# The Glaucomfleckens: The Best in Medical Comedy

An episode of [Ground Truths](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1728526108), 16 Nov 2024, 35 min.

Audio: https://api.substack.com/feed/podcast/151744300/58aa4e6bfc3e4ca0e2041a05d60ecf49.mp3

Below is a brief video snippet from our conversation. Full videos of all Ground Truths podcasts can be seen on YouTube here. The current one is here. If you like the YouTube format, please subscribe! This one has embedded one of my favorite TikTok’s from Will. There are several links to others in the transcript. The audios are also available on Apple and Spotify. Transcript with links to both audio and videos, commencement addresses, NEJM article coverage Eric Topol (00:06): Hi, it's Eric Topol from Ground Truths, and I've got an amazing couple with me today. It's Will Flanary and Kristin Flanary, the Glaucomfleckens. I've had the chance to get to know them a bit through Knock Knock, Hi! which is their podcast. And of course, everyone knows Dr. Glaucomflecken from his TikTok world and his other about 4 million followers on Instagram and Twitter and all these other social media, and YouTube. So welcome. Will Flanary (00:43): Thanks for having us. Kristin Flanary (00:44): Thank you. Happy to be here. By Way of Background Eric Topol (00:45): Yeah. Well, this is going to be fun because I'm going to go a quick background so we can go fast forward because we did an interview back in early 2022. Kristin Flanary (00:56): Yes. Eric Topol (00:57): And what you've been doing since then is rocking it. You're like a meteoric, right. And it was predictable, like rarefied talent and who couldn't love humor, medical humor, but by way of background, just for those who are not up to speed. I guess you got your start, Will, as a class clown when your mother was a teacher in the sixth grade. Will Flanary (01:22): Yep, yep. I misbehaved a little bit. It helped that I still made good grades, but I cut up a bit in class. Eric Topol (01:32): And then you were already in the comedy club circuits doing standup in Houston as an 18-year-old. Will Flanary (01:40): It was all amateur stuff, nothing, just dabble in it and trying to get better. I was always kind of naturally funny just with my friend group and everything. I loved making people laugh, but doing standups is a whole different ball game. And so, I started doing that around Houston as a high school senior and kept that going through college and a little bit into med school. Kristin Flanary (02:02): Houston was a good training ground, right? That where Harris Wittels was also coming up. Will Flanary (02:07): Yeah. A lot of famous comedians have come through Houston. Even going back to Bill Hicks back in the, was that the 80s, I think? Or 90s? Eric Topol (02:17): Well, and then of course, it was I think in 2020 when you launched Dr. Glaucomflecken, I think. Is that right? Will Flanary (02:28): That's when it really started to take off. I was on Twitter telling jokes back in 2016. Kristin Flanary (02:39): GomerBlog before that, that's actually where it was born. Will Flanary (02:41): I was doing satire writing. I basically do what I'm doing now, but in article form, trying to be The Onion of medicine. And then the pandemic hit, started doing video content and that's really with lockdown. That's when, because everybody was on social media, nobody had anything else to do. So it was right place, right time for me and branching out into video content. On to Medical School Commencement Addresses Eric Topol (03:11): Alright, so that's the background of some incredible foundation for humor. But since we last got together, I'll link the Medicine and the Machine interview we did back then. What has been happening with you two is nothing short of incredible. I saw your graduation speeches, Will. Yale in 2022, I watched the UCSF in 2023 and then the University of Michigan in 2024. Maybe there's other ones I don't even know. Kristin Flanary (03:45): There’s a few others. Will Flanary (03:45): There's a few. But I feel like you've done, I'm sure your fair share of commencement addresses as well. It's kind of hard to come up with different ways to be inspirational to the…

## Transcript

[0:06] SPEAKER_02: Hi, it's Eric Topol from Ground Truths, and I've got an amazing couple with me today.
[0:11] SPEAKER_02: It's Will Flannery and Kristen Flannery, the Glocken Flackens.
[0:18] SPEAKER_03: You get it.
[0:19] SPEAKER_02: I've had the chance to get to know them a bit through Knock Knock High, which is their podcast.
[0:26] SPEAKER_02: And of course, everyone knows
[0:29] SPEAKER_02: Dr.
[0:29] SPEAKER_02: Glockenflaken from his TikTok world and his other about 4 million followers on
[0:37] SPEAKER_02: Instagram and Twitter and all these other social media and YouTube.
[0:41] SPEAKER_02: So welcome.
[0:43] SPEAKER_03: Thanks.
[0:43] SPEAKER_03: Thanks for having us.
[0:44] SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
[0:44] SPEAKER_01: Happy to be here.
[0:45] SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
[0:46] SPEAKER_02: This is going to be fun because I'm going to kind of go a quick background so we
[0:50] SPEAKER_02: can go fast forward because we did an interview back in early 22.
[0:55] SPEAKER_02: Yes.
[0:57] SPEAKER_02: And what you've been doing since then is like rocking it.
[1:00] SPEAKER_02: You're like a meteoric, right?
[1:01] SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
[1:02] SPEAKER_02: And it was predictable because it's like rarefied talent and who couldn't love humor, medical humor.
[1:09] SPEAKER_02: But by way of background,
[1:11] SPEAKER_02: just for those who are not up to speed,
[1:14] SPEAKER_02: I guess you got your start,
[1:16] SPEAKER_02: Will,
[1:17] SPEAKER_02: as a class clown when your mother was a teacher in the sixth grade.
[1:22] SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I misbehaved a little bit.
[1:25] SPEAKER_03: It helped that I still made good grades, but I cut up a bit in class.
[1:31] SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
[1:32] SPEAKER_02: And then you were already in the comedy club circuits doing stand-up in Houston as an 18-year-old.
[1:39] SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it was all amateur stuff, nothing, just dabbling in it and trying to get better.
[1:45] SPEAKER_03: I was always kind of naturally funny just with my friend group and everything.
[1:49] SPEAKER_03: I love making people laugh.
[1:51] SPEAKER_03: But doing stand-up is a whole different ballgame.
[1:54] SPEAKER_03: And so I started doing that around Houston,
[1:56] SPEAKER_03: yeah,
[1:57] SPEAKER_03: as a high school senior and kept that going through college and a little bit into
[2:01] SPEAKER_03: med school.
[2:01] SPEAKER_01: Houston was a good training ground, right?
[2:03] SPEAKER_01: Because isn't that where Harris Whittles was also coming up?
[2:06] SPEAKER_03: Oh, there's lots of, yeah, a lot of famous comedians have come through Houston.
[2:10] SPEAKER_03: So I've been going back to Bill Hicks back in the, what was that, the 80s, I think, or 90s.
[2:17] SPEAKER_02: Well,
[2:18] SPEAKER_02: and then,
[2:18] SPEAKER_02: of course,
[2:20] SPEAKER_02: it was,
[2:20] SPEAKER_02: I think,
[2:21] SPEAKER_02: in 2020 when you launched Dr.
[2:24] SPEAKER_02: Glock and Fleck,
[2:25] SPEAKER_02: and I think,
[2:26] SPEAKER_02: is that right?
[2:28] SPEAKER_03: That's when it really started to take off.
[2:31] SPEAKER_03: You know, I was on Twitter telling jokes back in 2016.
[2:35] SPEAKER_03: The Gomer blog before that, that's actually where it was born.
[2:41] SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I was doing like satire writing.
[2:43] SPEAKER_03: I basically do what I'm doing now, but in like article form, trying to be the onion of medicine.
[2:50] SPEAKER_03: And then the pandemic hit, started doing video content.
[2:54] SPEAKER_03: And that's really, you know, with lockdown, that's when, because everybody was on social media, right?
[3:01] SPEAKER_03: Everybody was, nobody had anything else to do.
[3:03] SPEAKER_03: So it was a right place, right time for me and branching out into video content.
[3:11] SPEAKER_02: All right.
[3:11] SPEAKER_02: So that's the background of some incredible foundation for humor.
[3:16] SPEAKER_02: But since we last got together, well, I'll link their medicine machine interview we did back then.
[3:24] SPEAKER_02: What has been happening with you two is nothing short of incredible.
[3:28] SPEAKER_02: So I saw your graduation speeches.
[3:32] SPEAKER_02: Well, Yale 2022.
[3:33] SPEAKER_02: I watched the UCSF in 2023.
[3:39] SPEAKER_02: And then the Michigan one in 2024, maybe there's other ones.
[3:43] SPEAKER_02: I don't even know.
[3:44] SPEAKER_00: There's a few others.
[3:45] SPEAKER_03: There's a few,
[3:47] SPEAKER_03: but I feel like,
[3:48] SPEAKER_03: I mean,
[3:49] SPEAKER_03: you've done,
[3:49] SPEAKER_03: I'm sure you're a fair share of commencement addresses as well.
[3:52] SPEAKER_03: It's kind of hard to come up with different ways to be inspirational to the next generation.
[3:59] SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
[4:00] SPEAKER_03: Fortunately,
[4:01] SPEAKER_03: together we have some life experiences and learned a thing or two by doing all of
[4:08] SPEAKER_03: this social media stuff and just the things we've been through that I guess I have
[4:14] SPEAKER_03: enough things to say to entertain a podcast.
[4:17] SPEAKER_02: Well,
[4:18] SPEAKER_02: they're being humble as usual,
[4:19] SPEAKER_02: but having watched those commencement addresses,
[4:22] SPEAKER_02: they were the best medical commencement addresses I've ever seen.
[4:25] SPEAKER_02: And even though you might have told us some of the same jokes, they were so great that it was all right.
[4:33] SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
[4:33] SPEAKER_02: And you know what about it is you've got these not the students,
[4:37] SPEAKER_02: they all love you,
[4:38] SPEAKER_02: of course,
[4:39] SPEAKER_02: because they're probably addicted to when's your when's your next video going to
[4:42] SPEAKER_02: get posted.
[4:43] SPEAKER_02: But, you know, even the old professors, you know, all the family members, you know, it's great.
[4:49] SPEAKER_02: But one of the things I wanted to get at,
[4:51] SPEAKER_02: well,
[4:52] SPEAKER_02: I'll start with the the graduation speeches because you were such an inspiration,
[4:57] SPEAKER_02: not just with humor,
[4:58] SPEAKER_02: but your message.
[4:59] SPEAKER_02: And this gets back to you as a couple and the tragedies you've been through.
[5:05] SPEAKER_02: So you really, I think, got into this co-survivor story.
[5:10] SPEAKER_02: And maybe,
[5:12] SPEAKER_02: Kristen,
[5:12] SPEAKER_02: since you are the co-survivor of two bouts of Will's testicular cancer and then the
[5:19] SPEAKER_02: sudden cardiac death,
[5:20] SPEAKER_02: maybe,
[5:21] SPEAKER_02: I mean,
[5:21] SPEAKER_02: people don't talk about this much.
[5:23] SPEAKER_02: So maybe you could help enlighten us.
[5:26] SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
[5:28] SPEAKER_01: It's funny because the experience of being a co-survivor is nothing new.
[5:33] SPEAKER_01: As long as we've had human beings, we've had co-survivors.
[5:36] SPEAKER_01: But the concept around it and giving it a name and a label,
[5:42] SPEAKER_01: a framework to be able to think about it,
[5:44] SPEAKER_01: that is what I think is new and what people haven't talked about before.
[5:48] SPEAKER_01: So co-survivor is just this idea that when a medical trauma happens to a patient,
[5:56] SPEAKER_01: The patient has their experience and,
[5:59] SPEAKER_01: you know,
[5:59] SPEAKER_01: if they survive it,
[6:01] SPEAKER_01: they are a survivor and they have a survivor experience.
[6:05] SPEAKER_01: And also,
[6:06] SPEAKER_01: if,
[6:06] SPEAKER_01: you know,
[6:07] SPEAKER_01: most people are closely attached to at least one other person,
[6:11] SPEAKER_01: if not many,
[6:13] SPEAKER_01: and those people...
[6:16] SPEAKER_01: are co-surviving the medical event along with the survivor you know that event is
[6:23] SPEAKER_01: happening in in their lives as was happening to them too right if someone comes in
[6:28] SPEAKER_01: with a patient to the hospital that person you know just you can just assume by
[6:33] SPEAKER_01: default that their lives are are pretty intimately or profoundly intertwined or
[6:37] SPEAKER_01: else why would that person be there
[6:40] SPEAKER_01: And so thinking of it as there's the patient and then there's also kind of a co-patient,
[6:45] SPEAKER_01: right,
[6:45] SPEAKER_01: that family members in the past have only been thought of as like caregivers if
[6:50] SPEAKER_01: they've been thought of at all.
[6:51] SPEAKER_01: And that is certainly one aspect of the role.
[6:53] SPEAKER_01: But it's important to remember that whatever it is that's happening to the patient
[6:57] SPEAKER_01: is also affecting the family members lives in a really deep and profound way.
[7:04] SPEAKER_02: That's that's really helpful.
[7:05] SPEAKER_02: Now, the fact that you recognize that in your graduation speech, Will, I think is somewhat unique.
[7:13] SPEAKER_02: And of course,
[7:13] SPEAKER_02: some of the other things that you touched on,
[7:16] SPEAKER_02: like,
[7:16] SPEAKER_02: you know,
[7:17] SPEAKER_02: playing to your creativity and the human factors.
[7:20] SPEAKER_02: I mean, these are so important messages.
[7:23] SPEAKER_03: Well,
[7:23] SPEAKER_03: I have to,
[7:24] SPEAKER_03: you know,
[7:24] SPEAKER_03: in the discussion about co-survivorship and when,
[7:27] SPEAKER_03: because I do,
[7:28] SPEAKER_03: I talk about that whenever I do my keynotes and when I do the,
[7:31] SPEAKER_03: like the commencement addresses,
[7:33] SPEAKER_03: but all credit goes to Kristen for,
[7:36] SPEAKER_03: for really being the driving force of this idea for me and for many others,
[7:42] SPEAKER_03: because I,
[7:43] SPEAKER_03: You know, as a physician, you know, we take care of patients.
[7:47] SPEAKER_03: Our focus is always on the patient.
[7:48] SPEAKER_03: And it really wasn't until this happened to me and my family and Kristen in particular,
[7:54] SPEAKER_03: that I started to understand exactly what she's talking about and this idea.
[7:59] SPEAKER_03: And so,
[8:01] SPEAKER_03: you know,
[8:03] SPEAKER_03: Kristen gets a lot of credit for just really bringing that term and that idea to
[8:07] SPEAKER_03: the forefront.
[8:09] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well, you saved his life, which is a lot of credit.
[8:14] SPEAKER_02: And then the other thing I just want to mention,
[8:17] SPEAKER_02: you've been recognized by the American Heart Association and a whole bunch of other
[8:22] SPEAKER_02: organizations awarded because of your advocacy for CPR.
[8:27] SPEAKER_02: And you even mentioned that, I think, in one of your commencement addresses about.
[8:31] SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I tried to get the crowd to do CPR, like a team up, you know, partner up.
[8:37] SPEAKER_03: And it just kind of fell flat.
[8:40] SPEAKER_03: Wasn't quite the right time, I think, to try to do a mass class on CPR.
[8:45] SPEAKER_03: So maybe next time.
[8:47] SPEAKER_02: Right.
[8:49] SPEAKER_02: Well,
[8:50] SPEAKER_02: so you had this foundation with the Glock and Fleck and General Hospital and taking
[8:56] SPEAKER_02: on 37 specialties and all these incredible people that became,
[9:01] SPEAKER_02: you know,
[9:03] SPEAKER_02: part of the family,
[9:04] SPEAKER_02: if you will,
[9:05] SPEAKER_02: of spoof on medicine and your alter ego.
[9:07] SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
[9:08] SPEAKER_02: And,
[9:09] SPEAKER_02: you know,
[9:09] SPEAKER_02: these videos that you would do,
[9:10] SPEAKER_02: sometimes you have three or four different alter egos in there playing out.
[9:16] SPEAKER_02: But now you've branched into new things.
[9:19] SPEAKER_02: So one, which is an outgrowth of what we were just talking about, you've been on this country tour.
[9:26] SPEAKER_02: Wife and death, right?
[9:28] SPEAKER_02: Yes.
[9:28] SPEAKER_01: Yes.
[9:29] SPEAKER_02: Wife and death.
[9:31] SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
[9:32] SPEAKER_02: I guess we can make the connect of how you named it that.
[9:34] SPEAKER_02: But what is it you've been selling out in cities all over the country?
[9:38] SPEAKER_02: And by the way, I'm really upset you haven't come to San Diego.
[9:41] SPEAKER_02: But I know life and death.
[9:44] SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
[9:45] SPEAKER_03: Well,
[9:45] SPEAKER_03: you know,
[9:45] SPEAKER_03: cause we,
[9:46] SPEAKER_03: we have this amazing story and all these medical challenges we've been through and
[9:51] SPEAKER_03: then developing this,
[9:52] SPEAKER_03: the glock and fleck and brand and universe.
[9:56] SPEAKER_03: And we've done keynotes together for years.
[10:01] SPEAKER_03: And then we thought, you know, let's,
[10:04] SPEAKER_03: Let's have more fun with it.
[10:05] SPEAKER_03: Let's do, you know, keynotes.
[10:06] SPEAKER_03: They're great.
[10:07] SPEAKER_03: Like we can get our message out, but you know, sometimes they're just a bit stuffy.
[10:12] SPEAKER_03: You know, it's, it's, you know, it's a, it's an academic environment.
[10:15] SPEAKER_01: And so they're usually at like seven in the morning.
[10:17] SPEAKER_01: So that's, you know, the downside.
[10:21] SPEAKER_03: So let's, we thought, you know, let's, let's just put together our own live show.
[10:25] SPEAKER_03: Let's put together something that like we could just creatively, we can do whatever we want with it.
[10:32] SPEAKER_03: I could dress up as characters.
[10:34] SPEAKER_03: Kristen can, who has this beautiful writing and monologues that she's put together around her experience.
[10:41] SPEAKER_03: And just to, to, to create something that people can come into a theater and,
[10:46] SPEAKER_03: And just experience this wide range of emotions from just laughter to tears of all kinds.
[10:55] SPEAKER_03: And just have them feel the story and enjoy the story.
[11:00] SPEAKER_03: And fortunately, it has a happy ending because I'm still alive.
[11:04] SPEAKER_03: um and it's it's just been it's been so much fun the audiences have been incredible
[11:09] SPEAKER_03: mostly health care but even some non-health care people show up yeah uh and uh i
[11:14] SPEAKER_03: just we've been blown away by the response we honestly we should have done bigger
[11:18] SPEAKER_03: theaters that's our lesson for the first go around i saw you had to do a second
[11:22] SPEAKER_01: show in pittsburgh we did yeah yeah that was sold out too they were something about
[11:28] SPEAKER_01: pittsburgh there were a lot of that was a good crowd and there was a lot of them
[11:33] SPEAKER_03: It was almost like in Pittsburgh,
[11:34] SPEAKER_03: they rarely ever get any internet comedian ophthalmologists that come through.
[11:38] SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
[11:41] SPEAKER_02: Well, I see you got some still to come in Denver and Chicago.
[11:45] SPEAKER_02: This is amazing.
[11:48] SPEAKER_02: And I wondered who was coming.
[11:50] SPEAKER_02: I mean...
[11:51] SPEAKER_02: It's not at all surprising that there'd be this phenomenal popularity.
[11:56] SPEAKER_02: And I just, you know, so that's one thing you've done that's new, which is amazing.
[12:01] SPEAKER_02: And of course, it's a multidimensional story.
[12:04] SPEAKER_02: The one that shocked me, I have to tell you, shocked me.
[12:08] SPEAKER_02: was the New England Journal partnership.
[12:10] SPEAKER_02: The New England Journal was the most stodgy, arrogant, I mean, so difficult.
[12:16] SPEAKER_02: And not only that- You said that, not us.
[12:19] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
[12:20] SPEAKER_02: They'll get this too.
[12:21] SPEAKER_02: They know we don't get along that well.
[12:23] SPEAKER_02: But that's okay.
[12:26] SPEAKER_02: You even made fun of journals.
[12:28] SPEAKER_02: You even made fun of them.
[12:30] SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
[12:30] SPEAKER_02: And now you're partnering with the New England Journal, God's greatest medical journal or whatever.
[12:36] SPEAKER_02: Tell us about that.
[12:37] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[12:39] SPEAKER_03: Well, so, you know, one thing that I really enjoy doing, and I've done it with my U.S.
[12:46] SPEAKER_03: healthcare system content, is almost like tricking people into learning things.
[12:53] SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
[12:54] SPEAKER_03: And so,
[12:55] SPEAKER_03: you know,
[12:56] SPEAKER_03: if you make something funny,
[12:57] SPEAKER_03: then people will actually sit there and listen to what you have to say about
[13:00] SPEAKER_03: deductibles and physician owned hospitals and private and all these like inner workings,
[13:06] SPEAKER_03: you know,
[13:06] SPEAKER_03: DIR fees and pharmacy,
[13:08] SPEAKER_03: all these things that are really dry topics.
[13:11] SPEAKER_03: But if you can make them funny, all of a sudden people will actually like learn and listen to it.
[13:15] SPEAKER_03: And the New England Journal of Medicine,
[13:17] SPEAKER_03: they approached me with an idea basically just to take one or two of their trials
[13:26] SPEAKER_03: per month and I just make a skit out of that trial with the idea being to help
[13:31] SPEAKER_03: disseminate some of the research findings that are out there because I guess it's
[13:37] SPEAKER_03: getting harder and harder for people to actually like read,
[13:40] SPEAKER_03: to sit down and read a journal article,
[13:42] SPEAKER_03: right?
[13:43] SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
[13:43] SPEAKER_03: And so I have to credit them for having this idea and thinking outside the box of a
[13:51] SPEAKER_03: different way to get medical information and knowledge out to the masses.
[13:57] SPEAKER_03: And you're absolutely right that I have been critical of journals.
[14:01] SPEAKER_03: And in particular, I've been critical of the predatory nature of some of the larger journals out there.
[14:10] SPEAKER_03: like Elsevier, I've specifically named Elsevier, Springer, these journals that have a 40% profit margin
[14:18] SPEAKER_03: And I certainly thought about that whenever I,
[14:21] SPEAKER_03: whenever I was,
[14:22] SPEAKER_03: you know,
[14:22] SPEAKER_03: looking into this partnership and,
[14:25] SPEAKER_03: um,
[14:26] SPEAKER_03: and the reason I was okay with doing it with the new England journal is because
[14:29] SPEAKER_03: they do have a little bit,
[14:30] SPEAKER_03: they're a nonprofit first of all.
[14:32] SPEAKER_03: So they're, they're run by the Massachusetts, um, uh, medical society.
[14:37] SPEAKER_03: That's what, that's the publisher for that journal.
[14:39] SPEAKER_03: And so, uh,
[14:42] SPEAKER_03: I feel OK partnering with them because I feel like they're doing it in a much
[14:48] SPEAKER_03: better way than some of the bigger journal corporations out there.
[14:54] SPEAKER_01: Well,
[14:54] SPEAKER_01: and also part of the deal that we negotiated was that those,
[14:58] SPEAKER_01: you know,
[14:59] SPEAKER_01: articles that you make skits about,
[15:01] SPEAKER_01: those will be available open access.
[15:03] SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah.
[15:04] SPEAKER_03: That was a prerequisite.
[15:05] SPEAKER_03: Yes.
[15:05] SPEAKER_03: I was like,
[15:05] SPEAKER_03: if I'm going to do this,
[15:06] SPEAKER_03: the articles that I'm talking about need to be free and readily available.
[15:11] SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
[15:13] SPEAKER_03: That's part of it.
[15:14] SPEAKER_02: I think you've done about five already, something like that.
[15:17] SPEAKER_02: And I watched them and I just was blown away.
[15:20] SPEAKER_02: I mean,
[15:21] SPEAKER_02: the one that got me where I just,
[15:23] SPEAKER_02: you know,
[15:23] SPEAKER_02: rolling on the floor,
[15:24] SPEAKER_02: this one,
[15:24] SPEAKER_02: the bilatinab,
[15:26] SPEAKER_02: bilatinab mafodoton for the multiple myeloma.
[15:31] SPEAKER_02: And when you were going on about the bortezoma,
[15:34] SPEAKER_02: I will link to this,
[15:35] SPEAKER_02: dexamethasone or daratumab,
[15:37] SPEAKER_02: I said,
[15:37] SPEAKER_02: oh my God.
[15:41] SPEAKER_03: Yeah, the joke there is you don't have any idea how long it took me to say those things that quickly.
[15:50] SPEAKER_03: And so I was writing this skit and I'm like,
[15:53] SPEAKER_03: wouldn't it be funny if somehow that triggered a code stroke in the hospital
[15:59] SPEAKER_03: because this person is saying all these random words that don't have any meaning to anybody.
[16:05] SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
[16:06] SPEAKER_03: um man i i tell you i am i am learning like why would i ever need to know any of
[16:12] SPEAKER_03: this information as an ophthalmologist so like it's great like i know all this
[16:17] SPEAKER_03: random stuff about multiple myeloma that i probably would never have learned
[16:20] SPEAKER_01: otherwise it's the only way that you won't read a journal either
[16:23] SPEAKER_02: Well,
[16:24] SPEAKER_02: you know,
[16:24] SPEAKER_02: and if you read the comments on the post,
[16:28] SPEAKER_02: these doctors saying this is the only way they want to get journal information from
[16:32] SPEAKER_02: now on.
[16:33] SPEAKER_03: Which is, you know, double edged sword, maybe a little bit like like obviously in a 90 second skit.
[16:42] SPEAKER_03: there's no way like i'm going to cover the the the you know ins and outs of a of a
[16:48] SPEAKER_03: of a major trial right so it's really in a lot of ways it's basically like a i call
[16:53] SPEAKER_03: it a comedy abstract because i'm not going much further than an abstract but
[16:58] SPEAKER_03: hopefully people that are actually interested in the topic can have their interest
[17:03] SPEAKER_03: peaked and want to read more about it that's kind of the idea
[17:06] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well, they're phenomenal.
[17:08] SPEAKER_02: We'll link to them.
[17:09] SPEAKER_02: People will enjoy them, I know, because I sure did.
[17:12] SPEAKER_02: And, you know, connect the place for stroke.
[17:15] SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
[17:17] SPEAKER_02: Oh, oh, they're just they're just phenomenal.
[17:20] SPEAKER_03: I have every two weeks, every two weeks we come out with a new one.
[17:23] SPEAKER_02: Wow.
[17:24] SPEAKER_02: And that is basically between the fact that you are now on the commencement circuit
[17:29] SPEAKER_02: of the top medical schools and doing New England Journal.
[17:33] SPEAKER_02: new england journal videos on their articles that you've crossed the line from just
[17:39] SPEAKER_02: making fun of insurance companies and doctors of specialties too oh he has crossed
[17:45] SPEAKER_02: many lines dr topo yeah oh yeah yeah now you've done it really now
[17:53] SPEAKER_02: Back two years ago when we convened,
[17:55] SPEAKER_02: actually,
[17:56] SPEAKER_02: it's almost three,
[17:56] SPEAKER_02: but you said,
[17:58] SPEAKER_02: when's it going to be your next Netflix special?
[18:02] SPEAKER_02: Is that in the works now?
[18:04] SPEAKER_03: Well, I'll tell you what's in the works now.
[18:06] SPEAKER_01: Do you know anyone at Netflix?
[18:09] SPEAKER_03: No, we're working on an animated series.
[18:12] SPEAKER_03: Oh, wow.
[18:12] SPEAKER_03: Wow.
[18:13] SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
[18:14] SPEAKER_03: All these characters, it's like basically just this fictional hospital.
[18:19] SPEAKER_03: And they're all, all these characters are very cartoonish.
[18:22] SPEAKER_03: You know, the emergency physician that wears the bike helmet and everything.
[18:27] SPEAKER_03: So it's like, Oh, this is what, what could we, what do we have together?
[18:30] SPEAKER_03: What do we, Kristen and I have time for?
[18:33] SPEAKER_03: And,
[18:34] SPEAKER_03: uh,
[18:34] SPEAKER_03: it wasn't like moving to LA and trying to like make a live action with actors and
[18:40] SPEAKER_03: do all,
[18:41] SPEAKER_03: which is something we probably could have tried to do.
[18:45] SPEAKER_03: So instead we were like, let's just do a animated series.
[18:47] SPEAKER_01: Let's have someone else do the work.
[18:50] SPEAKER_01: So draw us.
[18:51] SPEAKER_03: so we've been you know we we've worked with a writer for the first time which was a
[18:57] SPEAKER_03: fun process and um putting together a few scripts and then also an animator we
[19:02] SPEAKER_03: learned a lot about that process kristen and i are doing the voiceovers wow and uh
[19:08] SPEAKER_03: yeah it's it's it's in process we're the only actors we could afford so that's
[19:11] SPEAKER_02: right exactly that's right i can't wait to see it now when when will it get out
[19:16] SPEAKER_02: there
[19:17] SPEAKER_03: Well, we're, we're hoping to be able to put it out on our YouTube channel sometime early next year.
[19:25] SPEAKER_03: So, you know, January, February, somewhere around there.
[19:27] SPEAKER_03: And then we can't fund the whole thing ourselves.
[19:31] SPEAKER_03: So the idea is that we do this,
[19:33] SPEAKER_03: we do these like this pilot episode and we'll see what kind of interest we can generate.
[19:37] SPEAKER_02: There will be interest.
[19:39] SPEAKER_02: I am absolutely assured of that.
[19:41] SPEAKER_02: Wow.
[19:41] SPEAKER_02: Wow.
[19:42] SPEAKER_03: Let us know if you know anybody at the Cartoon Network.
[19:45] SPEAKER_03: Yeah, we're open to possibilities here.
[19:49] SPEAKER_03: Discovery Channel, I don't know.
[19:51] SPEAKER_02: You've gotten to a point now where you're ready for bigger things even because
[19:59] SPEAKER_02: you're the funniest physician couple in medicine today.
[20:04] SPEAKER_01: Well, that's a very low bar, but thank you.
[20:08] SPEAKER_03: There are some funny ones out there, but yeah, I appreciate that.
[20:11] SPEAKER_02: Well, you know, I'm, I'm a really big comedy fan.
[20:15] SPEAKER_02: I,
[20:15] SPEAKER_02: you know,
[20:16] SPEAKER_02: every night I watched the night before,
[20:18] SPEAKER_02: since I'm old now,
[20:20] SPEAKER_02: but of Colbert and Jimmy Kimmel,
[20:22] SPEAKER_02: just to hear the monologues,
[20:24] SPEAKER_02: you know,
[20:24] SPEAKER_02: and Trevor Noah too.
[20:26] SPEAKER_02: And I can appreciate humor.
[20:28] SPEAKER_02: I'll go to see Montelesco or Jim Gaffigan or,
[20:32] SPEAKER_02: you know,
[20:32] SPEAKER_02: that was one of the things I was going to ask you about,
[20:35] SPEAKER_02: because when you do these videos,
[20:37] SPEAKER_02: you don't have an audience.
[20:40] SPEAKER_02: You're making it as opposed to when you are doing your live shows and commencement
[20:48] SPEAKER_02: addresses and things like that.
[20:49] SPEAKER_02: What's the difference when you're trying to be humorous and you have no audience there?
[20:53] SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
[20:55] SPEAKER_03: Well, whenever I'm filming a skit, it's just all production.
[21:01] SPEAKER_03: In fact, I feel like it's funny.
[21:03] SPEAKER_03: I think it's funny,
[21:04] SPEAKER_03: but it's really not until I see the response to it or I show Kristen or what I have
[21:10] SPEAKER_03: is where I really know if it's going to work.
[21:14] SPEAKER_03: And it's great to put the content out there and see the responses, but there's nothing like...
[21:21] SPEAKER_03: live interaction.
[21:22] SPEAKER_03: And that's why I just, I keep coming back to performing.
[21:25] SPEAKER_03: And Kristen's been a performer too in her life.
[21:28] SPEAKER_03: And I think we both really enjoy just the personal interaction,
[21:32] SPEAKER_03: the close interaction,
[21:33] SPEAKER_03: the response from people to our story.
[21:36] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we do most of our work alone in this room.
[21:39] SPEAKER_01: Like I do a lot of writing.
[21:41] SPEAKER_01: He does a lot of, you know, playing all the people in his head.
[21:46] SPEAKER_01: And, you know, we do that very isolated.
[21:49] SPEAKER_01: And so it's very,
[21:51] SPEAKER_01: lovely to be able to actually like put you know names to faces or just see human
[21:56] SPEAKER_01: bodies instead of just comments on YouTube.
[21:58] SPEAKER_01: Meet people.
[22:00] SPEAKER_01: It's really nice.
[22:01] SPEAKER_03: We've been doing meet and greets at the live shows and seeing people come up
[22:05] SPEAKER_03: wearing their costumes and talking about you know
[22:11] SPEAKER_03: Some of them talk about how they tell us their own stories about their own health
[22:15] SPEAKER_03: care and talk about how the videos help them get through certain parts of the
[22:19] SPEAKER_03: pandemic or a difficult time in their life.
[22:23] SPEAKER_03: It just reinforces that this means something to a lot of people.
[22:29] SPEAKER_01: yeah it's been really fun for me and probably you too but to get to see the joy
[22:35] SPEAKER_01: that he has brought so many people um that's really fun to see you know in person
[22:41] SPEAKER_02: especially no question now do you when you're producing it together do you ever
[22:45] SPEAKER_02: just start breaking into laughter because it's just you know how funny this is or
[22:50] SPEAKER_02: is it just you're gonna you're on kind of a mission to get it done
[22:53] SPEAKER_03: Well,
[22:55] SPEAKER_03: the skits I do by myself,
[22:58] SPEAKER_03: and sometimes when I'm writing out the skit,
[23:02] SPEAKER_03: when I'm writing the skit itself,
[23:04] SPEAKER_03: I will laugh at myself sometimes.
[23:06] SPEAKER_03: Not often, but sometimes I'm like, oh, I know that's really funny.
[23:11] SPEAKER_03: I just wrote a skit that I'm actually gonna be debuting.
[23:14] SPEAKER_03: I'm speaking at the American Association of PM&R, so the big PM&R conference.
[23:21] SPEAKER_03: I'm writing a skit, uh, the, um, um, it's, uh, how to ace your PM and our residency interview.
[23:27] SPEAKER_03: So I was writing up that skit today and kind of chuckling to myself.
[23:31] SPEAKER_03: So sometimes that happens, but whenever we do our podcast together, like we, we definitely have outtakes.
[23:38] SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah.
[23:40] SPEAKER_03: We've got each other up.
[23:41] SPEAKER_01: We do.
[23:42] SPEAKER_03: Sometimes when we're getting a little punchy toward the end of the day,
[23:45] SPEAKER_03: you know,
[23:47] SPEAKER_02: and how,
[23:47] SPEAKER_02: how is the knock,
[23:48] SPEAKER_02: knock high podcast going on?
[23:51] SPEAKER_03: It's awesome.
[23:52] SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
[23:52] SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
[23:53] SPEAKER_01: It's a really fun project.
[23:54] SPEAKER_03: We still enjoy, you can work with your spouse and, and in close proximity and still be happily married.
[24:03] SPEAKER_03: So it's, it's, it's doable everyone.
[24:06] SPEAKER_01: That's right.
[24:07] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and we're in that phase of life that's really busy.
[24:09] SPEAKER_01: We've got kids, we've got a gazillion jobs, you know, house, my parents are around.
[24:17] SPEAKER_01: And so it's like the only time all week that we actually get to sit down and talk to each other.
[24:22] SPEAKER_01: So it's actually kind of like...
[24:25] SPEAKER_01: you know, a part of our marriage at this point.
[24:27] SPEAKER_03: We're happy to involve the public in our, in our conversations.
[24:32] SPEAKER_03: And,
[24:32] SPEAKER_03: uh,
[24:32] SPEAKER_03: but we,
[24:33] SPEAKER_03: you know,
[24:33] SPEAKER_03: we couldn't do it because we have all these things going on,
[24:36] SPEAKER_03: all our hands and all these little places,
[24:38] SPEAKER_03: you know,
[24:39] SPEAKER_03: we can't do it without a team.
[24:41] SPEAKER_03: That's,
[24:41] SPEAKER_03: that's the thing that I've learned because I've always been a very,
[24:43] SPEAKER_03: uh,
[24:45] SPEAKER_03: loner type content creator.
[24:47] SPEAKER_03: I just want to do it all myself.
[24:49] SPEAKER_03: I it's in my head and I have trouble telling others, uh,
[24:52] SPEAKER_03: you know describing what's in my head um and kristen and our producers have helped
[24:57] SPEAKER_03: me to be able to kind of give a little bit of control to others who are really good
[25:03] SPEAKER_03: at what they do and that's really the only way that we've been able to to venture
[25:08] SPEAKER_03: out into all these different things we've talked about well i think it comes down
[25:13] SPEAKER_02: to you know besides your ability to
[25:16] SPEAKER_02: make people you get to people in terms of their laughter receptors you have this
[25:22] SPEAKER_02: incisive observer capability and that's one of the things i don't really i can't
[25:28] SPEAKER_02: fathom because when you can understand the nuances of each specialty
[25:34] SPEAKER_02: or of each part of health care and you haven't necessarily interacted with these
[25:39] SPEAKER_02: specialists or at least in recent years but you nail it you nail it every time i
[25:43] SPEAKER_02: just i don't know how you do it really that that observational is that a central
[25:48] SPEAKER_02: quality of of of a comedian you think
[25:52] SPEAKER_03: There's definitely a big part of that because you got to get the content from somewhere.
[25:57] SPEAKER_03: But for the specialties, you know, it's really first about just getting the personalities down.
[26:05] SPEAKER_03: And that doesn't change over time.
[26:08] SPEAKER_01: Or around the world.
[26:09] SPEAKER_03: Or around the world.
[26:10] SPEAKER_03: We hear from people from all over the world about, oh, it's the same in Guatemala as it is in the U.S.
[26:18] SPEAKER_00: Surgeons are the same.
[26:19] SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
[26:19] SPEAKER_00: Emergency is the same.
[26:21] SPEAKER_03: Which has been really cool to see.
[26:23] SPEAKER_03: So I draw on my experience interacting with all these specialties back in my med school and intern days.
[26:30] SPEAKER_03: You're right.
[26:31] SPEAKER_03: As an ophthalmologist, we don't get out very much.
[26:33] SPEAKER_00: No.
[26:34] SPEAKER_03: Right.
[26:35] SPEAKER_03: So the very few people have ever seen an ophthalmologist.
[26:38] SPEAKER_03: We do exist.
[26:41] SPEAKER_03: But then beyond that, yeah, I do have to include some actual like medical things.
[26:46] SPEAKER_03: And and so I actually I do a lot of research.
[26:50] SPEAKER_03: I find myself learning more about other fields sometimes than I do in my own field.
[26:54] SPEAKER_03: So, um, especially the further out I get from med school, I just, I know less and less.
[27:00] SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
[27:00] SPEAKER_02: That's what I was thinking, but you're always spot on.
[27:03] SPEAKER_02: It's interesting to get that global perspective from both of you.
[27:06] SPEAKER_02: Now, um, you're still doing surgery and,
[27:10] SPEAKER_02: practicing ophthalmology have you have you reduced it because this has just been
[27:15] SPEAKER_02: taken off so much more over the recent years or keeping it the same nope i'm still
[27:21] SPEAKER_01: still do you know how many years i had to come along on all of this medical
[27:26] SPEAKER_01: training he is not allowed to give this up
[27:29] SPEAKER_03: I know there's something called a sunk cost fallacy, but this is no fallacy.
[27:33] SPEAKER_03: There's enough of a sunk cost.
[27:35] SPEAKER_03: I got to stick with it.
[27:36] SPEAKER_03: No, I still enjoy it.
[27:37] SPEAKER_03: That's the thing.
[27:38] SPEAKER_03: You know, it's still it actually it informs my comedy.
[27:43] SPEAKER_03: It grounds me.
[27:45] SPEAKER_03: all of the social media stuff is, is built upon this medical foundation that I have.
[27:50] SPEAKER_03: And if I stopped practicing, I guess I could, I could maybe cut back, but I'm not planning on doing that.
[27:58] SPEAKER_03: Um,
[27:59] SPEAKER_03: it's,
[28:00] SPEAKER_03: if I,
[28:00] SPEAKER_03: if I stopped practicing medicine,
[28:02] SPEAKER_03: I feel like it would make my content less,
[28:07] SPEAKER_03: um,
[28:07] SPEAKER_03: authentic,
[28:08] SPEAKER_03: less authentic.
[28:08] SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
[28:09] SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
[28:10] SPEAKER_02: No, that makes a lot of sense.
[28:11] SPEAKER_02: That's great.
[28:12] SPEAKER_02: You can get that balance.
[28:13] SPEAKER_02: Um,
[28:14] SPEAKER_02: with all the things you're doing.
[28:16] SPEAKER_03: And if I stop practicing medicine,
[28:18] SPEAKER_03: they're not going to invite me to any more commencement addresses,
[28:21] SPEAKER_03: Dr.
[28:21] SPEAKER_03: Toffel.
[28:22] SPEAKER_02: So I got to draw the line somewhere.
[28:26] SPEAKER_02: It's one of the statements you made at some point earlier was it was easier to go
[28:32] SPEAKER_02: to become a doctor than to try to be a comedian.
[28:36] SPEAKER_02: And, uh, yeah, I mean, you've proven a lot of ways.
[28:39] SPEAKER_02: That's true.
[28:40] SPEAKER_02: Wow.
[28:41] SPEAKER_02: Um,
[28:41] SPEAKER_02: yeah,
[28:42] SPEAKER_02: I just,
[28:43] SPEAKER_02: uh,
[28:43] SPEAKER_02: pretty awestruck about the rarefied talent that you bring and what you both have
[28:47] SPEAKER_02: done for medicine today.
[28:50] SPEAKER_02: And,
[28:50] SPEAKER_02: and the thing is,
[28:51] SPEAKER_02: you're,
[28:52] SPEAKER_02: you're so young,
[28:53] SPEAKER_02: you have so much,
[28:54] SPEAKER_02: you know,
[28:54] SPEAKER_02: time ahead to hear that impact.
[28:57] SPEAKER_03: You hear that, Kristen?
[28:58] SPEAKER_03: We're young.
[28:59] SPEAKER_03: Look at that.
[28:59] SPEAKER_01: You know, that's getting less and less true.
[29:01] SPEAKER_03: Kristen just turned 40.
[29:05] SPEAKER_03: It's right around the corner for me.
[29:06] SPEAKER_03: So I don't know.
[29:08] SPEAKER_02: We've got some years left.
[29:12] SPEAKER_02: You're like young puppies.
[29:13] SPEAKER_02: Are you kidding?
[29:14] SPEAKER_02: You're just getting started.
[29:17] SPEAKER_02: But no, I think that what you brought to medicine in terms of comedy, there's no other...
[29:23] SPEAKER_02: entity no person or people like that you have done and just the last thing i want
[29:29] SPEAKER_02: to ask you about is you have a platform for advocacy you've been doing that we
[29:33] SPEAKER_02: talked about co-survivor we talked about nurturing the human qualities in
[29:38] SPEAKER_02: physicians like creativity um and also you know taking on the insurance companies
[29:44] SPEAKER_02: which are just monstrous i'll link the many a couple of those but the brain mri one
[29:52] SPEAKER_02: The Texaco.
[29:54] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that one's amazing.
[29:56] SPEAKER_02: But there's so many.
[29:58] SPEAKER_02: I mean, you've just taken them apart and they deserve every bit of it.
[30:01] SPEAKER_02: Do you have any other targets for advocacy or is that just kind of come up as things go?
[30:08] SPEAKER_03: It kind of comes up as things go.
[30:10] SPEAKER_03: There's things I keep harping on.
[30:12] SPEAKER_03: The prior authorization reform, which I've helped in a couple different states.
[30:19] SPEAKER_03: There's a lot of good people around the country doing really good work on prior
[30:23] SPEAKER_03: authorization and reforming that whole process.
[30:26] SPEAKER_03: And I've been able to just play a small part in that for in a couple of different ways.
[30:32] SPEAKER_03: And that's been it's been really fun to do that.
[30:35] SPEAKER_03: And so I do plan on continuing that crusade, as it were.
[30:40] SPEAKER_03: There are certain things I'd like to see.
[30:42] SPEAKER_03: I've been I've been learning more about what pharmacists are dealing with as well
[30:46] SPEAKER_03: as a physician,
[30:48] SPEAKER_03: because that's.
[30:49] SPEAKER_03: Unfortunately, we are very separate in a lot of ways and just how we come up in medicine.
[30:54] SPEAKER_03: And so I have had my eyes opened a lot to what community pharmacists are dealing with.
[31:00] SPEAKER_03: For all the terrible things that we have to deal with as physicians in the health
[31:04] SPEAKER_03: care system,
[31:05] SPEAKER_03: pharmacists have just as much,
[31:06] SPEAKER_03: if not more,
[31:07] SPEAKER_03: of the things that they're doing that are threatening their livelihoods.
[31:11] SPEAKER_03: And so I'd love to see some more reform on the PBM side of things.
[31:17] SPEAKER_03: You know, pharmacy benefit managers, Caremark, Optum, all of them, they're causing lots of problems.
[31:24] SPEAKER_02: I couldn't agree with you more.
[31:25] SPEAKER_02: In fact, I'm going to have Mark Cuban on in a few weeks and we're going to get into that.
[31:31] SPEAKER_02: But the pharmacists get abused by these chains.
[31:33] SPEAKER_03: Oh, it's bad.
[31:34] SPEAKER_03: It's really bad.
[31:35] SPEAKER_02: Horrible.
[31:36] SPEAKER_02: I feel, you know, and every time I...
[31:37] SPEAKER_02: I'm in a drugstore and working with one of them.
[31:40] SPEAKER_02: I just think what a tough life they have to deal with.
[31:45] SPEAKER_03: I guess from a from an advocacy standpoint,
[31:48] SPEAKER_03: you know,
[31:48] SPEAKER_03: the good news is that there's never a shortage of terrible injustices that are
[31:53] SPEAKER_03: being foisted upon.
[31:55] SPEAKER_03: the public and physicians and healthcare workers.
[31:58] SPEAKER_01: The U S healthcare system is ripe for advocacy.
[32:01] SPEAKER_03: Yes.
[32:01] SPEAKER_03: So there's, there's, if there's, and that's a lesson that I tell people too.
[32:06] SPEAKER_03: And especially the med students coming up is like,
[32:09] SPEAKER_03: there's,
[32:10] SPEAKER_03: there,
[32:10] SPEAKER_03: there's work to be done and,
[32:12] SPEAKER_03: you know,
[32:13] SPEAKER_03: get in touch with your state societies and,
[32:15] SPEAKER_03: and there's always work to be done.
[32:17] SPEAKER_02: Now you've stayed clear of politics, totally clear, right?
[32:24] SPEAKER_03: For the most part.
[32:24] SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
[32:25] SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
[32:26] SPEAKER_03: I mean, it depends on what you consider politics.
[32:30] SPEAKER_02: It depends on what you consider politics.
[32:32] SPEAKER_02: It'd be an election day.
[32:32] SPEAKER_02: You haven't made any endorsements.
[32:36] SPEAKER_03: I haven't.
[32:37] SPEAKER_03: And, you know, I don't know.
[32:38] SPEAKER_03: I just, I don't,
[32:42] SPEAKER_03: i can only handle so much you know i i've got my things that i i really care about
[32:46] SPEAKER_03: of course i'm voting but um you know i i i want to talk on the things that i i feel
[32:53] SPEAKER_03: like i have the expertise to talk about right and and i think there's nothing wrong
[33:00] SPEAKER_03: with that you know um
[33:02] SPEAKER_03: You know,
[33:04] SPEAKER_03: everybody can't can't have an opinion on everything and it means something,
[33:09] SPEAKER_03: you know,
[33:10] SPEAKER_03: so I am happy to discuss the things that I have expertise about.
[33:16] SPEAKER_03: And and I'm always, always on the side of the patient and wanting to make life better for our patients.
[33:23] SPEAKER_03: And that's the side I'm on.
[33:25] SPEAKER_01: I think also it's,
[33:26] SPEAKER_01: you know,
[33:26] SPEAKER_01: he never comes out and explicitly touches on certain topics,
[33:30] SPEAKER_01: but it's not hard to tell where he falls.
[33:33] SPEAKER_03: I mean, if you really want to read into it all.
[33:36] SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
[33:37] SPEAKER_01: It's not like it's a big secret.
[33:39] SPEAKER_01: It's just like...
[33:40] SPEAKER_02: I thought that too.
[33:42] SPEAKER_02: I'm glad you mentioned it, Kristen.
[33:44] SPEAKER_02: But it doesn't come out wide open, but yeah, it's inferred for sure.
[33:48] SPEAKER_02: And I think the point being there is that because you have a reach that's
[33:55] SPEAKER_02: You know,
[33:56] SPEAKER_02: I think there's no reach that has,
[33:58] SPEAKER_02: you know,
[33:58] SPEAKER_02: four million plus people by your posts and no less the tours and keynotes and,
[34:05] SPEAKER_02: you know,
[34:05] SPEAKER_02: everything else.
[34:06] SPEAKER_02: So you could go anywhere, but sticking to where you're well grounded, it makes a lot of sense.
[34:11] SPEAKER_02: And anyway, I'm going to be staying tuned.
[34:14] SPEAKER_02: This is our two year checkup.
[34:16] SPEAKER_02: I'm hoping you're going to come to San Diego for your on your next tour.
[34:20] SPEAKER_01: We're working on 2025 plans.
[34:23] SPEAKER_03: We've got more shows coming up and we'll hit up other parts of the country too.
[34:28] SPEAKER_02: I feel like I've got to meet you in person, give you a hug or something.
[34:32] SPEAKER_02: I just feel like I'm missing out there.
[34:35] SPEAKER_02: It's just a joy to have had a chance to work with you on your podcast.
[34:40] SPEAKER_02: Thanks for coming back on one of mine.
[34:44] SPEAKER_02: There's lots of podcasts out there, but having you...
[34:49] SPEAKER_02: And joining you is such fun.
[34:53] SPEAKER_02: So thank you.
[34:54] SPEAKER_03: This has been great.
[34:55] SPEAKER_03: Thank you for having us.
[34:55] SPEAKER_00: Thank you.

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