# Matt Misses Out On His Dream Car, The Futures of Bugatti and Pagani

An episode of [Bloomberg Hot Pursuit!](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1710787142), 7 Nov 2025, 34 min.

Audio: https://podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/4778f66f-5d19-456a-9820-b08f00dfd567/3b381601-be13-434c-b293-b38e012dd89e/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=42336c1a-f7c2-4898-885b-b08f00e0bb66

The podcast welcomes Christoph Piochon of Bugatti and Christopher Pagani of Pagani talking about the state of supercars from the SiriusXM studios at the 2025 Concours at Wynn Las Vegas. Plus, Matt misses out on his dream car, a Porsche 964 America Roadster. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:02] Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News.
[0:09] Speaker 2: I'm Hannah Elliott and I'm Matt Miller. This is Hot Pursuit.
[0:17] Speaker 2: Coming up on today's podcast.
[0:18] Speaker 3: Hannah is back from the world's largest showcase of super cars,
[0:23] Speaker 3: the Concore at the Win in Las Vegas.
[0:26] Speaker 1: Will bring you my exclusive interviews with the President of Bugatti,
[0:30] Speaker 1: Christophe Bioschan and Pegani's own Christopher PEGANI.
[0:34] Speaker 3: Wow to like stratospheric brands, and I'm excited about that,
[0:40] Speaker 3: and I'm really happy that you went there and did that.
[0:43] Speaker 2: But I've been kind of bummed out all week.
[0:49] Speaker 1: I have a feeling that has to do with a cart.
[0:51] Speaker 3: Yes, I mean super depressed that I missed out on
[0:56] Speaker 3: an auction on bring a trailer for or what for
[1:01] Speaker 3: me is like a Grail a Grail car.
[1:04] Speaker 2: Okay, Okay.
[1:05] Speaker 3: So I've been like back on bring a trailer, like
[1:08] Speaker 3: constantly looking at it and I'm seeing a lot of
[1:09] Speaker 3: sweet deals.
[1:10] Speaker 2: Like remember last week we were talking about this Ferrari
[1:13] Speaker 2: three sixty with the six speed, Yes.
[1:15] Speaker 3: And it went for eighty nine thousand, and you know,
[1:18] Speaker 3: low miles, everything in perfect condition, and I thought, damn,
[1:23] Speaker 3: like surprising kind of wish I'd pulled the trigger on that,
[1:25] Speaker 3: but I also like, it's a Ferrari. I don't need
[1:28] Speaker 3: that in my neighborhood really, and I feel like the
[1:32] Speaker 3: maintenance could get out of hand.
[1:33] Speaker 1: Maybe not, But could you also sent me that ff Ferrari?
[1:38] Speaker 3: Yeah, a gorgeous ff in like a dark like a
[1:42] Speaker 3: midnight blue with burgundy leather, also low miles, amazing conditions,
[1:48] Speaker 3: some kind of special edition, and it went for one
[1:50] Speaker 3: hundred and forty.
[1:51] Speaker 1: Six, right, I think I just pulled it up one three.
[1:55] Speaker 2: I mean, that's you're not losing money on that car. No,
[1:58] Speaker 2: it's cool, but again, this is you know, you can't
[2:02] Speaker 2: get that with a manual. And it's cool.
[2:04] Speaker 3: I love it, but I just don't know how my neighbors,
[2:08] Speaker 3: how my wife would react.
[2:09] Speaker 1: You know, she'd probably be excited.
[2:12] Speaker 2: No, she would not be excited.
[2:15] Speaker 3: But you know I've had and she's had a nine
[2:19] Speaker 3: to eleven, so that's in my wheelhouse.
[2:20] Speaker 1: Like this is acceptable.
[2:22] Speaker 3: I think you know it's it's a it's a it's
[2:24] Speaker 3: a car that could be a supercar or just a
[2:27] Speaker 3: very great sports car, depending which model you get. But
[2:30] Speaker 3: Portia is you can pull that off in even a
[2:34] Speaker 3: middle class neighborhood. Sure, and so I've been looking for
[2:39] Speaker 3: a long long time for an older air cooled Portia,
[2:42] Speaker 3: not because I'm all up on the whole like Ted
[2:44] Speaker 3: Gooshu lookka cool. It's like, I don't care, you know,
[2:47] Speaker 3: if it has a radiator or not, but I just
[2:51] Speaker 3: want something that's simple, that's mechanical, that's you know, analog
[2:57] Speaker 3: in every sense of it, even the steering. So I'm
[3:02] Speaker 3: looking at basically nine six four and previous because I
[3:06] Speaker 3: don't like the nine to nine.
[3:07] Speaker 2: To three what they did with the headlights.
[3:10] Speaker 3: So a lot of people consider nine nine to three
[3:12] Speaker 3: like the pinnacle of air cooled porschas it was the
[3:14] Speaker 3: last one. Personally, the style just doesn't do it for me.
[3:17] Speaker 1: Okay, So you're describing basically nine nineties needs to be
[3:22] Speaker 1: nineties for you.
[3:23] Speaker 3: Eighties seventies I'm happy, like with a it would be
[3:26] Speaker 3: cool to get the year of my birth, you know.
[3:29] Speaker 2: But what I also want is the wide body. I
[3:33] Speaker 2: like the flared hips, you know, a body front and back.
[3:38] Speaker 3: And the nine thirty is what you want if you're
[3:41] Speaker 3: you know, if what you're looking for, if you want
[3:43] Speaker 3: that usually right, that's where they really came out with
[3:47] Speaker 3: the first uh Wid.
[3:50] Speaker 2: But that's a turbo. And although a lot of people
[3:52] Speaker 2: love the turbo and.
[3:54] Speaker 3: They say it's hilarious and they like Barry Werholtz loves
[3:57] Speaker 3: the kick, you know when it comes on. I want
[4:01] Speaker 3: like a more linear, controllable torque curve, so I want
[4:05] Speaker 3: a naturally aspirated car, and you can get sometimes like
[4:08] Speaker 3: there's the M four ninety one package on the three
[4:11] Speaker 3: point twos or the WTL on the nine six fours,
[4:14] Speaker 3: which is the I think it was the wide turbo
[4:18] Speaker 3: look or something like that, the factory turbo look with
[4:21] Speaker 3: the naturally aspirated engine. But they're pretty rare, right, You
[4:26] Speaker 3: just don't see them around that much. They're not as
[4:28] Speaker 3: expensive as the nine thirties, but they're just scarce.
[4:32] Speaker 1: So this is leading us to I saw something. You
[4:36] Speaker 1: saw something.
[4:37] Speaker 2: Exactly one of the things Porsia did.
[4:39] Speaker 3: And I also love Cabrio's I know it's not purest,
[4:42] Speaker 3: but I would probably drive the car mostly in the summer.
[4:45] Speaker 2: So it's fun top down.
[4:47] Speaker 3: Yes, Porscha made in the nine to six four generation
[4:51] Speaker 3: and America Roadster, which I don't.
[4:54] Speaker 2: Know the whole history of it.
[4:55] Speaker 3: It was like to commemorate a three point fifty six
[4:58] Speaker 3: or something they did well. And it's the turbo body,
[5:02] Speaker 3: so the wider hips. Yes, it's a convertible and it
[5:06] Speaker 3: has the turbo like the upgraded brakes and everything, but
[5:10] Speaker 3: it has a naturally aspirated motor.
[5:12] Speaker 2: And they're kind of they're few and far between.
[5:15] Speaker 3: They only made like two hundred and fifty of them,
[5:18] Speaker 3: and so you never really see them, or when you do,
[5:20] Speaker 3: they're like two hundred grand and more.
[5:23] Speaker 2: But there was one on Bring a.
[5:24] Speaker 3: Trailer last week that was absolutely beautiful, like almost perfect,
[5:29] Speaker 3: literally a grail car.
[5:31] Speaker 2: Did you see it? I showed it.
[5:32] Speaker 1: I'm looking at it. I went back into our texts
[5:36] Speaker 1: and I pulled it up.
[5:36] Speaker 2: What do you think? What do you think of it?
[5:38] Speaker 1: It's so you it's like the like if I imagine Matt
[5:41] Speaker 1: Miller being happy driving. I see you in this car,
[5:44] Speaker 1: and it's it's cool. It's cool, it's different, it's I
[5:49] Speaker 1: like it. I like it. It's good.
[5:51] Speaker 2: It's just like no frills, everything you need nothing.
[5:55] Speaker 1: This is a Florida car.
[5:56] Speaker 3: Also, you know, like it says roaster on the back
[5:59] Speaker 3: and is that of Carrera something or nine to eleven
[6:02] Speaker 3: or whatever.
[6:02] Speaker 2: It just says roadster.
[6:03] Speaker 1: Yeah it's cool. No, this is very this is cool,
[6:06] Speaker 1: and this says to your point. It says it was
[6:08] Speaker 1: produced to commemorate the fortieth anniversary of the three five
[6:11] Speaker 1: six America. Right, So you got it right, So gotter right.
[6:15] Speaker 2: And I'm looking at this following the auction.
[6:18] Speaker 3: I remember when it was like five days, four days,
[6:21] Speaker 3: three days, and I thought, this thing is going to
[6:24] Speaker 3: go for two fifty because they're just they don't come
[6:27] Speaker 3: around that often. They're so popular right now. And it's
[6:31] Speaker 3: the air cooled obviously, the G fifty manual transmission five speed,
[6:37] Speaker 3: and I just thought, like, why bother. I'm never going
[6:41] Speaker 3: to be able to afford this like fun to watch,
[6:43] Speaker 3: but I didn't watch the last few days of the.
[6:48] Speaker 1: Were you did you hit the little star that says watching, Yes,
[6:51] Speaker 1: you were watching this.
[6:52] Speaker 3: The problem I have is that I hit that star
[6:54] Speaker 3: for too many things, so okay, my boss constantly has those.
[6:59] Speaker 3: And then it at the end went for one hundred
[7:02] Speaker 3: and ten thousand, which is I know, it's a sizable
[7:04] Speaker 3: chunk of change, like it's a fairly large amount of money,
[7:07] Speaker 3: of course, of course, but it's so cheap for this
[7:11] Speaker 3: car and I can't think about anything else. I'm like
[7:14] Speaker 3: preparing for my daily broadcast on Bloomberg Television, and I
[7:19] Speaker 3: should be, you know, reading notes from Rick Reader at
[7:23] Speaker 3: Blackrock on you know, the labor economy, And instead I'm
[7:27] Speaker 3: talking to chat gbt about when am I ever gonna
[7:30] Speaker 3: find an America roadster again for one hundred and ten thousand,
[7:33] Speaker 3: And the chatbot is like, never, you idiot, why didn't
[7:36] Speaker 3: you pull the trigger?
[7:38] Speaker 1: Oh, Matt, I'm sorry. I can only say I'm sorry.
[7:41] Speaker 1: This this is a loss. This is a huge loss.
[7:45] Speaker 1: I don't know what to tell you.
[7:46] Speaker 2: It's killing me. Do we know?
[7:48] Speaker 1: Could you figure out who bought it?
[7:50] Speaker 4: Like?
[7:50] Speaker 1: Do you know? Handle?
[7:52] Speaker 3: I hoped whoever came, whoever won the bid doesn't come
[7:55] Speaker 3: up with the money, because sometimes that happens, you.
[7:57] Speaker 5: Know, the.
[7:59] Speaker 2: Ghosts.
[8:00] Speaker 3: Yeah, but I just I'm gonna probably have to wait
[8:04] Speaker 3: another few years at least until something like this. I
[8:08] Speaker 3: don't need the Cabrio. I'm happy to have. Like I said,
[8:11] Speaker 3: anything with the wide body and an NA motor.
[8:16] Speaker 2: I would take.
[8:16] Speaker 3: And obviously I would take a nine to thirty Turbo
[8:18] Speaker 3: as well, but those are expensive, more expensive, not exactly
[8:22] Speaker 3: what I want.
[8:22] Speaker 1: But this is your white whale any way exactly could
[8:25] Speaker 1: be the one.
[8:26] Speaker 2: That got away had Unfortunately I would have changed that
[8:29] Speaker 2: right away.
[8:30] Speaker 1: That's tricky. Yeah, yeah, all right, well, sorry, I'm sorry
[8:34] Speaker 1: for your loss.
[8:35] Speaker 3: Enough of hard time, enough of my complaining. Coming up,
[8:39] Speaker 3: we've got inside intel on what's next for Bugatti at
[8:43] Speaker 3: a far higher price tag our chat with the president
[8:46] Speaker 3: from the win in Las Vegas right after this.
[8:53] Speaker 1: Welcome back to Hot Pursuit. I'm Hannah Elliott. Now let's
[8:56] Speaker 1: talk about Bugatti. It's the name we all know, and
[9:00] Speaker 1: they're doing very well. I had this great conversation with
[9:05] Speaker 1: Christophe Piachan, the president of Bugatti, who told me their
[9:08] Speaker 1: order books are full until twenty twenty nine.
[9:10] Speaker 3: Which is, by the way, that says something about how
[9:13] Speaker 3: well the rich are doing in this world. The rich
[9:15] Speaker 3: are really doing well. They're just getting richer and richer.
[9:19] Speaker 3: And every day I'm looking at the stock market, which okay,
[9:22] Speaker 3: today was a down week, the first down week in
[9:26] Speaker 3: four but still well over sixty seven hundred on the
[9:29] Speaker 3: S and P. We just had the most bond issuance
[9:32] Speaker 3: in any year of all time, six trillion dollars of
[9:36] Speaker 3: bond issuance and we're not even at the end of
[9:38] Speaker 3: the year.
[9:38] Speaker 2: Elon Musk just got I was just gonna say, a.
[9:41] Speaker 3: Trillion dollar pay package approved and by the way, overwhelmingly
[9:46] Speaker 3: positive the vote. Seventy five percent of shareholders were like, yes,
[9:49] Speaker 3: pay him a trillion dollars.
[9:51] Speaker 1: This does seem like quite a moonshot type company. You know,
[9:54] Speaker 1: I've heard the justifications for it, like we need to
[9:57] Speaker 1: give him very high goals because that how that is
[10:00] Speaker 1: the nature of this company and it always has been.
[10:03] Speaker 1: And obviously he won't receive that payout and unless he
[10:06] Speaker 1: accomplishes these tasks that have been set before him.
[10:09] Speaker 3: Right, he has to make Tesla worth eight and a
[10:11] Speaker 3: half trillion, and that would, to be fair, make a
[10:14] Speaker 3: lot of other people very rich as well, right, I
[10:17] Speaker 3: mean their market cap has to basically go up seven x.
[10:23] Speaker 3: In any case, this is all to say that more
[10:25] Speaker 3: and more people can afford bugattis.
[10:27] Speaker 1: I was just gonna say that exact same thing, Matt.
[10:30] Speaker 1: Let's get to my interview with Christophe Piaschon from Bugatti.
[10:34] Speaker 2: How are you very good?
[10:35] Speaker 1: It's very good and you seem very cool.
[10:37] Speaker 4: It's great to be here in the WIIM in Las
[10:40] Speaker 4: Vegas and seeing so much Bughetti at one.
[10:44] Speaker 1: Place, it's unbelievable. Is it true that this is the
[10:46] Speaker 1: world's largest grouping of Bugattis ever?
[10:50] Speaker 2: Ever?
[10:51] Speaker 4: Believe me, I'm sitting on the source where normally all
[10:55] Speaker 4: Bughettis are produced, and I never saw so much calls
[10:59] Speaker 4: on what spot as I did. Today. We will have
[11:03] Speaker 4: over sixty six modern Bughetti together gethering here in Las Vegas.
[11:08] Speaker 1: And that's the Verrons, the Churon's what we have. Some
[11:10] Speaker 1: turbion's here.
[11:11] Speaker 4: Too, one, two beyond. Mostly this time we are celebrating
[11:16] Speaker 4: the twenty years of viron Okay, And I have to
[11:19] Speaker 4: say it's also a bit emotional for me because I'm
[11:22] Speaker 4: part of this journey since the beginning, let's say, since
[11:27] Speaker 4: two thousand and two, and working since the beginning with
[11:31] Speaker 4: all projects and ideas from Ferdinand Peach and seeing after
[11:36] Speaker 4: twenty years, so much modernka together here in Las Vegas,
[11:41] Speaker 4: it's very emotional.
[11:43] Speaker 1: Okay. So electric engine electric motors versus internal combustion engines,
[11:49] Speaker 1: because this is the big debate, of course. Yeah, what
[11:52] Speaker 1: I hear is that the type of customer and a
[11:55] Speaker 1: sprice point actually does want a combustion engine, and as
[11:59] Speaker 1: asking for it is that also what you're saying.
[12:01] Speaker 4: That was the feedback we received a few years ago
[12:04] Speaker 4: when we started the analyzed as a clinic with our
[12:07] Speaker 4: potential customers or existing customers of Virol. That was a
[12:11] Speaker 4: clear feedback the next generation of Bughetti should have at
[12:16] Speaker 4: least a themic engine and if not fully with a
[12:25] Speaker 4: thermal engine, with maybe hybrid. And that's how came the
[12:29] Speaker 4: idea with the turbion.
[12:31] Speaker 1: Why are they so obsessed with combustion engines.
[12:34] Speaker 4: I think it's a sensation. You don't drive a Bughetti
[12:39] Speaker 4: to as a daily that's something which you use.
[12:43] Speaker 1: We don't know there is few.
[12:44] Speaker 4: Customers which are using it as a daily car, but
[12:48] Speaker 4: they want to have some sensations. They want to have
[12:51] Speaker 4: for sure the acceleration, the feeling of top speed, but
[12:55] Speaker 4: also the sound of the engine. And till now we
[12:59] Speaker 4: have the sixteen, which is very unique for Bugatti with
[13:03] Speaker 4: different stage of power, and now with the complete new
[13:07] Speaker 4: generation we created with the two billyond, we also reveal
[13:10] Speaker 4: a very sensitive and acoustically impressive V sixteen with the
[13:17] Speaker 4: sensation of a natural aspirated engine.
[13:21] Speaker 1: A hybrid is acceptable from your customers. The customers are
[13:25] Speaker 1: telling hybrids are acceptable because they still can tap into Yeah,
[13:29] Speaker 1: is that accurate.
[13:31] Speaker 4: They use I would say we are using the hybrid
[13:35] Speaker 4: as a performance support because we wanted to have a
[13:40] Speaker 4: more emotional car you by having a natural aspirated engine.
[13:45] Speaker 4: But you know the weakness of a natural aspirated engine
[13:48] Speaker 4: is with the low waves, you don't have the talque.
[13:51] Speaker 4: And now with the combination with the eight hundred horsepower
[13:55] Speaker 4: electric plus one thousand horse power termic, that's really a
[13:59] Speaker 4: game chain.
[14:00] Speaker 1: You know. What I think is really interesting is we're
[14:03] Speaker 1: not just talking about pure speed, because we know that
[14:06] Speaker 1: electric technology can get us super fast speeds really quickly instantly.
[14:11] Speaker 1: But what you're describing is not just about speed. It's
[14:15] Speaker 1: a combination of some sort of tactile experience.
[14:18] Speaker 4: Because how many how are often our driving over customers
[14:23] Speaker 4: overphoned kilometers powers very few times And last time we
[14:27] Speaker 4: organized an event like CES, it was in Captainaverras drove
[14:32] Speaker 4: them their own car on the landing place from the
[14:35] Speaker 4: space shuttle. But most of the time they are using
[14:39] Speaker 4: it on the highway or by curvy roads in the mountains.
[14:44] Speaker 4: And then you need to enjoy the acceleration, the talk
[14:48] Speaker 4: and the sensation of a nice engine in the back
[14:52] Speaker 4: of you. And this is really what we want to
[14:55] Speaker 4: trigger that we also want to have such kind of
[14:59] Speaker 4: expression and feeling of acceleration. But not only is the
[15:03] Speaker 4: pure acceleration of the which you could get with an
[15:05] Speaker 4: electrical but also with the sound which is according sure.
[15:09] Speaker 1: Of course, Now let's talk about a manual transmission. See
[15:13] Speaker 1: it goes hand in hand with the conversation with the
[15:15] Speaker 1: combustion engine, because I often hear people say, oh, I'd
[15:18] Speaker 1: love to get a manual whatever Aston Martin or PEGANI like,
[15:22] Speaker 1: we just were talking whether or not that actually they
[15:25] Speaker 1: actually would purchase it. Everyone says they want it.
[15:28] Speaker 4: Yeah.
[15:29] Speaker 1: Do you hear that from your customers as well? And
[15:31] Speaker 1: would you ever consider it?
[15:34] Speaker 4: We heard about it, Yeah, we are looking also at
[15:37] Speaker 4: it what it should be. But don't forget that twenty
[15:41] Speaker 4: years ago when we introduced the Viral with the first
[15:45] Speaker 4: dupper clutch system with an hypercal which and I have
[15:48] Speaker 4: to say the Viral was the first hypercal at all
[15:52] Speaker 4: and it was really the creation of a new segment
[15:56] Speaker 4: and the first days drive we had and I was
[15:59] Speaker 4: the one which was organizing the test drive and making
[16:02] Speaker 4: it myself. Also with customers. They were impressed or smooth,
[16:07] Speaker 4: and how easy it is to drive, because it's not
[16:12] Speaker 4: so common to have over one thousand horse but were available,
[16:16] Speaker 4: but to have it easy to drive. This is really
[16:20] Speaker 4: the queue, yes, and that's what we manage with the
[16:24] Speaker 4: ven which for me is fitting to the philosophy which
[16:28] Speaker 4: we have that we have a luxury car which is
[16:31] Speaker 4: also the fastest one, but easy to drive.
[16:35] Speaker 1: And so it sounds like even if customers say we
[16:39] Speaker 1: really want it, you know.
[16:41] Speaker 4: The manual gear is something more demanding for the driver. Yes,
[16:45] Speaker 4: it's requesting a lot of more experience in art of driving,
[16:50] Speaker 4: and that could be for some of our customers very
[16:54] Speaker 4: interesting and maybe we'll look at that in the future.
[16:58] Speaker 4: But first of all, to satisfy ninety nine percent of
[17:02] Speaker 4: our customers, which are happy with the Butler system.
[17:05] Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, I want to ask about speed records. Obviously
[17:10] Speaker 1: Bugatti has held some wonderful land speed record titles in
[17:14] Speaker 1: the past. Do you also anticipate you will continue to
[17:18] Speaker 1: chase those in the future.
[17:21] Speaker 4: The focus for me is more the liability, and yes,
[17:25] Speaker 4: speed is important. Speed we will focus on. We have
[17:29] Speaker 4: for sure seen what happens with the Chinese electric car
[17:32] Speaker 4: which broke our record. Best respect for that, but we
[17:36] Speaker 4: still have was the record with.
[17:38] Speaker 2: The ic eng Yes, of course.
[17:40] Speaker 1: And I have to imagine it does matter to your customers.
[17:43] Speaker 1: That is something that attracts them.
[17:45] Speaker 2: Yes, And is that.
[17:46] Speaker 4: Yes, it's true, Yes, because it's a bit the quartet
[17:49] Speaker 4: you know, my host my car. Yes, and that's the
[17:52] Speaker 4: fastest one, that joker which you have in your in
[17:54] Speaker 4: your cards and anyway if you are driving on the road,
[18:00] Speaker 4: you know I can be the fastest one. Yeah.
[18:03] Speaker 1: Okay. Finally, I just want to ask you, you know,
[18:05] Speaker 1: for your take on where we are right now in
[18:07] Speaker 1: an industry. Obviously it's a really chaotic and difficult, challenging time.
[18:13] Speaker 1: Every automaker is trying to figure out how best to
[18:16] Speaker 1: navigate tariffs and the economy and everything that's happening. How
[18:21] Speaker 1: are you feeling about Bugatti in this moment and what
[18:24] Speaker 1: is your strategy moving forward?
[18:26] Speaker 4: I have to say we are today in a very
[18:28] Speaker 4: comfortable situation because we are sold out till twenty twenty nine.
[18:33] Speaker 4: The two hundred and fifty two are sold out. Means
[18:37] Speaker 4: that our my best of my task is to deliver
[18:42] Speaker 4: these cars to the loyal customers which give their give
[18:46] Speaker 4: us the confidence and confidence for their engagement, and I
[18:53] Speaker 4: really see a bright future for the brand. What we
[18:56] Speaker 4: have seen is at the beginning we create with the viron,
[19:01] Speaker 4: the hypercer market was ready the first one the Verron,
[19:05] Speaker 4: and every time we are making the top of the
[19:09] Speaker 4: pyramid of the hyperc always sharper. And that's what we
[19:15] Speaker 4: also did now with the Soliday program to ready make
[19:17] Speaker 4: make it like an illow. And I think in the
[19:20] Speaker 4: future it will be always more demanding. But if we
[19:26] Speaker 4: continue on the way we are today with over reaching
[19:32] Speaker 4: the expectation of our customers, I already see a bright
[19:36] Speaker 4: future for the.
[19:37] Speaker 2: Brand coming up.
[19:38] Speaker 3: If you thought that was cool, just wait because there's more.
[19:42] Speaker 3: We hear from Christopher Pegani of the Pagani Automobile brand. Next,
[19:46] Speaker 3: this is high Pursuit from Bloomberg Radio. Kenny, you really
[19:57] Speaker 3: flex to your muscle down at the the Win Concor,
[20:01] Speaker 3: the Las Vegas Concor.
[20:03] Speaker 2: What is the official name? What do they call that, Matt?
[20:05] Speaker 1: The official name is the Concor at Win Las Vegas,
[20:09] Speaker 1: but colloquially we just call it the Las Vegas Concor.
[20:11] Speaker 3: All right, So in any case, a huge gathering of
[20:15] Speaker 3: bugattis more supercars than have ever gotten together anywhere else.
[20:19] Speaker 3: I'm guessing in the country, and that means there were
[20:23] Speaker 3: a lot of Paganis as well, and even rarer Mark Hannah,
[20:28] Speaker 3: what did Christopher Pegani tell you?
[20:31] Speaker 2: He's what, he's Horatio's son, right.
[20:33] Speaker 1: That's right, Christopher's Horatio's son. He is the head of
[20:36] Speaker 1: marketing for Pegani, but his role is really bigger than that. Obviously,
[20:40] Speaker 1: he's aired at the throne and he actually acts as
[20:43] Speaker 1: as really the translator and communicator for his father. Horatio
[20:48] Speaker 1: speaks Spanish and Italian, He's not he doesn't really conduct
[20:52] Speaker 1: interviews in English. So really Christopher is the mouth of
[20:57] Speaker 1: the company. Chris, thank you for joining us. So nice
[21:00] Speaker 1: to see you.
[21:00] Speaker 5: Thanks for having.
[21:01] Speaker 1: Me this is you were just telling me the first
[21:04] Speaker 1: time that you've been to the Concord in Vegas. Can
[21:07] Speaker 1: you tell me just a little bit about why this year,
[21:09] Speaker 1: what was so compelling for you to come, and then
[21:12] Speaker 1: tell us a little bit about the crazy amount of
[21:15] Speaker 1: cars that you have here on the field. It's kind
[21:17] Speaker 1: of mind boggling.
[21:18] Speaker 5: Yeah. I've been coming to Vegas a few times in
[21:22] Speaker 5: the past, and the I think the car culture became
[21:27] Speaker 5: bigger and bigger here and also we have some nice
[21:31] Speaker 5: customers in this area, and when we discussed internally to
[21:36] Speaker 5: come and do the event at the concourse, we we
[21:39] Speaker 5: thought it was a great match with what we do.
[21:43] Speaker 5: The timing is great for us as well, and it's
[21:47] Speaker 5: kind of a special year because we are doing for
[21:51] Speaker 5: the first time. We're showing the Waira ko Da Lunga
[21:53] Speaker 5: spezz there.
[21:54] Speaker 1: I'm glad you said it and not me to get.
[21:57] Speaker 5: That would be the first time we'll show it at
[22:01] Speaker 5: a car event. We did a small unveiling in Italy
[22:05] Speaker 5: for our customers, but it was a private event and
[22:09] Speaker 5: this is the first time we take it to a
[22:11] Speaker 5: public event, so it will be pretty crazy. I was
[22:15] Speaker 5: talking to the team here in America and they told
[22:18] Speaker 5: me there are more than forty paganis between Zonda wires
[22:23] Speaker 5: and utopias, so it will be pretty special. We get
[22:27] Speaker 5: a great attachment to the cars, so when we see
[22:32] Speaker 5: them back, it's like we remember when we produced it
[22:35] Speaker 5: and the relationship with the customer. So some of the
[22:40] Speaker 5: cars we haven't seen in a while. It will be
[22:42] Speaker 5: nice to see them again.
[22:43] Speaker 1: Now. Is it true that Pegani has made around six
[22:46] Speaker 1: hundred cars total in all of your existence since your
[22:49] Speaker 1: father founded the company in nineteen ninety one. Is that accurate?
[22:53] Speaker 5: So it's a it's a mix of Zonda wires and utopias. Yes,
[22:59] Speaker 5: it's a very small number. The first car was presented
[23:05] Speaker 5: in nineteen ninety nine. It took a while to do
[23:08] Speaker 5: the first car. So he did the final drawings of
[23:12] Speaker 5: the zone the back in nineteen ninety two and it
[23:14] Speaker 5: took him seven years to build first the first car.
[23:19] Speaker 5: So after that we did small production five ten cars
[23:25] Speaker 5: a year, and up until now we are capable of
[23:28] Speaker 5: doing roughly sixty cars a year. So the company in
[23:33] Speaker 5: the last twenty five plus years has been able to
[23:37] Speaker 5: increase a little bit production worldwide.
[23:40] Speaker 1: I want to get to the news about the Speedster,
[23:42] Speaker 1: the car that you're going to show us this weekend.
[23:46] Speaker 1: Can you tell us just a little bit about why
[23:48] Speaker 1: it was so critical to build it now on a
[23:53] Speaker 1: market where we're seeing in a way so many supercars
[23:58] Speaker 1: in general, what makes the Speitzterer really special, especially to
[24:02] Speaker 1: your consumers and owners.
[24:05] Speaker 5: So speedz the let's say the Coda Lunga project has
[24:11] Speaker 5: let's say two cars, so you have the Code Lunga
[24:13] Speaker 5: coup and then the Speedzer we just came out a
[24:16] Speaker 5: few months ago. The Coda Lunga was celebrating Corda lunga
[24:21] Speaker 5: means long tail in Italian and the Coda Lunga is
[24:25] Speaker 5: celebrating the essence of cars in the sixties and seventies
[24:29] Speaker 5: where they had to have like a longer shape to
[24:31] Speaker 5: be aerodynamics. Now you don't need that anymore. But because
[24:35] Speaker 5: they are aerodynamical studies did the big steps into the
[24:40] Speaker 5: how the air flows into the car. But the speeds
[24:43] Speaker 5: there was more of an inspiration that came from Porsche. Oh,
[24:51] Speaker 5: my father is a big he loves Mercedes bands, of course,
[24:56] Speaker 5: but the team Porsche for him is a big long
[25:00] Speaker 5: of his childhood. And he has an apartment in Milan
[25:04] Speaker 5: where he goes every week and there is always a
[25:08] Speaker 5: car meet that is just around around the corner from
[25:12] Speaker 5: his house every Sunday, and he sees from his balcony
[25:16] Speaker 5: he sees the cars leaving from the from the car
[25:19] Speaker 5: show and he saw this Porsche three fifty six Spitzter
[25:25] Speaker 5: and he sees the design, the shape of how how
[25:29] Speaker 5: the car looks like and he said, I need to
[25:33] Speaker 5: do something on a coda lunga that has an inspiration
[25:37] Speaker 5: to that car, and it took a few months to
[25:41] Speaker 5: and then he just got back home, spoke to the
[25:44] Speaker 5: designers about the idea and then they worked hard. They
[25:47] Speaker 5: created this and this is how the car came out.
[25:51] Speaker 1: Wow, and what has the response been from your customers?
[25:56] Speaker 2: There's a wait list, say no more.
[25:59] Speaker 5: Luckily, every time there's a project, we call it Grandi complication,
[26:05] Speaker 5: which is grand complication comes from the watch industry. So
[26:10] Speaker 5: it's a one off cars, few off cars, limited edition cars.
[26:17] Speaker 5: There's a lot of interest. Not every Paganic customer can
[26:20] Speaker 5: approach those cars, but so far the reception has been
[26:25] Speaker 5: pretty good. They only saw photos the only that's the
[26:28] Speaker 5: first time they will see the car.
[26:31] Speaker 1: So let's talk under the hood. I'm V twelve combustion engine. Yes,
[26:37] Speaker 1: talk to me about the conversations that you have internally
[26:41] Speaker 1: about continuing combustion engines when so many people are experimenting
[26:46] Speaker 1: with hybrid or electric technology.
[26:50] Speaker 5: So when we had to think of a new car
[26:55] Speaker 5: from the WIRA, so it was the right time as
[26:58] Speaker 5: a life cycle to think about the new car that
[27:00] Speaker 5: was the Utopia. We have a great dialogue with our customers.
[27:07] Speaker 5: We talked to them and we try to engage with
[27:10] Speaker 5: them and understand what they like.
[27:12] Speaker 1: They feel, they can give you honest feedback.
[27:15] Speaker 5: Yeah, and there's full transparency. There's there's a lot of
[27:18] Speaker 5: back and forth. Probably because we're a small company. We
[27:22] Speaker 5: can still have this human interface which is very important.
[27:26] Speaker 5: And and so they they they gave us a lot
[27:31] Speaker 5: of feedbacks on what they really wanted on the future
[27:34] Speaker 5: cars and that the answers were V twelve. You gotta
[27:38] Speaker 5: stick with the V twelve and not not do V
[27:42] Speaker 5: eight or others. Lightweight, so it has to still be
[27:46] Speaker 5: a lightweight car. We want the manual transmission back, so
[27:51] Speaker 5: that was a big challenge, which on the longa speech
[27:55] Speaker 5: there you find it also and no hybrids why because
[28:02] Speaker 5: of pure analog driving.
[28:05] Speaker 1: This is what you were hearing driver.
[28:07] Speaker 5: In the center. So less complications in terms of a
[28:13] Speaker 5: powertrain that has a hybrid solution is always more complicated
[28:18] Speaker 5: than a full electric or a full both you have
[28:24] Speaker 5: both have to engage with each other. And the Autopia
[28:29] Speaker 5: was actually born to be produced in two ways, so
[28:36] Speaker 5: the full V twelve no hybrid and a full electric
[28:39] Speaker 5: car platform. And after six seven years of development, we
[28:47] Speaker 5: have a team that works on the V cars and
[28:50] Speaker 5: my dad is a big enthusiast. Also on on on
[28:54] Speaker 5: let's say new projects and a V car is is exciting. Yes,
[29:00] Speaker 5: it's a thing you got to study, you have to
[29:04] Speaker 5: talk to the suppliers and you have to you have
[29:06] Speaker 5: to really think in a different way. And challenges for
[29:10] Speaker 5: him are accepted. There's always a when you when you
[29:13] Speaker 5: can make a step forward. It is always fun. We
[29:17] Speaker 5: were ready to find out the solution on the engineering
[29:23] Speaker 5: part of the EV car. We did a roundtable with
[29:27] Speaker 5: the other dealers worldwide, and none of the customers wanted
[29:31] Speaker 5: any V car, so they said, let's stick with the
[29:35] Speaker 5: V twelve.
[29:36] Speaker 1: You mentioned that a manual transmission is more difficult. Yeah,
[29:40] Speaker 1: can you tell me what you mean by that? What
[29:43] Speaker 1: do you mean by do you mean engineering wise or
[29:45] Speaker 1: do you mean more difficult to make money on.
[29:48] Speaker 5: It's engineer's Let's say, creating an analog car in twenty
[29:54] Speaker 5: twenty five is much more difficult than making it fifteen
[29:57] Speaker 5: years ago, because fifteen years ago you have all the
[30:01] Speaker 5: supply chain to still make gearbox, clutch things that can
[30:07] Speaker 5: be fitted to your car. So or the development of
[30:11] Speaker 5: the gearbox itself, the synchronizers with the car that has
[30:15] Speaker 5: more than a thousand rp neutral meters of torque. It's
[30:22] Speaker 5: it's a challenge because the drive ability of it needs
[30:26] Speaker 5: to be enjoyable on a you know, on a slow.
[30:31] Speaker 1: Pace for someone who is not a professional.
[30:33] Speaker 5: No, but in general our cars they need to be
[30:36] Speaker 5: enjoyed at slow speed and also at fast driving fast.
[30:40] Speaker 5: And the amount of kilometers that you have to put
[30:46] Speaker 5: all your prototypes on on a solution like that, it's
[30:49] Speaker 5: again is a big challenge, but we accept it because
[30:54] Speaker 5: we believe customers are paid back by the decision.
[30:58] Speaker 1: Now, I really have to say I missed having you
[31:02] Speaker 1: sitting across from me on the desk at this show.
[31:04] Speaker 1: It was a very interesting show. It's you know, it's
[31:08] Speaker 1: not on the premier level of Pebble Beach or Amelia
[31:12] Speaker 1: Island yet, But I have to say this Las Vegas
[31:15] Speaker 1: concour is I predict going to only get bigger.
[31:18] Speaker 3: Well, I'm hopefully one day I'll be able to go
[31:22] Speaker 3: and we'll get you West. I'm a little bit jealous
[31:24] Speaker 3: because Pegani's are some of my favorite vehicles. I've actually
[31:28] Speaker 3: been to the factory on numerous occasions.
[31:32] Speaker 2: Cool. What was it like?
[31:35] Speaker 3: It's it's it's like one big room in which they're
[31:39] Speaker 3: building you know, only two or three vehicles at a time,
[31:43] Speaker 3: but you get to see sort of every aspect of
[31:45] Speaker 3: what they do, and you get a tour with the
[31:47] Speaker 3: whole history of Horatio, you know, starting or becoming chief
[31:51] Speaker 3: engineer at Lamborghini and then he was the only guy
[31:55] Speaker 3: who thought they should get an autoclave for carbon fiber
[31:58] Speaker 3: so and Lamba was like, now we don't need to
[31:59] Speaker 3: in that, and so he bought it himself and then
[32:01] Speaker 3: did all of their work and he still does a
[32:03] Speaker 3: ton of their work.
[32:04] Speaker 2: So it's just a really cool place.
[32:06] Speaker 3: And I love the you know, the precision CNC, custom
[32:13] Speaker 3: made cuts of each individual piece, and obviously I'm a
[32:17] Speaker 3: big fan of the twelve cylinder motor. And it's just artistry.
[32:21] Speaker 3: It's just honestly, it's craftsmanship.
[32:24] Speaker 1: It really is, and it's so apparent. And you know,
[32:28] Speaker 1: these cars are polarizing. Some people don't like them. They
[32:32] Speaker 1: think they're too flashy, they're too whatever. But the people
[32:37] Speaker 1: who do love them really see them as a celebration
[32:40] Speaker 1: of this exact craftsmanship that you're describing, the celebration of
[32:44] Speaker 1: these in a way very rare human driven practices and
[32:53] Speaker 1: I just think that's so cool. These are not cookie
[32:56] Speaker 1: cutter cars. These are truly handbuilt works of art.
[33:01] Speaker 2: All right, Well, that does it for this week's show.
[33:03] Speaker 3: Remember to follow and subscribe to Hot Pursuit on Apple, Spotify,
[33:07] Speaker 3: and anywhere else you listen. You can also send us
[33:09] Speaker 3: your comments email us at hot Pursuit at bloomberg dot net, and.
[33:13] Speaker 1: You can check out my columns and stories on Bloomberg
[33:16] Speaker 1: dot com and the Bloomberg Business App. You can go
[33:19] Speaker 1: there for car reviews, events and stories that you won't
[33:22] Speaker 1: find anywhere else. Find it all on Bloomberg dot com,
[33:27] Speaker 1: slash Pursuits, slash Autos. I'm Hannah Elliott.
[33:30] Speaker 2: And I'm Matt Miller.
[33:31] Speaker 3: We'll be back with a fresh podcast in your feed
[33:34] Speaker 3: next Friday.

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