# 'The Axis of Upheaval': Beth Sanner

An episode of [NatSec Matters](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1711240452), 6 Nov 2024, 57 min.

Audio: https://traffic.libsyn.com/secure/6ef5eecd-b84d-413c-9ce6-9db304c42390/Episode_57_-_Beth_Sanner_FLARE-final_mixdown.mp3?dest-id=4161986

Michael and Andy speak with Beth Sanner, former CIA analyst and Deputy Director of National Intelligence for Mission Integration, about the national security challenges facing the next U.S. president. They explore the complex relationships between Russia, China, Iran, and North Korea, rising tensions in the South China Sea, and the ongoing conflict in Ukraine. They also examine how these geopolitical dynamics impact global stability and discuss the fine line between geopolitical and cyber threats.

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