# \[Go Awf\] Kennedy Ryan on Why Publishing Keeps Underestimating Black Women

An episode of [Awf The Record](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1758650789), 14 Jul 2026, 6:12.

Audio: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2372866/episodes/19490502-go-awf-kennedy-ryan-on-why-publishing-keeps-underestimating-black-women.mp3

Send us Fan Mail Kennedy Ryan knows exactly who she’s writing for, and she refuses to let publishing’s outdated assumptions shrink that vision. In this segment, Kennedy opens up about centering Black women on the page, on the cover, and in the audience, even when the industry suggests that doing so could limit sales or mainstream appeal. She breaks down why Black women are not a niche market, but a powerful readership with their own economy, cultural influence, and buying power. From sold-out theaters to New York Times bestseller lists, Kennedy makes it clear that when Black women are centered and celebrated, they show up, bring their people, and move the culture forward. This conversation is also a reminder for any creative trying to build with conviction: know your why, write from your center, and be prepared to fight for the stories that matter most. GUEST RESOURCES Kennedy Ryan Website | kennedyryanwrites.com/about/ IG | @kennedyryan1 Keep in touch with Awf The Record: Youtube: @AwfTheRecord Instagram: @awftherecordpodcast TikTok: @AwfTheRecord Mona Kosar Abdi IG | @monakabdi Jeannette Reyes IG | @msnewslady Keep in touch with Awf The Record: Watch on Youtube: @AwfTheRecord Follow us on Instagram: @awftherecordpodcast Follow us on TikTok: @AwfTheRecord Visit our website: www.AwfTheRecord.com Follow Mona on TikTok and IG Follow Jeannette on TikTok and IG

## Transcript

[0:00] SPEAKER_00: Good evening, your time now is 552.
[0:01] SPEAKER_00: I'm Jeanette Reyes.
[0:02] SPEAKER_00: And I'm Monaco Saravdi, and this is off the record.
[0:05] SPEAKER_00: Not for real.
[0:06] SPEAKER_00: This is off the record.
[0:08] SPEAKER_00: You not only make black women feel seen, but you actually literally on the cover, the illustrations are black women, black men and women.
[0:16] SPEAKER_00: I want to talk to you about that because I'm sorry, but we live in a capitalistic society and people will tell you, book publishers will tell you, hey, this may hurt your sales.
[0:25] SPEAKER_00: If you are in Target, if you are in uh Barnes and Noble, people may not gravitate towards that because they'll say, Oh, that is for black people.
[0:32] SPEAKER_00: Right.
[0:33] SPEAKER_00: Did you have those conversations?
[0:35] SPEAKER_01: I that convers I had heard that conversation.
[0:38] SPEAKER_01: I think at a certain point in my career, I had bought into that.
[0:40] SPEAKER_01: Like, oh, that's right.
[0:42] SPEAKER_01: But at a certain point, uh it's like uh something clicked for me.
[0:49] SPEAKER_01: And I said, Who are people?
[0:51] SPEAKER_01: Who is people?
[0:53] SPEAKER_01: Because the person that I am writing this book for, and the per, I mean, everybody's invited.
[0:58] SPEAKER_01: You white, you're Latina, you're Asian, you're whatever, you are invited to the party, but it's a black woman on the page, right?
[1:05] SPEAKER_01: And so a black woman is my most reliable customer, my most reliable consumer.
[1:12] SPEAKER_01: She does want to see herself on the cover.
[1:14] SPEAKER_01: So it may be that there, it may be that everybody doesn't want it, but there's going to be a broad segment of the buying public that is pleased to see black women on the cover.
[1:25] SPEAKER_01: And that's who I'm, that's who I'm drawing.
[1:28] SPEAKER_01: I draw, I mean, so when I just, you know, was on tour and we did a theater tour, uh, which is for me 800 to 1,000 people at every stop.
[1:39] SPEAKER_01: The beauty of seeing, you know, the Lincoln Theater in DC packed from bottom to top with black women.
[1:47] SPEAKER_01: Or in Atlanta, we were just in Decatur First Baptist, a thousand readers packed from the bottom all the way up to the balcony, black women everywhere.
[1:57] SPEAKER_01: Like for me, that is the movement.
[2:00] SPEAKER_01: You know, and I'm not just talking about me as a writer, I'm talking about black romance writers.
[2:04] SPEAKER_01: Like in a lot of us are centering ourselves because we understand we have our own economy.
[2:11] SPEAKER_01: You know, we do live in a capitalist, capitalistic society.
[2:14] SPEAKER_01: But if you create a space where black women are centered and celebrated and the default is not whiteness, but the default is us, then we will come.
[2:23] SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
[2:24] SPEAKER_01: And we come in droves to support that because it's not seen enough.
[2:29] SPEAKER_01: And so when we come to a space, when we come to an artist, when we come to a writer, when we come to a story where we're centered and celebrated, not only do we come, we tell our friends, we bring our friends.
[2:40] SPEAKER_01: You know, my last three books have been on the New York Times bestseller list on the most competitive, which is adult fiction.
[2:47] SPEAKER_01: And I, and it's rare.
[2:49] SPEAKER_01: It is very rare for a black author to be on that list, much less a black romance author.
[2:54] SPEAKER_01: And I, I, if I had not clicked into what we're talking about now, that wouldn't have happened.
[3:00] SPEAKER_01: Black women put me there.
[3:01] SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
[3:02] SPEAKER_01: And it's not that there's no one else, but I understand, I understand who my most reliable consumer is.
[3:08] SPEAKER_01: And people somehow project that black women don't read when statistically the person who is most likely to buy a book is a black woman.
[3:16] SPEAKER_01: The person demographically who is the most educated is a black woman.
[3:20] SPEAKER_01: And so creating a space where that woman who is the most likely to buy a book, who is the most educated, sees herself centered and celebrated, I think that it makes sense.
[3:30] SPEAKER_01: Economically, it makes sense.
[3:32] SPEAKER_01: And I think that when publishing neglects that, they shoot themselves in the foot because racism costs us all money.
[3:38] SPEAKER_01: And what is the lesson there?
[3:40] SPEAKER_00: If you were gonna tell a young author, if you're gonna push back against these norms, quote unquote, what is the lesson?
[3:48] SPEAKER_01: I think the lesson is, and it's a lesson that I learned as I went throughout my career, is first of all, you you can't be in it just for that.
[4:00] SPEAKER_01: Do you know what I mean?
[4:01] SPEAKER_01: Because you never know what's gonna hid.
[4:03] SPEAKER_01: You never know what's gonna be successful.
[4:04] SPEAKER_01: You never, so it can't just be, it can't just be money.
[4:07] SPEAKER_01: It can't just be, I want to make money.
[4:10] SPEAKER_01: Um, you're gonna make a different set of decisions if that's the case.
[4:14] SPEAKER_01: For me, it wasn't me saying, I just want to make money.
[4:17] SPEAKER_01: It's me saying, this doesn't mean as much to me.
[4:20] SPEAKER_01: It doesn't mean as much to me if I'm not writing, centering and celebrating black women, chronically ill women, um, disabled women, like that segment of society that has not been seen at the center.
[4:35] SPEAKER_01: Um, I would say you have to figure it out for yourself.
[4:39] SPEAKER_01: Like you have to figure out what your own center is.
[4:41] SPEAKER_01: You have to figure out what your own convictions are, what your own beliefs are, and not write to anyone else's.
[4:46] SPEAKER_01: And I call it your why.
[4:48] SPEAKER_01: So the first thing I would say is figure out your why.
[4:50] SPEAKER_01: Why are you writing?
[4:51] SPEAKER_01: And at when I first started, I don't think I really had that.
[4:54] SPEAKER_01: But as that crystallized for me, that I wanted to write people who are not seen at the center, I wanted to write them from the margins to the center.
[5:03] SPEAKER_01: As that crystallized for me, it shaped, it reshaped everything.
[5:06] SPEAKER_01: So that would be the first thing I would say is figure out your why.
[5:10] SPEAKER_01: Um, and the second thing I would say is be prepared to fight, you know, because it it is a fight.
[5:17] SPEAKER_01: I think that people see me on like good morning, America or whatever, you know, on TV and um doing well.
[5:24] SPEAKER_01: And they're like, well, I guess it's pretty easy for Kennedy.
[5:26] SPEAKER_01: No, it's not.
[5:27] SPEAKER_01: I am still navigating systems of white supremacy like anyone else is.
[5:32] SPEAKER_01: And I also often feel like every time I release a new book, I start over.
[5:37] SPEAKER_01: And why?
[5:37] SPEAKER_01: And I have to, I have to prove myself to retailers, to um, to the publishing industry.
[5:43] SPEAKER_01: I'm assuming you don't get the benefit of the doubt.
[5:45] SPEAKER_01: You don't have the legs.
[5:46] SPEAKER_01: No, no, no, there's no benefit of the doubt.
[5:48] SPEAKER_01: It's gotta be hit after it.
[5:49] SPEAKER_01: It does.
[5:50] SPEAKER_01: And it and I say that meaning you would think, okay, so Kennedy hit the New York Times list, Kennedy sold out, you know, in her first week, Kennedy, whatever, that it would be like, oh, well, we should really stop Kennedy.
[6:01] SPEAKER_01: No, I, you know, we're fighting to get me on the shelves just for visibility.

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