# Episode 4: A Strange Getaway

An episode of [Bronwyn](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1748010922), 13 Jun 2024, 1 h 13 min.

Audio: https://p.podderapp.com/2544644999/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/2fb3740d-3436-44af-8cc0-a91900716aa5/0e400008-7145-4507-9ec3-b16f003bc21e/7137aee9-7c52-4ed2-bc61-b18700638d7b/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=9c4a5876-5f11-4f95-b245-b16f003c3379

Bronwyn's estranged husband, Jon, hastily packs the family car for an unplanned drive through the night to Sydney with the two girls. His neighbour, Murray Nolan, hears the car's distinctive brakes and is surprised to see the Ford sedan quietly rolling down Sandstone Crescent with lights off and engine off at 10:40pm on Sunday, May 16, 1993. When Jon arrives in Sydney he says Bronwyn has gone away for a break, leaving him to look after the girls. Bronwyn is never seen again and friends say she had no plans to go away. Read more about this case and see photographs, maps, timelines and more at bronwynpodcast.com. If you have information which may help solve this cold case, you can contact our team confidentially by emailing bronwyn@theaustralian.com.au If you need support, Lifeline can be reached on 13 11 14. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:00] Speaker 1: Listeners are advised that this podcast series Bromman contains coarse
[0:04] Speaker 1: language and adult themes. This podcast series is brought to
[0:08] Speaker 1: you by me Hedley Thomas and The Australian Listen Photos.
[0:43] Speaker 2: Oh here we go. This is why I kept this.
[0:46] Speaker 2: What you can see there? That car, I think and
[0:50] Speaker 2: Murray'll be able to tell you for sure was the
[0:53] Speaker 2: car that he used to go to Sydney the night
[0:57] Speaker 2: she disappeared.
[0:58] Speaker 1: I see on the evening of May sixteenth, nineteen ninety three,
[1:04] Speaker 1: Bromwin was at home with her two daughters, next door
[1:07] Speaker 1: to Murray and Devin Sandstone Crescent. John has been away
[1:12] Speaker 1: in Sydney for work. He and Bromwin had formerly separated
[1:16] Speaker 1: seven weeks earlier. The Winfield family car, a white Ford
[1:22] Speaker 1: Falcon Sedan, was in the driveway. Murray always knew when
[1:27] Speaker 1: John or Broman left the house in that car because
[1:30] Speaker 1: of a distinctive noise.
[1:32] Speaker 3: It made it ad litally squeaking brakes. And so that's
[1:35] Speaker 3: why I was sitting here. I thought, I'll get to
[1:37] Speaker 3: your Bromin's car. It's like I heard it before I
[1:39] Speaker 3: saw it. So I'm sitting on the unge here two
[1:43] Speaker 3: Viel's there I'm actually watching Wore the Roses.
[1:47] Speaker 1: The black satirical comedy from the late eighties stars Michael
[1:52] Speaker 1: Douglas and Kathleen Turner. A married couple heading towards a
[1:57] Speaker 1: bitter divorce, The Roses fight to the death for the
[2:01] Speaker 1: family home and its contents. I want a divorce.
[2:06] Speaker 4: No, you don't.
[2:08] Speaker 5: You can't have one.
[2:12] Speaker 6: I've thought about this a lot. I really don't want
[2:15] Speaker 6: to be married to you anymore. I may have let
[2:19] Speaker 6: you have the house, but now you'll never get it.
[2:23] Speaker 1: You will never get that house.
[2:27] Speaker 7: Do you understand?
[2:30] Speaker 8: You will never get that house.
[2:36] Speaker 1: The movement and noise of the white Ford Falcon owned
[2:39] Speaker 1: by his neighbors grabbed Murray's attention, and he stopped watching
[2:43] Speaker 1: War of the Roses.
[2:45] Speaker 7: When I heard the squeaky brakes, someone's stealing Broblem's car.
[2:50] Speaker 1: Can you show me what you saw? Yes?
[2:54] Speaker 9: What?
[2:54] Speaker 7: The lounges used to be there, and the two v
[2:56] Speaker 7: used to be there. So I've got up off that
[2:58] Speaker 7: lounge when I heard the car break squeak, and I
[3:00] Speaker 7: come up here and stood here. Yeah, and it was
[3:04] Speaker 7: all open. I'll see the cargo out there.
[3:07] Speaker 1: Let's walk outside onto the front.
[3:09] Speaker 10: Law.
[3:12] Speaker 1: So Jodn Broman's house.
[3:18] Speaker 7: That's it there.
[3:19] Speaker 1: Has the house changed much?
[3:20] Speaker 7: Hasn't changed at all? Not one thing that exactly.
[3:27] Speaker 1: Did you ever hear them arguing? No, so if they
[3:32] Speaker 1: squabbled or fought, they were fairly quiet. Yeah, yeah, but
[3:36] Speaker 1: you shouldna live far apart.
[3:38] Speaker 7: Yeah, but I never heard it.
[3:39] Speaker 1: Why did you think that it was a car theft
[3:41] Speaker 1: rather than Bromin or John Travil car?
[3:44] Speaker 7: Well, because it's no John was back.
[3:48] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[3:49] Speaker 7: Yeah. The car backed out with no lights.
[3:52] Speaker 3: On, bottomed down on the road, does a big groove
[3:55] Speaker 3: in the road and rolled down the hill down the
[3:59] Speaker 3: bottom of he down here with no lights on.
[4:01] Speaker 7: It's on, the lights on, start the engine and ran
[4:04] Speaker 7: out of the way.
[4:05] Speaker 1: When Murray describes the car bottoming out and leaving a
[4:09] Speaker 1: groove in the road, he's describing what he believes must
[4:12] Speaker 1: have happened. He distinctly heard the noise of what he
[4:16] Speaker 1: says must have been the chassis or underside of the
[4:20] Speaker 1: back of the car beneath the boot or trunk scraping
[4:24] Speaker 1: on Bitchamen. As the car reversed from the sloping driveway
[4:27] Speaker 1: and onto the road of Sandstone Crescent.
[4:31] Speaker 7: The car bottomed out and strap from the road out
[4:33] Speaker 7: the front. But it dug a pretty deep hole in
[4:36] Speaker 7: the road. Have it occasionally spraped before?
[4:39] Speaker 1: Yes?
[4:40] Speaker 3: Yes, At this time when it scraped, it actually dug
[4:42] Speaker 3: it with probably twenty five milad.
[4:46] Speaker 1: And did you infer anything at the time that was
[4:51] Speaker 1: suspicious from that scrape and that noise?
[4:54] Speaker 7: And yeah? Oh for see the boots fitevy.
[4:58] Speaker 1: You remember seeing the car rolling down hill headlights off
[5:01] Speaker 1: and jed off. Had you seen John or Bromin driving
[5:07] Speaker 1: the car down the hill like that?
[5:09] Speaker 7: Pool? Nah?
[5:10] Speaker 1: No, Have you ever driven down this hill without your
[5:14] Speaker 1: engine and lights hill?
[5:15] Speaker 7: No?
[5:15] Speaker 1: No, it's pretty unusual.
[5:17] Speaker 7: It's very unusual. Yeah.
[5:19] Speaker 2: Yeah, And normally they would always come out of.
[5:22] Speaker 7: The driveway and go up the hill. Yeah, it was
[5:25] Speaker 7: an odd thing to do.
[5:26] Speaker 1: Is that what made you suspicious?
[5:29] Speaker 10: Oh?
[5:29] Speaker 7: Definitely.
[5:30] Speaker 3: At the time, I was concerned about someone steel in
[5:34] Speaker 3: my car and it was Brom's car, so I got
[5:37] Speaker 3: up in this twenty to eleven.
[5:39] Speaker 7: That's strange for a car leaving a strong night.
[5:43] Speaker 1: Murray's account of seeing and hearing the Winfield vehicle leaving
[5:47] Speaker 1: the house in Sandstone Crescent on the night of Sunday,
[5:51] Speaker 1: May sixteenth, nineteen ninety three, must be solid. But Bronwan
[5:56] Speaker 1: wasn't driving that car. Her husband John was behind the wheel,
[6:01] Speaker 1: and the reason for the car bottoming out scraping on
[6:05] Speaker 1: the bitchmen. Five years after Bromwin disappeared, the detective sergeant
[6:10] Speaker 1: from Ballina Police, Glenn Taylor, who led a comprehensive investigation
[6:15] Speaker 1: and prepared a significant brief of evidence for an inquest,
[6:19] Speaker 1: was of the view that the car bottomed out because
[6:22] Speaker 1: Broman's body was in the boot or the back seat.
[6:25] Speaker 1: It's a very serious allegation and John Winfield emphatically denies this.
[6:32] Speaker 1: But John certainly does not deny that he was driving
[6:35] Speaker 1: the car about that time. In fact, he says it
[6:39] Speaker 1: was him, and we're going to deal with this in
[6:42] Speaker 1: detail in this episode and in the next one. First,
[6:47] Speaker 1: it's important to establish the chronology of events over the
[6:50] Speaker 1: Saturday and Sunday leading up to the time of about
[6:54] Speaker 1: ten forty pm on Sunday when the family car left
[6:58] Speaker 1: and Bromwin was never again. Will go first to the
[7:03] Speaker 1: evidence of Jody, John's daughter from his first marriage. In
[7:08] Speaker 1: a previous episode, you heard how Bromman had written a
[7:12] Speaker 1: heartfelt letter to Jody pledging love and support for her stepdaughter,
[7:17] Speaker 1: notwithstanding the breakdown of the marriage. In Jody's statement to
[7:22] Speaker 1: police five years later in September nineteen ninety eight, she
[7:26] Speaker 1: discloses a telephone conversation with broman on the Friday, two
[7:31] Speaker 1: days before her stepmother's disappearance.
[7:35] Speaker 11: I can't recall how it happened, but I rang the
[7:37] Speaker 11: house at Sandstone Crescent and Bronwin answered the telephone. She
[7:40] Speaker 11: told me that she'd moved back into the house with
[7:42] Speaker 11: the kids and that she was staying there. She also
[7:45] Speaker 11: told me that Dad was not welcome there and that
[7:47] Speaker 11: he can stay in Sydney with me. She told me
[7:50] Speaker 11: that she was going to get a restraining order so
[7:52] Speaker 11: that he couldn't come near the house. She also told
[7:55] Speaker 11: me that the house belonged to her, and I really
[7:57] Speaker 11: noticed that she changed from the person who wanted us
[7:59] Speaker 11: all to say close. We both started to argue because
[8:02] Speaker 11: I told her that it was not her house and
[8:04] Speaker 11: that it belonged to Dad, Crystal, Lauren and me as well.
[8:09] Speaker 11: I also told her that it belonged to us, more
[8:11] Speaker 11: so because she was the one that chose to leave.
[8:14] Speaker 1: It is an interesting point. Jody is suggesting that because
[8:19] Speaker 1: Bromin had decided to leave John and had moved out
[8:22] Speaker 1: of the house for about seven weeks. Her entitlement to
[8:26] Speaker 1: the property was diminished. John's daughter, Jody, was living in
[8:31] Speaker 1: Sydney at the time of these conversations with Bromwin. She
[8:35] Speaker 1: was eighteen years old and close to her dad. Jody
[8:39] Speaker 1: was twenty three when she gave her statement to police
[8:42] Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety eight. These are her words, it's not
[8:46] Speaker 1: her voice.
[8:48] Speaker 11: I asked her what had made her change her attitude
[8:50] Speaker 11: so much, and she told me that the clairvoyant had
[8:52] Speaker 11: told her to move back in and do all this.
[8:55] Speaker 11: It developed into a very heated argument and we were
[8:58] Speaker 11: yelling at each other, and she hung up on me.
[9:00] Speaker 11: I immediately rang her back and the phone was engaged.
[9:03] Speaker 11: I kept trying, but she must have left the phone
[9:05] Speaker 11: off the hook. The following day, which would have been Saturday,
[9:09] Speaker 11: fifteenth of May nineteen ninety three, I rang the Lennox
[9:12] Speaker 11: head house before I went to work. It would have
[9:15] Speaker 11: been before nine am when I spoke to Cristel and
[9:17] Speaker 11: she told me that Bronwin had gone out for the
[9:19] Speaker 11: day and would not be returning until four o'clock that afternoon.
[9:23] Speaker 11: At that stage, Cristel was about ten years of age
[9:26] Speaker 11: and Lauren was five. I asked Cristel who was minding them,
[9:29] Speaker 11: and she told me that she was minding Lauren and
[9:32] Speaker 11: that it was great because she had never been left
[9:34] Speaker 11: alone before. I told Christel that I wanted to talk
[9:37] Speaker 11: to her mother when she got home. When I terminated
[9:40] Speaker 11: the phone call and told Dad, he appeared to be
[9:43] Speaker 11: very stressed out about it because they had never been
[9:45] Speaker 11: left alone before and he was so far away.
[9:49] Speaker 1: It's hard to know what to make of this claim
[9:52] Speaker 1: by Jody that Bronwin was going to leave her two
[9:55] Speaker 1: children alone in the house through Saturday. Everybody who has
[9:59] Speaker 1: to to me and to the police has stressed how
[10:03] Speaker 1: responsible Bromwin was. If anything, Bromwin was overly protective. That's
[10:09] Speaker 1: the message I took from all of these conversations with witnesses,
[10:13] Speaker 1: and they ranged from those who were close to her
[10:16] Speaker 1: to others who didn't know her well but just saw
[10:19] Speaker 1: her attentiveness. You heard from Virginia Bevis in the previous
[10:24] Speaker 1: episode when she mentioned that her daughter had babysat on
[10:27] Speaker 1: the Saturday night when broman went to the birthday party
[10:31] Speaker 1: in Lennox. Virginia remembers Bromwin disclosing that her stepdaughter Jody
[10:37] Speaker 1: had telephoned the house after broman and the girls had
[10:40] Speaker 1: moved back into Sandstone Crescent, and.
[10:44] Speaker 12: Jodi rang it when she moved back in and said,
[10:46] Speaker 12: how do you move back in Dad's house?
[10:48] Speaker 6: Because she told me that too.
[10:51] Speaker 1: Why would that be?
[10:52] Speaker 6: How do you She was furious.
[10:54] Speaker 12: Yeah, John had said something to Jody, and Jody rang
[10:59] Speaker 12: Bromwin in the abused and.
[11:01] Speaker 6: I remember.
[11:04] Speaker 1: Virginia told me something else, which underlines how careful Bromwin
[11:08] Speaker 1: was with her daughters, Crystal and Lauren. Just before Bromwin
[11:13] Speaker 1: left for the birthday party on the Saturday evening, she
[11:16] Speaker 1: walked with her daughters to the nearby home of Virginia
[11:19] Speaker 1: and her husband Lee.
[11:21] Speaker 12: She was really nervous, and my husband kept on telling
[11:25] Speaker 12: her how great she looked, and it'd be great.
[11:27] Speaker 1: And it wasn't that.
[11:29] Speaker 6: Late that night that we saw.
[11:32] Speaker 1: The reason for the brief meeting was simple. Bromwin had
[11:36] Speaker 1: already made an arrangement for her girls to be babysat
[11:39] Speaker 1: by Virginia and Lee's daughter Celeste.
[11:43] Speaker 6: It was probably Mant sevenish that we saw that she
[11:46] Speaker 6: come over.
[11:47] Speaker 1: Haw'd she see excited?
[11:51] Speaker 12: She was only coming over to pick up our daughter
[11:53] Speaker 12: to take her back there across the road to babysit.
[11:57] Speaker 6: That's why I said she'd never leave those kids.
[12:00] Speaker 7: And she carried the kids in too.
[12:02] Speaker 1: It was about her wanting to look after your daughter
[12:05] Speaker 1: and hers. Yeah at the same time.
[12:08] Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, no, she brought him in.
[12:12] Speaker 1: You just found that was reinforcement with or view that
[12:14] Speaker 1: she was a very dating mother.
[12:16] Speaker 12: Oh god, Ja, even at work at Eden's, it's a
[12:20] Speaker 12: nursing Lauren on her breaks.
[12:22] Speaker 6: And then she wouldn't leave those kids for the world.
[12:27] Speaker 1: You saw her being fairly devoted with her kids.
[12:32] Speaker 5: Just knock on the door. She carried Lauren in and
[12:35] Speaker 5: they were all round way in the world.
[12:37] Speaker 7: She would lead it.
[12:39] Speaker 6: But I never saw her again.
[12:42] Speaker 1: Several hours before Virginia saw her for the last time,
[12:45] Speaker 1: Bronwyn telephoned the home of Richard and Jane Johnston in Sydney.
[12:51] Speaker 1: Richard Johnston is a cousin of John Winfield, and Richard's
[12:55] Speaker 1: wife Jane had become Bromwin's friend. They lived close by
[12:59] Speaker 1: in the shire and even shared a home there for
[13:02] Speaker 1: a month and a half while John was building the
[13:05] Speaker 1: house in Sandstone Crescent, Lennox Head. These are the words
[13:09] Speaker 1: of Richard and Jane Johnston. These are not their voices.
[13:14] Speaker 13: I became a bit of a confidant to Bronwyn and
[13:16] Speaker 13: I got to know her extremely well. We would often
[13:19] Speaker 13: talk on the telephone, and it was mostly for an
[13:21] Speaker 13: hour at a time. When Bronwyn moved to Lennox Head,
[13:24] Speaker 13: we still kept in constant contact. In fact, no longer
[13:28] Speaker 13: than a month would go by without a phone call.
[13:31] Speaker 13: I noticed that the telephone calls from Bronwyn during the
[13:33] Speaker 13: latter part of nineteen ninety two and the early part
[13:36] Speaker 13: of nineteen ninety three contained more specific complaints. These complaints
[13:41] Speaker 13: concerned the possibility of violence. She would often state to
[13:44] Speaker 13: me that she was scared of John and worried that
[13:47] Speaker 13: he would hit her, Although she never ever told me
[13:50] Speaker 13: that he did, and I'm sure she would have if
[13:52] Speaker 13: it had occurred. She did inform me after Christmas that
[13:55] Speaker 13: year he had backed her up against the kitchen cabinets
[13:58] Speaker 13: and raised his hand as if to hit her, but
[14:00] Speaker 13: then just walked away. She would always tell me during
[14:04] Speaker 13: these conversations that she felt like leaving John, and at
[14:07] Speaker 13: one point I told her to leave if it was
[14:09] Speaker 13: really as bad as she said. She would also tell
[14:12] Speaker 13: me that John would keep her short of money and
[14:14] Speaker 13: wouldn't let her have any more than about thirty dollars
[14:17] Speaker 13: in her purse. She would have to account for every
[14:20] Speaker 13: cent that he had given her, and she had to
[14:22] Speaker 13: ask for everything she needed. She couldn't just go and
[14:25] Speaker 13: draw money from the bank. She did say on one
[14:28] Speaker 13: occasion that John would not give her any money because
[14:31] Speaker 13: he wanted to make sure she couldn't leave.
[14:34] Speaker 1: When Richard Johnston spoke to police, he explained that when
[14:38] Speaker 1: he and Jane had last visited Bromwin and John in
[14:41] Speaker 1: the Lennox in October the previous year.
[14:44] Speaker 14: There was some fiction between them. I recall that it
[14:47] Speaker 14: was a very uncomfortable evening. I did not see any
[14:50] Speaker 14: physical contact between them, but there seemed to have been
[14:53] Speaker 14: some verbal confrontation between them.
[14:55] Speaker 1: Earlier, Richard told police about the call that he received
[15:00] Speaker 1: the day before Bronwyn vanished.
[15:03] Speaker 14: The next time I had any contact was on Saturday,
[15:05] Speaker 14: May fifteen, nineteen ninety three. I was at home when
[15:09] Speaker 14: Bronwyn rang on the telephone and asked for Jane. This
[15:12] Speaker 14: would have been somewhere between two thirty and three pm
[15:15] Speaker 14: in the afternoon. I told Bronwyn that Jane was overseas
[15:19] Speaker 14: but would be back in a few weeks. Bronwyn seemed
[15:22] Speaker 14: very upset on the telephone, and I asked her, could
[15:25] Speaker 14: I have Jane ring her. Bronwyn said for me not
[15:28] Speaker 14: to worry and she would ring her later. I did
[15:32] Speaker 14: not know why Bronwyn was upset, but I could tell
[15:34] Speaker 14: something was bothering her by the tone of her voice.
[15:38] Speaker 1: Richard and Jane had emigrated from the United Kingdom several
[15:42] Speaker 1: years earlier, and coincidentally, Richard flew to the UK on
[15:47] Speaker 1: May sixteen, and he and Jane returned to Australia in
[15:51] Speaker 1: June of that year, nineteen ninety three. By then, Bronwyn
[15:55] Speaker 1: had been missing for a month.
[15:57] Speaker 14: I have never had any contact with Bronwyn since what's
[16:00] Speaker 14: the last phone call on May fifteen, nineteen ninety three.
[16:03] Speaker 14: John has told me that he has had no contact
[16:06] Speaker 14: with Bronwyn either.
[16:09] Speaker 13: I feel certain that if she was still alive, she
[16:11] Speaker 13: would have made contact with her children if nobody else.
[16:14] Speaker 13: She was a very devoted mother, and I am certain
[16:17] Speaker 13: that she would not have left the children willingly.
[16:20] Speaker 1: Shortly before the release of this episode, for Cristel assured
[16:24] Speaker 1: friends and family of her hopes for a result from
[16:27] Speaker 1: the podcast investigation into the disappearance of her mother, Bronwyn.
[16:32] Speaker 1: Cristel does not know what happened to her mother. She
[16:36] Speaker 1: likes to post photographs of her. More photos, including some
[16:40] Speaker 1: Crystal has never seen, are being sent in now by
[16:44] Speaker 1: people who knew Bronwyn. Some of the images include Crystal
[16:47] Speaker 1: from when she was a little girl. I doubt Cristel
[16:51] Speaker 1: will talk on the record in this podcast, and I
[16:54] Speaker 1: haven't asked her to be a participant. It's well understood
[16:58] Speaker 1: on Bromwyn's side of the family that Crystal doesn't want
[17:01] Speaker 1: to upset her sister Lauren or her stepfather, John Winfield.
[17:07] Speaker 1: Lauren hasn't had contact with her mom's side of the
[17:10] Speaker 1: family for three decades, but Cristel is close to the
[17:14] Speaker 1: read relations. In Cristel's recent message to her friends and
[17:19] Speaker 1: family via Facebook, she posted some happy photographs of herself.
[17:24] Speaker 1: She wrote, I just want.
[17:26] Speaker 15: To thank everyone that has reached out to me this
[17:29] Speaker 15: week to see how I'm doing. In conjunction with the
[17:32] Speaker 15: recent Headley Thomas podcast release of my mother's disappearance. It
[17:37] Speaker 15: has not been easy all these years. I chose not
[17:42] Speaker 15: to be involved in it for various reasons. However, I
[17:46] Speaker 15: do have a few theories on her disappearance based on
[17:49] Speaker 15: my own life experiences, and maybe someone out there knows
[17:53] Speaker 15: the truth. Maybe we can finally solve this mystery and
[17:57] Speaker 15: put it all behind us. It's been so nice to
[18:01] Speaker 15: reconnect with so many of you, and.
[18:05] Speaker 1: Now weekends with Peter Vegan on four VC.
[18:11] Speaker 16: Good Morning, Brisbane, Happy Saturday. It is the first of
[18:14] Speaker 16: June and the first day of whinther It's the case
[18:17] Speaker 16: of Bronwyn Winfield, who went missing from her home in
[18:20] Speaker 16: Lennox Head thirty one years ago, leaving behind her two
[18:24] Speaker 16: children and never to be heard from again. I listened
[18:28] Speaker 16: to that Bronwen podcast yesterday and for people on the
[18:30] Speaker 16: outside that don't understand how we work. If we're trying
[18:34] Speaker 16: to get a family to speak about, whether it's a
[18:36] Speaker 16: cold case an accident, at times you have to offer
[18:39] Speaker 16: them a guarantee or a result, and families expect that
[18:43] Speaker 16: if they do speak to you, that something is going
[18:45] Speaker 16: to happen. How difficult is it for you Headley, to
[18:47] Speaker 16: sit down with a family and not be able to
[18:50] Speaker 16: guarantee that there's going to be an outcome if they
[18:52] Speaker 16: tell their story.
[18:53] Speaker 1: I have a general rule.
[18:54] Speaker 10: I don't want to raise expectations to such a level
[18:58] Speaker 10: that they believe they're definitely going to get justice that
[19:02] Speaker 10: they believe has been denied for sometimes decades. I assure
[19:06] Speaker 10: them that I'll give it absolute total commitment. It will
[19:11] Speaker 10: bring mistiness who knows something, who have never talked before
[19:16] Speaker 10: out of the woodwork. It causes people who have been
[19:19] Speaker 10: keeping secrets a long time to think, I don't want
[19:23] Speaker 10: to do this anymore. I actually want to tell Headley
[19:27] Speaker 10: or the cops something that I saw or heard, something.
[19:30] Speaker 7: That might be relevant.
[19:32] Speaker 10: And that's why it's never too late with these cases.
[19:35] Speaker 10: There's always a possibility of more and fresh, better information
[19:41] Speaker 10: being produced. Unfortunately, a lot of cold cases that they
[19:46] Speaker 10: can just age and go stale in an unsolved homicide
[19:50] Speaker 10: squad's filing cabinet where there are so many of these.
[19:56] Speaker 10: What the podcast investigations can do is all of the
[20:00] Speaker 10: information in a coherent way over multiple episodes and attract
[20:06] Speaker 10: witnesses who have never talked.
[20:08] Speaker 16: Before for people that may not be aware of Bromwin Winfield.
[20:11] Speaker 16: She was a young mother that lived in the town
[20:13] Speaker 16: of lenox Head in New South Wales, a very small town.
[20:17] Speaker 16: Head Lee a lot of people would find it difficult
[20:19] Speaker 16: to keep secrets in a town like Lenox Head. But
[20:22] Speaker 16: once again we have this, Oh the mother just took
[20:26] Speaker 16: off mentality.
[20:27] Speaker 10: How deeply stupid is that proposition? Then somebody could just
[20:33] Speaker 10: sort of start again without the children that they've always
[20:37] Speaker 10: dosed on, without leaving any trace, any evidence of life.
[20:43] Speaker 10: And in Bromin's case, she's a very dedicated mother of two.
[20:48] Speaker 1: Why would she take off?
[20:50] Speaker 16: For someone to think that the mother would just leave
[20:52] Speaker 16: their children a devoted mother. We hope that some good
[20:55] Speaker 16: and I'm sure it will will come out of this
[20:57] Speaker 16: podcast series.
[20:58] Speaker 10: I really appreciate pir Thank you.
[21:02] Speaker 1: This podcast series may be the last chance to solve
[21:05] Speaker 1: a mystery spanning three decades, the last opportunity for Bromwin's
[21:10] Speaker 1: family and loved ones and friends to know the truth.
[21:14] Speaker 1: If you know something about Bromwin, about her marriage, about
[21:18] Speaker 1: her fate that you believe could make some difference, even
[21:22] Speaker 1: a small difference, then send me an email confidentially. The
[21:26] Speaker 1: address is Bromwyn at the Australian dot com dot au.
[21:56] Speaker 1: Let's go back to the police statement of John's daughter Jody,
[22:00] Speaker 1: describing the events of the Saturday afternoon.
[22:03] Speaker 11: I started ringing at four pm, and from memory, I
[22:06] Speaker 11: think she answered and hung up when she heard my
[22:08] Speaker 11: voice because she knew what was going to happen. I
[22:11] Speaker 11: tried ringing her straight after, but she must have left
[22:13] Speaker 11: the phone off the hook again. It was off the
[22:15] Speaker 11: hook all night. I told Dad and he made arrangements
[22:18] Speaker 11: to fly to Balaner the following day. I felt that
[22:21] Speaker 11: I was out of the situation then when Dad was
[22:23] Speaker 11: going back home to sort it out, so I left
[22:26] Speaker 11: it to him. I can't recall whether I tried ringing
[22:29] Speaker 11: the following day. The following afternoon, Sunday, May sixteenth, nineteen
[22:33] Speaker 11: ninety three, I drove Dad to the Sydney Airport so
[22:36] Speaker 11: that he could catch the plane to Balliner.
[22:39] Speaker 1: The last time I spoke to bron was on the Saturday.
[22:42] Speaker 17: We then later found out that she had a shift
[22:47] Speaker 17: at the takeaway shop on the Sunday afternoon, and the
[22:51] Speaker 17: girls were at home playing with the next door neighbor
[22:55] Speaker 17: on the life side, Debbie's kids, and Debbie was looking
[22:58] Speaker 17: after him and the kids were sort of playing him
[23:00] Speaker 17: in the tree.
[23:00] Speaker 1: Holmes, John's older brother by two years, Peter Winfield, was
[23:05] Speaker 1: interviewed by the police. Detective Sergeant Glenn Taylor in nineteen
[23:10] Speaker 1: ninety eight. Peter said he hadn't been aware of trouble
[23:14] Speaker 1: in the marriage until he heard that Bromwin had moved
[23:16] Speaker 1: out of the house. It was during this separation period
[23:20] Speaker 1: that John moved to Sydney for work, and for a
[23:23] Speaker 1: while he stayed at his brother Peter's house.
[23:27] Speaker 4: I can't recall how long John stayed with us, or
[23:29] Speaker 4: if he confided with me in what was happening in
[23:32] Speaker 4: his private life. I do remember that all of a sudden,
[23:35] Speaker 4: John had heard that Bronwin had returned or was going
[23:37] Speaker 4: to return to the family home at Lennox Head. I
[23:40] Speaker 4: think John was worried that if he didn't go back,
[23:42] Speaker 4: he would find out that he would be locked out
[23:45] Speaker 4: and it wouldn't be his home anymore.
[23:47] Speaker 1: It's the same view expressed by his niece, John's daughter Jody,
[23:53] Speaker 1: that the partner living in the house could make the
[23:56] Speaker 1: stronger claim to ownership of the house.
[23:59] Speaker 4: I remember leaving our home to go to Bowena. I
[24:02] Speaker 4: don't recall whether he said anything about Bronwyn or what
[24:05] Speaker 4: was happening at that stage.
[24:07] Speaker 1: Peter's wife, Louise, however, had a better memory.
[24:11] Speaker 18: John came and saw us and told us that Bronwyn
[24:13] Speaker 18: and the kids had left the house in Lennox Head
[24:16] Speaker 18: and moved into a townhouse. John was very upset and
[24:19] Speaker 18: very emotional at that time. He considered that it was
[24:22] Speaker 18: very unfair that someone could take the children away from
[24:25] Speaker 18: him so easily. John also said that he was worried
[24:29] Speaker 18: that if Bronwin moved back into the house and he
[24:31] Speaker 18: wasn't living there, that he would then be unable to
[24:34] Speaker 18: return to the house himself. As far as I recall,
[24:37] Speaker 18: he told us that he was going back to Lenox
[24:39] Speaker 18: Head to prevent this happening.
[24:42] Speaker 1: John had been bricklaying at a house in Sydney owned
[24:45] Speaker 1: by a contact he had made in the building industry,
[24:48] Speaker 1: Glenn Webster. When John wasn't on the job, he stayed
[24:52] Speaker 1: in a house Glenn and his wife were renting while
[24:55] Speaker 1: their own home was being built with John's help. This
[24:58] Speaker 1: is what Glenn webs did old police during the investigation
[25:01] Speaker 1: by Detective Sergeant Glenn Taylor in nineteen ninety eight.
[25:06] Speaker 19: I recall while the work was going on, John suddenly left.
[25:10] Speaker 19: John didn't tell me where he was going. I don't
[25:12] Speaker 19: remember how I found out, but I later established that
[25:14] Speaker 19: John had gone up to Lennox Head. During the time
[25:17] Speaker 19: that John stayed at our home in Dixon Clothes. He
[25:19] Speaker 19: never mentioned Broman, and at no stage did he ever
[25:22] Speaker 19: tell me that Broman had moved out of his family
[25:24] Speaker 19: home in Lennox Head. On occasions he used our phone
[25:27] Speaker 19: to call home, but I didn't take any notice of
[25:29] Speaker 19: his conversations.
[25:31] Speaker 1: Glenn's wife, Jane Webster added.
[25:34] Speaker 20: I recall that on one occasion, John Winfield phoned his
[25:37] Speaker 20: home when he was staying with us. I remember that
[25:40] Speaker 20: he seemed concerned following this telephone call. I remember asking
[25:44] Speaker 20: John if everything was all right, and he said yes.
[25:48] Speaker 20: John was not the type of person to disclose anything
[25:50] Speaker 20: of his personal life.
[25:53] Speaker 1: I went with Madison Walsh to meet Mel Taylor in
[25:56] Speaker 1: a Brisbane public library after Mel had finished work. Mel
[26:01] Speaker 1: grew up in the home next to John and Bromwin's home.
[26:05] Speaker 1: Mel's parents are Murray and deb and Mel's childhood best
[26:09] Speaker 1: friend back then was Crystal Bronwin's daughter.
[26:12] Speaker 5: How do I know you?
[26:13] Speaker 21: I know it looks really familiar.
[26:15] Speaker 22: I am Bromwin's second cousin, so I'm quite close to Crystal.
[26:19] Speaker 1: Now let's go back to Lennox's Head, nineteen ninety three.
[26:24] Speaker 1: What do you remember about Sunday May sixteen?
[26:29] Speaker 21: I know I was at the park with Crystal and
[26:32] Speaker 21: Lauren that afternoon around five point thirty ish, sixish. I
[26:39] Speaker 21: came home before the girls came home. Bromin came to
[26:41] Speaker 21: that door and she's like, oh, hey, is Lauren and
[26:46] Speaker 21: Crystal here? And like, no, they're at the park. And
[26:48] Speaker 21: she said to me, can you go get them because
[26:50] Speaker 21: her father's coming home.
[26:52] Speaker 7: Is it a strong memory, Yeah, it's a strong memory, yep.
[26:55] Speaker 1: But your confident that was the day she read.
[26:56] Speaker 21: Yeah, because it was a Sunday night.
[26:58] Speaker 1: It was clear to her then that johnthan was coming back.
[27:01] Speaker 21: Yeah, because she had just come home from work. We
[27:04] Speaker 21: were looking after Lauren and Crystal. I had gone with
[27:09] Speaker 21: Crystal and a mum to the house to take boxes
[27:14] Speaker 21: back to Sandstone Present. I wouldn't know how she'd found
[27:18] Speaker 21: out that he was coming home. I think she did
[27:20] Speaker 21: say to me that he was coming on a flight.
[27:24] Speaker 1: As a twelve year old girl in nineteen ninety three,
[27:28] Speaker 1: Mel tried to stay out of John's way.
[27:31] Speaker 21: Us to frighten me the way he used to treat
[27:34] Speaker 21: the girls, his demeanor and he mess whatsoever, he would
[27:40] Speaker 21: just go crazy, very strict.
[27:44] Speaker 1: Are you're going to be strict and not scary?
[27:48] Speaker 21: I think it was this because of the strength of him,
[27:50] Speaker 21: just my memory of the person he was seeing him
[27:54] Speaker 21: working out with his branch press and yeah, that wasn't
[27:57] Speaker 21: the garage.
[27:59] Speaker 1: Did he get cross with you or angry with him?
[28:01] Speaker 21: Not to me.
[28:02] Speaker 1: No.
[28:03] Speaker 21: If the girls had eaten any food and they made
[28:06] Speaker 21: a mess on the floor with the food, he had
[28:08] Speaker 21: seen it, he would be very angry. Said, well, that's
[28:12] Speaker 21: to play over something that was spilt on the floor.
[28:17] Speaker 21: I went talking like minimal like crumbs. And then the
[28:20] Speaker 21: girl's wan allowed to come out and play after that.
[28:23] Speaker 1: What about with Bromwin? How did you observe her?
[28:25] Speaker 21: I love Bromwin. I found out she was such a
[28:27] Speaker 21: beautiful person.
[28:29] Speaker 1: What was it about Bromwen you liked?
[28:31] Speaker 21: She would have done anything for those kids, And that's
[28:34] Speaker 21: what's sad about the whole situation, Like she was, I
[28:38] Speaker 21: was trying to prepare for a better life with the kids.
[28:42] Speaker 9: Giving and taking is equally important, for without the taking,
[28:45] Speaker 9: you lose all feelings of self worth and self esteem.
[28:49] Speaker 9: It can be extremely dangerous and have disastrous repercussions on
[28:53] Speaker 9: those around you, especially with children.
[28:56] Speaker 1: In Bowna, a man called John Watson received a tell
[29:00] Speaker 1: lephone call at his home. He knew John Winfield because
[29:04] Speaker 1: their respective daughters were friends.
[29:07] Speaker 23: John was ringing me from Sydney and he asked me
[29:09] Speaker 23: if I could pick him up from the Balliner Airport
[29:12] Speaker 23: and give him a lift home. That night, about six
[29:15] Speaker 23: thirty pm, I went to the airport and I met John.
[29:18] Speaker 23: He asked me if I could take him to the
[29:20] Speaker 23: Balloner police station prior to taking him home. I drove
[29:24] Speaker 23: him to the police station and I waited in the
[29:26] Speaker 23: car while he went in. He was in the police
[29:28] Speaker 23: station for about five minutes.
[29:32] Speaker 1: After passing the same police station on the drive north
[29:35] Speaker 1: back to Brisbane, I spoke to Madison Walsh about Bromwin
[29:38] Speaker 1: and the probable reason for John's visit on the evening
[29:42] Speaker 1: of May sixteenth, nineteen ninety three.
[29:46] Speaker 24: I think she was trying to get an apprehended violence order.
[29:52] Speaker 24: I reckon she was trying to get that through with
[29:56] Speaker 24: one of the solicitors she was consulting, and that's why
[30:00] Speaker 24: he went to the police station after he landed.
[30:05] Speaker 5: Definitely like that's not normal behavior.
[30:08] Speaker 1: But it hadn't actually been implemented before John came back
[30:13] Speaker 1: from Sydney.
[30:14] Speaker 25: Yeah, that was my thought, because why else would you
[30:17] Speaker 25: go to the police station before going to your house. Yeah,
[30:21] Speaker 25: so he definitely would have assumed that she would have
[30:23] Speaker 25: filed something, but it just hadn't been put through.
[30:26] Speaker 24: Well, it's quite possible that they'd had a conversation when
[30:28] Speaker 24: he rang and spoke to him before he left Sydney, and.
[30:32] Speaker 1: She might have said something like I've got an order
[30:35] Speaker 1: or I'm getting an order or something, and he wanted
[30:37] Speaker 1: to check that.
[30:39] Speaker 5: Because I remember learning in legal studies.
[30:43] Speaker 22: That sometimes you actually have to go into the court
[30:46] Speaker 22: to get the ABO signed for it to be official.
[30:50] Speaker 22: So I don't know if that was like the next
[30:52] Speaker 22: process or anything like that to get it confirmed.
[30:56] Speaker 1: But I can have a look into it and see.
[30:59] Speaker 1: Obviously this area has evolved a lot in recent years,
[31:05] Speaker 1: but thirty one years ago, I don't know what was there.
[31:09] Speaker 25: I don't know, but I can definitely look being there somewhere.
[31:13] Speaker 26: There's an online resource where you can actually look at
[31:18] Speaker 26: the legislation as it existed, say ninety three or ninety eight,
[31:24] Speaker 26: whenever you can see what it allowed for what it
[31:28] Speaker 26: looked like at that time.
[31:29] Speaker 6: Yeah, definitely.
[31:31] Speaker 26: There's also evidence that Ronlin rang her solicitor on Sunday
[31:36] Speaker 26: while John was in the house.
[31:39] Speaker 1: I think that's in the statement of the solicitor.
[31:42] Speaker 5: I'll have a look.
[31:45] Speaker 1: John Watson recalled that John Winfield then asked him to
[31:50] Speaker 1: go to the home of Becky McGuire, another of Jodie's
[31:53] Speaker 1: school friends.
[31:55] Speaker 23: He told me that he wanted Becky to go with
[31:57] Speaker 23: him when he.
[31:58] Speaker 1: Went to the house.
[31:59] Speaker 23: I drove him to her house, and from memory, Becky
[32:03] Speaker 23: was either waiting outside or came out when we pulled up,
[32:08] Speaker 23: and she got into the car. I drove them to
[32:11] Speaker 23: John's house in Sandstone Crescent at Lennoxhead and they got
[32:14] Speaker 23: out of the car and went to the front door,
[32:16] Speaker 23: and I drove home. John told me when he got
[32:19] Speaker 23: out of the car that he would drive Becky home.
[32:23] Speaker 1: Becky McGuire confirmed being collected at her house by John
[32:27] Speaker 1: Winfield and John Watson to go to Sandstone Crescent. Becky
[32:32] Speaker 1: was pregnant with her son at the time. She knew
[32:35] Speaker 1: Bromwin and her husband. John threw her friendship with Jody.
[32:40] Speaker 27: He told me that he needed someone there just in
[32:42] Speaker 27: case something happened as he just wanted to pick up
[32:45] Speaker 27: some clothes and needed a witness there Whilst he did this,
[32:48] Speaker 27: John Watson dropped us on the other side of the road,
[32:50] Speaker 27: about two doors up from the Winfield's house. John Watson
[32:54] Speaker 27: drove away. We walked up to the front of the
[32:56] Speaker 27: house and John knocked on the door. The door opened
[33:00] Speaker 27: and Bronwyn and the children were standing at the door.
[33:03] Speaker 27: I wasn't really paying much attention at the time, but
[33:05] Speaker 27: I recall Bronwyn babbling on about something, but they weren't arguing.
[33:11] Speaker 1: It does seem an oddly pejoritied way for Becky to
[33:14] Speaker 1: describe whatever Bronwyn said when John arrived.
[33:18] Speaker 27: I can't recall what she was going on about.
[33:21] Speaker 21: She used to babble on all the time.
[33:24] Speaker 27: Bronwin walked back into the house towards the kitchen and
[33:27] Speaker 27: John gave the girls a cuddle, and I saw that
[33:29] Speaker 27: Lauren was crying. I saw two suitcases inside the doorway,
[33:33] Speaker 27: and John picked them up and put them in the car.
[33:36] Speaker 1: Clearly, Bromwyn had packed John's things and put them near
[33:40] Speaker 1: the front door, ready to go, with the intention of
[33:43] Speaker 1: him taking those two suitcases away the car, which Becky
[33:48] Speaker 1: is referring to is the white Ford Falcon Sedan, the
[33:51] Speaker 1: one with the squeaky brakes.
[33:54] Speaker 27: John must have had a set of keys to the car,
[33:56] Speaker 27: because we then got into the car and he drove
[33:58] Speaker 27: me home. I remember who both Crystal and Lauren were
[34:01] Speaker 27: standing at the window inside the house watching as we
[34:04] Speaker 27: reversed out of the driveway. John didn't go inside the
[34:08] Speaker 27: house at all while I was in the house with him.
[34:11] Speaker 27: While we were driving back to my house, John thanked
[34:13] Speaker 27: me for coming with him and told me he was
[34:15] Speaker 27: sorry for getting me involved. I haven't seen Bronwin since
[34:19] Speaker 27: that night I went to her place with John.
[34:22] Speaker 1: You are going to hear how Becky, who was twenty
[34:25] Speaker 1: two at the time of her statement, perceived Bromwyn.
[34:29] Speaker 27: During the time that I knew Bronwyn, she had terrible
[34:31] Speaker 27: mood swings, and Jody and her would fight a lot
[34:33] Speaker 27: while I was there, and we would go into Jody's
[34:36] Speaker 27: bedroom to get away from her. I was positive that
[34:39] Speaker 27: Bronwin had a split personality, because one minute she was
[34:42] Speaker 27: fine and friendly, and the next minute she was cranky
[34:45] Speaker 27: and yelling and generally going off the deep end about
[34:47] Speaker 27: nothing at all.
[34:50] Speaker 1: Telephone records show that at seven oh six pm a
[34:54] Speaker 1: call was made from the home phone at Sandstone Crescent
[34:57] Speaker 1: to Peter and Louise Winfield's house in Sydney. John was
[35:02] Speaker 1: calling his brother to let him know he had arrived safely.
[35:06] Speaker 1: It's a call made just thirty six minutes after John
[35:10] Speaker 1: Watson estimated that he had picked John up from the
[35:13] Speaker 1: airport at Ballina. At the house, what happened next, only
[35:20] Speaker 1: two people really knew for sure, bronwin and John.
[35:25] Speaker 9: Whoever said that love makes the world go round was correct.
[35:29] Speaker 9: I have felt it all around me recently, some hate
[35:32] Speaker 9: as well, but mainly the compassion for another person in pain.
[35:37] Speaker 1: John insists that his estranged wife told him in the
[35:41] Speaker 1: house that evening that she wanted to have a break
[35:44] Speaker 1: for a few days, and he said she had gone
[35:47] Speaker 1: into their bedroom and made a telephone call, resulting in
[35:51] Speaker 1: a car he didn't see, driven by an unknown person
[35:54] Speaker 1: stopping outside and Bromin getting in, and John says that's
[35:59] Speaker 1: the last time he saw his wife. In the episode
[36:03] Speaker 1: after this one, you are going to hear a lot
[36:06] Speaker 1: more detail about John's version of events. He explained it
[36:10] Speaker 1: to the local police in Ballina in nineteen ninety three,
[36:14] Speaker 1: and again five years later when Detective Sergeant Glenn Taylor
[36:18] Speaker 1: became involved and recorded a formal interview. I've obtained the
[36:23] Speaker 1: documentation and I've been comparing it with the versions which
[36:26] Speaker 1: are remembered by Bromman's family and friends. For now, I
[36:31] Speaker 1: want to consider the proposition which is implicit in so
[36:35] Speaker 1: much of what has been said by Bromman's friends and family,
[36:38] Speaker 1: and that is that Bromwin was a very loving mother
[36:41] Speaker 1: who would never have left her two girls. On one
[36:45] Speaker 1: of my drives from Brisbane to Lennox Head, I telephoned
[36:49] Speaker 1: my friend Brian Jordan, a retired family court judge. Brian
[36:54] Speaker 1: knew nothing about Bromman's disappearance when we spoke, but he
[36:58] Speaker 1: had closely found though the first podcast series I did
[37:02] Speaker 1: about Lynn Dawson's nineteen eighty two disappearance from the Northern
[37:06] Speaker 1: Beaches and the suspicion which fell eventually onto her husband Chris.
[37:12] Speaker 1: Listeners of The Teacher's Pet might recall Brian, who was
[37:16] Speaker 1: featured in several episodes as the investigation unfolded in twenty eighteen.
[37:22] Speaker 1: Here's a brief snippet from one of those episodes. In
[37:26] Speaker 1: June nineteen eighty three, with Lynn a fading memory for
[37:30] Speaker 1: her very young children. Chris and Lynn were divorced. I
[37:34] Speaker 1: asked Brian Jordan, a friend and a retired senior judge,
[37:38] Speaker 1: to review some of the documents from the coronial proceedings.
[37:42] Speaker 1: What's the minimum period that two married people must be
[37:46] Speaker 1: separated before they can apply for a divorce?
[37:50] Speaker 28: A minimum of twelve months, and a mere separation itself
[37:56] Speaker 28: may not qualify it. The relationship must be ended. There
[38:00] Speaker 28: must be an irretrievable breakdown of the marriage. Now, I
[38:04] Speaker 28: don't know, and you'd know more whether mister Dawson acknowledges
[38:09] Speaker 28: that the relationship was over the day his wife walked
[38:13] Speaker 28: out of the.
[38:13] Speaker 1: Home, well legedly walked out in Bronwin's case, another mother
[38:19] Speaker 1: in a failing marriage, another deeply suspicious disappearance. Six years
[38:25] Speaker 1: after Brian spoke about the legalities of separation and divorce
[38:29] Speaker 1: for an episode in The Teacher's Pet about Chris and Lynn,
[38:33] Speaker 1: we talked about Bronwyn her disappearance and John, let's go
[38:39] Speaker 1: back to late twenty seventeen and early twenty eighteen. You
[38:45] Speaker 1: were interested in podcast investigation I was doing at that
[38:48] Speaker 1: time into the disappearance of Lynn and that was for
[38:53] Speaker 1: the teacher's pets. What stood out for you most in
[39:00] Speaker 1: that case when I first described it to you.
[39:04] Speaker 29: As soon as you mention that she left her four
[39:08] Speaker 29: year old and two year old daughter, so she had
[39:12] Speaker 29: difficulty with conceiving those two children and was a convoted,
[39:16] Speaker 29: dedicated mother, my ears picked up and I started paying
[39:20] Speaker 29: attention and our.
[39:21] Speaker 5: End of saying, just she didn't leave those children. It
[39:25] Speaker 5: was that dark that It was that moment that comstallized,
[39:30] Speaker 5: and it gave me the interest in the story.
[39:32] Speaker 29: And it's not a conclusive because of study.
[39:36] Speaker 5: It's a compelling piece.
[39:37] Speaker 29: Of circumstantial evidence her wife family, without any prior indication
[39:45] Speaker 29: of intentions do so people walk out of their lives
[39:49] Speaker 29: for her two children to never see them again, never
[39:54] Speaker 29: inquire about them again.
[39:56] Speaker 5: It's just inherently improbable.
[40:00] Speaker 29: Session is so improbable as to cause one in one
[40:05] Speaker 29: to look for other reasons for children being abandoned other
[40:08] Speaker 29: than the car and walking out on their lives.
[40:12] Speaker 1: I know you, Brian, as a very dedicated father and husband,
[40:20] Speaker 1: and Pauline, your wife, as a very dedicated mother, But
[40:26] Speaker 1: what else are you facing that view on, apart from
[40:31] Speaker 1: your own observations of Pauline and perhaps other brothers.
[40:37] Speaker 30: You know, a culmination of factors, including twenty years just
[40:42] Speaker 30: a family called joke, carrying children's cases on an almost
[40:47] Speaker 30: daily base, and seeing the extent to which parents we
[40:53] Speaker 30: go to the brink to retain a relationship with contact
[40:58] Speaker 30: with their children.
[41:00] Speaker 5: Stinkive thing.
[41:01] Speaker 29: There's bonding with their children that they find impossible to
[41:06] Speaker 29: let go.
[41:07] Speaker 5: Also, in the course of.
[41:09] Speaker 29: Hearing cases for twenty years, I did hear in olog
[41:13] Speaker 29: experience getting evidence about the bonding between parents and their children,
[41:20] Speaker 29: and in particular the bond between mother, biological mother and
[41:27] Speaker 29: young children is extremely strong. It's what enables parents and
[41:35] Speaker 29: in this case mothers so almost invaribly.
[41:39] Speaker 5: Took their own lives.
[41:40] Speaker 31: I had those and their children if it comes to
[41:43] Speaker 31: those sorts of terrible choice. So it's my personal experience,
[41:49] Speaker 31: my experience as a family lawyer.
[41:51] Speaker 29: And visiting new experts that I can't remember a case
[41:57] Speaker 29: where a mother had abandoned her John cares fewer question.
[42:02] Speaker 29: What did the investigation, the inevitable investigation of the table
[42:07] Speaker 29: one suspect to the husband, what did that reveal?
[42:13] Speaker 5: Well?
[42:14] Speaker 1: The original investigation by police in nineteen ninety three was
[42:23] Speaker 1: very peacemeal. I gave Brian a summary of the separation
[42:30] Speaker 1: and then the last days of Bromwin in Lennox Head.
[42:34] Speaker 1: How she had moved back into the house at Sandstone
[42:37] Speaker 1: Crescent with her two girls on a Friday afternoon in
[42:40] Speaker 1: May nineteen ninety three while John was away working in Sydney,
[42:46] Speaker 1: and she was there through the Saturday. On the Sunday
[42:51] Speaker 1: early evening, John turned up. He flew from Sydney to Ballana.
[42:58] Speaker 1: It wasn't schedule. He left his work job suddenly because
[43:02] Speaker 1: he must have become aware that Bromin was back in
[43:05] Speaker 1: the home.
[43:07] Speaker 5: And how then have they been separated.
[43:10] Speaker 1: A couple of months. He went to the home. Now
[43:15] Speaker 1: we don't know what happened next apart from what he says.
[43:18] Speaker 1: The children, they were very young. It was close to bedtimes.
[43:23] Speaker 1: Believed that they were put to bed.
[43:26] Speaker 26: John says that there was a disagreement, but not he did.
[43:33] Speaker 1: He says that Bromin said she needed some time away
[43:35] Speaker 1: from the kitchen, needed a break. That she made a
[43:38] Speaker 1: telephone call and somebody came to pick her up and
[43:42] Speaker 1: she left. I told Brian that the next thing that
[43:46] Speaker 1: happened close to eleven PM after Bromman had purportedly left
[43:51] Speaker 1: in an unknown person's car. Was the sighting of the
[43:54] Speaker 1: Winfield car the white Ford Falcon leaving the house rolling
[44:00] Speaker 1: down the driveway, but the headlights weren't turned on and the.
[44:05] Speaker 32: Engine wasn't on either, so it rolled silently down the hill,
[44:11] Speaker 32: and then at the bottom of the hill the lights
[44:14] Speaker 32: came on and the engine was turned on.
[44:16] Speaker 1: The other observation by that witness was that as the
[44:20] Speaker 1: car left the driveway to turn onto the road and
[44:26] Speaker 1: rolled down hill, there was a scraping noise. He resumed
[44:32] Speaker 1: it was from the back of the vehicle, and John
[44:36] Speaker 1: drove through the night. It wasn't planned. He took the
[44:40] Speaker 1: girls to Sidney. The marriage had been under quite a
[44:43] Speaker 1: lot of strain. She, according to the statements by some
[44:49] Speaker 1: of her.
[44:49] Speaker 33: Friends, was concerned about John, somewhat fearful. Her uncle observed
[44:58] Speaker 33: bruising on her arm.
[45:00] Speaker 1: Roberts said that John had assaulted her in his usual
[45:05] Speaker 1: measured way. Brian injected a note of caution. He referenced
[45:09] Speaker 1: the Teacher's Pet podcast and the eventual case against Chris Dawson,
[45:13] Speaker 1: who was found guilty of Lynd's murder in August twenty
[45:16] Speaker 1: twenty two.
[45:18] Speaker 5: You've got to be mindful of the trump. Your instincts
[45:23] Speaker 5: were right.
[45:24] Speaker 29: Your investigations were central to the eventual successful prosecution.
[45:29] Speaker 5: Of that man.
[45:31] Speaker 29: Doesn't guarantee that you're infallible on another matter that you're pursuing,
[45:36] Speaker 29: Does it say?
[45:37] Speaker 5: Cause is always required? In the sense of matter.
[46:04] Speaker 1: You're going to hear again now from Michelle Reid, Bronwin's
[46:09] Speaker 1: sister in law, the wife of Andy Reid. She's describing
[46:13] Speaker 1: an unexpected event at their Sydney home on the afternoon
[46:17] Speaker 1: of Monday, May seventeenth, nineteen ninety three. Andy had not
[46:23] Speaker 1: yet arrived home from work. What do you learn on Monday?
[46:29] Speaker 34: I was just in the kitchen and there was a
[46:32] Speaker 34: knock on the door.
[46:34] Speaker 5: I didn't have my glasses on.
[46:35] Speaker 34: I couldn't work out who it was because I looked
[46:38] Speaker 34: down the hallway to the front door. When I got
[46:41] Speaker 34: down there, I was really shocked to see John and
[46:45] Speaker 34: the two girls.
[46:46] Speaker 5: Wow, what's going on?
[46:49] Speaker 34: I thought they were in Lennox.
[46:52] Speaker 21: At that point.
[46:53] Speaker 34: We didn't know that John had taken himself up there
[46:58] Speaker 34: because we hadn't.
[46:59] Speaker 6: Heard any of that.
[47:00] Speaker 34: That all happened, and then John was all the was
[47:03] Speaker 34: sung with the kids. So I said, what are you
[47:08] Speaker 34: doing here? John was nervous talking, he was mumbly. He
[47:16] Speaker 34: actually ushered the kids inside because he didn't.
[47:20] Speaker 6: Want to talk in front of them.
[47:21] Speaker 34: And we were standing on our little front veranda, just
[47:25] Speaker 34: cheir and I. He said, oh, Bromwin's left me, and
[47:29] Speaker 34: I went, oh, okay. He was like jittery and all
[47:34] Speaker 34: of that, and then he said, well, actually she needed
[47:37] Speaker 34: a break. She's going on a holiday. And I thought
[47:40] Speaker 34: to myself, oh, is she on a holiday or she
[47:42] Speaker 34: left him?
[47:43] Speaker 21: Like, in my head, I'm thinking that's weird.
[47:46] Speaker 34: It's just my nature to be a little bit suspicious
[47:49] Speaker 34: and stuff.
[47:50] Speaker 1: But to your knowledge, she had already left it.
[47:54] Speaker 34: And then he switched it to she needed a break,
[47:58] Speaker 34: she needs a break, and she going to get her
[48:00] Speaker 34: head together.
[48:01] Speaker 21: For her and so he brought the kids to Sydney.
[48:04] Speaker 1: You'd heard from Romwin previously that there was no going back. Yep,
[48:08] Speaker 1: the marriage was finished.
[48:09] Speaker 21: Yep.
[48:10] Speaker 34: When he first spoke, he was going down the lines
[48:13] Speaker 34: of she's walked out and left, and she's left me
[48:17] Speaker 34: with the kids, and then it switched to she needed
[48:21] Speaker 34: a break for a few days, She's gone away for
[48:23] Speaker 34: a few days to get her head together. I said
[48:26] Speaker 34: to him where he's staying, and they decided they'd stay
[48:30] Speaker 34: with us, So I said, come on, we'll go and
[48:32] Speaker 34: get have you got stuff. Went up to the back
[48:35] Speaker 34: of the car he was packed in our cul de
[48:37] Speaker 34: sac on the road, and he opened the boot. He
[48:41] Speaker 34: was picking up pillowcases, and inside pillowcases were just kids clothes,
[48:47] Speaker 34: stuff like stuffed in a pillowcase, pillowcase here and a
[48:50] Speaker 34: pillowcase there, and there might have been a smallish bag
[48:55] Speaker 34: of some sort. I kind of thought, oh, why are
[48:59] Speaker 34: you so who disheveled? Why isn't anything organized? And I
[49:05] Speaker 34: said to him, what I come you down here like this?
[49:09] Speaker 34: Like what don't you wait sort of thing until tomorrow?
[49:11] Speaker 34: Because he said we always drove overnight because the kids
[49:16] Speaker 34: slept better. He brought in some stuff out of the
[49:21] Speaker 34: back of the car. At the boot he said three
[49:25] Speaker 34: significant things on the front veranda. She's got the kids,
[49:30] Speaker 34: she's got the car, and she's not having the house too.
[49:35] Speaker 34: And they were the three things that John said on
[49:38] Speaker 34: the front veranda before Andrew got home. If she's only
[49:42] Speaker 34: going way for a couple of days, what has that
[49:45] Speaker 34: got to do with anything.
[49:47] Speaker 1: I've read in your evidence that you say to him,
[49:50] Speaker 1: why are you in such a hurry? And then he
[49:54] Speaker 1: shows you something.
[49:55] Speaker 34: Yeah, he gets out of his wallet and he's got
[49:57] Speaker 34: like a little receipt that you get from the cashier,
[50:02] Speaker 34: and he got petrol eleven o six at.
[50:04] Speaker 1: A service station near Lennox.
[50:06] Speaker 21: Yeah, yep, yep. And then he put it back in
[50:09] Speaker 21: his wallet.
[50:11] Speaker 1: What did he say when he showed that to you?
[50:14] Speaker 34: Just proving to me that he left eleven o six
[50:21] Speaker 34: and got petrol. And I kind of thought to himself,
[50:24] Speaker 34: why you showed me that. I don't care if you
[50:27] Speaker 34: got petrol, Like, because at that point on the front Verandah,
[50:32] Speaker 34: I suppose never put it into our heads that something
[50:37] Speaker 34: sinister may have happened. It was very confusing as to
[50:42] Speaker 34: why he was there.
[50:43] Speaker 21: And I just thought, why did you show me.
[50:45] Speaker 1: Eleven o six? You remembered the receipt for eleven oh
[50:49] Speaker 1: six pm. Ye, the night before yep. But doesn't really
[50:53] Speaker 1: show what time he left, does it?
[50:55] Speaker 34: Because he could have got fuel or he could have
[50:58] Speaker 34: done anything.
[51:00] Speaker 1: What time he got fuel. But he could have gone
[51:02] Speaker 1: back to.
[51:02] Speaker 34: The house of the house that he could have gone anywhere,
[51:04] Speaker 34: could have gone anywhere, kids could have been asleep in
[51:07] Speaker 34: the house. He could have done lots of things in
[51:10] Speaker 34: that time.
[51:12] Speaker 1: Do you still find at baffling or do you have
[51:13] Speaker 1: some ideas about why he showed it to you.
[51:18] Speaker 34: I think it was his evidence to prove that he
[51:25] Speaker 34: had got petrol, to show that he had left and
[51:31] Speaker 34: gone to Sydney.
[51:33] Speaker 21: But I don't know why.
[51:35] Speaker 1: Had he told you that he had arrived in Sydney
[51:37] Speaker 1: that morning.
[51:38] Speaker 34: Help and then he would drive through the night and
[51:42] Speaker 34: see At that point in time, I assumed he comes
[51:48] Speaker 34: straight to us, like where the family.
[51:53] Speaker 1: On the Monday morning, a sixty year old woman called
[51:57] Speaker 1: Joan Mason was visiting at her son Brad's house in
[52:00] Speaker 1: the Sydney suburb of caring Bar. Brad lived there with
[52:04] Speaker 1: his wife, Jennifer. These are Jones' words. It's not her voice.
[52:10] Speaker 1: It's from her police statement in nineteen ninety eight.
[52:14] Speaker 35: I remember on that day I heard a knock at
[52:16] Speaker 35: the front door. My daughter in law, Jenny, was out
[52:20] Speaker 35: and I was not sure where Brad was. I answered
[52:23] Speaker 35: the door and I saw a man who introduced himself
[52:25] Speaker 35: as Winfield. I don't remember his first name, but I
[52:29] Speaker 35: recall he told me that he had been Jenny's first husband.
[52:33] Speaker 35: I saw that he had two young girls with him.
[52:36] Speaker 35: I remember both these young girls were dressed in pajamas.
[52:39] Speaker 35: I remember this man Winfield asked me could he leave
[52:43] Speaker 35: the two girls as he was in Sydney to do
[52:45] Speaker 35: a big job. He said something about being in the
[52:48] Speaker 35: building game and he had to go and see someone
[52:50] Speaker 35: about a job. He said that he had been driving
[52:53] Speaker 35: all night. He said he needed to leave the children
[52:55] Speaker 35: with someone. I recalled telling him that he could leave
[52:59] Speaker 35: the kids there and I would tell Jenny when she
[53:01] Speaker 35: came home. He left the children with me and I
[53:04] Speaker 35: looked after them until Jenny arrived back home. I remember
[53:08] Speaker 35: this man Winfield arrived back at the house at Carrying
[53:10] Speaker 35: Bar later that afternoon. He went out in the backyard
[53:14] Speaker 35: and they spoke for some time. After that, he took
[53:18] Speaker 35: the children and left the house.
[53:20] Speaker 1: It sounds highly unusual. John has gone to the home
[53:25] Speaker 1: of his first wife, Jenny, but she was out in
[53:29] Speaker 1: her absence, John has persuaded a woman he has never met,
[53:33] Speaker 1: the mother in law of Jenny, to look after his
[53:35] Speaker 1: children for the day. The timing is interesting too. Joan
[53:40] Speaker 1: Mason recalled that John arrived at the house some time
[53:44] Speaker 1: in the morning, he left the house in his car
[53:47] Speaker 1: without his children. A short time later, he returned again
[53:52] Speaker 1: in the afternoon, collected the children and drove to the
[53:55] Speaker 1: home of Michelle and Andy Reid. But Michelle and Andy
[53:59] Speaker 1: didn't know about those movements until the detective Sergeant Glenn
[54:04] Speaker 1: Taylor got to the bottom of it five years later.
[54:07] Speaker 34: That blew me away, blom me away.
[54:10] Speaker 1: But he didn't tell you that.
[54:12] Speaker 34: No, these kids, they would never have met Jenny, let
[54:18] Speaker 34: alone Jenny's.
[54:19] Speaker 6: Mother in law.
[54:20] Speaker 34: He made out that he come to Sydney and he'd
[54:25] Speaker 34: come to us bombshell that was to us.
[54:29] Speaker 1: The natural thing to do would have been to go
[54:31] Speaker 1: to Bromwin's brother and sister in law, of course, but
[54:35] Speaker 1: he went to his ex wife's home.
[54:38] Speaker 34: Her mother in law was down visiting. She had no
[54:41] Speaker 34: idea who this random bloke was.
[54:43] Speaker 1: Is it possible that he did that because he thought
[54:46] Speaker 1: you'd already taken sides Bromwin's side, and it was all
[54:49] Speaker 1: a bit sticky in the separation.
[54:52] Speaker 34: Who knows what goes on in John's head. If you're
[54:55] Speaker 34: going to bring some two little girls and a little
[54:59] Speaker 34: dog down to Sydney for two weeks, you wouldn't take them.
[55:03] Speaker 21: Anywhere and leave them.
[55:04] Speaker 34: With anyone except people who they know and trust, their.
[55:11] Speaker 1: Uncle and Nardi like.
[55:14] Speaker 34: And to find that out later, what was he doing?
[55:18] Speaker 21: Well? Why did he need to do that?
[55:20] Speaker 34: Why would you do that?
[55:23] Speaker 1: But before John went to his ex wife's house, he
[55:27] Speaker 1: stopped in at a Sydney hair salon where his daughter
[55:30] Speaker 1: Jody worked. Jody remembers that her father arrived there about
[55:35] Speaker 1: mid morning.
[55:37] Speaker 11: I rushed out the front and hugged and kissed both
[55:39] Speaker 11: the girls. I asked Ad what was happening, and he
[55:42] Speaker 11: told me that Bronwin had had enough and she'd gone
[55:44] Speaker 11: away for a holiday for two weeks. He said that
[55:47] Speaker 11: she went to the bedroom and made a telephone call
[55:49] Speaker 11: and that she took a small amount of clothes. He
[55:52] Speaker 11: then told me that he heard a car pull up
[55:54] Speaker 11: and leave, and that he was sitting on the lounge
[55:56] Speaker 11: and didn't get.
[55:57] Speaker 35: Up to see who'd picked her up. Dad appeared to
[55:59] Speaker 35: be happy.
[56:00] Speaker 11: Because he had the kids and he hadn't seen them
[56:02] Speaker 11: for so long. He is definite that one day she
[56:05] Speaker 11: will turn up on the front doorstep and attempt to
[56:08] Speaker 11: take Crystal and Lauren. He's positive that she's still alive
[56:11] Speaker 11: somewhere and will suddenly reappear.
[56:15] Speaker 1: All these years later. We do not know exactly what
[56:18] Speaker 1: John was doing. Over a crucial period of about five hours,
[56:23] Speaker 1: he went to the marital home of his first wife, Jenny.
[56:28] Speaker 1: She had married a man called Brad Mason. As you've
[56:32] Speaker 1: already heard, John left the children. Let's say it was
[56:35] Speaker 1: around ten thirty am in nineteen ninety eight. The Ballona
[56:40] Speaker 1: detective Sergeant Glenn Taylor found Jenny and he took a
[56:44] Speaker 1: detailed statement from her. The statement discloses that John's first wife, Jenny,
[56:50] Speaker 1: and John's third wife Bromwyn became friendly acquaintances. These are
[56:56] Speaker 1: Jenny's words, it's not her voice.
[57:00] Speaker 36: I brom When after John started going out with her.
[57:02] Speaker 36: As my daughter Jodi was leaving with them, I then
[57:05] Speaker 36: became friendly with Bromwin. Bromwhin and I made a pack
[57:08] Speaker 36: that we wouldn't discuss personal things about John.
[57:11] Speaker 1: We didn't think it was appropriate to talk about it.
[57:14] Speaker 36: Bromwhen and John seemed quite happy, and by that time
[57:17] Speaker 36: I was married to my second husband.
[57:19] Speaker 6: I've got a photograph.
[57:21] Speaker 36: At home when me and my husband Brad visited Bromwin
[57:23] Speaker 36: and John at their new home at Lennox head. The
[57:26] Speaker 36: photograph's been marked on the back March nineteen ninety one.
[57:31] Speaker 36: I'd say that we only stayed at the house for
[57:33] Speaker 36: about half an hour. I remember having a joke with
[57:36] Speaker 36: Bromwin saying something like, so, this is the house that
[57:39] Speaker 36: I could have had, Ain't you a lucky girl? Bromwin
[57:43] Speaker 36: just looked at me with a sad look and shook
[57:45] Speaker 36: her head and said no. Then John and Brad walked
[57:49] Speaker 36: into the room, and that was the end of the conversation.
[57:52] Speaker 36: I think Bromwin would have liked to talk about something
[57:54] Speaker 36: that was troubling her, but she never had the opportunity
[57:57] Speaker 36: to speak. The next thing I remember about Bromwin was
[58:01] Speaker 36: I came home one day from shopping in nineteen ninety
[58:04] Speaker 36: three and my mother in law, Brad's mother, said, you've
[58:08] Speaker 36: got two visitors out in the backyard. I looked out
[58:11] Speaker 36: the back and I saw it was Crystal and Lauren
[58:14] Speaker 36: Bromwin's children. Both of the children were dressed in pajamas.
[58:19] Speaker 36: I said to my mother in law, Joan Mason, what
[58:22] Speaker 36: are they doing here? Joan told me that John Winfield
[58:25] Speaker 36: had turned up about an hour earlier and asked if
[58:28] Speaker 36: he could leave the kids at my house. I asked
[58:31] Speaker 36: Jane if he'd said how long he wanted me to
[58:33] Speaker 36: look after the kids for, but she said he didn't say.
[58:37] Speaker 36: There were no clothes for the children that John brought.
[58:40] Speaker 36: It was about an hour after that when John arrived.
[58:43] Speaker 36: I said to him something like, what's going on? John said,
[58:47] Speaker 36: I've got a big job on and nobody to look
[58:49] Speaker 36: after the kids. Can you look after them for about
[58:52] Speaker 36: two weeks? I'll pay you. I said, where's Bromwin. John said,
[58:58] Speaker 36: she's gone off with a boyfriend. I said, I can't
[59:02] Speaker 36: look after them, You'll have to find someone else. I'm
[59:04] Speaker 36: in the process of packing and moving at that stage.
[59:08] Speaker 36: I was splitting up from my second husband and moving
[59:10] Speaker 36: to Queensland. John said, oh no, I didn't think that
[59:14] Speaker 36: would happen to you. I'm sorry to hear the news.
[59:17] Speaker 36: And then after that, John just took the kids and
[59:19] Speaker 36: left the house. He didn't say what he intended to
[59:22] Speaker 36: do with the kids.
[59:24] Speaker 1: Jenny recalled that her ex husband John asked her if
[59:28] Speaker 1: she had any spare clothes for the girls, but Jenny
[59:31] Speaker 1: couldn't remember whether she gave him any.
[59:34] Speaker 36: I remember thinking at the time it was strange he
[59:36] Speaker 36: hadn't brought any clothing for the children. It wasn't his
[59:39] Speaker 36: normal character. He usually liked to be organized. I found
[59:44] Speaker 36: out later through Jody that Bromwin had gone missing from
[59:47] Speaker 36: Lennox Head. I found out later that she'd gone missing
[59:50] Speaker 36: the night before John had turned up at my house
[59:53] Speaker 36: with the two children. I don't feel that Bromin would
[59:56] Speaker 36: ever have left those children permanently. He was a very
[1:00:00] Speaker 36: dedicated mum and loved her children very much. I think
[1:00:05] Speaker 36: something might have happened on the night before John turned
[1:00:07] Speaker 36: up with the kids at my house in nineteen ninety three.
[1:00:11] Speaker 36: I think John's the type who could lose his cool.
[1:00:14] Speaker 36: He was under a great deal of stress at that time.
[1:00:17] Speaker 36: I feel Bromin may be dead and somehow met with
[1:00:20] Speaker 36: foul play.
[1:00:22] Speaker 1: Jenny's full statement to police in nineteen ninety eight is poignant.
[1:00:28] Speaker 1: It recalls some sad parts of her own life with John.
[1:00:32] Speaker 1: In a later episode, you'll hear more of Jenny's evidence.
[1:00:36] Speaker 1: She paints a sad picture of a deeply troubled marriage.
[1:00:42] Speaker 1: And you came home about an hour later at five pm.
[1:00:46] Speaker 8: Yes, seeing the old white falcon at the end of
[1:00:49] Speaker 8: the street, I thought, wow, the kids and Ron might
[1:00:54] Speaker 8: be a day.
[1:00:54] Speaker 5: And then I saw John sitting on the front veranda
[1:00:56] Speaker 5: talking to Michelle.
[1:00:58] Speaker 17: Walk down to the front for Andrew and said what's
[1:01:01] Speaker 17: going on? And he said, oh, Roman had a chance
[1:01:04] Speaker 17: to go.
[1:01:04] Speaker 1: Away and clear her head for a few days. So
[1:01:08] Speaker 1: I brought the kids down to Sydney.
[1:01:10] Speaker 8: I thought it was strange straight away.
[1:01:14] Speaker 1: You've described yourself as just a naturally suspicious person. Romwin's
[1:01:19] Speaker 1: told you if anything happens to me, look after Crystal please.
[1:01:24] Speaker 1: Suddenly he's turned up in the vehicle she had been
[1:01:28] Speaker 1: driving with the kids, and they've packed hastily. What were
[1:01:33] Speaker 1: you thinking then about where Romwin was?
[1:01:41] Speaker 34: Well, I suppose to give him the benefit of the doubt.
[1:01:49] Speaker 34: I do recall thinking, well, she'd been out of the
[1:01:53] Speaker 34: house on her own with the kids for about six weeks.
[1:01:57] Speaker 34: I was thinking, that's twenty four with the kids, trying
[1:02:02] Speaker 34: to work get a bit of money. Possibly she did
[1:02:09] Speaker 34: need a break.
[1:02:10] Speaker 35: Possibly.
[1:02:12] Speaker 1: Michelle Reid says that on Monday afternoon she asked John, well, what.
[1:02:17] Speaker 6: Have you been doing?
[1:02:19] Speaker 21: Where have you been?
[1:02:20] Speaker 34: He said, I had to go and get a green
[1:02:21] Speaker 34: slip and a pink slip and register the car and
[1:02:23] Speaker 34: do all that, which accounted for the time during the day,
[1:02:27] Speaker 34: which is why he turned up here at four o'clock,
[1:02:30] Speaker 34: because he'd been doing.
[1:02:31] Speaker 1: Things reregistering the family car that he had driven from
[1:02:36] Speaker 1: Lennox Head the night before with two girls and a puppy.
[1:02:40] Speaker 1: Back in Lenox. The neighbors, Murray and Debbie, were wondering
[1:02:44] Speaker 1: what was going on. At what point do you believe
[1:02:48] Speaker 1: you became suspicious?
[1:02:51] Speaker 2: I said something really weird. I said, Larrens cars missinging.
[1:02:55] Speaker 2: You know, where would she be this summer? The day
[1:02:57] Speaker 2: she would park there all the time. They wouldn't park
[1:02:59] Speaker 2: in the garage, and I just thought it was odd
[1:03:01] Speaker 2: that the car wasn't there.
[1:03:03] Speaker 3: Dead come and saw me six o'clock on Monday morning.
[1:03:07] Speaker 3: It said the car has gone next door. And then
[1:03:10] Speaker 3: I said to Dead, yeah, I heard the cargo last night.
[1:03:13] Speaker 3: Did you see it or yeah?
[1:03:15] Speaker 7: I saw it?
[1:03:16] Speaker 3: Yeah, And I thought, oh, this is sus. So I
[1:03:20] Speaker 3: waited until about eight o'clock. There was no kids, no nothing,
[1:03:25] Speaker 3: and no Roman, no car. I thought, this is too.
[1:03:27] Speaker 1: Sus And when you say sas you mean it was
[1:03:32] Speaker 1: really suspicious. It was strange.
[1:03:34] Speaker 7: That was a bit suspicious.
[1:03:36] Speaker 1: Yeah, as early as Monday.
[1:03:37] Speaker 7: As as Monday yes.
[1:03:38] Speaker 3: Well, when I saw the car go in the nighttime
[1:03:42] Speaker 3: eleven or twenty eleven at night, I thought that was
[1:03:46] Speaker 3: sus So then I past seven.
[1:03:49] Speaker 7: Eight o'clock, this is in the morning. Yes, on the
[1:03:51] Speaker 7: Monday morning, Monday morning, I walked up.
[1:03:53] Speaker 37: To the neighbor on top of John's place, Lloyd and
[1:03:57] Speaker 37: Chris Harday, Yeah, And I went to Lloyd and locked
[1:04:02] Speaker 37: his door and said, book, I think John's come back
[1:04:05] Speaker 37: last night and done something to Bromwin.
[1:04:07] Speaker 7: Do you mind coming down to the house and having
[1:04:10] Speaker 7: them look at the house with me? But he didn't
[1:04:12] Speaker 7: break in there, and did you no? Okay?
[1:04:14] Speaker 3: Me and Lloyd just walked around the house and then
[1:04:19] Speaker 3: we said, oh, yes, it's us, and then Lloyd went
[1:04:22] Speaker 3: in and I came back here.
[1:04:23] Speaker 2: When I came home on the Monday afternoon, I said
[1:04:26] Speaker 2: to my children, was Lauren and Crystal at the school today?
[1:04:30] Speaker 7: And they said no, Monday weren't.
[1:04:32] Speaker 2: And then on the Tuesday I went to work and
[1:04:35] Speaker 2: I do recall ringing the unit because she had a
[1:04:38] Speaker 2: phone down there, and I think I might have rung
[1:04:41] Speaker 2: the house to see if I could find.
[1:04:43] Speaker 1: It deb telephone a mutual friend, probably Denise Barnard.
[1:04:49] Speaker 2: I can't remember exactly who it was, but I rang
[1:04:52] Speaker 2: them instead of you. Anyone's seen everyone know where Bromin
[1:04:55] Speaker 2: might be.
[1:04:56] Speaker 8: No, no, no, Yet by about seven thirty at night,
[1:05:00] Speaker 8: I'd forced John to ring Murray and Devi next door
[1:05:05] Speaker 8: to break into the house to.
[1:05:07] Speaker 1: Look into the house to see.
[1:05:08] Speaker 5: What was going on and whether Brahman was there.
[1:05:11] Speaker 1: Did you suspect foul play that night?
[1:05:15] Speaker 38: That came later because further into that conversation between five
[1:05:20] Speaker 38: o'clock and seven o'clock, when we sort of forced him
[1:05:22] Speaker 38: to get someone to break into the house to check
[1:05:24] Speaker 38: it out, he was saying, now I should be back
[1:05:27] Speaker 38: by Wednesday, Chris, she's got a shift at the takeaway shop.
[1:05:31] Speaker 2: On the Tuesday, I came home after work. John had
[1:05:34] Speaker 2: rung Murray, so.
[1:05:35] Speaker 7: I've got the court.
[1:05:37] Speaker 3: He said, would you mind going up the house? Would
[1:05:39] Speaker 3: you mind going up the house and breaking in for me?
[1:05:41] Speaker 3: This was a class panel next to the back door.
[1:05:43] Speaker 3: He said, put your handy open the door and get in.
[1:05:46] Speaker 3: And I said that's fair enough, and I'll do that.
[1:05:49] Speaker 3: He said, oh yeah, because I've been trying to ring
[1:05:51] Speaker 3: Braman and now I want you to have to look
[1:05:52] Speaker 3: to see the probins there. Because I've been ringing I'm
[1:05:55] Speaker 3: getting no answer. John said to me, I'll ring you
[1:05:58] Speaker 3: back in twenty minutes, so I'm suss again.
[1:06:02] Speaker 1: Murray went back to see the retired neighbor, Lloyd Hargrave.
[1:06:07] Speaker 3: And I said, mate, I said, he's rung me up.
[1:06:09] Speaker 3: He wants to be a break into the house. I'm
[1:06:11] Speaker 3: not too sure why he wants be a break into
[1:06:13] Speaker 3: the house. He's only read me back. We broke into
[1:06:15] Speaker 3: the house and we walked around the house and had
[1:06:18] Speaker 3: a look, and then John rang back in twenty minutes
[1:06:23] Speaker 3: and he said it was probleman in the house. I said, no,
[1:06:26] Speaker 3: she wasn't, John, No, she's not there, and no one said.
[1:06:28] Speaker 3: He said, well, can you go up and put the
[1:06:30] Speaker 3: phone back on the hook please? So I went back
[1:06:34] Speaker 3: up there and put the phone back on the hook,
[1:06:37] Speaker 3: and they'd come up with me after that.
[1:06:39] Speaker 22: Yeah.
[1:06:40] Speaker 2: When I got home from work, Murray told me what
[1:06:42] Speaker 2: had happened, and I've gone, well, I want to go
[1:06:45] Speaker 2: up and have a look.
[1:06:46] Speaker 7: Something not right here.
[1:06:48] Speaker 2: My normal brain's thinking, no, he wouldn't do anything to her,
[1:06:51] Speaker 2: But my other half of my brain's going, yes, he would.
[1:06:54] Speaker 6: You know.
[1:06:54] Speaker 2: That's the sort of thing I was a bit conflicted with,
[1:06:56] Speaker 2: and I just wanted to go and have a look
[1:06:58] Speaker 2: and just.
[1:06:59] Speaker 1: See all I could see.
[1:07:01] Speaker 2: The house was disheveled because she was still moving back in,
[1:07:04] Speaker 2: so she had boxes and everything still unpacking boxes. She'd
[1:07:08] Speaker 2: had dinner on a Sunday night. There was plates in
[1:07:10] Speaker 2: the sink with scraps on them. I looked in the
[1:07:13] Speaker 2: washing machine. There was wet washing in the washing machine,
[1:07:15] Speaker 2: like clothes. I hung the washing out.
[1:07:18] Speaker 1: Do you recall what was in the washing machine? What
[1:07:21] Speaker 1: you hung out?
[1:07:21] Speaker 7: Yeah?
[1:07:22] Speaker 5: Kids?
[1:07:22] Speaker 7: All the kids stuff?
[1:07:23] Speaker 1: Yeah, well kids closed.
[1:07:25] Speaker 2: So then we went into the bedroom and it was
[1:07:27] Speaker 2: at the front of the house, and I'm looking to
[1:07:30] Speaker 2: see what she talk. She didn't take twelve trees, she
[1:07:33] Speaker 2: didn't take a makeup. I'm looking around. She hasn't taken
[1:07:37] Speaker 2: any of this. Why would she do on a holiday
[1:07:38] Speaker 2: with that all this stuff? I'm thinking, this is weird.
[1:07:41] Speaker 2: The bed was unmade, she took nothing. Appadly, the only
[1:07:44] Speaker 2: thing that I could see that was missing was her handbag.
[1:07:49] Speaker 7: I couldn't find a handbag.
[1:07:51] Speaker 39: I'm a woman, and if I'm going on a maybe
[1:07:54] Speaker 39: even if it was an impromptu holiday, I would still
[1:07:57] Speaker 39: pack some essential items, but there was nothing.
[1:08:01] Speaker 2: It was all still there, her makeup was there, everything.
[1:08:04] Speaker 2: I thought, I'm not buying.
[1:08:06] Speaker 1: This is her daughter?
[1:08:09] Speaker 21: Mail again and I answered the phone and he asked
[1:08:14] Speaker 21: to speak with Dad. I said, I'll put him on
[1:08:18] Speaker 21: And then night's when I went to the house with
[1:08:20] Speaker 21: Lloyd and my dad through the laundry. I remember thinking, Oh,
[1:08:24] Speaker 21: I'm coming up to see this house.
[1:08:25] Speaker 1: Why, I don't know.
[1:08:27] Speaker 21: I think it was strange.
[1:08:30] Speaker 1: Was it strange because you were so rarely in the house.
[1:08:33] Speaker 21: No, I think it was strange because I had a
[1:08:35] Speaker 21: feeling why I be going in there? Why Why did
[1:08:38] Speaker 21: he come up and then leave and then us going
[1:08:40] Speaker 21: to the house to see whether she's been back. What
[1:08:43] Speaker 21: I find is strange about the whole thing is jand
[1:08:46] Speaker 21: to come all the way up here, to have the
[1:08:50] Speaker 21: argument with Brown and then to leave that same night
[1:08:57] Speaker 21: in a hurry. Why don't you say next morning then
[1:09:01] Speaker 21: go back to Sydney. Why do we leave in such
[1:09:03] Speaker 21: a hurry?
[1:09:05] Speaker 1: And is that because you suspect flight urgent panic?
[1:09:10] Speaker 21: Yeah? I noticed the house, what it looked like, the
[1:09:14] Speaker 21: state that was left in.
[1:09:15] Speaker 1: What do you remember about that?
[1:09:17] Speaker 6: There was the.
[1:09:17] Speaker 21: Washing in the laundry, the dishes. The girl's beds were stripped.
[1:09:22] Speaker 1: The girl's beds were stripped, There.
[1:09:23] Speaker 21: Was no sheets in the bed they were gone.
[1:09:27] Speaker 1: Mel's disclosure about the sheets being stripped from the children's
[1:09:31] Speaker 1: beds was a surprise to me. I did not recall
[1:09:35] Speaker 1: that anyone else had raised it before, and I couldn't
[1:09:39] Speaker 1: remember reading it in any of the hundreds of pages
[1:09:42] Speaker 1: of evidence and witness statements and other documents. Perhaps the
[1:09:46] Speaker 1: reason Murray and deb did not raise it with police
[1:09:49] Speaker 1: was because they had not looked at the children's beds.
[1:09:53] Speaker 21: I mean, I had been in the house and it
[1:09:55] Speaker 21: was very neat, like oct needs. So to leave the
[1:09:59] Speaker 21: house in the state that was that was what was
[1:10:02] Speaker 21: so strange about the whole thing.
[1:10:04] Speaker 1: And is it your view that John, under normal circumstances
[1:10:09] Speaker 1: couldn't have walked out of his house if it was
[1:10:11] Speaker 1: in that state.
[1:10:11] Speaker 21: No way, he wouldn't have. No, no, not the way
[1:10:16] Speaker 21: he was as a person.
[1:10:19] Speaker 1: Dear Van Murray walked back to their house, shaking their
[1:10:22] Speaker 1: heads at the turn of events. They spoke on the
[1:10:25] Speaker 1: telephone soon afterwards to Bromman's brother Andy, who had called
[1:10:30] Speaker 1: from Sydney.
[1:10:31] Speaker 2: That's when he said John's down here in Sydney with
[1:10:35] Speaker 2: the girls. And he tells me Bromin's gone on some
[1:10:37] Speaker 2: holiday And I said, what when did he?
[1:10:40] Speaker 7: How did the girls get to Sydney.
[1:10:42] Speaker 2: That was the first we knew that they were with
[1:10:43] Speaker 2: him in Sydney.
[1:10:45] Speaker 1: Did Andrew sound incredulous to you?
[1:10:47] Speaker 15: Yeah?
[1:10:48] Speaker 2: Yeah, he was concerned for sure, and so was I.
[1:10:51] Speaker 2: That John's starting to hyperventilated, be thinking this couldn't happen.
[1:10:55] Speaker 2: This is not happening, you know that sort of disbelieved
[1:10:57] Speaker 2: that this is going on, And in my quiet mind
[1:11:00] Speaker 2: I'm thinking he's not.
[1:11:03] Speaker 7: Well, no, he hasn't, No, surely not.
[1:11:19] Speaker 1: Bronwyn is written and investigated by me Headley Thomas as
[1:11:23] Speaker 1: a podcast production for The Australian. If anyone has information
[1:11:28] Speaker 1: which may help solve this cold case, please contact me
[1:11:32] Speaker 1: confidentially by emailing Bronwyn at the Australian dot com dot au.
[1:11:39] Speaker 1: You can read more about this case and see a
[1:11:42] Speaker 1: range of photographs and other artwork at the website Bronwyn
[1:11:46] Speaker 1: podcast dot com. Our subscribers and registered users here episodes first.
[1:11:53] Speaker 1: The production and editorial team for Bromwin includes Claire Harvey,
[1:11:58] Speaker 1: Kristin Amiot, Josh Bridget, Ryan Bianca far Marcus, Katie Burns,
[1:12:04] Speaker 1: Liam Mendez, Sean Callen, and Matthew Condon and David Murray.
[1:12:09] Speaker 1: Audio production for this podcast series is by Wasabi Audio
[1:12:13] Speaker 1: and original theme music by Slade Gibson. We have been
[1:12:18] Speaker 1: assisted by Madison Walsh, a relation of Bromwin Winfield. We
[1:12:22] Speaker 1: can only do this kind of journalism with the support
[1:12:25] Speaker 1: of our subscribers and our major sponsors like Harvey Norman.
[1:12:30] Speaker 1: For all of our exclusive stories, videos, maps, timelines and
[1:12:34] Speaker 1: documents about this podcast and other podcasts, including The Teacher's Pet,
[1:12:39] Speaker 1: The Teachers Trial, The Teacher's Accuser, Shandy's Story, Shandy's Legacy,
[1:12:44] Speaker 1: and The Night Driver, go to the Australian dot Com
[1:12:48] Speaker 1: dot au and the subscribe

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