# BNP A Ticking Time Bomb: Will India Need To Extradite Sheikh Hasina? | Geeta's World, Ep 103

An episode of [Geeta's World](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1635741757), 3 Sep 2024, 42 min.

Audio: https://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/api.spreaker.com/download/episode/61251984/03_sep_24_geetas_world_3_sept_128.mp3

Since Sheikh Hasina’s ouster and her taking refuge in India, anti-India sentiment has been peaking in Bangladesh. Recently BNP leader Mirza Fakhrul Islam Alamgir demanded Hasina’s extradition, warning that her continued presence in India could severely damage Indo-Bangla relations. With Mohammed Yunus as interim leader and a BNP government likely on the horizon, the call for Hasina’s return is intensifying. So, will India bow to this demand or hold its ground? And can Bangladesh, under BNP leadership, if elected to power, afford a strained relationship with its neighbour? Will historical ties hold firm, or will this be a new crisis for India-Bangladesh relations? In this episode of Geeta's World, our host, Anna Priyadarshini, and the foreign affairs editor at India Today, TV Today Network, Geeta Mohan, discuss! Listen in! Produced by Anna Priyadarshini Sound Mix by Sachin Dwivedi

## Transcript

[0:00] Speaker 1: This is India Today podcasts.
[0:05] Speaker 2: Since Shai Hasina's ouster and her taking refuge in India,
[0:09] Speaker 2: anti India sentiment has been peaking in Bangladesh. Recently, BNP
[0:14] Speaker 2: leader Mirza Fakhrul Islam Alamgir demanded Hasina's extradition, warning that
[0:19] Speaker 2: her continued presence in India could severely damage Indo banglad relations.
[0:24] Speaker 2: So will India bow to this demand or hold its ground?
[0:28] Speaker 1: It's a ticking bomb. The request has to come from
[0:31] Speaker 1: the interim government. Political parties can make demands, Professor Unis,
[0:35] Speaker 1: I don't think we'll be doing that right now. These
[0:37] Speaker 1: are not the feathers he wants to ruffle.
[0:40] Speaker 2: And can Bangladesh under BNP leadership, if elected to power,
[0:44] Speaker 2: afford a strange relationship with its neighbor. Will historical ties
[0:48] Speaker 2: hold firm or will this be a new crisis for
[0:52] Speaker 2: India Bangladesh relations.
[0:54] Speaker 1: With a BNP in power, the relationship will be very difficult.
[1:00] Speaker 1: It might not be one of animosity that the two
[1:04] Speaker 1: countries would share, but it will certainly be difficult. There
[1:08] Speaker 1: are going to be a series of things that you
[1:10] Speaker 1: will see where India will have to fight for every
[1:14] Speaker 1: inch of space it gets in Bangladesh.
[1:18] Speaker 2: Hello, I'm Anna Pradashani with India Today TV's Foreign Affairs
[1:22] Speaker 2: editor Geita Mohan. Where with Geita's astute and incisive crasp
[1:27] Speaker 2: of world affairs, we delve into all that is urgent
[1:30] Speaker 2: and pressing in world politics and comprehend how these developments
[1:34] Speaker 2: in other countries could shape India's global ambitions of being
[1:39] Speaker 2: a wish for Guru, Let's unravel Geita's world.
[1:44] Speaker 1: Hello and welcome.
[1:45] Speaker 2: This is the one hundred and third episode of Keitah's World.
[1:49] Speaker 2: And lest I complain, Geita has already thrown me a party. Yes,
[1:54] Speaker 2: one hundred episodes.
[1:56] Speaker 1: And I'm so thrown the team a party. There is
[1:58] Speaker 1: a love parday. Yeah, please log onto our podcast on
[2:03] Speaker 1: Star account to see how I appreciated Anna's work and
[2:10] Speaker 1: how nicely she makes us all work and put insurance
[2:15] Speaker 1: that we put out a very good, well researched podcast.
[2:20] Speaker 1: This He'll go to our podcast handle and watch that
[2:24] Speaker 1: little snippet of our celebrations.
[2:28] Speaker 2: Yes, I mean, Gita is always like you know all
[2:31] Speaker 2: actually praises me so much. I'm like so humbled, i
[2:35] Speaker 2: can't say anything. I'm like speechless.
[2:39] Speaker 1: People are thinking, are they being real or sarcastic. That
[2:43] Speaker 1: is also one thing. Yeah, a lot of heart and
[2:47] Speaker 1: from Keitas.
[2:49] Speaker 2: I mean I should appreciate her too, so the research
[2:52] Speaker 2: and then I yeah, like I compel her to you know,
[2:55] Speaker 2: set throughout and just because it's fifty minutes. Yeah, it's
[3:00] Speaker 2: insightful to listen to you genuinely, generally, it's very insightful.
[3:07] Speaker 2: And on a very serious note, if you want to
[3:10] Speaker 2: believe me that all my knowledge regarding this world has
[3:14] Speaker 2: been because of oh my god.
[3:16] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[3:16] Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, So today also I'm going to pick
[3:21] Speaker 2: your brain regarding Bangladesh Global.
[3:24] Speaker 1: Oh guys, yeah, for more coverage.
[3:29] Speaker 2: I mean, fabulous reporting, Fabulous shows have come up on
[3:34] Speaker 2: in It today Global, so please do watch out. And
[3:37] Speaker 2: they have a you have a YouTube central YouTube channel. Yes,
[3:42] Speaker 2: recently we're going to go very big on US elections
[3:45] Speaker 2: apart from the fact that we'll be will be discussing
[3:48] Speaker 2: a lot of it here as well closer to US elections.
[3:51] Speaker 2: But if you want a daily coverage, please log on
[3:54] Speaker 2: sure and so, like I was saying in this time,
[3:57] Speaker 2: also we are discussing Bangladesh because two episodes that have
[4:01] Speaker 2: done on Bangladesh and it was the hot topic back then,
[4:04] Speaker 2: but it is still a hot topic also because it's
[4:07] Speaker 2: neighborhood Ana.
[4:08] Speaker 1: Yeah, very important and it impacts us directly.
[4:11] Speaker 2: Right and now, I mean not at that point, but
[4:14] Speaker 2: now certainly India has become you know, the focus, the
[4:18] Speaker 2: center of focus because what is happening and the kind
[4:21] Speaker 2: of news that is coming in from the BNP, the
[4:24] Speaker 2: Bangladeshi you know, the Bangladesh Nationalist Party over there, with
[4:29] Speaker 2: the Awami League sort of being sidelined right now because
[4:33] Speaker 2: Shaiksina is here taking refuge in India. So there are
[4:36] Speaker 2: a lot of statements coming in from the b and
[4:38] Speaker 2: P officials. So we're going to explore that.
[4:43] Speaker 1: Right now.
[4:43] Speaker 2: I mean, and in terrem government has taken charge. Momat
[4:46] Speaker 2: you knows is there at the helm trying to stabilize
[4:50] Speaker 2: the situation. But you know, I mean we have discussed
[4:53] Speaker 2: also and right now also the situation doesn't seem normal,
[4:57] Speaker 2: I mean, far from normal in my But elections are
[5:01] Speaker 2: on the horizon, Gata, I mean, it's not yet clear
[5:05] Speaker 2: when the elections will be taking place, but definitely on
[5:09] Speaker 2: the cards, right.
[5:10] Speaker 1: On the cards. But the interim government will decide and
[5:14] Speaker 1: there are no rules as to when or time frame
[5:18] Speaker 1: as to when elections have to be held. What they
[5:21] Speaker 1: actually what the criteria actually is to have the loan
[5:25] Speaker 1: order situation in order to have a system in place
[5:29] Speaker 1: so that free and fair election can be held. And
[5:33] Speaker 1: once all these various factors are taken care of, then
[5:38] Speaker 1: elections can be held. But for this government right now,
[5:41] Speaker 1: because the country went into chaos, it is also about
[5:45] Speaker 1: stabilizing the economy, because what will you do if you've
[5:48] Speaker 1: not stabilized the economy, So they are looking at stabilizing
[5:53] Speaker 1: the economy the situation a little and then going into elections.
[5:57] Speaker 1: Although I do think that the BNP would not want
[6:00] Speaker 1: to wait a long time because this is they're high
[6:04] Speaker 1: right now. They're on a high and that could translate
[6:08] Speaker 1: into a massive electoral wind rather than a split electoral verdict,
[6:14] Speaker 1: and is the reason why you're seeing now the BNP
[6:17] Speaker 1: seeking and asking for fast paced transition rather than one
[6:24] Speaker 1: where the interium government is saying they want to take
[6:27] Speaker 1: some more time.
[6:28] Speaker 2: Another major demance.
[6:30] Speaker 1: Might not happen by this year end itself. It's good
[6:32] Speaker 1: if there's too much pressure, but I'm thinking early next
[6:36] Speaker 1: year because I don't think professor units will be able
[6:41] Speaker 1: to sustain an interim government for longer than that. Okay, okay,
[6:46] Speaker 1: there'd be too much pressure, the pulls and pushes within
[6:49] Speaker 1: the countries, way too much right now.
[6:54] Speaker 2: I mean regarding the BNP because you know the anti
[6:57] Speaker 2: inder sentiment in Bangladesh from you know, boycotting Indian goes
[7:03] Speaker 2: it started, and then how it has catapulted to something.
[7:08] Speaker 1: India out campaign. They actually had an India out campaign.
[7:12] Speaker 1: They were doing away with Indian sari's, Indian heart effacts,
[7:15] Speaker 1: everything Indian. In fact, they actually accused Sheikasina wearing Indian saris,
[7:20] Speaker 1: which is which is not true. She's famous, she's known
[7:24] Speaker 1: for her dark eye saries.
[7:26] Speaker 2: Yeah. Right. The main focus here is of the BNP
[7:30] Speaker 2: making this demand to extradite shakers.
[7:34] Speaker 1: We discussed it last last time and I said, it
[7:36] Speaker 1: is going to happen sooner or later.
[7:38] Speaker 2: Sooner or later, So let's let's explore that. How is
[7:42] Speaker 2: because like I said, you know, India is at the focus.
[7:44] Speaker 2: So how is India going to react, How is India
[7:47] Speaker 2: going to see this and what will India's steps be?
[7:51] Speaker 1: Because there is pressure.
[7:53] Speaker 2: Just this Monday only, but recording on the Tuesday, just
[7:55] Speaker 2: this Monday, yesterday BNP's general secretary is a fuck, rule
[7:59] Speaker 2: is love, Alamgir. He told the Indian media to PTI
[8:04] Speaker 2: that Shaikhsina must be extra write it and face trial
[8:07] Speaker 2: in Bangladesh. And on the same day, Mohamad Kadir, who
[8:10] Speaker 2: is the chairman of the Jatia Party and former opposition leader,
[8:13] Speaker 2: he echoed this call. And I'm quoting what Alamghir said.
[8:18] Speaker 2: He said that Shaikh Hasina has to face the law
[8:21] Speaker 2: of Bangladesh for all the crimes and corruption committed by
[8:24] Speaker 2: her and her regime. To enable this and respect the
[8:28] Speaker 2: sentiments of the people of Bangladesh, India should ensure her
[8:31] Speaker 2: return to Bangladesh. And Hasina and the Awami League are
[8:35] Speaker 2: both condemned here and standing by them will only worsen
[8:39] Speaker 2: the perception of India in Bangladesh. So right off the
[8:42] Speaker 2: bad Gida, what do you think how India will going too?
[8:46] Speaker 2: You know will be reacting to this.
[8:48] Speaker 1: So this is a taking time bomb, I'd say. And
[8:51] Speaker 1: I don't say this because we should not engage Ourami League.
[8:55] Speaker 1: They have been very good to us. Shak Casina as
[8:59] Speaker 1: a neighbor hood leader, has been very very good to India.
[9:03] Speaker 1: In fact, the fear is that Bangladesh will no longer
[9:06] Speaker 1: be the country the trusted partner that India saw in
[9:11] Speaker 1: her With the BNP, with the Jamath, with any other
[9:15] Speaker 1: party that comes to power, the geopolitical dynamics is going
[9:20] Speaker 1: to shift and drastically.
[9:22] Speaker 2: So.
[9:23] Speaker 1: But over here, the demand back home of the people
[9:28] Speaker 1: is because of what her own tenure in the past
[9:32] Speaker 1: two terms has been. That aside. Why do I say
[9:36] Speaker 1: it's the ticking bomb is because the longer So there
[9:39] Speaker 1: are two things. One is that India wants to have
[9:41] Speaker 1: good relations with Bangladesh. Bangladesh on the one hand has
[9:46] Speaker 1: worn and threatened, but also has said because this is
[9:49] Speaker 1: the reality, this is the real picture. They also understand
[9:52] Speaker 1: the importance of India. BNP understood that, you know, you
[9:55] Speaker 1: cannot sustain a government or the country without India support.
[10:00] Speaker 1: You either choose to support terrorists and allow them space,
[10:04] Speaker 1: or you choose to engage India. Professor Unis has made
[10:07] Speaker 1: it very clear that there's that's the interim government BNP
[10:10] Speaker 1: side that they want very good ties with India. So
[10:15] Speaker 1: when they're saying this, India is going to look at,
[10:18] Speaker 1: you know, reaching out as well, because Bangladesha is important,
[10:22] Speaker 1: but in doing so and knowing that if there are
[10:26] Speaker 1: elections that are held in all probability, BNP will be
[10:29] Speaker 1: coming to power. And if the General Secretary is saying
[10:33] Speaker 1: that keeping Shaikhasina in India could cost the two countries,
[10:39] Speaker 1: it's good diplomatic ties and that is something that India
[10:43] Speaker 1: will have to actually think over. But it's a ticking
[10:46] Speaker 1: bomb because when she left it was on a very
[10:50] Speaker 1: short notice. As a friend, India had no other choice
[10:53] Speaker 1: and shouldn't have. India should have hosted her, which is
[10:56] Speaker 1: what India did. And right now in the middle of conversations,
[11:02] Speaker 1: I suppose with countries where she could go. Like I
[11:07] Speaker 1: said last time, Anna, it no longer is in the
[11:10] Speaker 1: realm of shake Casina and her camp figuring a country
[11:14] Speaker 1: out that India will have to play a role in
[11:17] Speaker 1: this and get a friendly partner to host her. Okay,
[11:22] Speaker 1: one that will not face the brunt or the impact
[11:26] Speaker 1: of a hostile Bangladesh. European countries could. But if it's
[11:33] Speaker 1: a country like you, a strong ties and Bangladesh will
[11:38] Speaker 1: not take a very hostile view to shake Asina being
[11:42] Speaker 1: hosted in the bye. But again these are all you
[11:44] Speaker 1: know things we're hearing it's all up in the air.
[11:47] Speaker 1: We'll have to wait and see where she goes next.
[11:50] Speaker 1: But she will have to go for India to be
[11:53] Speaker 1: able to freely engage Bangladesh. Otherwise this will always be
[11:58] Speaker 1: a sword hanging.
[12:01] Speaker 2: The extraorationion from Indado Bangladesh that you.
[12:05] Speaker 1: Think is like what happened, So this is this is
[12:08] Speaker 1: not the interim government's demand. This is like the police demand.
[12:12] Speaker 1: So it's a political demand. For now, there is no
[12:16] Speaker 1: request from the interim government. So to say the request
[12:22] Speaker 1: has to come from the interim government. Political parties can
[12:25] Speaker 1: make demands, Professor Unison, I don't think we'll be doing
[12:28] Speaker 1: that right now. These are not the feathers he wants
[12:30] Speaker 1: to ruffle. If if even if he's looking westward, America
[12:36] Speaker 1: would not want that. America didn't was not of much
[12:39] Speaker 1: help in looking into India's considerations when all this happened.
[12:44] Speaker 1: But they will surely consider this.
[12:46] Speaker 2: So your knows wouldn't want in.
[12:49] Speaker 1: Ruffle feathers with DC and therefore would not want to
[12:53] Speaker 1: break up this issue right now. But should the cases mount,
[12:58] Speaker 1: there will be a lot of pressure. He could rather
[13:02] Speaker 1: say that, you know, let the elections be held a
[13:05] Speaker 1: proper government be in place, and then you can engage
[13:07] Speaker 1: into your next radition. That can also be said, but
[13:10] Speaker 1: for now, the demand is from a political party. Got
[13:14] Speaker 1: a party that was in the opposition and could be
[13:18] Speaker 1: in power.
[13:19] Speaker 2: So I was curious, Kita, because I was thinking that
[13:22] Speaker 2: can Bangladesh with the b and be in power hypothetically
[13:25] Speaker 2: afford to have a very like a strained relationship with India.
[13:30] Speaker 2: Because s J. S. Hunker I was listening to him
[13:33] Speaker 2: the other day, he said recently that when the boycott
[13:35] Speaker 2: Maldives had happened, and you know, there was a poor
[13:39] Speaker 2: pro China with Mosu coming to power, there was a
[13:42] Speaker 2: pro China in a government elected. So everybody was like, oh,
[13:46] Speaker 2: now the relations with Maldives have you know, have gone
[13:49] Speaker 2: very sour and now you know you can't salvage it.
[13:54] Speaker 2: But you see now just now recently Mohammed Mozu let
[13:58] Speaker 2: the Maldives join hand with Mouritis, Sri Lanka and India
[14:02] Speaker 2: for a regional maritime security architecture at the National Security
[14:06] Speaker 2: Advisor level.
[14:07] Speaker 1: And that's the Columbo dialog. Thirtieth September, that's the Columbo dialog.
[14:11] Speaker 1: They are always there for the Columbo dialogue. Yeah, and
[14:14] Speaker 1: Maldives came there as part of the annual thing that
[14:17] Speaker 1: they do. There's a Bangladesh observer. But you're right in
[14:21] Speaker 1: observing that, yes, they have not gone as India out
[14:24] Speaker 1: as they came to power on the basis of which right,
[14:28] Speaker 1: that has not happened exactly. So I really think Anna
[14:32] Speaker 1: over here there are two things. One is that no
[14:36] Speaker 1: country in the region can really afford to have an
[14:41] Speaker 1: absolute relationship of animosity with India anymore, but in Pakistan
[14:46] Speaker 1: maybe because we're still not talking to Pakistan formally officially.
[14:53] Speaker 1: But there are two ways of looking at every relationship.
[14:56] Speaker 1: The neighborhood has become very difficult, so it's no longer
[15:00] Speaker 1: a friendly neighborhood. It's a difficult neighborhood. India will have
[15:05] Speaker 1: to live with it. India has to realize it. Bangladesh,
[15:08] Speaker 1: I think, was one of the last of the friendly
[15:11] Speaker 1: partners we had and now we've lost Bangladesh itself. Also
[15:16] Speaker 1: with a BNP in power, the relationship will be very difficult.
[15:22] Speaker 1: So it might not be one of animosity that the
[15:27] Speaker 1: two countries would share, but it will certainly be difficult,
[15:31] Speaker 1: and the beginnings of which can be seen with the
[15:34] Speaker 1: Adani electricity now being rejected saying that it's too costly,
[15:39] Speaker 1: there is exploitative so on and so forth. That's just
[15:42] Speaker 1: the beginning. There are going to be a series of
[15:44] Speaker 1: things that you will see where India will have to
[15:47] Speaker 1: fight for every inch of space it gets in Bangladesh.
[15:52] Speaker 1: That's how difficult it's going to get. Make don't have
[15:56] Speaker 1: any doubt about how difficult things are going to get
[15:59] Speaker 1: for Indian Banglad. Is it going to be the way
[16:02] Speaker 1: it was when Kaladazi was in power the last time around?
[16:06] Speaker 1: I don't think so, because this time around they've all
[16:09] Speaker 1: come to power with certain amount of support and blessing
[16:13] Speaker 1: of the West. Also where they weren't clearly out and
[16:17] Speaker 1: out supporting the BNP, but they were certainly standing against Shakersina,
[16:21] Speaker 1: knowing very well that if Shakersina goes then it will
[16:24] Speaker 1: obviously be BNP in Jamath. And you're seeing them back Jamath.
[16:29] Speaker 1: The ban has been lifted. We're seeing a political move
[16:33] Speaker 1: towards creating a space that will allow a BNP to
[16:39] Speaker 1: form government. Right and if that happens, they will have
[16:43] Speaker 1: to look to what the West is, how the West
[16:47] Speaker 1: is monitoring the country and one area where maybe we
[16:53] Speaker 1: will not feel as compromised as in the last Klada
[16:57] Speaker 1: regime is security wise, that this time around they will
[17:01] Speaker 1: not be able to give safe havens to insurgent insurgency
[17:08] Speaker 1: groups as they did last time, that they won't be
[17:12] Speaker 1: camps allowed like or I'm assuming that that should be
[17:17] Speaker 1: the case. I'm assuming that that should be the case, Anna,
[17:20] Speaker 1: because if they do, it is going to be very bad.
[17:23] Speaker 1: Then we have you know, it's going to go beyond difficult.
[17:27] Speaker 1: But on trade investment, they also want trade investment. Their
[17:31] Speaker 1: economies in a shambles now. For a country that was
[17:34] Speaker 1: doing well and growing well, they actually are having a
[17:37] Speaker 1: very difficult time right now and it's all going to
[17:40] Speaker 1: go to a notch and they'll have to start. So
[17:44] Speaker 1: it's a very difficult phase in period. And in that
[17:47] Speaker 1: they will require India for that connectivity, trade investment, the
[17:51] Speaker 1: boost the money a lot of which they will look
[17:55] Speaker 1: at Beijing also for. But they will have to balance
[17:58] Speaker 1: the act because nobody wants to become a satellite state.
[18:02] Speaker 1: And we say that we know looking at the example
[18:04] Speaker 1: of Sri Lanka, but look at what is happening in
[18:06] Speaker 1: the Maldives. They are engaging India yet again because they
[18:09] Speaker 1: also see that they need China a lot of investments.
[18:12] Speaker 1: A lot of the investments now have gone to China,
[18:16] Speaker 1: but they still are trying to engage in India. But
[18:20] Speaker 1: it's also the other way around where India is trying
[18:22] Speaker 1: to really engage the Maldives because you don't want to
[18:25] Speaker 1: lose this country completely. You've lost it quite a bit,
[18:29] Speaker 1: don't want to lose it completely. There's a telling picture
[18:32] Speaker 1: Anna Ben, Doctor Jeshanker landed recently in the Maldives. Do
[18:36] Speaker 1: you know who received him? The man who received him
[18:40] Speaker 1: was the man who was the front of the India
[18:43] Speaker 1: Out campaign. Well received, yeah, the minister.
[18:47] Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what precisely as Jashanka was saying that this
[18:50] Speaker 2: is how diplomacy works, like you have.
[18:53] Speaker 1: To shake hands with people you know might not like
[18:55] Speaker 1: you too exactly, but you have to get your work done.
[18:59] Speaker 1: You have to keep your tests in mind, which is
[19:01] Speaker 1: why India's engaging the mall thieves. Although if you look
[19:05] Speaker 1: at the neighborhood today, whether it's Nepal, it's Silanka to
[19:11] Speaker 1: a certain extent now with the change in government and
[19:13] Speaker 1: everything has become pro and there again they do factor
[19:18] Speaker 1: in what China is thinking and how China is thinking,
[19:23] Speaker 1: the Maldives, Mihanmar, of course, Bangladesh, Nepal already said all
[19:32] Speaker 1: the countries around India right now and our immediate neighbor
[19:37] Speaker 1: China included clearly we have a very difficult relationship.
[19:42] Speaker 2: So all in all of what you're saying is it's
[19:44] Speaker 2: going to be very difficult if the BNP comes in
[19:47] Speaker 2: power in Bangladesh for India to engage with and work with.
[19:52] Speaker 2: But it doesn't mean that the ties will be cut
[19:54] Speaker 2: off for both India and BNP to actually afford that
[19:59] Speaker 2: is going to think, Yeah, that is because ultimately the
[20:02] Speaker 2: past and the history will sort of keep both the
[20:06] Speaker 2: countries together absolutely.
[20:08] Speaker 1: But believe me, if they if they election the hell sooner,
[20:11] Speaker 1: the only thing that B and B will focus on
[20:14] Speaker 1: is shaik Hasina and her extradition. That's what because for
[20:18] Speaker 1: them there have been political murders that were committed for them,
[20:23] Speaker 1: there are charges of killings, in murder and persecution now
[20:27] Speaker 1: against her. So if they want to go to their
[20:30] Speaker 1: people and say justice has been served, this is accountability,
[20:35] Speaker 1: then the person responsible for that will have to be
[20:37] Speaker 1: held accountable and so they will have to then you know,
[20:42] Speaker 1: seek extradition. So they're already creating that atmosphere where they're
[20:46] Speaker 1: saying that if it's if it's here, if she's here,
[20:50] Speaker 1: then in India, but if she moves anywhere, there will
[20:54] Speaker 1: be an extradition request that will go to that country. Basically,
[20:58] Speaker 1: the question should be to turn around and it's not
[21:02] Speaker 1: just about India and what India will face, because India
[21:05] Speaker 1: will have to move her out. This is now established
[21:08] Speaker 1: that we're sitting on a ticking bomb time bomb over
[21:12] Speaker 1: here and she will have to be moved out. With
[21:17] Speaker 1: all due respect to all that she's done. We're not
[21:19] Speaker 1: saying this's just the politics of her country that has
[21:22] Speaker 1: changed and that makes life very difficult. Having said that,
[21:26] Speaker 1: the question should be turned around on how difficult it's
[21:29] Speaker 1: going to get for Shakasina and her family right now.
[21:33] Speaker 1: No matter where she goes, she will be hunted down
[21:37] Speaker 1: by the Bangladeshika. What is very interesting over here, Anna
[21:42] Speaker 1: is and we did that story sometime ago when we
[21:44] Speaker 1: got the foreign minister, the then foreign minister during the
[21:47] Speaker 1: Shakassina regime, not so long ago, that Shaik Mujiburrhaman's killers
[21:53] Speaker 1: are sitting in Canada and the US on asylum, asylum
[21:58] Speaker 1: denied to or whatever were not considered shake Casino, she
[22:02] Speaker 1: didn't ask for it. Whatever, But look at the play
[22:06] Speaker 1: out here in the North Americas where Canada and America
[22:11] Speaker 1: okay housing killers, but not okay with Casina coming to tefically.
[22:21] Speaker 1: I am okay with that her them questioning her and
[22:24] Speaker 1: her human rights record. Whatever you want to do, that's us. Yeah,
[22:30] Speaker 1: that's your individual decision on how the country is looking
[22:33] Speaker 1: at the records at this point in time. At least
[22:36] Speaker 1: US made it, but then sheha Casina's government tried for
[22:40] Speaker 1: years to get them extradited. Extradition is not an easy
[22:43] Speaker 1: easy thing establishing.
[22:47] Speaker 2: Legal process, right, I mean that's how it.
[22:50] Speaker 1: Also, because the moment you say that the penalty would
[22:54] Speaker 1: be death, then it becomes a no go for quite
[22:58] Speaker 1: a few of these countries. So the conversation will be
[23:03] Speaker 1: is it going to be less than death or not? Okay,
[23:05] Speaker 1: it cannot be death. I mean a lot of countries
[23:08] Speaker 1: don't have death sentences, although US does. I'm just saying
[23:12] Speaker 1: that that becomes a noco because then they claim persecution,
[23:16] Speaker 1: that this is political when detta and persecution, we were
[23:18] Speaker 1: not involved right.
[23:21] Speaker 2: Just quickly, Gaita, I just want to focus on one
[23:23] Speaker 2: of the other things that the BNPS, you know, General
[23:28] Speaker 2: Secretary said. He said that with an India our campaign
[23:31] Speaker 2: in Bangladesh, there is passable anger against India and India's
[23:35] Speaker 2: diplomacy regarding Bangladesh was not pragmatic. I know it's politically motivated,
[23:41] Speaker 2: but regardless, I just.
[23:43] Speaker 1: For that premise was the premise of the statement.
[23:45] Speaker 2: So he's saying that India did not established a relationship
[23:48] Speaker 2: with the people of Bangladesh and other stake career. And
[23:53] Speaker 2: you don't think that India really faulted here because he's
[23:56] Speaker 2: saying that India actually put all the eggs in one basket,
[24:00] Speaker 2: complying the Aami League and you never engage try to English.
[24:03] Speaker 1: But they engage the people also, they engage the people.
[24:07] Speaker 1: There's a lot of people to people exchange what they
[24:09] Speaker 1: did not do. Now, this is where I folt. The
[24:12] Speaker 1: government is read the room that people were unhappy with
[24:17] Speaker 1: her for her high handedness, that there was a curtailment
[24:21] Speaker 1: of freedom. But you were looking the other way because
[24:23] Speaker 1: you're thinking that if she Casina goes, then B and
[24:28] Speaker 1: P will come and it will be a massive disaster
[24:30] Speaker 1: for India. That's not how you look at it. Firstly. Secondly,
[24:36] Speaker 1: when the opposition is boycotting elections and you're not telling
[24:39] Speaker 1: your friend, your friend right, your friend that if you
[24:44] Speaker 1: do this, if you go ahead without an interim government,
[24:48] Speaker 1: which is the rule, or which is how you've conducted elections,
[24:52] Speaker 1: If you don't have an interim government and you conduct
[24:55] Speaker 1: elections yourself and there's a boycott, then that's also curtail
[25:00] Speaker 1: of rights. People are not happy with you that reading
[25:03] Speaker 1: of the room and telling your friend that stop this.
[25:06] Speaker 1: Now you're not doing because you think it'll cost you
[25:09] Speaker 1: your friendship with the Ava Miligan which Shaikh Hasina and
[25:12] Speaker 1: at this point in time you couldn't afford to do.
[25:14] Speaker 1: That is not good enough. That's where they were not
[25:17] Speaker 1: one with the people, not like people to people exchange
[25:21] Speaker 1: was not happening, or INDEV was not thinking for the
[25:23] Speaker 1: people of Bangladesh because there's so many development projects in
[25:26] Speaker 1: they was doing with the people of Afghanistan, so many
[25:29] Speaker 1: projects not just development otherwise also incentives, vocational training, vocations.
[25:35] Speaker 1: A lot was happening between Indian Bangladesh at so many levels.
[25:40] Speaker 1: But to not honestly give that assessment to your friend
[25:46] Speaker 1: and partner that you are right now wrong, and you're
[25:49] Speaker 1: losing not just credibility, public support is the problem here.
[25:56] Speaker 1: So they can say, well, this was inevitable that you know,
[26:00] Speaker 1: we have some from indiausive but you know, and a
[26:04] Speaker 1: lot of it is blamed on legacies on so I'm sorry,
[26:08] Speaker 1: take onus. It's all right. Sometimes, yes, you make you
[26:13] Speaker 1: make a judgment thinking, knowing what you think is right
[26:16] Speaker 1: for your country at that point in time. Little did
[26:19] Speaker 1: anybody think that it will descend to this chaos. Everybody
[26:24] Speaker 1: thought that okay, there'll be another election, or she'll be
[26:26] Speaker 1: able to manage a control. Nobody thought that it will
[26:28] Speaker 1: descend to this madness and anarchy, right.
[26:31] Speaker 2: Right, But then that's that's the beauty of diplomacy, right,
[26:34] Speaker 2: I mean.
[26:35] Speaker 1: That democracy or diplomacy, diplomacy and democracy both.
[26:39] Speaker 2: I'm speaking from the Indian perspective that when he's saying
[26:42] Speaker 2: that you put all eggs in one basket, of course
[26:45] Speaker 2: I agree with you, But then you also anticipate that
[26:48] Speaker 2: there are other players.
[26:49] Speaker 1: Right, if that was the argument, yes, they did put
[26:53] Speaker 1: all eggs in the our army league basket, which means
[26:55] Speaker 1: that they actually even in terms of engaging people. They
[26:58] Speaker 1: were engaging those who are pro Our Army League. Yeah,
[27:00] Speaker 1: it's not like those who are sitting in the opposition
[27:03] Speaker 1: of people supporting the BNP are being benefited at all
[27:07] Speaker 1: or I don't know whether the benefits apart from the
[27:09] Speaker 1: development projects, which is why everybody other engagements and I
[27:13] Speaker 1: don't know how much engagement happened on that front, which
[27:17] Speaker 1: is why we are a little a little lost there,
[27:21] Speaker 1: you know, in terms of trying to find our way
[27:24] Speaker 1: back into the.
[27:25] Speaker 2: And not only there's there are other issues as well, like,
[27:28] Speaker 2: for example, the visa thing. I mean at a time
[27:32] Speaker 2: when Bangladesh is thinking that, okay, you need a country
[27:35] Speaker 2: to be supportive Indian visa centers in Bangladesh, they have
[27:38] Speaker 2: limited their services. Of course there are reasons.
[27:41] Speaker 1: To that, but there's a lot of security as.
[27:43] Speaker 2: Security aspects, yes, but that has become an issue, you know,
[27:47] Speaker 2: contributing to the antender sentiment. Then the other issue is
[27:51] Speaker 2: the flood issue, although the Ministry of External Affairs have refuted,
[27:55] Speaker 2: I mean said that the CNN report, you know, because
[27:59] Speaker 2: the so many online what does the.
[28:02] Speaker 1: CNN report do this? She's on the Fenny River, she
[28:07] Speaker 1: is in the Fenny River on a boat, and she's
[28:10] Speaker 1: saying exactly what the claims are. She has not gone
[28:14] Speaker 1: and seen whether India has opened the gates and the
[28:17] Speaker 1: waters flu come in, and she's just some she's not corroborated.
[28:22] Speaker 1: She has not gone to the site. There's nothing in
[28:24] Speaker 1: that report. So everybody says, oh my god, this is
[28:27] Speaker 1: the Western She's just saying that the BNP saying this,
[28:30] Speaker 1: although the Indian government is refuting it any which way,
[28:33] Speaker 1: even if you see a BNP tilt to it. The
[28:37] Speaker 1: fact of the matter is that she has not managed
[28:40] Speaker 1: to corroborate anything. She might just be speaking what BNP
[28:44] Speaker 1: government wants her to say, and she must have done that,
[28:46] Speaker 1: but there's no corroboration of that, of the fact that
[28:49] Speaker 1: India actually let out water to destroy That's that's silly, right,
[28:55] Speaker 1: that's bad. That's lazy journalism of badting, not on her
[29:02] Speaker 1: part on the interpretation also of her reporting. She must
[29:06] Speaker 1: just be.
[29:07] Speaker 2: Doing YouTubers are going crazy, but that's not that's.
[29:11] Speaker 1: Not the case. I'm sorry. She has very clearly, if
[29:13] Speaker 1: you see that report, very clearly said that the b
[29:16] Speaker 1: and P or the interim government or whoever is claiming
[29:21] Speaker 1: that India has done that. India has rejected those reports.
[29:25] Speaker 1: And if you see the flood like situation, both sides
[29:29] Speaker 1: of the border have been suffering of course flood like
[29:32] Speaker 1: situation because of the range in the monsoon. So nothing
[29:37] Speaker 1: over here is deliberate and nobody wants it at this
[29:39] Speaker 1: point in time. Why would India want to further spoiled relations?
[29:44] Speaker 1: Why and why would India want to do that to
[29:46] Speaker 1: the people of banglade exactly.
[29:48] Speaker 2: That's what like we are trying some logic, that's that's
[29:52] Speaker 2: the word that has.
[29:55] Speaker 1: Some logic in what Bangladesh is saying, what the YouTubers
[29:59] Speaker 1: are saying, what is happening on social media.
[30:02] Speaker 2: Some logic, Yeah, that needs to be hurt. Also, like
[30:06] Speaker 2: coming to just focusing a bit on Mohammed you knows,
[30:10] Speaker 2: has just completed like twenty four to twenty five days
[30:13] Speaker 2: as the chief advisor to the Bangladeshi you know, in
[30:16] Speaker 2: terim government. And even though it's a very short time, Kita,
[30:19] Speaker 2: it does seem that there is laxity and ensuring the
[30:23] Speaker 2: safety of Bangladesha's religious minorities. Although we have mentioned this,
[30:27] Speaker 2: but in Hindus continue to be assaulted. There are reports
[30:32] Speaker 2: or that Hindu teachers have been made to resign from
[30:34] Speaker 2: their jobs forcefully. And at the same time, like you said,
[30:38] Speaker 2: the UNICE government is busy freeing Jamat leaders. Twenty two
[30:42] Speaker 2: hundred B and P Jamat men have been freed from jail,
[30:46] Speaker 2: and you know they are lifting the ban on the
[30:49] Speaker 2: party and now the B and P is very much
[30:53] Speaker 2: politically motivated. They are demanding the extradition of shaik Asina.
[30:57] Speaker 2: What do you think is exactly happening in Dhaka? And
[31:02] Speaker 2: like what could be the possible rushnail behind lifting the
[31:07] Speaker 2: ban on the on the Islamist Jamat at a time
[31:11] Speaker 2: when your religious minorities are, you know, far from feeling
[31:14] Speaker 2: safe in their own country. Because I was reading this
[31:17] Speaker 2: article in The Economists recently that explained that why the
[31:20] Speaker 2: West so often gets it wrong when it supports a
[31:24] Speaker 2: particular leader in an Asian country. It might still be
[31:28] Speaker 2: very early to give a verdict on unus's credentials right
[31:31] Speaker 2: now as a genuine democrat, you know, or like a
[31:35] Speaker 2: puppet of the autocrats.
[31:37] Speaker 1: But what do you make of what has happened so far.
[31:40] Speaker 2: Since UNOS has taken the reins.
[31:44] Speaker 1: I interviewed Clifford Smith, who is a keen Bangladesh pocher recently,
[31:51] Speaker 1: and he said to me that whatever it is that's
[31:55] Speaker 1: happening in Bangladesh with what with the decisions that are
[31:58] Speaker 1: being taken, one thing is very very clear that Professor
[32:01] Speaker 1: Unis is not in control. There's someone behind him who
[32:05] Speaker 1: is making the decisions. Why is he listening to these
[32:08] Speaker 1: student leaders or the military leaders. So there's somebody who's
[32:16] Speaker 1: there at play. And that might be the case because
[32:20] Speaker 1: Unice was brought in to head an interim government. When
[32:24] Speaker 1: I spoke to Professor Unis himself, he said that he
[32:27] Speaker 1: has no political ambitions and right now he's only holding
[32:30] Speaker 1: a position as chief advisor to the in the interim government.
[32:37] Speaker 1: I do think that his heart might be in the
[32:39] Speaker 1: right place. But whether if that will lead to stability
[32:44] Speaker 1: something we'll have to wait and see, because right now
[32:47] Speaker 1: his primary focus would be to stabilize the country, bring
[32:52] Speaker 1: in law and order situation. But that's the whole point.
[32:57] Speaker 1: He didn't have to release these prisoners right now. Yeah,
[33:02] Speaker 1: I mean, all this could have been a political decision
[33:06] Speaker 1: taken after elections. Why are they being taken now? What
[33:10] Speaker 1: is the reason for him to take these decisions right?
[33:13] Speaker 2: Right? Now, I mean just twenty days, twenty four days here, Yeah,
[33:18] Speaker 2: in power.
[33:19] Speaker 1: So Triffert Smith and I was asking him about this,
[33:23] Speaker 1: only what is the rationale behind the release of these terrorists.
[33:28] Speaker 1: He said that I don't think he's in control, that
[33:32] Speaker 1: there's a very clear decision on where Bangladesh is headed.
[33:38] Speaker 1: And he also said that I don't think US media
[33:41] Speaker 1: understands the nuances of Bangladesh politics, nor do the people
[33:48] Speaker 1: in DC where they don't know what they have done,
[33:53] Speaker 1: that how this is going to impact Bangladesh.
[33:56] Speaker 2: Wow.
[33:56] Speaker 1: So it's actually a very very good interview.
[34:00] Speaker 2: I think it's better if I add the.
[34:03] Speaker 1: Yeah SAT linked because people should watch it to understand
[34:07] Speaker 1: how serious this is getting that those who thought they're
[34:11] Speaker 1: bringing about democracy in the name of democracy of terrorists,
[34:15] Speaker 1: especially those which should be in dis cancer releasing people
[34:20] Speaker 1: who have carried out activities against India and are proscribed
[34:27] Speaker 1: are labeled terrorists. That I mean, you're releasing them.
[34:33] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[34:34] Speaker 1: So shake Hasina for everything else that she's done in
[34:38] Speaker 1: the past two ten years. She did do well for
[34:43] Speaker 1: our country economically, that should be acknowledged, but she also
[34:48] Speaker 1: was going wrong on some counts. Only if we could
[34:52] Speaker 1: have engaged her to say that you know, this is
[34:56] Speaker 1: not how you take people along, but that recognition, realizing,
[35:02] Speaker 1: recognizing autocracy. Questioning it also asked to be done by
[35:08] Speaker 1: responsible nations who understand and recognize autocracy. Right, autocratic behavior,
[35:15] Speaker 1: So looking the other way, thinking it's okay to have
[35:19] Speaker 1: an autocrat or who her people consider an autocrat is
[35:25] Speaker 1: a problem, whether it's in her autocratic behavior. If you
[35:30] Speaker 1: see minorities were more protected than now, yes, so strange
[35:37] Speaker 1: are the ways because worked for India to see that.
[35:41] Speaker 1: You know, minorities were not feeling unsafe. Now they do
[35:45] Speaker 1: feel unsafe. Although if you speak to BNP leaders and
[35:49] Speaker 1: if you speak to the interim government, the leader they
[35:52] Speaker 1: are living in denial saying that that's not the case.
[35:56] Speaker 1: But that certainly is the case. I spoke with colleges,
[36:00] Speaker 1: said minority of First Minister in Bangladesh. He absolutely rejected
[36:06] Speaker 1: the idea of minorities being unsafe. He said, there have
[36:10] Speaker 1: been some quote unquote isolated incidents, does not mean that
[36:14] Speaker 1: minorities are impacted. So it is again a very good interview.
[36:18] Speaker 1: People should watch to understand how the interim government is
[36:23] Speaker 1: reacting to the situation in the country.
[36:26] Speaker 2: Right that itself is a like a you know, subject
[36:30] Speaker 2: in itself which needs to be properly studied.
[36:33] Speaker 1: And oh my god, because you do, I see another
[36:35] Speaker 1: podcast coming on minority in persecution. Actually we should, we should,
[36:43] Speaker 1: we should look at that on a serious note.
[36:47] Speaker 2: So Gita, as we conclude, now we have explored how probable,
[36:52] Speaker 2: you know, how India would probably react to Bangladesh if
[36:57] Speaker 2: BNP comes to part and if you know how this
[36:59] Speaker 2: is a bomb for India. So let's also just quickly
[37:05] Speaker 2: examine and understand how a Bangladesh would look like with
[37:11] Speaker 2: B and P. At the hell, I'm not talking in
[37:14] Speaker 2: terms of how India's relations would be, but like internally,
[37:18] Speaker 2: how do you see a Bangladesh with BNP in the bar?
[37:21] Speaker 1: Do you see?
[37:23] Speaker 2: It?
[37:23] Speaker 1: All depends on what their focus is going to be.
[37:25] Speaker 1: First and foremost their focus should be economy. They have
[37:28] Speaker 1: to bring it back to where it was. I recently
[37:31] Speaker 1: had somebody come from Shanthony Kathan, this old sarry you
[37:37] Speaker 1: know the oda who comes and a lot of the
[37:41] Speaker 1: sari is a lot of the hand loom that Dhakai
[37:44] Speaker 1: come from Bangladesh. So when this time he'd come, g
[37:47] Speaker 1: comes before Pujo. So this time when he came, he
[37:50] Speaker 1: said that, or not much from Dhaka this time around,
[37:54] Speaker 1: because all the hand loom factories, quite a few of
[37:58] Speaker 1: them have been burned out. Naxan had tremendous loss that
[38:03] Speaker 1: they're facing. Although he comes from Shantana Cathan, so he's
[38:07] Speaker 1: getting fantastic stuff. But the people who would send a
[38:13] Speaker 1: lot of this stuff to Shanthani Cathan and they'd come
[38:15] Speaker 1: to Delhi with the saris and you know they're all
[38:18] Speaker 1: marked which one is from which you know, uh, craftsmen. Yeah,
[38:24] Speaker 1: so there you will see a massive uh you've already
[38:29] Speaker 1: seen a massive loss in damage and they'll have to
[38:32] Speaker 1: work on that. The other aspect is engagement with India
[38:36] Speaker 1: and the neighborhood balancing ties between China and India, because
[38:41] Speaker 1: it is very important to ensure that they have good
[38:44] Speaker 1: ties with both and not one that edges the other
[38:47] Speaker 1: out because uh, that will lead to very strange ties
[38:54] Speaker 1: in a country club between two Asian giants. Thirdly, their
[38:57] Speaker 1: relation B and p's relations with Pakistan and they I
[39:01] Speaker 1: and we've spoken about this earlier also how they've been
[39:03] Speaker 1: engaged with the Pakistani I SI and how that could
[39:08] Speaker 1: create a security concern for India. So will they look
[39:12] Speaker 1: into those security concerns and ensure that whatever their engagements
[39:16] Speaker 1: are are confined to two countries bilateral engagements and not
[39:21] Speaker 1: US pill over to India security concerns. Then B and
[39:25] Speaker 1: P will also have to have good ties with the
[39:28] Speaker 1: United States of America because US is watching. They actually
[39:31] Speaker 1: thanked the US ambassadors. Some of the Jamati people and
[39:35] Speaker 1: people in the streets thank the US ambassador for the
[39:39] Speaker 1: ambassador's intervention. So that's very important. And in all this
[39:44] Speaker 1: there's also that entire aspect of enteering elections. What is
[39:47] Speaker 1: going to happen BNP. When I was asking for Croal
[39:50] Speaker 1: Islam Miza Coroal Islam Alum gear about BNP and a
[39:56] Speaker 1: Jamat coming to power together, he said, why are you
[39:58] Speaker 1: always clubbing us together of BNP's zone party Because Jamath
[40:02] Speaker 1: is extreme and they don't want to be seen as extreme.
[40:06] Speaker 1: So they will try their elections and then see if
[40:09] Speaker 1: they have the numbers. If not, they will have to
[40:11] Speaker 1: get back to the Jamath in a in a coalition government.
[40:14] Speaker 1: Should that be the case, Okay, if they get the numbers.
[40:18] Speaker 1: If gets the numbers, then they will not require the Jamath.
[40:21] Speaker 1: Otherwise they'll have to help. So right now, I think
[40:25] Speaker 1: they're just like leveling the field. Right now, they're just
[40:28] Speaker 1: trying to feel the country's pulse ahead of elections, and
[40:35] Speaker 1: we're burying themselves and every constituency for themselves with these statements.
[40:40] Speaker 2: Also, they're like sort of giving a message that okay,
[40:43] Speaker 2: if we come to part, these are things that they'll
[40:45] Speaker 2: be like, we want to, you know, retract many of
[40:49] Speaker 2: the bilateral treaties between India and Bangladesh. So these are
[40:52] Speaker 2: the things that they're just going with right now so
[40:56] Speaker 2: that they give a message. But of course if they
[40:58] Speaker 2: come in part, I think it will be different, you know,
[41:01] Speaker 2: because you have to let the diplomacy also work. It
[41:04] Speaker 2: can't be like this or that, right, Yes, okay, so
[41:09] Speaker 2: I think we'll put an end on that. Known Kata.
[41:12] Speaker 2: Thank you so much as always.
[41:14] Speaker 1: Thank you. I'm very very enriching.
[41:16] Speaker 2: And I hope all the listeners and viewers also who
[41:19] Speaker 2: keep commenting, by the way and sending their messages.
[41:22] Speaker 1: Thank you so much for that. Bill as in, when
[41:26] Speaker 1: find time, will respond to all your messages. But please
[41:30] Speaker 1: keep writing in, please keep suggesting. It's always a pleasure.
[41:33] Speaker 2: Thank you, Yeah, thank you. And there's a number which
[41:35] Speaker 2: is eighty five double eight nine, double six, double line six,
[41:39] Speaker 2: and you could also email us on ports at the
[41:41] Speaker 2: rate in there today dot Com also leave us a rating.
[41:45] Speaker 2: I mean, please do definitely matter, Spotify, Apple Podcast, wherever
[41:49] Speaker 2: you find your podcast on.
[41:51] Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you,

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