# Exploring Emotional Healing Through Music: Owen Grover's Inspiring Story and Insights

An episode of [Music Saved Me Podcast](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1703080557), 29 Apr 2026, 34 min.

Audio: https://podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/ee29bc0a-f712-47d6-a49c-b25700f0582e/2beba539-b3bf-4fbd-85a5-b438014cd45a/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=dfceda02-3624-42c7-b522-b25700f0584c

What if the soundtrack of your life could not only heal your heart but also guide you through the darkest times? Join us on this profound journey in the latest episode of the Music Saved Me Podcast, where host Lynn Hoffman sits down with Owen Grover, a trailblazer at the crossroads of music and technology. Owen's story is not just about his impressive career; it's a heartfelt exploration of how music has been his sanctuary, especially following the tragic loss of his brother in 1997. From his childhood memories of dancing to The Beatles to his experiences playing various instruments, Owen Grover reflects on the healing power of music and its role in shaping his identity. He shares poignant moments that highlight the emotional connection we all have with music, including the profound impact of songs like 'Einstein's Day' by Mission of Burma during his times of grief. This episode dives deep into the emotional healing through music and how it can serve as a lifeline when life gets tough. As a key figure in the music industry, Owen's professional journey is equally inspiring. He was instrumental in the founding of iHeartRadio and is currently making waves with his work at Nomono, a Norwegian audio technology company. His insights provide a unique perspective on the intersection of music and mental health, especially through his role on the board of Sounds of Saving, an organization dedicated to using music as therapy for young people facing mental health challenges. Throughout the episode, Owen Grover emphasizes the responsibility of the music industry to address mental health issues and the transformative potential of technology in enhancing the creator experience. His experiences and insights resonate with independent musicians and anyone interested in the stories of musicians who have used their art as a means of survival and resilience. Join us for this engaging interview podcast that not only celebrates music history but also sheds light on the critical role it plays in our lives. Discover how the Music Saved Me Podcast brings together the worlds of music and emotional connection, and learn how you can harness the music and mental health dialogue to foster your own emotional well-being. Tune in for a conversation filled with warmth, authenticity, and the healing power of music—it just might change your perspective on the impact of music in your life! Support the show: https://musicsavedme.net/ See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:00] Speaker 1: Music Saved Me.
[0:01] Speaker 2: He has spent more than two decades living at the
[0:04] Speaker 2: crossroads of music and technology, and the passion behind all
[0:07] Speaker 2: of it has always been very deeply personal. Owen Grover
[0:11] Speaker 2: was a founding member of the iHeartRadio team, helped launch
[0:14] Speaker 2: the iHeartRadio Music Awards, served as CEO of the global
[0:18] Speaker 2: podcasting platform Pocket Casts, and he led Truefire Studios, the
[0:23] Speaker 2: world's premier online music education platform. And in his free
[0:27] Speaker 2: time he's joined Namono, leading the Norwegian audio tech company.
[0:32] Speaker 2: He's a very busy man, and he's also a board
[0:34] Speaker 2: member of Sounds of Saving, a nonprofit that harnesses music
[0:38] Speaker 2: as a bridge to mental health and wellness for young people. Now,
[0:41] Speaker 2: Owen Grover knows firsthand that music isn't just entertainment, it
[0:45] Speaker 2: is truly a lifeline. This is Music Saved Me. I'm
[0:49] Speaker 2: Lynn Hoffman and Owen Grover is next. Don't go anywhere.
[0:56] Speaker 1: Music Saved Me.
[0:57] Speaker 2: So Owen, welcome to Music Save Me. It's really really
[1:00] Speaker 2: an honor to have you here. You've built a career
[1:05] Speaker 2: sort of at the intersection of music and technology. But
[1:07] Speaker 2: before all of that, I want to know what your
[1:10] Speaker 2: personal relationship with music was growing up, Like was there
[1:13] Speaker 2: a moment when you realize music just hit you in
[1:16] Speaker 2: a certain way that you knew was going to be
[1:18] Speaker 2: important in your life.
[1:19] Speaker 1: I don't remember a time when music wasn't important in
[1:22] Speaker 1: my life. I have very strong memories of being in
[1:26] Speaker 1: my early childhood bedroom and my parents had a small
[1:31] Speaker 1: integrated Fisher Price style a record player, and I very
[1:36] Speaker 1: distinctly remember listening to Beatles forty fives. Again, I was
[1:39] Speaker 1: too young to have my own taste, but my parents
[1:41] Speaker 1: thankfully understood the enduring power of the Fab four and
[1:46] Speaker 1: so that was piped in to my ear drums. And
[1:50] Speaker 1: remember buying my first albums back then that was cassettes.
[1:56] Speaker 1: I can remember my first concert so well. I had
[1:58] Speaker 1: an older brother who was every and half years older
[2:00] Speaker 1: than me, was also incredibly influential in my life in
[2:04] Speaker 1: terms of helping to develop my musical sensibilities. And I
[2:09] Speaker 1: played music as a child. I played piano, I played saxophone.
[2:13] Speaker 1: I don't think I was very good at it. And
[2:15] Speaker 1: then starting in the eighth grade, I've played in bands
[2:17] Speaker 1: pretty much throughout high school and into college. So I
[2:20] Speaker 1: think it's fair to say that music has had an
[2:22] Speaker 1: impact on every facet of my life going back to
[2:25] Speaker 1: when I was just a teeny teeny tiny toddler.
[2:28] Speaker 2: That's for sure. And thankfully your parents had good taste
[2:31] Speaker 2: and your.
[2:31] Speaker 1: Brother, yeah, excellent tist.
[2:33] Speaker 2: Yes, there's a many stories of the Beatles affecting people.
[2:37] Speaker 2: It's definitely a thread throughout most people. I'd say our
[2:42] Speaker 2: age and up, or maybe even younger, but they were
[2:46] Speaker 2: very influential. So the show's called Music Save Me. What
[2:51] Speaker 2: does the phrase mean to you personally? I mean, is
[2:53] Speaker 2: there a specific song or an artist, or maybe like
[2:55] Speaker 2: a moment in your life where music genuinely pulled you
[2:58] Speaker 2: through something difficult?
[3:00] Speaker 1: Many, many moments. I'll point to one. I mentioned my brother.
[3:04] Speaker 1: He sadly passed away in nineteen ninety seven, and losing
[3:08] Speaker 1: a sibling, as to anyone who's been through that kind
[3:10] Speaker 1: of grieving nose is incredibly hard. And he was such
[3:14] Speaker 1: an important presence in my life. Because of the age difference,
[3:18] Speaker 1: we were never directly competitive, but he always had really
[3:23] Speaker 1: unorthodox tastes and music. It was really heavily into new
[3:27] Speaker 1: wave and loved bands like Jesus and Mary Chain, the
[3:31] Speaker 1: Cured pesch Mode also loved Clash with the Clash and
[3:36] Speaker 1: other early punk star Warks like the sex Pistols and
[3:38] Speaker 1: the Buzzcocks, and that stuff just made a really early
[3:42] Speaker 1: impression on me. I would just read his music collection.
[3:45] Speaker 1: When he passed. In nineteen ninety seven, I was listening
[3:48] Speaker 1: a lot to a Boston band called Mission of Burma
[3:53] Speaker 1: that was a little before my time, but they were
[3:54] Speaker 1: a great, really intense, fun, sort of post punk, angular
[4:00] Speaker 1: loud band, but they also had quiet moments. And there's
[4:03] Speaker 1: a song that they have called Einstein's Day that really
[4:07] Speaker 1: meant a lot to me during those times. It has
[4:09] Speaker 1: a kind of coiled slow builds to it, and it's
[4:14] Speaker 1: just full of feeling. And it's not even so much
[4:17] Speaker 1: that the lyrics themselves were directly relevant, but it made
[4:20] Speaker 1: me feel something at a time when it felt so
[4:23] Speaker 1: hard to tap in because I was shut down to
[4:27] Speaker 1: protect myself from the pain and the upset of having
[4:30] Speaker 1: lost my brother. So music was an outlet for me
[4:34] Speaker 1: to remind myself that I'm a human, I have the emotions,
[4:40] Speaker 1: and helped me through my griefing process.
[4:42] Speaker 2: If you want, I mean, I'd love to hear other examples,
[4:47] Speaker 2: because that is certainly a powerful example of that. First
[4:49] Speaker 2: of all, I also didn't I'm from Boston. I had
[4:52] Speaker 2: never heard of that band before, so I want to
[4:56] Speaker 2: check it out.
[4:57] Speaker 1: And they actually continue to put out records long after
[5:00] Speaker 1: their original pop in the early eighties. You remember, you
[5:03] Speaker 1: remember the DJ music producer Moby He He actually covered
[5:08] Speaker 1: one of their songs when he was sort of at
[5:10] Speaker 1: his peak, and I think it came some folks on,
[5:12] Speaker 1: but I'm a big fan of theirs. There are lots
[5:15] Speaker 1: of other examples. I can remember being in the fourth grade.
[5:20] Speaker 1: I went from one school that was in my neighborhood
[5:23] Speaker 1: to another school that was a private school, and I
[5:27] Speaker 1: didn't feel like I fit in at all, and I
[5:29] Speaker 1: felt really alone. And I was listening a lot to
[5:33] Speaker 1: Mirage by Fleetwood Mac at the time. And you know,
[5:37] Speaker 1: there were two big singles off of that record. One
[5:39] Speaker 1: of them was holding Me, which, obviously you know, when
[5:41] Speaker 1: you're not feeling like you fit in and you want
[5:44] Speaker 1: to belong you want to feel a sense of belonging
[5:46] Speaker 1: in can companionship. There's nothing like hearing hold me right,
[5:49] Speaker 1: hold Me, make me feel better, comfort me, and such
[5:52] Speaker 1: a beautiful song with great harmonies. I also love that
[5:55] Speaker 1: it's Christine mcviee singing the lyric. She has such a
[5:59] Speaker 1: beautiful And the other one on that record that I
[6:02] Speaker 1: still so moosney deeply is Gypsy, which has this incredible
[6:07] Speaker 1: lead vocal by the Queen, by the Queen Steph Nicks,
[6:11] Speaker 1: So yeah, and she's wonderful, And so you know, look,
[6:14] Speaker 1: I listened to a lot of really heavy, little, really
[6:16] Speaker 1: angry music, but I also listened to music that's a
[6:20] Speaker 1: little more subtle and emotional. And in the case of
[6:25] Speaker 1: Fleetwood Mac, I feel like they write such layered, beautiful compositions.
[6:30] Speaker 1: So those songs I remember were sustenance to me during
[6:32] Speaker 1: the time when I felt really, really isolated. And the
[6:35] Speaker 1: other song, interestingly was Steve Winwood's Ballery, which has been
[6:40] Speaker 1: covered and made into a dance song, and like it's
[6:43] Speaker 1: had many lives, it's a very interesting song, but there's
[6:46] Speaker 1: something about the way he sings, and as a fourth
[6:49] Speaker 1: grade and eight year old, it just it had such
[6:51] Speaker 1: an impact on me big time. The songs were almost
[6:55] Speaker 1: like a little sad, you know, like that song's a
[6:57] Speaker 1: little sad, but actually, sometimes when you're feeling bad and
[7:00] Speaker 1: you're feeling isolated, or you're feeling low, there's nothing like
[7:04] Speaker 1: a sad song to really let you feel alive. I'm
[7:08] Speaker 1: a big proponent of lean into the sadness when you're
[7:10] Speaker 1: feeling and when you're feeling at low.
[7:11] Speaker 2: Yeah, it's interesting. It's almost like it's a double negative
[7:14] Speaker 2: that turns positive because you could take you know, you
[7:17] Speaker 2: feel you don't feel alone. Well said, you were a
[7:20] Speaker 2: founding member of iHeartRadio, the team at a time when
[7:26] Speaker 2: digital music was just starting to reshape everything in our world.
[7:29] Speaker 2: What was the energy like in those early days. Did
[7:32] Speaker 2: you feel like you were, you know, building something that
[7:34] Speaker 2: could change people's lives. I can't This was what right
[7:37] Speaker 2: around two thousand ish.
[7:39] Speaker 1: This was a little later, it was two thousand and seven.
[7:41] Speaker 1: Two thousand and eight was when we really started to
[7:44] Speaker 1: bring the brand to fruition and the brands had many lives,
[7:46] Speaker 1: But the team that originally started this was sort of
[7:48] Speaker 1: a ragtag crew of sort of digital specialists inside what
[7:53] Speaker 1: was then an enormous radio company. I think at the
[7:56] Speaker 1: time the company owned eleven hundred and eighty stations across
[7:59] Speaker 1: the United States and in close to nine hundred markets.
[8:04] Speaker 1: The company iHeart needed It still owns I think eight
[8:06] Speaker 1: hundred and fifty stations or so. But it was even
[8:08] Speaker 1: bigger then, and they had just spun off, you know,
[8:10] Speaker 1: the Live of the Vents business, which became, you know,
[8:13] Speaker 1: the biggest concept promoter in the world, essentially a live nation.
[8:17] Speaker 1: And so it was a some of great change inside
[8:18] Speaker 1: the organization. And you know, our mission there was to
[8:21] Speaker 1: actually build a substantial digital platform. And what we noticed
[8:24] Speaker 1: was was that this thing that people were carrying in
[8:27] Speaker 1: their pockets was becoming away, you know, not just the phone,
[8:30] Speaker 1: but a way for people to access content and music.
[8:33] Speaker 1: And when the app store launched, my boss at the
[8:35] Speaker 1: time a lovely man called Evan Harrison, who's out in
[8:38] Speaker 1: the world doing great work. You really should talk to him.
[8:40] Speaker 2: I'm writing it down.
[8:42] Speaker 1: Evan Harrison, lovely man, and he's in the not for
[8:45] Speaker 1: profit world too. He's really a special guy. He really
[8:49] Speaker 1: challenged us to find a way to make our radio
[8:53] Speaker 1: stations live in this new world. And so it wasn't
[8:58] Speaker 1: the original move mo to sort of desktop internet. It
[9:01] Speaker 1: was really in the wake of the move from desktop
[9:05] Speaker 1: to mobile that I Heart came into being, which was
[9:09] Speaker 1: in many ways just as profound a shift. But to
[9:12] Speaker 1: answer to your question, the energy was chaotic, It was
[9:16] Speaker 1: incredibly innovative. We were doing things that had not been
[9:20] Speaker 1: attempted at a traditional media company before. We were, in
[9:23] Speaker 1: some ways swimming against the grain. It was often a
[9:28] Speaker 1: subject of some contention even with our beloved radio markets,
[9:32] Speaker 1: to get them to think about the digital audience, to
[9:35] Speaker 1: get them to promote the radio station website. And then
[9:38] Speaker 1: this thing comes along, and it's very easy if you
[9:41] Speaker 1: have a particular mindset, to imagine that this could be
[9:43] Speaker 1: even competitive. But instead, what we were doing was we
[9:46] Speaker 1: were trying to showcase all of these great radio stations
[9:48] Speaker 1: that we had and the personalities and digital only offerings
[9:52] Speaker 1: in a way that made it convenient to the listeners.
[9:54] Speaker 1: And I just think that that, you know, these kinds
[9:57] Speaker 1: of tectonic shifts can really make break you as a company,
[10:02] Speaker 1: as an individual, but they're special moments that create special outcomes.
[10:06] Speaker 2: Absolutely. It's funny because when you said two thousand and eight,
[10:10] Speaker 2: it just feels like it's been around a lot longer,
[10:13] Speaker 2: you know.
[10:13] Speaker 1: What I mean.
[10:14] Speaker 2: It's crazy. In two thousand and two, I believe, was
[10:18] Speaker 2: that MTV Network's launch into digital, because that's when I
[10:20] Speaker 2: started working for the VH one Classic and they had
[10:24] Speaker 2: never done that either, and it was crazy at crazy
[10:27] Speaker 2: times but for television for some reason, they saw that
[10:31] Speaker 2: you mentioned radio. It's almost impossible to find people who
[10:34] Speaker 2: had that vision down the road. Everyone was so much
[10:37] Speaker 2: more focused on today versus in the future. So that
[10:41] Speaker 2: must have been difficult for you to get people's minds
[10:44] Speaker 2: or to influence them in a positive way, to get
[10:46] Speaker 2: them to move forward. I couldn't even get my PD
[10:50] Speaker 2: to play a song unless it was tested for eight
[10:52] Speaker 2: or nine months.
[10:54] Speaker 1: And there were pds that we worked with that saw
[10:57] Speaker 1: the vision and were extremely supportive, and those continue to
[11:00] Speaker 1: have really wonderful careers. I worked really closely with Tom Pullman.
[11:04] Speaker 1: He was a terrific advocate for all things digital, and
[11:06] Speaker 1: there were people who were seamlessly going from one world
[11:10] Speaker 1: to the other. I really want to take a moment
[11:13] Speaker 1: to acknowledge Ena Burns, who was so pivotal worked both
[11:17] Speaker 1: in the digital team at you know, corporate you would say,
[11:22] Speaker 1: but also worked really closely with the with the New
[11:24] Speaker 1: York radio markets, and had a bird's eye view and
[11:28] Speaker 1: a worm's eye view of what digital meant as a
[11:31] Speaker 1: transformational set of technologies. UH for broadcast, and you know,
[11:36] Speaker 1: there's no iHeartRadio without I mentioned Evan, I mentioned Zena.
[11:40] Speaker 1: There's a bunch of other folks. I'd love to shout out,
[11:42] Speaker 1: Susie Schultz, who's still in the business and is amazing,
[11:45] Speaker 1: Larry Liniatsky, who's till incredible things at Amazon, the people
[11:48] Speaker 1: who were really there building something specially. I'm sure I'm
[11:51] Speaker 1: forgetting million names, and I apologize in advanced to all
[11:52] Speaker 1: my love the loved colleagues. But the people who were
[11:55] Speaker 1: there really digging in the dirt and trying to make
[11:58] Speaker 1: real things happen, you know them, because they're still out
[12:00] Speaker 1: there doing amazing things. Those folks that I mentioned are
[12:03] Speaker 1: still out there doing amazing things.
[12:05] Speaker 2: Oh and you can come back on and mention those
[12:07] Speaker 2: people you forgot again down there, because we'll have to.
[12:09] Speaker 2: I appreciate have a catchack a part two.
[12:12] Speaker 1: I appreciate that.
[12:12] Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, you just joined Noemono, which is a Norwegian
[12:16] Speaker 2: audio technology company. Tell us about the mission of the company.
[12:19] Speaker 2: It sounds really cool.
[12:21] Speaker 1: I love this company. I've been so excited since I've joined.
[12:24] Speaker 1: It's pretty extraordinary and I've spent quite a bit of
[12:27] Speaker 1: my time at the intersection of music and technology. But
[12:30] Speaker 1: also I've really loved my time in podcasting and spoken audio,
[12:36] Speaker 1: and here we are doing that thing right now. I
[12:40] Speaker 1: ran a podcasting platform called Pocketcast. I partnered to Public Media.
[12:44] Speaker 1: I've worked really closely with lots of creators in the space.
[12:47] Speaker 1: I'm a big, big proponent of spoken word audio. I'm
[12:50] Speaker 1: a diehard podcast listener. But creating audio is still quite
[12:54] Speaker 1: messy and difficult, and there's lots of steps to it,
[12:56] Speaker 1: and god forbid, you have to produce something outside of
[12:59] Speaker 1: the studio. There's cables and wires and expertise, and and
[13:03] Speaker 1: then you have to transfer that audio and into some
[13:06] Speaker 1: kind of post production workflow, and then you've got to
[13:08] Speaker 1: edit all the noise out, and there's just a lot
[13:11] Speaker 1: of work that needs to be done, a lot of
[13:13] Speaker 1: specific expertise. And what I love about pnemono is it
[13:15] Speaker 1: just it's like a storytelling engine and it just it
[13:20] Speaker 1: takes it takes all the chains, all of the effort,
[13:23] Speaker 1: all of the friction away from from this entire process,
[13:26] Speaker 1: everything from recording the audio. So it sounds incredible studio quality,
[13:30] Speaker 1: even if you're on like an airport term tarmback, you know,
[13:33] Speaker 1: to a to a set of really really well developed
[13:36] Speaker 1: cloud software features that allow you to do everything from
[13:40] Speaker 1: uh collaborate to edit, and then just a it's just
[13:44] Speaker 1: an industry leading suite of enhancements that take all of
[13:48] Speaker 1: that messy work of cleaning the audio out of your
[13:51] Speaker 1: hands and just handles it in one click and then
[13:54] Speaker 1: you can sink it to video. You can create a podcast, epyptote,
[13:57] Speaker 1: you can do lots of stuff. It's so powerful. But
[14:00] Speaker 1: but again features aside. What I love about it is
[14:04] Speaker 1: it's there to help a creator realize a vision. It
[14:08] Speaker 1: is a storytelling engine and with one simple set of hardware,
[14:14] Speaker 1: this and this the studio cloud I mentioned, you can
[14:18] Speaker 1: sound like a real pro working in a million dollar
[14:21] Speaker 1: studio or wherever you are. So to me, it's like,
[14:23] Speaker 1: are you doing something to move the creator experience forward?
[14:27] Speaker 1: Are you helping humans tell better stories? And that's what
[14:30] Speaker 1: this product and this team does. I'm so proud to
[14:33] Speaker 1: be working with them.
[14:34] Speaker 2: It sounds very exciting. Now, you were very careful not
[14:36] Speaker 2: to say the words. Well, not that you were very careful,
[14:38] Speaker 2: but you chose your words wisely because it can be
[14:41] Speaker 2: very polarizing. But it sounds like, uh, you know, AI
[14:46] Speaker 2: a mod of you know, type of tool for producers
[14:50] Speaker 2: and creators. Like you said, I find it to be
[14:53] Speaker 2: just the next level tool for a creator. Like you said,
[14:57] Speaker 2: that can help them sound professional. And that's only a
[15:00] Speaker 2: benefit for those creators who feel like they can't do
[15:04] Speaker 2: that right now. Like a truck just drove by, and
[15:07] Speaker 2: I thought, if we listened to this back and you
[15:08] Speaker 2: could hear that truck, we can take it out with that.
[15:12] Speaker 1: Somona does it automatically. It's the thing you don't have
[15:15] Speaker 1: to see your dialing up knobs or you know, hitting
[15:20] Speaker 1: faders or acting expensive plug ins or any post processing headaches. Look,
[15:26] Speaker 1: the fact of matters. The mono has seventeen different AI
[15:28] Speaker 1: and mL patent families. It's part of the reason I
[15:30] Speaker 1: joined the company because, like you, I see where this
[15:33] Speaker 1: is all going. But I'm going to quote my dear
[15:35] Speaker 1: friend Greg Glenday, who was the CEO of ACAST, one
[15:38] Speaker 1: of the best independent podcast production, hosting monetization companies out there.
[15:43] Speaker 1: Publicly treated but they're a podcasting peer play, and I'm
[15:46] Speaker 1: going to I'm going to paraphrase him. I always believe
[15:49] Speaker 1: that the voices right need to be human, The creators
[15:52] Speaker 1: need to be human, and likewise the audiences need to
[15:56] Speaker 1: be human. But everything in between and before and after
[16:02] Speaker 1: there's an opportunity to profoundly enhance everything that we do
[16:07] Speaker 1: through the power of these tools. And I think AI
[16:09] Speaker 1: is going to be transformative in helping people create better content,
[16:14] Speaker 1: more quickly, more efficiently, and so on. But I'm not
[16:17] Speaker 1: a fan. I'll go on the record of replacing human
[16:21] Speaker 1: voices with AI. So if it can take what you do, Lin,
[16:25] Speaker 1: and it can, it can force multiply you, and it
[16:29] Speaker 1: it is helping you achieve your goals as a creator,
[16:33] Speaker 1: I am all for it. If it's AI, Lin and
[16:36] Speaker 1: you don't have any control over that or some variation
[16:40] Speaker 1: of that. No, No, I don't think that these tools
[16:44] Speaker 1: ought to be used in lieu of human creativity and storytelling.
[16:49] Speaker 2: Now I agree one hundred percent. I think it's it's phenomenal.
[16:53] Speaker 2: And by the way, can we back up? What's their
[16:54] Speaker 2: stock symbol? They're pure.
[17:00] Speaker 1: A cast? Yeah, there, they are publicly treated.
[17:02] Speaker 2: That's that's cool. What is a casts? Uh?
[17:05] Speaker 1: Stock stock? A ticker symbol?
[17:06] Speaker 3: I don't know.
[17:06] Speaker 1: I can't look at it. We can look at up anyway.
[17:08] Speaker 1: I only say that because I'm a big admirer of
[17:12] Speaker 1: Greg and I think he puts it right. So I
[17:14] Speaker 1: just sold his framing, but I believe it. I believe
[17:16] Speaker 1: it just as strongly as he does.
[17:19] Speaker 2: I think it's amazing. I mean in terms of radio
[17:22] Speaker 2: and television and movies and things of that nature. I mean,
[17:25] Speaker 2: there's it's basically putting the power and the control into
[17:29] Speaker 2: the creator's hands. And and Withnmono even better because especially
[17:35] Speaker 2: if it's like a one button that's exactly what it is,
[17:37] Speaker 2: it just takes it all out. It's just, you know,
[17:39] Speaker 2: we have to simplify things for those of us who
[17:41] Speaker 2: are talent who didn't really learn how to work the equipment.
[17:44] Speaker 1: Yea is I was just having this conversation for folks
[17:47] Speaker 1: who either don't have experience doing their own creative, don't
[17:51] Speaker 1: have their own experience creating their own their own audio music,
[17:54] Speaker 1: what have you. It's an incredible time saver, just in
[17:57] Speaker 1: the sense that you can just lift the lid and
[17:59] Speaker 1: hit a button and go. But even for really sophisticated people,
[18:02] Speaker 1: because I've spent most of my time working for the
[18:04] Speaker 1: company in the last call it last month or two
[18:06] Speaker 1: talking to sophisticated but talking to the audibles, talking to
[18:09] Speaker 1: the ihearts, talking to the Odisseyes of the world, and
[18:11] Speaker 1: so on, those folks are all blown away by because
[18:13] Speaker 1: they know just enough to know how much technology is
[18:16] Speaker 1: built in they can accomplish all of these, all of
[18:19] Speaker 1: these and really really important workflows. So for me, it
[18:24] Speaker 1: is the power and the simplicity together that make it
[18:28] Speaker 1: so special and why I'm excited to be a part
[18:29] Speaker 1: of it.
[18:30] Speaker 2: Yeah, you are a visionary in all of the sense
[18:33] Speaker 2: of the word.
[18:34] Speaker 3: We'll be right back with more of the Music Saved
[18:37] Speaker 3: Me podcast. Welcome back to the Music Saved Me Podcast.
[18:46] Speaker 2: Now you serve on the board of Sounds of Saving,
[18:50] Speaker 2: which uses music specifically as a mental health tool for
[18:53] Speaker 2: young people, which I think is amazing. What drew you
[18:56] Speaker 2: to that work and what have you learned from it,
[18:59] Speaker 2: especially about music and the power to.
[19:01] Speaker 1: Heal well, It's just that, right, music is an incredible
[19:05] Speaker 1: source of strength and healing, and it's also really often
[19:10] Speaker 1: quite relevant in the lives of young people. Sounds of
[19:12] Speaker 1: Savings specifically aims its programs and curriculum at young people
[19:19] Speaker 1: ages fourteen to twenty four, and it really is on
[19:23] Speaker 1: the forefront of understanding how to utilize music to support
[19:28] Speaker 1: mental health and wellness. I have known the founders since
[19:32] Speaker 1: they started one of the founders is a dear college
[19:35] Speaker 1: friend of mine. So he came to me rather early
[19:38] Speaker 1: in the process of forming the organization, and his partner
[19:42] Speaker 1: lost the beloved uncle to suicide, and that was sort
[19:45] Speaker 1: of the genesis of the organization, the origin story, if
[19:49] Speaker 1: you will. But I was so moved by the mission
[19:53] Speaker 1: that I asked to play a role as an advisor
[19:55] Speaker 1: early on, and then joined the board about a year
[19:58] Speaker 1: and a half ago. I'm going on too year years ago,
[20:00] Speaker 1: and then just recently became board chair. And I see
[20:03] Speaker 1: my role here is helping them develop. You know, the
[20:07] Speaker 1: three pillars of the organization. One of them is content creation,
[20:10] Speaker 1: where they work with incredible artists and you know, they
[20:13] Speaker 1: capture both performance, but they also captured those artists talking
[20:19] Speaker 1: about the resources that they've leading on their experiences that
[20:22] Speaker 1: they've had with mental health and regulation and emotional regulation.
[20:26] Speaker 1: The second piece of this is finding young people where
[20:30] Speaker 1: they are, so being on site at music festivals and
[20:33] Speaker 1: concerts and so on, delivering the resources that young people
[20:36] Speaker 1: need so they can get access to life saving mental
[20:40] Speaker 1: health resourcing. So that looks like tabling at an outdoor festival, right,
[20:44] Speaker 1: a table that's set up instead you know, connecting people
[20:47] Speaker 1: with therapeutic resources, connecting them with therapists and so on.
[20:51] Speaker 1: That's a big part of it, right because you can't
[20:53] Speaker 1: ask young people to find you. You need to be
[20:56] Speaker 1: where they are. And then the third piece is the
[20:58] Speaker 1: development of curriculum in schools. And I'm really proud that
[21:01] Speaker 1: in just a few days we're going to be at
[21:02] Speaker 1: my alma water doing an assembly with the tenth graders
[21:07] Speaker 1: to talk about how this program is going to be
[21:09] Speaker 1: integrated to help serve them. So those three pillars are
[21:14] Speaker 1: core to what the organization does, and I'm just thrilled
[21:18] Speaker 1: to be able to contribute my time and energy because
[21:21] Speaker 1: it's such a worthy worthy pause.
[21:22] Speaker 2: It certainly is, and congratulations on that milestone coming up.
[21:27] Speaker 2: I would love to be a fly on the wall
[21:28] Speaker 2: to see the students faces because ever since I've been
[21:32] Speaker 2: in school, I've had an instrument in my hand, but
[21:36] Speaker 2: I never put the two and two together of why
[21:38] Speaker 2: it made me so happy.
[21:39] Speaker 1: I do think that in some ways, this is not
[21:42] Speaker 1: just about music curriculum. There are a lot of great
[21:44] Speaker 1: organizations that do that. I think this is really about
[21:48] Speaker 1: giving students tools to bring in the music that they
[21:51] Speaker 1: love and that they resonate with and you know, whether
[21:53] Speaker 1: it's playlisting, you know, we bring artists into schools, you know,
[21:58] Speaker 1: leaning on music at frameworks around like you know, how
[22:02] Speaker 1: do lyrics evoke emotional responses and all of the issues
[22:05] Speaker 1: relating to relating to you know, emotion, vulnerability and regulation.
[22:09] Speaker 1: This stuff is just not taught right. Even health courses
[22:12] Speaker 1: and health classes don't talk about this stuff. And a
[22:14] Speaker 1: lot of the students, particularly marginalized communities, don't have access
[22:18] Speaker 1: to any real resourcing.
[22:20] Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what I was going to say, they're getting
[22:22] Speaker 2: Those are the first things they cut which and this
[22:25] Speaker 2: should be the last thing that they pushed out of
[22:28] Speaker 2: the schools one hundred percent. By the way, clarinet not
[22:32] Speaker 2: just as hard I think as a saxophone. I tried
[22:34] Speaker 2: that the clarinet and the violin, which I loved very much,
[22:39] Speaker 2: but the guitar ended up being the winner there. I
[22:41] Speaker 2: think I dabbled in the drums too a little bit.
[22:43] Speaker 2: But anyway, who knew was what it was that we
[22:47] Speaker 2: were connecting with so long ago was just what you're
[22:50] Speaker 2: talking about now, Only we didn't have any of these
[22:53] Speaker 2: programs back then. So it's amazing that you're getting to
[22:57] Speaker 2: do that. We're really I think you would agree with me.
[23:00] Speaker 2: We're in a middle of a mental health crisis right now.
[23:04] Speaker 2: Not to talk about why and what the reasons are.
[23:06] Speaker 2: I think we all kind of have an idea, but
[23:08] Speaker 2: particularly among young people. I mean, that's where it's just
[23:11] Speaker 2: cutting right to the heart of it. Do you think that,
[23:13] Speaker 2: you know, the music industry, streaming platforms and labels and educators,
[23:18] Speaker 2: they have like a responsibility to lean into that And
[23:21] Speaker 2: do you think that they're doing enough? And if they're not,
[23:24] Speaker 2: what do you think they should be doing.
[23:27] Speaker 1: I think there's always more that can be done. I
[23:29] Speaker 1: think the music industry is a reasonably you know, vague
[23:33] Speaker 1: and amorphous collection of different folks in different industries and professions.
[23:39] Speaker 1: We feel strongly that folks who are interacting directly with
[23:44] Speaker 1: young people do have maybe more of a responsibility. Labels
[23:49] Speaker 1: our go Betweens right, No, no young person interacts directly
[23:53] Speaker 1: with the label unless they're signed to the label. And
[23:55] Speaker 1: also the importance of the major labels has somewhat leaning
[23:58] Speaker 1: over time for lots of need to get into here.
[24:01] Speaker 1: But I think if you're a concert promoter, you're you're
[24:03] Speaker 1: you're developing music festivals and so on, whether you're a
[24:06] Speaker 1: libination ag any one of the you know, the the
[24:10] Speaker 1: sub producers that are underneath those banners, and many of
[24:14] Speaker 1: them do, to be fair, many of them do have
[24:17] Speaker 1: programs work with non nonprofits. And many artists who are
[24:21] Speaker 1: are touring with these have you know, touring arrangements, touring agreements,
[24:25] Speaker 1: or a part of these festivals have their own causes
[24:28] Speaker 1: that they care deeply about. I wouldn't say that there
[24:32] Speaker 1: is as much organization around that as there could be,
[24:35] Speaker 1: and I think there are folks who are you're doing
[24:38] Speaker 1: the great job and others who could be doing more.
[24:40] Speaker 1: In general, it's sad. I think that we look to
[24:44] Speaker 1: corporations to take care of this, and at the end
[24:46] Speaker 1: of the day, age and lab nation and the labels
[24:48] Speaker 1: and the publishers and every other part of the music industry,
[24:51] Speaker 1: the DSPs, they're just big corporations, uh. And I would
[24:55] Speaker 1: rather see that we take these into our communities and
[24:58] Speaker 1: that these be adopted with greater rigor by our municipalities,
[25:03] Speaker 1: by our school boards, you know, and you know, the
[25:07] Speaker 1: Department of Education has been essentially dismantled, so there is
[25:10] Speaker 1: definitely I think a challenge here and I think there's
[25:13] Speaker 1: always Just to be really clear, I think there's always
[25:15] Speaker 1: a risk when you say, hey, these big for profit,
[25:19] Speaker 1: you know, commercial entities, asking them to replace what is
[25:25] Speaker 1: essentially a community oriented service, I think comes with a
[25:29] Speaker 1: lot of risks. Doesn't mean we're not going to lean
[25:31] Speaker 1: on them for help and support. Doesn't we're not going
[25:33] Speaker 1: to ask them for money or visibility or the opportunity
[25:36] Speaker 1: to get in front of their their sponsors. But I
[25:40] Speaker 1: do think that we should be careful, and I think
[25:42] Speaker 1: we should ask more of our elected officials. Quite frankly,
[25:45] Speaker 1: I agree.
[25:46] Speaker 2: I do agree with that. That's well, if you could
[25:49] Speaker 2: go back to your younger self, one thing about the
[25:53] Speaker 2: role of music that it would play in your life
[25:56] Speaker 2: and career, what would it be? Did that make sense?
[26:00] Speaker 1: Yes, I would tell I would tell myself to be
[26:04] Speaker 1: something that I'm not, which is patient. And I spent
[26:07] Speaker 1: a lot of time when I was a young person
[26:08] Speaker 1: worrying about how I would ever figure out a way
[26:11] Speaker 1: to take these things that animated me and make a
[26:14] Speaker 1: career out of them, And for a long time I
[26:16] Speaker 1: just assumed I wouldn't. My father, who is a very
[26:20] Speaker 1: wise man and was actually very successful in business, and
[26:24] Speaker 1: he ran a direct mailing company, so nothing that I'm
[26:27] Speaker 1: involved in directly. But he always talked about the difference
[26:30] Speaker 1: between vocation and avocation. And vocations what you do, you
[26:33] Speaker 1: know to earn a paycheck, and but your avocation is
[26:35] Speaker 1: the stuff that that really turns you on. And he
[26:37] Speaker 1: served on boards, and he was involved in history societies,
[26:42] Speaker 1: the Yiddish Cultural Institute. He was very engaged. He was
[26:45] Speaker 1: involved in UJA. These causes were very near and dear
[26:49] Speaker 1: to his heart, and in many ways they required just
[26:53] Speaker 1: as much energy and effort as his day job did,
[26:56] Speaker 1: and he worked both by both of those things very hard.
[26:58] Speaker 1: But there was a distinction, you know, direct mailing. I
[27:00] Speaker 1: had very little to do with any of those vacational pursuits.
[27:04] Speaker 1: And I just thought to myself, ma'am, I don't want
[27:06] Speaker 1: to live such a bifurcated life. I'd love to see
[27:08] Speaker 1: if I could bring it all together. And I didn't
[27:10] Speaker 1: have any idea how I was going to do that.
[27:11] Speaker 1: I didn't have an uncle in the business or a
[27:14] Speaker 1: cousin in the business. I remember I had a cousin
[27:16] Speaker 1: who had a friend in the business, and I was like,
[27:18] Speaker 1: can I meet your friend? I was in my early twenties,
[27:21] Speaker 1: and the guy, who is a well known guy, I'm
[27:23] Speaker 1: not going to blow up the spot, could have been
[27:25] Speaker 1: less helpful or friendly. He took the meeting because his
[27:29] Speaker 1: friend asked him to take the meeting, but there was
[27:31] Speaker 1: no follow up, And so I just understood at that
[27:33] Speaker 1: moment very clearly it was up to me to try
[27:35] Speaker 1: to figure it out. But I worried about it a lot,
[27:38] Speaker 1: And so I would tell my younger self, don't worry
[27:40] Speaker 1: right when you were when you're in the flow, when
[27:43] Speaker 1: you're working towards your soul's purpose. It's when you fight
[27:47] Speaker 1: against it is when it feels hard. When you're moving
[27:50] Speaker 1: towards it and moving with that stream, actually everything feels
[27:53] Speaker 1: pretty easy. And that's how I feel now. But of
[27:55] Speaker 1: course I'm a lot greyer and older, and I've enjoyed
[27:59] Speaker 1: some some success, and I've had a lot of like
[28:02] Speaker 1: really wonderful working experiences. So I would say that to
[28:06] Speaker 1: the nineteen year old mey or the twenty two year
[28:07] Speaker 1: old me or the twenty three year old me, and
[28:09] Speaker 1: and I don't know, you know, he would probably turn
[28:12] Speaker 1: to me and go easy for you to save pops, did.
[28:16] Speaker 2: You owen did you ask a lot of questions when
[28:19] Speaker 2: you were growing up as a kid? Did you want
[28:21] Speaker 2: to know, you know, why this person had the store?
[28:24] Speaker 2: Or why how do you work for yourself? Those kinds
[28:26] Speaker 2: of were you curious?
[28:29] Speaker 1: I think of myself as a generally curious person. I
[28:32] Speaker 1: always think I could be more curious. You know, we
[28:35] Speaker 1: don't have to get too personal. But I do think
[28:36] Speaker 1: that there was a big part of my personality where
[28:38] Speaker 1: I felt like I had to show that, you know,
[28:40] Speaker 1: I kind of had under control that everything was copasetic,
[28:44] Speaker 1: you know that I had a kind of young wisdom.
[28:48] Speaker 1: I remember once in the second or third grade, we
[28:51] Speaker 1: were asked, you know, what do we want to do
[28:52] Speaker 1: when we grow up? And I remember saying this, but
[28:55] Speaker 1: I didn't think it would make such a story. I'm like,
[28:57] Speaker 1: why I don't want to win the Noville Peace Prize.
[28:58] Speaker 1: The teacher was like, oh, wow, that's amazing. But I
[29:01] Speaker 1: think a lot of what yeah, I mean, I actually
[29:03] Speaker 1: don't want to take credit for that. I think there
[29:05] Speaker 1: was a lot of me trying to do what I
[29:08] Speaker 1: thought would reflect well in the eyes of the grown
[29:11] Speaker 1: ups around me. Got it a desire to perform, a
[29:15] Speaker 1: desire to be pleasing achieve, yes to achieve, and that
[29:22] Speaker 1: other directed desire for achievement doesn't get you through the
[29:26] Speaker 1: hard times because it doesn't come from inside to me.
[29:30] Speaker 1: What comes from inside to is your passion, you know,
[29:33] Speaker 1: the love of the game, what you would do even
[29:34] Speaker 1: if nobody was looking, even if you weren't getting necessarily
[29:37] Speaker 1: paid or paid well. And it took me a long
[29:40] Speaker 1: time to figure that out. And I'm not to say
[29:43] Speaker 1: I wasn't curious. I was very curious about certain things,
[29:46] Speaker 1: and I had like an endless, endless appetite to learn
[29:48] Speaker 1: more about music and bands and scenes that I cared
[29:51] Speaker 1: about and wanted always to meet new people. But it
[29:54] Speaker 1: took me a while to focus on the me part
[29:57] Speaker 1: of the equation and not what I thought the world
[30:00] Speaker 1: or my parents expected of me.
[30:02] Speaker 2: Yeah, gosh, that resonates with me so much, and I
[30:05] Speaker 2: hope it does our listeners as well. I have so
[30:09] Speaker 2: much in common with you. I could probably talk to
[30:11] Speaker 2: you for another three hours about this stuff, because you.
[30:14] Speaker 1: Know EPISO two, Episode three, Episode four, I'm.
[30:16] Speaker 2: Telling you, but you know it's funny because it's it's
[30:18] Speaker 2: cathartic for me as well. You know, I feel like
[30:21] Speaker 2: we're here to help others in our discussion, but it
[30:25] Speaker 2: always ends up making me feel better after the discussion
[30:28] Speaker 2: as well. I hope my guests yourself feel the same
[30:32] Speaker 2: way too, because it helps everyone. I feel like if
[30:35] Speaker 2: we all lift each other up, then we all win.
[30:38] Speaker 2: That's right, So why don't we just continue doing that?
[30:41] Speaker 3: You know?
[30:41] Speaker 1: And I always feel like you can do that better.
[30:44] Speaker 1: It's not a requirement, but you can always, in my opinion,
[30:46] Speaker 1: you can do that better when you start with how
[30:48] Speaker 1: do I take care of myself? How do I make
[30:51] Speaker 1: myself feel grounded and connected to what I'm doing and
[30:53] Speaker 1: what I care about? How do I demonstrate compassion for
[30:57] Speaker 1: myself in a world where compassion is hard to come by.
[31:00] Speaker 1: It is not a requirement that you be healed to
[31:03] Speaker 1: go out and do great things for other people. In fact,
[31:05] Speaker 1: sometimes you heal yourself by being of service to others
[31:08] Speaker 1: by doing it. Yeah, exactly, just by doing it. But
[31:12] Speaker 1: hopefully it's an engine, like you say, that feeds the
[31:15] Speaker 1: people you care about, the communities you want to impact,
[31:18] Speaker 1: and then it circles back to feed your soul and
[31:21] Speaker 1: your heart. And I just find that, you know, particularly
[31:25] Speaker 1: for guys, a lot of us are pretty broken. We're
[31:29] Speaker 1: not we're not taught how to think about those little
[31:33] Speaker 1: versions that live inside of us. We're scared and unsure
[31:38] Speaker 1: and just wanted to be loved and feel connection, and
[31:40] Speaker 1: we're told not to cry, and we're told be tough
[31:44] Speaker 1: and don't be so sensitive, and we're just told that
[31:47] Speaker 1: our feelings were wrong. And then you see a lot
[31:50] Speaker 1: of this, like really like inappropriate bad behavior that comes
[31:54] Speaker 1: out of the shadow of all of that. And as
[31:58] Speaker 1: I get older and older, it's more important for me
[31:59] Speaker 1: as all. It's what I think about it in my
[32:01] Speaker 1: own life is you know, how do I make peace
[32:03] Speaker 1: with my shadows?
[32:05] Speaker 3: Wow?
[32:07] Speaker 2: Make peace with my shadows? That is? Did you just
[32:10] Speaker 2: come up with that off the top of your head?
[32:13] Speaker 1: I wish you could see right now.
[32:14] Speaker 2: I was like, I don't know. Well, I'll add to
[32:17] Speaker 2: that oxygen mask on you first, and then you can
[32:20] Speaker 2: do it for others. So while you're learning your way. Yeah,
[32:24] Speaker 2: it's hard though, because when you want to help others,
[32:26] Speaker 2: you want to you put yourself aside, and that's what
[32:29] Speaker 2: takes you so long to figure out who you are,
[32:30] Speaker 2: because you're too busy helping everyone else.
[32:33] Speaker 1: Amen.
[32:34] Speaker 2: Oh, and it was so great to meet you. Is
[32:36] Speaker 2: there anything we missed or anything or a message that
[32:39] Speaker 2: you want to get out there right now to young people.
[32:42] Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I actually really want to encourage people
[32:45] Speaker 1: who are listening to visit Sounds of Saving dot Org.
[32:48] Speaker 1: Sounds of Saving so sounds with an S at the end,
[32:52] Speaker 1: saving no no s dot org because there's a lot
[32:55] Speaker 1: about the organization that I want to share. I believe
[32:59] Speaker 1: very very strongly that music can save lives and improve
[33:04] Speaker 1: the quality of the lives of young people, and that
[33:08] Speaker 1: is my desire and paying it forward. The rest of
[33:11] Speaker 1: the stuff about me is on LinkedIn. You can just
[33:13] Speaker 1: look it up, all right. But if anyone's interested in
[33:16] Speaker 1: learning more Sounds of Saving dot org and you know,
[33:18] Speaker 1: find me. I'm easy to find and I'd love to
[33:21] Speaker 1: hear from anyone who wants to learn about that or
[33:23] Speaker 1: any of the adventures I've had in music.
[33:26] Speaker 2: Owen Grover, thank you for coming on Music Save Me.
[33:29] Speaker 2: Thank you for all the work that you're doing and
[33:31] Speaker 2: continue to do. And I can't wait for part do.
[33:34] Speaker 1: Let's do it.
[33:35] Speaker 2: Let's do it. Thank you. I'm buzz night, and thanks
[33:39] Speaker 2: for listening to Lynn Hoffman and the Music Save.
[33:43] Speaker 3: Me podcast produced by Buzznight Media Productions.
[33:47] Speaker 1: Please check out our other shows, Taken a Walk Nashville
[33:50] Speaker 1: hosted by Sarah Harrelson, Comedy Save Me hosted by Lynn Hoffman,
[33:55] Speaker 1: and Taken a Walk hosted by Yours Truly.
[33:58] Speaker 3: All shows are available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and are
[34:03] Speaker 3: part of the iHeart podcast network

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