# Butch Vig: Producing Legends: the journey creating the 90's rock sound

An episode of [Tony Mantor's : Almost Live..... Nashville](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1751194045), 8 Jan 2026, 27 min.

Audio: https://podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/c41d385f-64b2-4514-9415-b4d50130ce01/159b4dd0-310f-4e5d-ab14-b4d5016bacaa/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=d1742151-672b-4e4d-997b-b4d50130ce0c

From Studio Trenches to the Spotlight: An Interview with Butch Vig In this episode of Almost Live Nashville, host Tony Manor converses with Butch Vig, the acclaimed record producer, songwriter, and drummer for the rock band Garbage. Vig shares insights from his illustrious career, including pivotal moments that spurred his journey into music production. He discusses his experiences working with iconic bands such as Nirvana, Smashing Pumpkins, Foo Fighters, and Green Day, and delves into the intricacies of music production. Vig also talks about his current involvement with Joey's Song, a music charity, and his latest projects in film scoring and recording with Garbage. Listeners are treated to behind-the-scenes stories, the creative processes involved in making timeless records, and the dynamic challenges of working with various artists in the studio. Meet Butch Vig: The Man Behind the Music Early Career and First Big Breaks Producing Iconic Records Challenges and Dynamics in Music Production Joey's Song: A Charitable Endeavor Future Projects and Closing Remarks INTRO/OUTRO: T. Wild Mantor Music BMI See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:14] Speaker 1: My career in the entertainment industry has enabled me to
[0:17] Speaker 1: work with a diverse range of talent through my years
[0:20] Speaker 1: of experience i've recognized two essential aspects industry professionals whether
[0:26] Speaker 1: famous stars or behind the scenes staff have fascinating stories
[0:31] Speaker 1: to tell. Secondly, audiences are eager to listen to these stories,
[0:36] Speaker 1: which offer a glimpse into their lives and the evolution
[0:39] Speaker 1: of their life stories. This podcast aims to share these narratives,
[0:43] Speaker 1: providing information on how they evolve into their chosen career.
[0:48] Speaker 1: We will delve into their journey to stardom, discuss their
[0:50] Speaker 1: struggles and successes, and hear from people who helped them
[0:54] Speaker 1: achieve their goals. Get ready for intriguing behind-the-scenes stories and
[0:58] Speaker 1: insights into the fascinating world of entertainment. Hi, I'm Tony Mantor.
[1:05] Speaker 1: Welcome to Almost Live Nashville. Joining us today is Butch Figg.
[1:09] Speaker 1: He's a record producer, songwriter, the drummer and co-producer of
[1:13] Speaker 1: the rock band Garbage, which has sold over 17 million
[1:16] Speaker 1: records worldwide. He's also produced Nirvana, The Smashing Pumpkins, The
[1:21] Speaker 1: Foo Fighters, Green Day, and and so many others. He's
[1:25] Speaker 1: got untold stories from the studio trenches, wisdom on crafting
[1:29] Speaker 1: timeless records, and that unmistakable drive that keeps him innovating.
[1:34] Speaker 1: He's proved he wasn't just producing the sound of a generation.
[1:37] Speaker 1: He was part of it. He's here to talk about
[1:39] Speaker 1: all of that and how he is using his platform now,
[1:43] Speaker 1: supporting a charity that gives back through music, creativity, and community.
[1:48] Speaker 1: So before we dive into our episode, we'll be back
[1:50] Speaker 1: with an uninterrupted show right after a word from our sponsors.
[1:54] Speaker 1: Thanks for coming on.
[1:55] Speaker 2: Well, thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here, man.
[1:58] Speaker 1: Yes, a pleasure to have you here. Let's kick it
[2:01] Speaker 1: off with a question about the early days of your career.
[2:05] Speaker 1: Do you have a memory of that first moment where
[2:08] Speaker 1: you was working on a project, and then you said, wow,
[2:11] Speaker 1: this is real. I'm here.
[2:13] Speaker 2: It was probably, well, I've been lucky to spend my
[2:16] Speaker 2: whole life making music. And I was in bands for
[2:20] Speaker 2: many years, even through college when I went to UW-Madison.
[2:24] Speaker 2: And playing in bands there, and we started recording our
[2:26] Speaker 2: own music. And it was with my band Spooner, who
[2:29] Speaker 2: was also Duke Erickson and Garbage. We were bandmates back then,
[2:33] Speaker 2: back in the 80s. Long time ago. I became very
[2:36] Speaker 2: interested in recording and we were making the first Spooner
[2:39] Speaker 2: album and Gary Klebe from the band Shoes was producing it.
[2:44] Speaker 2: And the whole session I was sitting there next to
[2:46] Speaker 2: him going, why are you doing this? Why are you
[2:48] Speaker 2: EQing this? Why are you compressing this? What's going on here?
[2:51] Speaker 2: At the end of the record, Gary turned to me
[2:52] Speaker 2: and said, you should get into producing and engineering because
[2:56] Speaker 2: I can tell it's in your DNA. You really want
[2:58] Speaker 2: to do it. So he was very instrumental in pushing
[3:02] Speaker 2: me gently to jump into production and engineering and producing.
[3:06] Speaker 2: And then post-college, I started Smart Studios with my other
[3:10] Speaker 2: bandmate in Garbage, Steve Marker. And the first album I
[3:13] Speaker 2: produced at Smart was for a band called Sometimes Why
[3:17] Speaker 2: from Minneapolis. They just turned to me. I was just engineering.
[3:20] Speaker 2: And they turned to me and said, well, you're producing this, right?
[3:22] Speaker 2: And I go, sure. And I was not even quite
[3:26] Speaker 2: sure exactly what a producer does exactly, except have an opinion.
[3:30] Speaker 2: And if you have an opinion... You can be a
[3:32] Speaker 2: record producer.
[3:33] Speaker 1: Yeah, I get that. I think I fall under that
[3:36] Speaker 1: umbrella as well. So you've been around many different bands
[3:39] Speaker 1: that just seem to blow up in a good way.
[3:43] Speaker 1: Sometimes it seemed like they were just there overnight, but
[3:46] Speaker 1: as we know, there is no overnight success. So what
[3:49] Speaker 1: did that feel like and how were your emotions when
[3:52] Speaker 1: you had that first big hit record out there?
[3:54] Speaker 2: Well, really, the first record that got a lot of
[3:56] Speaker 2: buzz for me was Gish with Smashing Pumpkins. And that
[4:01] Speaker 2: was honestly sort of the first big budget record I did.
[4:04] Speaker 2: And even though we did the record in like 30 days,
[4:07] Speaker 2: but it was enough time to really delve into the
[4:10] Speaker 2: sound and the drums and the guitars and the tones
[4:13] Speaker 2: and really nurture the performances. And up until then, I
[4:17] Speaker 2: had done probably 500 punk rock records, which I did
[4:20] Speaker 2: in a day or two days. You'd record everything on
[4:22] Speaker 2: day one and mix it all on day two. There
[4:24] Speaker 2: were zero budgets. And very much where I came from
[4:26] Speaker 2: was Spooner. It was all DIY. There were no budgets.
[4:29] Speaker 2: But that was the first sort of record where I
[4:32] Speaker 2: had the time. I could get all my ideas into
[4:35] Speaker 2: the songs. And I pushed Billy Corgan. And Billy Corgan
[4:38] Speaker 2: pushed me back. And we raised the bar in terms
[4:41] Speaker 2: of what you could do for an indie rock record.
[4:43] Speaker 2: That got a lot of attention. And shortly after that,
[4:46] Speaker 2: I went to LA to work with Nirvana. At the
[4:49] Speaker 2: time I started recording Nevermind, Gish had just come out
[4:52] Speaker 2: and was getting a lot of buzz. So very quickly,
[4:54] Speaker 2: those two records just kind of took off.
[4:56] Speaker 1: It's always nice when they just take off. Did you
[4:59] Speaker 1: do Billy's in Chicago? He's been on this podcast and
[5:02] Speaker 1: mentioned Chicago quite frequently.
[5:04] Speaker 2: Well, he, yeah, he's talked about Chicago. He'll tell you
[5:07] Speaker 2: how horrible the scene was there. A lot of backstabbing
[5:10] Speaker 2: going on, depending on what neighborhood or what clan you
[5:13] Speaker 2: hung with. No, we did those records at my studio
[5:15] Speaker 2: in Madison. I remember specifically the day before. I got
[5:18] Speaker 2: a call out of the blue, like on a Sunday afternoon,
[5:20] Speaker 2: I was in smart and I picked up the phone
[5:22] Speaker 2: and this very effeminate voice said, hi, I really like
[5:25] Speaker 2: the kill. Those are records you do. I have a
[5:27] Speaker 2: band named smashing pumpkins. Could we come up and record
[5:29] Speaker 2: a single for sub pop? I'm like, sure. And I
[5:32] Speaker 2: had never seen them play live, but I'd heard of them.
[5:36] Speaker 2: And when they showed up, it was like, uh, they
[5:40] Speaker 2: did not look like any other rock band that had
[5:42] Speaker 2: come through smart studios doors at that time. And then
[5:45] Speaker 2: they started playing, and I was just completely blown away. Yeah,
[5:48] Speaker 2: blown away.
[5:49] Speaker 1: Yeah, that's awesome. Now, how long after that was it
[5:52] Speaker 1: when you had the Foo Fighters?
[5:54] Speaker 2: Well, it's all compressed into so many time frames here.
[5:58] Speaker 2: So the early 90s, I did pretty quickly GISH. And
[6:03] Speaker 2: never mind. And then after that, I went back and
[6:05] Speaker 2: worked with the Pumpkins again doing Siamese Dream. But I
[6:08] Speaker 2: also worked with Sonic Youth doing Dirty. And I was
[6:10] Speaker 2: on a roll with doing projects that had jumped up
[6:14] Speaker 2: to the major label. I worked with Freedy Johnson. I
[6:16] Speaker 2: worked with Soul Asylum L7. And that was a good,
[6:20] Speaker 2: a very intense time period because I did not stop working.
[6:24] Speaker 2: I basically lived in the studio, Tony, for about 10 years.
[6:29] Speaker 2: I've been there. Yeah, you just live in the studio.
[6:31] Speaker 2: You're there 14 hours a day. If you're lucky to
[6:34] Speaker 2: go outside and sleep for a few hours, you come
[6:36] Speaker 2: back in and then you start up again. But I
[6:38] Speaker 2: loved it. It was incredible. And when you're doing something
[6:41] Speaker 2: you love, it doesn't even feel like work.
[6:43] Speaker 1: That's so true. And one of the best things about
[6:46] Speaker 1: it is the creation of the music. There's nothing like
[6:50] Speaker 1: creating something new in the studio. I've been in bands.
[6:53] Speaker 1: I've been a singer on stage, done songwriting. There's nothing
[6:57] Speaker 1: like being in the studio creating new music.
[6:59] Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know, I'm very lucky. I wear two hats.
[7:03] Speaker 2: I'm a record producer, and I love being in the studio.
[7:05] Speaker 2: I've also been in bands. I just came off of
[7:07] Speaker 2: playing 60 shows with Garbage this year, which is a
[7:10] Speaker 2: lot for us. And the shows have been fantastic, but
[7:12] Speaker 2: I'm so happy to be home sitting in my recording
[7:15] Speaker 2: studio here. I prefer the studio only because it's like
[7:20] Speaker 2: a creative palette and every day I walk in and
[7:23] Speaker 2: I think something's going to happen and then something unusual
[7:26] Speaker 2: happens and there's always detours in the process. You get
[7:30] Speaker 2: on these paths you have no idea you're going to
[7:32] Speaker 2: do and I'm somewhat addicted to it. I mean, being
[7:35] Speaker 2: in a recording studio and writing and recording is just
[7:38] Speaker 2: an incredible experience.
[7:39] Speaker 1: Oh, I get that 100%. I never saw myself coming
[7:43] Speaker 1: off the stage and getting into production work Now that
[7:46] Speaker 1: I've done that, I wouldn't want it any other way. Now,
[7:49] Speaker 1: with that said, you get a chance to see things
[7:51] Speaker 1: that most people never get a chance to see. Some
[7:54] Speaker 1: very cool behind the scene things that no one will
[7:58] Speaker 1: ever see. Is there anything that just stands out to
[8:01] Speaker 1: you from all those years?
[8:03] Speaker 2: Well, man, that's a tough question because every session that
[8:06] Speaker 2: I do, every artist who I work with, they have
[8:09] Speaker 2: unique personalities. Yeah, I get that. And they have a
[8:14] Speaker 2: unique perspective and hopefully a vision of what they want
[8:17] Speaker 2: to accomplish.
[8:19] Speaker 1: Sure. Everyone's different there.
[8:21] Speaker 2: The first thing I do as a producer is I
[8:22] Speaker 2: try to understand what that is. And remember, it's not
[8:26] Speaker 2: my record. It's their record. So it's important for me
[8:29] Speaker 2: to understand where they're going. And then really 50% of
[8:33] Speaker 2: producing is psychological. You need to know when to push someone,
[8:37] Speaker 2: when to coddle them, when to sit back and let
[8:40] Speaker 2: them figure it out, when to take a break. when
[8:43] Speaker 2: to throw a tantrum. There's all these things that happen
[8:46] Speaker 2: in the creative process. And as I said earlier, it's
[8:48] Speaker 2: so unpredictable that you just have to be able to
[8:52] Speaker 2: very quickly adapt and go with the flow in the studio.
[8:55] Speaker 2: And hopefully when you do that, you're moving in a
[8:57] Speaker 2: positive direction. You know, there are days obviously working with
[9:00] Speaker 2: people where you hit roadblocks or there's tension within the
[9:02] Speaker 2: band or the song is a struggle. And then you
[9:05] Speaker 2: work your way through those. And hopefully what comes out
[9:07] Speaker 2: is something brilliant.
[9:09] Speaker 1: Yeah, I definitely get that. Now, It takes a certain
[9:11] Speaker 1: personality to be able to work with these bands and groups. Personally,
[9:16] Speaker 1: I've worked with a few. I tend to go more
[9:19] Speaker 1: towards a single artist. So what's your recipe to make
[9:22] Speaker 1: this work? As you know, when you're working with a group,
[9:25] Speaker 1: sometimes it's three, four, five different bandmates. They all have
[9:29] Speaker 1: their ideas where they would like to see it go.
[9:31] Speaker 1: So what's your recipe to make this work out so
[9:34] Speaker 1: it's a win-win for everyone involved?
[9:37] Speaker 2: Well, the first thing you have to understand is the
[9:39] Speaker 2: dynamic within the band or the people collaborating with each other.
[9:43] Speaker 2: There's usually someone who is sort of a primary leader
[9:47] Speaker 2: or making a lot of the decisions. That takes a
[9:51] Speaker 2: bit to figure out. I try to be cognizant of
[9:55] Speaker 2: the fact that I want everybody to be involved in
[9:57] Speaker 2: the process and be part of the creative process so
[10:00] Speaker 2: everyone feels involved. That takes some figuring out. It doesn't
[10:03] Speaker 2: happen on day one. It's like you have to just
[10:06] Speaker 2: get in the process and then it unfolds over a
[10:09] Speaker 2: couple days or even after maybe one song, you can
[10:12] Speaker 2: kind of figure out what the dynamic is. then you
[10:14] Speaker 2: know who to talk to, who to push, who to
[10:16] Speaker 2: stay away from if they're not having a good moment
[10:19] Speaker 2: or who I need to negotiate with. Sometimes you have
[10:23] Speaker 2: to sort of work out the politics within different band
[10:25] Speaker 2: members to figure out what is the best thing. Ultimately,
[10:28] Speaker 2: when you're making a record, you just want the songs
[10:31] Speaker 2: to be great and true to the band's vision, but
[10:33] Speaker 2: there are differing opinions.
[10:35] Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true.
[10:36] Speaker 2: You have to work through that. Sometimes Even in my
[10:40] Speaker 2: own band, Garbage, basically we're four producers. And there are
[10:43] Speaker 2: many times where I'm like, well, I got vetoed on this,
[10:46] Speaker 2: even though I know I'm right. The part I came
[10:48] Speaker 2: up with is great, but nobody likes it. Shirley doesn't
[10:51] Speaker 2: like it. Duke and Steve don't like it. It's part
[10:52] Speaker 2: of the creative process. You have to learn to go
[10:55] Speaker 2: with the flow and you have to be fluid and
[10:58] Speaker 2: understand what path you're going down.
[11:00] Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely. Now, what are some of the obstacles that
[11:03] Speaker 1: you've seen and then you've had to figure out a
[11:06] Speaker 1: way to overcome some of them? You could have been
[11:09] Speaker 1: on the side that you was right, like you just mentioned,
[11:12] Speaker 1: or you could have been on the other side. And
[11:14] Speaker 1: that might push against the ebb and flow of what
[11:17] Speaker 1: the band wants, but you know it's the right way
[11:19] Speaker 1: to go for them. Are there any challenges that come
[11:22] Speaker 1: to mind? And then when it was all said and done,
[11:25] Speaker 1: everybody's listened to it and they go, whoa, that was
[11:27] Speaker 1: definitely the right call.
[11:29] Speaker 2: That's also a really interesting question because within a band,
[11:32] Speaker 2: sometimes each song has its own dynamic, depending on what
[11:36] Speaker 2: people are playing or the approach they're taking to the song.
[11:40] Speaker 2: Sometimes what they're doing doesn't work. And even though that's
[11:44] Speaker 2: their part, they have played it to the point that
[11:46] Speaker 2: that's my part. I want to play that. And it's
[11:49] Speaker 2: hard to tell them or get them to understand or
[11:52] Speaker 2: listen to the overall big picture, understand everything. You need
[11:56] Speaker 2: to play less or this part probably shouldn't even be
[11:58] Speaker 2: in there, you know, because musicians and artists in general,
[12:02] Speaker 2: a lot of their creative process is sort of spontaneous
[12:05] Speaker 2: or within themselves. I don't think they're always thinking of
[12:08] Speaker 2: a big picture of how I have to fit in
[12:10] Speaker 2: with everybody. Obviously, in a band, you have to if
[12:12] Speaker 2: you're playing bass and drums, you have to know what
[12:14] Speaker 2: the rhythms are and where you're playing fills and what
[12:16] Speaker 2: the accents are. but it just depends on the band.
[12:19] Speaker 2: A lot of times I find that when I've gone
[12:21] Speaker 2: into a studio with rock bands, they've been in a
[12:24] Speaker 2: rehearsal room and they don't really listen to what everyone's doing. Overall,
[12:30] Speaker 2: the sound may be great, and so sometimes I'll start
[12:32] Speaker 2: a track and I'll just stop and go, okay, I
[12:34] Speaker 2: want just the drums and bass to play together. What
[12:36] Speaker 2: are you guys playing here? What is the rhythmic accent?
[12:39] Speaker 2: What is the feel? Are you pushing and pulling? What's
[12:41] Speaker 2: going on during the transitions in the chorus or the bridge, whatever?
[12:45] Speaker 2: You'd be surprised, but a lot of times the musicians
[12:47] Speaker 2: are like, wow, okay, I didn't know that's what was
[12:51] Speaker 2: going on. Because everybody's in their own mindset. So part
[12:54] Speaker 2: of producing is getting everybody who's recording to understand what
[12:58] Speaker 2: the big picture is and what exactly the arrangement is,
[13:00] Speaker 2: and then adapt to that. So hopefully it gets really focused.
[13:04] Speaker 2: I use that term a lot, Tony, with bands. It
[13:07] Speaker 2: needs to be more focused. I can hear a run-through
[13:09] Speaker 2: on a song, and sometimes I don't know what's wrong,
[13:13] Speaker 2: but it sounds messy or something's off. And it might
[13:15] Speaker 2: take me a while to figure out what that is,
[13:17] Speaker 2: but I keep telling the artist, okay, we need to
[13:20] Speaker 2: listen to this. It needs to be more focused. And
[13:22] Speaker 2: that's when I start to strip things back and play
[13:24] Speaker 2: things individually or question what everybody's doing to make sure
[13:27] Speaker 2: it all sort of hits the big picture.
[13:30] Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely makes sense. I mean, any one or two
[13:33] Speaker 1: things can have a slight rub against each other until
[13:36] Speaker 1: you strip it down and listen to it. It's hard
[13:39] Speaker 1: to know exactly which one it is, but then eventually
[13:42] Speaker 1: it stands out.
[13:43] Speaker 2: Yeah, sometimes even the simplest thing, a drum fill going
[13:45] Speaker 2: into a chorus could be a triplet and the bass
[13:48] Speaker 2: player is playing eighth notes. They should both be locked
[13:51] Speaker 2: into the same groove. Like I said, sometimes people aren't
[13:53] Speaker 2: aware of that until you really sort of break it
[13:55] Speaker 2: down in the studio or in pre-production and go through
[13:58] Speaker 2: all the bits of the song. And when it's all
[14:00] Speaker 2: focused and tight is when albums or songs sound incredible
[14:04] Speaker 2: because everyone's on the same wavelength.
[14:06] Speaker 1: That's so right. And that is so needed to make
[14:09] Speaker 1: a great song. Now, speaking of songs, have you ever
[14:12] Speaker 1: had anyone that has written a song? They love the song.
[14:17] Speaker 1: You listen to the song, but it's just not them.
[14:20] Speaker 1: Someone else needs to be singing it. but yet they're
[14:22] Speaker 1: so into it because they wrote it. They're not looking
[14:25] Speaker 1: at it objectively like you would be. Have you ever
[14:28] Speaker 1: run into situations like that?
[14:31] Speaker 2: Well, when I go in to work with a band,
[14:33] Speaker 2: they usually give me 10 or 12 songs and say,
[14:37] Speaker 2: we're ready to record, and then I'll listen to it
[14:39] Speaker 2: and go, okay, go home and write 20 more songs.
[14:42] Speaker 2: Out of those 30 songs, we'll be lucky to get
[14:44] Speaker 2: 10 killer songs.
[14:46] Speaker 1: Yeah, that's so very true.
[14:47] Speaker 2: Most artists just think we write something that's great. I'm
[14:50] Speaker 2: guilty of that. I'll write a song here in my
[14:51] Speaker 2: studio and show it to my garbage bandmates. How can
[14:53] Speaker 2: they not love this? And sometimes they don't love it. That's, again,
[14:57] Speaker 2: part of the creative process. So artists need to, I think,
[15:01] Speaker 2: when you're trying to push yourself, you write something that
[15:04] Speaker 2: is hopefully accessible, but also meaningful to you. Sometimes it
[15:09] Speaker 2: takes work. And the first thing that comes out of
[15:11] Speaker 2: your fingertips or out of your mouth or your guitar
[15:13] Speaker 2: or keyboard may seem brilliant. But sometimes it's just okay.
[15:17] Speaker 1: Absolutely. Seen that many times.
[15:20] Speaker 2: If you want to push yourself as an artist, you
[15:23] Speaker 2: have to put the work in. When we started Siamese Dream,
[15:26] Speaker 2: I went down to Chicago and I rode around with
[15:29] Speaker 2: Billy Corgan in a car. He was very secretive. He
[15:32] Speaker 2: had put a cassette in and he'd play a song,
[15:35] Speaker 2: a jam, like a demo or a rehearsal of the
[15:37] Speaker 2: new Pumpkins material. And then he'd stop and go, can't
[15:40] Speaker 2: play anymore. I go, dude, it's just you and me.
[15:42] Speaker 2: We're driving in a car. Just let me hear the song.
[15:44] Speaker 2: He go, I can't play it. He did that on
[15:46] Speaker 2: about 10 or maybe 12 songs while we were driving around.
[15:49] Speaker 2: He kind of stopped them all. After riding around for
[15:51] Speaker 2: about 90 minutes, he said, I'm not ready to make
[15:54] Speaker 2: the record. And I think it took me being in
[15:57] Speaker 2: a car with him and playing the songs with someone
[16:01] Speaker 2: else listening to them for him to understand. Also, I'm
[16:05] Speaker 2: halfway there in this. I'm three quarters here. This song
[16:07] Speaker 2: is great. This song needs reworking. And I think overall,
[16:10] Speaker 2: he just understood that he was not ready to go
[16:13] Speaker 2: in and start Siamese Dream. And part of that was
[16:15] Speaker 2: after we made Gish, there was a lot of pressure
[16:18] Speaker 2: after Nevermind, you know, because I'd worked with Billy before Nevermind.
[16:21] Speaker 2: And we even before we started Siamese Dream, people were
[16:23] Speaker 2: telling me it's going to be a massive record. I
[16:25] Speaker 2: kept saying, Well, I haven't heard a song yet. We
[16:27] Speaker 2: haven't gone in the studio and recorded anything. How can
[16:29] Speaker 2: you say that? Immense pressure, especially on Billy, because he's
[16:32] Speaker 2: the songwriter in the band. But he, riding around with me,
[16:35] Speaker 2: realized it on his own that he needed to pause,
[16:39] Speaker 2: go back in and work on the songs he played me,
[16:41] Speaker 2: and also write more songs. There was a six-month break,
[16:44] Speaker 2: and when we came back, he wrote Today, one of
[16:47] Speaker 2: the singles. He wrote Disarm. There were a bunch of
[16:49] Speaker 2: songs that came in after that ride through Chicago that
[16:52] Speaker 2: are key tracks on the album.
[16:54] Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a great story. A story that most people
[16:57] Speaker 1: that are songwriters absolutely need to hear. With everything that
[17:02] Speaker 1: you've done, all the challenges you've been through, etc. If
[17:05] Speaker 1: you could tell your younger self, hey, this is going
[17:09] Speaker 1: to happen, so make sure you do this right. What
[17:11] Speaker 1: would you tell yourself?
[17:13] Speaker 2: Oh man, I don't know. That's also a great question.
[17:16] Speaker 2: I think when you're in the thick of it, of
[17:18] Speaker 2: making a record, whether it's when you're starting out as
[17:21] Speaker 2: a band or when you get to a level where
[17:23] Speaker 2: I was making these big major label records, it's hard
[17:26] Speaker 2: to know how things are going to turn out. And
[17:29] Speaker 2: I always wanted to have some success. And yet when
[17:33] Speaker 2: you're in the process of recording, no one thinks they're
[17:36] Speaker 2: making a record that's going to sell millions of copies.
[17:39] Speaker 2: At least I don't think that. I'm just trying to
[17:40] Speaker 2: make the songs as good as they can be. There's
[17:43] Speaker 2: no way to know what's going to happen. That's up
[17:45] Speaker 2: for really the public to determine or the marketing of
[17:49] Speaker 2: a label. Are they going to push the record? In
[17:51] Speaker 2: some ways, I wish I had been a little more
[17:54] Speaker 2: cognizant of the fact that there's a lot going on
[17:58] Speaker 2: in the long term. For one thing, I wish now, Tony,
[18:01] Speaker 2: that I had had a camera in the studio for
[18:05] Speaker 2: GISH and for Siamese Dream and for Nevermind and Sonic
[18:08] Speaker 2: Youth Dirty. Everywhere we go now, I'm holding up my iPhone.
[18:11] Speaker 2: Everybody films and clips everything. There's so much content. And
[18:15] Speaker 2: I always felt like the studio was a hallow ground,
[18:19] Speaker 2: a sacred space where artists could come and there's no intrusion,
[18:23] Speaker 2: no one... looking over the shoulders, no peering eyes. So
[18:27] Speaker 2: I kind of banned cameras from the studio. I also
[18:30] Speaker 2: felt like producing with an artist, I felt like if
[18:32] Speaker 2: I'm producing an artist, it's almost like a doctor-patient confidentiality.
[18:37] Speaker 2: But now I wish, going back, that I just had
[18:39] Speaker 2: a camera, even a couple of Instamatic Kodaks, and told people,
[18:42] Speaker 2: I'm going to leave these around the studio, shoot some photos.
[18:45] Speaker 2: I really have no documentation of all those sessions I
[18:49] Speaker 2: did in the 90s.
[18:50] Speaker 1: Yeah, I get that completely. Now, tell us a little
[18:53] Speaker 1: bit about Joey's song, you're working with them. How did
[18:57] Speaker 1: you get involved and how did that all come together
[19:00] Speaker 1: for you?
[19:01] Speaker 2: Well, Joey's song is an amazing, I can't even describe
[19:07] Speaker 2: what it is. It's a multi-day event called Freezing Man
[19:10] Speaker 2: in Madison, Wisconsin, where a lot of musicians come and
[19:13] Speaker 2: we collaborate, jam together. We put on these really crazy, cool,
[19:17] Speaker 2: collaborative shows and all the money goes to epilepsy, to
[19:20] Speaker 2: battle epilepsy. Mike O'Mall, who runs Joey's Song, his son
[19:25] Speaker 2: died about 15 years ago at five years old from
[19:28] Speaker 2: a severe version of epilepsy. And Mike wanted to do
[19:31] Speaker 2: something and contacted Freedy Johnston. So in year one, it
[19:34] Speaker 2: was just Mike O'Mall and Freedy Johnston. Freedy played at
[19:37] Speaker 2: a cafe, I think, in Chicago somewhere. The next year,
[19:41] Speaker 2: I was on tour with Garbage and Flaming Lips and Madison,
[19:44] Speaker 2: and Freedy and Mike were at the show. And Freedy said, oh,
[19:46] Speaker 2: you should meet Mike. He's got this amazing benefit. charity
[19:50] Speaker 2: he works with called Joey Song. It turns out I
[19:53] Speaker 2: knew Mike from the 80s. He'd been a stage manager
[19:56] Speaker 2: at a club called Headliners in Madison that Spooner played
[19:59] Speaker 2: many times. But we hadn't crossed paths for a while.
[20:02] Speaker 2: When I heard about Joey's song, it struck me because
[20:05] Speaker 2: I have several friends who battle with epilepsy. My best friend,
[20:10] Speaker 2: Bill Boyd, I've been with him when he has seizures.
[20:13] Speaker 2: My sister-in-law has epilepsy, and I just decided I'm going
[20:17] Speaker 2: to jump in full force. And so a couple years
[20:20] Speaker 2: after that, we did the Joey Song Benefits with Freedy
[20:23] Speaker 2: and me and Duke from Garbage and a handful of
[20:26] Speaker 2: Madison musicians. We have a cover band called the Know
[20:29] Speaker 2: It All Boyfriends. And so we started playing bigger cafes,
[20:32] Speaker 2: and we moved into a small club, a bigger club,
[20:34] Speaker 2: and then we went into a small theater, then a
[20:36] Speaker 2: bigger theater. Each year, we keep asking... to join us,
[20:40] Speaker 2: and every year we keep getting more people, and when
[20:43] Speaker 2: they come to play with us, they come back every year.
[20:46] Speaker 2: So this is the third year we're performing at the Sylvie,
[20:50] Speaker 2: and it's a multi-night event in Madison. The Sylvie holds
[20:53] Speaker 2: 2,500 people. It's a rock and roll camp. It's like
[20:57] Speaker 2: a rock and roll holiday camp. It is so fun.
[21:00] Speaker 2: Everybody who comes there leaves their ego at the door.
[21:03] Speaker 2: It's very collaborative. There's 70 musicians this year. I'm one
[21:06] Speaker 2: of the musical directors. And so it's up to me
[21:08] Speaker 2: to sort of figure out what the singers want to sing,
[21:10] Speaker 2: whether it's original music or covers. And then I've got
[21:12] Speaker 2: 10 drummers and 18 guitar players and five keyboard players
[21:16] Speaker 2: and string people and horns and so i have to
[21:20] Speaker 2: plug in all these people in these two nights where
[21:22] Speaker 2: they play and they collaborate with each other and it's
[21:24] Speaker 2: kind of crazy and um it is so effing fun
[21:28] Speaker 2: i'm telling you.
[21:29] Speaker 1: That's just great and the beauty of it is just
[21:32] Speaker 1: for charity and helping people and that's what it's all
[21:36] Speaker 1: about now you've done all these things what's on your
[21:40] Speaker 1: bucket list what is there still that you want to do?
[21:45] Speaker 2: Well, I still love producing. I just finished Silver Sump
[21:48] Speaker 2: Pickup's newest album, which comes out in January or February,
[21:51] Speaker 2: called Tentor Hooks. And I love the band. They're also
[21:54] Speaker 2: part of Joey's song. I love working with them because
[21:57] Speaker 2: we don't know exactly where a record's going to go
[22:01] Speaker 2: when we start it. We did most of it. You
[22:03] Speaker 2: can see me in my studio here. We did almost
[22:05] Speaker 2: all of it in this room here. I'm also been
[22:08] Speaker 2: starting to work on some scoring for films and just
[22:11] Speaker 2: finishing up a horror film called The Third Parent. And
[22:14] Speaker 2: it's really interesting. It's a nasty film. It's about a
[22:18] Speaker 2: home invasion of the suburban family. The premise was interesting
[22:24] Speaker 2: because there's some political overtones a little bit in it,
[22:28] Speaker 2: sort of. reflecting what's going on in the world around
[22:31] Speaker 2: us but the producer and the director kept saying we
[22:33] Speaker 2: don't want music we just want noise we want sound
[22:36] Speaker 2: design so it's been really interesting rather than write strings
[22:39] Speaker 2: and piano or traditional sort of old school music composition
[22:42] Speaker 2: i have a whole bank of modular synths in my
[22:45] Speaker 2: studio here and i'm just making sounds like and uh
[22:50] Speaker 2: it's really it's fun and every time we make something
[22:53] Speaker 2: weird or I come up with a strange sounding cure.
[22:55] Speaker 2: They're like, more. We want more of that. We want
[22:57] Speaker 2: more of that. So that's been interesting. I'm getting ready
[23:00] Speaker 2: to go in the studio with Garbage in September of 2026.
[23:03] Speaker 2: We're going to Europe. the spring and summer but we're
[23:07] Speaker 2: going to start a ninth album and i'm very excited
[23:09] Speaker 2: about that we're trying to do something sonically different from
[23:13] Speaker 2: the last record not quite sure what that means yet
[23:15] Speaker 2: but it's going to be fun we're i think we're
[23:17] Speaker 2: going to possibly record the album in europe and france
[23:20] Speaker 2: and germany that's sort of what we're thinking so be
[23:22] Speaker 2: cool because the last couple records we've done here in
[23:24] Speaker 2: la yeah.
[23:25] Speaker 1: That's great so 2026 looks like it's going to be
[23:28] Speaker 1: a great year for.
[23:29] Speaker 2: You Yeah, 2026 is already busy. We're doing a bunch
[23:33] Speaker 2: of festivals in February and March. Robert Smith is curating
[23:37] Speaker 2: a cancer benefit series at the Royal Albert Hall in London,
[23:41] Speaker 2: and he asked us to play on one of the nights.
[23:44] Speaker 2: So we're going to be over there playing with Robert Smith,
[23:47] Speaker 2: which is incredible because we're all massive Cure fans. And
[23:50] Speaker 2: then we're going to Europe and the UK from the
[23:52] Speaker 2: end of May through July. And as I said, we're
[23:55] Speaker 2: hoping to go to Europe and start recording our ninth
[23:57] Speaker 2: album in September.
[23:58] Speaker 1: Yeah, that sounds great. We'll have to get you back
[24:01] Speaker 1: on the podcast because this does well over in Europe
[24:04] Speaker 1: and the UK.
[24:05] Speaker 2: Great.
[24:06] Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's just great that you're playing and still performing. Yeah, man.
[24:10] Speaker 2: I mean, we're excited to keep making music. If you've
[24:13] Speaker 2: seen any of the clips of Garbage, Shirley's been talking
[24:16] Speaker 2: every night how we're winding down our touring. But we're
[24:19] Speaker 2: not stopping touring. We just did 60 shows this year,
[24:22] Speaker 2: and we did a big North American headline tour. And
[24:25] Speaker 2: it was grueling, just the physical travel. The shows were incredible.
[24:29] Speaker 2: Our fans were incredible. And also, it's gotten very expensive
[24:32] Speaker 2: to do a headline tour since COVID. The costs and
[24:35] Speaker 2: everything are up like 30% or 35%. We're not going
[24:37] Speaker 2: to stop playing, but I don't know if we're going
[24:39] Speaker 2: to be doing headline tours like we did this last
[24:42] Speaker 2: summer and fall. But I'm excited to make a new
[24:44] Speaker 2: Garbage album.
[24:45] Speaker 1: Yeah, that's great. I can't wait to hear it. We've
[24:47] Speaker 1: covered a lot. Is there anything else that you'd like
[24:50] Speaker 1: to put out there for everybody to hear?
[24:53] Speaker 2: No, I mean, Joey's song is so incredible. If you're
[24:57] Speaker 2: lucky enough or inclined, you can hop on a plane
[25:00] Speaker 2: and come up to Freezing Man for the second weekend
[25:03] Speaker 2: of January in Madison, Wisconsin. Anybody who's been there knows
[25:07] Speaker 2: it's the frozen tundra, man, but it's really fun. Like
[25:09] Speaker 2: I said earlier, all the musicians come every year because
[25:12] Speaker 2: they have so much fun doing it. And we have
[25:14] Speaker 2: a lot of new artists this year. Kurt Smith from
[25:17] Speaker 2: Tears for Fears is with us. Matt Sorum from Guns N' Roses.
[25:20] Speaker 2: Miguel Cervantes, the star from Hamilton in Chicago, is with
[25:24] Speaker 2: us this year. He's going to be doing a Hamilton
[25:27] Speaker 2: set on the Friday Unplugged show and with us on
[25:30] Speaker 2: the Saturday full-on rock jam. So many great people. Silver
[25:33] Speaker 2: Sun Pickups, Chris Collingwood from Fountains and Wham, Letters to Cleo,
[25:39] Speaker 2: the Go-Go's, members of the Go-Go's, Vicky from the Bangles.
[25:44] Speaker 2: There's so many people. I have a list of like
[25:46] Speaker 2: 70 musicians here. I can't remember who they all are,
[25:48] Speaker 2: but they're all incredible.
[25:49] Speaker 1: Yeah, it sounds like it's going to be a great
[25:51] Speaker 1: couple of nights with just great talent. Well, this has
[25:54] Speaker 1: been great. Great information, great conversation. I really appreciate you
[25:59] Speaker 1: taking the time to join us today.
[26:01] Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Tony. I appreciate it.
[26:02] Speaker 1: It's been my pleasure. Thanks again. Thanks for joining us today.
[26:16] Speaker 1: We hope you enjoyed the show. This has been a
[26:21] Speaker 1: Tony Mantour production. For more information, contact media at plateau
[26:26] Speaker 1: music dot com.

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