# The Finale: One Korean. One American. One Last Conversation.

An episode of [Korean. American. Podcast](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1700367421), 20 Aug 2026, 1 h 42 min.

Audio: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2224965/episodes/19674966-the-finale-one-korean-one-american-one-last-conversation.mp3

After nearly 130 episodes and three years of conversations, Korean. American. Podcast. is coming to a close. What began as a naive and unassuming attempt to deepen our understanding of each other's cultures grew into something neither of us could have ever expected: an English-language learning podcast. Jokes aside, as the episodes got longer and the topics became more complicated, we discovered that when it comes to cultural differences, there rarely is a right and wrong. There is simply different. And if you approach those differences with an open mind and try to understand where they come from, you won't just learn more about others—you'll learn more about yourself. In preparing for our final episodes, we've had a chance to look back and reflect on the journey: the late nights and early mornings; the laughter and tears; the fears, frustrations, doubts, and insecurities; but also the excitement, joy, and yes, jeong, that we've experienced along the way. We're continually amazed by how much our perspectives have changed, and by the conversations and connections this podcast has created. From the beginning, our mission was to spark self-reflection and conversation about the intersections of Korean and American culture—to challenge assumptions, deepen understanding, and explore the ways culture shapes our identity, heritage, and worldview. To that, we can both proudly say: mission accomplished. And what we've come to understand through all of those conversations is that, yes, our cultures are very different, and yes, we are deeply shaped by the cultures we grow up in. Yet, in the end, we are all similar in that each of us is simply trying to do our best with the circumstances we've been given. As much as this is a goodbye to our podcast, it is mostly a thank you. To our friends and families, thank you for supporting and believing in us. To our listeners, thank you for laughing with us, listening to us, challenging us, and encouraging us. Your emails, comments, messages, and in-person conversations have not just been heartfelt, encouraging, and thought-provoking, but reading them has truly brought us so much happiness. Thank you. But while this podcast is ending, we hope the conversation doesn't. Continue to observe, introspect, learn, grow, share. If this podcast has taught us anything, it's that thoughtful conversation can broaden our perspectives, challenge what we think we know, and ultimately create greater empathy and connection. The world needs as much of that as we can provide. We know our own journeys of trying to better understand ourselves and one another will never end, and we hope yours won't either. Thank you for being a part of ours, as much as we were a part of yours. Support the show We hope you enjoy listening to our conversation, and we're so excited to have you following us on this journey! Support us on Patreon: https://patreon.com/user?u=99211862 Follow us on socials: https://www.instagram.com/koreanamericanpodcast/ https://twitter.com/korampodcast https://www.tiktok.com/@koreanamericanpodcast Questions/Comments/Feedback? Email us at: koreanamericanpodcast@gmail.com Member of the iyagi media network (www.iyagimedia.com)

## Transcript

[0:00] 128_Finale_pt1: Hey,
[0:00] Daniel: Hey, everyone.
[0:01] Daniel: This is Daniel.
[0:02] Jun: And I'm Jun.
[0:03] Daniel: And we are Korean-
[0:06] Jun: American
[0:12] 128_Finale_pt1: What
[0:12] Jun: that?
[0:15] Daniel: I didn't plan to do it, but I was just in the moment.
[0:19] Jun: Oh, really?
[0:19] Jun: I was like,
[0:20] Daniel: I was like, oh, I, I, wanna say Korean too because, you know, I, I think after this podcast, Jun, and three years of dissecting Korean American culture and five years of living here-...I feel a little bit more Korean-
[0:34] Jun: bit?
[0:34] Jun: than than
[0:35] Daniel: did before.
[0:36] Jun: A little bit more?
[0:38] Jun: a little bit.
[0:38] Jun: Mm.
[0:39] Jun: Yeah.
[0:40] Daniel: don't know.
[0:40] Daniel: What do you think?
[0:41] Jun: I'm always curious, like, how Korean have you become?
[0:44] 128_Finale_pt1: Oh, it's,
[0:45] Daniel: it's a hard question.
[0:47] Daniel: But, you know, if I was a 7.5 on the Korean American scale before again, one being Korean-Korean and then 10 being American-American, You know, I had rated myself as a 7.5 before.
[0:59] Daniel: Mm.
[1:00] Daniel: Maybe I'm like a seven,
[1:03] 128_Finale_pt1: Oh.
[1:03] 128_Finale_pt1: Maybe.
[1:04] 128_Finale_pt1: I don't know.
[1:04] Jun: One to 0.5.
[1:05] Jun: Yeah.
[1:05] Jun: That's a big shift.
[1:08] Daniel: That's a big shift.
[1:08] Daniel: You know, I don't think I've ever...
[1:09] Daniel: You know, we had a previous guest who described themselves as a five.
[1:12] Daniel: I'm never gonna get there.
[1:13] Daniel: Mm.
[1:14] Jun: Or,
[1:15] Daniel: would, I think I would have to live a lot longer in Korea- Mm
[1:18] Jun: Mm
[1:18] Daniel: and, maybe learn the language much much better.
[1:22] Daniel: But I don't, I don't think I'll ever get there.
[1:24] Daniel: yeah, I think I've maybe gone down a half point or one point.
[1:28] Jun: Mm.
[1:29] Jun: In a weird way, do you know, like, there are, like, these very small moments where I feel like you're very Korean.
[1:33] Jun: Yeah.
[1:34] Jun: Are these moments like, for instance, when we're at a cafe, right?
[1:38] Jun: you,"English menu?" Yeah.
[1:40] Jun: And you're like very in a
[1:41] 128_Finale_pt1: dismissive way,
[1:42] Jun: dismissive way,"No." That is very Korean to me.
[1:46] Jun: Yeah.
[1:47] Jun: I do
[1:47] Daniel: think I can trick people at restaurants now- when I order
[1:50] Jun: maybe.
[1:50] Jun: Mm.
[1:51] Daniel: I don't know.
[1:51] Jun: Yeah.
[1:52] Daniel: But yes, Jun, the time has
[1:54] Jun: has come.
[1:54] Jun: Mm.
[1:56] Daniel: This will be our final planned
[1:58] 128_Finale_pt1: episode.
[1:58] 128_Finale_pt1: Yeah.
[1:59] 128_Finale_pt1: And
[2:00] Daniel: Jun, I, I, thought I would use this episode as a chance to just brain dump everything in my mind that I've been processing and thinking about as we're preparing to leave.
[2:10] Daniel: Mm.
[2:10] Jun: Mm-hmm.
[2:11] Jun: yeah,
[2:11] Daniel: I, I, you know, took some notes and wrote some things down.
[2:15] Daniel: Basically, you know, things I'll miss about Korea, things I won't miss- things I have mixed feelings about Of course, a lot of emotions and reflections on my time here.
[2:26] Daniel: but yeah, that's what I was hoping to do,
[2:28] 128_Finale_pt1: so- Mm...uh,
[2:29] Daniel: how does that sound?
[2:30] Jun: Yeah.
[2:31] Jun: I think at one point you had an idea of having the previous episode as the final episode.
[2:39] Jun: But I thought that this fit in better-
[2:42] Daniel: Mm-hmm.
[2:42] Jun: considering the overall theme of the podcast.
[2:45] Jun: Yeah Because the theme of the podcast is to bridge between different cultures- Mm-hmm...And build more empathy.
[2:53] Jun: Yeah Right?
[2:54] Jun: And I think your transition and the learnings that you learned throughout the past years- Mm-hmm is a grander theme than the podcast.
[3:04] Jun: So I think
[3:05] Daniel: I like that
[3:06] Jun: in very well.
[3:07] Jun: Yeah.
[3:07] Jun: I mean, let's see
[3:08] Daniel: see how it goes.
[3:09] Daniel: A lot of my reflections are not gonna be super deep.
[3:12] Daniel: I don't know why.
[3:12] Daniel: I think...
[3:14] Jun: They'll be deep.........I had this,
[3:15] Daniel: I had this, this vision of, like, 101 things I'll miss about Korea stack ranked, right?
[3:20] Daniel: And it would start very
[3:22] Jun: That is very shallow.
[3:25] Daniel: Well, it'll start very shallow, but it'll get super deep at the end.
[3:28] Daniel: And the number one thing I'll miss, Jun, is this podcast and you, and then I cry.
[3:34] Daniel: But no, I think let, let's just see how it goes.
[3:36] Jun: Okay.
[3:37] Daniel: So the first section I have, Jun things I'll miss about Korea, everyday infrastructure and kinda systems, how things work.
[3:45] Daniel: know, top of the list is gonna be the public Yeah.
[3:48] Daniel: I think the subways and buses are clean and reliable and affordable.
[3:54] Daniel: and even, even taxis, I don't know how you feel as a Korean-Korean living here-
[3:59] Jun: Mm
[4:00] Daniel: But I,
[4:01] Jun: I
[4:01] Daniel: don't feel guilty or bad taking taxis in Korea.
[4:03] Daniel: It's quite affordable
[4:05] Jun: It is.
[4:06] Jun: Especially compared
[4:06] Daniel: to the US, compared to Japan, and like, you know, I was in Sweden recently.
[4:11] Daniel: Man, Korean taxis are really a good deal.
[4:13] Jun: Yeah.
[4:15] Jun: feel bad
[4:15] Daniel: about taking taxis.
[4:16] Daniel: And so uh, a kind of add-on to this is because the public transportation is so good, I just walk everywhere.
[4:24] Daniel: I'm walking all the time.
[4:26] Daniel: And because there's so many things to do in my neighborhood, I can just walk to restaurants, walk...
[4:30] Daniel: Yeah, just walk...
[4:31] Daniel: And I really, really like that.
[4:32] Daniel: Yeah, I've always appreciated that even before living here, but here it's just so...
[4:38] Daniel: s- Everything's so accessible walking and public so yeah, I will miss that
[4:43] 128_Finale_pt1: desperately.
[4:44] Jun: Is there also a- part of you that is excited to drive in the US?
[4:49] Jun: 'Cause driving is easier- right?
[4:52] Jun: Definitely.
[4:53] Daniel: Definitely it is easier- in the US than Korea, right?
[4:56] Daniel: You drive for longer distances faster.
[4:59] Daniel: it doesn't seem so congested all the time.
[5:01] Daniel: But no, I'm not looking forward to that.
[5:04] Daniel: I prefer driving in the US compared to Korea, But I'm not looking forward to it.
[5:08] Daniel: I prefer walking in Korea, for
[5:09] Jun: sure.
[5:09] Jun: Mm-hmm.
[5:11] Daniel: Next thing, Jun, food delivery, just the prices and options.
[5:15] Daniel: It's just such a game changer, especially when you have kids.
[5:18] Daniel: It's like,"Ugh, I don't wanna cook anything today." In the US it'd be like,"Oh,"Am I gonna really pay that exorbitant fee and tip on top to, like, order food?
[5:26] Daniel: Or am I gonna really drive somewhere, wait, pick it up, bring it
[5:29] Jun: back?" Mm-hmm.
[5:30] Jun: Korea's
[5:30] Daniel: the best of both worlds.
[5:31] Daniel: Like
[5:32] Jun: Like it's cheap, it's fast,
[5:33] Daniel: you have so many options available to you.
[5:35] Jun: Mm-hmm.
[5:36] Daniel: And so, yeah, it's really, really a game changer.
[5:38] 128_Finale_pt1: Mm-hmm.
[5:40] Daniel: The next one I've mentioned before, it's coupon d- dawn delivery.
[5:45] Daniel: So I have heard that the US has caught up here.
[5:47] Jun: Really?
[5:48] Daniel: Yeah, I, I've heard it's, you know, a lot of things are next day, but I don't think it's next morning by 7:00 AM.
[5:54] Daniel: So, you know, it's just, it's just one of those things where, of course, like immediate gratification when you order something.
[6:01] Daniel: It's like within 12 hours it's there.
[6:03] Daniel: But also with the kids' school stuff, sometimes It's like, Oh, shoot, we forgot we needed that." Oh, is it.
[6:08] Daniel: still is it still before 11?
[6:09] Daniel: Oh, great.
[6:10] Daniel: It's only, like, 9:00 PM." Order it, it's there before the kids go to school the next morning.
[6:14] Jun: yeah, the reliability,
[6:17] Daniel: it's just so, So convenient and comfortable.
[6:19] Daniel: Mm.
[6:19] Jun: Mm-hmm.
[6:21] 128_Finale_pt1: yeah.
[6:22] Daniel: Do you use dawn delivery a lot?
[6:23] Daniel: Mm.
[6:24] Jun: Mm-hmm.
[6:25] Daniel: Or do you, do you still appreciate when it comes the next
[6:28] Jun: morning?
[6:30] Jun: to be honest with you, there aren't a lot of situations where I really had to have it- Uh-huh before 7:00.
[6:36] Jun: yeah, But it is very satisfying.
[6:39] Jun: Mm-hmm.
[6:39] Jun: That, yeah, that, that immediate feedback almost.
[6:42] Jun: Yeah.
[6:42] Jun: Mm-hmm.
[6:43] Jun: That you can get something in such a short period of time.
[6:46] Jun: Totally.
[6:46] Jun: Yeah.
[6:48] Daniel: Next one I'm gonna go with...
[6:49] Daniel: And again, these are not stack ranked in or in any particular order.
[6:54] Daniel: brain dump.
[6:55] Daniel: Rest areas.
[6:56] Daniel: Hygesos.
[6:56] Daniel: Oh, Hygeso?
[6:57] Jun: Oh, Hyundai?
[7:00] Daniel: I don't know.
[7:01] Daniel: It's just, like the cleanliness of the bathrooms, The food options, there's so many.
[7:06] Daniel: All the snacks that you can get.
[7:08] Daniel: Yeah.
[7:08] Daniel: they're just...
[7:09] Daniel: it makes traveling across Korea kind of a joy.
[7:12] Daniel: Mm-hmm.
[7:12] 128_Finale_pt1: Mm.
[7:13] 128_Finale_pt1: compared to,
[7:13] Jun: again,
[7:13] Daniel: what I'm used to in the US, which is like,"Let's just make this stop as fast as possible and get on the road again." So yeah, I really appreciate the Hygesos.
[7:20] 128_Finale_pt1: Sos.
[7:22] Daniel: The OCR, so the optical character recognition license plate machines- So every parking garage here, you just...
[7:28] Daniel: You don't have to deal with, like, pulling a ticket, saving that ticket-
[7:31] Jun: Mm-hmm
[7:32] Daniel: that ticket on your windshield, like, inserting that ticket when you leave, or you're afraid of losing it, so then you get charged the maximum
[7:39] Jun: amount.
[7:40] Jun: you
[7:40] Daniel: they just scan your license plate on the way in.
[7:42] Daniel: They scan it when you're gonna leave, or you enter it in, and then you pay what you, what you need before you go.
[7:48] Daniel: Yeah, it just makes it a little bit more convenient.
[7:50] 128_Finale_pt1: Mm.
[7:50] Daniel: Mm-hmm.
[7:52] Daniel: one, Jun, bus lane privilege.
[7:54] Daniel: So, Of course there are HOV or high-occupancy vehicle lanes in the US.
[8:00] Daniel: You know, two people or more, you can If you have an electric car, you can use the HOV lane.
[8:05] Daniel: But because the bar is not that high, like people are in this lane all the time.
[8:10] Daniel: And so sometimes it feels like you're not going any faster than the non-HOV lanes.
[8:15] Daniel: But in Korea, at least on the main freeway, the main highway that goes from Pangyo to Seoul, yeah, we have six people in our car- and so we can use the bus lane.
[8:24] Daniel: Mm-hmm.
[8:24] Daniel: So it, it,
[8:25] Jun: So it, it,
[8:25] Daniel: just a cheat code.
[8:26] Daniel: It makes it...
[8:27] Daniel: It's so satisfying every time we, like, pass all these cars, you know, save 30 minutes plus going one way into Seoul and about that same amount coming out as
[8:36] Jun: well.
[8:36] Jun: Mm-hmm.
[8:37] Daniel: So yeah, we'll definitely, we will definitely miss that.
[8:39] 128_Finale_pt1: Mm-hmm.
[8:41] Daniel: This one's a little bit more meta.
[8:43] Daniel: I'm gonna miss the feeling that things are constantly improving and being maintained.
[8:48] Jun: Mm-hmm.
[8:50] Daniel: So, you know, just some things where it's like all the intersections near me have turned into four-way crossings, you know, Shibuya crossing style.
[8:58] Daniel: I think it's safer, and it feels at least more predictable.
[9:02] Daniel: And yeah, it's just like one, you know, one by one these things change over and it's, It's definitely an improvement.
[9:09] Daniel: The light indicators on the ground so that if you're looking down on your phone, you can like be alerted that you're about to, to go.
[9:15] 128_Finale_pt1: Yeah.
[9:16] Daniel: The red-green countdowns and navigation apps telling you how long the green light's gonna last or how long the red light's gonna last, right?
[9:22] Daniel: It's just like, it's just this feeling I have that things are constantly improving.
[9:27] Daniel: It's not something that I remember feeling in the US.
[9:29] Daniel: If anything, it was like the infrastructure is always degrading-
[9:33] Jun: Mm-hmm...it felt
[9:34] Daniel: like in a sense.
[9:34] Daniel: So, Yeah, that's something I'll miss.
[9:38] Daniel: I think convenience stores, to be honest, they've lost their novelty for me a bit.
[9:43] 128_Finale_pt1: Mm-hmm.
[9:44] Daniel: just the accessibility and uniformity and consistency of them, it's like, oh, if I need anything, I know last minute I can get it from there.
[9:53] Daniel: Of course, there are still a lot of things I wish they did carry.
[9:56] Daniel: And sometimes like, oh, like I have to go to a big market for that.
[10:00] Daniel: but yeah, overall they're still, they're still an at-- They're still nice to have.
[10:04] Jun: Mm.
[10:05] Jun: This
[10:06] Daniel: I don't know if I ever, ever mentioned it.
[10:08] Daniel: We don't get physical spam mail in Korea.
[10:12] Daniel: Have I mentioned that on the pod?
[10:13] Jun: Do you get physical spam mail in the US?
[10:15] Daniel: my God.
[10:16] Daniel: It is so much.
[10:18] Daniel: every day we get Like, a thick thing of physical mail-
[10:22] Jun: Oh, wow and it's
[10:23] 128_Finale_pt1: it's
[10:24] Daniel: just junk mail.
[10:26] Daniel: But then it's frustrating'cause you can't just, wholesale throw it out.
[10:29] Daniel: You have to, like, try to find the one or two important things you might be receiving that day.
[10:34] Jun: Know that was a thing
[10:35] Daniel: was a thing.
[10:35] Daniel: Oh, it's so ridiculous.
[10:36] Daniel: And so it's so nice here not having to think or worry about that.
[10:40] Daniel: Every piece of mail we get is very high signal.
[10:43] Daniel: I would say, you know, maybe 20% of it is spam.
[10:46] Daniel: But most of it's something valuable.
[10:48] Daniel: And we only get one or two things a week re- really, right?
[10:51] Daniel: So, Yeah, that's, that's really nice.
[10:53] 128_Finale_pt1: Mm.
[10:54] Daniel: Yeah, this is obviously not stack ranking, Jun,'cause this next one for me is huge.
[10:58] Daniel: The safety, the feeling that you can take late night walks, you aren't worried about your packages or your bikes getting stolen.
[11:07] Daniel: You know, you can leave the bike unlocked.
[11:09] Daniel: I know there's a, a meme amongst foreigners, which is like the only thing that does get stolen in Korea are bikes But at least in our experience, like, our kids have parked their bikes without a lock all over Pangil.
[11:20] Daniel: Not once has it gotten taken away or anything.
[11:23] Daniel: So it's always right where we left it, even overnight sometimes.
[11:27] Daniel: And so yeah, just being able to leave things unattended, whether it's a laptop or a bag at a cafe, at a playground at a restaurant.
[11:34] Daniel: Or like, this doesn't come up that often, but when it does come up, it's so nice, at the
[11:38] Jun: beach.
[11:40] Jun: like, in the US,
[11:41] Daniel: When I leave my stuff on a towel at the beach, I'm like always paranoid.
[11:45] Daniel: like is someone gonna take Can...
[11:47] Daniel: You know?
[11:47] Daniel: So in a sense, like, we can't all as a family go into the water, or if we do, we're always like...
[11:52] Daniel: I'm always, like keeping one eye looking back making sure my beach towel and the stuff we put on
[11:57] Jun: top- Mm
[11:57] Daniel: is in line of sight for me just to kind of deter someone from taking it.
[12:01] Daniel: Again, it's just so nice to just leave it there and feel very free in that.
[12:05] 128_Finale_pt1: Mm-hmm.
[12:06] Daniel: so, Yeah, next one is...
[12:09] Daniel: Oh, this one's very interesting.
[12:10] Daniel: I wanna know how you think about this I literally don't worry about getting ripped off when it comes to, like, service stuff.
[12:21] Daniel: And what I mean by that is I think generally I assume whatever it is I'm doing, whether it's getting my o- oil changed or some car maintenance or whatever, right?
[12:31] Daniel: Getting a paint job done on, on the car, Or like, getting our air conditioner vents in our home, like, cleaned, right?
[12:39] Daniel: I just feel like everyone's gonna offer roughly the same price, which is the best price and really high service.
[12:45] Daniel: Otherwise, I know they just wouldn't be in business.
[12:47] Daniel: And so in the US the comparison for me is like whenever I need to get a service j- job, job done-
[12:53] 128_Finale_pt1: Mm
[12:54] Daniel: I am s- it's so stressful cause I spend so much time researching reviews, comparing prices- getting quotes, trying to, like, bargain them down to try to, make sure I'm getting a fair and reasonable price.
[13:07] Daniel: And more than anything, not getting
[13:08] Jun: scammed.
[13:09] Daniel: Right?
[13:09] Daniel: Like, how do I know they're gonna do a good job?
[13:11] Daniel: How do I know they're not charging me t- two times what they should be?
[13:14] Daniel: And in Korea, I just don't even think about that, and it's just, it's so nice.
[13:19] Daniel: Yeah.
[13:19] Daniel: Obviously, An add-on to this with the service industry and how nice it is in Korea, it's, like, no tipping.
[13:25] Jun: Mm-hmm.
[13:26] Daniel: In particular I'll call out restaurants, haircuts, and massages.
[13:30] Daniel: Like, these are things I'm always stressed...
[13:31] Daniel: Not stressed, but just, like, it's always like,"Oh, it's so expensive." Like, you have to leave, You 20% tip for all these things.
[13:39] Daniel: And in Korea, again, it's just included in the price, or it's not expected to tip beyond what the price is.
[13:45] Daniel: so you just...
[13:46] Daniel: I I feel so much better about getting all these service things In Korea compared to, compared to America.
[13:53] Jun: Mm-hmm.
[13:54] Jun: Why- Does
[13:54] Daniel: resonate with you?
[13:55] Jun: like- Why do you think that is, though?
[13:59] Jun: I
[13:59] Daniel: think...
[14:00] Daniel: think...
[14:00] Daniel: I don't know.
[14:01] Daniel: I, I don't know if like the, the Korean equivalent of the Better Business Bureau or some organization that makes sure businesses are operating ethically.
[14:11] Daniel: I don't know if the Korean version of that is just really good- or if consumers are so knowledgeable that they'll just like, a, a, a scammy business or service cannot stay in business very long-
[14:22] Jun: cause
[14:22] Daniel: they'll lose customers or word will get out- or people will leave negative reviews.
[14:27] Daniel: but for whatever, for whatever reason, I also feel like in, in the US, like everyone's just trying to maximize their, their
[14:32] Jun: profit.
[14:33] Jun: Mm-hmm.
[14:33] Jun: And
[14:34] Daniel: so if they can get a- get away with scamming you, it's up to the individual to kinda like, you know, take care of that and be responsible for that on their own.
[14:43] Daniel: Yeah, I just feel like there's not this collective, Pushback against businesses that are not operating ethically or charging, overcharging, and things Like that.
[14:52] Daniel: Mm.
[14:52] Jun: Mm-hmm.
[14:52] 128_Finale_pt1: You know?
[14:54] Daniel: but do you feel that way?
[14:55] Daniel: Like, do you ever think twice when...
[14:57] Daniel: Like, when you're gonna get a service done, let's again, a air condition cleaning.
[15:04] Daniel: Do you feel like you have to do a lot of research here, read reviews carefully, compare prices, or do you just like find a nearby one and just go for
[15:11] Jun: it?
[15:12] Jun: Mm.
[15:13] Jun: I'm just realizing the mental model of when you're, let's say, searching for a service- Mm-hmm is going to be quite different- Mm-hmm compared to the US and Korea.
[15:23] Jun: Meaning that if just by listening to you- Yeah if I were to be in the US, my number one thought is like,"How can I not be scammed?" Yeah.
[15:32] Jun: Or like, how can I not get the worst service- In Korea, when I'm searching, it's like, How do I get the best service-" out of the already okay ones?" Ah, interesting.
[15:43] Jun: Yeah.
[15:43] Daniel: yeah.
[15:44] Daniel: Like you're trying to raise the ceiling rather than like raise the floor of
[15:48] Jun: outcomes.
[15:48] Jun: Mm-hmm.
[15:48] Jun: Mm-hmm.
[15:49] Daniel: One thing that just came to mind, I think I have mentioned this before it's just density.
[15:54] Daniel: Yeah.
[15:54] Jun: Yeah.
[15:54] Daniel: So in the US it's like a plumber- like in the nearby area, okay, there are like five- Mm-hmm
[15:59] Jun: right?
[16:00] Daniel: that I can choose from.
[16:01] Daniel: In Korea, I suspect there's 50- like within every single area.
[16:04] Daniel: But yeah, I think that density you know, and like word gets out and reputation is maybe so high.
[16:10] Daniel: In America you just don't...
[16:11] Daniel: I don't think consumers have as much choice.
[16:13] Daniel: Yeah.
[16:13] Daniel: so you're just well, there's only one daycare nearby.
[16:15] Daniel: There's only one plumber- that can come, or only one car dealer, right, within a certain mile radius.
[16:21] Jun: So,
[16:22] Daniel: Those are bad examples in a sense'cause like there are, of course, in metropolitan areas- tons of plumbers, tons of car dealers.
[16:28] Daniel: But I think you get my point.
[16:29] Daniel: Overall, there's just, because America is so spread out, there's just not as much demand- and consumer choice.
[16:37] Jun: Well, I think everything comes with a price, right?
[16:39] Jun: Mm-hmm.
[16:39] Jun: I think this hyper-optimized society in Korea could be a result of the super competitiveness and density, right?
[16:48] Jun: Mm-hmm.
[16:48] Jun: And so if you think about, well, of course, if you think about the life of the consumer- Mm-hmm it's super convenient.
[16:55] Jun: Much better in Korea.
[16:56] Jun: But- Yeah let's put our shoes in the views of the service providers, right?
[17:02] Jun: Mm-hmm.
[17:03] Jun: Yeah.
[17:03] Jun: Constant competition- Yeah you have to optimize, could be pretty stressful.
[17:07] Jun: Yeah.
[17:07] Daniel: One bad person putting bad reviews could- destroy your business and reputation.
[17:11] 128_Finale_pt1: Yeah.
[17:12] Jun: Yeah.
[17:12] Jun: And in the same way, let's think about the daycare owner in a small US town is the only daycare center.
[17:23] Jun: How relieving would that be?
[17:24] Jun: Yeah.
[17:25] Jun: Yeah.
[17:25] Jun: Yeah.
[17:26] Jun: Well, you have no choice.
[17:27] Jun: Yeah.
[17:27] Daniel: it or leave it
[17:28] Jun: And there- In a lot of ways
[17:29] Daniel: does feel that way sometimes, like
[17:31] Jun: take it or leave it.
[17:31] Jun: Yeah.
[17:31] Jun: The
[17:32] Daniel: consumer doesn't have as much leverage in the
[17:34] Jun: situation.
[17:34] Jun: Mm.
[17:35] Jun: And so that daycare owner's life would be not as convenient and easy as it is in Korea.
[17:42] Jun: Mm-hmm.
[17:42] Jun: But they might have a different level of relief and comfort too.
[17:46] Jun: Mm-hmm.
[17:46] Jun: Mm-hmm.
[17:46] Jun: Yeah.
[17:47] Daniel: Yeah.
[17:49] Daniel: Anyway, yeah, this was a surprising one.
[17:51] Daniel: I realized though, it's just
[17:52] Jun: like, man,
[17:52] Daniel: it maybe because as we're transitioning back to the US- I'm having to think a lot more about these services.
[17:59] Daniel: Buying a car, getting plumbers, getting cleaners, all
[18:01] Jun: that stuff.
[18:02] Jun: Mm-hmm.
[18:02] 128_Finale_pt1: Mm-hmm.
[18:03] 128_Finale_pt1: yeah,
[18:03] Jun: I
[18:04] Daniel: realized it hasn't been a stress in Korea as
[18:06] 128_Finale_pt1: much.
[18:06] Jun: Mm-hmm.
[18:06] 128_Finale_pt1: Yeah.
[18:08] Daniel: Yeah.
[18:08] Daniel: Final one is a big one, but just national healthcare coverage- that isn't tied to employment.
[18:13] Jun: Mm-hmm.
[18:15] Jun: I know
[18:16] Daniel: America has been improving in this- but I'm pretty sure America's dead last in the world when it comes to this.
[18:22] Daniel: Like, just having a baseline level of affordable healthcare for everyone.
[18:28] Daniel: And so yeah, obviously Korea I think is probably on the, the better end of this.
[18:32] Daniel: And so just that contrast is especially
[18:33] 128_Finale_pt1: stark.
[18:34] 128_Finale_pt1: Mm.
[18:35] Jun: I have a bit of a mixed feeling towards this
[18:39] Daniel: Which one?
[18:39] Daniel: The healthcare?
[18:40] Jun: Everything- Everything that you listed.
[18:42] Jun: Okay.
[18:42] Jun: Interesting.
[18:43] Jun: Not only you, but every time I stumble upon, let's say, a reels of a foreigner saying like,"What's so good about Korea?"
[18:50] 128_Finale_pt1: Uh-uh...99%
[18:52] Jun: it is about the convenience.
[18:54] Jun: Oh.
[18:55] Jun: Right?
[18:55] Jun: Mm-hmm.
[18:55] Jun: And I feel like the good...
[18:59] Jun: L- let's say there's a category called good characteristics of a country, right?
[19:03] Jun: I
[19:05] 128_Finale_pt1: I know
[19:05] Daniel: where you're going.
[19:06] 128_Finale_pt1: Okay.
[19:07] Jun: Okay.
[19:08] Jun: And I feel like there could be a tier system- Mm-hmm of, like, let's say...
[19:12] Jun: It's kind of like, the industry.
[19:13] Jun: Yeah.
[19:13] Jun: Yeah.
[19:14] Jun: Like, there's like a primary industry, and then you move on to secondary, and then you move on to the tertiary, right?
[19:18] Jun: Uh-huh.
[19:19] Jun: And like, as the society evolves, I think you have to move on from like the physical thing, to maybe metaphysical- Mm.
[19:26] Jun: or philosophical thing, right?
[19:28] Jun: Mm-hmm.
[19:28] Jun: Mm-hmm.
[19:28] Jun: I've never once heard a foreigner say Korea's so good because of like some philosophical thing that
[19:35] Daniel: Korea's so good
[19:36] Jun: Yeah.
[19:36] Daniel: of like some philosophical thing that we- Freedom.
[19:37] Daniel: Yeah.
[19:37] Daniel: Or like, the peop- People are...
[19:39] Daniel: I, I know what
[19:40] Jun: you mean.
[19:40] Jun: I, I feel like, of course I'm very proud of the physical things or the convenience that Korea could provide.
[19:48] Jun: But I would be more happy if we can move on from them- Uh-huh......'cause I think we solved this problem, right?
[19:55] Jun: Interesting.
[19:56] Jun: Maintain this, and then let's move on to, let's say, what is the overall philosophy of Korea?
[20:02] Jun: Yeah.
[20:02] Jun: 'Cause I think that is something that Korea lacks.
[20:04] Jun: Mm.
[20:05] Jun: we don't have a philosophy towards things.
[20:07] Jun: Yeah.
[20:07] Jun: Yeah.
[20:07] Jun: We don't...
[20:08] Jun: Everything that we choose to do is towards efficiency and not philosophy.
[20:14] Jun: Mm.
[20:14] Jun: And I think sometimes I- witnessed this in, like, let's say, developed Western, like Western, European countries or Northern European countries where they deliberately choose something that is not as efficient maybe- but choose because it's their philosophy of-
[20:32] Daniel: in line with how they want their country to Like the ethos of it- Yeah or the principles of it.
[20:38] Jun: Mm.
[20:38] Jun: I feel like Korea really needs that- Mm and would greatly benefit from
[20:43] 128_Finale_pt1: that.
[20:44] Daniel: I still remember the episode where this came up- Mm-hmm...which is like, Jun, does Korea not have like a founding document?" Yeah Or like a constitution upon which is very, not legalistic, but like principled.
[20:56] Daniel: Yeah.
[20:57] Daniel: like, the Declaration of Independence in America, for example.
[20:59] Jun: Mm-hmm.
[21:00] Daniel: And you were like- I don't think so."
[21:03] Jun: We have a constitution, but I don't think it's like- But what, like a declaration of independence.
[21:05] Jun: Yeah.
[21:05] Jun: yeah, yeah.
[21:06] Jun: Yeah.
[21:06] 128_Finale_pt1: Yeah.
[21:07] 128_Finale_pt1: Yeah.
[21:07] 128_Finale_pt1: Yeah.
[21:07] 128_Finale_pt1: Like a-
[21:08] Jun: like a white paper?
[21:12] Daniel: know, it's more like what is this country founded on?
[21:15] Daniel: Yeah.
[21:15] Daniel: And, you know, in, in the US everyone will always quote like life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
[21:20] Daniel: Yeah.
[21:20] Daniel: Like, that is what the Founding Fathers set out and envisioned America to become.
[21:25] Daniel: And yeah, Korea doesn't have that tagline or slogan- or
[21:28] Jun: or founding principles, right?
[21:29] Jun: yeah, maybe just,
[21:31] Daniel: like independence, not being conquered, being powerful.
[21:35] Daniel: Developing economically maybe.
[21:37] Daniel: But, you know, none of those are more philosophical like you're
[21:39] 128_Finale_pt1: saying.
[21:40] 128_Finale_pt1: Yeah
[21:41] Jun: What if there is something latent- Yeah that people
[21:44] 128_Finale_pt1: Don't really,
[21:46] Jun: Realize, but there is one?
[21:48] Jun: Don't say Jeonghyeok.
[21:51] 128_Finale_pt1: Jeong,
[21:51] Daniel: You
[21:52] Jun: know I was gonna say that, right?
[21:54] Jun: Jeong, Han, and then Chi.
[21:55] Jun: I really...
[21:56] Jun: Okay.
[21:56] Jun: The founding principles of Korea.
[21:57] Jun: That is so sad if Han is a founding principle of our society.
[22:03] Jun: Yeah.
[22:03] Jun: But let's say...
[22:05] Jun: No, in all seriousness- Mm you stay here for almost five years.
[22:09] Jun: If you can, like, retrofit- Yeah
[22:13] Daniel: Yeah
[22:14] Jun: founding principle of what modern Korea is right now- Man could there be?
[22:19] Jun: one?
[22:22] Daniel: Okay.
[22:23] Daniel: Like what it is or what I think it could aspire to be?
[22:25] 128_Finale_pt1: be?
[22:26] Jun: Hmm.
[22:27] Jun: Maybe both.
[22:28] Daniel: Again, unfortunately, I think I have an overall, I think a balanced but slightly negative perspective of modern Korea.
[22:35] Jun: Yeah.
[22:35] Daniel: Right?
[22:36] Daniel: Hyper-competitive, Obsessed with economic- gain and status- Yeah and luxury- and, and things like that.
[22:45] Daniel: But I do think the one thing that I really, really deeply appreciate is
[22:48] 128_Finale_pt1: this
[22:49] Daniel: kind of, putting the collectivist good- ahead of, like, the individual, like, want in that moment.
[22:56] Daniel: And just making sure everything in a sense is, set up so that no one can maybe unfairly get an advantage compared to the next person.
[23:08] Daniel: and I think that enforces some things like very strict adherence to the letter of the law, right?
[23:13] Daniel: Some of the rules and regulations that are put in place.
[23:17] Daniel: But also it extends to things like, you know, not trashing the public restrooms because- everyone's using it- So let's take care of it type ethos.
[23:25] Daniel: So yeah, I think that is probably something that I think is very different between, Korea and America, but I think is, is true in Korea and kind of a positive.
[23:35] Daniel: Yeah, just kind collectivist, let's do what's right for the greater whole mentality.
[23:40] Daniel: Mm-hmm.
[23:41] Daniel: And not just, like, every single person trying to, like, hyper optimize their own outcome within society.
[23:47] Daniel: 'Cause you can imagine if it was, like, super competitive.
[23:51] Daniel: Hey, I used the restroom.
[23:52] Daniel: I don't need to clean up after it I'm done with it." Yeah.
[23:54] Daniel: Like, why do I care about the next person coming along?
[23:57] Daniel: or whether it's a playground or anything, right?
[23:59] Daniel: Like, in a lot of the places I grew up in the US, like, every public basketball court, the rim was broken
[24:06] Jun: off.
[24:06] Jun: Mm-hmm.
[24:06] Daniel: people would just vandalize it, right?
[24:08] Daniel: Mm-hmm.
[24:09] Daniel: And you know, there was no accountability, no, follow through.
[24:13] Daniel: "It's just it was just had agreed,"Well, it's just unpreventable." It's just, how it is." And therefore, you know, new basketball rims didn't get put up, and like, now people can't have public basketball
[24:24] Jun: courts.
[24:24] Jun: Mm-hmm.
[24:25] Daniel: And there were...
[24:26] Daniel: You know.
[24:26] Daniel: So from that perspective, I think Korea is it's a really good part of Korean culture.
[24:30] Daniel: Yeah.
[24:30] Daniel: You know, let's take care of everything for the good of all of us.
[24:33] 128_Finale_pt1: Mm.
[24:34] 128_Finale_pt1: So.
[24:35] Jun: I think while I do think that Korea should, mm, try to be more diverse in the way that they think- Mm-hmm and physically in the, demographic.
[24:48] Jun: But something that we can really take advantage of the, the-
[24:57] 128_Finale_pt1: homogeneity.
[24:58] Jun: homogeneity.
[25:00] Jun: Nailed it.
[25:01] Jun: And the collective mindset- Yeah is that it's very easy, much more easier to empathize- Mm-hmm towards others.
[25:10] Jun: Mm-hmm.
[25:10] Jun: Meaning that let's go back to the public bathroom analogy.
[25:15] 128_Finale_pt1: Yeah.
[25:16] Jun: like it's because I have a very strong feeling that the other person wouldn't like this- Mm-hmm so I do not do that.
[25:23] Jun: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[25:23] Jun: I think there's a more stronger and easier way to understand that in Yeah.
[25:29] Jun: I'm not sure
[25:30] Daniel: the let's say, driving force behind it is the healthiest- but I think the outcome is definitely great.
[25:35] Jun: Yeah.
[25:36] Daniel: is everyone generally
[25:38] Jun: follows the care of
[25:39] Daniel: publicly.
[25:41] Daniel: and it benefits themselves, but also their
[25:43] Jun: neighbors.
[25:43] Jun: Mm.
[25:44] Daniel: But I do, I do
[25:45] Jun: think root
[25:46] Daniel: of that is, like, they don't wanna be noochibad and shamed.
[25:48] Daniel: That's the
[25:49] Jun: That's the same, cause Yeah.
[25:51] Daniel: Yeah.
[25:51] Daniel: exactly.
[25:52] Daniel: They don't wanna feel that shame from others, which is why they do it.
[25:55] Daniel: But again, the outcome I think is quite good.
[25:57] Jun: Mm.
[25:58] Jun: And it also got me thinking about how does a country define a founding principle- they a- they've already been founded, right?
[26:09] Jun: Mm.
[26:09] Jun: And I think America is very lucky in that they founded, like, They founded a country very later on in history.
[26:18] Jun: Ah, I see what you mean.
[26:19] Jun: Yeah.
[26:19] Jun: And so they had a chance to actually do that.
[26:21] Jun: But, like, how can you define a found- founding principle of a country that's been here for, like, thousands of
[26:28] 128_Finale_pt1: years- Mm right?
[26:30] Jun: Interesting.
[26:30] Jun: At one point you have to do it, right?
[26:32] Jun: I think China maybe could have done- Oh, I was gonna bring up China- Yeah a very modern example
[26:35] Daniel: of this, right?
[26:36] Daniel: With the five-year economic plans- Yeah and the change of leadership.
[26:39] Jun: But they had to go through that- Yeah, a very hard time through, yeah, a lot of sacrifice.
[26:44] Daniel: Korea had a very hard time too.
[26:46] Daniel: I
[26:47] Jun: think
[26:49] Daniel: that's where, I know I wasn't gonna bring this up now,
[26:51] Jun: but- Mm
[26:52] Daniel: One of the realizations I had, and and I think it colors a lot of Korean politics and society- it's like, it's like a new democracy.
[26:59] Daniel: It's only 30- ish-ly years old
[27:02] Jun: as a democracy,
[27:03] Daniel: right?
[27:03] Daniel: And
[27:03] Jun: so
[27:05] Daniel: the demonstration culture, like people really
[27:08] Jun: not,
[27:09] Daniel: Standing up and fighting up, fighting against, say,
[27:13] 128_Finale_pt1: Oh, I'm
[27:13] Daniel: forgetting all my
[27:14] 128_Finale_pt1: words.
[27:15] Jun: An- you know, being very anti-corruption- Mm high
[27:18] Daniel: of their political leaders- and
[27:19] Jun: and things like that.
[27:20] Jun: Mm.
[27:20] Jun: I think refreshing
[27:22] Daniel: in a lot of ways.
[27:24] Daniel: And I hope Korea doesn't lose that, right?
[27:26] Jun: Mm.
[27:27] Jun: but
[27:27] Daniel: I, I think they still really stand up against anything they see as corrupt.
[27:31] Daniel: And I appreciate
[27:32] 128_Finale_pt1: that.
[27:32] 128_Finale_pt1: Yeah.
[27:33] 128_Finale_pt1: Mm-hmm.
[27:35] Daniel: But getting back to your point, it's like, yeah, it is a new democracy.
[27:38] Daniel: I think all it takes is a leader with a very strong vision and, like, realization that maybe the country needs to start establishing some of these- guiding principles, For how Korea wants to grow over the next 50 years, let's
[27:51] 128_Finale_pt1: say.
[27:51] 128_Finale_pt1: Mm.
[27:52] 128_Finale_pt1: But-
[27:53] Jun: I do think Korea had its chance, let's say, after a war.
[27:56] Jun: Mm Right?
[27:56] Jun: Yeah.
[27:57] Jun: Like, when we were basically starting from scratch.
[28:00] Jun: Starting over.
[28:01] Jun: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
[28:01] Jun: But I think the difference between how the US started and how Korea started is that we...
[28:07] Jun: Like, the US didn't start as a post-war country.
[28:10] Jun: Mm-hmm.
[28:11] Jun: right?
[28:11] Jun: They had...
[28:12] Jun: They started from a very abundant mindset, right?
[28:15] Jun: From,
[28:16] Daniel: from the perspective of European settlers, yes.
[28:19] Jun: yeah.
[28:19] Jun: Obviously, indigenous Oh, okay, okay...people got wrecked.
[28:21] Jun: Yeah.
[28:23] Jun: In that, yeah, like the fou- founding father's perspective.
[28:27] Jun: Yes.
[28:27] Jun: Yeah.
[28:27] Jun: Yeah.
[28:27] Jun: It's like we have this abundance of land.
[28:31] Jun: Yeah.
[28:31] Jun: Let's, like, let's start a great country, right?
[28:33] Jun: Mm-hmm.
[28:33] Jun: But I think Korea was in a very different situation where we just- Oh had to survive.
[28:37] Jun: Yeah.
[28:37] Jun: And so even...
[28:39] Jun: I'm pretty sure we had something like that, and we still do have something like that, but it didn't really resonate with the people, I guess, at the time.
[28:46] Jun: Mm.
[28:47] Jun: And was more about economic development.
[28:49] 128_Finale_pt1: Mm-hmm.
[28:49] 128_Finale_pt1: Yeah.
[28:50] Daniel: I think, As Korea has transitioned out of this survival state
[28:54] Jun: mentality- Mm-hmm you know, now can
[28:57] Daniel: forward towards a, let's say, thriving
[29:00] Jun: future- Mm-hmm,
[29:01] Daniel: Maybe it becomes more, you know, practical- Yeah and possible to start thinking about the more abstract, Principles on which the country wants to grow moving forward.
[29:10] Daniel: Mm-hmm.
[29:10] 128_Finale_pt1: But,
[29:11] Daniel: You know, all that said,
[29:12] Jun: like,
[29:14] Daniel: again, Korea is...
[29:15] Daniel: The miracle of the Han River, like Korea's economic development, like what modern Korea looks like today is just incredible.
[29:22] Daniel: Like, I think all Koreans should be incredibly proud of how this country has developed over the last 70 years.
[29:28] Daniel: It's not perfect but, you know, it is such a stark improvement overall in my mind compared to what it was before.
[29:35] Daniel: And now I think, of course, they can maybe course-correct things they might have gone too far...extreme on.
[29:40] 128_Finale_pt1: Mm-hmm.
[29:40] 128_Finale_pt1: But Yeah.
[29:41] 128_Finale_pt1: Yeah.
[29:41] 128_Finale_pt1: Mm.
[29:43] Daniel: Okay.
[29:44] Daniel: Next set of some reflections, Jun.
[29:48] Daniel: Things I'll miss in Korea.
[29:50] Daniel: Would call it the restaurant dining norms.
[29:52] Daniel: So, you know, when you sit down, you just call someone when you're ready to order or you order from the kiosk.
[29:58] Daniel: You don't have to wait for the waiter or waitress to come to you get your initial drink order, come back later- to get your main order.
[30:06] Daniel: You just, like, call, they come, you order.
[30:09] Daniel: And when you're done, you also just get up and leave and pay.
[30:12] Daniel: It's so
[30:12] Jun: nice.
[30:15] Daniel: You know, water and banchan and stuff being self-service.
[30:18] Daniel: And then of course, again, I'll mention again, no tipping.
[30:21] Daniel: I don't I don't, I don't know how I'll feel going back to, like, the more traditional restaurant experience.
[30:27] Daniel: I think it'll be quite an adjustment.
[30:29] Daniel: Yeah.
[30:31] Daniel: There are a class of everyday Korean foods that I just never ate regularly in the US.
[30:37] Daniel: It was kind of a special treat or once in a while.
[30:40] Daniel: I'll call out,
[30:41] Jun: Gukbap.
[30:42] Daniel: I found my love for gukbap.
[30:44] Jun: Korean barbecue,
[30:45] Daniel: specifically like the, you know, samgyeopsal, taejigogi
[30:48] Jun: style.
[30:49] Jun: Mm-hmm.
[30:49] Daniel: think in the US, for me, it was always like primarily galbi.
[30:53] Daniel: Ah.
[30:53] Daniel: Yeah.
[30:54] Daniel: And so I think moving over to pork primarily I think has been a bit of a change.
[31:00] Daniel: And I, I like it actually.
[31:01] Daniel: And finally I'll say some of the comfort foods like gimbap, ramen.
[31:06] Daniel: Yeah, that was, that was a very consistent meal for me.
[31:10] Daniel: I might probably ate it once a week for like a year.
[31:12] Daniel: Wow.
[31:13] Jun: Yeah.
[31:13] Jun: Do you have a go-to?
[31:14] Daniel: Yeah, there's one near our place that...I like to go to.
[31:17] Daniel: Oh.
[31:18] Daniel: Babidang Kkibidad.
[31:19] 128_Finale_pt1: Yeah.
[31:19] 128_Finale_pt1: Oh, that
[31:20] Jun: place is expensive.
[31:21] Daniel: Is it?
[31:22] Daniel: they they kept saying like, Ah, we should charge more." It's 10,000 won for, a gimbap roll and a ramen bowl.
[31:28] Daniel: Yeah.
[31:30] Daniel: think Pangyo is generally more expensive than
[31:31] Jun: Seoulville.
[31:32] Jun: Mm.
[31:32] Jun: Mm.
[31:32] Jun: Mm.
[31:34] Daniel: But yeah, those foods are things that, you know, I could go to a Korean grocery store, get a roll of gimbap.
[31:40] 128_Finale_pt1: Mm-hmm.
[31:41] Daniel: But again, it's just like, it's so easy and convenient to find these everywhere in Korea.
[31:46] Daniel: And yeah, I will miss them dearly.
[31:48] Jun: Yeah.
[31:50] Daniel: I'm gonna add on to this with cafe culture.
[31:52] Daniel: I'm still not a big coffee drinker overall, but, you know, I can appreciate the amount of like, care that goes into the aesthetic,
[32:01] Jun: the,
[32:02] Daniel: the quali- quality of the coffee.
[32:03] Daniel: Just like, you know, Korean cafes, they're so abundant and so, So much variety, and they're all beautiful and, you know, Instagrammable.
[32:11] Daniel: And so- yeah, I think
[32:12] Jun: at least
[32:13] Daniel: the suburbs in uh, in America, it's not like that, right?
[32:15] Daniel: A lot of strip malls, they're all Starbucks.
[32:18] Daniel: It's just
[32:19] Jun: like,
[32:19] Daniel: uh, kind of nothing like that cafe aesthetic, and
[32:23] 128_Finale_pt1: so.
[32:24] Jun: I think in terms of coffee quality, I think what's Korea is best at- Mm is the average quality that, you can just get- Mm.
[32:32] Jun: Yeah by just walking into any cafe.
[32:34] Jun: Mm.
[32:34] Jun: I am pretty sure that, like let's say Japan or the US, if you find the best of the best coffee, I think it'll be better- Yeah than the best coffee here in Korea.
[32:43] Jun: But like your average coffee- Yeah I think the quality is very high.
[32:47] Jun: Mm.
[32:47] Jun: And I think it's like the top in the world.
[32:49] Jun: Yeah.
[32:49] Jun: Yeah.
[32:50] Jun: Yeah.
[32:50] Jun: Yeah.
[32:51] Jun: it's
[32:51] Daniel: in line with the earlier comment I made about service industry in
[32:54] Jun: general.
[32:54] Jun: Mm.
[32:55] Daniel: Like, if you're not good, you're not gonna stay in
[32:57] Jun: Yeah.
[32:57] Daniel: so overall, the average level is very, very high.
[33:02] Daniel: This one, okay, it's a bit out of order, but I wrote down some, like, just snapshots of moments with kids.
[33:10] Daniel: Just like routines that we had as a family that we did a lot- that I hope the kids will remember too.
[33:16] Daniel: For example, Every time I walk the kids home from the bus stop, you know, randomly stopping by for some street food.
[33:23] Daniel: Whether it's, like ojingeo ttukkim or eomuk or gimbap-......or bungeo-ppang, right?
[33:29] Daniel: Hodu-gwaja.
[33:30] Daniel: Like, I just love that.
[33:32] Daniel: Just, like, walking home, they smell it or they have a craving.
[33:34] Daniel: We get it on the way home and we eat it,
[33:36] 128_Finale_pt1: right?
[33:36] 128_Finale_pt1: Mm-hmm.
[33:37] Daniel: You know, Just teaching my second and third kid to bike ride in the apartment, Danji area.
[33:43] Daniel: And just, like, in general, bike riding everywhere.
[33:46] Daniel: I think our most common routes were to Hyundai Department or
[33:48] 128_Finale_pt1: Park, Hwarang
[33:49] Daniel: to the nearby, you know, Hwarang
[33:50] Jun: Park,
[33:51] Daniel: Hwarang Gongwon.
[33:52] Daniel: Yeah, just, like, bike riding as a family or pushing our youngest one in the stroller and just going on these walks, think we did so frequently.
[34:00] Daniel: And it's kind of those everyday things that I think I'll miss, and I really hope the kids remember.
[34:04] Daniel: Mm.
[34:04] 128_Finale_pt1: Mm.
[34:05] Jun: Speaking
[34:06] Daniel: of the nearby park, Jun, there's, like, a water splash pad during the summer.
[34:10] Daniel: That's really awesome.
[34:11] Daniel: Yeah.
[34:11] Daniel: They installed a, a, a mud trail.
[34:13] Daniel: I think it's called
[34:14] Jun: a- Yeah.
[34:15] Daniel: Do you know what I'm
[34:15] Jun: about?
[34:16] Jun: Yeah.
[34:16] 128_Finale_pt1: What's the Korean word?
[34:17] 128_Finale_pt1: Hwangto
[34:18] Jun: Hwangto-gil?
[34:18] Jun: Yeah, Hwangto-gil.
[34:19] Jun: Yeah.
[34:21] Jun: you know,
[34:21] Daniel: our kids love taking off their socks and shoes and, getting really dirty doing this mud walk.
[34:27] Daniel: And, you know, having picnics there, flying kites, throwing balls.
[34:31] Daniel: I think, you know, it was a staple of our day-to-day life, and I hope also they will remember it.
[34:36] 128_Finale_pt1: it.
[34:36] 128_Finale_pt1: Yeah.
[34:37] Daniel: And finally, I mentioned it earlier, but convenience store runs.
[34:40] Daniel: For me, convenience stores have lost their luster.
[34:43] Daniel: but for my kids, they they love it.
[34:45] Jun: Mm-hmm.
[34:46] Daniel: "Oh, can we go to a convenience store run?" Like, we'll get ice cream.
[34:48] Daniel: What can we buy?""Oh, one snack, one drink." And then now it's especially, I think, sweet because the older kids just take the whole kid...
[34:55] Daniel: like, my wife and I don't have to accompany
[34:57] Jun: them.
[34:58] Jun: Mm-hmm.
[34:59] Jun: the
[34:59] Daniel: card, and they'll go buy and make sure that they're responsible with what they purchase.
[35:03] Daniel: And yeah, it gives them some independence too.
[35:06] Daniel: so I think these are a category of things that I just, Hope they'll remember, and I hope I remember
[35:11] 128_Finale_pt1: too.
[35:12] 128_Finale_pt1: Mm-hmm.
[35:15] Daniel: This one's a little surprising actually for me, but I was thinking about it and I stand by this The holidays in Korea feel way less stressful to me.
[35:25] Jun: Stressful?
[35:26] Jun: Yeah.
[35:27] Jun: 'Cause you don't have to do anything.
[35:28] Jun: Is that why?
[35:30] Daniel: It's For example, it's just driving two hours versus flying six.
[35:34] Daniel: Like a six-hour flight, right?
[35:35] Daniel: It's so stressful, expensive, tedious.
[35:38] Daniel: But you just, you know, hop in the car and drive two hours to get where you need to go.
[35:42] Daniel: And to your point, not that we don't do anything, but it's always similar.
[35:47] Daniel: Like the routine is established, right?
[35:49] Daniel: Well, we're gonna do this.
[35:50] Daniel: There's nothing extra to think about or prepare.
[35:53] Daniel: You don't have to figure out what the menu's gonna be.
[35:54] Jun: Mm.
[35:55] Jun: It's always the
[35:56] 128_Finale_pt1: same.
[35:57] Daniel: And there is a niceness to that.
[35:58] Daniel: Again, there's downsides.
[36:01] Daniel: But at least my recollection of all these, you know, Thanksgiving, Christmas holidays in the US, it's always like
[36:07] 128_Finale_pt1: stressful.
[36:08] Daniel: What are we gonna do?
[36:09] Daniel: What are we gonna cook?
[36:10] Daniel: Who are we gonna invite?
[36:11] Daniel: Where are we gonna go this year?
[36:12] Daniel: You always have to plan these logistics.
[36:15] Daniel: And then like, you know, of course I love Christmas, right?
[36:18] Daniel: But it's like, I think Christmas in Korea was much simpler.
[36:22] Daniel: You just buy gifts for your family, right?
[36:24] Daniel: But in the US it's like, oh, you have to buy so many gifts for so many people, and it's like you have to be thoughtful and purchase in advance and make sure it arrives in time.
[36:32] Daniel: It's just so much
[36:33] Jun: work.
[36:34] Jun: But isn't that more memorable though?
[36:36] Daniel: There's a joy to it, for
[36:37] Jun: sure.
[36:37] Jun: I, I feel like I, I can't distinguish the past 20 Chuseoks.
[36:43] Jun: It's just the same, like- Yeah playbook, whatever.
[36:47] Jun: I can ex- But again- I can exactly- depict what's gonna happen- Yeah in this year's Chuseok, from beginning to end, and...
[36:55] Daniel: Again, there's trade-offs.
[36:57] Daniel: I would say in the US, I agree, it's more memorable, Maybe more meaningful
[37:00] Jun: even.
[37:01] Jun: it's also more
[37:03] Daniel: and more work- in my mind.
[37:04] Daniel: so there is a comfort in just the routine- that I came to appreciate- here
[37:09] 128_Finale_pt1: in Korea.
[37:11] Daniel: Kind of related to this, you know, I, I put it under the geography umbrella.
[37:16] Daniel: It's like inter-Asia travel.
[37:19] Daniel: I'm gonna miss being able to go to so many countries you know, in these five years we went to Taiwan, Malaysia, Philippines, Vietnam, Japan multiple times, Australia, Guam.
[37:28] Daniel: Like- Wow.
[37:29] Daniel: These are countries I, you know, maybe would've gone to one of those in five years.
[37:33] Daniel: 'Cause it's such a big trip from the US.
[37:35] Daniel: But from Korea, it's much more accessible.
[37:37] Jun: You basically went to everywhere that you can go except for China.
[37:41] Daniel: I have two regrets.
[37:42] Daniel: Yeah, I, I'll get to it later.
[37:44] Daniel: But since it came up, yeah, we didn't get to go to China and, We didn't get to go to New Zealand,
[37:50] 128_Finale_pt1: so.
[37:50] Jun: Zealand.
[37:50] Jun: Mm.
[37:51] Daniel: It's still super far.
[37:52] Daniel: New Sh-
[37:53] Jun: Zealand's
[37:54] Daniel: far still from Korea.
[37:56] Daniel: But it's at least, we're on the same like
[37:59] Jun: Mm.
[38:00] Daniel: What is it?
[38:01] Daniel: It's not- Yeah, like
[38:03] Jun: What, what's that?
[38:04] Jun: We
[38:04] Daniel: just fly south.
[38:05] Daniel: We don't like have to
[38:06] Jun: fly south and west- Yeah
[38:09] 128_Finale_pt1: the US.
[38:10] Daniel: It at least feels a
[38:11] Jun: little more accessible.
[38:12] Jun: Longitude.
[38:12] Jun: Longitude.
[38:13] 128_Finale_pt1: Longitude
[38:14] Daniel: We're on the same longitude, correct?
[38:19] Daniel: And then the final one in this category before I take a break, it's, you know, there's some traditions we had as a family, right?
[38:25] Daniel: And these will continue, I believe, but still nonetheless, I w- I will miss them.
[38:30] Daniel: Friday night's burger night, and then we do movies.
[38:33] Daniel: We always microwave popcorn.
[38:35] Daniel: Saturdays were supposed to be cooking Saturdays, where We cook something together as a family.
[38:39] Daniel: That was very inconsistent.
[38:42] Daniel: but we'd also on the weekends camp together, which means we just sleep all together on the floor of our living And we
[38:49] Jun: did that far
[38:50] Daniel: much, and my quality of sleep was so
[38:52] Jun: low.
[38:53] Jun: But I know this is something I'll miss.
[38:55] Jun: Uh-huh.
[38:55] Jun: Not that we
[38:56] Daniel: do it and we might carry this tradition forward in the
[38:58] Jun: US.
[39:00] Jun: But
[39:00] Daniel: some reason it just felt so
[39:02] Jun: much
[39:03] Daniel: easier to do or more natural in Korea.
[39:06] Daniel: Like, you do sleep on the floor.
[39:07] Daniel: You just bring out the sleep pad and you sleep on the
[39:10] Jun: and you sleep on the floor.
[39:10] Jun: Yeah.
[39:10] Daniel: right?
[39:11] Daniel: It's not sacrificing your bed or mattress for it, And so it just felt a little bit more natural here.
[39:16] Daniel: Yeah.
[39:18] Daniel: All right, Jun.
[39:18] Daniel: Next I have some sensory things, but nothing like when you did your five senses of America.
[39:25] Daniel: That was next level.
[39:27] Daniel: But yeah, just some quick things like I think the smell of street food, specifically bungeo-ppang and hodugwaja.
[39:33] Daniel: It's just so good.
[39:34] Daniel: It's so hard to resist, right?
[39:36] Daniel: I'm not alone in that.
[39:36] Daniel: It's like, do you feel the same way?
[39:38] Jun: I think the general Korean consensus is top tier of that is the deli
[39:46] Daniel: What's
[39:47] Jun: What's deli manju?
[39:47] Jun: It's like the-- like, it has like a corn kind of mold, and then it has the- custard inside.
[39:53] Jun: Oh.
[39:53] Jun: Yeah, yeah,
[39:53] Daniel: Oh, yeah.
[39:53] Jun: yeah, But it's one of those things that it smells much better- than it actually tastes.
[39:57] Jun: I agree with that.
[39:59] Jun: But it smells so good.
[40:01] Jun: Oh, we do the tier
[40:02] Daniel: rankings of, like irresistible smells.
[40:05] Daniel: Yeah.
[40:05] Daniel: For me it's Hodu-gwaja.
[40:06] Daniel: Mm.
[40:06] Daniel: Even though I don't like it...
[40:08] Daniel: I think I like Bungeo-ppang better, but the hodugwaja smell is stronger for so alluring.
[40:13] Daniel: Yeah.
[40:14] Daniel: Sound-wise, I came up with, The cicada
[40:18] Jun: humming
[40:18] Daniel: during the summer.
[40:19] Daniel: Mm.
[40:19] Jun: Mm-hmm.
[40:20] Daniel: Subway chimes of course.
[40:21] Daniel: And then the Kakao dial tone.
[40:24] Daniel: I think that's very recognizable, right?
[40:26] Daniel: And I think I'll always be teleported to Korea when I hear Visually just, I know you hate it, but I love it, the, the bright neon street signs everywhere.
[40:37] Jun: Mm-hmm.
[40:37] 128_Finale_pt1: Like, just the, you know, uh,
[40:39] Jun: five story villa
[40:40] Daniel: like plastered with, with signs for the stores inside.
[40:45] Daniel: You know, the crowded alleyways and just, you know, even around here in this neighborhood, like those alleyways for me it's like nothing like it in the US, for, you know, Especially suburbia, right?
[40:55] Daniel: yeah, I'll miss that dearly.
[40:57] Daniel: And then this one is a throw- Like, again, in California it's not as seasonal but I love just, like, warm summer nights even though it's humid.
[41:08] Daniel: I, love that.
[41:08] Daniel: feeling of just like being blasted by humidity.
[41:12] Daniel: I definitely appreciate that.
[41:13] Daniel: Mm.
[41:13] 128_Finale_pt1: So,
[41:14] Daniel: you know, you get that on the East Coast, but I had been living in California so long, so I hadn't gotten that
[41:19] 128_Finale_pt1: as much.
[41:21] Daniel: Seasonal rhythms overall, again in line with the lack of seasons in California.
[41:26] Daniel: But you know, in spring it's cherry blossom season.
[41:29] Daniel: In summer you get the cicadas.
[41:32] Daniel: By the way, like, does the cicada hum make you feel even hotter.
[41:36] Daniel: Is that like- a
[41:39] Jun: a consensus?
[41:39] Jun: Ooh.
[41:39] Daniel: I just feel like the humming makes me feel hotter.
[41:42] Daniel: It's like-
[41:43] Jun: It does give you a sense that it's like peak summer.
[41:45] Jun: Right?
[41:46] Jun: 'Cause that's when they actually start- Yeah humming.
[41:49] Daniel: I know, I know it's not actually making it hotter, but whenever I hear it, I'm just like, Oh, it's even hotter than it should be." Yeah.
[41:56] Jun: I never thought of it that way, but I think it's true.
[41:58] Jun: Yeah.
[41:59] Jun: Yeah.
[42:00] Daniel: I love these public splash pads and mini water parks- free in the summer too.
[42:05] Jun: Mm-hmm.
[42:06] Daniel: Fall, it's about fall leaves and then hiking season for me.
[42:10] Daniel: And then of course in the winter, the first snow just playing in the snow in front of the house I think, or apartment.
[42:16] Daniel: Just our kids are so happy and that's all they need to, to have a great time.
[42:21] Daniel: And then, you know, in line with the seasons, there's the seasonal street foods, right?
[42:25] Daniel: Bungeo-ppang in the winter, bingsu in the summer.
[42:28] Daniel: Oh, bingsu's
[42:28] 128_Finale_pt1: Oh, bingsu
[42:29] Jun: so good.
[42:29] Daniel: Yeah.
[42:30] Daniel: And then the seasonal fruits, right?
[42:31] Daniel: So strawberries I think in gyul in the winter.
[42:35] Daniel: oh.
[42:35] Daniel: Shine Muscat I think comes in the fall.
[42:37] Daniel: Of course, watermelon, this is equal in the US too, but watermelon in the summer.
[42:42] Daniel: And then yeah, apples in the fall too, So it's just like, I think we're spoiled in California.
[42:47] Daniel: the produce is good year-round.
[42:49] Daniel: Yeah.
[42:49] Jun: Yeah.
[42:50] Daniel: For whatever reason, whether it's imported or grown locally or whatever.
[42:54] Daniel: But in Korea, I've really come to appreciate when it comes into season, you you know, because you can't get it year-round,...like it's extra good to me.
[43:02] Jun: Mm-hmm.
[43:03] Daniel: So yeah, I like that.
[43:04] Daniel: I think in general, like, there's this feeling Jun, liv- even though we're not in Seoul, we're still in, you know, kind of a urban area.
[43:12] Jun: Mm-hmm.
[43:13] Jun: I've
[43:13] Daniel: never been one to like urban areas, but I've come to appreciate it greatly, the walkability.
[43:18] Daniel: but also this feeling that, like, there's always something going on.
[43:22] Jun: Oh.
[43:22] Jun: Or,
[43:23] Daniel: know, you can always go out and, and do something, whether it's just meet up at a golbangjip at 12 o'clock or whatever it might that.
[43:30] Daniel: you definitely don't get in suburbia, right?
[43:33] Daniel: And so I really I think I will miss that.
[43:35] Daniel: And let me be clear, it's not, it's not that I went out a lot.
[43:40] Daniel: Like, I think really once every two, three months- I'll leave the house after 8:00 PM.
[43:46] Daniel: Yeah.
[43:46] Daniel: Like, that's how infrequently I went
[43:47] Jun: out.
[43:47] Jun: Uh-huh.
[43:49] Daniel: But just the fact that I know I could
[43:52] Jun: makes life better.
[43:53] Jun: Yeah.
[43:53] Jun: you know what I mean?
[43:53] Jun: Yeah.
[43:54] Jun: Definitely.
[43:54] Daniel: It's like the island, the island mentality too, it's just like even if I'm not leaving the island the fact that I can't leave the island makes me feel worse about being
[44:03] Jun: stuck here.
[44:03] Jun: Yeah, of course.
[44:04] Daniel: And so I think just having that available, even if I'm not doing it frequently- Mm-hmm.
[44:09] Daniel: it makes me feel mentally, you know, Oh, everything's more exciting.
[44:12] Daniel: There's more possibility in
[44:13] 128_Finale_pt1: life.
[44:14] 128_Finale_pt1: Mm-hmm.
[44:14] 128_Finale_pt1: Yeah.
[44:14] Daniel: And then I guess final one in this section, It's just about some of the nature stuff.
[44:20] Daniel: So, You know, just of course there's tons of nature overall, right?
[44:24] Daniel: There's trees, there's shrubbery in the US, there's massive national parks and all these things that are wonderful.
[44:30] Daniel: But at least like day-to-day, I felt much more to nature- In Korea in like a weird way.
[44:37] Daniel: And I guess what I mean is specifically there's like running trails by the water
[44:42] Jun: Mm.
[44:42] Daniel: and that was not as easy to get to.
[44:45] Daniel: I would have to drive somewhere to get to that in the US versus here I just like pop out of my apartment.
[44:50] Daniel: There's hikes I can get to just by, by subway, right?
[44:53] Daniel: I don't have to, again, drive and park And plan all this stuff.
[44:56] Daniel: I can just like take a 10-minute subway ride to Cheonggyecheon and go up
[45:00] Jun: that.
[45:01] Daniel: Even though I take-- don't take advantage of it, I just like, I feel great comfort whenever I see the public exercise equipment.
[45:08] Jun: Oh.
[45:08] Jun: Maybe
[45:09] Daniel: one ajusshi or ajumma is using like the machine that I would never use, but it's just, it's endearing whenever I see it.
[45:17] Daniel: And of course I've mentioned before like, You know, just, seeing the mallard ducks, for example.
[45:21] Daniel: And just like seeing some of the, the, the circle of life in a sense.
[45:26] 128_Finale_pt1: Mm.
[45:26] Daniel: Whether it's the birds or anything.
[45:28] Daniel: So yeah, I I like that feeling that I've gotten here in Korea.
[45:33] Daniel: Jun, next section is home life.
[45:36] Daniel: Specifically, sorry, like
[45:38] Jun: the house
[45:39] Daniel: in Korea, apart?
[45:39] Jun: Mm-hmm.
[45:42] Daniel: Not-- there's not much that I will miss
[45:45] Jun: Oh.
[45:46] Daniel: Oh.
[45:46] Daniel: But the, the three things I came up with are I will miss heated floors,
[45:50] Jun: Ah, Donu.
[45:51] Jun: Uh-huh.
[45:51] Jun: Nothing better than a warm
[45:54] Daniel: floor in winter.
[45:55] Jun: Yeah.
[45:56] 128_Finale_pt1: It's so nice.
[45:57] Daniel: I will miss the the double-paned window I think are just-- They're really good.
[46:03] Daniel: Yeah.
[46:04] Daniel: They're great for insulation, great for sound isolation, and just quiet, and they're just, they just work so
[46:10] Jun: well.
[46:12] Jun: again,
[46:12] Daniel: they don't exist in most, most homes in the US.
[46:14] Daniel: Maybe a few, yeah.
[46:16] Daniel: At least in the homes I've lived, I've never had something like this.
[46:19] Daniel: And then I've talked about it many times before.
[46:21] Daniel: I will miss my Coway water dispenser.
[46:25] Jun: But that's
[46:25] Daniel: it, man.
[46:26] Daniel: I-
[46:28] Jun: Nothing else about the house?
[46:30] Daniel: Nope.
[46:31] Daniel: Sorry.
[46:32] Jun: Wait.
[46:33] Daniel: I will not miss the tiny What is it?
[46:36] Daniel: A washing machine.
[46:38] Daniel: Sorry, dishwa- I will not miss, Jun, the tiny surface counter dishwasher.
[46:44] Daniel: I will not miss, the tiny multi-range microwave oven combination.
[46:50] Jun: I will not miss
[46:51] Daniel: the lack of garbage disposal.
[46:53] Daniel: I will not miss sorting my trash.
[46:55] Daniel: I will not miss- 쓰레기.
[46:58] Daniel: I will not miss, Lack of HVAC and, like, the constant feeling of, Still air in the house.
[47:05] Daniel: I will not miss
[47:07] Jun: 인버터
[47:07] Daniel: air
[47:09] Jun: Inverter-less.
[47:09] Jun: Inverterless.
[47:10] Daniel: Inverterless.
[47:10] Daniel: Inverterless.
[47:11] Daniel: I will not miss the standalone AC units.
[47:14] Daniel: I will not miss like, drying racks and like, n- none of this I will miss.
[47:20] Jun: will But what, what about the convenience that comes from living in the apartment, Like the 관리, like the maintenance and stuff like that?
[47:28] Daniel: I will
[47:28] Jun: not
[47:29] Daniel: that.
[47:29] Daniel: Yeah.
[47:29] Daniel: I don't mind changing my own light bulbs or, you Yeah.
[47:34] Daniel: doing some minor housework.
[47:35] Daniel: I don't mind that at all.
[47:36] Jun: Mm.
[47:36] Daniel: In fact, eh, I kinda miss it a little
[47:39] Jun: bit-
[47:39] Daniel: ...like being handy.
[47:41] Daniel: For example, like I never had a set of power tools here in Korea.
[47:45] Daniel: and so therefore, when I was like constructing IKEA furniture, like I just couldn't do it as well- or as easily.
[47:51] Daniel: And like there's always things I was like,"Ah, I wish I had my drill set.
[47:55] Daniel: "I wish I had my tools." I'm not that handy, but I think those small things I I don't miss at all.
[47:59] Daniel: In fact, I'll look forward to doing
[48:01] Jun: again.
[48:03] Daniel: I really don't...
[48:04] Daniel: can't think of anything else I'll miss.
[48:06] Daniel: The security that comes from living in a apartment community.
[48:09] Daniel: Yeah, I, I already mentioned I'll miss that But I won't miss mean neighbors.
[48:15] Daniel: I won't miss halmeonis at the gym.
[48:18] Daniel: I won't miss...
[48:20] Daniel: oh, just like,
[48:21] Jun: Yeah, that.
[48:26] Jun: Oh.
[48:26] Jun: Is she still there?
[48:27] Daniel: I stopped golfing, so I don't know.
[48:29] Daniel: Oh.
[48:30] Daniel: But no, I won't miss any of that, Jun.
[48:32] Daniel: Yeah, I I miss my home so much.
[48:34] Daniel: I miss yeah, having space.
[48:36] Daniel: I'll get to that later.
[48:37] Jun: Yeah.
[48:37] Daniel: Yeah.
[48:38] Daniel: Okay.
[48:38] Daniel: Jun, I think these are a lot more of the surface level things that are, are, are done.
[48:42] Daniel: Let me just keep going.
[48:45] Daniel: is this okay, by the way?
[48:46] Jun: Yeah.
[48:46] 128_Finale_pt1: Yeah?
[48:47] 128_Finale_pt1: okay.
[48:47] 128_Finale_pt1: Mm-hmm.
[48:48] Daniel: Yeah, I guess the, the people now, of course, like, there's a lot of good friends I've made.
[48:54] Daniel: But overall, I will miss the ability to see my grandmother.
[48:57] Daniel: Even though it didn't happen too often, maybe three, four, five times a year.
[49:02] Daniel: Still just knowing that we could go see her.
[49:04] Daniel: If anything happens, we can be there for her.
[49:07] Daniel: Knowing that she's there, I, I think being in the same time zone to make calls and things like that, I just...
[49:12] Daniel: Of course I'll miss that.
[49:13] 128_Finale_pt1: Mm-hmm.
[49:14] Daniel: I think I'll, I'll miss the ability to really make life easier for friends and family that are visiting.
[49:22] Daniel: Oh, I think, again, Korea's been such a...
[49:25] Daniel: You know, when you host people in the US, it's like, it's nothing, like, really special.
[49:31] Daniel: Like, it's just within America, right?
[49:33] Daniel: But when people are traveling all the way to Korea or Asia, especially th- if they're not Korean- like, just being able to make their trip that much more smoother, give them recommendations, right?
[49:43] Daniel: Like, help take care of things for them.
[49:45] Daniel: I think that was it was really fun for us.
[49:47] Daniel: And so I think I'll miss the ability to, to do that and then I, you know, I have often lamented, Jun, the lack of these loose connections, but there were a couple of these I'll call micro-communities- that I will miss.
[50:01] Daniel: So, yoga with the-...yoga with the ajummah-deul.
[50:04] Daniel: Yeah.
[50:05] Daniel: I'll miss yoga there.
[50:07] Daniel: I'll miss the f- you know, few friendly faces I've come to, come to know in the apartment community.
[50:14] Daniel: I'll miss my church life group, small group.
[50:16] Daniel: That one, Has been a huge blessing.
[50:19] Daniel: And actually, my wife and I realized, like, we've only been in that group for, like, a year and a half.
[50:25] Daniel: Yeah, it just feels like that was such a big difference in how we felt, community here in Korea.
[50:30] Daniel: So we we will really miss that.
[50:32] Daniel: Mm-hmm.
[50:32] 128_Finale_pt1: Mm-hmm.
[50:33] Daniel: Specifically the Korean daycare and kindergartens.
[50:36] Daniel: I am still so amazed, and I feel like so fortunate that our kids got to attend them, For as long as they did.
[50:44] Daniel: just the care that the teachers provide and, just the nurturing environment and...
[50:49] Daniel: But, but also, like, educational and, you know, learning in, too.
[50:53] Daniel: It's just, they're so good.
[50:55] Daniel: Of course, you know, certain parents we've made good friends our older kids' school.
[51:01] Daniel: And then of...
[51:02] Daniel: there was also this group, I think I mentioned a couple times our Trans Asia Summit.
[51:07] Daniel: So it's our family in Korea, another family in Taiwan, another family in Singapore.
[51:11] Daniel: We would try every year to get together to do a short trip within Asia.
[51:15] Daniel: And so yeah, We obviously...
[51:17] Daniel: We could still do it with them, but now being in the US moving forward, it's gonna be much, much, harder...and, like, a much bigger
[51:23] 128_Finale_pt1: commitment.
[51:24] 128_Finale_pt1: So,
[51:25] Jun: I, I don't-
[51:26] Daniel: Know if we'll be able to continue.
[51:28] Daniel: Yeah, I'll miss these micro communities Yeah.
[51:31] Daniel: I think moving on to something I've mentioned many times, this is one of the bigger ones.
[51:36] Daniel: I will miss the feeling of just fitting in.
[51:38] Daniel: Yeah.
[51:39] Daniel: Being invisible in a sense, but more than that, just like blending in.
[51:43] Daniel: Mm-hmm.
[51:44] 128_Finale_pt1: Right?
[51:44] Daniel: I've often made the analogy, I think, Korea...
[51:47] Daniel: Being Korean in Korea is like being white in America.
[51:51] Daniel: okay, you're just accepted.
[51:52] Daniel: There's no questions, no qualifiers.
[51:55] Daniel: You don't feel like your race or how you look will ever hold you back in any way or result in like preconceived judgment or anything, right?
[52:02] Daniel: So, I recognize this is a, a blessing and not everyone in Korea experiences this, but as a Korean American, I, I feel like I've been fortunate in that way.
[52:11] 128_Finale_pt1: Mm-hmm.
[52:12] Daniel: And actually, I'll take it a step further.
[52:13] Daniel: I feel like being Korean American in Korea is even, like, more of an advantage in certain ways.
[52:20] Jun: Like,
[52:21] Daniel: I don't know if this is okay to say.
[52:22] Daniel: I feel like it's almost like being Jewish in
[52:24] Jun: America.
[52:27] Daniel: So hear me out, not just white, But you know, Jews have a tight community.
[52:32] Daniel: I- it feels like they're in a lot of very...
[52:34] Daniel: Relative to their small population-......a lot of very powerful or privileged positions.
[52:40] Daniel: and, you know, but they also get a lot of hate for that, right?
[52:43] Daniel: And I think Korean Americans, and gyopos in
[52:45] Jun: in Korea-
[52:46] Daniel: similarly are in a very advantageous position.
[52:49] Daniel: But we also get some hate.
[52:50] Daniel: And so, yeah, I, don't know if that was a
[52:52] Jun: safe analogy.
[52:53] Daniel: Definitely not a safe analogy to make, but I, I made
[52:56] Jun: it.
[52:57] Daniel: So yeah, I think that's, I don't know if I'll talk more about this later, but Okay, I think that's all of them before I move on to things I will not miss,
[53:08] Jun: Mm
[53:08] Daniel: I'm neutral about, and personal reflections.
[53:12] Daniel: So Sorry, listeners.
[53:15] Daniel: This is the, the Daniel brain dump, so, I've already mentioned things I, Some things I will not miss, but let me keep going.
[53:24] Daniel: Things I will not
[53:25] Jun: miss,
[53:25] Daniel: Jun.
[53:26] Jun: Mm.
[53:27] Daniel: The narrow parking spots.
[53:30] Daniel: Jeez, like literally, have to be a contortionist sometimes.
[53:34] Daniel: Like suck in my stomach all the way.
[53:36] Daniel: I'm still like scraping myself while holding the door open or putting my finger in between my door- and the car next to me so I don't damage the car.
[53:45] Daniel: as I'm like literally squeezing and like scratching myself to get out of the car.
[53:51] Daniel: Or like some of the turns I've had to make to like turn around or park in these spots in these parking garages, it's literally like a 20-point turn.
[54:00] Daniel: Like forward one inch, back one inch, forward one inch,
[54:01] Jun: back one inch just to like squeeze into this
[54:03] Daniel: tiny spot that I then have to like contort my body to get out of.
[54:07] Daniel: It is, it's absurd some of the situations I've been in.
[54:10] Daniel: Yeah.
[54:10] 128_Finale_pt1: Mm-hmm.
[54:12] Daniel: Along with the parking in general
[54:14] Jun: any time I'm planning to drive somewhere- Mm-hmm
[54:16] Daniel: I've said this before, I
[54:18] Jun: have to add five minutes at and after
[54:21] Daniel: to get into the elevator- go down to the parking garage, walk to my car, get out of the parking spot, right?
[54:28] Daniel: And then on the flip side, when I arrive, I have to, you know, get in, find the parking spot, park, and then go up the elevator to, get where I'm trying
[54:35] Jun: to go.
[54:35] Jun: Mm.
[54:36] Daniel: Man, it's just like when I was in the US, I remember it's just like, oh, 10 seconds, I'm like in my house, and then I'm on the road.
[54:44] Jun: And
[54:44] Daniel: when you park, you just like park, and then you just go into the store.
[54:46] Daniel: There's none of this additional added time in the beginning and in the end.
[54:51] 128_Finale_pt1: Jun,
[54:52] Daniel: Jun, you knew this was coming.
[54:54] Daniel: Things I will not miss: noonchi.
[54:58] Daniel: I just feel like it's so, even though I can agree it results in some good outcomes- like generally good behavior in public just feel like it's so passive just like I wish it could be more open and direct, or really like people wouldn't judge as much- when you do something that is out
[55:18] Jun: of the
[55:18] 128_Finale_pt1: norm.
[55:19] 128_Finale_pt1: Mm.
[55:21] Daniel: Yeah.
[55:21] Daniel: I will never miss, you know, I, I will never forget that feeling of like, again, walking from the airport general terminal into the Korean Airlines area.
[55:29] Daniel: Mm-hmm.
[55:30] Daniel: And just like
[55:32] Jun: the absolute silence
[55:33] Daniel: and judgment that came when my kids were being a little bit loud.
[55:36] Daniel: Mm.
[55:38] Daniel: was just like, ugh.
[55:39] Daniel: Anyway I will not miss Korean Costcos at all.
[55:44] Daniel: It's just not a pleasant experience for me.
[55:47] Daniel: I we made the mistake of going to c- Costco in Korea on the weekend the other time.
[55:52] Daniel: It was like,"Oh, it's not like peak time.
[55:54] Daniel: It should be okay." Big mistake.
[55:57] Daniel: it was the it was the worst
[55:58] Jun: idea.
[55:58] 128_Finale_pt1: It's
[55:59] Daniel: It's just so crowded.
[56:01] Daniel: Things are out.
[56:02] Daniel: Like, so 볶잡해.
[56:04] Daniel: Yeah, so I, I will not miss that, especially in contrast to how much I love going to Costco
[56:09] 128_Finale_pt1: in the US.
[56:09] 128_Finale_pt1: Mm.
[56:10] Daniel: I will not miss not being able to pay for experiences that I'm willing to pay for Again, namely tickets and concerts and things like that
[56:19] Jun: It's like,
[56:20] Daniel: you know, I don't think my wife is going to go to a BTS concert in Korea, sadly.
[56:24] Daniel: But in America she'll probably go to many.
[56:26] Jun: Mm.
[56:28] Jun: It's just,
[56:28] Daniel: again, if you're willing to pay I think you can get them more easily in the US.
[56:33] Daniel: Oh, Jun, I will not miss Korean swimming pools.
[56:36] Daniel: The rules are so strict.
[56:37] Daniel: It's not for fun, it's for exercise.
[56:40] Daniel: It feels very kid unfriendly......for me.
[56:43] Daniel: And you know, Korean pools being the specific example, but in general, The rules being against what I would consider common sense, like sometimes.
[56:53] Daniel: Anyway, if you're bald, you shouldn't have to wear a swim cap,
[56:56] 128_Finale_pt1: right?
[56:58] Daniel: Anyway
[56:59] Jun: Oh,
[56:59] Daniel: oh, this is a big one, Jun.
[57:00] Jun: Oh, you still have to wear a s- swim cap if y- even if you're bald?
[57:04] 128_Finale_pt1: Yeah.
[57:05] Jun: Interesting.
[57:07] Jun: These final
[57:08] Daniel: are more meaty though.
[57:09] Jun: Mm-hmm.
[57:10] Daniel: I will miss-- I will not miss the feeling of being incompetent.
[57:14] Daniel: Just like, you know, I I feel so unable to get anything I need to get done easily- in Korea.
[57:24] Daniel: Everything is difficult for me.
[57:26] Daniel: And I blame...
[57:26] Daniel: You know, it's my own fault, right?
[57:27] Daniel: It's my language inability, et cetera.
[57:30] Daniel: But yeah, I, I feel
[57:31] Jun: so competent in
[57:33] Daniel: in the US, and I miss that feeling desperately.
[57:38] Jun: I'm
[57:38] Daniel: so helpless here.
[57:39] Daniel: And it's so much better with like, you know, I, have the AI translation on my phone and like I can get by.
[57:46] Daniel: But I, I don't think I, I quite realize how much friction and overhead there is mentally, and like every little thing is, is not easy for
[57:55] 128_Finale_pt1: me.
[57:55] 128_Finale_pt1: Mm.
[57:56] Daniel: And so, In line with that, I think it's, Just being a foreigner too.
[58:02] Daniel: I think every interaction feels like there's additional friction, right?
[58:06] Daniel: So for example, there's things I can't do in online banking'cause I'm a foreigner.
[58:11] Daniel: I can't do online things at the Jumin Center.
[58:13] Daniel: I have to go in person to get documents because I'm a foreigner, Proving that I'm married to my wife as a foreigner, it is so painful and so difficult.
[58:23] Daniel: and Like every last thing, it, it just seems so hard.
[58:27] Daniel: And you know, in addition to this, it's like registering for Korean apps or having to register before you do anything in Korea.
[58:35] Daniel: Like I remember we were trying to play badminton in the lo-lo-local like um, health center in Korea.
[58:42] Daniel: And like at some point, like they just switched over where you have to have an account, you have to do everything online.
[58:47] Daniel: You can't do in-person kiosk.
[58:49] Jun: And
[58:50] Daniel: my-- I was just sitting there, like my son and I had come on a day off and we were expecting to play, and it took me 35
[58:56] Jun: minutes- Oh
[58:57] Daniel: with the help of the person.
[58:59] Daniel: And they were confused.
[59:00] Daniel: They were like,"Oh, this is not working.
[59:01] Daniel: Okay, let me reset the password." It's like blah, blah, blah.
[59:03] Daniel: It's like finally we
[59:04] Jun: got it,
[59:05] Daniel: you know, but 35 minutes
[59:06] Jun: later.
[59:06] Jun: Mm.
[59:07] Jun: Ah.
[59:07] Jun: so...
[59:09] Daniel: These are things I will not miss.
[59:13] Daniel: And then Jun, next section.
[59:16] Daniel: The- these are things I am very conflicted about little neutral.
[59:20] Jun: Oh, wait.
[59:20] Jun: Before that Oh
[59:21] 128_Finale_pt1: Tell me
[59:22] Jun: I had some thoughts.
[59:23] 128_Finale_pt1: Okay.
[59:25] Jun: First of all, I think, I think you're, you're...
[59:28] Jun: About the nunchi thing Yeah I think you're...
[59:30] Jun: at this very weird limbo state- Mm-hmm where that you can feel the nunchi- Mm-hmm but you don't know exactly how to behave- Uh-huh.
[59:39] Jun: Right?
[59:40] Jun: Yeah It's either...
[59:42] Jun: You can either have very good nunchi and know exactly how to behave- Yeah.
[59:45] Jun: Yeah or fit in or you have zero nunchi, so you don't really care.
[59:48] Jun: Yeah.
[59:49] Jun: you're- you're So you're in this, like-...blissfully unaware.
[59:50] Jun: yeah, yeah, yeah And then about everything, Having more friction because you're a foreigner- Yeah and I felt like you were the jjampong in the five jjajangmyeon.
[1:00:04] Jun: It's like, because- Yeah...Korea is hyper-optimized in a very certain way- Yeah in a very homogenous society, and I think, yeah, the expense of that is that one-
[1:00:14] Daniel: The exception cases
[1:00:15] Jun: ...that jjampong particularly painful.
[1:00:20] Jun: And then you know what I realized?
[1:00:22] Jun: I think we should have done this the opposite order.
[1:00:25] Jun: Oh.
[1:00:28] Daniel: No, Jun, we'll bring it home with the
[1:00:29] Jun: emotional- Self-reflection.
[1:00:31] Jun: Okay.
[1:00:34] Daniel: But again, I think these are very...
[1:00:37] Daniel: Yeah, I don't think that any of these were super-
[1:00:40] Jun: No, th- very understandable.
[1:00:40] Jun: okay, okay.
[1:00:40] Jun: Yeah.
[1:00:40] Jun: All right, Jun.
[1:00:40] Jun: There's
[1:00:41] 128_Finale_pt1: very understandable.
[1:00:41] 128_Finale_pt1: Oh,
[1:00:41] Daniel: they're very realistic.
[1:00:41] Daniel: Yeah.
[1:00:41] Daniel: Okay, okay.
[1:00:44] Daniel: Jun.
[1:00:44] Daniel: There's a bucket of things I feel very mixed
[1:00:46] Jun: about.
[1:00:46] Jun: Oh, this one's
[1:00:47] 128_Finale_pt1: interesting.
[1:00:49] Daniel: Elevators.
[1:00:49] Daniel: Oh, you feel mixed now?
[1:00:51] Jun: Oh, you feel mixed now?
[1:00:52] Jun: 'Cause you, you just had a negative feeling
[1:00:55] Daniel: know, the close
[1:00:56] Jun: very good things
[1:00:57] Daniel: button works.
[1:00:58] Daniel: You can cancel
[1:00:59] Jun: The canceling you know, close
[1:01:00] Daniel: It
[1:01:00] Jun: works.
[1:01:01] Jun: Uh-huh.
[1:01:01] Jun: You can cancel buttons.
[1:01:02] Jun: Mm-hmm.
[1:01:02] Jun: It just,
[1:01:02] Daniel: it's functional.
[1:01:03] 128_Finale_pt1: Mm.
[1:01:04] Jun: still
[1:01:05] Daniel: stand, I get so angry, irrationally angry, irrationally angry when I see them not operating, I think, in a smart
[1:01:15] 128_Finale_pt1: manner.
[1:01:16] Jun: see that thing I never got.
[1:01:18] Jun: Like, how- it happens
[1:01:20] Daniel: all the time.
[1:01:22] Jun: Like, Is this just your apartment?
[1:01:23] Jun: No, I'm at I
[1:01:24] Daniel: Is this just your apartment?
[1:01:24] Daniel: No, I'm at Hyundai Baek 化 점.
[1:01:25] Daniel: I see three elevators same floor-...going the same
[1:01:29] Jun: direction.
[1:01:30] Jun: Mm.
[1:01:30] Jun: That drives
[1:01:31] Daniel: me nuts.
[1:01:32] Daniel: There's no way
[1:01:32] Jun: that's optimal.
[1:01:33] Daniel: And I think, I would call it in computer science terms, it's a greedy algorithm- Mm-hmm.
[1:01:37] Daniel: and a very simple, naive one.
[1:01:39] Daniel: Which is like, if someone presses up, all the elevators are gonna go to that floor, right?
[1:01:43] Daniel: Whereas i- in my mind, it should be like, well, if one's already going there, the other ones wait for another thing to go
[1:01:49] 128_Finale_pt1: to.
[1:01:49] Jun: Well, see, the elevator in my building doesn't behave that?
[1:01:53] Jun: way.
[1:01:53] Jun: Okay.
[1:01:53] Jun: Okay.
[1:01:53] Jun: Yeah.
[1:01:54] Jun: 'Cause we have two units, and do you...
[1:01:56] Jun: Did you recognize that?
[1:01:58] Jun: Only one- Well, the- Like, the one that's Yeah...closer to my floor would move
[1:02:01] Daniel: will- Yeah
[1:02:04] 128_Finale_pt1: This
[1:02:04] Jun: not everywhere.
[1:02:05] Jun: Mm-hmm.
[1:02:05] Jun: ......But
[1:02:05] Daniel: I see it a
[1:02:06] Jun: lot.
[1:02:07] Jun: Interesting.
[1:02:07] Jun: Especially in malls.
[1:02:08] Jun: Mm-hmm.
[1:02:09] Daniel: I think for us because we for a long time always took our stroller around.
[1:02:13] Daniel: We like were kind forced to use the elevator.
[1:02:17] Daniel: is so infuriating to
[1:02:19] Jun: me.
[1:02:20] Jun: But why do you have...
[1:02:21] Jun: Oh, that's...
[1:02:22] Jun: Yeah, now I understand why you have mixed
[1:02:23] Daniel: Yeah.
[1:02:24] Daniel: So it's mixed.
[1:02:24] Daniel: There's some good about the elevators and there's some bad about the elevators.
[1:02:28] Daniel: I can appreciate the silent culture in elevators, but then sometimes that really bugs me, because I feel like I wanna have a And I don't want everyone to nunchi about me, so elevators are mixed.
[1:02:41] Daniel: Also Jun, I think like in Korea, at least for me, I spend so much time in elevators compared to the US.
[1:02:47] Daniel: Yeah.
[1:02:47] Daniel: like so
[1:02:48] Jun: much It's a vertical-
[1:02:49] Daniel: It's a vertical- It's a vertical
[1:02:51] Jun: city.
[1:02:51] Jun: Yeah.
[1:02:51] Jun: Yeah.
[1:02:51] Jun: Apartment complexes.
[1:02:53] Daniel: The buildings are like tall and you always have to use it unless you're gonna climb seven stairs to get- to your, You know, dentist or whatever.
[1:03:00] Daniel: It's just like you spend so much time in elevators, and so it, it...
[1:03:03] Daniel: I think that exacerbates my feeling.
[1:03:05] Jun: Mm-hmm.
[1:03:07] Jun: I
[1:03:07] Daniel: I'm neutral on the metric system.
[1:03:09] Daniel: Like I've come to really appreciate it.
[1:03:11] Daniel: And I think I said before in some ways I prefer
[1:03:14] Jun: it.
[1:03:16] Daniel: But I think I'm looking forward to getting back into imperial It's still...
[1:03:21] Daniel: You can't undo 37 years of
[1:03:24] Jun: like- Oh, it's just personal 36 years of living here.
[1:03:25] Jun: It's just your personal bias.
[1:03:26] Daniel: yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[1:03:27] Daniel: I, I'm you know...
[1:03:29] Daniel: But I, I appreciate it's superior,
[1:03:32] Jun: right?
[1:03:32] Jun: Mm-hmm.
[1:03:33] Jun: But I'm
[1:03:34] Daniel: always googling like, oh, what's you know, what's this size in centimeters?
[1:03:38] Daniel: or what's my proper shoe size or all these things, going back to what I know.
[1:03:42] Daniel: But I also feel like less civilized when I use,
[1:03:44] Jun: use use the American system.
[1:03:46] Jun: Mm.
[1:03:47] Jun: It's like I know the rest
[1:03:48] Daniel: the world uses, you know, metric.
[1:03:50] Daniel: It's just I feel less civilized.
[1:03:52] Daniel: But I have to admit, I'm looking forward to getting back to what I know.
[1:03:55] 128_Finale_pt1: Mm.
[1:03:56] Jun: Oh,
[1:03:57] Daniel: I realize a lot of this like nunchi related.
[1:04:00] Daniel: So okay, back-in parking, I'm conflicted.
[1:04:03] Daniel: So I've come to prefer it.
[1:04:04] Daniel: I think it's superior, but there are the occasions where I wanna just pull in.
[1:04:10] Daniel: Specifically when I want easy access to my trunk.
[1:04:12] Daniel: So like at Costco.
[1:04:13] Jun: Mm-hmm.
[1:04:14] Jun: But I
[1:04:14] Daniel: feel like'cause everyone's still backing in, I like I, I just back in and I'm like, Ugh, I hate backing in.
[1:04:19] Daniel: It's so much harder to get to the trunk."
[1:04:21] Jun: Wh- why, why do you think that is?
[1:04:24] Jun: 'Cause I don't drive, I don't really know.
[1:04:27] Jun: why, do I feel like I can't just do front-in parking?
[1:04:29] Jun: Oh, why...
[1:04:29] Jun: No, no.
[1:04:30] Jun: Why is that a culture in Korea?
[1:04:32] Daniel: Oh.
[1:04:34] Daniel: I do think it's superior, but I think I would just say it's like the
[1:04:37] 128_Finale_pt1: group rule thing.
[1:04:37] 128_Finale_pt1: Like-
[1:04:38] Jun: Why is it, why is it superior?
[1:04:39] Jun: it's just, it's just generally accepted.
[1:04:41] Jun: Because
[1:04:41] Daniel: the back wheels are usually the fixed ones- and the front wheels are the only ones that
[1:04:45] Jun: turn- Mm-hmm uh, Ah...easier to accurately
[1:04:47] Daniel: back into a parking spot than it is
[1:04:49] 128_Finale_pt1: to pull
[1:04:49] Jun: in Mm.
[1:04:50] Daniel: Is my understanding.
[1:04:51] Daniel: Mm-hmm.
[1:04:51] 128_Finale_pt1: Mm.
[1:04:52] 128_Finale_pt1: So...
[1:04:53] Jun: But,
[1:04:53] Daniel: know, that's one of those, Jun, this is, like, in the category of things that when I first witnessed it in Korea, I was like, That is the dumbest thing I've ever seen.""Koreans are so weird." Yeah.
[1:05:04] Daniel: Why are they doing it?" And then I actually do a little research and it's like, well, actually back-in parking is superior for these
[1:05:09] Jun: reasons.
[1:05:09] Jun: And I
[1:05:11] Daniel: And then I was like,"Oh, yeah, okay.
[1:05:13] Daniel: I was ignorant." I have many examples like that, but, you know, this is a good one that just'cause you brought it up.
[1:05:18] 128_Finale_pt1: Mm.
[1:05:19] Daniel: Mm.
[1:05:19] Jun: I was thinking maybe it could be more of a mentality thing.
[1:05:24] Jun: Right?
[1:05:24] Jun: Like enduring the suffering f- of now for a better future.
[1:05:30] Jun: no.
[1:05:31] Jun: We,
[1:05:31] Daniel: we brought up all these theories.
[1:05:33] Daniel: Yeah.
[1:05:33] Daniel: I also had the theory that, Koreans when they grocery shop-...they don't buy as much- in one go, right?
[1:05:39] Daniel: 'Cause they just go more frequently.
[1:05:40] Daniel: Yeah.
[1:05:41] Daniel: So therefore, it's not a huge...
[1:05:42] Daniel: They're
[1:05:42] Jun: not ac- that access
[1:05:45] Daniel: the trunk is not as big of a deal to them, right?
[1:05:47] Daniel: I had all these theories about it.
[1:05:49] Daniel: I'm not su- I, I think there might be something to it too.
[1:05:52] Daniel: In, your, you know, what you were saying is like optimize, like put the pain upfront so that you can exit more quickly,
[1:05:58] 128_Finale_pt1: Mm-hmm.
[1:05:59] Daniel: But anyway.
[1:06:01] Daniel: I I am neutral about having to sche- I feel like in Korea I have to schedule everything in advance, right?
[1:06:06] Daniel: So movie theater seats, restaurant reservations.
[1:06:10] Daniel: Like on the one hand it's a hassle, but on the other hand, there's like a security that comes from having a reservation.
[1:06:16] Daniel: Mm.
[1:06:16] 128_Finale_pt1: Mm-hmm.
[1:06:17] Jun: And, and, you know, calling
[1:06:18] Daniel: seeing what the wait's like, right?
[1:06:21] Daniel: In the US I'm just so accustomed just like,"Well, let's just go and see." And it's just like I don't ever expect it to be a big wait, right?
[1:06:27] Jun: So,
[1:06:28] Daniel: I think that's, that's mixed feelings.
[1:06:30] Daniel: one's good.
[1:06:32] Daniel: Salty snacks and sweet desserts.
[1:06:35] Daniel: I miss them, but I'm so...
[1:06:37] Daniel: Like, they're so addictive and unhealthy.
[1:06:38] Jun: Yeah.
[1:06:40] Jun: I told you, I don't
[1:06:41] Daniel: snack in Korea'cause I go to the pyunjejam, I look at all these sweet snacks, I'm like, I don't really want any of them." But in the US I go to the snack department, I'm like,"Doritos,
[1:06:51] Jun: Cheetos-" Uh-huh.
[1:06:52] Jun: like salt and
[1:06:53] Daniel: like I want them
[1:06:53] Jun: all.
[1:06:54] Jun: Mm-hmm.
[1:06:54] Daniel: it's like, it's mixed.
[1:06:55] Daniel: Also I think one way that I've changed, Jun, I eat so much more sugar in Korea.
[1:07:01] Daniel: It's just the accessibility, I think, of ice cream and cafes and desserts everywhere.
[1:07:06] Daniel: Also, it's like part of the culture here.
[1:07:08] Daniel: Like after you eat something spicy, after you drink or whatever, it's like go, go get something sweet, right?
[1:07:14] Daniel: I think that's part of the culture here.
[1:07:16] Daniel: I don't know if I picked it up, but yeah, I
[1:07:18] Jun: I,
[1:07:19] Daniel: realize like I always crave sweet stuff in Korea now.
[1:07:22] Daniel: And I don't remember feeling that way as much in the US.
[1:07:28] Jun: Think Korean s- Korean listeners might be surprised by this.
[1:07:31] Jun: Yeah.
[1:07:32] Jun: 'Cause the general understanding of Koreans towards sugar consumption is that- way out?
[1:07:40] Jun: Yeah.
[1:07:40] Jun: Is it, is it not?
[1:07:42] Daniel: I think that's right.
[1:07:44] Daniel: And so this is maybe just like a gut
[1:07:46] Jun: check,
[1:07:48] Daniel: but I think Okay, the way I would differentiate my experience is I think in Korea I eat less sweet stuff, but very frequently.
[1:07:57] Daniel: It's like, oh, an ice cream here and there, or dessert after every meal.
[1:08:01] Daniel: Mm.
[1:08:01] Daniel: Whereas in America you don't eat it, as frequently, but when I did eat it, super sweet and heavy- Mm
[1:08:08] Jun: Mm and
[1:08:08] Daniel: for
[1:08:08] 128_Finale_pt1: you.
[1:08:09] Jun: A quick ChatGPT research tells me that, the US consumes 1.7 to 1.9 times more sugar.
[1:08:18] Daniel: Than Korea.
[1:08:19] Daniel: Yeah.
[1:08:19] Daniel: Yeah.
[1:08:20] Daniel: I believe that.
[1:08:22] Daniel: But I, for whatever reason,
[1:08:23] 128_Finale_pt1: I-
[1:08:24] Jun: I guess this is a thing.
[1:08:26] Jun: Yeah.
[1:08:26] Jun: I think if you wanna eat...
[1:08:27] Jun: I think I might have brought this up in some other episode.
[1:08:30] Jun: Mm.
[1:08:30] Jun: But I think if you want to eat really healthy, it's easier to do that in the US.
[1:08:34] Jun: In the US.
[1:08:34] Jun: Yeah.
[1:08:35] Jun: Yeah, yeah.
[1:08:35] Jun: But just average rela- average healthy food is better to access in Korea.
[1:08:42] 128_Finale_pt1: Mm.
[1:08:42] Daniel: I, I, I agree with
[1:08:43] Jun: that.
[1:08:44] Jun: Yeah.
[1:08:44] Daniel: Yeah.
[1:08:46] Daniel: Salty snacks though.
[1:08:47] Daniel: Yeah, there's, there's a, a dearth of sal- snacks in Korea for
[1:08:51] 128_Finale_pt1: sure.
[1:08:51] 128_Finale_pt1: Mm.
[1:08:54] Daniel: Trash sorting, I feel neutral about this.
[1:08:56] Daniel: Mixed, again.
[1:08:58] Daniel: I recognize the benefits in Korea, but I'm also looking forward to just, like, throwing everything away in one giant bag.
[1:09:07] Daniel: I'll feel
[1:09:07] Jun: guilty doing it,
[1:09:08] Daniel: it- but I think very quickly I'll acclimate and just feel comfortable.
[1:09:12] Jun: Yeah.
[1:09:14] Daniel: Yeah.
[1:09:15] Daniel: That's it.
[1:09:17] Daniel: Neutral, mixed feelings.
[1:09:19] Daniel: These were all a little bit more shallow than you were thinking, right?
[1:09:22] Jun: Kind of.
[1:09:23] Jun: Yeah, yeah.
[1:09:24] Jun: Yeah.
[1:09:24] Daniel: I, that's why I didn't like it either.
[1:09:26] Daniel: It felt very- shallow.
[1:09:29] Daniel: But yeah.
[1:09:30] Jun: Final section, Jun.
[1:09:31] 128_Finale_pt1: Jun.
[1:09:31] 128_Finale_pt1: Mm.
[1:09:32] Daniel: Personal growth.
[1:09:34] 128_Finale_pt1: Hmm.
[1:09:35] Daniel: And like overall reflections.
[1:09:37] 128_Finale_pt1: June.
[1:09:38] Daniel: Okay, let's see.
[1:09:39] Daniel: I wrote a section for some regrets.
[1:09:41] Daniel: I think, again, some of the more surface level things, there were some unchecked bucket list items.
[1:09:46] Daniel: I never got to hike much.
[1:09:48] Daniel: Baekdusan, Seoraksan, Hallasan, Jiri San, didn't go to any of them.
[1:09:52] Jun: Wait, Baekdusan is in North Korea.
[1:09:55] Daniel: Oh, what's the one in
[1:09:56] Jun: central Seoul?
[1:09:58] Jun: Bukhansan?
[1:09:58] Jun: Bukhansan.
[1:09:59] Daniel: San?
[1:09:59] Daniel: Bukhan San.
[1:10:02] Daniel: Wait, how is Bukhan San not in North Korea?
[1:10:04] Daniel: That sounds like a North Korean mountain.
[1:10:06] Jun: Ah, it's a different- Chinese character.
[1:10:08] Jun: It- but I understand.
[1:10:10] Daniel: I also want to go to Baekdusan.
[1:10:12] Daniel: Yeah.
[1:10:12] Daniel: But that might never
[1:10:13] Jun: happen.
[1:10:14] Daniel: Okay, this one I, you know, if any listener has any connection to Baekryeongdo.
[1:10:19] Daniel: please reach out, like
[1:10:21] Jun: by email.
[1:10:21] Jun: Baek- Baekryeongdo, yeah.
[1:10:22] Jun: Baekryeongdo.
[1:10:22] 128_Finale_pt1: Baekryeongdo.
[1:10:24] Daniel: Baekryeongdo.
[1:10:25] Daniel: Baekryeongdo.
[1:10:26] 128_Finale_pt1: No?
[1:10:28] Jun: I- it's the Korean pronunciation system- Oh where if the kiuk comes before the ril- Yeah the kiuk becomes a iyun, iyun.
[1:10:36] Jun: Iyun.
[1:10:37] Jun: Oh, Baekryeongdo.
[1:10:39] Jun: Oh, Baekryeongdo.
[1:10:40] Daniel: Baengnyeongdo.
[1:10:42] 128_Finale_pt1: Baengnyeongdo
[1:10:44] Daniel: Oh.
[1:10:45] Daniel: if anyone has any connection there, again my grandma and ma- mom grew up there.
[1:10:50] Daniel: so my halmeoni and eomma grew up there, I would love to see if they can be, be some connection.
[1:10:56] Daniel: But yeah, I, I really wanted to visit this, especially with my mom, But we never got a chance to.
[1:11:01] Daniel: It's really hard to get to It's like a six-hour boat ride one way from Incheon or whatever, and there's not much to do on the island, I think, once you get there.
[1:11:10] Daniel: but yeah, I, I really wish we could have done this but never got to.
[1:11:13] Daniel: And then of course, Jun, I was painfully reminded of this one at the listener meet and greet.
[1:11:19] Daniel: I, I was really hoping to be an extra in a K-drama.
[1:11:22] Daniel: But yeah, never happened.
[1:11:24] Daniel: I didn't put much work into it, but yeah, never happened.
[1:11:28] Daniel: Travel-wise, I said earlier we...
[1:11:30] Daniel: I never got to see southwest of Seoul, right?
[1:11:32] Daniel: Jeollado, Jeollanamdo.
[1:11:34] Daniel: One of our listeners sent us this really detailed email highlighting all of their favorite, like, kind of off the beaten path, non-touristy places in, in Korea to visit.
[1:11:45] Daniel: They all sounded awesome.
[1:11:47] Daniel: Especially I think, you know, Korea has these hundreds if not thousands of little islands on the south coast.
[1:11:51] Daniel: Yeah
[1:11:51] Jun: and
[1:11:52] Daniel: I think most of them are like, you know, you can have a one-night bed and breakfast or something, Like a really fun experience there.
[1:11:58] Daniel: Never got to travel to one of those.
[1:12:01] Daniel: And then overall just like, you know, yeah, I said earlier, m- never traveled to New Zealand and China.
[1:12:06] Daniel: Those are two places I really would like to go to at some point.
[1:12:09] Daniel: But yeah, again this might be repetitive for our more loyal listeners, but really, Jun, I regret I never allowed myself to think of Korea as a potential long-term home.
[1:12:22] Daniel: And so things like never investing in the language learning.
[1:12:26] Daniel: You know, we never really invested in home decor.
[1:12:28] Daniel: It was like living off the cheapest furniture for five years.
[1:12:32] Daniel: We never hung many photos up.
[1:12:34] Daniel: Like it just never, we never made it want to feel like home.
[1:12:36] Daniel: Because We never considered it could be home.
[1:12:39] Daniel: And so therefore, as a self-fulfilling prophecy, it never became home.
[1:12:43] Daniel: But I think in a different world, if we had done those things, for example, I found meaningful work you know, invested more long-term into the relationships that we had, right?
[1:12:52] Daniel: I think Korea five years later could have felt very, very different.
[1:12:55] Jun: Mm-hmm.
[1:12:55] Daniel: But I think, Because of these things, it, you know, never really felt like home.
[1:13:01] Daniel: Jun, I think the biggest thing for me, personally that I did not expect was...
[1:13:07] Daniel: Yeah, I think Korea really cured my again, I've called it like Asian male syndrome for me personally, but just this deep sense of like having low self-esteem.
[1:13:17] Daniel: Yeah, I don't think there's any reason I should have this, but I, I realized I really did.
[1:13:21] Daniel: I always carried a bit of a chip on my shoulder.
[1:13:24] Daniel: I felt like I was always like deeply bitter and angry, uh, about this in particular.
[1:13:29] Daniel: And yeah, I think just being in Korea, where I feel accepted, feel in the majority, Feel connected more to my ethnicity and culture and things like that yeah, much more than I expected.
[1:13:41] Daniel: I feel Like I've gotten over that a little bit.
[1:13:44] Daniel: So,
[1:13:46] 128_Finale_pt1: Okay.
[1:13:46] Daniel: Jun, just a couple more Yeah, so Korea also for me, because of the circumstances, I...
[1:13:54] Daniel: Yeah, I have not been working for the last two and a half years now.
[1:13:57] Daniel: And I think there was very few situations and circumstances in life where I could have done this, being as, like, guilt-free as I've been.
[1:14:08] Daniel: You know,'cause on the surface it's just like,"What job am I gonna get?
[1:14:12] Daniel: What language?
[1:14:12] Daniel: I can't speak the language." Like- I'm not gonna be here long term.
[1:14:15] Daniel: What's the point?" And so because of that, I've had this very precious and special, like, 2.5 years where I can just be present with my kids, read books leisurely,...like casual hobbies, exercise just like resting, right?
[1:14:32] Daniel: And recharging.
[1:14:33] Daniel: And I think, you know, putting all that striving And caring about career and status and all these things, right?
[1:14:39] Daniel: It's just what a blessing for me, and I'm deeply, deeply grateful for this time.
[1:14:44] Daniel: And yeah, I, I just could never have imagined doing this in the US.
[1:14:47] Daniel: Yeah.
[1:14:48] Daniel: Right?
[1:14:48] Daniel: There's no-
[1:14:49] Jun: Excuse.
[1:14:50] Daniel: Excuse.
[1:14:50] Daniel: I, have so...
[1:14:51] Daniel: Yeah.
[1:14:51] Daniel: There's no excuse for me to just, like, take time off.
[1:14:55] Daniel: But because of that, I think, yeah, I was really able to kinda, as, as, you know, cheesy and corny as that sounds, like, find myself, right?
[1:15:02] Daniel: And I'm such a different person now than I was when I, when I came here.
[1:15:07] Daniel: And I, I never expected this.
[1:15:09] Daniel: You know, this was nowhere on my radar.
[1:15:12] Daniel: It was all about my kids, their future, connection to the motherland, language immersion, broadening their perspectives.
[1:15:18] Daniel: But I never expected me to change so much.
[1:15:20] Daniel: Yeah.
[1:15:20] Daniel: And yeah, I think that was such an unexpected gift for me personally.
[1:15:24] 128_Finale_pt1: Mm.
[1:15:25] Daniel: And it's like one...
[1:15:27] Daniel: I, I hear this is common though for a lot of expats, not the rest part per se, but personal growth.
[1:15:34] Daniel: and it's because when you leave your home country and all your friends and connections, All the expectations and societal, Understanding and everything, you're just, like, kinda stripped bare.
[1:15:45] Daniel: And it's like a fresh start.
[1:15:46] Daniel: and I think in that way, Yeah, I really had a lot of time alone t- with myself.
[1:15:52] Daniel: And I really got to discover, like, what are my interests, what are my joys.
[1:15:56] 128_Finale_pt1: Wow.
[1:15:57] Daniel: There's one thing.
[1:15:58] Daniel: I, I came to this very clear res- you know, recognition and, You know, with ChatGPT, you know, talking back and forth.
[1:16:05] Daniel: But it was like, Jun, I realize my biggest fear right now as I'm, you know, 42 preparing to move back to the US, is that I will never achieve my full potential creatively.
[1:16:17] 128_Finale_pt1: Mm.
[1:16:18] Daniel: it's like
[1:16:20] Jun: Why, why?
[1:16:22] Daniel: I think I never even had any expectations of myself creatively.
[1:16:27] Daniel: Right?
[1:16:27] Daniel: I never had the time or space and, you know, coming up from an engineering background and in my, you know, family growing up and all these things, right?
[1:16:35] Daniel: It just felt like, well, that's my life.
[1:16:37] Daniel: And it wasn't a bad life, to be clear, but I, I, I really have so many creative ambitions that I wanna do, and I now feel like I actually have the ambition and actually drive to go and do some of them.
[1:16:51] Daniel: Mm-hmm.
[1:16:52] Daniel: You know, I think in the US, I- it would've probably taken me retirement.
[1:16:56] Daniel: I would've been like 65.
[1:16:58] Daniel: and then I would've started thinking about like, oh, like, maybe write a fiction book.
[1:17:03] Daniel: or you know, do a podcast or all these other things that I now want to do.
[1:17:09] Daniel: And yeah, I'm just, I'm just glad it happened earlier.
[1:17:11] Daniel: and I think I really credit Korea and the situation I've been in...for making that happen.
[1:17:16] 128_Finale_pt1: Mm-hmm.
[1:17:19] Daniel: Yeah.
[1:17:20] Jun: What, what are some of the biggest things that you think have, You think for you?
[1:17:30] Daniel: I think freedom to be who I am on my own.
[1:17:35] Daniel: Mm
[1:17:35] 128_Finale_pt1: Mm.
[1:17:35] 128_Finale_pt1: Does
[1:17:35] Jun: that make
[1:17:36] Daniel: sense?
[1:17:36] Daniel: Like, it's funny because, you know, everyone says Americans are so individualistic.
[1:17:42] Daniel: But at least for me personally I can recognize how I am much more individualistic than maybe your typical Korean.
[1:17:51] Daniel: But I also felt like maybe because of my, you know, Korean American...
[1:17:54] Daniel: the Korean influence, like, I never got to
[1:17:57] Jun: express
[1:17:57] Daniel: that or- make decisions based on that, which in a sense makes it even more frustrating.
[1:18:03] Daniel: Like, I know some of the things I wanna do, but I don't, feel empowered to actually
[1:18:08] Jun: Mm pursue them.
[1:18:09] Jun: Mm-hmm.
[1:18:10] Daniel: So I don't, I don't know.
[1:18:11] Daniel: It's like I haven't thought this through entirely.
[1:18:13] Daniel: But yeah, definitely, like, I feel like I got to know myself and can now prioritize myself because of this time here,
[1:18:22] 128_Finale_pt1: so Mm.
[1:18:23] 128_Finale_pt1: Yeah.
[1:18:24] Daniel: Jun, there's two things I wanna touch on very specifically.
[1:18:27] Daniel: Like, I...
[1:18:28] Daniel: these come up in my life all the time, and have really influenced how I think about things.
[1:18:33] Daniel: and I wanna credit them to you very directly.
[1:18:36] Daniel: The first is the, the Buddhist principle, I always forget the name
[1:18:41] Jun: I'm
[1:18:44] Daniel: I'm gonna call it Wonhyo's Skull- a very American accent.
[1:18:48] Daniel: But the idea that, like, whatever everything is from within, right?
[1:18:52] Daniel: So exact same circumstances on the surface can have a totally different interpretation or impact based on where you are personally, like your mind state, your perspective, right?
[1:19:04] Daniel: And yeah, it's just this comes up for me so often, and I recognize it now, right?
[1:19:08] Daniel: It's like,
[1:19:09] Jun: if I'm
[1:19:09] Daniel: in the mindset of, thinking negatively about Korea, everything that happens, it's like,"Oh, it's Korea sucks.
[1:19:15] Daniel: It's because of Korea." But if I'm in a mind state where I'm like happy about Korea,...I can like let it roll off my shoulders.
[1:19:21] Daniel: "Oh, it's not a Korea problem, It's an individual person problem." Or I can think of like all the good that comes with it, right?
[1:19:27] Daniel: In a more balanced way.
[1:19:29] Daniel: And yeah, I think that this is, I think brought me a lot more balance in my life and as you know, Jun, I'm a very turbulent, emotional person.
[1:19:36] Daniel: so I think this is a bit of a steadying force.
[1:19:39] Daniel: And then the second thing is, the analogy you bring up all the time around the Chinese beer makers.
[1:19:45] Jun: Mm-hmm.
[1:19:46] Jun: Right?
[1:19:46] Jun: Yeah.
[1:19:47] Daniel: It's like
[1:19:48] Jun: I realize now my
[1:19:49] Daniel: of Korean culture and how Korean Americans maybe generally think about Korean culture, it's like we're trying to hold onto this- time capsule of what Korean culture was.
[1:20:00] Daniel: Because we're not living in Korea,...we can't grow and adapt along with Korea.
[1:20:05] Daniel: And so for that reason, like we cling extra hard and can't, you know, modify or change or grow what we know of that culture.
[1:20:12] Daniel: And I think just the recognition of that, I just see it play out all the time now.
[1:20:17] Daniel: Which is when you aren't connected directly to the source, like your, your main goal is to preserve it.
[1:20:24] Daniel: Yeah.
[1:20:24] Jun: Not
[1:20:25] Daniel: to grow or change it.
[1:20:26] Daniel: And you know, I think there is something beautiful about that preservation.
[1:20:30] Daniel: But it's also limiting.
[1:20:31] Daniel: And, I think just recognizing again, the good and bad of
[1:20:33] Jun: that-
[1:20:34] 128_Finale_pt1: Mm-hmm
[1:20:34] Daniel: me has been a big game changer.
[1:20:37] Daniel: It's, you know, changed how I thought about Korean Americans and Korean culture- Korean Koreans and Korean culture.
[1:20:44] Daniel: right?
[1:20:44] Daniel: I think I was so bold when I first moved here to say, Man, Korean Americans are more Korean than Koreans," right?
[1:20:49] Daniel: I literally thought and said those
[1:20:51] 128_Finale_pt1: things.
[1:20:51] 128_Finale_pt1: Mm-hmm.
[1:20:52] Daniel: Which now I realize is like, you know, very ignorant and wrong in a lot of ways.
[1:20:57] Daniel: but also right
[1:20:58] Jun: in some ways.
[1:20:59] Jun: Yeah.
[1:20:59] Jun: I
[1:20:59] Daniel: Korean Americans hold onto that more traditional, older Korean culture more closely.
[1:21:05] Daniel: And so anyway, those are two things that I, I think about a lot,
[1:21:09] Jun: so.
[1:21:11] Jun: Well.
[1:21:13] Daniel: Mm-hmm.
[1:21:18] Daniel: How do I not be emotional?
[1:21:19] Daniel: I...
[1:21:20] Daniel: don't...
[1:21:20] Daniel: It's ridiculous.
[1:21:21] Daniel: Even just thinking about,
[1:21:23] Jun: Oh,
[1:21:24] Daniel: this is
[1:21:24] 128_Finale_pt2: this How do you
[1:21:29] Daniel: a T, Jun?
[1:21:34] Daniel: Oh okay.
[1:21:34] Daniel: Okay.
[1:21:36] Daniel: No, it's not gonna work.
[1:21:36] Daniel: It's I need to do something.
[1:21:39] 128_Finale_pt2: do something
[1:21:42] Daniel: Hey, everyone.
[1:21:43] Daniel: So for our podcast only or people listening, we have changed venues.
[1:21:51] Jun: And clothes
[1:21:52] Daniel: And clothes back to our original studio in Jun's apartment.
[1:21:56] Daniel: Because our Airbnb time checkout time
[1:22:00] Jun: was-
[1:22:00] Daniel: quickly approaching and we could not get extended-- get it extended.
[1:22:05] Daniel: However, Jun, walking over here- Mm-hmm...I had the thought- Mm-hmm is way more fitting.
[1:22:10] Daniel: I'm actually really glad that happened.
[1:22:13] Daniel: It's not a lucky vicky thing.
[1:22:14] Daniel: I'm just really glad it happened because walking over here, You might not know'cause you're just, you know, sitting here waiting.
[1:22:20] Daniel: But
[1:22:21] Jun: again,
[1:22:22] Daniel: know you're preparing and getting everything set up.
[1:22:23] Daniel: I'm not saying that.
[1:22:25] Daniel: But yeah, walking over here for the last time,
[1:22:27] Jun: definitely
[1:22:28] Daniel: getting a little emotional and sentimental.
[1:22:30] Daniel: And it just feels fitting that we end our last episode in the place where it all started.
[1:22:36] Daniel: Mm-hmm.
[1:22:36] Daniel: So yeah, I'm actually quite g-glad that that worked out, and it is Lucky vicky.
[1:22:40] Jun: Lucky vicky.
[1:22:44] Daniel: I really don't know how, how people
[1:22:45] 128_Finale_pt2: can do it if they're emotional, but they have to,
[1:22:47] Daniel: to be professional.
[1:22:48] 128_Finale_pt2: I don't understand.
[1:22:52] Daniel: Yeah, just warning people.
[1:22:54] Daniel: I'm in a very emotional state overall, of course.
[1:22:58] Daniel: I'm an emotional person and this is a very emotional moment, however.
[1:23:03] Daniel: Yeah, just bear with me.
[1:23:10] 128_Finale_pt2: I,
[1:23:10] Jun: I real-
[1:23:10] Daniel: I really don't know how emotional people can be professional and keep it together Jun, how should I be a tea?
[1:23:22] Jun: Hmm.
[1:23:22] Jun: You just have to be born as a T.
[1:23:24] Jun: Oh, There has to be a way.
[1:23:29] Daniel: No, that's not Jun, beyond the location,
[1:23:31] 128_Finale_pt2: Mm-hmm
[1:23:32] Daniel: I have to be honest, I'm glad that we are having this final moment because, I kinda hated the last hour and a half of recording.
[1:23:40] Jun: Oh.
[1:23:40] Jun: You said it was too shallow, right?
[1:23:43] Daniel: You said it was too shallow.
[1:23:43] Daniel: Yeah, I don't, I don't...
[1:23:44] Daniel: Okay, maybe hate is a strong word, but that is how I feel.
[1:23:47] Daniel: Like- Yeah
[1:23:48] Jun: it,
[1:23:49] 128_Finale_pt2: it, and
[1:23:49] Daniel: it's, it's not that it was shallow.
[1:23:50] Jun: Mm-hmm
[1:23:51] Daniel: it's, just that it was completely devoid of emotion.
[1:23:54] Daniel: Yeah.
[1:23:54] Daniel: It was just like...
[1:23:56] 128_Finale_pt2: it was,
[1:23:56] Daniel: you know, I had prepared here and there over the last few weeks trying to put together my thoughts and notes.
[1:24:02] Daniel: and then I was kind of reading it, and so it just felt, yeah, very shallow, unemotional scripted, because it was.
[1:24:10] Daniel: Mm-hmm.
[1:24:11] Daniel: And quite frankly, like, just such a far departure from, I think literally every, every other episode on our
[1:24:17] 128_Finale_pt2: podcast.
[1:24:17] 128_Finale_pt2: Mm-hmm.
[1:24:18] Daniel: So yeah, for that reason too, I think it was good to...
[1:24:22] Daniel: Maybe we'll still release it and include it, but good to take a reset and be able to have one last shot at ending this And- yeah, landing the plane how, in a way that I think is, you know, meaningful and worthy, so,
[1:24:36] Jun: Mm-hmm.
[1:24:39] Jun: I also thought it was kind of...
[1:24:42] Jun: It was a bit of surprise to me- you prepared it that way.
[1:24:48] Jun: Yeah.
[1:24:49] Jun: Yeah.
[1:24:49] Jun: S- But I thought...
[1:24:52] Jun: In, in some way I thought it was intentional-...because you didn't want to be too emotional for the final episode.
[1:25:02] Jun: But I think this is more fitting.
[1:25:04] Jun: Yeah.
[1:25:04] Jun: Yeah.
[1:25:05] Jun: It was
[1:25:06] Daniel: not intentional.
[1:25:07] Daniel: I think just what happens when I, I guess I have, like, some task I'm trying to get
[1:25:13] Jun: through.
[1:25:13] Jun: Mm-hmm.
[1:25:14] Daniel: and...
[1:25:16] Daniel: yeah, is there, is there a term in Korea called, like, work voice or, like, work person?
[1:25:23] 128_Finale_pt2: Mm.
[1:25:23] Jun: Oh, definitely there is,
[1:25:24] Daniel: a persona, right?
[1:25:25] Daniel: Like work
[1:25:25] Jun: Jun.
[1:25:26] Jun: 직장인 mode.
[1:25:28] Daniel: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[1:25:29] Daniel: So work mode.
[1:25:30] Daniel: Is that a term though in Korean?
[1:25:31] Daniel: Yeah.
[1:25:32] Daniel: Yeah, yeah.
[1:25:32] Daniel: So that's definitely what
[1:25:34] Jun: it
[1:25:34] Daniel: like putting that list together.
[1:25:36] Daniel: And in the sense, yeah, no, you know, no list could, do my time here in Korea justice.
[1:25:46] Daniel: So yeah, I...
[1:25:47] Daniel: Again, we'll...
[1:25:48] Daniel: I don't know if we'll include it or not, but it, I would, I for one would be happy for...
[1:25:52] Daniel: I would be fine if we just kinda threw it out, although that'd be kind of a waste.
[1:25:56] Daniel: Jun, this is not working, okay?
[1:25:58] Daniel: I need, I need to, I need to take a pause.
[1:26:01] Daniel: Yeah.
[1:26:01] Daniel: Was there anything else you wanted to get out or say before we were able to-......to- land the plane here?
[1:26:07] Jun: I had some thoughts here and there that was scattered and wasn't really merging together.
[1:26:15] Jun: Mm-hmm.
[1:26:15] Jun: But then this one-day buffer gave me an opportunity to actually write it down in a more comprehensive way.
[1:26:24] 128_Finale_pt2: Mm-hmm.
[1:26:26] Jun: Do you want me to read it?
[1:26:27] Daniel: Yeah, why don't you
[1:26:27] Jun: go?
[1:26:28] Jun: Okay.
[1:26:30] 128_Finale_pt2: Yeah.
[1:26:30] Jun: This is what we're doing for this recording, right?
[1:26:33] Jun: Yeah.
[1:26:33] Jun: Final reflections.
[1:26:34] Jun: Okay.
[1:26:35] Jun: Final reflections.
[1:26:39] Jun: Over the last two and a half years, across nearly 130 episode of the Korean American podcast, we set out with a pretty ambitious goal, to bridge the gap between cultures.
[1:26:53] Jun: We wanted to dig into the root cause of why we do things we do, and hopefully carve out a little more empathy in the world.
[1:27:02] 128_Finale_pt2: We've
[1:27:02] Jun: covered a lot of ground, some topics grand and sweeping, others just tiny everyday details.
[1:27:10] Jun: But looking back at the sheer volume of hours we've spent talking, I think the most meaningful takeaway for me hasn't been just decoding cultural phenomena.
[1:27:20] Jun: It's been my growth in my relationship with my co-host.
[1:27:26] Jun: What started as an exploration of a different culture quickly morphed into my own personal quest to simply understand another human being.
[1:27:37] Jun: In Korea, we have this concept of referring to people as vessels, gereut.
[1:27:44] Jun: It des- it describes a person's capacity to accommodate others.
[1:27:48] Jun: If someone is narrow-minded or quick to judge, we say their vessel is small, AKA gereut-i If they are generous, open, and deeply understanding, their vessel is large, gereut-i keuda.
[1:28:03] Jun: Doing this podcast with Daniel has been a relentless process of constantly breaking my vessel to widen it.
[1:28:10] Jun: And let me tell you, much like a chick fur- furiously pecking its way out of an eggshell, it was alway- it wasn't always a smooth or graceful process.
[1:28:21] Jun: It was frustrating at times.
[1:28:23] Jun: It involved constant exhausting questioning.
[1:28:26] Jun: But nevertheless, as painful as growing pains can be, I sit here today as a noticeably bigger vessel than I was when we first hit record We often talk about understanding others as if it's a warm, natural thing that just happens if you smile enough I wanna take this chance to say out loud, It isn't.
[1:28:52] Jun: it is not always easy.
[1:28:53] Jun: It takes massive effort, endurance, and above all, trust to finally get there Coming from a highly homogenous collective society, we Koreans sometimes struggle to grasp just how wildly diff- wildly different people's perceptions of the world can be.
[1:29:11] Jun: That blind spot can breed intolerance, not just towards foreign cultures, but right here among ourselves.
[1:29:19] Jun: But if there's a single defining truth I've internalized from all of our recordings, it's this: everyone is trying their best in their respective circumstances As this is officially the last episode of the podcast, I have to admit I'm dealing with a lot of profound dis- disappointment, mainly because I will no longer be the guy that does a but in all seriousness, I wanna thank my co-host, my former boss, my hyung, and most importantly, my true Jung base friend,
[1:29:57] 128_Finale_pt2: Daniel.
[1:29:59] Jun: Thank you for creating this opportunity and for being the catalyst that expanded my vessel Finally, to our listeners all around the world, thank you for coming along this journey.
[1:30:13] Jun: you for laughing with us, crying with us, and trying to understand the endless complicated facets of the world alongside us, Your willingness to listen has made this world just a little bit more empathetic If our 130 episodes managed to put even the slightest crack in your vessel, forcing to break and grow just a little bit wider, I consider our mission accomplished.
[1:30:39] Jun: Thank you
[1:30:44] 128_Finale_pt2: Is
[1:30:44] Daniel: Was that a bit of emotion there, Jun?
[1:30:50] Daniel: That was beautiful.
[1:30:52] Daniel: I think we need to end it.
[1:30:55] Daniel: Or definitely have that go last.
[1:30:57] Jun: last Hmm?
[1:30:58] Jun: I
[1:30:58] Daniel: we definitely have to have that go last.
[1:31:01] Daniel: too good.
[1:31:01] Daniel: Yeah.
[1:31:03] Daniel: Very poetic.
[1:31:08] Daniel: Jun also,
[1:31:09] Jun: Mm-hmm
[1:31:10] Daniel: right before I was getting ready to leave to come over here you know, I've been in a very emotional, sentimental state, but I also say these kinds of things to my, my kids all the time.
[1:31:22] Daniel: I'm like,"Guys, you know, Daddy's sad that we're leaving Korea.
[1:31:25] Daniel: I want you to know that.
[1:31:27] Daniel: I'm also very excited that, we're moving back to America." And, and it's, it's normal to feel both.
[1:31:40] Daniel: And my my, third, she said,"Dad,
[1:31:46] 128_Finale_pt2: yeah,
[1:31:46] Daniel: it's just like a party except when it's your final party." And I think, you know, we just had hosted a farewell party for her and her first grade classmates.
[1:31:58] Daniel: but again, it it was just such a perfect analogy, right?
[1:32:05] Daniel: Yeah.
[1:32:06] Daniel: You know, this episode, Being our final one, it's just like Another episode, but it's our final episode.
[1:32:17] Daniel: And so it's both incredibly happy and incredibly sad at the same time.
[1:32:25] Daniel: So I think Jun, with that said, I think, yeah, I just have a few final words I'll share Jun,
[1:32:39] Jun: Hmm.
[1:32:40] Daniel: I know you think ddong may no longer be a thing
[1:32:42] 128_Finale_pt2: in this
[1:32:43] Daniel: but I just...
[1:32:45] Jun: I can't Sorry.
[1:32:47] Jun: Once I read it, I think it'll be fast, but there has to be a way to say
[1:32:49] 128_Finale_pt2: to wait to Oh
[1:32:58] Daniel: I just Like read it 10 times in a row, then it won't, it will stop being emotional Jun, I know you think Jeong may no longer be a thing in this country, but I disagree Let me take advantage of the ambiguity of the term to use it in my own way.
[1:33:25] Daniel: I've received so much Jung during my time here.
[1:33:28] Daniel: From the kind lady at the kiosk who makes my coffee with just a half pump of hazelnut syrup every day since I asked her to customize it for me that first time, not realizing how gichana that was of me, or gichana that would be of, for her.
[1:33:45] Daniel: Or the owner of the Korean Chinese restaurant near our home, who shares her homemade chigae with us when we visit and sends us off with extra lettuce to take home with us every time we visit because we asked her one time to wrap up the leftovers so we could take it home to feed our turtle." Or the owner of the local burger store, whom after a very, very hard day alone with the kids, helped me to put on their coats Put on, put on their coats before leaving her store and offered encouraging words she didn't know I needed Or the Korean American neighbors we met with college-aged children that moved in right next door to us who take every opportunity to greet us warmly and treat us to meals when they're able to
[1:34:45] Jun: sure
[1:34:45] Daniel: don't know how much it means to us to have just one family like that living nearby And from the neighborhood moms that always treat our kids like their own Or to the church group that welcomed us in, knowing that sooner than later, and actually very shortly, we'd be leaving.
[1:35:13] Daniel: To our closest friends, you know who you are.
[1:35:17] Daniel: Your presence in our life has been such a blessing.
[1:35:21] Daniel: But in a sense, I don't feel much need to share that here because I know you guys will be a Kakao message away And of course, to our listeners who may not realize that through your comments, messages, and even quiet support, it has meant so much to me over the years.
[1:35:41] Daniel: I am always deeply moved and blown away by the insights you have shared and the supportive messages you have sent And of course to you, Jun, who went from stranger to coworker to co-host, and now someone I consider a friend for life I still remember one of our earliest conversations at work where you helped me to break down a problem I was facing in a new way.
[1:36:07] Daniel: The way you, you were able to quickly and simply dissect the issue, help me sort out my own thoughts, and gently guide me towards a solution was quite frankly amazing And this is something you've continued to do for me and our audience through this podcast.
[1:36:24] Daniel: When I listen to previous episodes, I frequently cringe so many times at the things I've said.
[1:36:31] Daniel: I am not sure how you managed to not cringe, or maybe you did and you just kept it in
[1:36:40] Jun: Jun,
[1:36:41] Daniel: without you there would be no Korean dot American dot podcast.
[1:36:48] Daniel: For the record, we are not the Korean dash American podcast.
[1:36:53] Daniel: Again, one Korean, one American, one topic weekly You have been the patient, understanding, and insightful steady rock and the engine that keeps this podcast moving forward even when it wasn't easy.
[1:37:12] Daniel: As you said many times, we live very different lives and yet each week we come together to talk and hopefully arrive at a place of better and mutual
[1:37:22] 128_Finale_pt2: understanding,
[1:37:24] Daniel: and I think we have.
[1:37:27] Daniel: in many ways, this podcast has been a reflection of myself and my time and experience here in Korea.
[1:37:32] Daniel: It's been hard, but it's been so incredibly worth it.
[1:37:36] Daniel: I leave Korea a totally different person than when I entered.
[1:37:41] Daniel: I wanted to start this podcast becau- because I could feel my perspective changing and I wanted to share that with the world.
[1:37:48] Daniel: To that I can safely say mission accomplished.
[1:37:52] Daniel: I moved to Korea with the intention of helping my children feel a connection to their motherland that I never did and to be proud of their Korean identity moving forward.
[1:38:05] Daniel: Only time will tell and it's still too early to know, but I can confidently say we've grown closer as a family, made incredible memories, and that I'm so proud of who my kids are becoming and in fact who they already are This goes not only to my kids, but to my wife.
[1:38:26] Daniel: This season has challenged us, but we are emerging stronger for it and I love you.
[1:38:33] Daniel: Korea today has over 2.7 million foreigners, a number I only expect to keep on going up.
[1:38:41] Daniel: But it isn't just Korea that's changing.
[1:38:44] Daniel: America may be known as the great melting pot, But I think it's inevitable that the entire world will become more integrated and less homogenous moving forward For the people moving here, be open and be humble.
[1:39:02] Daniel: Things may seem wrong to you, but please don't be so quick to judge Korea is not perfect.
[1:39:09] Daniel: No country is.
[1:39:11] Daniel: But it is full of imperfect people just trying their best, just like everywhere else Rather than label something as right or wrong, I've learned it's best to simply see things as different.
[1:39:27] Daniel: And I think if you try to seek out what that difference is, you will not only more deeply learn and appreciate the Korean culture, but also your own I know this has been my experience And even though this podcast may be ending, I know my own personal journey of trying to better understand myself and others will never end.
[1:39:54] Daniel: And that is my hope for our listeners too.
[1:39:57] Daniel: Thank you
[1:40:04] Jun: Oh,
[1:40:06] 128_Finale_pt2: Okay
[1:40:06] Jun: Okay
[1:40:12] Daniel: Jun, I, was-- I I think I shared this with you.
[1:40:15] Daniel: know, some of these people I mentioned I also want to write them just a handwritten letter, give them some tteok.
[1:40:21] Daniel: I heard tteok might be a good neutral but meaningful gift.
[1:40:25] Jun: tteok Usually it's a hello gift.
[1:40:29] Jun: hello gift.
[1:40:30] Jun: Yeah.
[1:40:30] Jun: But- Not a farewell
[1:40:33] Daniel: The Korean...
[1:40:34] Daniel: Maybe they're more Korean American than I thought.
[1:40:36] Daniel: People I was assessing with never mentioned that.
[1:40:41] 128_Finale_pt2: that.
[1:40:42] Daniel: But yeah, I'll just stick with maybe a nice tteok.
[1:40:45] Daniel: But, Anyway, I was trying to write a quick note to them, and then I was translating it, and you know, I end my letters like,"Best, comma, Daniel."
[1:40:54] Jun: Mm-hmm.
[1:40:56] 128_Finale_pt2: And then
[1:40:56] Daniel: Google Translator or whatever said like,"최고의
[1:40:59] Jun: 최고의 Daniel." Which means, I think it's
[1:41:03] Daniel: Daniel is the best."
[1:41:04] Jun: Yeah.
[1:41:05] Jun: The best Daniel.
[1:41:06] Jun: The best
[1:41:06] Daniel: The best Daniel.
[1:41:10] Daniel: But I came to realize I don't think Koreans have an outro greeting.
[1:41:14] Daniel: Mm.
[1:41:15] Jun: Mm.
[1:41:16] Daniel: Like best, thanks,
[1:41:18] Jun: 감사합니다.
[1:41:18] Jun: Bye, love, right?
[1:41:20] Jun: Mm-hmm.
[1:41:20] Daniel: So how do Koreans end letters?
[1:41:25] Jun: You just
[1:41:25] Daniel: do a dash or oh, so
[1:41:27] Jun: Usually 감사합니다 Then Daniel 올림
[1:41:32] Daniel: Oh, okay.
[1:41:34] Daniel: So we can say that
[1:41:38] Jun: 드림.
[1:41:39] 128_Finale_pt2: What's
[1:41:40] Daniel: The plural of urim?
[1:41:41] Jun: 드림 like to give.
[1:41:45] Jun: Dream Should
[1:41:45] Daniel: try that then?
[1:41:47] Daniel: All right
[1:41:50] Jun: 감사합니다.
[1:41:52] Jun: Korean American Podcast Dream 太 奇 邪 了。 嗯。
[1:41:59] Daniel: Two Dream.
[1:41:59] Daniel: Too cheesy, I don't-
[1:42:00] 128_Finale_pt2: Mm-hmm

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