# The Woman Behind the Armor

An episode of [Keep it Positive, Sweetie](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1689495115), 31 May 2026, 56 min.

Audio: https://pdrl.fm/1504e6/podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/44f61442-7ba4-4250-b406-b35901038504/31ef4404-fb3a-43d6-86e3-b45b0139b33f/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=2cfaa2b1-0f12-4656-aec3-b3590103850e

In this episode of Keep It Positive, Sweetie, Keisha Lance Bottoms opens up about the deeply personal journey behind her memoir The Rough Side of the Mountain. From childhood trauma and family secrets to faith, leadership, motherhood, body image, and reclaiming the parts of herself she once felt she had to hide, this conversation explores the humanity behind public strength. This episode is about healing, identity, authenticity, and what it means to finally show up as your whole self. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:00] Speaker 1: Calling all my sweeties to the forefront. I'm your host,
[0:03] Speaker 1: Christophane Hazel, and this is the keeping Positive, Sweetish show.
[0:10] Speaker 1: Welcome to keep it Posita, sweety, the place where we heal,
[0:12] Speaker 1: grow and learn together. Today's guest is someone people may
[0:16] Speaker 1: know through leadership, politics, and public service, but in this
[0:19] Speaker 1: conversation we meet the woman beneath it all. Through her
[0:23] Speaker 1: memoir The rop Side of the Mountain, she opens up
[0:25] Speaker 1: about family, shame, childhood, trauma, faith, motherhood, and parts of
[0:30] Speaker 1: herself she once felt she had to smooth over in
[0:33] Speaker 1: order to succeed. This isn't just a conversation about leadership.
[0:37] Speaker 1: It's a conversation about humanity, healing, and what it means
[0:41] Speaker 1: to finally show up as your whole self. I'm honored
[0:44] Speaker 1: to be sitting with Mayor Keisha Lance Bottoms. Before she
[0:49] Speaker 1: became Mayor of Atlanta, a national political voice, or a
[0:53] Speaker 1: leader through some of the country's most difficult moments, Keisha
[0:56] Speaker 1: Lance Bottoms was a little girl from Atlanta navigating family
[0:59] Speaker 1: seat It's a faith, grief and the pressure of becoming
[1:03] Speaker 1: strong too early, And in her book The Rough Side
[1:06] Speaker 1: of the Mountain, she tells that story with honesty, vulnerability
[1:10] Speaker 1: and grace, from childhood trauma to marriage, motherhood, leadership, and
[1:14] Speaker 1: reclaiming the parts of herself she once thought she had
[1:17] Speaker 1: to leave behind. This memoir is deeply personal and profoundly human.
[1:22] Speaker 1: Sweet please give a very warm welcome to Mayor Keisha
[1:25] Speaker 1: Lance Bottoms.
[1:26] Speaker 2: Thanks, no, thank you.
[1:29] Speaker 1: I'm so happy you're here today. I was so excited
[1:32] Speaker 1: when they said, would you be interested in interviewing Marrakish
[1:34] Speaker 1: Lance Spotoms, I'm like, what, First of all you calling me?
[1:38] Speaker 2: Yes?
[1:39] Speaker 3: Now, I am so honored because you know, I'm such
[1:41] Speaker 3: a fan the same not just of your work, but
[1:44] Speaker 3: you are just an incredible person. Thank you, and for
[1:47] Speaker 3: as beautiful as you are on the outside, it's your
[1:50] Speaker 3: inner beauty that shines most of all.
[1:53] Speaker 2: So I'm glad to be here.
[1:54] Speaker 1: Thank you so much. I know you are busy, busy, busy,
[1:56] Speaker 1: so the fact that she made time for us, we
[1:58] Speaker 1: really appreciate it. So excited. We're gonna get into your
[2:01] Speaker 1: new book, The Rough Side of the Mountain, but I
[2:04] Speaker 1: want to first open up with a quick game called
[2:07] Speaker 1: front Porch Stories. We're taking it back to little Keisha,
[2:09] Speaker 1: So I want you to think about the first memory
[2:12] Speaker 1: lesson of story that comes to mind when I give
[2:14] Speaker 1: a phrase. Okay, the first one is, what's the same
[2:17] Speaker 1: from your childhood that still lives in your.
[2:19] Speaker 3: Head, that still lives in my head?
[2:26] Speaker 2: You only have to tell the truth once.
[2:29] Speaker 1: That's good. Yeah, that's really good. What's a smell that
[2:32] Speaker 1: instantly takes you back home?
[2:36] Speaker 2: Smells of baking cakes?
[2:40] Speaker 1: We talked about cake today.
[2:42] Speaker 2: And fried chicken chicken fry.
[2:44] Speaker 1: Yeah, your mom owned her own salon. What was your
[2:48] Speaker 1: favorite style for her to do on your hair?
[2:50] Speaker 2: Ooh?
[2:51] Speaker 3: I used to rock an asymmetrically and it was stacked
[2:56] Speaker 3: on one side.
[2:58] Speaker 2: So and I see those picture is now online. I'm like, wait, are.
[3:02] Speaker 1: We back, honey? Yeah? Everything. I feel like everything repeats itself,
[3:05] Speaker 1: right right? Yeah? So for sure. The next one is
[3:10] Speaker 1: what is something your family did growing up that you
[3:13] Speaker 1: thought was normal until you got older.
[3:15] Speaker 3: Definitely traveling with my dad around the world. My dad
[3:19] Speaker 3: was an entertainer and wherever he went, we want.
[3:24] Speaker 1: That's amazing.
[3:25] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[3:26] Speaker 1: Who taught you the most about faith without preaching to you?
[3:29] Speaker 2: My grandmother for sure. Yeah.
[3:31] Speaker 1: I love that. Strength used to mean this, but now
[3:35] Speaker 1: it means blank.
[3:36] Speaker 3: Oh. I'm so grateful to have learned the difference between
[3:40] Speaker 3: being powerful and being strong. So strength used to mean
[3:44] Speaker 3: being strong. I now know it means being powerful.
[3:47] Speaker 2: That's good.
[3:48] Speaker 1: I love that. Thanks for playing along.
[3:50] Speaker 2: Thank you.
[3:50] Speaker 1: I love that. So You've written this book and it
[3:53] Speaker 1: really feels like a collection of lessons, memories and pieces
[3:56] Speaker 1: that really shaped who you are today. With writing this book,
[3:59] Speaker 1: I want to ask you, was this more about telling
[4:02] Speaker 1: a story or about meeting Keisha again?
[4:05] Speaker 2: It was both.
[4:07] Speaker 3: When I started this book, I left being Mayor of Atlanta.
[4:13] Speaker 3: I wasn't thinking about running for office again. So it
[4:16] Speaker 3: really is the purest form of the story that I
[4:19] Speaker 3: could have told, because I didn't do it in the
[4:22] Speaker 3: lens of some political opinions about.
[4:26] Speaker 2: How it was written.
[4:28] Speaker 3: It is very different than I initially envisioned it. I
[4:32] Speaker 3: was going to write these series of essays called lessons
[4:35] Speaker 3: my Mama told me, Things my Mama said, or something
[4:39] Speaker 3: like that. And as I began to get put pen
[4:42] Speaker 3: to paper, my teen essentially say, you have an incredible
[4:47] Speaker 3: story and you should tell it. And it was a
[4:50] Speaker 3: love letter to my family, to my community, and I'm
[4:54] Speaker 3: just I'm so proud of it. And when I finished it,
[4:57] Speaker 3: I said, if nobody else reads this, but my family
[5:00] Speaker 3: makes them proud.
[5:01] Speaker 2: That will be enough.
[5:02] Speaker 1: Yeah, No, I'm you made a lot of people proud,
[5:05] Speaker 1: so yes, we're all proud of you. You open up
[5:08] Speaker 1: with the gospel song rough Side of the Mountain. I
[5:10] Speaker 1: remember hearing that song when I was a kid, and
[5:13] Speaker 1: you connected to the idea that the rough side gives
[5:16] Speaker 1: you something to hold on.
[5:17] Speaker 2: That's all right.
[5:18] Speaker 1: I want to know when you look back, what did
[5:20] Speaker 1: the rough side teach you that the smooth side could
[5:22] Speaker 1: have never taught you.
[5:24] Speaker 3: Oh wow, So so when you asked a question about
[5:27] Speaker 3: smells and things, that's all from my grandmother's kitchen. Yeah,
[5:31] Speaker 3: and she used to have this radio in her kitchen
[5:33] Speaker 3: or either on TV. We see the commercial of the
[5:35] Speaker 3: rough Side of the Mountain, and that tunea is always
[5:38] Speaker 3: in our heads.
[5:39] Speaker 2: But I didn't have an appreciation for it.
[5:41] Speaker 3: But I opened the book by talking about coming home
[5:44] Speaker 3: from school and seeing my dad being led away in handcuffs,
[5:48] Speaker 3: and this extraordinary life where we traveled the world in
[5:52] Speaker 3: an instant, was taken away. And my grandmother used to
[5:57] Speaker 3: always say, all things work for the good of those
[6:00] Speaker 3: who love the Lord. And I didn't see it then
[6:04] Speaker 3: that these challenges is replacing ballet lessons with visiting my
[6:10] Speaker 3: dad in prison, watching my mom struggle as a single mother,
[6:15] Speaker 3: having this life of luxury removed literally in an instant,
[6:23] Speaker 3: I didn't realize how resilient and how strong.
[6:26] Speaker 2: It was making me.
[6:28] Speaker 1: Yeah, as a kid.
[6:30] Speaker 3: Yeah, And so much of who I am today is
[6:34] Speaker 3: because of that. Not that I would wish that on
[6:37] Speaker 3: our family at all, but I know it's given me compassion.
[6:41] Speaker 3: I know it's given me courage, and it's given me
[6:46] Speaker 3: an ability to see things from a different lens than
[6:50] Speaker 3: a lot of other people do because I've lived it.
[6:53] Speaker 1: Literally. Yeah, and I do believe that the levels that
[6:57] Speaker 1: you have climbed. I believe that that empathy has allowed
[7:01] Speaker 1: you to see from a lens that a lot of
[7:02] Speaker 1: people in your position would never see from because they
[7:04] Speaker 1: haven't experienced that. So that is that's incredible.
[7:07] Speaker 3: I know what a prison smells like, I know what
[7:11] Speaker 3: it looks like. I know what it's like to have
[7:15] Speaker 3: to take that bucket of water home from the hair
[7:18] Speaker 3: salon to flesh to toilet because the waters off, you know.
[7:21] Speaker 3: And these are things that so many people experience on
[7:25] Speaker 3: a daily basis, but for so many of us, they
[7:27] Speaker 3: see us as we are and not who we have been.
[7:31] Speaker 2: Yes, and they don't.
[7:33] Speaker 1: Still stay with you.
[7:34] Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right, that's right.
[7:35] Speaker 1: I love that was there a time where you tried
[7:38] Speaker 1: to detour the mountain and not take the hard route
[7:41] Speaker 1: every chance I got.
[7:43] Speaker 2: And for me, I was always a hard worker.
[7:47] Speaker 3: I always wanted to do my best because I didn't
[7:50] Speaker 3: want to have to struggle the way that I saw
[7:53] Speaker 3: my parents have to struggle. But it also meant wearing
[7:58] Speaker 3: that mask that Paul Lawrence dumb talks about.
[8:00] Speaker 2: We wear the mask that grans and lies.
[8:03] Speaker 3: So I wanted people to think, oh, no, I woke
[8:06] Speaker 3: up just like this, this is how I've always been,
[8:09] Speaker 3: And no, you know, I don't understand all of that.
[8:13] Speaker 3: I've never been there. But you realize at some point
[8:15] Speaker 3: one wearing that mask is exhausting because it takes a
[8:19] Speaker 3: lot of energy to put on airs. And then I'm
[8:23] Speaker 3: very grateful to have come to the full circle realization
[8:27] Speaker 3: that everything I am is because of everybody who I
[8:30] Speaker 3: came from and everything that they went through.
[8:33] Speaker 2: Yes, so it makes me proud.
[8:35] Speaker 3: Right, And even though my grandparents aren't here, my dad
[8:40] Speaker 3: is not here, you know, I just hope that they
[8:45] Speaker 3: are smiling down and they are proud to my mom.
[8:48] Speaker 3: I was with my mom yesterday and she's like, Oh,
[8:51] Speaker 3: I'm on the part of your book where such and
[8:53] Speaker 3: such happens. I'm like, how many times have you read
[8:55] Speaker 3: the book? And this is probably her knife time reading
[8:59] Speaker 3: that and she says each time she sees something different
[9:04] Speaker 3: and she still cries.
[9:05] Speaker 1: When she reads it. Wow, your mom. First of all,
[9:07] Speaker 1: I just love her. She is the best. I met
[9:10] Speaker 1: her at an event think was last year, and she's
[9:13] Speaker 1: so sweet.
[9:14] Speaker 2: Thank you.
[9:15] Speaker 1: She is a rock star. You talked about your father
[9:18] Speaker 1: being arrested. You were eight years old. Yep, this was
[9:22] Speaker 1: a moment everything shifted. Yes, I want to know at
[9:25] Speaker 1: that age, how are you dealing with that emotionally?
[9:30] Speaker 2: Well.
[9:30] Speaker 3: First of all, my dad was an extraordinary human being
[9:33] Speaker 3: who was a wonderful man who loved his family deeply.
[9:39] Speaker 3: My dad struggled with addiction. I later learned. I didn't
[9:42] Speaker 3: know it at that time, and my mom even told me.
[9:44] Speaker 3: He said to her once, when they were at the
[9:49] Speaker 3: height of their entertainment status, they would give them something
[9:55] Speaker 3: to stay up at night, and they would give them
[9:57] Speaker 3: something to sleep at night and give them something.
[10:00] Speaker 2: To wake up in the morning WHOA.
[10:02] Speaker 3: So, you know, and for too many entertainers that that's
[10:07] Speaker 3: a story, especially of that generation.
[10:10] Speaker 1: We've seen it. I mean we didn't live it, but
[10:11] Speaker 1: we saw it in movies. I'm like, wow, that was
[10:14] Speaker 1: very common.
[10:17] Speaker 3: And so, you know, So I write about his incarceration,
[10:21] Speaker 3: his selling drugs when his career began to wane, and
[10:27] Speaker 3: not knowing how else to make ends meet in his
[10:31] Speaker 3: struggles with addiction, and you know, for so many people,
[10:35] Speaker 3: I say in the book, a sentence for him was
[10:40] Speaker 3: a sentence for us to write, because everything changed for
[10:44] Speaker 3: us in that moment. And it's you know, it's life
[10:49] Speaker 3: altering in so many ways. My parents divorced while my
[10:52] Speaker 3: dad was in prison. But also this lesson that sometimes
[10:56] Speaker 3: really good people make bad mistakes, and it's not because
[11:00] Speaker 3: they don't love you. It's just because in that moment
[11:05] Speaker 3: they just can't find the power to do any better. Yes,
[11:09] Speaker 3: And so there were so many lessons for me in
[11:13] Speaker 3: that learning to forgive my dad, learning to give him grace.
[11:19] Speaker 1: Learning did you learn that because as a child, were
[11:21] Speaker 1: you harboring certain feeling him.
[11:24] Speaker 3: My gosh, I internalize so much writing in the book
[11:29] Speaker 3: about experiencing my eating disorders what I now know is
[11:34] Speaker 3: called depression and anxiety and feeling like you had to
[11:38] Speaker 3: walk out the house every day with that mask on.
[11:41] Speaker 3: Because I grew up in the household where it was
[11:43] Speaker 3: what goes on in this house stays in this I think.
[11:45] Speaker 1: That's every black household. That's the same way.
[11:47] Speaker 3: You better not go out telling our business, and you
[11:50] Speaker 3: better walk out that door looking like everything is okay.
[11:53] Speaker 1: It's stifling and it's debilitating.
[11:55] Speaker 3: Yea. And at eight years old especially, yeah, that you
[12:01] Speaker 3: have to walk out the house and look like everything's
[12:03] Speaker 3: okay when really everything is falling apart.
[12:06] Speaker 1: Right. We talk about when children experienced chalma very early on.
[12:12] Speaker 1: Do you think that that was the beginning of becoming
[12:15] Speaker 1: the strong one in your family that you still are
[12:17] Speaker 1: today in.
[12:18] Speaker 2: A healthy and unhealthy way?
[12:20] Speaker 3: Because I never wanted to be the problem, which meant
[12:24] Speaker 3: I didn't always share my problems, didn't share my feelings,
[12:30] Speaker 3: but also feeling like I had to be responsible for everybody,
[12:34] Speaker 3: and that's a heavy burden for a child.
[12:37] Speaker 2: And it's not that anybody put it on me.
[12:39] Speaker 3: I put it on myself, and it began to manifest
[12:45] Speaker 3: itself in my life. I write about my fibroids and
[12:50] Speaker 3: having these fibroids that were described as my uterus being
[12:55] Speaker 3: the size of a four to six month pregnancy, these
[13:00] Speaker 3: debilitating fibroids that had a lot to do with my
[13:04] Speaker 3: inability to carry a child. And you know, fibroids are
[13:10] Speaker 3: often associated with Black women. Yes, they are described as
[13:14] Speaker 3: bundles of stress.
[13:16] Speaker 1: Isn't that crazy that we're the ones that you mainly
[13:19] Speaker 1: see it in?
[13:20] Speaker 3: That's right, because it's believed that that we're carrying all
[13:23] Speaker 3: that stress in this one place. So I unpacked a
[13:27] Speaker 3: whole lot in this book, write about my fertility journey. Yes,
[13:32] Speaker 3: the probably more than a dozen surgeries, I say, probably
[13:37] Speaker 3: because I lost Count Jesus at some point, ultimately having
[13:42] Speaker 3: a partial hysterectomy, making the decision to adopt children, and
[13:48] Speaker 3: just the unhealthy ways in which I internalize stress.
[13:54] Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, No, it's really tough. One thing this book
[13:57] Speaker 1: does you. Honestly, we talk about what happens in the
[13:59] Speaker 1: house you hold onto, the secrets and the misplaced shame.
[14:03] Speaker 1: I want to know, at what point did you realize
[14:05] Speaker 1: that you were carrying shame that was never meant for
[14:07] Speaker 1: you to carry.
[14:10] Speaker 3: You know, I don't know that there was a single
[14:12] Speaker 3: moment that I realized that it just became too.
[14:16] Speaker 2: Heavy to carry.
[14:17] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[14:18] Speaker 3: Yeah, And for me, it was speaking that allowed, which
[14:22] Speaker 3: was not until I ran for mayor of Atlanta. Yeah,
[14:25] Speaker 3: and realizing that so many people had a misconception of me,
[14:31] Speaker 3: And a lot of that was about hiding, hiding who
[14:35] Speaker 3: I was, yes.
[14:37] Speaker 1: And meaning.
[14:40] Speaker 3: You know people saying, oh you're aloof well that's often.
[14:44] Speaker 2: Just a guard.
[14:45] Speaker 3: That's a guard for insecurity, right, feeling like you got
[14:49] Speaker 3: to walk in the room and oh.
[14:50] Speaker 2: Let me let them not really see who I am
[14:54] Speaker 2: and what I am because they may not like me.
[14:57] Speaker 1: Wow.
[14:59] Speaker 3: And once I began to tell my story publicly, I
[15:03] Speaker 3: was stunned how much.
[15:06] Speaker 2: Relief I felt. Yeah, it's like just shedding pounds of
[15:11] Speaker 2: weight and baggage.
[15:13] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[15:13] Speaker 1: And I'm sure and that you also probably found people that, like, man,
[15:15] Speaker 1: I thought I was alone in this. I'm going through
[15:17] Speaker 1: the same thing, let me tell you.
[15:19] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[15:19] Speaker 3: I never knew so many people's hears had struggled with addiction,
[15:24] Speaker 3: struggle financially, had gone to prison. So many people would
[15:29] Speaker 3: come to me and share their stories. First time I
[15:32] Speaker 3: ever publicly talked about second time I was at an
[15:36] Speaker 3: elementary school and a parent came to me and she
[15:41] Speaker 3: told me her daughter's father had just gone to prison,
[15:45] Speaker 3: and this little girl was like the star student of
[15:48] Speaker 3: the class, and she just had tears in her eyes.
[15:50] Speaker 3: She said, you don't know how much it meant for
[15:53] Speaker 3: her to hear you say that.
[15:54] Speaker 2: And the little girl just came and she just wrapped
[15:56] Speaker 2: her arms around me and say it work.
[16:00] Speaker 1: She she didn't have to, Yeah, she didn't. That's what
[16:05] Speaker 1: this platform is about. It's about sharing stories so that
[16:08] Speaker 1: people can feel seen, because a lot of times people
[16:10] Speaker 1: don't have the voice or feel like they have a
[16:13] Speaker 1: right to speak up about how they're feeling. Yeah, these
[16:15] Speaker 1: conversations help people feel seen. So I love that you
[16:18] Speaker 1: are opening up sharing your truth because there are so
[16:20] Speaker 1: many little girls that will hear your assortment, like, oh
[16:23] Speaker 1: my gosh, I thought it was just me, you know. Yeah,
[16:25] Speaker 1: So I love that we're able to open up about this.
[16:28] Speaker 3: Yeah, because I have write about the neighbor who used
[16:31] Speaker 3: to inappropriately touch me. Yeah, and again not wanting to
[16:35] Speaker 3: be the problem, never telling anybody, And how many children
[16:40] Speaker 3: are afraid to speak up, right, and they carry that
[16:44] Speaker 3: shame they do.
[16:46] Speaker 1: Yeah, so many you open up about you talked about
[16:49] Speaker 1: anorexia and struggling with bolimia. People look at you and
[16:53] Speaker 1: you're like, she's this successful woman, she's confident, she's got
[16:56] Speaker 1: everything going for herself. What's the danger in becoming so
[16:59] Speaker 1: good at high that nobody can even recognize when you're hurting?
[17:03] Speaker 2: Oh, so many dangers there.
[17:05] Speaker 3: Because you are, you feel as if you're the only
[17:08] Speaker 3: one and you're struggling alone. And I'm right about telling,
[17:12] Speaker 3: in separate occasions, my mom and who's now my husband
[17:16] Speaker 3: and my boyfriend about that I'd never told anybody, and
[17:20] Speaker 3: they were both like, well, that's stupid, you do what now,
[17:25] Speaker 3: and then just shutting up about it and not speaking
[17:28] Speaker 3: about it again. And I laugh about it because they
[17:32] Speaker 3: love me more than anybody on the planet. But for
[17:38] Speaker 3: black families, this concept of somebody struggling with an eating
[17:44] Speaker 3: disorder and eating disorder is about so much more than weight.
[17:50] Speaker 2: It's about control.
[17:53] Speaker 1: It is.
[17:56] Speaker 3: Those things you can control and those things you can't control.
[18:00] Speaker 3: Body image is a part of it, but for me,
[18:03] Speaker 3: that was the thing I could control control.
[18:06] Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, how old were you when you started
[18:10] Speaker 1: struggling with this.
[18:11] Speaker 3: I was probably twelve or thirteen and it went on
[18:16] Speaker 3: on and off, probably through my sophomore year of college.
[18:21] Speaker 1: Wow. Yeah, I've had friends. I never struggle with that
[18:26] Speaker 1: because I just like to eat all the time. But
[18:29] Speaker 1: I never turned down the plate. But I had friends
[18:32] Speaker 1: who did struggle with that. And I couldn't like your
[18:34] Speaker 1: mom and your husband at her boyfriend. At the time,
[18:37] Speaker 1: I couldn't wrap my mom, like why would you do that?
[18:40] Speaker 1: But now that you break it down, and for anybody
[18:43] Speaker 1: else who's dealing with this, now this is a better
[18:44] Speaker 1: way to put some language behind it and understand these
[18:47] Speaker 1: maybe the reasons why you're doing this, so you can
[18:49] Speaker 1: actually get ahead of it. Because I couldn't understand that age,
[18:52] Speaker 1: like why would you do that?
[18:53] Speaker 3: And even connecting that, having my therapist helped me connect
[18:57] Speaker 3: it to the neighbor who used to enter touched me
[19:01] Speaker 3: and my shame of my body because that was very curvy,
[19:05] Speaker 3: very young, and I had never connected those dots and
[19:10] Speaker 3: I never thought that. I thought I had moved on
[19:13] Speaker 3: from that too, But we realized when we don't resolve issues,
[19:18] Speaker 3: when we just keep packing them away. Yeah, you know,
[19:21] Speaker 3: it's like packing a refrigerator with some food. At some
[19:25] Speaker 3: point it's going to start to stink and spoil.
[19:27] Speaker 1: Oh that's a good analogy.
[19:29] Speaker 3: Yeah, And that's what happens when when you pack your
[19:32] Speaker 3: issues away and you don't deal with them, at some
[19:34] Speaker 3: point they start to rot.
[19:37] Speaker 1: Absolutely. Do you think that high achieving women have become
[19:41] Speaker 1: experts at performing strength because that's what they feel like
[19:44] Speaker 1: everyone expects of them.
[19:46] Speaker 3: Let me tell you about my therapist, and I've been
[19:50] Speaker 3: quoting her so much publicly, i need to put it
[19:54] Speaker 3: on a T shirt. Doctor Rosa Turner Ash said there's
[19:59] Speaker 3: a difference between being strong and being powerful. Strong women
[20:05] Speaker 3: pushed through, they have heart attacks, they have strokes, they
[20:08] Speaker 3: have high blood pressure, and they die.
[20:12] Speaker 2: Powerful women stop.
[20:15] Speaker 3: They feel, they process, they learn the lesson, and then
[20:20] Speaker 3: and only then do they move on. So many of
[20:24] Speaker 3: us are strong. So for me it was this is
[20:28] Speaker 3: what women in my life do. They put on the
[20:31] Speaker 3: clothes and the hair's done, and they just keep going
[20:35] Speaker 3: no matter what. They don't process, they don't feel, and
[20:41] Speaker 3: learning the difference has just been so empowering for me recently,
[20:49] Speaker 3: like so many women. We talk about these three hundred
[20:52] Speaker 3: thousand black women who've lost their jobs. Well, for people
[20:56] Speaker 3: like me who are self employed, contracts or everything I
[20:59] Speaker 3: recently lost.
[21:00] Speaker 2: Really big contract.
[21:01] Speaker 3: So my first inclination was, girl, you're gonna be all right,
[21:06] Speaker 3: don't even think about that, just keep moving. And then
[21:09] Speaker 3: I stopped, and I'm like like, hold on, this is
[21:12] Speaker 3: messed up. Yeah, and this is scary and this doesn't
[21:16] Speaker 3: feel great. Yeah, So let me processes, let me allow
[21:22] Speaker 3: myself to be in my feelings and then move on.
[21:25] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[21:25] Speaker 2: And surprisingly it didn't even take me a day.
[21:28] Speaker 3: But I had to pat myself on the back for
[21:31] Speaker 3: having my pity party.
[21:32] Speaker 1: Yes, because you don't give yourself the grace that I
[21:34] Speaker 1: have one.
[21:34] Speaker 3: Never allowed myself to have pity parties, but I had
[21:37] Speaker 3: one that day.
[21:38] Speaker 2: Good and I felt powerful.
[21:40] Speaker 1: Yes, I love that. Yeah, And I feel like more
[21:44] Speaker 1: women should take the time to do that because we
[21:45] Speaker 1: are We're like I gotta keep pushing, I gotta keep
[21:47] Speaker 1: going out like nobody cares. That's the thought that keeps
[21:51] Speaker 1: bringing in our head. We just got to keep.
[21:52] Speaker 2: Going, that's right.
[21:53] Speaker 1: Yeah. I want to know for the people that are listening,
[21:56] Speaker 1: who are carrying shame or pain or trauma from their past,
[22:00] Speaker 1: who have finally been able to separate what happened to
[22:02] Speaker 1: them from who they are. Because a lot of times
[22:05] Speaker 1: people they kind of get stuck in what happened to them.
[22:09] Speaker 1: What is there something that you could say to them
[22:11] Speaker 1: who are trying to separate from what happened to who
[22:13] Speaker 1: they actually are.
[22:15] Speaker 3: You know, there are so many things that we internalize
[22:18] Speaker 3: as if it's our fault, separate the two, even when
[22:22] Speaker 3: it is your fault, even when it is a self
[22:24] Speaker 3: inflicted move. For me, I think about the grace that
[22:28] Speaker 3: God gives to me. So if God offers me grace,
[22:32] Speaker 3: and I believe in my faith that He forgives me,
[22:34] Speaker 3: then why would I forgive myself? And I'm constantly saying
[22:39] Speaker 3: to myself, a girl that's done. Now, Yeah, in this
[22:43] Speaker 3: powerful season, I know, I got to process it and
[22:45] Speaker 3: I got to learn to feel I've got to feel it. Yeah,
[22:50] Speaker 3: But I'm like, girl that's done. Forgive yourself and move on.
[22:53] Speaker 3: And I would just say that to anyone that same
[22:58] Speaker 3: grace said. If you are a person of faith, you
[23:00] Speaker 3: believe God shows you the same grace that you would
[23:03] Speaker 3: show your neighbor, yes, or family member. It's okay to
[23:06] Speaker 3: show it to yourself. And for some people it may
[23:09] Speaker 3: be writing it down in a book, sharing it with others.
[23:14] Speaker 3: For some it just may be that conversation with yourself
[23:18] Speaker 3: on forgiving yourself.
[23:20] Speaker 2: Absolutely being kind to yourself right.
[23:23] Speaker 1: No, for sure. In the book, you talk about sanding
[23:26] Speaker 1: yourself down and are standing parts of yourself down. And
[23:30] Speaker 1: I feel like a lot of people in the public
[23:32] Speaker 1: eye do this and sometimes they don't even realize they're
[23:35] Speaker 1: doing it, where it's like I'm dimming my light in
[23:37] Speaker 1: certain areas because I'm too afraid. I want to ask you,
[23:40] Speaker 1: at what point did you realize that success had started
[23:43] Speaker 1: costing pieces of who you really are?
[23:46] Speaker 2: You know?
[23:47] Speaker 3: I take a lot back to running from Mayor because
[23:49] Speaker 3: I was so exposed in so many ways, subject to
[23:54] Speaker 3: so much for scrutiny and having to explain so much
[24:00] Speaker 3: much of who I was and what motivated me to
[24:03] Speaker 3: do what I did.
[24:08] Speaker 2: But I was always aware of what.
[24:11] Speaker 3: We now call imposter syndrome, walking in the rooms, going
[24:18] Speaker 3: am I really good enough?
[24:20] Speaker 1: Like?
[24:20] Speaker 2: And these are things I'm saying to myself.
[24:22] Speaker 3: Never mind I was invited into the room, right, never
[24:25] Speaker 3: mind that they.
[24:26] Speaker 2: Thought I was good enough. I'm my girl, This jig
[24:29] Speaker 2: is gonna be up. You're gonna see that you really
[24:32] Speaker 2: shouldn't be in this room.
[24:35] Speaker 3: So it's it was more of a at different times,
[24:40] Speaker 3: recognizing the standing down, but then at some point just
[24:48] Speaker 3: saying that, and again I go back to telling my story,
[24:52] Speaker 3: saying like wait a minute, like you know, I'm I.
[24:58] Speaker 2: Am all that, and it's okay to be all that.
[25:00] Speaker 2: That means that I'm.
[25:01] Speaker 3: Perfect, right, but it means that I'm just as qualified,
[25:05] Speaker 3: I'm just as powerful. And if I have to dim
[25:10] Speaker 3: my light for you to feel better, that's something that's
[25:12] Speaker 3: wrong with you, not with me exactly.
[25:16] Speaker 1: That's good for you. I'm glad you got to that point.
[25:18] Speaker 3: And saying also, just lastly, purging friendships that require you
[25:23] Speaker 3: to dim your light too, because that's something we all
[25:27] Speaker 3: have to. You know, our good friend taller. Everybody can't
[25:31] Speaker 3: go where you're going. And that doesn't mean that that
[25:34] Speaker 3: it's because you think you're better than somebody else that
[25:37] Speaker 3: still have friends from kindergarten right in my life, but
[25:41] Speaker 3: it means that when when your purpose no longer lines, Yeah,
[25:45] Speaker 3: sometimes sometimes you have to love people from a farm
[25:49] Speaker 3: for sure.
[25:50] Speaker 1: Yeah, and I've had that. I actually had a season
[25:53] Speaker 1: of this podcast where we talked about purging season where
[25:56] Speaker 1: I just felt like God was literally like pruning my
[25:58] Speaker 1: entire life is a really to season to navigate, and
[26:01] Speaker 1: I was just like, goodness, Lord, like, do I have
[26:04] Speaker 1: to go through this? But it was it was for
[26:06] Speaker 1: the good, you know, and not all that lasts forever,
[26:09] Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. Sometimes you just need a
[26:10] Speaker 1: separation so that we can both grow mature. But some
[26:13] Speaker 1: people do they can't handle the altitude in which it's going. Yeah, yeah,
[26:18] Speaker 1: so that's good. That's definitely something that I had to
[26:22] Speaker 1: go through. When you look back at yourself from this perspective, now,
[26:27] Speaker 1: what are some things that you feel like you were
[26:29] Speaker 1: hiding or trying to stand down because you were struggling
[26:32] Speaker 1: with the imposter syndrome.
[26:34] Speaker 3: Not wanting people to know my struggles was one one thing.
[26:39] Speaker 3: Not people not wanting people to know that I struggle
[26:43] Speaker 3: internally was another thing. And just you know, when when
[26:49] Speaker 3: you are often the first For me in my family,
[26:55] Speaker 3: I come from a family of self made people, smartest
[26:59] Speaker 3: people ever known. But when you go and you get
[27:03] Speaker 3: that degree and you get that advanced degree, you're around
[27:06] Speaker 3: another group of people You're like, oh, okay, you know
[27:11] Speaker 3: their backgrounds a little different from mine. Yeah, so I'm
[27:16] Speaker 3: not always telling the story of my people. Yeah, because
[27:21] Speaker 3: maybe I don't feel like this piece of the puzzle
[27:23] Speaker 3: fits in this room, but again recognizing that's their.
[27:28] Speaker 2: Problem, not my problem.
[27:30] Speaker 3: Yeah, because my people were some strong, resilient people who
[27:37] Speaker 3: made a way out of no way when they didn't
[27:41] Speaker 3: have money passed down, they didn't have a formal education,
[27:46] Speaker 3: and they still figured it out and they did it
[27:48] Speaker 3: with common sense, and they did it with hard work,
[27:51] Speaker 3: and they did.
[27:51] Speaker 2: It with faith.
[27:52] Speaker 1: Right, that's so good. I love that Black women, especially
[27:57] Speaker 1: when it comes to climbing the corporate ladder or being
[27:59] Speaker 1: the first these rooms. Do you feel like we feel
[28:02] Speaker 1: like we have to be more polished, more educated, and
[28:05] Speaker 1: everything's even accepted in those rooms? And why is that?
[28:08] Speaker 1: I feel like there's always like a double standard when
[28:11] Speaker 1: it comes to us.
[28:12] Speaker 3: Well, there is a double standard. There is a double standard.
[28:16] Speaker 3: So I don't think that's all self imposed. But what
[28:20] Speaker 3: I find, and we've seen studies that talk about men
[28:23] Speaker 3: entering rooms or even applying for jobs, they can feel
[28:27] Speaker 3: like they are twenty five forty percent qualified and they're like,
[28:31] Speaker 3: I'm going forward right, and we feel like we got
[28:34] Speaker 3: to check all the boxes crossed, all the t's dot,
[28:37] Speaker 3: all the eyes to even present ourselves as a candidate,
[28:42] Speaker 3: So part of it is self imposed, but there is
[28:44] Speaker 3: this extra burden that's placed upon us that we can
[28:49] Speaker 3: come with all the credentials, that we can come with
[28:51] Speaker 3: all the experience, and we still have to explain ourselves
[28:55] Speaker 3: and justify ourselves and sometimes even answer to people who
[29:00] Speaker 3: we know aren't near less qualified as we are.
[29:03] Speaker 1: Right, yeah, no, I've definitely seen that happen before. I
[29:07] Speaker 1: want to talk about your motherhood journey. You talk about IVF,
[29:10] Speaker 1: You talked about the fibroids, which is something even I'm
[29:14] Speaker 1: forty three now. Last year I went to the fertility
[29:18] Speaker 1: doctor just to even see if I could have children,
[29:21] Speaker 1: because I hadn't been trying, but I was like, let
[29:23] Speaker 1: me just see if I can even have kids, if
[29:25] Speaker 1: I should try to freeze my eggs or what the
[29:26] Speaker 1: case may be. Found out I had fibroids as well,
[29:30] Speaker 1: and she's like, right now, it doesn't like there's any
[29:32] Speaker 1: inside your uterus. We would have to do another procedure
[29:34] Speaker 1: just to go inside and look around to make sure
[29:35] Speaker 1: you're okay, because if you do want to do IVF
[29:38] Speaker 1: and freeze your eggs, then we need to go in
[29:41] Speaker 1: and get those fibroids out of your uterus before we
[29:43] Speaker 1: can actually plant one inside you. And I was like,
[29:46] Speaker 1: all this stuff we got to think about. Yeah, you know,
[29:48] Speaker 1: as a woman who has gone through that, you talk
[29:51] Speaker 1: about losing count of the surgeries you had to have
[29:54] Speaker 1: take us on that journey. And I know there's so
[29:56] Speaker 1: many women that struggle with that. You know, I was
[29:58] Speaker 1: struggling with and had no idea. I was struggling with
[29:59] Speaker 1: it because that's not something you find out just going
[30:02] Speaker 1: to get a passmear No, it's not right.
[30:05] Speaker 3: Yeah, So for me, and this was late nineteen nineties,
[30:10] Speaker 3: early two thousand, so even freezing eggs won a common
[30:14] Speaker 3: thing then, So I knew that I had fibroids. I
[30:19] Speaker 3: had a surgery before, like I'd had assist on my ovary,
[30:23] Speaker 3: so I had a few minor things. But once my
[30:26] Speaker 3: husband and I started trying, and I write about having
[30:31] Speaker 3: this exploratory surgery that then led to the scar tissue
[30:36] Speaker 3: that then led to this other condition that compromised my
[30:40] Speaker 3: uterus and was ultimately believed to be the reason that
[30:44] Speaker 3: I couldn't carry a CHIWD And it was heartbreaking.
[30:48] Speaker 2: It's one is expensive.
[30:50] Speaker 3: Secondly, you know, for so many women, you feel as
[30:53] Speaker 3: if you are not complete unless you complete that motherhood
[30:58] Speaker 3: journey in this traditional way. So feeling like a failure
[31:02] Speaker 3: as a woman, as a wife, And you know, did
[31:08] Speaker 3: I bring this on myself by letting them do this
[31:12] Speaker 3: exploratory surgery and then the pain and trauma of it all.
[31:17] Speaker 2: I mean, these.
[31:17] Speaker 3: Surgeries are painful, and then when you go through IVF treatment,
[31:23] Speaker 3: then you are are the expense of it all.
[31:27] Speaker 2: And it is just it's such a process. You have
[31:31] Speaker 2: to take shots every day. At some point, you have
[31:33] Speaker 2: to go to the doctor every day.
[31:35] Speaker 3: At some point they retrieve the eggs and then they
[31:39] Speaker 3: do whatever they do with the eggs and the sperm,
[31:41] Speaker 3: and then you get them implanted.
[31:44] Speaker 2: I mean, it's they're like multiple steps.
[31:46] Speaker 3: And I'm not saying this to scare anybody or discourage them,
[31:50] Speaker 3: but it is something that unless you've been through it,
[31:56] Speaker 3: you cannot begin to imagine how taxing it is physically
[32:00] Speaker 3: and emotionally. And it was. It was horrible for us
[32:06] Speaker 3: because it didn't result in us having a child. But
[32:11] Speaker 3: that being said again this rough side of the mountain.
[32:15] Speaker 3: Had I not been through any of that, yes, I
[32:18] Speaker 3: would not have adopted the four wonderful children that I have,
[32:25] Speaker 3: and I could not imagine being a mother to anybody
[32:29] Speaker 3: else other than those four.
[32:31] Speaker 1: Yes, I love that. I can't imagine. That's an extreme
[32:37] Speaker 1: let down disappointment to go through all that and then
[32:39] Speaker 1: they say, sorry, you still can't have children, but your
[32:43] Speaker 1: purpose and destiny was in those four. That's right, Yes,
[32:46] Speaker 1: I love that. I do want to ask you, what
[32:48] Speaker 1: is something that your four children have taught you that
[32:51] Speaker 1: living the public life you've had to live could have
[32:53] Speaker 1: never taught you.
[32:54] Speaker 3: My four children keep me so grounded. Kids that they
[32:59] Speaker 3: are my level setters. It's I mean, even on Mother's
[33:04] Speaker 3: Day I had to go to the mall and look
[33:07] Speaker 3: for some clothes for them to wear election night, and
[33:11] Speaker 3: somebody said, don't you have somebody to do that for you?
[33:13] Speaker 3: I'm like, no, that would be me, because I'm still
[33:16] Speaker 3: the mother for sure, you know. And and for me
[33:19] Speaker 3: it's it's grounding because it just helps me prioritize really
[33:23] Speaker 3: what's important. And for me, being a mother is really important.
[33:27] Speaker 3: And my husband always says to me, you know, they're
[33:30] Speaker 3: gonna make life decisions for you one day, like, so
[33:33] Speaker 3: you better ala they do not forget so you know,
[33:39] Speaker 3: it's just a for me, the biggest lesson. It's just
[33:43] Speaker 3: been Priorityeah.
[33:44] Speaker 1: I love it to them. I love it, and I
[33:47] Speaker 1: love you and your husband Dick. I love your relationship
[33:50] Speaker 1: and y'all always together. I didn't realize that you guys
[33:54] Speaker 1: been the have thirty years, but like, we're friends first.
[33:57] Speaker 3: Were we used to study together. I was trying to
[33:59] Speaker 3: introduce them to one of my friends.
[34:02] Speaker 2: I said, she likes older guys. Like talk to her.
[34:09] Speaker 2: He was like, Nah, I like older guys. I love
[34:14] Speaker 2: My mom was like, I think he wants to do
[34:17] Speaker 2: more than study.
[34:19] Speaker 1: Clearly, I love that, but I love I love your relationship,
[34:23] Speaker 1: and I love how you were friends first. How do
[34:25] Speaker 1: you feel like that friendship helped shape the bond that
[34:29] Speaker 1: you all have through everything that you've gone through and
[34:32] Speaker 1: with the test of time, Because a lot of things
[34:34] Speaker 1: that you've gone through would break up the strongest couple,
[34:36] Speaker 1: like even if he really wanted to have kids one way,
[34:39] Speaker 1: and you're like, I can't certain things in your life
[34:41] Speaker 1: and even running for mayor in office, those things can
[34:44] Speaker 1: be straining on a marriage. How do you feel like
[34:47] Speaker 1: that friendship really set the tone in.
[34:49] Speaker 3: That bond that you have well, all those things were
[34:52] Speaker 3: straining on a marriage. And you know, again, just what
[34:56] Speaker 3: the doesn't mean that you go out in public and like, oh,
[34:59] Speaker 3: by the way, Derek and I are not speaking today.
[35:03] Speaker 3: You know we're gonna walk in here hold their hands.
[35:06] Speaker 3: We hadn't spoken since yesterday. But the friendship, I say
[35:13] Speaker 3: for us, the beauty of our relationship. We've never given
[35:17] Speaker 3: up on each other. At the same time, relationships, the
[35:22] Speaker 3: best of relationships aren't perfect relationships. Sometimes you're here and
[35:28] Speaker 3: sometimes you're here, and it may all be in the
[35:30] Speaker 3: same day.
[35:32] Speaker 2: But that friendship sometimes the same hour.
[35:40] Speaker 3: You know that that that friendship is what keeps us
[35:45] Speaker 3: connected because we do like each other, we do love
[35:48] Speaker 3: each other. We have fun together. Yes, we enjoy each
[35:53] Speaker 3: other's company. So having that foundation has sustained us. And
[36:00] Speaker 3: you know, it's like I'm like, he's crazy. He's like
[36:03] Speaker 3: you were crazier, but it, you know, we just always
[36:07] Speaker 3: find our way to each other. So I'm just grateful
[36:11] Speaker 3: for that.
[36:11] Speaker 1: I love it. I love that. In writing this book,
[36:14] Speaker 1: I'm sure there's a lot of reflection and moments where
[36:17] Speaker 1: as you're writing, was there a moment where you just
[36:19] Speaker 1: looking like, man, like I really have a good husband.
[36:23] Speaker 1: You know, like there's moments where you you know it,
[36:25] Speaker 1: but like as you're writing, it's like, dang, like he
[36:27] Speaker 1: did all this, like this is this is good? Man, Savannah,
[36:30] Speaker 1: Well you know what.
[36:31] Speaker 2: It is because.
[36:34] Speaker 3: In relationships you remember the really good things that sustain.
[36:40] Speaker 2: You and in writing this book. And I joke with him, I.
[36:43] Speaker 3: Said, you need to pay me for how wonderful you
[36:48] Speaker 3: came out in this book.
[36:49] Speaker 2: He's like, I pay you every day. He's like your
[36:56] Speaker 2: life and the pavement.
[37:01] Speaker 3: But also thinking about you know, how I want my
[37:07] Speaker 3: kids to see their father and our relationship. You know,
[37:13] Speaker 3: I don't want to write the details about when we
[37:16] Speaker 3: weren't speaking and not getting alone. Not that you're hiding
[37:21] Speaker 3: the truth, but you know, he is my husband. He
[37:26] Speaker 3: is the father of my children, and I will always
[37:32] Speaker 3: hold him in the best like possible for my children, and.
[37:38] Speaker 2: Vice versa. He does for me too.
[37:41] Speaker 1: Yeah, he just didn't write a book.
[37:43] Speaker 2: Yes, yes, he said, I write my book.
[37:48] Speaker 1: We'll be waiting for it. You can come home and
[37:50] Speaker 1: keep it positive and we'll talk to you too. I
[37:54] Speaker 1: know he's going to watch this like what were' all
[37:56] Speaker 1: talking about? But there were so many moments where Derek
[37:59] Speaker 1: recognized strengths in you that you didn't even recognize. I
[38:02] Speaker 1: want to know, how important is it to have a
[38:04] Speaker 1: partner who sees things when you're doubting yourself.
[38:07] Speaker 2: Oh my gosh.
[38:09] Speaker 3: Derek has always seemed the best in me in that
[38:13] Speaker 3: regard that when I didn't believe that I could do
[38:18] Speaker 3: certain things. And I write about this even when we're
[38:21] Speaker 3: in law school and I said it, I felt like
[38:23] Speaker 3: it was a continuation of my time at FAM you
[38:26] Speaker 3: because I'm still living my best family life. But I
[38:29] Speaker 3: was in law school and getting those first set of.
[38:33] Speaker 1: Rates, I was like, oh, gotta get it together.
[38:37] Speaker 3: And him having this conversation with me about you are smart,
[38:41] Speaker 3: You're capable. Wow, You're just You're gonna stop going out
[38:45] Speaker 3: so much.
[38:47] Speaker 1: That's what the old man to do for get you together.
[38:50] Speaker 3: Well, he later said he knew then he wanted to
[38:54] Speaker 3: marry me, but he was not gonna explain to people
[38:56] Speaker 3: that we met in law school and I flunked out.
[39:01] Speaker 2: He was you to.
[39:08] Speaker 3: But yeah, you know, he's always seen the best in me,
[39:12] Speaker 3: and even when I didn't see it in myself. I'm
[39:14] Speaker 3: really fortunate for that. That's what a relationship is should be,
[39:20] Speaker 3: whether it's a friendship or whether it's a romantic relationship
[39:25] Speaker 3: that people you are around see the very best in
[39:28] Speaker 3: you and bring that out.
[39:30] Speaker 1: For sure, you talked about your children grounding you. It's
[39:34] Speaker 1: like keeping you grounding, not grounding you. Like her kids
[39:37] Speaker 1: aren't putting her own punishment. How they ground you. How
[39:41] Speaker 1: has your marriage grounded you as well? Well?
[39:45] Speaker 3: You know, Derek refers to her home as Derek Stan
[39:49] Speaker 3: and he says, it's a sovereign nation, that's right. You
[39:52] Speaker 3: know when I was mayor, you know, when I would
[39:56] Speaker 3: come in the house with what he called all that
[39:58] Speaker 3: aggressive mayor in He's like, hey, Derek Stan, you need
[40:04] Speaker 3: to leave all that at the mail box.
[40:08] Speaker 2: You don't bring all that aggression in here.
[40:11] Speaker 3: But you know, it is difficult to to kind of
[40:16] Speaker 3: modulate those You've got to go out in the world
[40:19] Speaker 3: one way and then you got to come back in
[40:21] Speaker 3: the house another way, and not in an effort to
[40:24] Speaker 3: diminish me, but like, hey, you don't have to come
[40:27] Speaker 3: in here with fighting like you've been fighting all day.
[40:31] Speaker 2: We don't have to fight in here too. You don't
[40:34] Speaker 2: have to be aggressive with me. So you know again
[40:38] Speaker 2: that and thankfully.
[40:39] Speaker 3: Derek is he ain't that in the politics. He supports
[40:45] Speaker 3: me because it's me, but he's like, I just want
[40:49] Speaker 3: to go to my good job, do my job, and
[40:52] Speaker 3: I'm gonna be supportive of you as my wife.
[40:55] Speaker 2: So that's helpful.
[40:56] Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that Derek stand sounds like a soft
[40:59] Speaker 1: landing for you when you come home. My parents had
[41:02] Speaker 1: a rule whatever like happens at work, stays at work,
[41:07] Speaker 1: so that the home felt more like home. Oh yeah.
[41:10] Speaker 1: So my mom would come in and she was like,
[41:12] Speaker 1: I need an hour. So she would go in the
[41:15] Speaker 1: room and shut the door, and then the hours like okay,
[41:16] Speaker 1: what do ya want to eat? Like yeah, but she
[41:20] Speaker 1: would take an hour to herself because it was a lot.
[41:23] Speaker 1: She worked at a hospital, so she saw so much
[41:25] Speaker 1: and every day it was just like it was a
[41:27] Speaker 1: lot for one person to take. I be don't understand
[41:30] Speaker 1: what people at the hospital seize on a day to
[41:32] Speaker 1: day basis is not a lot to internalize a lot.
[41:36] Speaker 1: So I didn't understand it then, but I mean it
[41:38] Speaker 1: was like, Okay, you need it. It was just like a
[41:39] Speaker 1: normal thing. Mom needs her hour. But as an adult
[41:42] Speaker 1: I get it now because when I go home and
[41:44] Speaker 1: I don't have no kids, I'm like, I need an hour.
[41:46] Speaker 3: Well, yeah, sometimes you just need to decompress, right, because
[41:49] Speaker 3: you're walking out in the world and you're having to
[41:51] Speaker 3: get so much. Sometimes you just need to take a
[41:55] Speaker 3: moment to yourself.
[41:56] Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely, absolutely. You talk about your faith and that
[42:01] Speaker 1: is clearly a firm foundation that you stand on. You
[42:03] Speaker 1: even dedicated scripture pages in your book. I want to
[42:07] Speaker 1: know how has faith helped you in moments where you
[42:11] Speaker 1: didn't understand at the time, but you had to really
[42:13] Speaker 1: lean on God to get you through it.
[42:15] Speaker 3: Just always remembering what my grandmother would tell me, It's
[42:18] Speaker 3: gonna always work out for my good.
[42:21] Speaker 2: So even you know, not knowing where provision would always.
[42:27] Speaker 3: Come from, not knowing why things happened, like the grandmama
[42:31] Speaker 3: always told me it was gonna work out for my good. Yeah,
[42:34] Speaker 3: and the other thing and again with faith. Some people
[42:38] Speaker 3: think of faith as meaning that you got to be
[42:40] Speaker 3: perfect and that you're a holy roller. I say, I'm
[42:44] Speaker 3: a big cinner, but.
[42:48] Speaker 1: We all, we all are, said, honey, we all are,
[42:50] Speaker 1: we all are.
[42:52] Speaker 3: But I know that God still loves me often in
[42:55] Speaker 3: spite of me. And that was the faith that my
[42:58] Speaker 3: grandmother taught me.
[43:00] Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, and at some point.
[43:02] Speaker 3: You know, it's with any child, you you have to
[43:05] Speaker 3: grow into your own faith. Yes, and for me, many
[43:09] Speaker 3: of these lessons that she had told me were I
[43:13] Speaker 3: had to learn from myself at different times in life
[43:16] Speaker 3: through my own experiences.
[43:19] Speaker 1: Yes. So now I want to talk about where we
[43:22] Speaker 1: are today. Oh yeah, yes, you are now running for governor.
[43:27] Speaker 1: I am first of all, what made did you just
[43:30] Speaker 1: wake up and say I'm unning for government?
[43:32] Speaker 2: Absolutely not?
[43:34] Speaker 1: I did not. How did we get here?
[43:37] Speaker 2: When you know.
[43:38] Speaker 3: I was doing a lot of things that didn't involve policy.
[43:43] Speaker 3: I you know, I produced the show.
[43:48] Speaker 2: Over at Hold Period Studios, I.
[43:50] Speaker 1: Go by the way.
[43:52] Speaker 2: Yes, I had the.
[43:53] Speaker 3: Privilege of working at the White House. I was doing
[43:58] Speaker 3: commentating for CNN, consulting. I was doing a lot of things,
[44:02] Speaker 3: living my.
[44:03] Speaker 2: Best free life.
[44:05] Speaker 3: But the day after the presidential election, I went in
[44:10] Speaker 3: a prayer, like, Lord, what am I called to do
[44:13] Speaker 3: in this moment? And I found a journal I had
[44:17] Speaker 3: written some notes just having this real honest conversation with
[44:21] Speaker 3: God about well, why do I have to run for office?
[44:25] Speaker 3: Because the calling was in my heart, but my mind's like, girl,
[44:30] Speaker 3: do you really want to get walked back to that and.
[44:34] Speaker 2: Give up all these things that are making you comfortable.
[44:38] Speaker 3: But when God has a calling on your life, it's
[44:41] Speaker 3: difficult to ignore it.
[44:42] Speaker 2: And for me, that calling is to serve.
[44:45] Speaker 3: And I prayed about what am I called to do
[44:48] Speaker 3: in this season, and I know from my time as
[44:51] Speaker 3: mayor I had to go fight on behalf of people
[44:54] Speaker 3: you didn't have the ability to speak up for themselves.
[45:00] Speaker 3: I'm here, you are here, and I know it's the
[45:03] Speaker 3: right thing to do. Because once I had the confirmation
[45:07] Speaker 3: that this was the path I was to take, I
[45:11] Speaker 3: hadn't thought about it again.
[45:13] Speaker 2: Really, what's this the right decision?
[45:15] Speaker 1: What was the time period from like feeling it in
[45:18] Speaker 1: your heart praying about it to like this is what
[45:20] Speaker 1: I'm gonna do? Like how long did you have to
[45:22] Speaker 1: mole over it?
[45:23] Speaker 3: I wrote those notes sometime in November of twenty twenty four,
[45:28] Speaker 3: because I came across it recently and saw it. I
[45:32] Speaker 3: announced my run, I believe in April of twenty twenty five,
[45:38] Speaker 3: and I was, you know, still tossing and.
[45:40] Speaker 2: Turning about it.
[45:43] Speaker 3: And again, you know, I remember, even just before making
[45:45] Speaker 3: that announcement, one of my dear cousins, who is like
[45:50] Speaker 3: more like a brother.
[45:51] Speaker 2: To me, than a cousin. I told us.
[45:55] Speaker 3: That he was very ill, and we did know that
[46:00] Speaker 3: he had been you know, he looked fine to us,
[46:04] Speaker 3: but he took a turn and he told.
[46:05] Speaker 2: Us about two weeks before he passed that he had
[46:09] Speaker 2: stomach cancer.
[46:12] Speaker 3: And so again it was just then I look at
[46:15] Speaker 3: the pictures that I even took launching the campaign, and
[46:20] Speaker 3: I can see the sadness in my eyes. But again,
[46:25] Speaker 3: you know the life.
[46:27] Speaker 2: I'm here.
[46:29] Speaker 3: Professionally, I'm here personally, but remembering there will be these
[46:36] Speaker 3: rough patches, and you're gonna go up some rough patches
[46:41] Speaker 3: and they're gonna be some rough times, but just keep
[46:44] Speaker 3: climbing and just keep holding on.
[46:47] Speaker 2: Yes, So it was, you know, launching professionally.
[46:53] Speaker 3: Finally saying that out loud was very fulfilling, personally, very painful,
[47:00] Speaker 3: but it was, you know, again these lessons of faith
[47:04] Speaker 3: that my grandmother taught me.
[47:06] Speaker 1: Yeah. No, I love that you are our mayor during
[47:09] Speaker 1: one of the hardest times of my life, through the
[47:14] Speaker 1: pandemic and faced a lot of scrutiny. You're running for governor. Now,
[47:18] Speaker 1: what is something that you can tell people that because
[47:20] Speaker 1: I know we've had this conversation and like, what are
[47:22] Speaker 1: things that you can tell people that are gonna be different,
[47:24] Speaker 1: that this is why you should vote for Keish Lance Bottoms.
[47:28] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[47:28] Speaker 3: I'm a battle tested leader and I fought with every
[47:32] Speaker 3: single thing I had for the people of Atlanta and
[47:36] Speaker 3: for the people.
[47:37] Speaker 2: Across the state.
[47:38] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[47:39] Speaker 3: And I did it because it was the right thing
[47:43] Speaker 3: to do. And it didn't mean that every decision I
[47:46] Speaker 3: made was perfect, but it did mean that I tried
[47:51] Speaker 3: my very best. And you know, even when people have
[47:54] Speaker 3: asked me, why don't you run for a second term?
[47:56] Speaker 1: Run that's a question that comes up.
[47:58] Speaker 3: Yeah, I went in the prayer about that, you know,
[48:01] Speaker 3: reminded people I finished my term and I finished it strong.
[48:04] Speaker 3: I did a poll just before I left the Mayor's
[48:07] Speaker 3: office at sixty eight percent. Our internal polls showed me
[48:12] Speaker 3: so new. The people of Atlanta were please with the
[48:15] Speaker 3: representation I provided. And I write about this in my book.
[48:19] Speaker 3: My dad died suddenly at fifty five, and I given
[48:25] Speaker 3: everything I had to be mayor to the city. I
[48:28] Speaker 3: was giving everything I had to my family. I write
[48:32] Speaker 3: about even the night of the protest in Atlanta, when I.
[48:35] Speaker 1: Gave that remember, like it was yesterday.
[48:37] Speaker 3: Yeah, when I got home my son. My son likes
[48:42] Speaker 3: it was like they ate all the fish, They ate
[48:44] Speaker 3: all the fried fish because I was cooking when I
[48:47] Speaker 3: left to go to a police headquarters. I came in
[48:50] Speaker 3: and I fried fish and cook grits for him.
[48:52] Speaker 1: Oh.
[48:53] Speaker 2: When I got home.
[48:54] Speaker 1: Back to it's like back to Yeah.
[48:57] Speaker 3: So I'd given every single thing I had, But at
[49:01] Speaker 3: that time I had, I was pre diabetic, I was
[49:06] Speaker 3: pre glaucoma, which I still am. I have to use
[49:10] Speaker 3: drops now, I pre hypertensive chronic inflammation. I gained thirty pounds,
[49:15] Speaker 3: like all these things. And I would would think my
[49:20] Speaker 3: daddy died suddenly at fifty five if I had four
[49:23] Speaker 3: years left.
[49:27] Speaker 2: Yeah, what about my kids? What about me?
[49:31] Speaker 3: And making a decision not out of weakness but out
[49:36] Speaker 3: of strength, like I'm making the best decision for me
[49:40] Speaker 3: and my family at this time. And what I will
[49:44] Speaker 3: say now, having served in the White House, reconnecting even
[49:51] Speaker 3: with my therapist, in making sure that I understand I
[49:57] Speaker 3: don't have to sacrifice everything about myself for everybody else
[50:03] Speaker 3: to succeed, then to be happy, has been empowering for me.
[50:07] Speaker 1: I think that's a message to all the women around
[50:09] Speaker 1: the world.
[50:11] Speaker 3: Yeah, so when your mom would come home and say
[50:14] Speaker 3: I need an hour. It means there are days where
[50:18] Speaker 3: I have to say, you know what, I need a minute,
[50:23] Speaker 3: and the old me would never ever do that.
[50:27] Speaker 2: Yeah, I would.
[50:29] Speaker 3: I would rather died making sure that everybody else who
[50:33] Speaker 3: was happy and whole than than live with thinking somebody
[50:38] Speaker 3: else didn't get everything they needed out of me.
[50:44] Speaker 1: That's so good. Yeah, I totally get that. A lot
[50:49] Speaker 1: of people who don't understand politics, we see everything from
[50:52] Speaker 1: the outside. Why are they doing that, Why did they
[50:53] Speaker 1: do this, Why did they say this? What is something
[50:55] Speaker 1: that you can share to help people who don't really
[50:59] Speaker 1: understands understand what goes behind the decision making and how
[51:03] Speaker 1: it doesn't all fall on just whatever you feel is right.
[51:07] Speaker 3: You know, people often expect perfection from politicians, and you know,
[51:13] Speaker 3: even when I made the decision not to run again,
[51:15] Speaker 3: I said, everybody's not going to understand it. It's not
[51:19] Speaker 3: for everybody to understand. Everybody, then, always understand what it
[51:24] Speaker 3: takes to be able to get things done. You sometimes
[51:27] Speaker 3: have to negotiate. You sometimes have to give on things
[51:31] Speaker 3: that you don't necessarily want to give on, but you
[51:34] Speaker 3: see the benefit is worth giving some things in return
[51:41] Speaker 3: and it is difficult as a politician when you have
[51:45] Speaker 3: to fight on all sides. So as a Democrat, I'm
[51:49] Speaker 3: already fighting what Republicans on so much.
[51:53] Speaker 2: I want to have to fight with my people too.
[51:56] Speaker 3: Disagree with me respectfully, give me your input respectfully. But
[52:04] Speaker 3: to be attacked on all sides just makes it more
[52:07] Speaker 3: difficult for people to lead. And I believe that's why
[52:11] Speaker 3: you've seen so many people step away from politics, and
[52:14] Speaker 3: not for sure. You know, I've had the people at
[52:18] Speaker 3: my house. I've had the people call me the N word,
[52:21] Speaker 3: and the people you know, send inappropriate messages to me
[52:26] Speaker 3: and to my kids.
[52:28] Speaker 2: I've had the threats on my life, very.
[52:30] Speaker 3: Credible threats from kidnapping to bodily harm. But I would
[52:41] Speaker 3: say the vast majority of people who are doing this
[52:44] Speaker 3: done pay wells. You're not doing it for the money.
[52:48] Speaker 3: You're doing it because you care, because you care, and
[52:51] Speaker 3: you're trying to serve people. So just give people grace.
[52:56] Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that. I love it. Thank you, cause
[53:00] Speaker 1: I know these are questions that people want to know,
[53:03] Speaker 1: and it's this is a very important election. So much
[53:07] Speaker 1: is happening with where they're changing different things around that
[53:11] Speaker 1: are not for the black cultures benefit. So thank you
[53:16] Speaker 1: so much, and.
[53:17] Speaker 2: Just reminding people don't check outch.
[53:20] Speaker 1: This is time to check in, dude, this is not
[53:21] Speaker 1: the time to check out.
[53:22] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[53:22] Speaker 3: Uh. A vote that's stay on the couch is the
[53:25] Speaker 3: vote for the other side. You may not get everything
[53:29] Speaker 3: you want, but if you get seventy five percent what
[53:33] Speaker 3: you want, that's a win.
[53:34] Speaker 1: Yeah, better than none of what you want.
[53:36] Speaker 2: That's right.
[53:37] Speaker 1: Yeah, No, I totally agree. So this season on keep
[53:40] Speaker 1: it positive, sweetie, we are leaning more into being unapologetic.
[53:44] Speaker 1: So I wanna know, with you running for office, your leadership,
[53:48] Speaker 1: being a mother, all the things, what are you most
[53:50] Speaker 1: unapologetic about in this season of your life.
[53:54] Speaker 2: I am most unapologetic about choosing me.
[53:57] Speaker 3: Yes. So sometimes when I get home, if it's five thirty,
[54:05] Speaker 3: it may mean that I put on my pajamas at
[54:07] Speaker 3: five thirty. I'm not changing into the pre bed clothes.
[54:12] Speaker 2: I'm not changing into the at home clothes.
[54:15] Speaker 3: No, I'm putting my pajamas on it and I'm getting
[54:18] Speaker 3: in the bed.
[54:19] Speaker 2: Yes, may mean that I'm working.
[54:20] Speaker 3: From my bed, but I'm in the bed because I'm tired.
[54:26] Speaker 2: I heard that again, that owe me. Yeah, I would
[54:29] Speaker 2: have never thought of doing that.
[54:31] Speaker 1: Yeah, and that really range true when you talked about
[54:34] Speaker 1: your father passing away, and I realized, you know what
[54:37] Speaker 1: I'm saying, the reality check of I have four more
[54:39] Speaker 1: years to the age that my father passed. What am
[54:41] Speaker 1: I going to do to make sure? And I know
[54:44] Speaker 1: how stressful your job is. That is literally like causing
[54:48] Speaker 1: you to become sick, you know, so the choosing yourself
[54:50] Speaker 1: and I think that's a message to all women because
[54:52] Speaker 1: we think we're a superhero and it's put on your
[54:55] Speaker 1: cape and keep going, you know.
[54:58] Speaker 2: And now for me, it's taking time.
[55:00] Speaker 3: Yeah, this s may be on my trust, but sometimes
[55:02] Speaker 3: it gets crooked, like girls, you're good.
[55:07] Speaker 1: Yeah, I love it. Mayor kish Land Spiders. Well, thank
[55:10] Speaker 1: you so much for coming to spend time with us. Guys,
[55:13] Speaker 1: Please go get her book the Rough Side of the
[55:15] Speaker 1: Mountain where books are available. I promise you will not
[55:19] Speaker 1: regret it. Thank you so so much, Thank you so much. Absolutely.
[55:27] Speaker 1: What I appreciate most about this conversation is it's not
[55:31] Speaker 1: just about leadership, but about pressure of always having to
[55:34] Speaker 1: be strong and composed while still carrying very human things
[55:38] Speaker 1: underneath it all. And I think that's what makes the
[55:40] Speaker 1: Rough Side of the Mountain so powerful, Keisha. Thank you
[55:44] Speaker 1: so much for your honesty, your grace, and for allowing
[55:47] Speaker 1: us to see the woman behind the armor. Thank you
[55:50] Speaker 1: for tuning in to another episode of Keep It Positive, Sweetie.
[55:53] Speaker 1: Be sure to grab your copy of the Rough Side
[55:55] Speaker 1: of the Mountain where books are sold, and don't forget
[55:58] Speaker 1: to download the season eleven kIPS reflection guide at Christo
[56:01] Speaker 1: Ranehezel dot com. Subscribe, share this episode with someone who
[56:05] Speaker 1: needs it, and if you need advice, positivity, or just
[56:08] Speaker 1: want to share where you're going through, email us at
[56:10] Speaker 1: Keep It Positive Outcomes at gmail dot com. As always,
[56:13] Speaker 1: say blessed, stay encouraged, and keep it positive, Sweetie. I'll
[56:17] Speaker 1: see you guys next time.

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