# G20: Consensus Shows India's Diplomatic Clout, IMEC Says More To Come| Geeta's World, Ep 60

An episode of [Geeta's World](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1635741757), 12 Sep 2023, 41 min.

Audio: https://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/api.spreaker.com/download/episode/56776836/12_sep_23_gw_ep_60_mix_12_sept_128.mp3

Despite India's softened language regarding the Ukraine conflict in the Delhi declaration, both China and the US have hailed India's G20 summit as a 'success' and a 'positive signal.' How did India achieve unanimous consensus? At the G20 summit, a mega connectivity corridor, the IMEC or the India-Middle East-Europe Economic Corridor, was unveiled. It is seen as a response to countering China's Belt and Road Initiative. But there are accusations that China’s Belt and Road is a broad “debt trap” designed to take control of local infrastructure. How does the IMEC differ? In this episode, our host Anna Priyadarshini and foreign affairs editor at India Today, TV Today Network Geeta Mohan discuss India's week in the diplomatic sun. Listen in! Produced by Anna Priyadarshini Sound Mix by Kapil Dev Singh

## Transcript

[0:00] This is India Today podcasts. Despite India's softig language regarding the Ukraine conflict in
[0:09] the Delhi Declaration, both China and the US have hailed India's G twenty summit
[0:14] as a success and a positive signal. How did India achieve unanimous consensus?
[0:20] India was not only working multilaterally, they also worked bilaterally to ensure country positions
[0:25] changed. When country positions changed, then you wouldn't want to look like the
[0:29] only country opposing the Joint Communicate and making it a huge failure for India.
[0:34] And at the G twenty summit, a mega connectivity corridor, the IMEC or
[0:40] the India Middle East Europe Economic Corridor was unveiled. It is seen as a
[0:45] response to China's Belt and Road initiative, but there are accusations that China's Belt
[0:50] and Road is a broad debt trap designed to take control of local infrastructure.
[0:56] So how does the iMac differ? Then? iMac is a more looking progressive,
[1:00] inclusive project because the funders and funded is going to be a rare scene
[1:06] where you will not see Saudi Arabia who have been primary funders as fundies.
[1:12] Hello, I'm anna PRODESSIONI with India to Day TV's Foreign Affairs editor, Geta
[1:18] Mohan, where with Geta's astute and incisive crasp of world affairs, we delve
[1:23] into all that is urgent and pressing in world politics and comprehend how these developments
[1:29] in other countries could shape India's global ambitions of being a Wishwa Guru. Let's
[1:34] untravel Geta's world. So, Geta Hi, your week has undoubtedly been really
[1:42] eventful, especially with the D twenty actually the successful conclusion of the D twenty
[1:49] summit. The President absolutely, Anna, Hi, it was eventful, but
[1:57] also we've had sleepless nights in ensuring that our coverage are reporting is par excellence
[2:07] and exceeds all expectations. So I suppose we did quite all right and putting
[2:12] all aspects out, whether it is diplomacy, negotiations, color partnerships, all
[2:21] of that. And then of course, like you said, it was a
[2:23] successful G twenty summit with the Choit community, so big successful in India,
[2:30] but there have been certain disappointments for certain other countries and we'll be discussing that
[2:35] in detail. Yes, we will actually and I wanted to mention that after
[2:38] G twenty also your schedule didn't actually take a rest because you had to also
[2:44] cover mbases like Saudi Arabia's Prime minister and the grown perence mbases and Prime Minister
[2:50] more these meat, which is also a focal point of our discussion. But
[2:54] before that, like you mentioned, you know, you did not leave any
[2:58] stones unturned of covering the summit. But you know, guitar, like now
[3:04] it's the G twenty one summit because sorry, the G twenty one, actually
[3:07] the grouping is called because African Union is a part of it as well,
[3:12] but you know, the press concerns with the G twenty summit. I actually
[3:16] would like to begin by asking you this that And I remember, I think
[3:22] it was a Sunday night that I just opened Instagram and I saw your Instagram
[3:27] post that said the Premnister Moody was scheduled to visit the International Media Center at
[3:32] the event venue after concluding his all of his bilateral talks. So I when
[3:38] I saw the post, I thought that, okay, probably it might be
[3:40] like a confidence, like a press confidence. But then afterwards, like I
[3:46] saw a repose that that mentioned that he did not actually hold a press confidence,
[3:50] but it was just like he just came and he walked around an enclosed
[3:54] area waving to like a ceof you know, media persons and and cameras.
[4:00] So this concern, this the issue of media access actually, and I think
[4:05] you would be better, a better person to explain that that has been like
[4:11] a recurring concern, you know, because like me, there would be several
[4:15] persons who read reports, follow Instagram Twitter posts which also said that during US
[4:24] President Joe Biden's visit, there were claims by US government officials that the Indian
[4:28] government had denied their requests for increased media access, and so much so that
[4:33] Biden in fact had to go to Vietnam to tell the press freely that he
[4:38] discussed human rights, human rights violations, and freedom of the press with Prime
[4:43] Minister Moody. In fact, it took some extra questions as well after his
[4:47] mike was turned off. So you know, with all this in picture,
[4:53] I want to understand that what did the foreign media actually perceive of the G
[4:58] twenty in terms of Prime Minister moodies reluctance to feel questions from the media.
[5:03] Well, it is interesting because every leader, it's not just about the chair,
[5:09] every prime minister, president, almost all actually barring barring maybe the Chinese,
[5:15] even Russia's Gilabrov who's representing Russia. All of them helped press conferences to
[5:20] talk about how they kept their country's national interests forward and so on and so
[5:26] forth. If you remember the Bali Summit, Jokov, President of Indonesia,
[5:32] he himself had held a press conference on the conclusion successful conclusion of the Bali
[5:38] summit as well. Whilst it's strange the question about the Indian premiers very different,
[5:46] it's a larger context of him not holding press conferences irrespective of the issue.
[5:51] At least at the G twenty, the sure the chair of the Presidency
[5:58] being under India, the Indian External Affairs Minister, the SHERPA, the G
[6:03] twenty coordinated they all together held a press conference, and the Finance minister,
[6:10] so they all held a press conference and answered all the questions related to G
[6:15] twenty, the success, the dilution of the issues in Russia Ukraine war.
[6:20] So there was a press conference if you're asking me about the questions and how
[6:24] the negotiations took place. In fact, if anything, they were better equipped
[6:28] to answer the questions and negotiations because they were there handling it by themselves.
[6:33] It did require leadership intervention, and every time it required leadership intervention, Prime
[6:38] Minister Modi had stepped in, which is what External Affairs Minister Joshanker had said,
[6:43] having said that the problems and concerns that I was mentioning was not to
[6:47] do with just the fact that there was no press conference. Prime Minister Mover
[6:54] at the end of the summit did go and meet with those who served,
[6:57] those who were there facilitated the twin Summit, went and visited the Craft's bizarre
[7:01] and then finally of course went to the internet, came into the International Media
[7:05] Center where we all were, and he went and greeted and thanked everyone for
[7:11] the coverage as well. That, aside the Joint Communicate itself, is a
[7:15] concern because Ukraine has already come out and said that this outcome is nothing to
[7:20] be proud of. Exactly that the dilution of paragraphs on Russia Ukraine war,
[7:26] where there has been no condemnation, opens up the space for utmost criticism of
[7:34] what really happened and why the war is, why they did, Why did
[7:41] Russia and Ukraine have to go to war at all? If the G seven
[7:46] and the European Union and European countries are not going to stand by them,
[7:49] by the Ukrainians, so that certainly was a bigger disappointment than anything else.
[7:57] We have been speaking to various ministers and war and they all have been trying
[8:01] to say that well, this is this is not a failure. This in
[8:05] fact repeats and reiterates the UN Charter which talks about respect, territorial integrity,
[8:11] sovereignty. But that's really not enough. I actually wrote in an article that
[8:16] this is actually an RIC win, the win of the RIC bloc Russia,
[8:20] India, China. So while it is a win for India, it was
[8:24] also a win for Russia and China, whose leaders had not even turned up,
[8:28] so they did not skip. The leaders skip, but they did not
[8:31] boycott the meeting. They representatives. So there, if anything, Premier League
[8:35] Chang is actually the counterpart of Prime Minister More he is the Prime Minister of
[8:41] China, and Sergei Lavrov was there instead of putin the Foreign Minister, and
[8:48] they went back quite happy because they were the ones who objected to the tough
[8:52] language against Russia, and that tough language does not figure in the in the
[8:56] in the meeting, in the Giant Communicate, so that certainly is something that
[9:03] the West will have to answer for. Whether it is shop startedness or a
[9:09] long term gain is something we'll have to wait and see. But for now
[9:13] Ukraine will have to introspect and see how they're going to move forward from here
[9:18] on. Yeah, like now, I mean China and the US, both
[9:20] of them, they have called the summit a success, like a positive signal,
[9:26] So I mean, I don't think I haven't come across anything that says
[9:31] that, like a public statement, especially from the US. I mean,
[9:35] it seems like a compromise, right that they are signing to a joint agreement
[9:39] that did so little to keep pressure on Russia. So look at the look
[9:43] at the reports the next day, look at the question and answer, Look
[9:46] at the press briefings of most of these leaders after the Joint Community it was
[9:50] released, including President Biden and Vietnam. Everybody has been questioning the leaders on
[9:58] why this joy in communicate, what is it worth it or not? How
[10:03] much have they given in The Canadian Prime Minister actually went ahead and said that
[10:07] if it was only for me it would have been a different language. But
[10:11] it all depended on other leaders too, which means that they're India was not
[10:13] only working multilaterally, they also worked bilaterally to ensure country positions changed. When
[10:20] country positions changed, then you wouldn't want to look like the only country,
[10:24] you know, opposing the Joint Communicate and making it a huge failure for India.
[10:30] Everybody wants to be in the good books of India. Everybody wants to
[10:33] engage India. India is a huge market and so the bilateral conversations also were
[10:39] a huge reason why you saw a consensus building in this multilateral platform. So
[10:46] Ukraine is upset, but the West is not, I mean the US is
[10:50] not. So they're trying to justify it. Anna, they're trying to put
[10:52] up a brave front saying no, we did not sell Ukraine out. Yeah,
[10:56] okay, so it doesn't in any way, you know, compromise with
[11:01] the India's with India's diplomacy like it is for India. It is like a
[11:05] win win situation for India, for Russia and for China. China, yes,
[11:09] yes, because they're the ones who have now ended up looking like the
[11:13] stars and the leaders did not even have to come to India to negotiate.
[11:20] I mean, all the speculations or I mean all the summit, all this
[11:24] fearing that India might be the only country without any consensus. And how you
[11:31] remember in our previous podcast, I had said this that no matter what,
[11:35] there will be a joint communicate is what we were told, and that the
[11:39] officials were very confident about. True. Yes, that's what exactly truly transpired.
[11:46] So that was the G twenty summit, you know, the covering of
[11:50] the G twenty summit with the Joint community and the press concerns both. Also
[11:56] another major achievement was the inclusion of the African Union. Yes, that's a
[12:00] huge, huge achievement because that really speaks of the voice of the Global South,
[12:05] representation of the Global South now at the G twenty, So that again
[12:11] was a huge thing. There's some other very important things that happened on the
[12:13] sidelines of the G twenty, like the IMEC that we will be discussing in
[12:16] the second part. That's the India, Middle East Europe Corridor. And then
[12:22] of course the Biofuel Alliance that talks about how to tackle climate change and renewables
[12:28] is very important as also biofuels precisely, and I was coming to that,
[12:33] you know, with the MBS's visit I mean like a state visit, which
[12:37] is the second state was his second state visit twinn since February nineteen, twenty
[12:43] nineteen now, and there was several MOUs signed between the two which you would
[12:48] be able to explain it better. So the first thing that I wanted to
[12:54] concentrate on is the India, Saudi Arabia, the United States and the European
[12:58] Union unveiling a mega connectivity corridor spanning India, the Middle East and Europe.
[13:05] This initiative, which is the part which is a part of the Partnership for
[13:09] a Global Infrastructure Investment led by G seven Nations, is seen as a response
[13:16] to China's Belt and Road initiative, and it also aligns with President Biden's efforts
[13:22] to strengthen the G twenties influence to counter China's dominance and put In's dominance.
[13:31] So if you could briefly explain like what this project really entail and entails and
[13:35] will it be effectively you know, able to counter China's Belt and Road initiative.
[13:43] So it is a very significant corridor project, infrastructure project that on the
[13:50] Indian side, not many would have known was in the works for some time
[13:56] now and the man behind this intire vision idea was was not the Ministry of
[14:03] Foreign Affairs. It was actually or the minister, It was actually National Security
[14:07] Advisor Agidoble, working very closely with his American counterpart and with this with the
[14:13] Saudi government. They were the ones who are trying to look at and kind
[14:18] a project that will that will revolutionize how India can and West Asia, which
[14:26] is the Middle East, the can can be connected to Europe. And so
[14:31] finally they have announced it. It's an ambitious project. But also yes,
[14:35] like you rightly said, it is a project that will counter the Chinese bri
[14:41] The difference over here, Anna is this that while many say that, you
[14:46] know, the Chinese project is very different from this so called IMEC project,
[14:54] the fact is that when China does it does its bri it a whole soul
[15:00] only funds the entire project, which also means that it is a Chinese baby.
[15:07] The money is Chinese, and all the countries that are involved in a
[15:13] certain way indebted in terms of the infrastructure. So the debt diplomacy that is
[15:18] carried out because of China is not what you see in iMac. iMac is
[15:24] a more forward looking, progressive inclusive project because the funders and funded is going
[15:33] to be a rare scene where you will not see Saudi Arabia, who have
[15:37] been primary funders as fundies. You'll not see European nations who have primarily funded
[15:45] developing countries now being funded. The reason why you had World Bank President Ajaibanga
[15:52] standing beside these leaders when when the photo opportunity was there during during the photo
[16:00] session, he was also there, which means that they are actually looking at
[16:04] multilateral financial institutions to be a part of this entire project to be a part
[16:11] of the regional and global growth story. And this certainly is a growth story
[16:17] where you will be seeing connectivity through through the waters, through land, shipping,
[16:23] boats, road rail all of that makeup for this iMac project and goods
[16:33] being sent from one end to the other end. With Greece becoming the door
[16:38] to Europe, is certainly going to be a very important project. It has
[16:44] been announced. Let's see how the work begins and how it starts. It's
[16:48] not like they do not have connectivity already. It's about signing packs to ensure
[16:52] that this connectivity where these waterways are. The ship's already run in these waterways.
[17:00] There are already there's already infrastructure in every country is connected through a pat
[17:04] which allows them easy mobility of goods. Okay, okay, got it.
[17:10] You know, like India and talking about India and Saudi relations, they sort
[17:14] of enjoy like really cordial and friendly relations, reflecting the centuries old economic and
[17:19] socio socio cultural ties. And Saudi Arabia is India's fourth largest trading partner.
[17:27] More than eighteen percent of india screwed oil imports are sourced from Saudi Arabia.
[17:32] And just to give some figures, during financially or twenty twenty two April to
[17:37] December, the bilattle trade between the two countries was valued at twenty nine point
[17:41] two eight billion dollars close to thirty billion dollars. But what I was wondering
[17:48] is that this strengthening of relations between the two countries also comes amid saudiast growing
[17:53] relations with China, and we've discussed this in our previous podcast episodes as well.
[18:00] Like China, after all, it was the country that had broken a
[18:03] deal between Saudi and Iran. So in terms of like Southeast diplomacy, then
[18:08] considering India and China, like arch trivers, which of the two countries,
[18:14] you know, places higher in its diplomacy index. Well, you're just seeing
[18:18] India, China, talk about India, China and America America being the closest
[18:22] strategic partner of Soudi Arebia for decades. Now what you're seeing is starting off
[18:30] assertion by Southi Arabia of their strategic economy and in a way they have thrown
[18:37] off the American yoke and are demanding a place in the global arena. Look
[18:44] at how Soudi Arabia did not and we've discussed this earlier in one of our
[18:48] podcasts as well. Anna, how when Saudi Arabia was asked to increase output
[18:52] because America had promised its European friends oil and gas, Saudi refused. They
[19:00] do not want to look like sorry, but it was kind of an embarrassment
[19:03] for the Bible absolute place. And they're actually, after sanctioning a country for
[19:10] decades, had to go and have a conversation with Venezuela yesterday an enemy this
[19:17] state and at that state today you're having a conversation. So it's a matter
[19:21] of convenience for America. Then look at Venezuela because they needed oil and they're
[19:26] trying to justify that as well. So Soudi Arabia now has become very bigger
[19:33] than just a partner nation to any country they are engaging. The new Prime
[19:41] Minister and the Crown Prince of South Arabia, Mahmad Din Salman, has been
[19:45] engaging the Chinese, India, America. You can call them foes enemies,
[19:53] but to Soudi Arabia, they're all strategic partners. So in a way,
[20:00] right now, in today's scenario, Saudi Arabia has become a very important country
[20:06] in how strategic decisions are being taken globally. And earlier it used to be
[20:11] because of their their strength in having having the oil economy under them. Today
[20:21] it's not just about the oil economy. It's about the money. It's about
[20:25] how they're placing themselves where they're placing themselves. Look at where all they're trying
[20:32] to go, invest and build. So MBAs is involved in nation building and
[20:37] building a nation that will have its stamp on the global map as well.
[20:41] He's doing both at the same time. Nation building, I say, is
[20:44] because they are opening up, they're liberalizing their country. They're liberalizing their country
[20:49] for women as well. Many say its cosmetic. But if a woman gets
[20:55] up and says, every day, I'm waking up to a new freedom,
[20:56] even if it is very gradual, slow, smallest steps, they're still in
[21:03] the right direction rather than being regressive as the as the as Afghanistan has gone
[21:08] with the Taliban, where they had won so many freedoms and suddenly it's all
[21:14] gone back to the old, to the dark ages. So very important for
[21:21] Southi Arabian Iran, so for Suthi Arabian India, strengthening of ties are very
[21:26] important in their both strategic partners with a special place, but also it is
[21:32] your door to the Islamic world, a world that looks at India as a
[21:37] nation in in certain ways that this administration is discriminatory, that they're discriminating,
[21:45] so on and so forth. But when you're engaging the most important country in
[21:52] the Islamic world and our friends with Iran as well, and have strategic partnership
[21:56] with Yue, opening up ties with Omar and Kuwait to no end. When
[22:02] you're doing all of that and with Cuther, When you're doing all of that,
[22:06] Anna then looking at how you're building and you're building in your building relations
[22:14] not just through diplomacy or talk, but through real ground work, an infrastructure
[22:22] project binds you. It'll tie these countries and these nations. Look, it's
[22:26] very interesting that the Italian Prime Minister when she met with the Chinese Premier,
[22:33] Premier Leachang, she actually told him that we are reconsidering BRI because they all
[22:41] want to be on board the IMEC. So that's the first step where if
[22:45] countries start telling China that they don't want to be a part of and nobody's
[22:49] wishing that China not be successful or not be able to do what they want
[22:53] to do, but not in an autocratic manner, not in a manner where
[22:57] they're riling nations not caring about other countries. Territorial integrity and sovereignty. A
[23:03] case in point is the Speck project which runs through pok disputed territory Pakistan Occupied
[23:11] Kashmir. And I say disputed not because we have any doubt that it is
[23:15] a part of Indian territory. I say disputed in China's eyes. It should
[23:19] have been disputed territory. In China's eyes, it should have been a territory
[23:23] that is not resolved. And how are you then running your projects through that?
[23:29] Through that territory. So just saying that not being deaft enough and in
[23:34] the long run losing out on clear partners who are on a growth trajectory and
[23:41] could have done better by being friends rather than being forced, which is what
[23:45] we are moving in the direction of. We're moving towards towards more acrimony.
[23:53] But at the end of the day, if you are, if you are,
[23:57] if you have common cause. In many areas look and multilateral platforms,
[24:02] China and India have more common ground than India does with other countries. Take
[24:07] for example, Russia the Russia Ukraine War. India wanted a solution, India
[24:12] allowed the dilution. China insisted on dilution. Russia stood firm on the dilution,
[24:19] and at the end of the day, the dilution happened. On the
[24:22] climate change front, China stood its grout on climate change. India wanted the
[24:27] very same thing on climate change that the developed nations look at and consider the
[24:34] concerns of the developing world, Saudi Arabia's concerns on fossil fuel dependency and that
[24:41] they will still require more time. They're all countries that were looking for and
[24:45] looking out for each other and they ended up ensuring that the text that goes
[24:51] into the joint community serves their national interests and India and Saudi Arabia on the
[24:56] same page and climate to ensure that Saudi Area where gets that time is understanding
[25:03] is partnership is looking towards the future. So and then the state visit of
[25:08] a MBS which concluded again with a successful signing of various pacts, reaffirming ties
[25:18] between the two countries and ensuring that you know, they move forward on various
[25:22] trants when it comes to a review by the leaders, including chairing the co
[25:26] chairing the first Strategic Partnership Council exactly. And you mentioned about India's growing influence
[25:33] in the Middle East when I was like sort of reading one article on the
[25:38] same lines as well that said that the United States may no longer be the
[25:42] undisputed big dog in the region in the middle in the Middle East, but
[25:48] as long as India expands its presence in the Middle East, neither Russia nor
[25:52] China can assume that rule. You know, like you said that India Israel
[25:56] relations, they stand out as a developed partnership, especially in high tech and
[26:03] defense sectors. Saudi Arabia of course we've mentioned this. And besides that,
[26:08] like, India also boasts strong relations with the UA with Egypt, although currently
[26:14] like modest, but it's steadily gaining that momentum. So this definitely underscores India's
[26:21] growing influence and partnerships in the Middle East. Like and that that article also
[26:26] said that like I mean the journalist I'm forgetting his name, but he had
[26:30] mentioned it was in Foreign Policy that he said that ten years before, when
[26:34] he had traveled to Saudi Arabia and the Middle East, he said that he
[26:37] did not say this much of India's influence in the region, but ten years
[26:41] later he can surely say this that India has been able to assert its influence
[26:48] in the region very prominently. That is this growth toritory of India. India
[26:53] has grown in the past decade and a half and now the country's reaping the
[27:00] benefits of engaging engaging West Asia. It's not like India was not engaging West
[27:06] Asia, but yes, it has grown. Manifold. One person who actually
[27:11] ensured that West Asia, that is the Middle East, is engaged, not
[27:15] just engaged with, but there's a strategic point of view of having them on
[27:19] India side is a national security advisor, Gi Dobal. It was Doble who
[27:27] planned the entire strategic you know, assertiveness, and not just the assertion,
[27:33] but the importance of having a policy towards countries like Saudi Arabia and the United
[27:38] Arab Emirates. And look at how India's reaping the benefits of that engagement.
[27:45] We've had extraditions in a very very speedy manner that we've never seen before.
[27:52] We've had wanted criminals being turned in like never before. This is a huge
[27:59] achievement. And yes, now we're looking at Saudi Arabia and India moving towards
[28:04] towards the place where it's not just strategic but also majorly economic, where the
[28:11] lopsided trade between India and Saudi Arabia could be tilted to India's advantage maybe in
[28:18] the future. Is because both countries are talking renewables, both talking people,
[28:23] Both countries are talking services, manufacturing, so on and so forth. With
[28:29] this enhancement of invest India and investment of and investing in Saudi Arabia is going
[28:37] to be that framework which has now been now been signed as a pact,
[28:44] is very very important. Do you have another pact A memorandom of understanding between
[28:51] eggs In Bank and eggs In Bank of India, the Saudi Exim Bank and
[28:53] ex Bank Bank of India. You have a memorandom of understanding understanding for cooperation
[29:00] in the technical field and establishment of the Small and Medium Enterprises Bank between si
[29:07] IDBI and SIME Bank of Saudi Arabia. You're looking at in the on the
[29:11] agriculture front, desalination plant between National Institute of Technology and the Sali and Water
[29:19] Conversion Corporation of Saudi Arabia. So look at the packs. They're so important,
[29:25] so meaningful and so timely for both countries to engage in. Apart from
[29:32] the fact that there is an m in the field of energy and in the
[29:34] field of communication. So all aspects were covered in the bilateral meeting that took
[29:40] place between Prime Minister Modi and Prime Minister Mohammed bin Salman who's the Crown Prince
[29:47] as well. And they're also looking forward to the coach after having co chaired
[29:52] the Strategic Partnership Council, looking forward to two aspects, the political defense aspect
[29:57] as well as the investment and trade aspect and in the future looking to local
[30:06] resources. Between you know, maximizing use of local resources, becoming efficient in
[30:12] terms of energy supplies, but also wanting to become a very important part of
[30:17] the resilience supply change that the world today has been talking about after COVID nineteen
[30:22] to counter China, while Saudi Arabia has no intentions of countering a country or
[30:27] the other because they do not have those compulsions for them, the fact that
[30:32] there are oil suppliers, their vision, their view is very different. But
[30:38] tackling climate change and being intent on tackling climate change is something that is actually
[30:45] a welcome news coming from a country because of which has been much of fossil
[30:51] fuel pollution and contamination. Yeah. Lastly, Gata, you know, before
[30:57] we put an end to this conversation, I had a doubt that I forgot
[31:02] to ask you when we were discussing the initiative between India, Saudi Arabia,
[31:07] US and Europe about the Mega Connectivity Corridor, and you mentioned Saudi and US's
[31:14] relationship. The strange relationships are a small little doubt. So in terms of
[31:18] like, you know, with this initiative in place, we see both US
[31:22] and Saudi Arabia that has sort of you know, their relationship has seen a
[31:27] sort of a dip with the entire open decision, Saudi Arabia not budging and
[31:33] this being an embarrassment for the Bagan administration. So now with this initiative that
[31:38] places both these countries US and Saudia under the same umbrella, do you think
[31:44] in any way these strange relations does this rift also come in its way in
[31:52] the initiative? So well, Saudi Arabian America have no rift whatsoever. That's
[31:57] a bond that is not going to fall apart anytime soon. It's a very
[32:02] strong relationship. However, the Jamal Khashoggi incident and the trials that were that
[32:10] were underway in in America did put strains in ties between REAL and DC,
[32:19] and that certainly is the reason why we see Saudi Arabia acting on its own,
[32:25] MBS not listening to America, but also MBS is trying to come out
[32:30] to become a bigger leader than just listening to America and following America's policies.
[32:36] How America views the world to be. They are where they're insistent that they
[32:44] are going to now change tact and change how the world is viewed through the
[32:49] prism of the Middle East of West Asia and decide for themselves. The reason
[32:53] why they're engaging everybody. But if you talk about strategic partnership, where do
[32:59] all the weapons come from, Where do all the defense technology come from,
[33:04] Where does the defense technology come from? Where do all the training programs take
[33:09] place? That is historical. It's almost like asking whether if India will ever
[33:15] leave Russia. The historicity of how India and Russia works and cannot give up
[33:20] on Russia anytime soon is how US and Saudi Arabia work. So no animosity
[33:25] there. In fact, if anything, they're planning very very big things to
[33:30] counter China, and Saudi Arabia is on board, not because they want to
[33:34] count to China because they would want to be on board such important, ambitious
[33:37] infrastructure projects. But tomorrow, if they have to work with China and with
[33:42] Russia and something else, they will, But it all depends. It's not
[33:45] the best relationship with Russia and China. Given that in the West Asian world,
[33:52] in the Arab world, if you see any of the conflicts that have
[33:55] taken place, the conflicts that have taken place in in Sia countries like Syria,
[34:01] you know, look at Lebanon, look at Libya, all these countries.
[34:07] How how did America manage to to fight these wars in these conflicts?
[34:15] Who was who was the support base? Where was the support based and who
[34:20] was supporting Syria, then Russian China? But then who was supporting Saudi Arabia
[34:23] and others and the and the factions that want USAD out. It is Saudi
[34:29] Arabia America. It was through TACIT support and you could see it quite out
[34:35] in the open on how which side, which country was taking which side.
[34:38] So they're on that front in these wars, you will still see that faction.
[34:45] What has changed now in the in the Middle East, in West Asia
[34:49] is the fact that China has become an important piece broker. The fact that
[34:53] they managed to get what America couldn't in so many decades. A piece deal
[35:00] between Saudi Arabia and Iran is unprecedented. So you're trying to have a JCPUA
[35:07] on the Iran nuclear deal between between a few countries America and Iran. Then
[35:15] after Trump comes in, he pulls out of the jcpu it. Then once
[35:19] Biden comes in, they're still having a conversation to get back in. But
[35:23] here comes China and sweeps and is brokering a piece deal between Saudi Arabia and
[35:29] Iran. So if you see the dynamics of it, Saudi Arabia will play
[35:35] to its strength and focus on its national interest. If that means engaging and
[35:40] partnering with America, it will. If that means which includes India, but
[35:45] also if that also means having great ties with China, it will. Today.
[35:51] If you want to have an influence in Afghanistan, being friends with China,
[35:54] being friends with Pakistan is a good thing. Saudi Arabia is great friends
[36:00] Pakistan. In fact, somebody had floated a rumor that he might go to
[36:02] Pakistan on this visit. That was never to happen. And you know,
[36:07] then there are others in India, some of the media channels and agencies who
[36:12] reported big snub to Pakistan. There is no snub because it was never to
[36:15] happen. Now you float a story, then you say that you know it
[36:20] did not happen and there's a huge snap to Pakistan. That's not how it
[36:22] works. So tomorrow there is going to be a standalone visit of MBS to
[36:27] Pakistan. Of course there will be, but not when there is a caretaker
[36:30] government. There will be after elections, when there's a proper government, and
[36:34] when he goes there, then what will you say that will be a standalone
[36:37] visit. What will you say then or not a snub or de hyphenation That
[36:42] deep hyphenation happened long ago. Pakistan also does not want hyphenations. So I'm
[36:47] telling you get I'm definitely sending this episode to my father because last night only,
[36:52] like we always have a call at night, and last night only he
[36:57] said, okay, you're discussing Saudi visit. Morea said yeah, and then
[37:00] he said, but Pakistan, Nathola like they were waiting for MBS top not
[37:07] at all joke. So thanks for you know, you say this that he's
[37:15] going to come and then you say this snub is like really, yeah,
[37:19] I mean one does not need to do that. He's come here, he
[37:22] will go back and when there's a government and when there's a proper when this
[37:27] then then it is safe, secure, all right to travel. He'll travel.
[37:31] Pakistan is very important for Saudi Arabia. So who came to Pakistan's rescue
[37:37] during the recent financial crisis Saudi Arabia, Yeah, exactly. He told Saudi
[37:42] Arabia, don't do it. And even they would if somebody would have said
[37:45] it would have been to their disadvantage because they would have still helped. True,
[37:50] and the o C stance has always been clear in terms of how that's
[37:53] different. That has nothing to do with only because they love Pakistan they do
[37:57] it. No, it has to do with the call of Kishmir, cause
[38:00] of Palestine, cause of all these Muslim parts of the world where they think
[38:07] they according to them with what they see that there is injustice and there needs
[38:12] to be justice, fair play, choice, Yeah, exactly, And that
[38:15] is why I mean Sali Arabia did not come to the G twenty ministerial meeting
[38:21] here that was in Kashmir, that was in Machina. So yeah. Also
[38:24] because it was a tourism thing, they were smart enough to send some private,
[38:30] private representatives from the private tourism industry, but there was no government representation.
[38:36] They are the faces at OIIC. How can they change their stance and
[38:43] answer to those Muslims who would say, well you are you are the custodians
[38:49] of the holy mosques in Maka and Medina and you're not going to pay,
[38:53] you know, heat to our woes. Hows that allowed? So they have
[38:59] to keep their place in the Muslim world as well. Intact. Yes,
[39:04] okay, so thank you, Gita. I think that was a very interesting
[39:07] conversation about something that has been been the talk of the town for quite some
[39:12] days now and even after it's been concluded the g twenty summoned and the Saudi
[39:16] meet. So hope all of our listeners, So if they had any querries
[39:22] like I did, those queries gods resolved, and if it didn't, send
[39:28] in your questions. The number you can send it to is eight five,
[39:30] double eight nine, double six, double line six and the email address is
[39:35] spots at the rate inna today dot com. So do send in your feedback,
[39:38] your queries, whatever you want to and we'll make sure that we also
[39:43] include this include your feedback in our episodes. And by the way, Guitar,
[39:47] this was our sixtieth episode, so oh yeahbar YouTube. But we still
[39:53] have to go out and put out these pictures for the world to see and
[39:58] know that some Milt how ticket Yes, yes, I'm just waiting for you
[40:04] to come. Yeah, okay, thank you so much, thanks, and
[40:08] thank you for to our listeners for listening in. Do right to us.
[40:14] It's always it's your feedback is precious. Yes, definitely thank you, Bye bye,

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