# Full Circle | EP 8 | Season 2

An episode of [Burden of Guilt](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1711277020), 1 Apr 2026, 33 min.

Audio: https://podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/ec39cd51-11c3-432e-aa44-b08500fd66ca/5f6b83df-bad0-4c73-ace2-b4170115beb4/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=240645c5-ee68-49b9-8b4e-b08501009bb0

In the final episode of Burden of Guilt, Jermaine Hudson returns to Angola—on his own terms. And he reflects on his extraordinary friendship with Bobby Gumpright. Meanwhile, Bobby returns to the church that showed him kindness and grace in the throes of his addiction. You can reach out to the Burden of Guilt team at Burdenofguiltpod@gmail.com. For more Burden of Guilt, follow us on Instagram @glasspodcasts. To follow the work of the Promise of Justice Initiative online, go to https://promiseofjustice.org at @justicespromise on Instagram and Twitter or @promiseofjustice on Facebook and Bluesky. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:04] Speaker 1: Jermaine Hudson and Bobby Gumpbride's story is one of a kind.
[0:08] Speaker 1: It says a lot about the state of Louisiana and
[0:11] Speaker 1: the way the justice system works there, But at its core,
[0:15] Speaker 1: it's a story about redemption, about two men whose lives
[0:19] Speaker 1: were derailed by one lie, and about Jermaine's extraordinary choice
[0:25] Speaker 1: to forgive Bobby. I want to sort of reflect on
[0:28] Speaker 1: what we're doing here right now, you two sitting next
[0:31] Speaker 1: to each other telling the story.
[0:34] Speaker 2: How does that feel to you?
[0:37] Speaker 3: Most people go through these experiences with beardness in their heart.
[0:41] Speaker 3: They probably wouldn't even want to be around Bobby. They
[0:44] Speaker 3: probably would really despise him for the rest of their life.
[0:49] Speaker 4: But I'm built different. I am really built different.
[0:55] Speaker 3: My heart is built different, my mindset is built different,
[0:59] Speaker 3: and I really thrive awful just calling him, how you doing?
[1:07] Speaker 5: Man?
[1:08] Speaker 4: Is everything? Okay?
[1:11] Speaker 1: Most people would not be able to do this, not
[1:14] Speaker 1: only forgive the person who wrongfully put you in prison,
[1:17] Speaker 1: but befriend them. And I say, worked on the story
[1:20] Speaker 1: and talk to Bobby and tremain. I needed to ask
[1:23] Speaker 1: Bobby one simple question.
[1:27] Speaker 2: Do you think if the shoe was on the other foot,
[1:31] Speaker 2: this would have been the outcome. Do you think you
[1:35] Speaker 2: would have been able to forgive somebody who put you
[1:38] Speaker 2: in prison and who took away part of your life.
[2:03] Speaker 1: I'm Nancy Glass. This is the final episode of season
[2:07] Speaker 1: two of Burden of Guilt, Episode eight, Full Circle. They
[2:14] Speaker 1: say you can't go back, but sometimes you have to.
[2:18] Speaker 1: In October of twenty twenty five, our team took a
[2:21] Speaker 1: trip to Angola. Jermaine agreed to join us. He hadn't
[2:25] Speaker 1: stepped foot on those prison grounds since his exoneration in
[2:29] Speaker 1: twenty twenty one, so our team started to drive from
[2:33] Speaker 1: New Orleans to the prison.
[2:37] Speaker 3: A lot of the fellows been asking me when I'm
[2:39] Speaker 3: coming back. I wasn't really ready to face it at
[2:44] Speaker 3: that moment because it was still fresh in my system
[2:48] Speaker 3: and I didn't want to look at that place. Now
[2:52] Speaker 3: there's a time for me to go pay my respect,
[2:55] Speaker 3: pay my visits to the brothers that I grew up with,
[2:58] Speaker 3: share a few laughs with them, and give him some hope.
[3:02] Speaker 1: For most of the ride, Germaine sat quietly holding his
[3:05] Speaker 1: wife Kristen's hand.
[3:07] Speaker 3: I remember this role like it was yesterday. You know,
[3:11] Speaker 3: I got goops bumps in my homes. He brings back
[3:15] Speaker 3: a lot of memories coming up this rod.
[3:19] Speaker 1: As we got closer to the prison, those memories of
[3:22] Speaker 1: what Termaine and Dured came rushing back. It started when
[3:27] Speaker 1: he saw the fields where inmates are forced to work.
[3:31] Speaker 4: This role right here.
[3:33] Speaker 3: We used to get out here with weed eaters and
[3:38] Speaker 3: just cut all this grass on the side in like
[3:40] Speaker 3: ninety eight one hundred degree heat.
[3:44] Speaker 4: It wasn't right.
[3:47] Speaker 1: The weekend we went to Angola was a special occasion,
[3:51] Speaker 1: the annual Angola Prison Rodeo. If you haven't heard of
[3:56] Speaker 1: it before, this rodeo is a distinctly luisy a phenomena
[4:01] Speaker 1: every year and Gola sells tickets to the public and
[4:04] Speaker 1: puts on a true rodeo. The crowd was overwhelming. There
[4:09] Speaker 1: was a jam packed stadium with thousands of people walking around,
[4:13] Speaker 1: people on horseback with flags. Our team saw bull riding,
[4:17] Speaker 1: wild horse racing, and rodeo poker. And there was an
[4:21] Speaker 1: enormous hobbycraft market where you could buy handmade crafts.
[4:26] Speaker 3: They'd be a rocket chairs, they do beadroom sets, dresser sets,
[4:31] Speaker 3: they make built jewelry.
[4:33] Speaker 4: You know, they're very creative.
[4:36] Speaker 1: The aromas from different food stalls wafted through the crowd
[4:40] Speaker 1: so if you're a fan of Crawfishe Touffe, you were
[4:44] Speaker 1: in luck. But everyone performing and everyone selling their crafts
[4:48] Speaker 1: is an inmate in Angola. Inmates get to keep money
[4:52] Speaker 1: they earned from selling their crafts, but the rest of
[4:55] Speaker 1: the profits are used by the prison to support programs.
[5:01] Speaker 1: The rodeo is a complicated thing. Some on the outside
[5:05] Speaker 1: think it's cruel and exploits inmates. They're not professionals. They
[5:09] Speaker 1: risk serious injury for prize money that's relatively small, But
[5:14] Speaker 1: for many of the inmates it's the highlight of the year.
[5:17] Speaker 1: It's a fleeting moment of normalcy. Inmates with demonstrated good
[5:22] Speaker 1: behavior are offered the opportunity to walk the rodeo grounds.
[5:26] Speaker 1: They can sit among their family and friends, share a meal,
[5:29] Speaker 1: and feel like they're free in society for just a moment.
[5:33] Speaker 3: A lot of prisoners love it. They really prepared for
[5:36] Speaker 3: that moment. That's where a lot of guys make their
[5:39] Speaker 3: money at They love it because they get a chance
[5:43] Speaker 3: to go out, be out for a while and see
[5:45] Speaker 3: people from on outside.
[5:48] Speaker 1: Now, Jermaine was returning as a free man. He didn't
[5:52] Speaker 1: have to wear an orange shirt and return to a
[5:54] Speaker 1: cell at the end of the day.
[5:57] Speaker 3: The difference is on outside looking in now. I'm not
[6:03] Speaker 3: on the inside looking out.
[6:08] Speaker 1: One of Jermaine's biggest motivations for attending the rodeo now
[6:11] Speaker 1: was to visit the men he considered his brothers, the
[6:14] Speaker 1: men he spent decades with who were still there.
[6:18] Speaker 3: It's a time for me to get him some hope.
[6:22] Speaker 1: As he walked the rodeo grounds, people began recognizing Germaine
[6:26] Speaker 1: one by one. Inmates would do a double take and
[6:29] Speaker 1: then come up and embrace him.
[6:36] Speaker 6: I want to love all.
[6:40] Speaker 3: Right, bro, trying to make the best out of vast situation.
[6:45] Speaker 1: It was emotional for Germaine and for the men he
[6:48] Speaker 1: hadn't seen in years.
[6:52] Speaker 4: Just wait, wait, wrst want to see mars one to say.
[7:01] Speaker 7: No, I no.
[7:04] Speaker 1: Angola has a way of reminding you where you are.
[7:08] Speaker 1: This is a prison built on a plantation, a place
[7:11] Speaker 1: where the past hasn't really passed. When Germaine was sentenced
[7:15] Speaker 1: to ninety nine years, he had no idea that hard
[7:19] Speaker 1: labor was an understatement. Millions of dollars are earned off
[7:24] Speaker 1: the backs of the men incarcerated.
[7:29] Speaker 3: They take them, use them, work them. In a one
[7:33] Speaker 3: hundred and ten degree heat, slaving them and throw them away.
[7:40] Speaker 2: They're working fields, yeah outside, yeah, doing what picking vegetables?
[7:46] Speaker 2: They picked crops.
[7:48] Speaker 4: Yeah, they pick all their vegetables.
[7:51] Speaker 3: And you got a security guard at the front of
[7:54] Speaker 3: the line riding a horse. And you got a security
[7:57] Speaker 3: guard at the back of the line riding a horse.
[7:59] Speaker 3: But these guys are out there with jeans on long
[8:04] Speaker 3: sleeve shirts, with a tool on his shoulders.
[8:08] Speaker 4: And they walk in.
[8:09] Speaker 3: These guys one in two miles and one hundred degree heat.
[8:16] Speaker 4: It's pure hell.
[8:20] Speaker 1: On the farm line. There's no consideration for anyone's disabilities
[8:24] Speaker 1: or limitations. This is usually where the men go once
[8:27] Speaker 1: they enter the prison.
[8:29] Speaker 3: This place is destroyed. So many lives, So many of
[8:32] Speaker 3: these guys are still buried on his plantation.
[8:36] Speaker 1: After spending the day at the prison grounds with Germaine,
[8:40] Speaker 1: everyone drove back to New Orleans in silence. To understand
[8:46] Speaker 1: what Germaine experienced at Angola, we spoke with Gwen Felosa,
[8:50] Speaker 1: a former criminal justice reporter for The Times pickyun She
[8:54] Speaker 1: visited the prison while Germaine was incarcerated there. The first
[8:59] Speaker 1: time she drove onto the grounds of Angola, she says
[9:03] Speaker 1: the scene felt almost impossible to process. Being at Angola
[9:08] Speaker 1: felt like stepping into another century.
[9:13] Speaker 8: When you pull up, it's a former plantation, and you
[9:17] Speaker 8: drive in and you go through checkpoint, you see a
[9:20] Speaker 8: guy with a long gun cocked. He's sitting on a horse.
[9:23] Speaker 8: It's on a horse holding the long gun. And then
[9:27] Speaker 8: you see a line of prisoners and they are walking
[9:32] Speaker 8: either with shovel or a hoe over their neck, and
[9:35] Speaker 8: they're walking out to work the field. I felt like
[9:39] Speaker 8: I was on Mars.
[9:50] Speaker 1: When reporter Gwen Fealosa drove into Angola, she felt like
[9:54] Speaker 1: she was on another planet. To understand why, we have
[9:58] Speaker 1: to go back way back to the Louisiana of eighteen
[10:02] Speaker 1: sixty five. After the Civil War, Louisiana needed to find
[10:07] Speaker 1: a way to reinvent cheap labor to work on plantations.
[10:10] Speaker 1: How could they recapture the black men who were freed
[10:13] Speaker 1: after slavery was abolished. The state devised a scheme to
[10:18] Speaker 1: create laws that would make minor or made up offenses felonies.
[10:23] Speaker 9: To get them into prison, you have to figure out
[10:25] Speaker 9: ways that they are criminals. The most common of these
[10:29] Speaker 9: laws it was for vagrancy, which just meant not having
[10:32] Speaker 9: a job when vagrancy was made of felony. It took
[10:37] Speaker 9: away all the leverage that former slaves had.
[10:42] Speaker 1: That's doctor Thomas Hayelo, an Africana studies professor at Valdosta
[10:46] Speaker 1: State University in Georgia and the author of Jim Crow's
[10:50] Speaker 1: Last Stand. He told us that once prisons had men's
[10:55] Speaker 1: sentenced for minor or even nonexistent infractions, they would rent
[11:00] Speaker 1: them out to plantation owners across the state. It was
[11:04] Speaker 1: a boon for the state coffers and a source of
[11:07] Speaker 1: really cheap labor for the men who could no longer
[11:10] Speaker 1: legally own slaves.
[11:13] Speaker 9: That became known as convict lease, and it.
[11:17] Speaker 4: Was horrible.
[11:20] Speaker 1: During that time. Those men work from sun up to sundown, chained, beaten, starved,
[11:26] Speaker 1: and entirely disposable.
[11:30] Speaker 9: The death rateing convict lease was about twenty five percent,
[11:33] Speaker 9: which means if you did get caught.
[11:35] Speaker 10: For vagrancy for standing in the wrong place.
[11:37] Speaker 9: At the wrong time, you had a one in four
[11:40] Speaker 9: chance of that becoming the death penalty.
[11:43] Speaker 1: In the early nineteen hundreds, the state outlawed convict leasing.
[11:47] Speaker 1: They could no longer be rented out, but the farm
[11:51] Speaker 1: work didn't stop. The state used their inmate population to
[11:55] Speaker 1: work three thousand acres of Angola's land to raise livestock,
[11:59] Speaker 1: vegetable and cotton, to name a few. Today, inmates get
[12:04] Speaker 1: paid as low as four cents an hour for this labor.
[12:07] Speaker 1: Some of the food is kept by the prison to
[12:10] Speaker 1: feed the population, but plenty of it goes on the
[12:13] Speaker 1: open market, earning money for the state. You might be
[12:17] Speaker 1: wondering how this is connected to Jermaine's story. Well, the
[12:21] Speaker 1: state has a financial incentive to keep this cheap labor.
[12:24] Speaker 1: That could be one reason why Louisiana lawmakers oppose the
[12:28] Speaker 1: bill Germaine and Bobby advocated for because that would mean
[12:32] Speaker 1: vacating nearly a thousand convictions people they're making money off of.
[12:37] Speaker 1: The executive director of the Promise of Justice Initiative, Samantha Kennedy,
[12:42] Speaker 1: sees how history repeats itself at Angola over a century later.
[12:47] Speaker 5: There's so much money in bodies, so much money in bodies.
[12:52] Speaker 5: People are a commodity that has not changed. It looks different.
[12:58] Speaker 5: It's legitimized by system. Without a doubt. Those institutions are
[13:03] Speaker 5: recreating and enacting and embodying highly dehumanizing racist practices, and
[13:11] Speaker 5: it's a tremendous assault to the idea that people in
[13:15] Speaker 5: Louisiana belong to the rest of the country, that we
[13:18] Speaker 5: have the same rights that black people have, the same
[13:20] Speaker 5: rights that black people deserve autonomy, freedom, joy and family
[13:25] Speaker 5: like everybody else.
[13:33] Speaker 1: All of this ways on the men incarcerated here. It
[13:37] Speaker 1: waited on Germaine during his twenty two years, and it's
[13:40] Speaker 1: the thing that motivates Germane to continue fighting for legislation
[13:44] Speaker 1: to overturn split jury convictions. He knows the guys who
[13:48] Speaker 1: are still suffering at Angola because of a now unconstitutional verdict. Jermaine,
[13:56] Speaker 1: what has driven you to keep going back to advocate
[13:59] Speaker 1: for people?
[14:01] Speaker 3: I have guys that I've actually formed a productthod relationship with,
[14:07] Speaker 3: and to know that there are guys that's in the
[14:11] Speaker 3: same situation that I was in and going through the
[14:14] Speaker 3: same thing I was going through, it just motivated me
[14:17] Speaker 3: to fight for them.
[14:23] Speaker 1: Even though the last attempt failed. Jermaine is not deterred.
[14:27] Speaker 1: He's going back to testify in front of the Louisiana
[14:31] Speaker 1: legislature next month because an estimated fifteen hundred other people
[14:36] Speaker 1: are still incarcerated in Louisiana prisons after split verdicts.
[14:41] Speaker 5: Originally, when we started this journey, we had identified fifteen hundred.
[14:45] Speaker 5: Between now and then people have died or we've resolved cases,
[14:50] Speaker 5: But at this point we think it's between eight hundred
[14:53] Speaker 5: and one thousand.
[14:55] Speaker 4: They need a voice.
[14:56] Speaker 3: They need somebody to stand up and be like, even
[15:00] Speaker 3: if I don't win, even if it fails, at least
[15:03] Speaker 3: deacons say he fought for us. He didn't get out
[15:06] Speaker 3: of here and just leave us. He didn't get out
[15:07] Speaker 3: of here and just say I'm done with that.
[15:11] Speaker 1: About a year ago, Jermaine invited Bobby to his home
[15:14] Speaker 1: in Texas, and even though Bobby accepted the invite, he
[15:17] Speaker 1: was a nervous wreck. He was going to face the
[15:20] Speaker 1: family Jermaine was taken away from for twenty two years.
[15:24] Speaker 1: Jermaine's wife, Kristen was the first person who approached him.
[15:28] Speaker 7: I was standing in the kitchen and I still had
[15:31] Speaker 7: not sat down. I didn't feel comfortable. I didn't know
[15:33] Speaker 7: what to do with my hands. Normally, I'm pretty confident
[15:37] Speaker 7: in situations like that. I'm not normally somebody who doesn't
[15:41] Speaker 7: know what to say or do, But in that instance,
[15:43] Speaker 7: I had no clue what to do with myself. She
[15:47] Speaker 7: walked over and she grabbed me, like wrapped me up
[15:52] Speaker 7: in her arms, and I just started sobbing.
[15:58] Speaker 10: She just said it's over. Now, you don't have to
[16:01] Speaker 10: cry anymore.
[16:06] Speaker 7: And when she said that, I knew what her heart was,
[16:11] Speaker 7: and I knew that it was exactly what Jermayne's heart
[16:14] Speaker 7: was because it was almost the same exact thing that
[16:17] Speaker 7: Jermaine had said to me when we met.
[16:21] Speaker 1: Here's Kristen.
[16:23] Speaker 4: The embrace was natural. It's just who we are, like,
[16:28] Speaker 4: we just have loving hearts. So it was no ill feeling.
[16:32] Speaker 4: Like again, we were just.
[16:34] Speaker 8: So easy to be able to forgive him.
[16:38] Speaker 1: Jermaine didn't just say the words I forgive you. He
[16:42] Speaker 1: invited Bobby into his home and set an example of
[16:45] Speaker 1: forgiveness for the rest of the family. As we wrapped
[16:50] Speaker 1: up this series, I invited Jermaine and Bobby to come
[16:53] Speaker 1: to our studio in Philadelphia. I wanted to sit down
[16:57] Speaker 1: with them and talk about their unlikely French I want
[17:02] Speaker 1: to sort of reflect on what we're doing here right now,
[17:05] Speaker 1: you two sitting next to each other telling the story.
[17:09] Speaker 2: How does that feel to you?
[17:12] Speaker 4: Here's refreshing. It's refreshing for me because I know what
[17:19] Speaker 4: is doing.
[17:21] Speaker 1: Guermaane, It's really hard to imagine how you're able to
[17:25] Speaker 1: form this friendship and not have resentment. Can you explain this?
[17:31] Speaker 3: Because when you have a heart and you're able to
[17:38] Speaker 3: sit next to the person, the man that sent you
[17:42] Speaker 3: to prison, and to have a bond a relationship, it
[17:49] Speaker 3: gives me a sense of peace. It gives me peace.
[17:54] Speaker 3: I can go to sleep at night gnawing that he
[18:01] Speaker 3: did the right thing, even though it took twenty two years.
[18:08] Speaker 3: But I give him way more credit for even coming
[18:13] Speaker 3: forward to even have me on his heart to say
[18:17] Speaker 3: I have to undo this.
[18:20] Speaker 1: As we were reporting this story, there was one question
[18:23] Speaker 1: I kept thinking about, could I forgive someone who had
[18:26] Speaker 1: done this to me, who had taken away twenty two
[18:29] Speaker 1: years of my life for a crime that never happened.
[18:33] Speaker 1: I don't think I could. I asked Bobby the same question.
[18:38] Speaker 2: Do you think if the shoe was on the other
[18:40] Speaker 2: foot this would have been the outcome? Do you think
[18:45] Speaker 2: you would have been able to forgive somebody who put
[18:48] Speaker 2: you in prison and who took away part of your life.
[18:54] Speaker 10: Only if God gave me the strength to.
[18:58] Speaker 7: But in my own power, as a very very flawed individual,
[19:05] Speaker 7: absolutely not.
[19:07] Speaker 2: It's interesting because you, of course punished yourself for years
[19:12] Speaker 2: and years and years because of what you did, So
[19:18] Speaker 2: is that still with you? Do you still feel guilty
[19:21] Speaker 2: about those things?
[19:23] Speaker 7: When I was approached with a lineup and I picked
[19:28] Speaker 7: him out of the lineup, I was doing.
[19:31] Speaker 10: It out of.
[19:33] Speaker 7: Selfish motives, not because it actually happened. So I guess
[19:41] Speaker 7: I don't know what feeling was really connected to that
[19:44] Speaker 7: other than selfishness. Guilt is a powerful motivator, and guilt
[19:50] Speaker 7: is an emotion that as humans, I believe we need.
[19:56] Speaker 10: And I do still feel guilt. What I don't feel anymore.
[20:01] Speaker 7: The difference is I did a bad thing, not that
[20:05] Speaker 7: I'm a bad person. There's a difference, and it took
[20:09] Speaker 7: me a long time to understand that difference and not
[20:12] Speaker 7: living the shame. But of course I'm still guilty of
[20:17] Speaker 7: what I did, and it's still something that I think
[20:21] Speaker 7: about constantly.
[20:25] Speaker 2: True, men, what does the friendship mean to you?
[20:30] Speaker 3: It means a lot to me because it shows my growth.
[20:37] Speaker 3: It also shows the type of man that I've grown
[20:41] Speaker 3: to be. You're looking at forgiveness, You're looking at a
[20:46] Speaker 3: friendship that has been formed. You're looking at life that
[20:49] Speaker 3: has been changed, and I pray we can change others.
[20:52] Speaker 3: I pray to whoever you know, the listeners, the own
[20:54] Speaker 3: listeners doesn't listen, I pray that they can forgive.
[20:58] Speaker 4: It ain't got to be this situation. It ain't got
[21:01] Speaker 4: to be a situation like this.
[21:03] Speaker 2: Do you ever feel that your relationship with Germaine is
[21:09] Speaker 2: a reminder of the worst mistake you've ever made.
[21:15] Speaker 10: It's a reminder of the greatest forgiveness I've ever received.
[21:20] Speaker 1: Bobby sees it as a miracle, a chance to finally
[21:23] Speaker 1: live a normal life.
[21:25] Speaker 2: You healed because of Germaine.
[21:30] Speaker 4: Absolutely.
[21:32] Speaker 1: Part of the reason Jermaine was inclined to forgive Bobby
[21:36] Speaker 1: was because he saw something in him that is pretty uncommon,
[21:40] Speaker 1: genuine remorse. It started the moment Bobby testified at Germaine's
[21:45] Speaker 1: compensation hearing.
[21:47] Speaker 3: I actually went to court and I seen him on
[21:51] Speaker 3: the zoom video, and it was something in my heart
[21:57] Speaker 3: that captured me when I see him crying, because looking
[22:04] Speaker 3: at him, I automatically felt his remotse.
[22:10] Speaker 4: I automatically felt how.
[22:13] Speaker 3: Genuine he was, because most people don't cry like that.
[22:19] Speaker 3: He couldn't even talk, he was crying so hard. Most
[22:25] Speaker 3: people don't do that. I felt like I was going
[22:30] Speaker 3: to be the one to help him just as much
[22:33] Speaker 3: as he was going to help me get my life
[22:34] Speaker 3: back on track.
[22:37] Speaker 1: At this point in our interview, we saw Bobby go
[22:40] Speaker 1: back to that place.
[22:42] Speaker 2: Bobby, what brings up such emotion in you?
[22:47] Speaker 10: Just words you never thought you would hear?
[22:49] Speaker 4: Right, Like.
[22:52] Speaker 7: The man that I put in prison for twenty two
[22:55] Speaker 7: years wrongfully wanted to help me get my.
[22:59] Speaker 10: Life, life back on trapping it. I just want to
[23:06] Speaker 10: be half the man that he is.
[23:09] Speaker 1: Bobby's been sober for nearly five years. He works at
[23:13] Speaker 1: a rehab facility and says he's a new man. Bobby
[23:17] Speaker 1: sent us a text. It was a video taken in
[23:21] Speaker 1: a crowded restaurant and Bobby was on one knee. After
[23:25] Speaker 1: everything he went through, every stride he made, he was
[23:29] Speaker 1: now asking for someone to build a future with him.
[23:33] Speaker 7: I've never been in a healthy relationship in my entire life,
[23:36] Speaker 7: even with myself, so we're just super grateful to have
[23:40] Speaker 7: each other and to be on this journey together.
[23:43] Speaker 1: He married his wife, Leslie in June of twenty twenty five.
[23:47] Speaker 1: It's sufforded Bobby a joy he thought he never would
[23:51] Speaker 1: have experienced.
[23:52] Speaker 7: Oh, we're so in love. We're so in love. I'm
[23:58] Speaker 7: so grateful that I have her with me during this
[24:02] Speaker 7: whole process.
[24:04] Speaker 1: Best of all, his friend Jermaine has been on the
[24:07] Speaker 1: sidelines cheering him on.
[24:10] Speaker 7: I've got a guy like Jermaine who like She posted
[24:16] Speaker 7: a picture on our Instagram of us. We were at
[24:19] Speaker 7: a date night at the movies and Jermaine jumped in there.
[24:22] Speaker 7: He said, my favorite couple on the comments and he said,
[24:27] Speaker 7: we love y'all. He'll call her and just talk with
[24:31] Speaker 7: her and encourage her, and he'll say, what's up, queen.
[24:35] Speaker 7: You know he treats my wife like a sister, and
[24:40] Speaker 7: we're truely blessed.
[24:54] Speaker 1: At the beginning of this series, you heard about Bobby
[24:58] Speaker 1: Compright the day he was high and homeless and stumbled
[25:02] Speaker 1: into a church in Eunice, Louisiana. He chose that church
[25:06] Speaker 1: because of the pastor's first name, Jermaine. Bobby felt like
[25:10] Speaker 1: it was a sign. Two years later, Pastor Jermaine Testano
[25:15] Speaker 1: was doing his regular Sunday morning routine, opening the church
[25:19] Speaker 1: doors and preparing for his congregation to fill the pews
[25:23] Speaker 1: at Greater True Light Baptist Church. When the doors opened,
[25:27] Speaker 1: the usual crowd stepped into the church, but then a
[25:31] Speaker 1: stranger appeared.
[25:33] Speaker 7: I wore my best suit and I was cleanly shaven
[25:38] Speaker 7: and smelled good. And I walked in and saw Pastor
[25:42] Speaker 7: Tesesano standing at the back.
[25:44] Speaker 10: I went up and shook his hand and I said, hi, Pastor.
[25:47] Speaker 6: I didn't recognize him at all. To me, he looked
[25:50] Speaker 6: like a politician. He was this white guy with a suit,
[25:55] Speaker 6: clean and I shook his hand and he said, pasted her.
[26:00] Speaker 6: My name is Bobby. Can I share testimony? In my
[26:06] Speaker 6: mind was who this politician is trying to come and
[26:12] Speaker 6: seal whatever?
[26:14] Speaker 10: And he looked at me kind of sideways, and he
[26:16] Speaker 10: was like, oh, if there's time.
[26:19] Speaker 1: At the end of the service, Bobby walked to the
[26:21] Speaker 1: front of the church, and that's when the past walked
[26:25] Speaker 1: in with him.
[26:26] Speaker 7: There's a story in the Bible about ten lepers being
[26:29] Speaker 7: healed by Jesus and how only one came back to
[26:33] Speaker 7: present himself as healed.
[26:35] Speaker 6: He said, I came to this church. I was homeless.
[26:38] Speaker 6: I was on drugs and this and that, and he said,
[26:42] Speaker 6: God has delivered me.
[26:45] Speaker 1: Bobby walked through the congregation and pointed to Pastor Testano.
[26:50] Speaker 6: And he said to the congregation. Your pastor gave me
[26:58] Speaker 6: a place to stay. Your pastor gave me foote.
[27:04] Speaker 1: Something in Pastor Tesano shifted. Suddenly, memories of a desperate
[27:10] Speaker 1: and helpless man shuffling into his Sunday service years ago
[27:13] Speaker 1: came flooding.
[27:14] Speaker 6: Back, and when he started saying that I stood up.
[27:20] Speaker 1: He remembered helping Bobby get back on his feet for
[27:24] Speaker 1: one night, just for him to disappear the next morning.
[27:28] Speaker 6: I said, no, they can't be, this can't be, this
[27:34] Speaker 6: can't be the same guy. I was so overwhelmed with jaw.
[27:44] Speaker 6: It was tears of jaw and we breached each other.
[27:49] Speaker 7: It's one of the best things I was ever able
[27:51] Speaker 7: to do since Jermaine. To go back and show them
[27:54] Speaker 7: what they had done for me. Just that little bit
[27:56] Speaker 7: of kindness that they had shown.
[27:57] Speaker 6: Me an inspiration to me and all of us, because
[28:05] Speaker 6: all of us can say we saw him down, but
[28:10] Speaker 6: now we see him up.
[28:12] Speaker 7: I go there every couple months now and say I
[28:14] Speaker 7: and I feel like I'm part of their family. When
[28:16] Speaker 7: I go into that church. There's just some wonderful, wonderful people.
[28:20] Speaker 1: Returning to this church was a full circle moment for Bobby.
[28:24] Speaker 1: A way to reckon with who he once was. Jermaine
[28:28] Speaker 1: says he doesn't like to live in the past. Maybe
[28:32] Speaker 1: that's what helped him survive those two decades in one
[28:35] Speaker 1: of America's harshest prisons.
[28:37] Speaker 4: I don't have time to be dwelling on yester years.
[28:41] Speaker 3: Oh what happened? I ain't don't have time for that.
[28:44] Speaker 3: That's a chapter in my life.
[28:49] Speaker 1: The truth is, Jermaine lost those years. He can't go
[28:52] Speaker 1: back in time to continue raising his daughter, Jemia. Jemia
[28:56] Speaker 1: is now a young woman in twenty twenty five, baby
[29:00] Speaker 1: boy of her own.
[29:01] Speaker 4: He's adorable and he's the light of the house. Honestly,
[29:05] Speaker 4: he brings that joy to our house. Just to see
[29:09] Speaker 4: his smile. That's my little heart right there.
[29:12] Speaker 1: When his grandson laughs in the living room, Jermaine gets
[29:16] Speaker 1: something he thought he'd lost forever, A chance to be present.
[29:21] Speaker 3: You know. He look at me as too, you know,
[29:23] Speaker 3: he said, I'll be trying to correct him.
[29:27] Speaker 4: Pop pop pop P.
[29:31] Speaker 1: Jermaine's life today is downright suburban. It's a long way
[29:35] Speaker 1: from the Fisher Projects. He owns a home where he
[29:38] Speaker 1: greets his neighbors on their front lawns. Sometimes when we
[29:42] Speaker 1: call him he's at the gym with Kristin, where he's
[29:44] Speaker 1: on the floor playing with his grandbaby. He recently went
[29:48] Speaker 1: home for Marti Groft, posting photos of himself and his
[29:51] Speaker 1: oldest friends during the parade. It's obvious that Jermaine is thriving,
[29:57] Speaker 1: not because he's trying to make up for lost time time,
[30:00] Speaker 1: but because he finally has time to live. Sometimes he
[30:04] Speaker 1: still can't believe he made it.
[30:07] Speaker 2: Do you remember the lowest point when you were incarcerated?
[30:10] Speaker 3: Every day was the lowest part, because you don't know
[30:13] Speaker 3: when it's going in.
[30:16] Speaker 4: My worst fear was dying in that place.
[30:22] Speaker 1: Their friendship is something you really have to admire. I
[30:27] Speaker 1: wish they had met under different circumstances because it makes
[30:31] Speaker 1: me feel terrible that Germaine lost twenty two years of
[30:34] Speaker 1: his life. But when you see this friendship, it makes
[30:37] Speaker 1: you challenge your own ideas of what's possible with forgiveness,
[30:42] Speaker 1: what's possible with redemption. It also shows what humanity is
[30:47] Speaker 1: capable of. Okay, Germaine, I know you don't like to
[30:53] Speaker 1: dwell on the past. I can't blame you, and I
[30:56] Speaker 1: don't mean to be all philosophical about this, but when
[31:00] Speaker 1: you put your head on the pillow at night?
[31:02] Speaker 2: What do you think to yourself?
[31:05] Speaker 4: You survived ust, don't you know? No, it wasn't no
[31:09] Speaker 4: easy ride, but your survived us don't and you just
[31:13] Speaker 4: took off.
[31:22] Speaker 1: Thank you for listening. If you're enjoying Burden of Guilt, subscribe,
[31:26] Speaker 1: rate and review the series with five stars yay. It
[31:30] Speaker 1: helps other people find our show. So are you curious
[31:34] Speaker 1: about what the people involved in this look like? Do
[31:38] Speaker 1: you want to hear bonus content? Just check out our
[31:41] Speaker 1: Instagram account at Glass Podcasts, where we recap each episode
[31:46] Speaker 1: with show notes that include people, places, and even court records.
[31:52] Speaker 1: You can reach out to the Burden of Guilt team
[31:54] Speaker 1: at Burden of guiltpod at gmail dot com. That's Burden
[32:01] Speaker 1: of guiltpod at gmail dot com. Burden of Guilt is
[32:05] Speaker 1: a production of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment Group,
[32:09] Speaker 1: in partnership with iHeart Podcasts. The series is executive produced
[32:14] Speaker 1: and hosted by me Nancy Glass, produced by Kerry Hartman,
[32:18] Speaker 1: also produced by Ben Fetterman and Andrea Gunning. Our story
[32:23] Speaker 1: editor is Monique Leboard. This episode was written and associate
[32:28] Speaker 1: produced by Jade Abdul Malik, our production manager, is Kristin Melcurie.
[32:34] Speaker 1: Our iHeart team is Ali Perry and Jessica Crincheck. Audio
[32:39] Speaker 1: editing by Zach Prutteaux, mixed and mastered by Matt Delvecchio.
[32:45] Speaker 1: The Burden of Guilt theme is composed by Oliver Bains.
[32:48] Speaker 1: Music library provided by Mob Music, and we want to
[32:52] Speaker 1: give our special thanks to Jermaine Hudson and Bobby Gumpright.
[32:57] Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app or
[33:02] Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts. To follow the work of the Promise of
[33:05] Speaker 1: Justice initiative, go to promisefjustice dot org, on Instagram and
[33:11] Speaker 1: Twitter at justices Promise, and on Facebook and Blue Sky
[33:16] Speaker 1: at Promise of Justice

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