# Full Circle Moments w/ Saint Jhn

An episode of [Keep it Positive, Sweetie](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1689495115), 21 Apr 2025, 32 min.

Audio: https://pdrl.fm/1504e6/podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/44f61442-7ba4-4250-b406-b35901038504/c8b6bcab-0655-43dc-81cd-b359010720dc/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=2cfaa2b1-0f12-4656-aec3-b3590103850e

This week on Keep It Positive, Sweetie, I had the honor of sitting down with the incomparable talent that is Saint Jhn. His story is raw, real, and deeply relatable—a journey that’s sure to leave you inspired. You don’t want to miss this one. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:00] Speaker 1: Calling all my sweeties to the forefronts.
[0:03] Speaker 2: I'm your host, Christopherine and Hazel and this is to
[0:05] Speaker 2: Keep It Positive Sweetie Show. Hello, and welcome back to
[0:10] Speaker 2: the Keep It Positive Sweetie Show, a safe face to heal, laugh,
[0:14] Speaker 2: grow and love and keep things real with a positive twist.
[0:17] Speaker 1: I'm your host CHRISTOPHINEE.
[0:18] Speaker 2: Hazlet, and I am so excited about today's episode. We've
[0:22] Speaker 2: got incredibly talented artists in the building. He's a Grammy
[0:25] Speaker 2: Award winning singer, songwriter and producer who's made ways with
[0:29] Speaker 2: his bold sound and fearless storytelling. He's also making incredible
[0:33] Speaker 2: ways in the fashion world. I'm talking about the one
[0:36] Speaker 2: and only, none other.
[0:38] Speaker 1: Than Saint John.
[0:40] Speaker 2: Saint John, thank you so much for coming. We are
[0:43] Speaker 2: going to break the ice with a quick game called
[0:46] Speaker 2: Roses and Rapid Fire.
[0:47] Speaker 3: All right, how you're ready, I'm ready?
[0:49] Speaker 1: All right.
[0:49] Speaker 2: So all you have to do is give me one
[0:51] Speaker 2: word that comes to mind when I give you a word.
[0:53] Speaker 2: First word is fashion, sexy, home, peaceful, hair, looks, the
[1:00] Speaker 2: Bigger Picture, Plans.
[1:05] Speaker 1: Grammys, must.
[1:10] Speaker 2: Coachella, Grandeur, m Puerto Rico, Political, Beyonce, Grammys, Yeah, Book
[1:25] Speaker 2: of Clarence.
[1:26] Speaker 3: Family, oh Man I just think of James.
[1:29] Speaker 1: Yes, Guyana Home Festival season.
[1:36] Speaker 3: One time.
[1:37] Speaker 1: All right, I love it. Let's get into it.
[1:40] Speaker 2: So I don't know if you remember this twenty seventeen.
[1:44] Speaker 2: It was in Mey weekend Tyler Perry's birthday. He had
[1:48] Speaker 2: a huge part in the backyard. James Sable was on
[1:52] Speaker 2: the piano. Everybody want, I say, everybody named Mama, every
[1:55] Speaker 2: I come from. Like I looked at my left Applecino
[1:58] Speaker 2: was sitting next to me, and then you looks at
[1:59] Speaker 2: your and Samuel Jackson saying, what up your effort?
[2:02] Speaker 1: Like it was like you just didn't know who you're
[2:04] Speaker 1: going to see.
[2:05] Speaker 2: And then James caused this kid to the stage and
[2:08] Speaker 2: it was you. Y. This was my first introduction to you,
[2:12] Speaker 2: and I called it tyless.
[2:13] Speaker 1: And I said what year was that party? And he
[2:15] Speaker 1: was like which one? And I was explained, He's like,
[2:17] Speaker 1: that was twenty seventeen.
[2:19] Speaker 3: I was fiftieth yea it was.
[2:22] Speaker 1: He was like forty seven.
[2:23] Speaker 2: It was like an odd year, but yeah, it was
[2:25] Speaker 2: forty seven and we had a time. But that was
[2:28] Speaker 2: my first introduction to you, and I was an instant fan.
[2:31] Speaker 3: Oh thank you, yes, yes.
[2:33] Speaker 2: When it's funny, I was telling Donna how things come
[2:37] Speaker 2: full circle, and that was one of the moments I
[2:39] Speaker 2: was like, wow, Like I get to interview him now.
[2:41] Speaker 1: But I remember what the first time I was introduced
[2:43] Speaker 1: to you.
[2:43] Speaker 3: I remember that distinctly.
[2:45] Speaker 1: Wasn't that crazy?
[2:46] Speaker 3: Yeah? Yeah, because I was in a back somewhere. But
[2:50] Speaker 3: to paint the picture of how dynamic, enormous and impact
[2:55] Speaker 3: full out room was, like the world would shake. If
[2:58] Speaker 3: that room said we're gonna all do something, the whole
[3:01] Speaker 3: planet would shape literally. Yeah, it was.
[3:03] Speaker 1: It was powerful.
[3:04] Speaker 3: It was really really powerful. I remember Mariah Carey being
[3:07] Speaker 3: at the bar over here. I remember because James does this.
[3:12] Speaker 3: So James would be like, look, just come, just show
[3:14] Speaker 3: up and I won't know what I'm showing up for.
[3:16] Speaker 3: He's like, just trust me, just trust me, and I
[3:18] Speaker 3: trust him. It's my brother something showing up and pulling
[3:21] Speaker 3: up for whatever he needs. And he's like, yo, just
[3:23] Speaker 3: you're gonna be all right. Yeah, that was a pull up.
[3:26] Speaker 3: That's not the first time he's done that. That was
[3:29] Speaker 3: a pull up. I remember who he passed at this point, Michael.
[3:35] Speaker 1: Oh, yes, I'm bading Michael on the last.
[3:39] Speaker 3: Name he was. He deserves to be celebrated his name
[3:44] Speaker 3: was his last Yeah, of course he said, oh my,
[3:50] Speaker 3: we definitely know what we want to Shocky White from
[3:54] Speaker 3: the other movie for the other show. But it's Michael's
[4:00] Speaker 3: first time. This was before past. I remember Michael Williams,
[4:04] Speaker 3: Michael K. Williams. I remember running to running into him
[4:07] Speaker 3: at the bathroom and he was just his energy was
[4:11] Speaker 3: just turned like with humility and peaceful and gratitude, and
[4:15] Speaker 3: he was just like I was like, man, this is
[4:17] Speaker 3: this is Omar's such a nice guy, such a nice guy.
[4:23] Speaker 2: That was really sad when when I heard of his
[4:24] Speaker 2: fast and because of having an interaction with him as well,
[4:27] Speaker 2: I was like, man, when you meet people and really
[4:29] Speaker 2: get to feel their energy, he was like nothing like
[4:32] Speaker 2: his characters, Like the way he portrayed was genius, Like
[4:36] Speaker 2: he came at every character in such a beautiful way.
[4:38] Speaker 2: But then when you guys meet him, it's such a
[4:41] Speaker 2: beautiful Yeah.
[4:42] Speaker 1: Special for sure.
[4:44] Speaker 3: That was a really memorable night. It was do you
[4:48] Speaker 3: remember I remember Kelly Rowland being in right, I remember
[4:51] Speaker 3: that And James caught me on stage right after I
[4:57] Speaker 3: closed my Sick Of Picture. It was usher I need
[5:00] Speaker 3: to say yes, and Donald Glover.
[5:02] Speaker 1: He popped up out of nowhere.
[5:04] Speaker 3: They were doing at Yes Yo.
[5:06] Speaker 1: It was crazy.
[5:07] Speaker 3: It was a crazy night. And then James was like, Yo,
[5:10] Speaker 3: come do beflex because that's his favorite song of mine.
[5:12] Speaker 3: So he starts performing with me blown.
[5:16] Speaker 2: It was, yeah, we can reminize, just we can reminisce
[5:19] Speaker 2: on that night alone for like hours.
[5:20] Speaker 1: It was such a good night.
[5:22] Speaker 2: So let's talk about your journey, going back to the beginning.
[5:25] Speaker 2: You grew up between Brooklyn and Guyana. What was that
[5:28] Speaker 2: like between shift between both cultures?
[5:32] Speaker 3: It was poor and poorer. I thought we were at
[5:36] Speaker 3: the bottom in Brooklyn because we're on food stamps. My
[5:39] Speaker 3: mom is working three shifts. She's a nurse's age. She's
[5:42] Speaker 3: just trying to hustle by the way I spent her
[5:44] Speaker 3: and I spent the last couple of weeks talking about
[5:46] Speaker 3: the word hustle because she's old school. My mom is
[5:48] Speaker 3: sixty five. So when I say hustle, and she'd heard
[5:51] Speaker 3: me say it like in a interview or something, she's like,
[5:54] Speaker 3: I wasn't a prostitute because she thought because her only
[5:58] Speaker 3: concept was hustle, She's like, I wasn't a street walk off.
[6:02] Speaker 3: I said, Mom, come on, you know that's not what
[6:05] Speaker 3: I'm saying. But she got it, and she's like, you
[6:07] Speaker 3: know what, You're right. I wasn't super hustler, get into it,
[6:11] Speaker 3: get into it before she knew what the bag was.
[6:13] Speaker 3: She wasn't getting to the back because my mom has
[6:15] Speaker 3: four kids. Oh wow, so in single mom, my pops
[6:20] Speaker 3: just wasn't around. He was just off doing whatever he
[6:23] Speaker 3: was doing. So she was working as much as she
[6:26] Speaker 3: possibly could. And we were super poor. We had the
[6:28] Speaker 3: Monopoly money. That's when the food stamps me on multi
[6:31] Speaker 3: colored and I remember thinking, you know what, where's broke
[6:36] Speaker 3: as we could possibly get were as poor as we
[6:38] Speaker 3: could possibly be. But what was really really really important
[6:41] Speaker 3: to her? She was so stupid. My mom was so sharped.
[6:43] Speaker 3: She was just really clear on her vision and what
[6:45] Speaker 3: she needed for her kids. We lived the block away
[6:48] Speaker 3: from the projects all the time. Every time, so I
[6:50] Speaker 3: grew up in Brooklyn, there was always one block away
[6:53] Speaker 3: from the projects because for her, those centimeters and millimeters
[6:57] Speaker 3: away made a magnet inficent difference in what she could
[7:03] Speaker 3: make sure she embedded into us as children. And she's right,
[7:06] Speaker 3: it would have been a tremendous difference because we got
[7:09] Speaker 3: into so much trouble, with so much trauma and drama
[7:11] Speaker 3: growing up me and my brothers that if I was
[7:14] Speaker 3: inside the box as opposed to ten millimeters away from
[7:18] Speaker 3: the box, we probably wouldn't have been here talking to her. Yeah,
[7:22] Speaker 3: the what would have never heard about me?
[7:24] Speaker 2: Oh wow, you talked about your mother being a preacher.
[7:29] Speaker 2: My mom was a pastor. So we're a few kids,
[7:31] Speaker 2: and just like you, every time.
[7:34] Speaker 1: The doors of the church opened, we was in there.
[7:36] Speaker 1: And I know we all like.
[7:37] Speaker 2: I went through a phase in my life where I
[7:39] Speaker 2: was like, I'm not going it since I got to college,
[7:40] Speaker 2: I just got going to church. I was like, you're
[7:43] Speaker 2: forced to do it your whole life in like Sunday school,
[7:45] Speaker 2: choir practice, Bible study, the meetings like before and after church.
[7:49] Speaker 1: It was just like, oh, it's too much. The second service,
[7:51] Speaker 1: it's a lot.
[7:53] Speaker 2: Have you been able to find your own relationship with
[7:56] Speaker 2: God in your own way?
[7:57] Speaker 1: Because I feel like we are the church.
[7:59] Speaker 2: It's not a building having to go into someone. How
[8:02] Speaker 2: do you carry that out in your day to day
[8:04] Speaker 2: life now?
[8:06] Speaker 3: So I think it manifests itself in my art and
[8:09] Speaker 3: my creativity and my portrayal of my creativity. Probably even
[8:14] Speaker 3: more than in my day to day life because it's
[8:16] Speaker 3: such a normal function. It's a normal function of behavior.
[8:19] Speaker 3: I'll explain it a little bit better, Okay. So I
[8:21] Speaker 3: make music all the time, every day almost, and the
[8:27] Speaker 3: cathartic experience of me making music, it's almost like I'm
[8:31] Speaker 3: doing mantras and I'm almost praying all the time. You'll
[8:35] Speaker 3: always hear biblical references. You'll always hear religious references in
[8:38] Speaker 3: my music. And it's not things I'm planning or scheduling.
[8:42] Speaker 3: It just it's just happening, right. So it's almost like
[8:46] Speaker 3: I'm praying in small portions constantly. And if I didn't
[8:50] Speaker 3: take stock or have enough self awareness, I miss it.
[8:54] Speaker 3: I miss all the songs and all the tributes that
[8:57] Speaker 3: I make to God. I miss it all the time.
[9:01] Speaker 3: But as you see, like my name is Saint John,
[9:03] Speaker 3: my mom named me that, it's my birth name. It
[9:07] Speaker 3: keeps following me.
[9:09] Speaker 1: It keeps I thought I ran away.
[9:14] Speaker 3: The cross is my logo.
[9:16] Speaker 1: I saw even on your posts, you always with the
[9:18] Speaker 1: purple emoji with the cross.
[9:20] Speaker 3: It just keeps not haunting me wouldn't be the right word,
[9:23] Speaker 3: but it keeps trailing me. It's always, ever, ever present.
[9:27] Speaker 3: Because I definitely ran away from the institutional church. Yes,
[9:30] Speaker 3: I hated that. I hated that. I hated would have
[9:33] Speaker 3: tried to force upon me. I hated it would have
[9:35] Speaker 3: tried to teach me that I had to be. I
[9:37] Speaker 3: hated how prejudicial it was and how hell and brim fire.
[9:42] Speaker 3: I hate that level of preaching. I didn't like that
[9:44] Speaker 3: it wasn't inclusive and whatever your journey could be or
[9:47] Speaker 3: your process could be. But in my daily regimen, my
[9:50] Speaker 3: daily practice, I'm giving it up to God all the time,
[9:52] Speaker 3: even in the small ways. My mom told me, she
[9:55] Speaker 3: said I was telling about something I was going through recently,
[9:59] Speaker 3: and she said, cool, got to go talk to God.
[10:01] Speaker 3: She was like, She's like, you know, I don't beg
[10:02] Speaker 3: God for nothing. For nothing, I used to just go
[10:07] Speaker 3: to your father. And I said, look, Father is what
[10:10] Speaker 3: I need?
[10:10] Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And.
[10:11] Speaker 3: I'm like, this is yeah, this is it.
[10:14] Speaker 1: Yeah, that's it. You don't have to beg him.
[10:16] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[10:16] Speaker 2: I mean, just like you wouldn't have to beg your
[10:18] Speaker 2: mom for something, we don't have to beg him.
[10:20] Speaker 1: I love that I got to meet your eye. She
[10:22] Speaker 1: seemed like she cool, Yeah, very much. I love that.
[10:26] Speaker 2: So we just finished New York Fashion Week and one
[10:30] Speaker 2: thing I will say about you because I didn't we
[10:32] Speaker 2: had never officially met. Like I think I had posted
[10:35] Speaker 2: one of your songs after Tyler's party and you send
[10:37] Speaker 2: me a little emoji like respond or whatever, and I
[10:41] Speaker 2: was like benefit of every since Tiller's party, like you
[10:43] Speaker 2: were there.
[10:43] Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, but we never met in real life.
[10:46] Speaker 2: And I when I met you last week at fashion Week,
[10:50] Speaker 2: your energy like it's something like you're first of all,
[10:55] Speaker 2: you have this confidence when you enter the room, but
[10:57] Speaker 2: then like when you're like, Hi, how are you doing?
[10:59] Speaker 1: Like just so welcoming.
[11:01] Speaker 2: It's not like that I know I'm the shit, Like
[11:03] Speaker 2: it's like I know who I am, but hello, how
[11:06] Speaker 2: are you? It's like you I felt that, and just
[11:09] Speaker 2: watching you like move through the room, I was like,
[11:11] Speaker 2: this guy's got it.
[11:12] Speaker 1: You just have it.
[11:13] Speaker 2: Where did that confidence come from?
[11:15] Speaker 3: I think my first thought is probably failing feeling so much. Wow, yeah,
[11:20] Speaker 3: I d so much. I feel I missed so many times.
[11:25] Speaker 3: I'm proud of myself, but not proud of myself because
[11:29] Speaker 3: I'm something special. I'm proud of myself cause I've never
[11:31] Speaker 3: given up on myself. M So when I walk in
[11:34] Speaker 3: a room. Even if it's my first time in the room,
[11:37] Speaker 3: it might be my last time in the room. Wow,
[11:39] Speaker 3: i might never get back in that room again. And
[11:41] Speaker 3: I'm grateful to be there. And w I could be
[11:45] Speaker 3: the guy who's holding the camera. I could be the
[11:46] Speaker 3: guy who's holding the lights. I could be the guy
[11:48] Speaker 3: that's moving the plants. I could be a guy in
[11:49] Speaker 3: front of the camera. I could be the guy that's
[11:50] Speaker 3: moving the magazines. And I'm aware of that in my life.
[11:53] Speaker 3: So I'm always grateful for everybody who's there. I'm like, yo,
[11:56] Speaker 3: what's up? Yeah, Like, I don't know who you are,
[11:58] Speaker 3: but I'm sure you're here for a reason. Just want
[12:00] Speaker 3: to say hot.
[12:00] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[12:01] Speaker 3: And I think my confidence comes from all of the things,
[12:04] Speaker 3: all the experiences, all of the pitfalls, all the missteps,
[12:07] Speaker 3: all of the misinformations, all of the bad nights. Were
[12:10] Speaker 3: still having to get up in the early moments to
[12:11] Speaker 3: figure out how to do it again. Yeah, Like, you
[12:14] Speaker 3: gotta keep the same energy. You know that when people
[12:17] Speaker 3: say that, it took me a long long time to
[12:19] Speaker 3: realize what that meant. It means that even when it's bad,
[12:23] Speaker 3: even when it's good, when a roller coaster goes up
[12:25] Speaker 3: and the roller coaster goes down. When the day is rough,
[12:28] Speaker 3: when your hair rain't done and make up his mess up,
[12:30] Speaker 3: when your shoes his muddy, when your shirt is tatted
[12:33] Speaker 3: about to come on. Every something has to stay standards,
[12:40] Speaker 3: something has to be the same, keep the same energy.
[12:42] Speaker 3: It's all good. Yeah, one day up, next day down.
[12:44] Speaker 3: Long as you stay the same with a comeback, I
[12:46] Speaker 3: love it. I'll kind of live by that.
[12:48] Speaker 2: Yeah, speaking of ups and downs, what is a moment
[12:52] Speaker 2: through the failures and the ups and downs that really
[12:56] Speaker 2: stood with you?
[12:56] Speaker 1: I was like, man, I really made it through that.
[13:00] Speaker 3: Sometimes it's tough for me to pinpoint because they're daily.
[13:04] Speaker 3: I think you know, if if your skin is clear
[13:12] Speaker 3: and you walk in bold and straight, there's a presumption
[13:16] Speaker 3: that you don't have to deal with pain or you're
[13:20] Speaker 3: just in a peaceful place. So, and it definitely doesn't
[13:24] Speaker 3: mean that I'm wrestling with shit. Yah, pardon me from curse. Yeah,
[13:28] Speaker 3: I'm wrestling with things on a regular basis. So I'm
[13:31] Speaker 3: trying to pinpoint one of the most challenging times. Oh, man,
[13:38] Speaker 3: I don't know, I might have to circle back.
[13:41] Speaker 2: No, it's okay, cause I just I know, like we
[13:44] Speaker 2: all have for me, there's moments of my life where
[13:46] Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, that was like a rough season. I
[13:48] Speaker 2: think me moving to Atlanta was probably one of my toughest,
[13:51] Speaker 2: like depressing seasons of my life, trying to figure everything
[13:54] Speaker 2: out starting all over again. That's like one season I remember.
[13:57] Speaker 2: I was like, that was rough for me where I
[13:59] Speaker 2: really had to lean on my faith because I didn't
[14:01] Speaker 2: know where the next meal was coming from.
[14:03] Speaker 3: Nothing, but I was kind of the roughest or it's
[14:06] Speaker 3: not just closest in reference point.
[14:09] Speaker 2: Closest in, No, that was probably and it felt it
[14:13] Speaker 2: felt so long, like you know how sometimes you.
[14:15] Speaker 1: Just have like a bad week. It felt like a
[14:17] Speaker 1: bad year where I was just like, okay, now.
[14:21] Speaker 2: Didn't I make the right choice coming here? Clearly I did,
[14:23] Speaker 2: But yeah, that was definitely a season. I want to
[14:28] Speaker 2: talk about your music. You have such a unique blend.
[14:32] Speaker 2: I don't even there's no genre to put you in
[14:35] Speaker 2: a category. For me, when I listened to your music,
[14:37] Speaker 2: I felt you kind of touch on everything.
[14:39] Speaker 1: What was the inspiration for that? Was your creative process?
[14:42] Speaker 3: I'm free?
[14:43] Speaker 1: I love that. Yeah, I can tell I move like.
[14:45] Speaker 3: I'm free, I live like I'm free because in truth quietly,
[14:48] Speaker 3: I'm in search your freedom. Wow, I'm trying to project
[14:52] Speaker 3: the thing that I'm in search of search. I'm desperately
[14:55] Speaker 3: grappling at something that I want to feel, that I
[14:58] Speaker 3: want to be able to provide to the people around,
[15:00] Speaker 3: and that I'd like to be able to give his
[15:02] Speaker 3: hope for the people who are just observing me. It's
[15:04] Speaker 3: a freedom that I'm chasing, the thing that I know
[15:06] Speaker 3: is possible, that I'm really really really really really desperately
[15:10] Speaker 3: trying to hold onto. So when I go make music,
[15:14] Speaker 3: because I'm not no natural talent, I'm like, I don't care,
[15:17] Speaker 3: i don't care how I come across, and I'm not
[15:19] Speaker 3: being humble. I'm not This is not humility. This is
[15:23] Speaker 3: me being clear. This is clarity. Yeah right, maybe I'm
[15:28] Speaker 3: Maybe I'm special in a way. They were all special.
[15:30] Speaker 3: If you sat down with anybody and got to see
[15:32] Speaker 3: the inner workings of how their clockwork, you'd be like, Oh,
[15:35] Speaker 3: that person's magnificent. They do a thing really remarkable. Yes,
[15:39] Speaker 3: I don't think I'm special in any type of way.
[15:42] Speaker 3: I think I'm highlighted because I found my place. But
[15:45] Speaker 3: I found my place because I spent my seasons harvesting
[15:48] Speaker 3: my talent because I wasn't good, because I started out
[15:52] Speaker 3: just rapping, just battle rapping, just pursuing something I was
[15:55] Speaker 3: really desperately interested in and wasn't good at first, and
[15:58] Speaker 3: then got good and then hit so many brick walls.
[16:01] Speaker 3: I spent twenty years making music before anybody had heard
[16:03] Speaker 3: my name.
[16:04] Speaker 1: Wow, like twenty years, that's what we don't hear.
[16:06] Speaker 3: Yeah, real, twenty years. Imagine keeping the same energy for
[16:10] Speaker 3: twenty years, and keeping your skin glowing for twenty years,
[16:13] Speaker 3: and keeping your physique strong for twenty years, and keeping
[16:16] Speaker 3: your mind shot for twenty years, and being brave and
[16:18] Speaker 3: courageous for twenty years, and staying locked in for twenty years.
[16:24] Speaker 3: It's a lost many many, many summers. Most people give
[16:27] Speaker 3: up on themselves long before the sunrise is form.
[16:30] Speaker 1: Literally no, and that's why you are where you are.
[16:33] Speaker 2: Toay, a lot of people don't make it to be
[16:35] Speaker 2: where you are and to live life you live and
[16:37] Speaker 2: to be free and creative because they give up. Yeah,
[16:41] Speaker 2: and when people say, man, that just happened, No, it
[16:44] Speaker 2: didn't happen overnight.
[16:45] Speaker 1: It was twenty.
[16:46] Speaker 3: Years, twenty years, and yeah, it's rue. In those twenty years,
[16:50] Speaker 3: I made so many different choices. I made so many
[16:53] Speaker 3: different types of styles of music. I just allowed myself
[16:56] Speaker 3: to grow. Yeah, So when you hear me and you
[17:00] Speaker 3: hear my experiences musically, you looking like the maturation of
[17:03] Speaker 3: somebody who is in search of freedom, that's just living
[17:07] Speaker 3: through that once. I want to make sure that I
[17:10] Speaker 3: represent that when you hear it. So I use my
[17:12] Speaker 3: voice as an instrument. It's just an instrument. Sometimes I'm rapping,
[17:15] Speaker 3: sometimes I'm singing. Sometimes it sounds a little bit like
[17:18] Speaker 3: R and B, although I don't know much about R
[17:19] Speaker 3: and B. Sometimes it sounds like dance hall, although I'm
[17:22] Speaker 3: not overly intoxicated with dance hall at this present point
[17:26] Speaker 3: in my life. Sometimes it's country music, because I think
[17:28] Speaker 3: dance hall and country music is the same thing with
[17:30] Speaker 3: a different accent.
[17:32] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[17:32] Speaker 3: Yeah, basically I can hear for some reason, I think
[17:35] Speaker 3: I can hear the through line between when the letters
[17:39] Speaker 3: A connect to the letters F. I'm just making like
[17:42] Speaker 3: a strange comparison. I can hear how you can get
[17:45] Speaker 3: from A to F. I'm like, oh no, these things connect,
[17:48] Speaker 3: and that's why these relate. And I'm constantly playing and
[17:51] Speaker 3: evolving with sound and lyric and substance. So I'm honestly
[17:58] Speaker 3: you're watching honest experiments right when you hear the music.
[18:01] Speaker 3: So I'm genre diversion because I'm just honestly experimenting m.
[18:06] Speaker 1: Trying to find it.
[18:07] Speaker 2: Do you feel like you found your sound or do
[18:09] Speaker 2: you feel like it's always evolving?
[18:10] Speaker 3: It's always evolving. Yeah, I found my truth and in
[18:15] Speaker 3: my my truth is the core of my sound cause
[18:17] Speaker 3: I'm always just telling my story, right, So no matter
[18:21] Speaker 3: what it sounds like, I was giving this example. So
[18:25] Speaker 3: i could be making a horror film, or i could
[18:27] Speaker 3: be making an action movie, or i could be making
[18:29] Speaker 3: a rhym com, but I'm always believable because I'm telling
[18:34] Speaker 3: my truth within that.
[18:34] Speaker 1: Story where yes, yeah, yeah, I got you. That makes sense.
[18:38] Speaker 2: I love that you started off doing songwriting for people,
[18:42] Speaker 2: but then you stated I was having success. But who
[18:45] Speaker 2: wants to live their genes through someone else's eyes?
[18:48] Speaker 1: At what point?
[18:49] Speaker 2: What was that aha moment that no, I need to
[18:52] Speaker 2: be doing this for myself? Like what was that shift
[18:55] Speaker 2: or what were you in the studio when you're like, wait,
[18:57] Speaker 2: what am I?
[18:57] Speaker 1: What am I doing? Like when did you have that
[19:00] Speaker 1: at the moment where you're like, I didn't do this
[19:01] Speaker 1: for myself.
[19:02] Speaker 3: It was about there was two of them, so maybe three.
[19:05] Speaker 3: So this one time I was writing songs and it
[19:08] Speaker 3: was before I got any like significant placements. By placements,
[19:12] Speaker 3: I mean I'm any progress with any landing any songs
[19:14] Speaker 3: with any major artists, right. I remember I started songwriting
[19:19] Speaker 3: and it was maybe i'd say two years into like
[19:22] Speaker 3: really honing my craft and getting good, and I would
[19:25] Speaker 3: have meetings with A and r's or record executives, like
[19:28] Speaker 3: by the time I finally figured out how to be useful. Songwriting,
[19:33] Speaker 3: by the way, for me, was the first time in
[19:34] Speaker 3: my life that I was in service of someone, in
[19:37] Speaker 3: service of something else. It was the first time that
[19:39] Speaker 3: I came into a room and asked what could I
[19:41] Speaker 3: do for you, as opposed to asking for something that
[19:44] Speaker 3: I needed. And by virtue of asking other people what
[19:47] Speaker 3: I could do for them, it changed my life. It
[19:50] Speaker 3: opened my world its First of all, I sat me
[19:51] Speaker 3: down and humbled me. Me know, you're not as important
[19:54] Speaker 3: as you think you are. Shut up, going to the
[19:57] Speaker 3: back of the room. Listen, take criticism, take judgment, internalize it,
[20:04] Speaker 3: recycle it and become better, get great. It was like
[20:07] Speaker 3: training camp because most when you're an artist, you believe
[20:11] Speaker 3: you're right because you believe in yourself. When you become
[20:15] Speaker 3: in service of somebody else's art, you have to take criticism, critiques,
[20:19] Speaker 3: you have to take judgment, you have to you get
[20:22] Speaker 3: sharper because it's someone else's lens, someone else's vision. So
[20:26] Speaker 3: it's an incredible training course. So I remember going finally
[20:30] Speaker 3: having relationships enough to have meetings with A and r's
[20:32] Speaker 3: and I'm having these A and R meetings and having
[20:35] Speaker 3: these management meetings and I'm giving them my songs and
[20:37] Speaker 3: playing my songs, and maybe twenty four months into that, right,
[20:40] Speaker 3: because that's just one part of it, they started someone said, oh,
[20:46] Speaker 3: this is really good, this song is really good. I
[20:49] Speaker 3: was like, oh that meant I thought that that meant
[20:51] Speaker 3: something good. It's like but I can't take it. I
[20:53] Speaker 3: was like, well, you just said it's really good, Like
[20:56] Speaker 3: it sounds too much like you. And it took me
[21:01] Speaker 3: twelve months from that point to see the value in
[21:04] Speaker 3: that statement. That statement changed my life.
[21:06] Speaker 2: It sounds too much like so much like me, Like
[21:09] Speaker 2: that's it took.
[21:11] Speaker 3: Me twelve months ago. Oh oh oh I got it, Yes,
[21:17] Speaker 3: Oh I got it. Invisible, Yeah you hear me. You
[21:22] Speaker 3: can't even avoid me through the thing that I'm trying
[21:24] Speaker 3: to hide myself behind to be in service of somebody
[21:27] Speaker 3: else's MM.
[21:28] Speaker 1: That's powerful.
[21:29] Speaker 3: And that changed me. And then the first time i'd
[21:33] Speaker 3: written like, I got the Usher record and like I
[21:38] Speaker 3: guess a year or so it passed. I think s
[21:39] Speaker 3: there was a time period between the Usher record and
[21:41] Speaker 3: closed my SoC I remember correctly the Usher record and
[21:45] Speaker 3: in a song that I wrote called Roses, which was
[21:48] Speaker 3: intended for Beyonce. That's what that was the intended target,
[21:52] Speaker 3: cause I'm just songwriting at this point. I'm and my friends,
[21:55] Speaker 3: I'm and my producer. It was a friend of mine,
[21:57] Speaker 3: his name is Falling. I'm in his bedroom and Bush
[22:00] Speaker 3: and we're making these records in his bedroom. And they
[22:04] Speaker 3: were like, yo, Yo, whoever the A and R was
[22:06] Speaker 3: at the time, It's like yo, we need records, we
[22:08] Speaker 3: need ideas for me. And I was like, okay, cool,
[22:11] Speaker 3: I know what I want her to do. That's what
[22:13] Speaker 3: I was thinking as a fan. This is where I
[22:17] Speaker 3: want her to go next. This is unexplained territory. So
[22:21] Speaker 3: I wrote Roses, and it was in between writing Roses
[22:24] Speaker 3: and writing Crash for Usher and we sent roses in
[22:29] Speaker 3: and I think there was no response at first, and
[22:32] Speaker 3: then there was a response like, Nah, this isn't it
[22:35] Speaker 3: whatever it was, I'm butchering whatever the language that came back.
[22:41] Speaker 3: But I knew that I believe in the song so
[22:43] Speaker 3: much that I was clear. I was like, Oh, they
[22:45] Speaker 3: don't hear it. Yes, Oh they don't hear it. That
[22:49] Speaker 3: doesn't mean this isn't what I think it is. That
[22:51] Speaker 3: just means they don't hear it. There's nothing wrong with that.
[22:55] Speaker 3: And if I think this is what I think it is,
[22:58] Speaker 3: I go put it out. And I did that. I
[23:01] Speaker 3: think it was twenty sixteen when a conversation happened and
[23:04] Speaker 3: I put it out in twenty seventeen.
[23:06] Speaker 1: Wow, and it was phenomenal.
[23:08] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[23:09] Speaker 1: Do you feel like that's the song that changed everything?
[23:12] Speaker 3: I think a bunch of things changed my life, because
[23:14] Speaker 3: if I'd just put that song out in twenty seventeen
[23:17] Speaker 3: and sat down, nothing would.
[23:19] Speaker 1: Have happened, right, Yeah.
[23:21] Speaker 3: I think the fact that I put the song out,
[23:24] Speaker 3: went on tour when no one knew my name, when
[23:26] Speaker 3: no one cared about me, and I opened I was
[23:29] Speaker 3: first of four for work doing. I was opening for
[23:32] Speaker 3: Post Malone oh wow, the first of four. Look, you
[23:36] Speaker 3: don't gotta be in music, you don't gotta be in art,
[23:38] Speaker 3: you don't gotta be in fashioned. To be the first
[23:41] Speaker 3: of four for the headliner is a terrible position to
[23:46] Speaker 3: be in if you see.
[23:47] Speaker 1: It that way, if you see yeah, gotta see your perspective.
[23:50] Speaker 3: Yeah, I saw it as an opportunity. Good right. That
[23:53] Speaker 3: means he comes on, absolutely, he comes on at nine thirty,
[23:58] Speaker 3: doors open at seven, and I'm on it sevent ten.
[24:04] Speaker 3: And maybe the room at capacity is fifteen hundred people.
[24:07] Speaker 3: And by the time I start performing that maybe there's
[24:09] Speaker 3: eighty five people. Maybe there's one hundred and ten. Yeah,
[24:12] Speaker 3: And I'm just giving everything I got because those hundred
[24:15] Speaker 3: and ten people are going to know my name.
[24:17] Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.
[24:19] Speaker 3: I just moved my feet and did the work. I
[24:22] Speaker 3: just kept doing the work. Yeah, And that is what
[24:25] Speaker 3: changed my life. That's what allowed me to match the
[24:28] Speaker 3: energy of a song that I knew the world should hear.
[24:30] Speaker 3: So the song was before it's time, and I had
[24:33] Speaker 3: to catch up an energy. So the song went this
[24:35] Speaker 3: way and I had to go this way, So it
[24:36] Speaker 3: was waiting for me to match its energy.
[24:38] Speaker 1: I love it. I love I just love how life works.
[24:41] Speaker 1: In closing, I want to talk about a few things.
[24:45] Speaker 1: We want to be nosy.
[24:46] Speaker 2: Just do it all right, we'll start off easy first.
[24:49] Speaker 2: How do you maintain your work life balance.
[24:52] Speaker 3: I don't have a work life balance.
[24:53] Speaker 1: Heay, you just just whatever work is life is.
[24:56] Speaker 3: Yeah, it work is life. Yeah, I don't I feel Yeah.
[25:00] Speaker 3: I record in my living room because I don't want
[25:03] Speaker 3: it to be a separation between church and state. For me,
[25:07] Speaker 3: when I'm done working, I want to go to bed,
[25:11] Speaker 3: and when I wake up at peace, I want to
[25:12] Speaker 3: go to work and I need it to be fluid.
[25:16] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[25:17] Speaker 3: That's why I can tell my truth because I'm not
[25:19] Speaker 3: rehearsing anything. I'm not prepping anything to get to a place.
[25:23] Speaker 3: I remember when I was just getting started in the studio,
[25:25] Speaker 3: time was twenty dollars an hour, and I can only
[25:27] Speaker 3: be in a studio for an hour and a half
[25:28] Speaker 3: because I only save up thirty bucks. Yeah, I remember
[25:34] Speaker 3: that guy in the back of my head. So when
[25:36] Speaker 3: I finally got into a position where my home could
[25:38] Speaker 3: be my studio, I'm like, I want to be able
[25:39] Speaker 3: to work when the idea strikes me. I wake up
[25:43] Speaker 3: at eight o'clock and I'll be in a studio by
[25:45] Speaker 3: eighth nine. I do twenty five push ups and start recording,
[25:49] Speaker 3: and then knock on the door to wake up my engineer, Like, Louis.
[25:52] Speaker 1: Get up, I got something.
[25:54] Speaker 3: It's time.
[25:55] Speaker 1: I love it. I love that. Are you in a relationship?
[26:00] Speaker 3: Yeah you are?
[26:02] Speaker 1: Yeah? Okay yeah.
[26:05] Speaker 2: What is the DNA of the perfect mate for Saint John?
[26:10] Speaker 1: Like, how would you describe that person?
[26:13] Speaker 3: She has to be humble and bold, And I'm in
[26:17] Speaker 3: love with a hustler. I'm in love with somebody who
[26:21] Speaker 3: knows how to go and get it, figure it out.
[26:25] Speaker 3: I like a brilliant or even when it was a
[26:30] Speaker 3: brilliant dot dot dot dot dot. I'm a big fan
[26:36] Speaker 3: of a triple melanin girl, of a super chocolate one.
[26:39] Speaker 3: Love it. Yeah, of a brown skin queen.
[26:41] Speaker 1: I'm brownskin girl?
[26:43] Speaker 2: Is that the.
[26:45] Speaker 3: I love it? I love it.
[26:47] Speaker 1: Do you want children?
[26:49] Speaker 3: Wow? What a big question. I'm pausing because there's so
[26:53] Speaker 3: much that goes with that. It's not a simple thing.
[26:55] Speaker 3: It's not like, yo, I just want children. If you
[26:57] Speaker 3: want children, you're gonna have to figure out how to
[26:59] Speaker 3: feed them, how to love them, how to guard them,
[27:02] Speaker 3: how to provide for them. Mentally, how to safeguard their future,
[27:06] Speaker 3: how to craft a plan for them. Yes, despite the
[27:10] Speaker 3: plan you have for yourself, you're going to have to
[27:11] Speaker 3: figure out how two parallel lines work together even when
[27:14] Speaker 3: they separate sometimes. So Yeah, I'd love to have children,
[27:19] Speaker 3: but I need to be able to give them all
[27:20] Speaker 3: the things that I know that are important. Because now
[27:22] Speaker 3: I'm wiser than i've ever well. My mom had me.
[27:25] Speaker 3: She ain't know no better. My mom comes from ten
[27:28] Speaker 3: and she created four, and all of my brothers and
[27:31] Speaker 3: sisters have kids. And I'm thinking to myself, I held
[27:36] Speaker 3: out the longest side. I kept a good fight going right.
[27:41] Speaker 3: I did as much as I possibly could, and I
[27:44] Speaker 3: want to be it be a tragedy for me to
[27:47] Speaker 3: leave this planet and not let someone inherit all the
[27:50] Speaker 3: things that I learned intuitively, like stand as close to
[27:53] Speaker 3: me as possible and say, yo, look I got it
[27:55] Speaker 3: for you. I know how we're going to do this.
[27:57] Speaker 3: I'm gonna make this better for you. I got all
[27:59] Speaker 3: this love for you, all of these failures that I failed.
[28:02] Speaker 3: I can teach you, Yes, but I need to be
[28:05] Speaker 3: able to do it honestly and earnestly and with full
[28:09] Speaker 3: energy and attention, and I can't take a break from
[28:12] Speaker 3: the things that I love outside of my familial life.
[28:16] Speaker 3: So I have to figure out that juggle. So i'd
[28:20] Speaker 3: love to I'd love to be in a place where
[28:22] Speaker 3: I got there's a little one. I walk in here
[28:24] Speaker 3: and you're like, you're reading that book I gave you.
[28:28] Speaker 3: That'd be cool, But I gotta do it the right way.
[28:31] Speaker 3: It has to be done the right way or I'm
[28:32] Speaker 3: going to produce something that was as messed up as
[28:36] Speaker 3: I was. And I have to figure out how to
[28:38] Speaker 3: heal myself. And yeah, still I am. I'm still figuring
[28:41] Speaker 3: that out.
[28:41] Speaker 1: Yeah, I love it. Saint John, Thank you so much.
[28:44] Speaker 1: Thank you. Is there anything else I want to know?
[28:46] Speaker 2: What's next that you can tell our audience to how
[28:49] Speaker 2: it can support you in your future endeavors.
[28:51] Speaker 1: What's coming up?
[28:52] Speaker 3: I'm going on tour again. I'm really excited about that.
[28:55] Speaker 1: Okay, we gotta go. We gotta hit one, so I.
[28:59] Speaker 3: Start a season tour. Tour is my most honest version
[29:04] Speaker 3: of myself. I'm making a plane out the live about
[29:07] Speaker 3: who I am, what I am, and what I'm trying
[29:08] Speaker 3: to do, but on tour because it's just me and
[29:11] Speaker 3: a microphone and a captive audience. Yeah, and I don't
[29:15] Speaker 3: think I'm as creative as other people think I am.
[29:18] Speaker 3: So when I'm on that stage, I can't hide from you.
[29:21] Speaker 1: No, it's the most exposure, is it.
[29:24] Speaker 3: Yeah, it's me and you, seventy something minutes the lights
[29:27] Speaker 3: of either brighter moody. I can't be so clever that
[29:30] Speaker 3: I come up with all of this storyline. My memory
[29:32] Speaker 3: ain't even that good. I'll be forgetting my lyrics so
[29:34] Speaker 3: much less the nonsense I plan on saying. So I'm
[29:37] Speaker 3: either gonna give I gotta give you my truth. So
[29:38] Speaker 3: whatever it is, I'm giving my truth. So touring me
[29:42] Speaker 3: is the most vulnerable, open, unhinged me possible. So if
[29:47] Speaker 3: you really see that and you love that, then you
[29:49] Speaker 3: figured out a way to love me for who I am.
[29:51] Speaker 3: So I'm really excited to go back on tour. I
[29:53] Speaker 3: love it.
[29:54] Speaker 1: I cannot wait to come see you.
[29:55] Speaker 3: You're gonna love it.
[29:56] Speaker 1: I'm so excited.
[29:57] Speaker 3: I love it.
[29:58] Speaker 1: Well, anyway, we will definitely support you, sweeties.
[30:01] Speaker 2: Make sure you download his new album when it comes out,
[30:04] Speaker 2: and we will definitely catching one of your tour days.
[30:06] Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Seriously, you have been a joy.
[30:09] Speaker 1: I absolutely love your energy.
[30:11] Speaker 3: Thank you, thank you. I love yours too. This is
[30:13] Speaker 3: in congrats Sven, thank you. It's no small feet to
[30:17] Speaker 3: do anything consistently. Wow.
[30:20] Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you. I received that.
[30:22] Speaker 3: Thank you. It's a miracle for real. No, and it
[30:25] Speaker 3: looks good and it smelled good. The hallway smells good.
[30:27] Speaker 1: You know how hard that is, doesn't like?
[30:31] Speaker 3: Yeah? Yeah, I love it.
[30:33] Speaker 1: I love it. That's we are coming out with actually
[30:36] Speaker 1: some home candles. Oh, shameless plug, but I'll send you.
[30:39] Speaker 3: Line me up.
[30:40] Speaker 1: I got you, Yeah, I got you.
[30:41] Speaker 3: That's one of my next endeavors. Okayah, I love that?
[30:46] Speaker 3: Is it? Well, I'm not going to ask about this.
[30:48] Speaker 3: This is probably not yours. This is one of the
[30:50] Speaker 3: this is one of the joys. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I
[30:55] Speaker 3: need that.
[30:55] Speaker 1: I got you your big one.
[30:57] Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you, thank you for having me.
[31:00] Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, guys.
[31:06] Speaker 2: My episode with Saint John was more than I could
[31:09] Speaker 2: have ever imagined.
[31:10] Speaker 1: His energy, his spirit, his journey was so inspiring.
[31:14] Speaker 2: The one thing I took from him was when he
[31:16] Speaker 2: said that it was twenty years until he got his
[31:20] Speaker 2: first shot, and also he said it wasn't until he
[31:24] Speaker 2: was in service of others that he really learned everything
[31:28] Speaker 2: he needed to learn. So that's a note I think
[31:30] Speaker 2: we can all take is be of service to others. Wow,
[31:37] Speaker 2: what an amazing conversation with Saint John.
[31:40] Speaker 1: I hope you're leaving inspired as I am.
[31:43] Speaker 2: He's a true testament to staying authentic and working hard
[31:46] Speaker 2: and trusting the journey.
[31:48] Speaker 1: Thank you for tuning in to another.
[31:49] Speaker 2: Episode of the Keep It Positive Sweetish Show. Don't forget
[31:52] Speaker 2: to subscribe, leave a review, and share this episode with
[31:55] Speaker 2: someone that can use a little positivity. Follow me on
[31:58] Speaker 2: all platforms at love Just Fornee, and you can also
[32:01] Speaker 2: write into our positive Outcomes listener letter at keep It
[32:04] Speaker 2: Positive Sweetie at gmail dot com.
[32:07] Speaker 1: In the meantime, in between time, you know what to do.
[32:10] Speaker 1: Keep it positive, Sweeties,

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