# President Yoon's impeachment & South Korea’s infallible democracy | Geeta's World, Ep 113

An episode of [Geeta's World](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1635741757), 18 Dec 2024, 37 min.

Audio: https://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/api.spreaker.com/download/episode/63373472/18_dec_24_gw_18_dec_128.mp3

South Korean President Yoon Suk Yeol has been impeached by the National Assembly, making him the third president in the country to face suspension through such a vote. The impeachment was triggered by Yoon's decision to impose martial law. Although the martial law lasted only six hours, it plunged the nation into political chaos. But why did Yoon resort to such a drastic measure in the first place? The impeachment now moves to South Korea's Constitutional Court, which has 180 days to decide its outcome. However, formally removing Yoon from office will not be an easy task. Why is the path to his formal impeachment so challenging? In this episode of Geeta's World, our host, Anna Priyadarshini, and the foreign affairs editor at India Today, TV Today Network, Geeta Mohan, discuss! Produced by Anna Priyadarshini Sound Mix by Nitin Rawat

## Transcript

[0:00] Speaker 1: This is India Today podcasts.
[0:04] Speaker 2: South Korean President Yune So Curel has been impeached by
[0:08] Speaker 2: the National Assembly, making him the third president in the
[0:11] Speaker 2: country to face suspension through such a vote. The impeachment
[0:15] Speaker 2: was triggered by UN's decision to impose martial law, although
[0:19] Speaker 2: it lasted only six hours, but it plunged the nation
[0:23] Speaker 2: into political chaos. So why did Jun resort to such
[0:27] Speaker 2: a drastic measure in the first place.
[0:29] Speaker 3: See, if you're a leader who does not have the numbers,
[0:31] Speaker 3: the requisite numbers in the National Assembly, and you want
[0:34] Speaker 3: to function, and the biggest impediment is that there can
[0:37] Speaker 3: be no forward movement because the National Assembly opposition lawmakers
[0:41] Speaker 3: are not going to allow it to happen. Then you
[0:44] Speaker 3: either step down or you act in desperation, which is
[0:48] Speaker 3: what I think President Jun did. It was an act
[0:51] Speaker 3: of desperation because imposition of martial law, his explanation, was
[0:56] Speaker 3: paralyzing the government, and so he banned all political activis
[1:00] Speaker 3: against him.
[1:01] Speaker 2: And the impeachment now moves to South Korea's Constitutional Court,
[1:05] Speaker 2: which has one to eighty days to decide its outcome.
[1:08] Speaker 2: But formally removing Yun from office will not be an
[1:12] Speaker 2: easy task. So why is the path to his formal
[1:15] Speaker 2: impeachment so challenging.
[1:17] Speaker 1: For President Yun?
[1:18] Speaker 3: I think the situation is such where if he manages
[1:22] Speaker 3: the judges, he might not get impeached. The only difference
[1:24] Speaker 3: away is that he might not be able to serve
[1:26] Speaker 3: his entire term is because he does not have the
[1:29] Speaker 3: numbers in the national assembler.
[1:33] Speaker 2: Hello, I'm Anna Pradashie with India Today TV's Foreign Affairs
[1:37] Speaker 2: Editor Geita Mohan. Where with Geta's astute and incisive grasp
[1:42] Speaker 2: of world affairs, we delve into all that is urgent
[1:45] Speaker 2: and pressing in world politics and comprehend how these developments
[1:49] Speaker 2: in other countries could shape India's global ambitions of being
[1:53] Speaker 2: a wish for Guru, Let's unravel Geita's World. Hello and welcome.
[1:59] Speaker 2: This is their one hundred and thirteenth episode of Gita's
[2:02] Speaker 2: World and the festive seasons is approaching. Eita, I'm sure
[2:05] Speaker 2: you must be excited. I saw a lot of many
[2:08] Speaker 2: pictures of yours Christmas tree with.
[2:10] Speaker 3: Both they yes, So every year we do a Christmas
[2:14] Speaker 3: tree which is eco friendly, sustainable. We've done it with creates,
[2:18] Speaker 3: with paper, We've done books before, but this time again
[2:22] Speaker 3: it's books. There are only two important trees, as my
[2:28] Speaker 3: father in law says, Tree of Life and Tree of Knowledge.
[2:32] Speaker 3: This year is in history of knowledge. Wow, it so fascinating.
[2:37] Speaker 2: It was such a huge. Yes, it's not like a
[2:41] Speaker 2: you have quite a collection.
[2:42] Speaker 1: Oh yes I have. That was just one fourth. Maybe
[2:45] Speaker 1: nobody stole from your No, if I I would have
[2:50] Speaker 1: no ceiling happening. You can borrow. Okay, yeah, but I
[2:57] Speaker 1: mean yeah.
[2:58] Speaker 3: The season has begun, so a lot of get together as,
[3:02] Speaker 3: a lot of lunches, a lot of all of that
[3:05] Speaker 3: is going to happen, Yes, definitely.
[3:08] Speaker 2: But the news, of course will still be pouring it, absolutely,
[3:13] Speaker 2: and we'll be here on this podcast dissecting everything. And
[3:18] Speaker 2: this time we're touching upon one subject, one country, which
[3:22] Speaker 2: I think has just been discussed once. That's what I realized.
[3:25] Speaker 2: It was regarding the US treaty between South Korea and
[3:30] Speaker 2: US to thwart North Korea as a questioned some nuclear
[3:35] Speaker 2: program treaty that they had. So I just realized that
[3:39] Speaker 2: we havepened because I often do that. I often, you know,
[3:43] Speaker 2: refer to other episodes, previous episodes.
[3:45] Speaker 1: And then you had none and I had none.
[3:47] Speaker 2: Okay, So beyond because here in the Indo landscape, South
[3:52] Speaker 2: Korea is more about in the cultural assimilation we see car.
[3:55] Speaker 3: If there's something big that happens in North Korea which
[3:57] Speaker 3: hasn't happened in a while, yes.
[4:00] Speaker 2: So South Korea is one such country which is like
[4:02] Speaker 2: not much is known about their politics. So I really
[4:05] Speaker 2: had like a tough time researching.
[4:06] Speaker 3: Did we not do the balloon war between North Korean
[4:09] Speaker 3: South Korea?
[4:10] Speaker 2: I don't think so.
[4:11] Speaker 3: Well, the North Koreans where North Koreans were sending trash balloons.
[4:15] Speaker 2: Oh we didn't, we didn't.
[4:17] Speaker 3: That was a fun story. We did it on India
[4:18] Speaker 3: Today Global. You should watch it. It is a fun story.
[4:21] Speaker 3: It continues every now and again. North courageous since yeah yeah,
[4:25] Speaker 3: air balloons with trash that goes and lands in South
[4:27] Speaker 3: Korea's poor people are cleaning o wow. And trash means
[4:31] Speaker 3: really dirty trash. Okay, it's not just paper and things,
[4:34] Speaker 3: but like really trash.
[4:36] Speaker 2: Oh yeah, oh well, yes, so I'll put that in
[4:41] Speaker 2: the show notes your video on India Global, I'll do that, right.
[4:44] Speaker 2: So I'm sure you know, those who are worse with
[4:49] Speaker 2: the facts of what's happening in South Korea must be
[4:53] Speaker 2: knowing about this impeachment, which is precedent is facing It's
[4:59] Speaker 2: like his top is actually stuck in a limbo. The
[5:03] Speaker 2: president is Yun Souk Cure and he was impeached by
[5:06] Speaker 2: the National Assembly, becoming the third South Korean president to
[5:11] Speaker 2: face suspension through such a vote. Now, there are a
[5:13] Speaker 2: lot many things. I think it's better for Geita to
[5:16] Speaker 2: you know, break down because I'm sure there would be
[5:19] Speaker 2: certain terms like considering you know, it's a South quotan's
[5:23] Speaker 2: follow up presidential form of committee or it's parliamentary, so
[5:26] Speaker 2: things would be different. There's a National Assembly which calls
[5:29] Speaker 2: for the president's impeachment and impeachment I think South Korea census,
[5:35] Speaker 2: you know, it attained democracy. I think in nineteen eighty seven.
[5:38] Speaker 2: They have faced a lot many impeachments also, that's what
[5:43] Speaker 2: I read that because they have just one five year
[5:46] Speaker 2: term to serve, so they just want to give it
[5:48] Speaker 2: all in. They can't be re elected. So I'll get
[5:51] Speaker 2: to all of that. But first let's understand why are
[5:56] Speaker 2: we seeing this kind of news poring in that these
[6:01] Speaker 2: you know, considering it's under our presidential form of government.
[6:04] Speaker 2: So these powers that the president enjoys they are checked
[6:08] Speaker 2: by the National Assembly, and National Assembly consists of three
[6:12] Speaker 2: hundred members, right, so they are calling for Oh wait,
[6:16] Speaker 2: So on third of December, it was the president's decision
[6:20] Speaker 2: to declare martial law that plunged South Korea into a
[6:24] Speaker 2: political turmoil. Now, marshal law is like, you're a democracy,
[6:27] Speaker 2: how can you bring in a martial law? That's the
[6:29] Speaker 2: first question. So why to understand this?
[6:33] Speaker 1: Think?
[6:33] Speaker 2: I think, why did the president even think of imposing
[6:38] Speaker 2: marshall law in a country which upholds democratic values so dearly?
[6:43] Speaker 2: So why did it come in the first place.
[6:46] Speaker 3: See, if you're a leader who does not have the numbers,
[6:48] Speaker 3: the requsit numbers in the National Assembly and you want
[6:50] Speaker 3: to function, and the biggest impediment is that there can
[6:55] Speaker 3: be no forward movement because the National Assembly opposition lawmakers
[6:58] Speaker 3: are not going to allow it to happen. Then you
[7:02] Speaker 3: either step down or you act in desperation, which is
[7:07] Speaker 3: what I think President Unit did. It was an act
[7:09] Speaker 3: of desperation because the imposition of martial law, his explanation,
[7:14] Speaker 3: was paralyzing the government and which is why he needed
[7:17] Speaker 3: to take control. And in order to take control, what
[7:20] Speaker 3: does a martial law allow you to do. It allows
[7:24] Speaker 3: you to take control of all agencies and suspends all
[7:28] Speaker 3: kinds of rights in many ways than one, including right
[7:32] Speaker 3: freedom of press. So all rights are disbandits practically, you know,
[7:40] Speaker 3: in all sectors and segments. And when you do that,
[7:46] Speaker 3: you are ensuring that the opposition does not have the
[7:50] Speaker 3: play that it has had in the recent past. So, yes,
[7:53] Speaker 3: he was having a difficult time, and yes he still
[7:58] Speaker 3: wanted to stay in power, and so he banned all
[8:01] Speaker 3: political activity against him. But that did not go around
[8:04] Speaker 3: too well, as we've seen, and we'll be discussing what
[8:08] Speaker 3: really happened. The martial law was rejected.
[8:13] Speaker 2: Quite I think it just lasted six ass or five
[8:16] Speaker 2: success Yes, it.
[8:18] Speaker 1: Was, Yes, it was.
[8:20] Speaker 3: It was rejected by quite you know, quite wholesomely by
[8:25] Speaker 3: the people and the lawmakers. And he had to withdraw
[8:30] Speaker 3: he in in an in a few hours time, six
[8:35] Speaker 3: hours if I'm not wrong, right, he had to withdraw
[8:38] Speaker 3: from uh, from his he had to withdraw his decision.
[8:43] Speaker 3: And a rollback of a decisions such as this only
[8:47] Speaker 3: means political suicide. Furthermore, the fact that you already did
[8:52] Speaker 3: what was unthinkable, and there are reports that suggests that
[8:56] Speaker 3: three months prior to the martial law, the opposition opposition
[9:00] Speaker 3: was saying that they're hearing rumors of President June discussing
[9:03] Speaker 3: martial law, and they had warned the government against such
[9:08] Speaker 3: a move because that would lead to what it has
[9:11] Speaker 3: led to today, that he will be questioned and there
[9:15] Speaker 3: will be an impeachment proceeding. Also, it's not like the
[9:19] Speaker 3: United States of America, where you know, presidents don't get impeached.
[9:24] Speaker 3: It always gets rejected because there's number somewhere over here.
[9:28] Speaker 3: You have had cases of impeachment in the past as well.
[9:31] Speaker 3: And so President Yune is in quite a bit of
[9:36] Speaker 3: trouble because the first move of impeachment did go through in.
[9:44] Speaker 1: The Parliament where.
[9:48] Speaker 3: Where he was voted two hundred and four to eighty
[9:52] Speaker 3: five four in favor of the impeachment. But the proceedings
[9:56] Speaker 3: are long and tedious, and we'll talk about that because
[9:58] Speaker 3: it is going to move forward. Would just because they
[10:01] Speaker 3: have done it does not mean that the president stands impeached.
[10:05] Speaker 3: It just means it takes the entire process to the
[10:08] Speaker 3: next step, which is the Constitutional Court. Absolutly right, So
[10:13] Speaker 3: why is it then several reports are saying that removing
[10:18] Speaker 3: him from office will not be easy, considering he has
[10:21] Speaker 3: been impeached and in fact, those people who voted for
[10:24] Speaker 3: his impeachment many work from his own party. So that
[10:28] Speaker 3: is one another question which I'll ask you. But for now,
[10:32] Speaker 3: why is it that removing him from office will not
[10:35] Speaker 3: be easy? Because right now, what will happen That this.
[10:39] Speaker 2: Will go to South Korea's Constitutional Court, which is the
[10:42] Speaker 2: highest legal authority, and it has one eighty days to
[10:45] Speaker 2: deliver a final verdict whether he stands impeached, whether he
[10:49] Speaker 2: has to get removed from the office or not. And
[10:53] Speaker 2: there's an article by the economists which stated that the
[10:56] Speaker 2: Constitutional Court requires six out of it's nine justices to
[11:01] Speaker 2: agree to uphold and impeachment, but only six seats are
[11:05] Speaker 2: filled because there were three justices who're retired now and
[11:11] Speaker 2: one of the sitting justices is a conservative appointee only
[11:14] Speaker 2: of President Yun, which means that it might influence the
[11:19] Speaker 2: course deliberations in terms in the.
[11:22] Speaker 3: Violence so familiar we just discussed us and are the
[11:26] Speaker 3: courts and the appointments that Trump made just up before
[11:31] Speaker 3: leaving office. Is the reason why he could breathe a
[11:34] Speaker 3: little easy during all of Biden administration and also taking
[11:38] Speaker 3: control of the House was a huge thing and now
[11:41] Speaker 3: the Senate as well, So similarly over here, tough times
[11:46] Speaker 3: for you because he does not have control of the House. Yeah,
[11:50] Speaker 3: and he certainly is going to get into a lot
[11:51] Speaker 3: of trouble because of because of the actions that he's taken,
[11:58] Speaker 3: and it also has gotten person Milana. It's not just
[12:01] Speaker 3: about him, it's about the first Lady as well.
[12:04] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[12:04] Speaker 3: So there is impeachment because of a massive error in
[12:08] Speaker 3: judgment in imposition of the martial law, but it is
[12:13] Speaker 3: followed by corruption scandals cases against especially his wife, and
[12:21] Speaker 3: once his impeachment proceedings goes, so we'll have to wait
[12:24] Speaker 3: and see how they react to the First Lady's in
[12:29] Speaker 3: the case or the cases and the scandal of corruption
[12:34] Speaker 3: revolving the first Lady as well. So the family's in trouble.
[12:38] Speaker 3: It's not just him, And I think President June acted
[12:41] Speaker 3: not just in desperation but also in haste in terms
[12:44] Speaker 3: of expediting things in a manner that he could continue
[12:48] Speaker 3: to retain power, and that hasn't worked for him. So yes,
[12:52] Speaker 3: the matter in some time is going to be heard
[12:56] Speaker 3: by the Constitutional Bench, and like you said, the judges,
[13:00] Speaker 3: so it will require time because the places have to
[13:05] Speaker 3: even if the places are filled. Yeah, Anna, there are
[13:08] Speaker 3: those who are who have either been appointed by President
[13:16] Speaker 3: June or who might not really think that it was
[13:23] Speaker 3: a violative of the constitution or rules and norms. He
[13:30] Speaker 3: does have support there and if that goes through, then
[13:34] Speaker 3: he might not be impeached or it will be a
[13:36] Speaker 3: tedious process. There have been instances in the past as
[13:40] Speaker 3: well where either impeachment has gone through or it has
[13:44] Speaker 3: not gone through, such as twenty sixteen when Park Guy
[13:48] Speaker 3: in High was the first female president, was a leader
[13:53] Speaker 3: and sitting president was removed from office through impeachment and
[13:59] Speaker 3: to serve twenty years in prison for corruption and abuse
[14:01] Speaker 3: of power. Then you had Romu Jun who survived impeachment
[14:06] Speaker 3: in twenty twenty four. That's only because after months of deliberation,
[14:10] Speaker 3: he went on to actually serve his entire five year terms,
[14:13] Speaker 3: so he was not impeached. For President Yun, I think
[14:17] Speaker 3: the situation is such where where if he manages the judges,
[14:23] Speaker 3: he might not get impeached. It might be difficult to
[14:26] Speaker 3: impeach him, will he serve his term. The only difference
[14:29] Speaker 3: of year is that he might not be able to
[14:30] Speaker 3: serve his entire term is because he does not have
[14:34] Speaker 3: the numbers in the National Assembly, so he would require
[14:38] Speaker 3: the numbers to stay in power. And I think most
[14:40] Speaker 3: of them are very unhappy with what's happening and with
[14:44] Speaker 3: where the party is headed, and the party has lost
[14:47] Speaker 3: a lot of has lost faice. So we'll have to
[14:52] Speaker 3: wait and see how that really, you know, pans out
[14:55] Speaker 3: for the current incumbent. I would say, I mean, a
[15:01] Speaker 3: lot of people are saying it's very difficult for him
[15:03] Speaker 3: to be impeached. I'd hedge my bets. I'd say, let's
[15:06] Speaker 3: wait and see. In politics, you cannot say, oh, he's
[15:10] Speaker 3: not going to at all. You never know some and
[15:16] Speaker 3: we've seen that very close to home, where judges turn
[15:21] Speaker 3: when they read the room and they think that he's
[15:23] Speaker 3: not going to come back. Is there a reason to
[15:25] Speaker 3: favor him? What is the reason to favor him if
[15:29] Speaker 3: he's not going to come back? So might as will
[15:33] Speaker 3: be on the un hold a moral high ground and
[15:37] Speaker 3: be on the right side of history rather than the
[15:38] Speaker 3: wrong side of history. So you never know how these
[15:41] Speaker 3: judges see they would have considered being favorable should he
[15:47] Speaker 3: have stood a chance. At this point, it does not
[15:51] Speaker 3: look like And like you said, you know, they still
[15:54] Speaker 3: have to fill up the positions, and if they don't,
[15:58] Speaker 3: the numbers you'll have to you know, you'll have to
[16:02] Speaker 3: look at the numbers of the number of judges will
[16:04] Speaker 3: require what six.
[16:05] Speaker 2: Six there are total?
[16:08] Speaker 1: Currently only six are there?
[16:09] Speaker 2: Yeah, No, they require six out of nine judges to agree,
[16:14] Speaker 2: and now only six seats are filled.
[16:17] Speaker 3: That's what I'm saying. They require six out of nine,
[16:20] Speaker 3: but right now only three critical ones awake. And so
[16:25] Speaker 3: let's see if the opposition and the government can come
[16:27] Speaker 3: up with names and whether they will be able to
[16:33] Speaker 3: give a verdict that's favorable to you. And so while
[16:37] Speaker 3: it seems like it's going to be tedious and it's
[16:39] Speaker 3: going to be a long process, it's not an impossible
[16:42] Speaker 3: one though. Also interestingly, if the Constitutional Court actually impeaches him,
[16:46] Speaker 3: then he will be the shortest serving president in the
[16:49] Speaker 3: history of South Korea, and within a span of sixty days,
[16:55] Speaker 3: the country will have to call for elections again. Okay,
[17:00] Speaker 3: so lots of it's a historic moment in itself because
[17:04] Speaker 3: you've not seen martial law being posed, you know, you've
[17:09] Speaker 3: seen impeachments. Yeah, some rounds of abuse of power, corruptions
[17:14] Speaker 3: on and so forth, but not on grounds of being
[17:18] Speaker 3: violative of the constitution.
[17:20] Speaker 2: Right, And I'll ask you where, like if he does
[17:23] Speaker 2: get impeached, then you know who is the probable name
[17:28] Speaker 2: to likely to you know, govern South Korea. But before that,
[17:33] Speaker 2: there was one very striking factor that I noticed, Like
[17:37] Speaker 2: if you see what has happened in South Korea is
[17:39] Speaker 2: majorly because un President Huan was frustrated right by what
[17:43] Speaker 2: he called a parliamentary dictatorship, and there was a sizable
[17:47] Speaker 2: opposition presence in the National Assembly, and he said that
[17:50] Speaker 2: they were trying to paralyze his administration by trying to
[17:54] Speaker 2: impeach top officials. And President Yun would be the third
[17:58] Speaker 2: president in as many decades to be impeached and he
[18:01] Speaker 2: would be the second one to be removed. So this
[18:04] Speaker 2: sort of a track record is clearly worrying in a
[18:08] Speaker 2: democratic country and both sill for the future as well,
[18:12] Speaker 2: one would say that. But what was remarkable was that
[18:16] Speaker 2: when push comes to shove their judicial system, their opposition,
[18:21] Speaker 2: their civil society, they have really protected democracy with all
[18:26] Speaker 2: they might. You know, in this case, even there were massive,
[18:30] Speaker 2: massive protests and people were camping out on the streets
[18:33] Speaker 2: and biting cold, you know, freezing cold. Even the opposition
[18:37] Speaker 2: stormed the Senate. All of this happened, but there were
[18:39] Speaker 2: no arrests. There was no you know, like similar scenes
[18:43] Speaker 2: we would be seeing here in India, but there would
[18:45] Speaker 2: be massive friends.
[18:46] Speaker 3: There has been one arrest, at least according to reports
[18:50] Speaker 3: the Defense Minister. Yes, but yeah, you're right saying that
[18:54] Speaker 3: no political arrests exactly. Take those political retentions, civil society,
[19:00] Speaker 3: civil rights activists, detention even people for that matter, people.
[19:03] Speaker 1: For that matter. That's the main thing.
[19:06] Speaker 2: But I just want to compare this with India in
[19:09] Speaker 2: terms of our democratic political system, how it has held
[19:13] Speaker 2: up spectacularly. Also because we have been a democracy since
[19:16] Speaker 2: birth right, so as citizens don't feel threatened this way.
[19:20] Speaker 2: But then on the flip side, if you see one
[19:23] Speaker 2: can also say that they don't feel the need to
[19:25] Speaker 2: protect it. The level of civil society engagement in democratic
[19:30] Speaker 2: politics is really low here. Around the same time last year,
[19:35] Speaker 2: if I remember, there were one forty six MP's they
[19:38] Speaker 2: who were suspended from Parliament and that was the ruling
[19:42] Speaker 2: party's response to the opposition wanting a briefing on the
[19:45] Speaker 2: security region in parliament. When two people had entered the parliament,
[19:50] Speaker 2: they had set of you know, colored gas and shouted slogans.
[19:54] Speaker 2: So how do you see this parallel? Like do you
[19:57] Speaker 2: think there's a reason to say that our people take democracy,
[20:02] Speaker 2: you know, for granted and even when it's like even
[20:06] Speaker 2: when it's health maybe questioned, or when the circumstances merit
[20:11] Speaker 2: like a most active civil society participation.
[20:15] Speaker 1: So how do you see the contrast?
[20:19] Speaker 3: I think that they're two very different setups. Firstly, okay,
[20:24] Speaker 3: there are checks and balances in South Korea. We are
[20:28] Speaker 3: different kind of setup. They're very different. If you look
[20:33] Speaker 3: at their system where a martial law that has been imposed,
[20:40] Speaker 3: Like if the same were over here in India, maybe
[20:44] Speaker 3: maybe there would have been protests in a certain time
[20:48] Speaker 3: period of time or maybe not, we don't know. South
[20:54] Speaker 3: Korea also has changed drastically. It has moved forward, although
[20:58] Speaker 3: it's always been a democracy. See how we withhold our
[21:02] Speaker 3: democratic values is what it all comes down to. Right
[21:06] Speaker 3: over there, there is no impingement. I know, a way
[21:12] Speaker 3: of suffocating people by through power might happen, but I'm
[21:20] Speaker 3: just saying that if you're aware of your rights, you
[21:22] Speaker 3: know that you have recourse over here, we're a democracy.
[21:27] Speaker 3: These things don't happen here. But we've had our own
[21:29] Speaker 3: set of emergency in post. What is a national emergency
[21:33] Speaker 3: if not martial law? What is an which is what
[21:35] Speaker 3: they're calling it there? What's a national emergency here? We've
[21:38] Speaker 3: had emergency in post in India as well. It does
[21:41] Speaker 3: the very same things that the martial law in South
[21:45] Speaker 3: Korea does. There might not be a military takeover, but
[21:49] Speaker 3: it still is one where you lose all rights, including
[21:53] Speaker 3: freedom of press, speech, expression, in many ways than one.
[21:58] Speaker 3: And so while we are very very dissimilar in our
[22:02] Speaker 3: forms of democracy, we're still similar in a way that
[22:08] Speaker 3: if the people stand up to the past that be,
[22:12] Speaker 3: they can shape the system.
[22:14] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[22:15] Speaker 3: They have done it in the past, right, they've done
[22:17] Speaker 3: it in the near past as well, and they will
[22:21] Speaker 3: continue to do it in future as well. So values, approach,
[22:26] Speaker 3: the method of implementation, all that might differ. But I
[22:30] Speaker 3: wouldn't say that we're stronger, more you know, vibrant kind
[22:35] Speaker 3: of democracy. But because look at the checks and balances.
[22:38] Speaker 3: The moment this happened, there's a massive revolt. Yeah, it
[22:43] Speaker 3: was nipped in the bud.
[22:44] Speaker 1: Yeah, And in.
[22:45] Speaker 3: Fact, if anything, the one who imposed the martial law
[22:48] Speaker 3: is the one right now who's being tried. I don't
[22:51] Speaker 3: know if that would be the case or would have
[22:53] Speaker 3: been the case with us.
[22:55] Speaker 1: Okay, Yeah, so.
[22:56] Speaker 2: Gita, let's talk about the politics of the country. What
[23:01] Speaker 2: I could gather is that mostly the South Koreans, their
[23:06] Speaker 2: mandate has mostly oscillated between the liberals and the conservatives,
[23:11] Speaker 2: and they've quite like they quite you know, give them
[23:13] Speaker 2: time to rule for lair govern for five years, and
[23:17] Speaker 2: I think after the next five years they again, you know,
[23:20] Speaker 2: change between the liberal and the conservatives. So I wanted
[23:25] Speaker 2: to understand, like, considering the fact, considering the fact that
[23:30] Speaker 2: you himself is quite an unpopular leader. You know, I
[23:33] Speaker 2: think his rating is like really since he assumed part
[23:37] Speaker 2: in twenty twenty two, his rating from fifty three percent
[23:40] Speaker 2: has dipped like it continues to dip. So he has
[23:44] Speaker 2: remained a very unpopular leader. In fact, his own party members,
[23:48] Speaker 2: you know, like I said, his own party members as
[23:51] Speaker 2: have voted in you know, in support of his impeachment.
[23:54] Speaker 2: But anywhere I was asking that if you try to
[23:57] Speaker 2: understand what exactly is a liberal and what exactly is
[24:00] Speaker 2: the conservative in South Korea, how would you explain that
[24:05] Speaker 2: considering like what I know is that South Korean politics
[24:09] Speaker 2: often mirror's public sentiment on big issues first North Korea,
[24:13] Speaker 2: like the sentiment towards North Korea, and how South Koreans,
[24:17] Speaker 2: you know, behave and project themselves and also tackle their
[24:22] Speaker 2: aggression North Korea, the economy and corruption being the key issues.
[24:27] Speaker 2: You know, that based the politics and base the voter sentiment.
[24:31] Speaker 2: But as a LA person, how I understand that the
[24:33] Speaker 2: Conservatives they focus heavily on national security, military strength, and
[24:39] Speaker 2: fostering economic growth. They're all about stability, order and aligning
[24:43] Speaker 2: closely with global powers like the US. And this is
[24:47] Speaker 2: how they differ. That they take on like a military
[24:49] Speaker 2: approach towards tackling.
[24:52] Speaker 1: North Korea's aggression.
[24:54] Speaker 2: But on the other hand, if you see the liberals,
[24:56] Speaker 2: they have like a peace building kind of an approach
[24:59] Speaker 2: towards North Korea, very conciliatory, you know, and they emphasize
[25:04] Speaker 2: on peace building, reducing social inequalities, pursuing a more diversified
[25:09] Speaker 2: foreign policy. So now, if you think about the people's mandate,
[25:13] Speaker 2: like I said, they alternate between the Conservatives, between these
[25:16] Speaker 2: two extremes, they give them a you know, sizeable chance
[25:21] Speaker 2: to deliver on the promises and if they don't fulfill,
[25:23] Speaker 2: they're like, okay, now we would look, we would choose.
[25:27] Speaker 1: The other extreme.
[25:28] Speaker 2: So if we see it from the point policy kind of,
[25:32] Speaker 2: you know, prism, what do you think does this reveal
[25:36] Speaker 2: about South Korean's choice as a society.
[25:41] Speaker 3: Sanna, This is a very important question and this will
[25:43] Speaker 3: put in perspective what has happened in South Korean politics recently.
[25:49] Speaker 3: So in April when parliamentary elections were held, that's when
[25:54] Speaker 3: President Unisircule lost control of the House. And when you
[25:59] Speaker 3: lose control of house and you don't have lawmakers who
[26:04] Speaker 3: can support your moves, and you have liberals who are
[26:11] Speaker 3: considered liberals, and like you said, I have an approach
[26:15] Speaker 3: that is that is not aligned with yours, and I'll
[26:21] Speaker 3: explain that to you. Aligned with yours is when you
[26:24] Speaker 3: start feeling really frustrated and how are you going to
[26:27] Speaker 3: run the government, which is what was happening to present
[26:31] Speaker 3: you as well. But basically the difference was that he
[26:35] Speaker 3: was not in control, and conservatives are known to be
[26:39] Speaker 3: absolutely anti North Korea. It's the US South Korea Alliance
[26:44] Speaker 3: that is paramount to them. They and therefore the entire
[26:49] Speaker 3: geopolitics of that region visa vie North Korea and China.
[26:53] Speaker 3: All of that changes. And while we were joking about
[26:55] Speaker 3: it earlier about these trash balloons being sent by North
[26:58] Speaker 3: Korea somewhere downd the I think there was this They
[27:04] Speaker 3: felt more bolstered, and they got a boost from the
[27:09] Speaker 3: elections that took place, which allowed liberals to space who
[27:14] Speaker 3: basically are looking to or have the idea of one
[27:18] Speaker 3: day seeing North Koreans and South Koreans work together. There's
[27:25] Speaker 3: an entire extreme front that also talks about unity united
[27:29] Speaker 3: North Korea, South Korea again, but that aside, you know,
[27:33] Speaker 3: the ones who think that they need to work with
[27:36] Speaker 3: So in such a scenario when you have a party
[27:41] Speaker 3: of conservatives not in control, with the liberals having much
[27:49] Speaker 3: of say in how the government should run and your
[27:55] Speaker 3: approach on foreign policy, especially visa y for them North
[28:00] Speaker 3: Korea is not just foreign policy foreign policy because it
[28:04] Speaker 3: concerns their alliances with all other important players in stakeholders,
[28:10] Speaker 3: particularly the United States of America. But it's a very
[28:13] Speaker 3: domestic issue also because a lot of it has to
[28:16] Speaker 3: do with the domestic and this is only North Korea
[28:19] Speaker 3: on the economic front, also very different approach, so nothing
[28:26] Speaker 3: in a way aligned between the liberals and the and
[28:31] Speaker 3: the and the conservatives, which is why you're seeing what
[28:34] Speaker 3: is happening today and why it is happening. So a
[28:37] Speaker 3: lot of it has to do with the fact that
[28:41] Speaker 3: primarily since April that they had they were having much
[28:47] Speaker 3: little say in how to function and how to govern
[28:51] Speaker 3: a country very important and way critical, and you're looking
[28:56] Speaker 3: at an entire you know, leadership on the other side
[29:01] Speaker 3: that was quite help bent on ensuring that they're not
[29:04] Speaker 3: going to allow this government to function. We're not justifying
[29:07] Speaker 3: what happened what he did was right or wrong, because
[29:09] Speaker 3: it was not right. But you know, if anyone, it
[29:13] Speaker 3: should be the Americans who should be very worried or
[29:17] Speaker 3: not because Trump is going to take over on the
[29:20] Speaker 3: twentieth of jan and he said he's the one man
[29:22] Speaker 3: who can actually speak to and get through to the
[29:27] Speaker 3: North Korean Supreme Leader. So we'll have to wait and
[29:33] Speaker 3: see how that really pans out. It is not really
[29:37] Speaker 3: bad for liberals to have us say, who are actually
[29:40] Speaker 3: looking at maybe the US alignment will work for South
[29:44] Speaker 3: Korea because should he not be in power, then who
[29:47] Speaker 3: next is going to be a question whether if it's
[29:50] Speaker 3: going to be from.
[29:52] Speaker 2: U there's this one opposition leader, yeah.
[29:55] Speaker 1: But from the main Democratic party, yes.
[29:58] Speaker 2: Yes, no, but there's one yeah, I mean one opposition
[30:01] Speaker 2: leader called Ligi Mung. Yeah, he's the Ligimun. He has
[30:07] Speaker 2: seen like a strong contender. And to just end this
[30:11] Speaker 2: conversation on this note only either that while I was reading,
[30:14] Speaker 2: there were on this note that you know, he remains
[30:18] Speaker 2: an unpopular leader. Also factoring in that during his term
[30:23] Speaker 2: the foreign policy of South Korea has actually taken a hit.
[30:26] Speaker 3: That has but I don't know whether there was much
[30:28] Speaker 3: to do with him or the timing of it and
[30:30] Speaker 3: how the geopolitics played okay around the region. Yeah, but
[30:35] Speaker 3: you say what you were saying. Yeah, So like if
[30:37] Speaker 3: you uh, I mean there are two parts to it.
[30:40] Speaker 3: There are two sides to it. One side is that.
[30:43] Speaker 2: Yeah, because you know, there's a military like if you
[30:46] Speaker 2: just factor in North Korea per South Korea. So his
[30:49] Speaker 2: military kind of an approach has also like deepened regional
[30:53] Speaker 2: tensions because North Korea has responded with like, you know,
[30:56] Speaker 2: very like greater aggression, expanding its new capabilities in fact,
[31:02] Speaker 2: also siding with Russia and helping Russia in the Ukraine
[31:06] Speaker 2: by providing Russia ammunitions by North Korea. So uh and
[31:12] Speaker 2: North Korea has under his leadership only North Korea has
[31:15] Speaker 2: called South Korea under Yun as a primary foe. So
[31:20] Speaker 2: that is one part. But if you factor in Japan
[31:24] Speaker 2: in the single so there's one person called one columnist,
[31:29] Speaker 2: Jeroid Ridi. He wrote for Decn Herald that he said
[31:34] Speaker 2: that according to him, the left in South Korea is
[31:38] Speaker 2: anti Japan and the Conservatives is pro Japan, okay, And
[31:42] Speaker 2: he says that Yun was always more popular abroad than home.
[31:47] Speaker 2: So if he talked about this entire camaraderie with between
[31:50] Speaker 2: Japan's former Prime minister Formyo Kishida and us is Biden.
[31:55] Speaker 2: So this entire trilateral kind of camaraderi that we that
[32:00] Speaker 2: three of them enjoy. If he goes, if Jun goes,
[32:03] Speaker 2: that will take a heit. So one thing is that.
[32:06] Speaker 2: And he says that if this opposition leader Lie Jeyong
[32:10] Speaker 2: is being seen as a strong contenter, if he comes in,
[32:13] Speaker 2: he comes in with that anti Japan sentiment.
[32:15] Speaker 3: So because South Koreans have suffered at the hands of
[32:18] Speaker 3: Japan and the historical yeah, the historical wrongs, and what
[32:23] Speaker 3: the distrust and the mistrust has not completely gone. So, yes,
[32:28] Speaker 3: that is what the Liberal Front remembers all of that. Conservatives,
[32:34] Speaker 3: I think are more they're leveraging. They're also looking at
[32:39] Speaker 3: transactional value of having Japan on their side, especially because
[32:45] Speaker 3: their biggest ally is the United States of America, and
[32:48] Speaker 3: the United States of America wants to ensure that the
[32:51] Speaker 3: peace between the broken piece between Japan and South Korea
[32:56] Speaker 3: remains intact, and because otherwise your Indo Pacific strategy will
[33:02] Speaker 3: fall flat if these countries don't align themselves. So they
[33:06] Speaker 3: are a major part of all that conversation because US
[33:10] Speaker 3: is involved, because US is a stakeholder. But again, you
[33:15] Speaker 3: know there is Liegie Mung, who is they saying the
[33:22] Speaker 3: next next candidate for presidency to become the president of
[33:27] Speaker 3: South Korea. He is from the opposition Democratic Party. He
[33:31] Speaker 3: comes from very humble beginnings. He's had a very difficult
[33:36] Speaker 3: struggle and yet he's made it big. He did lose
[33:42] Speaker 3: with a very small margin in twenty twenty two times president, Yes,
[33:48] Speaker 3: very narrow margin.
[33:49] Speaker 1: But he also has candals.
[33:52] Speaker 3: He also has problems of corruption, primarily to do with
[33:57] Speaker 3: the charges of election fraud. Okay, so that will not
[34:01] Speaker 3: go down well, you know, but there are also two
[34:07] Speaker 3: more candidates according to some reports from the People Power
[34:12] Speaker 3: Party that is Yun's party, who could contend, which is
[34:15] Speaker 3: party leader Han Han dong hun and Soul mayor Josey Huon.
[34:21] Speaker 3: So they are potentially contenders. These guys don't have the numbers,
[34:25] Speaker 3: but they won the election, right, So if these two
[34:29] Speaker 3: become you'll see continuum in the South Korean policy towards
[34:34] Speaker 3: North Korea, especially aligning themselves with the United States of America.
[34:40] Speaker 3: Should we look at Lee J Mung coming to power,
[34:43] Speaker 3: then you will see an alignment of the sort that
[34:46] Speaker 3: maybe if Trump wants to talk talk to dprk yeah
[34:51] Speaker 3: and Kim tongun, then maybe an alignment that will be
[34:54] Speaker 3: more kin to or amenable to Washington DC.
[34:59] Speaker 2: Okay, that is interesting, I mean kind of. So basically
[35:03] Speaker 2: what you're saying is that with youth and power point,
[35:07] Speaker 2: politics and diplomacy did take a hit, but with the
[35:12] Speaker 2: opposition leader Lie j muong coming in, this would actually
[35:16] Speaker 2: favor the US, but it will still keep the Japan
[35:21] Speaker 2: US South Korea, Japan US South Korea intact, right.
[35:25] Speaker 3: Because they're absolutely anti North Korea, which is what US
[35:29] Speaker 3: is okay, But if the continuum happens then or if
[35:36] Speaker 3: the opposition Democratic Party comes to power, maybe their idea
[35:41] Speaker 3: of talking to North Korea will work with Trump's policy
[35:46] Speaker 3: of engaging North Korea. Okay, So let's see how it
[35:49] Speaker 3: plays out either way.
[35:51] Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, I think we'll put an end on that note.
[35:54] Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Gita for I mean, it was
[35:58] Speaker 2: slightly tricky to for somebody like me who is for
[36:01] Speaker 2: the first time, you're not trying to understand an alien country.
[36:05] Speaker 3: But politics of an alien gun politics of.
[36:07] Speaker 2: An alien country, of course. But you know, I think
[36:12] Speaker 2: there would be definitely very many articles and videos and documentaries.
[36:17] Speaker 2: Is one by Frontline, which we're talking about adoption reckoning,
[36:21] Speaker 2: which I think adoption is one thing that South Korea
[36:24] Speaker 2: you know, tackles through, tackles with. So I think you should,
[36:28] Speaker 2: you know, as listeners and viewers, we should definitely take
[36:31] Speaker 2: a look and try to understand though the cultural assimilation
[36:34] Speaker 2: and everything that you know, South Korea uphols. So thank
[36:40] Speaker 2: you so much, and thank you to all our listeners
[36:42] Speaker 2: and viewers. If you stay till the end, let us
[36:44] Speaker 2: know what you thought about the episode and also comment,
[36:48] Speaker 2: you know, sending your suggestions of to as to know
[36:51] Speaker 2: what other country or what other topic you would like
[36:54] Speaker 2: us to explore, so we would definitely do that. There's
[36:56] Speaker 2: a number just eight five, double eight nine, double six,
[36:59] Speaker 2: double line six, or you could also email us on
[37:02] Speaker 2: parts at the rate indre today.
[37:04] Speaker 3: Thank you so much for watching and we look forward
[37:07] Speaker 3: to all your feedback.
[37:08] Speaker 1: Thank you

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