# Billionaire CEO Murdered & Stuffed Inside a Suitcase

An episode of [Outlore with Eleanor Neale](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1682504024), 4 Mar 2025, 50 min.

Audio: https://traffic.megaphone.fm/APO8445005961.mp3

Today's episode is on Brazilian Billionaire CEO entrepreneur Marcos Matsunaga, murdered and stuffed inside of a suitcase. But who could have done such an awful thing? For a while police thought it might be a kidnapping and ransom case, but as time went on.. the truth came out. Trigger Warning: domestic violence, abusive relationships Resources: https://linktr.ee/usualdisclaimer Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

## Transcript

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[0:55] lifelock.com/podcast. Billionaire C Marcos Matsunaga's
[1:03] dismembered body was found scattered among fields and
[1:06] Woodlands within just a couple of weeks of him signing his
[1:10] billion dollar deal. So who could be responsible?
[1:13] Had he been kidnapped and was he being held for ransom?
[1:17] Or was it his supposedly gold digging wife that his friends
[1:21] had never liked anywhere? Today we're going to be
[1:23] discussing the case of the billionaire's body found in
[1:27] three. Quickly.
[1:31] Before we get into it, I do just want to give my usual disclaimer
[1:34] that I mean absolutely no disrespect to anyone that I talk
[1:37] about in this video. This video is for educational
[1:40] purposes, and everything that I'm about to say is just
[1:43] information that I have found on the Internet and I'm compiling
[1:46] into one video. There's just a couple of content
[1:48] warnings for this case. Today we're going to be
[1:50] discussing themes of domestic violence and abusive
[1:53] relationships. So if any of that is something
[1:56] that you don't want to hear about right now, I completely
[1:57] understand. Please look after yourself.
[2:00] Hopefully I'll get to see some other point with a different
[2:02] case, but for now, look after yourself.
[2:04] And with all that being said, let's get into the case.
[2:07] So today's case takes place in Brazil in 2013.
[2:12] And correct me if I'm wrong, but I think this could be our first
[2:15] ever Brazilian case. And that is where 48 year old
[2:18] Marcos Matsunaga lived with his wife Elise, who was 38 at the
[2:23] time. So there was a decade between
[2:24] them and they seemed very happy together.
[2:27] They were super, super rich. Marcos was a multi millionaire
[2:31] CEO who was about to become a billionaire CEO.
[2:35] Basically he owned this food company named Yoki and this
[2:39] company, it was like a pantry foods kind of company, you know,
[2:42] like packet foods, you know, like popcorns and crisps and
[2:45] stuff like that. It was like a pantry food
[2:47] company called Yoki that had been passed down his family for
[2:51] a couple of generations now. I believe his grandfather
[2:55] started it and then passed it on to his son, who passed on to his
[2:59] son Marcos. So he's like the heir of this
[3:01] very successful company. He later on in his life sold the
[3:05] company for a billion dollars, which would have made him a
[3:09] billionaire, but he never actually managed to see that
[3:12] billion. He met his wife Elise a little
[3:14] bit later on in life because he actually had another wife before
[3:19] her. He'd actually left his ex-wife
[3:21] for Elise. He'd been cheating on his
[3:24] ex-wife with Elise. He had been cheating on his
[3:27] ex-wife for quite some some time before he'd even met Elise,
[3:30] though it wasn't like Elise came along and and broke up the
[3:33] family. Marcos had already been
[3:36] unfaithful to his ex-wife with a number of women.
[3:38] Elise was just one of those women and he happened to fall
[3:42] for her. And before long he decided that
[3:45] he wanted to divorce his ex-wife and marry Elise.
[3:48] I'm getting a little bit ahead of it there.
[3:50] Let's talk about where they actually met because Marcos did
[3:54] his cheating in a rather interesting because he didn't
[4:00] get a lot of attention from women.
[4:02] His friends said that he was not popular with the ladies, but he
[4:06] did have a lot of urges. I guess he really wanted to
[4:10] cheat on his wife. So in order to do that, he would
[4:14] go online. He would go on like escorting
[4:16] services and literally hire women to cheat on his wife with
[4:21] and that is where he met Elise. Elise was an escort on one of
[4:24] these websites. It was called M class.
[4:28] She put herself on there and that's how the two of them met.
[4:31] At first it was just going to be like a couple of meetings, just
[4:34] a couple of, I don't know, he solicited different women all
[4:38] the time. So it was just going to be like
[4:39] a casual thing. But then he realized he really
[4:42] liked Alizee and wanted something more with her.
[4:45] And like I said, he ended up leaving his ex-wife for her and
[4:49] he married Alizee practically straight away.
[4:52] So who was Alizee Matsenaga? She came from a very troubled
[4:57] background. Her family were in severe
[4:59] poverty and she suffered a lot of sexual abuse at the hands of
[5:04] her stepfather growing up. So a very, very rough childhood.
[5:08] And she had some like really mad awful shit happened to her.
[5:12] Like really random stuff would happen to her quite a lot.
[5:16] So one time she was chased home by a group of boys.
[5:19] Another time she was kidnapped by some men.
[5:22] Like just really awful yet quite random shit just kept happening
[5:27] to her. Stuff that you can't predict or
[5:29] like prevent, you know, like she just got into some really,
[5:33] really bad situations because honestly, the place that she
[5:35] lived, it was quite unsafe. It was like this kind of stuff
[5:39] was happening to a lot of young women where she lived.
[5:42] As she grew up and became a woman, she managed to escape
[5:45] both the dangerous place that she lived and also her abusive
[5:49] household. She moved on with her life, grew
[5:51] into a a wonderful young woman and she started studying to be a
[5:55] nurse. Elisa was known to be a very
[5:58] caring, nurturing, loving, generous person.
[6:03] And so it only made sense to her that when it came to like,
[6:05] choosing a career, she wanted a career in caring for people.
[6:10] And that's when she thought to be a nurse.
[6:11] But it was that kind, nurturing, loving part of her personality
[6:16] that actually turned out to be her downfall within this job.
[6:20] Because Alizee would find herself getting almost too
[6:24] attached to her patients to the point where, like, if they took
[6:28] a turn for the worse or God forbid, died, she would feel
[6:32] that grief and that loss and that pain as much as if it was a
[6:36] member of her own family. This job was hardly sustainable
[6:41] for her. She could not.
[6:43] She couldn't deal with the emotional side of it.
[6:45] She actually always remembered the first time one of her
[6:48] patients died. And she said that that was like
[6:51] a life changing, brain altering moment for her.
[6:55] It was completely earth shattering.
[6:58] Yeah. She quickly realised that she
[7:00] she couldn't do this forever. She couldn't be a nurse forever.
[7:02] And she needed to pick a new career path.
[7:05] And that was when she decided she liked the sound of law, like
[7:09] being a lawyer. So she got into law school.
[7:13] But in order to support herself and pay for her tuition, she
[7:16] started doing this escorting service on the side.
[7:20] She did like anywhere from full prostitution to kind of sugar
[7:25] baby deals where she would go out on dates with men.
[7:29] Often times it was a mixture of the two.
[7:31] They would take her out on a date and then they would go home
[7:34] and have sex. That was kind of the usual
[7:37] package, I guess. And yeah, that's where she met
[7:40] multimillionaire going on billionaire CEO Marcos
[7:44] Matsenaga. Like we said in the beginning,
[7:47] Marcos inherited this company from his father and him from his
[7:51] father. So he came from money.
[7:53] His family had always been very well off, very wealthy.
[7:57] He'd travelled all his life. He had he'd had the best of
[8:01] everything all his life. Proper silver spoon malarkey.
[8:03] You know, the Matsenaga family was one of the rich his families
[8:06] in Brazil at that time. And the Yoki Food Company was
[8:10] like one of the leading pantry foods pantry food companies.
[8:16] I guess whatever the genre of whatever it was, they dominated
[8:20] the market. I know that for sure.
[8:22] And a lot of this progress within the company had happened
[8:27] while Marcos was in charge. He had managed to grow this
[8:30] company way past whatever his father had managed, and his
[8:34] father had managed Marcos that kind of turned Yoki into a
[8:38] household name. It was him that got it in all
[8:40] these different supermarkets up and down the country.
[8:42] Like it was him and his graft and his work that had really
[8:46] helped to expand this company. So, yeah, Marcos was very
[8:49] successful, very rich, very accomplished.
[8:52] But as I said, the only thing that was kind of missing was
[8:57] away with the lady. So he just didn't have that.
[9:00] No matter how much money and success he had.
[9:02] Women were not very interested in Marcos.
[9:06] I don't know what it was. Some people have said he's not
[9:07] very conventionally attractive. I don't really want to comment
[9:10] on people's looks when it's not. It's not related to the case
[9:14] very well. But I mean, his friends kind of
[9:17] said, I don't know. A lot of the attractive women
[9:19] that he would get involved with, they were very suspicious about
[9:22] because they were well out of his league and the only way that
[9:26] he could have really pulled a lot one of them was from money
[9:29] or a really good personality. But his friends were suspicious
[9:32] that a lot of the time it was his money and that these women
[9:35] didn't like him for who he was. But back in the day, before he'd
[9:38] even managed to get this company and the wealth that he had, back
[9:42] when he only had like his family wealth, he was really struggling
[9:45] to get a girl. And then all of a sudden, his
[9:49] ex-wife came into his life. And honestly, this sounds a bit
[9:53] bad, but I think he married her just out of desperation.
[9:57] This was the first woman that had ever shown like a serious
[10:00] interest in him. And so I think he was just like,
[10:02] okay, yeah, I'll will. I'll marry this one.
[10:04] He very quickly realized once he got into this marriage that he
[10:08] wasn't happy. I think he Yeah, he very quickly
[10:11] realized that he'd rushed in and this wasn't the right decision.
[10:14] But rather than getting a divorce and like going out there
[10:17] and finding someone that's actually right for him, Marcos
[10:20] decided to just start just start cheating.
[10:23] Just start cheating on his wife, hiring escorts.
[10:26] And that is where Marcos met the woman that would eventually turn
[10:29] his head, Eliza. So he meets Eliza through the
[10:33] escorting service. And of course he doesn't want to
[10:35] tell his family and friends that that he like met her because he
[10:38] was pain to have sex with her. He wanted to make them think
[10:41] that they'd like met naturally at like a coffee shop or
[10:44] something. So actually he never told anyone
[10:47] how he and Aliza met. He just kind of started
[10:50] introducing everyone to his new girlfriend, Elizi, and just kind
[10:54] of hoped that no one was. You don't ask any questions.
[10:57] And they didn't, to be fair. But eventually they did all find
[11:00] out where he where they'd met. But yeah, when Marcos first
[11:03] introduced all his friends to Elisa, they they were
[11:07] suspicious. She was a very beautiful woman,
[11:11] a lot younger than him, a decade younger than him.
[11:13] She was very conventionally attractive.
[11:16] This woman was like the the stereotype that you have in your
[11:20] head of like a gold digger. You know, that younger woman who
[11:23] was, like trying to make it on her own, doesn't have a lot of
[11:25] money to support herself, Goes for the kind of uglier, rich
[11:30] older man, you know? And his friends saw this dynamic
[11:34] and they were like, has he gone mad?
[11:36] Like, does he not see what's happening here?
[11:38] Honestly, I think Marcos was a little bit insecure of this.
[11:42] I think he didn't want to believe it, but I think there
[11:43] was a part in the back of his head that was kind of telling
[11:46] him that his friends were right. And I think that's why he
[11:49] married Elise so quickly. He put a ring on that fast.
[11:53] I don't think he wanted to risk her leaving him.
[11:55] And so like he moved her into to live with him very quickly
[11:59] before they were even married. He moved her into this massive
[12:03] mansion where he just had so much stuff, right?
[12:07] This guy was obsessed with wine. And through his marriage with
[12:11] Elise, he got her into wine as well.
[12:13] She became a oh, what's the word where they study wine and on
[12:17] onchaeologist. That's definitely not the word.
[12:19] Now I'm embarrassed, but she was a wine ologist, you know, you
[12:23] know, the proper worm worm word. Anyway, the two of them really,
[12:27] really liked wine. They were really into it, so
[12:29] much so that Marcos had like massive Cellars built under
[12:34] their house that has $2,000,000 worth of wine.
[12:38] How are you ever going to drink that much is the question on my
[12:41] mind. He had another room, a secret
[12:43] room by the way, a hidden one that was like disguised in the
[12:46] wall that was just full of guns and ammo, like half $1,000,000
[12:52] worth of guns and ammo. His house was just full of
[12:55] excess and and just some really eccentric things, some really
[13:00] expensive art pieces. You can imagine the kind of
[13:04] stuff that this guy was buying. He was, he was excessive.
[13:07] But the two of them had quite a nice married life, it seems.
[13:11] They went travelling everywhere together.
[13:14] They saw the world, they experienced all kinds of
[13:17] cultures. They enjoyed the finer things in
[13:19] life, good food, good wine. Shortly after getting married,
[13:23] the two of them decided that they wanted a baby together.
[13:25] And so Alizee came off of her contraception and they thought
[13:30] it was going to be as easy as that.
[13:31] You know, just start doing it without the pill and, and you'll
[13:34] catch. But it's not that easy.
[13:36] It's really not that easy for a lot of women.
[13:38] And Elise was one of those, no matter how hard they tried, she
[13:43] couldn't catch pregnant. And so thank God they had all
[13:46] that money they were able to pay to go through several lots of
[13:50] IVF treatment, like lots and lots to make this happen.
[13:54] And finally Elise got pregnant. The two of them welcomed a
[13:58] beautiful baby daughter together.
[14:00] And like I said, they they seemed very, very happy.
[14:03] After a while, Marcus's friends kind of admitted that they were
[14:07] proven wrong. They they thought wrong about
[14:10] this girl. At first.
[14:10] They thought she was just a gold digger using him for his money.
[14:13] But no. The longer that they were
[14:15] together, they were married, they had a daughter together.
[14:17] They seemed to really get on. They had a lot in common.
[14:20] And and that's true, they shared a lot of the same hobbies.
[14:23] Like they enjoyed shooting and and hunting animals, which is a
[14:28] questionable one. But yeah, they used to go out
[14:31] and like shoot wild boar or and stuff together and, and skin
[14:34] them and whatever. They also had a pet snake.
[14:38] And this this was kind of a common theme with all these like
[14:41] more quirky things that they did together as a couple that like
[14:46] Marcos would suggest it to to Elise and she would say yes.
[14:50] And then he would be really surprised.
[14:51] Like, Oh my God, I can't believe I've met a woman that wants to
[14:54] go hunting with me. I can't believe I've met a woman
[14:56] that lets me have a pet snake in the house.
[14:59] And I think I don't, I don't know.
[15:01] I just think this is the first time that Marcos had found a
[15:05] woman who appreciated him for his little quirks as well.
[15:09] Like I I genuinely do think this was a nice relationship, at
[15:12] least in the beginning, at least at this point.
[15:15] But then in late May of 2012, this billionaire pantry food
[15:20] tycoon Marcos Matsunaga disappears.
[15:25] He goes missing and all of this happened right as he was closing
[15:29] that billion dollar deal to sell yucky food company.
[15:33] So police is immediate theory once he is reported missing by
[15:37] his wife Alisa, their immediate theory is that this is probably
[15:42] a kidnapping, It's probably a ransom situation because
[15:45] everyone who is anyone kind of knew that this family was worth
[15:48] a lot of money. Everyone knew that his family
[15:50] was one of the richest in the whole country and that they were
[15:54] closing this really big deal. There's a lot of people that
[15:57] right now would have wanted to harm him or get him out of the
[16:00] way or I don't know, something. There's a lot of people that
[16:03] would have wanted to intercept that deal somehow.
[16:06] So they start asking around everyone in Marcos's life, you
[16:09] know, asking if he's got any enemies or any like rivals,
[16:13] anyone that might want to take him out, anyone that might want
[16:15] anything. And no one could really think of
[16:17] anything, obviously, apart from this billion dollar deal, which,
[16:21] you know, could very well be it. There was no one.
[16:24] There was no like active enemies that that he always had like
[16:28] fights with no one. There was no one in particular
[16:31] that anyone could name anywhere. And it wasn't like this business
[16:34] deal was going sour either. So it's not like the deal itself
[16:38] could have led to this. It wasn't like the other people
[16:41] in the deal were like getting shafted by him or anything like
[16:44] that. Like this deal seemed to be
[16:46] going well. Everything seemed to be going
[16:47] well, so police spoke with his wife, Aliza.
[16:51] They they kind of wanted to get an idea of what his day-to-day
[16:54] life was, what his routine was and what his schedule was like
[16:58] on the day that he went missing. So Aliza told police that on the
[17:02] night that Marcos disappeared, he told her that he was going in
[17:05] for a meeting with one of the buyers, you know, one of the big
[17:08] people that was paying a billion dollars for Yoki.
[17:11] He said that he was going in for a meeting with them that evening
[17:14] and it was probably going to be a really long meeting and it
[17:16] might run on late. So he told her not to wait up
[17:19] for him, you know, just go to bed, just let yourself go to
[17:21] bed. He also said that he had a
[17:22] meeting the next morning super early as well.
[17:26] So he was like, if it runs on that long in the evening, he
[17:29] might even just sleep over at the office so that he's there
[17:32] for his meeting the next day. So Alize wakes up the next day
[17:37] and Marcos is still not home. So she's thinking, OK, he's just
[17:40] done what he said. He did his meeting and then
[17:43] slept over at the office, did his other meeting, but she
[17:46] literally not seen or heard from him since then, since he left
[17:50] the house that evening saying that he was going to work.
[17:53] She'd not seen or heard from him since.
[17:54] And so right now, police are so convinced of the kidnapping
[17:58] ransom theory because he was even at his place of work.
[18:02] But as the days were going on, police were waiting for for a
[18:06] ransom note any minute, but they weren't getting any.
[18:09] They weren't getting any kind of communication from potential
[18:12] abductors. There was no ransom note,
[18:13] nothing. Police were trying everything
[18:15] they could to try and find Marcos themselves.
[18:19] They were hoping that they were going to get some kind of
[18:21] communication and then they could negotiate and get Marcos
[18:24] back that way. But without that, they didn't
[18:27] know how to find him. A couple of days into the
[18:30] search, Elise arrives at her mother and father in law's
[18:34] house. So Marcos's mother and father's
[18:37] house, she had something to tell them, something that she hadn't
[18:41] actually told the police. She told them that Marcos had
[18:45] left her, that he had packed a bag and voluntarily left.
[18:49] Like essentially ran away. He walked out.
[18:52] And so they asked why, why on earth he would do that and Elise
[18:56] said that he was cheating on her again.
[19:00] This was something that he had done multiple times in their
[19:04] relationship. He had cheated on his wife
[19:06] Elisa, and for some reason she had taken him back.
[19:09] He had begged and grovelled the first time that he was caught
[19:13] cheating on someone. And Elisa took him back because
[19:16] she actually found out around the same time that she found out
[19:19] that she was pregnant with their daughter as well.
[19:21] And like I said, it was such a hassle to even get pregnant in
[19:26] the 1st place. They had tried so many rounds of
[19:28] IVF and now they were finally pregnant and she finds out that
[19:32] her husbands been cheating on her.
[19:34] She was of course heartbroken. She really really was.
[19:37] She wanted to leave him. In fact that was her initial
[19:40] plan. And then she found out she was
[19:42] pregnant. And then that was when she
[19:45] decided to forgive him, try and put it behind them.
[19:48] But it was clear that he hadn't put it behind him.
[19:51] And it seemed that he had put it behind him for a while.
[19:55] For the first two years of their daughter's life, he seemed to be
[19:58] loyal again. He seemed to be faithful.
[20:00] He seemed to have like given up his cheating ways.
[20:03] But in the months leading up to his disappearance, Elise said
[20:07] that those those thoughts that that paranoia started to creep
[20:12] back in. She was suspicious that he might
[20:14] be cheating again. Elise went out of town for about
[20:17] a week in May. She was going to visit her
[20:20] grandmother who was pretty sick, so she was going back home to
[20:24] see some family and she thought, OK, now is the perfect time.
[20:28] If she was going to catch him out cheating, he was of course
[20:31] going to be cheating while she was out of town.
[20:32] So Elisa decides to hire a private investigator to follow
[20:37] her husband around while she's not there and note down
[20:42] everything he does, videotape everything he does.
[20:46] And boy, did that private investigator find so much on
[20:50] this man. Every single night that Alise
[20:53] was out of the house, he was out cheating on her.
[20:56] And I think it was all with the same woman.
[20:58] It was, again an escort called Natalia that he'd found on that
[21:02] same website that he'd found Alise.
[21:05] He had been meeting up with her. He'd brought her out to where he
[21:08] lived. They were meeting up every
[21:10] single day. He was taking her out for meals.
[21:13] In fact, the exact same restaurants that he would go to
[21:16] with Alise where they knew the owner, owners, they would sit on
[21:20] the counter in front of the chefs and he was doing all of
[21:23] this. Like he was just so blatantly
[21:26] disrespectful throughout all this.
[21:28] Going to places where they were regulars and all those stuff,
[21:32] seeing and bring in the other woman like that, that's crazy.
[21:36] That's like the cherry on top of all this shit.
[21:39] So yeah, Aliza hires this private investigator for a
[21:42] while. She's aware, and he collects all
[21:44] this evidence. He has videos of Marcos with
[21:46] this woman. He has like, like journals of
[21:50] times of where they went, what they did together.
[21:53] And now that he's gone missing, Aliza went to his parents and
[21:56] she showed them these videos of Marcos with another woman.
[21:59] And she said right before he went missing, she had confronted
[22:04] him with these videos and said, look, I know you're cheating on
[22:06] me. I know you're lying to me.
[22:08] I know you're being on unfaithful.
[22:09] And this time he didn't try to beg for her back.
[22:13] He didn't grovel like he did the first time.
[22:16] He just packed a bag and left ever stated for her.
[22:21] They really took her side because his his mother was
[22:24] saying I didn't raise him to be this way.
[22:27] She felt so bad for Elise and for their granddaughter Elise's
[22:31] child. They were like, look, anything
[22:34] you need, if you're going to leave him, anything you need
[22:36] money wise, a childcare wise, like they were going to look
[22:40] after her. They were going to make sure
[22:41] that she was OK after their son had just left her, abandoned her
[22:46] and their baby. So this information was given to
[22:48] the police eventually that he had just walked out and they
[22:53] believed it. They kind of started to drop the
[22:55] kidnapping and ransom theory since they hadn't got a ransom
[22:58] note or anything of the sort. And within a day or two of them,
[23:01] like dropping that theory, Marcos's brother received an
[23:06] e-mail from Marcos. Supposedly.
[23:09] This e-mail basically said that he was okay, don't worry about
[23:12] him. Like tell everyone not to worry,
[23:14] tell his mom and Alisa that he is sorry.
[23:17] And that's it. That's all this e-mail said.
[23:20] It didn't say where he was, what he was up to, anything of the
[23:23] sort, just that he was safe and that he was sorry.
[23:26] And it's kind of implied to stop looking for him.
[23:28] So they thought that this was like proof that he was alive and
[23:32] proof that he had just run away. So as far as police were
[23:35] concerned, there's nothing really to investigate here
[23:37] concerning this e-mail. No real crime has been committed
[23:41] as far as they can tell. What this looks like is a man
[23:45] that had been unfaithful to his wife.
[23:47] He is guilty of nothing more than being a dickhead and then
[23:51] he ran out on it. There is no missing person.
[23:53] There's no one in in danger as far as police are now concerned
[23:57] with this new theory. But less than a week later,
[24:00] there was a gruesome discovery about 30 kilometers away from
[24:04] where Marcos lived. His dead body was found chopped
[24:09] up into several pieces. Marcos Matsunaga's dead body had
[24:14] been dismembered and scattered throughout fields and Woodlands.
[24:19] Half of them were packaged up in these like blue garbage bags.
[24:23] Half of them were literally just limbs out in the grass.
[24:27] One of the first ones that was found wasn't in a bag.
[24:29] It was literally just a leg that was found in the grass.
[24:34] There was also one blue bag that had his clothes in it.
[24:38] And actually, this was one of the things that helped them to
[24:40] identify this dismembered body as Marcos Matsunaga because the
[24:45] clothes in this bag were all really expensive.
[24:48] They were all designer pieces. It was like Diesel jeans, Apollo
[24:52] shirt, like this whole outfit cost a lot more money than most
[24:57] people in that area made in a month.
[24:58] So realistically, there's only very few people that this body
[25:02] could be. And they know that this
[25:04] billionaire has just gone missing.
[25:06] So it didn't take long for them to identify it.
[25:08] Actually, his head was one of the last pieces of his body to
[25:13] be recovered. And of course, once they had the
[25:16] head, they could identify the dental records.
[25:18] And they found that this was Marcos Matsunaga.
[25:21] And when they found his head, that also offered up his cause
[25:25] of death as well. So they obviously already knew
[25:28] that he'd been murdered because of course you, you can't die of
[25:33] natural causes. And then we found dismembered in
[25:35] the field. This was obviously murder, but
[25:38] they didn't know how he'd been murdered until they found that
[25:41] head. And they found one singular
[25:43] gunshot wound going in like the top of his head and it exited
[25:48] from his jaw. One singular gunshot wound was
[25:52] his cause of death. When all of these body parts
[25:54] were transported to the morgue for a bit of an autopsy, it was
[25:58] noted that all of the all of the cuts that they'd done to like
[26:02] chop his body up, they'd been done very strategically.
[26:06] They'd been done in the right places.
[26:08] It must have been someone that had a good understanding of
[26:11] human anatomy and biology that had done this.
[26:14] Because honestly, if you gave me a body and told me to cut it up,
[26:18] I wouldn't know where to start, whereas this person clearly did.
[26:21] They knew where major bones were, so they knew to avoid
[26:25] them, stuff like that. So immediately they're thinking
[26:27] that their killer probably has some sort of medical knowledge,
[26:30] but really, other than that, they have no idea where to
[26:34] start. They have no leads, They have no
[26:36] suspects. And so one of the first things
[26:39] they decide to do is go to Marcos Marcos Marcos apartment
[26:45] building. How do you how they go to his
[26:46] apartment building anyway? And they take all of the
[26:49] security camera footage from the day that he went missing because
[26:53] the last person to have seen him alive was Elise.
[26:56] She said that he went to work and just never returned home.
[26:59] So they wanted to get the footage of him leaving for work.
[27:04] They wanted to see what he was wearing, what he looked like on
[27:06] that day, if he was acting weirdly, anything like that.
[27:09] So they get all this footage and they start watching it back and
[27:13] sure enough, he was wearing that exact same outfit, the Diesel
[27:16] jeans, the polo shirt on this footage.
[27:19] So he was killed the day that he went missing, it seems.
[27:23] Well, actually, maybe I'm skipping ahead a little bit
[27:25] there. So this footage was from May
[27:27] 19th, 2012. It was actually the exact day
[27:31] that Elise got back from her trip.
[27:33] So she hadn't even been to see the private investigator yet.
[27:37] I don't think he'd just been like texting her and calling her
[27:39] as she'd been away. So she's just got back from
[27:42] visiting family. Marcos went to go and pick her
[27:44] up from the airport and he brought her and their daughter
[27:47] back to the apartment. They all go inside.
[27:50] He's helped open up with her suitcase, whatever they go in.
[27:53] At this point, Elise hadn't confronted him about the the
[27:57] cheating or the Pi or anything like that.
[28:00] She said that she was just playing it cool.
[28:02] She she wanted to wait. She didn't want to bring it up
[28:06] like just in the lift or in the car on the way home.
[28:09] So she was going to wait until they got home and she was going
[28:11] to have a proper discussion with him about it.
[28:13] So in this footage, everything is normal.
[28:15] Then later on that night, Marcos is seen again on that CCTV
[28:18] footage going downstairs to go go and collect their take away
[28:22] pizza. So he goes down in the lift on
[28:24] his own. Some people have said that
[28:26] looking at this footage, he looks a bit nervous, a bit
[28:28] antsy, I don't know. Marcos collects the pizza from
[28:33] the delivery guy and he heads back up to their apartment and
[28:36] when he goes back inside the building, he is never seen again
[28:42] on the CCTV footage. He never leaves the apartment
[28:46] again. But the next morning, the CCTV
[28:50] footage shows Elise and Matsunaga leaving their
[28:53] apartment with three very heavy suitcases that she is dragging
[28:59] behind her, dragging into the lift.
[29:02] And the next time she is seen on the CCTV footage.
[29:05] So she leaves the whole apartment building with these
[29:07] suitcases, and then later she comes back without them.
[29:12] So where was she taking them? What was in those suitcases?
[29:16] And if it isn't clear as day what has happened here, police
[29:20] are immediately sure that Alize Matsunaga must have killed her
[29:24] own husband. She was the only other person in
[29:27] that apartment with him. And then all of a sudden, she is
[29:31] seemingly dragging out his body. Could it have been that she had
[29:36] dismembered his body inside their apartment, killed him,
[29:39] dismembered him, and then put his body into these three
[29:43] suitcases and used them to drag him out to those woods where she
[29:49] later scattered his body parts? That was the only explanation.
[29:53] That was the only thing that left that apartment in the days
[29:57] following. Just Elise and these very heavy
[30:00] seeming suitcases. That was literally the only
[30:03] explanation. They went and arrested Elisa
[30:06] practically straight away. And she did try and deny it.
[30:09] She tried to deny that she had anything to do with it, but
[30:12] like, you can't deny that CCTV footage.
[30:15] So regardless, she was charged with his murder and eventually,
[30:19] after wearing her down in a questioning, she admitted that
[30:24] she killed him. And she told police the sequence
[30:27] of events leading up to her murdering her own husband.
[30:31] She said that they'd been arguing all night before it
[30:35] happened. They had been arguing for hours,
[30:37] practically since they'd gotten back in the apartment from him
[30:40] picking her up. She said that they'd ordered
[30:42] this ticket pizza for dinner because neither of them could be
[30:45] bothered cooking. So they're waiting for this
[30:47] pizza to get here. And before it even arrives,
[30:50] Marcos starts acting weird, right?
[30:52] He took a phone call as they were waiting for the pizza to
[30:55] arrive. He took a phone call.
[30:57] And he comes back into the room afterwards and he says, oh, that
[31:00] was my dad on the phone. He really needs me tonight.
[31:03] So I'm going to, I'm going to go over to his house after we've
[31:05] eaten dinner. And immediately Alizea knows
[31:08] that this is a lie. She knew that he was ditching
[31:11] her on her first night back in town to go and see his mistress
[31:15] who was obviously still there. He'd been meeting up with his
[31:18] mistress every single night for the last week.
[31:20] She was probably still in town and he was probably ditching his
[31:23] wife that he hasn't seen in a week to go and meet this escort.
[31:27] And Alizea was fuming. Of course.
[31:29] Her initial plan was to try and play it cool and calm and try
[31:33] and have a discussion about it and bring it up in in a more
[31:36] level headed way. But as soon as she heard this,
[31:40] that he was going to see his dad, she lost it.
[31:43] She couldn't hold it in any longer.
[31:45] She started screaming at him, saying I know you're lying to
[31:48] me. And again.
[31:49] This time, Marcos didn't try to beg for her forgiveness.
[31:53] He didn't try to grovel. He didn't try to make things up
[31:55] to her. In fact, he did the complete
[31:58] opposite. Marcos became evil.
[32:02] He became so angry and awful with her.
[32:05] He was telling her that she was crazy, that she was making all
[32:08] of this up, that she was paranoid, that she was insecure.
[32:11] And this was stuff that he had told her all throughout their
[32:14] relationship. By the way, it wasn't exclusive
[32:16] to this argument. He would always tell her that
[32:19] she was crazy, that she was unstable, that she wasn't a fit
[32:23] mother to their daughter. Honestly, I think throughout
[32:25] this relationship we don't know a lot of the the insurance and
[32:29] outs because they seemed very happy on the outside, but I
[32:33] think a lot of this relationship had been quite abusive
[32:36] internally. He was very controlling, very
[32:38] possessive, didn't let her have any male friends.
[32:42] Whenever she would go to law school he would ring her up like
[32:44] once every half an hour to check where she was, who she was with,
[32:49] making sure she wasn't with any boys.
[32:50] She had to tell her male friends not to talk in the background
[32:54] while she was on the phone to her husband because he would
[32:57] flip shit. And this was just a constant
[32:58] throughout their relationship. She would always be called
[33:00] Chris, crazy and unstable. He would put her down.
[33:04] He would make her feel so worthless and less than human.
[33:08] And and particularly he had a job with her past as a sex
[33:12] worker, which is just so stupid. It's so stupid.
[33:16] That's how you met her because you were soliciting a sex
[33:19] worker. And now all of a sudden, when
[33:21] you make her your wife, you want to look down on her for having
[33:26] that past. So it's all right for him to
[33:28] solicit sex workers, but it's not all white.
[33:31] It's not all white for his wife to have been one in the past.
[33:35] He would tell her that, like, good luck finding another man
[33:38] after me because I know men, men what value you.
[33:41] He used to tell her that she was just something for them to fuck.
[33:44] And at one point during this particular confrontation, on the
[33:47] night that Elise had arrived home, she confronted him about
[33:50] the cheating. He is screaming at her.
[33:53] And at some point during this confrontation, he slaps her
[33:56] around the face. And that was the first time he'd
[33:59] ever done anything like that. Apparently.
[34:01] He'd never been physical with her before, never, like,
[34:03] physically harmed her. But he slapped her around the
[34:06] face. And she said that that was a
[34:08] turning point for him. He'd never been violent before.
[34:11] And now she didn't know what he was capable of.
[34:13] Straight away, she told him she wanted to leave him that, that
[34:16] they were going to have to get a divorce after this.
[34:18] They can't carry on in a relationship now.
[34:20] And Marcus is saying to her, he's like, fine, OK, leave me.
[34:23] But like, good luck finding someone new and all that kind of
[34:26] stuff. And he was saying, yeah, you can
[34:28] leave me, but you can't take our daughter.
[34:29] Don't you dare take our daughter with you.
[34:32] He was telling her that he was going to make sure that she
[34:35] didn't get custody of their daughter because he was going to
[34:38] tell everyone that she was crazy and that she was unstable, she
[34:41] was unfit to look after this kid.
[34:43] He was saying that he was going to get her institutionalized,
[34:46] not just taken off of custody of their daughter, but he was going
[34:49] to try and get her hospitalized. And this again is something that
[34:53] he would regularly threatened throughout their relationship
[34:56] that he was going to get her sectioned, that he was going to
[34:59] get a taken away and locked away in a hospital because she was
[35:02] supposedly crazy for thinking that he could cheat on her even
[35:06] though she had video proof. He just really liked to threaten
[35:10] her and manipulate her. And he was, from what she says
[35:15] anyway, he was awful to her throughout the marriage.
[35:18] Elise says that she doesn't remember much of what happened
[35:21] that night. Apparently it was just all this
[35:23] big emotion filled blur that she she can't remember the exact
[35:29] sequences of events. She says that the next thing she
[35:32] remembers, she had a gun in her hand.
[35:34] They were standing in the hallway and Marcos was about 6
[35:38] feet away from her. He was walking towards her.
[35:40] She had this gun in her hand and she had it pointed at Marcos.
[35:44] And he was saying, what are you? If you're going to do it, do it.
[35:47] Shoot me. Shoot me.
[35:49] And all of a sudden, Elise pulled the trigger.
[35:52] She did it. She murdered her husband with
[35:56] one singular gunshot wound to the head.
[35:58] Marcos fell to the floor. He was he was dead.
[36:02] She knew that he was dead. And she knew that she was a
[36:05] murderer. There was no going back from
[36:07] this. And that was when panic just
[36:09] started flooding in. She realized the gravity of what
[36:12] she'd just done. She knew that she was going to
[36:15] go to jail for the rest of her life.
[36:17] She knew that her daughter wasn't going to have not only a
[36:20] father, but either a mother. Now she knew that for the sake
[36:23] of her her daughter, she was going to have to try and cover
[36:27] up this crime. Her daughter needed her mother,
[36:30] she needed to be there. And the only way that she could
[36:33] do that is if she got away with this murder.
[36:36] Elisa said that she didn't know what else to do.
[36:39] She didn't know how else to dispose of this body other than
[36:43] chopping it up. And so that's what she did.
[36:45] She went and grabbed their hunting knives that they used to
[36:49] kill wild boar and and everything else, and she went
[36:54] and chopped up her husband's corpse.
[36:57] Elise managed to do this very, very well.
[37:00] Like we said, like it was discovered in the autopsy, it
[37:04] was clear that she had a lot of skill with knives.
[37:07] And immediately when it was discovered that it was Elise
[37:10] that had killed him, immediately they were thinking, right, Well,
[37:13] yeah, nurse. She used to be a nurse.
[37:15] Makes sense that she has good knowledge of anatomy.
[37:18] But actually, it turns out that the reason she was so good at
[37:21] dismembering him was because he had taught her how to do this
[37:25] with animals. He taught her how to skin
[37:28] animals and debone them and how to cut through the different,
[37:32] different types of, you know, the muscle versus gristle.
[37:37] Anyway, it was Marcos that had taught her everything she knew.
[37:41] It was him that had bought her the gun that she used to shoot
[37:45] and kill him. She then stuffed the remains of
[37:49] her husband's body into these three different suitcases and as
[37:53] we saw on CCTV, she dragged them all out the next day to dispose
[37:57] of them. Elise and Matsunaga then spent
[37:59] the next two weeks putting on a very grieving wife act.
[38:05] You know, she seemed very, very sad to everyone that she came in
[38:08] contact with, which might have been true to a degree, but also
[38:14] she was very actively lying. You know, she would tell
[38:16] everyone that she was so worried about him and she hopes he comes
[38:19] home soon. You know, he's not coming home.
[38:22] You know where he is. You know what you've done to
[38:24] him. It's a very confusing case is
[38:26] this one. You will find yourself feeling
[38:28] sympathetic one minute and then not the next.
[38:31] You know if you are going to kill someone in self defence.
[38:33] She then goes on to lie about it to everyone's face.
[38:36] She chops him up physically. Physically sits there for hours,
[38:41] hacking away at a human corpse. There's only so much sympathy
[38:46] you can have and honestly, a lot of people theorize that a lot of
[38:49] the sympathy that you might have for Elise could be built on
[38:54] false accusations. A lot of people think that all
[38:57] of this abuse that seemed to happen in the last few hours of
[39:01] his life seems quite convenient. There is absolutely no way of
[39:05] knowing. It seems awful to to want to
[39:08] argue Elise's account and want to say that she could be lying
[39:12] about this, but it's something that police have of course had
[39:15] to consider is that he had never hit her before up until this
[39:20] night supposedly and things like that.
[39:22] It just seemed very convenient that the abuse reached this new
[39:26] height on this particular night. But that being said, if the
[39:29] abuse had naturally reached a new height that night, then
[39:32] that's probably why has self-defense kicked in.
[39:35] You know, I mean, there's two sides to it.
[39:37] I don't know, it's it's the dismemberment that really gets
[39:40] me that like if I was to touch would have to kill someone in
[39:44] self-defense. Hope to never have to.
[39:46] Then the next thought going through your head to be oh OK,
[39:48] let's chop them up and hide their body.
[39:50] No, absolutely not you. Your first thought would be, oh
[39:53] shit, call the police. You would hope a lot of people
[39:58] that don't believe Elise. So, so this case is very
[40:02] polarizing. A lot of people believe her.
[40:04] A lot of people don't believe her.
[40:05] A lot of the people that don't believe her are men and a lot of
[40:07] the people that believe her are women.
[40:09] You will see throughout this case, it's a very, very
[40:11] frustrating one on so many different levels.
[40:14] But a lot of the people that don't believe her think that
[40:17] this is just proof of her gold digging ways.
[40:20] You know, they all suspected that she was a gold digger in
[40:23] the beginning and maybe this was her play in the long game.
[40:26] Maybe she would. Was getting in there getting
[40:27] married, having a kid with him so that then she could just have
[40:30] all of his inheritance maybe just kill him one day and then
[40:33] get all of his life insurance money and and be the heir to the
[40:37] food company and all of that. As I'm sure you can imagine a
[40:40] lot most of the people that are trying to discredit her accounts
[40:43] are men A lot of this case and the trial was very, very
[40:47] misogynistic. This woman is is standing there
[40:50] claiming that she has been physically abused emotionally
[40:53] abused for years. She'd been cheated on her
[40:56] husband and treated her like crap and people were like, no, I
[41:00] think you just want his money. Which, like, how stupid.
[41:03] Because as her team of lawyers quite rightly pointed out, she
[41:07] already had his money. She was already married to him,
[41:10] sharing all of that wealth with him.
[41:12] They were travelling the world, enjoying the finer things in
[41:15] life. She already had all that.
[41:16] She didn't need to kill him to get that.
[41:18] She already had access to everything that she could
[41:21] possibly get from killing him. So what does she possibly have
[41:25] to gain from killing him? Another thing that really miffed
[41:28] me off about this case, especially the trial, is that
[41:31] they just keep bringing up her past as a sex worker, which is
[41:34] so insanely irrelevant to absolutely everything that's
[41:37] going on. Absolutely everything.
[41:39] But that was like one of these misogynists.
[41:41] Big point is that she was a struggling sex worker all these
[41:45] years ago, so of course she's killed him for his money.
[41:47] What does her financial past even have to do with her
[41:53] murdering him now, never mind her her career past.
[41:56] You know, bottom line is she was already married to a very rich
[41:59] man. She was already in a very good
[42:00] situation. She doesn't need to kill for
[42:02] money is my .0. Also, the cherry on top of all
[42:06] this misogyny in this case is that they actually made Elise
[42:10] and Marcos's daughter have a DNA test so that they could prove
[42:14] that it was actually Marcos's husband and that she wasn't
[42:17] still escorting other men and falling pregnant with other men.
[42:20] And you know what the results came back of?
[42:22] Of course it was Marcos's baby. Of course it was.
[42:26] She had never once cheated on him.
[42:27] She'd never been unfaithful. There was no one else in the
[42:30] picture on her end. She had always been dedicated to
[42:33] Marcos. She genuinely liked him.
[42:35] It was him that was unfaithful. There was nothing to worry about
[42:39] or doubt with her. But now this is where we flip
[42:42] again on this story, because there were quite a few dodgy
[42:47] things in Elise's story that the prosecution brought up.
[42:50] So, for example, the way she said that she shot him was that
[42:55] they were standing about 6 feet away from each other in the
[42:57] hallway. He was walking towards her, and
[43:00] she just shot him. But there's some inconsistencies
[43:03] between her story and the physical evidence.
[43:06] So for example, the gunshot wound, the bullet went into
[43:10] Marcos's head from above. It kind of went in like that and
[43:13] then came out of his jaw, which tells us two things, actually.
[43:17] The fact that there was an exit wound says that she must have
[43:20] been very, very close to him when she shot him, which some
[43:24] people argue she must have been a lot closer than six feet.
[43:27] But some people say that in some cases it is possible to have an
[43:30] exit wound from six feet away. So that's not very strong
[43:33] evidence. But the fact that the bullet
[43:36] went into his head from above when she is shorter than him is
[43:42] questionable. She was 5 foot tall holding the
[43:44] gun about like shoulder height. He was 5 foot 8 and walking
[43:50] towards her. How is she possibly unless she
[43:53] was like holding the gun all the way up here and like pointing
[43:55] down, how how could she have shot him like that?
[43:59] Her defense team does say that this is a lot easier to explain
[44:03] than it sounds. Basically, if Marcos was walking
[44:06] towards her, probably like, like, you know, arguing,
[44:09] throwing his arms about moving around, there's the chance that
[44:13] he could have like ducked a little bit.
[44:15] And then she shot like, say, like even did that with his head
[44:18] and she shot straight forward. Then it's going in the top of
[44:21] his head. It, it does seem easier to
[44:23] explain away than the prosecution made it sound.
[44:27] And of course, there's the fact that if you see someone putting
[44:29] a gun towards you, are you going to add, are you going to try and
[44:33] like duck and protect yourself or hide or something at you?
[44:36] You're going to you're going to move.
[44:37] My instinct is to go like that. But yeah, the prosecution said
[44:40] that because of where this gunshot wound was, they said
[44:44] that Elise must be lying about her story.
[44:46] She can't have been stood 6 feet away from him when she shot him.
[44:49] They suggest that he was probably sitting down or laying
[44:53] down. He was unsuspecting.
[44:54] He was unable to defend himself. In fact, one of the theories
[44:58] that was put forward by prosecution was that Alize had
[45:01] planned to shoot him while he was out collecting the pizza
[45:05] from the delivery driver. So they think that he left the
[45:08] apartment to go and get that pizza.
[45:09] And Alize immediately snapped into action, went and grabbed
[45:13] the gun, loaded it, and then hid behind their front door, waited
[45:17] for Marcos to return. He walks into the apartment and
[45:21] then once he's in front of her and she's standing behind him,
[45:24] they think she then shot it. But now that I've just said all
[45:26] that out loud, surely that means that the shot would be too low
[45:30] as well? If he's like walking, then he is
[45:33] still going to be taller than her, is he not?
[45:36] That's stupid. That is stupid.
[45:37] But whatever you believe about where she shot him or how she
[45:41] shot him or how it went down, one thing that I just cannot let
[45:45] go of in my mind is that she dismembered his body.
[45:49] I feel like dismemberment always takes a crime to the next level
[45:54] because you have to actively sit there for hours with the smell
[45:59] of blood in your nose. Like like I genuinely could not
[46:03] think of anything worse. You're hacking away at a human
[46:06] body, hearing all the squelchy squelchy for hours.
[46:10] Like it. It's a completely different
[46:12] thing to shoot someone once in the head in self defence and
[46:16] then feel really guilty and feel remorse and like, you know,
[46:18] report yourself to the police, which is what I think a lot of
[46:21] people would do versus try and cover it up and, and chop up
[46:25] this body into several pieces and then stuff it all into three
[46:29] different suitcases. Drag the suitcases away, drag
[46:32] them to a woodland, scatter the body parts about as well.
[46:36] It wasn't even like she just like ditched them all in the
[46:38] same place and got it over with. They were scattered.
[46:41] It's this case is it's so crazy. It's so crazy.
[46:46] Oh, also, she, she was dismembering this body while her
[46:49] infant child was literally in the next room over as well.
[46:53] That's another crazy part of it. I don't know.
[46:55] I think, I think there's a certain extent of sympathy that
[46:59] you can feel. And she kind of had me up until
[47:02] the, until the dismemberment part.
[47:05] And on top of that, there was there was 1 interesting thing
[47:08] that was talked about in the trial that that we don't, I
[47:12] don't know. Let me just tell you it and
[47:13] we'll see what you guys think when I've finished.
[47:15] But basically in the autopsy, it was discovered that Marcos had
[47:20] blood in his lungs. Now, the pathologist seems to
[47:25] think that this is because he was alive as Elise was
[47:29] decapitating him. He was breathing in his own
[47:33] blood into his lungs and kind of choking on it.
[47:36] He must have still been alive after that gunshot wound.
[47:39] And he was still alive as he was having his head Hacked Off.
[47:44] And the prosecution kind of tried to use this on trial,
[47:47] saying that she was cold and callous and and she cut him up
[47:51] while he was still alive. This was a form of torture.
[47:54] But Elise said, if that's true, I had no idea.
[47:59] Like she she thought that that singular gunshot wound to the
[48:02] head had killed him. And there are some people that
[48:04] think that's true, that the gunshot wound did kill him
[48:06] immediately and the blood must have gotten into his lungs some
[48:09] other way. I mean, yeah, with, with being
[48:11] dismembered, there's going to be a lot of blood getting
[48:13] everywhere. So maybe that's how it happened.
[48:16] Or maybe he was still alive as he was being dismembered, which
[48:20] sounds horrifying. But yeah, Elise says that if, if
[48:24] that is true, she didn't, she didn't like intend to, to cause
[48:29] him more harm or to, to put him in agony and torture him or
[48:32] anything like that. She genuinely thought he was
[48:34] dead, and she thought that she was disposing of the body.
[48:37] Elise Matsunaga was found guilty of the murder and for hiding her
[48:42] husband's body. And for all of that, she was
[48:44] sentenced to just under 20 years in prison.
[48:47] She'll be due for release in 2035.
[48:51] And Elise has always said how guilty and remorseful she feels
[48:56] about this. She feels like she acted
[48:59] completely out of character that night.
[49:00] She acted out of fear and desperation, fear for her life,
[49:05] she says. She says that she would take it
[49:07] all back if she could. And for a long time after she
[49:11] killed him, she would just wish that she could have him back,
[49:15] that things could go back to how they were.
[49:17] She said that she's really, really haunted by what she did,
[49:20] like to the point where she has recurring nightmares.
[49:23] She has bad dreams about this all the time.
[49:25] She's had nightmares where she's seen his severed head covered in
[49:29] blood and his severed head is talking to her.
[49:32] Honestly sounds awful right now. She is still in prison and I'm
[49:37] sure there'll be an update on it in 20350.
[49:40] Just an update on their baby as well.
[49:42] The baby is being raised by Marcos's parents and apparently
[49:46] is is doing well. Thank you so much for listening
[49:52] to usual disclaimer. At this point, I just want to
[49:55] say that if you've been affected by any of the topics we
[49:58] discussed today, please check the description where we've left
[50:00] some helpful resources. If you want to hear more cases
[50:04] like this one, make sure to follow Usual Disclaimer on your
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[50:10] episodes. And if you really enjoyed, I'd
[50:13] love it if you could leave a rating and a review too.
[50:16] Usual Disclaimer with Eleanor Neil is an Audio Boom Studios
[50:19] production. See you next time.

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