# The Girlfriends: Spotlight, E19: Lejla Fights for the Invisible

An episode of [The Girlfriends: Flight or Fight](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1695875823), 23 Mar 2026, 40 min.

Audio: https://podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/c2c81cb2-988e-4194-8382-b02e011bf37a/a8b02986-a7bf-4500-b127-b3e700fcf7b7/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=289822ba-519c-4151-be1f-b02e011e1914

Christmas Day, 1992. Sarajevo, Bosnia. War is ranging - Serb forces surround the city. For nearly four years, its people have endured daily shelling and sniper attacks, cut off from the rest of the world in the longest siege of a capital city in modern warfare. More than 11,000 people were killed. 1600 of them were children. And in the main hospital, a baby is born: Lejla Damon. Her mother didn’t want anything to do with her - if she held her, she said, she would strangle her. Lejla was born of sexual violence used as a weapon of war. Her birth mother had been raped, repeatedly, by Serb soldiers in a concentration camp. And Lejla was just too closely linked to her attackers for her to bear. Lejla was adopted by a British couple, and grew up in London. She felt alone in her earliest life experiences. But in adulthood, she’s found her Bosnian identity, and become an advocate for the countless other ‘invisible’ children around the world born of sexual violence used as a weapon of war. The Girlfriends: Spotlight is produced by Novel for iHeartPodcasts. For more from Novel visit novel.audio See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:01] Speaker 1: Novel.
[0:06] Speaker 2: Before we dive in, I wanted to give you a
[0:08] Speaker 2: quick note that today's episode includes discussions of sexual violence.
[0:13] Speaker 1: We don't want to catch anyone off guard.
[0:16] Speaker 2: That said, there's also so much beauty in this story,
[0:19] Speaker 2: moments where women from completely different worlds find connection. Those
[0:24] Speaker 2: parts honestly gave me goosebumps. But I want you to
[0:27] Speaker 2: take care of yourself first. If this topic isn't right
[0:30] Speaker 2: for you today, we totally understand. Our feed is full
[0:33] Speaker 2: of other stories waiting for your ears.
[0:37] Speaker 3: It was boiling hot summer day in August, like hot.
[0:42] Speaker 3: We were outside at a table and I remember kind
[0:45] Speaker 3: of being sat there. I was wearing a blue dress
[0:48] Speaker 3: and we were just sat there having coffee.
[0:50] Speaker 2: There's one type of story that I don't think gets
[0:52] Speaker 2: enough airtime, and that's the friendship meet cute. The unusual
[0:57] Speaker 2: chance encounter is someone that makes you go, oh, oh,
[1:00] Speaker 2: I want to be your friend so bad. It's hard
[1:03] Speaker 2: making friends as an adult, but those friendships can end
[1:06] Speaker 2: up being as much of a sole connection as any
[1:09] Speaker 2: romantic love.
[1:11] Speaker 3: Just right from the beginning got on like so close.
[1:16] Speaker 4: You know.
[1:17] Speaker 2: Leila has lots of friends, great friends, but their ability
[1:21] Speaker 2: to truly understand her life always comes to an abrupt
[1:24] Speaker 2: halt when she tells them where she came from. You see,
[1:30] Speaker 2: Laila's life began during the Bosnian War, in circumstances most
[1:35] Speaker 2: of us can barely comprehend. For years, she's carried the
[1:38] Speaker 2: weight of an identity that she felt no one could understand.
[1:44] Speaker 3: For a really long time. I was very isolated from
[1:46] Speaker 3: that point of view. You have an understanding of your identity,
[1:50] Speaker 3: but you're not sure how you feel about your identity
[1:53] Speaker 3: is fundamentally the challenge until one summer's.
[1:57] Speaker 1: Day in Bosnia, when Leila met a khindred spirit.
[2:02] Speaker 3: She shared her story. I shared mine like it is
[2:05] Speaker 3: truly amazing. It was nice to be able to explore
[2:09] Speaker 3: all the different emotions with someone else that has also
[2:11] Speaker 3: experienced those emotions.
[2:14] Speaker 2: This is a story about how being seen by a friend,
[2:17] Speaker 2: someone who truly gets it, can completely change your life.
[2:22] Speaker 2: That's what happened for Leyla and Aina. They recognized each
[2:26] Speaker 2: other in a way that no one else could, and
[2:28] Speaker 2: in doing so, Ana helps Leila come face to face
[2:32] Speaker 2: with her Bosnian roots and gives her a homecoming she
[2:35] Speaker 2: could never have imagined. I'm anisonfield and from the teams
[2:47] Speaker 2: at Novel and iHeart Podcasts. This is the Girlfriend's Spotlight,
[2:52] Speaker 2: where we tell stories of women women Today, Layla becomes visible.
[3:19] Speaker 2: Laila Damon was in the spotlight from day one. Leila
[3:22] Speaker 2: was born in the Bosnian capital Sarajevo in nineteen ninety two.
[3:27] Speaker 2: It was a city under siege. The Bosnian War was
[3:30] Speaker 2: raging and Serb forces surrounded Sarajevo for nearly four years.
[3:35] Speaker 2: Its people endured daily shelling and sniper attacks. Cut off
[3:39] Speaker 2: from the rest of the world. The violence was so
[3:42] Speaker 2: horrific that it's hard to even imagine. More than eleven
[3:46] Speaker 2: thousand people were killed, one thousand and six hundred of
[3:50] Speaker 2: them were children.
[3:52] Speaker 3: I was born on Christmas Day in nineteen ninety two
[3:55] Speaker 3: in the main hospital in Sarajevo, Bosnia, the maternity Hospit
[4:00] Speaker 3: was bombed fairly early on during the war, and my
[4:04] Speaker 3: biological mother had experienced sexual violence in the lead up
[4:09] Speaker 3: to my birth, so I was a child born out
[4:12] Speaker 3: of sexual violence, and she had experienced sexual violence throughout
[4:15] Speaker 3: her pregnancy until she was so heavily pregnant that they
[4:20] Speaker 3: let her go. By this point, ultimately, sexual violence was
[4:24] Speaker 3: being used as a weapon of war in Bosnia, and
[4:27] Speaker 3: that was a tactic of the army to dehumanize and
[4:32] Speaker 3: humiliate the civilian population, as well as creating this kind
[4:37] Speaker 3: of next generation of children born out of stigma.
[4:41] Speaker 2: Sexual violence as a weapon of war was used systematically
[4:45] Speaker 2: as a tool of genocide during the Bosnian War. Lela's
[4:48] Speaker 2: birth mother, a Bosnian Muslim, was held in a concentration
[4:52] Speaker 2: camp by the Serb army and repeatedly raped by soldiers.
[4:57] Speaker 2: Around this time, word of Sarajevo's devastate situation was breaking
[5:01] Speaker 2: through to the rest of the world, and this is
[5:04] Speaker 2: where another crucial part of Layla's story unfolds. A husband
[5:08] Speaker 2: and wife journalist you I had made their way into
[5:10] Speaker 2: the city. They were covering the conflict for Sky News,
[5:14] Speaker 2: documenting what happened on the ground.
[5:17] Speaker 3: So they'd been in Bosnia pretty much the whole time
[5:21] Speaker 3: since the war broke out. Their fixer had come across
[5:24] Speaker 3: my story as a child born on Christmas Day. Them
[5:27] Speaker 3: being journalists, this was a story, and they went to
[5:31] Speaker 3: the hospital where I was born to interview my biological
[5:35] Speaker 3: mother and understand her story. They wanted to raise the
[5:39] Speaker 3: awareness around the sexual violence that had been occurring in Bosnia,
[5:43] Speaker 3: but also now this second element of a generation being
[5:47] Speaker 3: born out of sexual violence. They interviewed my biological mother
[5:52] Speaker 3: and they heard what she had to say, which was
[5:54] Speaker 3: ultimately that I would very much, in her eyes, grow
[5:58] Speaker 3: up to be like the men that committed that sexual
[6:01] Speaker 3: violence towards her and her very extreme feelings towards me,
[6:07] Speaker 3: which was ultimately that she didn't want anything to do
[6:10] Speaker 3: with me. You know, if she held me, that she
[6:13] Speaker 3: had strangled me.
[6:15] Speaker 2: Layla, the baby born on Christmas Day, was destined for
[6:18] Speaker 2: an orphanage.
[6:20] Speaker 3: Then, being journalists, they'd documented the orphanages and how little
[6:24] Speaker 3: they had to go and live on burning furniture to
[6:28] Speaker 3: keep warm and so on. They knew what my outcome
[6:31] Speaker 3: would be, and they ultimately wanted to make a difference
[6:35] Speaker 3: and make a change. They then came back and asked
[6:39] Speaker 3: for my biological mother's consent in adopting me, and then
[6:43] Speaker 3: they started the process of smuggling me out of Bosnia.
[6:47] Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I can imagine kind of being that
[6:51] Speaker 2: close to the reporting and then having this very real
[6:54] Speaker 2: case in front of you, of like this is about
[6:56] Speaker 2: to happen to this. Yeah, you just feel like your
[6:59] Speaker 2: hands were Yeah, I can't imagine walking out of that
[7:02] Speaker 2: hospital without you in my arms. Yeah, Laila's adoptive parents,
[7:07] Speaker 2: the journalist she now simply calls her parents smuggled her
[7:10] Speaker 2: first to Hungry and then to the UK, and that's
[7:13] Speaker 2: where they made the adoption official. Laila went on to
[7:17] Speaker 2: spend her childhood in North London, which is an area
[7:20] Speaker 2: that I also know pretty well.
[7:22] Speaker 3: So I grew up literally you know where the reservoir
[7:26] Speaker 3: is and the happening bagel wow, Like.
[7:30] Speaker 1: Oh my god, love that bagel place.
[7:34] Speaker 3: Four hours like it's literally opening till twelve, like you know.
[7:37] Speaker 3: It was one of those things that when my parents
[7:39] Speaker 3: used to drop me off at school, they get me
[7:41] Speaker 3: in bagel. And then as I got older and I
[7:42] Speaker 3: used to go out in Camden, then I'd get a
[7:45] Speaker 3: bagel on the way home after a night out.
[7:47] Speaker 2: It was just happy days, the best feelings, that bagel.
[7:51] Speaker 1: My god.
[7:55] Speaker 2: As a kid, Layla didn't know about her origins, but
[7:59] Speaker 2: looking back, there was the clue in her name.
[8:01] Speaker 1: It's spelled in the Bosnian way l.
[8:04] Speaker 3: E j l A. When you grew up in the UK,
[8:09] Speaker 3: everyone in North London callsed me Ledgla. Everyone Ledgla that's it,
[8:16] Speaker 3: and you can always know when your name's coming in
[8:19] Speaker 3: the register. Someone will pause before they start trying to
[8:22] Speaker 3: announce it. At the time, I wasn't absolutely I didn't
[8:27] Speaker 3: love it.
[8:28] Speaker 2: It wasn't until Layla turned seven that she started to
[8:31] Speaker 2: ask questions.
[8:32] Speaker 3: I particularly remember it because in school we were in it.
[8:37] Speaker 3: You know how you can go back where the time
[8:39] Speaker 3: is on the bottom right hand side of your computer.
[8:42] Speaker 3: You can scroll back to like the calendar and see
[8:47] Speaker 3: what day you were born on. So I can scroll
[8:49] Speaker 3: way back to nineteen ninety two. And that's when I
[8:51] Speaker 3: found out that I was born on a Friday. And
[8:53] Speaker 3: I would distinctly remember the other kids talking about what
[8:56] Speaker 3: time they were born and all of those kinds of
[8:59] Speaker 3: things that their parents may have told them. And that
[9:02] Speaker 3: day I went home and asked my mum, you know
[9:05] Speaker 3: what time was I born? I was born on a Friday,
[9:09] Speaker 3: all of these kinds a little bit, and that was
[9:12] Speaker 3: when she kind of sat me down and said, you're adopted.
[9:16] Speaker 3: Your biological mother couldn't look after you because there was
[9:20] Speaker 3: a war going on. I do remember distinctly.
[9:24] Speaker 4: It like.
[9:27] Speaker 3: You feel different visually. I'd never heard of Bosnia. Secondly,
[9:31] Speaker 3: I had to go into school the next day and
[9:33] Speaker 3: say that I was adopted. At school, there's that kind
[9:37] Speaker 3: of pang of just wanting to fit in. So finding
[9:41] Speaker 3: out this information was sometimes I'm not sure what the
[9:46] Speaker 3: I don't think there's any best way or best time
[9:50] Speaker 3: or anything like that. But looking back, it was the
[9:54] Speaker 3: appropriate time and the best way.
[9:57] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[9:58] Speaker 2: For years, Leila owned she knew the simple version of
[10:01] Speaker 2: how she came into this world, that there was a war,
[10:05] Speaker 2: her mother couldn't raise her, and she was adopted. But
[10:09] Speaker 2: everything changed when she turned eighteen. Her parents felt it
[10:12] Speaker 2: was finally time for her to know her whole story.
[10:16] Speaker 2: So one day they gathered in a living room for
[10:19] Speaker 2: a conversation that would completely reshape her understanding of who
[10:23] Speaker 2: she was.
[10:24] Speaker 3: And I remember both my parents sat opposite on the
[10:27] Speaker 3: other side, so there were two sofas parallel to each other.
[10:30] Speaker 3: I was on one, they were on the other, tall ceilings,
[10:33] Speaker 3: blue sofas, really wide. And then they had this almost
[10:39] Speaker 3: file of papers and they said, you know, we've got
[10:43] Speaker 3: these documents. These are from your adoption process here in
[10:47] Speaker 3: the UK. Your biological mother experienced sexual violence and that's
[10:51] Speaker 3: how you were born.
[10:52] Speaker 2: But finding that out must have been really I imagine
[10:57] Speaker 2: it was really destabilizing.
[10:58] Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I'll be honest, teenage years anyway I
[11:02] Speaker 3: would take horrendously challenging and just so awkward. The crippling
[11:08] Speaker 3: desire to fit in is also painful. The biggest way ever,
[11:15] Speaker 3: then finding this element out it was a challenge. You know,
[11:19] Speaker 3: I had great friends, I've always had great friends, but
[11:23] Speaker 3: they don't have this kind of war background, and so
[11:29] Speaker 3: it's that interesting dynamic of really trying to grow up
[11:33] Speaker 3: and fit in desperately, but also then finding out more
[11:37] Speaker 3: about yourself that puts you really further away from your
[11:41] Speaker 3: pier set.
[11:42] Speaker 2: The bombshell truth about her origins hit Laila pretty hard,
[11:47] Speaker 2: suddenly questioning everything about herself, an eager for answers, so
[11:52] Speaker 2: she did what many of us would do, She googled it.
[11:57] Speaker 3: There was not much at all at that There was
[12:01] Speaker 3: some information on children born out of sexual violence post
[12:05] Speaker 3: World War two, so you could read some testimonies and
[12:09] Speaker 3: things like that, but if you typed in children born
[12:11] Speaker 3: out of sexual violence of the Bosnian War, there was
[12:15] Speaker 3: maybe on one research paper. It was noted, but marginally
[12:20] Speaker 3: so therefore, for a long time, I think the challenge
[12:25] Speaker 3: was that sense of belonging. I was like, there is
[12:28] Speaker 3: genuinely no one really I can talk to about? You know,
[12:31] Speaker 3: is badness hereditary? Is there something about me? Do I
[12:36] Speaker 3: need to how do I? Yeah? Like there was just
[12:39] Speaker 3: no and everyone's like a bit like, you know, don't
[12:43] Speaker 3: know what to say. Let my friends at ace, right,
[12:45] Speaker 3: but what are they supposed to say? For a really
[12:48] Speaker 3: long time, I was very isolated from that point of view.
[12:56] Speaker 2: With all these questions swirling in her mind. Where do
[13:00] Speaker 2: I fit in?
[13:01] Speaker 1: Who am I?
[13:03] Speaker 2: She felt alone and invisible, like she was the only
[13:07] Speaker 2: person in this world who was born this way. After
[13:13] Speaker 2: the break, Layla searches for others who might understand her
[13:17] Speaker 2: unique background, a journey that eventually leads her all the
[13:21] Speaker 2: way back to Bosnia.
[13:30] Speaker 3: Glad you have got you? Got You? I got you.
[13:38] Speaker 2: Nineteen year old Laila is in the middle of an
[13:40] Speaker 2: identity crisis, having just found out the devastating full story
[13:44] Speaker 2: of her birth, on top of the usual pangs of
[13:48] Speaker 2: teenage angst and insecurities. It would be a lot for
[13:51] Speaker 2: most people to handle, but Layla is resourceful and resilient,
[13:56] Speaker 2: and she's determined to find some answers.
[14:00] Speaker 3: I basically try to find enngios that worked in Bosnia
[14:03] Speaker 3: during the Bosnian War, and then it really whether it's
[14:06] Speaker 3: like you believe in signs or these things. There was
[14:09] Speaker 3: a post where they were looking for volunteers. The only
[14:13] Speaker 3: experience that you needed was to either be first generation
[14:17] Speaker 3: or second generation youth between the ages of eighteen to
[14:20] Speaker 3: twenty five with some related conflict background. No. I was like, wow,
[14:26] Speaker 3: this is perfect because again going back to that sense
[14:29] Speaker 3: of belonging, had great friends, but didn't have anywhere I
[14:34] Speaker 3: could kind of talk about war or explore this. This
[14:39] Speaker 3: was the first time in which I met other young
[14:43] Speaker 3: people that had a conflict related background. You know, I
[14:47] Speaker 3: could relate. There were synergies, but also you can talk
[14:50] Speaker 3: about things that are hard topics without people being like
[14:54] Speaker 3: this isn't really my area.
[14:57] Speaker 2: The charity Lailor found is called War Child. It's an
[15:00] Speaker 2: incredible organization that helps kids affected by war. They make
[15:04] Speaker 2: sure that these children are safe, get an education, and
[15:08] Speaker 2: most importantly, have a chance to just be kids again.
[15:11] Speaker 2: They build schools, provide therapy and help families rebuild their
[15:15] Speaker 2: lives in places like Afghanistan, Yemen, Iraq, and Uganda. Basically
[15:21] Speaker 2: wherever children are caught up in the crossfire and desperately
[15:24] Speaker 2: need support.
[15:26] Speaker 1: For Lala.
[15:27] Speaker 2: Volunteering with them was a chance to meet other young
[15:30] Speaker 2: people who have been impacted by war.
[15:33] Speaker 3: Now, obviously my parents had forewarned me that once you
[15:36] Speaker 3: come out with it, you know about being a child
[15:38] Speaker 3: born out of sexual violence, you can't put the genie
[15:42] Speaker 3: back in the bottle. You have to know that this
[15:44] Speaker 3: is something that you wanted to do. But it was
[15:46] Speaker 3: something that I wanted to do it. Actually speaking about
[15:50] Speaker 3: my story has always felt cathartic. Not all the time
[15:52] Speaker 3: in terms of sometimes it has depleted me rather than
[15:56] Speaker 3: filled me back up, but in most even then, starting
[16:00] Speaker 3: to talk about it and in the hope try and
[16:03] Speaker 3: find other children born out of sexual violence in which
[16:06] Speaker 3: I can communicate with them, that was important. So I
[16:10] Speaker 3: found that really useful for me. It was a great
[16:13] Speaker 3: sense of community and so on.
[16:16] Speaker 2: There's actually a term that sometimes used for children born
[16:19] Speaker 2: out of sexual violence in war, and it's invisible children.
[16:23] Speaker 2: Not because there's not a lot of information about them,
[16:25] Speaker 2: although that definitely was the case when Layla started searching,
[16:29] Speaker 2: but because of the stigma and rejection that surrounds them,
[16:33] Speaker 2: they're often seen as symbols of the enemy and socially excluded,
[16:37] Speaker 2: hence invisible. But Laila was determined to find others and
[16:42] Speaker 2: so continued sharing her story openly. Even when she got
[16:45] Speaker 2: to university.
[16:47] Speaker 3: I made really good friends with a girl called Hannah
[16:50] Speaker 3: who she was studying film. I told her my story
[16:55] Speaker 3: and she was like, Wow, this is crazy, this is unbelievable.
[17:00] Speaker 3: We should try and go find your birth mum. And
[17:03] Speaker 3: I was like, yeah, sounds great, you know, like sure,
[17:08] Speaker 3: Like we have many ideas, you know, this is just
[17:10] Speaker 3: one of those many great ideas that we're having. But
[17:14] Speaker 3: this one did actually come to fruition.
[17:17] Speaker 2: And it was a pretty wild idea to track down
[17:19] Speaker 2: Laila's birth mum for her friend's documentary film project. You see,
[17:23] Speaker 2: all her parents knew about Lala's biological mum was from
[17:26] Speaker 2: that interview they shot with her all those years ago
[17:29] Speaker 2: back in Sarajevo.
[17:31] Speaker 3: The first time I ever watched it was with my
[17:34] Speaker 3: dad for that documentary when I was nineteen, in like
[17:39] Speaker 3: a studio in our university.
[17:43] Speaker 1: Yeah, my god.
[17:44] Speaker 3: So my dad had bought it on Beta Cam played
[17:47] Speaker 3: it to me, and that was the first time I
[17:50] Speaker 3: sat next to him and watched it and I could
[17:53] Speaker 3: see my best friend behind as she was filming on
[17:58] Speaker 3: and as I'm listen listening to what my biological mother's
[18:01] Speaker 3: saying about me and how she didn't want to hold
[18:04] Speaker 3: me because she would strangle me, I can see my
[18:07] Speaker 3: best friend opposite me and her eyes just slightly widening. Ultimately,
[18:14] Speaker 3: the words do hurt, but the words are reminders of
[18:18] Speaker 3: the impact that sexual violence has and conflict related sexual
[18:23] Speaker 3: violence has, Like that is it. And ultimately, although she
[18:27] Speaker 3: may have given me up for adoption because she didn't
[18:30] Speaker 3: want to see me and she didn't want anything to
[18:32] Speaker 3: do with me, her sacrifice of given me up for
[18:34] Speaker 3: adoption has given me the life that I have today.
[18:37] Speaker 3: So it's given me incredible privilege and so much love.
[18:40] Speaker 3: So it's one of them.
[18:42] Speaker 1: Wow, how did you react in that moment?
[18:46] Speaker 3: I just hold on to my dad and because he
[18:50] Speaker 3: ends with saying, this child will probably end up going
[18:53] Speaker 3: to one of the orphanages like all the other children.
[18:56] Speaker 3: And then my dad says, she didn't go to the orphanages.
[18:59] Speaker 3: She turned into you wonderful thing.
[19:02] Speaker 2: I saw the clip of the documentary where we see
[19:04] Speaker 2: Layla watching the news report from Christmas Day of nineteen
[19:07] Speaker 2: ninety two. Her birth mother is filmed so that you
[19:10] Speaker 2: can only see the back of her head and her
[19:12] Speaker 2: hands sort of gesturing. She's speaking in Bosnia, but you
[19:16] Speaker 2: can understand it because she's been dubbed in English, and
[19:19] Speaker 2: Layla is fixated on the screen, sitting next to her dad,
[19:23] Speaker 2: and he does a really amazing job of just being
[19:25] Speaker 2: there for her. But it's pretty chilling when you hear
[19:28] Speaker 2: the words I don't want to see that baby, because
[19:31] Speaker 2: if I did, I would strangle her. When you're watching it,
[19:35] Speaker 2: you see this jolt of sudden emotion hit Layla's face,
[19:38] Speaker 2: and watching it, I admit I did the same thing,
[19:42] Speaker 2: because that's a really, really tough thing for anyone to hear.
[19:46] Speaker 2: Having seen that video and heard her birth mon's voice
[19:49] Speaker 2: for the first time, Layla had even more questions than before.
[19:54] Speaker 2: She was determined to go to Bosnia on this project.
[19:57] Speaker 2: It was a shot in the dark, for sure, but
[20:00] Speaker 2: it was also her only shot at getting answers.
[20:03] Speaker 3: Prior to going to Bosnia, we went to the Bosnian
[20:05] Speaker 3: embassy in the UK, and I have my biological mother's
[20:10] Speaker 3: name or my first certificate, so I asked them if
[20:12] Speaker 3: they could find her or support me in the journey
[20:15] Speaker 3: of trying to find her. They said, yes, they'll help,
[20:19] Speaker 3: but I need to kind of manage my own expectations.
[20:22] Speaker 3: She might not be alive, she might not want to
[20:24] Speaker 3: be found, change a name, so on and so forth.
[20:27] Speaker 3: But we anyway went to Bosnia. We went back to
[20:30] Speaker 3: the hospital where I was born, and the press officer
[20:33] Speaker 3: showed us around, and then there was a nurse there
[20:38] Speaker 3: who was one of the nurses that was there originally
[20:42] Speaker 3: and knew about my story and was like, you've come back.
[20:47] Speaker 3: I can't believe you've come back. There are still people
[20:50] Speaker 3: here that kind of remember my story or remember my parents,
[20:54] Speaker 3: And that felt really nice. That felt like I was
[20:57] Speaker 3: already starting to have a connection to Bosnia on just
[21:00] Speaker 3: kind of holidays.
[21:02] Speaker 2: How did you feel making that choice to try and
[21:05] Speaker 2: find your biological mother. I mean, from the way you've
[21:08] Speaker 2: described it, it seems like it was quite a casual
[21:11] Speaker 2: in to that thing, but it's quite a big process.
[21:16] Speaker 3: I suppose it's because I didn't think i'd find her. Initially, Yes,
[21:21] Speaker 3: it felt casual because also I really was very conscious
[21:24] Speaker 3: that I wasn't sure that she was wanted to be found,
[21:26] Speaker 3: and I also wasn't sure that she was alive either.
[21:29] Speaker 2: Yeah, well I guess yeah. You have to prepare yourself
[21:33] Speaker 2: for potential disappointment.
[21:35] Speaker 3: For a lot of different variables. Yeah.
[21:39] Speaker 2: She didn't find her birth mum, nor did she find
[21:42] Speaker 2: anyone else who truly understood her background, and so when
[21:45] Speaker 2: she returned home, she was again alone. That all changed
[21:52] Speaker 2: when War Child, the charity she had been volunteering with,
[21:55] Speaker 2: connected her with someone who would transform her life. Leaving
[22:00] Speaker 2: Bosnia without the answers she had hoped for, she returned
[22:03] Speaker 2: once more, not to find her mother, but to meet Aina.
[22:08] Speaker 3: I met Aina through a researcher called amradelch.
[22:12] Speaker 1: Aina is Bosnian.
[22:13] Speaker 2: Like Laila, she was also born out of sexual violence
[22:17] Speaker 2: during the Bosnian War, and like Laila, she found out
[22:21] Speaker 2: the full story of her birth when she was a teenager.
[22:24] Speaker 2: But Aina grew up in Bosnia and still lived in Sarajevo.
[22:29] Speaker 3: It was boiling hot summer day in August, like hot.
[22:34] Speaker 3: We were outside at a table and I remember kind
[22:37] Speaker 3: of being sat there. I was wearing a blue dress
[22:39] Speaker 3: and was in a white T shirt and shorts, and
[22:42] Speaker 3: we were just sat there having coffee. And you know,
[22:44] Speaker 3: here's what I've been doing in the UK. Do you
[22:47] Speaker 3: know any other children? There's got to be more children
[22:49] Speaker 3: than just me and you, but you know, is there
[22:52] Speaker 3: a kind of wider group? So you know, she shared
[22:56] Speaker 3: her story, I shared mine like it is truly amazing
[23:00] Speaker 3: and yeah, and we just right from the beginning got
[23:04] Speaker 3: on like so close. It was nice to be able
[23:08] Speaker 3: to explore all the different emotions that you can feel
[23:11] Speaker 3: as a child born out of sexual violence with someone
[23:14] Speaker 3: else that has also experienced those emotions.
[23:17] Speaker 1: Yeah, so many things you don't have to explain.
[23:20] Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, it's that. Yeah, it's exactly that.
[23:29] Speaker 2: When you've been through something unusual, you're almost on high
[23:32] Speaker 2: alert every time you meet someone new, thinking when are
[23:35] Speaker 2: they going to ask me this? Because then I'm naturally
[23:38] Speaker 2: going to have to explain that that's been Laila's entire life.
[23:44] Speaker 2: But here with Aina, that guard is down, no explanations needed,
[23:49] Speaker 2: no batting off well meaning but slightly silencing I'm sorries,
[23:54] Speaker 2: no having to explain the entire political and social and
[23:58] Speaker 2: ethical backstory of the Bob war. Aina gets it, and
[24:03] Speaker 2: Layla gets Aina. Laila is no longer invisible, and with
[24:08] Speaker 2: this feeling of invisibility shattered, she can finally get some answers.
[24:14] Speaker 2: After the break, Layla gets some unexpected news from the
[24:18] Speaker 2: Bosnian embassy.
[24:21] Speaker 3: I've got you.
[24:38] Speaker 2: When Laila got back from Bosnia, things felt a little flat.
[24:43] Speaker 3: I think I must have got a letter about eight
[24:45] Speaker 3: months later, and it basically it was from the Bosnian
[24:47] Speaker 3: embassy saying, Hey, I just want to let you know
[24:50] Speaker 3: we've identified and located your birth mom. We've sent a
[24:54] Speaker 3: police officer around. They have confirmed that it is your
[24:57] Speaker 3: birth mom. Here is her phone number and address, and
[25:01] Speaker 3: please feel free to contact her. And ultimately, I don't
[25:06] Speaker 3: speak Bosnian. I wasn't ever just gonna call. The first
[25:09] Speaker 3: amount of conversation that needs to be had, it needs
[25:12] Speaker 3: to be thought through. So I was it was always
[25:15] Speaker 3: going to be through letters, and then that way I
[25:18] Speaker 3: could describe what I was up to and just go
[25:23] Speaker 3: through that whole process. And she also then has the
[25:26] Speaker 3: time to respond, she is the opportunity to not respond
[25:29] Speaker 3: feels a little bit more consensual for the both of
[25:31] Speaker 3: us in terms of what thinking and having that space
[25:35] Speaker 3: to digest as well.
[25:37] Speaker 2: So Leila initiated contact by sending letters. First, she would
[25:41] Speaker 2: write the letters in English and then she would get
[25:43] Speaker 2: them translated to Bosnian. And send both copies.
[25:47] Speaker 3: The letter contacts very much, talking about what I was
[25:50] Speaker 3: studying at UNI and what my interests are and so on.
[25:53] Speaker 1: And what was it.
[25:54] Speaker 2: You know, obviously I can imagine your first letter. You'd
[25:57] Speaker 2: send it with her this has been my life, you know, yeah,
[26:00] Speaker 2: I'd love to meet up with you. But getting the
[26:03] Speaker 2: response from her, I guess you didn't know if it
[26:06] Speaker 2: was going to be positive or.
[26:07] Speaker 3: Yeah, And it was positive. You know, we're so glad
[26:13] Speaker 3: that you have this life. Say thank you to your parents,
[26:16] Speaker 3: and it was very positive. And then she spoke about
[26:20] Speaker 3: where she's living, who she's living with, you know, what
[26:23] Speaker 3: her life looks like. So there was this kind of
[26:26] Speaker 3: exchange of here's where I am and here's where you were.
[26:31] Speaker 3: And because you have to start from the beginning, you know. Yeah,
[26:35] Speaker 3: this was huge for Leila.
[26:38] Speaker 2: Remember the only words she'd ever heard from her mother
[26:41] Speaker 2: were those devastating ones from that nineteen ninety two video clip.
[26:45] Speaker 2: Now getting this positive response, it was everything. Leila shared
[26:50] Speaker 2: this news with Aina, the only person that she really
[26:53] Speaker 2: felt could understand what she was going through.
[26:56] Speaker 3: I said to Aina, you know, I know where my
[26:58] Speaker 3: birth mom is, and she basically said, would you like
[27:02] Speaker 3: to meet your birth mom. And I was like, yes,
[27:04] Speaker 3: I would, I would like to meet her. By this point,
[27:06] Speaker 3: would had quite I want to say, at least a
[27:09] Speaker 3: year or two years of less contact. And so Aina
[27:12] Speaker 3: said she'd go and meet my birth mom for me,
[27:15] Speaker 3: because she'd already met me, so she could vouch on
[27:19] Speaker 3: my behalf to say, Layla would like to meet you.
[27:22] Speaker 3: I've met her. It's quite a big ask, so it's
[27:25] Speaker 3: not something that you just want to be asking yeah,
[27:29] Speaker 3: through long form medium. And Aina went to go and
[27:35] Speaker 3: meet her, and Aina showed her pictures of me and
[27:39] Speaker 3: she said yes.
[27:41] Speaker 2: Laila was delighted her mum wanted to meet her, But
[27:45] Speaker 2: there was one big practical obstacle.
[27:48] Speaker 1: She needed an interpreter. And not just any interpreter.
[27:52] Speaker 2: This was a really emotional, potentially triggering, incredibly sensitive situation
[27:58] Speaker 2: that needed someone who could truly grasp what was at stake.
[28:02] Speaker 2: And that's when Ana stepped up to be that person,
[28:05] Speaker 2: the bridge between Layla and her birth mother. Layla, along
[28:10] Speaker 2: with her parents, flew to Bosnia for that life changing
[28:13] Speaker 2: first meeting.
[28:15] Speaker 3: The first meeting with my mum. I stayed at Ana's
[28:18] Speaker 3: the night before. I wore Azara coored navy blue trouser
[28:24] Speaker 3: and T shirt with Adidas trainers. And I remember it
[28:29] Speaker 3: so clearly because I wasn't short to.
[28:33] Speaker 1: That. There's no cosmopolity and ask for was about that.
[28:39] Speaker 3: I just don't know what it's just not, so I
[28:42] Speaker 3: wasn't sure what changed out. For as many times I
[28:46] Speaker 3: know was nervous. I could tell she was nervous because
[28:48] Speaker 3: ultimately she could understand how I was feeling as a
[28:51] Speaker 3: chilborn out sexual violence, but also knowing how hard it
[28:56] Speaker 3: must be for my birth mum. It wasn't tension in
[28:59] Speaker 3: a negative way, but let's say everyone was holding something.
[29:04] Speaker 3: My parents had bought flowers, I'd got flowers. My mom
[29:07] Speaker 3: had taken pictures of how I was when I was
[29:10] Speaker 3: like a kid so she could show. And then we
[29:13] Speaker 3: went up to the top floor of this very long
[29:16] Speaker 3: apartment building. So right at the top, the lift was
[29:20] Speaker 3: very slow, and I would distinctly remember ultimately getting to
[29:25] Speaker 3: the door and everyone was taking their shoes off to
[29:28] Speaker 3: go in, and Aina went in first, and then my
[29:33] Speaker 3: parents followed, and then I was the last one to
[29:37] Speaker 3: go in. You know, my mom hugged my biological mom,
[29:43] Speaker 3: my dad hugged my biological mom, and then I seen
[29:46] Speaker 3: my biological mom and we were sat there and they
[29:50] Speaker 3: went up to her and I gave her a hug,
[29:52] Speaker 3: and then we started crying, and then there was more
[29:57] Speaker 3: hugging and just holding, and then we pulled away, and
[30:01] Speaker 3: then we went and kind of sat down in the
[30:04] Speaker 3: living room. There were two sofas, so my parents sat
[30:08] Speaker 3: on one. I sat next to Aina, and we just
[30:12] Speaker 3: had a lot of coffee and a lot of cake
[30:15] Speaker 3: and a lot of chatting, and it went. It went well,
[30:18] Speaker 3: but it did feel like quite I remembered definitely feeling
[30:23] Speaker 3: quite anxious throughout the whole thing.
[30:26] Speaker 1: I think that's understandable.
[30:27] Speaker 3: Like it was lovely, and I really hope ultimately the
[30:31] Speaker 3: relationship that I still have and now have with my
[30:34] Speaker 3: birth mom gives us both a sense of peace and
[30:36] Speaker 3: healing in terms of that continued respect, love and gratitude
[30:44] Speaker 3: for the decisions that were made.
[30:46] Speaker 2: Yeah, that's amazing. And how's your relationship with Bosnia itself
[30:52] Speaker 2: changed since kind of meeting your birth mother.
[30:54] Speaker 3: Yeah, it's so different. Like, I'm so grateful to have
[30:57] Speaker 3: a relationship with Bosnia as country, but also because of
[31:04] Speaker 3: the healing that has come from that girl that I
[31:09] Speaker 3: described as being isolated, I feel less isolated and more connected.
[31:15] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[31:15] Speaker 2: Yeah, it sounds like you never fully disconnected from Bosnia. No,
[31:20] Speaker 2: And I think a lot of people would understand if
[31:24] Speaker 2: after meeting your birth mum obviously kind of going over
[31:28] Speaker 2: to Bosnia, you know, fair amount, if you decided that
[31:32] Speaker 2: that circle had been closed and you moved on. But
[31:36] Speaker 2: you've been doing way more activism since, right.
[31:41] Speaker 3: I think for me, ultimately, what the aim is and
[31:44] Speaker 3: the goal is is that, firstly, I don't want any
[31:47] Speaker 3: other children born out sexual violence to feel completely isolated
[31:50] Speaker 3: and alone. Also, children born out sexual violence have educational barriers,
[31:56] Speaker 3: barriers to identification cards, barriers and stigmatization. So for countries
[32:02] Speaker 3: that are going and experiencing war, like Ukraine for instance,
[32:06] Speaker 3: how can we already look at policies, laws and practices
[32:11] Speaker 3: to try and look at where post conflict when the
[32:16] Speaker 3: conflict does end, you know, how do we support those
[32:19] Speaker 3: children born out of sexual violence? Because I think that's
[32:22] Speaker 3: the thing that we can do practically. You know, there
[32:25] Speaker 3: are still days in which you don't feel great about yourself,
[32:29] Speaker 3: or there's still things that you feel ashamed of, or
[32:32] Speaker 3: are still things that you're working through that just doesn't
[32:34] Speaker 3: finish because also it's still a topic that people don't
[32:38] Speaker 3: feel comfortable talking about. There's still a major tabot over it,
[32:41] Speaker 3: so those children do become invisible. Yeah, how do we
[32:45] Speaker 3: help future children born out of sexual violence so they
[32:47] Speaker 3: don't have that. I'm going to google children born out
[32:51] Speaker 3: sexual violence and find nothing.
[32:54] Speaker 2: Leila has taken the silence, the stigma, and the invisibility
[32:58] Speaker 2: of her story and created real change. She's not just
[33:02] Speaker 2: advocating for recognition, but rather she's actively shaping the narrative
[33:07] Speaker 2: and demanding that these children, some of whom are now adults,
[33:10] Speaker 2: are seen, heard and supported.
[33:14] Speaker 1: And that's the real impact.
[33:16] Speaker 2: Laila and Aina are fighting to give a voice to
[33:18] Speaker 2: children like them, proving that your history, even from the
[33:22] Speaker 2: darkest points, doesn't define you, and their advocacy and raising
[33:27] Speaker 2: awareness around this topic has actually started to pay off.
[33:30] Speaker 1: For the first time.
[33:31] Speaker 2: In twenty twenty three, discussions of children born of sexual
[33:35] Speaker 2: violence during war was a specific agenda point on the
[33:39] Speaker 2: US Institute of Peace Summit in Washington.
[33:42] Speaker 3: They're the small wins. Right before, it was not talked about,
[33:47] Speaker 3: and finally there was a whole panel discussion on children
[33:50] Speaker 3: born out of sexual Vince and you're like, yes, yes,
[33:53] Speaker 3: because we're creating dialogue even though people don't have all
[33:56] Speaker 3: the answers. We're not going to solve everything. But that
[34:00] Speaker 3: was a huge moment. Progress is slow, societal change is slow.
[34:06] Speaker 3: We keep moving forward because it is one hundred percent
[34:09] Speaker 3: righting to do, it is one hundred percent needed. And
[34:13] Speaker 3: then ultimately when me Aina and all children born out
[34:16] Speaker 3: sexual violence from Bosnia one the Oslo human rights toward it,
[34:20] Speaker 3: that was huge. That was really I remember now telling
[34:24] Speaker 3: me and then I just burst into tears. Sat exactually
[34:29] Speaker 3: now it just burst into tears. I was like, oh wow.
[34:32] Speaker 3: And what it is is it's the feeling of being seen,
[34:37] Speaker 3: which is phenomenal. Finally being seen after so long. It's
[34:43] Speaker 3: such a powerful thing, and especially for children that are
[34:48] Speaker 3: defined as invisible.
[34:50] Speaker 2: It feels like that's what so much of the story
[34:52] Speaker 2: boils down to, isn't It's being seen and being seen
[34:56] Speaker 2: by each other as well, finding the comunity.
[35:00] Speaker 1: Yeah, and so therefore seeing yourself.
[35:02] Speaker 3: Seeing yourself, working on loving yourself, like working on all
[35:05] Speaker 3: of these things that you know, regardless of your history,
[35:08] Speaker 3: heritage or background. It's not exactly easy, but feeling seen,
[35:13] Speaker 3: having a sense of belonging. You know all of it,
[35:16] Speaker 3: but I have had incredible amounts of love. I'm fully
[35:20] Speaker 3: aware of that, and I'm very lucky. I'm grateful.
[35:26] Speaker 2: We all need to be seen and see ourselves reflected
[35:29] Speaker 2: in the world around us. It doesn't have to be
[35:32] Speaker 2: in some big way like this story. Last night, my
[35:35] Speaker 2: best mate of twenty five years said to me over dinner, Oh,
[35:38] Speaker 2: but you've always been like that, And it was enough
[35:41] Speaker 2: to remind me that I'm not going mad, and I
[35:42] Speaker 2: slept better last night for it. But Laila and Aina's
[35:46] Speaker 2: story also proved just how much two friends with a
[35:49] Speaker 2: shared mission can do. Back in twenty eighteen, Ina started
[35:54] Speaker 2: an organization called The Forgotten Children of War that focuses
[35:58] Speaker 2: on securing legal and social recognition for children born out
[36:02] Speaker 2: of war. As for Layla, she's a trustee of Grace International,
[36:06] Speaker 2: the charity based in the UK that promotes long term
[36:10] Speaker 2: reconciliation and advocacy for children born out of war as well.
[36:14] Speaker 2: The two of them continue to work side by side,
[36:18] Speaker 2: fighting for justice and visibility. What began as two women
[36:22] Speaker 2: connecting on a hot summer's day in Bosnia has blossomed
[36:25] Speaker 2: into a formidable alliance. They're spreading the comfort they've found
[36:30] Speaker 2: in each other across the globe, helping others feel less
[36:33] Speaker 2: alone because there's a couple of girlfriends out there rooting
[36:36] Speaker 2: for them. And honestly, if that's not what this podcast
[36:39] Speaker 2: is about, then I don't know what is. If you've
[36:47] Speaker 2: enjoyed this conversation, you can find loads more incredible women
[36:51] Speaker 2: on our feed. Do check them out, and please do
[36:53] Speaker 2: spread the word and tell your friends about us. We
[36:56] Speaker 2: want as many people as possible to be part of
[36:58] Speaker 2: the Girlfriend's Gang. Next time, on The Girlfriend's Spotlight, Rosamond
[37:07] Speaker 2: clears the air.
[37:13] Speaker 1: And the coronet was very clear.
[37:15] Speaker 4: If it wasn't for the air around Luisia, where Ella lived,
[37:19] Speaker 4: not only would she not have got asthma, but she
[37:23] Speaker 4: wouldn't have died on that fatal night.
[37:34] Speaker 2: This season, we're supporting the charity Womankind Worldwide. They do
[37:39] Speaker 2: amazing work to help women's rights organizations and movements to
[37:42] Speaker 2: strengthen and grow. If you'd like to find out more
[37:46] Speaker 2: or donate to help them secure equal rights for women
[37:48] Speaker 2: and girls across the globe, you can go to Womankind
[37:52] Speaker 2: dot org dot UK. The Girlfriend's Spotlight is produced by
[38:07] Speaker 2: novel for iHeart Podcasts. For more from novel, visit novel
[38:12] Speaker 2: dot Audio. The show is hosted by me Anna Sinfield.
[38:17] Speaker 2: This episode was written and produced by al Shay Barney.
[38:21] Speaker 2: Our assistant producer is Lucy Carr. Our researcher is Zaiana Yusuf.
[38:26] Speaker 2: The editor is Hannah Marshall. Max O'Brien and Craig Strachan
[38:31] Speaker 2: are our executive producers. Production management from Joe Savage, Shereie Houston,
[38:37] Speaker 2: and Charlotte Wolf. Sound design, mixing and scoring by Nicholas
[38:42] Speaker 2: Alexander and Daniel Kempsen. Music supervision by Jacob Tivich, Nicholas Alexander,
[38:48] Speaker 2: and Anna Sinfield. Original music composed by Louisa Gerstein and
[38:53] Speaker 2: Jemma Freeman. The series artwork was designed by Christina Lemcool.
[38:58] Speaker 2: Willard Foxton is creative director of Development and Special thanks
[39:03] Speaker 2: to Katrina Norvelle, Carrie Lieberman, and Will Pearson at iHeart Podcasts,
[39:08] Speaker 2: as well as Carl Frankel and the whole team at
[39:11] Speaker 2: w M E.

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