# Why 2026 Is the Year of Transformative Travel with Jake Haupert and Joe Pine

An episode of [Travel Trends with Dan Christian](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1689330635), 5 Feb 2026, 1 h 12 min.

Audio: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2172036/episodes/18627511-why-2026-is-the-year-of-transformative-travel-with-jake-haupert-and-joe-pine.mp3

Send us Fan Mail The moment a guide stops narrating a place and starts guiding a person, everything changes. That idea anchors this season finale with Joe Pine, the visionary behind The Experience Economy and his latest book The Transformation Economy, alongside Jake Haupert, Co-founder of the Transformational Travel Council (TTC). Together, they lay out a clear and practical roadmap for turning great trips into identity shaping journeys that deliver true return on time invested. We explore encapsulation, the four part process of prepare, experience, reflect, and integrate, and show how it can elevate any itinerary. Preparation sets intention and sharpens self awareness. On trip experiences unfold at the exact moment travelers are most open to change, away from daily routines. Reflection locks in meaning and memory. Integration sustains momentum through coaching, community, and new habits. Jake connects this framework to the TTC PATH model, sharing real world examples from advisors, conservation groups, and destinations redesigning guest journeys, training guides in human centered skills, and embedding regenerative outcomes into their offerings. Why is this moment happening now? Demographic shifts, digital overload, and a growing hunger for purpose are moving demand beyond experiences toward transformation. We also examine AI’s emerging role as an engine for mass customization, helping diagnose motivations, adapt experiences in real time, and support post trip integration, while freeing people to do what only humans can do: build trust, ask better questions, and hold space for change. For tour operators, destinations, hotels, and advisors, this conversation serves as a blueprint. Elevate guides from logistics to mentorship. Design intention setting and daily reflection into your product. Offer integration as a service, not an afterthought. Above all, step fully into the reality that you are in the transformation business. To go deeper after listening, visit transformational.travel/getstarted. You’ll find a 10% discount code for Transformational Travel Council programs, a link to purchase Joe’s book, and free access to the State of the Industry Report. Most importantly, it’s a practical guide to TTC’s foundational frameworks and the perfect next step for anyone ready to start designing transformational journeys. Season 6 of the Travel Trends Podcast brought together some of the most influential voices shaping the future of travel. Across the season, we featured 20+ industry leaders spanning sustainability, loyalty, aviation, emerging tour operators, in-destination experiences, and AI - each offering candid insights, bold ideas, and practical perspectives on what’s next. Subscribe now and join us for season seven this March, as we continue to explore how industry leaders are shaping the future of travel for 2026 and beyond. 🔥 Special Thanks to our Season 6 Title Sponsors for their Support: Holafly, Propellic, PayCompass, Kaptio, Civitatis and WeRoad The #1 B2B Travel Podcast Globally. Over 100 Episodes. Listeners in 125 countries. New Episodes Every Weds. https://www.traveltrendspodcast.com/

## Chapters

- 0:00 Why Transformative Travel Matters Now
- 0:28 Season Six Finale Setup
- 2:01 Community, Growth, And Plans For 2026
- 3:47 Sponsors And Production Expansion
- 4:42 Event Roadmap And Listener Meetups
- 6:18 Video Shift And New Themes Ahead
- 7:29 Introducing Joe Pine And Jake Haupert
- 9:20 The Transformation Economy Book
- 11:29 Guiding People, Not Just Tours
- 12:59 Encapsulation: Prepare, Experience, Reflect, Integrate
- 15:12 TTC’s Framework And HERO Path
- 17:08 Case Studies In Transformative Design
- 19:44 Why 2026 Is A Tipping Point
- 22:05 Demand And Supply Sides Of Change
- 24:40 Wellness, Purpose, And Identity Trends
- 27:15 Regeneration And Identity-Level Change
- 29:18 Emerging Models And New Playbooks
- 31:25 Tech, AI, And Being More Human
- 34:09 Customization, Platforms, And Sensing
- 37:30 TTC’s Next Decade And Eco-Camps
- 40:06 Book Tour, Mission, And Flourishing
- 42:05 Mindset Shifts For The Industry
- 44:15 Closing Thanks And Season Seven Preview

## Transcript

[0:04] SPEAKER_02: Travel is such a natural place for us to go and explore, you know, you know, who are we now?
[0:09] SPEAKER_02: Who do we want to become?
[0:10] SPEAKER_02: What's important to us, right?
[0:12] SPEAKER_02: Sort of clean the slate, you know, play with different parts of who we are.
[0:15] SPEAKER_02: Uh, and so I think that that these societal implications are really starting to open people up and shift how how they're seeing themselves and how they fit into the world.
[0:28] SPEAKER_03: Hello everyone, and welcome to our travel trends season six finale episode.
[0:32] SPEAKER_03: This is your host, Dan Christian, and this is the episode that many of our listeners have been waiting for: the return of Joe Pine and Jake Haupert.
[0:41] SPEAKER_03: They joined us at the end of season five.
[0:43] SPEAKER_03: And Joe Pine, of course, is the legendary author of The Experience Economy, and Jake Haupert is the founder of the Transformational Travel Council.
[0:52] SPEAKER_03: They joined us for our second series on experiences, and it was such a popular series, and that episode was such a huge standout.
[1:01] SPEAKER_03: We agreed to have them back to close out season six, and the timing couldn't be better because Joe Pine has just published his book, The Transformation Economy.
[1:11] SPEAKER_03: And that's what we talk about in today's episode, as well as all the developments with the Transformational Travel Council in 2026.
[1:18] SPEAKER_03: But before I welcome them back to the show, I just wanted to provide a few updates and share a few acknowledgments.
[1:24] SPEAKER_03: The first thing I just wanted to say is a huge thank you to all of our listeners for your feedback and for your contributions over the course of season six.
[1:32] SPEAKER_03: We just ran our contest with Hayes Luggage to have our listeners share their highlights from season six and what they're looking forward to in season seven.
[1:41] SPEAKER_03: We have posted the three winners of those luggage sets on our blog.
[1:45] SPEAKER_03: Thanks and congratulations to each of you, but everyone that contributed over the course of this season, sharing updates, posting comments.
[1:53] SPEAKER_03: It was really wonderful to hear from you and also to get that positive feedback to know where we should take the podcast in season seven.
[2:00] SPEAKER_03: And we have huge plans for 2026.
[2:03] SPEAKER_03: One of them is a big shift towards video recordings, both live at events as well as remote in the new studio that I have set up for season seven.
[2:12] SPEAKER_03: I'll come back to more details on that in a moment.
[2:15] SPEAKER_03: But I also wanted to send a special thank you to all the guests that joined us over the course of season six.
[2:21] SPEAKER_03: Every episode is a must-listen from my point of view.
[2:24] SPEAKER_03: So if you didn't catch all the episodes, go back and have a look and see which ones that are most meaningful and relevant to you.
[2:31] SPEAKER_03: We have had so many episodes of our show become required listening for companies in the travel industry.
[2:37] SPEAKER_03: And I hear that at events.
[2:39] SPEAKER_03: And you heard it also when I was speaking to Travis from Tour Radar as a previous episode on social commerce became required listening for their entire team.
[2:48] SPEAKER_03: And I brought Travis on in season six to talk about that episode, what it meant to their business, to their team, and how they applied that strategy going forward and are having great success.
[2:58] SPEAKER_03: So for me, the ultimate validation is getting that feedback.
[3:02] SPEAKER_03: And really, it comes from our guests coming on the podcast and sharing really valuable advice that will help other people in their careers or grow their travel companies.
[3:11] SPEAKER_03: And that was been my mission since creating this podcast over three years ago.
[3:16] SPEAKER_03: I'm delighted that we have listeners in now in 125 countries and we continue to grow as we have new topics.
[3:22] SPEAKER_03: And we've gone now from doing one episode a week to three episodes every week in 2026.
[3:28] SPEAKER_03: And on that note, I want to thank our team because they have really stepped up to enable us to expand our production, which now includes our YouTube channel, TikTok, all the social channels.
[3:39] SPEAKER_03: We create clips and highlights, as you often hear me say.
[3:41] SPEAKER_03: But we also now are making a significant commitment to move into video, but also produce more content.
[3:49] SPEAKER_03: So every Tuesday we have a custom series, and every Thursday we have a spotlight episode, and every Wednesday will continue to be our main weekly episode of season seven and season eight.
[4:01] SPEAKER_03: And I also just wanted to acknowledge all of our sponsors who have made these conversations possible.
[4:07] SPEAKER_03: We couldn't have done this without you, Propelic, We Road, Civitatus, Captio, Holofly, and Pay Compass.
[4:14] SPEAKER_03: And I'm delighted that Propelic, Civitatus, Captio, Holofly, Intrepid are all now coming back for season seven.
[4:25] SPEAKER_03: And we have many significant partnerships planned for this year.
[4:29] SPEAKER_03: But I just wanted to acknowledge all of our sponsors, both our title sponsors and our theme sponsors that enable us to have those conversations in those three-part episodes to dive into a topic.
[4:40] SPEAKER_03: So thanks to each of you as well.
[4:42] SPEAKER_03: And I wanted to share a few quick updates with all of our listeners as we wrap up season six and prepare for season seven.
[4:50] SPEAKER_03: I have a rather ambitious event schedule that we have highlighted on our social channels and on LinkedIn.
[4:55] SPEAKER_03: You can find it on traveltrendspodcast.com/slash events.
[4:59] SPEAKER_03: I am going to be at ITB Berlin very shortly.
[5:02] SPEAKER_03: I will be speaking at the Get Your Guide headquarters on the Monday.
[5:05] SPEAKER_03: And then on the Wednesday, I'll be hosting a panel in the tours and activities section.
[5:10] SPEAKER_03: I'll be recording podcasts as well with our friends over at the Adventure Travel and Trade Association booth.
[5:15] SPEAKER_03: So look for me there.
[5:17] SPEAKER_03: I will then be doing a three-part keynote series at the Virtuoso conferences, which I'm really looking forward to.
[5:23] SPEAKER_03: And then I'll be at Arrival in Valencia at the end of April.
[5:27] SPEAKER_03: All of our listeners, there's a$100 euro discount you can find on our website.
[5:32] SPEAKER_03: I strongly encourage you to join us, especially those of you who are in multi-day.
[5:36] SPEAKER_03: I'm MCing that stream, and there will be a lot of amazing multi-day tour companies there.
[5:42] SPEAKER_03: They're also going to be in Australia and then Spokane later this year.
[5:46] SPEAKER_03: We're also the official podcast partner for the Aviation Festival of the Americas, which is in Miami in June, as well as the Adventure Travel and Trade Association, who have multiple events coming up and the flagship ATWS later this year.
[6:00] SPEAKER_03: But definitely check out our events page because wherever we're recording an event spotlight, you always have the opportunity to join us.
[6:07] SPEAKER_03: So make sure that you find out where we're going to be and reach out to me, Dan at Travel Trends Podcast, if you're going to be at any of these events.
[6:14] SPEAKER_03: Be great to meet our listeners in person and record together with you if possible.
[6:18] SPEAKER_03: Now, our plan for season seven, it starts March 4th and will be full video from the moment we launch.
[6:27] SPEAKER_03: We have five themes lined up, but three of them are completely new themes based on interest from our listeners and our partners.
[6:34] SPEAKER_03: We're going to be focusing on sun holidays, luxury hotels, and agentic AI, and bringing back two of our most popular themes, experiences and loyalty.
[6:45] SPEAKER_03: And we have a number of one-off episodes planned on sports tourism in 2026, wellness, luxury travel.
[6:52] SPEAKER_03: But let's get back to the moment we've been waiting for, the season six finale of travel trends with our friends Joe Pine and Jake Haupert.
[6:59] SPEAKER_03: I just want to encourage everyone to order Joe Pine's book, The Transformation Economy.
[7:04] SPEAKER_03: You can get more information at his Substack page, which is transformationsbook.substack.com.
[7:12] SPEAKER_03: He also runs Strategic Horizons and does a number of speaking engagements.
[7:16] SPEAKER_03: He's got a toolkit on his website that you can check out to help companies work through these ideas, principles, and the frameworks that are provided in the book.
[7:23] SPEAKER_03: So we will definitely be following his journey and sharing more on our social channels, but definitely order the book.
[7:29] SPEAKER_03: And our friend Jake has also offered all of our listeners a free guide to get started with transformative design from the Transformational Travel Council.
[7:38] SPEAKER_03: You can see what's happening in the state of the industry and ways to connect with transformative design projects like we talk about in this episode.
[7:46] SPEAKER_03: You can pair that together with Joe's book, which will give you a fantastic foundation.
[7:50] SPEAKER_03: So check out more information at transformational.travel slash get started.
[7:55] SPEAKER_03: Transformational.travel slash get started.
[7:58] SPEAKER_03: Now let's bring these guys both back into the conversation.
[8:01] SPEAKER_03: Joe and Jake, welcome back to Travel Trends.
[8:04] SPEAKER_03: It's a real pleasure to have you guys back on the show.
[8:06] SPEAKER_03: Thanks so much for joining us.
[8:07] SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you very much.
[8:08] SPEAKER_01: Uh uh, Dan.
[8:10] SPEAKER_01: Uh it's a pleasure to be here.
[8:11] SPEAKER_01: This is actually a record.
[8:12] SPEAKER_01: This is the third time I've done a podcast with you in like seven months.
[8:16] SPEAKER_01: So it's uh it's always been a pleasure.
[8:18] SPEAKER_01: Uh I am in my uh home office uh in uh beautiful Stillwater, Minnesota, uh, and uh about ready to uh head out this afternoon, uh, but uh wanted to uh get this podcast in first.
[8:30] SPEAKER_03: Yeah, thank you very much, Joe.
[8:32] SPEAKER_03: Really appreciate you making the time for this.
[8:33] SPEAKER_03: Obviously, it's been a huge honor for me to have you on the podcast three times, and just so all of our listeners know, they heard from that introduction.
[8:39] SPEAKER_03: You joined us with Jake to close out season five.
[8:43] SPEAKER_03: We're closing out season six here today.
[8:45] SPEAKER_03: You also kindly joined us for the arrival spotlight episode, which I strongly encourage anyone that hasn't listened to that to check out that episode because Joe's terrific in that as well.
[8:54] SPEAKER_03: Uh, but today we also have Jake joining us.
[8:57] SPEAKER_03: And Jake, of course, you and Joe work so closely together.
[9:01] SPEAKER_03: Joe is going on his book tour, and they everyone heard from my introduction how I reference this as the year of transformative travel.
[9:08] SPEAKER_03: I strongly believe that.
[9:10] SPEAKER_03: I know you both do as well.
[9:11] SPEAKER_03: And it couldn't be more perfect to have you joining us as well, given you run the Transformational Travel Council.
[9:17] SPEAKER_03: So I want you to jump in here, tell us, uh, tell all of our listeners where you are at the moment and some of your plans for 2026.
[9:24] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, it's great to be back.
[9:26] SPEAKER_02: And uh yeah, it's awesome to to be working with Joe.
[9:29] SPEAKER_02: He's he's been pretty busy lately, as you might imagine, with with the book launch.
[9:33] SPEAKER_02: Uh, but uh yeah, things are going really good.
[9:36] SPEAKER_02: You know, you mentioned this being the year of transformative travel, and and uh I couldn't be more thrilled about it.
[9:42] SPEAKER_02: And you know, I was just uh teaching our course this morning and and going back to some of the early days, and you know, it was Vogue magazine that called it the trend of 2017.
[9:51] SPEAKER_02: You know, so we've we've come a long way.
[9:53] SPEAKER_02: And what I appreciate about where we are now, and I talked to Joe about this yesterday, is it's it's now transcending as a buzzword.
[10:00] SPEAKER_02: Now it's about how do you do it, right?
[10:03] SPEAKER_02: And that's what uh the book is so good at outlining.
[10:05] SPEAKER_02: And so, you know, with the TTC, really we're really focused on providing more opportunities for engagement and connection and and and shared learning, uh, you know, both you know, virtually and uh in person.
[10:17] SPEAKER_03: Yeah, fantastic.
[10:18] SPEAKER_03: Well, obviously you have the travel industry background, experience, passion.
[10:23] SPEAKER_03: You and I are very similar in a number of ways, which is why I think we get along so well and look forward to seeing each other in person.
[10:29] SPEAKER_03: And I and I and I I and part of what I want to make sure we achieve in this discussion together for all of our global listeners is having someone like Joe Pine, who, as you may have heard, Joe, one of our recent guests on our podcast, Michael Zeisser, who is a legendary investor who is, you know, often referred to himself as the Warren Buffett of the Experience Economy.
[10:49] SPEAKER_03: And he gives full credit to you and refers to you as the intellectual godfather of the concept.
[10:55] SPEAKER_03: But he's done very well investing on your recommendation and advice.
[10:58] SPEAKER_03: So uh, but what I wanted to do as we have this conversation together is tie together the transformation economy, this landmark uh book that Joe has just published, with the work that you're doing at TTC, given this is the you know the background is the two of you guys working together.
[11:12] SPEAKER_03: So you are taking those concepts, Jake, and applying them to travel.
[11:16] SPEAKER_03: Um, but before we do that, let's go back to the transformation economy.
[11:20] SPEAKER_03: Everyone and I'm I'm gonna just move on from our first episode because everyone should know who Joe Pine is.
[11:26] SPEAKER_03: Everyone should have read the experience economy that was required reading to listen to this episode.
[11:30] SPEAKER_03: Tell us a little bit, Joe, about the transformation economy, the book itself, you know, why you published it this year, and give everyone a bit more context.
[11:37] SPEAKER_03: Uh, I know I mentioned the Substack that I followed and uh you know as you were writing this book, but I'd love for you to give all of our listeners a bit of an overview of the transformation economy book that you've published.
[11:47] SPEAKER_01: Well, you know, in fact, the the transformation economy has as a as a topic, not as a book, has been around from the very beginning.
[11:54] SPEAKER_01: When I discovered the experience economy, I also asked, well, what's next?
[11:59] SPEAKER_01: and said, Well, it's got to be transformations.
[12:01] SPEAKER_01: It's got to be life-changing experiences.
[12:03] SPEAKER_01: So in fact, the last uh two chapters of the experience economy talk about transformations.
[12:08] SPEAKER_01: But uh, you know, I've been asked for over 25 years now, when are you gonna write a full book on it?
[12:12] SPEAKER_01: And my response was, well, one, the world's not ready for it, and two, I don't know enough about it.
[12:17] SPEAKER_01: And that's what's changed, and that's why I started writing the book in the beginning of 2024.
[12:22] SPEAKER_01: Uh, and then the you know, the book process of writing and publishing, you know, just takes that long to get it out now.
[12:28] SPEAKER_01: I was really hoping for for last September uh as the as the book launched, but uh you know that's the way it goes.
[12:34] SPEAKER_01: Uh and and you know, one of the key things is you know, I I I have learned a lot more about it in the last five, six, seven years, but uh I learned so much even more about it in the writing.
[12:45] SPEAKER_01: And that happens with with all my books.
[12:47] SPEAKER_01: I don't I don't know everything about the subject.
[12:50] SPEAKER_01: I gotta figure it out as I'm going along.
[12:51] SPEAKER_01: You can see all the all the all the books behind me.
[12:54] SPEAKER_01: I do a heck of a lot of research, a lot of reading, articles, books, and and other things, and and interviewing companies and executives and figuring out what they're doing.
[13:03] SPEAKER_01: Um, then all that comes together in developing uh new frameworks and um uh new ideas and principles that that end up in in the final product.
[13:13] SPEAKER_03: Fantastic.
[13:13] SPEAKER_03: And clearly, you know, as I highlighted in the introduction, the book is out, people can order it.
[13:18] SPEAKER_03: I have not read the book yet, but I will be reading it very shortly.
[13:22] SPEAKER_03: And so I just wanted to share that context with some of the questions uh that I have for you um simply because it wasn't an option for me in advance of recording this, but I uh absolutely am looking forward to uh to reading it because you know I'm the biggest fan of you and the experience economy, and uh that inspired my career.
[13:37] SPEAKER_03: And I'm I'm excited for what I believe will be the whole idea of transformative travel entering the zeitgeist this year.
[13:44] SPEAKER_03: And many of our listeners know that I published an article to start off 2026 where I see transformative travel as being the biggest trend of 2026.
[13:52] SPEAKER_03: We're gonna talk about a lot of things on this podcast over the course of the year.
[13:56] SPEAKER_03: But transformative travel couldn't be more important as an overall commercial objective for so many companies to realize this is how you need to be marketing and messaging, but you also need to, and this is where it comes to Jake, do so in the right way.
[14:09] SPEAKER_03: Because just marketing and saying you're offering transformative experiences isn't gonna work for very long when you get figured out.
[14:15] SPEAKER_03: So I want to make sure that anyone listening to this, and I do expect that this will become required listening for many companies in the travel industry and potentially even beyond that, that want to understand the transformation economy and how it should be applied.
[14:27] SPEAKER_03: But tell us a little bit, Joe, as you've gotten to know this industry, you know, we've seen each other at a couple of conferences over the last year.
[14:33] SPEAKER_03: You will, you know, you have a lot of interest within the travel industry itself.
[14:37] SPEAKER_03: For people like me that are reading your book and looking to apply those insights to travel, what do you think are the most transferable elements?
[14:46] SPEAKER_03: What are the things that as you are writing it and you're thinking about the travel industry that are the most applicable?
[14:51] SPEAKER_01: So, so two things.
[14:53] SPEAKER_01: Um, one um I'll mention uh is I didn't know until we were together at that arrival conference uh last September.
[15:02] SPEAKER_01: One of the things that happens is I always continue to learn more.
[15:05] SPEAKER_01: And I actually have a file of things I wish were in the book, you know.
[15:09] SPEAKER_01: So maybe if I do a uh a second edition, I can I can keep track of that.
[15:13] SPEAKER_01: And so one of the things I came up for that arrival conference is that I uh the the economic function of transformations is guiding.
[15:23] SPEAKER_01: So you know you extract commodities out of the ground, you make or manufacture goods, you deliver services, you stage experiences, right?
[15:30] SPEAKER_01: Intentionally design all the elements, uh, and transformation is built on top of experiences, so you it's always an experience that transforms us, but you guide transformations because because people change themselves.
[15:42] SPEAKER_01: And you can't force them.
[15:44] SPEAKER_01: Well, you could force them to change, but there's very bad results that come from that.
[15:48] SPEAKER_01: Uh but you can't force people to change, they change themselves.
[15:52] SPEAKER_01: So you're a guide.
[15:52] SPEAKER_01: You're you know, that's your economic function.
[15:54] SPEAKER_01: Every transformation is is guided.
[15:57] SPEAKER_01: Um and what I realized at arrival when I started talking to people and and and how very many of them were often from small companies, but we're often tour guides, right?
[16:07] SPEAKER_01: They're they're they're guiding tours.
[16:08] SPEAKER_01: And so one of the things I said in my presentation now that I think is very important for all everyone in the transformation travel industry is recognize you don't guide tours, guide people in a tour.
[16:21] SPEAKER_01: And it's guiding people that you're doing.
[16:23] SPEAKER_01: And if you just have that mindset that that I'm not guiding you know what's out there that I'm talking about, I'm guiding you who are in front of me, right, within this greater context of what's going on and what we're traveling to.
[16:37] SPEAKER_01: And the uh the second thing uh is a and I and I tell people that that if you stage experiences, this is the framework.
[16:46] SPEAKER_01: Right?
[16:46] SPEAKER_01: This is the thing you need to do.
[16:48] SPEAKER_01: If you ignore everything else, right, you will you will guide transformations.
[16:52] SPEAKER_01: And it's what I call encapsulation.
[16:54] SPEAKER_01: And encapsulation is just like the the most appropriate word I could think of for what many companies, and and Jake should jump in after I'm done, uh, because the TTC exemplifies this, uh, but the you know many companies naturally do this, and there's a ton of academic research that says this is what you need to do.
[17:13] SPEAKER_01: Right?
[17:13] SPEAKER_01: So encapsulation is preparation beforehand, then you have the experience, then you reflect afterward, and then you uh integrate on an ongoing basis.
[17:22] SPEAKER_01: So if you prepare people for the experience, you prime them for the experience, get them excited about it, get them anticipating what might happen, get them thinking about what effect it might have on them, even if they're not going into it with any sort of aspiration, even if, hey, I'm just going on a great trip, but get them thinking about themselves and where they're at in their lives and what possibilities might be.
[17:42] SPEAKER_01: Then you have the experience where you recognize that that um uh that the travel uh is when we are most open to change.
[17:51] SPEAKER_01: When we get out of our daily quotidian lives and open ourselves up to new vistas is when change much more naturally happens than than any other place.
[18:00] SPEAKER_01: So then the reflection then goes, reflects back on that and says, you know, what was what were the highlights of of this trip?
[18:06] SPEAKER_01: And I'll say trip, but actually it's like every day.
[18:08] SPEAKER_01: You should be reflecting at the end of every day.
[18:10] SPEAKER_01: Every day is its own experience within the greater whole.
[18:13] SPEAKER_01: And you know, what were the highlights?
[18:14] SPEAKER_01: What uh effect did it have on me?
[18:17] SPEAKER_01: What might it spark in in what I might want to do in the future, what I might want to see in the future, what I might want to be in the future.
[18:26] SPEAKER_01: And reflection retroactively increases the value of the experience.
[18:31] SPEAKER_01: If you just do that, even if you're just a regular experience stager, don't have any aspirations for transformation, it retroactively increases, it cements the memories, it gets people want to talk about it more, to tell other people about it, increases the chances they want to go on it again.
[18:43] SPEAKER_01: And then finally, where where most companies don't do is that integration.
[18:48] SPEAKER_01: Stay in contact, do things, help help remind them of what they're trying to do, or it dissipates over time.
[18:54] SPEAKER_01: Right.
[18:54] SPEAKER_01: And that's the the TTC, uh Jake, you talk about uh um Eric Rupp's book, uh Path, right?
[19:02] SPEAKER_01: The path formula is encapsulation perfectly.
[19:05] SPEAKER_01: So you you might want to mention that.
[19:07] SPEAKER_01: Well, totally.
[19:08] SPEAKER_03: So so Jake, this is exactly where having the two of you together is such uh is perfect because it's such a symbiotic relationship you guys have.
[19:15] SPEAKER_03: And knowing Jake, you there's certain things that when Joe had mentioned it to me, our listeners would have heard where I was just like, this is what we've been doing at Traveler, this is what we've been trying to highlight about why travel is so special.
[19:25] SPEAKER_03: So I'm sure there's things that you are already working on that Joe kind of solidify, and then other things that he brings to the table, you're like, oh, we need to act on that.
[19:31] SPEAKER_03: But yes, tell everyone about the you know, we covered in our first episode the TTC framework.
[19:36] SPEAKER_03: Remind everyone a bit more about what that is, because I'm keen to take one of your courses, and I know many of our listeners will be as well.
[19:41] SPEAKER_03: So yeah, tell us a little bit about the TTC framework and how that's been influenced by Joe's work.
[19:46] SPEAKER_02: Uh yeah, yeah, you know, it's uh I'll try to be brief here, but um, you know, when we when we looked at this, uh, you know, travel uh in its holistic uh way of being, like what is the purpose?
[20:00] SPEAKER_02: Why do we travel?
[20:01] SPEAKER_02: You know, we we decided that we needed to really dig deep and better understand human connection, human potential.
[20:06] SPEAKER_02: Uh, and ultimately we developed a manifesto, which Joe shares at a lot of his his keynotes, but uh but also a theory of change in a foundational framework, which is essentially capturing, you know, for us to evolve and become better versions of ourselves or to continue to grow.
[20:21] SPEAKER_02: Uh, you have to deepen your connection and relationship with yourself, uh, with others and and and with systems.
[20:28] SPEAKER_02: So, you know, that could be community, that could be nature, uh, but isn't it's intentionally using travel as this practice or this process that allows us to really evolve who we are, our perspectives, uh, you know, our agency, uh, and and and and bring that experience into our life in a meaningful way, one that endures, uh, which is not easy, right?
[20:51] SPEAKER_02: And he mentioned the path framework, it kind of mirrors the hero's journey.
[20:55] SPEAKER_02: Uh, it is prepare, adventure, think, and honor.
[20:59] SPEAKER_02: Uh, and so kind of following that path, you know, understanding that travel starts, you know, when you first hear that whisper, right?
[21:05] SPEAKER_02: When you hear that called adventure, like I need to go.
[21:08] SPEAKER_02: Something is telling me that I need to go, right?
[21:10] SPEAKER_02: And then starting to think about travel differently at that pay at that stage, uh, and then moving in through, you know, self-awareness and presencing and reflection and meaning making and being you know grateful and then honoring the experience, you know, by making sure that you continue to pursue uh the change that you wanna, that the change or changes you want to make in your life could be small, which is integration.
[21:33] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, which is integration.
[21:34] SPEAKER_03: Well, give us Jake a good example of one of the uh travel companies that you engage with that it has actually incorporated this into their itineraries and that have acted on this and seen real benefits.
[21:45] SPEAKER_03: I know there are many, but yeah, give us a good example that our listeners can sink their teeth into.
[21:49] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
[21:50] SPEAKER_02: You know, we've we've been ru we're in our 11th cohort of our signature experience development program, and just in short, it's an accreditation, it's six weeks long.
[21:57] SPEAKER_02: Uh, and uh it is a beautiful Of introduction uh into uh the transformation economy and how to implement this in a practical way in your in your organization.
[22:06] SPEAKER_02: So we've got uh quite a few alumni, but you know, one that I that really stands out is is is Ash Swords.
[22:12] SPEAKER_02: Uh she's got an organization called Asse Luxury Travel.
[22:16] SPEAKER_02: Uh and she's you know, she's dedicated to really uncovering the traveler's motivation, you know, and and having some of those harder conversations that I think is uncomfortable, frankly, for most of our industry still, you know, to have those conversations that get people to open up about why they want to go.
[22:34] SPEAKER_02: Are they burned out?
[22:35] SPEAKER_02: You know, do they have specific goals and aspirations?
[22:38] SPEAKER_02: Are they pondering a you know a big life question?
[22:41] SPEAKER_02: Uh, right.
[22:41] SPEAKER_02: So that that stage is important, uh, you know, and just as important as integration.
[22:46] SPEAKER_02: So she's completely redeveloped her customer journey uh to support that process through prompts and questions and through and through coaching.
[22:55] SPEAKER_02: Uh so she's a good example.
[22:57] SPEAKER_02: We've seen this in the nonprofit space with Sea Turtles, a conservation group, right?
[23:01] SPEAKER_02: There, they've developed new new principles and practices that help people deepen their relationship with their mission and vision, you know, and in conservation of sea turtles.
[23:10] SPEAKER_02: Uh there is uh an organization called Vital Ventures that's using challenge, right?
[23:15] SPEAKER_02: So you know, ultra marathons and and and and and and hiking and climbing as opportunities to really get out of your comfort zone and test the limits, if you will.
[23:24] SPEAKER_02: Uh, they've adopted a lot of the experience design techniques, uh, and also creating space for conversation and reflection in that small group setting, which I think can be really powerful.
[23:34] SPEAKER_02: Uh, and then you know, we've seen some destinations really, you know, visit Issaqua, uh, they've adopted it, uh, visit Annapolis uh of all places.
[23:43] SPEAKER_02: Uh Heather Ernst, she went through our program and she's weaving in transformative uh design into you know with her attractions and tour operators and hoteliers across Annapolis.
[23:54] SPEAKER_02: So there's quite a few.
[23:55] SPEAKER_02: It's really exciting, it's emerging.
[23:57] SPEAKER_02: And more to come.
[23:57] SPEAKER_03: Well, and Joe, hearing that, because I'm sure it it to you is great, gratifying to hear the impact your work has had on people, like uh people's lives like myself.
[24:06] SPEAKER_03: And obviously being on book tour, you're gonna hear from a lot of people like me that are gonna come up to you and say things that are genuinely true that you know your work has had a big impact on them.
[24:13] SPEAKER_03: You see the impact of your work through TTC and what Jake is doing.
[24:18] SPEAKER_03: I'm just actually curious from what he mentioned, is is there one of those that stands out to you, or is there another one that you know that you've helped inspire where you see, you know, where it turns into action?
[24:27] SPEAKER_03: Like you have these ideas and someone else applied them and are seeing real commercial success as a result.
[24:32] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
[24:33] SPEAKER_01: Well, um one company I'll mention is uh uh uh here in in the Minnesota area where I'm where I'm from, uh is Simplany.
[24:42] SPEAKER_01: Right.
[24:43] SPEAKER_01: So Symfony but with a SIM plan.
[24:46] SPEAKER_01: And it's a financial services company.
[24:48] SPEAKER_01: Uh it creates what uh what I call a transformation platform, and it's a B2B to C, which is that it sells to wealth advisors who then use it directly, um uh you know, where they're showing them the screens and everything to create an experience for their uh clients there.
[25:06] SPEAKER_01: Uh and uh and what it does is it really gets them to change the the conversation from money, which is a means to an end, right, to what the actual ends are, which they frame as life and legacy.
[25:18] SPEAKER_01: Right.
[25:18] SPEAKER_01: So so how is what you're saving today, what you're investing today, what you're spending today, uh influencing the rest of your life and what you want to accomplish in that and the legacy that you might want to leave behind to your kids and grandkids and and to uh nonprofits and charities and and so forth.
[25:36] SPEAKER_01: And so it really uh first of all allows them to change that conversation, so it's focused on aspirations as opposed to to mere money.
[25:43] SPEAKER_01: Uh and then it shows them all the possibilities based on every decision that they make, that what is going to happen, you know, based on all the data that they have from from almost a century of financial data of what's going on in the stocks and the bond markets and so forth, uh, and show you, you know, in worst case scenario and best case scenario, what you're going to have uh uh for your your spending in your life and then have left over for your legacy.
[26:10] SPEAKER_00: We'll be right back.
[26:12] SPEAKER_00: Travel has changed, but many multi-day tour operators are still stuck with spreadsheets and disconnected systems.
[26:19] SPEAKER_00: Today's travelers expect more choice, flexibility, unforgettable experiences without the friction.
[26:26] SPEAKER_00: That's where Captio comes in.
[26:28] SPEAKER_00: Built on Salesforce, Captio is the modern platform designed specifically for multi-day tour operators.
[26:34] SPEAKER_00: From tailor-made trips to group tours, rail to river, we bring your itineraries, bookings, payments, and operations together in one seamless system.
[26:42] SPEAKER_00: With automation, real-time inventory, and supplier integrations, we make complex travel simple so you can do what you do best.
[26:49] SPEAKER_00: Serve travelers, not spreadsheets.
[26:51] SPEAKER_00: Check out Captio.com for more details.
[26:55] SPEAKER_00: PayCompass is the leading merchant processor built specifically for the travel industry.
[27:00] SPEAKER_00: PayCompass makes it easy for travel businesses to get approved with high processing limits, so operators and agencies can scale without barriers.
[27:07] SPEAKER_00: They deliver some of the highest authorization rates in the industry, backed by powerful chargeback mitigation services that protect revenue and reputation.
[27:15] SPEAKER_00: Plus, with tools like virtual cards, PayCompass helps travel brands manage payments smarter and more efficiently.
[27:21] SPEAKER_00: Simply put, PayCompass isn't just a processor.
[27:24] SPEAKER_00: They're helping travel businesses grow stronger and faster.
[27:28] SPEAKER_03: Dan Christian here from Travel Trends.
[27:30] SPEAKER_03: If you're a travel advisor looking for the next big thing in group travel, then you need to know about WiiRoad.
[27:36] SPEAKER_03: WiiRoad is a community-driven small group travel brand that is designed for today's connection-seeking traveler.
[27:42] SPEAKER_03: Their secret: about 90% of Wii Roaders start solo and end up with a whole new crew of friends.
[27:49] SPEAKER_03: These trips run in tight-knit groups and are led by one of over 4,000 trained travel coordinators, whose entire mission it is, is to spark connection from day one.
[27:59] SPEAKER_03: Wii Road is built for travelers in their 20s, 30s, and 40s who want same age, same language groups.
[28:05] SPEAKER_03: And with over 300,000 travelers already on board, the demand is real.
[28:10] SPEAKER_03: And for trade, this is where it gets exciting.
[28:13] SPEAKER_03: WeRoad's new trade program gives advisors competitive land commissions, flexible holds, toolkits, training, dedicated support, and co-marketing opportunities.
[28:22] SPEAKER_03: Plus, flights aren't included, meaning you control the air, ancillaries, and pre-post stays.
[28:27] SPEAKER_03: So it's time to partner with WeRoad.
[28:29] SPEAKER_03: Give your clients the group trip they'll actually brag about.
[28:32] SPEAKER_03: Head to WeRoad.com slash welcome dash travel-advisors to get started.
[28:38] SPEAKER_03: That's WeRoad.com slash welcome dash travel dash advisors.
[28:44] SPEAKER_03: And now back to the show.
[28:46] SPEAKER_03: Let's take a one kind of big step back for a moment for uh for everyone and just talk about this concept of transformation and why it is such an important trend in 2026 and beyond.
[28:58] SPEAKER_03: Because you know, with your landmark work, the experience economy, in our first conversation, Joe, I still recall asking you, or uh there was a specific question when I asked you about you know the experience economy being an idea that everyone was aware of.
[29:08] SPEAKER_03: And as you highlighted to me, it's like, not when we came up with it.
[29:11] SPEAKER_03: It's like you know, it's like, yeah, I got you're right.
[29:13] SPEAKER_03: Like it's actually, you know, um, so now but what I find interesting about the idea of transformation and what I published that article that I know resonated with you both, I found it really interesting when people were resharing uh my LinkedIn post to start the year about transformative travel.
[29:28] SPEAKER_03: I kind of put in from my uh personal experience traveling and my professional reality working in the industry, here are all the reasons that I believe that this is going to be the most important trend.
[29:38] SPEAKER_03: And I think that, Jake, it's one of the things that given our shared history in this industry, seeing the companies that are having success in the marketplace today that are growing uh the most significantly, and that travelers are putting their hands up and saying, this is the type of experience I want now.
[29:52] SPEAKER_03: What I always find interesting is what's driving that behavior.
[29:54] SPEAKER_03: And I kind of pointed to a couple of things in my uh article, which was around, you know, the aging baby boomers and their uh travel and younger travelers as well.
[30:03] SPEAKER_03: And and ultimately what I was coming to was that transformation transformative travel is entering the collective zeitgeist.
[30:09] SPEAKER_03: That's kind of the way I was framing it.
[30:11] SPEAKER_03: But I'd love to know, and Jake, maybe you can take that first.
[30:14] SPEAKER_03: Why do you think 2026 is this year of transformative travel?
[30:18] SPEAKER_03: What are the things that you have seen building up to this that all point to the fact that everyone's paying attention to this now?
[30:24] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I I don't think it's a coincidence that it that it is happening at a time that you know the our society, our world is in a state of flux.
[30:33] SPEAKER_02: It's it's quite disorienting right now uh in many ways, from digital addictions to the polarization that that we witness across our social social platforms and in our communities, you know, across politics.
[30:45] SPEAKER_02: Um, I I think that is ultimately uh inviting people to maybe shift their perspective on their life.
[30:54] SPEAKER_02: Uh and you know, I think that that moves them closer into a little bit more intentionality in terms of who they spend time with, how they spend their money, uh, you know, where do they what what are they gonna do?
[31:05] SPEAKER_02: How are they gonna move from you know, like this idea of like spending time into investing in their time, right?
[31:11] SPEAKER_02: As Joe likes to say, time well invested.
[31:14] SPEAKER_02: Uh and so that get it's into travel.
[31:16] SPEAKER_02: Travel is such a natural place for us to go and explore, you know, you know, who are we now?
[31:21] SPEAKER_02: Who do we want to become?
[31:22] SPEAKER_02: What's important to us, right?
[31:24] SPEAKER_02: Sort of clean the slate, you know, play with different parts of who we are.
[31:27] SPEAKER_02: Uh and so I think that the these societal implications are really starting to open people up and shift how how they're seeing themselves and and how they fit into the world.
[31:37] SPEAKER_02: Uh and I think that's a really important thing.
[31:39] SPEAKER_02: And I think it's something that uh Joe is has been tuned into and a lot of folks in our industry.
[31:44] SPEAKER_02: But you know, going back to what I said, it goes back to like, how do you do that?
[31:47] SPEAKER_02: What are the what are the structure steps, tech, you know, techniques, and tactics that that help people actually engage travel differently?
[31:55] SPEAKER_03: For sure.
[31:55] SPEAKER_03: And one of the articles I was reading to start the year, because I call I call out those two things, and I'm keen to get your take on this, Joe, because you look at demographic factors, you're looking at cons you know, shifting consumer behaviors.
[32:05] SPEAKER_03: And these are things that I'm paying attention to as well on a commercial and marketing level, but you yourself from an academic perspective and then writing a landmark book like this, I'm sure there's many things that you're looking at to give you.
[32:15] SPEAKER_03: And but as soon as I published that article to start the year, I started seeing more articles about Gen Z, not buying houses, investing in traveling, putting more emphasis.
[32:24] SPEAKER_03: And we've we've definitely seen that these next generations, and whether it be house prices out of reach, all these other factors that may be at play as well, and whether it's decided I'm not going to go the way of my parents and wait to retire, I'm gonna do all that traveling as much as possible now.
[32:37] SPEAKER_03: My wife and I were like that.
[32:38] SPEAKER_03: I read the article out while it's my wife.
[32:39] SPEAKER_03: She's like, I guess we're ahead of our time.
[32:41] SPEAKER_03: We're like, we're a generation ahead of this next generation that's now saying that that's their number one priority.
[32:46] SPEAKER_03: Like it was 53% prefer to spend on travel, and it was like less than 40% a house and then saving for retirement.
[32:52] SPEAKER_03: Like all these things are pointing in the same direction.
[32:54] SPEAKER_03: So, Joe, tell us from your vantage point, what are some of those factors that you see pointing in the direction of transformative economy?
[33:02] SPEAKER_01: Well, first I want to respond to one thing you said, which is the trend of 2026 and beyond.
[33:08] SPEAKER_01: Because one of my fears is that people say, okay, this is a trend for 2026 and 2027 comes around and say, okay, we don't have to worry about that anymore.
[33:14] SPEAKER_01: No, no, no, no, no, no.
[33:15] SPEAKER_01: Right?
[33:16] SPEAKER_01: This, like the experience economy, you know, I first published, we first published it in 1999.
[33:21] SPEAKER_01: People are still discovering it today.
[33:22] SPEAKER_01: It's still operative.
[33:23] SPEAKER_01: It is will continue to be operative even as we shift more and more into a transformation economy, and the same thing with transformations.
[33:30] SPEAKER_01: So all of the things that you you both identified, you know, are exactly right.
[33:35] SPEAKER_01: Um there what I I'm working on one article with a uh professor friend uh from Spain, uh Marco Roblito, that that should be published uh the next few months on a consumer evolution model, which is which is taking a view of a sort of a well-known framework in in, I guess I'd say sociological circles, that talks about how how people shift and how generations tend to shift from traditionalists to achievers to experientialists and then to transformationalists.
[34:08] SPEAKER_01: And it's just sort of this natural flow that's going on.
[34:10] SPEAKER_01: So what uh you're talking about, Dan, with your wife is like, okay, you're you're uh what you talk about, you're at that experientialist phase, right?
[34:17] SPEAKER_01: It's like we don't want to wait till retire, we want to travel now, we want to have all these experiences, and you see that especially with millennials and Generation Z in particular, because they're the first ones to grow up in the experience economy, in an economy where experiences really became the predominant economic offering.
[34:32] SPEAKER_01: So that's a that's a a key factor.
[34:34] SPEAKER_01: Um there are so many others, but I want to point uh out the the other side of the equation, which is and we're talking about the demand side, but there's a supply side as well.
[34:45] SPEAKER_01: And the supply side is companies recognize the opportunity to shift into first experiences and then transformations.
[34:52] SPEAKER_01: You know, I talk about every every one of my books has a has a boogeyman, right?
[34:56] SPEAKER_01: That you gotta like this is the bad thing and you gotta do this in order to avoid that bad thing happening to you.
[35:01] SPEAKER_01: And with both the experience economy and transformation economy, it's commoditization.
[35:06] SPEAKER_01: The commoditization is like the law of gravity.
[35:08] SPEAKER_01: If you do nothing else, then over time you'll be commoditized.
[35:10] SPEAKER_01: So we've seen increasingly how goods and services have been commoditized, and so there's this opportunity to then go up to experiences, right?
[35:17] SPEAKER_01: I either be commoditized, I develop better goods and services, or I shift up towards towards uh uh experiences.
[35:24] SPEAKER_01: Um and and and and then uh the the the the co-equal factor with then the the demand side again is that people want goods and services to be commoditized.
[35:36] SPEAKER_01: They want to buy them at the lowest possible price and the greatest possible convenience.
[35:41] SPEAKER_01: Why?
[35:42] SPEAKER_01: So they can spend their hard-earned money and their harder-earned time on the experiences that they value, and then increasingly the transformative experiences that they value even higher, right?
[35:52] SPEAKER_01: Where experiences, as as as Jake mentioned, uh uh alluded to, uh provide time well spent, transformations provide time well invested, right?
[36:01] SPEAKER_01: Because generally it's not one life-changing experience.
[36:03] SPEAKER_01: Generally, it's a series of experiences that get you from where you are today to what you want to uh become.
[36:10] SPEAKER_01: Uh and so that means that companies that have that opportunity fulfill uh those needs were increasingly, you know, we all used to be responsible for making our own commodities, you know, and farming and so forth.
[36:20] SPEAKER_01: We all used to be responsible for making our goods, clothes, and so forth.
[36:24] SPEAKER_01: You still remember when people took home ec, right?
[36:26] SPEAKER_01: So they're going to make their clothes when they when they grew up.
[36:29] SPEAKER_01: Uh and uh uh and then services, but now we pay other people to do all these things.
[36:34] SPEAKER_01: Uh and and we were always responsible for our own experiences, throwing our own birthday parties.
[36:38] SPEAKER_01: Now we go someplace and pay somebody else to throw a birthday party for our kids.
[36:41] SPEAKER_01: Uh and the same thing with transformations.
[36:43] SPEAKER_01: We're responsible for we're basically our own general contractor, right?
[36:46] SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna I want to get more fit, so commodities, I'm gonna buy more organ organic produce and and fruit and and uh I buy uh some some books to read about becoming more fit.
[36:58] SPEAKER_01: I buy some some fitness equipment, uh, I buy services such as uh you know Fitbit or other apps to track what I'm doing.
[37:05] SPEAKER_01: I go to a a fitness center and and pay a membership fee for the experience of being there.
[37:11] SPEAKER_01: But then, hey, when I'm really serious, I might want to hire a personal trainer, right?
[37:15] SPEAKER_01: One that truly understands what my aspirations are, doesn't just say, hey, go use the, you know, do your reps and equipment, but adjust to what I'm doing.
[37:23] SPEAKER_01: The senses in response to it.
[37:24] SPEAKER_01: And if I'm falling down, right, because we often have regress that goes along with the progress, will sit on you and yell at you, whatever it takes psychologically to uh to get that.
[37:34] SPEAKER_01: And increasingly one company can can take all of that and be the general contractor for you, just like I would never want to be a general contractor on my house.
[37:41] SPEAKER_01: So I'm gonna hire that out.
[37:42] SPEAKER_01: You should hire it out more and more for your transformations as well.
[37:46] SPEAKER_03: For sure.
[37:46] SPEAKER_03: No, it's a really good perspective.
[37:48] SPEAKER_03: One other thing on this topic of timing, because I find this so fascinating.
[37:52] SPEAKER_03: And um because it's one of the things that when travel companies are seeing people choosing them and then trying to figure out like what is it that's resonating or that's working, or why are they choosing our resort over another?
[38:03] SPEAKER_03: And one of the things that people are talking about uh in 2026 is wellness, and that's been an ongoing to your point, Joe.
[38:09] SPEAKER_03: I see this transformational conversation being the next 25 years, just like the experience economy was like the first 25, this is the next 25, 2026 is year one of kind of putting this on um the putting in the collective consciousness that this is what everyone needs to be focused on and where it needs to be headed.
[38:26] SPEAKER_03: But a concept like wellness is one of those ones that it comes up year after year.
[38:29] SPEAKER_03: But this year in particular, you know, when you combine wellness with traveling for purpose and identity, you're seeing these things.
[38:35] SPEAKER_03: You know, Price Waterhouse Coopers did a great presentation at the Forbes Travel Guide Conference.
[38:39] SPEAKER_03: And the reason I want to reference that is because I want to give credit where credit is due.
[38:42] SPEAKER_03: And they shared a couple of slides around the fact that, you know, half of solo female travelers are 50 plus, they're widowed and divorced.
[38:49] SPEAKER_03: Um, and many of them are taking GLP one.
[38:51] SPEAKER_03: This was one of the interesting stats.
[38:52] SPEAKER_03: And it was like, you know, they're and they're now feeling good about themselves.
[38:56] SPEAKER_03: And so they are taking different types of trips.
[38:58] SPEAKER_03: And I can see the lights going on around the room of all of these luxury hotels of kind of like, wait a second, that's why we're seeing those reservations or those customers come through our doors.
[39:08] SPEAKER_03: And for me, that's always, you know, as a marketer and someone that genuinely loves travel, I love to uh hear people then taking those types of trips.
[39:15] SPEAKER_03: And I wait a second, something's happening here.
[39:17] SPEAKER_03: And I even have friends of ours, um, a good friend of ours, she's divorced, she's got a uh and she is now uh going through this own transformation.
[39:25] SPEAKER_03: She's 49 years old, she has like left her corporate job, she's, you know, she's and she went on an intrepid trip and she uh to start the year.
[39:33] SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, this is I'm like, oh my God, I've been talking about this for a decade.
[39:37] SPEAKER_03: So this is where like where you find you start to see the connections and the correlation between you know what drives this behavior and then people actualizing it.
[39:45] SPEAKER_03: Um, is there anything else?
[39:46] SPEAKER_03: So my my question to you guys about the timing is there any other factors that we should be looking at or be aware of?
[39:52] SPEAKER_03: And I'll go back to Jake on this, because you mentioned things about digital overload, feeling disconnected, you know, um uh that bipartisan nature of like what social media unfortunately does to wind us up and rally us against each other in so many ways.
[40:05] SPEAKER_03: And I think more and more people are waking up to that and saying, I'm not going to participate on social.
[40:10] SPEAKER_03: I don't, I just want this trip is about myself, not about taking a selfie.
[40:14] SPEAKER_03: Like I'm seeing a bit more of that now.
[40:15] SPEAKER_03: There's a pushback towards, you know, it's not everything you see on social media is true.
[40:19] SPEAKER_03: So, Jake, from your vantage point, what are some of the other factors from a uh societal point of view, consumer point of view, that you're seeing why why customers are coming to you and saying we need this framework because our experiences today are not where are our meeting our customers where they're at?
[40:36] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, the the there's a lot happening, right?
[40:39] SPEAKER_02: Uh and you know, in the mental health crisis, right?
[40:42] SPEAKER_02: A lot of a lot of people feeling lonely.
[40:43] SPEAKER_02: I mean, I and and I and I don't want this to seem like something that's that big and grandiose.
[40:48] SPEAKER_02: It's very approachable, it can be playful, travel is wonderful.
[40:51] SPEAKER_02: Uh, but I, you know, when when when travelers come to their their hotel or their tour operator in their travel company and there's they're they're bringing forth that they'd like to uh find more clarity, you know, be more confident, become a better version of themselves, you know, find more meaning and purpose in their lives, you know, it what do you do?
[41:08] SPEAKER_02: You know, it is it is it just the status quo?
[41:11] SPEAKER_02: Uh, or are you going to have to do something a little bit differently?
[41:14] SPEAKER_02: Are you going to have to bring higher perspectives to how you design travel, how you engage, how you relate, how you guide and support.
[41:22] SPEAKER_02: Uh, you know, and so those travel companies that are on that leading edge, you know, are are the ones that uh um you know we need to be looking at and learning from, uh, you know, because it's very alive right now.
[41:33] SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
[41:33] SPEAKER_02: And that's what we're seeing the industry is we're seeing people playing and toying with different approaches uh and different mindsets because it's that big of a shift uh that's happening.
[41:43] SPEAKER_02: And you know, I I go back to what what Joe said around this isn't a trend, you know, this is aligning with sort of the universal way of living and being, right?
[41:53] SPEAKER_02: We're just applying it to travel, you know, and we're seeing like there's that uh innovation lifecycle, there's the the innovators and the early adopters, and then it the bell curve drops down into the laggards.
[42:04] SPEAKER_02: We're still very much in that early adopters, which I think is like three per 3.5% of the industry that's actually approaching this with a beginner's mind.
[42:14] SPEAKER_02: How can I unlearn what I was doing in travel before and integrate in these new principles and practices?
[42:20] SPEAKER_03: That's really interesting.
[42:21] SPEAKER_03: And so, Joe, this is actually a really good um uh point for you to please weigh in on, which is this, you know, one of the things I was keen to ask you was the intersection of trans that transformation economy and things like regenerative tourism, sustainability, these other things that we could actually point to are more trends.
[42:37] SPEAKER_03: These are like, yes, there's an increase in awareness of sustainability, regenerative tourism.
[42:42] SPEAKER_03: People are more conscientious now of not only the impact it's gonna have on themselves, but also a positive impact on the environment, other communities.
[42:49] SPEAKER_03: What I'm keen to ask you is like when you look at the transformation economy, are those things tied together?
[42:55] SPEAKER_03: Like, so are you know is the transformation economy intersecting with regenerative tourism, you know, this personal transformation as well as you know a a strong desire for like the planet and other people?
[43:07] SPEAKER_03: Are those connected in this realm of transformation?
[43:10] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
[43:11] SPEAKER_01: It's it's part of that consumer evolution model that I mentioned earlier, where experientialists and especially uh transformationalists um also have aspects of that of of I care about the planet as opposed to just about me.
[43:25] SPEAKER_01: And and recognize that that all transformation is identity change, right?
[43:30] SPEAKER_01: Which is something I got from uh Professor Susie Ross, who who Jake knows as well.
[43:34] SPEAKER_01: Uh and and it's really true.
[43:36] SPEAKER_01: If if if it's if it's only a state change, it's merely a transition.
[43:40] SPEAKER_01: If it's an identity change, uh either enhanced identity or new elements of identity, uh, then it's a transformation.
[43:46] SPEAKER_01: And peep increasingly people have as part of their identity that I'm someone who helps the planet, that I'm someone who helps regenerate what I'm doing.
[43:55] SPEAKER_01: And so there very much is an intertwining of those that a lot and a lot of times.
[44:00] SPEAKER_01: Transformational travel is in fact recognizing, well, I don't just want to change myself.
[44:04] SPEAKER_01: I want to be a contributor to what's going on in the destinations that I go.
[44:10] SPEAKER_01: It's one of the things that Jake and the TTC really, really focus on with destinations is getting people to leave the place better than when they arrive.
[44:18] SPEAKER_01: And it's the only thing that truly does uh does make travel sustainable.
[44:22] SPEAKER_03: Well, one of the things that took me back when I was speaking to Michael Zeisser, and clearly he's one of your disciples, I would say, of course, the experience economy, right?
[44:30] SPEAKER_03: And not only his investment, but also his thesis, which then applies to he gave me this is the part that took me back, is that he talked about investing in sustainable death.
[44:39] SPEAKER_03: I was like, I had not even heard that term before.
[44:41] SPEAKER_03: And I was like, well, walk me through that.
[44:43] SPEAKER_03: He'd mentioned it just before we hit record.
[44:45] SPEAKER_03: I'm like, we have to talk about this.
[44:46] SPEAKER_03: And I've subsequently looked it up to understand more about the fact that many people um are making more conscious decisions, and especially given the baby boom generation, like are aware.
[44:57] SPEAKER_03: And uh and the the other part we talked about, Joe, and is the fact that you know, being inspired by an academic like Joseph Campbell, who had this idea of the hero's journey, all uh theories that you're familiar with, the one I'd highlighted to him along the idea of the hero's journey was this idea that um you you can look at any society and determine what they truly value by the height of the buildings in their community, right?
[45:17] SPEAKER_03: If it's the church or if it's you know a medieval castle or if it's a bank.
[45:21] SPEAKER_03: Um but the but but the part about the hero's journey for me sounds it inherently selfish, right?
[45:25] SPEAKER_03: It's just like that you are it's you're out for yourself.
[45:28] SPEAKER_03: Whereas actually, that's and I wanted just to highlight that it's not it's not just about the personal transformation, because it's it's about being interconnected with the community.
[45:37] SPEAKER_03: And I I find that so fascinating because it is so I just I just wanted to like underline that for all of our listeners.
[45:43] SPEAKER_03: They don't get this wrong sense that like, wait, you want transformative travel, therefore we need to give you you know wellness and and cushy hotel rooms, and it's just like no no, you're missing the point.
[45:52] SPEAKER_03: That's not that's not transformation.
[45:54] SPEAKER_01: Campbell Campbell talked about uh where the hero comes back, he brings a boon with him, was the term he used, right?
[46:01] SPEAKER_01: He brings something with him that benefits the community once he comes back.
[46:05] SPEAKER_01: And the fact that when he became a hero, I mean, think of the Lord of the Rings and so forth, it's like you're a hero, but not just to your own benefit.
[46:12] SPEAKER_01: You're a hero because of how you affected the world, right?
[46:15] SPEAKER_01: It may be a small part of the world, but it's you contributed to human flourishing in the world.
[46:22] SPEAKER_01: And that's what made you a hero.
[46:24] SPEAKER_01: Otherwise, you're more of an anti-hero.
[46:25] SPEAKER_01: If it's a selfish thing, it's just about me and you don't care what happens to everybody else along with you.
[46:29] SPEAKER_03: Yeah, perfect.
[46:30] SPEAKER_03: No, I appreciate clarifying that point.
[46:31] SPEAKER_03: So, Jake, when we think about companies that are really leading the way now, I know you shared some examples of um companies that have kind of gone through the framework, but clearly there are some of those companies within that that are the most innovative and that are doing some of the most, I guess, groundbreaking work.
[46:47] SPEAKER_03: And uh, there was a couple that stood out to me, like walking mentorship.
[46:50] SPEAKER_03: Uh, tell us a little bit about some of those emerging models that you're seeing that are like already starting to take this concept to the next level.
[46:58] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
[46:59] SPEAKER_02: We mentioned walking mentorship, and they they certainly uh, you know, are North Stars and we we go out on their trips as a community just to experience, you know, what they're offering.
[47:08] SPEAKER_02: And, you know, they've got uh what they call as a survival kit, right?
[47:12] SPEAKER_02: Uh and it is to take you to destination you, right?
[47:15] SPEAKER_02: You are the destination.
[47:17] SPEAKER_02: Uh and uh and so that programmatic structure, along with walking in nature, having rich conversations, uh, you know, uh takes them on that on that journey or down that path to bring that back.
[47:29] SPEAKER_02: Uh, you know, another one that I'm seeing uh is Neotropic out of Ecuador.
[47:34] SPEAKER_02: Uh they just sent me a beta test of you know this really innovative uh uh survey and questionnaire uh to better understand who I am, what matters to me, what you know, what are my values, what am I, you know, what am I seeking in my travel experiences?
[47:50] SPEAKER_02: Uh, you know, and so weaving in that technology uh and in an effort to to really cultivate what people are looking for, I think is is is a wonderful example of how this is playing out.
[48:01] SPEAKER_02: And then we trade we trained their you know, their guides in Galapagos and and Amazon on the soft skills, you know, how to integrate and how to engage travelers in a different way that that establishes real connection, that creates safety, uh, and then opens up the opportunity for more meaning and more real connection.
[48:22] SPEAKER_03: Well, and I'm sure you're seeing companies that are trying to figure out within this their use of technology and whether it is, you know, in the uh in-destination experience itself, sometimes the absence of technology is what gives them the freedom, the space to disconnect and to be able to actually have that downtime and uh be away from a screen for all the wonderful benefits we know to be true.
[48:42] SPEAKER_03: That can just actually being bored.
[48:45] SPEAKER_03: Actually, can you imagine that?
[48:46] SPEAKER_03: I would try and tell my kids like the benefits of being bored.
[48:49] SPEAKER_03: There are many.
[48:51] SPEAKER_03: And so um, but yeah, when it comes to technology, I want to ask you both about this.
[48:55] SPEAKER_03: You know, in 2026, we've been talking about AI now for nearly three years as an industry.
[48:59] SPEAKER_03: I am a big advocate for AI in terms of technology and how it can be utilized.
[49:04] SPEAKER_03: It's definitely changing the consumer journey.
[49:06] SPEAKER_03: But the end of every keynote I give about AI, because I'm often asked to speak about this topic because we, you know, we do our AI summit, which I only created because I didn't think there was enough information out there for travel companies to figure out how they should be embracing this technology and where it's going to provide the most benefit and where they shouldn't allow their business to be uh changed by it.
[49:25] SPEAKER_03: And what and I finish every presentation, my final thing is about AI is the good news is for the travel industry, like what the the experience that we are so focused on is what is so special about us being human is being able to connect in person to be able to utilize all of our senses and like and so I've actually highlighted that I think in many ways that it'll be the year of anti-AI for some travel companies to highlight the fact that this is an escape away from technology, um, which is an easy trope to kind of jump on because it's like, you know, if you're fed up of hearing about it, come and take one of our trips.
[49:57] SPEAKER_03: And like, but I what what I want to ask you both is that there is a role for technology to play.
[50:01] SPEAKER_03: And I see that role of for technology being very much in the pre-trip experience, the consumer journey and how you're booking these trips and marketing.
[50:09] SPEAKER_03: Like again, there's so many different benefits.
[50:11] SPEAKER_03: However, what I want to ask you both is where you see and if you see a role for technology, whether it's AI, personalization, or even some of the tools that you might be able to have access to.
[50:21] SPEAKER_03: Do you see that playing into the on-trip experience?
[50:24] SPEAKER_03: Do you and and I'll ask you that question first, Jake, and then I'm gonna come back to you, Joe, on this one.
[50:28] SPEAKER_03: Because what I what I'd love to know from your vantage point as well is that is there a way to utilize the technology, um, to utilize the transformational economy framework in a purely digital way?
[50:40] SPEAKER_03: And that's a slightly different question I realize, but it's like, uh, but Jake, tell us first from a travel industry point of view, what's your take on transformation and how it relates to technology?
[50:50] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, I I I would I would go as far as say that AI might be the best thing that ever happened to the travel industry.
[50:56] SPEAKER_02: And uh, I'll tell you why.
[50:58] SPEAKER_02: Because it's going to force us to be human beings again.
[51:01] SPEAKER_02: Uh, and if you're in the travel industry, you have uh a responsibility to steward and take care of people, right?
[51:10] SPEAKER_02: A lot of us are drawn to hospitality, a lot of us are drawn to this work because we care, right?
[51:15] SPEAKER_02: And so integrating AI and technology and finding that right balance uh, you know, is going to allow you to focus on the things that matter the most.
[51:23] SPEAKER_02: Uh and you know, a lot of that is just reactivating how do we relate with our guests and our travelers, you know, and helping, you know, not only not only the the individual with you know at the hotel or the front desk person or the guide or the travel advisor, you know, start to activate their own human and human intelligence or whole body intelligence, head, heart, and gut, right?
[51:44] SPEAKER_02: Uh, you know, but how can you have travelers activate that as well, right?
[51:48] SPEAKER_02: Because we're in this shift where, you know, maybe this isn't as as valuable as as we think it is this day and age.
[51:54] SPEAKER_02: You know, so how do we start to rely on the things that make us uniquely human?
[51:58] SPEAKER_02: Uh, and so, you know, that travel is that space, right?
[52:02] SPEAKER_02: Especially in the transformation economy.
[52:04] SPEAKER_02: Explore new ways of being.
[52:05] SPEAKER_02: Start to think of what an inner compass, what an inner compass means.
[52:09] SPEAKER_02: What is intuition?
[52:10] SPEAKER_02: Should I go left or right here at this path, right?
[52:13] SPEAKER_02: Like these are some exciting things that are happening in the space that uh, you know, technology is gonna allow us to really deepen, um, which I'm excited about.
[52:22] SPEAKER_03: I love it.
[52:22] SPEAKER_03: I absolutely love it.
[52:23] SPEAKER_03: And I just, yeah, I've that's that is certainly my hope.
[52:28] SPEAKER_03: It is partly my expectation.
[52:29] SPEAKER_03: So I want you to be a hundred percent right about that.
[52:32] SPEAKER_03: And I I definitely want uh travel companies to take that advice and and realize that because uh this is so but but Joe, as it as it relates to you know your thinking with transfer the transformation economy, where does technology apply in that, especially in a year like you know, we've had this run-up, frothy stock markets, incredible valuations.
[52:51] SPEAKER_03: The technology is definitely real, but we also live in a sort of a dot-com bubble that's happening with AI.
[52:56] SPEAKER_03: And the question is like when people are listening to that, has that has that been corrected in 2026 or is the correction happening in 2027?
[53:04] SPEAKER_03: That we don't know.
[53:05] SPEAKER_03: Otherwise, we'd be having a different conversation.
[53:07] SPEAKER_03: But I but but I but obviously that technology is here now and is having an impact on people at the same time that you are defining this new epoch of this transformative economy.
[53:18] SPEAKER_03: So, how how does technology relate to that and specifically AI?
[53:21] SPEAKER_01: Well, the the core DNA of everything I talk about in the experience economy and the transformation economy is in fact out of my first book, Mass Customization, which is about efficiently serving customers uniquely.
[53:32] SPEAKER_01: And and you know, I talked about uh customization being like a law of gravity.
[53:36] SPEAKER_01: Well, customization is the antidote to competization.
[53:39] SPEAKER_01: Customization lifts you up where you can't help but be differentiated because you're working with each individual customer on defining exactly what they want and then providing it.
[53:49] SPEAKER_01: So the key to mass customization is modularity.
[53:52] SPEAKER_01: You know, I always like to to point out Lego building bricks, right?
[53:55] SPEAKER_01: That's uh it's always been the paragon of modularity because you put them together in so many different ways.
[54:00] SPEAKER_01: But what I discovered uh you know maybe a decade ago that there's there's another more powerful form of modularity, and that's digital modularity.
[54:09] SPEAKER_01: It's zeros and ones, right?
[54:11] SPEAKER_01: Anything you can put into zeros and ones, you can instantly change a zero and one and and vice versa.
[54:16] SPEAKER_01: And so you can instantaneously customize for people uh with digital technology.
[54:22] SPEAKER_01: And so that's so often it's a it's it's it's not the the experience itself they have, but it but it's how you put it all together, like the Simplini example that I mentioned, as a as a transformation of platform, it's because it's all digital technology.
[54:35] SPEAKER_01: I you know, I I I input a uh a changing number based on how much you want to what you want to do in your life and a legacy, and boom, instantly, everything changes.
[54:44] SPEAKER_01: And so it's a core element to that customization aspect of it.
[54:49] SPEAKER_01: Um but then when and when it comes to AI, AI you know is allows you to to mass customize on steroids, get to know people on a very close uh individual basis, not necessarily through large language modules, mo models, but through personal language models about based off of each individual person.
[55:08] SPEAKER_01: And so in particular, what it's gonna be good at is uh mentioned sensing and responding to what's actually going on during the full length of a of a transformation, and then be able to say, ah you because of this clue I just got to mind with that thing, then this person needs this sort of experience next rather than that sort of experience.
[55:25] SPEAKER_01: And so that will be a very, very powerful thing.
[55:27] SPEAKER_01: Some of those things AI can do itself.
[55:29] SPEAKER_01: I you know, I I do believe that um AI will be very effective counselors and therapists.
[55:36] SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, and if you you may not be old enough, but you may have read about to remember this personally.
[55:42] SPEAKER_01: But Eliza, you know, was this the psychotherapist from like the 1960s, one of the first programs.
[55:49] SPEAKER_01: And all it did was ask things like, you know, how does how does that make you feel?
[55:52] SPEAKER_01: Where they say, you know, they take off something you said last, right?
[55:55] SPEAKER_01: But people got actual value out of talking to this most simplest of programs.
[56:01] SPEAKER_01: And imagine what is happening today.
[56:03] SPEAKER_01: Of course, we got this this this problem where most AI today is a psychophant, you know, that just mirrors back to you.
[56:08] SPEAKER_01: And that's one of the problems when people get into you know, sort of a suicide loop where um where they're getting depressed and they echo it because the customer's always right in their view, and so therefore you really are depressed.
[56:19] SPEAKER_01: Oh, you really should.
[56:20] SPEAKER_01: Should I end my life?
[56:21] SPEAKER_01: Well, yeah, you know, maybe that is the right thing to do, right?
[56:23] SPEAKER_01: And we've got to avoid those sorts of things.
[56:26] SPEAKER_01: Um, but I think it'll be helpful in in counseling, which is just one form of guiding.
[56:33] SPEAKER_00: We'll be right back.
[56:36] SPEAKER_00: Planning your next trip abroad?
[56:37] SPEAKER_00: Stay connected the smart way with Olafly, the global leader in eSIMs for travelers.
[56:42] SPEAKER_00: With coverage in over 200 destinations and a 4.6 out of 5 trust pilot rating, Olafly is the go-to for international travel.
[56:50] SPEAKER_00: Forget fumbling with SIM cards, Olafly's eSIM activates instantly with a QR code.
[56:56] SPEAKER_00: You'll be online in just two minutes with unlimited data and no surprise roaming charges.
[57:00] SPEAKER_00: Whether it's a short getaway, frequent business travel, or life as a digital nomad, Olafly has a plan for you.
[57:07] SPEAKER_00: Get started today at esim.olafly.com.
[57:10] SPEAKER_00: That's esim.holy.com.
[57:15] SPEAKER_00: In a world of endless travel options, how do you guarantee quality?
[57:19] SPEAKER_00: The answer is curation, and it's the core of Civitadas, the leading marketplace for global tours and activities.
[57:26] SPEAKER_00: Instead of just more options, their promise is more quality.
[57:29] SPEAKER_00: Their experts handpick the best from over 90,000 activities in 4,000 destinations worldwide, ensuring every tour meets the highest standards of quality, availability, and price.
[57:40] SPEAKER_00: They focus this winning strategy on capturing the world's fastest growing customer market, travelers from Latin America.
[57:47] SPEAKER_00: By connecting these travelers to their global portfolio of experiences in native Spanish or Portuguese, Civitatus creates the powerful customer loyalty your business can count on.
[57:56] SPEAKER_00: Their model is a proven formula for generating massive demand and driving industry-leading conversion.
[58:01] SPEAKER_00: For the travel trade, the message is clear.
[58:03] SPEAKER_00: Partnering with Civitatus is your strategy for capturing the massive outbound Latin American market and turning their growth into your revenue.
[58:10] SPEAKER_00: Visit Civitatus.com for more details.
[58:14] SPEAKER_00: Today, 65% of travel queries trigger an AI overview.
[58:18] SPEAKER_00: If your brand isn't showing up there, you're losing bookings.
[58:21] SPEAKER_00: It's that simple.
[58:23] SPEAKER_00: This is the new reality that Propellit, the AI First Digital Marketing Agency for Travel, helps brands master.
[58:29] SPEAKER_00: Their entire focus is on delivering what matters performance bookings, not just clicks.
[58:34] SPEAKER_00: They've done the research on how AI is changing everything from search to purchase.
[58:39] SPEAKER_00: You can find their groundbreaking new report right on their website.
[58:42] SPEAKER_00: And while you're there, join over a thousand travel marketers by subscribing to their newsletter, the Navlog.
[58:48] SPEAKER_00: Stay ahead of the curve.
[58:49] SPEAKER_00: Visit propelic.com.
[58:51] SPEAKER_00: And now, back to the show.
[58:54] SPEAKER_03: The one other thing for both of you, I want to just talk about the future to that point, Joe, about 2026 and beyond for both TTC and the transformation economy.
[59:03] SPEAKER_03: I know, Joe, you're on tour with your book, and we're gonna highlight some of the details about that.
[59:08] SPEAKER_03: I want to also highlight uh the plans, but around TTC, because you kind of got a like a 10-year plan.
[59:13] SPEAKER_03: And I really see that, you know, Jake, you've been on this exciting journey, but I kind of think this is kind of that next step change for you and the team and the organization because of Joe's book being published, because of conversations like this happening.
[59:25] SPEAKER_03: It's just like, hey, wait a second.
[59:26] SPEAKER_03: We've been here all along.
[59:28] SPEAKER_03: We've been like, we've been waiting for the day that everyone starts paying attention to this.
[59:32] SPEAKER_03: Um, so tell us a little bit about what your plans are with TCC over the long term and some of the things that specifically people should be uh pay uh paying attention to in 2026.
[59:43] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, thank you.
[59:44] SPEAKER_02: Um no doubt, been waiting, uh waiting for a while.
[59:47] SPEAKER_02: It's been like uh pushing a boulder up the hill, Dan, but uh it's coming and and uh couldn't be more excited about more positioning for for for that uh um for this next stage.
[59:58] SPEAKER_02: Uh, you know, we're we're introducing new courses and catal uh or new courses and uh connection opportunities for our membership and for those that are in that are interested in going down this path.
[1:00:10] SPEAKER_02: And you know, our our our programs in the past have been pretty significant deep dives.
[1:00:14] SPEAKER_02: Uh, you know, and so if we're going to really um guide this, you know, be part of guiding this next stage, you know, we got to be able to meet people where they're at.
[1:00:22] SPEAKER_02: So we're introducing new content, synchronous, asynchronous, you know, different topics, you know, some some of it will be into like, you know, how do you bring more on wonder into into your itinerary?
[1:00:34] SPEAKER_02: How do you coach and mentor?
[1:00:35] SPEAKER_02: How do you do a good diagnosis?
[1:00:37] SPEAKER_02: What why is regenerative development uh or how does regenerative development uh uh create the fertile conditions for transformation?
[1:00:45] SPEAKER_02: Uh right.
[1:00:45] SPEAKER_02: So we're gonna we're gonna be really expanding on that front.
[1:00:48] SPEAKER_02: But what I'm really excited about is is is the consulting, you know, and the private training, doing the deep dives with communities and destinations and hospitality companies that are ready to go down this path.
[1:00:59] SPEAKER_02: Because it, you know, it is it is so much more than you know a you know, a half day course or a six-week course, right?
[1:01:06] SPEAKER_02: Like some of these projects we've been working on for 18 months or longer.
[1:01:10] SPEAKER_02: You know, this is this is a process.
[1:01:12] SPEAKER_02: Um, and so we're excited to get back into that.
[1:01:14] SPEAKER_02: You know, one thing that that uh I do want to mention that uh that I think is really exciting is uh as a as a sign of this adoption, is there's this uh one of the largest um land conservation organizations is asked us to to build an entire experience strategy based on transformative design and and regenerative development uh to really uh to build eco camps across their their their uh collection of preserves.
[1:01:42] SPEAKER_02: Uh and you know, because they recognize that in that model, not only are they, you know, delivering on their vision and mission and they're attracting new audience and that Gen Z millennials, uh, but they're able to move people down that path that Joe talked about in terms of like, yeah, I enjoy time and nature into I'm an activist, I'm a guardian, I'm a conservationist, I'm a donor.
[1:02:04] SPEAKER_02: You know, and so you know that that's that's the sort of work that's really lightened me up and that I'm super excited about, and we'll continue to to to to to position ourselves for that at uh at the TTC.
[1:02:15] SPEAKER_03: Well, the CEO of Onward, who you know, Anisa, reached out after our last conversation, and she, and this is where like it it thrills me to no end when someone reaches out and says, Oh my God, I love Jake.
[1:02:25] SPEAKER_03: We've been working together for years.
[1:02:26] SPEAKER_03: I'm so thrilled that he was on your show.
[1:02:28] SPEAKER_03: We've been taking his techniques and applying it to all these trips that we plan for all these groups, and we've had so much success with it.
[1:02:34] SPEAKER_03: And this is like, oh my God, this is fantastic.
[1:02:36] SPEAKER_03: We took we met up at World Travel Market in London, and she was telling me more about it afterwards.
[1:02:40] SPEAKER_03: She sent me a message to start off the new year, and I was like, you know, and so that's where for me it becomes really meaningful, really impactful.
[1:02:47] SPEAKER_03: And this is the magic behind a company like Onward that's able to then grow in the market, have success.
[1:02:52] SPEAKER_03: And these groups don't know necessarily why it's happening, they just know that they love that it is happening, right?
[1:02:57] SPEAKER_03: But it's because but there's a lot of intentionality there that you've helped them shape about the experience.
[1:03:03] SPEAKER_03: And so, um, and so Joe, obviously, you've got a big year uh ahead.
[1:03:06] SPEAKER_03: You're gonna be traveling a lot.
[1:03:08] SPEAKER_03: I want to make sure that, you know, in addition to myself, I know many of our listeners are gonna be reading your book, cherishing it, following up, posting.
[1:03:15] SPEAKER_03: Uh, you know, I felt I had a brief glimpse of what it would be like to be as um, I'm not a writer, I'm a I'm a I'm a talker, so I'm not I'm not going in this direction.
[1:03:23] SPEAKER_03: But even when people take a little excerpt of the post that I did and it meant something to them, and then they share that and say, you've got to read this article.
[1:03:30] SPEAKER_03: I'm sure you're gonna hear so much of that this year as you're traveling around.
[1:03:34] SPEAKER_03: Tell us about your book launch, how things have gone, and then what also you know some of the events to look forward to over the course of the year, and then of course, where people should order their copy.
[1:03:45] SPEAKER_01: Well, I just had a uh book launch last month in the Netherlands for a European audience and one uh this month in uh Minneapolis uh for the U.S.
[1:03:54] SPEAKER_01: audience and doing a number of things.
[1:03:56] SPEAKER_01: I'm actually speaking at uh this year's Forbes Travel Guide Summit in Monaco.
[1:04:01] SPEAKER_01: I don't know if you're gonna be there.
[1:04:02] SPEAKER_01: We get another chance to beat.
[1:04:04] SPEAKER_01: Um but uh there are many other things that are that are lined up to help spread the word of what's going on.
[1:04:10] SPEAKER_01: And uh it sort of it sort of gets back to your to the what we were talking about with the heroes' journey, right?
[1:04:16] SPEAKER_01: Is I'm not encouraging uh people to read the book because I get royalties or to hire me to speak because I get money, although I do.
[1:04:26] SPEAKER_01: I'm I I want people to read the book and to help me work with them because I want to change the world myself.
[1:04:34] SPEAKER_01: Right?
[1:04:35] SPEAKER_01: I want I want companies to recognize that why they exist is to foster human flourishing.
[1:04:41] SPEAKER_01: And that transformations is the most most uh direct way of being able to do that.
[1:04:45] SPEAKER_01: All economic offerings foster human flourishing, but transformations do that most directly, and there's opportunity there where they can be a positive force for change in the world, as business has always been, but we can now in in in in Toto, not individual issues, uh, but uh but now we can amp that up even further.
[1:05:02] SPEAKER_01: Right?
[1:05:02] SPEAKER_01: If we recognize that we can transform people who then transform the world themselves by by greater and greater flourishing.
[1:05:10] SPEAKER_03: And there's one last question I have for each of you.
[1:05:12] SPEAKER_03: Thank you for that.
[1:05:13] SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna make sure uh everyone will hear in my closing uh a little bit just about all the ways that you can connect with Joe, order the book, and continue to be a part of the conversation.
[1:05:22] SPEAKER_03: Um, but one of the things I wanted you guys to each close on, please, is one mindset shift that you believe the industry must now take as a result of this shift.
[1:05:33] SPEAKER_03: And uh Joe already highlighted one that really stood out to me when we were together at the arrival conference, which was the idea of you know, looking at a travel guide, which is an essential part of the experience, and actually realizing they're they are the what they're the human touch point, and they're truly a guide, even though I don't think I and I saw it in the room, Joe, when you said that.
[1:05:52] SPEAKER_03: And a couple people mentioned to me afterwards, actually, it's in that episode where people were just like the lights went on for people when you said that, a term that they just know so well.
[1:06:00] SPEAKER_03: And just like, oh yeah, they're the guide.
[1:06:01] SPEAKER_03: But it's just like, no, the guide.
[1:06:03] SPEAKER_03: Like it's just think about what that means and how important that is.
[1:06:06] SPEAKER_03: So that's that's already one you've highlighted with everyone.
[1:06:09] SPEAKER_03: But I want each of you just to finish off by you know sharing um one of those mindset shifts that everyone should take away from this conversation, take away from your book or or your work too, Jake.
[1:06:19] SPEAKER_03: Uh so maybe Jake, why don't you go first?
[1:06:21] SPEAKER_03: What what is one mindset shift you'd like to see our industry make in 2026?
[1:06:26] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I it would be to to bring a beginner's mind uh to your work.
[1:06:31] SPEAKER_02: Uh and uh because I I I think that you know, as as those that have have have read Joe's book, you know, this this is not just a small change, it's a it's a paradigm shift.
[1:06:42] SPEAKER_02: And and to think that you can just continue to do the same and and get different results and to meet the market demand is is is is just not it's just not accurate and you're gonna fall behind.
[1:06:53] SPEAKER_02: Um you know, so so bringing a beginner's mind and totally reevaluating how you see the opportunity that you have as a traveler or in the travel industry uh to really deliver on helping people become better versions of themselves, contribute to communities, you know, build a better society.
[1:07:12] SPEAKER_02: Uh and it it does start with just being open uh and and and reevaluating how you're positioned in it and the opportunity that you have.
[1:07:21] SPEAKER_02: So, you know, go go back, go within, go on your own transformative journey.
[1:07:25] SPEAKER_02: Uh reevaluate what are your values, what are your purpose?
[1:07:28] SPEAKER_02: What is the meaning you want to get out?
[1:07:29] SPEAKER_02: And how can you build a really thriving organization that is providing exceptional value and then and then go from there?
[1:07:37] SPEAKER_03: Awesome.
[1:07:37] SPEAKER_03: Thought-provoking, super helpful, and I like that idea of like just seeing things, seeing it again with fresh eyes.
[1:07:42] SPEAKER_03: So many people in their travel roles, they see they're in that forest, right?
[1:07:45] SPEAKER_03: And they just need to take a step back and realize what what you're in the business of doing.
[1:07:49] SPEAKER_03: And I think that's what Joe's point uh did to the people in the room.
[1:07:52] SPEAKER_03: And Joe, is there any uh additional mindset shift you'd encourage people to embrace in 2026?
[1:07:57] SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I would I would say that what you want to do is ascend to the proposition that you are in the transformation business.
[1:08:06] SPEAKER_01: Not just the experiences, and it's okay, thank you, Jay.
[1:08:08] SPEAKER_01: It's okay to to talk about uh experiences, continue to stage experiences, but ascend to the proposition that you're in the transformation business.
[1:08:16] SPEAKER_01: And when you do that, everything else flows.
[1:08:19] unknown: Right?
[1:08:19] SPEAKER_01: Everything else flows from that, and you will figure out how to how to uh make that succeed and even thrive in the transformation economy.
[1:08:27] SPEAKER_01: Fantastic.
[1:08:27] SPEAKER_03: And we're gonna leave it there because those are uh profound words that I think everyone should take away from this conversation and a perfect way to close out season six of our podcast.
[1:08:36] SPEAKER_03: I can't thank you both enough for rejoining us for this conversation.
[1:08:40] SPEAKER_03: I think it's a perfect way to end this season.
[1:08:42] SPEAKER_03: And I know we're gonna continue talking about transformative travel in season seven, season eight, and probably for the next 25 years, Joe.
[1:08:49] SPEAKER_03: So I got we got some runtime here, but uh I thank you both.
[1:08:53] SPEAKER_03: Thank you, Joe, for joining us.
[1:08:54] SPEAKER_03: Good luck with everything you have planned for this year.
[1:08:56] SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
[1:08:57] SPEAKER_03: And thank you, Jake, for everything you've contributed to making sure these conversations happen in the first place.
[1:09:02] SPEAKER_03: And I couldn't be more thrilled for you and the team.
[1:09:03] SPEAKER_03: So I wish you every success going forward.
[1:09:05] SPEAKER_03: And thanks again for joining us.
[1:09:06] SPEAKER_02: Hey, thank thank you, Dan.
[1:09:08] SPEAKER_02: Thanks for being a uh a voice.
[1:09:10] SPEAKER_03: Thanks so much for joining us on our season finale of Travel Trends, season six.
[1:09:14] SPEAKER_03: Thanks again to Joe and Jake for joining us to close out this incredible season with this really special episode.
[1:09:21] SPEAKER_03: I want to encourage everyone to order Joe Pine's new book.
[1:09:24] SPEAKER_03: I can't wait to read it myself.
[1:09:26] SPEAKER_03: It's now officially out.
[1:09:27] SPEAKER_03: I'll be reading it shortly.
[1:09:28] SPEAKER_03: I am gonna be getting a signed copy from Joe, and I'm gonna be ordering a number of copies for all of my friends and colleagues.
[1:09:35] SPEAKER_03: This is a landmark book that, as you heard about on this podcast, we're gonna be talking about for the next decade.
[1:09:41] SPEAKER_03: So this is not just the year of transformative travel.
[1:09:44] SPEAKER_03: This is the start of a whole new era, just like in 2000 with the experience economy.
[1:09:49] SPEAKER_03: So I hope you got a lot of benefit from today's conversation with both Joe and Jake.
[1:09:53] SPEAKER_03: And of course, you can find out more information about TTC at transformational.travel slash get started if you want to take one of their courses, which will be a perfect compliment with Joe's new book.
[1:10:05] SPEAKER_03: So thanks again to Joe and Jake, and thanks to all of our listeners for being such an important part of the Travel Trends podcast and community.
[1:10:14] SPEAKER_03: Thanks for all your feedback over the course of this season.
[1:10:16] SPEAKER_03: Thanks again to all of our guests that joined us.
[1:10:19] SPEAKER_03: Thanks to our sponsors that have supported our show and continue to.
[1:10:23] SPEAKER_03: And I just want to make sure everyone marks their calendar for season seven starting March 4th, 2026.
[1:10:29] SPEAKER_03: Over the next couple of weeks, we will be releasing a number of spotlight episodes.
[1:10:34] SPEAKER_03: We have three episodes a week now of travel trends in 2026.
[1:10:38] SPEAKER_03: And these spotlight episodes, I absolutely love doing them, and they are going to be released every Thursday.
[1:10:44] SPEAKER_03: So make sure you're subscribed on the streaming platform of your choice and continue to follow our spotlight episodes until we launch season seven of Travel Trends in March with themes including sun holidays, luxury hotels, agentic AI, and the return of experiences, which is where this conversation started with Joe and Jake.
[1:11:03] SPEAKER_03: And then also a return to loyalty, a big topic that I want to focus more on in 2026.
[1:11:09] SPEAKER_03: So lots to look forward to, as well as a number of one-off episodes and a special opening episode that I can't wait to share with everybody as we move into full video with the mentalist David Stryker.
[1:11:22] SPEAKER_03: I'm looking forward to having a lot of fun in season seven and continuing these conversations.
[1:11:26] SPEAKER_03: Thanks again for joining us and for being such a key part of Travel Trends.
[1:11:30] SPEAKER_03: And until we speak again, safe travels.

Shows are listed from Apple Podcasts' charts and directory, and Podcast Index where it is used. Every show and episode belongs to its publisher and plays from the publisher's own feed; this site hosts none of them.