# 166. John Swinney: Identity, Independence, and The Future of Scotland

An episode of [The Rest Is Politics: Leading](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1665265193), 15 Dec 2025, 1 h 15 min.

Audio: https://pdst.fm/e/traffic.megaphone.fm/GLT2526649494.mp3?updated=1765741103

What is the future of the Scottish independence movement? How does the SNP rebuild trust and support for independence after a series of bruising scandals? Why did the Scottish First Minister feel disrespected by a series of Conservative Prime Ministers? Alastair and Rory are joined by Scottish First Minister John Swinney to answer all this and more. Gift The Rest Is Politics Plus this Christmas - give someone a whole year of Rory and Alastair’s miniseries, ad-free listening, early access to episodes and live show tickets, an exclusive members’ newsletter, discounted book prices, and a private chatroom on Discord. Just go to https://therestispolitics.supportingcast.fm/gifts And of course, you can still join for yourself any time at therestispolitics.com For Leading listeners, there’s free access to the Wordsmith Academy - plus their report on the future of legal skills. Visit https://www.wordsmith.ai/politics Social Producer: Celine Charles Video Editor: Josh Smith Producer: Alice Horrell Senior Producer: Nicole Maslen Head of Politics: Tom Whiter Exec Producers: Tony Pastor + Jack Davenport Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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