# Walter Egan: The Untold Stories Behind "Magnet and Steel," Stevie Nicks, Gram Parsons & a Lifetime in Music

An episode of [Tony Mantor's : Almost Live..... Nashville](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1751194045), 22 Sep 2026, 30 min.

Audio: https://podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/c41d385f-64b2-4514-9415-b4d50130ce01/4e1db31c-c629-4fa7-95d8-b4d50167bd13/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=d1742151-672b-4e4d-997b-b4d50130ce0c

Most people know Walter Egan for his timeless hit "Magnet and Steel," but that iconic song is only one chapter in an extraordinary career spanning more than five decades. In this episode of Almost Live Nashville, Walter joins host Tony Mantor to share the incredible stories behind his journey—from writing with Gram Parsons, recording alongside Stevie Nicks and Lindsey Buckingham, and working at the legendary Sound City Studios, to navigating the highs and lows of the music industry. Walter reflects on the friendships that shaped his career, the songs that deserved more recognition, the politics of the record business, his move to Nashville, becoming a songwriter and educator, and why his passion for music remains stronger than ever. Whether you're a longtime fan of Magnet and Steel or discovering Walter Egan for the first time, this conversation is filled with unforgettable stories, music history, and inspiration. In This Episode • The real story behind "Magnet and Steel" • Working with Stevie Nicks & Lindsey Buckingham • Writing songs with Gram Parsons • Recording at the legendary Sound City Studios • The truth about record label politics • Why "Hot Summer Nights" deserved to be a bigger hit • Keith Urban's recording of "Magnet and Steel" • Walter's songwriting process • Life in Nashville • His autobiography and new music releases • Becoming a grandfather • His radio show, Walt's Record Vault • Lessons learned from over 50 years in music If you enjoy conversations with legendary artists and behind-the-scenes stories from the music industry, be sure to Follow Almost Live Nashville so you never miss an episode. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:00] Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Tony Mantour. Thanks for joining us today. Welcome
[0:03] Speaker 1: to Almost Live Nashville, where music, entertainment, and great conversations
[0:08] Speaker 1: come together. If you haven't already, tap follow. This way
[0:11] Speaker 1: you stay up to date, never missing the great conversation
[0:14] Speaker 1: and guests coming your way. Most people know Walter Egan
[0:19] Speaker 1: for his classic hit, Magnet and Steel. That chart-topping single
[0:24] Speaker 1: is only one chapter in an incredible journey spanning more
[0:27] Speaker 1: than five decades. From writing songs with Graham Parsons, working
[0:31] Speaker 1: along Stevie Nicks, Lindsey Buckingham, recording at the legendary Sound
[0:36] Speaker 1: City Studios, and sharing stages with some of the most
[0:39] Speaker 1: influential artists of his generation, Walter has experienced the music
[0:44] Speaker 1: business from the inside out. In this conversation... We'll hear
[0:48] Speaker 1: the stories behind the songs, the highs and the lows
[0:51] Speaker 1: from the recording industry, the friendships that shaped his career,
[0:56] Speaker 1: and why his passion for the music continues today through
[0:59] Speaker 1: new releases, live performances, radio, teaching, and even becoming a grandfather.
[1:06] Speaker 1: It's an honest, fascinating look at perseverance, creativity, and what
[1:11] Speaker 1: it really takes to build a lasting career in music.
[1:14] Speaker 1: So whether you remember singing along to Magnet and Steel,
[1:17] Speaker 1: or you're discovering Walter Egan for the very first time,
[1:20] Speaker 1: you're in for a memorable conversation. So now, singer, songwriter, guitarist,
[1:26] Speaker 1: and storyteller, Walter Egan, thanks for joining us today.
[1:29] Speaker 2: Yeah, well, appreciate you having me.
[1:31] Speaker 1: Oh, it's my pleasure. When you look back at your
[1:33] Speaker 1: musical journey, what moment was it that you realized, hey,
[1:38] Speaker 1: this is actually happening?
[1:40] Speaker 2: Now, there's a big question that could take an hour
[1:44] Speaker 2: to answer. Through the years, I've tried with Limited success
[1:48] Speaker 2: to write my story. I did it once in the
[1:51] Speaker 2: third person in the 80s as kind of a happy
[1:54] Speaker 2: ending story of, you know, you dream a dream and
[1:57] Speaker 2: I wind up in the top 10. Sure. In the
[1:59] Speaker 2: last 15 years or so, I've been working with a
[2:03] Speaker 2: label in England called Red Steel Music. They put out
[2:07] Speaker 2: what was my alternative album, which was 26 years ago.
[2:12] Speaker 2: then one called The Lost Album, which came out in
[2:16] Speaker 2: England as The Mad Dog Album. Anyway, his label is
[2:20] Speaker 2: basically one guy who seems to appreciate my latter-day aesthetic,
[2:24] Speaker 2: let's put it that way, and his recordings that I've
[2:27] Speaker 2: been making through the years. So he wanted to put
[2:29] Speaker 2: some of them out. With limited success here and there,
[2:32] Speaker 2: he would turn his attention to me and we would
[2:35] Speaker 2: do a project or something. And he put out some
[2:37] Speaker 2: singles through the years and found recordings that he liked.
[2:41] Speaker 1: Nice.
[2:41] Speaker 2: In the year 2020, when COVID hit, I had seen
[2:45] Speaker 2: him the year before, did a gig at the Cavern
[2:48] Speaker 2: in Liverpool, legendary as it was. He came up from
[2:52] Speaker 2: London and I gave him a stack of CDs of
[2:54] Speaker 2: these recordings I had made. So one of them happened
[2:57] Speaker 2: to be a song cycle about the woman Pamela DeBarra,
[3:02] Speaker 2: You familiar with Pamela?
[3:04] Speaker 1: Oh, yeah.
[3:04] Speaker 2: She's quite a well-known persona. My daughter was about to
[3:09] Speaker 2: move to California for a little while, for a year,
[3:12] Speaker 2: which turned into about six years. She said to me, well,
[3:15] Speaker 2: before we go, don't get this wrong, but I really
[3:17] Speaker 2: like this book. The book was I'm with the band,
[3:20] Speaker 2: you know, and, you know, she was 18 or whatever.
[3:23] Speaker 2: I said, well, you know, I think I've met her
[3:25] Speaker 2: somewhere along the line, maybe on Facebook. And we were.
[3:28] Speaker 2: I got in touch with her and told her my
[3:30] Speaker 2: daughter wanted to meet her or whatever. She has these
[3:33] Speaker 2: yard sales of groupie coutures. So we went and visited her.
[3:37] Speaker 2: At this point, I was well into my divorce year,
[3:41] Speaker 2: second bachelorhood. We got divorced in 2004. And my wife,
[3:46] Speaker 2: as she then was, and she still is, 11 years
[3:49] Speaker 2: younger than I am. You know, I've always skewed a
[3:52] Speaker 2: little younger than women my own age. Anyway, I found
[3:56] Speaker 2: myself becoming attractive to Pamela or attracted to Pamela. There's
[4:02] Speaker 2: a Freudian slip. Every time I'd go to visit my
[4:04] Speaker 2: daughter or do a gig in California, I'd go out
[4:07] Speaker 2: with Pamela and I'd wind up writing another song about
[4:10] Speaker 2: that part of the relationship that I happened to be in,
[4:13] Speaker 2: if you want to even call it that. And so ultimately,
[4:16] Speaker 2: you know, crashed and burned, as it were, after about
[4:20] Speaker 2: 10 songs. So I had these songs on a CD
[4:24] Speaker 2: and the guy in England thought this was a great CD.
[4:28] Speaker 2: I can really relate to it. It's like, you know,
[4:31] Speaker 2: you fall in love, you think it's going to happen
[4:32] Speaker 2: and oh, well, maybe it won't.
[4:34] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[4:35] Speaker 2: So I had the time off because of the COVID
[4:38] Speaker 2: situation and I sat down for real, actually got through
[4:42] Speaker 2: writing my book.
[4:43] Speaker 1: Yeah, good.
[4:44] Speaker 2: Which came to about 550 pages about a year and
[4:47] Speaker 2: a half ago that I abandoned it. A friend of
[4:49] Speaker 2: mine said, you never finish writing an autobiography. You just,
[4:52] Speaker 2: you just abandon it. This guy in English, I gave
[4:55] Speaker 2: him that top 10 one that I told you about,
[4:58] Speaker 2: happy ending one. He said, well, what about the rest
[5:00] Speaker 2: of the story? Like, well, okay, yeah, I can do that.
[5:03] Speaker 2: So I did. I wrote, I wrote it all. I've
[5:06] Speaker 2: come to the title of Magnitude with a different spelling
[5:10] Speaker 2: of magnitude to allude to my record and my secrets
[5:14] Speaker 2: to reveal as the subtitle. During that time, that was
[5:18] Speaker 2: the prime question. It was like, how did all this
[5:20] Speaker 2: happen to me? Is it a butterfly effect? Was it
[5:23] Speaker 2: a decision I made years and years before that led
[5:26] Speaker 2: me to that? And I pretty much think it happened
[5:28] Speaker 2: in December of 1970 in Georgetown, D.C., where I still
[5:33] Speaker 2: was living, even though I was out of school. Linda
[5:36] Speaker 2: Ronstadt and her band came into the club where we
[5:39] Speaker 2: were playing and liked our music, which was a lot
[5:43] Speaker 2: of songs that I had written.
[5:44] Speaker 1: Nice.
[5:45] Speaker 2: We sat down with them and they liked us and
[5:48] Speaker 2: we got to be friends and hung out. In those days,
[5:50] Speaker 2: there was a club called The Cellar Door where Axe
[5:53] Speaker 2: would play for a week. And so we got to
[5:55] Speaker 2: hang with him all week. And her road manager was
[5:58] Speaker 2: a guy named Chris Darrow. Okay. Okay. Now, Chris happened
[6:01] Speaker 2: to have come from the original band, The Kaleidoscope, with
[6:05] Speaker 2: David Lindley in the late 60s. He was in Nitty
[6:08] Speaker 2: Gritty Dirt Band for a while. He was a great instrumentalist,
[6:12] Speaker 2: mandolin and fiddle and guitar. And he really took a
[6:15] Speaker 2: liking to the band. So I developed a relationship with
[6:18] Speaker 2: him long distance. He wanted to produce the band and
[6:22] Speaker 2: it was like, hey, great, great. And ultimately it came
[6:24] Speaker 2: down to, yeah, but we want your publishing. And so
[6:27] Speaker 2: it was like, thanks anyway. That was in the 72-ish era. Ultimately,
[6:32] Speaker 2: the band broke up. I got in touch with Chris
[6:36] Speaker 2: and I said, hey, my band broke up. He said, well,
[6:38] Speaker 2: come to California and you can play with me, which
[6:41] Speaker 2: I took as a great invitation. So that was it.
[6:43] Speaker 2: In 74, that contact with Chris Darrow from that night
[6:47] Speaker 2: in December led me to the gateway. He was my
[6:51] Speaker 2: gateway to the rest of my life.
[6:53] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[6:53] Speaker 2: Ultimately, his manager became my manager. And the tour that
[6:57] Speaker 2: I did with him in May of 74 of the
[6:59] Speaker 2: British Isles was where I met this guy named Andrew Lauder,
[7:03] Speaker 2: who was the head. Well, at that point, he was
[7:05] Speaker 2: a United Artists England. He was like the A &
[7:09] Speaker 2: R guy. Two years later, he wound up offering me
[7:12] Speaker 2: a deal in LA after a night at the Troubadour.
[7:16] Speaker 2: So that connection came through. And then further connection to
[7:19] Speaker 2: the illustrious people who I worked with happened because Chris
[7:23] Speaker 2: and Greg, who was the manager, had been doing demos
[7:27] Speaker 2: at this studio, this funky studio in Van Nuys called
[7:30] Speaker 2: Sound City, which has become illustrious because of Dave Grohl. Right.
[7:36] Speaker 2: So yeah, and because of that, My engineer said, well,
[7:40] Speaker 2: if you need a producer, you should talk to Buckingham Knicks.
[7:43] Speaker 2: And I was like, who is that? Is that a guy?
[7:45] Speaker 2: I don't know. Who's Buckingham? He said, no, no. Here,
[7:50] Speaker 2: listen to this record. So I listened to the Buckingham
[7:53] Speaker 2: Knicks and the White Fleetwood Mac album.
[7:56] Speaker 1: You recorded Magnet and Steel. When you recorded that song,
[7:59] Speaker 1: lots of times you'll have that feeling that, wow, this
[8:02] Speaker 1: is a great song. Did you have any type of
[8:04] Speaker 1: feeling that this song could become the giant that it became?
[8:08] Speaker 2: Well, if I did, I would have had a few
[8:10] Speaker 2: more after that, I guess. Even though I had tried that,
[8:13] Speaker 2: I've stuck magnet-type songs on the subsequent albums that I did.
[8:18] Speaker 2: But no, of course not. But it reflected my love
[8:22] Speaker 2: of 50s music, the duo kind of stuff that I
[8:25] Speaker 2: grew up listening to as a kid.
[8:27] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[8:29] Speaker 2: The kind of background... harmony thing that came from Loving
[8:34] Speaker 2: the Beach Boys, I think. And that was another thing
[8:37] Speaker 2: I shared with Lindsay. Lindsay was a big Beach Boys fan. So,
[8:41] Speaker 2: you know, it was, as he used to call the
[8:45] Speaker 2: difference between a demo and a recorded piece for an album,
[8:48] Speaker 2: a piece. It was a piece after we got through
[8:51] Speaker 2: with the toy piano and that background harmony thing. I
[8:55] Speaker 2: liked it. It was certainly the sore thumb on that album,
[8:58] Speaker 2: I guess, because, you know, as I like to say
[9:01] Speaker 2: now in this era of yacht rock, as they call it,
[9:05] Speaker 2: I'm the barnacle on the yacht of rock, you know,
[9:07] Speaker 2: because I'm along for the ride, but I'm more rock
[9:10] Speaker 2: than yacht, I think.
[9:11] Speaker 1: Yeah. Do you feel there's a song you wrote that
[9:14] Speaker 1: did not get the recognition that you thought that it
[9:16] Speaker 1: should have?
[9:17] Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. I've got a list of those. But yeah,
[9:20] Speaker 2: I'm starting with the follow-up to Magnet and Steel, which
[9:24] Speaker 2: was a song called Hot Summer Nights. Okay. That record
[9:27] Speaker 2: came out in March, 78. And so the smaller stations
[9:31] Speaker 2: that went on Magnet and Steel right away and built
[9:35] Speaker 2: it into what it became. By summertime, they were on
[9:39] Speaker 2: what they considered to be the next song off that album.
[9:42] Speaker 2: And everybody knew it was going to be Hot Summer Nights.
[9:46] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[9:46] Speaker 2: Played it a lot during the summer as a deep cut.
[9:49] Speaker 2: But yeah, no, it was that was the song that
[9:52] Speaker 2: should have been. But Columbia held the single until it was,
[9:57] Speaker 2: you know, almost Thanksgiving, I think, certainly Halloween. They just
[10:00] Speaker 2: milked Magnet for what it was worth, I guess. I
[10:03] Speaker 2: had a famous meeting with Walter Yetnikoff, who was the
[10:07] Speaker 2: big head honcho of Columbia CBS Records Group. Oh, yeah.
[10:11] Speaker 2: It is sweet at the Century Plaza Hotel when my
[10:14] Speaker 2: song was the highest song of any Columbia act on
[10:18] Speaker 2: the charts. And he was like, don't worry, Walter. At Columbia,
[10:22] Speaker 2: we break artists. Took us three albums for Billy Joel.
[10:25] Speaker 2: It took us three albums for Buzz Skaggs. He went
[10:29] Speaker 2: through this litany. But to me, break had a different feeling,
[10:33] Speaker 2: had a different meaning than we broke you out. Anyway,
[10:36] Speaker 2: and ultimately, I think that's what happened. The record stalled mid-chart.
[10:41] Speaker 2: The following year, it was covered by a group called Night, N-I-G-H-T.
[10:45] Speaker 2: That was Richard Perry's pet project for his independent label.
[10:50] Speaker 2: Their version of Hot Summer Nights got into the top
[10:53] Speaker 2: 20s and top 10 around the world. Not only that,
[10:56] Speaker 2: for a song that started out as an homage to
[10:59] Speaker 2: my bandmates. It's about the family that a band makes,
[11:04] Speaker 2: you know? Right. I thought it was a very personal song,
[11:06] Speaker 2: but I guess the ooh part of it or the
[11:09] Speaker 2: riff or whatever made it universal because then there was
[11:12] Speaker 2: a French version, Swedish version, Japanese, German, you know?
[11:19] Speaker 1: Well, that's still good because when people are recording the
[11:22] Speaker 1: songs that you wrote, that's still a great feeling.
[11:25] Speaker 2: It sure is, you know? There's another song after that, so... Okay,
[11:30] Speaker 2: the record that came out after the Not Shy album,
[11:34] Speaker 2: which was the big album, was one called Hi-Fi. The
[11:38] Speaker 2: guy who was my A & R guy at Columbia
[11:40] Speaker 2: was a guy named Don Ellis. We checked with him.
[11:43] Speaker 2: We said, we want to do this. The band has
[11:45] Speaker 2: been on the road for eight months. We're really tight.
[11:47] Speaker 2: We know one another. We can play together. Stevie's moving
[11:51] Speaker 2: out of this nice house in the Hollywood Hills. it
[11:54] Speaker 2: would be great to record an album there. And so
[11:56] Speaker 2: we got a 16 track recorder and got to use
[12:00] Speaker 2: her house and record there for the next three months. Yeah.
[12:03] Speaker 2: It was wonderful. It was a great experience. It was
[12:05] Speaker 2: because there was nowhere to park. Nobody could really drop
[12:09] Speaker 2: in on us very much.
[12:10] Speaker 1: Right.
[12:11] Speaker 2: You know, we had pretty much autonomy with it. Yeah.
[12:14] Speaker 2: And then by the time that record was out at
[12:16] Speaker 2: Don Ellis approved, well, the guy who took his place
[12:19] Speaker 2: because Don went to RCA records. Right. It was a
[12:23] Speaker 2: guy named Jack Crago. And Jack heard the record and went,
[12:26] Speaker 2: I don't hear Stevie Nicks on here. What's going on? Well,
[12:29] Speaker 2: you know, this was the album where you signed me, remember?
[12:32] Speaker 2: And this is stepping away from the big shadow.
[12:35] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[12:35] Speaker 2: By that time, rumors had exploded. That was my first
[12:39] Speaker 2: taste of record politics.
[12:41] Speaker 1: Oh, yeah.
[12:42] Speaker 2: Columbia, as the huge machine that they are as a
[12:47] Speaker 2: record making company, when they're behind you, It's wonderful and great.
[12:51] Speaker 2: You lose a bullet and they keep pushing.
[12:54] Speaker 1: Right.
[12:55] Speaker 2: When they're not behind you, then you get lost in
[12:57] Speaker 2: the shuffle.
[12:58] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[12:58] Speaker 2: Put out, you know, 10 records every two weeks or
[13:01] Speaker 2: whatever it was. So, yeah, so that was a bitter taste.
[13:05] Speaker 2: And I had a six album deal with Columbia. Wow.
[13:08] Speaker 2: Which was pretty amazing in itself. Yeah. So this was
[13:11] Speaker 2: only the third album. And at this point, it was like, well,
[13:14] Speaker 2: if you're not going to support what we're doing, we
[13:17] Speaker 2: should get a different deal with somebody else. No, no,
[13:20] Speaker 2: we'll agree. We agreed on a producer named Earl Mankey,
[13:24] Speaker 2: who had produced 2020 and worked with the Beach Boys. Yeah.
[13:28] Speaker 2: Been in Sparks and Half Nelson, those bands. Right. Anyway,
[13:32] Speaker 2: so he was a little bit new wave and a
[13:34] Speaker 2: little bit old school.
[13:35] Speaker 1: Right.
[13:36] Speaker 2: Which was kind of what we were going for. And
[13:39] Speaker 2: that was an album called The Last Stroll. So even
[13:43] Speaker 2: just the title, even though it was about this woman
[13:46] Speaker 2: who I was saying goodbye to. I felt like it
[13:49] Speaker 2: had to do with my relationship with Columbia at the
[13:52] Speaker 2: same time.
[13:53] Speaker 1: Yeah, that makes sense.
[13:55] Speaker 2: Ironically, now that we're talking, there's another label in England
[13:59] Speaker 2: called Demon Records. Okay. Which is about to release the
[14:03] Speaker 2: complete albums with those four albums, basically, as a package.
[14:07] Speaker 1: Oh, nice.
[14:08] Speaker 2: As CDs, and they threatened to put it out on vinyl,
[14:11] Speaker 2: but we'll see about that.
[14:13] Speaker 1: With any artist, you have influences of people around you,
[14:17] Speaker 1: people you've listened to over the years. Who do you
[14:20] Speaker 1: feel really impressed you and influenced you in a way
[14:24] Speaker 1: that helped you become even a stronger singer and songwriter?
[14:29] Speaker 2: Well, it would be hard not to point to those
[14:31] Speaker 2: two guys that I worked with, because the way that
[14:34] Speaker 2: I came into that, I had always been in bands
[14:36] Speaker 2: where I was the songwriter and the lead guitarist and
[14:39] Speaker 2: kind of the leader of the band.
[14:40] Speaker 1: Sure.
[14:41] Speaker 2: But I had Singers in the band that I always
[14:43] Speaker 2: felt were better singers. Annie McClune was in my college band,
[14:48] Speaker 2: and she was a wonderful singer and knew a couple
[14:50] Speaker 2: of guys who were really good singers in that band.
[14:53] Speaker 2: So I never worried about singing. I'd sing in oldies
[14:56] Speaker 2: or something, singing Rave on. It was kind of the
[15:00] Speaker 2: same with the band in California that did the Hoot
[15:03] Speaker 2: Night at the Troubadour in February of 76. I had written,
[15:07] Speaker 2: I think, six out of the seven songs we got
[15:09] Speaker 2: to play that night. Uh-huh. I only sang one. And
[15:13] Speaker 2: so after we did that and that it came back
[15:16] Speaker 2: to me, they want to offer you a, well, it
[15:19] Speaker 2: was a three singles deal. So it was a deal
[15:21] Speaker 2: to make six tracks, six recordings, A and B size. Right.
[15:26] Speaker 2: And I said, well, okay, great. But wait, you mean
[15:28] Speaker 2: you want me to sing that? And they were, yeah,
[15:31] Speaker 2: we want you to sing it. So this was a
[15:33] Speaker 2: challenge to my insecurity, certainly. Right. And then having met
[15:39] Speaker 2: with and kind of gotten to know Stevie and Lindsay. Sure.
[15:43] Speaker 2: Listen to what they had done. I had great respect
[15:46] Speaker 2: for their talent and what they had accomplished. Okay. Stevie
[15:50] Speaker 2: and Annie were very parallel. Their birthdays were like a
[15:54] Speaker 2: week or so apart. Yeah. And, you know, and Lindsay's name,
[15:58] Speaker 2: my middle name is Lindsay and that kind of stuff.
[16:01] Speaker 2: It all felt like this is right. And because they,
[16:05] Speaker 2: I gave them my insecurity. I said, you know, I
[16:08] Speaker 2: have never really been an elite singer so much in
[16:10] Speaker 2: a band. So Stevie worked with me a little bit
[16:14] Speaker 2: and Lindsay showed me a way to be happy and
[16:19] Speaker 2: confident doing my music. At one point during the recording
[16:23] Speaker 2: of Fundamental Role, Stevie turned to me and said, you know,
[16:27] Speaker 2: you and Lindsay are so much alike. It's crazy. Yeah.
[16:30] Speaker 2: And it was like we were sharing memories of crazy
[16:33] Speaker 2: old TV shows and things like that. Right. But I
[16:35] Speaker 2: always took that as a compliment anyway. Sure. Yeah. I
[16:39] Speaker 2: think they gave me the confidence that I could do
[16:42] Speaker 2: this because, hey, you know, they're just like me and
[16:46] Speaker 2: we're all doing this and I can do this too. So, yeah,
[16:50] Speaker 2: that came. And then I think the next level of
[16:52] Speaker 2: that happened after I moved to Nashville and started doing
[16:57] Speaker 2: a lot of writers nights. Yeah. I didn't have a
[17:00] Speaker 2: band surrounding me for security. You know, because you have
[17:03] Speaker 2: a band, you can always kind of, you know, yell
[17:05] Speaker 2: at one another and know that you're in it together. Exactly.
[17:09] Speaker 2: So yeah, then to sit down and do it, because
[17:12] Speaker 2: I enjoy singing when I'm doing it. I just don't
[17:15] Speaker 2: enjoy going and listening to myself do it.
[17:19] Speaker 1: What was it like? You've written songs that have become
[17:22] Speaker 1: hit records. Then you come to Nashville, start doing songwriters nights. Meanwhile,
[17:27] Speaker 1: you have all these hit records out there. How did
[17:30] Speaker 1: that affect not only your psyche in the way that
[17:33] Speaker 1: you approached it? How did it affect the people that
[17:36] Speaker 1: would come up to you knowing what you have done?
[17:39] Speaker 1: How did that all come together?
[17:41] Speaker 2: Well, I'm glad you asked me that. I have a
[17:45] Speaker 2: memory of doing a gig at Douglas Corner. Well, actually Zaney's,
[17:50] Speaker 2: which was across the street from Douglas Corner.
[17:52] Speaker 1: Yeah, I remember Douglas Corner.
[17:54] Speaker 2: And I think it might have been a Billy Block show.
[17:57] Speaker 2: God bless him. Good old Billy.
[17:58] Speaker 1: Wow.
[17:59] Speaker 2: Billy Block.
[18:00] Speaker 1: That's a name I haven't heard in a long time.
[18:02] Speaker 2: I know. Billy was the king of Nashville when I
[18:05] Speaker 2: got here.
[18:06] Speaker 1: He was. He did well.
[18:07] Speaker 2: It might have even been one of the first ones
[18:09] Speaker 2: that I did. I mean, I appreciate that. that you
[18:12] Speaker 2: say I have all these hit records, but really I
[18:14] Speaker 2: only have the one that people really know about. But
[18:17] Speaker 2: I did play the song that actually gave me my
[18:19] Speaker 2: break into the music business, which was a song called
[18:22] Speaker 2: Hearts on Fire, recorded by Graham Parsons and Emmylou Harris. Right. So,
[18:27] Speaker 2: you know, they would appreciate that I do Magnet and Steel,
[18:29] Speaker 2: but then I would play Hearts on Fire and then,
[18:32] Speaker 2: holy cow, you know, you did that, you wrote that song. So, yeah,
[18:36] Speaker 2: I mean, Graham... It was a pretty amazing character to
[18:40] Speaker 2: have also been associated with in those years. And in fact,
[18:45] Speaker 2: when Emmylou, because Emmy was actually living with us as
[18:49] Speaker 2: a band up in the Boston area when all that
[18:52] Speaker 2: went down. So when she came back after recording Hearts
[18:56] Speaker 2: on Fire, she had a set of lyrics that Graham
[18:59] Speaker 2: had sent back with her to me to write the
[19:02] Speaker 2: music for, which was a song called Carolina Calypso. which
[19:06] Speaker 2: ultimately I did finish shortly, well, right around the time
[19:10] Speaker 2: that he died, which was very unfortunate. And I think
[19:15] Speaker 2: it would have been a great life to write songs
[19:18] Speaker 2: with Graham Parsons for a while. Yeah. And, you know,
[19:22] Speaker 2: I did look up to him for what he accomplished
[19:25] Speaker 2: and the music that he made and the way that
[19:27] Speaker 2: he made it. The times that I got to hang
[19:28] Speaker 2: with him were really only a couple of times. The
[19:31] Speaker 2: time that he came to sing with Emmylou for the
[19:33] Speaker 2: first time in our kitchen, and he was very positive
[19:36] Speaker 2: and very radiant and charismatic and all that. And then
[19:41] Speaker 2: when they were on tour for that Grievous Angel album
[19:44] Speaker 2: in 73, coming through Boston, I basically was Graham's chauffeur. Yeah.
[19:50] Speaker 2: I drove him around in our beat up old Econoline. And,
[19:53] Speaker 2: you know, he would be positive and happy before the gig.
[19:57] Speaker 2: And then after the gig, whatever happened during those gigs,
[20:00] Speaker 2: he was in some kind of vortex. And it was
[20:03] Speaker 2: sad to witness it. But it was also an eye
[20:06] Speaker 2: opener for me. He was a victim of whatever, whatever
[20:11] Speaker 2: demon it was that got him to take all that
[20:14] Speaker 2: stuff that he did take.
[20:15] Speaker 1: You recorded Magnet and Steel, and of course it did
[20:17] Speaker 1: so well for you. Plus, you've written all these other songs.
[20:21] Speaker 1: How's it feel now, because Keith Urban just recorded it
[20:25] Speaker 1: with Little Big Town, and I've heard it sounds pretty good.
[20:28] Speaker 2: Feels pretty good, I'd have to say. Yeah, he did
[20:31] Speaker 2: a very faithful version. He even did the solo note
[20:35] Speaker 2: for note that I played, so I was happy to
[20:37] Speaker 2: have that. Yeah, I noticed that, yeah. The way they
[20:39] Speaker 2: extended the tag is a way that I used to
[20:42] Speaker 2: do with my band that way as well. So I felt, yeah,
[20:46] Speaker 2: I thought it was really cool. Well, that was a
[20:49] Speaker 2: funny thing. When I moved to Nashville, I went to,
[20:52] Speaker 2: at that point, April Blackwood held the publishing for Magnet.
[20:56] Speaker 2: So I went in and met with a guy there
[20:58] Speaker 2: and tried to sell them on, you know, slap a
[21:01] Speaker 2: pedal steel on these songs of mine. It could be
[21:03] Speaker 2: a real country song, you know. Absolutely. And this was,
[21:07] Speaker 2: This was the era of Shania and Garth. Okay. 97,
[21:12] Speaker 2: 98 in there. Ultimately, though, he would go, yeah, but
[21:17] Speaker 2: let's get, we'll get Tim McGraw and Faith Hill to
[21:19] Speaker 2: cut Magnet and Steel. Oh, that sounds good. Let's do that. Yeah.
[21:24] Speaker 2: It never happened, of course.
[21:26] Speaker 1: I don't hear that.
[21:27] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[21:28] Speaker 1: Of course, that's just my opinion.
[21:30] Speaker 2: Who knew? I mean, I never saw Eminem coming in.
[21:33] Speaker 2: That was the other end of the story about Hot
[21:35] Speaker 2: Summer Night. Yeah. M & M used it Yeah To
[21:40] Speaker 2: For his song We Made You Right It's called An
[21:43] Speaker 2: Interpolation Did it basically Using the chords And the feel
[21:48] Speaker 2: He used the night version Because it's in G minor
[21:50] Speaker 2: Not in D minor Like mine is Right But yeah
[21:53] Speaker 2: You know It feels great And it feels You know,
[21:57] Speaker 2: we'll see. I've learned enough in this business to where
[22:00] Speaker 2: it's going, oh, you're going to buy a house. It's like, yeah,
[22:03] Speaker 2: let's just see, you know, because it takes a few
[22:05] Speaker 2: months to see really where it lands. Yeah, it really does.
[22:09] Speaker 2: But what I'm hoping it'll do is that it'll open
[22:12] Speaker 2: people to the rest of my catalog. Absolutely. Which is
[22:16] Speaker 2: what I've been going for anyway. Yeah, yeah. So we'll
[22:19] Speaker 2: see how that winds up.
[22:21] Speaker 1: So what's coming up? What's on the horizon?
[22:24] Speaker 2: Okay. Well, the release date of the four-album release from
[22:29] Speaker 2: Demon Records is happening in August now. It's called The
[22:33] Speaker 2: Complete Albums 1977 to 1980. And they've done a nice repackaging.
[22:39] Speaker 2: I've signed 600 inserts for their package. And so I'm
[22:44] Speaker 2: happy that they're at least looking like they're interested in
[22:47] Speaker 2: promoting it. Hopefully, they will promote that. Mm-hmm. Meanwhile, I've been,
[22:53] Speaker 2: as I say, the barnacle on the yacht of rock. Yeah.
[22:55] Speaker 2: The band Ambrosia has adopted me as one of their satellites,
[23:00] Speaker 2: if you want to call it that. Yeah. Their lifeboats, maybe.
[23:04] Speaker 2: And I've been doing these shows with them over the last,
[23:07] Speaker 2: it started in 2019. After COVID, it resumed. Yeah, me
[23:12] Speaker 2: and Peter Beckett, known as the voice of player, and
[23:16] Speaker 2: John Ford Coley. One of my Franklin neighbors. Right. He's
[23:20] Speaker 2: on most of these shows that I do. Elliot Lurie. Yeah.
[23:23] Speaker 2: Brandy or Fine Girl from Looking Glass. That was him.
[23:26] Speaker 2: And we just did the Rockin' Romance Cruise. I was
[23:30] Speaker 2: one of the additional acts for them. And then Nick
[23:34] Speaker 2: Gilder was one of them, which was kind of cool.
[23:37] Speaker 2: I got to meet him. He and I were on
[23:39] Speaker 2: the charts together in 78. Wow. Henry Gross, who was
[23:43] Speaker 2: one of my first friends here in Nashville. So it
[23:46] Speaker 2: was a fun, you know, that was fun. But yeah,
[23:49] Speaker 2: I mean, I have come to appreciate this music, which
[23:53] Speaker 2: I think is maybe a little more Baroque than my
[23:56] Speaker 2: approach to rock and roll. You know, my songs have
[23:58] Speaker 2: three chords, mostly, and theirs has like seven or eight. So,
[24:02] Speaker 2: you know.
[24:03] Speaker 1: Yeah, nothing wrong with that.
[24:05] Speaker 2: But, you know, having Ambrosia as your backup band is
[24:09] Speaker 2: so cool because they are such excellent musicians and singers
[24:13] Speaker 2: and great people as well. So this has been really
[24:17] Speaker 2: nice to be adopted by them. That other label that
[24:20] Speaker 2: I was talking about in England, Red Steel, as I say,
[24:25] Speaker 2: that comes and goes. But he says that he's doing
[24:30] Speaker 2: a vinyl version of the Lost album, which would have
[24:33] Speaker 2: been my sixth album had it ever really come out
[24:38] Speaker 2: other than later on as the Lost album. So that's
[24:42] Speaker 2: in the works. If you have an iPhone, there's a
[24:45] Speaker 2: ringtone called Classic Strum. Okay. I swear is my first single,
[24:51] Speaker 2: Only the Lucky. I've got some lawyers who think that's
[24:55] Speaker 2: a good idea to go after Apple to see if
[24:58] Speaker 2: we can get something for that. Sure. I've been doing
[25:01] Speaker 2: a radio show here in Nashville every Sunday night called
[25:04] Speaker 2: Walt's Record Vault, which is on a station called Hippie
[25:07] Speaker 2: Radio 94.5. Yeah, I've heard them. They play Magnet and Steel.
[25:13] Speaker 2: And when they played it, I sent him a message saying,
[25:17] Speaker 2: thanks for the spins. And he said, come in and
[25:19] Speaker 2: do an interview. And I did that. But I said,
[25:22] Speaker 2: why are you calling it hippie radio? You don't play
[25:24] Speaker 2: very much hippie music. Well, it's just a new way
[25:28] Speaker 2: of saying an oldie station. You know, I said, oh,
[25:31] Speaker 2: I see. Well, you know, I was on college radio
[25:34] Speaker 2: the last four years of the 60s, and I would
[25:37] Speaker 2: be perfect to do your hippie show. He said, OK, well,
[25:40] Speaker 2: if you're going to do it, you got to do
[25:41] Speaker 2: it for a year. I was like, oh, okay. Now
[25:45] Speaker 2: it's this weekend. It's show number 110. So I've been
[25:49] Speaker 2: at it for a couple of years now. There's an
[25:51] Speaker 2: archive of podcasts. If you go to hippieradio945. com, there's a
[25:57] Speaker 2: picture of me. If you click on it, then there's
[25:59] Speaker 2: a button that says podcasts. And all of my previous
[26:03] Speaker 2: shows are in there. And yeah, it's mostly 66 to 70, 72. Nice.
[26:09] Speaker 2: Every now and then I'll slip my stuff in there.
[26:11] Speaker 2: Or slip and do up. I do a do up
[26:13] Speaker 2: show every now and then. A surf instrumental show because
[26:16] Speaker 2: my first high school band was surf instrumental band. You know,
[26:20] Speaker 2: basically he said he wanted it to be like personality
[26:23] Speaker 2: radio where I just basically tell my stories. So I've
[26:27] Speaker 2: been able to do that and that's been kind of fun.
[26:29] Speaker 2: Other than that, I've become a grandfather. Oh, that's great.
[26:32] Speaker 2: The last few years, my first grandchild, she is now
[26:36] Speaker 2: four years old. Oh, wow. That's great. Next is one
[26:40] Speaker 2: year old. Yeah. So that's been a joy that I
[26:42] Speaker 2: never quite expected to have.
[26:44] Speaker 1: That's a great joy. And it's also a great getaway
[26:47] Speaker 1: from the music business.
[26:49] Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, it is.
[26:50] Speaker 1: Yeah. I've got grandkids. Wouldn't change anything for anything.
[26:54] Speaker 2: Completely apart from music. Yeah. Although little Edie, one year
[27:00] Speaker 2: old Edie. she hears music and she starts rocking. So
[27:03] Speaker 2: I think she's going to be good in the music world.
[27:05] Speaker 2: And even that Iris, my older one, she had a
[27:09] Speaker 2: guitar and she was making up a song one afternoon.
[27:12] Speaker 2: So yeah, you never know. Cause you know, I tried
[27:15] Speaker 2: to pass it on to my son and he was
[27:17] Speaker 2: into rap, that kind of stuff. And he didn't want
[27:20] Speaker 2: to know about it. Although we did have a few
[27:22] Speaker 2: moments when he asked me how to play Memphis. Oh, okay.
[27:26] Speaker 2: Let's go. And it's better than a camping trip together, but.
[27:29] Speaker 1: Well, it's just so good that music has done well
[27:32] Speaker 1: for you. It's not everyone that gets the opportunity to
[27:35] Speaker 1: do what they love to do.
[27:36] Speaker 2: Exactly. And I appreciate that every day. And the other
[27:39] Speaker 2: part of the story is 2017, my ex-wife and I
[27:44] Speaker 2: moved back in together. We were being grandparents together.
[27:47] Speaker 1: Nice.
[27:48] Speaker 2: Even though we aren't remarried, I think it's almost better
[27:52] Speaker 2: if we're just doing it on the basis of voluntarily
[27:55] Speaker 2: being good to one another.
[27:56] Speaker 1: There is nothing wrong with that at all. Life comes
[27:59] Speaker 1: down to, many times, just treat people the way that
[28:02] Speaker 1: you want to be treated. Be nice, be kind, and
[28:05] Speaker 1: just live your life that way.
[28:07] Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm trying to. And, you know, I've still been
[28:10] Speaker 2: doing what I've been doing for 30 years outside of music,
[28:14] Speaker 2: which is being a substitute teacher. Oh, really? Yeah. Mostly
[28:18] Speaker 2: at a high school here in Franklin called Centennial. Yeah.
[28:21] Speaker 2: Which has been kind of fun, kind of annoying. But
[28:26] Speaker 2: in the small town that Franklin is, former students, I
[28:30] Speaker 2: get nice feedback from them, you know, which is cool. Yeah.
[28:33] Speaker 2: And only that I played, I don't know how much
[28:35] Speaker 2: you're familiar with Modern Country, which I don't listen to
[28:39] Speaker 2: that much. But there's a woman named Kelsey Ballerini doing
[28:43] Speaker 2: very well. Yeah. She went to Centennial.
[28:45] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[28:46] Speaker 2: I played bass on her demos.
[28:48] Speaker 1: Nice.
[28:48] Speaker 2: And of course, jokingly after the session, I said, well,
[28:51] Speaker 2: when you're playing the rhyme and, you know, don't forget
[28:53] Speaker 2: me when I knock at your stage door. Now she's
[28:56] Speaker 2: selling me toothpaste on TV. So it's crazy.
[29:00] Speaker 1: Well, this has been great. I really appreciate you taking
[29:03] Speaker 1: the time to give us an insight on what you're doing.
[29:05] Speaker 2: But yeah, I'll talk to you anytime, Tony. Great to
[29:07] Speaker 2: see you. And I'm glad you're still at it.
[29:09] Speaker 1: Oh, it's been my pleasure. Thanks again. A sincere thank
[29:13] Speaker 1: you to our guests for sharing their journey with us today.
[29:16] Speaker 1: And thanks for spending part of your day with us.
[29:19] Speaker 1: We hope today's conversation gave you something to take with you.
[29:23] Speaker 1: If you haven't already, remember, tap follow so you never
[29:26] Speaker 1: miss the great conversations and guests still ahead. You can
[29:31] Speaker 1: always reach us at media at plateau music dot com.
[29:34] Speaker 1: Thanks for being part of what we're building here on
[29:36] Speaker 1: Almost Live Nashville. We'll see you next time.

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