# How LivTours Is Defining Small Group Travel

An episode of [Travel Trends with Dan Christian](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1689330635), 27 Aug 2026, 1 h 03 min.

Audio: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2172036/episodes/19712998-how-livtours-is-defining-small-group-travel.mp3

Send us Fan Mail There’s one rule LivTours refuses to compromise on: no more than six guests per tour. In this Company Spotlight, Dan sits down with Angelo Carotenuto, Founder and Co-owner, and Kristin Karstendotter, Co-owner of LivTours, to explore how that simple decision helped shape a very different kind of tour company. Angelo and Kristin explain why six isn’t just a number. Smaller groups remove many of the things travellers have come to associate with traditional sightseeing, from following flags and listening through headsets to being rushed through an attraction on a fixed script. Instead, guides can have real conversations, adjust the experience on the fly, and create the kind of personal connection that travelers remember long after they return home. We go back to LivTours’ beginnings, when Angelo was guiding on the streets of Rome, and explore how Kristin brought the operational discipline needed to scale that original idea across multiple countries and hundreds of curated experiences. They share the realities of making small-group tours profitable, why guides find the six-person format more demanding but ultimately more rewarding, and how smaller groups can open doors to more intimate experiences, even in incredibly busy places like the Vatican Museums. The conversation also looks at what’s next for LivTours, from the growth of its family and luxury travel offerings to the upcoming launch of Madrid, all while keeping the same people-first philosophy at the heart of the business. Sustainability is another big part of the discussion. Kristin shares how LivTours works with eCollective to measure the carbon footprint of more than 350 tours, while Angelo explains how local guides, direct relationships with suppliers, lower-impact transportation, and guest education all play a role in building a more responsible tourism model. And, of course, we talk technology and AI. For LivTours, the opportunity isn’t to replace the guide or automate away the human side of travel. It’s to use technology behind the scenes so the people delivering the experience can be even better at what they do. Because as travel becomes more automated, LivTours is making a compelling bet on the opposite: that the experiences we value most will be the ones that still feel genuinely personal, spontaneous, and human. Learn more at livtours.com. The #1 B2B Travel Podcast Globally. Over 100 Episodes. Listeners in 125 countries. New Episodes Every Weds. https://www.traveltrendspodcast.com/

## Chapters

- 0:05 Why Six People Matters
- 4:51 Angelo’s Path Into Tour Guiding
- 12:05 Kristen Joins And Brings Order
- 15:23 How Six Became The Rule
- 20:04 The Real Cost Of Staying Small
- 25:45 New Verticals And Expanding To Madrid
- 32:50 Personalization And Unreasonable Hospitality
- 36:09 Sustainability Beyond A Mission Statement
- 43:18 Measuring Carbon With eCollective
- 45:03 Technology And AI Behind The Scenes
- 52:39 Future Growth, Legacy, And Partnering
- 1:01:30 Where To Find LivTours

## Transcript

[0:05] SPEAKER_02: Hello, everyone.
[0:06] SPEAKER_02: Welcome back to the Travel Trends Podcast.
[0:08] SPEAKER_02: This is your host, Dan Christian.
[0:10] SPEAKER_02: And today we have a special spotlight episode for you that I'm really keen to bring these two next guests into the conversation, having met them over the course of the last year and to get to know more about LiveTours and this incredible business that they have built.
[0:25] SPEAKER_02: But to give you some context with today's spotlight, this is a company that has built its entire identity around a single stubborn number.
[0:34] SPEAKER_02: That number is six.
[0:35] SPEAKER_02: And I remember them mentioning this to me when we were sitting across from each other at the arrival conference in Valencia a little earlier this year.
[0:42] SPEAKER_02: And what really stood out to me is that is the maximum group size for every live tour, whether it's a walking tour through Rome, a cooking class in Florence, or a private day trip through the Spanish countryside.
[0:54] SPEAKER_02: And when I got to hear the background on this remarkable company and family business, it all goes back to 2004 when Angelo was leading tours on the streets of Rome.
[1:05] SPEAKER_02: By 2009, he'd actually founded the company, then called Live Italy Tours, hence where the name comes from, on the belief that travelers didn't just want to visit a place, they really wanted to live it.
[1:16] SPEAKER_02: And in 2012, Angelo met Kristen, who you'll meet in a moment, a logistics expert from Sweden, and she came on board to help scale what had started as a small personal operation into something much bigger without losing what has made it so special.
[1:32] SPEAKER_02: And that balance is really the whole story of this company.
[1:35] SPEAKER_02: LiveTours has expanded from Rome into Spain, France, England, Austria, and Germany, and now offers more than 350 experiences across Europe, but they have never budged on the six-person cap.
[1:49] SPEAKER_02: Along the way, sustainability has become core to their brand, where they focus on hiring local guides and supporting local businesses.
[1:56] SPEAKER_02: So on that note, joining me today are the two people who built this from the ground up, Angelo, founder and co-owner, and Kristen, co-owner of Live Tours.
[2:05] SPEAKER_02: And we're going to get into why six became that magic number, how a family-run business scales across six countries without losing its culture, and what sustainability tourism looks like in practice, not just a mission statement.
[2:18] SPEAKER_02: And that was clear for me and meeting them both.
[2:21] SPEAKER_02: This is not a company, as Angelo told me in person, that they're looking to build and sell.
[2:25] SPEAKER_02: This is a business they're looking to run and will continue to be a family business that offers premium experiential travel over the next five, 10, 20 years.
[2:35] SPEAKER_02: So on that note, Angelo, Kristen, welcome to Travel Trends.
[2:38] SPEAKER_02: Great to see you both again.
[2:40] SPEAKER_02: Angelo, tell us where you guys are and how your summer is.
[2:43] SPEAKER_01: Hey, Dan.
[2:44] SPEAKER_01: Thanks for having us, first of all.
[2:47] SPEAKER_01: We are luckily spending a week in the Dolomites, still working, but taking some breaks with some cool hikes with the children or bike rides or things like this.
[2:59] SPEAKER_02: Well, and just one thing about you, Angelo, that our listeners should know as well.
[3:02] SPEAKER_02: When we first met and your English, I mean, my first thought was he's an American that's moved to Italy.
[3:08] SPEAKER_02: And it actually turns out, no, you're born and raised in Italy, but your mom was American.
[3:12] SPEAKER_02: So that's how you perfected the accent at an early age.
[3:15] SPEAKER_02: Is that right?
[3:16] SPEAKER_02: That's correct.
[3:17] SPEAKER_02: I cheated.
[3:18] SPEAKER_01: I was raised bilingual.
[3:20] SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
[3:21] SPEAKER_02: And uh and Kristen, obviously, it was a pleasure to meet you in person.
[3:24] SPEAKER_02: And and I actually, when I went up to Kristen, I was I was saying to Angelo, I met your wife earlier saying it's like she was standing right next to him.
[3:30] SPEAKER_02: I was like, but I was so fixated on having the conversation with Angelo because you guys were such a dynamic couple, and the the company story was so fascinating, which is why I'm so delighted to be doing the spotlight episode.
[3:40] SPEAKER_02: But Kristen, welcome to Travel Trends as well.
[3:42] SPEAKER_02: Tell everyone a bit about your background.
[3:45] SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.
[3:46] SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I'm from Sweden originally and uh moved to Italy, like you said, in 2012, where I knocked on a door looking for a place to live.
[3:56] SPEAKER_00: Angelo opened the door, and yeah, the rest is history.
[4:01] SPEAKER_02: Oh, it's amazing.
[4:02] SPEAKER_02: It's it's it's it's a love story, it's a family story, it's got all the hallmarks of a really special spotlight episode.
[4:08] SPEAKER_02: And that's why I wanted to start with that, because um, what you've also built is a remarkably successful company that has scaled so successfully.
[4:16] SPEAKER_02: And obviously, when we're having this conversation, just navigating you know summer 2026 and planning for 2027.
[4:23] SPEAKER_02: Um, but in terms of the background on Live Tours, obviously I gave our listeners some context.
[4:28] SPEAKER_02: But Angelo, I'd love you to start and um Kristen, please add to us.
[4:31] SPEAKER_02: But uh for the for those of our listeners that are not familiar with Live Tours, they've seen the cover, they're intrigued by this episode, they've heard a little bit about the story.
[4:39] SPEAKER_02: Tell us a little bit more about what inspired you to build it and why you were on the streets of Rome just working solo at one point.
[4:46] SPEAKER_02: Like what got you into this industry and tell us a little bit more about the history of Live Tours.
[4:51] SPEAKER_01: Well, what got me into this industry is completely um it requires an entire other podcast episode.
[4:57] SPEAKER_01: Let's start with that.
[4:59] SPEAKER_01: But I was in the performing arts uh during that time.
[5:03] SPEAKER_01: And uh yes, I'm born and raised in Rome, but my parents have um a music association here in Italy had actually, they don't have anymore.
[5:15] SPEAKER_01: And every summer they would put up uh extraordinary operas in a 1500 courtyard called Santiba La Sapienza, uh, where if the listener has been to Rome, they may recognize the spiral dome of the Borromini.
[5:29] SPEAKER_01: Well, that's the church.
[5:30] SPEAKER_01: In that courtyard, they used to put up summer festivals.
[5:33] SPEAKER_01: And at that time, I was attending college in Los Angeles and needing to come back to Rome to spend my summers with my friends, with my family, and be part of the show.
[5:41] SPEAKER_01: And they would cast 80 or 90 singers from all over the US to be part of these productions.
[5:48] SPEAKER_01: And I, those were my first summers experiencing being a Cicero through the city, uh, showing off our treasures, booking them restaurants, taking them to museums and so forth.
[6:01] SPEAKER_01: Well, summer of 2003, from Beknowns to me, six people never took their flight back home after the summer, um, only later to discover that they remained in Rome and have become tour guides, which I found out the next summer.
[6:21] SPEAKER_01: And that's how uh thanks to them, thanks to these six people, uh, six opera singers, I got into tour guiding at that time.
[6:29] SPEAKER_01: And then between 2004 to 2009, um, of course, life is much more complex than these few minutes, but um, I was capable of exposing myself to the best tour guiding gym that one could possibly desire at the beginning of their career.
[6:48] SPEAKER_01: So I, yes, I was solo tour guiding in the city or doing free promos.
[6:53] SPEAKER_01: I was also taking uh school buses of 50 children across 12 cities in Europe.
[7:00] SPEAKER_01: I was doing VIPs, cruise ships, and so forth.
[7:02] SPEAKER_01: And there was a moment where something clicked.
[7:07] SPEAKER_01: And I realized that it didn't really matter how dedicated and how in love I was with the profession.
[7:13] SPEAKER_01: Um, there was a different interaction when the group size changed, and there was a different type of satisfaction, inner satisfaction in people when the service was delivered with through connection.
[7:27] SPEAKER_01: Um, and connection really kind of disappeared and dissipated by eliminating flags and headsets and being capable of looking into people's eyes and allow for conversation, for discussion, even if completely off point.
[7:41] SPEAKER_01: Um but besides that, then there was another discovery, another epiphany, which was that people, even at that time where the activity industry was still very embryonal, um, was going by a list.
[7:55] SPEAKER_01: Whether it was TripAdvisor or blogs or forums giving them the things to do, um, ultimately that didn't match what they were dreaming of doing and experiencing uh with intention while vacationing in Italy.
[8:10] SPEAKER_01: So I felt I needed to solve these issues.
[8:12] SPEAKER_01: I needed to serve the client that had this aspiration of living my country and not exploiting it for the sole purpose of taking a trip and then um transforming every one of those Italian stereotypes that they were dreaming about into services, into tours, into experiences.
[8:31] SPEAKER_02: Well, I've got one additional question I want to ask you about that, and then obviously I want to bring Kristen in the conversation as well, given your background and how you complement each other.
[8:39] SPEAKER_02: But when you started the business in 2009, and obviously Kristen comes in in 2012, one of the things that you were very focused on, given your background and expertise, obviously, was crafting really meaningful tours.
[8:51] SPEAKER_02: And so I mentioned the number six.
[8:52] SPEAKER_02: Obviously, that's one key aspect that I'm keen to get into with you, just as far as like that being the optimum number.
[8:58] SPEAKER_02: From my experience, I can see a number of reasons why it would be.
[9:01] SPEAKER_02: But one of the things that also stood out to me too, Angelo, and for our listeners, uh, live tours.com, L-I-V-T-O-R-U-S.com is the website you can follow along while you're multitasking.
[9:12] SPEAKER_02: And one of the things you'll see is that under tours, you have the incredible range of destinations, but also the list of categories, you know, whether it be museums or archaeology or, you know, uh culinary experiences, all the things that people are looking for, even things like women's history and cooking classes.
[9:27] SPEAKER_02: Um, when you started, tell us a little bit about the what you wanted to make unique and different about LiveTours with the experiences you wanted to offer.
[9:35] SPEAKER_02: Because clearly there was something right there at the core in terms of the guest experience that people latched onto because this business has grown through referral and word of mouth.
[9:44] SPEAKER_02: People have take your tours and they tell other people, and it grows and it grows.
[9:48] SPEAKER_02: And here we are, nearly 20 years later.
[9:50] SPEAKER_02: Um, so tell us a little bit more about the concept for Live Tours that you wanted to do something that was unique in the marketplace.
[9:57] SPEAKER_01: That just made me feel very old.
[10:00] SPEAKER_01: 20 years.
[10:02] SPEAKER_01: Um You know, now the term is butchered.
[10:05] SPEAKER_01: Um, at that time uh it really wasn't.
[10:08] SPEAKER_01: And it's the authenticity that you need to create through uh connecting experiences, uh connecting people, um, and making sure and and and and and allowing the local to find the space for what we now call unreasonable hospitality, or what now Will Ghidara calls unreasonable hospitality.
[10:31] SPEAKER_01: But back in the day there was no terminology, no, no, no coined term for it.
[10:36] SPEAKER_01: But you needed, I wanted, I wanted the experience to um to uh enable uh sort of uh well, I I called a goosebumps back in the day.
[10:47] SPEAKER_01: The whole point, every tour I led, didn't matter the group size.
[10:51] SPEAKER_01: So now I'm talking about my my gym.
[10:53] SPEAKER_01: Uh my objective was I need to get to a point where this person is gonna come to me at the end of the tour, during the tour, and say, this is absolutely remarkable.
[11:01] SPEAKER_01: It's memorable.
[11:03] SPEAKER_01: You are um, you are changing my viewpoint, changing my life.
[11:07] SPEAKER_01: This is gonna be something I tell my children, uh, I tell my grandchildren.
[11:11] SPEAKER_01: And that that's that that's a spark.
[11:14] SPEAKER_01: So every experience, every we call them verticals nowadays that we're a bigger business.
[11:18] SPEAKER_01: Uh, but that's the whole point.
[11:20] SPEAKER_01: People have so many ways they wish to experience a culture, whether it's through women's history or via their children's entertainment and memorable moments, or soft vehicles, um, vestfas, or through wine and through food, or through museums.
[11:37] SPEAKER_01: We need, we wanted to approach um or to give the 360 degrees opportunities, or I wanted, because it was a solo business, 360-degree opportunity to to the client to be able to experience that in every one of the two or three destinations that I explored back in the day.
[11:56] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's great.
[11:57] SPEAKER_02: And obviously, Kristen, you saw this and like, obviously, not only is this this great guy, Angelo, but there's this great business that you and um became a part of.
[12:04] SPEAKER_02: Your background, interestingly, was in logistics.
[12:07] SPEAKER_02: And I remember when I was uh chatting with you both, I could see that there's a compliment.
[12:10] SPEAKER_02: Obviously, you guys are you know a lovely couple, but then there's also the business side when you guys have to find a way to complement each other to work together all the time.
[12:17] SPEAKER_02: So tell us a little bit more about your background and the strengths, I guess, that you bring to the business, which uh were obvious to me, but tell us a little bit more about your role.
[12:26] SPEAKER_00: So it was different, obviously, when I started it in 2012, because Angelo was still practicing as a tour guide.
[12:34] SPEAKER_00: So I was the one who would then do most of the emails or planning the experiences.
[12:41] SPEAKER_00: Um I would also bike around Rome and shake everyone's hand.
[12:46] SPEAKER_00: And I remember the day when we had five tours, five tours in one day, and that felt insane.
[12:53] SPEAKER_00: Like, how can I manage to to go around and actually shake everyone's hand?
[12:57] SPEAKER_00: But it's all obviously that feels kind of silly these days when we have way more tours than that.
[13:03] SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah, so back in the day it was a lot about the operations, and then I would say that today we're complement each other really well, even though we don't have any particular role.
[13:18] SPEAKER_00: Even though Angela is clearly a very artistic soul, he's also a very clever business person.
[13:25] SPEAKER_00: I have I do love to be creative and work on, for example, the children's tours that are very one of our bestsellers, one of the verticals, and developing children's books as well to give to the clients after the tours, uh, as well as working, you know, in the finest aspect and and such like that.
[13:45] SPEAKER_01: Christine brought order.
[13:47] SPEAKER_01: Christine brought order um to the chaos and and and managed something that could only scale thanks to her abilities, but then she's extraordinarily creative and artistic as well.
[13:59] SPEAKER_01: So things have shifted around through the 20, 20, 20 years.
[14:04] SPEAKER_00: Remember also I'm Swedish then, so I cannot say anything good about myself about this.
[14:11] SPEAKER_02: Well, in that case, I'll give you a chance to say something um good about the company.
[14:16] SPEAKER_02: Because one of the other things I wanted to ask you, given that you, when you joined the business, this is, you know, has become very much a family business.
[14:22] SPEAKER_02: But one of the things we've seen in our industry is that you know, family-owned businesses in the travel space can be very successful when you really care about the guest.
[14:29] SPEAKER_02: And, you know, the uh focus is not just a profit motive, it is really making a guest have an incredible experience.
[14:35] SPEAKER_02: And one of the taglines, or I guess the main tagline um for LiveTours is actually live a destination rather than simply visit it.
[14:43] SPEAKER_02: And so I'm keen to know from your vantage point, you know, coming into the business and seeing it grow and scale.
[14:48] SPEAKER_02: What do you think is uniquely special about Live Tours and how do you guys deliver on that concept of living a destination rather than just sightseeing?
[14:57] SPEAKER_00: The difference, because everyone can create something that is, you know, you just find a nonna and you make her cook for you or whatever.
[15:04] SPEAKER_00: But the difference really is the family aspect of it.
[15:08] SPEAKER_00: Being together, creating something together, having a company that is a baby that you're, you know, bringing up from again five tours in a day or not even up to what it is today.
[15:22] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's great.
[15:23] SPEAKER_02: And obviously, one of the key aspects to your success has been this power of six.
[15:27] SPEAKER_02: And I wanted to ask Angelo about that because you know, when you got the business started, and it this is something that seems to be core to your business foundation success, and the maximum group size being six, that's significantly smaller than most small group tours.
[15:43] SPEAKER_02: But why did you find six to be the magic number?
[15:47] SPEAKER_01: Um to be completely honest with you, it it kind of came by chance.
[15:52] SPEAKER_01: Um and it was because when we were uh trying to replicate in the so as Christine said, um we uh we really cared for the out-of-the-ordinary experiences or the cooking class and then the fry experiences, etc.
[16:09] SPEAKER_01: But back in the day, those that could not provide sufficient volume uh to run the business.
[16:14] SPEAKER_01: So ultimately, alas, traditional tours were going to be our backbone.
[16:19] SPEAKER_01: So your Vatican Museum, your Coliseum, your Uffizi, your academia, and so forth.
[16:24] SPEAKER_01: But we wanted to make sure that these really felt different.
[16:28] SPEAKER_01: And they actually were purposefully as close as possible to our number one value, which was enable somebody's dream.
[16:34] SPEAKER_01: So, Dan, let me entertain you for a second.
[16:36] SPEAKER_01: Let me entertain the listeners with a little anecdote that kind of brought us to this conclusion.
[16:41] SPEAKER_01: You're a lawyer in New York, and you're dreaming of seeing the Sistine Chapel.
[16:47] SPEAKER_01: Um, in your dream, you hopefully you have a tour guide with you, and he or she is taking you through the Vatican Museums, and you get to the Sisting Chapel, and in your dream, you have this person speaking to you while showing you Michelangelo's beautiful frescoes.
[17:00] SPEAKER_01: Does the person, does the tour guide, have a microphone?
[17:04] SPEAKER_01: And do you, are you wearing headsets?
[17:06] SPEAKER_01: Probably not.
[17:07] SPEAKER_01: Is the tour guide holding a dirty flag?
[17:10] SPEAKER_01: Probably not.
[17:12] SPEAKER_01: So when we realized that we needed to eliminate these very traditional and very um uh touch points that felt very that turned people off, actually, to our concept of travel, um, we had to reduce the group size to where these elements were not necessary.
[17:30] SPEAKER_01: And our major uh revenue provider was the Vatican Museums, and the Vatican Museums said no headsets under seven people.
[17:38] SPEAKER_01: So then we're like, okay, great.
[17:40] SPEAKER_01: So our group size is going to be six.
[17:43] SPEAKER_01: And that's the that's that's how it started, really.
[17:45] SPEAKER_01: It's it is by chance, to be completely honest with you.
[17:48] SPEAKER_01: Um, but then we realized that the feedback that we were getting from people, and so go, there goes your word of mouth.
[17:54] SPEAKER_01: We're a small company, profit per tour is so minimal, it's so unutilizable that the only growth can come from word of mouth.
[18:01] SPEAKER_01: The only growth growth can come from reviews, organic reviews.
[18:04] SPEAKER_01: And we realized that people were hammering on this.
[18:07] SPEAKER_01: It was so great to have only another couple on the tour.
[18:10] SPEAKER_01: It was so great to converse, to not have headsets and so forth, and being able to transport it by the tour guide's passion, no matter the venue at that point.
[18:19] SPEAKER_01: And so that was sort of like our pinky promise uh that Christine and I made.
[18:24] SPEAKER_01: And we said to ourselves, back in 2014, I guess that was really when we realized the power of six, which is then we said, no matter where we go, no matter what museum we do, no matter what type of tour we do, if it's a cooking school or if it's a uh rowing class, it needs to be no more than six people because this is what people are getting hooked on.
[18:44] SPEAKER_01: They were getting hooked on.
[18:46] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's fascinating.
[18:47] SPEAKER_02: I appreciate you sharing that because that I didn't realize that uh specific backstory to how it came about by um uh by chance, but it reminds me of when you had the large group tour operators that people were pushing back on because they didn't want to be herded through uh a city with following someone with a flag, some of the negative connotations that people have with touring, um, and particularly with coach touring.
[19:11] SPEAKER_02: You had a lot of these adventure travel companies that have come along and created opportunities for small groups, which are more like 12 to 18, to be able to ride local transport.
[19:22] SPEAKER_02: And that fundamentally changed the small group guided touring experience, made it far more immersive.
[19:27] SPEAKER_02: You can engage with locals, um, you're no longer on a coach and you can you can go into locals' homes, you can and you can be much more uh immersed in the communities you're visiting.
[19:37] SPEAKER_02: And that has been a game changer for that entire category of travel.
[19:41] SPEAKER_02: Once you had that unlock about a group of six, how did that fundamentally change the guest experience you could then offer in every destination?
[19:48] SPEAKER_02: Because obviously it's it starts with the Sistine Chapel, but all of a sudden now you're like, wait a second, we don't need headsets, we have a smaller group.
[19:55] SPEAKER_02: What did you then realize that enabled you to do differently to make sure that every small group of six was having a fantastic experience?
[20:04] SPEAKER_02: Mm-hmm.
[20:05] SPEAKER_01: Um it it wasn't an easy task.
[20:09] SPEAKER_01: I'll start with that.
[20:10] SPEAKER_01: Um, to be able to uh replicate that.
[20:14] SPEAKER_01: Um imagine every destination and every experience has different costs.
[20:20] SPEAKER_01: Uh and so to be able to price it correctly was extraordinarily hard uh without being completely out of market.
[20:27] SPEAKER_01: Um so that was the very first challenge.
[20:30] SPEAKER_01: Find the right balance between costs and profitability, because ultimately filling up a group even of six and being profitable and privately owned, it is a um it does show customer satisfaction ultimately, right?
[20:46] SPEAKER_01: Um but again we the being a people first company, we realized that um every stakeholder that was part of the experience um would never have gone back um to larger group tours once they've experienced this formula.
[21:06] SPEAKER_01: So yes, the client, as I said, would write incredible feedback and reviews about the formula, but the tour guide, the tour guides were absolutely addicted.
[21:16] SPEAKER_01: You know, one time an incredible tour guide, she's her name is Tiffany.
[21:20] SPEAKER_01: She has she's a graduate of Notre Dame.
[21:22] SPEAKER_01: You know, she's like a super intelligent person.
[21:24] SPEAKER_01: She comes up to me, she says, uh, you know, I work for this other operator, I'm not gonna make names.
[21:29] SPEAKER_01: And they run groups of 25, and you go on, you guys do groups of six.
[21:33] SPEAKER_01: I'll tell you the main difference.
[21:34] SPEAKER_01: Group of 25, physically exhausting.
[21:37] SPEAKER_01: Physically exhausting.
[21:39] SPEAKER_01: Group of six, mentally exhausting.
[21:42] SPEAKER_01: But that ultimately tells you that that is that is the goal.
[21:47] SPEAKER_01: You need to be mentally exhausting.
[21:48] SPEAKER_01: You need to be challenged in your profession.
[21:50] SPEAKER_01: You need to be able to every day, every tour, find something different to discuss, to operate, to um uh to show to your client.
[22:00] SPEAKER_01: If you're just pressing play and going on a script, like you would do for a group of 25, then ultimately it's only physically exhausting.
[22:07] SPEAKER_01: And when she said that, I was like, okay, great.
[22:09] SPEAKER_01: Then the suppliers who talk about local restaurants, um, you talk about museums.
[22:13] SPEAKER_01: When we tell museums, when we tell local restaurants, businesses, driving services, boat services that we only do six people, they're like, they tilt their their their head like a little dog, and then they experience it.
[22:26] SPEAKER_01: And they're like, this changes everything.
[22:29] SPEAKER_01: I'm not, I I I want to work only with you guys.
[22:32] SPEAKER_00: Even though we can also, I mean, some venues also have a hard time understanding it and makes it harder for us to actually accomplish to do groups of six because they're completely unused to it.
[22:43] SPEAKER_00: So if you want uh sometimes when you want an exclusive entrance or something like that, they put a high number and they don't accept you to put more than one tour guide, for example.
[22:53] SPEAKER_00: So sometimes we do have challenges with that.
[22:57] SPEAKER_02: For sure.
[22:57] SPEAKER_02: Because they, like you as a business, you've obviously made the commercial decision to keep the group size limited, whereas most companies, they're very focused on a larger group size, more profitability, and managing yield is obviously one of the things I'm so familiar with with running larger group tours, is you're trying to fill the coach because you have a fixed expense of the coach itself.
[23:17] SPEAKER_02: So the more uh seats that are taken, the more profitable the trip becomes.
[23:21] SPEAKER_02: So I've I've been in meetings where the comment about smaller groups is there's no money in it.
[23:26] SPEAKER_02: And so what I what I love about what you guys have built, and part of the reason I wanted to create this spotlight episode together, is to be able to showcase that story of the fact you've been able to build a very successful, meaningful business, a profitable business with a small group offering.
[23:40] SPEAKER_02: And and one of the things I wanted just to take a step further, and Christine, maybe this is something for you to speak to is what experiences that you can have as a small group that just don't work for larger groups.
[23:51] SPEAKER_02: So I take your point.
[23:51] SPEAKER_02: If you're looking at a restaurant, some of them are used to dealing with large groups, but those aren't the restaurants you obviously want to go to.
[23:59] SPEAKER_02: You want to go to the smaller restaurants or the ones that are where locals frequent, where you can mix in comfortably.
[24:05] SPEAKER_02: So tell us what are some of the experiences that wouldn't work for large groups that you have in your offering that uh our listeners should know about.
[24:14] SPEAKER_00: I would say all, to be honest.
[24:16] SPEAKER_00: Because even if you do a regular Vatican tour or just passing through the museum is at a different ease when you are in a group of six people.
[24:27] SPEAKER_00: It's so often our clients say, it was so great because the guide, you know, they know know some guards and they know that they're only six people.
[24:35] SPEAKER_00: So, you know, they can switch by here or there, and it's just a much smoother, nicer experience.
[24:43] SPEAKER_00: But then of course, we can also take them back behind the scenes.
[24:47] SPEAKER_00: Uh, for example, we have a beautiful few tour in uh Barcelona where we can go, you know, again, behind to see other things that any larger groups will not be able to do because you cannot have people walk behind uh a counter or something like that if you're 20.
[25:04] SPEAKER_02: And I know you guys are now at 350 experiences across Europe.
[25:08] SPEAKER_02: And so I'm actually keen to know when it comes to expanding, because it it seems to me, and I think Angelo, you touched on this, is that you know, when I mentioned the number of categories you have, it's easier to expand into new categories when you have the flexibility of working with a small group.
[25:22] SPEAKER_02: Not only do certain venues make themselves available that wouldn't otherwise, but you know, it leads itself to being able to do cooking classes and things that are more unique.
[25:30] SPEAKER_02: Tell us if you wouldn't mind, as you've expanded the types of experiences that people can have in a city, what some of the new categories or you know, how you guys have been expanding the product offering based on the small group group concept.
[25:44] SPEAKER_01: Um well, I guess um I guess we kind of maintain the same verticals or the same DF verticals every time we approach a destination.
[25:53] SPEAKER_01: So then it takes time for us and the product team, the incredible job that the product team does to fulfill every category in every destination.
[26:03] SPEAKER_01: Um and that does not come with ease, to be completely honest with you.
[26:08] SPEAKER_01: Um and it takes it takes patience, it takes more than a couple of years.
[26:14] SPEAKER_01: In fact, sometimes markets we enter only with private tours to be able to spread across all of our all of our categories.
[26:23] SPEAKER_01: Um the categories that are newest or uh I guess the fastest growing are families.
[26:33] SPEAKER_01: Uh, family tours, and and this is part of being purpose-driven and uh and wanting to our travelers to be intentional with their travel.
[26:43] SPEAKER_01: Um, we want to serve, we wanna, we wanna make content and memorable the experiences for the future travelers that are going to be experiencing, are experiencing our world.
[26:54] SPEAKER_01: Um, and we need to educate them, we need to make them uh understand the power of this industry.
[26:59] SPEAKER_01: Um, the incredible work that Christina's done in creating, we created a character called Live and Live Travels with a dog, our old dog, Doris.
[27:10] SPEAKER_01: And these books are the gift at the end of these scavenger hunt tours.
[27:15] SPEAKER_01: Um and these have been incredibly successful lately.
[27:20] SPEAKER_01: Kids collect pins, and just like at Disneyland, every time you go or every time you take this tour, you you get a live pin, and it's live in that particular destination.
[27:30] SPEAKER_01: So with the Eiffel Tower or next to the Dome of St.
[27:32] SPEAKER_01: Peter's or next to Sagrada Famidas Towers and so forth, or with a gelato in its hand.
[27:38] SPEAKER_01: Um and another uh category that has been ever so growing is is luxury.
[27:47] SPEAKER_01: Um, luxury.
[27:50] SPEAKER_01: Now we're getting a little bit more into the industry talk.
[27:53] SPEAKER_01: So maybe if the listener is more of a consumer, they may not necessarily be interested in this, but certainly in a very volatile and uh unstable world economy, um, leaning over onto the luxury vertical has been extremely resilient for us and has been uh very helpful for LiveTource growth.
[28:18] SPEAKER_02: Well, and you mentioned about as you move into new cities, you have a kind of uh set list of uh experiences that you're trying to offer in that new destination.
[28:26] SPEAKER_02: Tell us a little bit about where you guys are in terms of scaling the number of destinations you offer.
[28:31] SPEAKER_02: What is new for 2026?
[28:33] SPEAKER_02: What else are you guys looking at in 2027?
[28:35] SPEAKER_02: And tell us a little bit about how you expand the portfolio and make the obviously difficult decision whether or not this should live within the LiveTours portfolio.
[28:46] SPEAKER_00: Yes.
[28:46] SPEAKER_00: So I will save our new destination as a little cliffhanger here.
[28:52] SPEAKER_00: Um but when we choose a new destination, we do ask many times to our agents.
[28:59] SPEAKER_00: Uh, we get a lot of requests from existing clients.
[29:03] SPEAKER_00: Almost daily we get emails like, why aren't you in Toronto or why aren't you in Tokyo?
[29:08] SPEAKER_00: Uh and you know, we compile this list and uh then we have our different regional development managers uh in our destinations that then expand to newer uh cities.
[29:20] SPEAKER_00: So our new destination for this year will actually be Madrid.
[29:26] SPEAKER_02: Oh, fantastic.
[29:27] SPEAKER_02: I love Madrid.
[29:28] SPEAKER_02: Yes, that's Madrid has so much to offer, including one of the oldest restaurants, like continuously functioning restaurants in Europe.
[29:35] SPEAKER_02: And yeah, that's um Madrid's an amazing city.
[29:37] SPEAKER_02: So I'm and Spain is obviously having a huge moment um as far as their tourism growth as well, uh France and Spain.
[29:44] SPEAKER_02: So that's fantastic.
[29:45] SPEAKER_02: Um so how did you guys decide on Madrid?
[29:48] SPEAKER_02: Obviously, uh based on the factors you were just saying sharing with us, um visitor interest, feedback from guests.
[29:54] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm gonna I'll give you a little anecdote if you don't mind.
[29:57] SPEAKER_01: Sure.
[29:58] SPEAKER_01: Um when we when I first told Christine that I wanted Live Italy to go outside of Italy, Christine said something very, very wise.
[30:07] SPEAKER_01: And she says, let's do Italy really, really well before we expand.
[30:12] SPEAKER_01: And that doesn't just mean um, you know, know what we're doing and being capable of operating uh at as a logistics expert without any any any extraordinary problem.
[30:25] SPEAKER_01: But she meant like, let's make sure we develop all of the verticals in the places where we operate in and and we and we are and we are obeying by our own values and purpose.
[30:37] SPEAKER_01: Um and the factor and that factored in what we now call paced growth.
[30:43] SPEAKER_01: So let's take it easy.
[30:44] SPEAKER_01: Uh let's not just try to conquer the world.
[30:47] SPEAKER_01: Let's open, and this has been hard to learn also, um, and teach ourselves, but also teach our team, especially post-COVID, where everybody saw opportunities and like, okay, let's open here.
[30:58] SPEAKER_01: And and it was hard to tell people let's do what we do better, uh, and let's get really super comfortable in our shoes um in Paris and Barcelona and Seville and London before we think uh of opening other destinations.
[31:14] SPEAKER_01: So Madrid sort of is now we have Barcelona, we have Seville.
[31:18] SPEAKER_01: Um, we feel very confident of these two destinations.
[31:21] SPEAKER_01: Madrid was a natural, uh, natural expansion.
[31:25] SPEAKER_02: Well, and interesting, and you mentioned that.
[31:26] SPEAKER_02: If you wanted to really nail the exceptional guest experience in Italy first before expanding, one of the things I was um interested to ask you along those lines, when you started talking about the guest experiences and uh being a part of a small group of six, having the flexibility to be able to manage the smaller group, one of the things uh I would anticipate that you do is giving your guide some ability to personalize the experience, which I would think in the age of AI and especially with larger groups, is there's certain things that you can do that you can deliver on uh that are special.
[31:58] SPEAKER_02: And I I would love, if you wouldn't mind sharing, you know, people when people come home from a trip, they talk about the guide.
[32:04] SPEAKER_02: If they've been on a tour, like the first thing is like, we had the best guide.
[32:08] SPEAKER_02: I just had a uh my aunt just came back from Scotland and they were had raving about their time in Edinburgh, and they were like, we had the best guide.
[32:15] SPEAKER_02: And and they were great storyteller, and then they also had a great experience.
[32:19] SPEAKER_02: So obviously you're mindful of these things of like making sure they have a great guide and making sure they have a great experience.
[32:24] SPEAKER_02: Tell us a little bit about how that comes together in terms of how much freedom you give the guides to be able to personalize, because if they're end up mentally exhausted, I like that idea way better than being physically exhausted.
[32:34] SPEAKER_02: It means that the guests have interacted, engaged, they've asked questions.
[32:37] SPEAKER_02: We don't have that awkward moment where 30 people stand there and no one asks anything and are really engaged.
[32:42] SPEAKER_02: So tell tell us about the personalization if you would you share a guest story with us that kind of really captures what Live Tours is really all about.
[32:50] SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, I'll go with what we try and tell our tour guides to do and then the guest story, maybe Christine can tell you.
[32:57] SPEAKER_01: But I I tend to workshop our tour guides every year.
[33:01] SPEAKER_01: Um and the last uh so every year we take uh this, we call it the grand tour, where the two owners go and meet all of our tour guides.
[33:09] SPEAKER_01: We're talking about 1,200 people across the 26 destinations, and we offer them a tour guiding workshop, uh, which generally I lead, um, with obviously ending Q ⁇ A and so forth.
[33:23] SPEAKER_01: And the theme, um, especially this past year has been based on reasonable hospitality and the basic um the basic uh I guess factor that tour guides especially have to in a way relearn on how to do is to listen.
[33:44] SPEAKER_01: Um uh listen, adapt, and re-deliver.
[33:49] SPEAKER_01: And to give to give them the perfect platform, which is a group of six people, where listening can actually happen because um there is no group size friction where even just body language you can actually visualize and spot.
[34:03] SPEAKER_01: Um, and then you can you have the space, you have the creative space in that particular moment to absorb whatever um message is coming to you from the client, whether verbally or physically, um adapt and re-deliver.
[34:19] SPEAKER_01: Um, and that's that's part of the no-scripted tour freedom of um outstanding uh hospitality that we wish to give.
[34:30] SPEAKER_01: And this obviously, this is not just for tour guides, it's our for our chefs, it's for our drivers, it's for our sailors and captains on our boats.
[34:38] SPEAKER_01: Um, it goes across all of the experiences.
[34:40] SPEAKER_01: They all are part of these workshops.
[34:43] SPEAKER_01: Um guest experience.
[34:45] SPEAKER_02: Well Christine, let's hear it.
[34:47] SPEAKER_02: What's the one most memorable one that stands out to you?
[34:49] SPEAKER_00: So I it's definitely when uh like Angela's mentioning, we are very into unreasonable hospitality hospitality, and it's something that it's really hard to teach people because it has to really come from within.
[35:03] SPEAKER_00: But one of the examples that I could share with you is uh one of our tour guides in Rome, for example, and they did a Vatican tour and the child really wanted this puzzle going through the tour.
[35:17] SPEAKER_00: But the parents were like, no, no, no, let's get that later, let's get that later, let's go through with a tour.
[35:22] SPEAKER_00: And they get to the end of the tour, I get in a taxi, and they're like, Oh no, we didn't buy that puzzle that you really wanted.
[35:29] SPEAKER_00: And the guy didn't say anything.
[35:31] SPEAKER_00: She just went, bought the puzzle, made sure it was delivered to that hotel.
[35:36] SPEAKER_00: So when they got back after the day on the town, the child found this puzzle that they really, really wanted.
[35:42] SPEAKER_01: And that's because she could listen.
[35:45] SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
[35:45] SPEAKER_00: And, you know, that's really when you care for the client and want to make sure that each one of the guests, big or small, gets the best experience.
[35:54] SPEAKER_02: Well, and it says something that the guide felt empowered enough to be able to do that, which delivers like a wow factor for your guests.
[36:00] SPEAKER_02: So um I appreciate you sharing that because obviously this is what I've come to understand in speaking to uh travelers who've taken a live tour and people that work with you.
[36:08] SPEAKER_02: Um but the other thing I wanted to discuss why we're together is sustainability and responsible tourism, especially in a time when we're also concerned about over-tourism, whether we like that term or not, but what that actually means.
[36:20] SPEAKER_02: And and I know it's right fundamentally from the beginning, the idea of doing truly small group experiences is much more sustainable as a practice.
[36:30] SPEAKER_02: Um, and so but and I know Angela was from core to you from the beginning.
[36:34] SPEAKER_02: So from your vantage point, it's not uh as I understand it, sustainability isn't something you've we're kind of recently adopted.
[36:41] SPEAKER_02: It's been part of the LiveTourist philosophy since the beginning.
[36:43] SPEAKER_02: Why was that important to you?
[36:45] SPEAKER_02: And then maybe, Christine, you can also share some of the examples of how you guys are approaching sustainable, responsible tourism.
[36:52] SPEAKER_02: But what was the genesis of that from your vantage point, Angelo, as a dad, a business owner, and someone that obviously is focused on running this business for the long term?
[37:01] SPEAKER_01: It's being intentional.
[37:04] SPEAKER_01: It's making sure that we and our clients are at the same time, around the same table, being intentional with what we're trying to experience.
[37:13] SPEAKER_01: Um, and intentional means enjoy it the most you can on that moment, on that moment, do whatever you need to do to enjoy it, but do it while respecting it so that future generations can take advantage of the same cultural heritage, of the same environment, of the same tradition, of the same culture.
[37:35] SPEAKER_01: Um and to be um and I hate I hate to say this, but you know, to to be able to transmit this important aspect can really only come with small groups or private tours, because then there is the space for um the stakeholders to share the importance of their choice, of the client's choice.
[38:00] SPEAKER_01: Um and I, when we first came out with this, we're like, good, we've nailed sustainability.
[38:05] SPEAKER_01: Um only to discover that we had just uh uh chipped into it a little bit.
[38:12] SPEAKER_01: Um it was later on in the last two or three years, um maybe four years, that Christine and a small team at Lyft Tours called uh Sustainability Committee have really worked on expanding this concept beyond the group size, on giving back to the communities, on being responsible towards our environment and our cultural heritage.
[38:34] SPEAKER_01: But I'll leave it up to her.
[38:35] SPEAKER_02: Well, Christine, just on that, I mean, as you make decisions about hiring local guides and supporting local businesses, this is where I say there's a natural benefit to the six-person group size that is reduces the impact it has on destinations and and gives you puts you in a better position to support a lot of those local businesses.
[38:54] SPEAKER_02: Um, clearly that's an incredibly important to keep tourism dollars in a local community to make them sustainable.
[38:59] SPEAKER_02: And you know, when we throw words around like sustainability, responsible, I think the first thing that people go to is green and eco.
[39:05] SPEAKER_02: And it's actually, no, it starts with people and their livelihood and their culture and being respectful and mindful of that, which is like so I'd love to hear, uh Christine, from your vantage point, like how you guys have intentionally, uh to use your word, Angelo, like built that into the business and the experience so that fundamentally this is a sustainable business.
[39:25] SPEAKER_00: No, absolutely.
[39:26] SPEAKER_00: And I think every travel traveler who goes to a new destination, they want to give money to that destination, but then they might not know if you book with this operator, they don't realize that it's actually five middle hands before it lands into that local business or that tour guide in that destination.
[39:46] SPEAKER_00: So yes, that's also something that we could add when we add a new destination.
[39:52] SPEAKER_00: That's super important for us that we can work directly with the suppliers, directly with the tour guides as well in this destination.
[39:59] SPEAKER_00: Because there are different, there are destinations where you that that's not possible and we don't go there because of that reason.
[40:06] SPEAKER_02: Well, and as it relates to over-tourism, because obviously you're making decisions on where you're taking people or navigating to.
[40:11] SPEAKER_02: Clearly, there's certain places, like whether it's the Eiffel Tower or that they need to see, like it's an essential part of the sightseeing experience.
[40:19] SPEAKER_02: Um, but obviously even then you have to deal with crowds and and uh climate and various other factors.
[40:25] SPEAKER_02: But when it comes to concerns about over-tourism, how do you guys approach that with trying to make sure you hit the highlights, but then also you take people off the beaten path so their experience is not one of being in lineups and being overwhelmed with crowds?
[40:38] SPEAKER_01: It's it's it's not only worrying about extraordinary profitability.
[40:42] SPEAKER_01: You you in order to do the not over-tourist site, the off-the-beat path, uh, the secondary sites, the secondary village, the secondary city, you need to be fueled somewhere.
[40:54] SPEAKER_01: So we're unfortunately or fortunately never, we know that we're doing major sites the right way, but we're never going to be able to give them up and only base and only base our business on um on secondary sites.
[41:06] SPEAKER_01: Uh, but the the important thing is that we commit to um to those secondary sites, to the secondary cities.
[41:13] SPEAKER_01: And we do it by being privately funded by the business that we generate in the um in the major sites.
[41:22] SPEAKER_02: And Angela, is there a way that you can, like with your guests, because obviously it's my they're making decisions on who they travel with based on sustainability more than ever.
[41:31] SPEAKER_02: They they want to understand a company's values.
[41:34] SPEAKER_02: They more and more we're seeing this across the board in travel ever since the other side of the pandemic, as travel came back.
[41:40] SPEAKER_02: There is much more consideration that uh guests are giving.
[41:44] SPEAKER_02: And travelers are smart, they figure these things out.
[41:46] SPEAKER_02: So they decide who they're gonna spend their dollars on.
[41:49] SPEAKER_02: When it comes to encouraging visitors to be more responsible, I'm assuming it's something you probably build into the experience itself.
[41:56] SPEAKER_02: How do you encourage travelers, the guests that come on a LiveTour experience to be more mindful about sustainability?
[42:03] SPEAKER_02: How do how do you weave that in?
[42:06] SPEAKER_00: It's both actually.
[42:07] SPEAKER_00: So we do build it into the product and make sure that we have the offerings that are sustainable, but also more comfortable for the client.
[42:14] SPEAKER_00: It's easier to go to Pompeii, for example, from Rome with a train and just having a local driver come from the go to the train station and bring them to Pompeii instead of sitting in a car for the whole day being in traffic.
[42:29] SPEAKER_00: So offering this product make them more um, you know, less expensive as well.
[42:35] SPEAKER_00: So that the client will choose the more sustainable option without maybe even realizing that it's more sustainable.
[42:43] SPEAKER_00: So we do that.
[42:44] SPEAKER_00: Uh every time we develop a new product, we have a section that is for sustainability.
[42:49] SPEAKER_00: And we look, could we do this in a more sustainable way?
[42:52] SPEAKER_00: But then we also uh before a tour, uh the client gets their voucher, and in there there's a section that they click click on to get these tips on how to be more sustainable in the destination they're visiting.
[43:06] SPEAKER_00: Then we also work uh with educating tour guides because they are obviously the ones that meet the clients, knowing you know, where to shop souvenirs, for example, and things like that.
[43:18] SPEAKER_02: And tell us a little bit about the e-collective, because obviously one of the things I know that travel companies are trying to be more mindful of is actually measuring the impact and how they can improve the impact.
[43:29] SPEAKER_02: And so we all need some you know third party that will help all of us improve.
[43:34] SPEAKER_02: And that's why those types of organizations exist.
[43:37] SPEAKER_02: Um tell us a little bit about the e-collective.
[43:39] SPEAKER_02: I'm not familiar with them, but why why you've joined the e collective and where you guys are on your journey to uh to doing some of that measurement and looking at your impact and ways you can continue to improve.
[43:50] SPEAKER_00: Yes, we chose to work with eCollective because they are experts in tourism and tour operators.
[43:57] SPEAKER_00: And we felt that it was really important.
[44:00] SPEAKER_00: To it get to the nitty-gritty and attract the carbon footprint on each one of our products.
[44:07] SPEAKER_00: So instead of just getting a generic certification, we want to go to the bottom and understanding what is the carbon footprint on each one of them.
[44:16] SPEAKER_00: So we did this whole journey going through each one of these 350 products and realizing how many times we delivered them and with how many people and how if we ever had to use a headset or a driver or anything like that.
[44:29] SPEAKER_00: And we came out that it's uh 5.3 kilogram CO2 per product.
[44:36] SPEAKER_00: And this year we are working on getting that down to five kilograms.
[44:40] SPEAKER_00: So I don't know if this that gives any context, but from last year that's 5.3 is like uh 10 cafe lattes uh for clients.
[44:48] SPEAKER_00: That's how much carbon footprint we have on our products.
[44:52] SPEAKER_00: So it's very little.
[44:54] SPEAKER_02: That's a language we can all understand.
[44:56] SPEAKER_02: You just need to convert to coffee and uh to coffee, exactly.
[45:00] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, exactly.
[45:01] SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
[45:02] SPEAKER_02: The um the one other thing I'm also interested to ask you both is uh about technology, because it's obviously core to booking a trip today.
[45:10] SPEAKER_02: Obviously, you have your website, you work with partners direct or um uh through distribution partners as well.
[45:17] SPEAKER_02: But so technology is incredibly important, but I'm I'm interested to know from a guest experience point of view how you see technology playing a role.
[45:27] SPEAKER_02: And obviously, the reason I'm uh being mindful in the way I'm asking that question is because you know there is this struggle now with AI and AI guides and what you know what you can do um yourself versus what we all really strongly desire is that human connection and you know coming back, having a transformative travel experience, coming back, feeling changed and impacted in some way.
[45:46] SPEAKER_02: And that's that's by connecting with locals and having these amazing experiences.
[45:49] SPEAKER_02: So, how do you guys layer in technology to the guest experience, if at all?
[45:54] SPEAKER_02: Like where do where do you see technology playing a role as you go forward?
[45:59] SPEAKER_01: The front-facing experience will always remain human.
[46:03] SPEAKER_01: Um, whether it's directly from an inquiry on the website or of course the experience of our tour guides uh will always remain human, even though some people are trying to replace that as well.
[46:16] SPEAKER_01: Um the use of um technology, and if we want to go into the actual uh conversation of automations and AI, um is coming in purely to um uh help and aid uh the operational aspects of our business and reduce the amount of human mistake that could be happening when you operate 350 experiences.
[46:43] SPEAKER_01: I have uh can you imagine 350 tours and products have thousands of processes and procedures to to be run.
[46:51] SPEAKER_01: You're running we're running currently in groups of six and private tours, we're currently running over 200, 250 of these a day.
[47:02] SPEAKER_01: And we have two spectacular teams we call fulfillment.
[47:06] SPEAKER_01: Um, and they need automations in order to reduce the amount of friction, the amount of uh mistake, and produce the level and quality of product serving that we want for our clients.
[47:19] SPEAKER_02: When obviously part of the premium touring experience, which is certainly a category that you guys compete successfully in, I know you mentioned luxury, and that's why I wanted to ask about technology, because there is certainly a benefit to uh utilizing technology in hotels for check-in and like the but in terms of the guest experience, what it sounds like you're saying to me, Angelo, is that from um experiencing the day of the tour, there's not uh it's not technology enabled the experience itself.
[47:47] SPEAKER_02: When it comes to the tour experience, it's the pure focus of you with a guide and no need for your phone.
[47:52] SPEAKER_02: Is that one way to describe it?
[47:54] SPEAKER_01: Well, ish.
[47:56] SPEAKER_01: Except for actually photos.
[47:58] SPEAKER_01: We've been no, no, no, no, no.
[48:00] SPEAKER_01: I'll probably say that we have been the very first co-operator to a walking tour tour operator of the industry that we represent.
[48:08] SPEAKER_01: Uh, we were the very first co-operator to launch an app.
[48:10] SPEAKER_01: It was 2016, I remember because our firstborn was born, and we were launching an app because we had created virtual reality reconstructions of ancient Rome that people could download the app, bring onto the ancient Rome tour, um, and stuck into a cardboard goggle that we had produced that, which was sustainable because it was cardboard.
[48:29] SPEAKER_01: They could bring back home as a gift.
[48:31] SPEAKER_01: And during the tour, when prompted by the tour guide, they could insert, put, put the app on, insert the VR, insert the phone into the VR goggle and see the reconstructed uh ancient site.
[48:42] SPEAKER_01: So, no, I'm not we're not against technology during the experience, or perhaps we were the very first tour operator to have clients check in.
[48:50] SPEAKER_01: We wanted to make sure that they felt safe about what they booked.
[48:53] SPEAKER_01: They rechecked their information and they could check in and come to the meeting point and have a seamless experience meeting their tour guide.
[49:00] SPEAKER_01: So, no, we're not.
[49:01] SPEAKER_01: There is there is uh technological friction, if you want to, between Lyft Tours and the client, but it's done to augment and elevate the experience.
[49:10] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I appreciate clarifying that because certainly the one of the beauties, uh beautiful things about traveling is finally putting your phone down and being present and being in the moment.
[49:19] SPEAKER_02: And that's one of the things, obviously, you know, being on a tour and being engaged with another guide and feeling like you're you're really there.
[49:25] SPEAKER_02: And then as soon as you start looking at your phone and you're transported to work and like and other stresses and things that are happening in your life.
[49:32] SPEAKER_02: It's really interesting hearing you talking about where technology has played a role, the fact you guys were the first with an app.
[49:37] SPEAKER_02: And for me, I'm always mindful of what the guest experience is like and when you know a smartphone becomes uh an enhancement versus a detriment.
[49:46] SPEAKER_02: And one of the things obviously we're always talking about is AI.
[49:48] SPEAKER_02: It's the name of our uh summit that we do every year, and this year it's called Beyond AI for the very reason that people want human connection and the experience.
[49:56] SPEAKER_02: And I'm keen to ask you when you guys think about AI and how you apply that to your business, since everyone is being tasked with where do you uh utilize AI?
[50:06] SPEAKER_02: Um, is there aspects of your business where you are starting to incorporate that technology?
[50:10] SPEAKER_02: Um, and what is your view on how it might change the guest experience and how you could leverage that, if at all, from how the experiences you provide clients or guests?
[50:20] SPEAKER_01: Well, right now, AI is being used.
[50:23] SPEAKER_01: Um uh we're really, really at the very beginning.
[50:27] SPEAKER_01: We're really at the experimental uh um stage.
[50:31] SPEAKER_01: But what we've created is a few automations to um facilitate um the processes and procedures like checking on tickets or counting the tour guides reviews and stuff like that.
[50:41] SPEAKER_01: And then we created the knowledge base where anybody who is part of Lyft Tours can ask questions about the company.
[50:48] SPEAKER_01: And it could be anything.
[50:49] SPEAKER_01: Uh, it could be a process or a procedure, it could be a work-from-home policy, it could be a vacation request, and they have access to all that information without necessarily having to ask a million people for the answer.
[51:00] SPEAKER_01: So we are trying to reduce the noise and make our people more efficient.
[51:04] SPEAKER_01: Um front-facing, we're not thinking of dwelling too much about it, not in the near future for sure.
[51:12] SPEAKER_01: We're just purely trying to make sure that the extraordinary people that surround us feel elevated by the tool and they can provide better hospitality.
[51:22] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I appreciate sharing your perspective on that because this is where, you know, I want to at least ask you about AI, but really I see what's so special about your business is truly beyond AI.
[51:32] SPEAKER_02: It's the like, you know, sure, you can utilize that techno technology in the um in the background, but when it comes to the guest experience and where you guys are headed, like continuing to create more immersive experiences.
[51:44] SPEAKER_02: I know we've talked a lot about that as an industry post-pandemic, um, but I still think that there's so much more opportunity to create really compelling, and I think more people are looking at this more than ever, as you look at Netflix and Airbnb and some of those bigger brands that are trying to get into the experience economy.
[52:00] SPEAKER_02: They're trying to find a way in because they want people to go and visit the places they've seen in their in their shows, or, you know, that they want to turn a hosted accommodation into Shrek, as in the case with Airbnb, right?
[52:12] SPEAKER_02: Like so they're trying to figure figure out a way to break that physical real world barrier.
[52:17] SPEAKER_02: And you guys are already there.
[52:18] SPEAKER_02: And I feel like there's so much more that when it comes to culinary, that's probably one of the best examples.
[52:23] SPEAKER_02: And I'm obviously you're the experts in this, but I saw that big time at Arrival when we were together, you know, the culinary track and the fact that people are traveling now for food more than ever.
[52:31] SPEAKER_02: So, what I'd love to finish off our conversation with is looking forward uh to 2027 and beyond and where LiveTours is headed.
[52:38] SPEAKER_02: You kindly mentioned the next big destination is Madrid, but what are some of the other Angela ask you first and then uh Christina, I'm keen to get your take on this.
[52:45] SPEAKER_02: Is you know, the future of LiveTours, is it new experiences, is it new destination, likely a combination of both.
[52:51] SPEAKER_02: But Angelo, tell us what's what's ahead for LiveTours.
[52:55] SPEAKER_01: Um I'm going to uh unveil a little something that Christina and I have been working on, which is uh our desire to embrace hospitality and travel in all of its aspects and transpose what the core values of LiveTours have been also in multi-day activities in and travel and in the actual hospitalities like uh short-term rentals and vacations.
[53:23] SPEAKER_01: So maintaining a people first mentality, um, trying to enlarge our scope and embrace the entire industry uh and provide that family-owned business feel to not only just more destinations and more verticals, but in every travel, everything travel related.
[53:44] SPEAKER_02: Exciting.
[53:44] SPEAKER_02: Christine, tell me more.
[53:45] SPEAKER_02: What else can you share?
[53:48] SPEAKER_00: Well, yes, for sure that and uh working even more closer with sustainability.
[53:52] SPEAKER_00: Like we said, we have our targets there.
[53:54] SPEAKER_00: Sorry, I'm being so sweet to share.
[53:57] SPEAKER_00: Hitting our targets.
[54:00] SPEAKER_00: But no, all important.
[54:01] SPEAKER_00: Obviously, you know, keeping our unreasonable hospitality, making sure that as many dreams as possible are being uh enabled because that's what we're here for.
[54:12] SPEAKER_00: And that's what we really love doing.
[54:14] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and just on that note, um, I think we've both spoken about this.
[54:20] SPEAKER_01: We've agreed on it that it's um it's time to be uh, you know, we've we've grown the business to a level of satisfaction and we feel very successful and feel very fortunate.
[54:31] SPEAKER_01: Um and that, of course, comes with a lot of work and a lot of sacrifices, but we are ultimately very lucky to be in the place where we are and enjoy the fruits of our of our success.
[54:41] SPEAKER_01: But then comes giving back and then comes philanthropy, and then comes making sure that the communities we operate in, within, and with um feel like they're being supported um by what we do and how we uh look at travel.
[54:57] SPEAKER_01: So, yes, our our next mission is giving back as much as possible.
[55:02] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, which is really meaningful.
[55:04] SPEAKER_02: And again, like what for our listeners, one of the reasons I really wanted to bring the spotlight episode together was very much sitting across the table from both of you.
[55:11] SPEAKER_02: And when the question came up that we were in this executive retreat one-day uh workshop, and the focus was around selling your company to private equity.
[55:21] SPEAKER_02: And Angelo said, I have no, I'm gonna be the contrast contrast speaker.
[55:25] SPEAKER_02: I have no interest in that whatsoever.
[55:26] SPEAKER_02: For you and for uh Christine and your family.
[55:29] SPEAKER_02: Obviously, you have uh a young family, it's all about legacy and it's um preparing for that next generation and and being able to give back.
[55:37] SPEAKER_02: And that really stood out to me because those I I share those values, um, both in family and also the tourism is a force for good and um what it can offer people.
[55:47] SPEAKER_02: So, no, I'm um I'm thrilled we had a chance to bring this spotlight together.
[55:50] SPEAKER_02: I we've got two last questions for you before we wrap up because we've got a global audience that is both, you know, primarily B2B, but also customers as well.
[55:59] SPEAKER_02: And for your growth and where you're headed, tell us a little bit more about uh the markets you're looking to expand to.
[56:05] SPEAKER_02: And what I mean by that is source markets, not destination markets.
[56:09] SPEAKER_02: Clearly you're going to continue to expand in Europe and likely beyond.
[56:11] SPEAKER_02: I'd love for you guys to be offering tours in Toronto.
[56:13] SPEAKER_02: I would definitely take one or one day when I'm back in Tokyo again.
[56:17] SPEAKER_02: Um, but tell us a little bit more about the markets you're looking to expand to as partners are listening to this and thinking about reaching out, whether it be um bringing more people in from Australia or uh the US, um, and also distribution partners that may be interested in listening to this and saying, wait a second, why are we not partnered with Live Tours?
[56:34] SPEAKER_02: We should be absolutely be working together.
[56:36] SPEAKER_02: Tell us a little bit more where you're planning to grow in that regard.
[56:39] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I we're first gonna concentrate on doing the English-speaking um countries really, really well.
[56:46] SPEAKER_01: So, of course, core businesses, United States and Canada, but we do want to make sure that we're highlighted and in front we're put in front of the Australians and the New Zealanders and the South Africans, but also the Middle Easterns and Asian pockets that speak English.
[57:01] SPEAKER_01: So we have directed our team to look at those markets and look at those sources to generate more English-speaking uh opportunities.
[57:11] SPEAKER_01: But by the same token, there's a number of experiences that don't need language.
[57:15] SPEAKER_01: Um, and we have a number of tour guides that do speak Spanish.
[57:19] SPEAKER_01: So we're gonna look at the Spanish-speaking countries um as well, uh, especially for private tours and certain destinations, high volume, fixed people semi-private tours.
[57:28] SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, that's where that's where we're headed.
[57:32] SPEAKER_02: That's great.
[57:32] SPEAKER_02: And I know you guys have an affiliate program, so uh influencers and bloggers are listening to this, and obviously are keen to partner with you can do that.
[57:39] SPEAKER_02: I also just want to address the Asian portal that you have, since you know, you know, really when you look at the continued growth, you know, with businesses like For Travel and these host agencies, they want to be able to sell great products to their clients, and they're relying on the travel advisors to make those recommendations that'll be listening to a podcast like this and saying, wait a second, I'm gonna make sure that when I book my client on their next European trip, I'm gonna get them a live tours experience as part of that.
[58:04] SPEAKER_02: Um, tell us a little bit about that side of your business and plans to grow the agent side.
[58:09] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, travel uh travel agents are obviously doing an amazing job.
[58:14] SPEAKER_00: Uh and we we can tell also with clients because they have this whole journey where they have been selected our products because the travel agents know that our products is the best match for the clients.
[58:27] SPEAKER_00: But for our travel agents, we're also happy to announce that we are launching a new travel portal, which will be available coming out this fall uh with a lot of new cool features.
[58:40] SPEAKER_00: Then we also have a whole selection with uh with uh workshops with our amazing sales sales uh manager, Katie.
[58:50] SPEAKER_00: So we have a series of uh you know learning how selling a destination or a vertical end products.
[58:57] SPEAKER_02: Well, I've been so enjoying our conversation, but I just have two final questions before we close.
[59:02] SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna ask one for you, Christine, first, and then we'll close off with you, Angelo.
[59:05] SPEAKER_02: And Christine, given that the business is continuing to scale and grow, and obviously you have an important role to play in that, I would love for our listeners to know how best to connect with you, the team, and to learn more and partner with LiveTours.
[59:17] SPEAKER_00: So, travel agents, you're more than welcome to sign up on our website that you find on LivTours.com.
[59:24] SPEAKER_00: There, we also have a sign up for affiliators that we work really closely with.
[59:29] SPEAKER_00: Otherwise, we are always reachable on email at infotlivtours.com or follow us on our LinkedIn page or any of our socials.
[59:37] SPEAKER_02: That's great.
[59:38] SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
[59:38] SPEAKER_02: And Angelo, I'm gonna close with you because obviously this started with you.
[59:43] SPEAKER_02: I know it's a family business and you guys are equal partners, and you've got this young family that's gonna take over the business.
[59:47] SPEAKER_02: So one day we're gonna do a spotlight episode with your kids.
[59:50] SPEAKER_02: But long before that, you know, just looking ahead in the next five to ten years, what do you hope that people will say about LiveTours and the impact that you've had on the way that people experience Europe?
[1:00:02] SPEAKER_01: Um that we were transformational and that the service that we provided wasn't purely transactional.
[1:00:09] SPEAKER_01: So that we somehow have transformed either the way they view the world, the way they view travel, the way they've experienced um something about that culture.
[1:00:24] SPEAKER_01: Um you know, saying memorable is not sufficient.
[1:00:28] SPEAKER_01: Talking about it with Uncle Joe at your Thanksgiving dinner is not enough.
[1:00:33] SPEAKER_01: To be able to say, I've been transformed by that experience is the highest aspiration that we could both um achieve.
[1:00:42] SPEAKER_01: And especially if it continues to resonate five or ten years uh down the line, uh net of the growth of the business.
[1:00:49] SPEAKER_01: So if you can maintain that type of service mind, then uh then I'm satisfied.
[1:00:55] SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm content.
[1:00:56] SPEAKER_01: We're happy.
[1:00:57] SPEAKER_02: I love that, especially as we started this year on the topic of this being the year of transformational travel with Joe Pine's book coming out and really something that I believe strongly in, and clearly both you, Christine and Angelo do as well, which is that the transformative effect of travel, when someone has so much riding and invested in that week away and they come back feeling positively changed or impacted in some way.
[1:01:19] SPEAKER_02: And obviously, one of the best ways to do that, clearly from our conversation, is to take a LivTour in your trip to Europe and to be delighted by the small group experience that I'm sure a lot of people have become intrigued by.
[1:01:30] SPEAKER_02: So I can't wait for more people listening to this to reach out, to connect with you, to partner, especially with travel advisors.
[1:01:36] SPEAKER_02: So please definitely check out the new portal that's coming up uh shortly at livetours.com.
[1:01:41] SPEAKER_02: You can sign up and then uh send clients and handle the bookings on behalf of your clients.
[1:01:46] SPEAKER_02: So that definitely is obviously one great way to partner with the team here at LiveTours.
[1:01:51] SPEAKER_02: But I just want to finish by saying thank you to you both.
[1:01:53] SPEAKER_02: Obviously, it's been great to meet you.
[1:01:54] SPEAKER_02: Wonderful to have this time to sit down and uh record together and to learn more about your business that is clearly going from strength to strength.
[1:02:01] SPEAKER_02: And I wish you every success in the rest of 2026 and a bright future ahead in 2027 and beyond.
[1:02:07] SPEAKER_02: So thank you again for joining us, Angelo and Christina.
[1:02:10] SPEAKER_02: Look forward to keeping in touch.
[1:02:11] SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much, Dan.
[1:02:12] SPEAKER_00: It was really fun to be here.
[1:02:13] SPEAKER_02: Thank you for having us, Dan.
[1:02:14] SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
[1:02:15] SPEAKER_02: Thank you guys.
[1:02:15] SPEAKER_02: And thank you so much to all of our listeners too for joining us for this special spotlight episode on LiveTours and the amazing couple that Angelo and Christine are, who are usually based in Rome.
[1:02:25] SPEAKER_02: But as you heard at the beginning, they're in the Dolomites at the moment, but still working away as always, as are their team members all over Europe through the summer of 2026 and into the fall.
[1:02:35] SPEAKER_02: So definitely check out Livetours.com for more information or reach out to them on LinkedIn or send them an email.
[1:02:41] SPEAKER_02: But thank you again to the team for being a part of this and all of our listeners for joining us for this episode.
[1:02:46] SPEAKER_02: Don't forget, we do post clips and highlights on our social channels so you can find out more on Instagram, LinkedIn, and YouTube.
[1:02:55] SPEAKER_02: And we also will have our monthly newsletter coming out shortly.
[1:02:58] SPEAKER_02: So you'll see this episode and all the latest updates.
[1:03:00] SPEAKER_02: For more spotlight episodes, you can check out traveltrendspodcast.com slash spotlights.
[1:03:05] SPEAKER_02: And thanks again for joining us.
[1:03:06] SPEAKER_02: And until next time, safe travels.

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