# Episode 154 - How to curate a great birth

An episode of [The Great Birth Rebellion](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1639430316), 8 Jun 2025, 1 h 09 min.

Audio: https://episode.flightcast.com/kxqlry990ip2oyz6yu4khmdn.mp3

You can be the mistress of your birth experience. Let’s talk about what part YOU play in what happens to you during your birth. This week I speak to Alice Bleathman and we derive lessons from her birth story about what steps you can take to increase the chances of experiencing a birth without regrets. There are things you can do to increase your chances of a great birth and we explore these today through Alices story. Get Mel's ‘Guide to giving birth without pain medication’ here. To access the FREE MASTERCLASS www.melaniethemidwife.com/great Meet Alice @alicebleathman_ Complementary episodes for you to explore: • Ep. 125 The Medicalisation spectrum • Ep. 44 pre-labour rupture of membranes • Ep. 47 Managing labour pain without medicine • Ep. 129 Giving Birth to your placenta Get more from the Great Birth Rebellion Podcast • Join the podcast mailing list to access the resource folder from each episode at www.melaniethemidwife.com • Join the rebellion and show your support! Grab your Great Birth Rebellion merchandise now at www.thegreatbirthrebellion.com • Follow us on social media @thegreatbirthrebellion and @melaniethemidwife • If this podcast has improved your knowledge or pregnancy, birth or postpartum journey please consider thanking us financially by leaving a tip to support the ongoing work of this podcast. Disclaimer The information and resources provided on this podcast does not, and is not intended to, constitute or replace medical or midwifery advice. Instead, all information provided is intended for education, with it’s application intended for discussion between yourself and your care provider and/or workplace if you are a health professional. The Great Birth Rebellion podcast reserves the right to supplement, edit, change, delete any information at any time. Whilst we have tried to maintain accuracy and completeness of information, we do not warrant or guarantee the accuracy or currency of the information. The podcast accepts no liability for any loss, damage or unfavourable outcomes howsoever arising out of the use or reliance on the content. This podcast is not a replacement for midwifery or medical clinical care. All transcripts are generated by ai and may contain errors

## Transcript

[0:00] Welcome to the Great Birth Rebellion podcast.
[0:02] I'm your host Dr Melanie Jackson.
[0:05] I'm a clinical and research midwife with my PhD and each episode I cast a critical eye over current maternity care practice by grappling with research and historical knowledge to help you get the best out of your pregnancy, birth and postpartum journey.
[0:26] Welcome to today's episode of the Great Birth Rebellion podcast.
[0:29] Today, I've invited Alice Blythman to the podcast.
[0:33] She describes her no regrets birth, and we talk about what women can do to curate a great birth experience for themselves.
[0:41] For sure, there are uncontrollable elements to pregnancy, labor, and birth.
[0:46] Things that nobody can change.
[0:49] But there are some things that you can do, things that are within your reach...
[0:54] that can positively influence your birth experience.
[0:58] There is no denying that you can't control everything, but you are in a position to influence a lot of things.
[1:05] And we highlight some of those today through Alice's story.
[1:10] For some of you listening, you might be surprised to hear that there are some things that are within your power to change and influence what happens to you while you're giving birth, because we're always told,
[1:22] that this is an uncontrollable event.
[1:25] And this is great news because this means that there are so many elements of your birth that don't need to be left to chance.
[1:31] You don't have to go with the flow and hope for the best.
[1:35] There are things that you can do to influence the events of your birth.
[1:39] And Alice's birth gives an example of this.
[1:42] And it also highlights some of the things that you can do for yourself.
[1:46] Now for a long time, I resisted adding birth stories to the podcast program.
[1:51] Because there are already so many great podcasts that are sharing birth stories.
[1:57] But I do think we can learn from birth stories.
[2:00] So we started adding the occasional birth story into the roster of the Great Birth Rebellion podcast.
[2:07] You know, we shared our first birth story with Renee Barge, who had a hospital and home birth.
[2:13] And that was a few episodes ago.
[2:14] And if you heard her story, you'll know that...
[2:18] We're actually sharing birth stories a little bit differently on The Great Birth Rebellion.
[2:22] What you'll see is there are some embedded lessons that you can take away that I've added in in post-production.
[2:29] So my own little bits of commentary and little mini lessons as we go.
[2:34] And as you listen to Alice's story, you'll hear a little sound effect that goes like this.
[2:41] And this tells you that I'm about to interrupt the story and add a little something.
[2:46] So let's get started.
[2:47] Welcome Alice to the Great Birth Rebellion podcast.
[2:51] Thanks Mel for having me.
[2:53] We were just talking off air how honoured I am to talk because I feel like this podcast was one of the reasons why I had such a positive birth experience and went into birth so educated and empowered.
[3:03] So
[3:03] I'm so happy to talk and hopefully share some, you know, element of enthusiasm or motivation or positive experience with my experience, birth and labour and postpartum and all that fun stuff.
[3:16] And that's why I invited you onto the podcast because I knew you were listening through your pregnancy and, you know, you were posting every now and then about what you'd learnt from the podcast.
[3:26] And then when I saw you had your baby, I was like, oh, okay, she's had the baby.
[3:29] And then recently you shared your birth story.
[3:32] because it's a great story you know your first baby so for the people listening who might not know you can you introduce yourself who are you what do you do today and then we're going to jump into your birth story
[3:47] Yes.
[3:47] Okay.
[3:47] Well, at the moment, my days are filled with breastfeeding and that's about it.
[3:51] I have a little five week old Tide who is just the light of my life at the moment.
[3:56] But before Tide, I practice largely as a dietician.
[4:01] Online, I buy my own business online.
[4:03] So that's
[4:04] Yeah, that's a large part of my, I guess, sort of professional identity.
[4:08] And I also do some social media work on the side.
[4:11] Yeah, I guess like that's me from a professional sense.
[4:15] I just find it hard to describe myself.
[4:16] And then sort of personally, I just, I guess now I'm a mom before that I traveled Australia in my van, so some people might know me for that season of my life.
[4:26] But yeah, I think.
[4:28] deep down, I'm just somebody who's very, very curious.
[4:30] And when I became pregnant, I wanted to have a really good experience with birth and pregnancy.
[4:35] And I'm not someone who just goes, oh yeah, I'll just figure it out.
[4:39] It'll just happen.
[4:41] I'm a bit of a nerd academically.
[4:44] So I feel like maybe you're similar, Mel, just sort of accept things for what they are.
[4:48] So I was very, very, very curious.
[4:50] And that's sort of what led me to finding the podcast and
[4:55] midwives and things suggested and of course and looking into things further than what they may appear.
[4:59] Well I mean it sounds like you just wanted to make informed decisions which pretty much yeah the brand that you live your life by.
[5:08] That's right yeah and you know I'm not somebody who is as a dietitian you get taught looking at research and analyzing things and interpreting things and
[5:19] not taking things as face value.
[5:21] And I think that that's really kind of foregrounded my experience in pregnancy and labor and birth and postpartum.
[5:29] So, you know, I'm not here being like anti this, anti that.
[5:32] I'm just there.
[5:33] Okay, what information do we have?
[5:35] And what can I take?
[5:37] And what can I leave?
[5:38] And how can I
[5:40] give myself the best possible situation, kind of let other things go that might happen that, you know, I didn't necessarily prepare for.
[5:47] But, yeah, it's a good position to be in, empowered, educated.
[5:52] You know, when you shared your story publicly online,
[5:55] You talked about it being a really positive experience.
[5:59] So for people listening, I just need you to know that this is a really positive story.
[6:05] Some people, they don't want to go into it not knowing what they're in for.
[6:09] I find myself actually kind of holding back sometimes sharing it.
[6:13] And I did so on social media.
[6:15] I was like, do I share this?
[6:16] Do I not?
[6:17] Like how much of it do I share?
[6:18] And I'm like,
[6:19] I kind of came to the conclusion that like everyone has their own experiences and I can't hold back mine based off sort of, you know, other people's experience.
[6:28] And that's not to say that I'm, I'm being sort of invalidating or anything, but I think it's really nice to, to hear a whole, whole plethora and color of, of different people's experiences with labor, birth, pregnancy.
[6:39] And so, you know, we know what, what we can have and what we can go into and what we even, you know, can, can pay for.
[6:45] but not in a way that we go, okay, that's the gold standard and you're the best person and, you know, you win because that's not the case.
[6:55] There's an element of luck that's involved as well.
[6:57] So, yeah, I want to say that as though, like I don't want to come across and be like,
[7:01] I'm the best.
[7:01] I had the best positive birth and like everyone, you know, should aim for my kind of birth because it's not always possible either.
[7:08] And that's it.
[7:09] I mean this podcast is all about sending the message that birth can be great because society tells us that birth is dangerous and scary and painful and –
[7:21] something that you have to endure.
[7:23] And so that's the prevailing message.
[7:25] So we are trying to just change the discourse a little bit.
[7:29] Like, no, actually birth can be amazing.
[7:31] It's okay to have an expectation that that could happen.
[7:36] And you got there.
[7:38] I do think there's some planning and strategy involved with that.
[7:43] And I think we'll hear through your story that there were particular choices
[7:51] a positive experience.
[7:53] So we're going to go into your story.
[7:55] I'm keen to hear all about it.
[7:56] Let's do it.
[7:57] You know, if you're listening, you might find that there are little decision points here that actually did impact the ultimate outcome of your birth, you know, to start off with.
[8:06] TJ, my partner, and I decided to go and apply for the mid-referred group practice, which is in Australia and some states, you can essentially apply for the public system.
[8:17] You get given a midwife through the duration of your pregnancy and six weeks or so post-partum.
[8:22] And that, for me, was really important.
[8:24] Knowing, I guess, the continuality of care is really important in successful outcomes.
[8:29] And I just kind of knew that.
[8:30] Now what Alice is talking about here is midwifery group practice programs.
[8:36] They're often made available through hospitals, particularly here in Australia and other places around the world.
[8:43] They have midwifery group practice and continuity of care with your own midwife.
[8:48] And in some places like New Zealand and in the UK, this can be commonplace and embedded in the healthcare system.
[8:55] It's not exactly like that here in Australia and definitely not in the US.
[9:00] And I know I'm listening to you out there, UK midwives, who are saying, oh my gosh, our system used to be so perfect.
[9:06] Well, not every system is perfect, but it used to be so good.
[9:09] And I know that in the UK, there's a huge blow up around the maternity care system at the moment.
[9:14] But continuity of midwifery care is considered gold standard.
[9:19] If you have a look at which midwifery models of care or which maternity models of care seem to be the most satisfactory to women, it's continuity of midwifery care.
[9:33] And there's a few things here, particularly in Australia, depending on where you are, it'll be different.
[9:38] Here in Australia, a maximum of about 30% of women have access to some kind of continuity of care.
[9:45] But be cautious with that stat.
[9:47] I know you're thinking, well, that's great.
[9:48] One in three women.
[9:49] Not really.
[9:50] There are some models that are full continuity.
[9:54] So pregnancy, birth and postpartum, where women can access that.
[9:58] But hospitals are starting to introduce these programs that only have antenatal, postnatal care, and you don't have the same midwife with you for birth.
[10:06] And that is included in the continuity of care data.
[10:09] I don't think as many women are getting access to continuity of care as being advertised, but there you go.
[10:16] Also, it depends on where you live.
[10:19] So you might not have access to this midwifery group practice programs as part of a public hospital system.
[10:25] So it's important to find out what you have access to with the services that are around you.
[10:30] So continuity of midwifery care programs are not always the most accessible option for lots of women.
[10:37] A lot of women just have to make do with what we call fragmented care, where they'll go into hospital and they just get given whoever is on shift that day.
[10:46] So just know that you can have a look at hospitals and their services in the area to see if anyone provides midwifery group practice or continuity of care models.
[10:56] And it's important to do this early because they are quite popular and they book up.
[11:02] The other aspect that impacts your access is your risk status.
[11:07] And I hate using that phrase, but often to access continuity of care programs, they have a system where you could be risked out of the program because of particular risk factors.
[11:18] There are some all risk midwifery continuity of care models, but they're again a lot more rare.
[11:25] So what Alice is talking about here is that she managed to access a publicly funded one and it also happened to have a birth center.
[11:33] So she had her own midwife and she didn't have to give birth at the hospital.
[11:37] And here in Australia, that's on Medicare.
[11:39] It didn't cost her anything.
[11:41] She did remain low risk through her pregnancy, so she was able to stay on the MGP program.
[11:47] So without a doubt, midwifery continuity of care programs would be my very top tip.
[11:53] If you want to apply any elements to your pregnancy and birth that are going to increase the chance of you feeling like your birth was great,
[12:02] and experiencing a great birth, this would be my top recommendation.
[12:05] So some women will be able to have continued care with an obstetrician, for example, or a private midwife.
[12:13] And obstetricians are particularly good if you have a complex pregnancy and you want to have the same care provider care for you for your entire pregnancy.
[12:22] Certainly an obstetrician is an option.
[12:25] also private midwifery is an option.
[12:28] The downside of private continuity of care models though, is that they obviously have some out of pocket cost.
[12:36] There's a little bit of a Medicare gap, but overall here, what I want to endorse is this idea that continuity of care is one of the key elements
[12:46] in order for you to also curate a great birth for yourself?
[12:50] You know, it's pretty obvious.
[12:52] Like if you have the same person throughout your whole pregnancy and postpartum experience, you're probably going to have a better experience.
[12:57] So that was something that was really important to me.
[12:59] And I guess that was one of the decisions that I feel like had led me to
[13:04] to look into things a little bit deeper and to start investigating and looking into different types of births and all those experiences because the midwife I had kind of understood me and understood the way that I think and feel and what sort of birth I wanted to have.
[13:19] And because of that continuality of care, she was able to kind of back me the whole way.
[13:25] So definitely that was one of the first things.
[13:28] So we basically had a really smooth pregnancy.
[13:32] The whole pregnancy, there was no real mishaps.
[13:35] We did a few scans and we decided against some things based off the pain pass largely and my other research.
[13:46] But it was a pretty chill pregnancy.
[13:49] I actually had really bad morning sickness the whole time, but it was fine.
[13:54] During the pregnancy, I had acupuncture done every fortnight.
[13:59] and basically just kept active the whole pregnancy.
[14:02] And I think for me, outside of just mental health, it kind of made sense.
[14:07] And I guess that sort of foreshadows a lot of my entire pregnancy and postpartum and labor is like, I just did things that made sense.
[14:16] And what I mean by that is like moving my body, doing some Pilates, not being too mean to myself, that kind of made sense.
[14:24] And it felt right.
[14:26] And
[14:27] I think we have these instincts as females to sort of protect our bodies and as females during pregnancy in particular.
[14:35] And I think sometimes because of particular social media or the medicalization spectrum, we kind of just...
[14:42] forget that we we can listen to our bodies so a lot of the the whole process of that pregnancy was kind of in a sense inadvertently preparing myself for labor but i didn't do it on purpose i just did it because it felt right so acupuncture meditation stretching pelvic floor stuff you know relaxing pelvic floor in particular that third trimester
[15:06] Honestly, educating myself, that was pretty much the crux of it.
[15:11] It was just educating myself and building the confidence that, hey, even though maybe historically you've been led to believe that labor and birth is scary or it's dangerous, that doesn't need to be the narrative that you need to live out.
[15:27] And you can actually rewrite that and you can do that through education, surround yourself with the right people.
[15:33] So education being reading books or listening to podcasts like The Great Birth Rebellion or even talking to your midwives or people who have had positive experiences.
[15:43] And even if people haven't had those positive experiences in birth, people who have a really positive mindset around it, I think it's very easy to...
[15:52] to have an experience and still, you know, where people kind of look at it and go, you know, it was hard or it was terrible or it was bad, but, you know, you can do it.
[16:04] It's fine.
[16:04] Like it's okay.
[16:06] And then there's sort of the flip side where it's hard and bad and scary.
[16:09] And so being able,
[16:11] quite selective with the conversations I had around birth and pregnancy and labour was really important to me.
[16:17] You know, you mentioned before we started recording that your midwives really encouraged this kind of activity.
[16:24] They encouraged you to get informed.
[16:27] 100%.
[16:29] I think one of the things that encourage me more is they never, they never pushed things on me.
[16:35] They always asked.
[16:37] And I think it's such a small thing that maybe I'm just quite, you know, sensitive in that I notice it, but it's like, what would you like to do rather than let's just do this?
[16:49] Or, you know, that's what we do.
[16:50] You know, it's like, oh, I get choice in this matter.
[16:54] Oh, I need to understand it then.
[16:55] Yeah.
[16:56] And it's a really good thing because it means that you actually look into the options rather than just being told this is what we do.
[17:03] Well, this is the difference that I notice with things
[17:06] continuity of care midwifery and midwives who choose to work in those models are usually very interested in what the women who they're looking after want to do they want to give you know we call it woman-centered care because yeah literally focuses on what do you want to do and I love that you mentioned you know when you get asked what do you want to do you're almost obliged to go away and
[17:33] options because now I've got to choose something.
[17:37] And you mentioned to me earlier too that your midwives recommended the podcast as a potential resource to do.
[17:44] Yeah.
[17:44] Discover information.
[17:46] You know, them giving me the option to find out myself.
[17:50] And, you know, I can understand that not everyone has, say, medical history, medical sort of base education, sorry, and maybe sometimes it can be really hard to decipher information like that, but, you know, even giving information,
[18:05] you know the client or the patient the possibility of choice I think is so so powerful it kind of it really inspired me and empowered me and educated me throughout the whole process so it sounds like Ben your pregnancy was fairly uneventful in the grand scheme of things and yeah obviously you managed to stay on the midwifery program which means nothing major came up yeah
[18:28] Now, the reason I mentioned this here about the inclusion criteria for midwifery continuity of care programs is you have to know that just because you get on one doesn't mean you're going to stay on one.
[18:41] If you do manage to have or find a midwifery group practice
[18:46] in your area that you have access to, just ask them some questions about the inclusion criteria, who's allowed in, who's not, and if they are a no exit program.
[18:57] So some programs are no exit, so it doesn't matter what complications you develop through your pregnancy or if you decline any tests because that's another reason that they might not let you stay on the program.
[19:08] If you decline, for example, group B strep testing or
[19:13] diabetes testing or any ultrasounds, then sometimes they'll just say, well, you can't be on the program.
[19:19] So do quiz them a little bit about their inclusion criteria and what criteria means you'd be no longer eligible for the program.
[19:26] Alice was really fortunate to stay on there, but this is certainly something that can trip women up.
[19:31] And what they find is that they get on the program and then they find themselves back into standard care, not realizing that there were criteria by which they needed to fulfill to stay on the program.
[19:44] If you don't want that hung over, you don't want that uncertainty as part of your birth planning, the real only way to avoid that is to be in a no exit program or hire a private clinician.
[19:58] So a private obstetrician or a private midwife for continuity of care or both.
[20:05] And that you're much less likely to not have access to that.
[20:10] Usually those two programs, those two strategies will mean that you'll have that same midwife or same obstetrician that you planned to have.
[20:19] So talk us through your birth.
[20:21] Do you feel like you're ready to go there?
[20:23] Oh yeah.
[20:25] I'm so ready.
[20:26] So it's funny actually.
[20:29] So with,
[20:31] My birth, I always had this feeling that I was going to give birth early.
[20:36] And when I say early, I'm talking like pre sort of 39 weeks.
[20:40] And I don't know why.
[20:40] I was just like, I'm just going to give birth early.
[20:42] That's just what I'm going to do.
[20:44] And at 37 weeks, I remember waking up.
[20:46] And now, mind you, this is the first birth I've had.
[20:48] So I don't know what it feels like to give birth.
[20:51] I woke up at 37 weeks and I was like, the baby is really low.
[20:54] I feel it.
[20:55] It's basically sleeping in my body.
[20:57] Um, gosh, I wish, but I just felt really low.
[21:00] And I went to acupuncture and I told the girls just really low.
[21:03] And we did a few points to help with sort of that energy alignment and, you know, uterus blood flow and all that jazz.
[21:10] And I walked out and I was like, it's like really low.
[21:13] But I didn't really think anything of it.
[21:15] I had a few kind of weird pressures, I guess you could call them.
[21:19] They weren't painful.
[21:20] It was just like, oh, this feels a bit different than what it felt like the past 37 weeks.
[21:24] 37 plus two, I woke up.
[21:26] It's actually a funny story because I wasn't expecting to give birth this early.
[21:31] But I woke up and I remember saying to my partner, TJ, I was like, I think I've weaved myself.
[21:36] You know, I'm a bit weird.
[21:37] So he was like, babe, that's so not like that's not normal.
[21:41] I was like, oh, like maybe my pelvic floor is just super weak.
[21:45] I guess he's getting heavier.
[21:47] Maybe that's just what happens at the 10 weeks.
[21:50] Kind of oblivious to the fact that it was actually my water's breaking.
[21:54] You see in movies, right, there's this gash of water.
[21:57] I had a feeling that it wasn't always the case, this gash of water.
[21:59] I think maybe it was through the podcast I learned that or something else, but it felt like a really anticlimactic water breaking.
[22:08] So I didn't think anything of it.
[22:11] I remember maybe half an hour to an hour later, I was still weeing myself.
[22:16] I was like, okay, this is definitely like my bladder is definitely not this big.
[22:19] There's something up here.
[22:21] So I went to the supermarket, walked to the supermarket and got some like pads and stuff.
[22:24] I don't know what this is, but it is something that might need some, I guess, observation.
[22:29] So that's why I got the pad just in case I needed to observe if it was any sort of blood or anything, you know.
[22:35] By this time, I went to the toilet and I saw my mucus plug in the toilet.
[22:40] All right, let's take a second to talk about mucus plugs.
[22:44] For new players at home, if you don't realize that there might be a mucus plug in there, let me tell you.
[22:50] Your uterus, where your baby's living, is closed off by your cervix, which holds your uterus shut all the way through your pregnancy.
[22:59] And it's held shut by two muscles, one on the inside, one on the outside.
[23:03] And it creates this tube.
[23:06] And inside the tube of your cervix is mucus.
[23:10] It's called a mucus plug.
[23:11] Or, you know, women sometimes say they've had a show.
[23:14] And the show is the mucus plug coming away and coming out of your cervix.
[23:20] This can happen towards the end of your pregnancy as your cervix starts to open, shorten and dilate towards the end of pregnancy.
[23:29] But there's no correlation between having a show or seeing a mucus plug and when labor is actually going to start.
[23:36] But often women will see these during labor as your cervix dilates.
[23:40] The mucus plug has less to cling to and starts to come awake.
[23:44] Sometimes, though, they don't come at all and you'll see the mucus plug just sitting on top of the baby's head as it's born.
[23:51] And they can look different.
[23:53] Every woman's mucus plug looks different.
[23:55] Some of them are huge.
[23:57] Like I've seen a mucus plug that was like the size of a golf ball before just sitting on a woman's pad.
[24:03] But they can be clear or a bit cloudy, white and cloudy.
[24:07] They can have streaks of blood in them.
[24:09] Some of them can be quite bloody where they look like a blood clot.
[24:13] We just call that a bloody show.
[24:16] Sometimes it's just streaks of blood.
[24:18] Or they could look a brownie colour if it's old blood that's been sitting in there for a while.
[24:24] And the mucus plug can regenerate.
[24:26] So sometimes if you lose a bit of mucus plug, it just keeps coming through your pregnancy.
[24:31] That's because it can regenerate.
[24:32] Sometimes it'll come out in bits and pieces.
[24:34] Sometimes it's a huge, huge big glob.
[24:37] But that's what a show is.
[24:38] That's what Alice is talking about here.
[24:41] So don't be surprised if you see that.
[24:42] That's the mucus plug that just lives in your cervix and it'll start to come away as your cervix dilates and opens.
[24:49] And so that's when I started to feel like something was maybe a little bit different
[24:54] And I ended up calling my midwife at about 8.30 and she knows I'm a bit blase about it all.
[25:00] And I thought, oh, Linda, like, hey, I don't know what's going on, but I keep weeing myself.
[25:05] Linda's amazing.
[25:07] She's very, she never pushes anything on you.
[25:09] She never sort of plants any seeds in a really good way.
[25:13] Because I think, you know, if someone says, oh, you're on labor, then like all of a sudden you're like, oh my gosh, bye.
[25:18] So she kind of said like, oh, it looks like he might, you know, he's doing something like my baby.
[25:24] And I was like, oh yeah, like, yeah, yeah.
[25:26] Okay.
[25:27] I kind of had a feeling I was like, maybe that means that I'm in labor, but she never said the word, which I think was really good because I pretty much for the, for the two hours after that, like gaslighted myself that I wasn't in labor and I was just, I don't know, myself or whatever.
[25:43] I love this strategy of denying that you're in labor for as long as possible.
[25:50] So in early labor, you can start to get these contractions and maybe you think to yourself, okay, great, I'm in labor.
[25:58] You make all the plans.
[25:59] You find childcare.
[26:02] You kind of go into the labor rhythm.
[26:05] Can I encourage you, if you do start to get contraction, I love this strategy of just denying that you're in labor for as long as possible.
[26:14] Alice calls it gaslighting yourself.
[26:16] No, not really in labor.
[26:18] Not really in labor.
[26:19] I think labor is as much a physical game as it is a mental game.
[26:24] And if you're telling yourself, you know, no, it's probably not time yet.
[26:28] No, it's probably not time yet.
[26:30] And you can go about your day.
[26:32] Look, I personally think it sets you up for a more positive early labor experience rather than going, great, I'm in labor.
[26:40] I'm expecting it to progress.
[26:41] Why isn't it progressing?
[26:43] So going about your day until you can no longer continue to go about your day.
[26:50] Deny these early contractions as long as you can until you can no longer deny them because there will become a time in your labor where you think, no, I can no longer deny this.
[27:02] I'm clearly in labor.
[27:04] These contractions are taking my attention.
[27:06] I have to stop.
[27:07] I have to breathe.
[27:07] I have to change position.
[27:09] I can't concentrate on the things that are going on around me.
[27:12] And it seems as though this strategy worked for Alice and it's certainly something that I recommend to my clients.
[27:18] So, you know, keep that in mind for a strategy that could help you in the early labor phase to just set your expectations appropriately.
[27:28] So I ended up just going by my day.
[27:31] And I think if I learned anything from this sort of, this, this sort of free labor labor was it was actually really good to gaslight myself, like to pretend that nothing was happening.
[27:43] And I think.
[27:45] It was because I basically just went on my day, did my things, chatted to my mates, went for a walk, like went to the beach, basically distracted myself to a point where I knew things were going on, but it wasn't a stressful thing.
[27:59] It wasn't like I had to kind of go and...
[28:01] you know, start putting my TENS machines on and start having a shower or whatever, or, you know, get stressed and start washing all these clothes or whatever.
[28:09] So it was really good.
[28:11] And I also think it went, it meant that labor felt a bit quicker because I had two hours where I was like, technically not in labor.
[28:20] So by about nine o'clock, I then started to get these contractions.
[28:25] I was like, okay, coming every three minutes, five minutes,
[28:29] there's an element of rhythm to this.
[28:32] This is definitely not Braxton Hicks.
[28:34] This is
[28:34] you know, Linda was right.
[28:36] Something's going on.
[28:37] Now, by this time, TJ and I were just friends.
[28:42] We're like, we're not prepared.
[28:43] Like I'm still, I just went on maternity leave yesterday.
[28:46] Like I've got so much stuff to get done, but I tried not to stress.
[28:50] TJ was like, babe, you go into the other room.
[28:52] You sort yourself, like just do whatever you need to do.
[28:55] Be calm, like go into your zone.
[28:57] I'm going to do everything.
[28:58] So he kind of called his mom from Brisbane,
[29:05] TJ was like cleaning all Tide's clothes that we hadn't cleaned yet I just went into my zone so I put on my music I created like a bit of a birth playlist before I was in labor thank goodness thank goodness that was the one thing I was organized about it was music that made me feel really centered and empowered it wasn't like
[29:24] beats or anything.
[29:25] It was very feminine.
[29:27] I don't know how to explain it.
[29:30] It's kind of like a bit sort of meditative.
[29:33] Yeah.
[29:34] But yeah, I don't know.
[29:36] I can share it in the show notes if you want, but it's a really, a lot of people asking me for the playlist because it was on the YouTube episode that I did, but it was a beautiful playlist and it really centered me and
[29:48] Essentially from about nine to 10, that was when I was like, okay, I need, like, I'm in labor.
[29:55] I've accepted this.
[29:56] Like, this isn't just hanging out, you know, wearing myself.
[29:59] I'm in labor and I'm going to sort of start, you know, getting ready and preparing and
[30:04] In that hour, I used lots of natural pain management tools.
[30:09] So the TENS machine was really, really useful.
[30:13] The combs, which I'll go into a little bit later, were really useful.
[30:17] I went into the shower for a little bit as well and basically just stuck on my hands and knees for the whole time.
[30:23] The thought of sitting up on my back was repulsive, to be honest.
[30:27] So the
[30:29] Yeah, I just spent that hour just like centering myself and doing all those things and going back and forth.
[30:34] Something actually I learned on the Great Barofa Berlin, I think was about breathing techniques.
[30:39] Something that I did during that time and then I guess later on too was lots of those sort of really rhythmic and like deep belly breaths.
[30:49] But, you know, not in a way where I didn't teach myself how to breathe.
[30:54] I didn't do any courses or anything.
[30:57] I think for me, it just felt instinctual.
[31:00] It wasn't something that I had to kind of practice every day and be like, all right, three breaths in, two breaths out.
[31:05] Like it wasn't nothing.
[31:06] And I think that's something that, you know, could be useful for listeners is like, it can actually be quite instinctual if you let your body do the thing.
[31:14] And if you think about it, deep belly breaths, long breath out, like it feels right.
[31:21] So doing what feels right rather than doing what the courses tell you to do.
[31:25] Yeah, because we had that episode with Emma Johnston.
[31:28] Yeah, that's right.
[31:30] And she just talked a lot about, you know, just bigger than normal breath for relaxation.
[31:36] Yeah.
[31:37] And labor can be a time of unusual stress.
[31:40] Like if you're doing it for the first time, even if you're not frightened and just reminding yourself like bigger than normal breath.
[31:48] That's yeah.
[31:48] That's so true.
[31:50] Yeah.
[31:51] It's so simple, right?
[31:52] It was cool.
[31:53] So that was like that one hour period.
[31:54] Yeah.
[31:55] Mind you, I was expecting to like have that one hour period over like six hours.
[31:59] So like, I was like, all right, I'm in this for a long run, guys.
[32:02] Let's get comfortable.
[32:03] Between 10 or nine and 10, my contractions basically went from 20 seconds to a minute, a minute and a half.
[32:10] And they were a minute gap.
[32:12] So I was having three or four contractions within 10 minutes.
[32:14] And Linda told me like, give me a buzz when that happens.
[32:19] And 45 minutes later, I'm like, babe, mom.
[32:21] I think we have to get the bathroom ready in the best and this baby's coming out way quicker.
[32:27] Yeah, I basically jumped in the car.
[32:30] I had my clary sage in one hand, my comb in the other, my tens machine on my back, my beautiful music in the car.
[32:38] And TJ, my partner, was driving like 20 kilometers an hour because the birth center we went to was like up in the valley and on a mountain.
[32:45] So it was the best of roads, I will say that.
[32:48] And it was possibly the most uncomfortable part of the birth.
[32:53] was in the car.
[32:55] How far was it?
[32:56] How long did you have to travel?
[32:57] It was, so 25 minutes on a good day, 40 minutes when you give birth.
[33:02] Yeah.
[33:03] It's a long time, isn't it?
[33:05] It was, but you know what?
[33:07] I don't know if this is an unhealthy way of, of coping with labor.
[33:11] But I actually feel like I dissociated for that period of time because I was like, this is really painful, but I'm going to just like get out of my body.
[33:20] It was actually really helpful.
[33:22] Yes, it was painful, but it was like I just knew that if it's 40 minutes, that means I've got maybe like 10 contractions or whatever.
[33:31] And so like, I'm just going to let that happen.
[33:33] I'm going to breathe my clary sage.
[33:34] I'm just going to be on another planet.
[33:36] It really helped.
[33:38] And then we got there and I was like, oh, what a fear.
[33:41] What?
[33:41] This birth center that's like in the valley.
[33:45] It sounds really remote.
[33:47] It's not really, but it's Mewithumbah in Northern Rivers.
[33:51] So it's, you know, Byron Bay.
[33:53] It's kind of like inland from Byron up north a little bit more.
[33:58] So we're coming from kind of Kingscliff area and we had to sort of go inland and up and then down and around and all this stuff.
[34:06] So, yeah, it wasn't.
[34:09] Is it part of the hospital service?
[34:12] Yeah.
[34:13] So it's part of the hospital, the Wimbledon Bath Hospital, but it's not really.
[34:17] Like I've never been to the hospital.
[34:19] I've only ever been to the birth centre.
[34:20] It's beautiful.
[34:21] Like highly recommend it if anyone's in the area of Northern Rivers.
[34:25] But, yeah, so, you know, we got there.
[34:27] And by this point, I was kind of in my own world.
[34:30] Like I remember meeting my widow out the front and I was like, this is so random.
[34:35] But like, I don't know, I just felt really weird.
[34:38] It's like I've been dropped off at school.
[34:39] Like if this is like a weird thing, I'm giving birth and I'm just like dropped off at school.
[34:46] And I'm going up to my classroom.
[34:49] Maybe I was just in a weird zone and I thought that was just like the funniest thing ever.
[34:53] But we got up to the centre and something that I really, really appreciate is when I had my midwife appointment, so every one month or two weeks or however long,
[35:05] Everyone I had was in the birth room that I was going to give birth at.
[35:09] I know that's not always possible, but that was sort of a really intentional thing that the midwives did.
[35:15] So when I went to the birth center and when I went to the birth room, it was so familiar to me.
[35:20] It was like kind of a home birth, but with a little bit of kind of intervention, I guess you could say, or sort of like cross between a hospital birth and a home birth.
[35:30] So yeah,
[35:31] I knew what the bath looked like.
[35:33] I knew what the bed looked like.
[35:34] I knew what things were around rather than just going to a hospital and be like, okay, you're in room 16.
[35:40] See you later.
[35:41] So we turned up and God bless Linda, she'd had the bath running, the essential oil diffuser on.
[35:47] So I let her know all of those things prior.
[35:50] So in my birth, I guess, like intentions, I wrote down, like what would be great if we do have options for that?
[35:58] So the bath, the diffuser, and we had the music play and things like that.
[36:03] So that was awesome.
[36:05] I got there and something that was in my birth intentions is like, if you don't need to, cervical checks can kind of pass.
[36:12] I don't really need them.
[36:14] Something that I learned through actually the Great Birth Rebellion podcast was that, but yeah, about like whether you need it, whether you don't, whether it's even important, whether it actually tells a story or whatever.
[36:24] We didn't check to see how dilated I was.
[36:27] To be honest, I feel like things were progressing so quickly that it wasn't necessary at all.
[36:32] But, yeah, I got there and I went straight into the bath.
[36:35] I felt like I needed to get in there basically from 11 to 12.
[36:42] labored in the bath, had the music playing.
[36:44] The bath was such a saving grace.
[36:47] I don't know if I would ever have a birth without a bath, if possible, just because it didn't take the pain away.
[36:55] I don't think anything does unless you get it like it.
[36:58] something but from a natural pain management point of view I don't think the aim of the pain management is to take the pain away to be able to manage it right so yeah I got in the bath and I was like this is this is manageable my combs which basically from what I was aware the combs kind of
[37:16] they kind of divert your pain receptors.
[37:19] So I had bruises on my hands because I was like, these don't, I swear, changed my life.
[37:27] But they were really good.
[37:28] So I had them in my hands the whole labour from when I was at the birth centre.
[37:33] Yeah, I was in the bath all fours for that entire hour.
[37:38] I really think that understanding how labour worked
[37:43] was really, really important in that time in particular, because there was one moment there where I said to my partner, I was like, I actually don't think I can do this anymore.
[37:55] And I remember thinking back, maybe it was an episode where I was like, wait, that's really good.
[38:02] Because it means that I'm nearly there.
[38:05] And I know that's maybe a messed up way of thinking, but I remember thinking, okay, probably transition.
[38:10] We're getting close.
[38:12] This is a really good thing to think.
[38:14] Yeah.
[38:15] Yeah.
[38:15] That's exactly right.
[38:17] Even I said it.
[38:18] I was already a midwife when I had my babies.
[38:19] I was like, oh, my gosh, it's so hard.
[38:22] Wait.
[38:23] Like, as I was saying it, I'm like, we know what's going on.
[38:27] You are getting to the end because you feel like you can't go on.
[38:30] And you're like, that's because you weren't happy.
[38:31] Absolutely.
[38:32] A hundred percent.
[38:33] Right.
[38:34] And I think that's where that education comes in.
[38:36] It's like, if I had no idea, I would literally think this is when I need the epidural.
[38:41] Like I, I can't do this for more than a few more hours.
[38:44] And it's like, I wouldn't have had to, because I knew that my body was going to finish soon or I was going to have the baby soon.
[38:51] So that was really, really cool.
[38:53] That was really cool.
[38:54] And then there was a time where I noticed this was about 11.30.
[38:59] I noticed my body pushing.
[39:02] And mind you, I hadn't really done any like pushing this or anything like that.
[39:09] That was not even a part of my birth preparation.
[39:11] Yeah.
[39:12] I didn't even know if it is necessary, but I didn't know how to push, basically.
[39:17] But my body did it.
[39:19] And I learned through my preparation, through surrendering and all that, that it actually is quite likely that your body does push when you don't have drugs involved.
[39:28] And so when I felt that intense urge to push, I knew that it was right.
[39:33] I wasn't scared of it.
[39:35] Whereas I felt like if I hadn't educated myself on that, you know, that fetal ejection reflex or that pushing, I think I would have stopped.
[39:42] I don't want to be like, oh my gosh, what's going on?
[39:43] Like my body's got, you know, got a mind of its own, which it does, but that's good.
[39:49] Essentially like push for 20 minutes and then the classic kind of ring of fire, all that happened.
[39:57] And I kind of had this feeling to sort of slow down and it wasn't like a conscious thing.
[40:05] thing like thing I thought and I think a lot of this labor wasn't a conscious thing it wasn't like all right now step two pause and like there wasn't any of that it was like this trust in my body that I could you know I could do that I could trust it I kind of pushed for a little bit stopped the bath was definitely helpful in that and Tide was born at sort of 12 30 so yeah just I'm
[40:30] an hour and a half after getting into the birth center.
[40:33] Yes, it was like 7.30 in the morning when you, you know, we in hindsight realized your waters had broken.
[40:40] Yeah, yeah.
[40:41] So they labeled it as a three-hour labor and 26 minutes of pushing.
[40:45] So the early labor was that sort of 7.30 and then it kind of really by the time it actually started getting in those regular contractions that's when they sort of.
[40:54] So that sort of started.
[40:55] Yeah.
[40:56] Mostly this is quite a rapid first birth.
[41:01] Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[41:02] I was told in hindsight.
[41:05] It definitely went for zero to 100, but that's very Alice quoted.
[41:09] But you know what was fascinating is, so I didn't, thankfully I didn't have any tears or anything.
[41:14] Like they said to me, they're like, you don't even look like you've given birth.
[41:17] Like when they were like assessing me.
[41:19] And I was like, look, sorry.
[41:20] I don't know if I did.
[41:24] But I honestly think in hindsight, like really looking at it, there's a couple of reasons why I might not have said.
[41:30] And one of them I think I put down to the bar because it was so warm and comforting and I felt relaxed.
[41:36] But then also sort of that slow breathing and that latter part of that sort of transition period where I didn't push.
[41:43] Like it wasn't an effort.
[41:45] It was like my body was doing it.
[41:47] And I think trusting that was really necessary.
[41:50] And I didn't even mention this.
[41:54] before I gave birth for a few weeks too.
[41:57] So probably a plethora of things that help with that non-tearing.
[42:04] Yeah, I mean, you're right.
[42:05] So already you were also in a comfortable space, not on your back.
[42:10] So in the birth pool is its own position.
[42:13] Even if you're reclining back, you're not on your back in a birth pool.
[42:17] Nobody telling you to push when you didn't feel ready.
[42:21] Yes.
[42:22] And it sounds like there was a real intentionality to just surrender to whatever your body was going to do.
[42:28] So there's kind of not this internal mental battle with your body.
[42:33] And waiting for your body to take over like that.
[42:36] Your body's ready.
[42:37] Your body's saying, I'm ready now to push the baby out rather than trying to get the baby out sooner than that.
[42:42] You know, it's, yeah, the whole combination of things and the parenting message, being cared for by a midwife, you know, good nutrition in your pregnancy, all part of it.
[42:53] Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[42:54] It's like a puzzle, isn't it?
[42:56] Yeah, I didn't even mention this actually with the midwife.
[43:00] The midwives didn't really intervene in a really good way.
[43:03] Like they did so much, but they did so little at the same time in the sense of, you know,
[43:11] They didn't tell me, stop pushing, start pushing.
[43:14] They didn't say anything in the best way possible.
[43:18] So I think that that was really helpful too in that pushing phase.
[43:22] They just trusted me and that made me trust myself and my partner as well trust me.
[43:28] So it was this, yeah, symbiotic relationship we had without even establishing one formally.
[43:34] So it was really positive.
[43:36] You talked about your placental births.
[43:38] that wives felt maybe there was a bit more blood than they were comfortable with.
[43:43] Yeah.
[43:45] Long story short, so I gave birth and the water started to darken as it does because, you know, you bleed a little bit.
[43:54] They were mentioning because my blood pressure was a little bit low and, you know,
[43:58] in that labor period.
[43:59] I was actually really sick giving birth, which didn't help them with the breathing.
[44:04] But anyway, my blood pressure was low as a result.
[44:07] So I was losing a little bit of blood and the midwife, they actually talked to TJ.
[44:12] So I had no idea what was going on.
[44:14] And they were like, so I was losing a little bit of blood.
[44:17] We're actually, it's darkening like more than we would like.
[44:21] So we're thinking about getting her out and they're like, do you reckon that's okay?
[44:25] And he was like, yeah, just talk to her.
[44:26] That's fine.
[44:27] Which I think was really nice actually for them to go to TJ first.
[44:31] They know how much trust I have in TJ because TJ is quite in tune with how I feel a lot of the time.
[44:36] So he may have been like, no, she's,
[44:38] doesn't want you to talk about that or like, yes, get her out or whatever.
[44:41] So yeah, they went up to me and they're like, you know, you're losing a little bit of blood.
[44:45] You don't have to, but we would like if we could get you out so we can assess or manage or at least look at how much blood you're losing.
[44:54] Because basically when you're in a bath, right, like you can't really assess how much blood you're losing because it's diluted with water.
[45:00] So I was actually fine with that.
[45:02] Like I didn't really have any
[45:06] concerns like I was so stoked I was like I just had a baby that's fine as long as I can hold him still and as long as I can have that sort of physiological placental birth it's okay it's not the end of the world
[45:18] Now, what Alice is talking about here with physiological placental birth is about the technique that she decided to use to give birth to her placenta.
[45:26] And we've got a whole Great Birth Rebellion podcast episode on different types of placental birth techniques, if you want to call it that, different ways to give birth to your placenta.
[45:37] And I've linked that in the show notes below for you so you can have a listen to that if you want to learn about placental birth.
[45:42] But for you playing at home, again, if you're new to the game,
[45:47] Once you give birth to your baby, you are going to have to give birth to the placenta.
[45:52] It's in there.
[45:53] It'll stay attached to your uterus for a short time after the baby's born, but then it needs to detach, come away and come out.
[45:59] And giving birth to your placenta, just like giving birth to your baby where there's a labor process and a birth process, there is also a labor and birth process to your placenta.
[46:09] You're not finished yet after you have your baby.
[46:12] And Alice chose to have a physiological third stage, physiological placental birth.
[46:17] And what that means is that just like we wait for the baby to come and let the baby emerge under the woman's own power, same thing with the placenta.
[46:27] You go through the labor process of placental birth and then give birth to your placenta without medication, without any medical interventions.
[46:39] That's a less common way of giving birth, but certainly it's the way that we prioritize it in low intervention settings, like where Alice gave birth.
[46:50] You know, it's something that I practice as a home birth midwife the majority of the time.
[46:54] However, if you're giving birth in hospital and you want to have a physiological placental birth, you are going to have to ask for that and potentially advocate for that because it's a less common way of giving birth to your placenta in hospital.
[47:07] In hospitals, they'll often prioritize what we call active management of the placenta.
[47:13] And what that means is that you'll be given an injection of artificial oxytocin, depending on where you live.
[47:19] It's sometimes called syntocinon or pitocin.
[47:23] And you'll be given an injection of that and then they'll wait for signs that placenta is detaching.
[47:28] So sometimes there can be a gush of blood and the cord lengthens as the placenta detaches.
[47:34] And they'll wait for that.
[47:35] Then they'll put their hand on your tummy and another on the cord and apply traction and pull on the cord to bring out your placenta.
[47:44] With actively managed placental births.
[47:47] you have to participate a lot less.
[47:49] Women aren't necessarily as involved in the placental birth as with physiological placental birth.
[47:55] However, and you'll hear in the other podcast episode about placental birth, one that's linked in the show notes, is that you can layer some of the elements of physiological placental birth with active management and still get good outcomes.
[48:10] So what Alice is talking about here is physiological placental birth, but this might not necessarily be your experience.
[48:17] If you're in a birth location that favors active management, they also may not tell you that they're going to do active management and just assume that you understand.
[48:26] Sometimes they'll say to you, hey, do you mind if we give you this injection?
[48:30] Sometimes I just tell you they are giving you the injection and you don't even have time to object or to discuss it.
[48:38] And so if you do want to have a physiological placental birth, it's important to discuss this earlier before you get to the point of actually giving birth to the placenta.
[48:48] Because it does take some negotiating sometimes with your care provider if that's not their usual practice.
[48:55] They got me out of the bath and popped me on the bed and that was all fine.
[48:59] They still had the music playing, lights dimmed, all of that.
[49:03] It was fascinating because I'd been in the bath the whole labour basically.
[49:08] getting out and going on my back was a really uncomfortable position, really uncomfortable.
[49:14] And I, I,
[49:16] maybe naively so, didn't realise actually how painful sometimes placental births are.
[49:22] It was really weird.
[49:23] Like I had to kind of push this placenta out.
[49:26] I just thought it would just like slip out.
[49:27] Like surely I just gave birth to a baby.
[49:28] Like surely the placenta is not that hard, right?
[49:31] But because I'd been on my back and the whole labour I'd been misbarced on my old fours, it was just this really interesting contrast, sorry, between positions.
[49:40] So yeah, I did...
[49:43] I said to my midwife, actually like 20 minutes in to the third stage of the placenta birth.
[49:48] I said, Linda, can you just pull it out?
[49:51] Like, I was like getting angry because it was like really annoying me that I just wanted to be with my baby and not have to deal with the placenta.
[49:59] Long story short.
[50:00] She ended up kind of like looking and seeing if it had detached, which it had, but there was not too much blood loss.
[50:07] So she kind of just said, push this out.
[50:08] Like it was going to come out with the next contraction.
[50:10] So pushed it out and it was just like, you know, as it does.
[50:14] And then the contractions pretty much stopped after that.
[50:18] So yeah.
[50:19] It was a fascinating situation, but, you know, I'm not sad about it.
[50:23] It was just the way it goes.
[50:24] And I would rather have a conservative approach with blood loss postpartum than, you know, stick with a bath and, you know, something happening.
[50:32] It actually sounds like such a typical placental birth story.
[50:36] Yeah.
[50:37] It's like a whole other thing to do and it does require effort.
[50:41] You know, it's this little moment where you have to still give the placental birth some attention.
[50:46] Yeah, you have to do it.
[50:48] You have to do it.
[50:49] And, you know, I think it's not a painful thing.
[50:51] I don't want to scare people.
[50:52] Be like, oh, my gosh, it's as painful as labour or whatever.
[50:54] But it just, it's really annoying.
[50:57] It's an annoying thing that you have to do.
[50:58] You know what I mean?
[50:59] Like, study for exams.
[51:00] Like, you have to study.
[51:02] but you just do it you know I wish I didn't feel this way about placentas because I'm like yeah they're so amazing they're amazing but I'm like oh yeah I don't like this yeah we have to all concentrate on the
[51:14] placenta and you know that is the part once your baby comes out and you're waiting for placenta that's where the midwives are on you know they're hyperventilating about keeping an eye on your blood loss as they were and you're right in a pool you can vaguely estimate blood loss but you can't see how fast it's coming out or anything like that yeah it makes sense to have gotten out yeah absolutely like i i'm
[51:39] Like I have no shade on that situation at all.
[51:41] I think I passed the placenta within like half an hour, which is sort of a normal amount of time.
[51:46] And then, yeah, Teej and I basically had sort of an hour or two out.
[51:52] I actually don't even remember.
[51:53] I think it was an hour and a half, two out, where we just had our own space and the midwives just kind of left the room.
[52:00] Thankfully, like I was happy with that.
[52:02] They didn't just leave us to spend for ourselves.
[52:04] Yeah.
[52:05] But they knew that that was part of my birth intentions was to have that time.
[52:09] And yeah, then basically like I had a shower and we left the birth center.
[52:14] I think it was two and a half hours after we gave birth.
[52:18] So we were home by like five o'clock, had dinner.
[52:21] I was like, this is so incredibly amazing, but so random.
[52:26] Just like a regular work day, you know.
[52:28] It's actually what...
[52:30] My midwife said, she's like, I'm going to yoga tonight.
[52:32] I'm like, you do you, boo.
[52:33] Like, you go to yoga.
[52:34] I'm just going to go home, like, with my child.
[52:37] Yeah.
[52:37] And then we just, yeah, we just had dinner and went to bed.
[52:40] It was just the most peculiar thing, but it was amazing.
[52:44] It just totally flips the script on what women are told about birth.
[52:48] It sounds like you just really honed in on a great model of care, that you had care providers who were completely aligned with your intentions.
[52:58] that you were informed enough to make decisions that felt right to you, that you weren't frightened to the point where you could submit and surrender to your body.
[53:09] You did all that, made really a lot of preparations, a lot of your preparations in your pregnancy I think set you up for this experience.
[53:18] So, you know, I think it's hats off as well.
[53:21] When women make choices, controllable factors that make a big difference
[53:28] even that you didn't have any vaginal exams, you know, these kinds of things aren't always possible.
[53:33] Even for low-risk women in hospitals, it becomes a battle for,
[53:37] And so it sounds like you chose the things that really set you up for this experience.
[53:43] So like first kudos for all that.
[53:45] And thank you.
[53:46] I appreciate that.
[53:47] It's, there's a lot of controllable factors that we can apply that just increase your chances of this kind of experience playing out.
[53:55] We just mentioned here that there are things that you can do and decisions that you can make that will affect your birth experience.
[54:05] There are ways that you can curate a great birth for yourself or really at least improve the chances of you having a great birth.
[54:14] There are some basic strategies that once you know about them, you can implement them for yourself.
[54:20] There's no time to go through each of them today here in this episode.
[54:25] And that's why I want to invite you to my free masterclass where I share what I know about how to curate a great birth experience.
[54:32] This is actually the first real-time event that I've ever won for women and their partners.
[54:38] And I'm inviting you now.
[54:40] to join me live online on June 27th, 2025 for a free two-hour get-together with me where I share my tips for planning a great birth.
[54:52] The link to register is in the show notes and if you're listening to this as part of a back catalogue and you're thinking, oh no, it's beyond June 27th,
[55:01] Don't worry, the session will be recorded and it's available to listen online after the date.
[55:07] So you can still go to melanethemidwife.com to watch the full masterclass for free.
[55:13] But the advantage of joining live with me is that we can interact in real time and there will be a time and space for questions in this live online version.
[55:25] I've never made myself available like this before.
[55:29] There are over 50,000 people who listen to this podcast every week.
[55:33] So register for the live event online.
[55:36] Now the link is in the show notes.
[55:38] I'm keen to show you how to curate a great birth for yourself in this free live masterclass.
[55:45] Again, thank you for joining us.
[55:46] If it's after the date, you can still go to melaniethemidwife.com and see the recording of the masterclass.
[55:53] But if in any way you can make it live, we will get to interact.
[55:57] You can ask your questions.
[55:58] If you are coming live or if you register for the live event and you can't be there, don't worry.
[56:04] After the event, I will automatically send you a recording of the masterclass.
[56:10] And you can always have that there as a resource.
[56:12] I will see you there.
[56:14] The link is in the show notes.
[56:15] Yeah, and that's right.
[56:16] It increases your chances.
[56:18] It doesn't mean that you do this and you have the birth that I have or anything like that.
[56:23] It's just what you can control and what you're willing to control and doing that and then that's it.
[56:29] letting the other things that you can't control be.
[56:31] The other thing I think is really important to mention is when I was looking into ways that I wanted birth, I also considered other options that might happen too.
[56:42] So for example, if I were to have a C-section for whatever reason, what that would look like and why that would happen if I need to, or if I needed to have an
[56:52] what that would look like and why would I need to?
[56:55] I don't want to prepare for a C-section, but I'm going to educate myself about it in case it happens.
[57:01] So I have that peace of mind.
[57:02] And also what can I choose in that situation that I can still have control over?
[57:08] Can I do skin to skin?
[57:10] Can I do an hour of the golden hour?
[57:12] Can I get TG to cut the cord?
[57:14] Can I do delayed cord camping?
[57:16] What part of
[57:17] the things that I can't control and can control in these situations.
[57:21] And I think that's really important because I know that it might feel like you're considering a C-section if you're looking into it.
[57:28] It's like, no, no, no.
[57:29] Like you don't have to do that.
[57:32] It can just be that's an option, that's a possibility if that comes to it.
[57:35] Because sometimes you have to.
[57:37] We're so lucky we have the medical repertoire to be able to do those things if they need to happen.
[57:43] But it's not like you're, you know, you're fully victim to, you know,
[57:46] you know, the medicalisation spectrum, if you do even think of it as a potential outcome.
[57:51] Well, that's right.
[57:52] And so many of my clients are like, I don't even want to think about it.
[57:54] It's not going to happen.
[57:56] If I think about it, then it's almost like you're manifesting it in that way.
[57:59] And I'm like, no, no, this is you being prepared for every scenario.
[58:04] Because if you are, if we do end up in a scenario where you need a cesarean section or you need to consider an episiotomy or vacuum or force it, and you know nothing about them, then you know nothing about all of your options.
[58:16] Yeah.
[58:16] That's right.
[58:17] And actually there are choices and opportunities within those things that you can control.
[58:22] So I love that you mentioned that because it is important to prepare for all possibilities so that you go, okay, that's all right, we're reverting to the cesarean plan and I still have control over sort of 50% of the things that are going to happen.
[58:38] Yeah.
[58:39] And that makes the experience a lot easier.
[58:42] less disappointing.
[58:43] Intimidating and scary and disappointing, right?
[58:47] Because it doesn't feel like it's been taken away from you and like forced on you.
[58:52] It's like, no, okay, this is a situation that's coming out.
[58:54] Not my fault, but what part of it can I control?
[58:57] What part of it can I have?
[58:59] say in.
[59:00] I know that the great birth of rebellion has talked a lot about this, about coercive control and ethics and how we have informed consent.
[59:06] There are so many things you can do as females and as partners in the birth space that we don't think we can do.
[59:15] And we can do so much.
[59:17] We can have so much say in what we are willing to accept and not accept.
[59:22] But without knowing what you can and can't, then how are we going to ever
[59:26] say what we feel like we want, you know?
[59:28] So I think it's really, really important to understand where your responsibility lies in all outcomes rather than just your nice little ideal outcome over here.
[59:42] Yeah.
[59:42] And then if you're unprepared for the other scenarios, then you get more swept up in it, in a stressful situation that you don't want to be in.
[59:50] And then all of a sudden, you have no idea what your options are.
[59:54] So I'm so glad you mentioned that, even though your scenario played out the way you had hoped that you were still prepared for all the other scenarios that could have unfolded.
[1:00:03] For sure.
[1:00:05] Yeah.
[1:00:05] Yeah.
[1:00:05] And my midwife was open with that too.
[1:00:07] She was like,
[1:00:08] This is, you know, we don't want a C-section, but if you do, like, you know, unfortunately with the births and you can't give C-sections there, like that's not possible.
[1:00:17] So I had to go to a tweet.
[1:00:19] So that's, you know, we had to talk about that because, you know, I don't want to be, you know, in the depths of labor and then I have to have a C-section and go on ambulance for half an hour.
[1:00:27] Like that would be traumatic.
[1:00:29] But if I knew beforehand that that was the situation I'd have to go into, you know,
[1:00:33] then I feel like that would be far less from me.
[1:00:35] Is there anything that, you know, if you get pregnant again and you get to plan another birth, is there anything you think you would do differently from this time?
[1:00:44] Do you know what?
[1:00:46] I don't want to sound like a little bit of a loser, but I actually don't think I would change anything.
[1:00:50] No, like I honestly, yeah, I truly don't think I would change anything.
[1:00:57] Like I had,
[1:00:59] the most ideal birth and to be honest, better than I would have imagined because it was three hours, not, you know, 20.
[1:01:06] But yeah, I actually wouldn't change anything.
[1:01:09] Like even the whole midwife, midwifery group practice, all of that, like that was beautiful.
[1:01:15] And the aftercare and all of that that was involved was amazing.
[1:01:19] To be honest, if I really, like if I'm trying to be really critical, it would be maybe I would get a lactation consultant in the first few days after birth, which is amazing.
[1:01:30] there has been some latching issues that we've been struggling with, but like that's not really related to birth.
[1:01:35] But like apart from that, yeah, I don't think I would change much.
[1:01:41] Yeah.
[1:01:41] Oh, if only that's my wish for the whole world.
[1:01:44] Yeah.
[1:01:44] That if you asked a woman like is there anything that you would change that they go, do you know what, absolutely not.
[1:01:51] I would repeat that all over again.
[1:01:53] That is just magic.
[1:01:56] And I guess the reason I –
[1:01:59] I'm so pleased that you decided to share your birth story on the Great Birth Rebellion.
[1:02:04] It really shows women that this is possible.
[1:02:07] It's not some weird fantasy that we write about in books or that I sit here and spout on about.
[1:02:13] It's real women having really fulfilling births that they would willingly repeat.
[1:02:18] But I do think it takes conscious effort.
[1:02:22] Yeah, I'm going to say that.
[1:02:24] I had a few people being like, you're just lucky.
[1:02:27] You're lucky.
[1:02:28] look, I think there's an element of luck that's involved with this.
[1:02:31] Like, absolutely.
[1:02:32] There's no denying it.
[1:02:34] And some people do get unlucky, but I have been very conscious in my preparation, you know, and educating myself and knowing what I want.
[1:02:43] And
[1:02:43] preparing my body, you know, going to acupuncture, doing sort of my pelvic floor exercises, doing my perineal stretching, having a great support partner, making sure that my midwife and I are aligned.
[1:02:54] Like there are a lot of things that I consciously did to prepare for labour and during birth as well that weren't luck.
[1:03:02] So, yeah, I think that's a really good thing that people can learn is like you have so much at your fingertips that you can you can take advantage of, but you need to take advantage of it.
[1:03:11] You can't just go, I really want a good birth and not know what that birth looks like.
[1:03:16] You know, you own that.
[1:03:18] You own the fact I'm pregnant.
[1:03:21] I'm going to need to put some effort into this.
[1:03:23] Not dissimilar to like, hey, I love my partner and we want to get married.
[1:03:27] It's like you don't just show up to a wedding venue.
[1:03:30] What are you going to give me?
[1:03:32] Throw me a wedding.
[1:03:33] You go there and you make a plan and you tell them what you want and you're like, this would be ideal.
[1:03:37] And they're like, well, here's our three options.
[1:03:39] You want to choose one of those.
[1:03:40] Yeah.
[1:03:41] Women do, unfortunately or not, women do have to take responsibility over the things that they can control.
[1:03:50] And there are things that are out of control.
[1:03:51] So the fact that you even had access to a mid-reef-free care program and a birth center were fortunate.
[1:03:57] Sure.
[1:03:58] Yes.
[1:03:58] There's women who don't have that, but then we can, we can also still try and make the best out of really crappy situations.
[1:04:04] You know, some women are only a hospital near me.
[1:04:08] And you go, Hey, maybe you could take a doula with you or maybe you could spend longer at home.
[1:04:14] And not going to go there at the last minute.
[1:04:15] So we still have to make the most out of the scenarios that are presented to us.
[1:04:22] And some people are like, oh, we shouldn't have to.
[1:04:25] I'm like, yeah, but we do, though, because the system is not always on our side.
[1:04:29] Right.
[1:04:30] No, no.
[1:04:31] And like, it's the unfortunate fact is that like, you know, we shouldn't have to, but we do.
[1:04:36] It's not your fault, but it's your responsibility.
[1:04:39] And we are as women responsible for how we prepare for labor.
[1:04:43] Like no one's going to do it for us, unfortunately, but let's flip that narrative and go,
[1:04:48] we are responsible for how we do labour.
[1:04:51] Like, that's amazing.
[1:04:52] We've got so much, like, responsibility.
[1:04:55] Like, this is all in, like, our power.
[1:04:57] Yeah, and let's use our power for that and for that benefit rather than being like, I don't know, I have to do labour.
[1:05:04] Yeah, you need to be swept up in it.
[1:05:07] There's so many powerful factors.
[1:05:09] You don't have to just go with the flow and accept whatever happens.
[1:05:12] You're like, actually, I have the power, responsibility,
[1:05:19] control parts of my journey yeah I think that's an interesting story yeah yeah and I want to say as well like something that really motivated me to educate myself and to look into things is it wasn't for me as such it was for my baby and my partner and I say that because I know a positive birth experience can result in a positive postpartum experience and for me I'm like
[1:05:45] look, if I can do anything for my baby and for my partner, it's to be in a good space postpartum.
[1:05:51] What can I do for that?
[1:05:52] Okay, well, I can't necessarily control what my baby's, you know, personality is like or temperament.
[1:05:58] I can't control a lot of things, you know, when it comes to that, but I can control my birth experience and to an extent.
[1:06:05] So like, if that's what I can do, like,
[1:06:08] I'm going to do it, you know, why not?
[1:06:10] And make it a little thing that's interesting.
[1:06:12] Make it a hobby.
[1:06:13] Look into it.
[1:06:13] Like get excited about it if you feel like you can.
[1:06:17] Make it something that, you know, you go into it and be like, I've done everything I can and, you know, everything else is up to the universe to take hold of.
[1:06:27] But, yeah, it was a motivation for me.
[1:06:30] It was how I feel postpartum.
[1:06:32] Yeah, amazing.
[1:06:33] And that's, I mean, that's an investment in yourself.
[1:06:37] And it's a little bit like preparing for a marathon.
[1:06:41] If someone said, right, in approximately 35 weeks, you are going to run a marathon.
[1:06:47] It's going to be tricky, but you can do it.
[1:06:50] You need to gather...
[1:06:52] a team, a crew, prepare your body, you know, make a plan.
[1:06:57] How are you going to tackle this thing?
[1:06:59] You know, it's not similar.
[1:07:00] You're just preparing for an event that's going to happen.
[1:07:02] Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[1:07:03] And the thing is, is, like, so many people have run this marathon before you.
[1:07:07] Like, you're not special.
[1:07:08] Like, sorry, there's so many other people who have done this.
[1:07:12] And so many people who have been successful in running this marathon, you can do it because look at the evidence.
[1:07:19] We've been doing this since the dawn of time.
[1:07:20] So like if there's any sort of, you know, motivator, look at it.
[1:07:25] Like everyone before you is better.
[1:07:27] You were born this way, you know?
[1:07:29] Yes.
[1:07:31] Find your thing.
[1:07:32] Amazing.
[1:07:33] I'm so grateful that you decided to come and tell your story on our podcast.
[1:07:36] Oh, thanks.
[1:07:37] Thanks for listening.
[1:07:37] And honestly, yeah, I hope someone got something out of this and feels like they can.
[1:07:45] they can have a little bit more say in their labour or birth preparation because it is so, so empowering when you, you know, when you have the labour, not necessarily of a dream, but the labour that you prepared for at least like elements of it.
[1:07:58] And we all deserve that.
[1:07:59] Another take-home message is just prepare for every possibility and be ready.
[1:08:05] You're ready for a long labor.
[1:08:06] You're ready for a complex labor.
[1:08:08] You're ready for a quick one.
[1:08:10] You know, you're just ready.
[1:08:12] Thanks for being here, Alice.
[1:08:14] My pleasure.
[1:08:15] Ah, awesome.
[1:08:15] Yay.
[1:08:17] To get access to the resources for each podcast episode, join the mailing list at melaniethemidwife.com.
[1:08:24] And to support the work of this podcast, wear the rebellion in the form of clothing and other merch at thegreatbirthrebellion.com.
[1:08:33] Follow me, Mel, at Melody the Midwife on socials and the show at The Great Birth Rebellion.
[1:08:39] All the details are in the show notes.

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