# The 2027 Travel Marketing Playbook Part 1: Brand, PR & the Human Advantage

An episode of [Travel Trends with Dan Christian](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1689330635), 14 Oct 2026, 1 h 15 min.

Audio: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2172036/episodes/19935496-the-2027-travel-marketing-playbook-part-1-brand-pr-the-human-advantage.mp3

Send us Fan Mail As the travel industry looks ahead to 2027, standing out is becoming harder than ever. Performance marketing is more competitive and expensive, AI is flooding the market with content, and travellers have more choices at their fingertips than ever before. So what makes someone choose your brand, trust it and keep coming back? In the first episode of our three-part Marketing Series, sponsored by Propellic, Dan is joined by Laurel Greatrix, Chief Communications Officer at Tripadvisor; Roman Townsend, Managing Director at Belvera Partners; and Fabio Bin, Co-Founder and CMO of WeRoad, to explore why brand, PR and human connection matter more than ever. The conversation explores how AI is changing the way travellers discover brands, why reputation is increasingly shaped by everything from Reddit and social media to podcasts and AI-generated recommendations, and what it really takes to earn trust in a crowded marketplace. Laurel shares how Tripadvisor builds trust through authentic traveller reviews, real photos and experiences that make planning and booking easier. Roman explains why effective PR is about much more than promoting products, and how thought leadership, credibility and genuinely interesting stories help travel brands stand out with both media and customers. Fabio takes us behind the scenes of WeRoad's community-driven approach to marketing, sharing how the company has built a distinctive brand around bringing people together rather than simply selling destinations. From its recognizable visual identity to its organic social strategy, WeRoad offers a compelling example of what happens when customers become part of a brand's story. We also explore the growing role of AI in marketing, where it can make teams more efficient, where it risks making brands sound the same, and why the experiences people have with a company still matter more than any marketing campaign. As travel marketers plan for 2027, this conversation is a timely reminder that getting noticed is only half the challenge. Building a brand people remember, trust and genuinely want to be part of is what makes the difference. And this is just the beginning. Stay tuned for the next two episodes in our Marketing Series, where we'll explore Performance Marketing & Data Attribution and AI Visibility in Travel, with more industry leaders sharing their perspectives on what's next for travel marketing. 👉 Listen to The 2027 Travel Marketing Playbook Part 1: Brand, PR & the Human Advantage Now 🔥 Special Thanks to our Season 8 Title Sponsors for their Support: Quark Expeditions, Intrepid, Kaptio, Propellic, Repayd, and Holafly. The #1 B2B Travel Podcast Globally. Over 100 Episodes. Listeners in 125 countries. New Episodes Every Weds. https://www.traveltrendspodcast.com/

## Chapters

- 0:05 Season Eight Marketing Kickoff
- 5:04 Why Brand And PR Matter
- 10:01 WeRoad’s Relatable Brand Playbook
- 19:21 Selling Connection Instead Of Trips
- 27:24 How Reviews Build Traveler Trust
- 31:31 PR That Avoids The Sales Pitch
- 35:46 Sponsor Break
- 37:42 Brand Voice In The AI Slop Era
- 43:07 Using AI Without Losing Personality
- 48:54 Who Controls Reputation And Narrative
- 56:55 Letting Community Shape The Brand
- 1:01:31 Sponsor Break
- 1:03:34 What AI Cannot Replace In Travel
- 1:12:04 Series Preview And Closing CTAs

## Transcript

[0:05] SPEAKER_05: Hello, everyone, and welcome back to the Travel Trends Podcast here in season eight.
[0:09] SPEAKER_05: And the very first theme that we're focusing on in this season is marketing.
[0:13] SPEAKER_05: It's something that we heard in the feedback after season seven, our survey.
[0:17] SPEAKER_05: We shaped this season as our listeners have heard based on all the amazing feedback we receive from our longstanding listeners and many of our new listeners.
[0:24] SPEAKER_05: We've had five times the number of listeners joining our podcast in 2026, uh week over week, and we're still continuing to see that grow.
[0:32] SPEAKER_05: So we want to continue to build it based on your feedback.
[0:34] SPEAKER_05: So feel free to reach out anytime, Dan at Travel Trends Podcast, let us know some of the topics, the people you want us to interview, especially as we plan to go into 2027 and seasons nine and 10.
[0:45] SPEAKER_05: But this was a series that I was really particularly excited to bring together in season eight because this is the time of the year when every travel company is trying to figure out their marketing strategy for 2027.
[0:56] SPEAKER_05: And in my role for many years inside travel companies, August going into September was the time that you were starting to roll out your marketing activity to kind of warm things up going into October, November, December to hit peak booking in January and February, March.
[1:09] SPEAKER_05: So I wanted these conversations to come at the most timely moment for all of our listeners.
[1:13] SPEAKER_05: And we put together a special three-part series on marketing in partnership with our friends over at Propelic, who many of you know because Brennan has been on the podcast.
[1:23] SPEAKER_05: He's going to be in episode three.
[1:24] SPEAKER_05: You're actually going to hear from John in episode two when we talk about paid performance marketing.
[1:30] SPEAKER_05: But Propelic has been a longstanding sponsor and partner of ours and is certainly one of the top, if not the best, digital marketing agency out there today.
[1:37] SPEAKER_05: You can find more information about them at propelic.com.
[1:41] SPEAKER_05: Thanks again to the team for sponsoring this series.
[1:44] SPEAKER_05: But the first conversation I wanted to have was around brand and PR, because one of the things we certainly saw at the end of the pandemic, and I'll use one example of a business that certainly has leveraged brand to full effect post-pandemic was Intrepid.
[1:57] SPEAKER_05: Intrepid came out with that amazing campaign that many of you might be familiar with, which is the travel is back for good.
[2:03] SPEAKER_05: And they started doing out of home for the first time.
[2:05] SPEAKER_05: And they started spending on brand and building up awareness, something that a lot of travel companies were very cautious of doing because they were spending so much money on paid performance marketing and getting addicted to that form of traffic.
[2:17] SPEAKER_05: And that was where they were seeing most of their trackable conversions.
[2:20] SPEAKER_05: So they shifted most of their money into performance marketing.
[2:23] SPEAKER_05: And the really exciting thing, especially for all the three people joining this call today, is that ultimately the reason a customer will choose to go with a business is based on brand.
[2:32] SPEAKER_05: And the PR activity is a key part of that.
[2:35] SPEAKER_05: But brand strategy is everything when it comes to marketing.
[2:39] SPEAKER_05: And so I have three incredible experts that are here to join me today for this very first marketing discussion.
[2:46] SPEAKER_05: We have Laurel Greatrix, who is not only she's been on our podcast before, um, but she is the chief communications officer at TripAdvisor.
[2:55] SPEAKER_05: And she is a one of the, I would say, the greatest experts I've met in communications and brand strategy from her work at Viator and TripAdvisor.
[3:03] SPEAKER_05: So Laurel, welcome back to the Travel Trends Podcast.
[3:05] SPEAKER_05: Great to have you with us again.
[3:06] SPEAKER_02: Oh, thank you very much for having me, Dan.
[3:08] SPEAKER_05: Absolutely.
[3:09] SPEAKER_05: And then we have Roman Townsend from Belvira Partners, who's been on our podcast before, also be a part of our summit coming up in a couple weeks' time.
[3:17] SPEAKER_05: And just on that note, these three episodes each week lead up to our summit.
[3:22] SPEAKER_05: And on the 28th, we're gonna have day one of our AI summit.
[3:26] SPEAKER_05: And Roman and the team are gonna be doing a session on our day two marketing.
[3:30] SPEAKER_05: So, Roman, welcome back to the Travel Trends Podcast as well.
[3:34] SPEAKER_06: Thank you for having me.
[3:35] SPEAKER_06: Pleasure to be on here to talk through this important topic.
[3:38] SPEAKER_06: And thanks to our sponsors, propelling.
[3:39] SPEAKER_06: Big shout out to Brendan.
[3:40] SPEAKER_05: Thank you, Roman.
[3:41] SPEAKER_05: Great to have you back.
[3:42] SPEAKER_05: And Fabio Bin, the co-founder and CMO of WeRoad.
[3:46] SPEAKER_05: I have been waiting with Beta Breath to have you on the podcast.
[3:49] SPEAKER_05: We finally bring you onto this conversation.
[3:52] SPEAKER_05: And you have a very important role here to play because I use Intrepid as an example, but really I should be using WeRoad because WeRoad has been, you know, one of the most amazing success stories out of uh Italy over the last few years, based in Milan, you know, going from 10 million in sales to$100 million in sales in three years and now tracking towards 200 million in sales.
[4:10] SPEAKER_05: And I think it's going to be one of the brands that has the potential to be the fastest to a billion dollars in sales.
[4:15] SPEAKER_05: And that's all connected to brand strategy and some of the most incredible marketing I've ever seen in travel because the travel marketing you've been doing, the out-of-home, is so fresh and it's it's uh it grabs people's attention.
[4:28] SPEAKER_05: The colors, the messaging.
[4:29] SPEAKER_05: I've been so impressed with the work that you've done.
[4:32] SPEAKER_05: And so we can finally get to have you on the podcast as the marketing expert to showcase the magic behind that work.
[4:39] SPEAKER_04: So, Fabio, welcome to Travel Trends as well.
[4:41] SPEAKER_04: Thank you.
[4:42] SPEAKER_04: Great to be here.
[4:43] SPEAKER_04: Uh, and thank you for the kind words.
[4:45] SPEAKER_04: Uh, I'm flattered.
[4:48] SPEAKER_05: Very, very sincere.
[4:49] SPEAKER_05: Anyone who's followed WeRoad's journey and sees their marketing, uh, all roads lead back to Fabio for that great work.
[4:55] SPEAKER_05: And I've seen it up close over the last couple of years.
[4:57] SPEAKER_05: So I'm speaking from experience knowing your team.
[4:59] SPEAKER_05: Uh, but let's get into this conversation about brand and PR going into 2027.
[5:04] SPEAKER_05: And I'm gonna start with you, Laurel, because you have a lot of domain expertise here, both in communications, but also in really understanding the travel industry.
[5:13] SPEAKER_05: And one of the things that I'm particularly bullish on for travel in the face of AI, and this is very much the theme of day two of our summit, is where are humans still relevant in the age of AI?
[5:23] SPEAKER_05: And most of us talk about the fact we still travel for human connection, and we really want brands that actually make us feel more human, delight our senses, and who better to ask that question to, given the brands you represent, like TripAdvisor and Viator.
[5:37] SPEAKER_05: Um, so I'd love to hear your view first on brand and PR and the importance of human connection and how you message to deliver on that.
[5:47] SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
[5:48] SPEAKER_02: So I think my answer is probably gonna be quite well, very different to what Fabio says.
[5:53] SPEAKER_02: And I think that that's um, you know, like connection when you're a platform means something really different versus a physical product or an operator.
[6:01] SPEAKER_02: That's something really tangible that has an opportunity to kind of like a delight at first contact.
[6:06] SPEAKER_02: But as a platform, what we're trying to do is help people accomplish something.
[6:11] SPEAKER_02: So it's it's very different.
[6:12] SPEAKER_02: And so much of the relationship and the connection that we build as Viator TripAdvisor comes down to how simple we make it for someone to accomplish a task.
[6:20] SPEAKER_02: Very different to WeRoad.
[6:22] SPEAKER_02: So what we're trying to do is do we understand what matters to our customer?
[6:26] SPEAKER_02: Do we understand what frustrates them?
[6:28] SPEAKER_02: Do we know what payment options do they they need?
[6:30] SPEAKER_02: Do we have the flexible cancellation policies?
[6:32] SPEAKER_02: This stuff is maybe a little bit more um utilitarian.
[6:36] SPEAKER_02: Are we remembering their party size so they're not repeating themselves?
[6:38] SPEAKER_02: And essentially, are we constantly removing friction from their booking experience so that we're making their life simpler or better, maybe even in some small way in that booking moment.
[6:51] SPEAKER_02: Which is to say, at least for a platform, I don't think that you can communicate or brand your way into a great human connection.
[6:58] SPEAKER_02: Absolutely, brand and values and identity, these things are all really, really important.
[7:03] SPEAKER_02: But for us and for the platforms, I think ultimately you build that connection through the total experience that you deliver.
[7:10] SPEAKER_02: And for us, that means consistently showing our customers that we understand them from the very top of the funnel to the very bottom of the funnel.
[7:18] SPEAKER_02: So for us, our human connection and our connection to our customers really comes from showing that we understand our customers and making their lives easier than they would have been two months ago, three months ago, four months ago, the last time they used our product.
[7:30] SPEAKER_05: I've got one follow-up for a question for you on this, Laurel, and then I'm gonna bring Fabio in.
[7:34] SPEAKER_05: And one of the things I always think about with great brands is that you typically have two or things you might associate with that brand.
[7:40] SPEAKER_05: And, you know, when you think about Apple, that's a great example that often gets cited in terms of a great brand.
[7:45] SPEAKER_05: And it's the simplicity, it's innovation.
[7:48] SPEAKER_05: Like there's a few key words that people identify as to why they want to be associated with that brand, why they're proud to have that phone in their hand or have that laptop in the cafe.
[7:56] SPEAKER_05: What would you say those are when it comes to TripAdvisor and Viator?
[8:00] SPEAKER_05: When that human connection, when people are thinking about Viator, because both have very strong brands, um, and it's certain people, and a lot of this ends up being subjective, as we know.
[8:09] SPEAKER_05: It's like, what is it, you know, what does someone think of that brand?
[8:12] SPEAKER_05: But what message are you trying to convey that you want them to associate with TripAdvisor or Viator?
[8:18] SPEAKER_02: All on, I think I'll take TripAdvisor on this one because they, I mean, there, there's a lot of similarities there, but they're also um, you know, they're they're they're two very different things.
[8:26] SPEAKER_02: On TripAdvisor, I think it's probably uh people, authenticity, and trust.
[8:31] SPEAKER_02: And, you know, what we know is that people are always going to trust the person over the business.
[8:36] SPEAKER_02: Like you're gonna trust uh Bob from Dayton, Ohio's perspective on really how sparkling clean that hot tub is over Bob, the general manager.
[8:45] SPEAKER_02: So I think with TripAdvisor, it's about people.
[8:48] SPEAKER_02: You want those first hand experiences, authenticity, are those first hand experiences real and different to what you might receive in marketing materials?
[8:54] SPEAKER_02: And trust.
[8:55] SPEAKER_02: Can you trust what you've just received in order to make what might be like an incredibly emotionally or financially expensive decision?
[9:02] SPEAKER_05: I find it so fascinating to talk marketing strategy.
[9:04] SPEAKER_05: I'm sure many of our listeners are going to appreciate this because the other conversations we're gonna have about being discoverable in the age of AI and trying to make sure that you are tracking your data attribution, all those things are important conversations.
[9:15] SPEAKER_05: But I think this is the one and why I wanted to lead off on this was because there's very few, I would say, really terrific travel marketers.
[9:22] SPEAKER_05: The three of you, I obviously I hold in high esteem.
[9:24] SPEAKER_05: And that's why I wanted to bring Fabio into this to get your take on the exact question I just asked Laurel there.
[9:30] SPEAKER_05: You were very intentional about your marketing and messaging with Wii Road to try and get across this sense of community and the idea that you're going to travel with these coordinators and have these amazing experiences.
[9:39] SPEAKER_05: And you make it very fun, friendly, accessible.
[9:43] SPEAKER_05: You tie into popular culture, um, you use memes, and it's like it's it feels very accessible.
[9:50] SPEAKER_05: And so that's my reaction to your marketing.
[9:53] SPEAKER_05: I would love for you to share with our listeners how much of that is intentional and what you what the experience you want people to have with the Wii Road brand has been.
[10:01] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um first of all, it it was absolutely intentional.
[10:05] SPEAKER_00: When we started almost uh 10 years ago now, the the idea of find our place uh in the market of travel was like uh we should be different.
[10:18] SPEAKER_00: The point is uh uh is a is uh Red Ocean, it's plenty of competitor, and everyone was using uh performance marketing.
[10:24] SPEAKER_00: Everyone is super skilled on performance marketing.
[10:27] SPEAKER_00: So how can you find uh uh your position, your place in such a crowded uh space?
[10:34] SPEAKER_00: And the idea was okay, let's play a different card.
[10:37] SPEAKER_00: Let's try to be uh intentionally someone different, not to communicate as a true operator, for example, or not to you to leverage the cliche of the industry, you know, uh the usual pictures like the um uh the sand, the sea, uh palm trees, this kind of stuff uh, but uh focus on people instead.
[11:02] SPEAKER_00: And focusing on people is not it's not just about uh uh showing uh people traveling, it's about actually be relatable and speaking of the what really intrigues your audience, your target audience.
[11:18] SPEAKER_00: Uh uh I think at the beginning we we we have been lucky because we uh we found the right momentum for Instagram.
[11:26] SPEAKER_00: Uh we invest a lot on uh organic social media, uh and so we communicate uh using the language of social media and using the language of our audience uh uh that was like people in their 30s.
[11:40] SPEAKER_00: So it would be uh too traditional, tell them, okay, we are selling uh adventure trip for a small group of people, uh, you can go to Thailand, you can go to Peru.
[11:52] SPEAKER_00: Uh it costs like uh uh 1k.
[11:54] SPEAKER_00: That's it's very plain.
[11:56] SPEAKER_00: So we play another card.
[11:57] SPEAKER_00: We play the card of uh be relatable and speaking about them, speaking about the fact that these guys are saving money for the trip, they dream of a destination, but they are always have a life in the daily, in the daily life where when they are not traveling.
[12:13] SPEAKER_00: So uh it it this is the reason why we came up with jokes, uh, with memes, with cultural references that were much more important than destinations.
[12:27] SPEAKER_00: Uh and we built a brand even using color very, very um unusual for travel.
[12:33] SPEAKER_00: We used the the black and the red.
[12:35] SPEAKER_00: Uh if you think about that, it's not common, they're not common color compared to uh a regular trooper operator.
[12:42] SPEAKER_00: So we tended to build a brand since day zero.
[12:46] SPEAKER_00: That that was the idea.
[12:48] SPEAKER_00: Of course, we we leverage performance marketing, but again, we invested much more on organic, uh organic social media and building uh and delivering messages uh that could resonate with people.
[13:02] SPEAKER_05: And I'm gonna come back to that because I one of the things that you've done very successfully is you've established colors, the people that identify with WeRoad.
[13:09] SPEAKER_05: As soon as you see that black and pink, you instantly think it's gonna be WeRoad.
[13:12] SPEAKER_05: And given my background at G Adventures and the branding work we had done there, uh, when we rebranded that company, we leaned very much into purple because there's no other adventure travel company that would dare try and get into that space because that's what travelers know for 35 plus years now.
[13:27] SPEAKER_05: G Adventures is purple.
[13:28] SPEAKER_05: And I think most people that um you know listening to this that uh have an appreciation of marketing would look to the big banks in any of the countries you're in.
[13:36] SPEAKER_05: And I any of the banks pick a color and they lean into that.
[13:39] SPEAKER_05: And those are, you know, there's four or five big banks in most countries, and they all pick a color.
[13:43] SPEAKER_05: They also pick a sport that they're gonna be the ones that they dominate on and they figure out how they're gonna connect with consumers.
[13:48] SPEAKER_05: And so that's one of the things, and and you highlighted something else that I'm gonna come back to, but I do want to bring Roman in as we uh start off this conversation.
[13:55] SPEAKER_05: I want to come back to the point you just made around marketing trips versus marketing community, because most travel companies are so fixated on what they want to sell that they're like, how do I sell Thailand?
[14:07] SPEAKER_05: How do I is it pricing?
[14:08] SPEAKER_05: Is it like showing a picture of people enjoying themselves in Thailand?
[14:11] SPEAKER_05: And also, really, you just run into a crowded marketplace of everyone saying the same thing about a destination.
[14:16] SPEAKER_05: And it's like, what is your unique selling proposition?
[14:19] SPEAKER_05: Something that got driven into me by the travel corporation and Stanley Tolman in particular, when he'd bring executives into a room and would say, you know, sell me the difference.
[14:27] SPEAKER_05: You know, why insight vacations over Trafalgar?
[14:30] SPEAKER_05: Why Trafalgar over the competition?
[14:32] SPEAKER_05: Like, why you?
[14:33] SPEAKER_05: And it was like most people couldn't answer that question very well, put on the spot.
[14:37] SPEAKER_05: And it was it highlighted that there was an issue with their marketing and their messaging.
[14:40] SPEAKER_05: Um, so Roman, let's bring you in just to get this conversation fully underway.
[14:44] SPEAKER_05: Belvira Partners, many of our listeners are familiar with what you guys do, but I just would emphasize you guys are focused on travel technology, and it relates to this question because you are trying to humanize these businesses so that they can actually attract more B2B uh customers.
[15:01] SPEAKER_05: So when it comes to human connection, what's your view on this as the importance of that for travel marketers and specifically in the B2B travel technology space?
[15:10] SPEAKER_05: Is that important?
[15:11] SPEAKER_05: And what advice are you and your PR team giving to your clients uh to help them better connect with ultimately humans that are making these decisions?
[15:19] SPEAKER_06: Very good question.
[15:20] SPEAKER_06: Thank you for sort of contextualizing, you know, the the way in which I would be looking at this because yes, we focus on you know travel technology and B2B.
[15:28] SPEAKER_06: Um and in that respect, it's a you know very, very different kind of uh communications um environment because you're dealing with um people who are much more invested in the topic, much better educated about you know about these things, more nuanced than who are making big investments.
[15:45] SPEAKER_06: You know, this isn't like where am I gonna go on holiday or you know what what what sort of tours and activities thing do I do this weekend?
[15:51] SPEAKER_06: Um it's you know how do we uh introduce a new tech that's gonna power our business.
[15:56] SPEAKER_06: Um two things I would say um in response to your question that you know how how you know people engage.
[16:04] SPEAKER_06: Um I think these are two things that are quite telling.
[16:07] SPEAKER_06: One is whether or not when people do talk, um they uh particularly when they're under pressure um or when there are things that make them feel uncomfortable about what's going on in the business, whether or not they are open and honest and proactive in their communications, or whether they try and put some sort of spin on things and say, you know, everything's okay, nothing to see over here, you know.
[16:27] SPEAKER_06: Um my children, whenever they're being naughty, say everything's under control.
[16:31] SPEAKER_06: They come into the room and they say, Everything's under control.
[16:33] SPEAKER_06: That's the sign it's not under control.
[16:34] SPEAKER_06: That's when they go to their bedroom and see what's going on.
[16:37] SPEAKER_06: And I think companies often make that mistake, uh particularly CEOs and people like that, um, and they don't like being told, you know, having the mirror held up to them by their comms team or their investor relations teams or marketers and saying, you know, well, what you're saying doesn't match with the reality.
[16:51] SPEAKER_06: And that goes down really badly with audiences.
[16:54] SPEAKER_06: So that's the one thing I would say.
[16:55] SPEAKER_06: The other thing I would say that's most telling at the sort of B2B, you know, corporate uh level communications is whether or not you see companies talking about something other than themselves and their own products and services.
[17:11] SPEAKER_06: How invested are they in talking about a whole range of issues?
[17:14] SPEAKER_06: You know, I mean, I know there's some topics that people now don't like to get into.
[17:17] SPEAKER_06: I've seen some of our clients saying we don't want to talk about LGBTQ plus anymore because it's so divisive in the US and so on.
[17:22] SPEAKER_06: I understand people ducking out of that.
[17:24] SPEAKER_06: But if you're prepared to, or other topics um uh that might be contentious, but if you're not prepared to talk about wider trends where you've not got immediately some sort of product to sell, I think that's uh that's that's quite telling.
[17:35] SPEAKER_06: So whether there'd be things that might be on the political spectrum, you know, International Women's Day, Black History Month, or environmental issues, and but you can still get into, you know, discussion around where people are going, you know, how many Germans are going to go on board this sun, where where are they going?
[17:49] SPEAKER_06: What do we think about a Gentec future?
[17:51] SPEAKER_06: Um uh I don't know.
[17:53] SPEAKER_06: There's there's there's just so many great tech topics that people can get involved in where they don't necessarily have uh some sort of products or services.
[18:00] SPEAKER_06: So and that for me is very telling.
[18:02] SPEAKER_06: Um uh because I think they're missing uh first of all, they're missing the opportunity to convince the gatekeepers uh like media and conference organizers to let them on stage and speak.
[18:13] SPEAKER_06: Because if you want to talk about your products, uh you know very telling.
[18:16] SPEAKER_06: And second of all, to the extent that they do get semair time, uh they don't realise just how much people immediately turn off the second that they're being pitched to.
[18:23] SPEAKER_06: We all know when we're being pitched to instinctively.
[18:25] SPEAKER_06: We all see this in our own day-to-day lives every single day.
[18:28] SPEAKER_06: You can just tell when you get one of those anonymous calls, and you can just tell in the first five seconds whether they're trying to sell you something or not, aren't you?
[18:35] SPEAKER_06: Um and it's the same with uh the same with PR.
[18:38] SPEAKER_06: People who don't realize that are really, you know, um not just wasting their money, they're doing damage to their, to, to the to their business success.
[18:47] SPEAKER_05: Well, I'm gonna keep coming back to you for some tips and recommendations that I'm sure our listeners are keen uh to gather from this conversation because each of you could, you know, carry this full hour on your own.
[18:57] SPEAKER_05: Um but I had a lot of I had a lot of uh enthusiasm for getting the questions together for this.
[19:02] SPEAKER_05: Catherine and I were working on this, as each of you know, uh, to put the questions together.
[19:05] SPEAKER_05: And there's so much I want to cover with each of you, and there is overlap, but there's specific things that I'm keen to understand about WiiRoad, about uh uh TripAdvisor and Viator, and then also B2B marketing as well, since that is a uh you know such a big portion of our audience that are involved in B2B marketing.
[19:21] SPEAKER_05: Um I'm gonna come back to Fabio on the question that I alluded to around community and belonging, because a lot of travel startups, when they're trying to solve a problem, they are trying to figure out what is then the message that they what is what what solution are they offering to that problem?
[19:36] SPEAKER_05: And one of the things you identified with the team very early on in the Wii Row journey was this loneliness epidemic.
[19:42] SPEAKER_05: You know, we're more uh connected than we've ever been, but we actually feel more disconnected.
[19:47] SPEAKER_05: And you're really tapping into this loneliness epidemic.
[19:49] SPEAKER_05: And a number of adventure travel companies, you know, do speak to that as well because they've recognized that there is an opportunity to get solo travelers and people that wouldn't, you know, that would really benefit from having a group travel experience.
[20:01] SPEAKER_05: But you guys have been able to do it from a really fresh and new um uh way of recruiting these coordinators, having them really kind of buy into the mission.
[20:10] SPEAKER_05: And so I would I I'm keen to get your take on that.
[20:12] SPEAKER_05: So if you wouldn't mind, you know, whenever I'm preparing for these, I want nuggets of gold that are going to be the most uh beneficial for our listeners.
[20:19] SPEAKER_05: And I'm sure they want to understand this question of like, how are you successful uh marketing community versus marketing products?
[20:28] SPEAKER_00: Wow, okay.
[20:29] SPEAKER_00: We we we never sold trips.
[20:31] SPEAKER_00: That's the point.
[20:32] SPEAKER_00: Uh uh actually, if you look at it from the outside, maybe you can think that our business model is based on selling trips.
[20:40] SPEAKER_00: That's that's correct.
[20:41] SPEAKER_00: But we are not actually selling trips, we are selling connection.
[20:45] SPEAKER_00: It's not like a marketing thing, it's something real.
[20:50] SPEAKER_00: I mean, the point is that the people, when we started the idea, was uh oh, me, uh my co-founder, uh, we were looking for people to travel with, okay?
[20:59] SPEAKER_00: And why we were in that um situation, simple, because maybe our friends they they were uh engaged, some of them uh they were working, so it was even just difficult to to to match the the dates for the trip.
[21:12] SPEAKER_00: So we we started from our real problem.
[21:15] SPEAKER_00: So the destination has never been the the the point.
[21:20] SPEAKER_00: The point was like uh finding someone to travel with.
[21:23] SPEAKER_00: Okay.
[21:24] SPEAKER_00: Um of course we we we started by marketing uh uh trips, uh again, not destination, but marketing uh how it can be easy to start traveling uh uh even if you're alone.
[21:38] SPEAKER_00: And and also um try to remove the stigma about not having friends.
[21:44] SPEAKER_00: That's another uh important part.
[21:46] SPEAKER_00: When we started, uh probably the idea of traveling solo was meant just for uh the real travelers, you know, the ones that are the backpackers that are having like a gap here, traveling around the m around the world, something like that.
[22:00] SPEAKER_00: For regular people uh like us uh with a work normal life uh that want to spend just a couple of weeks of holidays, okay?
[22:08] SPEAKER_00: So and that and we had this this problem of finding people to travel with.
[22:11] SPEAKER_00: So the point was uh okay, the people and the destination uh was just again an excuse.
[22:18] SPEAKER_00: Um, and then we uh we understood that uh it couldn't be the group, couldn't be led by uh just uh a regular travel guide, you know, some someone doing that for as a as a professional, uh for a living, I mean.
[22:35] SPEAKER_00: And we came up with the idea of the travel coordinators or group leaders.
[22:39] SPEAKER_00: So people that are basically are uh the target.
[22:43] SPEAKER_00: So they they could be travelers, uh and then instead they they choose as a side gig to lead a tour.
[22:50] SPEAKER_00: And of course, there are people that are passionate about travel, they are seasoned travelers, but what we were looking for, what we are looking for in our travel coordinator is the capacity of be a problem solver, uh a team leader, uh a person that makes the other bonding, make the group bonding.
[23:08] SPEAKER_00: That that's the the the point because for us, uh a successful trip is not when everything uh flows and goes well.
[23:16] SPEAKER_00: It's when the group is happy and they and everyone is making new friends.
[23:22] SPEAKER_00: That's the point.
[23:23] SPEAKER_00: And so from a marketing standpoint, from a communication standpoint, uh we uh I like this part, the fact that you can uh leave solo and come back with friends and you can stay in touch with these people.
[23:37] SPEAKER_00: So, yes, you can pick up a destination, but uh no matter the destination, you will find friends, you will find connection.
[23:45] SPEAKER_00: And also while at the beginning we were stressing a lot the fact that we were connecting with locals and with uh fellow travelers, I have to say over the years we kind of get rid of this local connection because let's admit that it's not that easy.
[24:01] SPEAKER_00: In a trip of a couple of weeks, you cannot bond or get uh in in a depth connection with the local.
[24:08] SPEAKER_00: Okay, especially if you are moving every day, if you're on another trip.
[24:12] SPEAKER_00: But um we we basically are creating the social scaffolding, the trip for us is a social scaffolding where things can happen, and for us, things are relationship among people traveling.
[24:25] SPEAKER_00: Um it is simple like that.
[24:27] SPEAKER_00: So we we moved the focus from the destination to the relationships happening uh uh in the trips.
[24:33] SPEAKER_00: And I think, sorry, and then I finish, I think it's crazy that no one uh understood that, or maybe the other operators they understood that, but they never use as a communication level.
[24:47] SPEAKER_00: That that's that's crazy.
[24:48] SPEAKER_00: In fact, if you look at the the last uh three or four years, there are many, many new startups in the space of the real life connection in the cities, so now while traveling, they are leveraging this uh loneliness epidemic, or how difficult is uh making new friends uh uh and meeting people.
[25:05] SPEAKER_00: But if you look at the travel, no one except We Rhoda has been uh leveraged this angle in such a strong way.
[25:17] SPEAKER_05: Yeah, and I I'm just gonna add something to that, Fabio, just to underscore your point, and then I'm gonna switch gears and bring Laurel in about TripAdvisors branding and positioning.
[25:26] SPEAKER_05: But just in terms of those listeners that are wrapping their head around what Fabio just shared around WeRoad, one of the additional developments in terms of building community that you've been very successful in is the concept of a coordinator.
[25:37] SPEAKER_05: And if we think about multi-day tours, the industry that you broke into, people are trying to make a decision based on the itinerary and the price and the inclusions, like those are table stakes.
[25:46] SPEAKER_05: What they're ultimately looking for is making sure they're gonna have a great guide and they're gonna have a great group.
[25:50] SPEAKER_05: And so they're looking to travel with like-minded people, but the guide really makes all the difference.
[25:54] SPEAKER_05: And most companies have been leaning into for many years having a local guide because that's also what that's the expectation is you want someone that knows Kenya or Ireland or Japan and that is a local, and that's why people travel.
[26:07] SPEAKER_05: But one of the things that we wrote is done very successfully, and I've brought this up with some of the other venture travel companies, using, you know, Intrepid uses the term leaders because people want to know that they're professional guides.
[26:17] SPEAKER_05: We came up with all different types of titles at the travel corporation, like directors, travel managers for Kentiki.
[26:22] SPEAKER_05: So you want to either make them sound more polished or more friendly.
[26:26] SPEAKER_05: And then G Adventures, under Bruce Poontipp's direction, changed the title for all of their guides to chief experience officers.
[26:32] SPEAKER_05: And I just saw a lot of them in uh the GX conference in Cambodia, and it was amazing.
[26:36] SPEAKER_05: Like the CEOs are so passionate, they love the brand, they're focused on giving great guest experiences, but they're landlocked to the destination.
[26:44] SPEAKER_05: And so one of the things that you have uh um uh changed the industry already is the idea that people travel for the coordinator, and the coordinator doesn't have to be from Japan, that coordinator from Japan may be taking a group to Iceland.
[26:57] SPEAKER_05: And I've seen this firsthand coming off stage uh with Andrew D'Amico and people coming up to talk to him, the former CEO of Wii Road, that they love traveling with their coordinator.
[27:07] SPEAKER_05: They're going on their third trip with their coordinator, and they follow that coordinator wherever they go.
[27:11] SPEAKER_05: And so it's a really fascinating evolution of building community and having people follow people in your community.
[27:17] SPEAKER_05: Um, so on that note, and I'm sure you've got more to say on this, and we will come back to it when it comes to building repeat and scaling a business.
[27:24] SPEAKER_05: Um, but I wanted to go over to Laurel to ask a really important question up front here about trust.
[27:29] SPEAKER_05: One of the things that people have looked to for TripAdvisor for many years, ever since the Web 2.0 movement, the wisdom of the crowd, and you know, sourcing traveler-traveler opinions, did TripAdvisor has become the gold standard for travelers to make decisions on what hotels they're gonna stay at, what companies they're gonna trust.
[27:45] SPEAKER_05: Um, so you are very much at the intersection between travel brands and travel opinions.
[27:50] SPEAKER_05: And I would love to get your take on what you've learned, specifically at TripAdvisor, about what actually builds trust with travelers.
[28:00] SPEAKER_02: I mean, I think this actually touches a little bit on what Fabio was saying, but people.
[28:05] SPEAKER_02: And I don't really think that what builds trust has changed at all in TripAdvisor's history.
[28:12] SPEAKER_02: We trust people more than we trust institutions and businesses.
[28:17] SPEAKER_02: And that is totally understandable because you know, a hotel has much more of an incentive of an incentive to um smooth over its rough edges, show you the best pictures, the professional photography, give you a beautiful description than your average reviewer, Dan from Toronto.
[28:33] SPEAKER_02: Dan from Toronto is telling you what he thinks because he wants to tell you what he thinks.
[28:37] SPEAKER_02: Dan, the hotel manager, is telling you what he thinks because he wants you to book.
[28:40] SPEAKER_02: And that all of that still remains the same.
[28:42] SPEAKER_02: That means that people are just so much more trustworthy than the institutions selling to them.
[28:48] SPEAKER_02: And I don't know if you guys saw the your sponsor's uh research from last week, Propel.
[28:52] SPEAKER_02: Like they and it really backed us up.
[28:53] SPEAKER_02: So they did a behavioral research study, I think it was like 70 or 80 travelers, and they watched them plan travel through LLMs.
[29:00] SPEAKER_02: And what they found was that in travel search results, the most interacted with elements were reviews and pictures.
[29:07] SPEAKER_02: And the biggest complaint were a lack of reviews or pictures.
[29:11] SPEAKER_02: So what that tells you is that even though the way we book, the way we think, the way we get inspired, that has changed tremendously over the last 20 years.
[29:19] SPEAKER_02: At the very, very heart of it is that we want to know what these real experiences are.
[29:23] SPEAKER_02: So I think it's kind of a good reminder that though how people search is changing and new platforms will emerge and new technology will emerge, at the heart of it, the information that these platforms can give them that means the most that hasn't changed.
[29:37] SPEAKER_02: That's always going to remain critical.
[29:39] SPEAKER_02: And those sort of like firsthand, super real, super authentic, sometimes super raw bits of feedback, that is what's most important.
[29:47] SPEAKER_02: That's not changing.
[29:48] SPEAKER_02: What is sometimes changing or is often changing now is the delivery mechanism for it.
[29:52] SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
[29:53] SPEAKER_05: I appreciate you sharing that.
[29:54] SPEAKER_05: It's a great example.
[29:54] SPEAKER_05: And that report will actually be part of our episode three.
[29:57] SPEAKER_05: So I'm glad that you have brought it up.
[29:58] SPEAKER_05: And Brennan's doing an opening keynote on the day two, and he's gonna dive right into that because this is, you know, it's what travelers and it's what companies want to know about what's changing in the customer journey.
[30:07] SPEAKER_05: You know, when they used to do search results and then they would find a hotel and they would go to TripAdvisor and then they would validate it before they actually book it.
[30:14] SPEAKER_05: You guys have always been a part of that uh customer journey, and that's that journey is changing in the in uh not only regenerative AI, but agentic AI.
[30:21] SPEAKER_05: And this is why I wanted to ask you that question about trust, because that's overwhelmingly the reason people are not booking through agentic AI platforms, is the trust factor isn't there for most consumers today.
[30:31] SPEAKER_05: That's continuing to change, even as we're having this conversation, instinct, muse, some of these tools that are coming along.
[30:37] SPEAKER_05: Um, but ultimately, we're still hearing the same thing is that people are gonna do their research, but they're still gonna utilize a human or travel advisor uh to book.
[30:45] SPEAKER_05: So to round this out, I'm gonna bring Roman back in, and then I'm going to kind of uh go through a number of things I want to discuss with each of you.
[30:54] SPEAKER_05: I want to discuss AI.
[30:55] SPEAKER_05: I want to discuss controlling your brand in this age of um uh very much new media, how much you control it versus your customers.
[31:03] SPEAKER_05: Um, and I want to have one of the biggest conversations that I think needs to be had for 2027, and this is the day two theme, but I want to have this conversation with you first is where humans are still relevant in the age of AI.
[31:14] SPEAKER_05: Uh, but one thing that I wanted to ask Roman on this topic that kind of sets the stage is that when you have clients coming into you, ourselves included, you do some fantastic work for Travel Trends Podcast, yourself, Antonia, Vera, and the team to support travel trends and getting our message out globally.
[31:31] SPEAKER_05: And so, um, but one of the things that you when you brought us on as a client is that you were asking us all the right questions about our brand, our positioning, and how we want to um uh how how we currently market ourselves.
[31:44] SPEAKER_05: And I know every time you're onboarding a new client, you're trying to get to the bottom of their brand strategy and then how you and your team can amplify that.
[31:53] SPEAKER_05: So, my specific question from your brand and communication perspective is what separates travel companies that have built a very distinctive brand versus some of those that are just maybe good at marketing?
[32:04] SPEAKER_05: They've had a couple good campaigns.
[32:06] SPEAKER_05: Um, what are the things you're looking for?
[32:08] SPEAKER_05: What are the signals you're looking for from a client?
[32:10] SPEAKER_05: And what are the gaps that you sometimes see that happen when they tell you and you say, wait a second, this isn't fully formed.
[32:17] SPEAKER_05: I don't have enough information by which for our team to really be able to amplify your message because it's not clear.
[32:22] SPEAKER_06: Um I think it's sort of going back to a bit to uh thanks for the kind words by the way.
[32:26] SPEAKER_06: But uh yeah, going back a bit to what I was saying um uh earlier on, um, it's about it it's very different from marketing, um, in as much as and often what we see are you we do see some people with very good marketing um you know plans are very clear about you know how they differentiate their brand from others, but everything's all thought through from the the product perspective, particularly in the maybe in the B2C world, but you know I don't know about that, it's different, but in the B2B world, it's all you know, we're faster, we're harder, we're louder, we're cheaper, we're you know we're all these kind of things.
[32:58] SPEAKER_06: Um and um you know that's uh I'm sure that that's very important to to what they're doing.
[33:04] SPEAKER_06: And that to some extent is branding as well, obviously.
[33:07] SPEAKER_06: Um but it's not necessarily that important at a PR level when you if you consider PR to be the communications you make via the media on stage at conferences, maybe with you know investor relations, um, a little bit, you know, your your LinkedIn presence and that kind of thing.
[33:22] SPEAKER_06: Um and so often people got the that digital marketing bit down very well, whether it's you know money they're investing, um, how they, you know, the the the factors which they compete on when once people are in the funnel and making a product choice, you know, I need the fastest one or I need the cheapest one or I need the one that's you know uh most reliable software or whatever.
[33:41] SPEAKER_06: Um but when it comes to um to PR, again it's about you know talking around topics that um really are going to engage people and are of interest at that that higher level, you know, heat waves in the summer and how you know how that's affected people.
[33:58] SPEAKER_06: I don't know, the uh last week in uh this terrible incident on the flight where the you know the the pilot tried to kill the other pilot and you know all the the knock-on effect that has, you think logistically and people's perception of safety and security on planes and all the rest of it.
[34:12] SPEAKER_06: Um you know responding to and engaging with all those those those kind of topics, um discussing those, particularly if you're B2B brand.
[34:19] SPEAKER_06: If you're a B2C brand, I mean with respect to you know TripAdvisor and you know we wrote and all the rest of it, you know, there's a there's a significant level of interest in you guys as a as a brand.
[34:27] SPEAKER_06: Um you know you're just on the stock market, you have financial results, everybody knows you, you know.
[34:31] SPEAKER_06: Yeah, um but for if you're a B2B brand um and it's you know it's it's techie, you've got to really gotta get out there and fight for for some noise.
[34:39] SPEAKER_06: And the way to do it is definitely not by talking about product proof points uh or pricing and all those kind of things.
[34:45] SPEAKER_06: So often the minute I hear all of that, I just zone out.
[34:47] SPEAKER_06: I'm like, that's really not of interest.
[34:48] SPEAKER_06: But yeah, what we've got to think about here is um who is the audience you're going after?
[34:52] SPEAKER_06: Which geography in, what's their persona, what's their signality level, um, you know, all the rest of it.
[34:57] SPEAKER_06: And then what are the topics that those people really care about?
[35:00] SPEAKER_06: Leaving aside obviously, you know, um the the the the the children's school run or whether their grandmother's ill and all the other things that really occupy all of our times, uh just the professional topics they're interested in, and what is it you can say about those topics that's going to engage them and make them go, oh yeah, I really want to speak with that man or woman and reach out to them and have a conversation about some professional topic that could then or you know, six months down the line lead to something that is related to your product.
[35:27] SPEAKER_06: But you're just so much more credible when you do that.
[35:29] SPEAKER_06: When someone, if you talk about you know, heat waves and someone approaches you have a good conversation at the end, you then don't try and sell them a heat wave solution.
[35:35] SPEAKER_06: You're so much more credible on the day they do have a problem that relates to something you do, and you say, Well, this time I really can help you, you know.
[35:42] SPEAKER_06: Um, you've just you've you know you've won the mojo completely.
[35:46] SPEAKER_03: We'll be right back.
[35:48] SPEAKER_03: Propellic is the leading full-service travel marketing and advertising agency built for how people discover travel today.
[35:54] SPEAKER_03: They help travel brands grow through AI visibility and SEO, paid media and strategic consulting and analytics.
[36:00] SPEAKER_03: Recently named to the Inc.
[36:02] SPEAKER_03: 5000 list of fastest-growing companies for the second consecutive year, Propelic works with leading tour operators, hospitality brands, and destinations worldwide to find their next customer in the evolving digital world.
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[36:53] SPEAKER_01: Travel has changed.
[36:54] SPEAKER_01: But many multi-day tour operators are still stuck with spreadsheets and disconnected systems.
[37:00] SPEAKER_01: Today's travelers expect more.
[37:02] SPEAKER_01: More choice, more flexibility, more unforgettable moments.
[37:06] SPEAKER_01: Without the friction.
[37:08] SPEAKER_01: That's where Captio comes in.
[37:10] SPEAKER_01: Built on Salesforce, Captio is a modern platform designed specifically for multi-day tour operators.
[37:16] SPEAKER_01: From tailor-made trips to group tours, from rail to river to crews, we bring your itineraries, bookings, payments, and operations together in one seamless system.
[37:26] SPEAKER_01: With automation, real-time inventory, and supplier integrations, we make complex travel simple.
[37:33] SPEAKER_01: So you can focus on what you do best.
[37:35] SPEAKER_01: Serve travelers, not spreadsheets.
[37:40] SPEAKER_05: And now back to the show.
[37:42] SPEAKER_05: Well, when I ask you about uh having a distinct brand, one of the things that stands out to me is making sure you have a distinct brand voice.
[37:49] SPEAKER_05: A lot of companies haven't figured out, you know, when it comes to uh even hearing the voice of their brand, is it male or female?
[37:55] SPEAKER_05: How old is that person?
[37:56] SPEAKER_05: Like what like who's speaking to them?
[37:58] SPEAKER_05: Because that's the sort of stuff that and it doesn't come until they start making videos and they start doing narration and they have to answer that question of like, what is our brand voice?
[38:06] SPEAKER_05: Um and the the specific question I have for you here is it relates to the age of AI.
[38:12] SPEAKER_05: Everyone's using uh large language models to create content.
[38:16] SPEAKER_05: And I would say I think we all feel pretty overwhelmed by AI slop at the moment.
[38:20] SPEAKER_05: A lot of great platforms are now overwhelmed with generic banal content that clearly has just been generated.
[38:26] SPEAKER_05: And my favorite tool, I'm just gonna share this with everybody, is Pangram.
[38:29] SPEAKER_05: For those of you, there's a various different AI detector platforms.
[38:33] SPEAKER_05: Um, but I write uh my messages on LinkedIn, I'll write them on my phone.
[38:37] SPEAKER_05: And um, and I I actually will take it and I'll put it in Pangram and it'll say 100% Cuban written.
[38:43] SPEAKER_05: And I'm like, yes, because it was.
[38:45] SPEAKER_05: Because I'm always concerned about me writing something and having it thinking it's AI.
[38:48] SPEAKER_05: And so that's my measure of success.
[38:50] SPEAKER_05: And sometimes I'll take other people's posts and I'll drop it into Pangram, and I'm like, outed.
[38:54] SPEAKER_05: That's totally different.
[38:55] SPEAKER_05: Like you had you had nothing to do with that.
[38:56] SPEAKER_05: And I still remember po doing a post about our summit um about welling up, like literally actually the emotional reaction I had to seeing uh our video played in Times Square.
[39:06] SPEAKER_05: And I Laurel kindly responded to be like, I'm sure Dan took that all in stride, and it really made me laugh because I'm like, but that was like I shared something with a personal component, you replied to it.
[39:15] SPEAKER_05: I know that was actually you writing it.
[39:17] SPEAKER_05: And what I'm concerned about that in the times that we now live in is you know, people aren't writing their own emails, they aren't generating their own content.
[39:24] SPEAKER_05: And I'm like, I don't want to read someone's post or read someone's email if I don't hear their actual tone of voice in there.
[39:31] SPEAKER_05: And so I'm more intentional than ever of spelling errors and adding bad grammar in and just like I'm it's raw, it's real, it's me.
[39:38] SPEAKER_05: I make silly jokes.
[39:39] SPEAKER_05: Sometimes they land, sometimes they don't, but you know what, you're gonna get them.
[39:42] SPEAKER_05: And so I would rather default to that because that's something that can't be replicated.
[39:46] SPEAKER_05: That is that's me.
[39:47] SPEAKER_05: That's my own style.
[39:48] SPEAKER_05: And so, Roman, my question to you on this is how important do you see that?
[39:53] SPEAKER_05: I have you're clearly I'm sharing my strong views on this, but you work across a number of clients when they're trying to have a distinctive brand and they're coming to you and you and they're producing press releases and social media content, and like how important, even if it is utilizing these tools to make sure that it sounds like them, because a lot of people have gotten pretty savvy at this, um, that they can use these tools to create a lot of great content, but it still feels real, it still feels authentic and natural.
[40:20] SPEAKER_05: Um, so my question to you, Roman, is how important is that in 2027 for brands?
[40:28] SPEAKER_06: Uh I don't think anything's changed really in as much if you think back to old master paintings, uh painters 500 years ago, shock horror, they didn't actually paint, you know, Rembrandt and people like that didn't actually paint most of the painting.
[40:39] SPEAKER_06: And they had a junior person that would often do the backgrounds, and uh, and then whenever the client asked for a copy, they would have their number two do it and all the rest of it.
[40:47] SPEAKER_06: So, and and shock horror, you know, the CEOs of big companies aren't there, you know, putting people on planes and everything.
[40:53] SPEAKER_06: It's all about delegation, but they are setting the vision and the tone and all the rest of it.
[40:57] SPEAKER_06: And so it's still the same for senior people.
[40:59] SPEAKER_06: So if I consider that the you know the change that's happened for me over the last sort of 10 years or so, I've gone from briefing junior people who would take all day long to produce a press release, and then I'd come and then I would tell them these are the points you want to talk about, and uh, you know, this is how we're gonna do it.
[41:14] SPEAKER_06: And they come back and I have to coach them through it to a point where they can now produce those things a lot more quickly.
[41:18] SPEAKER_06: But the starting point still needs to be me or some other person with you know experience saying, these are the topics you want to talk about, this is the tone you want to have, this is what's really interesting.
[41:27] SPEAKER_06: Um, and and not, you know, going back to the point about you know, our product and we're faster, we're harder, we're louder, because everyone's faster, harder, louder.
[41:35] SPEAKER_06: No one's ever the cheapest, the worst service, you know, the least reliable or whatever.
[41:39] SPEAKER_06: Um, and it it you know, moving away from that, saying instead of something about your product, why don't you launch a campaign because you want to bring about some meaningful change in the industry, or why don't you do some data analysis that could really help people to understand um the knock-on effect of you know refunds in a heat environment, and you know, the heat heat wave environment.
[41:56] SPEAKER_06: And what does that mean for cancellation rates and how can we better anticipate this in a world where we're gonna see more heat waves, and apparently there's gonna be cold waves this winter, and you know, what does all that mean?
[42:06] SPEAKER_06: So I think it's just about that that sort of uh starting point.
[42:09] SPEAKER_06: And you know, I use those tools all the time.
[42:11] SPEAKER_06: You know, I've I worked uh over the last two days with a client, with a little straw man, uh, for what it is we wanted to say and the points they wanted to make.
[42:18] SPEAKER_06: Um, and um once we had that together, I put that all into the tool and we generated it into a bigger document.
[42:24] SPEAKER_06: And I did a lot of editing and all the rest of it, but I've I have no shame about that.
[42:28] SPEAKER_06: Um you know that I don't see that as being any different to five years ago when I got a junior person to write it for me.
[42:33] SPEAKER_06: Um and uh you know the content that can come out can be uh can be very good, but if your starting point isn't the the right one, if the the the correct messaging uh and uh the the emphasis that you want to make, um then you're you're not gonna you're not gonna get anywhere faster.
[42:47] SPEAKER_06: So you know, driving a car when you're lost and just well, if we drive faster, we'll get there quicker.
[42:51] SPEAKER_06: Well, maybe you're not, yeah.
[42:52] SPEAKER_05: Well, speaking of being lost, a lot of brands have pretty unforgettable marketing, I would say.
[42:57] SPEAKER_05: Um and Fabio, yeah, most indeed.
[43:01] SPEAKER_05: Um, Fabio and we wrote is an exception to that.
[43:04] SPEAKER_05: So I want to carry on this question with AI as it relates to you, Fabio.
[43:07] SPEAKER_05: And I'll quickly set the stage uh from this uh for this by saying last night I was uh hanging out with Han Tran, who's uh our designer, he does our website, he does all of our him and I went to university together, he did computer science and then he did art afterwards.
[43:20] SPEAKER_05: He's a unique talent.
[43:22] SPEAKER_05: And I love hanging out with Han, and I was telling him about the plans for the conversation today, and we were trying to create a video for our summit using AI tools, and we're getting really frustrated with it.
[43:32] SPEAKER_05: Um or at least I was, and he was highlighting to me the frustration comes from you know the creativity from the human mind as far as what you're trying to create, and then utilizing these tools to try and assemble something.
[43:42] SPEAKER_05: So there's there's great utility of these tools.
[43:45] SPEAKER_05: You just gave an example there, Roman, where you're utilizing these tools with a client.
[43:49] SPEAKER_05: Uh, my question to Fabio on this topic is that when you're building a great brand, obviously it's taking human minds and uh to make fundamental decisions about a brand.
[44:00] SPEAKER_05: To positioning and even design and logos and uh and creative elements.
[44:05] SPEAKER_05: But at some point, AI gets involved.
[44:07] SPEAKER_05: Sometimes people are using it now for brainstorming.
[44:10] SPEAKER_05: They're using it to come up with campaign ideas.
[44:12] SPEAKER_05: They're like uh they're trying to get original ideas out of AI, um, which based on recursive self-improvement, it seems to be like more and more the case.
[44:19] SPEAKER_05: So you have those people that say it doesn't, it's never had an original thought.
[44:22] SPEAKER_05: It's like, well, actually, things are changing on that front.
[44:24] SPEAKER_05: Um, so Fabio, I'd love to get your take on this with how you see AI fitting into a brand strategy, where you use it uh intentionally, and where you avoid using it because you're just gonna get yourself lost and spinning around in circles because you're you're not the author of the creative, knowing exactly what it is you're trying to achieve and then using these tools to help you create it.
[44:48] SPEAKER_05: Where does AI fit in for you and your marketing team?
[44:51] SPEAKER_00: So it's a very sensitive topic.
[44:54] SPEAKER_00: We are constantly debating with my my team, with my marketing and my brand team.
[45:00] SPEAKER_00: Um first of all, I have to say uh my my take uh uh in general about uh AI, uh AI for in the world of branding, and then I'll tell you what we are doing and and we wrote.
[45:14] SPEAKER_00: Uh what I'm seeing is that AI is very, very accessible, easy to use uh, and a way democratic too.
[45:24] SPEAKER_00: So everyone can uh can build uh stuff in a uh pretty easy fast way, professional stuff.
[45:31] SPEAKER_00: Um also a lot of yes lock, of course.
[45:34] SPEAKER_00: But generally speaking, the level and the quality of the generative products, artifacts is pretty high.
[45:42] SPEAKER_00: The problem is the is that uh the level is the same for everyone.
[45:46] SPEAKER_00: So we have a night level, okay, but everything looks like the same.
[45:52] SPEAKER_00: So the problem again, uh CCI is a matter of efficiency now uh at this point, so the uh cost reduction, um speed increase, etc.
[46:04] SPEAKER_00: But uh what if uh in uh a few weeks or months uh everything looks the same?
[46:12] SPEAKER_00: So what's the point for a brand to look like every other brand?
[46:16] SPEAKER_00: This is my my question, the uh the points that I have.
[46:20] SPEAKER_00: So and uh I think that probably the good the poor quality, we will get rid of the poor quality of the of the in execution, but again, uh everything will be like a grey word in terms of uh personality, brand personality.
[46:34] SPEAKER_00: So I believe that uh either you already have a strong brand personality, you already know uh where is what is your direction, um what is your tone of voice.
[46:48] SPEAKER_00: Again, um for us is a we it's a ton of voice, uh it is not uh neither a woman or a man, uh or young or not, it's a we because it's uh it's a kind of a community.
[46:58] SPEAKER_00: I believe we do know that, we know that we are always uh embedding jokes, uh, this kind of stuff.
[47:06] SPEAKER_00: But at the same time, uh we adopted AI in many, many operational processes.
[47:11] SPEAKER_00: All the parts involving creative operations and so production at scale um is fully automatized now.
[47:18] SPEAKER_00: Um the point is that who is in in the driving seat should be in the known or what it wants to be.
[47:27] SPEAKER_00: Because the grid brands are not built.
[47:29] SPEAKER_00: In my opinion, maybe I'm a kind of I I can look like some some uh catastrophist, so not that positive uh if I look at uh at the future, but uh I believe that you cannot build a brand uh just with AI because everyone else uh will be the same brand.
[47:51] SPEAKER_00: If I'm thinking that the one of the best brands that I've seen in the last years, not uh a travel brand, is Liquid Death.
[47:59] SPEAKER_00: Um in terms of uh they they did the magic way before uh the AI.
[48:06] SPEAKER_00: I don't know if there would be an AI-generated brand uh that strong.
[48:11] SPEAKER_00: Okay.
[48:11] SPEAKER_00: So my point is uh adoption, yes, you have to adopt it, uh but stay in control in the darling seat.
[48:20] SPEAKER_05: And I'm sure this is where, as we're having this conversation, there's gonna be different viewpoints on this.
[48:24] SPEAKER_05: And if uh for those of you listening live that want to all of a sudden jump in and say something, uh you'll get a better chance to do that our at our summit to shape some of the direction because some people say, I I can create a brand using AI, I can create marketing campaigns using AI, I can create a successful business as a one-person operation utilizing these tools.
[48:40] SPEAKER_05: And it's a conversation and a debate that needs to be had.
[48:42] SPEAKER_05: Um the other thing I want to get into in this conversation, since we are gonna have two days of discussion on this topic, and Fabio, you're gonna be back for that, um, is the question about who controls your brand.
[48:54] SPEAKER_05: And this is where I really wanted to get Laurel's take.
[48:56] SPEAKER_05: And again, when I'm preparing for these, I'm like, what are the questions I'd love to ask each of you?
[49:00] SPEAKER_05: And what would our audience wants to make sure I'm gonna cover with you?
[49:02] SPEAKER_05: And when I think about TripAdvisor, I mentioned, of course, the you know, the traveler reviews, the trust layer.
[49:09] SPEAKER_05: But when it actually comes to controlling the uh brand and the narrative, my the bit the big question I have for you, Laurel, is who actually controls your brand in this uh this age?
[49:21] SPEAKER_05: Like, and specifically who controls a brand's reputation?
[49:25] SPEAKER_05: And so you're trying to manage, you know, you were obviously a publicly traded company, you know, you have so much control over, you know, the uh various what people are saying about TripAdvisor.
[49:36] SPEAKER_05: Obviously, you're advocating to have it in the straight uh represented the strongest possible light.
[49:40] SPEAKER_05: Um, but you need to work with communities to do that.
[49:44] SPEAKER_05: So I'd love to get your take on this because I'm sure this comes up for you in meetings and around the executive table all the time, is like the brand's reputation.
[49:53] SPEAKER_05: Who's responsible for managing that internally, your other stakeholders and the community and and and really your your customers?
[50:01] SPEAKER_02: Uh it's definitely the case that there are now more avenues in which brands are talked about.
[50:06] SPEAKER_02: You know, when we were planning this call, you talked about Reddit podcasts, AI, all the different ways that you get talked about now.
[50:13] SPEAKER_02: And I think the answer still, the answer then, the answer now is that we control it.
[50:18] SPEAKER_02: All of these things are just more places where people talk about you, but we still control the most important thing, which is what you give people to say about you.
[50:28] SPEAKER_02: So I don't think anything has really changed there.
[50:30] SPEAKER_02: Yes, there are more avenues to monitor in, there are more avenues to watch, there's more conversations to manage, but at the end of the day, it is just a higher volume of reaction to who you are as a company and what you mean to your customer.
[50:43] SPEAKER_02: Probably a fairly unsatisfying answer because it's a really difficult thing to manage and it takes everyone from like CEO down to your community managers.
[50:50] SPEAKER_02: But I don't think structurally there's any change there.
[50:53] SPEAKER_02: It's just that there are more conversations happening about you, but you still need to be in control of what people say about you, or you need to control what you do in order to get that positive feedback.
[51:07] SPEAKER_05: Well, it's a clear, direct answer, and that's what I would hope and expect from you because you know your stuff.
[51:12] SPEAKER_05: I've seen you on stage a number of times, and that actually is, you know, some people can get lost in their answer to that.
[51:16] SPEAKER_05: I didn't expect that you would.
[51:17] SPEAKER_05: And so your answer to that is obviously we control our brand and we control our destiny.
[51:22] SPEAKER_05: We are the ones that are responsible for going out there with the messaging when it meets the market.
[51:26] SPEAKER_05: Obviously, the market chooses its reaction.
[51:28] SPEAKER_05: So that's a great piece of uh clarification for all of our listeners to know that it's that's a much more empowering approach, I would say, um, than feeling like you're just subject to the waves in the ocean.
[51:40] SPEAKER_05: Um and I so, Roman, I want to get your take on that because you are obviously, you know, your business is PR and shaping reputation.
[51:48] SPEAKER_05: And one of the things I'm I'm keen to know as it relates to that is that you know, when uh the customer experience doesn't support the story, so that's part of the reason when I ask, like, this is what you want to say about yourself, but the guest experience doesn't stack up.
[52:02] SPEAKER_05: And so I, you know, if I use a hotel brand, for an example, they they want to position themselves as ultra luxury or um the best possible service.
[52:09] SPEAKER_05: But if the reviews don't stack up, then that message is gonna fall down or it's gonna get diluted.
[52:15] SPEAKER_05: So, what what is your take on exactly what Laurel just said?
[52:18] SPEAKER_05: When you have customers, when you have your clients come to you saying, this is the position we want to own, and this is the message we want to get across, you're also trying to be mindful of what the reaction in the market is going to be and whether or not they actually can own that position.
[52:32] SPEAKER_05: Or so yeah, what what would be your take on that?
[52:36] SPEAKER_06: What and I think in the the B2B sort of travel tech environment is slightly different because people aren't consuming services in in in quite the same way and they don't have you know formed opinions about based on one individual experience.
[52:47] SPEAKER_06: Um and then also because you know the rest of the world doesn't really care about whether you know particular PMS is harder, faster, louder or whatever.
[52:55] SPEAKER_06: But coming back to the overall sort of point, what I would say, and that's something I've always said for a long time to people about PR, is they say, you know, can PR uh make a bad thing good?
[53:06] SPEAKER_06: Um and I think we all know that you know uh there have been lots of examples throughout history um of where PR has uh made uh you know put a positive spin on bad things, but you can't do it consistently, sooner or later uh you you uh you do get good out.
[53:18] SPEAKER_06: So I caught out.
[53:19] SPEAKER_06: So I don't think um PR can make a bad thing good.
[53:22] SPEAKER_06: People do eventually you know wake up and smell the coffee, see the reality, even if the uh um uh if the media perspective of it is is good, if the day-to-day reality of it is um is different um then uh then then you'll suffer.
[53:36] SPEAKER_06: What I would say is that bad communications can make a good thing bad, and this is something we see regularly, um uh and whether that's just because you're missing out on opportunities by not being out there and talking about what you're doing and engaging, and so you know there's a there's a lost opportunity, uh, or if um you're uh just not managing your communications in the right way and you turn you know good things into bad ones, maybe by not being authentic in a moment when you should say, you know, our hands up, we did make a small mistake, you know, and then it all gets uh blown over.
[54:06] SPEAKER_06: Um so so you know I think that's uh a point um uh worth uh worth considering.
[54:12] SPEAKER_06: And then I think this other the another point worth considering is sometimes what people think is bad PR and uh is um is actually intentional um and people are leaning into it and playing with it.
[54:22] SPEAKER_06: So you think of people being controversial, or spoke earlier about the brand voices and stuff.
[54:26] SPEAKER_06: You think about Ryanair and the kind of you know tone and voice and howligerous belligerent they are, um, but you think about how much they really benefit from that.
[54:33] SPEAKER_06: So um uh, you know, CEO gets into an argument with Elon Musk about he's calling him an idiot or whatever, share price goes up to 10% or something like that.
[54:42] SPEAKER_06: They're billions better off because of some stupid argument, you know?
[54:45] SPEAKER_06: Um, and um that you know the same that can often happen around um other things they say that when you look into it's a little bit more nuanced.
[54:52] SPEAKER_06: And does any of that stockers fly around?
[54:54] SPEAKER_06: I fly regularly around because uh he goes to an airport wherever one of my family lives nearby in the UK rather than go to the other side of London where two hours to the journey.
[55:03] SPEAKER_06: And you know what?
[55:04] SPEAKER_06: I I worked in aviation, I was the director of comms for a Spanish airline called Welling.
[55:08] SPEAKER_06: You know, their operations are the absolute envy of everybody in the aviation industry.
[55:12] SPEAKER_06: They really, really run smoothly and on time.
[55:14] SPEAKER_06: They have turnaround times that no one else can be.
[55:16] SPEAKER_06: So um got to be careful before you label someone's uh comms as um you know bad or negative or not hitting.
[55:25] SPEAKER_06: I would be adventure out there to say about Donald Trump as well.
[55:28] SPEAKER_06: You know, and I think a lot of people over the years uh you know be rightly or wrongly critical of him, but he really knows his audience and he's pressing the right buttons.
[55:35] SPEAKER_06: Um big question, Marco, for motivations and all the rest of it.
[55:38] SPEAKER_06: But nonetheless, um, is he going off script when people say he's going off script?
[55:42] SPEAKER_06: I don't think so.
[55:43] SPEAKER_06: Don't think that guy's ever gone off script.
[55:44] SPEAKER_06: I think he knows what he's doing very well.
[55:46] SPEAKER_05: Only because you brought this up, and for everyone watching this on YouTube, I'm holding up a book of Tony Fernandez, the founder CEO of Air Asia.
[55:54] SPEAKER_05: I had a chance to meet him in Singapore last week, and so this is my signed copy of his book, uh, Flying High.
[55:59] SPEAKER_05: And the image on the cover that I'm sharing is him with his red hat that he became known for long before Trump, and this is speaking about marketing, not politics, just before people get themselves wound up and ready to post something.
[56:12] SPEAKER_05: Um, the red hat, he was part of the uh Apprentice.
[56:17] SPEAKER_05: And Donald Trump came up to him, he told this story on stage, which I found so fascinating.
[56:21] SPEAKER_05: Is that Donald Trump came up to him on one of the days of shooting of the apprentice and asked him, like, what's with the red hat?
[56:28] SPEAKER_05: And he said, I don't have a big marketing budget, so I just say outrageous things and I put them on my hat, and the media talks about it.
[56:34] SPEAKER_05: So make so fancy that.
[56:39] SPEAKER_05: So this is who we have to thank for that um political marketing campaign and the effectiveness of the Make America great again.
[56:46] SPEAKER_05: And so the the interesting thing there is PR messaging marketing strategy.
[56:52] SPEAKER_05: And I want to bring this back full circle to you now, Fabio.
[56:55] SPEAKER_05: And then uh since you mentioned we wrote, you said we, and you talked about we being your brand voice.
[57:02] SPEAKER_05: And my question to you, given where this started with Laurel owning the brand voice, and who owns the Wii Wrote brand voice, and how important are your customers in that when you give that over, the experience and you give over the brand, how much of that control or messaging do you give to the community?
[57:21] SPEAKER_05: How how how involved are they in shaping the opinion and the brand?
[57:26] SPEAKER_00: Uh, first of all, I I just I'd like to build on the red dot that that you mentioned uh and the fact that I don't have a big budget, so I have to do this.
[57:36] SPEAKER_00: And is exactly what we've done and we are keep doing.
[57:40] SPEAKER_00: Uh people think that we are spending a lot of money on offline.
[57:44] SPEAKER_00: We're not spending that that much money.
[57:46] SPEAKER_00: We are just uh having a strategy based on uh marketing stance uh with very punchy lines uh that can attract PRs and they can uh basically uh go around and spread uh almost virally because you cannot project and you cannot design virality, but you can uh create a condition for the virality to happen.
[58:10] SPEAKER_00: So it's something that we are keep doing.
[58:12] SPEAKER_00: We did it when we have no money, okay.
[58:15] SPEAKER_00: We are keep doing now, even with the badges.
[58:18] SPEAKER_00: But just to prove that to corroborate that that uh thesis.
[58:23] SPEAKER_00: Um about the the brand we wrote, that that's the brand we wrote.
[58:28] SPEAKER_00: Um thank you for the question.
[58:30] SPEAKER_00: Uh I used to say that the brand uh is not belonging to us, it's belonging uh to the customers and to the travel coordinators.
[58:39] SPEAKER_00: Um we can, of course, set the tone of voice, uh, but they can recognize themselves in the tone of voice, they can relate to the tone of voice, uh, uh, they can um uh uh share what we are uh saying.
[58:53] SPEAKER_00: But the point is that if a group of people that travel with us they want to, and they do, they want to create their own version of the logo because they want to name their group like uh with France or whatever, that's totally fine.
[59:07] SPEAKER_00: Travel coordinators uh are um doing so uh on a local basis.
[59:13] SPEAKER_00: They they they self they self-organize in chapters in uh in many cities across Europe, now even uh in the US, and they create their own badges, uh their own name.
[59:26] SPEAKER_00: Again, they they distort they even distort the logo because uh now with the AI everything is simple, but three or four years ago, they were like stretching the logo uh and created their own logos, and that's perfectly fine because that to me um um means that the brand is alive, okay.
[59:45] SPEAKER_00: Uh um like we have people that they are they're doing tattoos with our logo.
[59:50] SPEAKER_00: That's crazy, okay.
[59:51] SPEAKER_00: But the point is you have to to give people freedom.
[59:55] SPEAKER_00: You cannot go and say, okay, you you cannot use it.
[59:58] SPEAKER_00: You cannot in the end, it is free advertising.
[1:00:01] SPEAKER_00: It's not perfect, no problem.
[1:00:03] SPEAKER_00: There's someone out there speaking about you, wearing your logo, um talking to friends uh about the experience, and so that's very important.
[1:00:14] SPEAKER_00: To do so, uh I believe that uh the brand uh uh control shouldn't be in the marketing team, the brand should be uh in the boardroom.
[1:00:25] SPEAKER_00: The point is that uh if you don't have this uh consciousness about the importance of the relevance of the brand um at the highest level in the company, you cannot do that because otherwise it will be always uh like uh um putting in a room, putting uh uh in a in a in a bucket, like oh, there are the guys and the marketing guys taking care of the all the communication guys taking care of the brand uh and the brand specs and this stuff.
[1:00:54] SPEAKER_00: This is not about the brand.
[1:00:56] SPEAKER_00: It's just about like graphics uh and policies uh has nothing to do with what people feel, tell, and do about your company.
[1:01:08] SPEAKER_05: Yeah, it's really interesting.
[1:01:09] SPEAKER_05: And that's that that that's a conversation really unto itself as well around uh the customer being in the room when businesses are making decisions.
[1:01:16] SPEAKER_05: You know, there's the empty chair technique that was popularized by Jeff Bezos and the idea that you know you bring the customer into the room.
[1:01:21] SPEAKER_05: And it's interesting, as soon as you layer that in, I can think of many companies I've been in where they definitely don't want the customer in the room.
[1:01:28] SPEAKER_03: We'll be right back.
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[1:03:31] SPEAKER_05: And now back to the show.
[1:03:34] SPEAKER_05: I want to move into the the final question I had for each of you.
[1:03:37] SPEAKER_05: And that is the question about where humans are still relevant in the age of AI.
[1:03:42] SPEAKER_05: And I realize that's a uh that's a big question.
[1:03:45] SPEAKER_05: And I'm not asking in uh the term, I'm asking as it relates to brand, PR, and marketing.
[1:03:51] SPEAKER_05: And so I'd love to get Laurel, let's go back to you, please, to get your take on this.
[1:03:56] SPEAKER_05: Uh and it's it's been really interesting to hear this conversation already with like, you know, you control the brand, Fabio is like, you know, our travelers control the brand.
[1:04:05] SPEAKER_05: And it's just different strategies that different companies embark on.
[1:04:09] SPEAKER_05: And so I think it's interesting for our listeners to to hear different views, different points of views.
[1:04:13] SPEAKER_05: Um, but when it comes to humans, and um when you think about uh your role and the the the I I always try to validate decisions when you're making for travel, is like what what experience would I want as a guest?
[1:04:28] SPEAKER_05: Like I'm always trying to remind myself of why I travel, what are my motivations are, and reminding myself as being a customer.
[1:04:33] SPEAKER_05: How do you look at that at TripAdvisor?
[1:04:36] SPEAKER_05: Like, where are humans still relevant?
[1:04:38] SPEAKER_05: Because at the end of the day, it is still humans that are going on trips and having these great experiences.
[1:04:42] SPEAKER_05: And how do you how do you continue to humanize your brand and make sure that when everyone asks you every day, all day about AI and how you're utilizing AI and how you're becoming AI native and AI first?
[1:04:54] SPEAKER_05: I think what gets lost in that is our customers and the fact that we are, you know, it's all about the human touch and the in-destination experience at the end of the day, which Viator, great example of like, you know, a business that takes people around the world, gives people great in-day experiences, and we're starting to see a contrarian investor approach to these experiences are special, and AI is not going to touch them in any substantial way.
[1:05:18] SPEAKER_05: So I'd love to get your take on that as we wrap up.
[1:05:20] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think I'll give you a story more than an answer.
[1:05:23] SPEAKER_02: So um, around this time last year, I have a a daughter who will be eight in a couple of weeks.
[1:05:28] SPEAKER_02: She was seven at the time.
[1:05:29] SPEAKER_02: I took her on a trip to Iceland, and we were on this tour.
[1:05:34] SPEAKER_02: We had a private guide, his name was Bjorn.
[1:05:36] SPEAKER_02: Bjorn was absolutely fantastic, and we are going past waterfalls, volcanoes.
[1:05:40] SPEAKER_02: I mean, the scenery in Iceland is just absolutely epic.
[1:05:43] SPEAKER_02: But Nina, my daughter, she completely falls in love with the Icelandic horses.
[1:05:48] SPEAKER_02: And I don't know if you guys have seen them, but they are just the most extraordinary little creatures.
[1:05:52] SPEAKER_02: They are just so cute.
[1:05:54] SPEAKER_02: And so he starts picking up on this.
[1:05:56] SPEAKER_02: And um eventually I can tell that we've kind of like gone off track.
[1:06:00] SPEAKER_02: Back a little bit.
[1:06:00] SPEAKER_02: We're half an hour out of our way.
[1:06:02] SPEAKER_02: And what he's done is he has tried to find the perfect spot where she can get up close to these horses.
[1:06:07] SPEAKER_02: And not just that, but he has procured somehow a bag of carrots.
[1:06:11] SPEAKER_02: I don't know how he's gotten them, but he has just magically produced a bag of carrots so that Nina, my my seven-year-old, can feed these horses.
[1:06:19] SPEAKER_02: And she has this moment.
[1:06:20] SPEAKER_02: She turns around and she looks at me, and like it I actually get misty eye just thinking about it.
[1:06:23] SPEAKER_02: She goes, Mama, they look like something out of my imagination.
[1:06:27] SPEAKER_02: Which, like, when your child says that do you just the wonder and joy on her face?
[1:06:31] SPEAKER_02: It's just this moment that I still think about.
[1:06:33] SPEAKER_02: She still talks about.
[1:06:34] SPEAKER_02: She talks about the horses, she talks about Bjorn, and that is the thing that AI is never going to be able to replace.
[1:06:40] SPEAKER_02: It might help me find Bjorn.
[1:06:43] SPEAKER_02: It might help me plan an itinerary with Bjorn.
[1:06:45] SPEAKER_02: It might help me pick my day trips, but it is never going to buy my child a bag of carrots to feed to the amazing Icelandic horses.
[1:06:54] SPEAKER_02: So, from a branding and a communications perspective, like I think that's what we have to remember is that there's always going to be a layer of technology between a consumer and the end product.
[1:07:06] SPEAKER_02: And that layer of technology has to communicate the power and the joy and the wonder of what this product is.
[1:07:12] SPEAKER_02: And that's what I think about.
[1:07:13] SPEAKER_02: I'm taking this from a Viator perspective.
[1:07:15] SPEAKER_02: When I think about Viators, not just marketing, but the way that we merchandise and show the product on site, you've got to be able to communicate the wonder of these experiences.
[1:07:27] SPEAKER_02: You are not just a platform that offers the most flexibility, the best payment types, whatever it may be.
[1:07:32] SPEAKER_02: You are a platform that puts joy on a child's face and a moment that that family will remember.
[1:07:38] SPEAKER_02: I will remember this for the rest of my life.
[1:07:40] SPEAKER_02: And that is what this is.
[1:07:41] SPEAKER_02: And that is the thing that AI will never ever come even close to replicating.
[1:07:45] SPEAKER_05: Love that.
[1:07:46] SPEAKER_05: Love that.
[1:07:46] SPEAKER_05: Thank you for sharing that story.
[1:07:47] SPEAKER_05: And that's uh yeah, it's beautiful.
[1:07:49] SPEAKER_05: Uh, Fabio, I'd love to get your take on this, and then Roman will close out with you.
[1:07:53] SPEAKER_05: But Fabio, humans in the face of AI, you're going to be doing a session specifically on this topic with Shannon Stoll from ATTA.
[1:08:01] SPEAKER_05: Uh, you're going to have Ian coming there from Travel Massive, uh, Annie from Pinnery, all people that are speaking at our conference uh for the first time because they didn't want to speak at an AI conference.
[1:08:11] SPEAKER_05: They want to speak at a conference that is about humans in the age of AI.
[1:08:15] SPEAKER_05: So this is why I'm thrilled that we have the voices, yourself included.
[1:08:18] SPEAKER_05: Set the stage for what you're going to share in that session and how you view this.
[1:08:23] SPEAKER_00: AI will be commoditized, uh, everything will look almost the same.
[1:08:28] SPEAKER_00: Uh so we have to focus on uh what AI cannot replicate is human experiences.
[1:08:34] SPEAKER_00: So the product itself, the the the product the experience of trip for for me uh as paramount is the only thing that uh in a way can um uh prove that we are real, we are not living in uh in a virtual world, and and also is is the part that we as uh operators we are in control of.
[1:08:58] SPEAKER_00: So uh that the human part, the physical part cannot be replicated.
[1:09:02] SPEAKER_00: So we have to focus on that.
[1:09:04] SPEAKER_05: That's great, thank you, Fabio.
[1:09:06] SPEAKER_05: And round us out here, Roman, as we close off the session, with your view, uh, how you brief your clients and what your personal take is on this.
[1:09:15] SPEAKER_06: Well, uh for B2B travel technology companies, you know, obviously it's you know really um about the tech and the human experience.
[1:09:22] SPEAKER_06: Often, you know, a lot of their clients don't necessarily want that human experience, you know.
[1:09:25] SPEAKER_06: They're paying people to automise, outsource, you know, be efficient and and all the rest of it.
[1:09:30] SPEAKER_06: So you've got to you know double down and and and not forget your core mission, whatever that is, to process you know things cheaply more quickly or uh help people with um you know making ancillary sales or or or whatever, um, and and not lose uh not lose sight of that.
[1:09:46] SPEAKER_06: But in terms of the you know the human experience that you can offer in terms of I don't know, customer service and you know million one other touch points, that's yeah, that's very important.
[1:09:52] SPEAKER_06: I shouldn't be lost sight of.
[1:09:54] SPEAKER_06: In terms of just looking at this from purely from the lens of you know what you're doing in PR, come back to the point I made earlier, which is you've got to talk about topics that people really care about.
[1:10:01] SPEAKER_06: And talking about you, you and your product is you know not gonna be no more successful than going on a date and just talking about yourself and not taking an interest in you know the other person.
[1:10:11] SPEAKER_06: Um and um uh the the more you can find, you know, think that you know Venn diagram, you know, what what am I an expert in?
[1:10:20] SPEAKER_06: How does that overlap with uh with things that these people care about in the professional context, not you know uh uh things about their personal life or views on politics or whatever, but professional topics that really that really grab them.
[1:10:32] SPEAKER_06: And just put yours yourself inside the mind of a um you know, a CEO, you know, sat there thinking how can I make my business you know more profitable?
[1:10:40] SPEAKER_06: Um, how can I cut costs?
[1:10:41] SPEAKER_06: Um, you know, how can I grow my market, how can I deal with you know challenges I've got with my team uh or whatever, or you know, converting leads and all these kind of things.
[1:10:49] SPEAKER_06: And find ways to to to get you know data points or views and opinions on their um on their uh on their agenda, on their radar, sorry, um in a way that we'll engage them and get those conversations out of.
[1:11:02] SPEAKER_06: And I don't think you know AI can help us get there more more quickly, more efficiently in the same way that calculators, you know, years ago and then you know basic computing and so on could help people crunch numbers more quickly.
[1:11:13] SPEAKER_06: Um but you know, using the sort of calculator analogy, unless you know you know what the what it is you're the challenge you're trying to um overcome and that you know the the the sums that you want to do, it's um it's it's not much use to you.
[1:11:25] SPEAKER_06: Um and the you know the human and emotional element of the things that people really are caring about and are interested in in their business is is the ones that you probably want to target in a B2B tech environment without being too emotional.
[1:11:38] SPEAKER_06: Uh, you know, when they be too personal, you know, just think about professional challenges um they've got.
[1:11:42] SPEAKER_06: And the brands that that do that very well in that space um are the ones that yeah, just go beyond talking about their um their their their products.
[1:11:52] SPEAKER_06: And there are many good examples of it, really.
[1:11:54] SPEAKER_06: I mean, I'm not gonna I'm not gonna highlight anyone because I think by doing so I'd be um you've been critical of it with pretty much everyone else, but there really aren't many companies that are very good at doing that.
[1:12:03] SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
[1:12:04] SPEAKER_05: Well, one thing I've learned from working with you, Roman, and getting to know the last couple years is even though you're in PR, you don't sugarcoat anything.
[1:12:10] SPEAKER_05: You you say it how it is, and if anything, you're like um uh brutally honest.
[1:12:16] SPEAKER_05: And actually, I find that refreshing in PR.
[1:12:19] SPEAKER_05: And one of the reasons that I actually enjoy working with you.
[1:12:21] SPEAKER_05: And so uh I think that's a great way to finish.
[1:12:24] SPEAKER_05: I just wanted to say uh a big thank you to uh Laurel, Roman, Fabio.
[1:12:29] SPEAKER_05: This is exactly the way I had envisioned this series starting.
[1:12:32] SPEAKER_05: So, like a perfect way to kick off talking about marketing, not just talking about AI, not just talking about performance marketing, but talking about brand, communication, human story.
[1:12:41] SPEAKER_05: So thank you, Fabio.
[1:12:42] SPEAKER_05: Thank you, Laurel.
[1:12:43] SPEAKER_05: Thank you, Roman.
[1:12:43] SPEAKER_05: Thanks for your time.
[1:12:44] SPEAKER_05: Thank you, Tom.
[1:12:45] SPEAKER_05: It's a great debate.
[1:12:47] SPEAKER_05: And thanks to all of our listeners for joining us for episode one of our three-part series with our friends over at Propelic.
[1:12:53] SPEAKER_05: And as I said, I mean, this was exactly the way I envisioned this conversation to start.
[1:12:57] SPEAKER_05: I hope you got a lot of benefit out of uh hearing from Laurel, Roman, and Fabio.
[1:13:01] SPEAKER_05: Both Roman and Fabio will be back in a couple of weeks for our summit.
[1:13:04] SPEAKER_05: Laurel will be around as well, and you'll Laurel will be involved in future podcasts.
[1:13:08] SPEAKER_05: So you're gonna hear from all of them here on our platform again in the future because they understand trust, voice, community storytelling, and what's real in travel today.
[1:13:18] SPEAKER_05: And that's the story that I want us to be sharing and showcasing and for all of our listeners to learn and benefit from.
[1:13:24] SPEAKER_05: But next week, we're gonna follow the money.
[1:13:26] SPEAKER_05: So part two of our marketing series is about performance marketing and data attribution.
[1:13:31] SPEAKER_05: That critical question that everyone asks of my marketing dollars, I know half is effective, but I don't know which half, that old line.
[1:13:37] SPEAKER_05: This is where performance marketing has become a drug for most businesses that uh are addicted to seeing attribution.
[1:13:45] SPEAKER_05: And I that's why I want to have a discussion about performance and attribution.
[1:13:49] SPEAKER_05: And when we talk about attribution, I'm gonna bring it back to the conversation we just had now about how important brand is in playing a role, playing an assist, because we know paid media uh ends up kicking a lot of goals.
[1:14:00] SPEAKER_05: But there's seven or eight steps on that journey that got someone to do that Google search before they made a booking.
[1:14:06] SPEAKER_05: And I think that's the important story we need to uh uncover as well.
[1:14:10] SPEAKER_05: And then episode three, when we bring in Brennan, we're gonna talk about AI visibility and the report that Laurel just mentioned that they released last week that everyone is gravitating to because it's such valuable information that everyone wants to understand.
[1:14:22] SPEAKER_05: In the age of SEO decline, everyone wants to know how they show up in any of the large language models.
[1:14:28] SPEAKER_05: So thank you again to Brennan and the Propellic team for sponsoring this series.
[1:14:32] SPEAKER_05: And before you go, make sure you do connect with us on social and you can see clips and highlights from this conversation.
[1:14:37] SPEAKER_05: Since it wasn't video, you can see the Tony Fernandez red hat for yourself if you check out our YouTube channel or clips on LinkedIn, Instagram, and uh uh TikTok as well, all at Travel Trends Podcasts.
[1:14:48] SPEAKER_05: Don't forget to sign up for our monthly newsletter so you know when everything's coming out.
[1:14:52] SPEAKER_05: And make sure you're registered for our summit October 28th and 29th.
[1:14:55] SPEAKER_05: It's free to join.
[1:14:56] SPEAKER_05: Thanks to all of our sponsors.
[1:14:58] SPEAKER_05: Thanks again for joining us, and until next week, safe travels.

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