# 099: Deep Chats with a Sex Therapist: Spontaneous Vs. Responsive Desire, Kink and Internalized Shame, and Ketamine Assisted Therapy

An episode of [Girls Gone Deep](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1682198984), 5 Dec 2024, 57 min.

Audio: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2069373/episodes/16203079-099-deep-chats-with-a-sex-therapist-spontaneous-vs-responsive-desire-kink-and-internalized-shame-and-ketamine-assisted-therapy.mp3

In this episode, Elle and Vee dive deep with a psychotherapist who they refer to as Wonder Woman on this episode for the sake of anonymity. With specializations in sex therapy and ketamine-assisted psychotherapy, the girls pick her brain on everything from desire discrepancy to the most common issues within couples, from what a ketamine-assisted psychotherapy session actually looks like to neuroplasticity. Psychotherapy vs. Psychoanalysis: what is the difference? (1:58) Top reasons couples seek sex therapy counseling: both gay and cis-het couples, and individuals. (5:15) Spontaneous desire vs responsive desire: a dive into libido differences and desire discrepancy. (6:25) Is there a way to get spontaneous desire back? Esther Perel’s Mating in Captivity. (13:33) The Dual Control Model (Sexual Brakes and Accelerators): a concept from Emily Nagoski’s book Come As You Are and her 2nd book Come Together. (20:57) Kink and shame: how to bring you kinky desires up to your partner and working through internalized shame. (26:12) Kink as shadows: how roleplaying can help one work through shame with reframing and control. (30:02) Kink isn’t always about processing something. Heteroflexible male-male play as a “taboo kink”. (31:27) Ketamine Assisted Psychotherapy: how to use it properly, and how it’s being done irresponsibly. (35:17) How neuroplasticity works in the brain using the snow track analogy by Michael Pollan, author of the book How to Change Your Mind. (47:24) Ketamine Assisted Couples Psychotherapy. (53:02) Final Nugget: Keeping the idea of play and pleasure at the forefront. (53:57) Support the show ______ How to Support the Show: 💰 Donate Here 💋Linktree: https://linktr.ee/girlsgonedeep 🎧 Instagram: @girlsgonedeeppod 🛍️ Merch: girlsgonedeep.com/shop — wear your kinks proudly. 🍑 Woo More Play: Shop with our affiliate link — support the pod while you stock up on your favorite pleasure essentials. 🪄 WAANDS™: Crystal Pleasure Products HERE. Get 15% off with code GIRLSGONEDEEP 🔮 WHOREible Life: Get 10% off your game deck with code GONEDEEP at whoreiblelife.com IG: @wlthegame 🔥 Naughty Disco’s Sexy NYC Dance Party: code GONEDEEP69 for 15% off any event ticket IG: @naughtydisco 💌 Contact: girlsgonedeep@gmail.com © 2025 GGD Alchemy, LLC. All Rights Reserved.

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