# 1017: The Dark Urge to Root for Collapse | Secret Podcast

An episode of [The Next Level](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1647085571), 19 Sep 2025, 26 min.

Audio: https://clrtpod.com/m/pscrb.fm/rss/p/dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/audioboom.com/posts/8779614.mp3?modified=1758324975&sid=5114287&source=rss

JVL and Sarah go head-to-head over the New York Times, Trump’s $15 billion lawsuit, and what solidarity really means when democracy is on the line.

Shows are listed from Apple Podcasts' charts and directory, and Podcast Index where it is used. Every show and episode belongs to its publisher and plays from the publisher's own feed; this site hosts none of them.