# Will 'Trolling' By Maldivian Ministers, Adverse Relations With Male, Compromise India's Interests In Indo-Pacific? | Geeta's World, Ep 76

An episode of [Geeta's World](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1635741757), 16 Jan 2024, 47 min.

Audio: https://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/api.spreaker.com/download/episode/58319848/16_jan_24_gw_16_jan_128.mp3

Diplomatic tensions between India and Maldives ignited on January 4 when PM Modi shared tourism-promoting images from his Lakshadweep islands’ visit. This triggered a social media war involving Maldivian officials and Indian users. But, there was no direct mention of Maldives by PM Modi or other Indian officials. So, what sparked this anger? And is boycotting Maldives really a response to this diplomatic tension? Our host Anna Priyadarshini and foreign affairs editor at India Today, TV Today Network Geeta Mohan discuss in this episode of Geeta's World! Listen in! Produced by Anna Priyadarshini Sound Mix by Kapil Dev Singh

## Transcript

[0:00] This is India Today podcasts. Diplomatic tensions between India and Maldives ignited on fourth
[0:10] of January when Prime Minister Mody shared tourism promoting images from his luxury island's visit.
[0:16] This triggered a social media war involving Maldivian officials and Indian users, but
[0:23] there was no direct mention of Maldives by Prime Minister Moody or other Indian officials.
[0:28] What sparked this anger and how and why did Maldives come in the picture?
[0:32] So they did not speak of any other holiday destination around India which are
[0:37] beautiful but are pro India. They just mentioned the Maldives, which just because
[0:42] there has been a change of government two months ago, And is boycotting Maldives
[0:47] really a response to this diplomatic tension? Boycotting is not the response will not
[0:53] solve anything because even if they do, what will it do? It will
[0:57] serve the Maldives on a platter to China. Why should India seedspace to China
[1:03] in the Maldives. Hello, I'm Anna Pradeshani with India Today TV's Foreign Affairs
[1:10] editor Gita Mohan, where with Geta's astute and incisive crasp of world affairs.
[1:15] We delve into all that is urgent and pressing in world politics and comprehend how
[1:21] these developments in other countries could shape India's global ambitions of being a wish for
[1:26] Guru, Let's untravel Geita's World. Hello and welcome. This is the seventy
[1:34] sixth episode of Githa's World, and today we are discussing something really really important,
[1:40] something that dominated the past week. It is regarding the India Maldives RAO
[1:47] the dispute that sort of escalated on social media and what ensured was like a
[1:53] very you know, flurry of opinion spanning from individuals who are sort of well
[1:57] versed with the topic with internal international politics two those who are less acquented,
[2:05] and they were all, you know, eagerly expressing their perspectives, various perspectives
[2:08] on the matter. Even surprisingly Gita, there were some Bollywood and sports celebrities
[2:16] who joined the quartus. They were rallying behind their respective stances. But anyway,
[2:23] I mean, we are not going into that, So before we get
[2:25] to the topic, I'll just give you a small gist. So it all
[2:29] started when on the fourth of January, Prime Minister Mody he shared images on
[2:32] x from his visit to luxury violence and his post promoting tourism and luxury set
[2:38] of a social media war between Maldivian politicians, government officials and Indian social media
[2:45] users. And in response, what happened is that the Maldives government suspended three
[2:49] ministers for making these derogatory remarks that were obnoxious, They were xenophobic, they
[2:54] were racist about Prime Minister Modi and the people of India. So based on
[3:01] this event, on this diplomatic row, in this particular episode, will sort
[3:06] of try to understand that like from India out to now Maldives out, are
[3:12] the relations between these two countries beyond repair? Now? If yes, how
[3:15] are these two countries going to navigate it? And this social media uproar will
[3:22] impact the Maldives tourism industry in the long run given the significant reliance of the
[3:27] Maldives on Indian totists. And how does of course China come into play in
[3:32] the midst of all this and will there be any sort of damage control?
[3:38] So tell me, Gita, how is your experience because you were there on
[3:42] the ground when all of this thing was happening. So much of social media
[3:47] Ruckers was being created, and in the midst of that you went on the
[3:51] ground to really record the response from the Maldivians. I mean there's a different
[3:57] story altogether that you when you landed, you posted a picture of yours with
[4:01] the Maldivian beach on the background, and you were brutally trolled. You want
[4:06] to pick up from that, well, yes, because it comes with a
[4:10] lot of assumptions and biases. They the social media went into a flurry or
[4:17] dizzy saying that here I was trying to poke and those who were saying boycott
[4:25] Maldives to begin with Anna, boycott Maldives itself is something that one should really
[4:30] give a rethink and reconsider that entire call itself for because if you see the
[4:36] reporting that we did from the ground, you realize that most Moldavians really are
[4:43] fond of India, really want to remain engaged with India, and it's not
[4:47] a popular opinion to have India out, as the campaign was of Yamin and
[4:55] Muizu during elections. While they want to confine it to the military aspect,
[5:01] the fact is that it is a pro China government. But if we continue
[5:05] this call and do not pay heat to the fact that Maldivians don't want this
[5:11] call. Mouldivians want to remain friends with India. If we do not pay
[5:15] heat to that, then it will only result in and if we continue be
[5:21] spewing venom or showing hate towards the Maldives, it will only end up with
[5:28] the pro India party, the pro India people their space shrinking, not just
[5:36] political space, otherwise also in the country. And you don't want that.
[5:42] Do you want a consolidation of a pro China party with pro China people in
[5:46] the Maldives. Does it work in India's interest? Look at the elections that
[5:50] took place, the mayoral elections that took place two days ago. Muizu was
[5:57] the mayor of Malaya and after he any presidential elections, the seat fell taken.
[6:02] And now it is the opposition party mdp's candidate who won the elections.
[6:10] A seam and yes, that speaks volumes of how the people are looking at
[6:16] the situation on the ground. So while people were trolling me one they did
[6:21] not realize that this was a reporting assignment and that I was going to report
[6:28] on something very important. Then the next stage was that why do you need
[6:31] to report? We know exactly what we want to think of the Maldives.
[6:35] Well, you might think you already know exactly what you want to do and
[6:40] the stand you've taken on the Maldives, but that's not what the government stand
[6:45] is. Look at the government. Has there been any statement from the government
[6:49] saying anything. It only escalated to a diplomatic row when sitting ministers who were
[6:57] basically activists in the Muizuk during elections and then were rewarded with these deputy ministerial
[7:04] positions came out and used their official space on x or what we call Twitter
[7:13] and posted hate messages, disparaging messages against Prime Minister Modi, and that certainly
[7:25] set the ball rolling on the diplomatic war. Now we're actually I want to
[7:28] just cut your short here to really understand because say Gita, like you said
[7:32] that, you know, there are so many people here there on social media
[7:36] just going with the trend that yeah, okay, boycott moldus, boycott moldus,
[7:41] and will come to the importance of that and why we shouldn't engage in
[7:44] such social media spewing hatred. But in terms of the genesis of all this,
[7:49] that's where did it start and what exactly was the impetus. Like for
[7:55] one thing in the past, Prime Minister Modi, remember he had out tritly
[8:00] he said that Indians should not choose to opt for destination weddings, rather they
[8:05] should prefer to get married in the country. But in this case, there
[8:09] was no like you know, not even a veiled reference to Maldives by him
[8:13] nor by any government official when he went to Luxury. But there were reports
[8:18] in the mainstream Indian media as well that after Modi's visit, the Google trends
[8:24] to reach the island skyrocketed. There were searches like how to which is a
[8:28] good thing? Which is really this is a good thing. But there were
[8:33] also reports that said that Modi's visit is not just about promoting tourism there,
[8:39] but it is also a strategic counter for the Maldives and this archipelago offers an
[8:45] alternative to the Maldives, aligning with India's broader objectives to counterbalance China's growing footprint
[8:50] in the Indian Ocean region. So this narrative was indeed, uh you know,
[8:58] perpetrated by the Indian media as well. So even though there was no
[9:01] official mention to Maldives, his visit to Luxury was already hinted as like a
[9:07] counter to Maldives in the Indian space two and then this became an uproarch and
[9:13] then inflated and these derogated and obloxious comments were made. You think, like,
[9:18] this is the whole trajectory. Did I get this right or there was
[9:22] something or molect proceeding to it. There was a little more in terms of
[9:26] layers. So what happened was you're right that Prime Minister Moody spoke about luxury
[9:33] and he has been for a very long time talking about how people should be
[9:39] looking within rather than look out to promote errors within India, which is a
[9:45] great thing. Now, what happened was it's not just mainstream media. Mainstream
[9:50] media started reporting what was already a buzz on social media, so on social
[9:54] media in India because the context was that because there is an anti India establishment
[10:03] in the Maldives, some of the people who are influencers and social media started
[10:09] putting out messages saying, why look at the Maldives when you have luck with
[10:13] them? Okay, So when that happened, yeah, there was a Twitter
[10:18] war that took place with Moldiv in social media. Responding to these social media,
[10:24] the Indian social media users and influencers and saying, well, nobody can
[10:31] replace the Maldives. It has its own beauty uniqueness. And so there was
[10:35] a to and fro to and fro to and fro between you know, trolls,
[10:39] influencers on the side of trolls and influences on that side. I say
[10:43] trolls because there was a lot of bad language also that did the rounds till
[10:48] the time the deputy ministers reacted. The moment these activist earned politicians put out
[10:56] posts and retweeted some of the obnoxious trolls in the Maldives is when it took
[11:05] her an ugly diplomatic turn. And since then we've seen the Maldivian envoy being
[11:11] summoned. And then there was a scheduled meeting between the Indian High Commissioner and
[11:16] the Foreign Ministry. In that meeting, also this entire matter came up Muizu
[11:20] after just landing, and it so happened that he was in China at the
[11:24] time the Twitter war broke out, and so the moment he landed, he
[11:30] also spoke about let's not be bullied. And then there was a meeting on
[11:33] Sunday with the Ministry of UH, Foreign Foreign Affairs officials UH and the Indian
[11:41] High Commission officials where they discussed the troop withdrawal or the military personnel withdrawal.
[11:46] They're no troops there, military personnel withdrawal from a deadline the Maldives. So
[11:50] it all began not because mainstream media had started reporting. Mainstream media started reporting
[11:56] about the searchers and all of that when the social media war had already begun,
[12:01] so without any provocation, because there is an anti So if this were
[12:07] a country which has now become pro India, like a Sri Lanka, they
[12:13] could have written why did they not write why are you going to Sri Lanka
[12:18] or the Maldives when you can go to that, when you can go to
[12:22] luxury. They did not. So they did not speak of any other holiday
[12:26] destination around India which are beautiful but are pro India. They just mentioned the
[12:33] Maldives, which is because there has been a change of government two months ago,
[12:37] and so those who are quite aware of it and want to take on
[12:39] and have been very vocal and talk a lot on foreign policy matters took to
[12:48] social media to compare luxury to the Maldives. Logistically speaking, I think luxury
[12:54] still has a lot of time to become a real holiday destination. But it
[12:58] is beautiful and each half each area. No I've not been there, but
[13:03] I meant a family and you know, V see photos and we do wish
[13:09] to, you know, go to luctuality, but it is actually tedious because
[13:11] you need to take a holidays account for two days of travel going, two
[13:16] days of travel coming. There is one flight from coaching I think, not
[13:22] from Delhi, and otherwise there are ships. So it is a two day
[13:28] journey from here or a today journey coming and a today journey going. And
[13:33] logistics is certainly is still not really up there. And we're not talking about
[13:39] comparing or boy courting or withdrawing. And why do I say that is because
[13:46] we will be discussing the importance of the Maldives. It's not just tourism sector.
[13:50] Anna you go there, you see how deeply entrenched India is in a
[13:54] very critical archipelagic state on the Indian Ocean. That's true. But yeah,
[14:01] because as far as I remember the last time when we were discussing with this
[14:05] peg that you know, they have asked the Indian troops to withdraw from the
[14:09] island. And you mentioned that you know, to have this bitter and sour
[14:13] relations with India, that is that will not go down well with the Maldivians
[14:18] and likewise for India also. I mean, they should worry, but it
[14:22] shouldn't be escalated to that level because you know, they are also that important
[14:26] player, and India should also be sort of optimistic that things will play out
[14:33] in their hands. Yeah, right, And it's not optimistic only because maybe
[14:37] if we have this there's an anti India dispensation in the Maldives. It's not
[14:41] a happy situation, Let's be very honest. But boycotting is not the response.
[14:48] It will not solve anything because even if you even if they do,
[14:54] what will it do? It will serve the Maldives on a platter to Chine.
[15:00] Now, why should those who questioned me and question anyone else, Why
[15:05] should India seats space to China in the Maldives. Why should we again squeeze
[15:11] the Maldives to be our friends? Why should we not look at continuing the
[15:18] relationship, looking at whatever it is, but engaging the people making India's importance
[15:24] felt, which they anyway feel. When I was on the ground the India
[15:28] Gandhi Memorial Hospital that came up after Araji Gandhi's visit. Yes, the institutions
[15:35] that have come up, the connectivity projects that India is a part of and
[15:39] has built. Doctors, nurses, they're all Indians, most of them in
[15:43] the Maldives. Teachers, most of them are Indians. You're the you know
[15:48] in the white collar job sector. All the highly educated people who are working
[15:54] in the tourism sector, the hospitality sector, most of them are Indian,
[16:00] especially at the managerial level, and so on and so forth. You have
[16:03] a lot of labor coming in from Bangladesh, which sends the highest number of
[16:08] workforce into the Maldives, numbering two. About a lack or so one hundred
[16:15] thousand Indians would be about thirty forty thousand, but a very important thirty forty
[16:22] thousand. And when have we not seen ups and downs between India and the
[16:26] Maldives. There was the Yamin administration, and Yamin in fact front of the
[16:30] India Out campaign along with Muizu. Even this time around and after Muzu came
[16:34] to power a week after he threw Yamin out. Yeah, I mean,
[16:41] if you see it, so we're seeing him trying to charge his own course
[16:45] this party was actually like plaid to his like his yeshatto, Yes, you
[16:48] don't have to do anything of the workers still there and then no. But
[16:52] Muizu is trying to show that Yamin is out. He's also maybe trying to
[16:56] balance things. He already has met Minister Modi on the sidelines of COP twenty
[17:02] eight in Dubai, he met Prime Minister Modi and on the sidelines of COP
[17:07] twenty eight. I actually asked this question to him. I said to him,
[17:10] you know you're you're saying the India Out campaign, you're talking about the
[17:14] India Out policy, and you're going to meet Prime Minister Modi. Where do
[17:18] the relations stand? And he said that, well, India is a very
[17:22] important partner. So this is an agenda. When a man comes to power
[17:27] with an agenda, it's a very specific agenda. His India Out was not
[17:32] Indians out or India completely out of the Maldives because he came with the agenda
[17:37] which was also untruthful and disinformation campaign. As the European Union also reported in
[17:42] a report, they've put it out that the India Out campaign was based on
[17:47] disinformation that there are about two thousands and thousands and thousands of Indian military personnel
[17:52] in the Maldives and we warn them out, so not true. It's absolutely
[17:56] untrue. Just seventy five seventy five, five to eighty military personnel who are
[18:02] catering to serving the people of Maldives in the emergency services of ferrying them from
[18:11] one island to Malay where the hospitals are as an emergency medical service. With
[18:17] the Donia aircraft and the helicopters that India gifted to the Maldives, it's a
[18:22] logistical nightmare to be in the Maldives because Maldives is again, like we said,
[18:26] an archepel logic state with a lot of islands, and those islands have
[18:32] no connectivity in terms of land land rich connectivity. They are there are where
[18:37] the traveling happens on ferry boats. So when somebody has an emergency, a
[18:44] medical emergency in any island, it had become very time consuming and they would
[18:49] actually lose lives or the patient becomes critical, so on and so forth.
[18:56] So these helicopters in the dot aircraft that India has gifted really came to their
[19:03] rescue when it comes to the medical services. So to cater to those aircraft
[19:08] servicing of those aircraft and so on and so forth. Were these Indian military
[19:14] personnel there. Now, whatever the decision is, you know that the Movies
[19:18] administration has announced fifteenth March as the deadline for them to leave. And I
[19:22] suppose as a sovereign state they have the right to decide. But if India
[19:26] is not careful with how you want to move ahead on policies with the Maldives,
[19:33] you will be seeding space to China. If you see the chatter in
[19:37] China, they are smiling, They're gleeful with what is happening. They have
[19:41] in fact signed more deals. Tourisms. Minister had gone with Moois in Beijing
[19:49] and the Movies talked about how he wants more tourist Chinese stores to go.
[19:56] Now, Indians are irreplaceable. Indian tourists also irreplaceable. You cannot match in
[20:03] tourists to anyone else because we're so close and in terms of service sector,
[20:08] in terms of hospitality sector, and in terms of medical sector, we are
[20:15] irreplaceable at least as of now, and India would like to keep it that
[20:18] way. So the main camp that works with India very well, the opposition
[20:25] that is sitting in the opposition right now they have the space to say,
[20:29] well, they came on this agenda, but even today, there's only one
[20:33] country that comes to the Maldives rescue and that is India. Whether it's COVID
[20:37] nineteen, whether it's the water crisis, it's all been India all along.
[20:42] There's no other and all the medical services that they get they get it at
[20:47] a very subsidized rate from India. I've speaking to people in the tourism sector
[20:52] anna in the Maldives and common people. They were very, very unhappy with
[20:57] what is happening. They said, tourism sector cannot do. There's so much
[21:03] incoming traffic from India, they cannot do without them. It is true that
[21:07] Indian tourists are maybe the middle middle income tourists and most of their high end
[21:14] tourists are European and Western tourists, but we still make up for fifty to
[21:18] sixty percent of the market share, and that's a lot. That is true.
[21:22] So when you say on the ground, I mean they were really unhappy
[21:26] with the words government or all this. They were unhappy with this situation.
[21:30] Although they did say that well, but you do have troops some of them,
[21:33] you know, said as some of the drivers are saying, and I
[21:37] said, well, there are no troops. There are only these people who
[21:38] are helping your medical services. They said, oh yes, and then some
[21:42] of the others who we were talking to they said, yes, but you
[21:45] know moos is talking about military and all, but we know that there is
[21:48] no military. Where is the military, I asked, this is not there.
[21:52] It's just you know, these people who are helping with the aircraft and
[21:57] the helicopters. They they're quite aware, they know their politics. A lot
[22:03] of people said fifty four percent voted for Mouzu, which means fifty four percent
[22:07] are anti India. That's not the case. Solely did not lose just on
[22:11] the grounds of movies who carrying out an India out campaign. Of course he
[22:15] lost on other issues as well, yea, economic policies. The economy is
[22:21] in dams and there were so many other issues with SOLI. So a lot
[22:25] of people who voted against solely was not because they were for movies soho.
[22:30] It was just because they wanted the incumbent out. There was an anti incumbency
[22:33] factor, So fifty four percent are not all anti India. The tourisen sect
[22:38] was jittery. Most of them apologized, they condemned. They said, we
[22:44] apologize on behalf of those ministers. They were these young entrepreneurs I spoke with.
[22:51] Most of them did not want to come on Telly, or at least
[22:53] not on social media. They didn't come on Telly. They gave me interviews.
[22:56] They said, let's not don't put me on social media. So I
[22:59] don't want to coetrolled here. But the fact is that we really apologize for
[23:04] what was said, and it was absolutely condemnable. The language is absolutely disparaging.
[23:11] A lot of people over there are quite embarrassed with the language that was
[23:15] used. I mean, that's just so. If people over here are reacting,
[23:19] including stars, saying, oh, we should boycott because this minister said
[23:22] that, they're not realizing that the country is not thinking like that. And
[23:27] this is a country or in the Indian Ocean. We need this country as
[23:32] much as they need us. Imagine China sitting over there. They already have
[23:36] so many projects and the next five years are going to look quite grim.
[23:41] The only saving grace is the parliamentary elections which are due in April May.
[23:48] And if the opposition rests control of the Parliament of the Mudulus, then we
[23:56] will have a pretty decent relationships, so to say, because the opposition is
[24:02] certainly going to make life quite impossible for the Muizu administration, and India will
[24:10] continue to engage all quarters. The government has also the opposition. Now that
[24:15] you think gaither of all this, whatever happened, whatever ensued in hindsight,
[24:19] do you also think that this approach was sort of well timed because while all
[24:26] this was happening, like you mentioned, you know, Moisu and his wife,
[24:30] the first Lady, they visited China. They were on a visit,
[24:33] a five day state visit. When he came back, when they came back
[24:37] both countries, they signed like twenty agreements, key agreements, including one on
[24:42] tourism than the elevation of their bilateral ties. And also like after the visit
[24:48] to China, he has also declared Primeistermorre to like he must ensure that the
[24:53] troops are gone by fifteenth of March, and the Chinese Foreign Ministry also said
[24:59] that, you know the relations between China and the Maldives now stand at a
[25:03] new historical starting point and they believe that through this particular visit, the two
[25:07] heads of stage will provide strategic guidance for the bilateral relations to reach a new
[25:14] height. And then the entire bullying thing that we are not a small stage
[25:18] and you can't like not exactly mentioning India but taking a job at them.
[25:22] So you think this was all perfectly timed for this pro China government to make
[25:26] a noise. I think. I think there's some truth to it that it
[25:30] was a bit orchestrated, because there were certain quarters. I think I think
[25:34] the tweeting and the social media war happened only in a way to project to
[25:41] the Chinese, well, we are loyalists, We're close to you, so
[25:45] when we come there, so when we come there, please you know have
[25:49] grew good deals for us because we are making a point to take on India.
[25:55] And that's why he comes back also saying that we will not be bullied
[25:57] by others just because we're a small state. So it's very clear that there
[26:04] was quite a bit of messaging and they use this as an opportunity to gain
[26:08] more to have a stronger handle with Beijing, and which is what we're seeing
[26:15] in play out, or we saw play out when Muzu was in China.
[26:19] So it feels a bit orchestrated. Although the war was maybe began began a
[26:26] little more organically with the influences on both sides, thinking it will be to
[26:30] our advantage to have this, and they made the Maldives a talking point.
[26:37] But I think I don't know. I see the deputy ministers who did what
[26:41] they did are on an indefinite suspension with pay. Normally, there's no such
[26:47] thing as indefinite suspension. There's a suspension, there's investigation and then a decision
[26:52] on whether if the person should stay or be terminated. What is an indefinite
[26:56] suspension of the deputy ministers? Were they asked to do those nasty tweets?
[27:03] Did they cross the line not knowing where to draw the line? We really
[27:08] don't know. But you know, could they have done it without the sanction
[27:11] of Moise We really don't know. But it just does not make sense for
[27:18] sitting ministers to do this. But then again, when you have activistern politicians
[27:23] sitting in such important positions, and it's a country of about five hundred thousand
[27:27] people, with two hundred to three hundred thousand nationals and ministers that number amounts
[27:36] to about three hundred you realize that there was a lot of rewarding for the
[27:41] job that was done on keeping the India Out campaign alive, keeping the hate
[27:49] campaign alive, taking on the back then the dispensation and ensuring a win for
[27:57] Muisu. It's not a very large margin. It was a margin, nonetheless,
[28:03] very pretty decent margin. So again we'll have to wait and see what
[28:07] really happens. The parliamentary elections the next five years are going to be very
[28:12] critical and India will have to walk a very fine line. But this is
[28:17] really not the time to see the space to China. And for those who
[28:21] don't understand diplomacy, they can say whatever they want on Twitter, on Facebook,
[28:26] on any other platform. The fact of the matter is that for India,
[28:30] the Indian Ocean and the waters around are very very important. India is
[28:36] not going to lose the maritime space to a China just because there was a
[28:41] social media war between trolls between trolls. Lastly, this is the crux and
[28:48] the deputy ministers are trolls. That's the statement. But a little more on
[28:56] this pro China and pro India stants as far as Maldives domestic and international politics
[29:03] is concerned. You know, I just want to cite the history here a
[29:07] bit China's diplomatic ties with the Maldives, they're very recent. If we see,
[29:12] Beijing, you know, did not even have an embassy there until twenty
[29:17] twelve. And it was only when Yamin came to power in twenty thirteen that
[29:22] the Maldives you know, signed an FTA with China and they, you know,
[29:26] they started receiving assistance from Beijing for its infrastructure projects. And from what
[29:30] I could gather is that the projects that China built in the Maldives, they're
[29:36] of immense utility. One of them is a friendship bridge. I think we
[29:40] also talked about this in the last episode, the only one that links these
[29:45] two isolands, which is very important for the country that counts tourism as a
[29:49] main source of revenue. And the FTA also meant that the Maldivan market got
[29:56] flooded with Chinese goods and most of the tourists there are from And only after
[30:00] China started this sort of an outreach to Maldives did India start thinking about,
[30:06] you know, helping the Maldives with the infrastructure projects and extending credit lines for
[30:11] that purpose. But from one report that I read, it was published in
[30:15] twenty twenty one, it talked about how the opposition had called out the failure
[30:21] of India's commitment to help the Maldives with its infrastructure projects, and the opposition
[30:27] had alleged that of the five hundred million dollars that the Indian government had promised
[30:32] the Maldivian government in loans and grants, only seventeen million dollars had been invested
[30:37] until then. That was twenty twenty one. So that's the rhetoric that the
[30:41] mood so when it was in the opposition, they had been you know,
[30:45] playing on. So what I want to ask here is that is it because
[30:49] the Mudsu government and its people have actually seen more tangible gains in terms of
[30:56] growth and development from Chinese assistance, that there is a pro China sentiment which
[31:03] is kind of evident in Maldives that the whole thing of now China has also
[31:07] said that they'll restructure the they'll think of restructure the loan payment scheme there.
[31:15] So this the whole thing of debt trapped diplomacy hasn't quite fully played out as
[31:21] it has in other countries, so that they so they don't see China as
[31:25] a threat right now, although there are still you know, Malay's debt obligations
[31:30] to China. And you think that has India, which has had like a
[31:34] very long standing relationship with Malay in terms of helping the small archipelago with its
[31:40] internal security, they have kind of lost a key moment here. How do
[31:45] you see this? See I don't think that India ignored the Maldives completely.
[31:52] Yes, there were economic reasons why we got into certain projects. We did
[31:57] not get into certain projects. It's not the Maldive. Sri Lanka is also
[32:00] an example. But to say that now the Musu administration has an opportunity with
[32:09] China in terms of the infrastructure projects working with China, I think you have
[32:15] to read into what the opposition is also saying over there that you know,
[32:21] should you continue doing what you're doing with Beijing, you will go to Sri
[32:23] Lanka away. So and it's not just the debt trap, it's the economic
[32:30] compulsions of then staying on with China and not having an option at all.
[32:36] Sri Lanka is a country that should be looked at as an example, and
[32:43] the opposition has been talking about that. I spoke with a few of the
[32:45] opposition leaders over then. They all have been saying that should Maldives continue its
[32:51] ways, should this government continue what it's doing and not balance relations. See
[32:57] solely administration was doing a lot with India, was considered pro India. But
[33:01] they still work with China. So there is a bridge between Malay and Hulhomle
[33:07] the two islands connected by China. The bridge is Chinese and such projects will
[33:14] continue. But the government did manage balancing ties between the two countries. Now
[33:19] the Maldivian administration boycotting, yes and vice versa. They can't be boycotting India.
[33:27] They certainly can't be boycotting India. There's a massive price to pay.
[33:30] Should tomorrow, the more the administration turn and say well, okay, you
[33:34] want to do this, let's not do business for some time, it will
[33:37] the Moldivian economy will take a massive hit. So while we are looking at
[33:44] this, and while we say maybe there was reluctance in the past, there
[33:46] has been no reluctance in the recent past at all. India has engaged the
[33:52] Maldives. Indias helped the Maldives. Look at the COVID nineteen pandemic, Look
[33:57] at the water crisis. We were there, We are the first responders.
[34:00] Yeah, and Mourz has also said that his policy is not India out,
[34:06] but it's about Maldivian's first. Yes, so if you're thinking about the economy,
[34:10] you certainly can't just bail out on or like start boycotting a country which
[34:15] has been like a there was Operation Cactus, if everybody remembers, Yes,
[34:21] So there's a history that we share. And this is not how diplomacy works,
[34:24] as as I've learned from you. Absolutely. So what we're looking at
[34:30] over here is that Mali should be very wary of what they're doing, how
[34:35] they're doing it, What is the fine print of the deals that they've come
[34:38] back with, What would it mean for Mali which is already really under a
[34:44] huge economic stress. In fact, one of the people who privy to the
[34:47] inside information regarding the current economic situation in the Maldi said that Maldi's would need
[34:53] additional two hundred and fifty to three hundred million US dollars in budgetary support this
[35:00] financially to keep the country afloat. And where did they get the financial budgetary
[35:07] deficit budget last time? From? From India? No other country supports the
[35:12] Maldives with free aid of financial support like India does, and They've also said
[35:21] that the while you know, there are a lot of deals that have been
[35:24] signed with Beijing during the Muizou visit, they are not grants their commercial contracts
[35:32] with state owned companies of Chinese government agreeing for commercial borrowings now because the Maldivian
[35:40] government and the GDP to debt ratio is in a very bad shape. The
[35:45] IMF and the World Bank will not agree to such borrowings, so they're already
[35:50] in trouble. They have to get all these cleared out. The Maldives need
[35:54] the IMF clearance further commercial borrowings, and that might not really happen. So
[36:00] after Sri Lankan Ghana, it is highly unlikely that the Chinese government will be
[36:06] seen as a country, I mean, he said it's sarcastically, will be
[36:09] seen as a country that is bankrupting yet another country. But that will say
[36:15] said in a sarcastic manner, which means that if they go ahead with this,
[36:19] China indeed will be bankrupting yet another country. Last month, they did
[36:25] not have enough money to pay their civil servants, so they are in a
[36:30] bad shape. They are actually headed the Sri Lanka away. Should they not
[36:34] mend the economic loopholes. I think in twenty twenty six, this is what
[36:40] you said, right in twenty twenty six, mister Motsu's government will have to
[36:44] service a record one point zero seven billion dollar in external tech according to the
[36:50] World Yes, imagine, and then the IMF and the World Bank right now
[36:53] is looking at all the commercial borrowings that they will be They're looking at to
[36:59] service the deals that have been signed in Beijing, and they might not probably
[37:06] say no. I mean, these are the factors that you need to,
[37:09] you know, look at when you are perceiving of something as big as a
[37:15] it's not like a diplomatic spat and like what we what happened with India Canada
[37:19] that you that you just go on social media and start rolling. But there's
[37:22] more to it and I think we should understand that. But before we end
[37:27] the episode, I just want to have, like, there's a quick question
[37:30] that could sound lame, githa disclaimer. So but I was, you know,
[37:37] wondering. I'm sure there would be people like me who'ld be wandering the
[37:39] same, So I just wanted to just spit it out. You know,
[37:43] we have often spoken about India's diplomacy sort of taking a hit in terms of
[37:46] its neighboring countries where there's you know, there's seen a national and domestic political
[37:52] shift, and national politics affect geopolitical relations to a really like to a large
[37:59] extent, but mostly if you see India's relations like, for example, there's
[38:04] a country like the US, you know, despite change in power be Biden
[38:07] Trump, it has more or less the relations have like more or less remained
[38:13] the same owing to several factors, of course, and similarly with many other
[38:17] countries you know, but in terms of its neighbors, this is not the
[38:22] case. Like and our foreign relations are largely determined by by a country's national
[38:30] politics. So if you are to understand this, that is there a blanketed
[38:35] way to how India should navigate its relations, especially with its neighbors, so
[38:40] that even if there is the change in power, it doesn't affect its diplomacy
[38:45] much. No, you can't guarantee that their foreign policy for countries normally is
[38:52] a continuum. Barring a few countries which have parties that are aligned to a
[39:00] certain country or another. For example, India, the foreign policies are continuum,
[39:07] which is we will continue to and remain engaged with the Maldives. But
[39:12] for the Maldives it is about which party is in power. If it's a
[39:15] pro China party, they will start working against Indian interests. If it's a
[39:20] pro India party, then they start not working as much as with China,
[39:24] although if it's a pro China party they also are very careful with India.
[39:29] Similarly, there are many other countries that you'd look at where a change of
[39:31] power could change the policies. Because Nepal is is a case in point.
[39:37] If it's a if it's a if it's a pro China party, then they
[39:43] start looking at India differently. But should a pro India coalition government or a
[39:50] single party come to power in Nepal, then Nepal and India are good.
[39:54] Bangladesh is another example. If you have shapes Hasina, then it's a pro
[40:00] India party, but if you have BNP then it's more not pro China as
[40:06] much because Shakassine also does a very good that's a foreign policy continuum. Shak
[40:10] Assina will work with China as she does with India without hampering the interest of
[40:16] either only looking at Bangladesh's interests. But if it's B and P, then
[40:22] it will be a pro Pakistan party, which becomes a bigger problem for India.
[40:27] Similarly, we have so many other countries where maybe a party change does
[40:30] change how a neighboring country is perceived, but it is not the case when
[40:37] it comes to larger countries where policies are more well defined. They know what
[40:44] they need to do, they know how they need to engage. So for
[40:46] India, largely speaking of foreign policies are continuum and we continue to look at
[40:52] how we should be engaging a country, looking at bettering ties with that country.
[40:58] In fact, even with Iran, irrespective of what the Pea world says
[41:01] about you know, whether if India is hard, does India engage with the
[41:08] Muslim world and Muslim countries. India has done very well with Iran, it's
[41:13] a continuum from the past government up until today. And with West Asia the
[41:19] relations have only become better. With Saudi Arabia, with Yue, with you
[41:22] know, various other countries in West Asia it has only increased. So we're
[41:27] looking at more increased engagement in a policy that we see continue from the past
[41:34] and on various other countries. We try managing depending on government, which parties
[41:39] in power and Maldives has been one such country where every time there has been
[41:45] a change in government and there's a pro China party that is in power.
[41:50] India does have a difficult time, but never say never or never say forever,
[41:57] you know, when it comes to the Maldives, things do change.
[42:00] Yamine was a very difficult time for us, but we've had better times and
[42:05] we only hope to have better times. Also because people on the ground do
[42:09] not hate India. Most of them actually love in there, and there's a
[42:15] very interesting perspective. Anna I was talking to some of these people and the
[42:21] ones who are not very well off are the ones who said this that these
[42:24] ministers or these politicians they have the money and they certainly will have money now
[42:30] if they did not in the past, to go for treatment anywhere in the
[42:34] world. When they're rich in the Maldives fall ill, they go to Singapore.
[42:39] When the poor or the common man in the Maldives falls ill and they
[42:44] don't have facilities in the Maldives, they go to India. So to have
[42:49] that big, high and mighty conversation sitting in their high horse is very different
[42:57] from the reality on the ground. For a common man, India is important
[43:00] It's not just important when it comes to things that we've done within the Maldives,
[43:06] the health sector, the hospitality sector, tour reserves, so on and
[43:09] so forth that has built their economy. It is also the fact that so
[43:15] many Maldivians actually come to India, many for education and so many more for
[43:22] health for medical services. It's very important that you said that there are hospitals
[43:25] in India Ana where you have sections that cater to various countries. And those
[43:30] countries are there are Afghan patients, patients from Iran, patients from the Maldives.
[43:38] So all these countries who do that do not have great services medical services,
[43:45] they actually have sections. There are so many from Central Asian countries who
[43:51] actually come to India not for anything else because it's more expensive there, so
[43:54] they come here. So we cater in terms of medical services to many countries
[44:00] around in the region. So before anybody wakes up against up and says here,
[44:07] well boycott or this that, look at what the people want. Yeah,
[44:10] I think it's important that you, you know, said this because to
[44:14] all the troths, I am sure they must be listening. At least one
[44:16] of you must be listening. Hired at leasting but to get this sort of
[44:22] perspective, you have to go to the ground and you have to post such
[44:24] pictures and then, you know, amidst all this pulling and trolling and whatever,
[44:29] you have to come out with the on ground experience and reporting and information
[44:35] that you don't get sitting behind the screen and just typing nonsense that whatever,
[44:38] or asking people to boycott or saying, oh, now you see all these
[44:43] people who are anti establishment will be traveled to the Maldives. You see,
[44:47] that's that's not the idea exactly. So yeah, I think we'll end the
[44:52] episode here, and like you said, I think, you know, there's
[44:57] a lot of damage control which will be done eventually. But as you were
[45:01] saying about the national politics and domestic politics, do you think this matter will
[45:09] be inflated more or you think that we'll have to wait for the Muhizu government
[45:15] to be ousted so that this matter again. I don't think the Moursu government
[45:19] will be ousted assearch. They will serve the five year term, but the
[45:22] parliamentary elections will at least have the opposition have some say in the much list,
[45:27] which they already do. And when that happens, let's see how things
[45:30] span out politically. I think India is going to engage the movies with administration
[45:36] as it will the opposition. But more than that, it's the people to
[45:39] people connectivity. You'll see that engagement continue and that's not going to stop,
[45:45] not for anyone, because the Maldives is a part of the Indian Ocean.
[45:51] Yes, persift, Thank you, Gita. I think we'll end this episode
[45:55] on that note. It's very lovely chat. It was so interesting and so
[46:00] important for to hear somebody's inside who was on the ground. I'm emphasizing this
[46:05] a lot. Who was on the ground. And you know, because all
[46:07] this mainstream media and this ruckers, you get to miss the most important piece
[46:15] of information. I'm sure that you know this podcast is, which is just
[46:20] a very loud, strong message India will not seat space to China. That's
[46:25] that. That's that here. So to all the listeners who stay till the
[46:30] very end, let us know how you felt about this particular episode and all
[46:34] the episodes that you have probably listened in the past. The number is eight
[46:39] five, double eight nine, double six, double line six and the email
[46:43] idea is spots at the rate Inda today dot Com. Let us know and
[46:47] We'll be back next week with yet another episode on a different, yet very
[46:53] important topic. Stay tuned, Thank you,

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