# Phoebe Lapine: The Truth About Carbs – How to Eat for Gut Health Without Fear

An episode of [A Really Good Cry](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1708895338), 28 Jan 2025, 1 h 02 min.

Audio: https://podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/pscrb.fm/rss/p/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/df24579c-d34d-442a-8481-b06501282e4d/3234f692-e753-459d-b418-b273006f28a2/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=10ca5a50-409d-41dc-a52d-b06501421bfc

Could carbs actually be the key to better health and happiness? In this episode of A Really Good Cry, I’m chatting with Phoebe Lapine, wellness advocate and author of Carbivore, to unravel the myths and truths about carbs, health, and the emotional ties we have with food. Phoebe shares her inspiring journey from navigating an autoimmune diagnosis to redefining her relationship with food and creating a balanced, nourishing lifestyle. We also talk about practical tips for managing blood sugar, the healing power of listening to your body, and why enjoying your favorite carbs doesn’t mean sacrificing wellness. Phoebe’s approach is refreshingly honest, making wellness feel achievable, joyful, and guilt-free. This conversation will leave you feeling informed, inspired, and ready to embrace a gentler, more loving way to nourish yourself. You don’t want to miss it! What We Discuss: 00:00 Intro 00:37 Diagnosed with Hashimoto's Thyroiditis 05:02 The benefits of cutting off sugar intake 10:38 Slow carb is not low carb 14:36 Is the keto diet sustainable? 19:05 The effects of low fiber diet on the microbiome 21:10 What are net carbs in nutrition labels? 25:57 How effective is protein powder? 27:43 The emotional connection with certain food 30:37 Top three sources of good carbs 32:47 The resistance starch 34:41 Why oats are getting so much hate 36:54 How do carbs affect your body 39:13 The nature of blood sugar every after a meal 40:56 When is the best time to eat carbs? 42:19 What is SIBO? 49:19 How to avoid having SIBO 51:52 Healing your body takes time 54:34 Do you need more carbs when breastfeeding? 54:47 How food is prepared affects the body Follow Phoebe: • https://feedmephoebe.com/ • https://www.instagram.com/phoebelapine • https://youtube.com/@phoebelapine • https://www.linkedin.com/in/phoebe-lapine • https://www.facebook.com/FeedMePhoebe Follow Radhi: • https://www.instagram.com/radhidevlukia/ • https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxWe9A4kMf9V_AHOXkGhCzQ • https://www.facebook.com/radhidevlukia1/ • https://www.tiktok.com/@radhidevlukia See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:00] Speaker 1: Especially for women in their child bearing years. That's a
[0:02] Speaker 1: lot of stress to put the body under, and a
[0:05] Speaker 1: lot of women will lose their periods or fine changes
[0:07] Speaker 1: to their cycle. That should be a big red flag
[0:10] Speaker 1: that this diet is not necessarily productive.
[0:12] Speaker 2: I wanted to ask why you think carbohydrates have been
[0:16] Speaker 2: so demonized in society these days, Phoebe, thank you so
[0:20] Speaker 2: much for coming on the podcast. You have a book
[0:23] Speaker 2: that's been released called Carbavul, but you've already written four
[0:25] Speaker 2: other books.
[0:26] Speaker 1: Over the years. There was, like Atkins in the nineties
[0:28] Speaker 1: when we went low fat. What happened was the carb
[0:31] Speaker 1: count and everything we ate just went up exponentially. So
[0:34] Speaker 1: kind of the example that I give is whole milk yogurt.
[0:37] Speaker 1: When you take out the fat, lactose is an actual sugar,
[0:40] Speaker 1: so the sugars just go way up. As a result,
[0:43] Speaker 1: we also have less fat less protein to kind of
[0:46] Speaker 1: slow our carbs roll to our bloodstream. My biggest pet
[0:50] Speaker 1: peeve with the wellness world is.
[0:51] Speaker 2: That I'm Razibluka and on my podcast a really Good Cry,
[0:56] Speaker 2: we embrace the messy and the beautiful, providing a space
[1:00] Speaker 2: for raw, unfiltered conversations that celebrate vulnerability and allow you
[1:04] Speaker 2: to tune in to learn, connect and find comfort together. Phoebe,
[1:08] Speaker 2: thank you so much for coming on the podcast. I'm
[1:11] Speaker 2: so excited to have you here, and I cannot tell
[1:13] Speaker 2: you how many questions I have for you.
[1:15] Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, I'm so ready. So you have.
[1:18] Speaker 2: A book that's been released called carbevol But you've already
[1:20] Speaker 2: written four other books, right.
[1:22] Speaker 1: Yes, this is my fourth, and they've you know, spanned
[1:25] Speaker 1: a whole broad range of topics.
[1:27] Speaker 2: I would love to know how you got to where
[1:29] Speaker 2: you are now and got interested in the work that
[1:31] Speaker 2: you do.
[1:32] Speaker 1: Absolutely so. I've cooked for as long as I can remember,
[1:35] Speaker 1: and I graduated college, and I had a corporate job,
[1:38] Speaker 1: and this is in the dinosaur age of food blogging.
[1:41] Speaker 1: But I started a blog like dot blog spot at
[1:44] Speaker 1: the very beginning and got a cookbook deal really early on,
[1:48] Speaker 1: which was so amazing. And I hate it when women
[1:50] Speaker 1: say I was lucky, but you know, it was kind
[1:52] Speaker 1: of like the right niche at the right time. And
[1:55] Speaker 1: so I quit my corporate job and kind of took
[1:57] Speaker 1: on this weird assortment of odd food jobs to make
[2:01] Speaker 1: it work.
[2:02] Speaker 2: And then some of the odd food jobs I need to.
[2:04] Speaker 1: Oh, I mean just teaching classes in people's homes, which
[2:07] Speaker 1: was really funny in New York. You know, at first
[2:09] Speaker 1: I thought I was going to get murdered every single time,
[2:13] Speaker 1: just like showing up alone at these strangers' houses. But
[2:16] Speaker 1: that was actually one of the more fun things I did.
[2:17] Speaker 1: And I don't know, just food styling, private chefing, catering,
[2:23] Speaker 1: like really anything that involved food. And then I had
[2:27] Speaker 1: this diagnosis. I was diagnosed with hashimotives thyroid idis, which
[2:30] Speaker 1: is an autoimmune disease that affects with thyroid gland and
[2:33] Speaker 1: it was by my normal childhood PCP. And you know,
[2:37] Speaker 1: in retrospect, I know that I was really lucky to
[2:40] Speaker 1: be diagnosed at all. But I was twenty two, so
[2:43] Speaker 1: I was really naive and immature, and my doctor was like,
[2:47] Speaker 1: it's no big deal, It's very common for women your age.
[2:49] Speaker 1: I'll just have to be on this medication for the
[2:51] Speaker 1: rest of your life. And I was like, you know,
[2:53] Speaker 1: record scratch what. And I think, you know, I had
[2:58] Speaker 1: the right idea that, you know, just taking a pill
[3:01] Speaker 1: as a band aid fix was not going to be
[3:03] Speaker 1: my path. But I also wasn't experiencing kind of any
[3:06] Speaker 1: symptoms that I could link to this mysterious diagnosis, and
[3:10] Speaker 1: so I just went on living my life and pretended
[3:13] Speaker 1: the conversation had never happened, and then slowly kind of
[3:17] Speaker 1: like wound down health mountainto my version of rock bottom. Also,
[3:21] Speaker 1: like working a lot of odd food jobs, it was
[3:24] Speaker 1: very physical and exhausting, especially in New York. It's like
[3:27] Speaker 1: the schlep is real. And so I found myself like
[3:31] Speaker 1: exhausted all the time, and I kind of chalked it
[3:34] Speaker 1: up to just you know, working a really hard job.
[3:37] Speaker 1: I used to like run, and I started getting these cramps,
[3:40] Speaker 1: like within half a block. My hair was falling out,
[3:43] Speaker 1: my skin was a mess. And ultimately it was kind
[3:46] Speaker 1: of the vanity aspect that got my attention. I mean,
[3:49] Speaker 1: why not. So I did find my way into the
[3:52] Speaker 1: office of someone with a more holistic mindset and did
[3:56] Speaker 1: my first elimination diet, kind of learned that gluten and
[3:59] Speaker 1: I do not get along. Didn't learn like kind of
[4:01] Speaker 1: the connection with hashimotos at the time, but really, you know,
[4:05] Speaker 1: it was just very scary to be an aspiring food
[4:09] Speaker 1: professional and to have any sort of dietary restriction on
[4:12] Speaker 1: the horizon. I mean, even today, this is a long
[4:14] Speaker 1: time ago, but you know, there was like a tiny
[4:17] Speaker 1: little corner in the supermarket of gluten free food. Now
[4:19] Speaker 1: it's a whole aisle and it's great, but even today
[4:22] Speaker 1: it's kind of hard to be a food professional with
[4:24] Speaker 1: any sort of dietary restrictions. So at the time, I just,
[4:28] Speaker 1: you know, kind of had to pivot both personally and professionally,
[4:32] Speaker 1: and I just went down the rabbit hole as like
[4:34] Speaker 1: a twenty something of trying to figure out how to
[4:37] Speaker 1: balance these kind of extreme holistic laundry list of things
[4:43] Speaker 1: that I was being told to change about my life with,
[4:46] Speaker 1: you know, kind of the Western side of things, which is,
[4:48] Speaker 1: you know, food doesn't matter, it's not medicine. But I
[4:51] Speaker 1: don't know. I think because I was a chef and
[4:53] Speaker 1: I love food so much, my point of view was like, okay,
[4:56] Speaker 1: well food is medicine, but it's not just medicine. And
[5:00] Speaker 1: I find this balance between you know, my life of
[5:03] Speaker 1: hedonism and this new path of health, and that kind
[5:06] Speaker 1: of became the subject of my second book. I ended
[5:09] Speaker 1: up designing this whole like my life is a guinea
[5:11] Speaker 1: pig experiment of different things to change, like across a
[5:16] Speaker 1: whole spectrum of wellness topics, the Wellness Project.
[5:20] Speaker 2: Oh course, different experiments on yourself.
[5:23] Speaker 1: Yeah, it was inspired by Gretchen Rubin's The Happiness Project.
[5:26] Speaker 1: But I was like, have me take this kind of
[5:27] Speaker 1: like semi type a approach, and you know, not my hypothesis.
[5:33] Speaker 1: But my goal wasn't to be like one hundred percent better.
[5:36] Speaker 1: It was really to find like that sweet spot where
[5:38] Speaker 1: health and hedonism overlapped and where I could just kind
[5:42] Speaker 1: of let go of a lot of the shame and
[5:43] Speaker 1: the guilt about the things I wasn't doing and latch
[5:46] Speaker 1: onto the many self care practices that actually did bring
[5:49] Speaker 1: me joy. And have you know a real impact on
[5:52] Speaker 1: my physical health?
[5:53] Speaker 2: And what were some of the practices that you found
[5:55] Speaker 2: when you were doing all those experiments that really made
[5:58] Speaker 2: a difference for you?
[5:59] Speaker 1: Okay, Well, well, the first month I went, I went hard.
[6:03] Speaker 1: I did. I did no added sugar, no caffeine, and
[6:07] Speaker 1: no alcohol, cold turkey, and it was really interesting. I
[6:11] Speaker 1: found sugar to actually be the hardest. And it's you know,
[6:14] Speaker 1: definitely part of the subject matter of this book right now,
[6:17] Speaker 1: in terms of how to find that balance. So it
[6:20] Speaker 1: wasn't something that I knew I was going to be
[6:22] Speaker 1: you know, cold turkey for the rest of my life.
[6:24] Speaker 1: The kind of the idea was always a fine moderation
[6:26] Speaker 1: after but I had this horrible perioral dermatitis issues. Do
[6:32] Speaker 1: you know it?
[6:32] Speaker 2: Well, how then did you cow should go full just
[6:35] Speaker 2: a month? And what were the effects that you found?
[6:38] Speaker 1: Okay, Well, I had perioral dermatitis on and off like
[6:41] Speaker 1: since high school, so for like almost ten years. And
[6:45] Speaker 1: you know, I just like would go through the revolving
[6:47] Speaker 1: door of the dermatologist office. They'd give me an antibiotic
[6:50] Speaker 1: or a steroid or a cream and it would be better,
[6:53] Speaker 1: but then like a few weeks later I would come back.
[6:55] Speaker 1: So I was just on this merry ground for so
[6:57] Speaker 1: so long, and I'm sure like doing catastrophic damage my gut.
[7:00] Speaker 2: What with the stems you was seeing on your face
[7:02] Speaker 2: with perial dermatize, it's.
[7:04] Speaker 1: Just like a like literally a rash shadow.
[7:07] Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like little little bumps on your skin, very tiny.
[7:11] Speaker 1: I think, like worse than acne because you can't cover
[7:13] Speaker 1: it up.
[7:14] Speaker 2: No, even when you cover it, it still looks rough under
[7:16] Speaker 2: the skin.
[7:17] Speaker 1: Yeah, there's like no makeup you combat that. So I
[7:20] Speaker 1: have like my before and after pictures, like it was
[7:23] Speaker 1: really really bad. And this was like kind of the
[7:26] Speaker 1: first thing I did besides whatever my dermatologist told me
[7:29] Speaker 1: to do. And I kid you not, it was gone
[7:32] Speaker 1: by the end of the month, like smooth skin and
[7:35] Speaker 1: never really came back, which was the amazing thing thing.
[7:37] Speaker 2: I have to tell you. I am on day sixteen
[7:42] Speaker 2: of noahdas sugar. It's the first time I've ever been
[7:46] Speaker 2: able to do it. Wow. But I I would really
[7:49] Speaker 2: give up on day one. I used to find it
[7:51] Speaker 2: so difficult. I actually don't really have.
[7:53] Speaker 1: The hardest thing. It's so not in your head.
[7:55] Speaker 2: It is by a one hundred percent of drug Sugar
[7:58] Speaker 2: is one hundred percent of drugs. And I gave it
[8:01] Speaker 2: up because you know what, Normally I'll say I'm giving
[8:03] Speaker 2: up and then day one off of really stress at
[8:05] Speaker 2: the end of the day and I'm just like, fine,
[8:07] Speaker 2: I'll just have a spoon of something. But what I'd
[8:08] Speaker 2: realized was whenever I get into those moments, for me,
[8:11] Speaker 2: eating has always been linked to my emotions, and so
[8:14] Speaker 2: sugar because I was like, well, I don't drink alcohol,
[8:16] Speaker 2: I never have, I don't do caffeine. Okay, fine, let
[8:19] Speaker 2: me just have a bit of sugar like, isn't that bad,
[8:20] Speaker 2: but it actually is just as bad. And so I
[8:23] Speaker 2: would have What I would start noticing was after every meal,
[8:26] Speaker 2: my body would tell me, even if I was so full,
[8:29] Speaker 2: it's time to have a sugary snap. And day one
[8:32] Speaker 2: I made it through day one. After day one, it
[8:34] Speaker 2: got so much easier. I was like, oh wow, okay,
[8:37] Speaker 2: I made it to day one. And I wouldn't tell
[8:39] Speaker 2: myself I'm doing it for a certain amount of time.
[8:40] Speaker 2: I was like, I'm just going to see how it goes.
[8:42] Speaker 2: There's due day day at time. Because every time I
[8:44] Speaker 2: would tell myself I'm giving up for a month, I'd
[8:46] Speaker 2: be like, my body would send me panic. But I
[8:50] Speaker 2: had this rash that same kind of dermatize this on
[8:53] Speaker 2: my forehead. It would not go. It was all these
[8:56] Speaker 2: tiny bumps. I got facials, I got it's like.
[9:00] Speaker 1: The foliation, but it doesn't always work.
[9:03] Speaker 2: I did it all three to four days in and
[9:06] Speaker 2: by the way, this had been going on on and
[9:08] Speaker 2: off for a while and it kept coming and going,
[9:09] Speaker 2: and so I was like, I wonder what's causing this.
[9:11] Speaker 2: I kind of wasn't even expecting it to be to
[9:14] Speaker 2: go away from the sugar but I literally four days
[9:17] Speaker 2: in I was like, hold on, I looked at my skin.
[9:20] Speaker 2: My skin is so much better.
[9:24] Speaker 1: You look gorgeous.
[9:24] Speaker 2: You were, but it made such a difference. And I
[9:29] Speaker 2: think what happens with sugar is it really dulls you
[9:31] Speaker 2: from the inside. And I know you were saying you
[9:33] Speaker 2: may change because of aesthetics before, but in Iraada, it
[9:37] Speaker 2: talks about how your skin, your hair, all the extremities
[9:41] Speaker 2: of your body that you can see, all the externals
[9:43] Speaker 2: that you can see, they are the things that are
[9:45] Speaker 2: basically showing up to tell you there is something wrong.
[9:48] Speaker 2: So it'll start telling you from the inside and you
[9:50] Speaker 2: might not listen, but as soon as you start seeing
[9:52] Speaker 2: on the outside, that just shows that it's got to
[9:54] Speaker 2: that level where it's had to show up on the
[9:57] Speaker 2: outside to tell you. I'm screaming at you now, I
[10:00] Speaker 2: tell you something is wrong in my body. I need
[10:02] Speaker 2: you to listen. And so, yes, you may have done
[10:04] Speaker 2: it because of externals, but really it's your externals telling you.
[10:08] Speaker 2: Your internals have to do. I have to change, and.
[10:11] Speaker 1: So my skin is our biggest organ and it is besides,
[10:15] Speaker 1: you know what happens in the bathroom, like the quickest
[10:17] Speaker 1: exit ramp for anything that's causing inflammation or just not
[10:21] Speaker 1: agreeing with us.
[10:21] Speaker 2: I really noticed that when my gut is a little
[10:23] Speaker 2: bit upset, I will sweat more, and not to be
[10:28] Speaker 2: too much, but it will. It will smell worse, and
[10:31] Speaker 2: I will definitely notice the difference between when I eat
[10:33] Speaker 2: out or eat certain oils. When I'm out eat certain
[10:36] Speaker 2: like foods, and then how my sweat is the next
[10:39] Speaker 2: day or when I'm working out, I'm like, oh God,
[10:41] Speaker 2: I don't normally smell like this, but today I do.
[10:45] Speaker 2: So that. Yeah, I think it's a really good indication. Actually, Okay,
[10:47] Speaker 2: So your new book is called Carbivore. Love the name.
[10:51] Speaker 1: Back to the subject of shit.
[10:54] Speaker 2: Carbivore I am. Let me just tell you I have
[10:57] Speaker 2: and always will be a carboholic. I love carbo. I
[11:01] Speaker 2: grew up where my mum would buy fresh, incredible bread
[11:04] Speaker 2: at the beginning of the week. She would have to
[11:07] Speaker 2: hide the bread from me. No, no, she would actually
[11:10] Speaker 2: have a cupboard that she hid the bread. Eventually, thank goodness,
[11:12] Speaker 2: I figured out what cupboard it was. But she would
[11:14] Speaker 2: hide the bread because she'd buy a loaf and by
[11:17] Speaker 2: midday a quarter of the loaf would have gone because
[11:20] Speaker 2: all I wanted was butter and bread. So I A, yeah,
[11:24] Speaker 2: I loved the name of your book, But more than that,
[11:27] Speaker 2: I wanted to ask you, so I love that you
[11:29] Speaker 2: wrote a book about carbohydrates, because I wanted to ask
[11:33] Speaker 2: why you think carbohydrates have been so or cobs have
[11:35] Speaker 2: been so demonized in society these days, and I would
[11:39] Speaker 2: love to hear your perspective on that.
[11:41] Speaker 1: Yeah, well, there have been different like flavors of low
[11:43] Speaker 1: carb diets over the years. There was like Atkins in
[11:46] Speaker 1: the nineties. But I do think that where we're at
[11:48] Speaker 1: today with like the extreme vilification, it is in part
[11:52] Speaker 1: because of where we went wrong in the nineties. You know,
[11:55] Speaker 1: it's not completely out of nowhere. It's not for no reason.
[11:58] Speaker 1: Like in the nineties when we you know, went low fat,
[12:02] Speaker 1: what happened was the carb count and everything we ate
[12:04] Speaker 1: just went up exponentially. So kind of the example that
[12:07] Speaker 1: I give is with just you know, like whole milk yogurt,
[12:10] Speaker 1: when you take out the fat, lactose is an actual sugar,
[12:13] Speaker 1: so the sugars just go way up in that and
[12:17] Speaker 1: you know, as a result, we also have less fat,
[12:20] Speaker 1: less protein to kind of slow our carbs roll to
[12:22] Speaker 1: our bloodstream. So kind of my theme with this book
[12:25] Speaker 1: is I say it's slow carb not low carb, because
[12:28] Speaker 1: it's really just about how the carbs can interact in
[12:31] Speaker 1: a more productive way in our body. But yeah, in
[12:35] Speaker 1: terms of, you know, the way that our industrialized food
[12:40] Speaker 1: system has changed, the way grains have changed, you know,
[12:43] Speaker 1: I think that conversation as it's grown, has just spurred
[12:46] Speaker 1: more and more fear around carbs. And I honestly think
[12:50] Speaker 1: that you know, where we've kind of gone wrong is
[12:52] Speaker 1: that we've separated kind of the carb conversation from the
[12:55] Speaker 1: conversation around sugar. So you'll see kind of people in
[12:58] Speaker 1: the low carb movement or people who are paleo, you know,
[13:02] Speaker 1: they're making cookies, you know, with almond flour. Sure that
[13:05] Speaker 1: like lowers the carb count, but then putting you know,
[13:07] Speaker 1: just as much honey or maple syrup or anything into them.
[13:10] Speaker 1: And so the question is is it actually having an
[13:13] Speaker 1: impact at all on our blood sugar? Which, you know,
[13:15] Speaker 1: if we're gonna hone in on the carb conversation, and
[13:19] Speaker 1: you know what's changed over the years, like of course,
[13:21] Speaker 1: like obesit is soaring, diabetes is soaring, so it's not
[13:24] Speaker 1: like there's no problem and that carbs didn't play any
[13:28] Speaker 1: role in it. But in terms of how we can
[13:32] Speaker 1: change things and how we can eat the foods that
[13:34] Speaker 1: we love without having such a negative impact on our bodies,
[13:38] Speaker 1: I think there is kind of a middle road there
[13:40] Speaker 1: that doesn't require such an intense omission. And I feel
[13:44] Speaker 1: like with any omission, I mean you kind of said
[13:45] Speaker 1: a little bit with the sugar element, it's really hard
[13:48] Speaker 1: to go cold turkey on something long term, especially like
[13:51] Speaker 1: for women. Our bodies are really really sensitive. So finding
[13:56] Speaker 1: you know, a practical way to have moderation or life
[13:59] Speaker 1: I think is actually really healthier long term.
[14:01] Speaker 2: True, I have to caveat me saying I've given up
[14:05] Speaker 2: sugar with saying my saving grace has been stewed apples,
[14:09] Speaker 2: like stewing fruit, adding on some like yogurt on top,
[14:13] Speaker 2: and like having something like that. Just knowing that I
[14:15] Speaker 2: have an option that is somewhat sweet was really helpful.
[14:19] Speaker 1: I canch whole fruit in from my experience.
[14:21] Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely, I think that makes such a difference. You
[14:24] Speaker 2: mentioned that this I find really interesting that you said
[14:26] Speaker 2: low fat ends up being higher carbohydrates, and I think
[14:30] Speaker 2: most people I think labels are really tricky, like these days.
[14:33] Speaker 2: Labels are so tricky because you see one thing and
[14:35] Speaker 2: it says loafat gluten free. It was naturally gluten free
[14:39] Speaker 2: in the first place, but like loafat gluten free zero
[14:42] Speaker 2: percent cholesterol. Nothing has cholesterol in it anyway, but the
[14:46] Speaker 2: labels that you see, so you can see something with
[14:48] Speaker 2: all these no added this, know this, know this, but
[14:51] Speaker 2: you don't realize what it's actually saying, right, You don't
[14:54] Speaker 2: realize what's actually in the product to make it that way.
[14:57] Speaker 2: And so I find even with a lot of gluten
[14:58] Speaker 2: free products at the beginning, my family have some autoimmune
[15:02] Speaker 2: disorders and so a lot of people in my family
[15:04] Speaker 2: have given up gluten. And this was ten or more
[15:07] Speaker 2: years ago, and so yeah, they came.
[15:09] Speaker 1: My camp, the sad Free Girl Camp.
[15:12] Speaker 2: Where there was really not that many options, and what
[15:14] Speaker 2: there were the options were things which were gluten free
[15:17] Speaker 2: but had ridiculous ingredients you didn't even know or understand.
[15:21] Speaker 1: Highly processed, highly processed. Definitely healthier, yes.
[15:26] Speaker 2: Exactly, but do you find you know you mentioned the
[15:29] Speaker 2: keto diet. Is the keto diet a good diet? And
[15:33] Speaker 2: is it sustainable?
[15:34] Speaker 1: Like so Okay, My biggest pet peeve with the wellness
[15:39] Speaker 1: zeitgeys the wellness world is that a lot of these
[15:41] Speaker 1: diets are data backed but for a therapeutic application, so
[15:45] Speaker 1: for a short term period. And I think anything can
[15:48] Speaker 1: be helpful in a short term period, but that doesn't
[15:51] Speaker 1: necessarily mean it has to be a lifestyle. And you know,
[15:54] Speaker 1: if you're someone who's done keto and it works for
[15:57] Speaker 1: you long term, great, Also cave like a lot of
[16:00] Speaker 1: these studies are not done in women. Yeah, but I
[16:03] Speaker 1: think you know, again, when we go on any of
[16:06] Speaker 1: these short term sprints, it leaves room for falling off
[16:09] Speaker 1: the wagon. And I think, you know a lot of
[16:12] Speaker 1: people really struggle with disordered eating, and that's not talked
[16:16] Speaker 1: enough about with these extreme diets. So ketosis is like
[16:20] Speaker 1: a really intense thing to put your body through to
[16:23] Speaker 1: find fuel from within to turn fat into readily available energy.
[16:29] Speaker 1: And again, especially for women, especially for women in their
[16:31] Speaker 1: child bearing years, that's a lot of stress to put
[16:34] Speaker 1: the body under and a lot of women you know
[16:37] Speaker 1: will lose their periods or fine changes to their cycle
[16:39] Speaker 1: that you know should be a big red flag that
[16:42] Speaker 1: this diet is not necessarily productive. So there are other
[16:45] Speaker 1: ways again to kind of go about it. And it's
[16:47] Speaker 1: not to say that, you know, a short term period
[16:49] Speaker 1: of keto if you have some sort of gut dysfunction
[16:52] Speaker 1: or you know, or you know, insulin sensitivity, that it
[16:55] Speaker 1: can't be helpful for you. But like that's the whole
[16:58] Speaker 1: point of a therapeutic diet. It is kind of to
[17:02] Speaker 1: you know, do a short term sprint and then avoid
[17:05] Speaker 1: the place where you kind of reach a point of
[17:07] Speaker 1: diminishing returns.
[17:08] Speaker 2: So would you say copple hydrates are an essential part
[17:11] Speaker 2: of a body to survive and be healthy. And what
[17:15] Speaker 2: are the repercussions of, you know, removing carbohydrates from the
[17:18] Speaker 2: body because I know you mentioned people using the menstrual
[17:21] Speaker 2: cycle or women using the eventstrual cycle. Is there a
[17:24] Speaker 2: link between carbohydrates and women's hormones?
[17:27] Speaker 1: Absolutely? So, first of all, you know, when we say carbs,
[17:30] Speaker 1: it's kind of slang for starch, you know, bread, potatoes, grains,
[17:35] Speaker 1: what we think of as traditional traditional carbs. But carbohydrates
[17:39] Speaker 1: is a macronutrient that literally includes all plants on earth.
[17:43] Speaker 1: So you know, I can get into a sparring war
[17:46] Speaker 1: with some carnivores out there, but I personally believe that
[17:50] Speaker 1: the majority of the data points to the fact that
[17:53] Speaker 1: we would you know, be exponentially increasing our mortality rate
[17:56] Speaker 1: if we took out all plants from our diet. So,
[18:00] Speaker 1: you know, when we talk about low carb and keto
[18:03] Speaker 1: is again an extreme version of this that includes a
[18:06] Speaker 1: lot of starchy vegetables, but you know, most of the
[18:09] Speaker 1: time we're just talking about reducing starch. However, you know,
[18:14] Speaker 1: I personally am of the belief and my third book
[18:17] Speaker 1: was all about gut health that like diversity is the
[18:20] Speaker 1: spice of life. You know, our gut health is so
[18:22] Speaker 1: important for our overall health, our immune system, our moods,
[18:26] Speaker 1: so many different functions, and we know that how to
[18:30] Speaker 1: you know, kind of foster as diverse an ecosystem as
[18:33] Speaker 1: possible within our body is to eat as diverse, you know,
[18:36] Speaker 1: an array of plants as possible. So I think that's
[18:39] Speaker 1: kind of the central argument against going too low carb
[18:42] Speaker 1: because you know, just like what we said about low fat,
[18:45] Speaker 1: you know, increasing carbs. When we reduce you know, our
[18:49] Speaker 1: plate and take away a major macronutrient or take away
[18:53] Speaker 1: you know, a whole swath of plants, we're taking away
[18:56] Speaker 1: our diversity and we're increasing the ratios of other things
[19:00] Speaker 1: that might be healthy and moderation but aren't once they
[19:03] Speaker 1: start taking up too big a quadrant. So I think
[19:05] Speaker 1: that's you know, one argument. And then second of all
[19:09] Speaker 1: is women's hormones. You know, we need readily available glucose,
[19:13] Speaker 1: our simplest form of energy to make certain hormones, and
[19:17] Speaker 1: especially for all my thyroid girlies out there, to make
[19:20] Speaker 1: our thyroid hormones. So yeah, there have been some studies
[19:24] Speaker 1: about keto and going super low carb for people with
[19:27] Speaker 1: thyroid issues that can show, you know, it can actually
[19:31] Speaker 1: increase some of those really annoying symptoms of hypothyroidism, like
[19:36] Speaker 1: the fatigue, because again, like our body can't catch up,
[19:39] Speaker 1: and you know, there's always kind of you know, a
[19:42] Speaker 1: goldilocks issue for everyone. I think it's the point of
[19:46] Speaker 1: the book and the point of this conversation is that
[19:48] Speaker 1: you know, super low carb and super high carb you know,
[19:51] Speaker 1: are not useful for the average person, Like the average
[19:54] Speaker 1: person needs to fall somewhere in the middle.
[19:56] Speaker 2: And what would you say is considered super low cab?
[20:00] Speaker 2: What is too low?
[20:01] Speaker 1: I mean, keto is you know, one of the lowest
[20:03] Speaker 1: complete removal, yeah, or carnivore.
[20:06] Speaker 2: It's so funny. I knew this person who there was
[20:10] Speaker 2: this guy that I knew, and he was such uh wait,
[20:14] Speaker 2: what's it called? Uh not carbivore? Thinking he wasn't a carbivore.
[20:21] Speaker 2: He was such a carnival that he would only eat me.
[20:24] Speaker 2: He literally believed that vegetables and fruits were really bad
[20:28] Speaker 2: for you. And I guess there is a big following
[20:31] Speaker 2: in that. I didn't realize that, but he but to
[20:34] Speaker 2: the point where he would get his meals prepped and
[20:36] Speaker 2: sent to him and everything would come out of plastic
[20:40] Speaker 2: packaging and it was all meals that you warm up
[20:43] Speaker 2: in the microwave, but all pure meat based. And I
[20:47] Speaker 2: was like, wait, do you know if she was like
[20:49] Speaker 2: no ver? She was a really bad few. And I'm like,
[20:50] Speaker 2: what about your microbiome? What about your gut?
[20:54] Speaker 1: Do you pooh?
[20:54] Speaker 2: Like? What's happening? Like? What's happening with your gut? I
[20:58] Speaker 2: need to know the details because I can't understand how
[21:00] Speaker 2: you're functioning with such low fiber, because really, when you
[21:03] Speaker 2: cut out carbohydrates and vegetables, you're so low in fiber,
[21:08] Speaker 2: and then on top of that, you have such an
[21:09] Speaker 2: extreme level of protein and whenever I've tried to increase
[21:12] Speaker 2: my protein or I've heard other people have, it really
[21:15] Speaker 2: does take a while for you'll get to adapt to
[21:16] Speaker 2: that level of protein in the body. Sometimes your body
[21:19] Speaker 2: can't even process that amount. So there you are with
[21:22] Speaker 2: your high protein, zero fiber, and no fruits and vegetables.
[21:26] Speaker 2: So where are you getting your nutrients from? Probably, like
[21:29] Speaker 2: I didn't win the argument because he was a serious carnival,
[21:33] Speaker 2: but I was like, I can't put my head around it.
[21:36] Speaker 1: No, And I'm so glad you brought up fiber because
[21:39] Speaker 1: fiber is a carbohydrate. So I get it really annoyed
[21:43] Speaker 1: with people who, you know, talk about low carb and
[21:46] Speaker 1: you know, they're like, it's just you know, to have
[21:48] Speaker 1: more plants on your plate. I'm like, okay, yeah, fiber
[21:51] Speaker 1: is super important. It's super important for kind of improving
[21:55] Speaker 1: our carb tolerance. But it is a carbohydrate, so like,
[21:58] Speaker 1: you can't be super low quote unquote carb.
[22:01] Speaker 2: Have you heard of lots of products now saying net carbs? No?
[22:05] Speaker 2: Oh my gosh. So it's so interesting. I've been seeing
[22:07] Speaker 2: this quite a bit. I don't want to shout out,
[22:10] Speaker 2: I don't want to like scrutinize any specific brands. I'll
[22:13] Speaker 2: tell you later, but there are some brands who will
[22:15] Speaker 2: say like four grams net carbs, and what they've now
[22:18] Speaker 2: been doing is counting the cabs based on removing soluble
[22:22] Speaker 2: fiber or something like. They don't count the soluble fiber,
[22:26] Speaker 2: and so they'll have bagels or breads or things like
[22:30] Speaker 2: that that they say four grams net carbs and then
[22:32] Speaker 2: you look at the back and it says total carbs
[22:35] Speaker 2: minus the fiber, and so you have four grams of
[22:38] Speaker 2: net carbs. And it's a weird label that they've now
[22:40] Speaker 2: brought out because I'm like, you still got your thirty
[22:43] Speaker 2: grams of cabs and that baby.
[22:45] Speaker 1: I mean, I understand what they're going for. You can
[22:47] Speaker 1: say it because I can't not wrong per se. But
[22:51] Speaker 1: you know, it's kind of doing the math for people.
[22:54] Speaker 1: You know, if you're trying to eat if a brass
[22:56] Speaker 1: as food, you know that has the ingredient list on
[22:59] Speaker 1: the back and a label, you kind of want it
[23:02] Speaker 1: to reflect the reality of a whole food. So you know, fruits,
[23:07] Speaker 1: let's say, have five times as much sugar as fiber,
[23:11] Speaker 1: so like you're kind of it's like a one to
[23:12] Speaker 1: five ratio. So anything that kind of exceeds that you're like, oh,
[23:16] Speaker 1: that's way too high sugar in terms of starches. You know,
[23:19] Speaker 1: I'm not quite sure that the ratio kind of ranges
[23:22] Speaker 1: depending on what it is. But so that's like one
[23:24] Speaker 1: way to think about it is that the fiber is
[23:26] Speaker 1: kind of offsetting the carbs to a certain extent. And
[23:30] Speaker 1: I don't know, but it can be misleading. That's the
[23:33] Speaker 1: problem with packaged foods is that fiber that is pulverized
[23:37] Speaker 1: into microscopic bits, it doesn't have the protective effects as
[23:43] Speaker 1: even the fiber that's in fructose enhanced food like you know,
[23:47] Speaker 1: like whole fruit. It just so what fiber does is
[23:52] Speaker 1: essentially it's a chain of glucose, so again carbohydrate, but
[23:57] Speaker 1: that chain can't be broken down again, so that glucose
[24:00] Speaker 1: enters our system through the small intestine. It just carries
[24:03] Speaker 1: on and goes to our large intestine, where it has
[24:06] Speaker 1: an extremely important function of feeding our good gut critters.
[24:09] Speaker 1: It's their favorite food. But along the way it kind
[24:13] Speaker 1: of creates this sludge in our small intestiness like kind
[24:17] Speaker 1: of a gross visual, but you know, all those seeds,
[24:19] Speaker 1: all those skins form an actual protective layer so that
[24:23] Speaker 1: whatever carbs, what simple sugars come into our system can't
[24:27] Speaker 1: just like go through like a fine mesh sieve, like
[24:30] Speaker 1: a waterfall. It's going to be much more of like
[24:32] Speaker 1: a drip drip, a slow carb effect, rather than an
[24:36] Speaker 1: obstructed stream. So that's kind of the reason why carbs
[24:41] Speaker 1: have gotten a bad name. The reason why carbs have,
[24:43] Speaker 1: you know, in the highly processed food era, caused a
[24:47] Speaker 1: lot more damage is simply because the fiber has been
[24:50] Speaker 1: removed or we've kind of, you know, we haven't learned
[24:54] Speaker 1: how to incorporate that fiber in a productive way, like
[24:56] Speaker 1: eating a salad before our meal, or in Italy like
[24:59] Speaker 1: an antipos musty, or in Japan the etemame. You know,
[25:03] Speaker 1: if you look at different cultures, there are examples of
[25:06] Speaker 1: how fiber can be protective for our body that are
[25:09] Speaker 1: just kind of baked into the cuisines.
[25:11] Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it. I think it's so right. I
[25:13] Speaker 2: understand the concept behind it. But at the same time,
[25:15] Speaker 2: I think a lot of labels are used to mislead,
[25:18] Speaker 2: and that's the that's the fine line where it's like,
[25:20] Speaker 2: are you actually saying it to help or are you
[25:22] Speaker 2: saying it to mislead so that people buy it and
[25:25] Speaker 2: think that it's something that it's not.
[25:26] Speaker 1: Yeah, so like so in the in the case of
[25:28] Speaker 1: processed food, like if we're looking at, you know, a
[25:31] Speaker 1: red lentil pasta versus a regular whole wheat pasta or
[25:36] Speaker 1: just a regular white pasta, you know, the fiber on
[25:38] Speaker 1: the back of the package is going to be much
[25:40] Speaker 1: higher because there's so much naturally occurring dietary fiber in lagomes. However,
[25:46] Speaker 1: it's been pulverized into the point of flour to make
[25:49] Speaker 1: the noodles. You know, you're not going to have that
[25:51] Speaker 1: in the small intestine as a protective measure, Like, it's
[25:54] Speaker 1: not going to slow our carbs roll at all to
[25:57] Speaker 1: our bloodstream. It may feed our gut critters to a
[25:59] Speaker 1: certain extent once it gets to large intestine, but no anything.
[26:03] Speaker 2: You know.
[26:03] Speaker 1: It's another reason why you know, smoothies. If we're you know,
[26:06] Speaker 1: throwing all these whole fruits into a smoothie, it's also
[26:09] Speaker 1: not going to have as much of that protective effect.
[26:12] Speaker 1: Since I'm a cook, I like to use the visual
[26:14] Speaker 1: of like what literally happens if you muddle like raspberries
[26:19] Speaker 1: in a sieve. I have a recipe in the book
[26:20] Speaker 1: for like a raspberry lime curd tart. Yea, And so
[26:25] Speaker 1: make the tart and just like think about actually the
[26:27] Speaker 1: lessons of your blood for your metabolism as you do it.
[26:30] Speaker 1: But no, if you try and push that raspberry through
[26:33] Speaker 1: the sieve again, it's going to get clogged with all
[26:36] Speaker 1: those seeds and whatnot. But if you were to puade
[26:38] Speaker 1: those raspberries in a high speed blender, it's going to
[26:41] Speaker 1: go through the sieve a lot more quickly and again
[26:44] Speaker 1: not create that that helpful sledge way.
[26:47] Speaker 2: That's so true. So would you say that a lot
[26:49] Speaker 2: of these You know, because I eat lentil pasta, I
[26:51] Speaker 2: have to get high a protein in. But I wonder
[26:54] Speaker 2: even when it comes to protein powders, for example, if
[26:58] Speaker 2: the protein is plated in that way and pulverized to
[27:02] Speaker 2: a certain extent and created into powders, would you say
[27:06] Speaker 2: that that has a different effect to having proteins that
[27:10] Speaker 2: are from beans puls like you know, lentail.
[27:14] Speaker 1: Everything is, you know, everything goes through a degree of
[27:17] Speaker 1: processing unless it's a literal whole food. And almond is
[27:20] Speaker 1: very different than almond flour, than almond milk, like again,
[27:23] Speaker 1: like almond milk, I guess on the side the back
[27:25] Speaker 1: of the package is higher fiber, but like you kind
[27:28] Speaker 1: of know, like that's not really like, uh, you know,
[27:31] Speaker 1: that's not the way fiber is meant to function. So
[27:34] Speaker 1: it's not to say not to eat these things. And that,
[27:36] Speaker 1: you know, protein powder lentil pasta isn't a good source
[27:40] Speaker 1: of fiber or protein if you're looking at your macros.
[27:44] Speaker 1: I'm not sure, you know, I would love to think
[27:46] Speaker 1: a little bit more about the protein powder pressure because
[27:49] Speaker 1: kind of the way in terms of our blood sugar,
[27:51] Speaker 1: the way that you know, protein kind of functions is
[27:54] Speaker 1: and same with fat, is to kind of slow down
[27:56] Speaker 1: the emptying of our stomach. So again it's just like
[27:58] Speaker 1: slowing down the diget a process, which, by the way,
[28:01] Speaker 1: if you have certain issues, that's not necessarily a good thing.
[28:04] Speaker 1: You know, certain acute gut issues you know, kind of
[28:07] Speaker 1: are problems of stagnation. My third book was all about
[28:09] Speaker 1: CIBO and IBS, and so there's kind of like a
[28:12] Speaker 1: different lesson plan for that community. But yeah, I'm curious,
[28:16] Speaker 1: you know, when the work is done for your body
[28:20] Speaker 1: before the food enters the body, you know, naturally, I
[28:23] Speaker 1: think it's it's to some degree in a good way
[28:26] Speaker 1: easier to assimilate. Yeah, exactly, But again, when it comes
[28:29] Speaker 1: to your blood sugar, that can be kind of like
[28:32] Speaker 1: a different goal set.
[28:34] Speaker 2: Yes, definitely. What do you think, you know, with a
[28:36] Speaker 2: lot of these protein Pod has just reminded me, have
[28:38] Speaker 2: a lot of alternate sweetness and monk fruit or yeah,
[28:44] Speaker 2: do all of those? Is there enough evidence to show
[28:46] Speaker 2: that they actually don't spike your blood sugar levels? And
[28:50] Speaker 2: are there some negative effects with stevia, monk fruit, all
[28:53] Speaker 2: these additional sweetness that are now put into products to
[28:55] Speaker 2: say they're low sugar.
[28:56] Speaker 1: Yeah, so stevia and monk fruit are probably the best
[29:00] Speaker 1: from you know, a blood sugar perspective. I do think,
[29:03] Speaker 1: and I don't know if you've found this in your experiments,
[29:06] Speaker 1: but there is an addictiveness to sweetness, you know. There
[29:10] Speaker 1: It doesn't have the same impact on our brain, but
[29:12] Speaker 1: our taste buds for sure. So I do think, you know,
[29:15] Speaker 1: people have to think about that a little bit with
[29:17] Speaker 1: you know, it can be a baby step for people
[29:19] Speaker 1: in the right direction, of course, to replace like certain
[29:22] Speaker 1: types of sugar with even like quote unquote natural sweeteners
[29:25] Speaker 1: or you know, stevia and monk fruit. But I am
[29:29] Speaker 1: glad that you're kind of, you know, looking at you know,
[29:32] Speaker 1: tuned in and aware of what happens at the end
[29:34] Speaker 1: of the meal, because I had to do that too,
[29:35] Speaker 1: And I like to analyze, like why do I want
[29:37] Speaker 1: something sweet? What am I really craving here? Is it comfort?
[29:40] Speaker 1: Is it like just to signal to myself that the
[29:43] Speaker 1: meal is over? Is it like, you know, a reward
[29:46] Speaker 1: at the end of the.
[29:47] Speaker 2: Day or the above.
[29:49] Speaker 1: Yeah, And there's nothing wrong with any of those things.
[29:51] Speaker 1: I think it's just worth processing and being aware of,
[29:55] Speaker 1: like how we use certain foods emotionally.
[29:57] Speaker 2: I just didn't want to be have something that had
[29:59] Speaker 2: that much control all over me. I think that's what
[30:01] Speaker 2: it was like. I feel like I'm able to be
[30:03] Speaker 2: quite regimented in other areas of my life, but food
[30:07] Speaker 2: has always been something which I'm so happy about, that
[30:09] Speaker 2: I love and have so much interest in, but at
[30:12] Speaker 2: the same time has had a lot of control over
[30:13] Speaker 2: me emotionally from a young age. And so when I
[30:16] Speaker 2: do get to a point where I'm like telling myself,
[30:18] Speaker 2: you don't need it, but I still end up having it.
[30:21] Speaker 2: That to me is like I'm not in control anymore.
[30:24] Speaker 2: Like I'm not in control of my body of what
[30:26] Speaker 2: it wants, of what it needs. It's skewed because my
[30:29] Speaker 2: senses have overtaken my body and my mind. And I
[30:33] Speaker 2: think that's what throws me off, where I'm like, my
[30:35] Speaker 2: body is actually telling me what it needs, my mind
[30:38] Speaker 2: is telling me what's right for me, but my senses
[30:40] Speaker 2: overtake that and say, no, I need a chocolate. No
[30:43] Speaker 2: you have to have this because and you just to
[30:45] Speaker 2: start telling, you start trying to convince your body and
[30:47] Speaker 2: your mind of why you deserve it or why you
[30:49] Speaker 2: need it. And so I think that ends up being
[30:51] Speaker 2: a tricky kind of cycle that you get trapped into
[30:54] Speaker 2: and the next thing, you know, every single night you're
[30:56] Speaker 2: like reaching for something sweet. And I think having something
[31:00] Speaker 2: small totally okay. I think I just needed to know
[31:02] Speaker 2: that it wasn't dependent on it totally.
[31:04] Speaker 1: And having these resets again, like therapeutic short time sprints
[31:07] Speaker 1: are so important because it like breaks the cycle. It
[31:10] Speaker 1: gives us a little bit of a reset. So even
[31:12] Speaker 1: if you kind of you know, creep back to you know, it's.
[31:15] Speaker 2: A week, I'm like, yeah, I can have a little
[31:17] Speaker 2: tree here and there, But I feel like, now I
[31:19] Speaker 2: know that I won't necessarily go all in, and I
[31:22] Speaker 2: know I can get away from it, which.
[31:23] Speaker 1: Is totally You're totally capable if you ever need a reset,
[31:26] Speaker 1: it's there for you.
[31:27] Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. In your book, you talk about your like
[31:31] Speaker 2: top sources of carbohydrates or like the best type of sources.
[31:33] Speaker 2: What would you say at the top three sources of
[31:36] Speaker 2: carbohydrates that you recommend people should have, because I think
[31:39] Speaker 2: of eight categories, right.
[31:40] Speaker 1: Yeah, I have, so the book is organized by type
[31:43] Speaker 1: of carb but I like, you know, I think the
[31:44] Speaker 1: beauty of carbs is that they're affordable for a lot
[31:47] Speaker 1: of people. They're pantry stable. Kind of the idea for
[31:50] Speaker 1: this book what became out of the pandemic because so
[31:54] Speaker 1: many people were like in need of rounding out their
[31:58] Speaker 1: meals every week with these shelves stable cars. And I
[32:00] Speaker 1: think a lot of people like who were home cooking
[32:02] Speaker 1: for the first time, like actually had a better relationship
[32:06] Speaker 1: with them. On the other end, people were making sour
[32:08] Speaker 1: dough bread and whatnot. But I would say, you know,
[32:10] Speaker 1: I'm talking about carbohydrates like vegetables, fiber rich vegetables. Absolutely,
[32:15] Speaker 1: I'm a huge fan of using seeds and nuts and
[32:18] Speaker 1: various and various combinations. There's there are five different recipes
[32:23] Speaker 1: for nut and seeds sprinkles, which are like a great
[32:26] Speaker 1: way to just add instead of takeaway. That's kind of
[32:29] Speaker 1: always my philosophy.
[32:29] Speaker 2: It is like, how can you get yeah, how can we.
[32:32] Speaker 1: Add things that are you know, gonna create more flavor,
[32:35] Speaker 1: more texture, make our meals more delicious and kind of
[32:38] Speaker 1: I guess according to the math of the food labels
[32:41] Speaker 1: these days offset the carbs, but really it's just about
[32:45] Speaker 1: slowing them down. So I would say those and then
[32:48] Speaker 1: you know, whole grains again in terms of you know,
[32:51] Speaker 1: kind of hedging your bets plant wise. I mean, buckweed
[32:54] Speaker 1: is super nutritious, quene, wa, millet, all these different ancient
[32:58] Speaker 1: grains that have been around for a while and aren't
[33:01] Speaker 1: that different today than they were in their quote unquote
[33:04] Speaker 1: ancient ancient iterations. But I also have you know, I
[33:10] Speaker 1: have potatoes, which, like the skin of potatoes has a
[33:13] Speaker 1: huge amount of fiber in them. They have a lot
[33:14] Speaker 1: of resistant starch. There's also ways that you can you know,
[33:18] Speaker 1: pack your carbs to have more resistant starch and whatnot.
[33:21] Speaker 1: But really the book there's a place for everything. So
[33:23] Speaker 1: there's bread, there's pasta. It's kind of about feeding your
[33:26] Speaker 1: cravings while again kind of like adding more of you know,
[33:30] Speaker 1: the healthy fats and the lean protein and the fiber
[33:33] Speaker 1: and the nut and seed sprinkles that you know, up
[33:36] Speaker 1: the nutrition value and then also slow the carbs down.
[33:38] Speaker 2: What are your favorite secret but also secret collpacs.
[33:42] Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, So resistant starch is one of them.
[33:45] Speaker 1: So resistant starch is really similar to fiber in the body.
[33:49] Speaker 1: So again it's a type of starch i e. Type
[33:52] Speaker 1: of carb quote unquote complex carb. But it can't be
[33:55] Speaker 1: broken down again, so again it passes through our system
[33:58] Speaker 1: and feeds our good gut critters in our large intestine.
[34:01] Speaker 1: And most you know, raw carbs have you know, a
[34:04] Speaker 1: certain degree of resistance starch, and they lose it once
[34:07] Speaker 1: they get cooked. So for example, if you're doing an
[34:11] Speaker 1: overnight oat preparation like raw oats, that's gonna be higher
[34:14] Speaker 1: and resistance starch than cooking the oats. However, if you
[34:19] Speaker 1: cool your cooked carbs down afterwards, even if you reheat
[34:23] Speaker 1: them again, you're gonna have a higher percentage of resistance starch.
[34:27] Speaker 1: It helps kind of redevelop the resistant starch so lowering
[34:30] Speaker 1: the carb count in your food and then again creating
[34:34] Speaker 1: something that's like yummy, happy food for our gut critters.
[34:37] Speaker 1: And I don't again, I'm not crazy about any of
[34:39] Speaker 1: these things. I like to just live in the world
[34:41] Speaker 1: and not you know, have the mental monkeying around carbs.
[34:44] Speaker 1: But I do think to myself, you know, when I
[34:46] Speaker 1: make pasta and I eat it the next day, I'm like, oh,
[34:49] Speaker 1: this is going to be you know a little bit.
[34:51] Speaker 1: Have gon to be a little steadier from this. I maybe,
[34:54] Speaker 1: you know, don't have to add such a huge portion
[34:56] Speaker 1: of salad or vegetables to my plate.
[34:58] Speaker 2: Offright, So cold left pizza, yeah is better. Yeah, it's perfect.
[35:03] Speaker 2: So I'm gonna always buy my pizza and then leave
[35:06] Speaker 2: it the next day and eat it the next egg.
[35:08] Speaker 2: Great pulled pizza is always.
[35:09] Speaker 1: Better, I know. So yeah, you don't have to be
[35:11] Speaker 1: crazy about it. You don't have to like every time
[35:13] Speaker 1: you make pasts, so like I'm gonna freeze it and
[35:14] Speaker 1: then reheat it immediately in one fell swoop. No, it's
[35:18] Speaker 1: just something to think about. And then also like lagomes
[35:20] Speaker 1: have a huge percentage of resistance starch an dietary fiber.
[35:25] Speaker 2: Yeah, and you mentioned in Europe having the you know,
[35:27] Speaker 2: having your veggies and stuff before before your CBS. Right,
[35:30] Speaker 2: that's a great one. Why do you think oats have
[35:34] Speaker 2: become such a hot point lately? I've just been seeing
[35:37] Speaker 2: so many reels and videos about people just hating on oats,
[35:42] Speaker 2: and I'm like, No, oats have been yeah, so great
[35:45] Speaker 2: for so long. Why are we Why do we hate
[35:47] Speaker 2: them now?
[35:48] Speaker 1: They're a whole grain. I mean, I think there's like
[35:50] Speaker 1: the pesticide side of the pesticide side of the conversation.
[35:56] Speaker 1: Oat milk has really come under fire. And I do
[35:59] Speaker 1: think that that one, you know, holds. I get that,
[36:02] Speaker 1: I get that, but again it's like that's a highly
[36:04] Speaker 1: processed version of the oats. You know, the quick microwave
[36:08] Speaker 1: packets of like instant oats. Again, that's taking the whole oat,
[36:13] Speaker 1: but pulverizing it more, cutting it down to smaller pieces
[36:16] Speaker 1: so it cooks faster. So again, you know, kind of
[36:19] Speaker 1: the steel cut oat, which is you know, not pressed
[36:22] Speaker 1: versus the quick cooking oat. Those are going to have
[36:25] Speaker 1: different effects on the body. So I mean, again, like
[36:28] Speaker 1: the slow carb idea is oftentimes convenience, is you know,
[36:33] Speaker 1: gonna make something a little bit less good for your
[36:36] Speaker 1: blood sugar.
[36:37] Speaker 2: Shouldn't be People don't have to cut all the oats, no,
[36:41] Speaker 2: and then oat milk.
[36:42] Speaker 1: You know, I actually think it's delicious. It's like one
[36:45] Speaker 1: of the creamier plant based milks, but it is higher
[36:48] Speaker 1: carb and I think people who use it first thing
[36:50] Speaker 1: in the morning on an empty stomach in their coffee
[36:54] Speaker 1: or their tea or cereal, that's what we have to
[36:57] Speaker 1: look at. I still have it in some of my
[36:59] Speaker 1: bake because I'm like, yeah, I'm like it's going to
[37:02] Speaker 1: make a really good cake and you're eating cakes, so
[37:04] Speaker 1: like exactly either way, yeah, get over it. But you know,
[37:08] Speaker 1: we know that when we have simple sugars or carbs
[37:11] Speaker 1: that are you know, really quickly assimilated on an empty stomach,
[37:15] Speaker 1: they can reach our bloodstream within five minutes, and that
[37:18] Speaker 1: is going to have the biggest impact in the morning
[37:21] Speaker 1: because we've fasted overnight, so our stomach couldn't be emptier
[37:23] Speaker 1: than it is first thing in the morning. And when
[37:26] Speaker 1: we have you know, any sort of volatility in the
[37:29] Speaker 1: morning in terms of our blood sugar, it's going to
[37:31] Speaker 1: have kind of a negative halo effect later in the day.
[37:34] Speaker 1: So it's just again It's about thinking about how we
[37:36] Speaker 1: change our habits around certain ingredients, how we eat certain things,
[37:40] Speaker 1: not necessarily the what of it all, and removing that entirely.
[37:44] Speaker 2: I asked some of my audience on Instagram, the community
[37:48] Speaker 2: on Instagram, about some questions that they wanted to know
[37:51] Speaker 2: about cappohydrates, and one of them that came up a
[37:53] Speaker 2: lot was can I really increase my muscle and reduce
[37:58] Speaker 2: my fat percentage by still eating carbohydrates? And it's so
[38:02] Speaker 2: interesting that people have such a people really believe that
[38:07] Speaker 2: carbohydrates can prevent you from doing that. What's your yeah, perspective.
[38:12] Speaker 1: On the It's really funny. So I'm not a practitioner
[38:15] Speaker 1: of any sort, and I'm certainly not an extreme sportsman
[38:18] Speaker 1: nor body builder in any way, so in terms of
[38:22] Speaker 1: building muscle, like, I can't really speak to that so much.
[38:26] Speaker 1: But so many athletes, you know Carbolot, they eat a
[38:30] Speaker 1: ton of carbs, And it's kind of one situation where
[38:33] Speaker 1: you know you're moving your muscles a lot, you're using
[38:35] Speaker 1: the machine of your body where you can get away
[38:38] Speaker 1: with eating more carbs because you actually do need more
[38:41] Speaker 1: readily accessible energy. So I have a couple experiments of
[38:44] Speaker 1: the book for you to kind of see how carbs
[38:46] Speaker 1: affect you. But one of them is, you know, again
[38:48] Speaker 1: on an empty stomach in the morning, like eating kind
[38:51] Speaker 1: of a high carb breakfast and then going for you know,
[38:53] Speaker 1: a ten to fifteen minute walker before a workout and
[38:56] Speaker 1: seeing how that same food affects you, you know, with
[38:59] Speaker 1: the exercise app versus just being sedentary. And that's not
[39:02] Speaker 1: to say you need to you know, work off your calories,
[39:06] Speaker 1: work off your carbs. I do not live my life
[39:08] Speaker 1: according to that, and I would never put that out
[39:10] Speaker 1: into the world. But it's just again thinking about you know,
[39:13] Speaker 1: our muscles are are using fuel from our bodies. So
[39:17] Speaker 1: if if we're using them in any sort of capacity,
[39:20] Speaker 1: any you know, energy that's hanging out in our bloodstream
[39:23] Speaker 1: is going to get gobbled up more quickly. So you
[39:25] Speaker 1: know a lot of marathoners are extreme athletes, are you know,
[39:28] Speaker 1: having those like sugar gels, Like that's not a health food,
[39:31] Speaker 1: but they need it actually to fuel really long runs.
[39:34] Speaker 1: So I'm actually curious about, yeah, about athletes who are
[39:39] Speaker 1: super low car because I think it's not necessary. So
[39:42] Speaker 1: if I'm obssessed with tennis, we talked about this a
[39:45] Speaker 1: little bit before, and there are like Italian tennis players
[39:48] Speaker 1: who are like, I've literally never had a meal that
[39:50] Speaker 1: didn't evolve pos up.
[39:52] Speaker 2: Like so good, so good. I mean that feels like
[39:56] Speaker 2: a good way to be an athlete.
[39:58] Speaker 1: Yeah, they're like stick thin and like full, like pure muscle.
[40:03] Speaker 2: Why do you think that colbs make people feel so
[40:05] Speaker 2: lethologic and heavy, because I find that a lot most
[40:09] Speaker 2: people feel And I get that if I eat too
[40:11] Speaker 2: many cats at lunch time, I definitely get that crack
[40:14] Speaker 2: downward crash. Yeah.
[40:16] Speaker 1: So yeah, that's totally just a blood sugar thing. So
[40:18] Speaker 1: like what goes up must come down. And I feel
[40:21] Speaker 1: like there's a lot of talk about blood sugar spikes
[40:24] Speaker 1: in the wellness world, and it's not a peeve of mine,
[40:27] Speaker 1: for se, but I do think we're getting like a
[40:29] Speaker 1: little bit too focused on that because really the idea
[40:32] Speaker 1: is that we want as little volatility as possible, So
[40:35] Speaker 1: we don't want huge spikes huge declines all the time.
[40:39] Speaker 1: You know, we kind of want to like flatten the
[40:40] Speaker 1: curve a little bit. But naturally, every time we eat,
[40:43] Speaker 1: our blood sugar is going to go up and down.
[40:45] Speaker 1: It's the n ague of the beats. Even if we're eating,
[40:47] Speaker 1: you know, like a handful of almonds, like it's still
[40:49] Speaker 1: going to go up and down. So yeah, I think
[40:52] Speaker 1: it's again just looking at what else we're doing, what
[40:55] Speaker 1: else we're adding to those carbs, what we're doing afterwards
[40:59] Speaker 1: if you do feel yourself have that blood sugar crash afterwards,
[41:02] Speaker 1: because you know, that's not great. We don't want to
[41:04] Speaker 1: have uneven energy. We don't want to have to take
[41:06] Speaker 1: a nap under our desk mid day, and we don't
[41:08] Speaker 1: want to have cravings, you know by three o'clock in
[41:11] Speaker 1: the afternoon, so far away from dinner.
[41:13] Speaker 2: So maybe that's a good sign for people that if
[41:15] Speaker 2: they are feeling that way, I imagine that's maybe you
[41:18] Speaker 2: are having maybe too many cbs or you're not eating
[41:20] Speaker 2: them in the right way. Yeah, so that's be a
[41:22] Speaker 2: good sign that it doesn't mean that you have to
[41:23] Speaker 2: cut them out either do some of the hacks that
[41:25] Speaker 2: you recommended, or take a walk offt I find that
[41:28] Speaker 2: helps me. As soon as I met my main meal
[41:31] Speaker 2: or like my ofternoon meal, I'll get on the treadmill
[41:33] Speaker 2: just walk taking my next meeting, and I definitely don't
[41:36] Speaker 2: get that extreme low to my meal.
[41:39] Speaker 1: It doesn't have to be exercise. You can just like
[41:41] Speaker 1: walk up sixty once there's ris it's just doing little
[41:45] Speaker 1: small things.
[41:47] Speaker 2: Would you say there's a Is there a best time
[41:49] Speaker 2: to eat calobohydrates in no day?
[41:52] Speaker 1: I think it's again there's kind of like a Goldilock system,
[41:54] Speaker 1: but probably later in the day actually, you know, kind
[41:58] Speaker 1: of one of the side effects that some people experience
[42:00] Speaker 1: with keto is keto insomnia. It's a thing, and so yeah,
[42:04] Speaker 1: at dinner time. It's again a little bit of a
[42:06] Speaker 1: balance to find because going super low carb can't affect
[42:10] Speaker 1: our sleep, but then of course you don't want to
[42:12] Speaker 1: have a blood sugar spike, you know, while you're actually
[42:15] Speaker 1: under the covers. So it's figuring out a nice happy
[42:18] Speaker 1: medium there.
[42:19] Speaker 2: Yeah, that makes sense. Is that? Have you seen any
[42:22] Speaker 2: research based on whether people should be having coppahuders before
[42:25] Speaker 2: they work out or not on whether that benefits. Have
[42:28] Speaker 2: always been interested in that.
[42:29] Speaker 1: Correlation, but the benefit. But I would think that would
[42:31] Speaker 1: be the best time to have them, honestly a workout
[42:34] Speaker 1: and the worst time we do know is in the morning.
[42:37] Speaker 1: So if there's ever a time to kind of focus
[42:39] Speaker 1: a little bit more on protein or healthy fats or
[42:42] Speaker 1: at least making sure we have those things and fiber
[42:45] Speaker 1: on her plate in addition to the carbs. It would
[42:47] Speaker 1: be first thing in the morning. And it's also, you know,
[42:49] Speaker 1: a time that you know, culturally we're most used to
[42:52] Speaker 1: eating sugar. So yeah, it's really just breaking up with
[42:55] Speaker 1: that idea. And again it's like I want to redirect
[42:58] Speaker 1: the conversation. For most people, it's not about reducing the carbs,
[43:00] Speaker 1: is about reducing the sugar. You know, we can just
[43:03] Speaker 1: start off by having anything that follows a more savory
[43:07] Speaker 1: avenue in the morning and like put our best foot
[43:10] Speaker 1: forward you.
[43:11] Speaker 2: I was actually at Dinny yesterday and three people around
[43:14] Speaker 2: the table told me that they hit cibo. I would
[43:17] Speaker 2: love for you to explain SEBO and any advice that
[43:22] Speaker 2: you have for people out there based on it, because
[43:24] Speaker 2: it seems to be very common.
[43:25] Speaker 1: It's very common. And so what happens with CEBO is
[43:30] Speaker 1: it's called small intestinal bacterial overgrowth, and it's kind of
[43:33] Speaker 1: an issue of location, not type. So you have bacteria
[43:37] Speaker 1: that's colonizing too far up in your intestinal track. So
[43:41] Speaker 1: our small intestine again is where we absorb our nutrients.
[43:44] Speaker 1: So there's really no role for bacteria to be there.
[43:46] Speaker 1: They're competing for our food resources there, and then more importantly,
[43:51] Speaker 1: when they eat our food, they're releasing gas. And in
[43:54] Speaker 1: the small intestine so far up there's no easy exit
[43:58] Speaker 1: ramp anymore, so that gets trapped. You know, kind of
[44:02] Speaker 1: the hallmark symptoms of SEBA are really uncomfortable like inner
[44:05] Speaker 1: tube like distension and bloating, and then you know kind
[44:09] Speaker 1: of other classic IBS symptoms like issues you know with
[44:11] Speaker 1: diarrhea or constipation. But it can be really really hard
[44:15] Speaker 1: to eradicate for people, and again one of these chronic
[44:19] Speaker 1: problems that can cause so much misery, and a lot
[44:23] Speaker 1: of people you know, with CIBO do get like very
[44:25] Speaker 1: fearful of food because it's not in their head the
[44:28] Speaker 1: fact that the symptoms are a direct correlation of eating food.
[44:32] Speaker 1: It's that's absolutely true, but it's just that the bacteria
[44:36] Speaker 1: is in the wrong place. So unfortunately a lot of
[44:39] Speaker 1: people will have to go through, you know, some sort
[44:41] Speaker 1: of treatment plan that actually kills the bacteria or you know,
[44:46] Speaker 1: and adopting some strategies to kind of encourage it to
[44:51] Speaker 1: move to the right place. But you know, kind of
[44:54] Speaker 1: the hypothesis with CIBO and why it occurs for a
[44:58] Speaker 1: lot of people is that there's some sort of of stagnation.
[45:01] Speaker 1: So our small intestines are twenty five feet long, like
[45:05] Speaker 1: more surface area than a football field. It's very easy
[45:09] Speaker 1: for anything to get lost in the labyrinth there, for
[45:13] Speaker 1: bacteria to like pull off the side of the highway
[45:15] Speaker 1: and be like, oh, I'm going to like stay a while,
[45:17] Speaker 1: there's a lot of food here and build a little colony.
[45:21] Speaker 1: But what kind of is our preventative measure in our
[45:25] Speaker 1: body is this nerve wave called the migrating motor complex.
[45:28] Speaker 1: And when I wrote the Wellness Product, I did a
[45:31] Speaker 1: ton of research on gut health and I did not
[45:33] Speaker 1: come across, you know, this very essential function. And so
[45:36] Speaker 1: what happens is it essentially is like a street sweeper
[45:39] Speaker 1: wave that clears debris after a meal. So you know,
[45:42] Speaker 1: we have you know, muscles that move the food through,
[45:45] Speaker 1: but then again through this long, windy, craggy area of
[45:49] Speaker 1: the body. We need something that kind of sweeps the decks.
[45:52] Speaker 1: And that's what the migrating motor complex does. And what
[45:55] Speaker 1: I find so interesting about it and why I'm always
[45:58] Speaker 1: talking about it, is that it doesn't kick in unless
[46:01] Speaker 1: you're in a fasting state of ninety minutes or more so,
[46:04] Speaker 1: a lot of people who are snacking all the time.
[46:07] Speaker 1: And again, like we're in a culture that encourages that.
[46:10] Speaker 1: You know, around every corner advertises it, you know, in
[46:14] Speaker 1: every food commercial that we should be snacking. There are
[46:17] Speaker 1: a lot of people say you might have to have
[46:18] Speaker 1: lots of little meals throughout the day versus you know,
[46:20] Speaker 1: three main ones, And maybe that works for you, But
[46:23] Speaker 1: in terms of how you're migrating motor complex works this,
[46:26] Speaker 1: you know, biological process, you're not going to be getting
[46:29] Speaker 1: that benefit that's street sweeper waves. So I wouldn't say
[46:33] Speaker 1: that that is like a main cause of CEBO. There
[46:35] Speaker 1: are so many corem morbidities. There's so many kind of catalysts.
[46:39] Speaker 1: But in terms of thinking about how we eat versus
[46:42] Speaker 1: what we eat, I think it's an important thing to
[46:44] Speaker 1: keep in the back of the mind. And I think
[46:46] Speaker 1: it's a really interesting place where what we know about
[46:48] Speaker 1: our blood sugar overlaps with what we know about our
[46:51] Speaker 1: digestive health because again that volatility. If we're eating all
[46:54] Speaker 1: the time, even if it's something healthy, we're requiring a
[46:57] Speaker 1: lot of energy from our organs. We're requiring a lot
[47:00] Speaker 1: of processes to happen over and over and over again.
[47:03] Speaker 1: So personally, I'm not so into inter minute fasting, but
[47:07] Speaker 1: I do try and space my meals out, and I
[47:10] Speaker 1: do try and you know, take a look at what's
[47:12] Speaker 1: going on with my meals and my blood sugar if
[47:14] Speaker 1: I can't make it, you know, four hours until dinner time,
[47:17] Speaker 1: because that's kind of a sign again that you have
[47:20] Speaker 1: to work a little bit on your blood sugar in
[47:22] Speaker 1: order to get there.
[47:23] Speaker 2: So that makes so much sense, because that's why in
[47:25] Speaker 2: our Veda talks about having a minimum of three hour
[47:29] Speaker 2: gap between your meals, minimum of three hours, but it's
[47:33] Speaker 2: never been explained to me like that. But it also
[47:35] Speaker 2: makes sense because it says that when you end up eating,
[47:40] Speaker 2: when you end up eating again off your body is
[47:42] Speaker 2: still processing food and still eliminating food from your body.
[47:46] Speaker 2: It increases the likelihood of toxins building up, which is
[47:49] Speaker 2: similar to what you're saying. The toxins build up in
[47:51] Speaker 2: your gut, in your body, and so then that those
[47:53] Speaker 2: toxins end up causing gas floating and all those other bits,
[47:57] Speaker 2: because it's basically the food is fermenting in your stomach.
[47:59] Speaker 2: You're not giving it have time to fully process through.
[48:04] Speaker 1: And then you're giving the bacteria even more recent to
[48:06] Speaker 1: stick around.
[48:07] Speaker 2: Yeah, I didn't realize that that mechanism doesn't kick in,
[48:10] Speaker 2: Yeah till nineteen minutes off CBE.
[48:12] Speaker 1: And I will say, there are all these other things
[48:14] Speaker 1: that you know can cause dysfunction, with the migraine motor
[48:17] Speaker 1: complex hashimotives being one of them. You know, a lot
[48:20] Speaker 1: of autoimmune issues being part of that picture. A lot
[48:22] Speaker 1: of people with Celiac disease also, you know, kind of
[48:25] Speaker 1: have issues with their motility. But yeah, that's kind of
[48:29] Speaker 1: like a big piece of the pie. And people who
[48:31] Speaker 1: get CIBO. And I will also say, because you know
[48:34] Speaker 1: it's kind of cold season, flu season, any sort of
[48:38] Speaker 1: food poisoning or like stomach bug, you know, you may
[48:42] Speaker 1: not notice it in the moment. Well you'll notice it
[48:44] Speaker 1: in the moment. You'll be miserable in the moment in
[48:46] Speaker 1: terms of a stomach bug, but you know, a week
[48:48] Speaker 1: later you may feel back to normal. But it's what
[48:52] Speaker 1: happens three weeks or a month after that, once our
[48:55] Speaker 1: nerve damage has had the time to kind of kick in,
[48:59] Speaker 1: and the stagnation builds over time, and then it becomes
[49:02] Speaker 1: really hard for people to connect any sort of digestive
[49:06] Speaker 1: issues with what happened like a month before.
[49:08] Speaker 2: That's what happened to my friend who was saying that,
[49:10] Speaker 2: I say, two people said they go food poisoning and
[49:12] Speaker 2: then directly off to that CIBO. So what's the difference
[49:15] Speaker 2: between CIBO and IBS then.
[49:17] Speaker 1: So a lot of specialists say that there's a pretty
[49:20] Speaker 1: big overlap. You know, IBS is kind of this like
[49:23] Speaker 1: blanket band aid diagnosis. It's really just a collection of symptoms.
[49:28] Speaker 1: It's not really an explanation for why they're happening. And
[49:31] Speaker 1: so a lot of people do think that CEBO, you know,
[49:35] Speaker 1: covers a large portion of the IBS population, but there
[49:39] Speaker 1: are other things too, these you know, yeast or fungal overgrowth,
[49:42] Speaker 1: cee FOE and you know, many other things that it
[49:45] Speaker 1: can be. Cebo's becoming one of the easier ones to
[49:48] Speaker 1: test for. So I think that's why it's feeling more common,
[49:52] Speaker 1: especially as awareness grows within the medical community and people
[49:55] Speaker 1: think to test for it. But it's not always the
[49:58] Speaker 1: only thing. And then it there is often an overlap,
[50:01] Speaker 1: you know, with a fungal or YaST growth too, because
[50:04] Speaker 1: it's really a mechanical issue. Yes, so anything can overgrow
[50:08] Speaker 1: if you have, you know, the mechanical issue.
[50:10] Speaker 2: What can people do to avoid getting sebo or the
[50:12] Speaker 2: specific foods not to eat?
[50:14] Speaker 1: No, So I think it's less again about the foods
[50:17] Speaker 1: and more about just like keeping your motility in the
[50:20] Speaker 1: back of your mind, changing how you eat. I say,
[50:23] Speaker 1: like chewing your food. It's like such a common sense thing,
[50:26] Speaker 1: but like we really don't do it, and you know,
[50:28] Speaker 1: just giving our digestive system the leg up that it
[50:31] Speaker 1: was intended to have versus like, you know, swallowing our
[50:34] Speaker 1: food whole.
[50:35] Speaker 2: So many of us do. I literally have to consciously
[50:38] Speaker 2: sit and tell myself, I suddenly notice how chewing and
[50:41] Speaker 2: I'm takeing five bites and I'm swallowing it. And my
[50:44] Speaker 2: granddad always used to say, we have to take like
[50:46] Speaker 2: thirty bites before you swallow and then watch him and
[50:50] Speaker 2: he would be really particular about it. Make all of
[50:52] Speaker 2: us do it.
[50:53] Speaker 1: And now our mother was the same way. She was
[50:54] Speaker 1: like the last person by half an hour at the table.
[50:56] Speaker 2: We're all like, yes, but imagine how good digestion was.
[51:03] Speaker 1: Yeah, so I think that's something to pay attention to.
[51:06] Speaker 1: And then honestly, like our sleep and our stress levels.
[51:08] Speaker 1: They really do affect our motility, they affect our digest
[51:11] Speaker 1: and they affect our blood sugar. And then, you know,
[51:14] Speaker 1: I'll just like caveat some things that were said earlier
[51:17] Speaker 1: because now that we're talking about cbel you'll understand why.
[51:19] Speaker 1: But some people with ce bow, you know, blood sugar
[51:22] Speaker 1: may come second, Like you may want to have those
[51:24] Speaker 1: smoothies or those you know, purade soups, broads, things that
[51:27] Speaker 1: are kind of easier again that like don't require so
[51:31] Speaker 1: much work for your digestive system because it is, you know,
[51:35] Speaker 1: under fire, it's not functioning optimally to begin with.
[51:38] Speaker 2: You mentioned intimate enfosting idea, and in your book you
[51:42] Speaker 2: say that especially for women, that intimate and fostering isn't recommended.
[51:47] Speaker 2: So would you recommend intimate enfosting to people.
[51:50] Speaker 1: Or I think again, there's like such a broad range
[51:53] Speaker 1: of how people apply that. You know, like twelve hours
[51:57] Speaker 1: for me, that's easy. I don't even have to think
[51:58] Speaker 1: about that. You usually go to twelve hours, and that
[52:01] Speaker 1: for some people is considered into minute fasting. I don't
[52:03] Speaker 1: think of it as that. I think of that as
[52:05] Speaker 1: like a good spacing. But you know, going like sixteen
[52:09] Speaker 1: and basically anything that can be read by the body
[52:13] Speaker 1: is starving. I don't think is helpful for women. Again, yes,
[52:17] Speaker 1: it increases our stress hormones, and if we're already stressed out,
[52:21] Speaker 1: which like let's be honest, like we all are, then
[52:23] Speaker 1: that's only going to kind of light some of those
[52:26] Speaker 1: symptoms on fire. And then again for women in their
[52:28] Speaker 1: child bearing years, you know, I think any sign of starvation,
[52:32] Speaker 1: you know, that's a sign in the body that it's
[52:33] Speaker 1: not a good time to incubate another life. So it's
[52:36] Speaker 1: just something to think about if you are trying to
[52:39] Speaker 1: conceive or you know, have that on your mind at all.
[52:42] Speaker 2: Yeah, I think we always see stress in the physical
[52:46] Speaker 2: body in terms of in the mind. We always think
[52:48] Speaker 2: of stress as being I'm anxious or I feel stressed.
[52:52] Speaker 2: But I think sometimes we miss the symptoms of stress
[52:54] Speaker 2: that our physical body tells us well, the things that
[52:57] Speaker 2: we're doing that is putting stress on all bodies. And
[53:00] Speaker 2: I think that mind shift is really important because even
[53:03] Speaker 2: certain workouts or exercises that women do, like high intensity
[53:07] Speaker 2: interval training, actually for someone with hormonal issues, thyroid issues,
[53:11] Speaker 2: actually doing these high intensity training workouts can throw off
[53:15] Speaker 2: your hormones so much can throw off so much in
[53:18] Speaker 2: your body and create more stress and more harm than good.
[53:22] Speaker 2: And so yeah, I think that's a that's really tricky
[53:25] Speaker 2: because you're like, oh, I really want to lose weight
[53:27] Speaker 2: or I really want to get fit, so I'm going
[53:29] Speaker 2: to do all this intense work and then you don't
[53:31] Speaker 2: realize it's raising your quarters ale levels. So what happens
[53:33] Speaker 2: when your quarterle levels rise, your body's holding onto the
[53:36] Speaker 2: fat more than they usually work exactly, and then you'll
[53:39] Speaker 2: keep doing all these intense workouts and you're thinking, why
[53:41] Speaker 2: am I not losing weight when when I'm trying so hard,
[53:44] Speaker 2: I'm eating the right foods because your body's holding onto it.
[53:47] Speaker 2: And so doing lower impact workouts walking sometimes you'll notice
[53:51] Speaker 2: that you'll reduce all these high intense workouts start just
[53:54] Speaker 2: simply walking or doing weight training that isn't too intense,
[53:58] Speaker 2: and your body's like slowly, genterly letting go.
[54:01] Speaker 1: I think you know, most people, at least those who
[54:04] Speaker 1: are kind of wellness oriented and paying attention, you know,
[54:08] Speaker 1: to a lot of these conversations. It is not high
[54:11] Speaker 1: intensity anything that we need, like we need to be gentler,
[54:15] Speaker 1: like everything would probably be better if we're just a
[54:18] Speaker 1: little bit into living.
[54:19] Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like I need more. I feel like
[54:21] Speaker 2: it's a lot of.
[54:22] Speaker 1: People we saybo too. It's like everyone wants to muscle
[54:25] Speaker 1: through it, and unfortunately, like you kind of just have
[54:27] Speaker 1: to extend the runway and be willing to just be
[54:30] Speaker 1: gentle for a long stretch of time, and the.
[54:33] Speaker 2: Healing process longer generally is always better. Like even in Ivade,
[54:37] Speaker 2: it talks about how we're so used to all these
[54:40] Speaker 2: quick fixes, and that's just in every single part of
[54:43] Speaker 2: our life. And the problem is everything becomes faster, and
[54:45] Speaker 2: then we become faster, and then our expectations like I mean, look,
[54:50] Speaker 2: I love Amazon, but like even the fact that we're
[54:52] Speaker 2: so used to like oh I want this and I
[54:54] Speaker 2: can have it in twenty four hours. But then our
[54:56] Speaker 2: mind becomes like that with our body too, and it's like,
[54:59] Speaker 2: but how long have you been damaging your body for?
[55:02] Speaker 2: And you're aspecting the result of health and wellness within
[55:06] Speaker 2: twenty four hours forty eight hours a week, and so
[55:10] Speaker 2: you have to think about the amount of time that
[55:11] Speaker 2: you have spent harming your body potentially, and then think
[55:15] Speaker 2: about at least of that amount of time to help
[55:17] Speaker 2: heal it. Your body will take time to get used
[55:20] Speaker 2: to your new habits, and so giving yourself time is
[55:23] Speaker 2: so important. Should you modify your carbohydrate intake doing pregnancy
[55:27] Speaker 2: and breastfeeding or can you keep it the same?
[55:30] Speaker 1: You know, I think there I've never breastped, but I
[55:35] Speaker 1: think a lot of people actually do require more carbs
[55:37] Speaker 1: because again, you're, you know, using a lot of energy
[55:40] Speaker 1: in the body to produce breast milk to feed another thing.
[55:43] Speaker 1: So I think it's yeah, one of those areas where
[55:45] Speaker 1: complex carbs are really important. And again complex cars just
[55:48] Speaker 1: need starches, so whole grains and adding things like that
[55:51] Speaker 1: whenever possible, and just not being too you know, too
[55:55] Speaker 1: worried about you know, the carb counts and things, you know,
[55:59] Speaker 1: simple sugar. But again, it's like when you're kind of
[56:01] Speaker 1: running on fumes, like you do need a little bit
[56:04] Speaker 1: more help in terms of readily available energy a lot
[56:07] Speaker 1: of the time, like digestion is not where it needs
[56:11] Speaker 1: to be postpartums. So yeah, just being again a little
[56:15] Speaker 1: gentle with yourself and paying attention to what actually makes
[56:19] Speaker 1: you feel fueled. You don't really want to like restrict
[56:23] Speaker 1: in that time period.
[56:23] Speaker 2: You know that reminded me of the other thing that
[56:25] Speaker 2: I had to change when it came to cutting out
[56:28] Speaker 2: sugar was also all the lifestyle habits that were surrounding that.
[56:32] Speaker 2: Because if I was running from thing to think to thing,
[56:35] Speaker 2: and I was in high anxiety, you need.
[56:37] Speaker 1: A quick fix.
[56:38] Speaker 2: I just I'm like, I just need something, And so
[56:41] Speaker 2: slowing down and being an even if it's just the
[56:44] Speaker 2: small amount of stone and cutting one thing out of
[56:45] Speaker 2: my day made such a difference the pacing of my
[56:48] Speaker 2: life as I changed that. It really helped with not
[56:53] Speaker 2: craving as much and also having more time to like
[56:56] Speaker 2: invest into what foods am I eating. Of course I'm
[56:59] Speaker 2: going to be craving sugar because my meals weren't substantial.
[57:02] Speaker 2: I didn't have the right balance of nutrients that I needed.
[57:04] Speaker 2: I didn't have the right balance of all the food
[57:07] Speaker 2: groups that I needed. So half an hour after that,
[57:10] Speaker 2: I'm hungry again because and then I want the instant
[57:13] Speaker 2: fuel because I don't have time to think about how
[57:15] Speaker 2: to make other things. So that was something that really
[57:18] Speaker 2: helped me too.
[57:19] Speaker 1: Yeah, I would say nutrient density something focused on. Yeah,
[57:22] Speaker 1: but that doesn't mean low carb. It's adding more more
[57:27] Speaker 1: good instead of like taking away. So add some nuts
[57:30] Speaker 1: and seeds to your oatmeal and actually different alm and
[57:34] Speaker 1: butter and you'll be good, all.
[57:36] Speaker 2: Right, myth or truth, let's do it. Bread in Europe
[57:39] Speaker 2: is better than bread in the USA. Better for you.
[57:43] Speaker 1: Okay, I would say truth, I'm really bad, I guess
[57:46] Speaker 1: or no questions by the way, I'm like, but I
[57:47] Speaker 1: would love to explain, but you okay.
[57:50] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[57:51] Speaker 1: So bread is a really interesting one and kind of
[57:53] Speaker 1: goes back. And I actually like talking about pasta too,
[57:55] Speaker 1: because a lot of people, again I've been gluten free
[57:57] Speaker 1: for fifteen years, a lot of people are like, oh,
[57:59] Speaker 1: I go to Europe and I eat pasta and Italy
[58:01] Speaker 1: and I feel totally fine. But when I'm here, I'm
[58:03] Speaker 1: really bloated. Or I go to you know, France and
[58:05] Speaker 1: I epagetz and it's like totally fine. But I eat
[58:07] Speaker 1: you know, sandwich bread in the US and I feel
[58:09] Speaker 1: like crap. And really, I think, you know, there is
[58:13] Speaker 1: a narrative to be had about again, how things are grown.
[58:17] Speaker 1: That round up isn't used over there as much, but
[58:20] Speaker 1: you know there things are slipping over there as well.
[58:24] Speaker 1: But I think it's more about like the artisanal methods
[58:27] Speaker 1: of how we make our food. And that's why I love,
[58:30] Speaker 1: you know, why it's important to me to write a
[58:32] Speaker 1: cookbook instead of just like a book about all this stuff,
[58:36] Speaker 1: because how we prepare our food really does affect our
[58:38] Speaker 1: blood sugar really does affect our digestion. And you know,
[58:42] Speaker 1: in terms of you know, authentic sourdough, the slow the
[58:46] Speaker 1: slow process, the slow rise time, the fermentation that takes time,
[58:52] Speaker 1: our bacteria is actually eating some of the carb count,
[58:55] Speaker 1: it's eating some of the gluten, you know, and it's
[58:57] Speaker 1: just maybe going to be a little bit easier to
[58:59] Speaker 1: digest as the result for people and give people a
[59:02] Speaker 1: little steadier blood sugar as a result. But the pasta
[59:06] Speaker 1: situation I think is really interesting. So in Italy, you know,
[59:10] Speaker 1: the way that authentically or historically traditionally you make pastas
[59:14] Speaker 1: to slow dry it, you know sometimes outside, you know,
[59:19] Speaker 1: to get it hard. And people are saying, oh, well,
[59:21] Speaker 1: like you know, Italian pasta is lower in gluten because
[59:24] Speaker 1: of you know, the type of flower they use, and
[59:26] Speaker 1: I'm like, no, honey, it's actually higher in gluten because
[59:30] Speaker 1: it's semolina flower. It's actually a high protein glutens of protein,
[59:34] Speaker 1: high gluten flower because you want your pasta to have
[59:36] Speaker 1: that beautiful bite and elasticity, you want it to wind
[59:40] Speaker 1: around a noodle properly. So the Italians know that because
[59:43] Speaker 1: they know everything. But what they do is, you know,
[59:47] Speaker 1: instead of kind of flash drying it in an industrial process,
[59:51] Speaker 1: and of course like some Italian brands do that too,
[59:53] Speaker 1: I mean industrialized food. But the difference there is in
[59:58] Speaker 1: just what happens to the gluten. So if you think
[1:00:00] Speaker 1: about how you cook, you know, animal protein. Sorry, but
[1:00:04] Speaker 1: if you take a steak and you put it in
[1:00:05] Speaker 1: a hot skillet, it's going to shrink up and like
[1:00:08] Speaker 1: really really constrict. And that's what happens with protein. So
[1:00:11] Speaker 1: the same thing happens in our pasta when we change
[1:00:14] Speaker 1: the temperature drastically and really quickly, is that the gluten
[1:00:17] Speaker 1: is just going to be like much more of a
[1:00:19] Speaker 1: tight knit sweater versus like a nice loose weave, and
[1:00:22] Speaker 1: that's going to be a lot harder for our gut
[1:00:24] Speaker 1: to process. So it's just one of the reasons, and
[1:00:26] Speaker 1: it's not the only reason, but it's the one I
[1:00:28] Speaker 1: feel like is not talked about enough in terms of
[1:00:31] Speaker 1: our digestive system.
[1:00:32] Speaker 2: So you're saying that the ones that are done industrially.
[1:00:35] Speaker 2: The way that they do the heating process is worse
[1:00:38] Speaker 2: because in Italy they sun dry them.
[1:00:41] Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just a slower process. And you can find,
[1:00:43] Speaker 1: you know, brands that do sell here that say Lenta
[1:00:47] Speaker 1: on the front or it'll say slow dried. And that's
[1:00:49] Speaker 1: just something to keep in mind.
[1:00:50] Speaker 2: Oh my god, that's such a good hag. Okay, slow
[1:00:53] Speaker 2: drive pasta everyone.
[1:00:54] Speaker 1: Yeah, you don't have to go to Italy. You can
[1:00:55] Speaker 1: look on the and it really is just on the
[1:00:58] Speaker 1: supermarket shelf you can usually find it.
[1:00:59] Speaker 2: So good to know, actually sour doough bread is better
[1:01:02] Speaker 2: for you. Yes, okay, great. Calbs make you bloated?
[1:01:08] Speaker 1: Oh myth, Yeah, myth.
[1:01:12] Speaker 2: All carbs cause glucose spikes.
[1:01:15] Speaker 1: Oh that's a tricky one. I mean, I would say fact,
[1:01:20] Speaker 1: but you know it depends what type of carb.
[1:01:24] Speaker 2: You know, and gucospipes are normal.
[1:01:26] Speaker 1: Yeah exactly. Yeah, there you go.
[1:01:30] Speaker 2: Calbs make you fat.
[1:01:32] Speaker 1: Again, like myth doesn't have to again, it depends how
[1:01:36] Speaker 1: high that glucose spike is going in your insolent situation.
[1:01:39] Speaker 2: Thank you so much. This has honestly been like one
[1:01:43] Speaker 2: of the most informative I'm so sorry. I shot so
[1:01:46] Speaker 2: many questions at you, but I thought it was such
[1:01:48] Speaker 2: an interesting topic and I really appreciate the way that
[1:01:51] Speaker 2: you shared. It made so much sense. And I feel like,
[1:01:53] Speaker 2: hopefully carb before your new incredible book and this conversation
[1:01:58] Speaker 2: will help people love carbs and they're bodies a lot
[1:02:00] Speaker 2: more and I really hope that. So thank you so much,
[1:02:04] Speaker 2: thank you.
[1:02:05] Speaker 1: That's my mission. Thank you for sharing it.
[1:02:07] Speaker 2: Of course. M

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