future of ATR as
[51:53] we look into the next decade or so?
[51:56] There is one compass. You need to use, it's your
[51:59] customer, I think, I mean you need to make sure that you're
[52:02] truthful to what they want and what they need and, and to be
[52:07] fair, I mean our customers, what they want and what they need.
[52:10] They tell us we want the most affordable aircraft we can get
[52:17] in most markets and so that means affordability in terms of
[52:23] manufacturing, affordability in terms of systems, in terms of
[52:30] so. Availability and.
[52:33] And that's comes with innovation part, right.
[52:36] So and and of course, I think the biggest driver of
[52:42] innovation, innovation is the proportion.
[52:44] So if you look at what could come next is, is what we talked
[52:49] about the evil, you know, I mean, the hybridization of the
[52:52] aircraft eventually having a Prius, you know, I mean flying
[52:57] Prius somehow. And I think this this will
[53:01] probably be the next frontier, I mean, in terms of delivering
[53:04] that kind of fuel bone because it's going to be by by essence
[53:09] lower. And therefore as well, you know,
[53:12] I mean, more respectful of the environment, you know, as well,
[53:15] although I mean, to be fair with, with 700 less than 700
[53:19] kilos an hour, I mean, the ETR today is already even quite
[53:22] frugal. But I think there is ways, I
[53:24] mean to get, I mean, beyond that, you know, once the
[53:26] technology will be ready with the batteries and and stuff,
[53:29] right. So I think that could be, that
[53:31] could be where we want to go. We need to be mindful as well.
[53:36] That's what has done the success of the ATR.
[53:39] It's it's simplicity. It's, you know, I mean, there's
[53:44] this gentleman that worked. I mean, the at the beginning of
[53:48] the program, I mean, he told me, yeah, the the the ATR was
[53:53] designed to be a family by wire. I say that's not what I heard,
[53:58] right. It's like it's pretty hard wire
[54:01] that you have in there. You stay fly by wire because you
[54:03] can fix it with a wire. And, and that's, I mean is one
[54:08] of the, the, the biggest, I would say success is that it's a
[54:11] simple aircraft that you can keep trying.
[54:13] I mean pretty, I mean in pretty remote areas.
[54:16] And, and that's what I think has been the fabric of the success.
[54:19] And that simplicity from the onset of the program has has
[54:23] translated to one of the biggest advantage that the ATR has.
[54:27] It's grounded in an extremely light IO structure.
[54:31] The operating of the aircraft is something that you cannot find
[54:35] today anywhere else. It was designed from the onset
[54:39] to be a very light aircraft, very simple and including, you
[54:44] know, our, the forefathers of ATR.
[54:46] I mean, the people were before us.
[54:47] I mean, they were extremely smart.
[54:49] And I think we, we, we, we should keep, you know, I mean,
[54:51] fruitful to that world to keep it as simple as possible.
[54:56] And, and that's why the, the, the aircraft was designed that
[54:59] way. And it's, it's successfully who
[55:03] five years, I mean, later because of that.
[55:06] And I think this is where you've seen the evolution of the
[55:09] aircraft has been an evolution, not a revolution per SE.
[55:13] And like improvement of the, of the idiotics, improvement of the
[55:17] engines, improvement of the landing gears.
[55:19] I mean, slowly, I mean, we've been injecting more technology
[55:22] to make it more reliable, to make it more dependable, to make
[55:25] it more affordable to operate. And that's I think what we, we
[55:29] endeavour to do in the coming 1015 years.
[55:31] So crystal ball, a constant tranquil, tranquil evolution of
[55:39] the of the aircraft, injecting more and more technology, making
[55:43] it more and more affordable for the customer.
[55:45] Do you believe in SAFF? It's from a very rational.
[55:49] Perspective, yes, I think it's, it's the best way I mean to
[55:52] circulate the carbon. So I mean, you, you extract
[55:55] carbon from the atmosphere, you put it back in the into a stable
[55:59] and liquid form to reject it back.
[56:04] I think before it gets there, I mean, we're going to have to
[56:07] deliver, I mean, much cheaper electricity because you need a
[56:10] lot of electricity to do, to do stuff for the synthesis.
[56:15] But I think unfortunately, I mean, I don't know if you read
[56:17] the, the bit what yet I was saying.
[56:19] I mean, the other day is that affordability and availability
[56:22] is such that I think there's a few more years before we can we
[56:24] can get it widespread used all around.
[56:28] But mandates from governments, mandates from, I mean legal
[56:32] aspects will will support and help us.
[56:35] I mean making that more pregnant around the industry.
[56:39] But I think it's going to take a little more while before we see
[56:42] that actually being more acceptable.
[56:45] Yeah, I don't think. SAF is really the answer.
[56:49] There is not enough of it frankly and scaling up
[56:52] production there has its own challenges.
[56:54] However, I think what Jetzero is trying to do with a blended wing
[56:59] model and you know, just much more efficient, that to me is
[57:04] exciting and and possibly the future of commercial aviation in
[57:08] some ways. But I'm not going to talk to you
[57:11] about that right now. Maybe, maybe we should talk, you
[57:13] know, it'll be interesting. I mean, I because I mean, I, you
[57:16] know, it's nice to be doing the talking, but I mean, you have a
[57:18] wealth of experience and knowledge that I'll be
[57:20] interested to to hear as well, you know, So maybe next time I
[57:23] do the interview for you. Yeah, sure.
[57:26] Done, JP, and thank you Jian, and thank you to you too, of
[57:32] course, JP. So very kind of you to take the
[57:34] time and chat with me and I had a great time.
[57:39] Thank you. I mean Charlotte and.
[57:40] And again, my apologies for Friday and I I really look
[57:45] forward, I mean catching up again having the opportunity to
[57:47] exchange with you if you have any further questions on what we
[57:49] said today. Sometime I speak a bit fast and
[57:53] so I mean don't hesitate and and if you want to catch up or come
[57:58] to Toulouse, you are our guest. Thank you.
[58:02] And that's a wrap on this. High altitude conversation with
[58:05] JP from ATR. I enjoyed that conversation very
[58:10] much. Next week.
[58:13] It'll be the return. Of The Indian Ad Geek and Kunal
[58:16] Jaiswani from Ogilvi will be on the show as usual.
[58:21] Don't forget to subscribe and share this episode of The Indian
[58:24] Ad Geek with your fellow ad geeks.
[58:26] I'm at Vishal 1 Mehra on X always happy to have your
[58:30] feedback. With that, keep your tray tables
[58:33] up, your seatbelts fastened. I wish you well and happy flying
[58:38] my friends.

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