# Test Driving Porsche Taycan EV, GM Driverless Cars, Defending Used Rolls-Royce

An episode of [Bloomberg Hot Pursuit!](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1710787142), 24 Oct 2025, 37 min.

Audio: https://podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/4778f66f-5d19-456a-9820-b08f00dfd567/b9ba9242-8bf4-4478-8dc2-b3800117de68/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=42336c1a-f7c2-4898-885b-b08f00e0bb66

Bloomberg Detroit Bureau Chief David Welch joins the show to talk about General Motors, which is getting back into self-driving. Plus Matt drives the Porsche Taycan EV and Hannah once again defends her classic Rolls-Royce obsession. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:02] Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News.
[0:09] Speaker 2: I'm Hannah Elliott and I'm Matt Miller, and this is
[0:12] Speaker 2: Hot Pursuit. Coming up on today's podcast. General Motors announces
[0:20] Speaker 2: plans to get back in the self driving car market
[0:23] Speaker 2: as it sells a lot more expensive gas trucks.
[0:26] Speaker 3: And I've got a new piece out about the defense
[0:30] Speaker 3: of driving old Rolls Royces. This is part of a
[0:33] Speaker 3: new series we're doing on why the classic Rolls Royce
[0:37] Speaker 3: deserves more respect.
[0:39] Speaker 2: Very very cool. All right, We're going to get to
[0:41] Speaker 2: both of those topics shortly, but first I want to
[0:44] Speaker 2: start with what is and this may surprise some people. Yes,
[0:48] Speaker 2: my first time ever driving an electric p car. I
[0:51] Speaker 2: got behind the wheel of a Portie Tacon. It's the
[0:55] Speaker 2: GTS version of the station wagon shaped model, and it's
[1:02] Speaker 2: the first and only time I've ever driven an electric Porsche.
[1:06] Speaker 3: I'm shocked.
[1:07] Speaker 2: I know, why does it take it this long? I
[1:09] Speaker 2: don't know. Just try not to I didn't try not to, no,
[1:13] Speaker 2: And I am kind of on the fence here, I
[1:19] Speaker 2: have to say in terms of just my first impressions,
[1:21] Speaker 2: it's only been a couple of days. I've been commuting
[1:25] Speaker 2: back and forth to work in it, and I took
[1:27] Speaker 2: it also on a rip upstate around Bear Mountain. It
[1:31] Speaker 2: is very, very quick.
[1:33] Speaker 3: Well we expected nothing less. Yeah, I'm curious when you
[1:37] Speaker 3: say you're on the fence, is that aesthetically or performance wise? No?
[1:41] Speaker 2: So aesthetically it's gorgeous. I mean, I absolutely love the
[1:45] Speaker 2: way it looks, and I don't think many people disagree
[1:49] Speaker 2: with me really, even like the shooting brake version is
[1:56] Speaker 2: I mean Chef's kiss Like, I think it's it's amazing, sure,
[2:01] Speaker 2: and I you know, the interior I think wins me
[2:04] Speaker 2: over as well. Like as soon as I got in it,
[2:07] Speaker 2: it had actually the the PCM turned off, So the
[2:11] Speaker 2: first time I drove it with no music or anything,
[2:14] Speaker 2: no NAV, the screens were dark and I just thought,
[2:18] Speaker 2: what a sweet look. And even when I turned them on,
[2:20] Speaker 2: they're not so intrusive. It's not like too many screens
[2:23] Speaker 2: that overloads you. So esthetically, I think it's amazing. Do
[2:26] Speaker 2: you know people have a problem with that?
[2:29] Speaker 3: Yes? Me, I mean, you know, I'll just start at
[2:33] Speaker 3: the top. I don't hate it, but to me, it
[2:37] Speaker 3: just looks like they took a nine to eleven and
[2:39] Speaker 3: stretched it out, which is kind of kind of a
[2:43] Speaker 3: perversion of a beautiful thing.
[2:45] Speaker 2: Huh.
[2:46] Speaker 3: So that's my quibble. I would say, does it look
[2:49] Speaker 3: better than a Tesla Modelsue, of course, that's probably one
[2:52] Speaker 3: of the least good looking cars I've ever seen.
[2:55] Speaker 2: Wow, I disagree with you on that as well.
[2:57] Speaker 1: I'm not Modeless is beautiful, but it's timeless, sir.
[3:03] Speaker 3: It's an appliance that was made by a creation.
[3:07] Speaker 2: It's a device, not a machine.
[3:09] Speaker 3: It's exactly this was. There is no way that the
[3:14] Speaker 3: Tesla Modeless or even the Tacan would have come out
[3:18] Speaker 3: of France or Italy. Let me put it this way,
[3:20] Speaker 3: the two centers of beauty in the world, the two
[3:23] Speaker 3: countries most responsible for beauty in the world, would never
[3:27] Speaker 3: have created these cars.
[3:28] Speaker 2: Well, if it is a nine to eleven stretched out,
[3:31] Speaker 2: I don't have a problem with that, because I love
[3:32] Speaker 2: the nine to eleven I feel like it is. I
[3:34] Speaker 2: don't see that I don't think they stretched it out
[3:37] Speaker 2: far enough because one of my one of the main
[3:40] Speaker 2: problems I have with this car is that the B
[3:43] Speaker 2: pillar is completely in the way of getting in and
[3:47] Speaker 2: out of it. I don't know why I have to
[3:49] Speaker 2: slink around the B pillar to get in and the car,
[3:52] Speaker 2: by the way, I want to see you. As soon
[3:54] Speaker 2: as you approach it or open the door, it jumps
[3:57] Speaker 2: up on its air suspension, which is a really cool trick.
[4:00] Speaker 3: Yeah, I like I do admit that I like it.
[4:02] Speaker 2: But then the B pillar is like substantially in the way.
[4:06] Speaker 2: I think it's beautiful. I think it looks just futuristic
[4:10] Speaker 2: enough while still maintaining like elegant lines and a classic look.
[4:15] Speaker 2: It's not too much, it's not over designed. And then
[4:19] Speaker 2: driving it is so driving it's amazing, right, It's so quick,
[4:25] Speaker 2: it's so easy to place it where you want it.
[4:28] Speaker 2: And for commuting, especially in New York, it's so perfect
[4:31] Speaker 2: because you need to jet in and out of these spots.
[4:34] Speaker 2: When a spot opens up and a lane next to
[4:37] Speaker 2: you, you need to get in and then get out.
[4:39] Speaker 3: This is totally true.
[4:40] Speaker 2: I had today my record fastest commute from Scarsdale to Bloomberg.
[4:45] Speaker 2: I made it in twenty seven minutes door to door.
[4:47] Speaker 3: Wow, at what time of day?
[4:50] Speaker 2: It was five thirty seven when I left, so it
[4:53] Speaker 2: wasn't in the New York traffic. That's not terribly early, sure,
[4:58] Speaker 2: because it's already after the congestion. Uh charge starts so,
[5:01] Speaker 2: but yeah, so I love driving it as well. My
[5:06] Speaker 2: biggest problem with it is I'm sitting there and feeling
[5:10] Speaker 2: very like, very much like I'm in a Porsche, you know,
[5:14] Speaker 2: and then thinking like, wow, I could be in a
[5:16] Speaker 2: nine to eleven though, yes, for sure I could be
[5:20] Speaker 2: hearing that flat six whale.
[5:22] Speaker 3: Yes, And I will say I don't think Porsche would
[5:26] Speaker 3: have produced a vehicle that wasn't incredible to drive. They
[5:32] Speaker 3: just won't let it out of the factory. And I
[5:33] Speaker 3: do give them a lot of props for that. I
[5:37] Speaker 3: and I remember, you know, this car debut in twenty nineteen,
[5:41] Speaker 3: which is one hundred years ago in car years, and
[5:44] Speaker 3: was at Niagara Falls, and then everyone agreed drove amazing
[5:51] Speaker 3: very expensive. I think the first models were maybe one
[5:55] Speaker 3: hundred and eighty five thousand dollars for the turbos, one
[5:58] Speaker 3: hundred and fifty for the the just the turbo. That's
[6:04] Speaker 3: very expensive, and since then the values have really dropped.
[6:08] Speaker 3: My problems with this car are not driving related, is
[6:11] Speaker 3: what I'm trying to say. There are other problems with it,
[6:15] Speaker 3: like very chronicled and reported on recalls and reliability issues.
[6:22] Speaker 2: To be honest, well, this solids.
[6:25] Speaker 3: And failing aftermarket values too, which you can get one
[6:30] Speaker 3: for pretty cheap.
[6:30] Speaker 2: That's a market, you know what. That's interesting. So it
[6:33] Speaker 2: had me instantly thinking about and scouring the classified ads
[6:38] Speaker 2: for a cheaper one because it is an amazing way
[6:41] Speaker 2: to commute, and if you're weaving in what is essentially
[6:45] Speaker 2: bumper to bumper traffic, there's nothing better than an electric propulsion, right,
[6:49] Speaker 2: because you have instant torque. But the thing is, the
[6:54] Speaker 2: whole time I'm driving it, I'm thinking about Porsche because
[6:57] Speaker 2: I'm in a Porsche, yes, and then I'm thinking about
[6:59] Speaker 2: nine eleven, and yes, obviously that's better, you know, yes?
[7:06] Speaker 3: And also why have we not talked about the Panama.
[7:10] Speaker 3: The other thing with the tie can is it kind
[7:14] Speaker 3: of cannibalized the Panama and made that disappear from consciousness.
[7:21] Speaker 3: But the Panamara still at this point exists. Y, But
[7:26] Speaker 3: I'd rather have I think I would rather have a
[7:28] Speaker 3: tie can than a Panamer, right, And for me, I'd
[7:32] Speaker 3: rather have a tie can than a boxter.
[7:35] Speaker 2: As well, because okay, of my own personal issues with the.
[7:41] Speaker 3: Lack like a seven eighteen.
[7:42] Speaker 2: Yeah, it just doesn't seem to have enough power to me.
[7:47] Speaker 2: It's more of a momentum car, as people say, right,
[7:49] Speaker 2: and I don't I want, you know, the brute force.
[7:53] Speaker 3: Yes, I just keep going back to the fact that
[7:57] Speaker 3: I've talked to so many people who agree with us
[7:59] Speaker 3: and say the performance is incredible, and they agree with
[8:02] Speaker 3: you when they say they like how it looks, but
[8:05] Speaker 3: that they've had legitimate and reoccurring reliability issues on these cars.
[8:11] Speaker 3: And let's be honest, the whole electrification of Portia has
[8:17] Speaker 3: been a big challenge and has caused the company a
[8:20] Speaker 3: lot of failure. I mean financially, in business wise. I mean.
[8:27] Speaker 2: My thoughts when driving this are the same as when
[8:29] Speaker 2: I drive any electric car that I really like, especially
[8:33] Speaker 2: if I really like the esthetics and the interior, which
[8:36] Speaker 2: are important to me. My first thought is could I
[8:40] Speaker 2: keep this car forever? Right Like I'm going to keep
[8:42] Speaker 2: my Dodge Challenger forever because it meets every need that
[8:47] Speaker 2: I have for that kind of tool, and it's never
[8:51] Speaker 2: going to be obsolete, like even if they come out
[8:55] Speaker 2: with a four twenty seven or a four to twenty
[8:58] Speaker 2: six motor and still stroke and bore mine out to that.
[9:02] Speaker 2: So whenever I drive an electric car, I'm always thinking,
[9:04] Speaker 2: if I keep this forever, and battery technology improves by
[9:08] Speaker 2: leaps and bounds, will I be able to swap out
[9:11] Speaker 2: the battery? And the answer, inevitably for almost all electric
[9:14] Speaker 2: cars is no, You're always going to be stuck with
[9:17] Speaker 2: It's not like an IC car where you can swap
[9:19] Speaker 2: out a motor, right, You're always going to be stuck
[9:22] Speaker 2: with the battery that you have because it's part of
[9:25] Speaker 2: the skateboard or the way it's built into the car.
[9:27] Speaker 2: It just can't be switched. And that's I think a
[9:30] Speaker 2: failing of electric cars.
[9:32] Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree, you know, I would. We often talk
[9:36] Speaker 3: about Chris Bryant in his columns, and he wrote a
[9:39] Speaker 3: column last year that the headline was secondhand evs are
[9:45] Speaker 3: starting to look like a bargain, which is kind of
[9:47] Speaker 3: what you're alluding to.
[9:49] Speaker 2: I think, yeah, for sure. No, I mean we've talked about.
[9:51] Speaker 3: That before it and we have talked about it again.
[9:54] Speaker 3: For me, I'm a little bit gun shy because I'm
[9:58] Speaker 3: too used to how my my phone battery has degraded
[10:01] Speaker 3: over the years, and I still feel like that will
[10:04] Speaker 3: happen to my car battery. So even if you swap
[10:09] Speaker 3: out the whole battery, which to me, seems like it's
[10:13] Speaker 3: an expensive proposition to begin with. I just don't know
[10:16] Speaker 3: if there's enough left for me to want in a
[10:19] Speaker 3: used car.
[10:20] Speaker 2: Let's leave it with the famous quote that was attributed
[10:24] Speaker 2: to Walter Rural, the great the driver, the great rally
[10:30] Speaker 2: driver whose name is so difficult for Americans to pronounce.
[10:33] Speaker 3: Yes, apparently.
[10:36] Speaker 2: Now I'm not sure if this is true, but back
[10:39] Speaker 2: in twenty nineteen when this came out, Oh, I know
[10:41] Speaker 2: what you're gonna say, he apparently had worked on this car,
[10:43] Speaker 2: and he said he'd never experienced such immediate and impressive performance,
[10:47] Speaker 2: even in his fastest rally cars. He said the quietness
[10:51] Speaker 2: of the Taikon was truly a unique experience, and he
[10:54] Speaker 2: said the weight, steering, and brakes all made it feel
[10:56] Speaker 2: distinctly like a Porsche, and yet he would never or
[11:00] Speaker 2: buy one.
[11:01] Speaker 3: Yeah, that's what a legend. What a legend. Oh, I've
[11:04] Speaker 3: got to take can joke? Actually?
[11:06] Speaker 2: What is it? They?
[11:07] Speaker 3: The Germans wanted to name it something else, but all
[11:09] Speaker 3: the good names were take can.
[11:12] Speaker 2: I think that my five year old would appreciate that joke?
[11:17] Speaker 3: All right?
[11:18] Speaker 2: So coming up, General Motors shelved its ROBOTAXI unit less
[11:22] Speaker 2: than a year ago. But now the company is ready
[11:24] Speaker 2: to get back into the self driving market and they're
[11:27] Speaker 2: hoping to continue knocking it out of the park with
[11:30] Speaker 2: their high priced, high margin trucks and SUVs. More on
[11:33] Speaker 2: that after this break, This is hot pursuit. I'm Matt Miller,
[11:44] Speaker 2: along with Hannah Elliott. General Motors held a big press
[11:47] Speaker 2: conference touting new targets as it continues to sell high margin,
[11:51] Speaker 2: high price trucks and said it's going to get back
[11:55] Speaker 2: to self driving vehicles with a twenty twenty eight escalade IQ.
[12:00] Speaker 2: All right, we are lucky enough to have our Detroit
[12:02] Speaker 2: bureau chief in the house. David Welch joins us. I guess, David,
[12:07] Speaker 2: you're in town for this General Motors presentation. I saw
[12:11] Speaker 2: you there yesterday with Mary Barrow as the CEO, as
[12:15] Speaker 2: well as President Mark Royce and then a couple of
[12:18] Speaker 2: like their super tech execs, Sterling Anderson and Dave Richardson. Yeah,
[12:24] Speaker 2: General Motors has the stock went on a tear this week,
[12:27] Speaker 2: and it's because what they raised their forecast in terms
[12:31] Speaker 2: of the ultra high end luxury trucks they're selling. Is
[12:35] Speaker 2: that right?
[12:37] Speaker 4: Well, they raised their earnings forecast period based on truck
[12:41] Speaker 4: sales doing well, I mean GMC, which is all expensive
[12:45] Speaker 4: pickup trucks, and sgv's on pace for a record year.
[12:48] Speaker 4: And also they gave a lot of clarity on a
[12:51] Speaker 4: couple of things investors worried about. One is tariffs, so
[12:53] Speaker 4: they're managing those costs, and the other one is clearly
[12:58] Speaker 4: they've got enough investment in electric vasvehicles. They don't need
[13:01] Speaker 4: to put any more into that. And investors have always
[13:03] Speaker 4: been uncertain on how much money that stuff is really
[13:05] Speaker 4: going to make in the next few years. So if
[13:09] Speaker 4: you're looking at a stock like GM and you're worried about,
[13:12] Speaker 4: you know where their earnings are going to go. You know,
[13:14] Speaker 4: the truck business prints money, and if that goes into
[13:17] Speaker 4: an EV business that loses money, it's not a great investment.
[13:20] Speaker 4: And so look, you know, we're based on where the
[13:23] Speaker 4: market is, based on Trump's policies. They got a dozen
[13:26] Speaker 4: vs on the market, they got a couple of battery plants,
[13:28] Speaker 4: a third one planned. They don't need to put any
[13:30] Speaker 4: more money into that. Investors are kind of like, great,
[13:33] Speaker 4: so you're just going to print money on pickup trucks
[13:35] Speaker 4: and sgv's going forward and we like that. So the
[13:39] Speaker 4: stock went on a terror because all that uncertainty was
[13:41] Speaker 4: basically cleared off the decks.
[13:43] Speaker 3: David tell us about how much the self driving announcement
[13:49] Speaker 3: had to do with people feeling good about GM, or
[13:53] Speaker 3: did it?
[13:54] Speaker 2: I mean did?
[13:54] Speaker 3: How related were those two things? I saw I read
[13:57] Speaker 3: your piece. You know, GM announced they're getting back into
[14:00] Speaker 3: self driving cars. How interrelated are those those topics?
[14:06] Speaker 4: There's some connection there, I think when so go back
[14:10] Speaker 4: to when GM had Cruise, which is a fully self
[14:12] Speaker 4: driving vehicle and a robotaxi business like Waimo is running.
[14:17] Speaker 3: Now we've been talking a lot about Weimo.
[14:20] Speaker 4: Yeah. Look, Waymo was doing some interesting stuff, but GM
[14:22] Speaker 4: investors hated it. Every time GM put money into Cruise,
[14:28] Speaker 4: or I should say, conversely, if GM laid people off
[14:31] Speaker 4: at Creus or cut back, shares went up. So by
[14:35] Speaker 4: the time GM killed crews off and the stock had
[14:39] Speaker 4: gone up a significant percentage because of that, and because
[14:42] Speaker 4: earnings did better because it wasn't a drag of re quarder.
[14:45] Speaker 4: What that essentially meant was that investors assigned a negative
[14:48] Speaker 4: value to Cruise. They didn't want to see money going
[14:51] Speaker 4: into that because they think it's going to take forever. Now,
[14:53] Speaker 4: if you're Google and you have all kinds of cash
[14:55] Speaker 4: and you know much better cash flow, you know what
[14:58] Speaker 4: they it's not inconsequential, it's not cheap to fundway Mo.
[15:02] Speaker 4: But for a company the size of Alphabet Inc. It's
[15:05] Speaker 4: it's like money in the couch cushions. You know, it's
[15:07] Speaker 4: pocket change. But for GM, it was real money. With
[15:11] Speaker 4: what they announced yesterday, it says GM's getting back into
[15:15] Speaker 4: self driving vehicles by continually developing the supercrus business they
[15:19] Speaker 4: have now, which already makes money and it doesn't require
[15:22] Speaker 4: a lot of investment to keep doing that. It's yeah,
[15:26] Speaker 4: you're investing in the people, you're hiring people at software,
[15:28] Speaker 4: but the investment goes up and down the elevator every day,
[15:31] Speaker 4: or you know, in the front door, as opposed to
[15:34] Speaker 4: building more plants and scaling up in cities to run
[15:37] Speaker 4: a robotaxi business. Also, frankly, I think it's unclear to
[15:40] Speaker 4: a lot of investors how robotaxi businesses are going to
[15:43] Speaker 4: make money because those fleets are very expensive to maintain.
[15:46] Speaker 4: But GM's not doing that. They're selling a service that
[15:48] Speaker 4: already has very nice margins. And GM gave some clarity
[15:51] Speaker 4: on that seventy percent margins to people who are already buying
[15:55] Speaker 4: their cars. So if you look at that a number
[15:58] Speaker 4: of people driving GM vehicles that could end up with
[16:01] Speaker 4: super crews or this advanced version of what they're doing
[16:04] Speaker 4: in twenty twenty eight, and maybe they licensed it to
[16:07] Speaker 4: another company. They're partnered with Hyundai in a lot of ways,
[16:10] Speaker 4: you know that. I think that's all good. Now, how
[16:13] Speaker 4: much investors choose to believe that GM is going to
[16:16] Speaker 4: hit a home run with that? That that's the open
[16:18] Speaker 4: question because the car companies are never going to doing
[16:20] Speaker 4: business to consumer kind of stuff. They're they're good at
[16:22] Speaker 4: manufacturing stuff and handing it off to a dealer who
[16:24] Speaker 4: faces off with the customer. But hey, it's it's sort
[16:27] Speaker 4: of all icing on the cake. It's all potential upside
[16:30] Speaker 4: here for GM, as opposed to, you know, spending billions
[16:34] Speaker 4: to develop a big robotaxi business like they.
[16:36] Speaker 2: We should clarify. So the self driving I know a
[16:40] Speaker 2: lot of people you know, like to pick knits when
[16:43] Speaker 2: you talk about autonomous driving. The idea is now, with
[16:47] Speaker 2: super crews, you have you can have hands off driving.
[16:50] Speaker 4: And eyes off.
[16:52] Speaker 2: I thought eyes off is what they're coming out with
[16:54] Speaker 2: in twenty Yeah, that's what I mean. Yeah, okay, so
[16:57] Speaker 2: now the deal is for people who don't drive GM
[17:00] Speaker 2: vehicles or haven't tried this, because it's also an expensive option.
[17:02] Speaker 2: That's why the margins are high. Right, if you get
[17:05] Speaker 2: it on a luxury GM you know, g Javior Cadillact
[17:10] Speaker 2: vehicle exactly, you can it completely takes over for you.
[17:14] Speaker 2: And David they said that they'd done seven hundred thousand
[17:18] Speaker 2: million miles, so seven hundred billion miles of hands off
[17:23] Speaker 2: driving the Super Crews without an accident that's attributed to
[17:25] Speaker 2: the system. Have you used the system? What do you
[17:29] Speaker 2: think about it?
[17:30] Speaker 4: I've used Supercrews. I haven't used obviously the new one
[17:33] Speaker 4: they're going to put out.
[17:33] Speaker 2: No, I mean the Current, the Current. I've used the.
[17:35] Speaker 4: Current when in the hummer, and it is really good.
[17:37] Speaker 4: Like you're on the highway, you signal that you want
[17:40] Speaker 4: to change lanes, it'll change lanes for you, it'll pass cars.
[17:44] Speaker 4: It is very good. It's hands free. I'm not a
[17:46] Speaker 4: big fan of the these hands free systems because eventually
[17:51] Speaker 4: you have to get your hand back on the wheel, right,
[17:53] Speaker 4: Like you can't do that, Like interminably.
[17:57] Speaker 2: Can you take your all the way off the wheel
[17:59] Speaker 2: or do you have to like rest your fingers on.
[18:01] Speaker 4: You can take it all the way off the wheel,
[18:02] Speaker 4: but you have to put it back on after a
[18:03] Speaker 4: certain amount of time.
[18:04] Speaker 3: It's also critical, you said on the highway, because these
[18:07] Speaker 3: don't work on surface streaks.
[18:09] Speaker 2: That's right at the moment.
[18:12] Speaker 4: So you have this hands free system, but you do
[18:14] Speaker 4: have to keep your eyes engaged, and if you take
[18:16] Speaker 4: your eyes off the road with supercrews currently, it will
[18:19] Speaker 4: warn you to put them back on, and then if
[18:21] Speaker 4: you don't, it'll it'll slow the vehicle down and stop it.
[18:24] Speaker 3: I have both in the hummer and in the in
[18:27] Speaker 3: the escalade.
[18:28] Speaker 2: That's a little bit with David.
[18:30] Speaker 3: It's it's to me, it's like you still have to
[18:34] Speaker 3: be engaged driving. You can't just fall asleep and take
[18:39] Speaker 3: a nap. You still, like David said, you still have
[18:42] Speaker 3: to be paying attention and looking at the road even
[18:44] Speaker 3: if your hands aren't on the steering wheel. So it
[18:47] Speaker 3: allows for a little bit more of a relaxed state.
[18:52] Speaker 3: But exactly that's what it feels like. And also it's
[18:58] Speaker 3: not great about exiting. It will exit, but you kind
[19:02] Speaker 3: of have to you have to pay paying attention. Yeah,
[19:05] Speaker 3: it's what I would say. You still have to you
[19:08] Speaker 3: still have to be engaged. It's not like take a nap.
[19:11] Speaker 4: Yeah, so, Matt, I don't know if you noticed this yesterday,
[19:13] Speaker 4: if you crawled around that escalated IQ, that's the Electric
[19:16] Speaker 4: Cadillac Escalade. But they had a video screen that was
[19:20] Speaker 4: showing episodes of White Lotus. Yes, with the implication being
[19:24] Speaker 4: that you can really kind of zone out here and
[19:28] Speaker 4: watch a movie or TV.
[19:30] Speaker 2: This is for the twenty twenty eight version. Yeah, yeah,
[19:33] Speaker 2: that's right, right, that would be an update.
[19:34] Speaker 4: Yeah, so presumably can go to sleep. Now, what you
[19:36] Speaker 4: can't do, crucially, you can't sit in the backseat, which
[19:40] Speaker 4: you can with the Robotaxi systems, right, you have to
[19:43] Speaker 4: be in the front seat. Reason being is, well, look
[19:47] Speaker 4: what Waimo does, what Zekes does, and that's the other
[19:50] Speaker 4: Robotaxi company and Mame Mobility for that matter, is they
[19:54] Speaker 4: are tightly geofenced that they can only pick people up
[19:57] Speaker 4: and offer fares in rids to fares and certain areas.
[20:01] Speaker 4: That's sort of similar with current supercrews and the future addition,
[20:06] Speaker 4: it's on the highway and then once you get off
[20:08] Speaker 4: the highway onto surface streets, which is probably why Hana
[20:11] Speaker 4: was having a tough time with the off ramp. You
[20:14] Speaker 4: have to re engage now. Sterley Anderson told me that
[20:17] Speaker 4: eventually they want to get to the point where they're
[20:19] Speaker 4: doing this on surface streets in urban areas as well,
[20:23] Speaker 4: and they want to add more models beyond the Escalate IQ.
[20:27] Speaker 4: So look, Sterley Anderson's had a product development at General Motors.
[20:30] Speaker 4: His background is obviously he came from Aurora Innovation, which
[20:33] Speaker 4: is av trucking right now, but before that he worked
[20:35] Speaker 4: on autopilot for Tesla, and he did his PhD paper
[20:39] Speaker 4: in mechanical engineering on autonomous technology. So what he told
[20:45] Speaker 4: me the quote I had my story was you know,
[20:48] Speaker 4: if I'm gonna paraphrase, but he said, basically, I'd be
[20:52] Speaker 4: a curious choice to be CEO if the company didn't
[20:54] Speaker 4: believe in autonomy. So they're really going to push this thing.
[20:57] Speaker 4: And honestly, if you look at what else is out
[20:58] Speaker 4: there on the market, Tesla's full self driving is not
[21:02] Speaker 4: a totally hands free system. You must put your hands
[21:04] Speaker 4: back on the wheel at a certain point. Mercedes and
[21:06] Speaker 4: BMW have some nice systems, but Honey You've probably driven
[21:09] Speaker 4: those more than I have, but don't they top out
[21:12] Speaker 4: around forty miles per hour?
[21:14] Speaker 3: Yes, Mercedes has a Level three system that is not
[21:19] Speaker 3: legal in all states that similarly, it will do some
[21:25] Speaker 3: highway and some street driving. But everybody's got some of
[21:30] Speaker 3: this and it's not legal everywhere.
[21:32] Speaker 2: That's the other thing, you know, the regulations.
[21:36] Speaker 3: So I'm curious, David. You seem to this quote from
[21:41] Speaker 3: Sirling Anderson, which you pointed out, does indicate that this
[21:45] Speaker 3: is a real commitment. This isn't just gms sort of
[21:49] Speaker 3: trying to stay relevant and act like they are going
[21:51] Speaker 3: to be moving in the future, but they're leaving themselves
[21:55] Speaker 3: and out in case they don't want to pursue this.
[21:59] Speaker 3: Is that your sense that this is a real This
[22:01] Speaker 3: is real?
[22:02] Speaker 4: Yeah, it is, and I think hiring Sterling says that
[22:06] Speaker 4: because and look also, this is the story I broke
[22:09] Speaker 4: a while back. One of his first meetings with the
[22:11] Speaker 4: new staff, the software people at gm IS, he said
[22:15] Speaker 4: that he was hiring people, some of the former cruise
[22:17] Speaker 4: people back, and he also brought in people from elsewhere,
[22:21] Speaker 4: and he confirmed all of that for me yesterday too.
[22:23] Speaker 4: They've hired autonomous talent from from other places as well.
[22:28] Speaker 4: So yeah, they're they're they're really pushing this. And look,
[22:30] Speaker 4: to me, this was a surprise because when Cruz was
[22:33] Speaker 4: shut down, GM said, yeah, we're going to develop a
[22:36] Speaker 4: personally owned autonomous vehicle. But this is a company whose
[22:39] Speaker 4: shareholders rewarded it for getting out of autonomy, whose general
[22:43] Speaker 4: counsel's office and lobbyists went through. I'd say, you know,
[22:47] Speaker 4: some very very tough months after the car drag, somebody
[22:50] Speaker 4: and the California and federal regulators leaned all over them.
[22:53] Speaker 4: This was a nightmare for them. And I just thought,
[22:56] Speaker 4: knowing how GM responds to shareholders and regulators, which is
[23:01] Speaker 4: to say very accommodatingly, we're never going to see this
[23:05] Speaker 4: car from GM. So now Sterling comes back and we're
[23:07] Speaker 4: going to see it's not the autonomous robotaxi, but it
[23:11] Speaker 4: really is moving pretty far along the spectrum from hands
[23:15] Speaker 4: hands off driving or level two toward actual level four autonomy.
[23:19] Speaker 2: Wait, can I just ask about general motors? Seems to
[23:22] Speaker 2: have done very well in certain areas. For example, the
[23:26] Speaker 2: evs have massive range. I remember the first time I
[23:29] Speaker 2: drove an Audi EV, the Etron. You know, I don't
[23:32] Speaker 2: know six seven years ago, and I was impressed, but
[23:35] Speaker 2: I couldn't get a lot of range. This week, as
[23:37] Speaker 2: Hanna and I were talking about, I'm in a Portia Taikon,
[23:39] Speaker 2: which is amazing, but it's you know, two hundred miles
[23:44] Speaker 2: or so of real range, maybe less if you're really
[23:46] Speaker 2: gunning it, whereas GM has managed four hundred plus miles
[23:51] Speaker 2: on these big giant trucks. They've also had, I think,
[23:54] Speaker 2: a technological advantage in that they're infotainment systems. You know
[24:01] Speaker 2: now are a lot of times they're dropping Apple Car Play,
[24:03] Speaker 2: but you don't need it because they're so useful and
[24:07] Speaker 2: effective as they as they are, and they have this
[24:12] Speaker 2: broad product offering, like if you want an ev from them,
[24:16] Speaker 2: and I know it's not currently on vogue, but you
[24:19] Speaker 2: can get everything from an Equinox or a Bolt, you know,
[24:22] Speaker 2: lower prices through to the higher end trucks and the
[24:27] Speaker 2: massively expensive you know, Cadillacs. So why does GM seem
[24:33] Speaker 2: to be doing so well compared to others with these
[24:37] Speaker 2: high higher tech projects. And am I reading that wrong?
[24:43] Speaker 2: David No, I.
[24:44] Speaker 4: Think you're reading it pretty well. I mean, look like
[24:46] Speaker 4: it's just funny debate. I had a few years ago
[24:49] Speaker 4: on another automotive TV show, where the host said, you know,
[24:55] Speaker 4: he was making fun of Cadillac because Cadillacs had its
[24:57] Speaker 4: troubles over the years. He said, GM basically said GM
[25:00] Speaker 4: sucks at luxury, and I said, that's not really true.
[25:02] Speaker 4: I said, Cadillac has sucked at bringing in luxury buyers.
[25:06] Speaker 4: I said, but if you look at GMC, they sell
[25:08] Speaker 4: four hundred to six hundred thousand vehicles a year, and
[25:11] Speaker 4: I think about half of them are the Denali brand,
[25:14] Speaker 4: which is these are basically Cadillacs with like kind of
[25:18] Speaker 4: more trucky trims inside, but they're luxury vehicles and they're
[25:22] Speaker 4: really expensive. So GM brings in a lot of very
[25:26] Speaker 4: well healed consumers. Cadillac's gotten better through the EVS, but
[25:30] Speaker 4: between some very expensive Chevy pickups, corvettes, now some Hummers,
[25:35] Speaker 4: and the GMC line, they have customers pay a lot
[25:40] Speaker 4: of money for their vehicles and they like technology. Most
[25:44] Speaker 4: luxury buyers do. So, you know, I think GM, in
[25:48] Speaker 4: a way that Jeep has been unable to do, is
[25:50] Speaker 4: identified that there are people who like big vehicles obviously,
[25:54] Speaker 4: and they like them to be luxurious, but they don't
[25:56] Speaker 4: necessarily want the conspicuous consumption of an ostentation brand.
[26:01] Speaker 3: I was just going to say sorry, I was just
[26:03] Speaker 3: going to say that is it's a very interesting juxtaposition.
[26:07] Speaker 3: And I was in Texas last week driving around the
[26:11] Speaker 3: juxtaposition between how much money something costs and whether or
[26:14] Speaker 3: not it's considered a luxury item. And this goes back
[26:17] Speaker 3: to the six figure trucks, which somehow are not considered
[26:22] Speaker 3: flashy and luxury items, but they cost so much money.
[26:27] Speaker 4: And they called them cowboy ketto as.
[26:30] Speaker 3: There you go, perfect example where it is a weird
[26:33] Speaker 3: mind trick that the automakers play where they sort of
[26:37] Speaker 3: sneak in all the luxury things and that price point,
[26:41] Speaker 3: but it's not considered too flashy for the neighborhood.
[26:44] Speaker 2: It's also part of the selling point. I mean, I
[26:47] Speaker 2: remember when I first moved to Bronxville, which is kind
[26:50] Speaker 2: of a Shei Shei suburb of New York, and noticed
[26:52] Speaker 2: that all the moms were driving Yukon Denaleys that's on
[26:55] Speaker 2: the right side, because because they didn't want to be
[26:59] Speaker 2: driving the sort of kardashian esque escalades, but they wanted
[27:03] Speaker 2: all the same rooms and room and functionality, and so
[27:08] Speaker 2: I guess they went with the Denale thinking it was
[27:10] Speaker 2: kind of more under the radar or kind of like
[27:12] Speaker 2: a you know you acceptable, yeah, yeah, and it's it's.
[27:16] Speaker 4: Just less of an obnoxious thing, and but it's it's big,
[27:22] Speaker 4: and it's kind of if an escalade is kind of
[27:27] Speaker 4: brash in its styling, and I think it probably I
[27:29] Speaker 4: think it probably is. You know, gmcal a, gmc yukon
[27:33] Speaker 4: Denale is it would be much more understated. But you
[27:37] Speaker 4: sit inside those things and they are very much wucked
[27:39] Speaker 4: out and they're very expensive. I've said, for a long time,
[27:41] Speaker 4: I thought Tesla was a luxury brand. Now I think
[27:46] Speaker 4: they've given that away by stripping down and discounting their cars.
[27:51] Speaker 4: But for the longest time, back when they were selling
[27:53] Speaker 4: Model wives and Model threes for sixty five thousand dollars,
[27:56] Speaker 4: other automotive journalists, but you know, it would get angry
[27:58] Speaker 4: at me like it's not luxury at and said, I'm like, look,
[28:00] Speaker 4: I know it's very spartan inside, but if you're you know,
[28:05] Speaker 4: you're paying that much for you know, a four passenger
[28:10] Speaker 4: small vehicle like like a Model three or Model Y,
[28:12] Speaker 4: that's a luxury good.
[28:13] Speaker 3: If you're paying I was I was saying, I was
[28:15] Speaker 3: probably one of the people disagreeing with you because I
[28:18] Speaker 3: was like, this is not luxury, this.
[28:20] Speaker 2: Is this is this is an age old discussion. Hannah
[28:23] Speaker 2: and I have what.
[28:25] Speaker 4: Hannah's right too, because it doesn't have luxury amployments because
[28:28] Speaker 4: the interiors are frankly, you know, very spartan and just
[28:31] Speaker 4: not posh at all. However, I'm with my degrees in economics.
[28:34] Speaker 4: I look at a luxury good from an economy from
[28:36] Speaker 4: an economists definition, which is you're paying a hell of
[28:39] Speaker 4: a lot more for it for something that does the
[28:41] Speaker 4: same thing as a twenty two thousand dollars Chevy Tracks.
[28:46] Speaker 4: But it was a different kind of luxury in the
[28:48] Speaker 4: sense that if you look at an eyewatch on iPhone,
[28:52] Speaker 4: you're you're paying more for those products than you do
[28:54] Speaker 4: for other things. And the luxury is actually in the
[28:56] Speaker 4: functionality and technology and the HMI, even though it's really
[29:00] Speaker 4: simple design. Now these days, I wouldn't say Tesla even
[29:03] Speaker 4: a model US, I'm not sure i'd call luxury anymore
[29:06] Speaker 4: because they just they haven't done anything with the interiors.
[29:09] Speaker 4: I mean, like I thought with Tesla that the missed
[29:11] Speaker 4: opportunity with Cybertruck was not just that the styling is
[29:14] Speaker 4: strange to many people, but I sort of understand the
[29:18] Speaker 4: styling in a weird sci fi kind of way. If
[29:21] Speaker 4: the interior was expensive and matched it in a weird
[29:24] Speaker 4: sci fi kind of way, I think they would have
[29:26] Speaker 4: kind of had a hit with that. Yeah, and it
[29:28] Speaker 4: would have been it would have had a sort of
[29:31] Speaker 4: a weird cool factor to it. But they took a
[29:34] Speaker 4: pass like they always do on interiors, and therefore it's
[29:37] Speaker 4: not it's not a luxurious product, but it's a luxury good.
[29:40] Speaker 4: If I can kind of split it that way.
[29:42] Speaker 3: That's a good good end note, David, thank you so
[29:44] Speaker 3: much for joining us. We are out of time with you,
[29:47] Speaker 3: but we love having you come on and please come on.
[29:50] Speaker 2: More, and we love reading your stories and you're doing this.
[29:53] Speaker 2: Did a great job running that bureau in Detroit.
[29:55] Speaker 4: Thank you, handle of your stuff. Mad loved being with
[29:58] Speaker 4: you on the air all the time, So let's do it. Thanks.
[30:01] Speaker 3: Coming up, I've got a new column on old rolls
[30:04] Speaker 3: royces and why they may need a little bit of defending.
[30:07] Speaker 3: That's coming up right after this.
[30:16] Speaker 2: You're listening to Bloomberg's Hot Pursuit. I'm Matt Miller along
[30:19] Speaker 2: with Hannah Elliott. Hannah, I want to talk about your
[30:21] Speaker 2: latest column. It's something that we talk about all the
[30:25] Speaker 2: time a fair amount.
[30:27] Speaker 3: I mean, this is honestly, this is not going to
[30:29] Speaker 3: be anything new to anyone who's listened to this well,
[30:32] Speaker 3: but I think it is new to some people.
[30:33] Speaker 2: It's still an important discussion, and I think it centers
[30:37] Speaker 2: around one of the smartest piece of pieces of advice
[30:42] Speaker 2: that you give to people, which is, you know, when
[30:45] Speaker 2: you're looking for something in the market new that's overpriced
[30:49] Speaker 2: or that doesn't exist, why not just look at something
[30:53] Speaker 2: in the secondhand market. I mean, we don't all need
[30:56] Speaker 2: to buy products that no one else has had before.
[30:59] Speaker 3: That's exactly right. And we've talked about how the price
[31:03] Speaker 3: of new vehicles is kind of astronomical and we get
[31:06] Speaker 3: very desensitized to it in our job and the things
[31:08] Speaker 3: that we do to report because it's we talk about
[31:12] Speaker 3: them all the time. But really, like even the most
[31:15] Speaker 3: basic nine to eleven is more than one hundred and
[31:18] Speaker 3: thirty thousand dollars just to even get a nine to
[31:21] Speaker 3: eleven ferraris if you want to talk ferrari are averaging
[31:25] Speaker 3: four hundred and fifty seven thousand dollars for a new one,
[31:29] Speaker 3: and that's not including the weight time, and that's not
[31:32] Speaker 3: including if you want a special edition version, which tax
[31:34] Speaker 3: on another you know, forty to eighty percent of that price.
[31:38] Speaker 3: So new cars are crazy expensive. We I think we
[31:44] Speaker 3: both can relate to the feeling that we want to
[31:46] Speaker 3: have something that feels unique, that feels like it reflects
[31:49] Speaker 3: our personality. But it can feel like an arms race,
[31:52] Speaker 3: and it can be depressing. Really define that.
[31:55] Speaker 2: And it's not even just luxury, right. I think weeks
[31:58] Speaker 2: Togo Cox Automotive came out with a figure that for
[32:01] Speaker 2: the first time, the average new car price, that's the
[32:05] Speaker 2: average purchase in a mode not just luxury cars, is
[32:08] Speaker 2: more than fifty thousand dollars.
[32:10] Speaker 3: Yeah, that's wild.
[32:11] Speaker 2: So and you know, I always talk about the fact
[32:13] Speaker 2: that I'm shopping a suburban. I really want to get
[32:17] Speaker 2: a big suburban for my family. I have to have
[32:20] Speaker 2: the six point two liter V eight. Obviously, I'm not
[32:23] Speaker 2: going to go with the five point three when there's
[32:25] Speaker 2: a bigger one out there. But every time I put
[32:29] Speaker 2: one together, it costs eighty nine or ninety two thousand dollars.
[32:33] Speaker 2: And that's for like what is considered, at least when
[32:36] Speaker 2: I was a kid, the ultimate family vehicle. Right, Sure,
[32:39] Speaker 2: that's not.
[32:40] Speaker 3: Going to give you rockstar status, but I'll tell you
[32:43] Speaker 3: something that will. An old Rolls Rice.
[32:48] Speaker 1: Laugh.
[32:48] Speaker 3: I laugh because you have heard me go through it
[32:52] Speaker 3: with complaining about, you know, a breakdown every now and then.
[32:56] Speaker 3: This is true, but I have to say the upside
[32:59] Speaker 3: of owning something vintage so far out weighs any minor
[33:05] Speaker 3: discomfort are set back.
[33:07] Speaker 2: I mean, but does it outweigh like the repair bills,
[33:11] Speaker 2: because this is what I always wonder. You see Rolls
[33:14] Speaker 2: Royce's on bat or you know, maybe Craig's list. I look.
[33:21] Speaker 2: I always look for these Bentley Turbo rs. I love, yes,
[33:24] Speaker 2: yes shapes that is so you. They apparently are great
[33:28] Speaker 2: to drive as well. I never have, but I listen
[33:30] Speaker 2: to Matt Farrah talk about the one.
[33:32] Speaker 1: He bought a matter of time, and you can get
[33:35] Speaker 1: they can be had for you know, twenty five thirty
[33:39] Speaker 1: five forty thousand dollars in what looks like pretty good shape.
[33:43] Speaker 2: But then I fear taking taking it to Charlie Agapo
[33:48] Speaker 2: and paying like I know, ten thousand dollars repair bills.
[33:51] Speaker 3: I know, and Look, the truth is sometimes the cost
[33:58] Speaker 3: of the repair and maintenance may exceed the price and
[34:03] Speaker 3: value of the car. That is true, and that is
[34:06] Speaker 3: because to your point, a Rose Ray Silver Shadow is
[34:11] Speaker 3: a twenty grand car now over the years market in
[34:15] Speaker 3: the US market, yes, from nineteen seventies, call it. I
[34:19] Speaker 3: have not spent twenty grand on repairs and maintenance for
[34:21] Speaker 3: that car, and I don't anticipate that I will. I've
[34:24] Speaker 3: spent a couple grand here and there to do electrical
[34:28] Speaker 3: work and to replace cracked hoses and that sort of thing,
[34:33] Speaker 3: but nothing major knock on wood. But yeah, the cars
[34:37] Speaker 3: are pretty inexpensive, which means that, yes, the repairs in
[34:40] Speaker 3: proportion to the cost of the car are high.
[34:45] Speaker 2: But again.
[34:48] Speaker 3: It's still less than buying an eighty grand suburban. And
[34:53] Speaker 3: the amount of joy and pleasure and delight that I
[34:56] Speaker 3: get from the car far outweighs the cost. As that
[35:00] Speaker 3: famous saying goes, the quality will remain long after the
[35:04] Speaker 3: price is forgotten, and that is true.
[35:06] Speaker 2: Well, and you can also probably easily fit two rear
[35:11] Speaker 2: facing car seats in the back for sure, and a
[35:14] Speaker 2: lot of stuff in the boot, So I guess you
[35:17] Speaker 2: know it would make sense. I think part of it
[35:20] Speaker 2: depends on the generation that you buy. So I'm always
[35:23] Speaker 2: looking at the s Z series, which is that the
[35:28] Speaker 2: eighties and nineties Rolls, Royce's and Bentley's that had a
[35:34] Speaker 2: lot more I guess high tech things going on in
[35:38] Speaker 2: the motor that need I don't know if it's always
[35:41] Speaker 2: engine out, but expensive repairs.
[35:44] Speaker 1: So in the.
[35:46] Speaker 2: Silver Shadow that you're interested in is the s Y
[35:52] Speaker 2: series that was the previous nineteen sixty five to nineteen
[35:55] Speaker 2: eighty and just seems like maybe they come with a
[35:58] Speaker 2: lower bill.
[35:59] Speaker 3: Probably I think that's true, and I want you to
[36:03] Speaker 3: have a Bentley from the nineties, like this feels very you.
[36:07] Speaker 3: I want this for you. And to that end, I
[36:10] Speaker 3: have looked at prices, and you're right, it's all just
[36:13] Speaker 3: more expensive. Like the closer to modern day you get,
[36:16] Speaker 3: it all gets more and more expensive, which is a
[36:18] Speaker 3: little bit out of my price point, which is why
[36:20] Speaker 3: mine are in the seventies, although I do have one
[36:22] Speaker 3: from the mid eighties, a Spur that is actually the
[36:25] Speaker 3: one that's running the best right now, so that's the
[36:27] Speaker 3: one I drive to work. Again, I don't think it's
[36:32] Speaker 3: for everyone, like everyone can find their sweet spot, but
[36:37] Speaker 3: I really recommend old cars.
[36:39] Speaker 2: All right, Well, that does it for this week's show.
[36:41] Speaker 2: Remember to follow and subscribe to Hot Pursuit on Apple, Spotify,
[36:46] Speaker 2: and anywhere else you listen to podcasts. Feel like to
[36:48] Speaker 2: search Bloomberg Hot Pursuit. You can also send us your comments.
[36:52] Speaker 2: Email us at hot Pursuit at bloomberg dot net.
[36:54] Speaker 3: And you can check out my columns and stories on
[36:57] Speaker 3: Bloomberg dot com and the Bloomberg Business App. You can
[37:01] Speaker 3: go there for car reviews, events and stories that you
[37:04] Speaker 3: won't find anywhere else. Find it all at Bloomberg dot com,
[37:08] Speaker 3: slash Pursuits, slash Autos.
[37:11] Speaker 2: I'm Hannah Elliott and I'm Matt Miller. We'll be back
[37:14] Speaker 2: with a fresh episode in your podcast Speed next week.

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