# Israel-Hamas War: China's Peace Talks With Arab Nations An Indictment Of US? | Geeta's World, Ep 69

An episode of [Geeta's World](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1635741757), 21 Nov 2023, 37 min.

Audio: https://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/api.spreaker.com/download/episode/57749296/21_nov_23_gw_ep_69_128.mp3

Distinguished delegations from Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordan, and Palestine, alongside Indonesia's foreign minister, convened in Beijing for a two-day middle east summit hosted by the Chinese government on November 20 But is there a reason why an important and significant player like Iran gave it a miss? And despite attempts, which include threats from Iran or Hezbollah, and persistent diplomatic efforts from the United States, and Arab countries such as Saudi Arabia, the Israeli aggression in the region continues unabated. So what more can China offer? Can they add any skin in the game? Listen in! Produced by Anna Priyadarshini Sound Mix by Nitin Rawat

## Transcript

[0:00] This is in Ya Today podcasts. Distinguished delegations from Saudi Arabia, Egypt,
[0:09] Jordan and Palestine, alongside Indonesia's Foreign Minister, convened in Beijing for a two
[0:15] day Middle East summit hosted by the Chinese government on twentieth of November. But
[0:20] is there a reason why an important and significant player like Iran gave this summit
[0:26] a miss? See, there are divergent fews, the houses not in order
[0:30] when it comes to speaking in one voice. Within the Arab world itself.
[0:33] Iran has been in touch with and engaged with China and Russia for the longest,
[0:38] whether it is the issue of Syria, Yemen, or for that matter,
[0:43] now the issue of resolving the Gaza crisis. But there is rarely Aggression
[0:49] in the region continues unabated. So what more can China offer as the mediator?
[0:54] Can they really add any skin in the game? Well? Absolutely,
[0:58] don't forget that China is a permanent member of the United Nations Security Council and
[1:03] wields a lot of influence when it comes to the conversations that are happening at
[1:08] the World body. Hello and welcome. This is the sixty ninth episode of
[1:14] Guita's world. And we are recording this with kind of a heavy heart,
[1:19] Guita, because you know, we had like a very it's still sinking in
[1:25] actually we're talking about Inda's defeat in the World Cup. We had levied so
[1:30] much of interest and hope and and trust and but yeah, it's still is
[1:36] is very intact. But we couldn't. We couldn't win the Cup. So
[1:42] that is kind of an emotional uggage that I'm carrying with this while I'm recording
[1:48] this episode. But nevertheless, did you watch the match, like was it
[1:53] on TV or did you like go to end the bar to watch it?
[1:56] No? No, no, no, I was very much in TELEI because
[2:00] the Australians we had to prepare for the two plus two, the India Australia
[2:05] two plus two was to take place just the very next day, which was
[2:08] yesterday. Yes, and they came to the table quite leful. You saw
[2:15] the initial statements. Yeah, and so no, I we And anyway,
[2:20] I'm not much I'm not an avid cricket watcher, but World Cup is something
[2:25] that nobody really misses and so yeah, when the family is sitting and watching
[2:30] the match, you just cannot miss it. Also, it was a supreme
[2:34] form of cricket that on display by Australia. You have to give it to
[2:38] them. Yeah, no, yeah, I mean if we, you know,
[2:42] were to talk about that particular match, we would actually go on for
[2:45] us. But unfortunately that is not the topic of discussion this time around.
[2:51] Like you said, the two plus two meeting between India and Australia, that
[2:55] was also we were thinking of doing an episode on. But simultaneously, uh,
[3:01] you know, the Israel Hamas War. The conflict is still going on,
[3:06] and there was an important development in terms of like China's role here because
[3:12] there was a two day Mid Middle East summit that was hosted by the Chinese
[3:15] government that was yesterday but it's still ongoing and they were like distinguished you know,
[3:21] delegations from Saudi Arabia, a Ja, Jordan and Palestine alongside Indonesia's foreign
[3:27] minister who convened in Beijing. And China has initiated the summit. So we
[3:34] thought of, you know, uh, framing our discussion around this, and
[3:38] we have actually talked about China's role as a peace maker in one of our
[3:44] previous episodes when we were discussing the the the historic Iran Saudi deal and this
[3:52] time around, also this peace maker role that China is assuming is coming to
[3:55] the free So we'll focus on that and just to you know, give a
[4:00] glimpse of how exactly the war is looking right now. So the conflict in
[4:06] Gaza is still persisting. It's over fort may days now. The Gaza Health
[4:12] Ministry has reported at more than thirteen thousand individuals, which include around fifty five
[4:16] hundred children, thirty five hundred women. They have lost lives and despite international
[4:23] calls for a cease fire, Tel Aviv and is supporting nations have rejected such
[4:27] a place. So now focusing on China's role as a mediator here, what
[4:32] exactly can China, you know, add to this game or can it actually
[4:36] put any skin in the game. First guitar that you know. The Saudi
[4:42] point minister Prince Fezil Been Far al Saud. He said that the representatives of
[4:47] Islamic and Arab countries, they have arrived in Beijing to send a very clear
[4:53] signal. And what this clear signal was that we must immediately, you know,
[4:57] stop the fighting and the killer and we must immediately delivered humanitarian supplies to
[5:02] Gaza. So we'll talk about how China is involved and what this clear signal
[5:06] is. But the first question that popped up, that popped in my head
[5:12] was that why did we see only Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordan, Palestine,
[5:18] Cutter, you know, among all Arab countries go for this meeting,
[5:23] Like, is there a reason why an important player like Iran did not?
[5:29] So is there a reason to read more into it? Well, one is
[5:32] that see there are divergent fews. The house is not in order when it
[5:38] comes to speaking in one voice within the Arab world itself. Yeah, and
[5:43] Iran has been in touch with and engaged with China and Russia for the longest,
[5:47] whether it is the issue of Syria, Yemen, or for that matter,
[5:53] now the issue of resolving the Gaza crisis. Iran in itself is a
[5:59] separate their ideas, their focus on solution is very different from the rest of
[6:04] the Arab world. But the Arab world now also realizes and recognizes that it
[6:10] cannot just be a negotiation and a seeking of solution engaging just the West.
[6:18] So this delegation has been put forth. It's a delegation of about seven members
[6:26] who were in China. Cut It again was missing because they're in negotiations.
[6:30] But what we are given to understand, and an important piece of news that
[6:33] we're getting, Anna, is that this seven member delegation that is decided by
[6:39] the Arab and Islamic countries Indria during the Arab Islamic Summit, they will be
[6:44] traveling to P five nations and to India. So they're doing China. They
[6:48] will be in Moscow today. We do not know whether the Cuther Foreign Minister
[6:53] will be able to join them, and then they will go to other countries,
[6:57] although date for New Delhi has not been decided it yet. But when
[7:01] they come, they will be engaging the foreign Minister in the external first minister
[7:06] doctor J. Shanker, and then they're also looking to go to London,
[7:10] to Paris and then maybe to DC. So this is not just an engagement
[7:15] of engaging the East but also the West. But the fact that they're now
[7:20] looking at East and looking at China in itself is a big story. Why
[7:28] do I say that is because not so long ago, Anna, you and
[7:31] I were discussing China playing the role of a mediator, a peacemaker in the
[7:38] region. Broken the deal between Saudi Arabia and Iran, A peace deal,
[7:44] which in itself was historic. Normalization of ties between Saudi Arabia and Iran was
[7:50] essential for peace and stability in the region. And now we're looking at these
[7:58] major countries going to Beijing, engaging the leadership there. They met with Wogi,
[8:03] their counterpart, because this is a foreign minister's delegation, and and they're
[8:11] looking at how China can one either influence or become a peacemaker a broker in
[8:18] this very tense situation where like you said, Iran has a major role to
[8:24] play and if there is a country that can really influence Iran, it is
[8:30] China. So China Russia become very important at this juncture. From Beijing,
[8:35] the ministers or the delegation will be going to Moscow or are in Moscow today
[8:39] and from here on they will then plan their travel new delays on the cards,
[8:46] is what we're being told. But when we were arrived here, yes,
[8:50] so was it like decided, was it like a part of their itinery
[8:54] before itself, or was it like a last minute thing that okay, will
[9:00] so it doesn't seem last minute because I was speaking to a source and he
[9:03] said that, well, uh, the delegation is going to go to these
[9:07] countries and that was decided. B five was decided. India was added and
[9:13] there could be some more countries that will be added in the in in due
[9:16] course of time. But but the delegation and the plan for travel was something
[9:22] that was set. What is not set are the dates because they do not
[9:26] know the availability of the foreign minister of that country. Since this is a
[9:31] foreign minister's delegation, UH, they would require that the host country have the
[9:37] foreign minister of that country available for meetings. So a date or time has
[9:46] not been announced for meeting with external fast Minister of India. But they meet.
[9:50] They met Wogi yesterday, they're meeting Sergei Lavrov today, and if you
[9:54] see the entire mix, the fact that they're looking at P five and India
[10:00] in their first leg in itself goes to show the growing importance of India.
[10:03] A unique position that India holds with with with the ties it has not just
[10:09] with Israel but also with Palestine. Prime Minister Modi had spoken to the Israeli
[10:16] Prime Minister and then later spoke with the Palestinian President Mahmoudapas Or Abumazen as well.
[10:24] So uniquely it's like a concerted attempt by I mean to gather and mobilize
[10:31] the entire international community, and not just like you know, engage is in
[10:35] isolation with China, as was being projected that. Okay, yeah, not
[10:41] really, not really so even if they're going to other countries a little later,
[10:45] because they know that, you know, these countries are engaged. They
[10:48] have These are the countries where the leadership actually traveled to Tel Aviv to Israel,
[10:52] and they have a very strong position that they've taken. And then you
[10:56] have China and Israel, who have also condemned the attack but also are steadfastly
[11:01] standing with Palestine. So the Arab world would want to engage them as well
[11:07] to ensure that there is some movement on a humanitarian pause or a seaspire to
[11:13] ensure that humanitarian aid enters Gaza. Now, the problem over here is that
[11:20] a lot of humanitarian aid is being pledged, is being sent, but it
[11:24] is not reaching Gaza. It's only reaching Egypt. It has not gone through
[11:28] Rapha crossing. There are only a certain number of trucks that are being allowed
[11:35] to enter Gaza, which is starkly inadequate when it comes to the requirements within
[11:43] Gaza, not just of basic necessities suggest food, portable water, basic medical
[11:50] facilities, but also serious medical equipments that are required in hospitals. Hospitals that
[11:58] have been bombarded, there are a lot of patients who'd acquire a lot of
[12:05] system medical assistance and for that the equipments that are required that's scarce. We
[12:13] medical personnel have become scarce themselves. So Gaza is going through a situation that
[12:18] is unimaginable. And in such a scenario, what the Arab world right now
[12:24] is looking at is an immediacyase fire or a longer pause for aid to reach
[12:31] and for patients to be able to get out of Gaza. There are few
[12:35] who are who were able to leave. There are some children who prematurely broadborn
[12:41] children who were taken out of Gaza and are in Egypt. So a lot
[12:46] of work is being done by Egypt. Egypt has become one of the most
[12:50] important players, so are the other neighboring countries. But when it comes to
[12:56] assistance, when it comes to medical aid reaching Gaza, when it comes to
[13:01] engaging UH the the international community, this is the delegation that has been set
[13:07] up. They were in China, China becomes an important player right now,
[13:11] and talking about China itself with certain doubts as in like Beijing is you know,
[13:16] possessing itself as a potential mediator. But I wanted to understand that will
[13:22] China actually go beyond you know, diplomatic efforts and contribute you know, materially,
[13:28] financially or politically to address such a complex situation like is China actually prepared
[13:35] to commit those resources and exert such a significant influence? Well? Absolutely,
[13:41] okay, in what way? Because if you see, you know, whenever
[13:46] when the war started, also, there was so much of international efforts to
[13:50] influence Israel's action, but they have proven inactive. There were threats from Iran,
[13:56] Hezbola, there were diplomatic attempts from the US, the Arab countries,
[14:01] but there was sort of you know, this aggression still persists. So in
[14:05] what exactly China can actually offer to this entire scenario, you see, Ana,
[14:11] the fact that China is being engaged by the Arab world goes to show
[14:16] the importance the Arab world is attaching to Beijing, or the Arab Muslim world
[14:20] is attaching to Beijing. Given that we have also the Indonesian Foreign minister who's
[14:24] traveling with Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordan, Palestine and the OIC General Secretary.
[14:30] Secondly, don't forget that China is a permanent member of the United Nations
[14:35] Security Council and wields a lot of influence when it comes to the conversations that
[14:41] are happening at the world body. Also, the geopolitical influence, the growing
[14:46] geopolitical influence of China cannot really be ignored at this point in time, and
[14:50] at this juncture, it has not just become a peace broker or a peace
[14:56] maker when it comes to countries like Saudi Arabian era, it is going to
[15:01] send or pledge a lot of assistance. You see a lot of countries.
[15:05] The Jordanian Foreign Minister had a very telling statement that he made, and when
[15:11] he was saying that, he did not mean that they're not standing with or
[15:15] they don't stand with Palestine. But what he was trying to say is that
[15:18] after the destruction, don't expect Jordan to pick up the pieces, but to
[15:24] clean up your mess. So the statement was that if you continue to do
[15:30] what you're doing in Gaza, if you continue, if this continues, then
[15:33] later don't expect us to come up and clean clean your mess. We will
[15:39] not be involved in Gaza. Whatever happens, how it happens, who controls
[15:43] Gaza will be will not be our concern. Why because you're not listening to
[15:48] us when we are saying that this is not this is not the solution to
[15:52] this problem. So if you're not going to make us part of the solution,
[15:56] then don't make us part of the problem. Because once Gaza's he said,
[16:02] what is left of Gaza? What will be left of Gaza if this
[16:06] continues? And uh, and things are looking quite dire and bad within Gaza.
[16:11] So these ministers are going now in all what what you'd call this delegation
[16:18] is also a last ditch effort anna by the Muslim Arab world to reach out
[16:25] to anyone they can to stop what is happening. Uh. That does not
[16:30] mean that they support the Hamas. In fact, if anything, most of
[16:33] these players are not Hamas supporters. But to have to to to have this
[16:41] unabated violence upon civilians of Gaza is unacceptable to them. And that and who's
[16:49] going to bear the brunt of displacement? And why should Palestinians be displaced from
[16:56] Gaza? Uh, they're they're thinking and it's not my thinking. They're thinking
[17:00] is that if there's more displacement and there are more refugees that go into bordering
[17:06] countries is Jordan, Lebanon or Egypt, then you will have more or they
[17:12] will use up more land. Now Israel says that we don't want the land.
[17:18] We will clear it and then an international organization should take over Gaza,
[17:22] because otherwise, I asked, will return. I'm sorry. That's the reason
[17:26] why they should be talking about a two state solution, not about solution for
[17:32] Gaza. They're nobody to talk about a solution for Gaza. They should be
[17:36] talking about a two state solution. When Palestine has declared a state, they
[17:40] will decide who their government should be. Nobody else should Did Palestine or did
[17:45] the international community come out and tell Israel that you are becoming far right,
[17:49] which is a problem for Palestine, that you are the reason why there's there's
[17:53] so much of anger within and amongst Palestinians. Did they decide for them that
[18:00] Bengever should not be at such an extreme far right person should not be part
[18:03] of the government. Nobody decides for the other nation. I'll give you an
[18:07] example from South Asia. We have the biggest problem of terrorism emanating from Pakistan,
[18:11] or have had till the passed, right, But did we ever go
[18:15] around telling Pakistan that this is not the government you should have or army should
[18:21] not be controlling the country. The country they do what they want to because
[18:26] it's a sovereign state. The problem over here is that because Palestine is not
[18:30] a sovereign state, because nobody accordited the respect and honor of being called a
[18:36] sovereign state or giving them a status of a sovereign state is the reason why
[18:41] anybody can come and say who should be ruling who should not be? I
[18:45] mean, these are conversations that should be had at the highest level to decide
[18:51] and bring an end to this once and for all. The end of Hamas
[18:53] is not the end of the problem. The end of this uncertainty of state
[19:00] for Palestine is the real problem. Give them statehood, create boundaries and borders,
[19:07] go back to the erstwhile Palestine and Israel map, and we'll see whether
[19:11] that Israel agrees to it, and we'll see where there if Palestine then will
[19:15] disagree to it. Because without a true state solution, there is no other
[19:21] way out. So now is China. Absolutely, China Russia have always been
[19:29] backing this, but not Russia. China particularly always been backing this because so
[19:36] has the world, including India, that there is no other solution apart from
[19:41] a true state solution. So now it is for the international community to think.
[19:47] And because of the failings of the international community, you're seeing this delegation
[19:51] now that has gone and reached out to Beijing, and now we'll be reaching
[19:55] out to Moscow, and then we'll be going to other countries, including India,
[20:00] which is not a member of the Security councils permanent member of the Security
[20:03] Council. It actually in a way increases or lifts india stature in becoming one
[20:12] of the key players in such global crises that we're seeing, whether it's the
[20:18] Russia Ukraine war or for that matter, the Israel Palestine or Israel Hamas war.
[20:26] And the fact that they're engaging right now, the fact that they're going
[20:30] to various countries should be telling should tell the world something about how the other
[20:36] countries are coming together. But yet when it comes to really taking action,
[20:41] there hasn't been any. I mean, Jordan has done the most in terms
[20:45] of pulling out their ambassadors saying that there were some plans of some infrastructure projects.
[20:48] They said, that's not going to go forward. Saudi Arabia has been
[20:52] rather reticent and said that well, we cannot stop projects, or we're not
[20:56] looking to stop. There may be a temporary point. So they're still looking
[21:00] at how to move forward because they have their own stakes. They're very close
[21:04] to his close meaning Region Vice Area Vice, geographically close to Israel. The
[21:11] city that they're building, New York City is just uh stone throw away from
[21:19] Israeli border. So you do not want problems with Israel when you're creating a
[21:25] world class city such as New Orm in Saudi Arabia. So everybody has their
[21:30] own considerations and they're looking at that. But they're also now looking at the
[21:36] fact that this violence has become untenable. Yeah. Actually, and like China
[21:41] and Russia, they will Several expertses said that, you know, China and
[21:45] Russia are still seeing this crisis more in terms of the United States than in
[21:48] terms of either Palestine or Israel. Do you actually have could be the case,
[21:55] that could be the case for any for any civil any conflict that you're
[22:02] seeing in any part of the world. You are seeing also a bipolar world
[22:08] where there are two sides that have been created, whether it is Syria where
[22:12] US took one side and then Russia China chose the other, whether because it's
[22:18] it's a war of supremacy as well, whether it's the Israel, whether it's
[22:22] the Russia Ukraine War where China including India actually took a particular position and the
[22:30] West took another. So it has been a West versus China Russia kind of
[22:33] a bipolar situation when it comes to conflicts. Then can China really be a
[22:40] good mediator with this motive? Then is us a good mediator in such a
[22:45] situation because we're just talking about two sides over here? Why should we take
[22:51] sides? If? If? If China, because it has taken aside with
[22:55] a certain campus, it cannot be considered a good mediator. How is then
[22:59] the United States of America involved, because they've also taken the right in fact,
[23:03] they've taken a side to look the other way when it comes to ceasefire.
[23:07] They said they have a right to self defense, and the right to
[23:11] self defense continues when people say how many are enough? The response we got
[23:17] yesterday from Ambassador A regard citties that you cannot quantify such things because there are
[23:22] still hostages, and family members will not be very reasonable when it comes to
[23:27] responses, but governments should be reasonable. We can understand family members not being
[23:33] reasonable. Again, I go back to the example of India, and I
[23:36] say that in all this, India looks so much more mature than any other
[23:41] country. When two thousand and eight happened, Did we behave immaturely in bomb
[23:45] Pakistan? Did we bomb civilians exactly? Did we go ahead and kill innocent
[23:53] children in Pakistan? Should that have been our response? Of course many say,
[24:00] oh, India did not do enough, and all it's difficult. The
[24:03] only difference over here is that that's a sovereign nation. In Palestine is not.
[24:07] And if this were any other country, forget about us a sovereign nation,
[24:11] right Afghanistan was Did America not go and bomb them? Who's more mature?
[24:17] So if China cannot hold the right to be a peacemaker, how can
[24:23] us? Because they're actually telling us that there is no concept of proportionality.
[24:29] Four thousand, five thousand, five hundred children are dead, eleven thousand civilians.
[24:33] There might be hamas numbers as well. Over there but you know,
[24:37] we don't have the breakup, which is why I say eleven thousand people but
[24:41] five thousand, five hundred children certainly are not Hamas. So then what these
[24:48] arguments now make for no argument at all, because at the end of the
[24:53] day, this international community and primarily those who look the other way, will
[25:00] have to answer in the future whether they were on the wrong side of history
[25:03] or the right side of history. I mean, everybody will say, but
[25:07] you know, you cannot have a butt on Hamas. Absolutely, I understand
[25:11] that. I understand the grievances as well, but there has to be a
[25:15] measured way to take on and tackle. It was not a tactical response.
[25:21] It was a very emotional immediate response. And even if it was for the
[25:25] first few days, I could have understood that emotional immediate response is continuing.
[25:30] It has to sum at some point become tactical. And you'd say that there
[25:34] are tunnels. There are tunnels everywhere under Gaza. You've blockaded them for decades.
[25:41] They've created the tunnel industry because everything is smuggled in, whether if it
[25:45] is Hamas weapons that have stored there or a refrigerator that comes from across the
[25:51] border from Egypt. Yeah, precisely, like you said, I think everything
[25:53] makes sense. And the fact that you mentioned earlier that you know, this
[26:00] is like a very concerted, last ditch effort by the Islamic nations, by
[26:03] the Arab nations. But there was also one question in mine which I wanted
[26:10] to mention that you know, at the very beginning of this entire event,
[26:14] how it unfolded, we actually did not see the art of world gathering together
[26:18] because you know, there were like normalization efforts being mediated between Israel and Saudi
[26:23] uh with you know, USS efforts, and the Arab nations most mostly did
[26:29] not want to sabotage that in the very beginning. But eventually we saw the
[26:33] nations coming together, standing for their solidarity with their you know, Islamic countries
[26:38] and standing for the cause of Palestine. But now just to like ask one
[26:45] question in the sense that with China's intervention, I was confused in terms of
[26:49] the clarity of the Islamic countries stance, because if we look at its history,
[26:56] China, China's history, China is openly like you know, sided with
[26:59] the Palestine and the Arab nations. In the mid nineteen sixties, when Mao
[27:03] Zedong's government provided weapons and support to Palestinians, but after Like Mao's death in
[27:10] nineteen seventy six, China began opening up to the world and softened his position
[27:15] and then started normalizing its relations with Israel too. And under Jinping, China
[27:21] has been able to coot added nations and offers to mediate between Israel and the
[27:26] Palestinians. But I was, like I was reading there was an article in
[27:30] the Washington Post that it mentioned that the President of the Palestine Authority, Mamouda
[27:36] bas He, had signed a strategic partnership with Zu And in exchange for Chinese
[27:44] aid. A bus He said that China's security crackdown on mostly Muslim vegas has
[27:51] nothing to do with human rights and is all about excising extremism. So if
[27:57] you actually want to look at this aspect, on one hand, you know
[28:02] you're talking about Muslim brotherhood and standing for atrocities. And I know with the
[28:07] kind of episodes that we have done with you, Gita, I've understood that
[28:10] diplomacy is not about absolutism. But still this question does need to be answered,
[28:15] right, does need to be I mean, it should be questioned that
[28:18] it has like when you were saying Muslim viggers crackdown on Muslim vegas has nothing
[28:22] to do with human rights, Then what kind of moralities and priorities do these
[28:27] Islamic nations want to even tell us if you see most of the statements that
[28:37] are made individually, no Arab world actually interferes in any internal situation of the
[28:45] of of of Muslims in any in any country. They don't sow the Arabia
[28:51] does not ask or question India personally right on the situation of Muslims here or
[28:57] of your vigurs in in in China. And I'm not compared comparing India and
[29:03] China lest I get ruled. I'm just saying that for the reports that are
[29:07] put out, Saudi Arabia does not do that. Under o C, yes,
[29:11] statements are made, and under OIC you will see all of them come
[29:17] together and sign under the same statement, whether if it is vager Muslims UH
[29:22] in China, or the situation in India or the issue of Kashmir, or
[29:29] for that matter, certain minorities in various other parts of the world, Muslims
[29:36] if they've treated badly in the West, all that UH is stated as grouping
[29:42] under the OIC, but specific statements on internal issues. Normally the Arab world
[29:49] refrains from doing uh and which is what we've seen also because for that and
[29:56] it's not like they've not done in the past. They have, but they
[29:59] have stopped doing it now is because now they look at China from a very
[30:04] different perspective. It's a country that is not just a sovereign nation to deal
[30:12] with diplomatically, but also an investor nation. And when you have investments coming
[30:18] in from certain quarters, then you do tend to look at and balance your
[30:25] own interests visibly the interests of Muslims or the cause of Islam in various parts
[30:34] of the world, which is what we're seeing over here. You can call
[30:37] it hypocritical. A lot of people do call it hypocritical. But when they're
[30:41] in trouble, I don't see even the Islamic nations come together to fight the
[30:48] atrocities. One. Secondly, when they're in trouble and you then they don't
[30:53] see the West actually coming to their rescuetion, even if they were supported by
[30:59] the West or the or they were seeking negotiations and mediation from the West.
[31:06] So in such a scenario, now you have these countries or whichever country that
[31:11] has a very important standing geopolitical standing in the region, now play both sides
[31:18] and both cards. So if the West is not listening to them, they
[31:21] will look at China. If China is not listening to them, they will
[31:23] look at the West. They're doing exactly what every other country has started doing,
[31:27] looking at their own strategic interests. It is not in Palestine's interest just
[31:33] to put all the eggs in the Western baskets, certainly not because they're aligned
[31:37] with Israel, and it is not diplomatically the sanest thing to do to put
[31:45] all its eggs in the China basket, because then you will have more trouble
[31:51] in the region if the West is not stops paying heat to you or is
[31:55] not listening, although on many counts it has not listened. But that aside
[32:00] because they are so aligned with Israel. But that aside, they still are
[32:04] now working towards ensuring that there is peace. So let's see how that really
[32:09] pans out for Palestine. Abumazen is doing exactly what most of the countries are
[32:15] doing, and while many would call it hypocritical, nobody is questioning anyone and
[32:22] nobody is creating a human cry about vigers in China, or for that matter,
[32:30] other minorities being tortured or persecuted in other parts of the world. Everybody
[32:38] is looking at their own strategic interesting right now. For Palestine, it is
[32:42] more important to look at solving this entire crisis rather than look at what China
[32:50] has done to vigers in China, although that should be a focus for anyone
[32:54] irrespectable religion as a humanitarian problem. I think I remember talking about the Vega
[33:00] Muslims. I remember when we had a discussion on China's new peacemaker role.
[33:06] That is, assuming you mentioned that it's kind of a good tactic to hide,
[33:09] you know, what is underneath, because since this issue has sort of,
[33:13] you know, allowed Beijing to push back on ongoing accusations about its own
[33:17] human rights abuses against Vegas and other minorities in Xinzian, So it's it's kind
[33:23] of like a good tactic in terms of how China is playing and assuming this
[33:29] peacemaker role. But having said that, I think we will put an end
[33:34] to this conversation. It was really, you know, nice chatting with you,
[33:37] and the fact that you said that, you know, this is a
[33:40] very concerted last ditch effort by this Lamic nation speaks so much is very telling
[33:46] that you know this is this needs to when it's over forty days and there
[33:51] has to be a solution, and especially India, like I was actually about
[33:54] to ask you whether you know, India should be very of the fact of
[33:59] this growing influence of China in the Middle East, which is a factor.
[34:01] For sure, it's kind of big red flag for Askea. Do you think
[34:06] that or now the fact that India the Islamic nations are also traveling to India,
[34:12] so it's not that one sided yet not one sided yet should not really
[34:15] be a red flag because look, if they only have to engage the West,
[34:20] which is looking the other way, it is a problem. So India
[34:23] understands why the Arab world is looking at Russia and China and then also would
[34:29] engage India. But China and Russia in particular, not to forget their P
[34:32] five nations, not to forget the fact that they've supported everything to do with
[34:37] Palestine in the recent United Nations Security Council resolutions, moves, discussions, debates,
[34:44] all of that. So they ought to engage China and Russia at this
[34:50] point in time, the red flag should be for the West, that should
[34:53] have used this as an opportunity to ensure that they become the peacemakers, but
[35:00] that was not to be because they've aligned themselves to an extent that they've not
[35:07] been able to extricate themselves from the geopolitics of the region to look at the
[35:15] larger picture. So the Arab world and the Arab Muslim world is doing whatever
[35:20] it can and whatever is in their might to ensure that there is a stop
[35:25] to the to the actions by Israel in Gaza atrocities. Yeah, precisely.
[35:34] I think China is sort of stepping up its international role by filling a bar
[35:39] vacuum which was left by the US because in a war, you know,
[35:43] you have cided entirely with Israel. So the US has kind of shot itself
[35:46] in the foot, like they say. So, Yeah, I think we'll
[35:52] put an end to the discussion. So thank you so much for this Guita.
[35:54] I think it was you know, most of my touts have been cleared.
[35:59] Now, thank you. I will watch this Clark, and thank you
[36:01] to our listeners for listening in. We'll have to see how this pans are
[36:07] and this concerted effort and disconsolidated effort to stand in solidarity with the Palestinians.
[36:13] We'll have to see whether their effort does not, you know, go in
[36:16] vain or does it really bear any fruit. So thank you for that,
[36:20] and to all the listeners out there, if you enjoyed the discussion, if
[36:23] you found it informative, knowledgeable, any feedback that you have, just let
[36:28] us know. The number is eight five, double eight nine, double six,
[36:30] double nine six, and the email ideas ports at the rate into today
[36:34] dot com. Thank you, thank you,

Shows are listed from Apple Podcasts' charts and directory, and Podcast Index where it is used. Every show and episode belongs to its publisher and plays from the publisher's own feed; this site hosts none of them.