# Episode 150 - Considering Homebirth?

An episode of [The Great Birth Rebellion](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1639430316), 10 May 2025, 58 min.

Audio: https://episode.flightcast.com/zhuoifsif64gfdqdj9bx7l3y.mp3

Are you exploring the option of homebirth? Today Renee Bargh, mum of 2 and television host tells the story of her 2 different births. One through MGP with an epidural and posterior baby and the other at home with a private midwife. I give commentary throughout to help you learn more from her story as we explore the option of giving birth at home and convincing her anaesthetist husband that it was a good idea. Meet our guest @reneebaugh Episodes that also relate to Renee’s story: • Episode - 115 Spinning Babies® with Gail Tully • Episode - 118 What is posterior labour like? • Episode - 120 Preparing for posterior labour • Episode - 20 Sterile water injections • Episode - 54 What midwives do at a homebirth • Episode - 81 How do homebirth midwives manage birth emergencies • Episode - 129 Giving birth to your placenta Get more from the Great Birth Rebellion Podcast • Join the podcast mailing list to access the resource folder from each episode at www.melaniethemidwife.com • Join the rebellion and show your support! Grab your Great Birth Rebellion merchandise now at www.thegreatbirthrebellion.com • Follow us on social media @thegreatbirthrebellion and @melaniethemidwife • If this podcast has improved your knowledge or pregnancy, birth or postpartum journey please consider thanking us financially by leaving a tip to support the ongoing work of this podcast. Disclaimer The information and resources provided on this podcast does not, and is not intended to, constitute or replace medical or midwifery advice. Instead, all information provided is intended for education, with it’s application intended for discussion between yourself and your care provider and/or workplace if you are a health professional. The Great Birth Rebellion podcast reserves the right to supplement, edit, change, delete any information at any time. Whilst we have tried to maintain accuracy and completeness of information, we do not warrant or guarantee the accuracy or currency of the information. The podcast accepts no liability for any loss, damage or unfavourable outcomes howsoever arising out of the use or reliance on the content. This podcast is not a replacement for midwifery or medical clinical care. All transcripts are generated by ai and may contain errors

## Transcript

[0:00] Welcome to the Great Birth Rebellion podcast.
[0:02] I'm your host Dr. Melanie Jackson.
[0:05] I'm a clinical and research midwife with my PhD and each episode I cast a critical eye over current maternity care practice by grappling with research and historical knowledge to help you get the best out of your pregnancy, birth and postpartum journey.
[0:23] Welcome to the Great Birth Rebellion podcast.
[0:25] Today, we're exploring the option of home birth.
[0:29] This is for you if you're thinking maybe you'd like to try a home birth, but still have some questions and concerns about whether or not it's practically possible for you.
[0:39] Maybe you don't feel safe having a home birth.
[0:42] Maybe you're trying to convince your partner to have a home birth.
[0:45] If that's you, today's story is for you.
[0:48] For long-term listeners of the Great Birth Rebellion podcast, you'll be very used to the style that I typically use through each podcast episode, where I have a look at some evidence, rifle through it and pull out little points and use that to formulate podcast episodes.
[1:05] That's still all going to be here.
[1:07] I'm just exploring some options to also share stories of women who have used the Great Birth Rebellion podcast as they make their decisions about their births.
[1:18] And through their stories, we can learn lessons.
[1:21] And as you'll hear, this is not the regular birth story podcast format.
[1:27] There'll be periods of time through the stories that the women tell where you'll hear a nice little sound effect.
[1:34] And that indicates to you that I'm about to chime in with some commentary.
[1:38] So on today's podcast, we're exploring home birth through a birth story told by our guest, Renee Barge, who is a hardworking mom.
[1:48] She's a television host, David Jones ambassador and long-term listener of the podcast.
[1:54] And as she tells her story, you'll hear commentary from me to help you fully understand the story and take home some little bite-sized lessons as we go.
[2:04] So today's episode is all about exploring the option of home birth through the birth story of Renee Barge, mom of two.
[2:13] Welcome to the Great Birth Rebellion podcast, Renee.
[2:15] Thank you so much for having me.
[2:16] This is like a full circle moment for me because I am such a huge fan of you and your work and this podcast.
[2:23] I think it became my Bible story.
[2:25] during both my pregnancies.
[2:26] So yeah, it's an honour.
[2:27] Why don't you just tell us about that to start with, and then we can introduce you to everybody.
[2:32] Why did the Great Birth Rebellion become your Bible?
[2:35] Well, it was actually I got on the group midwife practice with my first pregnancy and my midwife, she kind of gave me a few episodes to listen to when there was questions that I had come up around certain things.
[2:46] So I know it was the, sorry, what's it called?
[2:49] The gestational diabetes test, the glucose test.
[2:52] I had questions around that.
[2:53] I had questions around going too far in my pregnancy and over term and things.
[2:59] And so she would just send me a few episodes and then I just started listening to it for everything.
[3:04] Yeah.
[3:04] And the main reason was because my partner is a doctor and he, yeah,
[3:10] actually an anaesthetist.
[3:11] So that gets really interesting when we start talking about home birth.
[3:14] But it was really good because he is so evidence-based, you know, like everything has to be evidence-based and he understands the data so well.
[3:21] So the best way for me to get anything across the line was to have him listen to your podcast or be able to come back to him with things that I'd learned from listening to your podcast.
[3:31] So there was, yeah, there was a lot of episodes in the first pregnancy that were really helpful, but I'd say even more so with my second pregnancy.
[3:37] Well, how about we let the listeners know who you are first before we proceed to too far.
[3:42] And of course, I'm happy to just listen to you tell me all amazing things about the podcast and affirm my life's purpose for me.
[3:49] That would be amazing.
[3:51] But can you give us a brief introduction about who you are and what you do with your days at this part of your life and even earlier before you had kids?
[4:00] Well, first and foremost, I'm a mum and that is my favourite role to date for sure.
[4:06] I now am a mother of two, under two, and wow, nobody told me how hectic that was going to be.
[4:13] I feel like everyone who's done it before me lied or just didn't complain enough.
[4:18] So I am deep in the trenches.
[4:20] I have a three-month-old and a two-year-old.
[4:22] My days are spent very differently to how they were spent previously.
[4:30] And then the next baby wakes up and I feed him.
[4:32] I'm still feeding my two-year-old as well.
[4:34] So I'm tandem feeding, which I also didn't expect to do.
[4:37] And my partner works really long days as a doctor.
[4:39] So, you know, the mornings and the nights, they're both pretty much me full time at the moment while trying to also juggle work still because in my profession, there is really no maternity leave.
[4:51] So I'm, you know, when they go down, when one baby goes to sleep, I'm trying to hustle to get the other one to sleep or I've got.
[4:57] her in the carrier while I'm trying to, you know, do things like this or work on social content, stuff that I have to do, or my own podcast, Mum Era, hosting events.
[5:07] Tomorrow I'm hosting a big event for David Jones.
[5:09] So I'm still trying to maintain all these work things, but I am, you know, it's so hard because I really am just so deep in the postpartum mother haze.
[5:20] My brain is not working.
[5:22] I'm exhausted.
[5:23] I forgot what it's like to be up four to six times in the night.
[5:27] But I absolutely love it.
[5:29] It's what I always wanted.
[5:30] I always wanted to be a mom more than anything in the world.
[5:33] But that doesn't take away from how challenging it is.
[5:36] I think, you know, I realized when I went back to work after a year with my son, I went back to the Today Show.
[5:40] And that's my other life.
[5:43] My other part of me is that I am a television host.
[5:47] And for 10 years, I hosted a show called Extra.
[5:49] in Hollywood alongside Mario Lopez.
[5:51] So I used to cover all the red carpets, like the Oscars and the Grammys and Emmys and all of that for 10 years.
[5:57] And then I moved back to host The Voice and that was during COVID, so that kept me here.
[6:01] And then I met my partner and, you know, the rest is kind of history.
[6:05] And I've been working on The Today Show and doing things for Stan and other entertainment news outlets and everything.
[6:10] But, yeah, most importantly, my life and my role as a mum is kind of what's taken over.
[6:18] Yeah, it's very – I laugh all the time, especially when I'm on, you know, all fours on the floor scrubbing food off the ground and I'm thinking like I used to be on a carpet interviewing Brad Pitt and –
[6:30] Now I'm just yaking.
[6:31] I'm literally getting food thrown at me from a crazy toddler.
[6:34] It's just my life is just so different, but it is truly what I always hoped and dreamed of, but a hundred times harder and messier and more raw and more vulnerable and all of the things.
[6:45] Well, and you've had a big life and career before having kids.
[6:48] Yeah.
[6:49] Do you think it's been harder to be a parent or keep up with that life that you had before?
[6:55] Yeah.
[6:57] I think it's the separation of the two because I really, truly feel like there's these two parts of myself.
[7:03] There's a part of myself that just loves being barefoot on the beach with my kids and just, you know, immersed in their world for a day.
[7:12] But then there is that part of me that loves constantly.
[7:14] you know, being on camera and interviewing people and being in the industry.
[7:19] But I find it really hard and I'm still working that out.
[7:21] And maybe it's just because it's so new to me to merge those two worlds and, and to be the best and show up the best that I can in both those worlds, because I constantly feel guilty.
[7:31] And I know this is what every mother feels.
[7:33] But I constantly feel guilty when I'm with my kids that I'm, you know, on my phone too much.
[7:37] I'm trying, I'm still in work mode at times and I can't be a hundred percent present all of the time.
[7:41] And then when I'm at work, I'm missing them like crazy and I want to be with them.
[7:44] So yeah, I'm still figuring all of that out.
[7:47] But I will say when I went back to work on the today show, even though I had to be at work at four o'clock in the morning and you know, it's live on television and everything that was so much easier than being at home with my toddler.
[7:58] Yeah.
[7:59] So much easier.
[8:01] And I just instantly just turned to my partner and I was like, I am so jealous that you get to do this every day.
[8:06] Not that his work is easy at all, but I just thought, wow, like, you know, paid work is so much easier than the unpaid work of being a mom, a stay at home mom, especially when you have toddlers and you think it's hard when you've got a baby, but then you have a toddler and a baby and you're like, whoa.
[8:22] Yeah.
[8:22] The baby is a piece of cake.
[8:25] The toddler is chaos and it never stops.
[8:29] I have to agree with you.
[8:30] I had a whole new respect for mothers after becoming a mother myself.
[8:35] I thought I'd already done the hardest thing.
[8:37] You know, I had just nearly finished a PhD before my first baby.
[8:41] I thought, right, I've peaked.
[8:42] I've done the hardest thing anyone can ever do.
[8:44] And then I had a baby and I thought, cancel that.
[8:47] This is definitely the hardest thing.
[8:50] It's all the thankless work.
[8:51] Like it's everything that goes on, all the little things you do throughout your day that nobody sees and nobody knows about.
[8:57] And even your partner who's not there all day with you could ever really understand it because they never usually have to do it, you know, and they can't be feeding at the same time.
[9:06] You know, if you are breastfeeding, it's just a whole other layer.
[9:09] It's yeah, it's amazing.
[9:11] And I don't, I don't like complaining about it because I genuinely love it and live for it, but it is freaking hard.
[9:18] And I just think it shows how incredible women are as well, being able to juggle so many things.
[9:25] So fast forward.
[9:27] So you've had your first baby.
[9:29] I'm really keen.
[9:30] I'd love to hear the story of your first baby if you could briefly run through it.
[9:33] But I'm super keen to talk to you about your second birth.
[9:36] Mm-hmm.
[9:37] Let's start there.
[9:39] Let's go into birth stories.
[9:42] So my first birth and second were polar opposites.
[9:45] And the first, more so I think now in hindsight, being that you don't know what you don't know.
[9:51] And I think I went into it being as prepared as I possibly thought I could be.
[9:56] And I'm
[9:57] one of those people that when I'm doing something, I do all the research.
[9:59] So I listened to your podcast.
[10:01] I read Ina May.
[10:02] I did hypnobirthing.
[10:04] I really felt like I had done all the work.
[10:07] And so I deserve to have the birth that I wanted to have, which was a water birth is what I wanted to have.
[10:11] But I wanted to have that in the hospital.
[10:13] We live quite a far ways from the hospital.
[10:16] My partner's a doctor, all the risk, everything that you hear about and think about, we had a
[10:27] So we, you know, I was on the midwife group midwife practice.
[10:30] So I felt really comfortable with that.
[10:32] I felt really safe and I felt like I was going to get the birth that I wanted.
[10:35] Yeah.
[10:36] What Renee's talking about here with the midwifery group practice programs, if you're new to understanding what kind of services there are available to you when you're pregnant, at your local hospital, they might have set up a midwifery group practice, which means that you will be allocated a midwife that looks after you through your pregnancy, birth and postpartum.
[10:58] And this is one of the most evidence-based ways or I guess models of care that women can access.
[11:05] They've shown excellent outcomes for women.
[11:07] Women are very satisfied with the service when you compare it to a more fragmented model.
[11:13] So what Renee is talking about here is for her first pregnancy,
[11:16] She had chosen to go on the midwifery group practice program at her local hospital.
[11:21] And that's certainly something that I would recommend if you're planning your first birth and you're not considering a home birth.
[11:30] The next best thing is having continuity of midwifery care through one of the public programs.
[11:36] These are some of the best models of care that you can access if you haven't got access to a private midwife.
[11:43] Um, my waters broke first, uh, in the evening, like just as we were getting into bed and we were all excited and we're like, okay, it's happening.
[11:50] It's on my contractions were, I think they were between, it's hard to remember now, but I, I feel like they were maybe five to six minutes apart when they started and they started ramping up after a few hours.
[12:01] We called the hospital and they were like, oh, we think you should come in.
[12:05] Again, hindsight, definitely shouldn't have gone in.
[12:07] Had I had a doula, and that was my other thing that I feel like I did wrong the first, not that I did wrong, but I wish that I'd had a doula the first time, we probably would have stayed home a little longer, but we went straight in.
[12:19] And the other thing I did,
[12:20] Pretty much as soon as I got in and I was able to, I was allowed to, I got into the bath.
[12:24] And everything didn't slow down for me.
[12:28] My contractions still ramped up and I was in quite a lot of pain.
[12:33] And again, I didn't realize that the baby had gone posterior and nobody else in the room seemed to have really realized that.
[12:40] We tried doing the sterile water injections.
[12:42] We got me in and out of the pool.
[12:44] Everything we could.
[12:44] And anyway...
[12:46] Renee described a few strategies to help your posterior baby turn.
[12:51] So if your baby's in a posterior position, that means the baby's head down in your pelvis and the baby's back is leaning on your back.
[13:01] And so if you were to look straight on at a woman whose baby is posterior, you'll see her belly.
[13:07] And if you imagine the baby inside her belly, the baby's looking outwards towards her pubes.
[13:13] That's a less ideal position for your baby to be in when you're in labor.
[13:19] Ideally, the baby would be what we call anterior.
[13:21] So the baby's back would be along where your belly button is and the baby is facing to your bottom.
[13:28] We do have some episodes on managing posterior labor that you might find helpful.
[13:33] I'll list them in the show notes.
[13:35] Episode 115, 118 and 120.
[13:39] And Renee also referred to sterile water injections, which are a pain management strategy for the back pain that sometimes comes with posterior labor.
[13:48] And you can hear all about that in episode 20.
[13:51] Again, I'll put these in the show notes for you to refer back to.
[13:55] The long story short of that labor is that it was almost 18 hours of active labor.
[14:02] And I got to the point where I hadn't slept or eaten for 24 hours.
[14:07] I was so exhausted, you know, beyond.
[14:09] And the doctors, because my waters had been broken for over 24 hours at that point, they wanted to do a seizure.
[14:15] Yeah.
[14:15] In my head, the one thing I just really didn't want for myself was a C-section.
[14:20] I really wanted to push my baby out vaginally.
[14:22] And so my midwife, knowing that, was like, look, we're going to have to give you some Sinto.
[14:27] And I think at this point, the level of pain you're in, you're going to need an epidural.
[14:30] And to be honest, I had screamed asking for an epidural for like the last six hours, but everybody in my team knew.
[14:36] not to give it to me even if I asked for it.
[14:38] But by that point, they were all like, she's got to have it.
[14:40] It's been 23 hours or something.
[14:42] It's too much.
[14:43] So I had an epidural, rested for a little while.
[14:47] And then a couple hours later, I spent about an hour and a half pushing to get my son out.
[14:53] And one of the things that I was most proud of was that I was able to get up on all fours.
[14:56] That was the hardest part, I think, of my labor because I had such a heavy block in my legs to get on all fours.
[15:02] felt like I was pulling 200 kilos weights on each leg into that position.
[15:08] And then I pushed him out and I had very minimal tearing, but there was something that happened after where they basically took my catheter out straight away.
[15:17] And then I was in agony, like absolute agony.
[15:19] And my partner realized quickly that it was because, and he asked, you know, where's the catheter?
[15:23] And they said, Oh, we took it out.
[15:24] It's like, she still has a block.
[15:26] She can't get up.
[15:27] So then they put it back in and drained two liters of,
[15:29] of, yeah, of urine from my bladder.
[15:32] So hence the extreme pain.
[15:34] And what that meant was that I had to have the catheter in for 72 hours.
[15:39] And that combined with all of the drugs and everything, I just felt...
[15:43] horrible.
[15:44] I felt like I'd been hit by a truck.
[15:46] I couldn't get up and move for, it felt like days, maybe the next day I got up and had a shower, but for weeks I just felt just disgusting.
[15:54] And I think the hardest part for me after that birth was I definitely had a lot of birth trauma.
[15:59] I felt really disappointed in myself, which I, I, it makes me really sad now because I just think,
[16:07] we should never feel that way after doing something so incredibly powerful.
[16:10] But I think it was just because I was, as much as I thought I knew I was naive about a lot of things and things could have definitely gone very differently.
[16:19] I'm really glad my baby was safe and safe.
[16:22] I was safe, but it wasn't the outcome that I hoped for.
[16:25] And it was more the feeling afterwards because I remember seeing him in the little bed next to me and just having no energy to pick him up and just looking at him and being like, oh my gosh, he's so gorgeous, but I just can't touch him right now.
[16:36] I'm so exhausted and I feel so sick.
[16:39] And that was just such a vast contrast to my second.
[16:42] So I found out I was pregnant the second time and essentially I found a doula that I really loved because I was like, you know what?
[16:49] That's what I did wrong the first time.
[16:51] I'm going to have a doula this time.
[16:52] And when I spoke to her, she said, you know, what kind of birth do you want?
[16:56] I told her and she said, you know, it's not impossible for that to happen in the hospital, but it's more possible that you'll get that outcome and you'll have that experience at home.
[17:05] And I just was like, look, there's no way my partner's going to say yes to this home birth is just off the table.
[17:10] And she said, look, there's a great private midwife in your area, Janine O'Brien, who you know, and everybody knows in this area and loves.
[17:18] Just meet with her and see.
[17:19] And so I took my partner along.
[17:20] He asked her all the hardest hitting questions.
[17:23] My goodness.
[17:23] She said that she has never had questions like that from a husband or a partner ever before.
[17:28] Every possible risk, everything that could happen.
[17:31] And, I mean, she nailed it because we left the meeting with her and he was like,
[17:36] She knows her shit.
[17:37] She's really good.
[17:38] I feel really safe.
[17:38] I feel really comfortable with her.
[17:40] And look, it still took a while to get him entirely across the line.
[17:45] But essentially, I didn't get on the group midwife practice again in the same hospital because they deemed me high risk because of the mistake that was made with the catheter.
[17:55] I could not believe that blew my mind.
[17:57] And the fact that that made me not be low risk anymore and maybe not be able to get on the group midwife practice.
[18:03] I just felt like all signs were pointing to doing it at home.
[18:07] And I'd had a couple of girlfriends very recently had their first birth, which is not always the easiest.
[18:14] at home with Janine and had beautiful experiences.
[18:17] And so, yeah, all of that just made me go, let's do it.
[18:21] And it did take a while.
[18:22] Like it was step by step.
[18:23] And even as we got closer, I was still not 100% sure, but we felt confident that if we changed our mind last minute, last day, whatever, we would get in the car and we'd go to the hospital and it would be fine.
[18:35] But thankfully that never happened.
[18:44] wanted to do differently this time.
[18:46] So when you were talking to the doula and to your midwife, what was it that you said you wanted to do instead of what you did last time?
[18:54] Well, I said I definitely wanted a water birth.
[18:57] I was like, I want to have my baby in the water.
[18:59] That was the main thing I'd said to the doula.
[19:01] I want to labour at home as long as possible and I want to have a peaceful, hands-off labour.
[19:08] And that's when my doula said, you can have that labour in hospital.
[19:11] There are many women who do.
[19:13] But it's more likely that you will get that outcome at home.
[19:16] And she was like, you know, and the outcomes are really good.
[19:19] Like the evidence is there.
[19:20] It's all there.
[19:21] And I didn't believe her at first.
[19:23] I didn't know that.
[19:24] And then I listened to quite a few of your episodes on home birth.
[19:27] And actually the one that I listened to that really got me across the line was
[19:32] was the, I can't remember the title of it, but it was about all the things that can go wrong, all the emergencies and how you deal with them as midwives.
[19:39] Yes.
[19:39] We did an episode on, yeah, how midwives manage emergencies at home.
[19:44] That's right.
[19:44] Yeah.
[19:45] Yes.
[19:45] And that one was one of the episodes that got both my partner and I across the line.
[19:49] I
[19:51] Like, here's all of the things and this is how they will deal with it.
[19:54] And it made us both feel really comfortable because, I mean, it seemed like it was all the same things that they would do in the hospital.
[20:02] And it just, as a multi, it just didn't feel like those risks, a lot of the risks would apply to me anyway.
[20:09] And I felt, yeah, really reassured by that episode.
[20:12] And there was another episode too that got me across the line, which was amazing.
[20:16] about bigger babies and the size of babies.
[20:18] And because I, again, I did have a quite a big baby, but all I got told both pregnancies was how big my babies were and how, how I should be induced early and all of these things.
[20:28] So.
[20:28] And so how did, how did your pregnancy go this time?
[20:31] I assume the first was quite low risk considering you were still on the MGP program because
[20:37] Those MGP programs are quite ruthless with their inclusion criteria.
[20:43] And as you said, just because you had urinary retention after the last birth, because the catheter was removed, not by any fault of your own, that was enough to get you disqualified from the MGP program.
[20:55] Yeah.
[20:56] Yes, yeah.
[20:57] So all low risk.
[20:58] I have horrific pregnancies in the sense that I have HG, both health.
[21:03] So both pregnancies I was throwing up.
[21:05] First one I was throwing up to about 16 weeks every day, 100 times a day.
[21:09] The second one was until about 20 weeks.
[21:12] So it was way worse.
[21:13] And then I am a little bit older, so I feel like my body just physically cannot take pregnancy very well.
[21:20] And I used to be quite a small framed person.
[21:22] And I say used to be because pregnancy changed my body in such a wild way.
[21:26] And I carry a really big baby, like not really big, but bigger than you would probably expect to be.
[21:32] So it put a lot of strain on me.
[21:33] I had pelvic girdle pain and pubic symphysis and all the things that could happen.
[21:38] So physically, I had pretty horrid pregnancies, but yes, medically, low risk and all good in that sense.
[21:46] The only things that came up was
[21:49] Towards the end of the second pregnancy, Janine, my midwife, when she was doing the measuring.
[21:55] Yeah.
[21:55] Yeah.
[21:56] What's it called?
[21:56] The symphysis fundal height?
[21:59] Yes.
[22:00] So that went up by four centimeters in one week.
[22:02] And so she was like, huh.
[22:04] I hadn't done the gestational diabetes test and everything.
[22:08] So, and I was like 37 or 36 or seven weeks at that point.
[22:12] And we were like, oh, and I was always measuring a couple of weeks ahead in every scan, but this was a lot.
[22:16] And she was like, look, we just have to test just to make sure the fluid wasn't
[22:19] out of range because if it is, they don't want to risk a home birth a lot of the time.
[22:24] I did go.
[22:25] And the funniest thing was, is she called ahead and spoke to them and said, now, don't you mention the size of this baby to her?
[22:30] She doesn't need to hear it.
[22:32] She doesn't want to hear it.
[22:33] Cause every scan I went to, they'd be like, Oh wow.
[22:35] You're going to have to be induced.
[22:36] This baby's huge, blah, blah, blah.
[22:37] Like measuring in this centile and that centile.
[22:39] And you know, so anyway, that last one, I was like, I just don't want to hear it.
[22:42] And she
[22:44] Um, and I could just see the lady's face.
[22:46] She was just, it was killing her not to tell me how ginormous my baby was.
[22:51] And, but, um, that was the, that was the only kind of little thing that was in the back of my mind and that worried me a little bit was just the size and the fact that maybe I had more fluid than, than I should.
[23:03] But yeah, aside from that, it just, I was really lucky from a medical perspective that it was all very low risk and all went smoothly.
[23:10] Yeah.
[23:11] I mean, it's a point as well when you have a private midwife, when you're planning a home birth.
[23:17] The midwives are very thorough because we don't want you to have any complications either.
[23:22] We're all invested in you having a really uneventful birth at home without any drama.
[23:28] And so, yeah, I think that really makes a point about how thorough and invested private midwives are as well in making sure nothing is missed.
[23:36] Yeah.
[23:37] Yes.
[23:37] And that was something I didn't realize either.
[23:40] I think maybe in my naivety, I thought private midwives were pretty rogue and against the system and would kind of, you know, like take these big risks and swings, but it's quite the opposite.
[23:51] And that's what I had to tell family and friends who were concerned and everything.
[23:54] I was like, you know, this is this person's livelihood and their career and they can lose it really easily and quickly by taking huge risks.
[24:02] So I felt like she was very cautious and careful and
[24:06] At no point did I feel like she wouldn't make the call for me to go to hospital or anything if we needed to.
[24:12] So, yeah, I definitely felt safer in so many ways, actually.
[24:19] Well, we can give – private midwives can give a lot of attention.
[24:23] to our one single client when they're right in front of us.
[24:26] We have all this time.
[24:27] We're just fully invested in every single woman's experience.
[24:31] And not to say that other midwives aren't, but in a really different way because it's our business as well.
[24:38] And we develop these relationships and we know if something, if we miss something or if something doesn't go well, we've got a lot to answer for.
[24:47] So we're just as invested in a great outcome for the parents, but also for us.
[24:54] Yeah, definitely.
[24:55] And that's the thing you do.
[24:56] It's amazing to me because as you would and a lot of private midwives, you have so many people you're taking care of, but you feel like the only one.
[25:04] You genuinely do and you do develop this relationship and this bond and this love for your midwife and then you kind of forget like this is their job and they're doing this for a whole bunch, you know, a whole community really.
[25:15] Yeah, that's right.
[25:16] Okay, so talk us through the birth now because this is, you know, there's this beautiful image of you that you posted on Instagram to announce your birth and you just look like a woman who has achieved every goal she ever set out to achieve.
[25:33] Mm-hmm.
[25:34] And that's really what it feels like, I think.
[25:36] And that's exactly what that moment felt like for me.
[25:38] Yeah, I feel so incredibly proud and this birth is so different.
[25:44] I'll show anyone the video that will even ask me a question about the birth because I'm just like, oh my gosh, look what I did.
[25:50] Um, cause it still blows me away that it was even possible after the experience I had the first time.
[25:54] So this time my waters broke a little earlier, but same thing, my waters broke first.
[25:59] And that scared me because I was like, this is what happened last time.
[26:03] And then the contraction started straight away, which is what happened last time and very close together.
[26:07] And I just felt like it was all the same.
[26:10] And so that part of me started kind of feeling scared.
[26:13] But the other part of me was like excited for the contractions because it's,
[26:18] I didn't have fear around it in the way I did the first time.
[26:20] The first time contractions feel like they might break you.
[26:24] And you also feel like you might die because you don't know, you've never experienced it before, right?
[26:27] Whereas the second time you're like, oh, I can do this.
[26:30] It won't kill me.
[26:31] And it's one minute, maybe more, but then it goes.
[26:35] And it's just like that wave.
[26:36] And it's like this...
[26:37] weird sick challenge that you kind of get.
[26:40] I don't know.
[26:41] I see why people get addicted and obsessed with birth because I was just like, oh, bring on the next one rather than last time where I was like, oh no, not again.
[26:49] Here it comes again.
[26:49] You know, like I was resisting it so much the first time, whereas the second I felt really like empowered by it.
[26:56] And yeah, it was amazing.
[26:58] My
[27:00] wild the timing of everything because my son was still at home but my in-laws were coming to pick him up to so he could sleep over there because I just felt like he was a little bit too young to be home for the birth and I didn't want to be taken out of the experience and worrying about him so the timing worked out that they could come and get him after he had dinner and I
[27:18] He left, contractions started ramping up a little bit.
[27:21] You know, we'd called Janine, we'd called my doula, photographer friend who was coming.
[27:26] So everyone knew what was happening.
[27:28] Janine had said, you know, I want you to, I want you to let me know when they're, what was it?
[27:35] Two every five minutes, is that right?
[27:37] Or two every 10?
[27:38] I don't know.
[27:39] I guess everybody's different.
[27:40] But sometimes we suggest, you know, if they're regularly every five minutes, lasting longer than a minute each for more than an hour, then probably you are in labour that's not going to stop or slow down.
[27:54] Yes, yes.
[27:55] And I think she said for Maltips, she's even more conservative, but she lives really close.
[28:00] She lives five minutes away.
[28:01] So we weren't too stressed about that.
[28:04] So water's broke at 6.30 by around eight o'clock.
[28:07] the contractions were really starting to ramp up and get closer and closer together.
[28:11] I had the birth sling, which I absolutely love as a tool.
[28:16] Oh my goodness.
[28:17] And I'm so glad that Jess, who owns the birth sling, had sent me a lot of information on how to use it.
[28:23] And I'd been doing the daily moves classes with it for months beforehand.
[28:28] So I got straight into moving with that.
[28:30] TENS machine straight on.
[28:32] and did not jump into the shower or the pool.
[28:35] We started filling it up, but my instructions from Janine were like, don't jump into the pool until I tell you.
[28:40] So that was hard for me because I love being in the water and I really thought I would want to get into the pool, but I was quite scarred from my first experience.
[28:48] So that wasn't what I wanted to do.
[28:49] And I was kind of just going between sitting on the toilet and on all fours and in the birth sling.
[28:55] And then I got to a point where I was on all fours and I could not get out of on all fours.
[28:58] I just...
[29:00] When anyone tried to move me or anything, I was like, this is it and this is where I have to be.
[29:05] I remember I needed to have Andrew with me at all times too.
[29:08] If he walked down the hall, I was like, where is he?
[29:10] I need him touching me.
[29:12] I need his pressure.
[29:13] He's the most incredible birth partner.
[29:16] It's pretty amazing.
[29:18] I want to give a shout out to him because...
[29:21] For him doing what he does, the training, the study and everything that he's done.
[29:26] And at the time he was working at the Royal Women's.
[29:28] So he was really immersed in seizures, epidurals, all of that, and seeing all the high risk things that were happening.
[29:36] And he had a lot of fear and it was really hard for him to separate his medical brain and being like my partner and what I needed.
[29:43] And he just did the most amazing job at just being my anchor and being so calm and just handling it all with such ease and making me feel so, so confident.
[29:54] And he would just say these things in my ear about like, you know, things like, you're so amazing, you're so strong, you can do this.
[30:01] you've you've only any count me down you've only got 30 seconds left you've only got 10 seconds left and then he was wrong a couple of the times because i had some contractions that went on for like seven minutes and he'd be like you got five more seconds i'm like no and he's like wait is it still going and i'm like if i'm making this sound it's still going but but he was just the most amazing birth partner and it was all stuff that we'd learned the first time and he knew would work but this time was different i at the first time i liked a lot of head massage and a lot of
[30:28] This time I just wanted that, that, um, counter pressure on my hips was kind of the only thing that really helped.
[30:34] And he was doing a lot of that.
[30:36] And I think it was around Janine says, I think it was around 10 o'clock that she came in and I remember her walking in, I was on all fours.
[30:44] And she just sat in front of me with this big smile on her face and she was like, this is so exciting.
[30:49] And I was like, is it?
[30:51] Really?
[30:52] And I just remember her being like, this is so great.
[30:55] Oh my goodness.
[30:55] And then she just sat there and the room was lit with candles and we'd blown up the bath and it just felt so zen.
[31:02] It was so quiet.
[31:03] We had some beautiful, calm music playing.
[31:05] It was raining outside.
[31:07] And, you know, I just remember her sitting kind of a couple of meters away from me just
[31:11] you know, scribbling notes down and looking at me every once in a while.
[31:15] The Doppler went on maybe once or twice, but I don't remember really being touched or even anyone really being in my space other than Andrew.
[31:22] And then shortly after that, I think she'd only been there for about 45 minutes to an hour.
[31:28] And she said when she came, she knew I was in established labor.
[31:30] Like it was, it was on, I was on all fours.
[31:32] She said I was doing all the things, making all the sounds.
[31:35] Um, and she knew, and then she turned to me and she said, I think it's time to get in the bath.
[31:39] And I just, that's when the only moment I had a bit of panic and fear.
[31:43] And I just said, are you sure it's not too early?
[31:45] Because this kind of feels too easy.
[31:47] Like not that it felt easy, but compared to my first, it did.
[31:50] And I was like, are you sure?
[31:52] Because last time I got in the bath at Stored and she was, she just said it so simply.
[31:55] She was like, you know what?
[31:56] You could get in and it may ease off and things might slow down a little bit, but I think you're just going to get in the bath and have a baby, love.
[32:03] And the way she said that so simply, like, you're just going to get in the bath and have a baby.
[32:06] I was like, let's do this.
[32:08] And I got in and I remember being like, oh, my gosh, the release and the relief and just the feeling of the warm water.
[32:17] And I thought in my head that I had about five minutes of bliss of just going, wow, this is amazing.
[32:22] She said it was about 30 seconds and then I was...
[32:25] it was on.
[32:26] Like it was like contractions every minute and really intense.
[32:30] But in my head, I remember just being like, oh, this is heaven.
[32:32] I'm in my bath.
[32:33] I'm going to enjoy myself.
[32:35] And then, yeah, then it was I think from the time I got in the bath
[32:40] It was around 40, 45 minutes until she was born.
[32:45] And I had no instructions.
[32:48] I had no one touching me other than the counterpressure and Janine putting like a cold compress on my head, which also felt amazing, by the way.
[32:54] And my doula squeezing my hand during contractions, but I remember basically just
[33:02] Janine got the mirror underneath and was like, okay.
[33:06] I think she said like, you can see the head or I can, you know, you can touch the head, but there was no instruction to push.
[33:11] And the first time I had such heavy, intense instruction to push and I couldn't feel any of it because of the epidural.
[33:17] Whereas this, I just remember feeling like my whole pelvis opened up and I felt the baby drop down.
[33:22] And I was like, whoa, this is insane.
[33:26] Like this is,
[33:27] It did feel like my body was going to break open.
[33:29] Like my whole body was shaking and I was shuddering and I was just like, but weirdly I'd seen all these videos on home birth and most women I had seen them say like, I can't do this.
[33:41] I can't do it anymore.
[33:41] And I went through that a million times.
[33:44] in my first labor, but not once did I say a lot of the things I was thinking because I didn't want them to be true.
[33:51] I, I like, I remember thinking maybe I'd pooed in the pool because I had that really intense feeling in my bum.
[33:59] And I thought, oh my gosh, I put everyone in the pool.
[34:01] But then I thought, who cares if I did like, who cares?
[34:04] I don't, that's not important.
[34:06] Let it go.
[34:06] It was like my meditation practice came into play.
[34:08] Cause I just felt like these thoughts would come in
[34:11] And I'd let them go.
[34:12] But there was a moment where it felt like my pelvis was going to break open.
[34:15] And Janine was like, the head's right there.
[34:17] Do you want to touch?
[34:18] And I remember touching and going, oh, my goodness, it is.
[34:20] This is wild.
[34:21] And nobody has told me to push.
[34:22] And all I remember thinking was just focusing on my breath and just keep focusing on baby moving down, my body's opening up.
[34:31] And the only thing that kind of felt a little bit difficult was breathing.
[34:35] And Janine said that Sheik Saleh came out with one hand up by her head.
[34:41] So Janine had to pull really quickly, do a couple of maneuvers where she kind of pulled the arm out and then twisted her to pull her shoulder out.
[34:47] It wasn't a shoulder dystocia, but just had to like wriggle her out.
[34:50] And that was like a little bit hard.
[34:52] And I remember saying to Janine, is she out?
[34:53] And she was like, oh, not quite.
[34:54] And then it was just like, and she just pulled her out really quickly.
[34:57] Yeah.
[34:58] And then I was able to put her on my chest.
[34:59] And I just, honestly, the first thing I thought was that can't be it.
[35:02] Like that, that, it can't have been that easy.
[35:04] And again, not easy, but in the grand scheme of things, in the comparison to my first experience, it was so fast from start to finish from her being, you know, my labor beginning to her being out was five hours.
[35:18] The first experience was over 24 hours.
[35:21] Yes.
[35:22] And part of that is owing that it's your second baby.
[35:24] Yeah.
[35:25] But to comment on the ease element that you spoke about, it actually does feel a lot less complicated and more easy at home.
[35:35] Not that it's easier in a sense of less pain.
[35:40] But easier in a sense of less chaos, less chatter, less, it's just not as busy.
[35:48] It's a little bit of a non-event.
[35:50] You kind of go, yep, your baby's coming.
[35:53] And then the baby comes out.
[35:55] And then there's no drama and chaos.
[35:57] And it's just you had your baby.
[36:00] Even in an emergency, actually, it feels that way at home.
[36:04] As a private midwife, I've had clients who didn't even realize there was an emergency happening because of how calm the room was kept.
[36:12] So I feel like that's what people mean when they say it was fairly easy and straightforward.
[36:17] It just was the baby came and, yeah, I still gave birth.
[36:23] And I've heard husbands talk about it as being, oh, that was easy, right?
[36:28] And they feel bad for saying that.
[36:30] The husband doesn't say that.
[36:32] But they feel bad for saying it because, like, that was easy.
[36:34] I'm like, what you're saying?
[36:35] I get what you're saying.
[36:37] It feels chaotic and out of control as at a hospital.
[36:42] So baby comes out, you're in the pool, straight on your test, which is usually what we do, and then what happens?
[36:50] Then –
[36:51] oh it was so beautiful soleil like pushed up against me and she just looked with these she's got these huge white eyes and she just looked between andrew and i and andrew and i and she just went back and forth and she didn't make a sound which both of us initially were a little bit scared we were like oh gosh she's not saying anything but she's looking at us both and janine was like just keep kissing her and touching her and everything and sure enough a
[37:13] It was a couple of minutes, I think, and then she screamed and she's not stopped screaming since, but she was just so alert and so calm and it was wild.
[37:24] And I guess that was that experience for her of coming out into the water and in this beautiful environment.
[37:29] And then the other crazy thing to me was that after a few minutes of that and everything, which I might've gone for longer than that, Janine was like, okay, we're going to walk over to the couch because...
[37:39] I wasn't going to birth the placenta in the pool because on all my scans, it had shown that I had a bilobal placenta and Janine just wanted to make sure that we were going to get it all out.
[37:48] And I was fine with that.
[37:49] So a bilobed placenta is where instead of being in one single piece, the placenta being in one single piece, the placenta forms in two pieces, almost like two small half-sized placentas alongside each other.
[38:05] But they're usually separated by some membranes.
[38:08] And one of the concerns is potentially there's blood vessels that are crossing in between those two placentas or that one lobe of the placenta comes off and the other one has trouble detaching.
[38:20] And that's why they were keen to manage the placental birth efficiently.
[38:25] That was crazy, the fact that she was just like, oh, and just step out of the pool and onto the couch.
[38:29] And I did.
[38:30] And I got up holding my baby.
[38:32] I mean, and I just walked.
[38:33] Like it wasn't a big deal to walk a few meters to my couch, whereas, you know, even days after my first labor, I could barely move.
[38:40] And I just felt fine.
[38:42] I felt completely fine.
[38:43] And so we walked over to the couch.
[38:45] The thing I will say is a cruel joke, and you might disagree with me here, but having to birth the placenta
[38:52] after you have just done a marathon labor, it's just like, that's just God's cruel way.
[39:00] I tell clients, I think it's rude that we have to birth a placenta.
[39:05] It's because you're not finished yet.
[39:06] You've had the baby.
[39:07] And what will happen to most women is they'll be given an injection and the placenta will be pulled out after they had their baby.
[39:14] So they don't have to do any extra work.
[39:17] But if you're not going to go down that direction, that's what we, and at home women birth their own placentas, just like they birth their own babies most of the time.
[39:25] But I do think it's very rude that we have to,
[39:29] almost interrupt that moment by having to concentrate on a placenta.
[39:34] I'm absolutely with you on that.
[39:37] So rude.
[39:38] And it's also not as easy as birthing the baby in my experience, because the placenta is just a passenger.
[39:43] Like it's not helping you.
[39:45] I had a really hard time and I also just wanted to sit there with my baby on my tummy.
[39:49] And we tried to,
[39:51] We tried for so long and then I got onto all fours and I had her laying underneath me and I tried and tried and I felt like I was pushing, I was breathing, I was doing all the things and it was, my placenta had dropped right down.
[40:01] It was sitting right at my cervix, but it just wouldn't come out.
[40:04] And it had been a really long time.
[40:05] And because of the concern around the bilob and all of that stuff, Janine ended up just giving me a quick shot after.
[40:10] I tried for ages.
[40:11] It wasn't like that we hadn't tried.
[40:13] And then it literally just came out so easily.
[40:15] Turned out it wasn't bilobal at all.
[40:17] It was just like heart shaped.
[40:18] Yeah.
[40:19] I know.
[40:20] So all this stress, that was another stress through my entire pregnancy, which again,
[40:24] Sometimes too much information is just not helpful.
[40:28] I kept thinking that was going to, I was going to have a retained placenta and that was another cause for concern with a home birth.
[40:34] Completely fine.
[40:36] And then, yeah, so that came out and then we, oh, it was so amazing to think about this moment.
[40:41] We, both midwives, my doula photographer, Andrew and I all sat around on our couches eating zucchini slice that my mother-in-law had made.
[40:50] that my doula had put in the oven and drinking tea and cheersing tea.
[40:54] And this is at like one o'clock in the morning or something.
[40:57] And I've just never felt more energy in my life, like just buzzing and having this beautiful group of women around that were just, oh, so delicious.
[41:05] And Brie, who is a photographer who we absolutely adore, who was there for it, she turned to me and she was like, you know what you've just done for your daughter?
[41:13] You've, you've changed
[41:15] her narrative around birth because mine was always fear because I, my mother had an emergency Caesar with me.
[41:21] And that was the story I heard my whole life was that my mom and myself almost died in, in labor.
[41:27] And I think that plays into your own story a lot.
[41:30] And that played into my first birth.
[41:31] I was terrified of that happening and,
[41:34] of the emergency C's are happening.
[41:36] And so just to be able to, when she said that, you'll show her this video of her coming into the world in your home in this beautiful, calm way and you've just changed the story for her.
[41:45] and made her feel so differently about birth.
[41:48] And that just really hit hard for me.
[41:51] And then, yeah, then Janine said, I'm going to tuck you up into bed.
[41:54] And they'd cleaned everything.
[41:56] That was the other thing you think about a lot too is the mess of like, what's your living room going to look like?
[42:01] Is it going to look like a scene from Dexter?
[42:02] You know, like there's plastic everywhere, there's blood, there's placenta, there's...
[42:06] feces, you know, and you just think, oh my gosh, is your house going to be trashed?
[42:09] No, my house has never been cleaner because you've got this incredible group of women who are fairies and they just magically get rid of everything while you're in your bliss zone and tuck you up into bed and you're not in a hospital.
[42:21] And here's the other thing.
[42:22] I just hate hospitals.
[42:24] I don't like how they make me feel.
[42:25] And we had to stay in the hospital for a couple of nights, my first experience.
[42:29] So this time being able to, oh, walk to my shower and have a shower.
[42:33] Janine sat there and watched me just to make sure I was okay, but I didn't need any assistance.
[42:38] And Andrew got to have some beautiful skin to skin with Soleil while I was having a shower.
[42:42] And then, yeah, we both got into bed and we brought more tea.
[42:45] Janine came in and we, I still had the,
[42:48] placenta attached to baby.
[42:50] So then I think it had been over in almost two hours at that point.
[42:54] So then Andrew cut the cord and they weighed her.
[42:58] That was also a pretty wild experience because Janita had been like, everyone take a guess.
[43:02] And I was like, oh.
[43:03] I reckon 3.8 kilos or something, you know.
[43:06] Janine was like 4.2.
[43:07] And I was like, absolutely not.
[43:08] There's no way.
[43:09] Anyway, she was 4.25, almost 4.3 kilos.
[43:12] And that was like, whoa, because, you know, she said, you just breathed out a 4.25 kilo baby.
[43:19] Like all that stress, everything that you'd heard.
[43:23] And, you know, you didn't, and I didn't, and she checked me over.
[43:25] I didn't even have a graze, like not even, no tearing, nothing.
[43:29] And that was different.
[43:30] My first experience, I had quite a lot of grazing and a tiny, small tear, but even that tiny, small tear made going to the bathroom feel excruciating.
[43:37] Whereas this time I went and peed, no pain, no discomfort.
[43:40] It was absolutely fine.
[43:42] So like just wild, that just goes to show that the size of the baby doesn't matter all the time.
[43:48] And then, yeah, we just, they all left us.
[43:51] They, you know, she did all her checks on baby and then it was like two or 3am and they were all like, good night, have a great night.
[43:56] We'll see you in the morning.
[43:57] And everyone left and Andrew and I were like, we could go to sleep right now.
[44:00] We should be sleeping, but we just sat up just like buzzing and just reliving the whole experience.
[44:04] And we both felt like we were on the biggest high of our lives.
[44:07] And it took weeks to come down from that, by the way, we just couldn't believe it.
[44:10] And the coolest thing I think for me too, was just the way Andrew looked at me and was like, you are a superhero.
[44:17] He was literally like that was unbelievable.
[44:19] It blew his mind.
[44:20] And I think for him experiencing what he's experienced in the hospital to then experience that and be able to take that as his new thought process or his new experience around birth and how he could see birth, I think was really special for him as well.
[44:37] And that dramatic difference between your immediate postnatal experience after your first baby –
[44:45] It's so, it's owing, I just feel like it's a testament to the power of birth that you can't quite explain to somebody until they do it.
[44:55] And oxytocin, which is what governs this whole labor process, but then also at the end where you get this adrenaline that enables you to push your baby out and then parent your baby afterwards, and then afterwards you've got all this energy and bliss because you're flooded with adrenaline and oxytocin, and everyone in the room is feeling it because it's transmitted.
[45:16] They now know that oxytocin is transmitted a little bit like a pheromone, so it's quite catching.
[45:23] And the joy afterwards is part of the addiction where you think, oh my gosh, when do we get to do this again?
[45:33] Because you're all completely just living in this drugged up bliss bubble, a natural high that adds so much to the...
[45:42] birth process and then afterwards how blissful it feels and how amazing it feels that you miss out on when you don't fully feel labour and when it's a frightening experience or if your partner has to go home afterwards and maybe you're doing all that on your own.
[45:59] It's just a stark dramatic difference.
[46:02] And in both scenarios, you would be described as, you know, a low risk, uncomplicated, you
[46:10] woman having a you know having a pregnancy and having a baby but two very dramatic different births definitely and that's what I said when when this was all said and done after after the birth I said I wish everyone could experience birth this way I would give anything for everyone to just know what that feels like and it's not unfortunately you know
[46:34] the case for everybody.
[46:36] And I understand why some people can't have that experience or wouldn't want to.
[46:40] And I get that it's not for everyone.
[46:43] I do, but it definitely wasn't for me before.
[46:47] And having this experience completely changed my mind.
[46:51] And I hate being pregnant, but my goodness, if I could have birth like that, I would give birth
[46:56] every day of the week.
[46:57] I would do it again and again and again because of what you said, the oxytocin and the high and everybody's high.
[47:02] And I can see now why you guys do what you do because I see why Janine's so bloody busy because she gets that every single time.
[47:09] Yes.
[47:11] Crazy.
[47:11] I was like, sign me up except for all the no sleep that you guys get and like, you know, being on the wall all the time.
[47:18] There was a time when my husband was like, how long are you going to keep doing this private midwife thing?
[47:23] Like he's always been supportive, but he's like,
[47:27] And I said, you know, it's been 16 years, nearly 17 years, and I still cry at every single birth.
[47:34] And he goes, oh, well, you can't stop then.
[47:36] If you feel that way about your job, I was like, there's no way.
[47:39] I mean, there's just no way you could stop after witnessing that incredible power.
[47:46] It's not always as beautiful as, you know, it doesn't always go to plan.
[47:51] Yes.
[47:52] But it's always meaningful.
[47:53] It's always powerful.
[47:55] Mm.
[47:56] And just so important for women to have that full birth experience.
[48:03] I'm curious to know, and I don't know if you're having another baby, but if you were, would you do anything differently?
[48:11] No, I would want it to be exactly the same.
[48:14] I feel so fulfilled from that experience.
[48:19] I feel like healed completely from my first experience.
[48:23] I feel so empowered.
[48:25] There is not one thing that I would change.
[48:27] Not one thing.
[48:28] I mean, I think if
[48:30] To be honest, I really don't want to have any more babies.
[48:32] I mean, I do.
[48:33] I do want to have more babies, but I feel very complete and happy with two healthy babies.
[48:38] And, you know, I'm not getting any younger.
[48:40] And it's just honestly the real reason is that pregnancy is just not my friend.
[48:44] And it's so hard for me.
[48:45] So...
[48:47] That's my main reason.
[48:48] But if I was to, I guess the only difference would be that my son would maybe be a bit older and he could be home to experience it because I do think that it would be really beautiful also for, you know, young boys and men to, to grow up with that.
[49:02] you know, that impression of birth and to see a woman in all her power in that way as well.
[49:07] Cause I think that's what was so cool for my partner to experience.
[49:11] But I think, you know, how incredible for these young boys, I have a woman in my mother's group who's got four sons and at her last birth, she had three of her sons all at the birth.
[49:20] And I just thought like, wow, what you're doing for them is, and you know, for society moving forward is incredible.
[49:27] But yeah, no, I wouldn't do, I wouldn't do anything differently.
[49:30] And I would hope to have the same experience, but that's the thing.
[49:32] You just, I don't know if you can really, right?
[49:35] I don't know.
[49:36] Well, you can do everything to prepare for that.
[49:38] So you could do similar things that are within your control, planning the home birth, choosing your midwife, having a doula, you know, supportive team and Andrew being there and as supportive as he was.
[49:50] And, you know, setting up the pool and doing all those things, but you can't always control, okay, what position the baby's going to come down in or, you know, there's things that are out of our control.
[49:59] But there are so many things that are within women's control to impact how their birth will go.
[50:04] If you had to, if you were talking directly to a woman who was saying to you, oh my gosh, I want to have what you had.
[50:15] What suggestions would you make for strategies that they could do or choices they could make that would help make their next birth better?
[50:25] I would say, I mean, I think it would depend on if it was their first or second in a lot of ways.
[50:31] If it was their first, I would 100% be like have a doula.
[50:34] I wish that I had a doula the first time.
[50:36] I think that's the biggest mistake I made was thinking because I had Andrew who was so prepared and so involved in everything that I wouldn't need one.
[50:44] But what I realized is that I would have really needed one to help him as well as me and to give him a little bit of a break.
[50:50] And also...
[50:52] it's so hard to advocate for yourself the first time around, I think, and for your partner to advocate when you really don't know what to expect and you don't know how far your body can go and your own limits and everything.
[51:03] Whereas someone who's been in that space a million times, they have a better understanding and I think they can help.
[51:08] So I would say a really good doula.
[51:10] And I interviewed about four doulas, by the way.
[51:13] I was like ruthless in the sense that I just knew
[51:18] I wanted to feel so comfortable.
[51:20] I was like, I don't want to be worrying about anybody else in this space.
[51:22] I don't even want to be conscious of anyone in my space.
[51:25] So I went through that.
[51:27] And when I found my doula, I just was like, oh, I want to be best friends with her.
[51:29] She's divine.
[51:30] So I would say that a good course, I think we did a hypnobirthing course the first time around.
[51:36] And again, more so for the partner than for you, because I think giving them tools and
[51:41] and an understanding of the right verbiage and how to touch you and all of those things and giving them a role because I think a lot of the time they can feel quite helpless and they don't know what to do.
[51:52] So that I would say is really important.
[51:54] Obviously, the private midwife, and again, you can interview as many as you want.
[51:58] You can meet as many as you want.
[51:59] I was lucky that the first person I met had come so highly recommended and she's just a legend and she was amazing.
[52:05] But I think it's just so about that gut feeling as women that we ignore so much and
[52:10] I felt it when I went to the hospital for the second time around and I found out I wasn't on the MGP program and that I wasn't going to have that continuity of care.
[52:18] And I felt it when I stepped into the hospital that I was just like, I don't want to birth here.
[52:22] And I'm not saying that everybody feels that way because I have a lot of friends who feel a lot more safe and comfortable in a hospital.
[52:28] It's just my...
[52:30] experience and how I feel.
[52:32] And so I think it's just listening to your gut of what feels good and where you feel, wherever you feel safest is where you should birth.
[52:39] And if you want that experience of a home birth, knowing that there is so much research and there's podcasts like your podcast that you can listen to and understand what the risks are, understand what the strategies are for those risks and just weighing up what feels right for you, I think is the most important thing.
[52:56] But the other thing I will say, and it's something that I had to be really, really conscious
[53:00] is blocking out the noise.
[53:02] And the best advice I got was stop telling people that you're having a home birth because every time I did, and I mean, every time I did, I would be hit with a barrage of you're an idiot.
[53:12] You're so crazy.
[53:13] You're putting your baby at risk and all the things that could have gone wrong.
[53:16] And this happened to my friend and Joe blow this and all these comments.
[53:19] And they came at me left, right and center.
[53:20] And I just, cause I have a real problem with not being able to, I'm very open.
[53:25] If anyone asks me a question, I tell them everything.
[53:27] And
[53:28] It was something that I had to kind of close off and just be like, oh, you know, and it's funny because people ask, oh, what hospital are you going to?
[53:34] Such a weird question to ask people, but they do.
[53:37] And like, I don't know.
[53:39] Anyway, I just felt like I had to stop.
[53:41] Oh, I might be going to this hospital, but we might, I don't know.
[53:43] I'm just going to see how I feel.
[53:45] And then people would feel like that was a really weird, vague answer and they don't want to ask anymore.
[53:48] So it's just kind of stopped.
[53:50] But yeah, I think, I think just like kind of
[53:53] I think Janine might have said it, just protect your little bubble and just keep yourself in your little bubble.
[53:57] And if you have any questions, come to me and go to Andrew and stuff.
[54:01] But just, you know, don't talk to people about it that are going to give you that energy and just, you know, protect your space.
[54:08] Well, it's kind of like how you had to take Andrew on the journey of acceptance to kind of convince him that home birth was a good idea.
[54:18] It's hard to drop that on
[54:20] who's not on the journey at all and has just the usual social expectation that everyone's going to go to hospital.
[54:28] So then, yeah, you get all of their baggage dumped on you in that moment without a thought.
[54:34] People don't really think, I wonder how this is going to be received.
[54:39] They just want to tell you what they think.
[54:41] It's unfortunate.
[54:43] So I think you're on the money.
[54:45] You've got to be careful with who you tell because not everybody has been on that discovery journey and been able to convince themselves that this is okay and an okay thing to do.
[54:56] You have to work through that.
[54:57] Yeah.
[54:58] And just do your own research too.
[55:00] I think it's so easy to,
[55:01] because of the internet and social media and everything, we think everybody's an expert.
[55:06] But, like, listen to the actual experts and look at the outcomes.
[55:08] I mean, Andrew was pretty amazing in the sense when we had our last meeting at the hospital, he said to the midwives, he said, look, we're thinking of meeting with a private midwife and we're thinking of doing a home birth.
[55:19] Like, what do you guys think of that?
[55:20] Because he always wants to ask people, like, in the hospital.
[55:22] And they both were like, do it.
[55:24] They were like, do it.
[55:25] Do a home birth.
[55:26] They were like, they have the best outcomes.
[55:28] And he was like, okay, that's all I needed to hear, you know?
[55:31] Yeah.
[55:32] Oh, so amazing.
[55:34] Thank you so much for telling your story because I just think it highlights so many important elements for what's happening in the birth world.
[55:45] Amazing.
[55:46] I feel like you just told that so well.
[55:48] I don't have any more questions to ask.
[55:52] It's so hard to remember because you're like, I mean, it's not hard to remember, but this one was so quick that I'm like, well, then this, and I didn't think it would be that quick because they say the second is quicker.
[56:02] But I thought my sister had like her first was like 36 hours, second was like 24 and then her third was like nine hours.
[56:08] So I was thinking, oh, okay, maybe my second will be like 12 or 13 hours, but still like five hours.
[56:13] And in birth time, five hours is like five minutes.
[56:16] I remember just thinking that it's just like, if you just leave a woman and you just leave them to do what they're intended to do, it can be so beautiful.
[56:23] And that's exactly how I felt.
[56:24] I felt like everybody just kept this beautiful space except for Andrew, who I really needed as my...
[56:29] birth partner and it just happened.
[56:32] I just had a baby, as Janine said I would.
[56:36] It wasn't that complicated.
[56:38] No, and this is it.
[56:39] I think that's the truth.
[56:41] It's not that complicated.
[56:42] Sometimes it is.
[56:43] There'll be some women listening going, oh, that's great.
[56:46] You know, you had an uncomplicated birth.
[56:48] Sometimes it is, and we're not denying that, but the vast majority of women can have these relatively uncomplicated, uneventful births.
[56:56] And I think you highlighted that today as well.
[56:59] Thank you so much for telling your story.
[57:02] Thanks, Mel.
[57:04] Thanks for having me.
[57:05] Oh, it's a pleasure.
[57:06] And I'm just so glad.
[57:08] that the Great Birth Rebellion resource is, you know, being used in such a beautiful way.
[57:13] Oh, my goodness.
[57:14] It is for, I mean, so many people, what you guys are doing.
[57:17] It's ground – it's honestly, it's groundbreaking, but it's also just so informative and so entertaining and you make it so, like, digestible and easy to understand.
[57:28] I just – yeah, I think I wouldn't have done what I did, I think, without having that as a resource, so –
[57:34] Yeah, super grateful.
[57:36] To get access to the resources for each podcast episode, join the mailing list at melaniethemidwife.com.
[57:43] And to support the work of this podcast, wear The Rebellion in the form of clothing and other merch at thegreatbirthrebellion.com.
[57:51] Follow me, Mel, at Melanie the Midwife on socials and the show at The Great Birth Rebellion.
[57:58] All the details are in the show notes.

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