# Sergio Hudson: Michelle Obama, Beyoncé & The Brutal Truth About Black Designers

An episode of [Awf The Record](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1758650789), 7 May 2026, 56 min.

Audio: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2372866/episodes/19135793-sergio-hudson-michelle-obama-beyonce-the-brutal-truth-about-black-designers.mp3

Send us Fan Mail In this episode of AWF The Record, legendary fashion designer Sergio Hudson opens up about the journey from small-town South Carolina to dressing some of the most powerful women in the world, including Michelle Obama, Beyoncé, Kamala Harris, and Kendall Jenner. Known for his razor-sharp tailoring, sculpted silhouettes, and unapologetic glamour, Sergio gets candid about the defining moment that changed everything: Michelle Obama’s viral inauguration look that crashed his website and launched his brand into another stratosphere. He shares the emotional reality of surviving the fashion industry as a Black designer, the business lessons that nearly broke him, and why staying true to his instincts became the key to building a global luxury brand. The conversation dives deep into the hidden economics of fashion, the pressure of dressing celebrities, Met Gala chaos, and the challenges independent Black designers face behind the scenes. Sergio also reflects on Americana, legacy, and why he sees himself as part of a larger cultural lineage rooted in American history. Sergio also gives unfiltered takes on quiet luxury, fast fashion, tailoring, baby hairs, super long wigs, Met Gala prep, and the fashion trends that seriously need to end. Tune in as this episode is a masterclass in vision, resilience, branding, and what it really takes to build an iconic fashion house. KEYPOINTS: • 0:00 Introduction • 3:14 How his mother became the blueprint for the Sergio Hudson woman • 5:16 Defining the “Sergio Hudson woman” and dressing powerful women • 6:42 Moving to LA, celebrity styling, and building the brand • 11:57 Why real garment construction is becoming a lost art in fashion • 13:10 The expensive business lessons that nearly cost him everything • 15:11 Sergio reacts to Hanifa pausing operations and the realities Black designers face • 20:58 The Michelle Obama inauguration moment that changed his life overnight • 33:26 Dressing 18 people for the Met Gala and the chaos behind the scenes • 43:11 Sergio’s hot takes: quiet luxury, tailoring, fast fashion, baby hairs, and long wigs QUOTES: “You can tell when a designer knows how to make clothes and when they just know how to design clothes.” – Sergio Hudson “You’re like the personification of your ancestors’ wildest dreams.” – Jeannette Reyes “The art of being a clothing designer is almost dying.” – Sergio Hudson “A well-fitted outfit always beats an expensive one.” – Sergio Hudson “When the rubber hit the road, the designers of color were the first ones to be dropped.” – Sergio Hudson RESOURCES: Sergio Hudson Website: sergiohudson.com IG: @sergiohudson Keep in touch with Awf The Record: Youtube: @AwfTheRecord Instagram: @awftherecordpodcast TikTok: @AwfTheRecord Mona Kosar Abdi IG | @monakabdi Jeannette Reyes IG | @msnewslady Keep in touch with Awf The Record: Watch on Youtube: @AwfTheRecord Follow us on Instagram: @awftherecordpodcast Follow us on TikTok: @AwfTheRecord Visit our website: www.AwfTheRecord.com Follow Mona on TikTok and IG Follow Jeannette on TikTok and IG

## Transcript

[0:00] SPEAKER_01: Michelle Obama moment.
[0:02] SPEAKER_00: I'm through that moment.
[0:05] SPEAKER_00: Me looking at that screen, I knew everything had changed.
[0:08] SPEAKER_02: Sergio Hudson, the icon of fashion.
[0:10] SPEAKER_02: Sergio Hudson, you know Sergio Hudson.
[0:13] SPEAKER_02: This week, fashion designer Sergio Hudson goes off the record.
[0:17] SPEAKER_01: You can say you dressed that girl because Beyonce, Michelle Obama, Britney Spears, known for his razor sharp suits, sculpted silhouettes, and unapologetic glam?
[0:29] SPEAKER_02: Let's talk about the Met Gala.
[0:31] SPEAKER_02: Last year you dressed 13 people.
[0:33] SPEAKER_00: 18.
[0:33] SPEAKER_02: What?
[0:34] SPEAKER_02: Sergio Hudson doesn't just dress your favorite celebrity.
[0:37] SPEAKER_02: He dresses the woman in charge.
[0:38] SPEAKER_02: Who is the Sergio Hudson woman?
[0:41] SPEAKER_00: A multitude of things, but basically a bottle.
[0:44] SPEAKER_01: And now he's dishing on everything.
[0:46] SPEAKER_01: The grind that almost broke him.
[0:48] SPEAKER_01: Was there ever a time where you were close to closing the doors?
[0:53] SPEAKER_01: The ugly underbelly of the business of fashion and the price black designers disproportionately pay.
[0:59] SPEAKER_01: I wanted to get your thoughts on Hanifa temporarily pausing operations.
[1:03] SPEAKER_00: To be honest, I don't want to get emotional talking about it, but.
[1:06] SPEAKER_01: And how with every stitch, he's expanding what Americana actually looks like.
[1:10] SPEAKER_01: Or American culture.
[1:12] SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
[1:12] SPEAKER_00: I'm the most American you can be.
[1:14] SPEAKER_00: I can actually go visit the plantation my family was enslaved on.
[1:18] SPEAKER_01: You're like the personification of your ancestors' wildest drinks.
[1:22] SPEAKER_01: Oh, and of course, you know we had to get the fashion T2.
[1:26] SPEAKER_01: Is there any celebrity you wouldn't trust?
[1:27] SPEAKER_01: Again?
[1:28] SPEAKER_01: What's one trend that needs to die?
[1:31] SPEAKER_01: I hate five.
[1:35] SPEAKER_02: Good evening, your time now is 552.
[1:37] SPEAKER_02: I'm Jeanette Reyes.
[1:38] SPEAKER_02: And I'm Ona Kosar Abdi, and this is off the record.
[1:41] SPEAKER_02: Not for real.
[1:42] SPEAKER_01: This is off the record.
[1:46] SPEAKER_01: Sergio Hudson, welcome to the group chat.
[1:49] SPEAKER_01: Yay! It is truly our honor.
[1:52] SPEAKER_01: We are so excited.
[1:53] SPEAKER_01: We actually went to your show, of course, for New York Fashion Week.
[1:55] SPEAKER_01: Because I mean, if you're gonna go to a show, right?
[1:57] SPEAKER_01: It's gotta be that one.
[1:58] SPEAKER_02: So it's so good to see you now here.
[2:00] SPEAKER_02: And off the record.
[2:01] SPEAKER_02: Yes.
[2:02] SPEAKER_02: We're so excited to have you.
[2:03] SPEAKER_02: We want to get into so much.
[2:04] SPEAKER_02: So if we bombard you, just say, chill.
[2:07] SPEAKER_02: We slow down together.
[2:09] SPEAKER_02: Um, but yeah, no, let's kick it off.
[2:11] SPEAKER_02: I want to know, just obviously you're from South Carolina.
[2:16] SPEAKER_02: Um, and now you're one of the shows to go see, one of the top designers in New York.
[2:21] SPEAKER_02: How does one do that?
[2:24] SPEAKER_00: Oh, wow, that's a load of question.
[2:27] SPEAKER_00: Um, I think one does that by dreaming, you know.
[2:31] SPEAKER_00: It starts as a four-year-old little boy in the living room watching CNN style with Elsa Clinch and being inspired by Johnny Versace, John Franco Ferre, Patrick Kelly, um, in the late 80s, seeing all these great designers, as Adina Lia, Terry Mugler, and seeing what they did and translating that to what who my mother was as a woman, like and who's a fashion-obsessed woman, and realizing, oh, this is how you make a woman look like a woman.
[3:07] SPEAKER_00: And I just think from a very young age, I fell in love with women and dressing them, and it's all I ever wanted to do.
[3:14] SPEAKER_01: You know, you have a special gift, as I'm sure you've heard a lot, where you just seem to know precisely what a woman wants and needs to bring out that inner kind of like diva in her.
[3:26] SPEAKER_01: But you also, your sister was a model, I believe.
[3:29] SPEAKER_01: You mentioned your mom, so it seems like you were you were placed and surrounded by the perfect people.
[3:34] SPEAKER_01: How did they nurture that in you though?
[3:37] SPEAKER_00: You know, it wasn't a, I don't feel like it was a conscious thing, it was a subconscious thing.
[3:43] SPEAKER_00: And I know a lot of designers say this, like, but I'm the one, like for real.
[3:49] SPEAKER_00: My mom is the most stylish woman I know.
[3:52] SPEAKER_02: Uh you were talking about Neiman Marcus, she was calling from South Carolina.
[3:57] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like my mom is very stylish to this day.
[4:02] SPEAKER_00: She turned 65 this year, and like I'm calling around to find a new Tom Ford pump for her.
[4:09] SPEAKER_00: It's like, you know, she has a very signature style.
[4:13] SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
[4:14] SPEAKER_00: Uh, and you can see that translate into what I do.
[4:18] SPEAKER_00: Like, she was always in a very fitted suit.
[4:22] SPEAKER_00: Um, there's only one type of shoe she wears.
[4:25] SPEAKER_00: It's a pointy toe pump with an at least uh one ten heel.
[4:31] SPEAKER_00: Like, if it doesn't have that, she's not wearing it.
[4:34] SPEAKER_00: And you see that, like when my show opened this season, that was my mother.
[4:39] SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
[4:40] SPEAKER_00: So I just kind of feel like uh it it defined who I am as a person and as a designer, her personal style.
[4:49] SPEAKER_01: Does she advise you?
[4:50] SPEAKER_01: Like, has she ever said, you know, maybe try this, or do you go to her for No, she doesn't.
[4:56] SPEAKER_00: No, she I don't think she has to because she is the muse.
[5:00] SPEAKER_00: She is, you know, it just is.
[5:02] SPEAKER_00: She what she does do is demand clothing.
[5:05] SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
[5:06] SPEAKER_00: She's like, okay, I need this, I need that.
[5:08] SPEAKER_02: She's on the runway just texting you in the real time.
[5:11] SPEAKER_02: But that leads me to my next question, which is who is the Sergio Hudson woman?
[5:16] SPEAKER_00: I think the Sergio Hudson woman is a multitude of things, but basically a boss.
[5:25] SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
[5:26] SPEAKER_00: And that doesn't mean you have to run a Fortune 500 company.
[5:30] SPEAKER_00: You can be the boss of your home, but I feel like she's the woman that walks into the room and everybody looks to her for what direction to go in.
[5:39] SPEAKER_00: I feel like a lot of my clients are that person.
[5:42] SPEAKER_00: Like you're the one in the friend group that is like, okay, what are we doing for this vacation or this girl's trip?
[5:49] SPEAKER_00: You're the person that they go to to plan the bridal shower.
[5:53] SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
[5:54] SPEAKER_00: I kind of feel like a lot of my clients are that person.
[5:59] SPEAKER_00: And um a lot of world travelers, uh, it's just you're that girl, you know?
[6:07] SPEAKER_00: I definitely dress that girl.
[6:09] SPEAKER_00: And I feel like my customers are not label chasers, they're quality chasers, and they want to support people in a meaningful way.
[6:20] SPEAKER_00: A lot of them don't just want to wear clothes because other people are wearing them.
[6:26] SPEAKER_02: I mean, you can say you dress that girl because Beyonce, Michelle Obama, Britney Spears, Blake Lively, like the list goes on and on.
[6:36] SPEAKER_02: You are someone who dresses celebrities on celebrities.
[6:40] SPEAKER_02: How did you get there?
[6:42] SPEAKER_00: Another crazy question.
[6:44] SPEAKER_00: So here's the thing: I started in LA.
[6:49] SPEAKER_00: I didn't come to New York first.
[6:51] SPEAKER_00: I went to LA because I was signed to a PR showroom in LA.
[6:55] SPEAKER_00: That's how I started getting on celebrities.
[6:58] SPEAKER_00: And I was losing opportunities because I was still in South Carolina.
[7:02] SPEAKER_00: And like when I dressed uh Britney Spears for the first time, Kendall Jenner, the Kardashians, I was still living in South Carolina.
[7:11] SPEAKER_00: I was just shipping stuff to LA.
[7:14] SPEAKER_00: And I began losing opportunities.
[7:16] SPEAKER_00: I'll never forget I lost the opportunity with Jennifer Lopez because I couldn't get it done and over to LA in time.
[7:24] SPEAKER_00: And that's where I was like, okay, I gotta go to LA.
[7:27] SPEAKER_00: And so that's when I moved to LA, I took this approach, like, okay, I'm in LA.
[7:33] SPEAKER_00: There aren't many ready-to-wear designers in LA.
[7:36] SPEAKER_00: It's mostly costume designers, evening wear designers, some bridal designers, but not people who make like suits and cocktail dresses and, you know, the full gambit.
[7:45] SPEAKER_00: So when I went out there, I was like a big fish in a small pond.
[7:49] SPEAKER_00: So whenever the stylist needed a suit and they couldn't get it from Paris or London or New York, I was there.
[7:57] SPEAKER_00: And that's how I got a lot of my opportunities.
[7:59] SPEAKER_00: I mean, it wasn't because I was just the best designer on the planet.
[8:03] SPEAKER_00: It was because I was good and I was there.
[8:05] SPEAKER_01: What were some of the challenges you faced, though, as a black designer in those spaces?
[8:09] SPEAKER_00: Oh wow.
[8:10] SPEAKER_00: You know what's crazy?
[8:11] SPEAKER_00: I think early on people didn't know that I was a black designer.
[8:15] SPEAKER_00: So it wasn't like nobody knew who Sergio Hudson was.
[8:18] SPEAKER_00: Nobody cared.
[8:19] SPEAKER_00: They were just like You could be Italian, you could be Latin.
[8:22] SPEAKER_00: Nobody cared because it was just like this jumpsuit is here and it looks good.
[8:26] SPEAKER_00: I think one of my defining moments was when we dressed Kendall Jenna for her 20th birthday party.
[8:33] SPEAKER_00: And I know Monica Rose was styling her at the time.
[8:37] SPEAKER_00: I know Monica didn't know what I looked like, who I was, or whatever.
[8:41] SPEAKER_00: And it it didn't matter because I made that jumpsuit and it looked great on her.
[8:46] SPEAKER_00: And from that moment, I kind of feel like that's when I started stepping out of the shadows.
[8:51] SPEAKER_00: And that's when I moved to LA and started building the actual brand, Sergio Hudson.
[8:58] SPEAKER_01: Were you ever tempted to stay in the shadows and not put a face to the name?
[9:01] SPEAKER_00: It wasn't a thought.
[9:03] SPEAKER_00: Uh I knew eventually I would have to like, you know, but at the end of the day, I wasn't thinking about being a celebrity designer.
[9:11] SPEAKER_00: I was thinking about building a brand.
[9:13] SPEAKER_00: My goal was always to dress women, like real women, who went in the store and purchased clothing.
[9:20] SPEAKER_00: That was just my avenue to get there.
[9:22] SPEAKER_00: I never wanted to be a costume designer.
[9:24] SPEAKER_00: I never wanted to be a custom designer.
[9:27] SPEAKER_00: I don't generally care for making things custom for people.
[9:33] SPEAKER_00: Because I don't really like to have to consider other people's opinions.
[9:39] SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's the whole thing.
[9:50] SPEAKER_00: And they come to me with all these ideas, I'm like, well, you should probably, I think I said this to you before.
[9:56] SPEAKER_00: Um, you should probably go find a seamstress to bring your idea to life.
[10:00] SPEAKER_00: Because I'm a designer.
[10:02] SPEAKER_00: So you come to me and say, I like slim silhouettes and I like red.
[10:06] SPEAKER_00: That's as far as I need a custom client to go.
[10:08] SPEAKER_00: But they never don't only go that far.
[10:11] SPEAKER_00: They always like, I want it like this and I want it like that.
[10:14] SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, that's fine, but it's not what I do.
[10:16] SPEAKER_02: That's cute, yeah.
[10:17] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and you are a designer designer because there are some designers that don't sketch, they don't sew.
[10:22] SPEAKER_02: You could do both.
[10:23] SPEAKER_00: Yes.
[10:24] SPEAKER_02: So where did you get your training?
[10:25] SPEAKER_02: Are you naturally talented?
[10:27] SPEAKER_02: I mean, like, I did sorry, let me rephrase that.
[10:29] SPEAKER_02: What I mean is like by drawing.
[10:31] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm not, what's the what is the thing that the new kids all say?
[10:35] SPEAKER_00: God, I feel so old when I say that.
[10:37] SPEAKER_00: I'm not self-taught, like everybody says nowadays.
[10:41] SPEAKER_00: I went to design school and um, I went to design school in Atlanta, a school called Barter College.
[10:47] SPEAKER_00: It's a small art school that's not there anymore.
[10:50] SPEAKER_00: All of my teachers were former industry people that actually worked in the industry.
[10:56] SPEAKER_00: I feel like a lot of times when you go to the bigger, like well-known schools, the teachers are like career teachers.
[11:03] SPEAKER_00: They've never worked in the industry.
[11:06] SPEAKER_00: They go to design school, they get a PhD, they become pattern-making teachers, but they've never actually had to like make patterns for a brand.
[11:15] SPEAKER_00: All of my teachers actually worked in the industry, and I didn't realize how valuable that was until I got out and started working in the industry, and I realized how much people don't know.
[11:28] SPEAKER_00: Like it's crazy.
[11:29] SPEAKER_00: Like, I have a friend who's like a big designer, and he calls me and he's like, This pattern maker's trying to charge me this amount.
[11:36] SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, just add the same allowance yourself.
[11:39] SPEAKER_00: He don't know how to do it.
[11:41] SPEAKER_01: It's interesting because you had mentioned before um when you were doing the reality show that you realized you were leaps and bounds ahead of some of your peers, which you hadn't expected at the time.
[11:50] SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
[11:50] SPEAKER_01: Is that what you think sets you apart from the competition?
[11:53] SPEAKER_01: That you just you're you you have a skill set that isn't as common.
[11:58] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think, um, and I'm not trying not trying to be like cocky or whatever, but you can tell when a designer knows how to make clothes and when they just know how to design clothes or they're a creative director.
[12:13] SPEAKER_00: I feel like the art of being a clothing designer is almost dying.
[12:18] SPEAKER_00: Um what's the tell?
[12:21] SPEAKER_00: You can tell by how the clothes fit the woman.
[12:24] SPEAKER_00: You can tell by, you know, some of the ideas they try to bring to life.
[12:29] SPEAKER_00: You know, if you don't understand how a garment is made, you'll design things that don't work for in real life.
[12:35] SPEAKER_00: Like they work on the runway, but have you ever like seen the runway outfit and you really loved it, and then you went in the store and tried it on and realized this can't work for my life?
[12:46] SPEAKER_00: That's because it was probably designed by somebody who has no clue how garments actually fit on a real woman's body.
[12:53] SPEAKER_02: I want to ask you about the business of fashion because you could be the best designer, but if you don't know how everything works behind the scenes, it can be really difficult and it can be a learning curve.
[13:05] SPEAKER_02: So for you, what would you say was the most challenging part about learning the business of fashion?
[13:10] SPEAKER_00: Ooh, the most challenging part, uh, my business partner, Inga, she has a saying, the best lesson is the bot lesson.
[13:19] SPEAKER_00: And I've had a lot of bot lessons.
[13:22] SPEAKER_00: What does that mean?
[13:23] SPEAKER_00: Meaning when you lose money, you learn lessons quicker.
[13:26] SPEAKER_00: What's been the most expensive lesson you've learned?
[13:29] SPEAKER_00: Some of them I can't discuss.
[13:32] SPEAKER_03: It's still hers.
[13:33] SPEAKER_00: Um wasting money on things that people don't really want to wear.
[13:42] SPEAKER_00: Or producing things that you don't think is like not listening to your instinct.
[13:47] SPEAKER_00: I've had times when stores wanted to buy things and I didn't think it was gonna work for their customer, and I just went on and did it because you know this big prestigious store wants to buy it from you, and then at the end of the season they tell you, oh, this didn't sell.
[14:03] SPEAKER_00: Can you take it back?
[14:04] SPEAKER_00: Then you gotta just eat the losses.
[14:05] SPEAKER_00: You get what I'm saying?
[14:07] SPEAKER_00: So I've learned to somewhat stand up for myself and stand up for my, you know, when you when you hear or hear or feel something, you have to trust your instincts.
[14:19] SPEAKER_00: Like that's something that you have to learn in this particular business.
[14:24] SPEAKER_00: Instincts are key.
[14:26] SPEAKER_00: Like you know, okay, this I probably shouldn't sell to this store.
[14:30] SPEAKER_00: This is not gonna be great.
[14:32] SPEAKER_00: And it always happens, like it always is like when you hear that voice, it always ends up working out in that way.
[14:41] SPEAKER_00: And really getting someone that you can trust to deal with the business side of it.
[14:45] SPEAKER_00: Like, my business partner, I we're like this, like she doesn't do anything without asking me, even though I'm like, go ahead.
[14:56] SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't care if you pay the light bill, but she's she is that type of person, like, okay, we spent 10 pennies on this.
[15:04] SPEAKER_00: I just want you to know you need people like that when you're working in this business because you will, it's easy to lose everything.
[15:11] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and knowing your strengths and weaknesses and what you also enjoy doing.
[15:14] SPEAKER_01: I wanted to get your thoughts on Hanifa temporarily pausing operations and this kind of um disconnect between what people see on the outside and the grind that it is behind the scenes as a small brand that's scaling quickly.
[15:28] SPEAKER_01: What were your thoughts on that when you first saw the news come out?
[15:32] SPEAKER_00: Um my heart went out to her.
[15:35] SPEAKER_00: I mean, to be honest, I don't want to get emotional talking about it, but when you're working in this business, and I think her business got so big so quickly, and that's a behemoth to handle, to handle your all your own.
[15:53] SPEAKER_00: Like she wasn't in retail, she was handling it all on her own.
[15:57] SPEAKER_00: So that means employees, that means warehousing, that means figuring out how you're gonna ship, how you're gonna take returns.
[16:04] SPEAKER_00: You know, if you order 10,000 dresses and one stitch is wrong on every dress, it's all on you.
[16:11] SPEAKER_00: You know, these are things that I think people have to, you know, they take for granted.
[16:15] SPEAKER_00: And I mean, just think about who is her competition, these brands that make billions of dollars, and they can lose millions of dollars and still be profitable.
[16:25] SPEAKER_00: So I think when we are working, this is the thing.
[16:30] SPEAKER_00: When a business is black-owned, a lot of times we try to hold our businesses to the standard that we hold the other businesses that we deal with.
[16:42] SPEAKER_00: I tell people all the time, don't come complaining to me about a black designer's work.
[16:49] SPEAKER_00: Because at the end of the day, I know how hard it is to get a good sample maker.
[16:54] SPEAKER_00: So a lot of times, you know, when you talk to the celebrity styles, they'll be like, well, I don't work with black designers because their work isn't good.
[17:02] SPEAKER_00: It's probably because they're making it themselves.
[17:04] SPEAKER_00: They can't afford to get a great sewer to do it.
[17:08] SPEAKER_00: You know, everybody is working on a different level.
[17:11] SPEAKER_00: So what you and I say this and I give Zarina a shout out.
[17:15] SPEAKER_00: When Zarina was working with Beyonce, she always took care of me.
[17:21] SPEAKER_00: She always made sure she was like, okay, I know, you know, she could have gone to Bauman and got 10 outfits, but she would come to me and say, Sergio, I need these.
[17:32] SPEAKER_00: Can you get them to me?
[17:33] SPEAKER_00: How much time do you need?
[17:34] SPEAKER_00: Because she knew I was a small brand, and she took into consideration those things because her and B were trying to be conscious of what they were doing.
[17:45] SPEAKER_00: And I think we have to, you know, give grace where grace is.
[17:49] SPEAKER_00: Of course, it comes to the point where it's like, okay, now you're doing too much.
[17:52] SPEAKER_00: But I think for her, that business was so huge, and it was just too much.
[17:59] SPEAKER_00: And she has a family.
[18:00] SPEAKER_00: You know, I know her.
[18:02] SPEAKER_00: Like she has a family.
[18:03] SPEAKER_01: She was like postpartum.
[18:04] SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
[18:05] SPEAKER_00: When all this was.
[18:06] SPEAKER_00: I remember we did something together.
[18:08] SPEAKER_00: She had just had a baby.
[18:09] SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
[18:09] SPEAKER_00: You know, that's a lot for a woman.
[18:12] SPEAKER_00: And to have all those people working for you.
[18:14] SPEAKER_00: So, you know, I'm praying for her and I know she'll be back.
[18:19] SPEAKER_00: Um, because her business really filled the void that was there and still there now that she's gone.
[18:24] unknown: Yeah.
[18:25] SPEAKER_02: You talk about some of the more expensive sides of running your own line.
[18:30] SPEAKER_02: What is it?
[18:30] SPEAKER_02: Like, for those of us who don't see it on the outside, for example, like what does it take to get your stuff into a Neiman Marcus, a Nordstrom, a Sax Fifth Avenue?
[18:40] SPEAKER_00: It's uh, first of all, to even get noticed by them is like winning the lottery almost without winning the lottery.
[18:50] SPEAKER_00: That is like it's kind of like being picked to win the lottery.
[18:53] SPEAKER_00: But so like to get acknowledged by them is the first hurdle to get to jump over.
[18:58] SPEAKER_00: To get them to write an order for you is the next hurdle.
[19:01] SPEAKER_00: Fulfilling the order is the next hurdle.
[19:05] SPEAKER_00: Making sure it sells is the next hurdle.
[19:08] SPEAKER_00: And it's the last hurdle, and that's the hardest hurdle to jump over, and that's the one that can cost you the most.
[19:14] SPEAKER_00: Because if it doesn't sell, then you're talking taking clothes back.
[19:19] SPEAKER_00: You're talking, okay, next season we bought this amount from you, we're gonna decrease that by 50%.
[19:26] SPEAKER_00: So you've established your business to where you can pay this many people, but now your budget is cut in half because the store said you're closed and sell, so now we have to cut, we can't, you know.
[19:39] SPEAKER_00: So that's the biggest thing.
[19:41] SPEAKER_00: You have to be equipped to because you can be out of business before you go into business dealing with those stores.
[19:47] SPEAKER_01: I'm curious, was there ever a time where you were close to closing the doors?
[19:54] SPEAKER_00: At least twice a year.
[19:58] SPEAKER_01: I mean, I guess that's what it is to be in this business, right?
[20:01] SPEAKER_00: It's very volatile, you know.
[20:03] SPEAKER_00: I'm just a very determined person, and my business partner is just very good at business.
[20:09] SPEAKER_00: Um, we've been able to survive, but it's been tough.
[20:13] SPEAKER_00: And my motivation, I I have a different if my motivation was surely making money and being successful, I probably would have given up.
[20:22] SPEAKER_00: But I love fashion.
[20:24] SPEAKER_00: I love what I do, and my goal is to normalize people that look like me in this industry, being successful, and really to be able to be a shining light to someone like me growing up that you heard me call all the names of the designers I looked at when I was growing up, only one of them was black.
[20:43] SPEAKER_00: That was Patrick Kelly, and he died, you know, when I was very young.
[20:48] SPEAKER_00: So it's like in order for you to see yourself in an industry, you have to see yourself successful in that industry.
[20:58] SPEAKER_01: I'm uh I'm curious, speaking of business and when it's you know tough and when it's booming, the Michelle Obama moment.
[21:07] SPEAKER_01: Come through.
[21:08] SPEAKER_01: I mean, what how did that even come to be?
[21:12] SPEAKER_01: Or was it a surprise?
[21:14] SPEAKER_00: Um, so it was a long story, but it started about a year before that, maybe a year and a half before that happened.
[21:23] SPEAKER_00: We I first got approached by, well, before that, I saw Meredith Coop, who's her stylist, on Instagram.
[21:29] SPEAKER_00: She fought, you know how you can see when somebody followed you.
[21:32] SPEAKER_00: As soon as she followed me, I was like, oh, she followed me.
[21:34] SPEAKER_00: I DM'd her and I was like, I would love to dress Mrs.
[21:37] SPEAKER_00: Obama one day.
[21:38] SPEAKER_01: You shot kind of audacity.
[21:40] SPEAKER_00: Immediately.
[21:40] SPEAKER_01: That's me, eh?
[21:41] SPEAKER_00: I'm like, oh, you following me?
[21:43] SPEAKER_00: You like what I'm doing?
[21:44] SPEAKER_00: Boom.
[21:45] SPEAKER_00: Kobe.
[21:46] SPEAKER_00: And she answered me back almost immediately and said, like the most magical word ever.
[21:52] SPEAKER_00: Yes.
[21:52] SPEAKER_00: Oh wow.
[21:53] SPEAKER_00: And that was the beginning.
[21:55] SPEAKER_00: I made some things for her.
[21:56] SPEAKER_00: She was shooting like an L cover.
[21:59] unknown: And
[22:00] SPEAKER_00: And um it was when she was about to start promoting Becoming, the first book, and made a bunch of stuff for her, didn't work, devastated, but just happened to have the relationship.
[22:14] SPEAKER_00: And then we actually made some things for her for the becoming tour, and she wore though.
[22:18] unknown: Okay.
[22:19] SPEAKER_00: Did really well.
[22:20] SPEAKER_02: How does it work?
[22:21] SPEAKER_02: Do you you send the clothes and then you just wait for the L cover to come out, and either you see that they wore it or not?
[22:26] SPEAKER_00: No, she tell she told, she's very good.
[22:28] SPEAKER_00: Like she told me, she was like, they didn't work.
[22:31] SPEAKER_00: Um, but we'll try them again for something else.
[22:34] SPEAKER_00: And you know, it's very she's very a beautiful soul.
[22:38] SPEAKER_00: And um, so we made some stuff for the becoming tour.
[22:43] SPEAKER_00: One thing about their her team is they don't have you make something unless they think she's going to actually wear it.
[22:52] SPEAKER_03: Okay.
[22:52] SPEAKER_00: It's not like, oh, make it and then maybe she'll wear it.
[22:56] SPEAKER_00: It's like, no, we think she's gonna wear it on this stop.
[22:59] SPEAKER_00: So she wore one suit, um, I believe it was on the Atlanta stop on that tour.
[23:05] SPEAKER_00: It was like an eggplant colored suit.
[23:08] SPEAKER_00: It did really well.
[23:10] SPEAKER_00: And then she wore a sequin jumpsuit to Essence Fest.
[23:15] SPEAKER_00: So that did really well as well.
[23:17] SPEAKER_00: So we didn't, and then later that year, she was like, You want to dress her for the inauguration?
[23:23] SPEAKER_00: And I was like, Yeah, cool.
[23:25] SPEAKER_00: You know, by this time, we cool.
[23:27] SPEAKER_02: Like I thought you've been here.
[23:29] SPEAKER_00: I dressed her a couple times at this point, so it wasn't like But Sergio, be real.
[23:34] SPEAKER_02: Inside what's going on.
[23:35] SPEAKER_00: No, for real.
[23:36] SPEAKER_00: I was, and you know what's crazy?
[23:38] SPEAKER_00: It was like a dichotomy going on at that time because I had been working um with the vice president, um, Harris, at the time.
[23:49] SPEAKER_00: So I was focused on that because I was like, okay, I'm dressing her for inauguration because I've been doing the campaign.
[23:56] SPEAKER_00: I'm making suits, like ghost making suits, because you know, we didn't want to really be like, oh, she's wearing a designer brand or anything like that.
[24:04] SPEAKER_00: And then come down to a short, long story, I ended up not getting the inauguration for whatever reason.
[24:14] SPEAKER_00: I was devastated because I wanted to dress her for the inauguration for the daytime.
[24:19] SPEAKER_00: But I had already been confirmed to dress Mrs.
[24:22] SPEAKER_00: Obama and made the outfit, everything.
[24:25] SPEAKER_00: But I was still fighting to get that daytime for her because I'm like, I want to be a part of history.
[24:30] SPEAKER_00: I have black daughters, I won't be able to say, you know, I dressed her for that day.
[24:35] SPEAKER_02: And her is Kamala Harris.
[24:36] SPEAKER_00: Yes.
[24:37] SPEAKER_02: Vice President Kamala Harris.
[24:38] SPEAKER_00: Yes.
[24:38] SPEAKER_00: And then, so long story short, I they gave me the ball, the Naugra ball, that got canceled because of the insurrection.
[24:49] SPEAKER_00: So then my outfit shifted to the dress she did in front of the Lincoln Memorial that night, which was nice still, but I mean it wasn't the daytime.
[24:58] SPEAKER_00: So I was upset, to be honest with you.
[25:01] SPEAKER_00: And I would say this the night before inauguration, I got a call from Merida, and she said to me, Are you dressed in the vice president tomorrow?
[25:12] SPEAKER_00: I said, No, I was supposed to be, but I'm not.
[25:15] SPEAKER_00: She said, Okay, good, because if you were, then I wasn't gonna put Michelle in your outfit.
[25:22] SPEAKER_00: So I was like, okay, that was definitely the universe because you were set to do it.
[25:29] SPEAKER_00: This this moment, I don't think we would be sitting here if it wasn't for that moment.
[25:34] SPEAKER_00: It like launched the brand in a bigger way.
[25:38] SPEAKER_01: I want to talk about that.
[25:39] SPEAKER_01: The moment she comes out in this Sergio Hudson fit, what is going through your mind then?
[25:48] SPEAKER_01: And then what I mean, the blow up afterward.
[25:51] SPEAKER_01: Everybody was asking, what is she wearing?
[25:53] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so it was kind of crazy.
[25:56] SPEAKER_00: I was flying from DC because I had fit had to fit the vice president for her outfit.
[26:06] SPEAKER_00: I was flying from DC to Atlanta to do a photo shoot.
[26:11] SPEAKER_00: So I was in the air.
[26:12] SPEAKER_00: When I touched down in Philly, because I had like a connection for some reason from DC to Philly to go to Atlanta, which I still don't understand right now.
[26:22] SPEAKER_02: It was been Delta.
[26:23] SPEAKER_00: And then so I went into the lounge, and my business partner called me said, She's wearing it.
[26:28] SPEAKER_00: Go look.
[26:29] SPEAKER_00: So I ran into the lounge, and she was literally, you know, when they came up the stairs, she was coming down as I came in, and me and all the people were watching, and everybody like audibly gasped.
[26:42] SPEAKER_00: They was like, and I gasped too because I was like, wow, she looks really good.
[26:48] SPEAKER_00: For a split second, I forgot I made the outfit.
[26:51] SPEAKER_00: Because I was just like, I it really wasn't about what she was wearing or how her hair was or how her makeup looked.
[27:00] SPEAKER_00: It was about how she was carrying herself and the pride that I feel like everybody felt.
[27:06] SPEAKER_00: And she, you could tell she felt really good.
[27:09] SPEAKER_01: That had to have been a transformative moment for me.
[27:12] SPEAKER_00: It was definitely an immediate moment.
[27:14] SPEAKER_00: And in in that moment, I had dressed a lot of people by that point.
[27:18] SPEAKER_00: I had dressed her twice.
[27:19] SPEAKER_00: I had dressed Beyonce, I had dressed Jennifer Lopez, a bunch of people.
[27:25] SPEAKER_00: But in that moment, me looking at that screen, I knew everything had changed.
[27:29] SPEAKER_00: Like I just immediately knew I was like, okay, this is different.
[27:33] SPEAKER_02: Let's talk about that because I remember where I was when she walked out and how amazing she looked.
[27:39] SPEAKER_02: And I looked on Twitter and Twitter was blowing up.
[27:42] SPEAKER_02: Everybody wanted to know where that burgundy jumpsuit came from, right?
[27:46] SPEAKER_02: Or where that burgundy outfit came from.
[27:48] SPEAKER_02: So after that happens, I believe it sells out everywhere.
[27:53] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so the crazy part was I it was custom.
[27:59] SPEAKER_00: So I it was just derived from a collection I had did the year before, but I did have like a black version of the belt on my site available.
[28:09] SPEAKER_00: And immediately that belt, I was doing such little business that I had my quantities on infinite because it was like we would only sell something here or there, and we would just make it and send it out.
[28:22] SPEAKER_00: And I didn't have any stock.
[28:24] SPEAKER_00: So by the time we caught it, we had sold like thousands of the bill.
[28:29] SPEAKER_00: And it was like we had to shut it down.
[28:30] SPEAKER_00: I was like, okay, stop, because we're not gonna be able to fulfill these orders.
[28:34] SPEAKER_00: And the site site crashed like two, three times that day.
[28:38] SPEAKER_00: It was the first time I had that experience where it's like something really like, for lack of a better term, went viral like that.
[28:47] SPEAKER_00: Um it was crazy.
[28:49] SPEAKER_00: I was making belts for months.
[28:51] SPEAKER_02: What?
[28:51] SPEAKER_02: You got sick of the biggest.
[28:58] SPEAKER_02: That moment.
[29:01] SPEAKER_00: So I went from my sales team trying to get meetings with every department store and boutique to I think by the Monday after inauguration, I had meetings with every major.
[29:19] SPEAKER_00: Ever.
[29:20] SPEAKER_01: I'd be like, so now you wanna.
[29:21] SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
[29:21] SPEAKER_01: Now you want to talk to me.
[29:23] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I was literally by Tuesday, I was on a FaceTime with Linda Fargo.
[29:28] SPEAKER_00: Which was like surreal.
[29:29] SPEAKER_01: Overnight.
[29:30] SPEAKER_01: Did you ever have a conversation with Mrs.
[29:32] SPEAKER_01: Obama about that moment?
[29:33] SPEAKER_00: No, I have never talked to her about it.
[29:36] SPEAKER_01: Really?
[29:38] SPEAKER_00: Ever.
[29:39] SPEAKER_01: Um, it's just crazy how one person can just absolutely change your life.
[29:44] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm very grateful to her and especially to Meredith.
[29:49] SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
[29:50] SPEAKER_02: You seem to have a lot of angels in this industry.
[29:53] SPEAKER_02: Um, you mentioned Beyonce and the fact that they were her and her team were able to give you grace, knowing obviously that um it may take a little bit of time to get the outfit to her.
[30:03] SPEAKER_02: Who else has looked out for you?
[30:05] SPEAKER_00: So many people.
[30:07] SPEAKER_00: I would say um definitely Beyonce and Zarina.
[30:12] SPEAKER_00: Um, Law has been an angel to me over the years.
[30:16] SPEAKER_00: He's always supported.
[30:18] SPEAKER_00: I think, you know, I will say this publicly.
[30:21] SPEAKER_00: I think Law gets this like persona.
[30:24] SPEAKER_00: He probably be mad that I say this in public, but he is one of the most genuine, honest people in this industry.
[30:34] SPEAKER_00: Like, for years we've worked together, and he's constantly always come back to me for things.
[30:41] SPEAKER_00: He can get whatever he wants, but he still comes back to me.
[30:45] SPEAKER_00: So I would say he's definitely one of them.
[30:47] SPEAKER_00: So many, I don't like Beth Air for sure.
[30:51] SPEAKER_00: You know, but my real angels are the people that work with me, you know, like my co-creative director, um, my assistant, all the ateliers that make my clothes.
[31:01] SPEAKER_00: I mean, they work with me because I'm I'm airy, so I like the best.
[31:07] SPEAKER_00: So like my ateliers, they make clothes for like Tom Brown and you know, Ralph Lauren and all these people.
[31:15] SPEAKER_00: And then hear Lil'O me coming there, like, nah, I ain't got Tom Brown money, but I need the quality.
[31:22] SPEAKER_02: So, what do you do when you see a woman on the street wearing Sergio Hudson?
[31:26] SPEAKER_00: Um I fight back being able to walk up to her because I'm like, at the end of the day, I think some people that wear my clothes don't know who I am, which I really love.
[31:38] SPEAKER_00: It's like I've the first time it happened, I saw a lady in the airport, she had on like one of my leather suits.
[31:44] SPEAKER_00: I'm like, she got on a leather suit in the airport.
[31:47] SPEAKER_00: And I was just like, wow, I'm just staring at her, and I'm like, this lady probably wondered why I'm staring at her.
[31:54] SPEAKER_00: And you know, it just gives immense pride because that's the gift that we all are looking for.
[32:01] SPEAKER_00: Like, it's great to dress whoever, but to see a normal woman that you know took her personal money, went out and bought that from the store, tried it on, maybe got it altered, and now is wearing it.
[32:13] SPEAKER_00: It's probably one of her favorite outfits, is uh a beautiful gift.
[32:18] SPEAKER_01: I I'm curious, now that you have all of these opportunities, is there anything you've turned down that people would be surprised to hear?
[32:26] SPEAKER_00: You could probably ask Omar.
[32:28] SPEAKER_00: I turned out a lot of stuff.
[32:31] SPEAKER_00: Uh like what?
[32:32] SPEAKER_01: Just like dressing certain people.
[32:35] SPEAKER_01: Is there any celebrity you wouldn't dress again?
[32:37] SPEAKER_00: It's not a celebrity that I wouldn't dress.
[32:40] SPEAKER_00: I think I would like to say this.
[32:44] SPEAKER_00: I think the art of dressing celebrity for a brand, people need to understand it's not, you don't just want to dress any celebrity.
[32:53] SPEAKER_00: And you don't want to just dress any celebrity for any event.
[32:57] SPEAKER_00: It has to make sense.
[32:58] SPEAKER_00: And when I say sense, I mean sense, like money.
[33:03] SPEAKER_00: Because we dress celebrities, we allow them to pull clothing so that it can be, it's marketing for the brand.
[33:10] SPEAKER_00: So if you're not gonna market the clothes to bring them back to buy something, it's really kind of a a useless act for us.
[33:18] SPEAKER_01: It's not mutually beneficial.
[33:19] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's not.
[33:20] SPEAKER_00: So I feel like people get offended when they can't pull clothes or whatever, but it has to make sense.
[33:26] unknown: Yeah.
[33:26] SPEAKER_02: Let's talk about the Met Gala.
[33:29] SPEAKER_02: Because it is approaching.
[33:31] SPEAKER_02: Uh, last year you dressed 13 people.
[33:34] SPEAKER_02: 18.
[33:34] SPEAKER_02: What?
[33:35] SPEAKER_02: Maybe you turned down the 19th.
[33:37] SPEAKER_02: That's somebody that you turned down.
[33:38] SPEAKER_02: Um, tell me about that and what that week, not week, what those months leading up to the Matt Gala looked like.
[33:45] SPEAKER_00: The months were okay.
[33:47] SPEAKER_00: Because the numbers didn't really like expand until I think maybe a month and a half before it started creeping up to 13.
[34:00] SPEAKER_00: And I and it was hard because a lot of them were private clients.
[34:05] SPEAKER_00: So I kept getting the call, and I'm like, I can't tell these people no, because they're my friends and my clients, and they're going to the Met Gala.
[34:15] SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, you want to wear.
[34:18] SPEAKER_00: So it's like, okay, what do I do here?
[34:21] SPEAKER_00: And then like maybe the week of the Met Gala, that's when it got up to 18.
[34:31] SPEAKER_00: Really?
[34:31] SPEAKER_02: That's even worse because then the pressure's on.
[34:33] SPEAKER_00: I think the last person I took was Jennifer Raymond, Usher's wife.
[34:38] SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
[34:39] SPEAKER_00: And we made that the week of the Met Gala.
[34:42] SPEAKER_01: What goes on behind the scenes?
[34:43] SPEAKER_01: Because obviously, once you see them on the red carpet, everything looks so smooth and so organized.
[34:48] SPEAKER_00: A lot of craziness.
[34:50] SPEAKER_00: But I will say this: I have an amazing team and an amazing PR team.
[34:56] SPEAKER_00: And we just kind of split up, and like everybody went their own ways.
[35:01] SPEAKER_00: It was hard for me because I'm normally with the people that I'm dressing for Met, but I was obviously I couldn't be with 18 people.
[35:11] SPEAKER_00: So I literally got in the car and I was like stopping everywhere.
[35:16] SPEAKER_00: And like, and then I, of course, I was going with someone, and so I had like all this content to capture.
[35:22] SPEAKER_00: It was crazy.
[35:23] SPEAKER_00: That was a crazy day.
[35:25] SPEAKER_01: Do you have a favorite look that you've ever done for a red carpet or a Met Gala?
[35:29] SPEAKER_00: A favorite look.
[35:30] SPEAKER_00: I think one of my favorite looks was definitely be Kiki at the Met Gala when we went together.
[35:36] SPEAKER_00: That was your first year?
[35:38] SPEAKER_00: That was my first year going.
[35:40] SPEAKER_02: Um, sorry, if you could explain that really quickly.
[35:44] SPEAKER_02: So you've had your clothes have gone before.
[35:46] SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
[35:47] SPEAKER_00: So the first year I did Met Gala uh was I think the one right after COVID.
[35:55] SPEAKER_00: And I dressed like three or four people.
[35:57] SPEAKER_00: Um and I dressed Audra McDonald.
[36:00] SPEAKER_00: So I was there, but I was backstage because I was dressing her to perform.
[36:05] SPEAKER_00: And then we dressed Kiki for she was hosting that year.
[36:09] SPEAKER_00: That's like when they did the one in like September.
[36:12] SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
[36:13] SPEAKER_00: It's like they did two that year.
[36:15] SPEAKER_00: And I dressed Audra for the red carpet.
[36:18] SPEAKER_00: And then it was somebody else I dressed.
[36:21] SPEAKER_00: I can't remember who.
[36:22] SPEAKER_00: So that was my first year.
[36:24] SPEAKER_00: I was in the building.
[36:26] SPEAKER_00: Then the next year, me and Kiki went together.
[36:30] SPEAKER_00: And it was right after she had Leo.
[36:33] SPEAKER_00: And I don't know, that moment just kind of I feel like was a defining moment for both of us.
[36:40] SPEAKER_00: And it's one of my favorite memories ever, for sure.
[36:45] SPEAKER_00: And you call her a muse.
[36:46] SPEAKER_00: Oh, absolutely, she is.
[36:48] SPEAKER_00: That's my baby.
[36:49] SPEAKER_01: Is there anyone you'd love to dress, any celebrity?
[36:53] SPEAKER_00: That I love to dress.
[36:54] SPEAKER_01: That you would love to.
[36:56] SPEAKER_00: Would love to dress.
[36:58] SPEAKER_00: Um people ask me that question, and I always draw a blank.
[37:04] SPEAKER_00: Um, there are a few people that I would love to dress, uh love to dress again.
[37:09] SPEAKER_00: Like, I would love to dress Nicole Kidman.
[37:14] SPEAKER_00: Like, I always, it's a joke in my PR office.
[37:19] SPEAKER_00: I'm like, you're not getting that dress unless Nicole Kidman calls.
[37:23] SPEAKER_00: That's like the benchmark.
[37:26] SPEAKER_00: Like, if she calls, but don't ask me about it if she don't.
[37:30] SPEAKER_00: Um, I would love to dress in Deia again.
[37:33] SPEAKER_00: I've dressed her before, but not in her recent years.
[37:37] SPEAKER_01: Listen, she'll make anything look good, but it's that, oof, with the posing and the I know designers love her.
[37:44] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I love working with Law.
[37:46] SPEAKER_00: Like, I feel like um we have kindred spirits.
[37:50] SPEAKER_00: Like, when I have conversations with him, I feel like most people don't understand the reference.
[37:55] SPEAKER_00: I'm a reference person.
[37:56] SPEAKER_00: So like I will tell you, like, as Lena Ly's first collection in 1986, this dress looks like that.
[38:04] SPEAKER_00: He's like the only person I can like really go back and forth like that with.
[38:09] SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, so I it's a few people, but you know, I don't, I think it's more events than people now.
[38:18] SPEAKER_00: Like, I would love to dress someone for the Oscars that's like nominated.
[38:24] SPEAKER_00: Uh that moment, but it's, you know, it's hard to get those.
[38:28] SPEAKER_01: I mean, listen, you've done this, you've done all of this in such a relatively short amount of time that I think it's just a matter of time.
[38:34] SPEAKER_01: We get it there.
[38:35] SPEAKER_01: Yes, but we're we're manifesting it.
[38:37] SPEAKER_01: Um, I've what I know you've talked about expanding Sergio Hudson, uh, like the brand, you've talked about men's clothing, uh, children's, all of that.
[38:47] SPEAKER_01: What does expansion look like?
[38:49] SPEAKER_00: I think expansion looks like what you said.
[38:51] SPEAKER_00: You know, we've already expanded into men's.
[38:54] SPEAKER_00: Um, I've added more and more menswear over the past few seasons.
[39:00] SPEAKER_00: I think we've reached a fever pitch this season.
[39:03] SPEAKER_00: Like the menswear, we have a lot of requests for it.
[39:07] SPEAKER_00: Um literally after the show, I think the menswear was like the first stuff that got requested.
[39:14] SPEAKER_00: Um, and Coleman wore it like right off the road.
[39:20] SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, so I really I really want to build a brand that can touch every part of the household.
[39:29] SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
[39:30] SPEAKER_00: Um, for lack of a better term, I would love to do what Ralph Lauren does.
[39:36] SPEAKER_01: I think you said you'd love to do at times too.
[39:38] SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
[39:40] SPEAKER_00: Because I think when you when you hear the name Ralph Lauren, you don't think about a price point.
[39:46] SPEAKER_00: You think about, like if I was wearing a polo shirt and you were wearing a Ralph Lauren purple label gown that costs$3,000, we would both just say, Oh, I'm wearing Ralph Lauren.
[39:57] SPEAKER_00: We wouldn't think about if we, you know, if you had a Ralph Lauren coffee table in here, it could cost you like seven grand.
[40:05] SPEAKER_00: But you would just say, oh, it's not, you wouldn't say it's a seven grand coffee table made of mahogany wood.
[40:11] SPEAKER_00: You would just say it's a Ralph Lauren coffee table.
[40:13] SPEAKER_00: So I love that about his brand, that you don't have to specify what, whether it costs a lot or it doesn't cost a lot.
[40:22] SPEAKER_00: And that's what kind of brand I want, Sir Jill.
[40:25] SPEAKER_00: I want to be able to touch every socioeconomic um area, and I want to be able to touch home.
[40:31] SPEAKER_00: I want to be able to fragrance, cosmetics.
[40:34] SPEAKER_00: I love everything about dressing and living.
[40:37] SPEAKER_00: So we're definitely creeping out there.
[40:40] SPEAKER_01: It's gonna be a lifestyle.
[40:42] SPEAKER_00: Yes, absolutely.
[40:43] SPEAKER_00: I love that.
[40:44] SPEAKER_02: I also think Ralph Lauren, Americana as well.
[40:47] SPEAKER_02: Absolutely, because I am American.
[40:48] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, exactly.
[40:49] SPEAKER_02: That's what I was getting at, which is it feels like such a limited definition of what Americana and American culture is, but you are American culture.
[40:58] SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
[40:59] SPEAKER_00: I'm the most American you can be.
[41:01] SPEAKER_00: That's how I feel about it.
[41:02] SPEAKER_00: I told someone one day, I was like, you know, I'm a little black boy from South Carolina, you know, that I can actually go visit the plantation my family was enslaved on.
[41:15] SPEAKER_00: You know, if you know anything about um slavery in the South, the in South Carolina was one of one of the first states to receive slaves.
[41:28] SPEAKER_00: So it's one of the oldest slave cultures in the country.
[41:33] SPEAKER_00: So it's easier to trace your lineage there.
[41:36] SPEAKER_00: So I come from a rich history of American culture, you know, because that we built this country.
[41:44] SPEAKER_00: So I feel like I mean being an uh American designer is natural to me.
[41:50] SPEAKER_00: It's not natural to the outside world, the outside world, because when they see American Sportswear, they see Ralph Lauren, they see Calvin Klein, they see Michael Kors, they don't see me.
[42:04] SPEAKER_02: But do you see you in the sense of growing up in a very small town in South Carolina to the first lady of the United States wearing your um or former first lady of the United States wearing your clothing to an inauguration?
[42:18] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
[42:19] SPEAKER_02: That is American history.
[42:20] SPEAKER_01: You're like the personification of your ancestors' wildest drinks.
[42:24] SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
[42:24] SPEAKER_00: And I walk in that and I live in that, you know, being able to dress not just uh a former first lady, but a sitting first lady, and to be able to dress the first female vice president of the United States, um, I know that means something.
[42:47] SPEAKER_00: It's a lot of established brands that can't stay there.
[42:50] SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
[42:51] SPEAKER_00: You know?
[42:52] SPEAKER_02: I do, um, before we let we want to play this game real quick, but I do want to ask about this year's Megala.
[42:57] SPEAKER_02: You can't, can you say who you're dressing?
[42:59] SPEAKER_00: No.
[43:00] SPEAKER_02: Okay.
[43:00] SPEAKER_02: Can you give us some hints?
[43:02] SPEAKER_00: No, because I don't know who I'm dressing.
[43:06] SPEAKER_02: Um Okay, I don't want to, I don't want to really think then.
[43:09] SPEAKER_02: Uh all right, you want to introduce it.
[43:11] SPEAKER_01: We are playing uh go off or log off.
[43:14] SPEAKER_01: Go off to the to the viewers.
[43:16] SPEAKER_01: It basically means you agree, like yes, go off, sis.
[43:19] SPEAKER_01: Log off means absolutely not.
[43:21] SPEAKER_01: I'm not with it.
[43:23] SPEAKER_01: So, first question people confuse having taste with having money.
[43:29] SPEAKER_00: Yes, go off.
[43:31] SPEAKER_00: I definitely agree with that.
[43:33] SPEAKER_01: Elaborate a little bit.
[43:34] SPEAKER_00: Uh there are a lot of hacky people in the world, um, and money has nothing to do with that.
[43:43] SPEAKER_00: You know, I re growing up, my mom was is the chicest woman that I know, and we didn't have a lot of money.
[43:50] SPEAKER_00: We weren't poor, but we weren't rich either.
[43:53] SPEAKER_01: So you don't need money to be fashionable.
[43:55] SPEAKER_01: No, absolutely not.
[43:56] SPEAKER_02: Okay, it helps.
[43:58] SPEAKER_02: I'm sure it does, right.
[44:00] SPEAKER_02: A well-fitted outfit always beats an expensive one.
[44:04] SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
[44:05] SPEAKER_00: I believe you can buy a cheap suit and tailor it, and it'll look better than a person that just went in the store and spent thousands on something that's not tailored for sure.
[44:16] SPEAKER_00: I might be going against my brand, but I mean it tailoring is key.
[44:25] SPEAKER_00: If you're not getting custom clothes made, your clothes should be getting tailored, period.
[44:28] SPEAKER_01: The fashion industry is not more inclusive.
[44:31] SPEAKER_01: We've just rebranded that.
[44:33] SPEAKER_00: I would say I think it's very performative and very trend driven.
[44:42] SPEAKER_00: And trends expand into like business practices and not just clothing and fashion.
[44:50] SPEAKER_00: Like it's tr it was trendy to be inclusive to black designers after George Floyd.
[44:57] SPEAKER_00: But when the rubber hit the road and the industry started suffering and the stores started losing money, the designers of color were the first ones to be dropped.
[45:09] SPEAKER_00: And I think the intention was good, but the heart wasn't in it.
[45:15] SPEAKER_00: Do you think the runways look different now?
[45:19] SPEAKER_00: I mean, I know there was a time when there were like 13, 14 black designers showing at New York Fashion Week, and I think there was only like three or four of us last season.
[45:28] SPEAKER_00: So that's self-evident.
[45:30] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you can see it.
[45:31] SPEAKER_00: You know?
[45:32] SPEAKER_02: Um true luxury is subtle.
[45:35] SPEAKER_02: It's quiet.
[45:36] SPEAKER_00: I definitely know.
[45:40] SPEAKER_00: No quiet luxury.
[45:41] SPEAKER_00: No, I mean I don't mind it, but I don't think luxury can be defined as one or the other.
[45:49] SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
[45:51] SPEAKER_00: Because you gotta think about it.
[45:52] SPEAKER_00: Like you had Coco Chanel and you had Christian Dior designing clothes at the same time.
[45:58] SPEAKER_00: Elsa Scaparelli.
[46:01] SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
[46:02] SPEAKER_00: Like that's it's nothing minimal about any of that.
[46:07] SPEAKER_00: So I think it's it's a place where both of them live.
[46:09] SPEAKER_00: You know, you have quiet luxury and you have like bold luxury.
[46:13] SPEAKER_00: But there's a line you can cross where it's tacky luxury.
[46:17] SPEAKER_00: But I don't think um maximalism equals tacky.
[46:22] unknown: Yeah.
[46:23] SPEAKER_01: Uh viral outfits rarely look stylish in real life.
[46:29] SPEAKER_00: I don't agree with that.
[46:31] SPEAKER_00: I mean, my outfit that Michelle Obama was looks great in person.
[46:36] SPEAKER_02: And it was viral.
[46:39] SPEAKER_02: Um being overdressed is always better than being underdressed.
[46:44] SPEAKER_00: I definitely agree.
[46:47] SPEAKER_00: Um I always tell my husband, because he's the type that he's from DC, so he likes to be dressed for the occasion and for the season.
[46:56] SPEAKER_00: And I always tell him, well, just wear the suit.
[46:59] SPEAKER_00: Nobody's gonna be like, why he got a suit on, but they gonna be like, why he got jeans on.
[47:03] SPEAKER_00: So, you know, yeah.
[47:06] SPEAKER_01: Stand out.
[47:07] SPEAKER_01: Um, my last one is fast fashion has made personal style worse.
[47:17] SPEAKER_00: I don't I'm kind of on the fence on that.
[47:20] SPEAKER_00: I definitely don't like fast fashion because obvious reasons that we don't have to go into.
[47:26] SPEAKER_00: But I think the girls, they be dressed down in they, you know, I ain't gonna call no names.
[47:33] SPEAKER_00: They be dressed down in the little clothes made in Asia.
[47:37] SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
[47:38] SPEAKER_02: Go off with your bara.
[47:41] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like they they I ain't gonna lie.
[47:43] SPEAKER_00: Sometimes I look at the clothes and I'm like, damn, how they made that so cheap.
[47:48] SPEAKER_00: And the qual sometimes the quality is amazing.
[47:54] SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
[47:55] SPEAKER_00: The one that you know that just got the legendary designer that's working with them now, they trip me up quite often.
[48:03] SPEAKER_00: Okay, they knocked off one of my jacks one time and I looked at it like they made it better.
[48:11] SPEAKER_00: I didn't do all that.
[48:13] SPEAKER_00: I didn't do all that.
[48:14] SPEAKER_00: What is all this inside of here?
[48:16] SPEAKER_02: Like because I thought it was gonna be, what was it?
[48:18] SPEAKER_02: It uh the Chevrolet looks like a Maybach till the Maybach rolls up.
[48:22] SPEAKER_00: You know?
[48:23] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, I look.
[48:24] SPEAKER_00: I mean, obviously, there's a quality of fabrication that's different.
[48:29] SPEAKER_00: You know, I use 100% silk lining, they're never gonna do that.
[48:33] SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, it's we are not the same.
[48:36] SPEAKER_00: Custom shoulder pads, you know, things like that.
[48:38] SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
[48:39] SPEAKER_00: But their quality, something I don't I don't know how they do it, to be honest.
[48:43] SPEAKER_00: I'm like, it's no way on earth I could make that for that price.
[48:48] SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
[48:48] SPEAKER_02: I do have uh sorry, one more, um, which is outfit repeating is a flex, not a crime.
[48:55] SPEAKER_00: I definitely believe that.
[48:57] SPEAKER_02: Oh.
[48:58] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I love when people wear stuff again.
[49:01] SPEAKER_00: It's yours.
[49:03] SPEAKER_01: My bank account's happy to hear that.
[49:04] SPEAKER_00: And it was expensive.
[49:06] SPEAKER_01: Um, I'm curious, what is one thing that immediately tells you somebody has fashion sets?
[49:12] SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
[49:13] SPEAKER_00: So, whenever I see a woman in a white blouse, I always think she's stylish.
[49:21] SPEAKER_02: Why white blouse?
[49:23] SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
[49:24] SPEAKER_00: Think about it.
[49:25] SPEAKER_00: Whenever you see a woman that just has on like a crisp white blouse, whether it be bigger or smaller or a man's shirt, it's something chic about it.
[49:36] SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
[49:36] SPEAKER_00: Because she knows the simplicity of it carries.
[49:41] SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
[49:42] SPEAKER_02: She doesn't have to do too much.
[49:43] SPEAKER_00: I've never seen a woman look bad in a white blouse.
[49:46] SPEAKER_02: What should we avoid?
[49:47] SPEAKER_02: What is like don't do this?
[49:48] SPEAKER_02: It's the big fashion no-no.
[49:51] SPEAKER_00: I think avoid things that don't feel natural to you.
[49:56] SPEAKER_00: Cause we can see it.
[49:58] SPEAKER_00: Like I can see when a woman isn't comfortable in a heel.
[50:07] SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
[50:07] SPEAKER_01: Yes.
[50:08] SPEAKER_00: It's like you can tell when a woman is not comfortable with a bunch of makeup on or, you know, long hair.
[50:15] SPEAKER_00: Like, wear what's natural to you.
[50:18] SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
[50:19] SPEAKER_00: Force yourself, but some I'm this is the thing.
[50:21] SPEAKER_00: I'm not saying don't force yourself to step outside of the box.
[50:25] SPEAKER_00: But have you ever stepped outside of the box into something that you didn't think you would like?
[50:31] SPEAKER_00: But then when you tried it, it felt natural.
[50:34] SPEAKER_00: If you don't feel natural, don't do it.
[50:37] SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
[50:37] SPEAKER_00: Because we see it.
[50:39] SPEAKER_01: We can tell.
[50:40] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
[50:41] SPEAKER_01: Um, what's one trend that needs to die?
[50:45] SPEAKER_00: One trend that needs to die.
[50:48] SPEAKER_00: I hate super long hair.
[50:52] SPEAKER_02: Why?
[50:53] SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
[50:54] SPEAKER_00: How long though?
[50:55] SPEAKER_00: So, I'm talking about like down to your butt.
[50:59] SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm just like I'm over that.
[51:02] SPEAKER_00: Like, when are we, are we ever gonna stop?
[51:05] SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, and the girls love it.
[51:07] SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm telling you, even my girls, like, me and Kiki used to fight.
[51:12] SPEAKER_00: I'm be like, can we cut it?
[51:13] SPEAKER_00: Like, can we just be like a little shorter?
[51:15] SPEAKER_00: Like, do you feel like it overpowers like an ounce?
[51:18] SPEAKER_00: No, I'm just like over it.
[51:19] SPEAKER_00: Like, can we not make the hair the focus?
[51:21] SPEAKER_00: He's really passionate about that.
[51:23] SPEAKER_00: I really don't like that.
[51:24] SPEAKER_00: And I don't want to be at Applebee's and my waitress comes up to me with hair down her, but why is your hair so long?
[51:31] SPEAKER_00: Like, you are not Beyoncé.
[51:33] SPEAKER_00: We we not on stage.
[51:34] SPEAKER_00: Like, Beyonce don't wear her hair like that unless she's on stage.
[51:38] SPEAKER_00: I don't know why.
[51:39] SPEAKER_02: She has the band blowing back.
[51:40] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like what are you doing?
[51:41] SPEAKER_00: So that is one trend I really would like to die.
[51:45] SPEAKER_00: And baby hair.
[51:47] SPEAKER_00: But I can't.
[51:49] SPEAKER_01: You might be the second person on this podcast.
[51:50] SPEAKER_01: Well, not because it's it's becoming like teenage hair, right?
[51:53] SPEAKER_01: Like we're getting grown.
[51:55] SPEAKER_00: Grown hair.
[51:55] SPEAKER_00: And my 15-year-old, like, when I tell you she fights me, I was like, you coming to fashion week and getting your hair braided.
[52:03] SPEAKER_00: I sent messages to the hairstylist.
[52:05] SPEAKER_00: I was like, please take that baby hair down.
[52:08] SPEAKER_00: Like, just put in the hair.
[52:10] SPEAKER_00: She still came to New York.
[52:11] SPEAKER_00: I was like, oh.
[52:12] SPEAKER_01: Behind her back from Texas.
[52:15] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that baby hair's got like a chokehold on it.
[52:18] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm like, oh my God.
[52:20] SPEAKER_00: So that, and I feel like, um You said the the shoe thing, remember?
[52:26] SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
[52:27] SPEAKER_00: I would say this.
[52:28] SPEAKER_00: I'm not a kid in here person unless you're like 80.
[52:33] SPEAKER_00: And then it's like, okay, you still want to feel like you got a little heel on, but I don't want to see a 25-year-old in the kitten here.
[52:41] SPEAKER_00: I'm a millennial, okay?
[52:43] SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
[52:43] SPEAKER_00: So I came up in the early 2000s and the girls were stepping.
[52:47] SPEAKER_00: Like we were going to the visions in Atlanta.
[52:52] SPEAKER_00: The girls was lying about the door in five-inch cheap shoeland heels.
[52:57] SPEAKER_00: The girls were not playing back then, but these young, these young girls now.
[53:01] SPEAKER_02: Sergio, it's I feel like it's the quiet luxury trend, though.
[53:05] SPEAKER_02: Like you're all, they're all looking like they're in their 40s with two kids.
[53:09] SPEAKER_02: I know the pandemic hit and suddenly we realized.
[53:13] SPEAKER_00: But I like a good flat.
[53:16] SPEAKER_00: So you're saying get rid of the heel.
[53:17] SPEAKER_01: He's saying be decisive.
[53:19] SPEAKER_01: Either we're going flat or we're going four or five inches.
[53:22] SPEAKER_00: Yes.
[53:22] SPEAKER_00: And you, that's all you will ever see on my runway.
[53:25] SPEAKER_00: And you can call me Sauvinistic or whatever you want to call it, but that's what my mom wear, and that's my muse.
[53:32] SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna call you a millennial.
[53:33] SPEAKER_01: Yes.
[53:33] SPEAKER_00: It is what it is.
[53:35] SPEAKER_01: You mentioned it real quick, um, or you did uh quiet luxury.
[53:38] SPEAKER_01: For it, against it.
[53:41] SPEAKER_01: We took it too far.
[53:44] SPEAKER_01: Okay.
[53:45] SPEAKER_00: I'm tired of hearing it.
[53:46] SPEAKER_00: Because it's like it's always been a thing.
[53:49] SPEAKER_00: Yeah like I feel like Cucanella isn't a new brand.
[53:53] SPEAKER_00: Like, girls have been wearing the role forever.
[53:55] SPEAKER_00: That's why it's outselling everybody in the stores.
[53:58] SPEAKER_00: I just kind of feel like when they came up with that term, they put a name on it.
[54:02] SPEAKER_00: But I feel like it's always been the minimal people and the maximal people and the people that are somewhere in the middle.
[54:08] SPEAKER_00: I feel like being in the middle is good.
[54:11] SPEAKER_00: I feel like having on like an all-cream outfit, you know, a little giving a little, you know, scroll through the day, but still very chic is good.
[54:23] SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
[54:23] SPEAKER_00: But I don't, I think all of one thing is bad.
[54:26] SPEAKER_00: What should we bring back?
[54:28] SPEAKER_00: What should we bring back?
[54:30] SPEAKER_00: Definitely the stiletto, clearly.
[54:31] SPEAKER_00: Rocking stilettos.
[54:32] SPEAKER_02: In the club.
[54:34] SPEAKER_00: Okay.
[54:34] SPEAKER_00: I was actually in the club when that song used to come out.
[54:39] SPEAKER_02: We've been here.
[54:40] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so it's kind of like, yeah, I mean, I want people to dress up again.
[54:44] SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
[54:45] SPEAKER_00: Like I remember, you know, being in college and just watching the girls get ready, and they would just put on their heels and their stockings, you know, the fish nets back then.
[54:57] SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
[54:58] SPEAKER_01: If your feet weren't sore at the end of the night, you didn't do it right.
[55:00] SPEAKER_00: No, and they was not taking their shoes off.
[55:03] SPEAKER_00: No, no.
[55:03] SPEAKER_00: Flat and the purse?
[55:04] SPEAKER_01: Absolutely not.
[55:05] SPEAKER_00: No, like I be watching people at my show, like, they come to the show and they heals and they be, I'm like, you were just sitting at the show.
[55:13] SPEAKER_01: We used to dance.
[55:14] SPEAKER_01: You ain't about it, right, right.
[55:18] SPEAKER_01: I I love it.
[55:19] SPEAKER_01: You run a strict program, but I love it.
[55:21] SPEAKER_00: I love it.
[55:22] SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for coming on off the record and going off on a number of things.
[55:26] SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
[55:28] SPEAKER_01: We appreciate it.
[55:29] SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes.
[55:30] SPEAKER_01: And uh, of course, we are cheering you on continued success.
[55:33] SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
[55:33] SPEAKER_01: And thank you for joining us on this episode of Off the Record.
[55:36] SPEAKER_01: Make sure you subscribe, Off the Record on YouTube, and Off the Record Podcast on Instagram.
[55:40] SPEAKER_01: We will see you on the next one with some four or five inch heels, y'all.
[55:45] SPEAKER_01: In the glass

Shows are listed from Apple Podcasts' charts and directory, and Podcast Index where it is used. Every show and episode belongs to its publisher and plays from the publisher's own feed; this site hosts none of them.