# Hidden Signs of Thyroid Dysfunction You Might Be Missing (ft. Dr. Izabella Wentz) | SNH Podcast #72

An episode of [Health Optimization Medicine Podcast](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1663974629), 22 May 2024, 1 h 28 min.

Audio: https://traffic.libsyn.com/secure/672d8edf-a640-45ce-ac61-cd5f898a7b27/SNH_72_Audio.mp3?dest-id=3824325

In this episode of the Smarter Not Harder Podcast, Dr. Scott Sherr chats with functional medicine expert Dr. Isabella Wentz, also known as the Thyroid Pharmacist. *Join us as we delve into:* + The surprising benefits of Methylene Blue: Discover how this natural supplement can boost focus, reduce brain fog, and even improve your nails! Isabella shares her personal experience using Methylene Blue to write her latest book. + Simple strategies to optimize your health: Learn Isabella's top 3 tips for living a smarter, healthier life, including the importance of nature, regular cleanses, and identifying the best foods for your body. + Hashimoto's and beyond: Whether you struggle with thyroid issues or simply want to improve your energy and focus, this episode is packed with valuable insights from a leading functional medicine expert. *This episode is for you if:* - You're looking for natural ways to improve your focus and concentration. - You're interested in learning more about the benefits of Methylene Blue. - You'd like to optimize your health with simple, effective strategies. - You're curious about functional medicine and its approach to thyroid health. *You can also find this episode on…* Youtube: https://youtu.be/H5cDYtHa5ms *Find more from Dr. Izabella Wentz* Website: https://thyroidpharmacist.com/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ThyroidLifestyle/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/izabellawentzpharmd/ *Learn more about Smarter Not Harder:* Website: https://troscriptions.com/blogs/podcast | https://homehope.org Instagram: @troscriptions | @homehopeorg Get 10% Off your purchase of the Metabolomics Module by using PODCAST10 at https://www.homehope.org Get 10% Off your Troscriptions purchase by using POD10 at https://www.troscriptions.com Get daily content from the hosts of Smarter Not Harder by following @troscriptions on Instagram.

## Transcript

[0:00] Isabella, it's nice to see you.
[0:01] Hey, Scott.
[0:02] Thanks so much for having me.
[0:03] It's so great to see you again.
[0:04] Well, I'm just so excited
[0:06] to have you Isabella.
[0:07] I've been watching and reading
[0:09] about your work for so many years.
[0:10] And you've been doing podcasts and media
[0:12] related to your work and in Hashimoto's
[0:15] and adrenals fatigue, and I know you have
[0:17] new books that you're working on as well.
[0:19] And some interesting work.
[0:20] Individually, personally with
[0:21] Methylene Blue that I'm excited to
[0:23] get to talk about as well with you.
[0:24] You've done a lot of these podcasts
[0:25] and I'm excited for this one because
[0:26] we get to go the practitioner route.
[0:28] We get to get into the weeds
[0:29] if we get there and we find
[0:31] different ways to get there.
[0:32] And the way I want to start
[0:34] it today is one of the things
[0:36] that I'm very interested in.
[0:37] And I was mentioning this to you
[0:38] before we started the podcast is
[0:41] kind of the evolutionary history
[0:42] as to why we're We would have this
[0:45] happen to our thyroid, for example.
[0:46] So why would we have even a state
[0:49] of hypothyroidism as something
[0:51] that could be an advantage?
[0:52] Not only a disadvantage as
[0:54] we think about it today.
[0:55] Hmm.
[0:56] an interesting body of work.
[0:57] So I've spent years and years
[0:59] and hours studying Hashimoto's
[1:02] and why does it develop?
[1:03] Are there toxins involved?
[1:05] Why do we have higher rates of it now?
[1:06] Is it the female gender?
[1:08] Is it pregnancy?
[1:09] what's really going on and what really
[1:11] causes people to develop Hashimoto's?
[1:14] And after about five years, I happened
[1:16] to attend this presentation and a woman
[1:19] was talking about how during the Irish
[1:22] potato famine, the people that became
[1:24] hypothyroid were more likely to survive.
[1:27] And then it got me to start thinking
[1:28] about, how does hypothyroidism, from
[1:32] a adaptive physiology standpoint,
[1:35] how does it help us survive,
[1:36] and how does it help us adapt?
[1:38] Because When we look at like the
[1:40] body and what it does and why certain
[1:42] illnesses occur from an adaptive
[1:44] physiology standpoint, it's to
[1:45] adapt to our environment, right?
[1:47] So when somebody is very toxic, they
[1:50] might be holding on to more weight
[1:52] because they can dissolve the toxins
[1:54] that are fat soluble and in the extra
[1:56] fat that they have on their bodies.
[1:57] And that's one of the theories behind,
[1:59] obesity as a protective mechanism, right?
[2:03] And so, with thyroid disorders, one
[2:06] of the things that I thought about
[2:08] was what are some of those symptoms
[2:10] that we have when we're hypothyroid?
[2:12] And of course, we're losing hair, we're
[2:15] gaining weight, we're less fertile, and
[2:19] when can some of these things be helpful?
[2:21] And of course, we're tired and
[2:22] brain fogged and not as likely
[2:24] to go out into the world.
[2:25] And of course, things come
[2:26] to mind, famine, right?
[2:28] So, when you're in a famine,
[2:31] Wouldn't it be helpful for
[2:32] you not to need as much food?
[2:35] Would it be helpful for you to have
[2:36] this amazing metabolism that you
[2:37] need to eat like 300 calories a day?
[2:40] Otherwise you will wither?
[2:41] Probably not.
[2:42] But wouldn't it be amazing to have
[2:44] this hypothyroidism, sort of semi
[2:47] hibernation
[2:48] state when in a famine.
[2:49] Looking at some of the thyroid
[2:51] parameters in hibernating bears, right?
[2:54] There's a bit of more reverse C3 and
[2:56] different types of changes that occur
[2:59] with hibernating bears that allows them
[3:01] to slow down their metabolism and allows
[3:03] them to essentially not leave their caves.
[3:05] So another situation where we wouldn't
[3:08] want to leave our caves back in the
[3:10] cave man, cave woman days would be if
[3:12] we were going through a war or there
[3:14] was some kind of a tragedy in the world,
[3:17] it would be much better to stay safe
[3:19] inside of our caves and hypothyroidism
[3:22] also causes like libido issues.
[3:24] So you're not in the mood and
[3:25] you're also, losing hair.
[3:26] You've got this skin.
[3:27] So probably you're not as,
[3:29] likely to attract others, right?
[3:31] If you're, one, in a bad mood and two
[3:34] not really out there in the world.
[3:35] And that can be very protective
[3:37] in terms of, fertility, right?
[3:39] women tend to have more
[3:40] cases of hypothyroidism.
[3:41] Our bodies are tuned in and sensing
[3:44] our environment and trying to figure
[3:46] out, is this a safe time to reproduce?
[3:48] Because, you've got four kids.
[3:50] I've got one, but we know that it takes
[3:51] a toll on not just the woman, but as
[3:55] the family, the species as a whole.
[3:57] So it will better.
[3:58] mostly women, but that anyway.
[3:59] Okay.
[3:59] Yeah.
[4:00] Of course, but like the men supporting
[4:02] them too, so that's something that
[4:04] can be very helpful for the survival
[4:05] of our species to not have a bunch of
[4:08] babies when there's a war, famine, or
[4:11] something else going on in the world.
[4:14] And so I really started
[4:16] to think about that.
[4:17] And then it's safety, right?
[4:18] And the cell danger response and our
[4:20] bodies always sensing what's going
[4:23] on, what's going on in the world.
[4:24] And there are a lot of things I think
[4:27] in our modern world that lead us to
[4:31] essentially send those same signals
[4:34] of hey there's a war, hey there's a
[4:36] famine, hey there's something going
[4:38] on in the world and we're not safe.
[4:39] And I call this the safety theory and
[4:42] I think about a lot of the women that
[4:44] I've worked with and one way they can
[4:47] send these danger signals to their
[4:49] bodies is over exercising, right?
[4:51] Sure.
[4:52] Over working.
[4:53] Psychological stress and trauma.
[4:55] This can send us a message
[4:56] that we're not safe.
[4:58] Things like watching scary shows,
[5:00] watching the news, or as some
[5:02] people call it, fear porn, right?
[5:04] Like, when you're constantly
[5:05] tuned into that, what is your
[5:08] subconscious telling you?
[5:09] I know it's like, this is happening
[5:11] very far away, but your cavewoman
[5:14] brain does, just doesn't know that.
[5:16] So, you get these messages
[5:17] sent to your subconscious, that
[5:20] tell you that it's not safe.
[5:21] Other things are eating
[5:22] foods, inflammatory foods.
[5:23] When I think about cave women, when would
[5:26] they eat like something in a box, right?
[5:29] Like when would they see a box and
[5:30] decide that they want to eat it?
[5:32] So that probably when there was like a
[5:33] lack of food around or something that
[5:35] was causing inflammation in their body.
[5:38] And these are just some of the factors
[5:41] that lead us to essentially shift
[5:44] our body into this like danger zone.
[5:46] Okay.
[5:46] Where the body's like, girl,
[5:48] I'm going to help you out.
[5:50] Seems like you're running on a treadmill.
[5:52] There must be like lots of bears here.
[5:54] You're eating very few calorie
[5:56] things and you're eating the
[5:58] stuff that isn't really food.
[5:59] I'm going to help you out, girlfriend.
[6:00] And I'm going to let you hold
[6:02] on to all of that extra weight.
[6:04] Right?
[6:05] Cause clearly you're not safe when
[6:06] we need to conserve energy to, I'll
[6:08] give you all this fat to protect you.
[6:10] So that's sort of the, The idea
[6:13] that I came across and, and sure
[6:14] enough, I've tested this theory,
[6:16] the safety theory with, with clients
[6:18] and people in my group programs.
[6:20] And when we really focus on those messages
[6:22] of safety and try to minimize those danger
[6:24] signals, they get better and they get
[6:26] better in like three to four weeks where
[6:28] a lot of their symptoms that they've
[6:30] had for 10, 15 years, 20 years, they
[6:33] just begin to like shift and melt away.
[6:35] And all of a sudden they're not anxious.
[6:37] Their weight is coming off.
[6:38] They're sleeping better.
[6:39] So this, this is my whole safety theory.
[6:42] In a
[6:43] love it.
[6:43] I love it.
[6:44] And it makes so much sense, right?
[6:45] Because when you have stress on the
[6:48] system, the system is going to react
[6:51] in a way to try to protect you.
[6:52] And that's going to be not only
[6:54] your thyroid, but it's going to be
[6:55] your Multiple different locations
[6:57] in your body, that are all kind
[6:59] of simultaneously happening.
[7:00] But I would imagine as one
[7:02] of the primary regulatory.
[7:04] Or if not the primary regulatory
[7:06] hormone or the hormone producer of
[7:08] our body, you know, aside from our
[7:10] brain, of course, it would be the
[7:11] thyroid that does most of this.
[7:14] absolutely.
[7:14] So our thyroid manages our metabolism,
[7:17] as we all know, and when we're very
[7:19] stressed out, I think a lot of us realize
[7:22] our body
[7:23] starts to adapt.
[7:24] So we might have more cortisol
[7:25] production in the early stages,
[7:27] and that can go down with time.
[7:29] And that also impacts thyroid function.
[7:32] So, you know, there are times when
[7:34] people will have quote unquote
[7:35] absolutely normal thyroid function.
[7:38] But they have all the thyroid
[7:39] symptoms, and we'll look at an
[7:40] advanced thyroid panel, and they'll
[7:41] have high levels of reverse T3.
[7:44] And this is, a molecule that likes to sit
[7:47] on T3 receptors, but it just blocks them.
[7:51] Oftentimes this is high stress, or this
[7:54] could also be, low ferritin levels.
[7:56] These are some of the drivers of some,
[7:58] hey, something is off in the body.
[8:00] Let's slow things down.
[8:01] Let's figure things out.
[8:03] Yeah.
[8:04] Well, I just want to go back
[8:05] initially, you talked about bears.
[8:07] So
[8:07] I want to ask about, you
[8:08] mentioned bears and reverse T3
[8:11] and slowing down their metabolism.
[8:12] I don't, do you know anything about
[8:13] this in particular, or is it, we just
[8:15] know that they have mechanisms for
[8:18] hibernation that allow their thyroid to
[8:20] slow down for long periods of time, so
[8:22] they don't have to move kind of deal.
[8:24] They do.
[8:25] Yeah, they have their thyroid
[8:26] glands adapt to the cold and
[8:29] they've done some studies on this.
[8:30] But essentially their thyroid function
[8:32] gets altered during winter time.
[8:34] And they begin to, they're not out
[8:37] there hunting and gathering food.
[8:39] They're just able to like
[8:40] chill in their caves and have
[8:42] all this wonderful fat, right.
[8:44] And sleep.
[8:45] And it's like, that, that
[8:46] to me is kind of like, huh.
[8:48] I wonder what would happen if people
[8:50] became hypothyroid in the winter.
[8:52] Would that happen if we didn't have
[8:53] all of these interventions, right?
[8:55] Not that I'm recommending
[8:56] this as an experiment.
[8:57] I don't think we have the same
[8:58] adaptations as, bears do, but they've
[9:00] adapted over many, many years.
[9:03] Right.
[9:03] We all, we all have the base physiology.
[9:04] That's very likely the similar, and
[9:06] it's just been sort of out of that
[9:07] family tree adapted to being a bear as
[9:10] opposed to a human, but that hypothyroid
[9:13] physiology that happens during stress.
[9:14] I love the idea of the
[9:16] safety theory in general.
[9:17] We, I mean, we don't think about it in
[9:19] the context of somebody that's very, very.
[9:22] Very active and exercising all the
[9:23] time, they lose their menstrual
[9:24] period, for example, right?
[9:25] That's also another adaption because,
[9:28] you know, when you're stressed
[9:29] all the time, that's also going
[9:30] to be affecting thyroid function,
[9:31] affecting, hypothalamic function
[9:34] as well, as far as hormone release.
[9:36] So, I mean, everything's
[9:36] interconnected in here.
[9:37] And I think when you talked about famine,
[9:40] what it made me think of is there are
[9:42] some pretty Common nutrient deficiencies
[9:45] overall that can induce, , a hypothyroid
[9:48] state or a thyroid deficient state.
[9:50] Do you want to speak to that a
[9:51] little bit as far as what are
[9:52] the most common ones that we see?
[9:54] And also some of the main toxins
[9:57] that we see that are also at this
[9:59] point affecting thyroid function.
[10:01] I, I really, I love focusing on nutrients
[10:04] as, as nutrient deficiencies are
[10:07] something that's really easy to correct.
[10:10] For most people, and that's oftentimes
[10:12] the first place I start with people
[10:13] as well as the nutritional component
[10:15] getting off of inflammatory foods.
[10:17] I would say selenium is probably the
[10:19] biggest one and the first one that I
[10:21] would think about with somebody that has.
[10:24] Autoimmune hypothyroidism.
[10:25] We know that Hashimoto's is the
[10:27] primary cause of most cases of
[10:29] hypothyroidism in the modern world.
[10:31] So I'm, I'm going to speak
[10:32] to, everybody about that.
[10:34] And from that perspective, selenium
[10:36] deficiency has been known to be an
[10:39] environmental trigger for Hashimoto's.
[10:41] And replenishing selenium levels can
[10:43] help people significantly, generally 83
[10:46] micrograms to 200 micrograms per day.
[10:48] Has helped people with things like
[10:50] anxiety and hair loss and a lot of
[10:53] times Within about three months, you'll
[10:55] see that their thyroid antibodies
[10:58] can go down by 40 to 50 percent.
[11:00] This is a one that I really
[11:02] Advocate for a lot of people.
[11:04] The other one is myo-inositol So
[11:07] this is something that has just come
[11:09] through the research in the last few
[11:11] years When I first was on my healing
[11:13] journey, and I was first working with
[11:15] people, this wasn't really on my radar.
[11:18] But in the last, I would say
[11:19] seven years or so, the focus has
[11:21] been on utilizing myo-inositol.
[11:25] The studied dose was about 600 milligrams,
[11:28] combined with selenium at 83 micrograms.
[11:32] And the two of them have the
[11:33] synergistic effect, where a person
[11:36] will be able to potentially,
[11:38] like, subclinical hypothyroid.
[11:40] Patients can be corrected to
[11:43] normal thyroid function with
[11:44] just these two nutrients.
[11:46] And also, thyroid antibodies can go
[11:49] into the remission range, so there's
[11:51] this amazing synergistic effect.
[11:52] And the thought process is it
[11:54] has something to do with, you
[11:55] know, the blood sugar regulation,
[11:57] blood sugar optimization.
[11:58] But I think there's other
[11:59] mechanisms at play with it that
[12:01] are not yet quite described.
[12:04] The other nutrients that I think are
[12:06] very relevant would be Thiamine, I
[12:09] have found for people who have this
[12:12] thyroid fatigue, they have low blood
[12:14] pressure, they have a lot of, brain
[12:18] fog, potentially some anxiety.
[12:21] They, and some of those orthostatic
[12:25] hypotension POTS individuals,
[12:27] utilizing that can help them recover
[12:30] in, from their fatigue in just like
[12:33] three days, three to five days.
[12:35] So.
[12:36] Whenever I see somebody with that,
[12:38] I would recommend something like
[12:39] benfotiamine, 600 milligrams, just for
[12:43] like a trial of, you know, one, get
[12:45] one bottle of that and see how you do.
[12:47] And I have had so many people who
[12:49] were like, there were people on
[12:51] disability that were working again,
[12:54] or people who were like bedridden
[12:56] that were able to move around.
[12:57] I will get random hugs from strangers.
[13:01] At conferences because they'll say
[13:03] you changed my life because I read
[13:05] an article of yours and you happen
[13:07] to mention benfotiamine and was
[13:09] just a few days and I got better.
[13:11] this is another one that I feel
[13:13] like is very much not talked
[13:15] about, but very important.
[13:17] Magnesium deficiency.
[13:19] I mean, who isn't
[13:20] magnesium deficient, right?
[13:22] But this really helps a lot
[13:24] of people with hypothyroidism.
[13:25] There are studies that have shown
[13:27] on ultrasound, the thyroid gland can
[13:30] normalize with magnesium citrate.
[13:32] It won't happen within days, but it
[13:33] could, it would be like five years
[13:35] of using that on a regular basis.
[13:37] Citrate.
[13:37] Interesting.
[13:38] Okay.
[13:38] citrate.
[13:39] And I tend to use that because
[13:40] a lot of people are constipated.
[13:42] I know gly, glycinate is much
[13:44] more cool and trendy, but
[13:45] for me,
[13:46] and all the other ones.
[13:47] Come
[13:47] yeah, yeah, there's all these other
[13:49] fun ones, but for people that I work
[13:51] with, I typically start them on the
[13:52] citrate because a lot of their symptoms
[13:55] just really improve and vanish.
[13:56] Okay.
[13:57] Makes sense.
[13:57] Vitamin D, I mean, if you
[14:00] have an autoimmune condition,
[14:01] this is a big game changer.
[14:04] A lot of my ladies who, are in
[14:06] remission, I will aim to get their
[14:08] vitamin D levels about 60 to 80.
[14:11] Yeah.
[14:11] Me too.
[14:12] Yeah.
[14:12] this is something that is very
[14:14] simple and typically when people
[14:16] have like seasonal depression, I
[14:18] mean, I just test everybody for that.
[14:21] If I'm going to be working with
[14:22] them, that's kind of the basic panel.
[14:24] And then we're looking at B12.
[14:26] So some people do have pernicious
[14:28] anemia with Hashimoto's.
[14:30] I know I'm going on a tangent.
[14:32] I'm just like trying
[14:33] to give you the useful
[14:34] pearls.
[14:35] But pernicious anemia is often
[14:37] caused by H pylori, which is
[14:39] also a trigger for Hashimoto's.
[14:40] So whenever I have a person with low B12
[14:42] levels and elevated thyroid antibodies,
[14:45] I'm thinking, and acid reflux and
[14:47] food sensitivities, I'm thinking H.
[14:49] pylori.
[14:50] And when you treat that accordingly,
[14:52] that can get rid of the pernicious anemia
[14:53] that can get rid of, significantly
[14:55] reduced Hashimoto's antibodies.
[14:57] Sometimes people can lower their
[14:58] dosage of medications or even come off.
[15:01] And, so B12, I generally test
[15:03] for, and I prefer to use like
[15:05] a sublingual version of it.
[15:07] I think injections are
[15:09] great too, of course.
[15:11] but I typically find people.
[15:13] Some people love to give
[15:14] themselves injections.
[15:16] A lot of people don't.
[15:17] you know, sublingual because
[15:18] of the, because it's easier to
[15:19] absorb here as opposed to if
[15:20] they have a digestive issues.
[15:22] Is that why sublingual typically?
[15:24] definitely because of digestive
[15:26] issues and because of, you know,
[15:27] the, antiperiodal cell antibodies
[15:30] with, against intrinsic factor.
[15:31] So people who are intrinsic
[15:33] factor producing cells.
[15:34] So people who have Hashimoto's
[15:37] generally are more likely to have
[15:38] other autoimmune conditions such
[15:39] as, autoimmune pernicious anemia.
[15:41] So this is just always something
[15:43] that's in the back of my mind.
[15:44] And they also might have low stomach
[15:46] acid, or They might have SIBO or
[15:48] other reasons why they're just not
[15:50] absorbing the B12 orally so that
[15:52] sublingual works really, really well.
[15:55] And I have a nice little protocol where
[15:57] we'll use like 5, 000 and over the course
[16:00] of a time period and then we kind of give
[16:02] them a maintenance dose, but that tends
[16:04] to replenish their levels pretty well.
[16:06] 5, 000 micrograms of B12.
[16:08] I mean, yeah.
[16:09] Okay.
[16:10] And then the other thing that
[16:12] is really relevant for a lot of
[16:14] people and I've been talking to
[16:15] practitioners just here and there.
[16:17] I'll have casual conversations.
[16:18] I was shocked that not many people
[16:19] are doing this or testing for it, but
[16:22] ferritin, the iron storage protein,
[16:25] this is something that's going to be
[16:27] low in a large population of people
[16:30] with Hashimoto's and hypothyroidism.
[16:33] And this is one of the primary reasons
[16:35] why somebody is on like a levothyroxine or
[16:40] Synthroid or a T4 containing medication.
[16:43] And they're not feeling well.
[16:45] It's
[16:45] because
[16:46] we need that for proper T4 to T3
[16:49] conversion and for proper shuttling
[16:51] of, thyroid hormones into the cells.
[16:53] Typically I'll see, people with low
[16:55] ferritin if they're on a T4 only med.
[16:58] They'll have hair loss and
[16:59] brain fog and weight gain.
[17:01] And you can do one of two things.
[17:02] You can switch them to like an armor or
[17:04] natural desiccated thyroid and that will
[17:07] kind of bypass that ferritin system.
[17:10] Or you can just give them ferret,
[17:12] you could just give them more, you
[17:13] know, iron in a form that they can
[17:15] absorb and that will correct it and
[17:17] they, they will do fine on, T4 with
[17:21] the exception of some people that
[17:22] might have other things going on.
[17:23] So, so oftentimes it's like, what do
[17:25] you do to get a person feeling better?
[17:28] Oftentimes it is doing like a T4,
[17:31] T3 combination and addressing their
[17:32] ferritin, but I will say something.
[17:35] Some practitioners in the
[17:36] integrative world, they'll just
[17:38] be like, Oh, you need armor.
[17:40] And the low ferritin
[17:41] isn't on their radar.
[17:42] And that's such a big
[17:43] needle mover for people.
[17:45] And I know personally, for
[17:46] me, I was like, Oh, holy cow.
[17:48] Like you can have, restless leg.
[17:50] You can have a shortness of breath.
[17:52] You can have hair loss.
[17:53] You can have.
[17:54] Depression, anxiety, trouble
[17:57] sleeping at night, and, you know,
[17:59] pale skin, and all of these things
[18:01] when you don't have
[18:02] I think too.
[18:02] Right.
[18:02] So you get
[18:03] Yeah, yeah, I've had clients who were
[18:05] like, just eating carrots non stop.
[18:08] And I'm like, I don't, I don't
[18:09] quite understand that mechanism,
[18:11] but of course, you know, pica
[18:13] is a red flag for that, right?
[18:14] Yeah, pike is the classic way
[18:16] we thought we think about iron
[18:17] deficiency and ferritin being low
[18:19] is correlated to typically like an
[18:21] iron deficient panel kind of deal.
[18:23] I have a lot of questions for
[18:24] you, but I want to make sure
[18:24] you get through your whole list.
[18:25] This is great.
[18:26] Maybe I'll stop you for a moment here.
[18:28] Just a couple of things to point out.
[18:29] You had the option, you're going to be
[18:31] testing people for these things, right?
[18:33] Selenium, thiamine levels,
[18:35] magnesium, vitamin D.
[18:36] I know that not everybody
[18:37] can do that right away.
[18:38] And there's, these are relatively safe
[18:40] things to start off with, but something
[18:42] like selenium, for example, you could
[18:43] get people taking too much of it over
[18:45] time because it does have, you know,
[18:47] some antioxidant capacity, but also has
[18:50] the ability to be the opposite, right?
[18:52] So if, You're thinking about, you know,
[18:54] these selenium, thymine, magnesium,
[18:56] vitamin DB 12, are you typically ferritin,
[18:58] are you typically testing this in most
[19:00] of your clients or recommending it?
[19:02] I definitely recommend testing B12.
[19:04] I definitely recommend testing
[19:05] ferritin and vitamin D.
[19:07] So generally with ferritin and
[19:09] vitamin D, we can overdose iron
[19:11] overload is, potentially worse
[19:13] than iron deficiency, right?
[19:16] And of course with B12, we want to know
[19:17] that you're actually absorbing it rather
[19:20] having really low levels leads us to, to
[19:23] think about what else might be going on.
[19:25] These three are a deal breaker, like
[19:27] you definitely have to test for them.
[19:29] With thiamine and magnesium and
[19:32] myo-inositol and selenium, some
[19:35] of these other nutrients, I might
[19:37] just start somebody on a trial
[19:39] of them and see how they do.
[19:41] The selenium, the caveat with that,
[19:43] it is a narrow therapeutic index
[19:45] nutrient, so doses under 100 when
[19:48] used by itself may not be effective.
[19:51] And doses above five, six
[19:53] hundred might be toxic.
[19:55] And so there's also like an optimal
[19:57] time period where you would take
[19:58] it, maybe three to six months,
[20:00] to replenish your stores rather
[20:01] than taking it for ten years.
[20:03] I have seen people with, a lot of times
[20:06] the CBS gene mutation, where they just
[20:09] have, sulfur intolerance, where they end
[20:13] up becoming toxic from excess selenium.
[20:17] These days, I really like using it with,
[20:20] I, back in the day, I used to recommend
[20:22] 200 to 400 micrograms for most people.
[20:24] These days, I really like using the
[20:26] 83 micrograms with the myo-inositol
[20:29] because it's a lower dosage, so
[20:30] you're less likely to become, toxic
[20:33] and there's a synergistic effect.
[20:35] And one thing, I know everybody's
[20:37] like, Brazil nuts, Brazil nuts.
[20:39] Can I just tell you, please, like,
[20:40] if you like them, please eat them.
[20:43] But I've done the labs for people and
[20:45] they're eating Brazil nuts a day Amazing.
[20:48] They're great for you.
[20:48] They're beautiful whole foods,
[20:50] but they're not going to move the
[20:51] needle like a supplement Well, you
[20:53] know, so
[20:54] I'm sorry
[20:56] That's been my experience too.
[20:57] Yeah, I love food as medicine don't get
[21:00] me wrong, but it's just one of those
[21:01] pet peeves where people I'm like Oh,
[21:04] it doesn't actually work like rubbing
[21:06] olive oil over your thyroid gland
[21:08] rubbing coconut oil over your thyroid
[21:10] gland these things like You Amazing.
[21:12] They'll make your neck smooth, but
[21:13] they're not actually going to work, right?
[21:15] That's the thing, huh?
[21:16] Rubbing coconut oil on your thyroid.
[21:18] Yeah, that was one of the things I
[21:19] think I, when I was earlier on my
[21:22] healing journey, it was like I tried all
[21:23] these things and that was one of them.
[21:25] Did not work, right?
[21:26] Made my skin really soft.
[21:27] Amazing, but yeah, there's a lot of
[21:30] things that, sound good in theory, but
[21:32] they just don't really work , in practice.
[21:34] Yeah, of
[21:34] I'm excited
[21:35] to share about those.
[21:36] and as clinicians, like you
[21:37] don't know sometimes, right?
[21:38] Because when you're living outside
[21:40] the box of conventional medicine and
[21:42] you're doing things that are trying to
[21:43] help people, sometimes you're going to
[21:45] miss, but coconut oil on the thyroid
[21:47] is not, it's pretty benign overall.
[21:49] So that's pretty good,
[21:50] Oh, absolutely.
[21:51] came to me and said, Hey, I want
[21:51] to put coconut oil on my neck,
[21:53] tell my thyroid, I'm like, well,
[21:54] there's no evidence, but go for it.
[21:55] Right.
[21:55] It's not, it doesn't sound like
[21:56] it's going to hurt anything.
[21:56] Right.
[21:57] It'll make
[21:57] your skin beautiful.
[21:58] Go for it.
[21:59] Yeah.
[21:59] Yeah.
[21:59] Yeah.
[22:00] Yeah.
[22:00] It's shiny.
[22:01] You know, great.
[22:01] Before we got on, actually, you were
[22:02] telling me about this series on ferritin
[22:05] that you just did on social media.
[22:06] And I thought, given we're talking
[22:08] about it now, it'd be a great time to
[22:10] discuss it because I've had conversations
[22:12] with functional practitioners as
[22:13] well, that specialized in the thyroid.
[22:15] And it's not something that I've heard
[22:16] of very much in the sense of most people
[22:18] as in this community will actually just
[22:20] change people over from synthroid to
[22:23] armor, just kind of hands down, right.
[22:24] In the sense that.
[22:25] You're just getting T4.
[22:26] You're getting no active T3.
[22:28] You shouldn't be doing that.
[22:30] Most people have a hard time
[22:31] converting from T4 to T3.
[22:35] You're not going to feel as good
[22:36] if you were to, as if you were
[22:37] taking some active T3 as well.
[22:39] And that's kind of how I trained to some
[22:40] degree as well, at least on the hormonal
[22:42] optimization side of things, where it
[22:44] is difficult as we get older, at least
[22:46] I think, to convert from T4 to T3.
[22:49] So maybe you can talk about, That a
[22:51] little bit, the conversion and then how
[22:53] ferritin you already kind of mentioned
[22:55] this, but I know maybe you can go into
[22:56] maybe some more detail about the ferritin
[22:58] aspects and what that means overall.
[23:01] Yeah, so absolutely.
[23:02] And I think yes to both.
[23:04] So a lot of times with thyroid,
[23:06] there's a lot with Hashimoto's.
[23:08] There's like the root causes.
[23:10] Why did you develop it in the first place?
[23:12] There are the consequences of
[23:15] being hypothyroid for a long time.
[23:18] And then there's the actual
[23:19] hypothyroidism itself.
[23:21] So there's like few different things going
[23:22] on when a person has Hashimoto's and a lot
[23:25] of times to bring a person to treatment.
[23:28] Going from like, you know, sloth like or
[23:31] bear like to like a thriving person, you
[23:34] have to address all three of these things.
[23:37] And I feel like, hypothyroidism,
[23:39] we can get really focused on that.
[23:42] And then oftentimes it is
[23:43] doing that T4, T3 combination.
[23:46] Not everybody, but for some people
[23:47] that is absolutely the answer.
[23:50] But we also have to look
[23:51] at the other things.
[23:52] So what are like the root causes and what
[23:53] are the consequences of being hypothyroid?
[23:56] One of the consequences of
[23:57] being hypothyroid is going
[23:59] to be low stomach acid.
[24:01] And some of the root causes that
[24:03] lead to hypothyroidism, such as H.
[24:05] pylori infections, can also lead
[24:07] a person to have low stomach acid.
[24:08] And what does low stomach acid, what does
[24:10] stomach acid help with absorbing, right?
[24:13] Iron, other things, right?
[24:16] It helps us with absorbing
[24:17] our nutrients from food.
[24:19] And a lot of times you can have people who
[24:22] are going to have low levels of ferritin
[24:24] because they are deficient in stomach acid
[24:28] and sometimes it's correcting
[24:29] their stomach acid.
[24:30] If they're eating like a, a rich diet
[24:32] and iron that will help them get more.
[24:36] Ferritin on board.
[24:37] Sometimes it's telling people,
[24:39] okay, you're eating a vegan diet.
[24:40] You're probably going to be deficient
[24:42] in this unless we change your diet
[24:44] or give you a supplement, right?
[24:46] I think most people with that think
[24:48] about anemia, you think about like
[24:50] overt anemia, and you think about low
[24:52] hemoglobin, hematocrit, and you do your
[24:55] iron panel, but a lot of people don't
[24:57] test for ferritin on that iron paddle
[24:59] and panel and that's going to be like
[25:00] an early indicator of iron deficiency.
[25:04] And again, this is something
[25:06] that's very commonly low in
[25:08] people with hypothyroidism.
[25:09] Hair loss is one of
[25:10] the red flags for this.
[25:12] And for proper hair growth, we need it
[25:14] to be at least 70 for, to stop shedding.
[25:17] And then, like, 90 to 110 is about where
[25:19] we want it for optimal thyroid function
[25:21] because , we need it to carry our thyroid
[25:23] hormones to the cells and all those good
[25:25] things for proper T4 to T3 conversion.
[25:29] But the other reasons why people
[25:31] might be low in ferritin, we think
[25:34] of it as like a supply and demand.
[25:36] So if you are, a woman with heavy
[25:38] menses, so this could be because you
[25:40] were hypothyroid for a time period, You
[25:43] could be losing a lot of blood in your
[25:45] menstrual cycle and then because you're
[25:48] already anemic, there's like this vicious
[25:51] cycle where if you're anemic, you're going
[25:53] to have heavy periods, which are then
[25:55] going to cause you to be more anemic.
[25:57] And so even having hypothyroidism for a
[26:00] short time period, which will cause heavy
[26:02] periods, can kind of lead to that effect.
[26:05] Or having low levels of progesterone.
[26:08] Or myo-inositol can also
[26:10] be very helpful with that.
[26:11] Or having methylation defic deficiencies
[26:14] in like the methylation co factors.
[26:17] Sometimes women will have very heavy
[26:19] clots in their menstrual cycles because
[26:21] they need more methylfolate, right?
[26:24] And these are some of the things
[26:26] that you would want to correct.
[26:27] You could have low levels
[26:29] of ferritin because you have
[26:31] an some unwanted visitors.
[26:33] So this could be something like,
[26:35] Giardia, it could be some kind of
[26:37] pathogens or SIBO that are taking
[26:40] whatever iron that you're eating and
[26:42] they're making biofilms with it, right?
[26:45] Instead of letting you have your iron,
[26:47] they're keeping it for themselves.
[26:49] So these are some of the things.
[26:51] There's also deficiencies in cofactors.
[26:53] our kidneys produce our EPO it won't show
[26:57] up on like kidney tests if you just use
[27:00] traditional, CBC, CMP, but people who have
[27:03] like ochrotoxin level elevations on their
[27:07] mycotoxins results, oftentimes we know
[27:10] that ochrotoxin is, nephrotoxic, right?
[27:13] And these people might have really
[27:14] low levels of ferritin, and I think
[27:17] it has something to do with EPO.
[27:18] So sometimes it's using actually
[27:21] traditional Chinese medicine
[27:22] herbs to help, address that
[27:25] kidney production of EPO.
[27:26] So a lot of times it's looking at what
[27:29] exactly is going on with this person and
[27:31] how to properly get their iron levels up.
[27:34] The thing that I oftentimes
[27:36] see, it's like, okay, you've got
[27:37] low ferritin, just eat more red
[27:39] meat and that works sometimes.
[27:40] And then you have, okay, just take an
[27:43] iron supplement and sometimes that works.
[27:44] Sometimes that makes
[27:45] people more constipated and
[27:46] doesn't
[27:47] improve their levels.
[27:48] other things that can be
[27:50] helpful for people with like
[27:51] gut issues would be lactoferrin.
[27:53] It helps to break up the biofilms and
[27:55] it also helps to bind the iron so it,
[27:59] comes to us rather than the pathogens.
[28:01] And then iron infusions are a way
[28:03] to kind of bypass that gut system.
[28:06] That was a lot of information.
[28:07] That's good.
[28:08] That's, I love it.
[28:08] For me, I've always been more interested
[28:12] in high ferritins because I see that
[28:14] oftentimes because ferritin is what
[28:17] we call an acute phase reactant.
[28:19] So as a result of that, if you have
[28:21] systemic inflammation, What can
[28:23] often happen is you can get this
[28:25] sort of anemia of chronic disease and
[28:27] anemia of chronic disease means you
[28:28] have normal stores of iron but you
[28:30] can't utilize them in various ways.
[28:32] You can't transfer the iron.
[28:33] That's something called transferring
[28:34] the ferritin is sort of the
[28:36] storage form of iron as well.
[28:38] So is it difficult sometimes with people?
[28:41] Like I could imagine if you
[28:42] have an autoimmune condition,
[28:43] you have systemic inflammation.
[28:44] Is it more difficult to know?
[28:46] Because like.
[28:47] Ferritin can be elevated in some
[28:48] people, maybe spuriously, but
[28:50] maybe it actually is quite low.
[28:51] And it's just an acute phase
[28:53] reacted in that capacity.
[28:54] Does that get complicated
[28:55] there a little bit?
[28:56] Like just in my experience looking at
[28:59] the lab results of everybody that I've
[29:01] tested over many, many years, majority
[29:04] of the people I've worked with are women.
[29:05] So I would say like 90 percent of
[29:07] the time it's women reaching out
[29:08] to me and I'm working with them.
[29:10] A majority of them have
[29:11] had low levels of ferritin.
[29:13] They're menstruating or they're losing
[29:14] a lot of blood with childbirth.
[29:16] Women have this capacity to
[29:18] manage their iron scores.
[29:20] With men, I have seen more often and
[29:23] when postmenopausal women where they have
[29:25] the elevated ferritin, um, and I don't
[29:28] have a ton of experience with that other
[29:30] than, you know, we talked about this
[29:32] with my husband who actually had elevated
[29:35] ferritin when we were living in Boulder.
[29:39] And he just did his ferritin labs
[29:42] and I think he hasn't done an iron
[29:43] infusions or I'm sorry, infusion.
[29:46] He doesn't do infusions.
[29:48] He does the opposite, right?
[29:49] Yeah.
[29:50] He used to do blood donations
[29:53] or therapeutic phlebotomies
[29:54] You have leeches at the house
[29:55] yet, by the way, I think you could
[29:56] just get some leeches, you know?
[29:57] Yeah, that would be really helpful.
[29:59] I would just put him on me, just
[30:01] spit it out, give me the rest.
[30:03] We used to have to do
[30:04] those every three months.
[30:06] I think his ferritin levels were like
[30:07] 400, 500, maybe 600 when he was initially
[30:11] diagnosed when we were living in Boulder
[30:12] and he had a ton of, symptoms of toxicity
[30:15] where we found that a lot of his symptoms
[30:18] sort of vanished when we went on a two
[30:20] week vacation to sea level and we were
[30:22] like, Oh, maybe you're just more relaxed.
[30:24] What's happening?
[30:25] My mom's found some random article about
[30:28] high altitude driving EPO production.
[30:32] And then we tested him for hemochromatosis
[30:34] genes, which he didn't have the first
[30:37] three, but he had type 4 hemochromatosis.
[30:39] We did Bob Miller's genetic test, and
[30:43] he had a theroportin gene variation
[30:46] where most people kind of manage
[30:49] their iron levels at elevation but
[30:51] , with the theroportin gene defect,
[30:53] he wasn't exporting it correctly.
[30:55] Had his last therapeutic phlebotomy,
[30:57] I want to say, end of 2020.
[31:00] And we just saw His, his ferritin
[31:03] levels have been like normal ever since.
[31:05] I think they were like, we just did
[31:06] them recently and they were like 134
[31:08] Amazing.
[31:09] Yeah,
[31:10] I mean, I would have been an advocate
[31:11] for you guys to stay in Colorado because
[31:13] you would have been my neighbor and
[31:14] you would have just gotten them some
[31:15] leeches and you know, not a big deal.
[31:17] So, but I can understand, you know,
[31:19] it sounds like being back at sea
[31:21] level is a good idea for him, but
[31:23] We'll come and visit.
[31:24] We do love Colorado and
[31:25] we miss it of course.
[31:26] But , it's just amazing how various
[31:29] genes can express themselves because
[31:32] this has never been an issue for him.
[31:34] right, right.
[31:35] C level.
[31:35] And then all of a sudden we
[31:36] were living at elevation.
[31:38] And so that was sort of expressing
[31:41] itself and that was an issue for him.
[31:43] And now I always wonder when I talk to
[31:46] people from Colorado, I'm like, huh,
[31:48] you've got high Farrington levels.
[31:51] That's interesting.
[31:52] Tell, tell me more.
[31:53] Right.
[31:53] Right.
[31:54] That's what I think there's a bias.
[31:55] It's called the recency biases.
[31:57] Doctors are very, subject to this.
[31:59] When we see somebody that has a certain
[32:00] condition, and it's something weird,
[32:03] usually, and we think that everybody
[32:04] around that person, all of our other
[32:06] clients, who do they have that too?
[32:08] They may have that kind of
[32:09] weird, zebra at the same time.
[32:11] So
[32:12] Yeah.
[32:12] I get very suspicious of everybody
[32:14] that has high Farrington.
[32:15] That's like the first question I
[32:17] would ask is I would be like, huh.
[32:19] Where do you live?
[32:20] Right?
[32:22] But, um, yeah, definitely there's
[32:23] a lot of drivers to that, such
[32:25] as inflammation in general.
[32:27] Yeah, I mean, the expression of genes
[32:28] is such an interesting world to write.
[32:30] This is a genetic abnormality, right?
[32:32] But it's still people think that there's
[32:33] like sort of like a zero sum game here.
[32:35] If you have a genetic thing, it's
[32:37] going to express 100 percent or if
[32:38] you don't have a genetics thing and
[32:39] you don't have any problems, right?
[32:40] But then there is genetic
[32:42] expression of these kinds of things.
[32:43] And there's also the epigenetic
[32:45] expression related to the
[32:47] regulation of these genes as well.
[32:48] So there's like so many
[32:49] different factors, but yeah.
[32:50] Not to go down that rabbit hole for now.
[32:52] I want to go.
[32:53] So I wanted to go and talk about the one.
[32:56] Major nutrient that everybody cares about,
[32:59] that I know you have some significant
[33:00] thoughts about, which is iodine and
[33:02] how iodine plays a role as far as
[33:05] deficiency, toxicity, optimal levels.
[33:08] What are your thoughts here?
[33:09] Because I know you've spoken about
[33:10] iodized salt, for example, and how
[33:12] that may not be a good thing, and
[33:14] other kinds of ideas around that.
[33:15] It's a very controversial nutrient and
[33:18] like the, our little thyroid community.
[33:21] There's like the pro iodine and
[33:22] the anti iodine camp and we fight
[33:24] with each other every now and then.
[33:25] But mostly we just appreciate
[33:27] each other and the work that we
[33:29] all do, in advocating for people.
[33:32] When I first started with my
[33:33] own health journey, I kind of
[33:35] wondered, do you need high iodine?
[33:38] Iodine obviously makes up thyroid
[33:40] hormones, so it would seem logical
[33:42] that if you had low levels of thyroid
[33:43] hormones, you would need more iodine.
[33:46] And of course, this
[33:46] is , the truth and the case.
[33:48] In hypothyroidism, that is
[33:49] non autoimmune in origin.
[33:51] So countries that do not add iodine
[33:54] to the salt supply, that don't
[33:55] have an iodization program, that
[33:56] don't have an iodization program.
[33:58] They do have higher levels of
[33:59] hypothyroidism and researchers,
[34:01] public health officials
[34:02] always looking out for us.
[34:03] They're like, oh, People are becoming
[34:06] hypothyroid because they're low in iodine.
[34:08] Let's give everybody iodine in their
[34:10] salts like this is gonna be amazing.
[34:12] Nobody's gonna have hypothyroidism
[34:14] and wishful thinking I would
[34:15] hope that would be the case.
[34:16] But unfortunately, we've got
[34:17] these individuals with genetic
[34:19] predispositions That when they have
[34:22] too much iodine, they're going to
[34:24] develop autoimmune hypothyroidism.
[34:26] They did some studies in like Iran,
[34:28] and parts of Eastern Europe, where
[34:30] they had people before, you know,
[34:34] their rates of Hashimoto's before
[34:36] iodization, and their rates after.
[34:38] And oftentimes, within 5 to 10 years, they
[34:41] were double, triple, sometimes quadruple.
[34:44] When they started adding iodine to
[34:45] the salt supply and it and again, it's
[34:47] one of those nuances where you can't
[34:49] tell everybody to do the same exact
[34:50] thing because we're all individuals.
[34:53] So people that are genetically susceptible
[34:55] to Hashimoto's hypothyroidism autoimmune
[34:59] hypothyroidism, they're going to have
[35:01] a harder time with iodine excess.
[35:05] What is iodine excess?
[35:07] Anything above like
[35:08] 300 micrograms per day?
[35:10] Anything above 350 micrograms?
[35:12] The amount that's in a multivitamin,
[35:14] prenatal, generally fine for most people,
[35:17] even with Hashimoto's, even when they're
[35:19] taking thyroid medications, taking that
[35:22] will actually help thyroid function,
[35:24] potentially reduce their autoimmunity,
[35:26] but you've got to keep it in balance
[35:28] because the dose determines whether
[35:30] something is a toxin or a remedy, and
[35:32] doses above that can become toxic.
[35:35] I know there's some practitioners
[35:37] that use milligram doses, and I've
[35:38] had, unfortunately, many clients.
[35:40] That have come to me and they were
[35:41] like, my TSH was like at a five
[35:43] and I had some thyroid antibodies
[35:46] and I wasn't feeling great.
[35:48] And so I saw somebody that gave me
[35:50] high dose iodine and they're like,
[35:52] next thing I know I was bedridden.
[35:53] My antibodies went to 2000 and my TSH
[35:56] is at like a hundred and what do you do?
[35:58] And for those people, I would put them
[35:59] on a lower iodine kind of plan for
[36:02] a few months under 100 micrograms.
[36:05] And then, what we focus on,
[36:06] liver, adrenals, gut, nutrient
[36:08] sufficiency, trying to figure
[36:09] out what chronic infections are
[36:11] driving your autoimmune response.
[36:13] Because in my experience, a lot
[36:15] of times it's chronic infections
[36:17] for people that don't get better
[36:18] with, the gluten free diet or,
[36:20] you know, basic
[36:21] nutrition.
[36:22] And then, their thyroid
[36:23] antibodies would come down and
[36:24] they'd start feeling human again.
[36:26] And that TSH would get normalized
[36:28] or, back to five or maybe to four.
[36:31] There are some studies that show
[36:34] that iodine restriction can normalize
[36:36] hypothyroidism in subclinical cases.
[36:40] I will say the studies
[36:41] were very convincing.
[36:42] I haven't seen that clinically as much as
[36:45] I would like to, where I've maybe had, , a
[36:48] percentage of people where I'm like, okay,
[36:51] this has actually worked well for you.
[36:52] So my take this time is not like that.
[36:55] ultra low iodine and it's also
[36:57] not like high dose iodine.
[36:59] the amount that's in a prenatal
[37:00] or a multivitamin is probably
[37:02] going to be the best fit for you.
[37:03] But seaweed snacks, all of that,
[37:06] extra intake of iodine, that
[37:08] can be toxic for some people.
[37:09] I've had clients with like new
[37:10] onset Hashimoto's because they
[37:11] were eating like seaweed snacks
[37:13] or a bunch of things like that
[37:15] where,
[37:15] I mean, yeah, there's
[37:16] not that many sources.
[37:18] I'm sorry to try it.
[37:18] I was just, it's not that many sources of
[37:20] iodine in the diet now though, as well.
[37:21] have you found any good ways
[37:22] to test as far as I know, there
[37:24] really aren't that many great
[37:25] ways to test for iodine as well.
[37:26] Right.
[37:27] I've gone down the rabbit hole of
[37:28] that and I've come back with nothing.
[37:30] You could do the patch test.
[37:31] I'm like, eh, does that really work?
[37:33] And you could do like a urine test,
[37:34] but that it's great for population
[37:37] testing, but it's reflects the your
[37:39] iodine intake in the last 24 hours.
[37:41] I feel like there isn't
[37:42] as great of a test for it.
[37:44] If you are human, you should run
[37:46] because running is good for you.
[37:48] But if you have a broken leg, you
[37:49] probably shouldn't run, right?
[37:50] If you have, adrenal fatigue,
[37:53] running's gonna make you worse.
[37:54] And it's all those nuances where I
[37:56] kind of get annoyed with this
[37:57] advice that everybody should do.
[37:58] Just because you have a
[37:59] thyroid, you should take iodine.
[38:00] I'm like, no, that doesn't work that way.
[38:02] Right.
[38:03] Yeah.
[38:03] Are there certain foods in the
[38:05] diet now that we're getting iodine
[38:06] from or is it mostly from prenatals
[38:08] and other supplements that you're
[38:09] seeing most people get their iodine?
[38:11] I mean, iodized salt, of
[38:12] course, has iodine in it.
[38:14] So typically I recommend people switch
[38:17] that out because I did an analysis
[38:19] of the standard American diet and
[38:22] I would say the average person's
[38:23] probably getting like a thousand
[38:26] micrograms plus a day doses of like
[38:30] 150 to 350 are probably what they need.
[38:34] So just iodized salt is one
[38:36] thing that I would recommend.
[38:37] Potentially toss and then eggs
[38:39] and some seafood products have
[38:42] iodine in it, but, generally I
[38:44] would say the iodized salt is out
[38:47] and then
[38:47] are you saying that I have to stop giving
[38:49] my kids their their seaweed snacks or
[38:52] is it okay to keep the seaweed snacks?
[38:53] What do you think?
[38:53] Do you have a history of hypothyroidism
[38:57] or Hashimoto's in your family?
[38:58] Do they have symptoms of Hashimoto's?
[39:00] Are they losing hair?
[39:01] No, my kids are fine.
[39:02] They're young and they like seaweed snack.
[39:04] I never really thought about it as being
[39:05] an excess item and I always actually
[39:06] thought about it and they weren't
[39:07] getting enough maybe from other sources,
[39:09] but I'm interested in your thought.
[39:11] Yeah.
[39:12] I mean, I don't give them to
[39:13] my son because he's my son.
[39:14] I have Hashimoto's, right?
[39:15] So, but for if you or your wife
[39:18] don't have a history of it, then I
[39:20] would not worry as much about it.
[39:22] Cool.
[39:22] That's good to know.
[39:23] Thank you for the personal note.
[39:24] You kind of feed kids what
[39:25] they'll eat, you know, right?
[39:27] Yeah, yeah.
[39:28] I have one daughter that's very picky
[39:29] and she seems to like seaweed snacks.
[39:31] Kids are very intuitive as well on
[39:33] the sense of what their body needs.
[39:35] If I put them in front of sugar and pizza,
[39:36] they're not going to stop until it's done.
[39:39] Of course,
[39:39] it intuitively.
[39:40] Otherwise, I tend to feel that they're
[39:42] pretty good at knowing and regulating
[39:45] if you give them that opportunity.
[39:46] So I'm just interested because
[39:48] she's Always gravitates towards
[39:49] them, interestingly enough.
[39:50] So, but,
[39:51] I love that.
[39:52] I love that.
[39:52] It's, it's, they did a study
[39:53] of like baby lead weaning.
[39:55] Yeah.
[39:55] Of children who were deficient
[39:57] in various things and there
[39:59] was a nurse letting them pick.
[40:01] I think these were maybe like one year
[40:03] olds or six months to like two year olds.
[40:05] And they intuitively went for the foods
[40:08] that contained whatever they were missing.
[40:10] Yeah, it's beautiful.
[40:11] And you can see that.
[40:12] I'm sure you've seen that a
[40:13] little bit on your side, but I've
[40:14] definitely seen that on mine.
[40:16] Just looking at the intuitive nature of
[40:18] what they eat and what they don't eat.
[40:19] Although they call me like I always tell
[40:21] them the only place I'll eat pizza is
[40:23] that at two o'clock in the morning,
[40:25] about 10 minutes from my house where
[40:26] I grew up in New York, because I'm
[40:28] just not going to eat that anymore.
[40:29] Yeah, I mean, yeah,
[40:31] you've got your things.
[40:32] Yeah, interestingly,
[40:33] my son loves red meat.
[40:35] We did a test on him and he was like low
[40:37] in carnitine and I was like, there you go.
[40:39] That's, you know, he and I had, incredible
[40:42] burger cravings when I was pregnant.
[40:44] And you
[40:45] know, I had low ferritin and potentially
[40:47] my son needed more carnitine.
[40:48] I was like, it makes sense.
[40:50] It makes sense.
[40:50] It's like when we tune into our
[40:52] bodies, it can, it can really
[40:54] give us that message, right?
[40:55] Of what we need.
[40:57] Yeah, I don't think we
[40:57] mentioned carnitine actually.
[40:58] Do you want to go into that a little bit
[40:59] as far as carnitine's role in all this?
[41:00] Yes.
[41:01] Yes.
[41:01] Yes, absolutely.
[41:03] So this is another thing that I wasn't
[41:04] aware of on my own healing journey when I
[41:07] first started, but it, I used to think of
[41:09] it like I think many practitioners still
[41:11] might as something you would utilize for
[41:14] a person with hyperthyroidism, right?
[41:17] To prevent that muscle wasting
[41:19] and regulate the thyroid hormones.
[41:22] And we used to think that
[41:23] it was a thyroid antagonist.
[41:25] I think that the new research supports
[41:28] that it's a mixed agonist, and so it
[41:31] A mixed.
[41:32] yes.
[41:33] Okay.
[41:33] Can you define what a mixed agonist means?
[41:35] oh my goodness, you're taking me
[41:36] all the way back to pharmacy school.
[41:38] So, so essentially it can,
[41:41] regulate the receptor.
[41:42] So if you have too much,
[41:43] it will block them.
[41:45] And if you don't have enough,
[41:46] it'll kind of activate them, right?
[41:48] And so, so that is the thought process
[41:52] of its mechanism of action, and it's
[41:55] been found to be incredibly helpful
[41:57] for people with thyroid fatigue.
[41:59] Specifically, 2, 000 milligrams per day.
[42:02] One of the things I typically see
[42:04] in a percentage of people with
[42:05] hypothyroidism, they might have muscle
[42:07] wasting, they might have brain fog,
[42:09] they might have that awful fatigue,
[42:12] and potentially some excess weight.
[42:14] is giving them some carnitine
[42:16] that can wake up their brain
[42:17] really, really quickly.
[42:18] It's all of a sudden, that is
[42:20] going to be a big game changer.
[42:21] And I don't know if it's mitochondrial
[42:23] function that it supports, it's thyroid
[42:25] function, it helps to clear ammonia
[42:27] out of the body when we know people
[42:29] with hypothyroidism might have issues
[42:31] with low stomach acid, so then they're
[42:33] producing more ammonia, and then they
[42:34] might have different kind of microbes
[42:36] that, produce ammonia, which of course
[42:38] can be neurotoxic or that constipation.
[42:40] Needless to say, this has also been
[42:42] a very big game changer for a lot of
[42:45] people and it's part of my adrenal
[42:47] transformation protocol that is this
[42:49] four week program that doesn't really
[42:52] focus on like pregnenolone all these
[42:55] great things that I used to recommend.
[42:57] It mostly focuses on
[42:59] mitochondrial support and.
[43:01] carnitine and adaptogens and
[43:03] really those safety signals.
[43:05] And this gets people like remarkably
[43:08] better within like three to four weeks.
[43:10] people, like we're more, we're more likely
[43:14] to do better with our lifestyle changes.
[43:18] I use a mix of both.
[43:19] So acetyl, acetyl carnitine we know
[43:21] is great for brain function, right?
[43:23] And, I feel like that's
[43:24] probably the biggest needle
[43:25] mover for people with brain fog.
[43:27] And then the L carnitine is great for,
[43:29] the body and utilization of fatty acids.
[43:32] And that helps people with.
[43:33] Preserving muscle strength as well as, a
[43:35] lot of times people with hypothyroidism
[43:37] may have a little bit of excess weight.
[43:38] So we can help with that.
[43:40] Okay.
[43:40] Interesting.
[43:41] Cool.
[43:41] So I want to talk a little bit
[43:42] about also the things that sort
[43:44] of destroy thyroid function.
[43:45] We talked a little bit about this already
[43:46] and we can start with the infections,
[43:48] which I, I didn't know about H.
[43:50] pylori specifically.
[43:51] You mentioned H.
[43:51] pylori is a very common cause or a
[43:53] trigger or something like a Hashimoto's
[43:56] diagnosis or the progression thereof,
[43:58] which I know can take a long time.
[44:00] I think I heard in your
[44:02] particular experience.
[44:03] It was about 10 years before
[44:04] you were actually diagnosed.
[44:05] Maybe if somebody had tested
[44:07] you earlier, you would have seen
[44:08] thyroid antibodies much earlier.
[44:09] I'm sure that's been the case, but what
[44:11] are some of the, infectious toxins,
[44:13] other types of toxins that we're seeing
[44:15] now that are causing this safety issue
[44:18] with the thyroid and making it Go wacko.
[44:20] I grew up on the border of Ukraine.
[44:22] I grew up in Poland.
[44:24] And, uh, you know, Chernobyl.
[44:27] Like the radiation.
[44:28] This is a really powerful driver of
[44:31] thyroid illness and autoimmunity.
[44:33] There was a super interesting
[44:35] study about the the rates of
[44:41] Hashimoto's antibodies in children
[44:43] exposed to Chernobyl like downwind
[44:47] versus in another part of Belarus.
[44:49] The rates were like remarkably
[44:51] different where it was something
[44:52] like 10 to 15% and 80%.
[44:54] So this is like a really powerful
[44:57] driver of autoimmune thyroid disease.
[45:00] airplane pilots and stewardesses.
[45:01] those are under most radiation because of
[45:04] being on airplanes have higher rates too.
[45:05] i don't know if you are aware or no
[45:08] Honestly, I think that makes sense
[45:09] 'cause a lot of my clients are
[45:10] actually pilots and stewardess
[45:12] and they have, a medication.
[45:13] It was called anatabine.
[45:15] And it was, out, maybe you
[45:17] might be able to get it at like
[45:18] Nootropic Depot or whatnot.
[45:20] But it was developed for
[45:22] pilots and stewardesses.
[45:23] They had higher rates of Hashimoto's
[45:25] compared to the average population.
[45:27] It's a supplement.
[45:28] Not on the market anymore, but it actually
[45:30] worked really well to reduce Hashimoto's
[45:31] antibodies and Hashimoto's symptoms.
[45:33] There are also, lower rates of
[45:36] Hashimoto's in smokers compared to
[45:38] non smokers, and quitting smoking can
[45:40] actually be an environmental trigger.
[45:42] They found that the flight attendants and
[45:45] the flight crew on flights that allowed
[45:47] smoking had lower rates of Hashimoto's
[45:50] compared to you know, flight attendants
[45:54] that were on flights that were smoke free.
[45:56] So I think there's definitely, things
[45:59] that really offset our immune system.
[46:01] And maybe radiation does this, and then
[46:03] smoking does this, and then you put them
[46:04] together, and they sort of balance each
[46:06] other out in some strange way, right?
[46:08] Yeah, nicotine is an interesting one.
[46:09] I didn't realize that
[46:10] that had a correlation.
[46:11] We know that certain types of
[46:13] inflammatory bowel disease, for example,
[46:15] if you're a smoker, you have a much
[46:16] lower rate and much less complication.
[46:18] If you, I think it's Crohn,
[46:19] it's ulcerative colitis.
[46:20] I believe if
[46:21] And they're reversed.
[46:22] Like one is, one gets worse by it
[46:24] and the other one gets better and
[46:25] you're like, okay, let's, let's
[46:26] figure out which part of the, which
[46:28] part of your colon's affected so
[46:29] we know what to give you, right?
[46:30] it's a medical board exam.
[46:31] And it's a question that you
[46:33] always get on the medical board.
[46:33] It's like chronic smoker, you know,
[46:35] comes in with X, which whichever
[46:36] one it is, I always forget, but I
[46:38] didn't realize that nicotine was
[46:40] potentially protective in this case.
[46:41] I use it when people stop.
[46:43] Or when they stop smoking,
[46:44] that can actually have
[46:45] symptoms occur at that point.
[46:46] That's been studied, huh?
[46:48] Yeah, I'll give you my article
[46:49] on anatabine for the show notes.
[46:51] It hasn't been out for a long time,
[46:52] but I still keep the article and it
[46:54] used to work really, really well.
[46:55] So, so we know that radiation can be a
[46:58] big trigger and a lot of my clients, like
[46:59] I said, are pilots and flight attendants.
[47:01] And I was like, How random is that?
[47:03] And there's actually a
[47:04] connection with that.
[47:06] The other, we talked
[47:07] about iodine, of course.
[47:08] Then there's, mold toxins, mycotoxins.
[47:11] I mean, what doesn't mold hurt, right?
[47:14] Like, that can be a
[47:15] trigger for many people.
[47:16] H.
[47:17] pylori, I find in people with, that
[47:20] acid reflux, they have really
[47:21] high thyroid antibodies, and their
[47:24] symptoms are exacerbated by stress.
[47:27] That is going to be a really
[47:28] big, relevant triggers.
[47:30] I've had some clients
[47:31] with just treating that.
[47:32] They're like, okay, no more Hashimoto's.
[47:34] Not everybody.
[47:35] I wish everybody was like, I wish
[47:37] everybody was like one cause.
[47:38] And then I would be like, so happy.
[47:40] Cause I'd be like a,
[47:41] magician with my magic wand.
[47:43] Just like, boom, boom,
[47:44] boom.
[47:44] would all just follow a book.
[47:45] It'd be easy, right?
[47:46] Yeah.
[47:47] Yeah.
[47:47] But, but there's usually
[47:48] a few different causes.
[47:50] The other one is the parasite.
[47:52] It's a protozoal parasite
[47:53] called blastocystis hominis.
[47:55] I started noticing these patterns in
[47:57] 2014 when I was using BioHealth, which is
[48:01] like a lab where they would do old school
[48:03] parasite testing, like under a microscope.
[48:05] I just tore into California.
[48:07] And I would say about 30 percent of my
[48:09] clients had blasto in their stool tests.
[48:13] And then treating that, we would
[48:15] be able to get people, their
[48:17] digestive function improves there.
[48:19] Thyroid function improves, their
[48:21] thyroid antibodies drop, a lot of
[48:23] their symptoms would get better.
[48:24] And I was like, huh, this
[48:25] is kind of interesting.
[48:27] And
[48:27] How are you treating it, by the way?
[48:28] How are you treating the blasto?
[48:29] there's a few different ways.
[48:31] , I used to be very aggressive with Alinea.
[48:33] So I would say like, oh, okay,
[48:35] if you've got this, you know,
[48:36] let's get a prescription.
[48:37] are a pharmacist after all.
[48:39] know, I
[48:39] love, I love my drugs, right?
[48:41] But, I would do that with Alinea
[48:43] for like, 60 days because I had read
[48:45] that it's resistant to everything
[48:46] and it's like you have it and you're
[48:48] going to be miserable forever.
[48:50] And then that does work, but because
[48:53] it can have metronidazole resistance.
[48:55] I came across other protocols like,
[48:57] Wormwood, berberine, oil of oregano
[48:59] for 60 days, that seemed to work.
[49:01] And then I came across a study
[49:03] done in children that using
[49:04] sarcomyces boulardii for, like,
[49:07] It was like 14 to 30 days helped
[49:09] eliminate it in 80 percent of cases.
[49:12] And I was like, oh, so now I just
[49:14] pretty much recommend boulardii
[49:15] for everybody for like 60 days.
[49:17] And that's a starting point.
[49:18] And I think that that'll take
[49:19] care of it for most people.
[49:20] I have seen people who I've given
[49:22] boulardii to where it doesn't get better.
[49:25] And then that case, you know, I
[49:26] might be like, okay, let's talk
[49:28] to your doctor about some Alinea.
[49:29] Like, let's get you some
[49:29] of the, heavy guns.
[49:30] But for most people, resistance rates
[49:33] might vary depending on the strain that
[49:35] you have and the testing that I use isn't
[49:38] necessarily Differentiating the strains.
[49:41] But for most people, I feel like
[49:43] boulardii is the way to go.
[49:45] I've had a lot of
[49:45] experience treating blasto.
[49:46] So it's just interesting to hear yours.
[49:48] I've, I haven't tried Alinea.
[49:49] I've always been successful using
[49:51] a combination of Berberine and oil
[49:52] of oregano, but then in recently
[49:55] I've just started adding in
[49:57] the BR, the boulardii as well.
[49:59] And that's been game changing.
[50:00] So I've been using all three.
[50:01] I don't know.
[50:01] It sounds like you, you've just
[50:02] had just with the BRD by itself.
[50:04] You've had some good experiences.
[50:06] Even just boulardii by itself.
[50:08] But if you were to get a little
[50:09] bit more aggressive, I would do.
[50:10] I think those three are
[50:11] like a perfect combination.
[50:13] I mean, they're generally safe.
[50:14] I used to recommend like Artemisia,
[50:16] but then I get really nervous
[50:17] about people's liver function.
[50:19] I had, one client with elevated
[50:21] liver enzymes and being a pharmacist,
[50:23] I'm like, no, no, like, I don't
[50:25] like adverse reactions to anything.
[50:27] I think that's a really great protocol
[50:29] that will help most people feel better.
[50:30] Of course, Berberine, I have
[50:32] found an oil of oregano for people
[50:34] like inflammatory bowel disease.
[50:35] That can be very aggravating,
[50:38] so you might need to be more
[50:39] gentle with that population.
[50:41] I've certainly had a number of
[50:42] people start all of oregano and
[50:44] just have, terrible disaster
[50:45] pants and we have had to stop it.
[50:47] It can be very, very helpful, but if
[50:48] people can't tolerate, especially if
[50:50] they have other GI related things going
[50:52] on, but I didn't mean to derail you.
[50:53] I was just interested in blasto.
[50:54] So you're, you were mentioning
[50:55] some of these other toxins,
[50:57] some of these infections.
[50:58] So you mentioned blastocysts being
[51:00] a common one that you saw that you
[51:01] were treating and seeing significant
[51:03] benefit with thyroid antibodies.
[51:04] Were there any others that
[51:05] you wanted to mention?
[51:07] I think Epstein Barr virus, people
[51:09] will ask why I didn't talk about that.
[51:11] I think it could be very, very relevant
[51:13] for a lot of people for sure, but it's
[51:15] not, clickbait and everybody has Epstein
[51:18] Barr virus, it's the cause of everything.
[51:20] That's kind of easy to say because
[51:21] everybody has had it, of course
[51:23] they're gonna test positive for it.
[51:24] I have had some people with
[51:26] reactivated, Epstein Barr virus,
[51:29] and nothing's getting better.
[51:31] They tried herbal things, and they
[51:33] tried working with their, prescriptions.
[51:35] And then, strangely, they've had blasto.
[51:38] And I think there's like this,
[51:40] again, some sort of teeter totter
[51:42] with like the, how microbes interact.
[51:44] And I know that blasto can
[51:47] deplete us of Was it lysine?
[51:49] And then arginine can help fight it.
[51:51] So I don't know if it just sets
[51:53] some weird amino acid cascade off
[51:55] or have no idea what's going on.
[51:57] But long story short, we treated the
[51:58] blasto and it's like Epstein Barr
[52:00] virus is no longer, expressing itself.
[52:03] Or they had mold exposure
[52:04] or something like that.
[52:05] And then, you treat that and that,
[52:09] then the Epstein Barr virus gets better.
[52:10] Or like they have methylation issues.
[52:13] And so you give them methylfolate.
[52:14] So I'll do that, and I
[52:16] like Lomation for it.
[52:18] But honestly, I wish it was like,
[52:19] Oh, everybody has this, everybody
[52:20] should just take antivirals for it.
[52:23] It hasn't been that
[52:24] straightforward for me.
[52:25] There's things, I think in the literature,
[52:27] take SIBO, for example, as a cause of IBS.
[52:29] Like, people will talk about,
[52:31] that's the cause, that's the cause.
[52:33] But then when you actually work with
[52:34] real people, you're like, I was sure this
[52:36] was the cause, but you don't have this.
[52:38] What, what am I going to do now?
[52:39] Right?
[52:40] Yeah, yeah, I feel like 100 percent
[52:43] online in line here with you because
[52:45] when I think about EVV reactivation or
[52:47] EVV by itself, typically, unless they're
[52:49] very young and have an initial acute
[52:50] exposure, even a lot of things like
[52:52] Lyme disease and mold for many people
[52:54] have been ongoing for many, many years
[52:56] and all of a sudden they have some sort
[52:58] of threshold event where their immune
[52:59] system just goes haywire and COVID as
[53:03] I'm sure you saw in your own experience.
[53:04] And especially, I mean, as, as you
[53:07] mentioned, Myself included in my practice
[53:09] as well, and I found that People were
[53:12] going after these kinds of things like
[53:14] the EBVs, the world, the HHV 6s of the
[53:16] world, and other kinds of even Lyme and
[53:18] mold, which you may have to address,
[53:21] but if you're not addressing that sort
[53:22] of base immune system function aspect
[53:24] of things, you're not going to get
[53:26] them better on those other aspects.
[53:28] It's been my experience too.
[53:29] Yeah, it's kind of interesting because
[53:31] I'm not like a Lyme literate practitioner.
[53:34] I'm very intimidated by Lyme, and
[53:36] I used to be like very intimidated
[53:37] by mold, and I used to be
[53:38] intimidated by inflammatory bowel.
[53:41] I used to be intimidated by eczema, but
[53:43] I knew thyroid and Hashimoto's really
[53:44] well, and then I'll like come across a
[53:46] topic, and I'll be like, oh, this is so
[53:48] scary, and then I'll be like, wait, a lot
[53:50] of the things I used for thyroid work.
[53:53] Holy cow, like that, and sometimes
[53:55] it's simpler than we think it is.
[53:56] I still don't, if somebody came to
[53:57] me with Lyme, I'd be like, let me
[53:59] take you to my friend across the way
[54:01] because I'm not comfortable with it.
[54:02] But it's amazing how sometimes some of
[54:04] these same patterns show up that could
[54:06] really offset the immune system, right?
[54:08] Right.
[54:08] And that's why I think it's so
[54:09] important to have a foundational
[54:11] approach, no matter what is going on.
[54:13] And I was mentioning to you before
[54:15] we started, we have a nonprofit that
[54:16] sponsors the podcast that it's called
[54:18] health optimization medicine and practice.
[54:20] And the idea is to, that root
[54:22] cause medicine is very real.
[54:23] It's a very needed, but if you're just
[54:25] focused on a symptom or a disease,
[54:26] sometimes you can miss the larger picture.
[54:29] And As you know, your protocols
[54:31] for Hashimoto's oftentimes will
[54:32] work for people with Lyme or
[54:33] people with mold exposure or people
[54:35] with other viral reactivations.
[54:37] And so that means that there is
[54:39] these foundational things that
[54:40] all of us can really benefit from.
[54:42] And as clinicians, it's great for us to
[54:44] be able to look at things, not always with
[54:45] the disease lens and looking at it again,
[54:48] just from a foundational perspective.
[54:50] I appreciate that perspective too.
[54:51] Right.
[54:53] Right.
[54:54] you know, fluoride can be another toxin,
[54:57] that excess can cause hypothyroidism.
[55:00] It used to be I believe, to
[55:01] treat hyperthyroidism before
[55:03] meds for it were available.
[55:06] And to your point about the foundational
[55:08] things, one of the things that made my
[55:10] Hashimoto's Protocol very popular And
[55:13] this was pure accident, just me having
[55:16] a client like when I first started
[55:18] working with clients, I was like, Ooh,
[55:19] let's do all of these tests on you.
[55:22] This is going to be fun.
[55:23] And I'm going to review
[55:23] this test and this test.
[55:24] And it's like a thousand dollars later
[55:26] and they're still having symptoms.
[55:28] And I'm like, try this B vitamin.
[55:29] And they're like, I can't, it gives
[55:31] me palpitations or everything.
[55:33] You know, I'm like, go gluten free.
[55:34] And they're like, I
[55:35] don't feel any different.
[55:36] And then I started giving
[55:38] people, liver support.
[55:40] Just like a few different
[55:41] supplements for liver support.
[55:43] And I had all these people with like
[55:45] multiple chemical sensitivities,
[55:46] people who weren't able to tolerate
[55:48] supplements, people who weren't
[55:50] getting better with anything,
[55:52] just get better within two weeks.
[55:54] And I was like, Huh.
[55:56] And it's kind of like, you
[55:58] know, that root cause approach.
[55:59] I would be like, let's run 75
[56:01] different tests on you and see
[56:03] which exact toxins you have.
[56:05] And then I will find something
[56:06] very specific to move that toxin.
[56:09] Or I didn't have to do any of that.
[56:10] I would still do the test, but then I'd
[56:12] be like, here, do this for two weeks,
[56:14] go to the sauna, make sure you're
[56:16] sweating, don't heat up your food and
[56:18] don't put your spaghetti in plastic,
[56:20] right, in the microwave, and do some
[56:22] of these like low hanging fruit, get
[56:24] a fluoride filter, don't do iodine,
[56:25] excess iodine, so on and so forth.
[56:29] And that's it.
[56:30] Get some liver reset on board, some
[56:31] amino acids, some things that support
[56:34] phase two elimination, get some NAC,
[56:37] liver gallbladder support, magnesium,
[56:39] and they would get better and then I
[56:40] wouldn't have to be like, here are
[56:43] your test results six weeks later,
[56:45] and you are, elevated in this, right?
[56:47] I don't even know, like, a lot
[56:48] of the toxicity tests, I don't
[56:50] necessarily do as much because I
[56:52] don't know how accurate they are.
[56:53] And the other thing that I just learned,
[56:56] So I'm pretty well versed in mold these
[56:57] days, as of a few years ago, but I
[56:59] didn't know this when I developed the
[57:01] protocols, is a lot of those, a lot
[57:04] of that liver support actually moves
[57:05] mold mycotoxins out of the body, too.
[57:08] And I was like, oh, somehow, these
[57:10] people had mold, it wasn't even on
[57:11] my radar, but I was helping them
[57:13] move it out of their bodies, right?
[57:15] Yeah.
[57:16] When it comes to liver support, did
[57:17] you have a particular supplement that
[57:19] you would use or was it like a battery
[57:21] of things that you just described?
[57:22] Like I know there's a number of
[57:23] companies that have various types
[57:24] of liver support, liver cleanses.
[57:26] I just don't know if you
[57:26] have any particular favorites
[57:27] that seem to work best.
[57:29] Yeah, so I would use like a methylation
[57:32] support supplement, either from Designs
[57:35] for Health or from pure encapsulations,
[57:38] a lot of different companies make them.
[57:40] I actually make them now with Rootcology,
[57:42] and it's just called methylation support.
[57:44] So it's B vitamins
[57:45] and, trimethylglycine.
[57:48] So for your folate, your B2, your
[57:50] B6, B12, to support that methylation
[57:54] pathway, and obviously methylfolate.
[57:57] And then I would use N acetylcysteine,
[57:59] and then I would use like, something like
[58:02] Oxfile with liver supporting nutrients,
[58:05] so anything that can thin the bile.
[58:07] That would be helpful, like dandelion,
[58:11] beetroot powder, and then I would
[58:13] focus on doing like a magnesium
[58:15] citrate because I used to use binders,
[58:18] but then everybody got constipated.
[58:20] Or, not everybody, some people
[58:22] did, and you want them eliminating
[58:24] when they're binding up their
[58:25] toxins, so you want them pooping.
[58:27] And then I would do like a liver powder,
[58:29] so there's various companies, like
[58:31] Cymogen makes one, I make one with
[58:33] Rootcology, Designs for Health makes one,
[58:36] Orthomolecular, everybody, every company
[58:37] has their own thing, and it's usually
[58:40] like milk thistle, and N acetylcysteine,
[58:42] a whole bunch of amino acids.
[58:44] And then, like a solid amino acid
[58:47] supplement that contains calcium
[58:49] degluterate and a bunch of different
[58:51] amino acids that help with that
[58:53] phase two, liver transformation
[58:55] to move all the toxins out.
[58:57] And it's like, Oh, I didn't even
[58:59] know that I was working on old
[59:01] toxicity or this kind of toxicity.
[59:03] And I kind of learn
[59:04] about it as time goes on.
[59:06] Yeah, the back way.
[59:07] I like that because This is the
[59:08] way I think about things too.
[59:10] You could test for every single
[59:11] toxicity, but if you already have
[59:12] indications that they're under a huge
[59:14] oxidative load, if they have signs
[59:17] of oxidative stress, if they're a
[59:18] vitamin mineral nutrient deficient, and
[59:20] they have a clinical picture that is
[59:22] showing you that they're under stress.
[59:23] Very likely, they're going to need
[59:25] this kind of support, whether I'm
[59:26] testing for glyphosate levels or
[59:29] even mold on some levels as well.
[59:31] Now, not to say that certain
[59:32] times don't require you to get
[59:34] the treatment for mold, of course.
[59:35] And of course, also for Lyme disease,
[59:37] I have a lot of Lyme literate
[59:39] friends that do a lot of great work
[59:40] in this world, and they're doing
[59:42] active treatment for Lyme as well.
[59:44] I've talked to a couple of these people,
[59:46] my friends, for a long time, it's
[59:47] like, They've gone away from treating
[59:50] the active Lyme initially as much as
[59:52] well and working on some of the things
[59:54] that you're just describing, right?
[59:55] And working on the inflammatory responses,
[59:57] working on the detoxification pathways,
[59:59] because I mean, I grew up in New York.
[1:00:01] Most of us that grew up on the
[1:00:03] East Coast were exposed to Lyme
[1:00:05] at some point or the other.
[1:00:06] And in the South exposed to mold
[1:00:09] someplace or the other because it's wet.
[1:00:12] It's humid in Colorado.
[1:00:14] Only your husband can't come here
[1:00:15] because of his genetic thing, but the
[1:00:17] rest of it, it's not very moldy here.
[1:00:18] Typically, although Joe Carnahan,
[1:00:20] a practitioner up here, we'll
[1:00:21] talk about her stories with mold
[1:00:23] and because of severe floods.
[1:00:25] So anyway, just to say that.
[1:00:26] I'm with you.
[1:00:27] I think that working on these foundational
[1:00:29] measures is really important.
[1:00:30] And one other one that I want
[1:00:31] to talk about before I switch
[1:00:33] a little bit is gluten itself.
[1:00:35] Just because I know gluten
[1:00:36] has a significant capacity
[1:00:37] to have cross reactivity.
[1:00:39] I know that you've had experiences
[1:00:40] with this personally, but what is
[1:00:41] the science behind this overall
[1:00:43] when it comes to gluten sensitivity,
[1:00:45] allergy, and how this kind of plays
[1:00:47] into thyroid disorders overall?
[1:00:50] there's a few different schools of
[1:00:52] thought as far as is it American gluten?
[1:00:55] Is it gluten here?
[1:00:56] Is it gluten there?
[1:00:57] Now we knew that, we know that there's
[1:00:59] some cross reactive proteins on the
[1:01:01] gluten molecule to the thyroid gland.
[1:01:04] Initially I came across this with, a
[1:01:07] study done in people with celiac
[1:01:08] disease who also had subclinical
[1:01:11] hypothyroidism in Hashimoto's.
[1:01:14] When they got on a gluten free diet,
[1:01:15] a percentage of them were able to
[1:01:17] normalize their thyroid function, right?
[1:01:20] And so there's definitely this autoimmune
[1:01:21] cross reactivity happening there
[1:01:23] where, you eat this stuff and your body
[1:01:26] thinks it's, needs to be attacked, so
[1:01:28] then it attacks everything that looks
[1:01:31] like it, we've got the, molecular
[1:01:33] mimicry type of mechanism of action.
[1:01:36] And I think for Definitely for celiac
[1:01:39] disease, people are like, yes, if you have
[1:01:41] celiac disease, you should be gluten free.
[1:01:43] But it's a little bit harder for
[1:01:44] people to believe that might be the
[1:01:46] case with Hashimoto's, where I have
[1:01:49] found about 88 percent of people
[1:01:51] that I've worked with and that I
[1:01:52] have surveyed, with Hashimoto's,
[1:01:55] they do feel better gluten free.
[1:01:57] And sometimes it's even, they
[1:01:58] feel even better, Gluten free,
[1:02:01] then like I'm taking armor.
[1:02:02] They'll say it gives them more
[1:02:03] energy and less brain fog and
[1:02:05] less, pain in their bodies.
[1:02:07] So I feel like it's been over 3000.
[1:02:10] My survey was like 2232 people.
[1:02:12] And then with client outcomes,
[1:02:14] it's been about 800 that I've
[1:02:16] had them do the outcome survey.
[1:02:18] So like 3000 plus people feel
[1:02:20] better gluten free when they
[1:02:21] have Hashimoto's or a 80.
[1:02:24] I can't do the math so
[1:02:26] fast in my head right now.
[1:02:26] I need some methylene blue.
[1:02:28] But, um,
[1:02:29] 80
[1:02:29] percent of them feel better, you
[1:02:31] know, with going gluten free.
[1:02:33] And then I think that's
[1:02:35] super, super relevant.
[1:02:36] Different schools of thought are
[1:02:37] like, Oh, it's American gluten
[1:02:38] because it's been sprayed and it's got
[1:02:40] glyphosate and it's just different.
[1:02:43] You know, I lived in Europe
[1:02:44] and I have clients in Europe.
[1:02:45] Guess what client people in
[1:02:47] Europe that have Hashimoto's
[1:02:48] also feel better gluten free.
[1:02:50] So I like that theory and
[1:02:52] I wish it were the case.
[1:02:53] And that's not necessarily
[1:02:54] always the case.
[1:02:55] Some people do have a bit of a
[1:02:57] honeymoon period where they will
[1:02:58] go, they're American, they go to
[1:03:01] Europe, and two weeks off, on gluten,
[1:03:03] European gluten will be just fine.
[1:03:05] Yeah.
[1:03:06] But I think the proteins are slightly
[1:03:08] different, so it takes a while
[1:03:09] for the immune system to catch up.
[1:03:10] That, that's been sort of my observation
[1:03:12] Ah, so it's like an immune reactivity
[1:03:14] because the, the protein is slightly
[1:03:15] different, they don't have the
[1:03:17] reactivity that they would have, but
[1:03:18] if they stayed there long enough kind
[1:03:20] of deal, hypothetically, or maybe it
[1:03:21] would actually start having an issue.
[1:03:24] I mean, I have clients in Poland,
[1:03:25] and Poland doesn't use GMOs,
[1:03:27] and other countries in Europe
[1:03:29] don't use GMOs, and they still do
[1:03:31] better on a gluten free diet cut.
[1:03:32] Germany, Amsterdam, like all over Europe,
[1:03:35] not, I can't say, clients in Asia.
[1:03:38] Like, I can't say I've had
[1:03:39] clients in every single country
[1:03:41] in the world, but definitely a
[1:03:43] lot of European clients, right?
[1:03:45] And they do better gluten
[1:03:46] free if they have Hashimoto's.
[1:03:47] Then there's a theory that it's,
[1:03:49] there's, wheat is a FODMAP, right?
[1:03:51] And so if you have SIBO, then that
[1:03:53] could be causing you to have a reaction.
[1:03:55] About 50 percent of people
[1:03:56] with hypothyroidism have SIBO.
[1:03:58] So it could be that component.
[1:03:59] Then there's the thought process that
[1:04:01] wheat is a high nickel food and so that
[1:04:04] might be actually, nickel sensitivity.
[1:04:08] That is the reason why
[1:04:10] you're reacting to wheat.
[1:04:11] Then there's like the IgG antibodies.
[1:04:13] So there's so many different theories
[1:04:16] and you could really go down the rabbit
[1:04:17] hole of why where I'm just like, I
[1:04:19] don't know why, but like, just get off
[1:04:22] of the gluten and see what happens.
[1:04:24] Let me know how you feel, right?
[1:04:26] Back in the day I was like, oh,
[1:04:28] maybe you have celiac and this,
[1:04:30] you should test for that and then
[1:04:32] maybe you should get off gluten.
[1:04:33] Now I'm just kind of like, just do it.
[1:04:35] I've seen it so many times,
[1:04:36] right?
[1:04:37] yeah, it's we know that all the
[1:04:39] testing out there for food sensitivity,
[1:04:41] for example, is not very good.
[1:04:43] Most of it's not very good,
[1:04:44] or it's not very reliable.
[1:04:46] And especially, at least in my
[1:04:47] experience, not very, very reliable
[1:04:49] for wheat or for gluten itself.
[1:04:51] If you're looking at I.
[1:04:52] G.
[1:04:52] G.
[1:04:53] specifically, right?
[1:04:54] And then, as you said, it may not be I.
[1:04:56] G.
[1:04:56] G.
[1:04:56] That might be the issue, but so what
[1:04:58] I always tell my patients is that if
[1:05:00] even if you don't come up positive on
[1:05:02] a sensitivity panel, whatever it might
[1:05:04] be, at least we want to give you a
[1:05:06] three month trial of being completely
[1:05:09] off of gluten to how you feel.
[1:05:10] Is that something similar to
[1:05:11] what you would do or do you
[1:05:12] have a different approach?
[1:05:13] I mean, if they have Hashimoto's,
[1:05:15] then it's pretty much gluten, dairy,
[1:05:18] soy free for at least three months.
[1:05:20] And sometimes there are more
[1:05:23] foods that need to be eliminated.
[1:05:25] And most of the foods can be introduced
[1:05:27] back, but gluten I haven't I have
[1:05:30] found a way to resolve egg sensitivity
[1:05:33] and various food sensitivities.
[1:05:35] That's kind of my side project
[1:05:37] that I enjoy figuring out like the
[1:05:39] metabolic pathways of how different
[1:05:40] foods are broken down and what
[1:05:42] components could be causing issues.
[1:05:44] Oh, that sounds fun.
[1:05:45] I haven't figured it all out, so I
[1:05:47] don't know about gluten right now.
[1:05:48] For me it's like if you have
[1:05:50] Hashimoto's you should be off
[1:05:51] of it long term, lifelong.
[1:05:52] I used to think that about dairy,
[1:05:54] but I have found dairy protocols that
[1:05:56] seem to resolve dairy sensitivity.
[1:05:59] And then as far as testing, I have found
[1:06:01] the OlaTest food sensitivity test, IgG,
[1:06:05] I have found that to be highly accurate.
[1:06:07] I recently did, like, a comparison
[1:06:09] just on myself with another test.
[1:06:11] And I was like, which
[1:06:13] diet should I follow?
[1:06:14] I, and I ended up doing, feeling like
[1:06:17] the OlaTest was still more accurate.
[1:06:19] I've done This test for 12,
[1:06:21] 13 years with various clients.
[1:06:23] And it'll be like spot on
[1:06:25] where they'll have a random
[1:06:26] food reaction like pineapple.
[1:06:28] And it's like, oh, it was the
[1:06:29] pineapple or it was the ginger
[1:06:31] that was causing your acid reflux.
[1:06:33] So
[1:06:33] that's,
[1:06:33] for, even for gluten as well.
[1:06:35] Or is it something that you, even
[1:06:36] if there's not so much, you would
[1:06:37] be relying on the test for that?
[1:06:39] I've done like a preliminary analysis
[1:06:42] of the food test sensitivity results
[1:06:45] I've done, I don't even know how many at
[1:06:47] this point with people with Hashimoto's.
[1:06:49] And majority of them do show up sensitive
[1:06:51] for gluten, like 80 to 90 percent.
[1:06:53] Now that I think about it.
[1:06:54] It's like all these piles of, um,
[1:06:57] all these piles of projects that I
[1:06:59] it.
[1:06:59] I have all these rabbit holes that I
[1:07:00] want to take you on, especially your
[1:07:01] dairy sensitivity, Decreasing or
[1:07:04] however you want to talk about, my
[1:07:05] wife's an allergist and I'll talk about
[1:07:06] desensitization, and how that works.
[1:07:08] But I don't know if you want to give us a
[1:07:09] quick overview of how, of how you do that.
[1:07:11] I don't want to take too much of your
[1:07:12] time on it, but it sounds interesting.
[1:07:14] The first one that I kind of realized
[1:07:17] was egg sensitivity and people who
[1:07:21] have like skin rashes and just like
[1:07:25] cystic acne and all of these things.
[1:07:27] I would kind of look at them and they
[1:07:29] would have all of these rashes and I
[1:07:32] realized it was like a sulfur thing.
[1:07:34] And then I remember biotics research.
[1:07:36] I happened to go to one of their
[1:07:38] trainings or whatnot, and they
[1:07:39] talked about Utilizing molybdenum
[1:07:42] through the SUOX pathway to help
[1:07:44] with, breaking down sulfur properly.
[1:07:47] And this is like a co factor that
[1:07:49] could be missing for some people.
[1:07:51] I think doctor's data did some
[1:07:53] hair analysis of people who
[1:07:54] were sulfur sensitive or had
[1:07:57] sulfur issues and molybdenum.
[1:08:00] So using molybdenum can be
[1:08:02] very helpful with that as well
[1:08:03] as lysine and then butyrate.
[1:08:06] Sure.
[1:08:07] B12 to kind of bind up sulfur in the body.
[1:08:09] So I have helped people with, I won't
[1:08:11] say anaphylactic reactions, but just
[1:08:13] those food sensitivity reactions to eggs,
[1:08:17] broccoli, like they can't take knack,
[1:08:19] they can't take, things of that nature.
[1:08:22] sulfur ones.
[1:08:22] Yep.
[1:08:23] Yeah,
[1:08:23] like sulfur containing supplements or
[1:08:26] selenium was probably one of the things
[1:08:28] that got me down the rabbit hole with it.
[1:08:30] But that has worked for a lot of people.
[1:08:32] And it's usually a few
[1:08:33] weeks of following this.
[1:08:35] Where you normalize their ability
[1:08:37] to like metabolize sulfur, and
[1:08:38] it's in that little cofactor.
[1:08:40] Another thing was salicylate toxicity.
[1:08:43] So you know with the allergies and
[1:08:45] the asthma and eczema and skin issues.
[1:08:49] So to properly clear salicylates
[1:08:50] from the bodies, we can use glycine.
[1:08:52] And so for some people, just
[1:08:54] using glycine can help them
[1:08:56] normalize their salicylate levels.
[1:08:59] You can do an organic acid test
[1:09:01] to see if they're elevated.
[1:09:02] Good.
[1:09:02] And that, we've had
[1:09:04] people get rid of asthma.
[1:09:06] I mean, I don't know if it was official
[1:09:08] asthma, but they were diagnosed
[1:09:09] with it, and allergies, and all of
[1:09:11] these other weird reactions with that
[1:09:14] sulfur, with that, glycine breakdown.
[1:09:18] With dairy, it was, again, it was
[1:09:21] completely random for me, but it
[1:09:23] was using carnitine and alfalfa,
[1:09:26] and these were So these were
[1:09:29] breastfeeding supplements, right?
[1:09:31] And
[1:09:31] I was like, I used to be very, very
[1:09:35] dairy sensitive and disgusted at the
[1:09:37] sight of dairy once I got off of it.
[1:09:39] And all of a sudden, I was like,
[1:09:40] why does dairy smell so good to me?
[1:09:42] And I was using these
[1:09:44] while, breastfeeding to
[1:09:45] get, my milk supply better.
[1:09:46] And interesting, alfalfa is, a
[1:09:49] preferred food by, like ruminants
[1:09:51] and it helps them like produce more
[1:09:53] milk and all of these other things.
[1:09:55] I think it might be the potassium content.
[1:09:56] I'm not quite sure.
[1:09:57] And then carnitine of course
[1:09:58] helps with, settling fatty acids.
[1:10:00] But I've had with myself, it
[1:10:02] was carnitine and alfalfa,
[1:10:03] some digestive enzyme support.
[1:10:05] And I've had a few people utilizing that.
[1:10:08] I will say, alfalfa, If you're a woman
[1:10:10] that's recently stopped breastfeeding, it
[1:10:12] might help, might not be optimal for you
[1:10:15] because it can drive, if you don't want
[1:10:17] more breast milk, that might be a problem.
[1:10:19] There are a lot of people with
[1:10:20] lupus may not do well with that.
[1:10:22] Okay.
[1:10:22] I've had a, handful of clients where
[1:10:25] they don't have dairy sensitivity
[1:10:26] anymore with that protocol too.
[1:10:29] So, yeah, it was kinda hard to
[1:10:31] narrow it down because I was
[1:10:32] like, I'm taking 10 different
[1:10:33] supplements, which of these help?
[1:10:35] But it ended up being those
[1:10:36] three, so it's taken a few years
[1:10:38] to guinea pig it on different
[1:10:40] people.
[1:10:40] love your rabbit holes, Isabella, because
[1:10:42] you figure out like one little thing and
[1:10:44] then you can take like the pharmacology
[1:10:45] tack and say, well, what is actually
[1:10:47] happening here pharmacologically and
[1:10:48] then taking that and then creating
[1:10:50] this pathway to figuring out, Oh,
[1:10:53] this is how it's actually working.
[1:10:54] Right.
[1:10:54] And that's an unusual
[1:10:55] skillset and very, very cool.
[1:10:57] And, speaking about pharmacology,
[1:10:59] our last topic I wanted to kind
[1:11:00] of chat about is methylene blue.
[1:11:02] I know this is how we first met.
[1:11:04] I, and you first reached out
[1:11:06] because we were my company that the
[1:11:08] troscriptions company was making this.
[1:11:10] We still do now, of course.
[1:11:11] And I'd love to hear a little bit
[1:11:12] about your experience and how you
[1:11:13] heard about it and how this has kind
[1:11:15] of been a become part of your regiment.
[1:11:17] If you don't mind.
[1:11:18] So, you know, I reached out to you
[1:11:20] because I just finished writing my
[1:11:22] last book on Irritable Bowel Syndrome.
[1:11:24] And it's really been a project
[1:11:26] in the making for ten years.
[1:11:28] And I reached out to you because
[1:11:29] I was like, I feel like I need
[1:11:30] to put you in my acknowledgement.
[1:11:34] For helping me finish the manuscript.
[1:11:36] You know, whenever you're an author,
[1:11:37] you write your acknowledgements.
[1:11:39] It's all the people that helped
[1:11:40] you make this book possible.
[1:11:42] And like, you and Methylene
[1:11:43] Blue are definitely in there.
[1:11:44] I think it has helped me
[1:11:47] tremendously with focus.
[1:11:50] And you know I love rabbit holes.
[1:11:52] But sometimes going down rabbit holes
[1:11:54] isn't so great when you have deadlines.
[1:11:56] Thanks.
[1:11:57] Sure.
[1:11:57] so it's really helped me focus on getting
[1:12:02] my manuscript done and really, I feel
[1:12:04] like it, it just is amazing for your brain
[1:12:08] function and just having a bit of clarity.
[1:12:12] So I would say I'm the kind of person,
[1:12:14] I think a lot of entrepreneurs or
[1:12:16] healthcare professionals and creatives
[1:12:18] can relate, where you have a thousand
[1:12:20] different ideas at once, right?
[1:12:21] Thank you.
[1:12:22] And you have a thousand different projects
[1:12:23] and everything is fun and exciting
[1:12:25] and that's sort of my personality.
[1:12:27] But sometimes it would be like I'd
[1:12:29] have ten things that I started at once.
[1:12:32] And then I was like, okay, how do
[1:12:35] I like go back and finish this?
[1:12:38] And that's something that's
[1:12:39] been a game changer for me
[1:12:40] and helping me finish various.
[1:12:42] Obviously my work projects, but also
[1:12:44] just projects around the house where
[1:12:46] if I need to focus, I'll take one.
[1:12:48] Yeah.
[1:12:49] And then I feel significantly
[1:12:51] better with my ability to focus.
[1:12:53] And the way that I do it, and I, perhaps
[1:12:56] you can explain the science, I'm sure much
[1:12:58] better than I can, but I'll typically
[1:13:00] take a methylene blue, and then I'll
[1:13:01] do some red light therapy, and then
[1:13:04] I'll drink a matcha tea right after.
[1:13:06] And the matcha tea, for anybody,
[1:13:09] struggling with blue teeth and
[1:13:10] tongues that just washes it right out.
[1:13:12] So you can like go and have a zoom
[1:13:14] call or pick up your kids from
[1:13:16] school without like looking like
[1:13:18] you just made out with a smurf.
[1:13:20] And you told me recently that you can
[1:13:21] swallow methylene blue, which is amazing.
[1:13:23] But this is something that just
[1:13:25] really helps me get in the zone
[1:13:27] and really helps to wake me up.
[1:13:29] And I know that there's some,
[1:13:31] synergy between red light therapy
[1:13:33] and methylene blue to your rate.
[1:13:34] Okay.
[1:13:35] Yeah, there is.
[1:13:36] it's working on the same complex.
[1:13:38] So complex four is where a red light
[1:13:41] or near infrared light works around 680
[1:13:42] nanometers and along with methylene blue
[1:13:44] donating electrons to the same complex.
[1:13:48] The cool thing about methylene blue
[1:13:49] is it actually can donate electrons to
[1:13:51] any complex that's required, but under
[1:13:53] normal Conditions when mitochondria
[1:13:56] are working well, it's typically
[1:13:57] going to donate to complex for itself.
[1:13:59] And so what is your dose?
[1:14:01] Typically of nothing, but that
[1:14:02] you would take Isabella when
[1:14:03] you would take this combination.
[1:14:05] Can we call it the protocol?
[1:14:06] You already have a lot
[1:14:08] Yeah, there We go.
[1:14:09] can talk about nothing blue.
[1:14:11] Red light.
[1:14:11] Matcha.
[1:14:12] Um, one fourth of the
[1:14:14] higher dose one of the
[1:14:16] So the tro plus, yeah, so we have the
[1:14:18] tro plus line and the tro plus blue is
[1:14:20] our first professional in the product.
[1:14:22] This is our higher strength,
[1:14:24] methylene blue tablets or
[1:14:25] trochees that are 50 milligrams.
[1:14:26] So you're taking 12.
[1:14:28] 5 milligrams.
[1:14:28] Then
[1:14:29] Correct.
[1:14:29] Yes, and now, my husband is writing a
[1:14:32] book, so he's been trying to finish his
[1:14:34] book, and when we last spoke, he had
[1:14:36] a respiratory infection, and we gave
[1:14:37] him a little bit of methylene blue,
[1:14:39] so he's, he's using it now, too, and
[1:14:41] it's helping him write his book, too.
[1:14:43] you guys are co authors in the same house.
[1:14:46] Yeah, our son recently wrote a book, too.
[1:14:48] He did.
[1:14:50] Oh, I mean, he gave me the idea for
[1:14:52] it, so he kind of narrated it, and
[1:14:54] then, then I kind of wrote it up.
[1:14:56] I interviewed him for it, so,
[1:14:58] so it's, we have a lot of fun.
[1:15:00] He isn't quite taking methylene blue
[1:15:02] yet, but he was eating a blue lollipop
[1:15:03] the other day, and he goes, Mommy,
[1:15:05] look, I'm taking methylene blue.
[1:15:08] We're a special family.
[1:15:09] I, well, that's beautiful in my house.
[1:15:11] It's usually frozen blueberries.
[1:15:13] That's the closest there that the
[1:15:14] kids would get the blue mouth.
[1:15:15] We have.
[1:15:16] Yeah, I always tell them that when
[1:15:18] they're older, they can take methylene
[1:15:19] blue, but you know, we do have
[1:15:20] practitioners that are using methylene
[1:15:22] blue in younger kids, with and
[1:15:24] significant benefit overall because
[1:15:26] of the mitochondrial function piece.
[1:15:28] And also that not only does it help
[1:15:30] make energy, but also it works like
[1:15:32] an antioxidant at the same time.
[1:15:34] When you take it, do you feel more energy?
[1:15:37] Just, it's more of kind of clean focus,
[1:15:38] or do you feel like a lift or do you
[1:15:40] feel like your exercise is better?
[1:15:41] Do you have anything in that, in
[1:15:42] those capacities to think about?
[1:15:44] I haven't tried exercising.
[1:15:46] I usually do, focused work with it.
[1:15:49] And I am one of the, you know how
[1:15:51] people need exercise for mental health?
[1:15:53] I don't.
[1:15:54] So,
[1:15:56] like, I'm not somebody that's
[1:15:58] like super, you know, like, yes.
[1:16:00] But it really helps me with my
[1:16:03] focus and that ability to actually
[1:16:05] sit down and do what I need to do.
[1:16:07] Like, as a Entrepreneur,
[1:16:09] healthcare professional, I like
[1:16:11] author, I run two businesses.
[1:16:14] It's, I can get all over the place
[1:16:16] with so, and a mom, I have to do so
[1:16:18] many different things, and it really
[1:16:19] helps me just zero in and focus.
[1:16:22] I would say my energy is lifted,
[1:16:24] but it's not the same as caffeine.
[1:16:26] It's not like edgy, irritable energy,
[1:16:29] it's just kind of like very clear energy,
[1:16:32] and that amazing focus is like I have my
[1:16:36] hundred ideas and all of my ideas like
[1:16:38] just like 99 of them sit down and one
[1:16:41] of them stands up and then I could just
[1:16:43] really have a conversation with that
[1:16:44] one idea and it's amazing because you
[1:16:47] just like have, you can do one thing at
[1:16:49] a time and it's been a really big game
[1:16:52] changer for me and the other random thing,
[1:16:55] and I don't know if you've seen this
[1:16:57] before, but my nails have grown so much.
[1:17:00] Yeah.
[1:17:01] Since I started using it, I go
[1:17:03] to like mani-pedi every few weeks.
[1:17:05] And my manicurist is like, wow, you've
[1:17:08] got like the most beautiful nails.
[1:17:10] And they're always, they like
[1:17:11] cry when I want to cut them.
[1:17:13] They're like, are you
[1:17:13] sure you want to cut them?
[1:17:14] I'm like, yeah, they're just
[1:17:15] going to grow back so fast.
[1:17:16] And they're like, what do you do?
[1:17:18] And then I was, I saw, um,
[1:17:20] another person posting that had
[1:17:22] helped them grow their nails.
[1:17:23] And then it clicked me.
[1:17:24] I was like, Oh my gosh, this has
[1:17:27] been a game changer for my nails.
[1:17:28] Some people's hearts are very,
[1:17:30] like if it'll make my hair,
[1:17:31] skin, or nails better, I'm all in.
[1:17:33] So if you're listening, if you're
[1:17:35] one of those people, like that,
[1:17:36] this is your tool, like not only
[1:17:38] will it make you smarter, but
[1:17:39] it can give you beautiful nails.
[1:17:42] I wonder, and I don't know if
[1:17:43] you've tested your, do you have
[1:17:45] any antibody levels at all at this
[1:17:46] point, related to the Hashimoto's?
[1:17:48] I do.
[1:17:48] Yeah.
[1:17:49] Yeah.
[1:17:49] I wonder if, is there a way we can
[1:17:51] actually measure antibody levels over
[1:17:54] time and somebody taking methylene blue
[1:17:55] to see if it has an impact in decreasing
[1:17:57] those is I, you know, I know one of
[1:17:59] the reasons why hair and nails can be
[1:18:00] a problem in Hashimoto's is because
[1:18:03] you have thyroid dysfunction to some
[1:18:05] degree, or you have inflammatory aspects
[1:18:08] of having an autoimmune condition.
[1:18:10] I think that's a really interesting
[1:18:12] idea to see if that helps.
[1:18:14] With the thyroid antibodies.
[1:18:16] I know personally for me
[1:18:17] recently, it was a, gut infection.
[1:18:19] So I looked very pregnant
[1:18:20] for a while, but I was not.
[1:18:22] I just treated that a few months ago.
[1:18:24] And then I like, I don't look
[1:18:26] pregnant anymore, which is amazing.
[1:18:28] But I know that was a part of
[1:18:29] what was driving my system.
[1:18:30] So I don't, I was also
[1:18:32] taking methylene blue.
[1:18:34] So I tested before and after starting,
[1:18:36] but it didn't have an impact.
[1:18:37] So I feel like it would, I would
[1:18:39] want to isolate it just to make sure.
[1:18:42] Yeah, I don't,
[1:18:42] know.
[1:18:43] that was like a new thing that
[1:18:45] I have this amazing prosciutto.
[1:18:47] So good.
[1:18:48] And then after I got home, I
[1:18:49] was like, something's not right.
[1:18:50] And then with a few months later,
[1:18:53] I ended up with like, my friends
[1:18:55] were like, you have some news.
[1:18:57] And I'm like,
[1:18:57] no.
[1:18:58] I don't have any news.
[1:18:59] And all of my like yoga pants
[1:19:01] were getting super tight.
[1:19:02] And I ended up, utilizing gut
[1:19:04] testing as I was writing my gut book.
[1:19:06] I'm like, what's wrong with my gut?
[1:19:07] And
[1:19:08] sure enough, I had a, lovely
[1:19:09] protozoal infection.
[1:19:11] Maybe at some point, when there's
[1:19:12] no other variables, we can test it
[1:19:14] again with you and see how things go.
[1:19:16] But, it's funny how that, works
[1:19:18] when you're writing a book on
[1:19:19] something or you're studying it
[1:19:20] and then all of a sudden it becomes
[1:19:21] like real life in some ways.
[1:19:23] One, this infection I had, I was like, I
[1:19:24] thought it was pretty benign, but apparent
[1:19:26] like going down the rabbit hole, it's
[1:19:28] like, Oh yeah, it can cause inflammation.
[1:19:30] And sure enough, it was like
[1:19:31] sweat pants being too tight.
[1:19:33] And I'm built like a greyhound?
[1:19:35] Okay.
[1:19:36] Yeah.
[1:19:36] it was really weird because
[1:19:37] it was just like my belly.
[1:19:38] Yeah, I gotcha.
[1:19:39] I gotcha.
[1:19:39] Yeah.
[1:19:40] I have a funny story when I was in
[1:19:41] medical school and we were learning
[1:19:43] about the jaw in anatomy class and I
[1:19:46] ended up getting punched in the face
[1:19:47] randomly on the street right in my jaw
[1:19:50] How was
[1:19:50] that?
[1:19:51] What kind
[1:19:52] of places were you in?
[1:19:54] I was in Baltimore.
[1:19:55] Anything's possible in Baltimore.
[1:19:56] So I, I trained in at the
[1:19:58] University of Maryland.
[1:19:58] So, Isabel, this has been great.
[1:20:00] I really appreciate you spending
[1:20:01] so much time with me to chat.
[1:20:03] I have one final question for you.
[1:20:05] And it's a question we ask
[1:20:06] everybody at the end of the podcast.
[1:20:07] And it's, what are three
[1:20:08] ways that anybody listening.
[1:20:11] Can live smarter, not harder as
[1:20:13] it is the name of our podcast.
[1:20:15] And the idea with our company is
[1:20:17] to try to find ways to help people
[1:20:19] right now, the Troscriptions company,
[1:20:20] right, right now, along that path
[1:20:22] to, optimizing their health with
[1:20:24] energy focus and things like that.
[1:20:26] We have the nonprofit that's also
[1:20:27] helping over the longterm, but what
[1:20:29] are your thoughts out of all your
[1:20:30] experience clinically or otherwise
[1:20:32] as a mom, as a wife, whatever
[1:20:34] you think might be relevant.
[1:20:35] Hmm.
[1:20:36] I mean, honestly, one of the things
[1:20:37] that can be very helpful for most
[1:20:39] people is spending time in nature
[1:20:42] and then really
[1:20:42] getting tuned into the circadian rhythm.
[1:20:44] So that bright light exposure in the
[1:20:46] morning, that's such a big game changer
[1:20:48] for your energy levels and avoiding
[1:20:51] the bright lights in the evenings.
[1:20:54] This is going to help
[1:20:54] you sleep so much better.
[1:20:56] And sometimes just circadian rhythm
[1:20:58] alignment can help symptoms like
[1:21:00] the fatigue and the brain fog.
[1:21:02] And just doing that can be such
[1:21:04] a big needle mover for people.
[1:21:06] I would say most people would benefit
[1:21:07] from some sort of a cleanse or reset
[1:21:10] every two weeks out of the year, where
[1:21:12] you go through and you do some sauna
[1:21:14] sessions, I would say 30 minutes a day,
[1:21:17] for four times a week for those two weeks,
[1:21:20] and some liver supporting nutrients.
[1:21:23] That can be a really big
[1:21:24] game changer for people.
[1:21:26] And then, really figuring out what kind
[1:21:28] of foods are very nourishing for you.
[1:21:31] That can be a big driver, because
[1:21:33] then getting into the habit of
[1:21:35] just eating things that are really
[1:21:36] good for you and getting into those
[1:21:38] habits can be a big game changer.
[1:21:41] And sometimes I do utilize the food
[1:21:43] sensitivity testing, or sometimes there's
[1:21:45] genetic testing people can do to see what
[1:21:47] foods they do best with, because sometimes
[1:21:49] it's like, oh, carnivore's good, or vegan
[1:21:51] diet's good, and it's like, you know,
[1:21:52] at the end of the day, we're all kind of
[1:21:53] individuals, and we have to tailor things
[1:21:56] to ourselves, because that can really
[1:21:57] help you from going against the grain.
[1:22:00] That's beautiful.
[1:22:00] And which was the, the allergy
[1:22:02] test that you recommended?
[1:22:02] The food sensitivity was Allah.
[1:22:04] Is that
[1:22:04] I'll alletess.
[1:22:05] A L L E T E S S.
[1:22:07] Many more letters to that than I
[1:22:09] thought when you first said it.
[1:22:10] So awesome.
[1:22:12] Thank you for that.
[1:22:13] And so where can people find more
[1:22:14] about more about you as well?
[1:22:16] My website is thyroidpharmacist.
[1:22:18] com.
[1:22:18] I have books on Amazon and
[1:22:20] everywhere fine books are sold.
[1:22:21] Hashimoto's Protocol is one
[1:22:24] of my most popular books.
[1:22:25] 90 day plan to reverse
[1:22:27] Hashimoto's symptoms.
[1:22:29] And then Adrenal Transformation
[1:22:30] Protocol is like a four week plan.
[1:22:32] That's my latest book that really
[1:22:34] focuses on like the fatigue, fatigue,
[1:22:36] brain fog, anxiety, insomnia,
[1:22:38] sleep issues, pain, and just kind
[1:22:40] of rebalancing the nervous system.
[1:22:42] And I am on Instagram and Facebook.
[1:22:46] You could find me under Isabella
[1:22:47] Wentz Farm D or Thyroid Pharmacist.
[1:22:51] Well, thank you so much for spending.
[1:22:53] A lot of time with me.
[1:22:54] This is actually my longest interview on
[1:22:55] Oh my goodness.
[1:22:56] And I didn't want to stop
[1:22:57] because I have so many questions,
[1:22:58] but this has been great.
[1:22:59] So I hope to see you sometime
[1:23:00] soon in person, but thank you
[1:23:02] for all your support, you know,
[1:23:03] with Methylene Blue as well.
[1:23:04] I'm glad it's helping you.
[1:23:05] And I look forward to the
[1:23:07] next time we get to chat.
[1:23:08] Thank you so much for creating
[1:23:09] these wonderful products.
[1:23:11] I really appreciate the work
[1:23:12] that you're doing in the world
[1:23:12] and thank you for having me.

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