# The Rise of Rail Part 2 - Luxury Rail Travel: The New Golden Age

An episode of [Travel Trends with Dan Christian](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1689330635), 12 May 2026, 54 min.

Audio: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2172036/episodes/19161278-the-rise-of-rail-part-2-luxury-rail-travel-the-new-golden-age.mp3

Send us Fan Mail Rail is having a moment and not just as a way to travel, but as a way to experience the world differently. As part of Rail Month, we are diving deeper into the category in this second episode of our The Rise of Rail Series with Railbookers, this time focusing on the return of luxury rail. Luxury rail travel is back, and it is no longer just about getting from point A to point B. Dan sits down with Railbookers leaders Gareth Jones, Director of Product Development, and Tyler Wallinger, Director of Virtual Events, to unpack what “luxury” really looks like on rails today, from elevated service and spacious suites to curated off train excursions that feel private, personal, and unforgettable. Along the way, we spotlight some of the world’s most iconic journeys, including the Venice Simplon Orient Express, Glacier Express Excellence Class, Rovos Rail in Southern Africa, and India’s Maharaja Express. We also get practical about how a luxury rail itinerary actually comes together, why some journeys allow for five star hotel extensions and multi city add ons, while others are designed as fully immersive, all in experiences with limited cabin inventory and carefully choreographed schedules. Gareth and Tyler share why culinary is at the heart of luxury rail, with fine dining in intimate settings, locally sourced ingredients, thoughtful wine pairings, and seamless accommodation of dietary needs. It is hospitality on rails, where attention to detail and consistent service create an experience that can feel even more personal than a traditional luxury cruise. Finally, we explore who today’s luxury rail traveler really is, from milestone celebrations like anniversaries, honeymoons, retirements, and birthdays, to a growing segment of repeat guests who experience one iconic train and immediately plan the next. For travel advisors, this episode offers clear positioning language to help sell the category, including how luxury rail compares to river and ocean cruising as a luxury land cruise, blending scenery, culture, and storytelling just beyond your window. Learn more at Railbookers.com and Rail Month. Be sure to join us next Tuesday for the final episode in our Rail Series with Railbookers. The #1 B2B Travel Podcast Globally. Over 100 Episodes. Listeners in 125 countries. New Episodes Every Weds. https://www.traveltrendspodcast.com/

## Chapters

- 0:05 Welcome To The Luxury Rail Series
- 3:48 What Luxury Rail Really Means
- 8:12 Designing High-End Rail Itineraries
- 10:35 Fine Dining In A Moving Kitchen
- 13:43 Off-Train Excursions And Personal Touches
- 19:56 Who Books Luxury Trains Now
- 26:01 Repeat Travelers And Bucket-List Momentum
- 28:45 Why Travel Advisors Drive Luxury Rail
- 31:54 How To Sell First-Time Luxury Rail
- 34:44 Best Starter Routes And Train Styles
- 39:31 What’s Fueling Luxury Rail Growth
- 46:31 Booking Tips And Limited Departures
- 48:53 Favorite Trips And What’s Next

## Transcript

[0:05] SPEAKER_03: Hello, everyone, and welcome back to our special rail series in partnership with our friends over at Railbookers.
[0:11] SPEAKER_03: I hope you enjoyed episode one on scenic and iconic destinations.
[0:15] SPEAKER_03: I loved having the opportunity to speak about trains with both Matt and Jim.
[0:20] SPEAKER_03: Jim's obviously been on our podcast before, Jim Marini, who is Frank's younger brother, as he was uh keen to point out to everybody.
[0:27] SPEAKER_03: Uh, but it was great to have Matt Foy on the podcast as well to talk about these incredible train journeys that he's very involved in creating.
[0:35] SPEAKER_03: This is episode two of our three-part series, and I'm delighted today to have two exceptional guests from the Rail Bookers team to talk about luxury.
[0:45] SPEAKER_03: So at the end of last episode, we almost started getting into, and Jim brought up some great examples of luxury rail trips, and that's actually why we had specifically created this episode on luxury rail travel, the new golden age.
[0:59] SPEAKER_03: And today we have Gareth Jones, the director of product development at Railbookers, and Tyler Wallinger, the director of virtual events, here to join us as well.
[1:09] SPEAKER_03: So, first of all, welcome guys, welcome Gareth, welcome Tyler.
[1:12] SPEAKER_03: Great to have you on the podcast.
[1:13] SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Dan.
[1:14] SPEAKER_00: Great to be here.
[1:14] SPEAKER_00: Really appreciate it.
[1:15] SPEAKER_00: And it's nice to hear you were talking to my good friend Matt not too long ago.
[1:19] SPEAKER_00: Um Yeah, yeah.
[1:20] SPEAKER_00: Good to be here.
[1:21] SPEAKER_00: That's great.
[1:21] SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Tyler.
[1:22] SPEAKER_03: And uh Gareth, yes, of course, your friend Matt, who's in the UK.
[1:26] SPEAKER_03: Tell everyone where you are based.
[1:28] SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, sorry, I'm based in in York, in the UK.
[1:30] SPEAKER_00: I've been with Railbookers for coming up to 18 years now, so I've worked very closely with Matt.
[1:35] SPEAKER_00: He's been here 20 years, or old buddy, should we say.
[1:37] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's amazing.
[1:38] SPEAKER_03: We were talking about just how long some of the tenure is at Railbookers, and it's extraordinary because it was the first time I had met Matt.
[1:44] SPEAKER_03: Obviously, the first chance we get a chance to connect here.
[1:46] SPEAKER_03: Obviously, I've been at the conference, and I have a great respect for the company culture at Railbookers and getting to see the travel advisors and also the customers that love traveling with Railbookers was really uh heartening for me.
[1:58] SPEAKER_03: And uh given just I love this category.
[2:01] SPEAKER_03: And uh but Tyler, let's bring you in too.
[2:03] SPEAKER_03: Where tell everyone where you're based and a little bit about your role.
[2:06] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, thanks so much for having me in Dan.
[2:08] SPEAKER_02: This is really exciting to talk about my my passion, which is train travel, especially luxury train travel.
[2:15] SPEAKER_02: Um, I'm actually based in Corn Cornline, Idaho, and I've been with the company for about eight years and started actually what being in the contact center, being one of our account executives, and uh basically going working through the ranks to become an inside sales leader and uh join into our business development team, and then of course, now being our director of virtual events.
[2:39] SPEAKER_02: Fantastic.
[2:39] SPEAKER_03: Yeah, no, I appreciate joining us.
[2:40] SPEAKER_03: I'm sure as soon as the listeners hear the two different access that you each have that and the also the different perspective you have from your positions at Rail Bookers and how ultimately it connects to the luxury experience because this is a category that I'm incredibly bullish on, like not only rail travel, but luxury travel.
[2:59] SPEAKER_03: We've seen this market uh be much more resilient post-pandemic, uh, giving other factors that are at play and global events.
[3:06] SPEAKER_03: So, one of the things I was keen to speak to you guys about is the fact that the luxury sector just keeps growing.
[3:12] SPEAKER_03: And the type of customer that is booking these high-end trips, they're very experience driven.
[3:18] SPEAKER_03: But one of the things that's also very unique about railbookers is that you put together these scenic and iconic rail journeys with accommodation, with restaurants, and you take groups on these extraordinary experiences around the world, but clearly there's been a big shift to luxury travel.
[3:34] SPEAKER_03: Now, the one thing that always stands out to me when we think about luxury is that there's so many different types of luxury.
[3:39] SPEAKER_03: There's affordable luxury now, there's ultra luxury.
[3:41] SPEAKER_03: So it's yeah, so that's one of the things I wanted to start off with for both you, Gareth and Tyler, and maybe Gareth will start with you.
[3:48] SPEAKER_03: If you wouldn't mind giving us an overview of how you would describe luxury rail travel and a luxury rail experience.
[3:57] SPEAKER_00: As you say, Dan, it's the eternal question, isn't it?
[4:00] SPEAKER_00: Is what is luxury, really?
[4:01] SPEAKER_00: You know, what is it?
[4:02] SPEAKER_00: It's it's so different nowadays.
[4:03] SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think luxury trains for me, it's more well, it's kind of you look at private train enterprises, for example, that aren't just about getting from A to B.
[4:13] SPEAKER_00: But then, as you say, the whole aspect is changing so much, but now these national rail operators who are traditionally just serviced from A to B are getting involved in the luxury side as well.
[4:22] SPEAKER_00: Thinking of Trinitalia's excellence class, for example, where you know you get a cooked meal served to your seat and fine dining all the way throughout.
[4:30] SPEAKER_00: But I think it's that different level of service, you know.
[4:34] SPEAKER_00: Um, there are so many different varieties of luxury train, be it the Glacier Express excellence class where it's just a views out the window or a 16-night five-star Odyssey across Africa.
[4:44] SPEAKER_00: They're very different experiences, but what they all have in common is just the elevated level of service on board.
[4:50] SPEAKER_00: It's not just a ticket collector or a trolley service with sandwiches, for example.
[4:54] SPEAKER_00: You know, it's that elevated level of service wherever you are on a train.
[4:58] SPEAKER_03: And Tyler, how would you describe rail travel, a luxury rail travel?
[5:02] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, luxury rail travel is not just about getting from point A to point point B.
[5:09] SPEAKER_02: It's more about the experience, feeling immersed with the luxury uh accommodation, the dining, the curated experiences, even off the train.
[5:20] SPEAKER_02: And it's something that everyone's looking forward to.
[5:25] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, not only just being able to ride the train, but being able to take pictures, being able to enjoy the militia-star dining.
[5:33] SPEAKER_02: And we're seeing a huge shift, people wanting to uh experience these types of luxury trains, either be the Venice Employee Orient Express, to Robust Rail, to even, of course, like some of the trains that Gareth was mentioning, like the Glass Express and Access Glass.
[5:54] SPEAKER_02: Bring both the exclusivity and the deeply experiential side uh of what guests are looking for and to experience a luxury train.
[6:04] SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I like that you said glacier, even though you have an American accent.
[6:08] SPEAKER_03: I like that you picked up on his British pronunciation, the glacier uh or glacier.
[6:14] SPEAKER_03: It depends who you're talking to.
[6:16] SPEAKER_03: Yeah, exactly.
[6:16] SPEAKER_03: That was that was very nice.
[6:18] SPEAKER_03: You were complimenting him nicely, but I just wanted to make sure for all of our Americans and Canadians uh who by and large would say glacier, that they knew exactly what we're referring to.
[6:26] SPEAKER_03: Yeah, exactly.
[6:27] SPEAKER_03: The other thing I wanted to point out to all of our listeners, just as we're having this conversation, many people are probably already on the website if they're multitasking, railbookers.com.
[6:34] SPEAKER_03: And there is the travel styles and luxury rail, is obviously the place I would point everyone as we're having this conversation, because as Gareth and Tyler mention a couple of these specific itineraries, I think it would be actually helpful to picture the destination itself.
[6:49] SPEAKER_03: You can have a look at the map, you can have a look at the different uh train carriages, and this is the part where you know you guys are mentioning like uh the Orient Express that goes from Paris to Venice, which is truly extraordinary and very exquisite and really kind of ultra luxury.
[7:04] SPEAKER_03: Um, and so you clearly have the full range of luxury experiences.
[7:08] SPEAKER_03: There's some that are more affordable, and then there are some that are truly uh ultra luxury, is the way I would describe your portfolio.
[7:15] SPEAKER_03: You know, you have, of course, the amazing Rocky Mountaineer, which is definitely a luxurious experience, but it's, you know, many of these I've also come to understand, and Frank mentioned this in the end of our last episode, is the fact that the difference between uh a classic rail journey and a luxury rail journey is often the class of cabin that you'll then be positioned in, then the seat that you'll have, and then the service that you'll provide.
[7:39] SPEAKER_03: And so I found this all incredibly fascinating.
[7:41] SPEAKER_03: I've not had the privilege yet myself to take one of these luxury train trips, but I know a number of colleagues of mine who have and have come back raving about it.
[7:50] SPEAKER_03: Um, and if anything, one of the things that came up at the Virtuoso conference that I know is a big partner of yours is that high net worth individuals who book these trips are actually often less likely to post about them because it seems a little too self-indulgent given how incredibly luxurious some of these experiences are.
[8:08] SPEAKER_03: Um but let's take it a step back just to understand each of your roles.
[8:12] SPEAKER_03: So, Gareth, I'm gonna come back to you on this one.
[8:13] SPEAKER_03: Since you are the director of product uh development, and given the length of experience you've had, I mean, you started as a product and purchasing manager at Railbookers.
[8:22] SPEAKER_03: This is again one of the things I love about the Railbookers culture is there's a lot of promotion from within and giving people the opportunity.
[8:28] SPEAKER_03: The company is growing.
[8:29] SPEAKER_03: You know, we'll talk to Frank in next week's episode just about the growth of the last few years and what is uh continued to be expected in in 2026.
[8:37] SPEAKER_03: But tell us a little bit about how you put together luxury itineraries themselves.
[8:42] SPEAKER_03: Since Matt did a great job of just talking about the classic itineraries, tell us about how you actually put together a luxurious rail experience, combining what is already a luxurious, a luxurious route and cabin.
[8:55] SPEAKER_03: Um, but yeah, the the full holiday experience.
[8:57] SPEAKER_03: How does that all come together?
[8:58] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's a really good question, actually, Dan.
[9:01] SPEAKER_00: And it's you know, I think the luxury trains vary so much, uh, for example, obviously, depending on where they where they are, the number of nights on board, the number of departures they have, of course, as well.
[9:11] SPEAKER_00: If we take, I mean, you mentioned the Venice Simplon or Express, for example, from Paris to Venice, a classic journey.
[9:17] SPEAKER_00: It's more like travelling on a piece of art.
[9:19] SPEAKER_00: Because it's just one night on board, obviously it's an amazing experience, but it gives someone like me and the company the ability to offer a lot more around it.
[9:27] SPEAKER_00: And it's obviously a key point of what we provide and what we see booking from our customers, as well as that as the luxury experience itself.
[9:36] SPEAKER_00: But then clients may stay in a three or four-star hotel in Venice, Florence, and Rome, for example, or go down to Sorrento or even Sicily for a few nights by the by the seat by the beach.
[9:45] SPEAKER_00: Um so it can differ hugely depending on the trains.
[9:50] SPEAKER_00: Now, of course, mentioned uh Rovos Rail in Africa, or South Africa predominantly as well.
[9:57] SPEAKER_00: There you've got a huge array of opportunities to look at, so adding on a safari or including a beach day, for example.
[10:04] SPEAKER_00: Um we're often driven by customer demand, just in terms of what we see people requesting, then we can work up that as well, but really constrained by the number of departures as well and the the actual length of the trip.
[10:17] SPEAKER_00: Another great one which is proving to be very popular, sadly, there's only two or three departures of the year, is the Golden Eagle Silk Road departure, which is obviously kind of upwards going up to 20 nights and things like that.
[10:28] SPEAKER_00: Doesn't leave too much space for someone like me, for example, to create more start in the end of it, but it is just the trip itself.
[10:35] SPEAKER_03: The other thing I wanted to ask you just specifically about the luxury else is the culinary offerings.
[10:39] SPEAKER_03: One of the things that we definitely see as an overall trend, and obviously that is uh very much the theme of this podcast that we have been running now for three years, and one of the things that the conference is is a big focus on culinary, another thing that we see like luxury and culinary.
[10:53] SPEAKER_03: Tell us a little bit about how the cult how important the culinary experience is for a luxury rail trip.
[10:59] SPEAKER_03: Because I I have to assume that that's one of the key reasons that people want to take the is the quality of the cabin, the itineraries for sure, uh, which we'll come to in a moment.
[11:07] SPEAKER_03: But just in terms of the culinary offerings, what are sort of the expectations of a luxury rail uh dining experience?
[11:13] SPEAKER_00: I think it's it's a huge point, absolutely.
[11:15] SPEAKER_00: I think every luxury train experience somewhere else where I'm just always in awe of what these chefs can create in such confined spaces.
[11:23] SPEAKER_00: It's just the actual just the the the the the imagin the imagination but also the skill and dexterity to do it in on half a train carriage.
[11:32] SPEAKER_00: You know, it's amazing, it really is.
[11:34] SPEAKER_00: And I think it's obviously again it depends on the the departure.
[11:37] SPEAKER_00: Take the Maharaja Express in India, for example.
[11:41] SPEAKER_00: On board the train there, you're getting a true taste of Indian cuisine that you can't get anywhere else, for example, and you're guaranteed the very best by the very best chefs in India.
[11:50] unknown: Yeah.
[11:51] SPEAKER_02: Can I to add to that, Dan, and what Gareth said, you know, it's it's the dining space is part of the curated experience on board of these luxury chains, you know, and they're getting some of the best chefs in the world, like Andrea Chan for the Eastern Express.
[12:08] SPEAKER_02: And you know, they're using the the best ingredients, local source resources is and turning art to uh a masterpiece that we can all enjoy.
[12:20] SPEAKER_02: And that's part of the memories that they'll take kick back.
[12:24] SPEAKER_02: Um, and it's when I traveled on these luxury trains, I look forward to the dining experience.
[12:30] SPEAKER_02: Not just the array of the china and the glassware, but each dish tells us a story of the locations and the das stationations we get to visit.
[12:41] SPEAKER_02: And I love that they also pair a local glass of you know, of wine or or a beverage that's from the region that pairs so well with the palette that you're trying.
[12:56] SPEAKER_02: And then also, too, my last point is they uh, you know, if they have any type of type of diet restrictions, uh, they do a very good job to offer a solution to make the experience on board.
[13:10] SPEAKER_02: So I I love that.
[13:11] SPEAKER_03: Yeah, the one thing I was actually gonna ask you, uh Tyler, on this topic is that, you know, when we think about a luxury guest experience, uh obviously the key aspect is the cabins and suites themselves.
[13:23] SPEAKER_03: So obviously just knowing that they're gonna meet modern luxury expectations, which uh I'm keen to get your take on, given that obviously it does vary between the different uh uh routes and itineraries that are offered.
[13:34] SPEAKER_03: Um, but that's something that's special about each of the different train journeys.
[13:37] SPEAKER_03: And you have this combination of you know epic cabins with you know stunning scenery.
[13:43] SPEAKER_03: But one of the things that's unique about railbookers is the off-train excursions.
[13:47] SPEAKER_03: Uh and I was keen to know how important that is for a luxury traveler.
[13:52] SPEAKER_03: When you know they want a great place to stay, they want to be able to have great meals, and they want to be well taken care of.
[13:58] SPEAKER_03: But when you actually are planning the excursions for luxury travelers, how do those differ from the classic experiences or do they?
[14:06] SPEAKER_02: First of all, they're very essential.
[14:08] SPEAKER_02: I think the off-train excursions are part of the elevated experience.
[14:16] SPEAKER_02: As soon as a guest disembark from the train, there's usually a small group or even a private experience, depending on the luxury extra train you're going.
[14:25] SPEAKER_02: And and they'll take them to something or somewhere that they've never imagined.
[14:31] SPEAKER_02: So I'll give you a perfect experience, sorry, perfect experience from my own journeys traveling on board Robus Rail with Gareth, and uh, we were able to disembark from the train, and there was a safari experience that took us into Hwangi National Park, one of the largest national parks in Africa.
[14:51] SPEAKER_02: And getting the chance to see the big five, we saw the lions, the uh elephants, giraffes, I mean, so much wildlife.
[15:00] SPEAKER_02: We were at one with nature.
[15:03] SPEAKER_02: And what I love, you know, about some of the luxury off-train excursions compared to a classic off-train excursion is that it's the elevated luxury is throughout the off-train excursions.
[15:17] SPEAKER_02: So if there's something that you know a guest wants to do uh or they are want to take a little bit of a side track, no worries.
[15:26] SPEAKER_02: They can be able to tailor that.
[15:28] SPEAKER_02: Perfect example when we were at Montapos National Park, some of the guests didn't want to visit uh Cecil Rhodes' grave, they wanted to actually go see the cliff paintings uh from the natives, and they were able to make that happen.
[15:43] SPEAKER_02: So it's nice to see that it's not just one thing in done, it's elevated throughout.
[15:50] SPEAKER_03: Right.
[15:51] SPEAKER_03: And one of the things that luxury travelers, we certainly all know about luxury travelers, they want things to be personalized.
[15:56] SPEAKER_03: They want to make sure if it's a you know, if a couple's trip or a multi-generational trip or a family trip, you know, those family and multi-generational have been big drivers of luxury, which is why I mentioned those two traveler profiles in particular.
[16:08] SPEAKER_03: And since most of our listeners are travel advisors, they work at travel agencies and try to wrap their head around selling luxury rail, clearly there's a you know, there's a um a compelling uh commission incentive for travel advisors given the premium nature of the product.
[16:24] SPEAKER_03: But in terms of the guest experience, this is why I want to um uh finish on this this topic is actually understanding what are the small details that will actually truly define a five-star rail experience.
[16:35] SPEAKER_03: And the reason I'm keen to understand that, and and Gareth, given your product development role, I'm keen to get your take on this because when we've had CEOs on our podcast like Jonathan Raggitt from Red Carnation Hotels, he would tell we had him as part of our luxury hotel series, and he would talk to us about uh tiny noticeable touches, TNTs, as they refer to them, that they are very focused on with their team to be able to do those things that will keep a luxury traveler delighted and coming back.
[17:02] SPEAKER_03: And uh when you think about a brand like Insight Vacations, which I know Frank knows well, and a lot of us have great experience on uh the tour operator side, one of the things that Insight's known for is their flourishes.
[17:13] SPEAKER_03: Now, customers don't need to know about the flourishes or um, they just get to experience them, but it's all kind of built into the itinerary that we're gonna make sure that these little indulgences uh are something that's just gonna be built into the itinerary.
[17:26] SPEAKER_03: How does that apply when it comes to a five-star rail experience?
[17:30] SPEAKER_03: How do you what what are some of those small details?
[17:32] SPEAKER_03: And how do you ensure consistency across the entire journey from boarding till their final stop?
[17:38] SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah, it's a great question.
[17:39] SPEAKER_00: I think, again, I think you've got to see these trains as very, you know, it's a five-star hotel experience foot on rail.
[17:46] SPEAKER_00: It really is.
[17:46] SPEAKER_00: These the more we're seeing more luxury trains come on the market, more newer trains built, and the cabins are getting bigger and bigger and bigger, you know?
[17:54] SPEAKER_00: Gone are the days of having to stay in a bunk bed and shared toilets down the alleyway.
[17:58] SPEAKER_00: Everyone's ensuite, you've got air conditioning, you've got luxury bedding.
[18:02] SPEAKER_00: The staff make it such a special experience as well.
[18:05] SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think we've got to look at it as black and white.
[18:08] SPEAKER_00: A train is uh a train could be large, but it's fairly still cons confined space compared to a building.
[18:14] SPEAKER_00: So you're gonna be seeing staff on a regular basis, and they make it.
[18:17] SPEAKER_00: They make the experience, really.
[18:19] SPEAKER_00: You know, they're the ones who are remember your favourite cocktail, they're the ones who are turning down the bed every night and making the bed.
[18:25] SPEAKER_00: They're the ones who align your shirt for you if you wish.
[18:28] SPEAKER_00: They're the ones who'll say remember your favourite cocktail.
[18:31] SPEAKER_00: They're the ones we play on the piano before the last person leaves the bar, you know.
[18:35] SPEAKER_00: Um it is that level of service on board that makes it key.
[18:39] SPEAKER_00: Also, railbookers, I mean, as we have such great partnerships with all these rail operators as well.
[18:43] SPEAKER_00: We do have hidden little secret gifts for our clients once they're on board, the odd one or two here as well.
[18:49] SPEAKER_00: Always just said, looking for that special touch uh to personalize each trip.
[18:54] SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
[18:54] SPEAKER_03: Yeah, definitely.
[18:55] SPEAKER_03: And I guess that's where when we think about the customer profile, and given that Tyler is on the road, you know, you you're based in a pretty beautiful place in the world, too.
[19:03] SPEAKER_03: If people don't actually know much about uh Idaho, um, especially the town that you're based in, the scenery is stunningly beautiful.
[19:10] SPEAKER_03: I have friends living the air, and Idaho is kind of this uh extremely beautiful state within America.
[19:15] SPEAKER_03: So you're obviously surrounded by some pretty epic beauty.
[19:17] SPEAKER_03: I just wanted to highlight that for all of our global listeners who will now be trying to find out where exactly where you are on the map.
[19:23] SPEAKER_03: And but what I was gonna ask you, Tyler, is that you're traveling a lot for work, clearly.
[19:29] SPEAKER_03: You're meeting with a lot of guest uh travel advisors in your sales capacity.
[19:33] SPEAKER_03: And one of the things that's unique about your role is that you're speaking to the guests and you can start to get a sense of how the luxury rail traveler is evolving, like what is the actual profile of a luxury traveler?
[19:45] SPEAKER_03: And I'm keen to ask you that because many travel advisors listening to this, someone's gonna come uh reach out to their travel agency looking for recommendations and to kind of know when to suggest a luxury rail trip.
[19:56] SPEAKER_03: Now, some people obviously come in knowing that they want to do a Rocky Mountaineer, for example, and they want to book that and then but they can discover actually Rail Bookers offers all these itineraries with all these different train journeys.
[20:07] SPEAKER_03: But tell us a little bit about the luxury rail traveler.
[20:10] SPEAKER_03: Tell us a little bit more about who they are, where you're seeing the growth of uh this you know specific profile for uh luxury rail travel.
[20:20] SPEAKER_03: Um, and just uh give us a bit more of a of a definition or a view of what that profile looks like.
[20:26] SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's a good great question, Dan.
[20:28] SPEAKER_02: I would say that the luxury traveler isn't just looking about you know uh the transportation or getting from point to point B point B.
[20:38] SPEAKER_02: It's about the experience.
[20:39] SPEAKER_02: They are looking for something that is gonna the aw and the wow, but something that resonates with them, something that is gonna offer them incredible scenery, immersed in themselves in the culture.
[20:55] SPEAKER_02: Uh you know, I always look at comparing some of the experiences that are out there, like a yacht experience or you know, a a private, uh guided experience.
[21:10] SPEAKER_02: And many guests want that similar, intimate, uh awe-inspiring, that the immersive way of travel, and they're they're popping up all around us, and that's where luxury travel on board these luxury trainings is able to accommodate those types of guests.
[21:38] SPEAKER_02: And I always start with this is are you a person who is looking for an elevated experience?
[21:47] SPEAKER_02: Are you a person who um you know enjoys history, wants something more intimate?
[21:54] SPEAKER_02: Are you looking for um something that's a little off the bean path?
[21:59] SPEAKER_02: It even seems They're sell celebrating a special occasion like an anniversary, a honeymoon, or maybe it's something complete different.
[22:07] SPEAKER_02: Let's say the kids are out of the house and they want to just get back out there and explore and do something that they've always dreamed about, or even seen on uh social media or on a on a video, and that's where it starts.
[22:24] SPEAKER_02: But what we are seeing is this exceptional wave of guests who want to experience some of these luxury trains.
[22:34] SPEAKER_02: And I'll even say one last thing on you mentioned multi-generational.
[22:38] SPEAKER_02: Um, believe it or not, I'm actually doing a trip next year with my family, where it's my kids, my wife, and I, and we're taking my in-laws who have never done a luxury train, and we're doing the Venice and Blue Express.
[22:54] SPEAKER_02: And we're so excited to share a little bit of that passion and a little bit of that high-touch luxury that they've never experienced before in their entire life.
[23:07] SPEAKER_02: Uh, so it's gonna be really cool to experience that.
[23:10] SPEAKER_03: Well, you point out something really interesting there.
[23:12] SPEAKER_03: So we have this you know multi-generational travel trend that is very clear, and especially given the you know the uh generational wealth transfer that's about to take place over the next you know 10 to 20 years, and you've got a lot of retirees, and half have retired the uh the baby boomers, half of them have retired, half of them will retire in the next five years, and they have the money to take these kind of trips, but they want to take their kids and their grandkids.
[23:33] SPEAKER_03: So the multi-generational, you're seeing it on river cruises for sure, with itineraries that are built for multi-generational travel.
[23:39] SPEAKER_03: And it specifically speaks to the luxury end of the market because those wealthy grandparents, they want to have a luxurious travel experience and they're taking everyone else along for the journey.
[23:50] SPEAKER_03: It's not necessarily the trip that the kids or the grandkids would uh choose first, but obviously they're delighted to be on a luxurious trip.
[23:56] SPEAKER_03: And so you pointed out a couple interesting things there that I just wanted to uh underscore and go and then also go back to you on, which is uh whenever we're marketing travel, one of the things we're trying to figure out is you know who we're talking to and what stage they're at and why would they consider this trip.
[24:10] SPEAKER_03: And you mentioned milestone events, uh like an anniversary, and obviously sometimes we call them milestone events or we can call them celebration travel.
[24:18] SPEAKER_03: When we look at places like Africa and why people go on safari, it's overwhelmingly anniversaries, pairments, or 50th birthdays.
[24:26] SPEAKER_03: And if you go on a trip, for those of you who have done this and have met a fellow guest, you'll realize they pretty much fit into most of those criteria.
[24:33] SPEAKER_03: How does that relate to luxury rail travel?
[24:35] SPEAKER_03: And I guess my specific question is how many of the people that are taking their luxury rail trip are going for a milestone event, uh, like an anniversary or a specific uh cause of celebration?
[24:47] SPEAKER_03: And how many people are actually just going to take luxury rail trips because they now just love this category and it's their preferred style of travel?
[24:54] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I would say from the tr travelers that we've vetted, most of them are celebrating a special occasion, either being retirement, like you mentioned, or a s uh a special occasion like an anniversary, a birthday, honeymoon.
[25:08] SPEAKER_02: And by the way, we're seeing a trend to even newer, younger travelers who want to that little touch of luxury.
[25:16] SPEAKER_02: I know you mentioned the concept of like, hey, why are they wanting to go towards a luxury train?
[25:24] SPEAKER_02: I think it's because of it not being a large vessel or a large um bus experience.
[25:33] SPEAKER_02: It's it's something more intimate, where most of these trains have less than 30 cabins and suites on the train.
[25:40] SPEAKER_02: So they want something a little bit more less crowded, a little bit more intimate, and a little bit more of that setting that they can be able to unplug and focus on what's around them, being able to talk to others and connect.
[25:57] SPEAKER_02: I think that's what we're missing is is the connection with either their loved ones or with their family or even uh the destination that they're visiting.
[26:07] SPEAKER_00: I think if I may, Dan, as well, to jump in.
[26:09] SPEAKER_00: I think you touched on something which we've seen a lot of as well, is you'll get a call from somebody saying, I did the Rocky Mountaineer a few years ago and I really enjoyed it, but I want to take it a step further and perhaps go on another luxury town that asleep on the train, for example.
[26:22] SPEAKER_00: You do find more and more people who will take one and then they'll want to take another one and add to the bucket.
[26:26] SPEAKER_00: You know, they would want to pin badge from the next one, the next one, the next one, for example.
[26:30] SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I agree.
[26:31] SPEAKER_03: One of the things I wanted to ask you about there is repeat rates for rail travel.
[26:35] SPEAKER_03: I know it's really high for ocean crews in particular.
[26:38] SPEAKER_03: They do a very effective job of trying to encourage people uh to book even on the ship for their next trip.
[26:43] SPEAKER_03: And they're pretty sophisticated in their marketing because they're they know that the lifetime value of a customer is so high if they can hook them into their specific style of uh ocean cruises or even river cruises for that matter as well.
[26:57] SPEAKER_03: How does that work with luxury rail and specifically for rail bookers?
[27:01] SPEAKER_03: Do you see a high repeat rate for people who book luxury trips?
[27:05] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we do, absolutely.
[27:06] SPEAKER_00: It's more and more and more.
[27:07] SPEAKER_00: I've said people mentioning perhaps they've taken one, now they want to try sleeping on a train, now they want to try sleeping for more than one night on a train, for example.
[27:14] SPEAKER_00: Something which over the past few years we've found really, really successful as well, which we've missed out this year, was we've always uh launched a trip called Around the World by Luxury Train, where it's actually combining seven or eight luxury trains around the world, which has seen huge pickup in terms of people wanting to see the differences between the different trains, but also seeing it as these things as an attractive way of seeing destinations, not just the train itself, but experiencing the destination through that train.
[27:39] SPEAKER_00: Um yeah.
[27:40] SPEAKER_02: Perfect example is where we see people doing the Belmont Royal Scotsman, and they do that train again, again, because they maybe did a two-nighter now, they want to do a seven-nighter experience.
[27:50] SPEAKER_02: Or, you know, they've done Robos Rail and they're like, oh my gosh, I loved the trip to Victoria Falls, and I want to go do Dara Salaam.
[27:58] SPEAKER_02: So to Gareth's point, it's not sometimes just going to another luxury train, but even repeating the same luxury train, and they want to do an extended experience.
[28:07] SPEAKER_03: Well, and one of the things that's unique about the luxury travel market is uh the high rate that they utilize travel advisors.
[28:14] SPEAKER_03: Now, you know, clearly have wealthy travelers that may end up booking direct, but typically they're getting a recommendation from their travel advisor.
[28:22] SPEAKER_03: They've got a great established relationship, and especially when it's milestone, there's a recommendation coming from the travel advisor as to what they should do for the year ahead.
[28:30] SPEAKER_03: Rail travel is something that clearly more and more travel advisors are recommending.
[28:34] SPEAKER_03: One of the things I was actually keen to hear from you both as we think about the world of luxury rail travel is how important travel advisors are in the mix and what ultimately makes it a compelling sell for travel advisors.
[28:45] SPEAKER_03: I, of course, I've mentioned commissions.
[28:47] SPEAKER_03: That is clearly a big part of our industry and our business.
[28:51] SPEAKER_03: And so that is one factor.
[28:53] SPEAKER_03: But oftentimes it is just one consideration.
[28:56] SPEAKER_03: Ultimately, they are looking for a company that they can recommend confidently, where they know their customers are going to have an amazing experience, and also the likelihood that they're going to take another trip when they come back.
[29:09] SPEAKER_03: They want to take another railbooker's trip to another destination or another uh train itinerary.
[29:15] SPEAKER_03: Tell us a little bit about the advisor category and how important and relevant they are for luxury rail.
[29:21] SPEAKER_03: They're absolutely vital.
[29:22] SPEAKER_02: I would say that a good portion of our market is travel advisors, and we heavily depend on their uh their expertise, but as well as their clientele that our interest in luxury travel.
[29:44] SPEAKER_02: And believe it or not, most of their luxury travelers are the right fit for our luxury vacations.
[29:52] SPEAKER_02: And believe it or not, we're also seeing many of those guests who are normally luxury cruise travelers are now being offered an alternative option saying, Hey, I've done this luxury cruise.
[30:06] SPEAKER_02: What else is out there?
[30:08] SPEAKER_02: And their travel advisor is like, hey, have you thought about a luxury train experience?
[30:12] SPEAKER_02: So they're also helping us sell the product as well.
[30:16] SPEAKER_02: But what I love is when they speak with our luxury experts, they can take advantage of our compliment three sell three call three three-way call service, which our rail experts can help sell the experience along with the advisor to the customer.
[30:34] SPEAKER_02: And it's a huge win-win for both the customer and the trial advisor.
[30:39] SPEAKER_02: So that way we can be able to address any questions, concerns that the clients may have in real time.
[30:45] SPEAKER_02: So that way they're more comfortable and confident with the decision by saying, Yeah, you know, bear uh Mary Beth, I want to do this trip that, you know, uh one of our uh rail experts mentioned.
[30:58] SPEAKER_02: Let's do it.
[30:59] SPEAKER_02: And they're more excited, and then they come back because they had an immemorable experience the first time that they want to do another luxury train the second time.
[31:08] SPEAKER_03: Well, something I'm keen to explore along those lines, and I'm I'm gonna bring this up when I speak to Frank next week, is how you position luxury rail, especially for a customer who has not traveled uh rail before.
[31:20] SPEAKER_03: Like you and so when someone is going into a travel advisor, I always think back to all of you know the there's always a few USPs or unique selling propositions you're trying to focus on.
[31:31] SPEAKER_03: You know, crews will often use the unpack once as an example of like why you should consider cruising.
[31:36] SPEAKER_03: A lot of people have hesitations about cruising because they're not sure how they're gonna feel on the water.
[31:40] SPEAKER_03: It's literally the biggest obstacle for cruise growth is uh people who haven't cruised before that actually just are not are hesitant uh to go on the water, and some of them for the right reasons, but some of them may not have an issue at all.
[31:53] SPEAKER_03: So it's one of the things they have to overcome.
[31:54] SPEAKER_03: But when someone is considering a luxury rail experience, what are some of the things that you would highlight for someone who has not taken one of these trips before?
[32:03] SPEAKER_03: And specifically when travel advisors that are, you know, on those three-way calls or when travel advisors are advocating or encouraging for their guests to take a luxury rail, what are some of the things that you specifically call out about this style of travel and why you should take a luxury rail trip versus other luxury trip experiences?
[32:21] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's a good one.
[32:22] SPEAKER_00: It's it's again, it kind of depends on the train, I think, really.
[32:25] SPEAKER_00: I think one thing to note is being on a luxury train.
[32:28] SPEAKER_00: If you're on a train that's a multi-night departure, uh multi-night trip, for example, every stop you make, people want to know who's on the train.
[32:35] SPEAKER_00: People want to know who you are.
[32:37] SPEAKER_00: You are the star of the show, you know?
[32:39] SPEAKER_00: It really is that case.
[32:40] SPEAKER_00: I think it's the nature of the journey as well.
[32:42] SPEAKER_00: There's still an element of romanticism about travelling by train, about sleeping on a train, about having dressing up for dinner, that sort of experience as well.
[32:50] SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, it really alleviates it kind of attracts itself well to that milestone experience, of course.
[32:57] SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, it's just the uniqueness, I think, as well.
[33:00] SPEAKER_00: I really do.
[33:01] SPEAKER_00: Um we're so used to sort of the train goes from A to B.
[33:04] SPEAKER_00: That's what it does.
[33:04] SPEAKER_00: But to actually get on there, have an amazing gastronomic experience, see some exclusive sites, have some exclusive experiences, and get off at the other end in a new country, it's no other way to do it, you know?
[33:17] SPEAKER_03: And is there a specific itinerary, Gareth, that you would point to?
[33:20] SPEAKER_03: I know we've mentioned a few, when someone's considering it for the first time and you would point them in the direction of have a look at this specific itinerary.
[33:26] SPEAKER_03: I know this is where it's a combination of so many things, because the one thing that's really unique about rail travel overall is that it's going to take you to places that are likely inaccessible through other forms of transport.
[33:38] SPEAKER_03: You know, there's a beauty to river cruising by going to these smaller towns, um, but you're still limited to the rivers.
[33:44] SPEAKER_03: Uh, train journeys, obviously, you can start in one city and and end up in another.
[33:49] SPEAKER_03: And you and so there's a lot you can see along the way, but you can see it from a unique perspective from the train and where these tracks have been built over time.
[33:57] SPEAKER_03: And so there's something that you can't get elsewhere, as far as I'm concerned, from a train experience.
[34:02] SPEAKER_03: And also, I just I genuinely love the experience of being on a train.
[34:06] SPEAKER_03: Like I find it much more soothing and relaxing compared to being on a plane or on a coach, for example.
[34:11] SPEAKER_03: So those are a couple things that stand out to me as to why I would be interested, or myself, my wife, or our family in taking a uh a luxury rail trip.
[34:19] SPEAKER_03: I'm actually very keen to do a trip like this with my mom uh in the near future, and uh because she loves uh uh rail travel, and I thought this is actually the perfect way for us to do this.
[34:29] SPEAKER_03: It's something that's a bit more luxurious and it'll be the right pace for her, and it would be a you know a really special experience for us to have gone on one of those journeys.
[34:37] SPEAKER_03: So if you were to point people like me and other of our listeners towards one or two luxury itineraries to consider, what would those be?
[34:44] SPEAKER_00: Oh, it's a good question.
[34:46] SPEAKER_00: Good question.
[34:46] SPEAKER_00: I think I think personally, I think we look at we look at routes.
[34:49] SPEAKER_00: I think ideally, again, if money is no object, Paris to Istanbul, it's the classic European route.
[34:56] SPEAKER_00: You know, you've got two different operators who run the train, who run that route, slightly different routes.
[35:01] SPEAKER_00: Uh Belmont, for example, you stay in a hotel for two of the nights, you're not on the train the whole time.
[35:06] SPEAKER_00: Golden Eagle, you're on the train the whole time for the five nights, but you see some amazing things along the way.
[35:11] SPEAKER_00: And you see the change in Europe from the modern West to the to Istanbul, you know, the heart of Eastern Europe, the heart of the on the border with Asia as well, two different continents.
[35:20] SPEAKER_00: I think part of it is not just the experiences, but the places that it travels through as well.
[35:26] SPEAKER_00: Um if you don't have five nights, as the journey is for both trips as well, then perhaps I've referred to it before, the the excellence class on the Glacier Express, or Glacier Express, forgive me, is it's it's it's fantastic.
[35:38] SPEAKER_00: It really is.
[35:38] SPEAKER_00: It's eight hours on board, there's about 30 seats in the carriage, you have the biggest windows in the whole train, you've got a six-core scourmet meal on board with matching drinks as well.
[35:48] SPEAKER_00: There's no better way to see that amazing scenery than in those seats.
[35:52] SPEAKER_00: And this is the only train that runs that full route as well.
[35:55] SPEAKER_00: There's no other way to do it.
[35:56] SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
[35:57] SPEAKER_02: Tyler, what would be yours?
[35:59] SPEAKER_02: I would say it's asking the right question first is figure out where have you maybe I've been, or maybe that you want to go back to visit, and then figure out what are some of your interests.
[36:12] SPEAKER_02: So are you a person like so active and explorer?
[36:16] SPEAKER_02: Are you a person that is interested in in the uh gastronomic uh cuisine?
[36:23] SPEAKER_02: Are you a person that wants to sit back and relax and watch the world go by?
[36:29] SPEAKER_02: So it's just figuring out who you are as a traveler, and then start figuring out, okay, well, based on this, based on what you share with me, I can recommend this sort of alternative option.
[36:45] SPEAKER_02: So, like for example, like Gareth just mentioned the two routes from Paris to Istanbul, there are those two luxury trains, but they're unique in their own right.
[36:55] SPEAKER_02: So, for example, the Venice Saint Pelori Express is a is a high five-star experience where you are dressed to the nines, you know, you're wearing um, you know, black tie, you know, full gowns uh for dinner, whereas the Golden Eagle Danube Express is a little bit more of a relaxed environment.
[37:20] SPEAKER_02: It's not as you know, dress to the nines, if you only if you want to, but it's a little bit uh more of that casual luxury, it's just figuring out who you are and what option makes the right sense for you.
[37:37] SPEAKER_03: Got it.
[37:37] SPEAKER_03: And so one of the things that you both have pointed to when looking at a luxury traveler is that they are already familiar with other styles of luxury travel, and we've talked about river crews.
[37:48] SPEAKER_03: Uh but the one thing I certainly saw from my time overseeing the the marketing and digital activity, the travel corporation, which many of our listeners are familiar with, and interestingly how uh Frank and I have uh got to know each other, and all this industry ultimately is we all know is is incredibly small.
[38:04] SPEAKER_03: But one of the things that was part of my role that was interesting and relevant to this is that I was very much focused on this concept of the 10-year wallet.
[38:11] SPEAKER_03: And so, how do you make sure that you retain a customer over the course of 10 years and get them to continue to travel within our 40 brands?
[38:17] SPEAKER_03: So one year it could be an African safari, next year it could be a river cruise, then it might be a coach tour.
[38:22] SPEAKER_03: And so the key was trying to keep them within the family of brands.
[38:26] SPEAKER_03: But what was really interesting about that work is that the luxury traveler really focused on three brands, like Uniworld, Luxury Gold, which was Insight's really high-end product, Red Carnation, those hotels, and then Africans travel as well.
[38:39] SPEAKER_03: And so those luxury travelers are really quite unique.
[38:43] SPEAKER_03: And so uh they're they don't they don't transfer to other types of products, they stay within that luxury portfolio, but they often go through these kind of cyclical phases where they've all done a river cruise because they were they were told from all of their other friends at the country club or in their neighborhood that uh they need to.
[38:59] SPEAKER_03: And the one thing always stands out to me is the number of like Australians or uh um people from the UK as well.
[39:05] SPEAKER_03: I was gonna call you a Brit, Gareth, but I'll uh just say people from the UK.
[39:09] SPEAKER_01: That'll do it.
[39:11] SPEAKER_03: They'll do the Rocky Mountaineer and then they'll do an Alaskan cruise.
[39:15] SPEAKER_03: It's like you know, the standard two uh uh trips combined, and the it's all the rage that so what I wanted to ask you guys is when it comes to what types of trips they've done before, obviously Luxury River Cruise is one good example, but where are you seeing the growth coming from?
[39:31] SPEAKER_03: Are you seeing that these are people that uh tend to like high-end accommodation?
[39:36] SPEAKER_03: Where are you seeing the growth?
[39:37] SPEAKER_03: And what do you think is actually driving that demand of the rise of luxury rail?
[39:42] SPEAKER_00: That's a good one.
[39:43] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
[39:43] SPEAKER_00: I think it's those people who are used to uh five-star accommodation uh in some ways.
[39:49] SPEAKER_00: I also think it's sort of attracting not just the luxury market as well.
[39:53] SPEAKER_00: You know, those guys who aren't used to the luxury sphere.
[39:56] SPEAKER_00: They just want to do something unique and different.
[39:58] SPEAKER_00: Um certainly sent hence of the the new uh in terms of experiences, but also a good way of seeing certain countries.
[40:06] SPEAKER_00: I touched on the Maharaja Express, for example.
[40:09] SPEAKER_00: It's a great safe way of seeing what's often seen as a challenging country.
[40:13] SPEAKER_00: Um, and you get the full Indian experiences.
[40:16] SPEAKER_00: You've got Indian dance, one experience, an ancient temple, one experience of VIP early access to the Taj Mahal the next day.
[40:22] SPEAKER_00: You know, you're really all-encompassing for that country's experience.
[40:25] SPEAKER_00: Um the Andean Explorer, for example, in Peru.
[40:28] SPEAKER_00: It's a five-star way of seeing the whole country.
[40:31] SPEAKER_00: So it's not just you're seeing one place, you're actually seeing the country and getting the full country experience from these things.
[40:37] SPEAKER_03: Well, one thing I just want to ask you along those lines is the emotional and experiential appeal of this style of travel, because this is the thing about luxury today.
[40:45] SPEAKER_03: And when we started this conversation about all the different types of luxury experiences, sometimes luxury is access, sometimes it is giving people uh experiences that they wouldn't get elsewhere, and that's access to you know some of these local communities they may be better connected to, or being able to take them to places that you know only rail journeys can to be able to stay in these uh beautiful properties, be able to have these like uh fine dinners, that type of thing.
[41:10] SPEAKER_03: So often it's more about how someone feels than what the trip actually includes.
[41:15] SPEAKER_03: I mean, when people are making their decision, they're doing the rational mind at first of like, you know, how much it costs, the number of inclusions and the overall itinerary.
[41:23] SPEAKER_03: But ultimately it's the emotional response that these travelers are looking for.
[41:27] SPEAKER_03: And this year, a big focus for us has been highlighting the transformative uh style of travel, you know, people coming back feeling changed, but ultimately people coming back feeling uh that there was great value for money and they had a really fantastic holiday and they come back, you know, feeling better for having had that trip and already looking forward to the next one.
[41:44] SPEAKER_03: So I I'm keen to know about what you when you look, think about the emotional response you're looking for travelers to have from these trips and how when people are looking for experiences over things, how does rail deliver on that?
[41:56] SPEAKER_00: I think it's great.
[41:57] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean again, it's gonna differ from train to train, but it's that storytelling for certain journeys as well.
[42:02] SPEAKER_00: Uh, we touched on the the SOE, Paris to um Istanbul.
[42:06] SPEAKER_00: You're seeing Europe change each day.
[42:09] SPEAKER_00: You know, you're seeing the whole breadth of Europe.
[42:11] SPEAKER_00: The Silk Road of Belmont, um Royal Golden Eagle as well.
[42:15] SPEAKER_00: Of course, it's the ancient kind of trade route from millennia ago.
[42:19] SPEAKER_00: Um and there's no real way of doing it unless you're looking at private flights and things like that.
[42:23] SPEAKER_00: And also on board, you're gonna be learning a hell of a lot because you're gonna have professors giving lectures, etc., and telling the stories you go.
[42:30] SPEAKER_00: It's that level of education about certain destinations while you're on board.
[42:34] SPEAKER_00: So we come back of learning the place, but also having a very unique memories from these things.
[42:40] SPEAKER_03: And Tyler, I'm keen to get your take on where luxury travel is headed for rail, because you know, we've certainly seen a dramatic increase in overall luxury cruises, especially expedition cruises.
[42:51] SPEAKER_03: We haven't mentioned those yet, but that's obviously been a uh a very important category of growth given that people are looking to go to more immersive uh destinations and to be able to have these experiences, you know, visiting local communities.
[43:06] SPEAKER_03: And so the expedition trip, even though they may not necessarily have the same luxurious features, uh, but it is a much higher end experience and it's often more expensive just given the cost of these ships and where they go.
[43:19] SPEAKER_03: Um so then clearly you need to make sure that you serve some fine meals and everything that goes along with it to pay to suit their expectations.
[43:26] SPEAKER_03: But where when you look at the luxury space, how do you think rail compares?
[43:31] SPEAKER_03: And what do you think is ultimately kind of unique about rail?
[43:34] SPEAKER_03: And I guess where I'm going with this is because I would rather be on a train than I would be on the water.
[43:39] SPEAKER_03: So that's always what what it comes back to for me.
[43:42] SPEAKER_03: Uh yeah, t tell us a little bit more about what your uh how you see it in the marketplace, given that you know you are doing sales and you're meeting with a advisors that are promoting different types of luxury experiences.
[43:53] SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think the luxury rail market is only going up because you know there is a demand.
[44:00] SPEAKER_02: People want you know the next best thing.
[44:03] SPEAKER_02: And I think they've done so many different river and ocean cruises, and we can't build any more rivers.
[44:11] SPEAKER_02: Uh there's only so much you can see from the water to your point that they're like, okay, you know, what else is out there?
[44:20] SPEAKER_02: And our marketing tactic is why not do a luxury land cruise via luxury train.
[44:29] SPEAKER_02: And you know, many of these luxury rail operators are building better and grander suites like Belmont's than the Semblorian Express.
[44:39] SPEAKER_02: They have this full length carriage having a private library, private ensuite, uh, you know, a an Oculus that faces up to the stars.
[44:52] SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's something that's never heard of.
[44:55] SPEAKER_02: There's even now luxury trains coming out in other um, you know, off-the-beam path destinations like Egypt, even like what Gareth mentioned, Silk Road.
[45:08] SPEAKER_02: People want to explore and really feel immersed in the destinations and learn about the places they're seeing via that storytelling that Gareth mentioned.
[45:22] SPEAKER_02: So I only see them going up from here.
[45:24] SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's interesting.
[45:25] SPEAKER_03: That was one of the things that I was keen to ask you both, but also just to highlight to our listeners too.
[45:30] SPEAKER_03: Like when you have a market that is growing so aggressively, like we've seen with river cruising, one of the challenges you run into to your point about, you know, there's only so many rivers, but there's also only so much space on any of those rivers, and those ships often end up getting lined up like eight deep.
[45:43] SPEAKER_03: And when they get to a town, you have to cross six or seven other ships.
[45:46] SPEAKER_03: And sometimes you have people then speaking about the fact that, did you see the chandelier in that place?
[45:51] SPEAKER_03: Did you see this?
[45:52] SPEAKER_03: Like they they've walked through and then they've also realized if they book something more substandard, they've seen they've seen what luxury can look like.
[45:59] SPEAKER_03: So that's uh one of the things that stands out to me about river crews, that people come back and say, you know, the rivers were crowded and they saw these other ships.
[46:08] SPEAKER_03: So that's a completely different experience there.
[46:10] SPEAKER_03: So what stood out to me.
[46:11] SPEAKER_03: Um, but I want to just finish on with a couple last questions for you guys.
[46:14] SPEAKER_03: The one I'm very keen to ask is that you know, as we're talking about luxury travelers and we think about people that are uh coming into this category for the first time, I would think there'd be huge potential for rail bookers where guests are listening to this or speaking to their travel advisor and they are deciding this is the year they're gonna do an epic rail journey.
[46:35] SPEAKER_03: And so I'm uh very excited for railbookers given the number of retirees and number of people that are booking, and despite other factors, I know your business uh has been up substantially the last few years and continues to be up in 2026.
[46:50] SPEAKER_03: And so for first-time travelers that are thinking about taking a luxury rail experience, what are some of the things you would encourage them to factor into their decision making, whether it be the uh uh the destination itself, because clearly there's luxury trips all over the world, and that's one of the things that's kind of almost like you're spoiled for choice.
[47:09] SPEAKER_03: But what are some of the things, Gareth?
[47:11] SPEAKER_03: Again, it'll probably best to start with you on the product side.
[47:14] SPEAKER_03: What are some of the things you would encourage people to be considering when booking their first luxury rail trip?
[47:19] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's uh I'll come up with a very British term first of all, and don't dilly-dally.
[47:25] SPEAKER_00: Uh don't waste too much.
[47:27] SPEAKER_00: Again, these trains are very, very limited in terms of cabin space, you know, and very limited in departure time.
[47:32] SPEAKER_00: So not to put a hurry on things, but try and don't think too long because you might miss out on what you actually want to do.
[47:38] SPEAKER_00: Um and don't worry, again, don't worry.
[47:41] SPEAKER_00: It's you said people might be dreaming of going to a destination like India, for example, but worried about the actual quality and things like that.
[47:49] SPEAKER_00: These luxury trains really are the pinnacle of what's possible by rail, each and every one of them.
[47:54] SPEAKER_00: You're not going to get a substandard experience on any of them.
[47:57] SPEAKER_02: To Gareth's point, uh it similar what we would say in America is uh don't wait, book today.
[48:06] SPEAKER_02: You know, uh there's that famous saying.
[48:08] SPEAKER_02: Um and it's so true.
[48:12] SPEAKER_02: Luxury trains take guests and travel advisors to places that they only dream of.
[48:21] SPEAKER_02: Like like what Garrett mentioned about the next plor, right?
[48:23] SPEAKER_02: Taking them through the Andean Mountains, something that, you know, what other form of transportation can get them there?
[48:31] SPEAKER_02: Or seeing Machu Pichu, or going across, you know, uh, you know, great lengths and seeing the change of scenery each and every day.
[48:43] SPEAKER_02: Um, it's nothing like that in the world.
[48:46] SPEAKER_02: It's really immersive.
[48:48] SPEAKER_03: Cool.
[48:48] SPEAKER_03: And I've got to ask you, Tyler, what's next on your bucket list for rail journeys?
[48:53] SPEAKER_03: What would be actually give us a highlight of one journey you've done that you would highly recommend people to experience, and then where you're planning to go next?
[49:00] SPEAKER_03: So that's a tough but good question, Dan.
[49:04] SPEAKER_02: Uh I would honestly robust rail was one of my favorite train experiences.
[49:10] SPEAKER_02: Uh, you know, seeing, you know, the African safaris and seeing the wildlife, but being able to trans, sorry, be transported back time to this colonial era of travel on board this high-touch luxury train.
[49:29] SPEAKER_02: And the staff do a phenomenal job of making the experience memorable.
[49:34] SPEAKER_02: Something that I will not only cherish, but I cannot wait to go back on.
[49:39] SPEAKER_02: My next plans are the Venison Blaine Express with my entire family next year.
[49:46] SPEAKER_02: 2029, our plan is to do the Eastern Orlando Express.
[49:50] SPEAKER_02: So I love luxury trains.
[49:51] SPEAKER_02: I'm similar to what Gareth was saying before.
[49:53] SPEAKER_02: I keep just checking one off the bucket list that I want to do each and every year.
[49:57] SPEAKER_03: That's awesome.
[49:57] SPEAKER_03: That's great, Tyler.
[49:58] SPEAKER_03: And what about you, Gareth?
[49:59] SPEAKER_03: What's a big highlight of a trip you've done?
[50:01] SPEAKER_03: And what's one of the ones you're looking forward to next?
[50:04] SPEAKER_00: There's a two answers for the best.
[50:06] SPEAKER_00: I always legally obliged to mention the Benina Express because of my my wife on that train a good 20 years ago now.
[50:13] SPEAKER_00: So I'm legally obliged to always mention Benina Express, that question.
[50:16] SPEAKER_00: Um favorite, I've got to say personally, for me, the Maharaja Express was a phenomenal experience.
[50:23] SPEAKER_00: It really was.
[50:24] SPEAKER_00: Just again, just sort of a country such as India, which can be quite demanding in some ways to do it in that sort of style.
[50:30] SPEAKER_00: And the experiences along the way are kind of unforgettable.
[50:33] SPEAKER_00: They really are.
[50:36] SPEAKER_00: What's up next?
[50:37] SPEAKER_00: Next up.
[50:38] SPEAKER_00: Next up, a bit closer to home.
[50:40] SPEAKER_00: I'm going to be taking the Caledonian sleeper.
[50:42] SPEAKER_00: I'm going to be going up to Scotland, which isn't too far away from me, and then taking an overnight train down to London.
[50:47] SPEAKER_00: So something a little closer to home and one thing I've never done before.
[50:50] SPEAKER_00: So there we go.
[50:51] SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's great.
[50:52] SPEAKER_03: That's fantastic.
[50:52] SPEAKER_03: Maybe that's one I should actually focus on, taking my mom on, because I know she wants to go to Scotland.
[50:56] SPEAKER_03: I'll uh I'll reach out, reach out to you for some suggestions afterwards.
[50:59] SPEAKER_03: Uh gentlemen, this has been really fascinating for me.
[51:01] SPEAKER_03: Obviously, I was looking forward to having a conversation with you both about luxury rail, and especially as we had the conversation on scenic and iconic journeys, and then we'll have Frank Marini, the CEO of Railbookers, joining us on next week's episode to talk about the future of Rail.
[51:17] SPEAKER_03: But I'm really excited for you both, just given how much growth potential there is.
[51:21] SPEAKER_03: You're already seeing significant growth, but there's so much new growth for railbookers as you expand into Asia.
[51:27] SPEAKER_03: You know, you have your office there in Singapore.
[51:29] SPEAKER_03: And when you think about the big English language source markets from Australia, New Zealand, and certainly North America, but also the UK and Europe.
[51:37] SPEAKER_03: And given the global nature of the product offering, despite challenging circumstances in one region, people just shift.
[51:43] SPEAKER_03: I think that's one of the things that I find wonderful and reassuring about the travel industry is that people still continue to travel.
[51:48] SPEAKER_03: They just change where they're going to go.
[51:50] SPEAKER_03: And so having a global collection and portfolio is so important.
[51:54] SPEAKER_03: Um, but I'm just keen for you guys to leave us with one last uh uh takeaway.
[51:59] SPEAKER_03: So for people who are thinking about luxury rail, uh, whether it be travelers or travel advisors, what would be one thing that uh, Tyler, you'd want people to take away from our conversation?
[52:09] SPEAKER_02: I would say think of and plan and book a luxury train journey with rail bookers.
[52:16] SPEAKER_02: We can customize, design, and tailor the experience the way you want to experience it.
[52:26] SPEAKER_02: And honestly, luxury trains, when you do one, you'll do more.
[52:30] SPEAKER_02: So thank you, Dan.
[52:32] SPEAKER_03: Thank you, Tyler.
[52:33] SPEAKER_03: And Gareth, last word from you.
[52:35] SPEAKER_03: What would be your the big takeaway you want to leave all the listeners with?
[52:38] SPEAKER_00: Yeah, don't be scared.
[52:39] SPEAKER_00: Don't be scared.
[52:40] SPEAKER_00: I think a lot of the time people are scared because it's seen as a an enclosed space on rail, for example.
[52:45] SPEAKER_00: But no, these things are incredibly special.
[52:47] SPEAKER_00: They're really amazing experiences.
[52:49] SPEAKER_00: So jump in.
[52:50] SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
[52:51] SPEAKER_00: Excellent.
[52:51] SPEAKER_03: Thank you, Gareth.
[52:52] SPEAKER_03: Thank you, Tyler.
[52:53] SPEAKER_03: Really appreciate you both joining us.
[52:54] SPEAKER_03: Looking forward to seeing you at the Railbookers conference later this year.
[52:57] SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Dan.
[52:58] SPEAKER_03: Excellent.
[52:58] SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
[52:59] SPEAKER_03: And thanks so much to our listeners for joining us for this special episode two of our Railbookers series as we talk to Tyler and Gareth about luxury rail travel.
[53:08] SPEAKER_03: Don't forget that next week we will have the CEO, Frank Marini, joining us again.
[53:12] SPEAKER_03: He's been a star of our podcast from last season and our AI summits.
[53:16] SPEAKER_03: We're going to talk to him about technology, company culture.
[53:19] SPEAKER_03: We'll also be highlighting his book that I encourage everyone to read, staying on track.
[53:24] SPEAKER_03: And Frank has become such a great friend and a very well-respected industry colleague.
[53:29] SPEAKER_03: And I look forward to interviewing him next week.
[53:31] SPEAKER_03: But Tyler, Gareth, thanks again for joining us.
[53:34] SPEAKER_03: Thanks to all of our listeners for being a part of this podcast.
[53:36] SPEAKER_03: And don't forget to subscribe on the streaming platform of your choice to be notified when new episodes go live, Spotify or Apple.
[53:42] SPEAKER_03: And we do post clips and highlights on all our social channels, which you can find on Instagram, LinkedIn, and YouTube at Travel Trends Podcast.
[53:49] SPEAKER_03: And for more information about Railbookers, check out railbookers.com.
[53:53] SPEAKER_03: Until next week, save travels.

Shows are listed from Apple Podcasts' charts and directory, and Podcast Index where it is used. Every show and episode belongs to its publisher and plays from the publisher's own feed; this site hosts none of them.