# Gil's Arena ERUPTS Over Ja Morant's Fresh Start, Giannis To Miami, & The Houston Rockets' Ceiling Part 2

An episode of [Gil's Arena](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1689097415), 19 Sep 2026, 1 h 12 min.

Audio: https://podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/pscrb.fm/rss/p/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/895dfae1-64b0-4981-adea-b4b300f0d0f6/ffb454fa-75c4-446d-8fd6-b4c90166340c/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=d110bf8d-fc65-45fb-856f-b4b300f0d117

Gilbert Arenas, Nick Young, Marques Johnson, and Josiah Johnson bring you the best NBA show on the planet! This episode the couch discusses if Portland will win 42 games, Marques Johnson's new book Crenshaw Chronicles, Marques Johnson impression of Isiah Thomas game + more! Presented by Polymarket - the world's largest prediction market. Use code ARENA when you sign up for a $50 bonus with a qualifying deposit of $10. https://app.polymarket.us/S8ac/ARENA 18+ Only. Restrictions and eligibility requirements apply. Not available in all jurisdictions. Trading is risky. 100% loss can occur. See http://polymarket.com/tos for more information. The Polymarket US App serves as an independent software provider and affiliate of Polymarket US and Polymarket Clearing, the CFTC-regulated exchange and clearing organization. Follow Gil's Arena on socials: Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/gilsarena0/ Facebook https://www.facebook.com/GilsArena0 Threads - https://www.threads.com/@gilsarena0 Twitter/X - https://x.com/GilsArenaShow Twitch - https://www.twitch.tv/gilsarenashow TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@gilsarena TimeStamps: 0:00 - Will Portland will win 42 games 06:42 - Marques Johnson's new book Crenshaw Chronicles 22:23 - Clyde Drexler vs T-Mac (Timestamps may vary based on ads) See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:00] Speaker 1: Now let's shift back over to the Pacific Northwest with
[0:03] Speaker 1: Ja and the new look Blazers squad. So the Blazers
[0:07] Speaker 1: 42 and 40. Last season, seventh in the West. Ran
[0:10] Speaker 1: the playoffs for the first time since 2021. Projected win
[0:13] Speaker 1: total this season.
[0:15] Speaker 2: 42 games.
[0:15] Speaker 1: 80% of traders thinking that they will hit that threshold.
[0:19] Speaker 1: I think 70% don't think they will hit that 42
[0:22] Speaker 1: game threshold. So you're good with the Blazers winning at
[0:26] Speaker 1: least 42 games this season. You said 80%? It doesn't
[0:29] Speaker 1: have to add up to 100. Oh, yeah, because I
[0:30] Speaker 1: was tripping.
[0:31] Speaker 2: I'm like, oh.
[0:33] Speaker 3: Yeah, that got me, too.
[0:34] Speaker 2: 80 and 70. These are prediction markets. Okay. Our good
[0:40] Speaker 2: friends at Polymarket. Okay. You've got to.
[0:44] Speaker 1: Really get there. How many wins they had last year?
[0:48] Speaker 1: 42 and 40 last year. 42 wins is their projected
[0:50] Speaker 1: total this season.
[0:51] Speaker 2: I'm trying to figure out how many teams in the West,
[0:53] Speaker 2: because this is.
[0:55] Speaker 4: We got to put some losers. Okay, New Orleans is
[0:59] Speaker 4: going to be a loser. Dallas is going to be
[1:01] Speaker 4: a loser.
[1:02] Speaker 2: Utah. Clippers is going to be a loser. Utah. Utah. Utah. Utah. Utah.
[1:13] Speaker 2: Utah is not going to be a loser. Dallas.
[1:15] Speaker 1: They've been playing. They're still losing, though. Blazers can't get
[1:18] Speaker 1: to 42. They got a job. Demetrius Jamel Morant. Name
[1:22] Speaker 1: coming back.
[1:23] Speaker 2: Golden State. Lakers. It's going to be rough on Phoenix. Sacramento. Portland, 42.
[1:36] Speaker 2: I think they can get 42. I mean, you know,
[1:39] Speaker 2: West usually beats on the East. But not this year, though.
[1:43] Speaker 2: The East is strong as well. What?
[1:46] Speaker 1: Not a lot of riffraff in the league. No teams
[1:48] Speaker 1: you just named is... You said SAC?
[1:52] Speaker 2: SAC? Warriors is not the same right now. I know.
[1:55] Speaker 2: So they're going to be worse. Yeah. I think the
[1:58] Speaker 2: East got a better.
[2:00] Speaker 1: But you had a lot of bottom feeders for last
[2:01] Speaker 1: season that have made, you know, you look at like
[2:03] Speaker 1: the Pacers getting highly bad. I'm just saying teams. I
[2:06] Speaker 1: think the East is stronger than the West.
[2:08] Speaker 2: Like those easy. I think the East is stronger than
[2:10] Speaker 2: the West this year. Who?
[2:12] Speaker 1: Oh, you got the Cavs, which we're not talking about frequently,
[2:16] Speaker 1: but could be a great regular season too.
[2:18] Speaker 2: I think the West only got three strong teams, really.
[2:25] Speaker 2: I got him over 42, though. 42, guys? 42? You
[2:30] Speaker 2: think they got it right?
[2:33] Speaker 3: And Dame will be ready to start the season?
[2:36] Speaker 2: What are we talking about? Is he starting healthy? Yeah, yeah.
[2:39] Speaker 3: He's hitting the ground running at the beginning.
[2:41] Speaker 2: Great question. Let me call him, Hunter.
[2:43] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[2:45] Speaker 2: Oh, no.
[2:46] Speaker 3: My concern, again, is the whole new staff, first year coach,
[2:49] Speaker 3: and just the newness of it all. Is it going
[2:51] Speaker 3: to take? a season to get that all together. Um,
[2:56] Speaker 3: but we talked about it, Drew Dame as, as kind
[3:00] Speaker 3: of your veterans on that team. I think that's, that's,
[3:02] Speaker 3: that's the, that's the thing that bolsters up the coaching staff.
[3:05] Speaker 3: You know, there's all the inexperience on the coaching staff.
[3:07] Speaker 3: You got one guy, I believe, uh, coached in the
[3:09] Speaker 3: CBA or G league or whatever it's called now in Sacramento.
[3:13] Speaker 3: And some guys I never heard of, but Jay Triano
[3:15] Speaker 3: is there to coach in Toronto. So you've got some
[3:17] Speaker 3: head coaching experience. That'd be okay. They should, Get right there.
[3:21] Speaker 1: They'll hit that 42. All right. Well, that was Put
[3:23] Speaker 1: That on Something presented by Polymarket. Download the Polymarket app
[3:27] Speaker 1: and use code ARENA to get $ 50 in bonus funds
[3:30] Speaker 1: when you deposit just $ 10. Make your next move your
[3:33] Speaker 1: best move and join the revolution.
[3:34] Speaker 2: Polymarket. No limits. No house.
[3:37] Speaker 1: Instant cash outs. The most accurate sports odds and forecasts.
[3:40] Speaker 2: In the world. All right.
[3:42] Speaker 1: Shout out to everybody who pulled up to this Friday show.
[3:44] Speaker 1: First Friday show of season five. One of the rare
[3:46] Speaker 1: Friday shows we've done, but we'll be doing Friday shows
[3:48] Speaker 1: all season long. If you're rocking with the Friday show,
[3:51] Speaker 1: go ahead and hit that like button and make sure
[3:52] Speaker 1: you subscribe. Trying to make sure that like button still
[3:55] Speaker 1: working on YouTube.
[3:56] Speaker 2: Oh, the way you talking like we done earlier. That's right.
[3:59] Speaker 2: We're just getting started. Oh, my bad. Yeah. Yeah. The
[4:03] Speaker 2: way it was. No, I'm looking at the East. Yeah.
[4:06] Speaker 4: East is stronger, right? I don't know, because there's some
[4:08] Speaker 4: teams here that didn't get better.
[4:10] Speaker 2: They got worse. Who is Cade's second option? Who's Cade's
[4:16] Speaker 2: second option? Is it still Durant? Right? We will find out.
[4:21] Speaker 3: He hasn't signed yet, but yeah.
[4:24] Speaker 2: He still got in the shooters?
[4:26] Speaker 3: Who did he replace Tobias with?
[4:27] Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. I'm sitting here looking like, I don't know.
[4:29] Speaker 2: They got Duncan Robinson, Azor Thompson, they got John Collins.
[4:33] Speaker 3: You're John Collins. You're John Collins.
[4:35] Speaker 2: Dana Jenkins, who came on great. I liked him. And
[4:37] Speaker 2: when Kay was hurt. Okay, so... Isaiah Joe from the Thunder, who... Okay,
[4:41] Speaker 2: so they'll stay solid. All right, I'm just looking at, like...
[4:43] Speaker 2: There's going to be a team up here that just...
[4:45] Speaker 2: They were good last year. I just think they're going to.
[4:49] Speaker 3: Those got Sean Sweeney as a new coach down there.
[4:52] Speaker 3: I'm not sure.
[4:53] Speaker 2: I'm just, like... I'm going to look... Upgraded. So you
[4:56] Speaker 2: look at the bottom feeders last season. Wizards, Pacers, or both? Better. Better.
[5:01] Speaker 2: Get better nets.
[5:02] Speaker 5: You say Pacers. What do you mean by the Pacers?
[5:05] Speaker 5: Tyrese Halliburton making his return to the court. Yeah, but
[5:09] Speaker 5: the last time we've seen him, how much of that
[5:11] Speaker 5: team does he still have?
[5:13] Speaker 2: Last time we've seen him, he's got a significant portion.
[5:15] Speaker 2: He's got Zubac too that they added. Yeah. Last time
[5:18] Speaker 2: we saw that team was game seven. Yeah, yeah. They
[5:22] Speaker 2: lost Turner. They lost who else? That's it, I think. No.
[5:25] Speaker 2: Benedict Mathers. Okay, yeah. Mathers. Keep going. Yeah, yeah. I'll
[5:28] Speaker 2: tell you who they have. He's with the Clippers, right?
[5:31] Speaker 3: He's a free. I thought he bounced.
[5:34] Speaker 2: New Orleans, yeah.
[5:36] Speaker 1: Halliburton still got Nebhard, still got Neesmith, Siakam. Oh, yeah,
[5:39] Speaker 1: he got enough. Kelly Uber is over here.
[5:43] Speaker 2: He got enough. He got enough.
[5:44] Speaker 3: Jesus Christ.
[5:44] Speaker 2: That's what I'm trying to tell you. Who is sorry?
[5:46] Speaker 6: What?
[5:51] Speaker 2: Who is sorry? Brooklyn. The Nets appear to be sorry,
[5:54] Speaker 2: but MPJ thinks they have to do this. No, no, no.
[5:57] Speaker 2: What I'm saying is we know who's going to be sorry.
[5:59] Speaker 2: We got Brooklyn. We got Chicago. We got New Orleans. Right.
[6:03] Speaker 1: We know those teams. But there's like four sorry teams. Now,
[6:05] Speaker 1: last season it was like 10 to 12. We got
[6:07] Speaker 1: Dallas is going to be sorry. We got Memphis is
[6:11] Speaker 1: going to be sorry. We got New Orleans.
[6:15] Speaker 2: They're going to be sorry. We know who sorry is
[6:17] Speaker 2: going to be. Sack. Huh? Sack. It's like four guaranteed
[6:22] Speaker 2: sorry teams in the league. We're going to be like Lakers.
[6:24] Speaker 4: We're going to be fun to watch, but we could
[6:28] Speaker 4: be sorry.
[6:30] Speaker 2: We could be bad. It could be bad. It could
[6:33] Speaker 2: be bad. As long as the average is 38-39, we're
[6:35] Speaker 2: going to be on TV.
[6:43] Speaker 1: Marcus, since we got you on the couch, let's talk
[6:45] Speaker 1: a little bit about your new book that just dropped
[6:47] Speaker 1: right here on the table.
[6:48] Speaker 2: Crenshaw Chronicles. Let's show the people at home a photo
[6:51] Speaker 2: of it. Crenshaw. Cougars. Yeah. You'll know. Are you in
[6:57] Speaker 2: that book? I gotta be. You always talk about the
[7:00] Speaker 2: Crenshaw guy. I always gotta be. That's all I hear
[7:03] Speaker 2: is the Crenshaw guy. What I'm saying is, hey, hey, hey, listen, listen, listen.
[7:07] Speaker 2: to be. That's all I hear. There's got to be
[7:12] Speaker 2: a chapter. He's got to be in the book. I
[7:14] Speaker 2: got his chronicles. I'm just saying the kid who came
[7:20] Speaker 2: in there and had the most poise against him came
[7:21] Speaker 2: from the valley. He's got to be, right? Big page.
[7:26] Speaker 3: Receipt of high school.
[7:26] Speaker 1: Grant High School.
[7:27] Speaker 2: My story with Gilbert, I shared this with him.
[7:33] Speaker 3: I see that name in the paper. I thought it
[7:35] Speaker 3: was a Mexican. I thought, like, this is a Mexican
[7:37] Speaker 3: that can play arenas.
[7:38] Speaker 2: He's got 40.
[7:38] Speaker 3: He's got 35. His numbers are, like, crazy. His senior year,
[7:42] Speaker 3: I just assumed. I said, he's going to Arizona. I
[7:44] Speaker 3: was like, oh, Luke's recruiting a Mexican kid. Okay, that's interesting.
[7:47] Speaker 2: He must be really, really progressive. He can really shoot.
[7:50] Speaker 3: And then when I saw him play, it kind of
[7:52] Speaker 3: all came together.
[7:53] Speaker 2: So, yeah. For sure.
[7:55] Speaker 4: But one of the– Because, I mean, he was– but
[7:58] Speaker 4: did you tell that story in the book?
[8:01] Speaker 3: No, no, no. We omitted that. That is a Baron Davis.
[8:04] Speaker 2: So it ain't finished.
[8:06] Speaker 1: BD also came into the show and did work back
[8:08] Speaker 1: in the day on Fox Sports.
[8:09] Speaker 2: Wait, BD made it in the book? No. Oh, okay.
[8:12] Speaker 2: I was going to say. You need another ghostwriter. Carstle
[8:17] Speaker 2: played at Crenshaw.
[8:18] Speaker 3: He played at Crenshaw. And Baron Davis was killing us
[8:21] Speaker 3: for three and a half quarters. They were up 12
[8:23] Speaker 3: going into the fourth quarter. And that Rover, that one-two-two
[8:26] Speaker 3: press wore him down. One-point game, he got ahead of
[8:30] Speaker 3: the pack for a layup and just dropped it out
[8:32] Speaker 3: of bounds. The fatigue finally got to him. We wound
[8:35] Speaker 3: up beating him by like one point.
[8:37] Speaker 2: I know who the Rover didn't tear down. They didn't
[8:40] Speaker 2: tear me down. But they won, though. You didn't win, though.
[8:44] Speaker 2: I didn't need the 16-10, though. 16-10 coming to the one-sit.
[8:49] Speaker 2: But if you get low out, I'm going to say
[8:51] Speaker 2: lose by it. Whatever Baron Davis did, I did that
[8:54] Speaker 2: at the half.
[8:55] Speaker 1: That's what I was doing.
[8:57] Speaker 6: You lost by the same amount of points you had.
[9:00] Speaker 6: If you had 45, y'all lost by 45.
[9:02] Speaker 2: Brother. That don't count. That don't count. Listen, sometimes winning
[9:07] Speaker 2: ain't even that. They stop playing at one point. Sometimes
[9:10] Speaker 2: when you lose, you win. Sometimes it's personal wins that
[9:13] Speaker 2: you can have. Hey, let them score, man. We have 50.
[9:16] Speaker 2: We have 50.
[9:17] Speaker 3: Like that line from White Man Can't Jump, sometimes when
[9:19] Speaker 3: you lose, you win.
[9:20] Speaker 2: Yeah. Sometimes when you lose. Sometimes when you tie, you
[9:22] Speaker 2: actually win or lose. Yeah, yeah.
[9:25] Speaker 1: But one of the biggest legends of Crenshaw High School history,
[9:29] Speaker 1: he went on. Become College Player of the Year, five-time
[9:31] Speaker 1: All-Star in the league. So Crenshaw High School, internationally known,
[9:34] Speaker 1: nationally recognized, locally respected, featured heavily in pop culture throughout
[9:39] Speaker 1: the years. We were talking last night about Kobe being
[9:41] Speaker 1: on Moesha back in the day as Terry Hightower walking
[9:43] Speaker 1: the Crenshaw jersey from that era.
[9:46] Speaker 3: Trying to get her to take the SAT for him.
[9:48] Speaker 3: I looked at that. That was a hell of a
[9:51] Speaker 3: writing job. But he wound up doing it on his own,
[9:53] Speaker 3: and so it turned out to be happening.
[9:54] Speaker 1: Shout out to Ricky Baker, too. Rest in peace. Legendary
[9:57] Speaker 1: Crenshaw High School football player. Played by Morris Chestnut. and
[10:00] Speaker 1: the Boys in the Hood. But nonetheless, alumni, influential figures
[10:03] Speaker 1: from across sports, entertainment, music, politics, and culture. So what
[10:06] Speaker 1: inspired you to write this book and just tell the
[10:08] Speaker 1: story of Crenshaw High School?
[10:10] Speaker 3: Well, just because of the iconic status that Crenshaw has
[10:16] Speaker 3: kind of had, as you talked about, in the culture.
[10:18] Speaker 3: And it started off, Charlie Rosen and I were going
[10:22] Speaker 3: to do it together. He wrote a lot of books
[10:24] Speaker 3: on sports. He was good friends with Phil Jackson. They
[10:26] Speaker 3: coached together in the CBA for a number of years
[10:28] Speaker 3: and really, really good writer. He worked with Ray Scott,
[10:32] Speaker 3: the first black NBA coach of the year with the
[10:35] Speaker 3: Pistons in the mid-70s. So our first idea was to
[10:37] Speaker 3: maybe look at the basketball program with Willie West and
[10:40] Speaker 3: see the impact that had on the Crenshaw culture and
[10:43] Speaker 3: the Crenshaw reputation internationally. And we decided after kind of
[10:48] Speaker 3: doing some research and seeing all the great achievements of
[10:52] Speaker 3: some of the alumni, then we kind of segued into
[10:55] Speaker 3: like doing some vignettes on each alumni and have them
[10:59] Speaker 3: tell what the Crenshaw experience meant to them. So between Ice-T,
[11:03] Speaker 3: you know, who's got the longest running role on a
[11:07] Speaker 3: regular series with the SUV or whatever it is. Special
[11:11] Speaker 3: Victims Unit.
[11:11] Speaker 2: Yeah, Law and Order.
[11:12] Speaker 3: 25, 26 years running. The guy that played... Bubba Gump
[11:16] Speaker 3: and Forrest Gump, Michael T. Williamson, Crenshaw alumni. Now, funny story.
[11:20] Speaker 3: Michael T. was a year ahead of Ice-T. And so
[11:23] Speaker 3: I asked Michael T. Williamson, you know, did you guys
[11:26] Speaker 3: ever interact? Yeah, we're good friends now. But initially, he
[11:29] Speaker 3: had his pop-lock dance crew. You guys know the little pop-lock?
[11:32] Speaker 3: He had his pop-lock dance crew. I had my crew.
[11:35] Speaker 3: And he was biting my moves, my witch away move.
[11:37] Speaker 3: I dropped to my knees. I jumped back up. So
[11:39] Speaker 3: I had to go up to him and jam him. Like, man,
[11:41] Speaker 3: you can't be stealing my, you can't be biting my
[11:42] Speaker 3: moves like that. And then after that, they became good friends.
[11:46] Speaker 3: But Michael T. Williams also told a story about just
[11:48] Speaker 3: the imagery of this. I mean, he had his dance crew,
[11:51] Speaker 3: 3 o'clock. They'd get to him and tell him that
[11:54] Speaker 3: there's a dance crew from from Man Yards High School.
[11:57] Speaker 3: They're looking for you. His name was Hot Dog. That
[11:59] Speaker 3: was his dad.
[11:59] Speaker 2: Hot Dog.
[12:00] Speaker 3: They're looking for you and they want to want you
[12:02] Speaker 3: to meet him on the steps of Crenshaw High School
[12:04] Speaker 3: at the entrance to have a dance off. So he
[12:06] Speaker 3: said he kept his marshmallow shoes, his apple hats, suspenders,
[12:10] Speaker 3: baggy pants in his locker. He changed into his dancing gear,
[12:13] Speaker 3: and they'd battle like in front steps to see who
[12:15] Speaker 3: had the best pop-lock moves.
[12:16] Speaker 2: I was like, what do the security guards do?
[12:20] Speaker 3: He's like, you know, they were egging us on.
[12:22] Speaker 2: They were egging us on.
[12:22] Speaker 3: They were like, go, go, go, hot dog.
[12:24] Speaker 2: Go, hot dog. Go, hot dog. Go, hot dog.
[12:27] Speaker 3: And so, but just stories like that, man. That's me saying,
[12:30] Speaker 3: hot dog.
[12:31] Speaker 2: It was that coke. It was that hot dog. It
[12:34] Speaker 2: was that hot dog. And they had that good coke then.
[12:37] Speaker 2: CIA was doing their stuff. There you go. Yeah, you
[12:39] Speaker 2: know the deal.
[12:45] Speaker 3: But it's all kind of good. Darryl Strawberry, you know,
[12:48] Speaker 3: Crenshaw alumni. You had a chance to talk to him.
[12:50] Speaker 2: Makes sense. Yeah. Okay.
[12:55] Speaker 3: Had to go back after he had his heart attack
[12:58] Speaker 3: on his 62nd birthday and re-interview him and talk about it.
[13:01] Speaker 3: Now he's turned his life around, had his issues, spent
[13:04] Speaker 3: some time in prison. He talks about that. Big John Williams, who,
[13:08] Speaker 3: you know, was a great, great basketball player. People talk
[13:11] Speaker 3: about the best player in Crenshaw history. They throw my
[13:13] Speaker 3: name out there as the best, but, you know, I
[13:18] Speaker 3: told John I wouldn't say this publicly, which I'm doing
[13:20] Speaker 3: right now, but he was really good. He may have
[13:22] Speaker 3: been better than I was. He had more of a
[13:24] Speaker 3: complete game, could shoot, could handle, could do the whole thing.
[13:27] Speaker 2: The coach? Yeah, yeah.
[13:29] Speaker 6: Your coach, Crenshaw coach, was there for what, 30 years?
[13:31] Speaker 3: Willie West there for 39 years. 39 years coached myself,
[13:35] Speaker 3: coached Josiah, coached my other sons, Josh and Mariah, coached
[13:38] Speaker 3: generations of Johnsons. He was the one consistent thing that
[13:42] Speaker 3: was there. the whole time. But it's just so many
[13:44] Speaker 3: different people in terms of athletics. Kevin Olley, Kevin Olley,
[13:48] Speaker 3: you know, championship at UConn, Stevie Thompson.
[13:51] Speaker 2: Is Dorsey in there?
[13:52] Speaker 3: No, we don't mess with, I went to Dorsey. We
[13:55] Speaker 3: had a big match with Dorsey. And so Dorsey was
[13:58] Speaker 3: a feeder school out of behind the middle school was
[14:00] Speaker 3: a feeder school for Dorsey and Crenshaw. I started off
[14:02] Speaker 3: with Dorsey transferred to Crenshaw as a junior and just
[14:05] Speaker 3: playing for coach West was the best move that I made. So,
[14:08] Speaker 3: I just wanted to pay my respects to a great school.
[14:11] Speaker 3: I see he made a great point. He said that
[14:13] Speaker 3: if you put a pin right in the center of
[14:18] Speaker 3: South Central, put a pin in the center of South Central,
[14:21] Speaker 3: you put a pin into the quad right in the
[14:23] Speaker 3: middle of Crenshaw's quad area where we had lunch and
[14:25] Speaker 3: dances and all that stuff. So Crenshaw's like the epicenter
[14:29] Speaker 3: of South Central. So this was an opportunity to talk
[14:32] Speaker 3: to different people. Two and a half years. Two and
[14:33] Speaker 3: a half years of work on this, man. Talked to
[14:36] Speaker 3: a bunch of different people. Interviewed Josiah, my other son Josh, Mariah,
[14:39] Speaker 3: who home went to Crenshaw. And yeah, it was just
[14:42] Speaker 3: a labor of love. So I'm happy to be involved
[14:45] Speaker 3: with it.
[14:45] Speaker 1: Well, a lot of people in the chat don't read.
[14:47] Speaker 1: So get the audio book. Did you get banged on
[14:49] Speaker 1: at Crenshaw? You know, pocket check a few times.
[14:52] Speaker 2: It was a different time when you went there. It
[14:55] Speaker 2: was going down. I was at Dorsey. I was there.
[14:59] Speaker 1: We see all these things about, like, school shootings and
[15:01] Speaker 1: stuff nowadays. I had to look back, like, damn, that happened, like,
[15:03] Speaker 1: three or four times on camera. It was just like a.
[15:05] Speaker 2: Regular, huh? It was like some regular shit.
[15:07] Speaker 3: Well, they had a surprise locker check in 1973. In
[15:12] Speaker 3: my research, I came across this. And our principal, Sid Thompson,
[15:16] Speaker 3: who was the first African-American to head to L.A. Unified
[15:18] Speaker 3: School District, they found like 25 handguns in the lockers
[15:21] Speaker 3: at Crenshaw Heights. It's 1973. So it was the assistant
[15:26] Speaker 3: coach who actually came up with the rover defense that
[15:29] Speaker 3: Gilbert rifled through.
[15:30] Speaker 2: When he was at.
[15:31] Speaker 3: Grant and scored 40-plus points in three quarters, Reese Duckett,
[15:34] Speaker 3: he would come to school with an Army jacket and
[15:36] Speaker 3: a sawed-off shotgun in the pocket of the jacket because
[15:40] Speaker 3: he had to walk through some of the most notorious
[15:42] Speaker 3: neighborhoods getting home. So he'd put his jacket in his
[15:46] Speaker 3: locker and do his thing and walk back home and
[15:48] Speaker 3: all that. Wow.
[15:49] Speaker 1: Crenshaw High School, ladies and gentlemen. Make sure you pick
[15:51] Speaker 1: up the book. For those of you who don't like
[15:52] Speaker 1: to read, there's an audio version available as well. Crenshaw
[15:56] Speaker 1: Chronicles on Amazon.
[15:58] Speaker 2: Crenshaw Chronicles.
[15:58] Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. We got a copy of the book for you, too.
[16:00] Speaker 1: Don't worry about it. I'm an audio booker. Audio book it.
[16:04] Speaker 1: Get you a Kindle, whatever you need. Let's shift it
[16:07] Speaker 1: back to the NBA basketball. Basketball world lost a legend
[16:10] Speaker 1: recently with the passing of Don Nelson. A legend as
[16:13] Speaker 1: a player with the Celtics, as a coach. Was your
[16:15] Speaker 1: first and last NBA coach, if I'm not mistaken.
[16:20] Speaker 3: Yes.
[16:20] Speaker 1: Huge influence on, not on yourself, but the modern era
[16:23] Speaker 1: of NBA basketball. People hear that name, Don Nelson. Certified legend.
[16:26] Speaker 1: So when you look at Nelly, what impact did Don
[16:29] Speaker 1: Nelson have on you? What impact did Don Nelson have
[16:30] Speaker 1: on the league as a whole?
[16:32] Speaker 3: Well, I mean, for me and Nelly, my rookie year
[16:36] Speaker 3: was his first full season as head coach. He'd gotten
[16:39] Speaker 3: the job mid-season. Toward the end of the season, Larry
[16:41] Speaker 3: Costello got relieved, and he took over. But my first
[16:44] Speaker 3: year was his really first year as a head coach.
[16:47] Speaker 3: And he came in. Now, he's from the Boston Celtic organization,
[16:50] Speaker 3: won a couple of championships back there with Red Auerbach
[16:53] Speaker 3: and John Havlicek and all those greats, Bill Russell, was there,
[16:56] Speaker 3: and then later Dave Collins and that crew in the
[16:58] Speaker 3: early 70s. So he had us mimic everything that the
[17:02] Speaker 3: Celtics did, defensively, offensively. He wanted us to kind of
[17:07] Speaker 3: mimic that Celtic organization. And for me, man, he just,
[17:09] Speaker 3: you know, Nelly was a 6'6, 6'7, forward, thick leg,
[17:13] Speaker 3: wasn't the fastest guy in the world, had a nice
[17:15] Speaker 3: shot out of Iowa, but he knew how to run
[17:17] Speaker 3: in transition, so he kind of taught me and showed
[17:20] Speaker 3: me how to, you know, use the tricks of the
[17:24] Speaker 3: trade in terms of getting out, you know, contest a shooter,
[17:26] Speaker 3: keep going. Don't stay in no man's land watching. Just
[17:28] Speaker 3: keep going, go down. You're doing nobody any good after
[17:32] Speaker 3: you contest a shot. Little things like that, how to
[17:35] Speaker 3: get my feet set. He also, Joe, was instrumental in
[17:39] Speaker 3: me going from more of an inside offensive rebounder. I
[17:43] Speaker 3: held the offensive rebounding record for years until Giannis broke
[17:47] Speaker 3: it like in his 10th year. And Yannis was kind
[17:50] Speaker 3: of teasing me like, yeah, yeah, I got your record.
[17:51] Speaker 3: I got your record. It took me seven years. It
[17:54] Speaker 3: took you 10 years. So, hey, whatever. But, but, but, but, but,
[17:58] Speaker 3: but Nelly showed me an adjustment on my jump shot
[18:00] Speaker 3: going into my second year. I averaged like 19.6 as
[18:04] Speaker 3: a rookie in 10 plus rebounds game. My second year,
[18:07] Speaker 3: he brought me out to Loyola where the team was
[18:09] Speaker 3: having practice for summer league.
[18:11] Speaker 7: And he's like, I want to work with you on
[18:12] Speaker 7: your jump set.
[18:15] Speaker 2: Easy little brag.
[18:17] Speaker 3: A little 19 and 10. 20 and 10. But no,
[18:18] Speaker 3: but he showed me just a little adjustment about, you know,
[18:21] Speaker 3: snapping the elbow. I used to shoot like with a
[18:23] Speaker 3: nasty kind of wrist, wristy jumper, get up high and
[18:26] Speaker 3: shoot with the wrist. But he showed me just how
[18:28] Speaker 3: to snap that elbow through. And I worked on that
[18:30] Speaker 3: the entire summer and came back my second year and
[18:33] Speaker 3: averaged like 26 and 8, you know, and first team
[18:36] Speaker 3: all pro and just had a great year. But that
[18:38] Speaker 3: was the turning point. in terms of me understanding really
[18:41] Speaker 3: the mechanics of shooting. We didn't have the shooting coaches.
[18:43] Speaker 3: We didn't have, obviously, the internet and everything to show
[18:46] Speaker 3: you the proper form and elbow straight and all that stuff.
[18:48] Speaker 3: You're pretty much just kind of doing your own thing.
[18:50] Speaker 3: And he showed me, he was really the first one
[18:52] Speaker 3: to show me just the proper shooting mechanics, broke the
[18:55] Speaker 3: film down for me, and got my double right.
[18:57] Speaker 6: Little Bronnie James, I get it. Little Bronnie right there.
[19:03] Speaker 2: Who is that, Joe? Yeah, yeah. I'm just merely a host.
[19:06] Speaker 2: It's hard to live up to all that.
[19:08] Speaker 3: But I made sure.
[19:09] Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Merely a host. I made sure. Hard
[19:11] Speaker 2: to live up to all that. I made sure. The
[19:14] Speaker 2: LeBron of us.
[19:15] Speaker 3: Josiah can attest to this. I made sure all my
[19:17] Speaker 3: sons get you.
[19:17] Speaker 6: My rookie year, 20 and 10.
[19:19] Speaker 2: Michael Jordan had me in his life. You know what
[19:22] Speaker 2: I mean? Coming to Josiah again, he's like, you're on
[19:25] Speaker 2: the bench again. That was not my calling. Future host. But, nah,
[19:33] Speaker 2: so yeah, you look at that situation.
[19:34] Speaker 1: So one more thing I want to touch on with you,
[19:37] Speaker 1: we'll get back to contemporary topics, but yesterday on the show,
[19:40] Speaker 1: Brendan Haywood talked about how Jalen Brunson winning the chip
[19:43] Speaker 1: in finals MVP made him realize how many people don't
[19:47] Speaker 1: appreciate Isaiah Thomas and being a small guy. being able
[19:50] Speaker 1: to accomplish that winning championship, winning finals MVP. I think
[19:52] Speaker 1: one of three we talk about. Isaiah Thomas talked about
[19:55] Speaker 1: Steph Curry and now Jalen Brunson kind of putting his
[19:57] Speaker 1: name in that mix. But you got to play against
[20:00] Speaker 1: Isaiah Thomas early in his career when you were kind
[20:02] Speaker 1: of at the height of your career making those All-NBA
[20:04] Speaker 1: teams and All-Star games. What impressed you the most about
[20:07] Speaker 1: Isaiah Thomas during your time in the league?
[20:10] Speaker 2: Oh, man.
[20:10] Speaker 3: I mean, just his ability to create separation and get
[20:14] Speaker 3: a shot off his quickness, his athleticism at 6'1. Even
[20:17] Speaker 3: before that, as a sophomore in Indiana when they won
[20:19] Speaker 3: a national championship, there's a play where he comes down
[20:22] Speaker 3: in transition and takes off just inside the free throw line,
[20:25] Speaker 3: beyond the dotted and dunks. And this is like at 6'1.
[20:28] Speaker 3: You know, talk about athleticism. And I know you guys
[20:32] Speaker 3: will mock some of the ball handling stuff you see
[20:35] Speaker 3: him do because it looks so outdated now. But back
[20:38] Speaker 3: in those days, it was cutting edge. He was doing
[20:40] Speaker 3: stuff that nobody was doing back in those days. He
[20:42] Speaker 3: had against Lorenzo Romo, I believe, a two-on-one fast break,
[20:45] Speaker 3: and he faked a pass, threw it up to himself,
[20:47] Speaker 3: caught it in the air, laid it up. I mean,
[20:49] Speaker 3: he was doing all that kind of stuff back in
[20:50] Speaker 3: those days. He had the flashy style of play, but
[20:54] Speaker 3: playing for Bobby Knight and all that, he was also really,
[20:56] Speaker 3: really efficient in terms of what he was doing, had
[20:58] Speaker 3: the big 20-point quarter against the Lakers or something with
[21:01] Speaker 3: a sprained ankle.
[21:03] Speaker 2: Yeah, 25 in that third.
[21:04] Speaker 1: I think it was like 43, whatever it was.
[21:06] Speaker 3: Just to be able to embrace the big moments. And,
[21:10] Speaker 3: you know, I always enjoyed playing against him, always enjoyed
[21:13] Speaker 3: being around him. It's funny, we were playing the Pistons
[21:17] Speaker 3: two games, successive weekends, and we were one game apart
[21:21] Speaker 3: in the standings. And so they asked the Piston players
[21:25] Speaker 3: kind of like, you know, you guys think you're going
[21:28] Speaker 3: to overtake the Bucks for the Central Division Championship. So
[21:31] Speaker 3: they were like, yeah, they're a bunch of old men, blah, blah, blah, bleep, bleep, bleep.
[21:34] Speaker 3: And so then they asked me to respond. So I
[21:36] Speaker 3: was like, they're a bunch of young punks and whippersnappers.
[21:38] Speaker 3: We're going to win the Central Division.
[21:40] Speaker 2: You called them whippersnappers? Whippersnappers.
[21:42] Speaker 3: Young punks. Yeah, just being, you know, tongue-in-cheek. So they
[21:47] Speaker 3: had a promotion at the Pontiac Silverdome that if you
[21:51] Speaker 3: wore a leather jacket, Marcus Johnson's called us a bunch
[21:53] Speaker 3: of punks. If you wear a black leather jacket, get
[21:55] Speaker 3: in for $ 5. They had like 40,000 people in black
[21:58] Speaker 3: leather jackets like that next night. It was a great game.
[22:00] Speaker 3: We wound up losing about two or three points. I
[22:02] Speaker 3: had a good game, 26 and 12 or something.
[22:04] Speaker 2: I love how you got to throw those things.
[22:05] Speaker 3: We beat them the next week for the Central Division Championship.
[22:08] Speaker 3: So I kind of got started when they were just
[22:12] Speaker 3: starting to elevate themselves into the championship unit in the
[22:16] Speaker 3: late 80s that they became. And Isaiah obviously was a
[22:18] Speaker 3: big part of that.
[22:19] Speaker 2: Okay, for sure.
[22:21] Speaker 3: Loved it.
[22:21] Speaker 2: Now you've heard about the 80s. Can we?
[22:25] Speaker 6: If you're talking about T-Mac, I'm going to ask who
[22:29] Speaker 6: we've got, Clyde.
[22:30] Speaker 2: Drexler or T-Mac. Where did that come from?
[22:36] Speaker 6: Because we're talking about MVPs and champions, right? Ain't Clyde
[22:39] Speaker 6: Drexler a champion?
[22:41] Speaker 8: No.
[22:41] Speaker 2: Here's your time. Drexler won a championship? You got to
[22:44] Speaker 2: ask the right question. Yeah. You got to ask the
[22:55] Speaker 2: right question. Oh, he won in 95. Just won. Just won?
[22:58] Speaker 2: Just won with that rocket squad. Oh. I thought he
[23:01] Speaker 2: won two. It was the second one, right?
[23:04] Speaker 3: Yeah, the second one.
[23:04] Speaker 2: He got a one, too, right? I thought he won two.
[23:06] Speaker 1: Yeah, so he was the blade until 95. He came
[23:08] Speaker 1: in 95.
[23:08] Speaker 2: Yeah, he came in the second one.
[23:09] Speaker 3: Okay, he got him one.
[23:10] Speaker 4: Yeah, because he got traded there. Because Charles went to
[23:16] Speaker 4: Suns and then trickled down.
[23:20] Speaker 2: So you said Clyde or T-Mac? Mm-hmm. What's the question?
[23:24] Speaker 3: Who would you.
[23:25] Speaker 6: He said MVPs over champions. It was the question.
[23:29] Speaker 2: MVPs over... Oh, T-Mac ain't got it. It was... Okay,
[23:33] Speaker 2: so it started with Kevin Durant, which he has all
[23:37] Speaker 2: of it. Right. So he has all the awards, right?
[23:41] Speaker 2: So he said... Which one would you rather have? The most...
[23:44] Speaker 2: If he had to choose one first, he's choosing the MVP. Right.
[23:49] Speaker 4: Because it's a harder award to win. Only 33 to
[23:51] Speaker 4: 36 players.
[23:53] Speaker 4: In the entire history have wanted, meaning these are the
[23:58] Speaker 4: top tier people in the NBA. So he says, I
[24:02] Speaker 4: want that first. That means if you, if someone says, hey,
[24:07] Speaker 4: what's your, like, who are you? And he says, I'm
[24:10] Speaker 4: an MVP. That tells you to look up all the
[24:14] Speaker 4: way at the top because there's only 33 of us,
[24:16] Speaker 4: 33 to 36 of us individually Champions, if I'm a champion,
[24:23] Speaker 4: then other questions are going to ask. Who are you
[24:26] Speaker 4: in the championship? What team did you play for? So
[24:28] Speaker 4: he said he wants that award first.
[24:30] Speaker 6: So he said MVP is harder to win than a championship.
[24:34] Speaker 6: That's what you're saying.
[24:36] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[24:37] Speaker 3: You put more value in the MVP.
[24:39] Speaker 2: You put more value in the MVP than the championship.
[24:41] Speaker 3: You know, it reminds me of the late, great Jack
[24:45] Speaker 3: Haley who played with the Bulls. Just always throw that
[24:48] Speaker 3: up in my face. Oh, MJ, I got a championship.
[24:50] Speaker 3: You don't have a ring. You don't have a ring.
[24:51] Speaker 3: You got a ring, man, but you was on the
[24:53] Speaker 3: bench waving towels. I'm making all pro teams. I'm averaging
[24:56] Speaker 3: 20 a game for my career.
[24:57] Speaker 2: You keep your ring.
[24:58] Speaker 3: You keep your ring. Why are you comparing to the
[25:05] Speaker 3: last man?
[25:06] Speaker 6: You never got out the first round, so it should
[25:08] Speaker 6: be harder to get a championship than MVP. If you
[25:13] Speaker 6: never got out the first round, you're supposed to be
[25:15] Speaker 6: an all-NBA guy, and you.
[25:17] Speaker 2: Can't get out the first round.
[25:19] Speaker 6: What that says about you, you could be MVP, but
[25:23] Speaker 6: you can't get out the first round and win a championship.
[25:33] Speaker 6: You comparing a championship from the 10th man, but we
[25:38] Speaker 6: comparing you the first guy. So if I'm comparing the
[25:41] Speaker 6: first guy, I would compare him to Jor and Kobe.
[25:45] Speaker 6: My man, you compare him to... Don't compare the MVP
[25:50] Speaker 6: guy to.
[25:51] Speaker 2: Yeah, don't compare.
[25:52] Speaker 6: The MVP guy to damn Shannon Brown.
[25:56] Speaker 2: You don't do that. Of course you can make fun
[25:58] Speaker 2: of him.
[25:58] Speaker 4: Okay, the person who's making this has it all. The
[26:03] Speaker 4: person who has it has two championships.
[26:07] Speaker 2: He has an MVP. He has a scoring title. He
[26:09] Speaker 2: has a finals MVP. Two of them.
[26:12] Speaker 4: That's the person who's saying it. So when he's saying it,
[26:14] Speaker 4: I have every single one of them. So I don't
[26:16] Speaker 4: lack any of them. So I'm the one who can say, hey,
[26:21] Speaker 4: out of.
[26:21] Speaker 2: All this, out of all of these... You ain't going
[26:23] Speaker 2: to have none of it. No, the person who started
[26:25] Speaker 2: the conversation... I'm going off of T-Mac.
[26:28] Speaker 4: But you have to see who the source was. The
[26:31] Speaker 4: source was Kevin Durant. And Kevin Durant says, out of
[26:34] Speaker 4: all of these awards, that one right there, the MVP,
[26:41] Speaker 4: the one that says, I am the best player on
[26:43] Speaker 4: the planet, if you're going to say it's... It could
[26:48] Speaker 4: have been any of us. You can say I'm one
[26:51] Speaker 4: of three.
[26:52] Speaker 2: The top three players on the planet is going to
[26:55] Speaker 2: win that award.
[26:56] Speaker 6: That right there is a better value. I don't measure
[27:01] Speaker 6: Jordan off MVPs.
[27:05] Speaker 2: What do you measure him off of? The six championships. Oh,
[27:07] Speaker 2: the six. I don't know how many MVPs he got. Huh?
[27:12] Speaker 2: I don't know how many MVPs he got.
[27:14] Speaker 3: Okay.
[27:15] Speaker 2: Okay.
[27:17] Speaker 6: When Kobe did this, he didn't do how many MVPs
[27:20] Speaker 6: he had.
[27:20] Speaker 2: No, no, no, no. What did Jordan have? Five MVPs? Four, five?
[27:25] Speaker 3: What did Jordan have?
[27:25] Speaker 2: And when did Jordan become the best player in the
[27:28] Speaker 2: world by consensus? Like, 92? How many championships did he
[27:32] Speaker 2: have in 92? We know, yeah. We know. We know.
[27:34] Speaker 2: I don't remember that. He was a boarder. He didn't
[27:36] Speaker 2: play basketball.
[27:38] Speaker 4: Now, I can tell you this, and this is the
[27:40] Speaker 4: study that I did.
[27:41] Speaker 2: It took me about two, three months, right? You can't
[27:44] Speaker 2: convince me. I don't need to.
[27:48] Speaker 4: I looked at all the voting right it took me
[27:51] Speaker 4: two to three months of writing down everything trying to
[27:53] Speaker 4: figure out so I had to write down everyone's accolades
[27:57] Speaker 4: and then pull them to the side so I was
[28:00] Speaker 4: wondering how did they come up with their list of
[28:04] Speaker 4: Jordan one LeBron two Kareem magic right that list we
[28:09] Speaker 4: look at and figure out where we are right and
[28:16] Speaker 4: It seemed inconsistent to me, like what measurement, what is
[28:20] Speaker 4: the value of what?
[28:22] Speaker 2: What is the value, what is these values?
[28:26] Speaker 4: When you break it all down from its source, the
[28:30] Speaker 4: most important one is MVP. MVP holds the highest value.
[28:37] Speaker 4: Score and title holds the second highest value. First team
[28:40] Speaker 4: all NBA, which means out of the whole league, you
[28:43] Speaker 4: are the best player in your position in your top five.
[28:47] Speaker 4: So that means it's you versus the field of everyone
[28:50] Speaker 4: in your position. Second team, top ten, then it has
[28:53] Speaker 4: the defensive player of the year. Championship was behind finals MVP, actually,
[29:01] Speaker 4: when you break down the numbers because it's all mathematics.
[29:05] Speaker 2: Mathematics is.
[29:06] Speaker 6: MVP is better. I mean, scoring titles should be better
[29:09] Speaker 6: than MVP. I mean, you score more points than everybody
[29:12] Speaker 6: in the league. MVP mostly off the team who got
[29:15] Speaker 6: in first place.
[29:16] Speaker 2: Like Steve Nash.
[29:17] Speaker 4: It's still you versus 450 people.
[29:19] Speaker 6: It's an individual award, though. If I score more than everybody,
[29:23] Speaker 6: I led the whole NBA in scoring.
[29:25] Speaker 2: You can argue with me. It should be higher.
[29:27] Speaker 3: It is a second.
[29:29] Speaker 2: It should be higher than MVP. They have MVP, most
[29:31] Speaker 2: valuable player. Meaning you won.
[29:36] Speaker 6: But MVP is off your team's success, though.
[29:39] Speaker 2: It could be. It is. But you still have to
[29:42] Speaker 2: be one of the best players in the team. In
[29:44] Speaker 2: the league. Just on that team. On in the league. No,
[29:47] Speaker 2: on that team, too. In the league, too. On the team, too.
[29:51] Speaker 2: So Detroit? It was the MVP in Detroit? On the team.
[29:53] Speaker 2: I'm just saying. Phoenix. Steve Nash. How much he average?
[29:56] Speaker 2: Was he the... Would you hold that MVP higher than...
[30:00] Speaker 2: It's an MVP.
[30:01] Speaker 3: Kobe would have scored in championships that year.
[30:03] Speaker 2: Yeah, that year.
[30:04] Speaker 6: Kobe did 81, all that. Was he number best player
[30:07] Speaker 6: in the league that year?
[30:08] Speaker 2: No, he wasn't the best. He was top three. So
[30:11] Speaker 2: it don't mean that much then. I said top three.
[30:14] Speaker 6: He was the top three best player in the league?
[30:15] Speaker 2: He was top three in the league. You are considered... Wait,
[30:20] Speaker 2: that year? One of the better players in the league. No,
[30:23] Speaker 2: let's argue. It's not about arguing. No, Nash was the
[30:27] Speaker 2: top three best player in the league. Again, it's about facts.
[30:29] Speaker 2: I just want to give you the facts. You just
[30:31] Speaker 2: said Nash was top three. I just want to give
[30:34] Speaker 2: you the facts, sir. Who was in the league that year?
[30:37] Speaker 2: I just want to give you the facts. Bron was
[30:40] Speaker 2: second in voting. Kobe was actually third in voting. This
[30:43] Speaker 2: is 2004, too. No way. No, 2006.
[30:46] Speaker 4: When everyone said Kobe should have won it, actually, he
[30:49] Speaker 4: was third in votes.
[30:50] Speaker 2: Five, six, right?
[30:50] Speaker 4: Five, six, I think. He was third in votes. Actually,
[30:53] Speaker 4: LeBron was second in votes. The reason Steve Nash actually
[30:57] Speaker 4: got the second one was because they thought his team
[31:00] Speaker 4: was going to be worse because Amari Stoudemire... was down
[31:05] Speaker 4: and they put so much value on Stoudemire. The reason
[31:08] Speaker 4: he won it the first time.
[31:08] Speaker 2: Is because they won like 19 games the year before
[31:13] Speaker 2: and then won 65 games.
[31:14] Speaker 6: You got KG, Tim Duncan, and Nash is better than
[31:19] Speaker 6: all of them.
[31:20] Speaker 2: He played better.
[31:21] Speaker 4: He played better than all of them that year.
[31:26] Speaker 2: So he was the best point guard.
[31:28] Speaker 4: So you can say I'm the best point guard, meaning
[31:31] Speaker 4: I am the number one player in my position.
[31:33] Speaker 2: That holds more value. So Pistons went from 14 wins
[31:36] Speaker 2: to 44 wins to 60 wins. Say that again?
[31:37] Speaker 1: Pistons went from 14 wins in 24 to 44 wins
[31:38] Speaker 1: in 25. Obviously 60, and then they were first overall
[31:40] Speaker 1: last season in the East, 60 wins.
[31:49] Speaker 4: And that's how that's sort of measure on the jump
[31:51] Speaker 4: because of this one player.
[31:53] Speaker 2: And that's just how the numbers is done. Right. It's one.
[31:57] Speaker 4: You're you versus the field championship championship trophies is 17 players.
[32:04] Speaker 2: Versus 450. You see the math? You see how the
[32:07] Speaker 2: math shrinks? MVP is too, though. It's off of winning. Okay,
[32:11] Speaker 2: let's try it again. It's off of winning. There's one
[32:13] Speaker 2: MVP trophy that's going to be given. So it's one
[32:17] Speaker 2: versus 450. That means one player versus 400. 17.
[32:22] Speaker 6: Oh, it's off Team Success, too. It's individualized. There's... But you.
[32:28] Speaker 2: Okay, just.
[32:28] Speaker 6: You only win MVP if you win the top three
[32:31] Speaker 6: of the.
[32:32] Speaker 2: Okay, hold on. In your conference. Hold on. If I'm
[32:34] Speaker 2: number one or two, that's when you win MVP. Okay.
[32:36] Speaker 2: And that's Team Success, too. Let's try it again. You
[32:38] Speaker 2: don't need to be... We don't need to argue this.
[32:41] Speaker 2: I'm just going to give you the facts. When we
[32:43] Speaker 2: start this season, right, there's... How many trophies are there?
[32:46] Speaker 2: MVP trophies. One, right? Correct. So that means.
[32:49] Speaker 4: Out of the whole league, one of us is gonna
[32:52] Speaker 4: win this trophy. One trophy, 450 people have a chance
[32:57] Speaker 4: to win the one trophy.
[32:59] Speaker 2: Championship. 17 of us get to win this ring.
[33:05] Speaker 6: Had the last person, last place team ever won, person
[33:08] Speaker 6: won MVP?
[33:09] Speaker 2: How about this? Get a calculator. Get it. Get a calculator.
[33:12] Speaker 2: Do one versus 450 and then championship 17 of us.
[33:16] Speaker 2: 17 of us get this ring. Now, the reason the
[33:26] Speaker 2: finals MVP is higher than the ring, because out of
[33:31] Speaker 2: the 30-something players on the court, one gets it.
[33:35] Speaker 4: Versus the 17 versus 17, or 17 versus... So, basically,
[33:39] Speaker 4: in a championship game, right, half of them get a ring.
[33:43] Speaker 4: But only one gets the Finals MVP, so the Finals
[33:45] Speaker 4: MVP is getting rated higher. So when you start doing
[33:49] Speaker 4: the math, you start doing.
[33:51] Speaker 2: Right?
[33:51] Speaker 6: I get Finals MVP. It's still based off team success, too.
[33:55] Speaker 6: Everything is based off team success. Okay, cool. So when
[34:00] Speaker 6: you do the math.
[34:01] Speaker 2: And you start calculating points, right, and you say, all right,
[34:04] Speaker 2: these MVPs, let's say, get 20 points, right? So everybody
[34:07] Speaker 2: who has MVP, 20 points, right? Scoring titles, right? 19 points.
[34:11] Speaker 2: Everybody gets 19. You start doing it like that, right?
[34:14] Speaker 2: Scoring titles should be higher. You start doing it like that.
[34:16] Speaker 2: It don't give a fuck how you do it. You
[34:17] Speaker 2: start doing it like that. That's how you get Michael
[34:19] Speaker 2: Jordan won because you will realize that the scoring titles
[34:23] Speaker 2: versus LeBron And let's put him at 19 points. Think
[34:27] Speaker 2: about how many more scoring titles that he has in
[34:29] Speaker 2: LeBron at a 19 point clip. Right. You start. There's
[34:34] Speaker 2: a big gap that that happens just on that. That's
[34:36] Speaker 2: that alone. Then first team. How many more first teams. Right.
[34:39] Speaker 4: So you start weaving it out. Then you start realizing
[34:42] Speaker 4: that no matter what LeBron does mathematically, he can't catch.
[34:47] Speaker 4: He can't catch because that scoring title holds so much weight.
[34:51] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[34:51] Speaker 4: Then you start looking at it and you realize, oh
[34:53] Speaker 4: my God, these are the metrics of how it's going.
[34:56] Speaker 4: So when someone says, why is Kobe 11th? Because the
[35:00] Speaker 4: most important thing, that is one.
[35:02] Speaker 2: MVP. MVP. He only got one of them.
[35:04] Speaker 1: Yeah, but who, what panel got together and decided this?
[35:07] Speaker 1: And why do we have to take it as gospel?
[35:08] Speaker 1: I don't motherfucking.
[35:10] Speaker 2: Know, man. You asked me how many seconds is the
[35:13] Speaker 2: green light to the yellow light to the red light,
[35:15] Speaker 2: and I do it. Don't get mad at me, goddammit.
[35:17] Speaker 2: I didn't do the system. I just figured it out.
[35:20] Speaker 3: But another variable, another variable.
[35:22] Speaker 2: If I may, if I may, another variable.
[35:24] Speaker 1: But why we gotta just accept that but but challenge
[35:26] Speaker 1: everything there's another.
[35:28] Speaker 3: Variable I try and it's up to the motherfuckers like
[35:31] Speaker 3: this over here This is something I lived through When
[35:35] Speaker 3: I was first team all pro in 79 the players
[35:39] Speaker 3: voted on MVP all protein haters that season they switched
[35:44] Speaker 3: it after that season to the writers, which was Larry
[35:46] Speaker 3: Bird's rookie year and Larry Bird comes in averaging 21.
[35:50] Speaker 3: Larry Bird would tell you he was probably the third
[35:51] Speaker 3: or fourth best forward in the league that year. He
[35:53] Speaker 3: was first team all pro, but that's based on the writers.
[35:56] Speaker 3: And my thing is that if the players would have
[35:58] Speaker 3: voted Adrian Danley averaged 28 a game, I was voted
[36:00] Speaker 3: the number one player in the league in terms of
[36:03] Speaker 3: who the general manager would pick. They were starting a team.
[36:05] Speaker 3: I was that guy a couple of years in a row.
[36:07] Speaker 3: So my point is that that kind of skews. You
[36:10] Speaker 3: talk about Michael Jordan, one of those Carl Malone years.
[36:12] Speaker 3: I was working for the Sonics. I know this firsthand.
[36:16] Speaker 3: the writers, the media colluded and said that Michael Jordan
[36:20] Speaker 3: had dominated the award too much. It was time for
[36:22] Speaker 3: somebody else to win. So we're going to give it
[36:24] Speaker 3: to Karl Malone. That's the year Michael doubled back and
[36:26] Speaker 3: got the steal and hit the big jumper on Russell
[36:29] Speaker 3: and all that stuff.
[36:29] Speaker 4: So what happened the year that took it out of
[36:33] Speaker 4: the players?
[36:34] Speaker 2: So who got screwed that the players screwed over that
[36:37] Speaker 2: forced it to go to the writers?
[36:39] Speaker 3: Well, no, I don't think anybody got screwed. I think
[36:42] Speaker 3: the league was looking... for more publicity at that point.
[36:46] Speaker 3: That was the delayed basis, televised games and all that.
[36:49] Speaker 3: So they figured that if they gave it to the writers,
[36:51] Speaker 3: that the writers would cover it. The writers would make
[36:53] Speaker 3: a bit more of a bigger deal out of it.
[36:56] Speaker 3: Mileage in terms of publicity if the writers are the
[36:59] Speaker 3: one who are invested because they're the ones voting the
[37:00] Speaker 3: media But they're the ones invested and they're gonna get
[37:04] Speaker 3: more coverage from.
[37:04] Speaker 1: It You think about the wild shit though at that time?
[37:07] Speaker 1: It's like how are you watching all these games? Like
[37:09] Speaker 1: now obviously we've got all these resources be able to
[37:11] Speaker 1: do all that stuff, right? I'm reading the newspaper article
[37:14] Speaker 1: So if that writer writes glowingly about whatever happened in
[37:16] Speaker 1: that game, but they could be full of shit It
[37:17] Speaker 1: could be.
[37:18] Speaker 2: All cap, right?
[37:19] Speaker 1: Right Saying, oh, he had 35, but he was 7
[37:21] Speaker 1: for 40 from the field. But I'm going to leave
[37:23] Speaker 1: that part out. And now you just read the big headlines.
[37:25] Speaker 1: But how are you? And I think it's still a
[37:27] Speaker 1: problem we deal with today when I look at these writers.
[37:29] Speaker 1: You guys don't cover every single game. You guys are
[37:32] Speaker 1: even guilty of just.
[37:33] Speaker 2: What is the checks?
[37:35] Speaker 4: When I was doing the research, I was asking for
[37:37] Speaker 4: the checks and balances. Meaning, if 100 of us is voting, right,
[37:44] Speaker 4: and we're getting it mailed, And I'm sitting here writing
[37:47] Speaker 4: down my list.
[37:49] Speaker 2: What challenges it?
[37:51] Speaker 3: Challenges what?
[37:53] Speaker 2: The list itself. Like, where's the panel that we all
[37:57] Speaker 2: have a discussion? Like, we all know right now, if
[37:59] Speaker 2: we sat here and said, all right, name the top
[38:01] Speaker 2: five players in history, that's going to take a minute. Yeah. Right?
[38:06] Speaker 2: And because, you know, you're going to have information on
[38:09] Speaker 2: somebody that I don't have. So I got to look
[38:11] Speaker 2: at the information you have.
[38:12] Speaker 3: Right.
[38:12] Speaker 2: So it's going to be a while before we can. OK,
[38:15] Speaker 2: this is this is it. Right.
[38:16] Speaker 4: Then I can just I can just fill out my
[38:18] Speaker 4: paperwork and then turn the shit in.
[38:20] Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't.
[38:22] Speaker 4: You know, it's like it's weird because now if I
[38:26] Speaker 4: if I do like this person better.
[38:29] Speaker 2: Because I have a better relationship with him.
[38:31] Speaker 4: I'm going to call my buddy, hey, hey, who you
[38:33] Speaker 4: got over there?
[38:34] Speaker 2: Ah, you know, I'm thinking. He's an asshole.
[38:36] Speaker 6: You know what I mean?
[38:36] Speaker 2: He's an asshole.
[38:37] Speaker 3: Don't vote for him.
[38:37] Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
[38:38] Speaker 8: I think he's padding his stats, you know, rebounding and,
[38:41] Speaker 8: you know, I don't think we should, you know, it's,
[38:43] Speaker 8: I'm just trying to figure out, like, what is the
[38:45] Speaker 8: best solution to get as, as close to it as possible.
[38:51] Speaker 3: Yeah, as equitable as possible. And I think it's a combination.
[38:53] Speaker 3: If you want to do media, combination players, fans, I
[38:56] Speaker 3: don't know what, you know, you bring the fans into
[38:57] Speaker 3: it or not, but, I just think the players always
[38:59] Speaker 3: felt like the players should have some kind of involvement.
[39:02] Speaker 3: Most players are haters, too, though.
[39:04] Speaker 2: Yeah. star players stars y'all think y'all better than each other.
[39:10] Speaker 7: But you kind of know don't you if you're looking
[39:15] Speaker 7: at nash you're looking at kobe you're looking at 32
[39:19] Speaker 7: a game for kobe looking at nash and you played
[39:21] Speaker 7: against him I think you kind of know.
[39:24] Speaker 2: Yeah. That's what I just said.
[39:27] Speaker 4: It's a weird thing because when you look at the
[39:30] Speaker 4: list and people hold so much value on championships and
[39:35] Speaker 4: I'm like, can you please just stop? There's more to
[39:39] Speaker 4: this than what you think. Because if you're talking about
[39:42] Speaker 4: top 75 and then you got a bunch of people
[39:44] Speaker 4: that got five, four, six championships, not even close to it,
[39:47] Speaker 4: and then you got people that's in it that don't
[39:48] Speaker 4: have nothing.
[39:49] Speaker 2: So obviously that's not the first metric.
[39:52] Speaker 4: Of these lists because there's something that holds it first,
[39:55] Speaker 4: the championships hold it second.
[39:57] Speaker 2: For the top 20, I think championships. You think so? Yeah,
[40:01] Speaker 2: for sure.
[40:02] Speaker 4: All right, who's the second best power forward.
[40:09] Speaker 2: In NBA history? And tell me how many championships he has.
[40:12] Speaker 2: Carl Malone. Zero. He's not in the top 10. You
[40:17] Speaker 2: said top 20. He's not in that. That's it. Is
[40:24] Speaker 2: Carl Malone a top 20 player in NBA history? Where
[40:27] Speaker 2: did it happen? Look how you have to think. I'm
[40:28] Speaker 2: just saying, where did he have him at this moment
[40:30] Speaker 2: in time? Remember, he ain't won a championship in years.
[40:32] Speaker 3: Yeah, that'd be interesting.
[40:33] Speaker 2: Thank you. He ain't been a champ. What I'm saying
[40:35] Speaker 2: is he ain't won a championship in years. So Curry's
[40:38] Speaker 2: moved into that spot, moved him out. Dirk Nowinski then
[40:41] Speaker 2: was a... But Dirk Nowinski's sitting right in front of him.
[40:45] Speaker 2: Remember we just said he is the second best. There's
[40:47] Speaker 2: only one in front of him. Second best what? Power forward.
[40:50] Speaker 2: Power forward of all time. No one ever talks about
[40:54] Speaker 2: Karl Malone, but he stops all ring talk when you
[40:59] Speaker 2: actually think about him. When you talk about Karl.
[41:04] Speaker 4: Malone being second, if I said, name me your top
[41:08] Speaker 4: five shooting guards, there's going to be two people in
[41:10] Speaker 4: your top five that don't have rings.
[41:17] Speaker 2: There's going to be Allen Iverson, And a James Harden
[41:22] Speaker 2: in your top five or top six. So that means
[41:24] Speaker 2: if you put Chris Paul in it, it's going to
[41:25] Speaker 2: be a Chris Paul with no ring. If you put
[41:28] Speaker 2: Westbrook in it, it's going to be a Westbrook with
[41:29] Speaker 2: no ring. So your ring starting conversation gets trumped all
[41:36] Speaker 2: the time. So that means your stats, the body of
[41:38] Speaker 2: your work holds it first.
[41:45] Speaker 6: Well, that's like 12 right there. The body of your
[41:48] Speaker 6: work holds first. You got 12 of them right there.
[41:50] Speaker 2: Remember, Will Chamberlain only has two rings. He's in there, though.
[41:54] Speaker 2: Two rings. He's in there. Two. Well, they got him
[41:58] Speaker 2: at five or six. Why not? It's the body of
[42:01] Speaker 2: work first, man.
[42:03] Speaker 3: Then they would rank Russell ahead of him. Some people would.
[42:06] Speaker 2: Oh, I'm glad you read that. In your time, because
[42:11] Speaker 2: they would have been done. Who was considered the best
[42:15] Speaker 2: player ever at that moment in time?
[42:17] Speaker 3: Probably Wilt.
[42:20] Speaker 2: Probably. But who was your favorite player?
[42:24] Speaker 3: I'm a Dr. J guy from back in the day,
[42:27] Speaker 3: you know.
[42:28] Speaker 2: He's in there.
[42:30] Speaker 3: From the ABA days, watching him when he was 24, 25.
[42:32] Speaker 1: I don't know what you're saying. And a quick question,
[42:36] Speaker 1: and Gil will let you get back to this. When
[42:37] Speaker 1: you look at the ABA and the NBA, what was
[42:40] Speaker 1: like the feeling and the view towards the NBA back
[42:42] Speaker 1: at those points? Were they on the same level as
[42:44] Speaker 1: the NBA guys were held in higher regard?
[42:46] Speaker 2: With the ABA? With a faster pace like you guys?
[42:49] Speaker 3: Well, what happened when the two leagues would have interleague competitions,
[42:54] Speaker 3: the ABA was able to more than hold its own
[42:56] Speaker 3: and win a lot of those games. I'm not sure
[42:58] Speaker 3: what the record was, but it wasn't like they were
[42:59] Speaker 3: just trashed in the NBA Celtics against Dr.
[43:02] Speaker 2: Jane Annette.
[43:03] Speaker 3: I mean, the ABA won a large percentage of those games,
[43:05] Speaker 3: especially right before the merger. And so the talent in
[43:09] Speaker 3: the ABA, that's what got the respect in terms of
[43:11] Speaker 3: the overall talent level of the ABA because when you
[43:14] Speaker 3: saw him go head-to-head, it's like, okay, this is a
[43:16] Speaker 3: competitive league. These guys are better than what we thought
[43:18] Speaker 3: they were.
[43:19] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[43:21] Speaker 1: I remember I was watching a video of Bubba Smith
[43:25] Speaker 1: from the Raiders. We were talking about Super Bowl way
[43:27] Speaker 1: back in the day when the Leagues were trying to merge.
[43:29] Speaker 1: The game was rigged because the NFL was basically trying.
[43:31] Speaker 3: To The net, the Joe Namath game there.
[43:34] Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[43:36] Speaker 3: Jets game, yes.
[43:37] Speaker 2: Was it just Jets Raiders or no, Colts or something? Colts.
[43:40] Speaker 3: Colts, Jets, Colts, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[43:42] Speaker 1: But I look at like the ABA and what that
[43:44] Speaker 1: league was, but the way y'all looked at Dr. J,
[43:47] Speaker 1: who went that route before coming to the league, obviously
[43:49] Speaker 1: a little bit older at that point.
[43:50] Speaker 2: Right. Once he started playing in the league.
[43:51] Speaker 3: A lot of guys were jumping back and forth, Rick Berry.
[43:53] Speaker 2: George Gervin, I mean, you know.
[43:54] Speaker 3: A lot of guys were jumping back and forth, too.
[43:56] Speaker 3: NBA guys jumped into the ABA and all that.
[44:00] Speaker 2: What do you do with those stats?
[44:02] Speaker 3: The ABA stats.
[44:04] Speaker 2: Like, are you one of those that just just merge
[44:06] Speaker 2: them all together or?
[44:08] Speaker 3: Because then I think Dr. J would move up considerably
[44:10] Speaker 3: in terms.
[44:11] Speaker 2: Oh, man.
[44:14] Speaker 3: I think you got to count, man. I just I
[44:16] Speaker 3: think you got to count. I mean, if you can
[44:17] Speaker 3: count this, but if you can count Sadaharu Oh as
[44:22] Speaker 3: being the all time home run leader. over Henry Aaron
[44:25] Speaker 3: from the Japanese Lee. This is Japanese Lee. And they
[44:28] Speaker 3: would say he's, he's, you'd read different record books or whatever.
[44:32] Speaker 3: And they got him listed as number one over Henry.
[44:34] Speaker 3: And he had like maybe 800 Henry Andrew hit seven, whatever, 20, 30,
[44:38] Speaker 3: whatever it was, you know, that to me was a joke. Uh,
[44:42] Speaker 3: they even compared it to. So, uh, I think because
[44:45] Speaker 3: of that, I think, you know, the ABA, I was
[44:48] Speaker 3: at the, um, ABA finals in 1976 while I was
[44:51] Speaker 3: at UCLA, uh, It was Denver against the New York Nets, Dr.
[44:57] Speaker 3: J and Larry Keenan and that crew against David Thompson
[45:00] Speaker 3: and Bobby Jones and Dan Issel. And it was the
[45:03] Speaker 3: greatest kind of aerial show that I'd ever seen in
[45:06] Speaker 3: terms of overall athleticism. Between David Thompson and his 45,
[45:09] Speaker 3: 46-inch bird ducking on people, throwing it down like he was.
[45:14] Speaker 3: And I'd actually was going to jump out of UCLA
[45:17] Speaker 3: right before the merger and sign with Denver. Carl Sheard,
[45:20] Speaker 3: their general manager, Gave me a contract for like, you know,
[45:23] Speaker 3: a million dollars, but spread out over 20 years, 50,000
[45:26] Speaker 3: a year. And I was gone. I was leaving UCLA.
[45:29] Speaker 3: And then Larry Brown told Herb Brown, who was coaching
[45:32] Speaker 3: the Detroit Pistons, his brother, what I was going to
[45:34] Speaker 3: do and how Denver was going to sign me without
[45:36] Speaker 3: going through the draft. Just take me out of college.
[45:38] Speaker 3: Sign me. The merger is about to happen. And the
[45:40] Speaker 3: NBA came up and said, hey, if you do that,
[45:42] Speaker 3: no merger. And so I was pretty much relegated to
[45:45] Speaker 3: going to Detroit, which had like the third pick. And
[45:49] Speaker 3: found out that, you know, I could go back to UCLA,
[45:52] Speaker 3: have another year of eligibility, and they were starting a
[45:54] Speaker 3: wooden award, and the dunk was coming back, and it
[45:56] Speaker 3: was kind of a perfect storm of events. But, I mean,
[45:59] Speaker 3: the ABA was, I was looking forward to it, man.
[46:01] Speaker 3: Just playing, you know, with that style of play, Larry Brown.
[46:04] Speaker 3: great coach and.
[46:08] Speaker 3: The dunk was banned for 10 years. Kareem scored 56
[46:12] Speaker 3: on USC his sophomore year. First game against the Trojans,
[46:17] Speaker 3: but a lot of them dunks after his sophomore year,
[46:20] Speaker 3: freshmen weren't eligible. They banned the dunk for 10 years.
[46:25] Speaker 3: Going into my senior year, they bought it back.
[46:28] Speaker 2: But just think about that back in the days where.
[46:30] Speaker 3: Kareem just You had to go over the rim and
[46:33] Speaker 3: just let it go and got to jump over the rim.
[46:35] Speaker 6: I got a question for you, Gil. Can you be
[46:38] Speaker 6: considered the greatest player ever without winning a championship? Can
[46:42] Speaker 6: somebody be considered the greatest player ever without... Today, no.
[46:45] Speaker 2: No. Ever. I'm talking about any day, though. I mean, no,
[46:49] Speaker 2: I mean, not today. I mean, in 89 and 90,
[46:52] Speaker 2: in 1989 and 1990, there was a player by the
[46:55] Speaker 2: name of Michael Jordan. So Michael Jordan never won.
[47:00] Speaker 4: No, I'm just saying. And they were saying this is
[47:02] Speaker 4: the best player that ever walked through the NBA. See,
[47:06] Speaker 4: back then it was called an eye test. I think
[47:08] Speaker 4: you missed what he said. Remember, Bill Russell had 11 rings.
[47:13] Speaker 2: Right? Wilt only had two. Stop, please. Are you listening
[47:17] Speaker 2: to this? I just asked one question. Let's just try
[47:20] Speaker 2: it again. Wilt had two rings. Yeah. Bill Russell had 11.
[47:24] Speaker 2: Who was the best player in the league back then? Right?
[47:30] Speaker 2: When we done changed the rules to move it around,
[47:33] Speaker 2: Bill Russell moves up because of the 11 rings. But
[47:35] Speaker 2: he was never considered any of that. Because it was
[47:39] Speaker 2: the eye test. So in 89 and 90, before ring
[47:43] Speaker 2: culture kicks in, Michael Jordan was considered the best player
[47:48] Speaker 2: that ever played in the NBA.
[47:51] Speaker 4: They wanted to give him the crown then. And Magic
[47:54] Speaker 4: was like, whoa, he got to have some hardware. He
[47:57] Speaker 4: got to have hardware.
[47:59] Speaker 2: You can't just give a man a crown without the hardware.
[48:01] Speaker 2: So the NBA was like, okay. Come on, Cal. Expansion.
[48:05] Speaker 2: And they did whatever. So when he did win, gave
[48:07] Speaker 2: it to him. Remember, in 1992, he has two rings
[48:14] Speaker 2: going into the Olympics. Magic got five and all that.
[48:20] Speaker 4: He was the best player that ever lived, period. Going
[48:25] Speaker 4: into his third championship, you have Isaiah Thomas on broadcast,
[48:31] Speaker 4: Magic Johnson on broadcast, saying he is the GOAT.
[48:35] Speaker 2: He's the best player that ever lived. Two rings, heading
[48:40] Speaker 2: to his third.
[48:41] Speaker 4: And they're saying, well, I mean, technically he had the
[48:43] Speaker 4: bragging rights over us because he would do something we
[48:46] Speaker 4: didn't do. But no matter what, if he stopped today,
[48:49] Speaker 4: he's the best player that ever walked this planet. Then,
[48:53] Speaker 4: you didn't need the ring to say, I'm better than you.
[48:57] Speaker 6: If he didn't win, I'm saying he had two championships.
[49:01] Speaker 6: But if he stopped then with no rings or nothing.
[49:04] Speaker 2: But what I'm saying is, back then, just like anything.
[49:07] Speaker 2: Would he be Bo Jackson? I don't know. With no rings.
[49:12] Speaker 2: Wouldn't it be Bo Jackson?
[49:13] Speaker 4: Just like anything, you wouldn't know if someone's more talented
[49:16] Speaker 4: than everybody.
[49:17] Speaker 2: We know that a team makes better players makes, you know...
[49:23] Speaker 2: But I'm saying.
[49:25] Speaker 6: Makes for champion.
[49:26] Speaker 2: But we can clearly see.
[49:30] Speaker 4: A player that is way better than everybody else, he
[49:33] Speaker 4: just don't have no help with him.
[49:35] Speaker 2: We know that already.
[49:37] Speaker 3: And that's why I wasn't upset. I was initially. But
[49:41] Speaker 3: Magic changed the narrative. When he came in the league,
[49:43] Speaker 3: then it became about championships. I mean, I know Russell
[49:45] Speaker 3: and the 11 rings and all that, but really the
[49:47] Speaker 3: emphasis was on you weren't a legitimate superstar unless you
[49:52] Speaker 3: had a championship. When Magic came, that narrative changed because
[49:54] Speaker 3: he won a championship as a rookie. The 80s dominated
[49:57] Speaker 3: the era. And so that's why when Kevin Durant after
[50:00] Speaker 3: blowing a 3-1 lead, went and joined Golden State. Initially,
[50:04] Speaker 3: a little bit tripping on it, but then I thought
[50:07] Speaker 3: about it, and he wasn't going to get validated for
[50:10] Speaker 3: his level of greatness until he was on a championship team.
[50:13] Speaker 3: And so what if it's a loaded-ass Golden State team
[50:16] Speaker 3: that just had come back from a 3-1 deficit to
[50:19] Speaker 3: beat them the year before? It's almost like you've got
[50:21] Speaker 3: to do it now in order to just have that
[50:23] Speaker 3: stamp of legitimacy as a player.
[50:24] Speaker 2: You've got to win a championship.
[50:25] Speaker 3: You've got to have a ring.
[50:26] Speaker 2: And that's why nobody ever penalized Jerry West for losing
[50:32] Speaker 2: so much because that wasn't a thought process then.
[50:35] Speaker 4: There was no thought process and you get to there,
[50:37] Speaker 4: you lose, you're a failure. If you're the best player
[50:40] Speaker 4: and you're going up against the best team, the best
[50:42] Speaker 4: team should win. It doesn't stop you from being the
[50:45] Speaker 4: best player, right? There's a team treated like this. Name
[50:53] Speaker 4: Hussein Boat's three teammates.
[50:56] Speaker 2: Who's saying both? Remember, they're the fastest team. What I'm
[51:04] Speaker 2: saying is, remember what I'm saying. They're the fastest team.
[51:08] Speaker 2: Relay team, yeah.
[51:09] Speaker 4: They're the fastest relay team. But you don't know the
[51:11] Speaker 4: other three people.
[51:12] Speaker 2: You know why? Because the one person is the fastest
[51:15] Speaker 2: man by himself. And he wins by himself, too. By himself?
[51:20] Speaker 6: He's winning 200s, he wins 100s, he do all that.
[51:23] Speaker 2: By himself. He don't just do relays, so you can't...
[51:25] Speaker 2: By himself.
[51:26] Speaker 6: But I'm saying, can you be the greatest player without
[51:28] Speaker 6: winning the championship?
[51:29] Speaker 2: Today, no, you can't. No, not today. Not today?
[51:32] Speaker 3: Like I said, when I came in the league, Wilt
[51:34] Speaker 3: was considered. He won two. Russell won 11.
[51:36] Speaker 2: That's just history. That's the history.
[51:41] Speaker 3: They all won eight, nine championships with Russell.
[51:45] Speaker 2: But he won. But listen to what he's saying. The
[51:47] Speaker 2: greatest players win, though. There's a player. You're the greatest.
[51:51] Speaker 2: It's a gang up on the same team, so I
[51:53] Speaker 2: think there's a point.
[51:54] Speaker 4: You're not listening to what he's saying.
[51:57] Speaker 3: Is Robert Ory a Hall of Famer with seven rings?
[52:00] Speaker 2: You sure?
[52:01] Speaker 4: They don't have the appropriate amount of respect for Robert.
[52:05] Speaker 6: But he's not the greatest player. If you're the greatest
[52:08] Speaker 6: in this game, you should win a championship. You should
[52:11] Speaker 6: be able to beat every fucking body in the NBA
[52:14] Speaker 6: and win.
[52:14] Speaker 2: If I'm the greatest, yes. That's what it does. No,
[52:18] Speaker 2: I still have people with me. It don't matter. Look
[52:22] Speaker 2: at the teams LeBron won with.
[52:24] Speaker 6: After he leaves, they're number one. In the draft, lottery.
[52:30] Speaker 6: That's what I'm saying. When you're the greatest, you should
[52:33] Speaker 6: win a championship.
[52:34] Speaker 2: Okay, in 2005, who was the greatest player in the NBA?
[52:39] Speaker 2: Kobe won three times. No, no. Who was the greatest
[52:41] Speaker 2: player in the NBA in 2005? Why didn't he win?
[52:45] Speaker 2: He won already. No, no. So, the greatest stop, win it?
[52:48] Speaker 6: He won a championship with the worst team in the NBA.
[52:52] Speaker 2: Okay, so what I'm saying is.
[52:53] Speaker 6: He won with Shannon Brown, Jordan Fulmer, Mark.
[52:58] Speaker 2: Listen to what I'm saying. Mark Gasol. What I mean,
[53:00] Speaker 2: Paul Gasol. Yes, yes. You won that championship team. What
[53:03] Speaker 2: I'm saying is in 2000. No, he won though. He
[53:05] Speaker 2: won though. Did he win in 2005? He won.
[53:07] Speaker 3: Did they make the playoffs? Did they make the playoffs
[53:09] Speaker 3: in 2005?
[53:09] Speaker 2: In 2005, he is the best player. Why did he win?
[53:12] Speaker 2: In 2006, if he's the best player, why did he win?
[53:14] Speaker 2: He had three championships. What happens? Paul Gasol. Better players
[53:18] Speaker 2: come on the team. Paul Gasol, Trevor Rose. To help him.
[53:22] Speaker 4: But the best player being the best player doesn't change.
[53:26] Speaker 4: What changes the best player to help him win is adding.
[53:30] Speaker 2: Other players to make the team better. He's the best player. Yes,
[53:34] Speaker 2: I know he was the best player.
[53:35] Speaker 4: So what you're saying is why didn't he win it
[53:39] Speaker 4: when he was still the best player in 05, 06, 07?
[53:41] Speaker 3: I don't think he made the playoffs in 05.
[53:43] Speaker 2: I know. They were like 38. He had the number
[53:45] Speaker 2: one seed. Who is the best player right now? I mean, 2-1.
[53:50] Speaker 2: Who was the best player last year? In the NBA? Yeah.
[53:55] Speaker 2: The man that won it, Bronson? Wait, was he the
[53:59] Speaker 2: best player before the championship or after? After and before.
[54:04] Speaker 6: Because he went through every team that the other best
[54:07] Speaker 6: players you think can win.
[54:08] Speaker 4: No, I'm just saying who's the best player. So whoever
[54:12] Speaker 4: you name the best player right now got to win
[54:14] Speaker 4: a championship is what you're saying.
[54:16] Speaker 2: Or he won't be the best player. No, no.
[54:17] Speaker 6: The best player, I'm saying the best player in the
[54:19] Speaker 6: world eventually wins a championship.
[54:21] Speaker 2: Eventually. You can't be the best player without winning a championship.
[54:24] Speaker 4: But usually the best player usually brings people. You try
[54:28] Speaker 4: to build around the best player. You're trying to build
[54:31] Speaker 4: around that person. This person is gifted, and I got
[54:34] Speaker 4: to try to, someone else is trying to figure out,
[54:37] Speaker 4: because what ends up happening is, because there's no rules
[54:42] Speaker 4: on how you're supposed.
[54:44] Speaker 2: To have the perfect career, right? Now, I come into
[54:50] Speaker 2: the league, I get drafted.
[54:52] Speaker 4: Remember, if you are a high-level player and you are
[54:57] Speaker 4: considered that guy, That guy is going to a bottom-feeding team.
[55:03] Speaker 2: Yeah. Right? So you're starting off your career at a
[55:07] Speaker 2: bottom feeder. Struggling. Struggling, right? So right now, you're just
[55:10] Speaker 2: going to have the numbers. Like Jordan. Yeah, just like
[55:13] Speaker 2: Michael Jordan. So how Michael Jordan started his career is
[55:15] Speaker 2: how it's supposed to happen. Did he win any MVPs then? Yeah,
[55:18] Speaker 2: he won an MVP being a loser. He averaged 36
[55:21] Speaker 2: being a loser.
[55:21] Speaker 4: He destroyed the league being a loser, and he was
[55:25] Speaker 4: getting credit for it.
[55:28] Speaker 2: Year by year, they're building. Year by year, they're building.
[55:31] Speaker 2: When Pitman came, right? Yeah, he was a piece that
[55:35] Speaker 2: they added. Karl Malone got rid of his friends, bring
[55:39] Speaker 2: this person in, got rid of that. And so they
[55:41] Speaker 2: found the perfect.
[55:41] Speaker 4: Combination for this talent for him to be a champion.
[55:46] Speaker 4: There's a few people that get a lot of credit
[55:49] Speaker 4: because they won Ernie.
[55:50] Speaker 2: Magic Johnson. Right? You have Kareem. You have an MVP.
[55:54] Speaker 2: You're the number one pick. God damn. Right? You go there.
[55:57] Speaker 2: They win a championship. Guess what? They get the number
[56:00] Speaker 2: one pick again. God damn. So now you got three
[56:02] Speaker 2: number one picks on the same team. You're winning championships. Right?
[56:08] Speaker 2: Happens for Tim Duncan. He's on an elite team. He's
[56:11] Speaker 2: on an elite team. They have a whole bad year.
[56:13] Speaker 2: David Robinson. David Robinson. They... Back then it was called take-in.
[56:18] Speaker 2: They just stopped playing. They get the number one pick.
[56:21] Speaker 4: You add the best player with a team that won
[56:23] Speaker 4: 50-something games, champions.
[56:25] Speaker 2: Right?
[56:26] Speaker 4: So it usually happens, rarely happens, but it ends up happening.
[56:30] Speaker 4: It's just like Golden State being a dominant team.
[56:33] Speaker 2: Everybody's hurt.
[56:33] Speaker 4: They end up getting the number two pick. It wasn't
[56:36] Speaker 4: Ant-Man or LaMelo. But now imagine if that team did
[56:39] Speaker 4: get one of those two. We're talking about a whole
[56:43] Speaker 4: different Golden State team.
[56:46] Speaker 2: Right. So the better players go to the worst teams. Right.
[56:53] Speaker 4: And then what ends up happening after that is there's
[56:56] Speaker 4: there's somebody who's supposed to build it on your talent
[56:59] Speaker 4: because you can only play in practice.
[57:02] Speaker 2: With what you have.
[57:04] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[57:04] Speaker 4: Now, if you take and do what LeBron did and say, well,
[57:08] Speaker 4: you know what?
[57:08] Speaker 2: This nigga up here is dumb. I can GM better.
[57:13] Speaker 2: I'm going to GM. Hey, Dwayne, you want to play? Hey, what?
[57:15] Speaker 2: And then you do that and they say, wait, hold on.
[57:18] Speaker 2: You can't do that. Penalize. Those don't count. You're going
[57:22] Speaker 2: to get penalized. You left. You left and teamed up.
[57:25] Speaker 3: Built a team. Built a super team.
[57:26] Speaker 2: Okay, we can't do that. All right. Kevin Durant is like,
[57:29] Speaker 2: all right. Okay, I have everything in the book and
[57:33] Speaker 2: I'm trying to be great. What do I do? I
[57:35] Speaker 2: got two teams I can go to. Cleveland. Golden State.
[57:38] Speaker 2: Golden State called me first. I'm going here. I won. Well,
[57:41] Speaker 2: you can't do that. You can't team up with the
[57:43] Speaker 2: team that beat you. That's against the rules. When the
[57:46] Speaker 2: fuck did I know that was a rule? Yeah, it's
[57:48] Speaker 2: a rule now. You team up with the team that
[57:51] Speaker 2: beat you. Boom.
[57:53] Speaker 3: It's against 22 because you can't consider great if you
[57:56] Speaker 3: don't win the championship.
[57:57] Speaker 2: So, yeah. Yeah, so now you have all these secret doors. So, now,
[58:01] Speaker 2: right now, there's a team that it's so confusing to
[58:05] Speaker 2: think about it. Philadelphia, right? Yeah.
[58:08] Speaker 4: If Philadelphia wins, the championship for LeBron James don't count.
[58:12] Speaker 2: Yes, it do.
[58:13] Speaker 4: It don't count as a full championship because he chasing
[58:16] Speaker 4: the ring.
[58:16] Speaker 2: No. But for Embiid, Embiid gets the ring because it's
[58:20] Speaker 2: his hometown. So now he gets the same credit. It's LeBron's.
[58:24] Speaker 4: What I'm saying is it's his same credit. He gets
[58:26] Speaker 4: the same credit as a Jokic for that ring because
[58:30] Speaker 4: he stayed home.
[58:31] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[58:31] Speaker 4: Jalen Brown, because he got traded. It counts for him normal, right?
[58:37] Speaker 2: So you see how you have these weird things. Giannis,
[58:39] Speaker 2: if he wins a ring over there, even though he
[58:42] Speaker 2: teamed up with better players, but because he got traded there,
[58:46] Speaker 2: it counts normally.
[58:49] Speaker 6: So you have a bunch of rules. Does Steph win
[58:52] Speaker 6: without KD too? Without a super team?
[58:55] Speaker 2: Yes. Okay.
[58:57] Speaker 4: But there's two rings. I will give him a second.
[59:00] Speaker 4: Does two rings get him closer to Magic Johnson? Or
[59:03] Speaker 4: do four rings get him closer to Magic Johnson?
[59:07] Speaker 2: You see the difference?
[59:08] Speaker 6: Win without him yes okay that's all I'm saying but
[59:12] Speaker 6: that's but that's.
[59:13] Speaker 2: Not what I'm saying I'm saying prove.
[59:15] Speaker 6: He can win without KD yes but we're not asking
[59:18] Speaker 6: if you're proving the thing is four that's.
[59:21] Speaker 2: What great players do though that's what I'm saying four
[59:24] Speaker 2: rings puts him in a different category. Did Kobe prove
[59:27] Speaker 2: he can win without Shaq? That's what great players do.
[59:30] Speaker 2: The greatest.
[59:31] Speaker 6: What conversation are you having? That's what I'm saying. You
[59:34] Speaker 6: can't be considered. You trying to make all these pieces
[59:38] Speaker 6: why the championship shouldn't fucking count for nothing.
[59:41] Speaker 4: No, it counts now your argument now That's the fucking
[59:44] Speaker 4: thing LeBron James and Kevin Durant thought that I thought
[59:48] Speaker 4: that these rings count and then when I go get
[59:51] Speaker 4: the bitch Then yeah, why don't they count because Jordan
[59:54] Speaker 4: got six championships?
[59:57] Speaker 2: That's why I don't count You get six or more.
[1:00:00] Speaker 2: You can't be considered better than that man, right? Because
[1:00:02] Speaker 2: that man got sick That's the reason.
[1:00:10] Speaker 6: Oh, he got six MVP.
[1:00:13] Speaker 2: Are you having the same conversation?
[1:00:14] Speaker 6: I'm having the same conversation as you. You're making up
[1:00:17] Speaker 6: all kinds of stuff about champions that it shouldn't matter.
[1:00:21] Speaker 6: James Harden should be the best player in the world.
[1:00:25] Speaker 2: Nobody thought that. You grow up thinking that championships... I
[1:00:28] Speaker 2: never thought that. That championships matter? Yes, I grew up
[1:00:32] Speaker 2: thinking that. Okay, then shut the fuck up then. This
[1:00:34] Speaker 2: is what I'm saying.
[1:00:34] Speaker 4: I'm saying we're growing up, training, saying championships matter. That's
[1:00:39] Speaker 4: all that matters is championships.
[1:00:41] Speaker 2: So if my legacy is built on championships and I'm
[1:00:44] Speaker 2: in a team that does not understand winning because I
[1:00:48] Speaker 2: got drafted here, so I'm getting drafted to a loser,
[1:00:51] Speaker 2: a winning player, a winner in life. college player of
[1:00:56] Speaker 2: the year. All of this, they get drafted to a
[1:00:58] Speaker 2: bottom-feeding team, right?
[1:01:00] Speaker 4: So if this team don't know how to win, this
[1:01:02] Speaker 4: player has to try to figure it out. So a
[1:01:05] Speaker 4: player like LeBron says, hey, I have all these accolades.
[1:01:08] Speaker 4: I need to go win. I can't get nobody in Cleveland.
[1:01:11] Speaker 4: I go team up to win a championship.
[1:01:15] Speaker 2: I win it.
[1:01:16] Speaker 4: I win finals MVP two times. Am I a champion now?
[1:01:22] Speaker 4: Am I considered one?
[1:01:23] Speaker 2: No. You teamed up with us. You got a super team. Now,
[1:01:27] Speaker 2: I have a mark of super teaming on my resume.
[1:01:30] Speaker 2: Same thing with Kevin Durant. Kevin Durant is looking at
[1:01:33] Speaker 2: the same thing. My legacy is built on championships.
[1:01:38] Speaker 6: But LeBron won in Cleveland and run with the Lakers.
[1:01:40] Speaker 6: That team number... But again.
[1:01:45] Speaker 2: He won.
[1:01:46] Speaker 4: I thought championships matter no matter.
[1:01:48] Speaker 2: So do I have four real ones? Yes. Do I
[1:01:51] Speaker 2: have four real ones or do I have one real
[1:01:54] Speaker 2: one because it's back in Cleveland? This one seems better
[1:01:57] Speaker 2: because you're giving me more credit for this one. I
[1:02:00] Speaker 2: won everywhere I went. That's what he's saying. He is.
[1:02:05] Speaker 4: That's what he's saying, but he's arguing that. I thought
[1:02:08] Speaker 4: it was just, it's supposed to be known that.
[1:02:11] Speaker 2: Same thing with Kevin Durant.
[1:02:12] Speaker 4: Why are we knocking Kevin Durant? I thought it was
[1:02:15] Speaker 4: about when the players are finding out in real time
[1:02:19] Speaker 4: that now they're.
[1:02:20] Speaker 2: There's these rules that are... And the rules are... Why
[1:02:23] Speaker 2: did you say... And the rules.
[1:02:26] Speaker 4: Are, I have to win the championship where I got
[1:02:31] Speaker 4: drafted to be considered.
[1:02:34] Speaker 2: Come along with the latest. A pure champion. Yeah. Right?
[1:02:37] Speaker 2: Come along with the latest. Anything other than that, if
[1:02:39] Speaker 2: I make a phone call to bring somebody over here,
[1:02:42] Speaker 2: that's it.
[1:02:43] Speaker 3: Out of the go conversation.
[1:02:44] Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm out of the go conversation. You are. You
[1:02:46] Speaker 2: fucking trash. You can't win. If I go. Win some shit.
[1:02:49] Speaker 2: If I go to the. Win, motherfucker. Damn it.
[1:02:51] Speaker 3: Consider you some.
[1:02:52] Speaker 2: But if you got a ceiling. Yeah. Yeah, you got
[1:02:55] Speaker 2: a ceiling. You stuck in the first round. You can't
[1:02:58] Speaker 2: get out the first round.
[1:02:59] Speaker 4: If I go to the Western Conference Finals or the
[1:03:03] Speaker 4: Eastern Conference Finals and lose every year, I don't get penalized.
[1:03:07] Speaker 4: I only get penalized if I lose in the championship, right?
[1:03:11] Speaker 4: Because if I get there and I'm like, you know what?
[1:03:14] Speaker 4: This team ain't good enough to beat that team. Let
[1:03:15] Speaker 4: me just go ahead and lose this series.
[1:03:17] Speaker 2: Even the first round. And I don't get a knock
[1:03:19] Speaker 2: for it. Because I only get a knock in the championship,
[1:03:22] Speaker 2: no matter what age I am. So, Wimby, you can't
[1:03:24] Speaker 2: be the GOAT because you already lost to the championship
[1:03:27] Speaker 2: and the motherfucker who holds the title 6-0. So, 7-1,
[1:03:30] Speaker 2: that ain't perfect. So, Jalen Brunson can be the GOAT.
[1:03:33] Speaker 2: Jalen Brunson can still be the GOAT, right? Amen, amen.
[1:03:36] Speaker 2: No matter how much you lose it right now, your
[1:03:38] Speaker 2: ticker ain't started yet for the argument, right? And that's...
[1:03:43] Speaker 2: It's just these weird rules that people are just moving
[1:03:46] Speaker 2: that didn't exist when you played, right? They didn't exist! Duh,
[1:03:50] Speaker 2: nobody existed when they played. Duh, like, what are you saying? Like,
[1:03:55] Speaker 2: come on.
[1:03:56] Speaker 3: Pick up Kevin McHale, pick up Robert Parrish.
[1:03:58] Speaker 2: Thank you, Robert Parrish.
[1:04:00] Speaker 3: The Sixers, when they were dominant in 1983, they pick
[1:04:03] Speaker 3: up Moses Malone.
[1:04:03] Speaker 2: Like, think about what he's saying.
[1:04:05] Speaker 3: It puts them over the hump.
[1:04:06] Speaker 2: You know the game evolves. He said, come on now.
[1:04:09] Speaker 2: What he's saying is some of these people's legacy is
[1:04:11] Speaker 2: built off more, they got the most Hall of Famers
[1:04:14] Speaker 2: on their team. Yeah.
[1:04:16] Speaker 4: There's people that came off the bench that's in the
[1:04:20] Speaker 4: Hall of Fame.
[1:04:21] Speaker 2: Because back then, they can just grab everybody. I can
[1:04:23] Speaker 2: just grab.
[1:04:24] Speaker 3: Bill Walton left the Rippers to go to the Celtics.
[1:04:26] Speaker 2: Got sixth man of the year. Got an NBA champion.
[1:04:28] Speaker 2: There's a lot of teams like that.
[1:04:30] Speaker 6: The Warriors have five, four of the famous.
[1:04:32] Speaker 4: But you don't get penalized. You didn't get penalized for
[1:04:35] Speaker 4: your legacy back then.
[1:04:36] Speaker 3: Now you do.
[1:04:38] Speaker 2: Everything that's happening right now... You're not ring chasing. You're
[1:04:40] Speaker 2: not ring chasing. That wasn't a thing now.
[1:04:43] Speaker 4: So basically, what's happening is because somebody put these invisible
[1:04:47] Speaker 4: rules in... Everyone's legacy is being scarred and compared to
[1:04:52] Speaker 4: the past.
[1:04:52] Speaker 2: In the past, they didn't go through that scrutiny, so
[1:04:55] Speaker 2: no one even knows that they did the same thing.
[1:04:56] Speaker 6: But the past gets scarred, too, because they don't consider
[1:04:59] Speaker 6: the goat. They don't be in the goat conversation. So
[1:05:01] Speaker 6: you can't put them in there.
[1:05:02] Speaker 2: There was no goat conversation. You don't put Bill Russell
[1:05:05] Speaker 2: in there in 112, right? So why are you even
[1:05:07] Speaker 2: bringing that up? Let's try to see, because you're not listening. Sir.
[1:05:12] Speaker 2: When you came into the league, Bill Russell had 11 rings, right?
[1:05:15] Speaker 3: Yes, he did.
[1:05:15] Speaker 2: 11 rings? And you had Wilt. Wilt had two. Who
[1:05:17] Speaker 2: was the GOAT? Wilt. Oh, okay. Okay.
[1:05:20] Speaker 4: So that means the other nine didn't even mean shit.
[1:05:23] Speaker 6: So why are you even bringing the Celtics up if
[1:05:25] Speaker 6: Wilt was the GOAT?
[1:05:26] Speaker 2: Why, he won. What are you saying?
[1:05:27] Speaker 6: You can't be considered the GOAT if you don't win.
[1:05:30] Speaker 6: You're just making losers that score the ball. That's all
[1:05:33] Speaker 6: you are, a loser that can score.
[1:05:35] Speaker 2: That's all you are.
[1:05:36] Speaker 3: The second one is 72. Jerry West and Elgin Baylor
[1:05:39] Speaker 3: or Gail Goodrich.
[1:05:40] Speaker 2: Somebody got a score on the loser team. So he
[1:05:41] Speaker 2: won once he got what?
[1:05:43] Speaker 3: With the better team?
[1:05:44] Speaker 2: When he got with the better team. Yeah, so he
[1:05:46] Speaker 2: didn't win by himself. He went to another team that
[1:05:49] Speaker 2: had another bunch of Hall of Famers to beat a
[1:05:51] Speaker 2: bunch of another Hall of Famers. See, back then, there
[1:05:53] Speaker 2: was two teams. It was one team that beat everybody.
[1:05:56] Speaker 2: Then he had to join forces with another bunch of
[1:05:58] Speaker 2: Hall of Famers to try to beat them. Right? Because
[1:06:01] Speaker 2: the team he had as a rookie, he had to
[1:06:03] Speaker 2: average 37 and 27. He won. He had the average.
[1:06:09] Speaker 2: I'm sorry. He won. I'm going to just go. He won.
[1:06:13] Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure. I'm pretty sure. And I know history
[1:06:16] Speaker 2: don't want to tell you this. He won.
[1:06:18] Speaker 4: What I'm saying is, no, no, eventually. But I'm pretty sure.
[1:06:20] Speaker 4: Let me just do this for you real quick. It's simple.
[1:06:26] Speaker 2: You know what? Because, you know, I wasn't born back then.
[1:06:28] Speaker 2: How much Cam Thomas scored? I wasn't born back then.
[1:06:31] Speaker 2: Thank you. He averaged 30, right? He was on a
[1:06:34] Speaker 2: losing team. I wasn't born then. Everybody got a score.
[1:06:37] Speaker 4: But I'm pretty sure in 1959, 1960, there was a
[1:06:41] Speaker 4: rookie who run.
[1:06:43] Speaker 2: Oh, he won the MVP. A rookie won the MVP,
[1:06:46] Speaker 2: the rookie of the year.
[1:06:48] Speaker 4: And he averaged 37.627 rebounds a game.
[1:06:52] Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure he was the best player that ever played.
[1:06:56] Speaker 4: If that was the GOAT thing, then he got it.
[1:06:59] Speaker 4: The next year, 38-27. The next year, 50-27.
[1:07:03] Speaker 2: He was the greatest man that ever walked the planet
[1:07:07] Speaker 2: at this moment in time. Luka does that all the time.
[1:07:09] Speaker 2: He don't believe it. When did he finish?
[1:07:10] Speaker 3: He voted when he averaged 50. I think he was
[1:07:12] Speaker 3: third or fourth.
[1:07:12] Speaker 2: Second. He was second?
[1:07:13] Speaker 3: Okay.
[1:07:14] Speaker 2: Second.
[1:07:14] Speaker 3: I know one of those years he was like behind
[1:07:16] Speaker 3: Johnny Kerr.
[1:07:18] Speaker 2: 44. Which is quite impressive considering the times. So he
[1:07:22] Speaker 2: didn't have no ring at this time. And I can
[1:07:24] Speaker 2: predict that.
[1:07:25] Speaker 6: He was the best player that ever won.
[1:07:28] Speaker 2: Are you listening, sir?
[1:07:30] Speaker 6: But Luka Duda, is he the best player in the league, though?
[1:07:33] Speaker 6: But you just said stats. Lucas, do that now. Is
[1:07:36] Speaker 6: he the best player in the league? I'm saying the
[1:07:39] Speaker 6: rules has changed. You said, can there be a best
[1:07:42] Speaker 6: player in the league?
[1:07:43] Speaker 2: That don't score. That ain't one. Before they changed the
[1:07:46] Speaker 2: identity of what it meant to be great. Here is
[1:07:50] Speaker 2: what it is.
[1:07:51] Speaker 4: When he came into the league as a rookie and
[1:07:54] Speaker 4: he won MVP and he dominated everybody, there was no
[1:07:57] Speaker 4: question of who the best player that ever walked into
[1:08:00] Speaker 4: the NBA was.
[1:08:01] Speaker 3: Without a championship.
[1:08:02] Speaker 2: With no championship. He was the greatest player that ever lived.
[1:08:06] Speaker 2: He trumped whoever had rings then. Yeah. Sir, we wasn't alive.
[1:08:10] Speaker 2: Did he win? But the change did. Did he win?
[1:08:13] Speaker 2: He was already the best before he won.
[1:08:15] Speaker 6: If he just had them stats and never won, he's
[1:08:17] Speaker 6: not considered nothing to me.
[1:08:19] Speaker 2: To you. To everybody. James Harden did that.
[1:08:23] Speaker 6: He averaged 39, then 37 triple doubles.
[1:08:26] Speaker 2: What are you saying? I got what you said. To you. Westbrook,
[1:08:29] Speaker 2: to everybody. Hey, hey, to you. To Karl Malone. To, um,
[1:08:33] Speaker 2: that's why he went to the Lakers. To, um, Gary Payton.
[1:08:36] Speaker 2: To everybody. That's why you go chase the ring. 59
[1:08:38] Speaker 2: and 60. KD. Okay, 1959 and 1960. Whoever everyone was then,
[1:08:40] Speaker 2: they voted. This is losing conversation. They voted. Best player.
[1:08:50] Speaker 2: Loser conversation. 61, best player. 62, best player. 63, best player.
[1:08:54] Speaker 6: That's what they were voting back then. We're talking about
[1:08:56] Speaker 6: being the greatest and you don't win. That's your argument.
[1:08:59] Speaker 2: You win. in life Swag.
[1:09:01] Speaker 6: The argument is you can be the greatest and don't
[1:09:03] Speaker 6: win My argument you gotta be You gotta win to
[1:09:05] Speaker 6: be the greatest.
[1:09:06] Speaker 3: Now you do Now you do Now you do.
[1:09:08] Speaker 6: For sure So back then you considered Not winning but
[1:09:11] Speaker 6: scoring a lot of points You're the greatest Okay.
[1:09:14] Speaker 2: And on that note. Yes, that's what we've been talking about.
[1:09:16] Speaker 2: That's what they did. On that note. That's what they did. Yes.
[1:09:19] Speaker 2: And you're mad that they changed that. No, I'm saying.
[1:09:22] Speaker 2: They're saying it.
[1:09:23] Speaker 6: Was a bunch of Lucas back then.
[1:09:25] Speaker 2: Okay.
[1:09:25] Speaker 4: I'm saying the history has changed. And this history list
[1:09:31] Speaker 4: is off of metrics.
[1:09:32] Speaker 6: So you're mad you got to be a winner to
[1:09:34] Speaker 6: be the greatest.
[1:09:35] Speaker 2: I get it. Mad?
[1:09:36] Speaker 6: What?
[1:09:37] Speaker 2: I get it.
[1:09:38] Speaker 1: On that note, a great place for us to wrap
[1:09:41] Speaker 1: up for the week. Before we go, before we go
[1:09:44] Speaker 1: this week, I just want to say thank you to
[1:09:45] Speaker 1: everybody for supporting the show. This was the best week.
[1:09:49] Speaker 1: in Gil's Arena history. Most viewed week in Gil's Arena history.
[1:09:55] Speaker 1: Season five. Shout out to Polly Market. Shout out to Playmaker.
[1:09:59] Speaker 1: Everyone else cutting the check. Everyone watching this show taking
[1:10:03] Speaker 1: time out of your busy schedule.
[1:10:04] Speaker 2: I don't know. Gil, you got to fix your smoke machine.
[1:10:06] Speaker 2: Can you give me this, please? Okay. I didn't want
[1:10:08] Speaker 2: to see your smoke. No, you don't put the smoke in. Oh,
[1:10:10] Speaker 2: you wait. Don't put it in your face, Gil. Put
[1:10:13] Speaker 2: it towards me? Smoke is swaggy. Appreciate you. To my pops,
[1:10:19] Speaker 2: Marcus Johnson, for pulling up to the show. The Crenshaw Chronicles.
[1:10:23] Speaker 1: The Crenshaw Chronicles available on Amazon right now. Great read
[1:10:26] Speaker 1: for everybody who loves Crenshaw and wants to know. The
[1:10:28] Speaker 1: Crenshaw Chronicles.
[1:10:29] Speaker 2: 57th College. I'm sure. Shout out to.
[1:10:35] Speaker 1: He wasn't the best player, though. Shout out to everybody
[1:10:37] Speaker 1: on this couch. Our first Friday as part of Season
[1:10:40] Speaker 1: 5 at Gills Arena. We'll be on every Friday, pretty
[1:10:42] Speaker 1: much all season long, barring holidays. We are still negotiating, discussing,
[1:10:45] Speaker 1: but we'll be back with another... You just posted this?
[1:10:52] Speaker 1: You just posted this?
[1:10:55] Speaker 2: Yes.
[1:10:58] Speaker 4: I'm just saying, I see your post, your last post.
[1:10:59] Speaker 4: You got your back all out in front of the men.
[1:11:01] Speaker 4: You got a little Asian man coming in with his
[1:11:03] Speaker 4: shoes off.
[1:11:04] Speaker 2: You know, we're going to talk.
[1:11:05] Speaker 1: On that note, this has been another episode of Gil's Arena,
[1:11:08] Speaker 1: presented by Polymarker, powered by Playmaker. We will see y'all
[1:11:12] Speaker 1: next week.
[1:11:13] Speaker 2: Woo-woo! Fucked up the woo-woo.

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