# 张小珺Jùn｜商业访谈录 A podcast by 张小珺. 和你一起，从这里，探索新世界！ 《张小珺商业访谈录》是一档深度访谈节目，以2至7小时的长对话为形式，聚焦真实的人物表达与高密度的前沿信息。由语言即世界工作室出品。 主持人张小珺是财经媒体人，专注中国科技业深度报道，覆盖AI、科技巨头、风险投资与知名人物。曾13次获得国内外新闻奖项，其中2022年至2024年连续三届获得亚洲卓越新闻奖（SOPA）——被称为“亚洲普利策”。她也是语言即世界工作室的创始人。 “如果我的访谈能陪你走一段孤独的未知的路，也许有一天可以离目的地更近一点，我就很温暖。”——张小珺 Feed: https://feed.xyzfm.space/dk4yh3pkpjp3 ## Latest episodes - [155. 和科沃斯钱程聊，父与子、企二代接班的样本与肌理、机器人，和我内心的追寻](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1634356920/31bb3eeb05af) (2026-10-21, 120 min): audio https://dts-api.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/track/626b46ea9cbbf0451cf5a962/6ad4dacd641ef406308d86e5/media.xyzcdn.net/626b46ea9cbbf0451cf5a962/ltpY6K_PLBv7SfR1D4RZchFHwzII.m4a - [154. 对Dyna创始人Lindon的3小时访谈：机器人世界的迷雾、分歧与抉择，修心、《沉思录》与王阳明](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1634356920/46297ee9430e) (2026-10-15, 172 min): audio https://dts-api.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/track/626b46ea9cbbf0451cf5a962/6acf81f0195d838e2af1e281/media.xyzcdn.net/626b46ea9cbbf0451cf5a962/lssO9j-p6L7ZGWAwhIB14zJXksFQ.m4a - [153. 和曾鸣聊产业史观：残酷的真相、会消亡的公司、优秀≠卓越、“OAI、Anth大概率不是原生时代大赢家”](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1634356920/ecf1b9ddc602) (2026-09-03, 155 min): audio https://dts-api.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/track/626b46ea9cbbf0451cf5a962/6a97f287f03e74ee6b03ea5b/media.xyzcdn.net/626b46ea9cbbf0451cf5a962/luZvhPtdKotbkVR-SHFRKVVUiM2P.m4a - [152. 领读Kimi K3技术报告：从架构创新聊起，注意力美学、多教师蒸馏和开源MoE](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1634356920/418b313dbc1d) (2026-08-26, 125 min): audio https://dts-api.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/track/626b46ea9cbbf0451cf5a962/6a8eadd61352af56ff3c6017/media.xyzcdn.net/626b46ea9cbbf0451cf5a962/lrVnGxoafcZ7vzH8HywULkwNb6n6.m4a - [151. 17岁被2026年ICML收录论文的小少年：我bet开心！开心！开心！](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1634356920/b08fe33ebefe) (2026-08-19, 70 min): audio https://dts-api.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/track/626b46ea9cbbf0451cf5a962/6a8472b95aeb2a5712e8de78/media.xyzcdn.net/626b46ea9cbbf0451cf5a962/lgS-qEdm2hDrXRFKGNSPhG4I5h5U.m4a - [150. 对英伟达研究副总裁刘洺堉的4小时访谈：功夫、Cosmos 3、开源世界模型、黄仁勋、你不需要击败所有对手](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1634356920/2323226d177f) (2026-08-12, 217 min): audio https://dts-api.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/track/626b46ea9cbbf0451cf5a962/6a7cbeb017676351c5710266/media.xyzcdn.net/626b46ea9cbbf0451cf5a962/lghqbPI7EHExAvJv1gjRFV_24k8Y.m4a - [149. 亲历中美neo labs资本狂潮，和清华刘子鸣聊：AI for AI、机制可解释性和Max Tegmark](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1634356920/c3553f6195f0) (2026-07-30, 101 min): audio https://dts-api.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/track/626b46ea9cbbf0451cf5a962/6a69b07eb581962ce2bd4d97/media.xyzcdn.net/626b46ea9cbbf0451cf5a962/lm33Q4N6w8TZcd2fXDBUK9UnC2xv.m4a - [148. 对游凯超3小时访谈：开源Infra、和模型Co-design 、“如果vLLM失败，我们会后悔一辈子”](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1634356920/5af77baa2bc9) (2026-07-28, 181 min): audio https://dts-api.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/track/626b46ea9cbbf0451cf5a962/6a66ed17a3fec224d5a3f744/media.xyzcdn.net/626b46ea9cbbf0451cf5a962/lg-fhgPMq4r-8L_-5_YRimxgkIms.m4a - [147. 和蚂蚁灵波沈宇军聊：机器人原生基础模型、大脑和本体的关系、预训练与数据scale up、老师汤晓鸥](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1634356920/8776cb83edc9) (2026-07-22, 113 min): audio https://dts-api.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/track/626b46ea9cbbf0451cf5a962/6a5f79b3a3fec224d5a128cd/media.xyzcdn.net/626b46ea9cbbf0451cf5a962/luXTyuAfi_2ONiM15fW6Lpypo2GA.m4a - [146. 对Physical Intelligence柯丽一鸣4小时访谈：Pi的开源模型研究，机器人的江湖、族谱与主角](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1634356920/5c4b1044c4ef) (2026-07-16, 229 min): audio https://dts-api.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/track/626b46ea9cbbf0451cf5a962/6a57a05da4972c496dfc67f1/media.xyzcdn.net/626b46ea9cbbf0451cf5a962/ljmazvdvAd7O5mD-Nuiompd6_1NV.m4a - [145. 口述SpaceX开发史：和前高管洪力德聊，马斯克用人观、最大IPO、太空与AI、人类文明扩张前奏？](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1634356920/e0e7476d8fb3) (2026-06-12, 182 min): audio https://dts-api.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/track/626b46ea9cbbf0451cf5a962/6a2be5da43a22a695582ad20/media.xyzcdn.net/626b46ea9cbbf0451cf5a962/lua5jan_xOpZ99VwXmLshdTC-gSp.m4a - [144. 对阳萌的4小时访谈：消费电子死与生、第三类公司、端侧模型、产品方法、游戏模式](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1634356920/d27d2a920ddd) (2026-06-08, 219 min): audio https://dts-api.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/track/626b46ea9cbbf0451cf5a962/6a2543dcb30e1571aea20d0b/media.xyzcdn.net/626b46ea9cbbf0451cf5a962/lnjlEQjGjo1TxuPOuvYgmDV7oo8B.m4a - [143. 对何小鹏的第二次访谈：更大赌注、人形机器人Iron诞生、那场意外、技术剧变下CEO、GX和缝合怪](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1634356920/1f4e21e3c87d) (2026-05-28, 89 min): audio https://dts-api.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/track/626b46ea9cbbf0451cf5a962/6a170f747460cabdeb56dabb/media.xyzcdn.net/626b46ea9cbbf0451cf5a962/ljeKstsAfrj-oVTm2bpL92S4nwoc.m4a - [142. 雨森的创投观察第2集：Harness、下一个字节、2026大机会和Stanley Druckenmiller](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1634356920/7f08739fee38) (2026-05-27, 139 min): audio https://dts-api.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/track/626b46ea9cbbf0451cf5a962/6a15a2cbff7b9a8c0a5b953f/media.xyzcdn.net/626b46ea9cbbf0451cf5a962/lg4SPHlAUnrJuULqRaXS_1Gc5ufZ.m4a - [141. Freda的投资札记第2集：Tokenmaxxing、把电机塞进蒸汽机、接力赛变篮球赛、孤独、人的连接](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1634356920/1fe038b6ed33) (2026-05-18, 84 min): audio https://dts-api.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/track/626b46ea9cbbf0451cf5a962/6a09d58b1b7bd502955258ab/media.xyzcdn.net/626b46ea9cbbf0451cf5a962/lmeczS2JtKzE79rKpVM-RC5yw22M.m4a - [140. 对姚顺宇的4小时访谈：请允许我小疯一下！在Anthropic和Gemini训模型、技术预测、英雄主义已过去](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1634356920/07f5bbbae0af) (2026-05-11, 231 min): audio https://dts-api.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/track/626b46ea9cbbf0451cf5a962/6a00aa051b7bd50295dfe41d/media.xyzcdn.net/626b46ea9cbbf0451cf5a962/ll7qIcIWWGFSsORHr4yY-UuqAe8h.m4a - [139. 【Agent的综述】和苏煜聊Agent技术史、OpenClaw Moment、边界的消弭和社会的辐射](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1634356920/3a398dcf424e) (2026-05-01, 138 min): audio https://dts-api.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/track/626b46ea9cbbf0451cf5a962/69f3857a5c60a99573fea0c2/media.xyzcdn.net/626b46ea9cbbf0451cf5a962/luffrgudEiiGHQxam49tfQci63NO.m4a - [138. 对罗福莉3.5小时访谈：AI范式已然巨变！OpenClaw、Agent范式很吃后训练、卡的分配、组织平权](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1634356920/6834d28b582a) (2026-04-24, 217 min): audio https://dts-api.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/track/626b46ea9cbbf0451cf5a962/69eae15a1e94ae692107cc50/media.xyzcdn.net/626b46ea9cbbf0451cf5a962/lvjthrP5i6nloL64YOJ_JDDRa4WF.m4a - [137. 对洪乐潼的4小时访谈：AI for Math、把数学变成Lean、数学天书中的证明、直觉、被创造与被发现的](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1634356920/ccb128430c9a) (2026-04-20, 265 min): audio https://dts-api.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/track/626b46ea9cbbf0451cf5a962/69e4e6951d989496e7fecc7b/media.xyzcdn.net/626b46ea9cbbf0451cf5a962/lha_FAiWxTGet0QMbcOSts3cb5Vb.m4a - [136. 全球大模型季报第9集：和广密聊，Coding是AGI第二幕、硅谷御三家真相、模型正成为新一代OS](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1634356920/1b9254286373) (2026-04-14, 83 min): audio https://dts-api.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/track/626b46ea9cbbf0451cf5a962/69de68cfb977fb2c47f1ee14/media.xyzcdn.net/626b46ea9cbbf0451cf5a962/lh_CQyoSs_DztmYB5kmBjaPA6W9V.m4a - [135. 和自然选择创始人Tristan聊，Elys、赛博分身、灵魂、Context的获取与流动和AI社交网络](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1634356920/b7cc6e20add9) (2026-04-10, 113 min): audio https://dts-api.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/track/626b46ea9cbbf0451cf5a962/69d8bbdfe2c8be3155dcc2fe/media.xyzcdn.net/626b46ea9cbbf0451cf5a962/ltwEGwVo7grn_V-Rft0TXlMqmcty.m4a - [134. 【数据的综述】和谢晨聊，新时代的石油、历史、版图、数据金字塔、定价与Recipe](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1634356920/175f101b2fde) (2026-03-30, 159 min): audio https://dts-api.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/track/626b46ea9cbbf0451cf5a962/69c953b4b977fb2c478df5c3/media.xyzcdn.net/626b46ea9cbbf0451cf5a962/lkInPy65_ZR4cQmK23rmHJ_hhLVQ.m4a - [133. 对谢赛宁的7小时马拉松访谈：世界模型、逃出硅谷、AMI Labs、两次拒绝Ilya、杨立昆、李飞飞和42](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1634356920/df659a10ea17) (2026-03-16, 406 min): audio https://dts-api.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/track/626b46ea9cbbf0451cf5a962/69b77577f8b8079bfa8eb837/media.xyzcdn.net/626b46ea9cbbf0451cf5a962/lqXBPXddXfukbdlAP-NDrFNp-2wn.m4a - [132. 对星海图创始人高继扬的3小时访谈：鲶鱼、曾国藩、Waymo与Momenta的两面、一只狼与许华哲的离开](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1634356920/f39474a76244) (2026-02-13, 185 min): audio https://dts-api.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/track/626b46ea9cbbf0451cf5a962/698ebb0b66e2c30377510cf6/media.xyzcdn.net/626b46ea9cbbf0451cf5a962/lplNqS9I0z2b64zp9zF2h6EkhXjr.m4a - [131. 印奇出任阶跃星辰董事长的访谈：聪明人的诱惑、取舍、超长链路残酷淘汰赛、阶跃函数和超多元方程](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1634356920/b463f64f435b) (2026-01-26, 122 min): audio https://dts-api.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/track/626b46ea9cbbf0451cf5a962/6976bdf0ef1cf272a76fa9f3/media.xyzcdn.net/626b46ea9cbbf0451cf5a962/lo-xQNj9qSh16zHeUQI6pQ3jOkjq.m4a - [130. 张月光创业两年首次访谈：妙鸭不是AI Native产品、流程到上下文设计、One Way Door和乙女游戏](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1634356920/fdbc93e6940b) (2026-01-22, 195 min): audio https://dts-api.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/track/626b46ea9cbbf0451cf5a962/6970c1e0109824f9e1c60e7a/media.xyzcdn.net/626b46ea9cbbf0451cf5a962/loO-1ybVpymqgCDLe0P0iLTL9ueO.m4a - [129. 全球大模型第一股的上市访谈，和智谱CEO张鹏聊：敢问路在何方？](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1634356920/f5e089cf3892) (2026-01-08, 147 min): audio https://dts-api.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/track/626b46ea9cbbf0451cf5a962/695f008dc1e012a7abf0be09/media.xyzcdn.net/626b46ea9cbbf0451cf5a962/liEES-JtJxuXJqZStaCtRdJmWHWb.m4a - [128. 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Freda的投资札记第1集：下注OpenAI、Robinhood往事，美国资本坏小孩、算盘与泡沫](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1634356920/f49767dee6ec) (2025-12-16, 85 min): audio https://dts-api.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/track/626b46ea9cbbf0451cf5a962/694180874c65abaff3576bc4/media.xyzcdn.net/626b46ea9cbbf0451cf5a962/lsrDKieZADVUCDFfO6k_FABduDMz.m4a - [124. 雨森的创投观察第1集：2026年预期、The Year of R、回调、我们如何下注](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1634356920/dc7da1146189) (2025-12-13, 204 min): audio https://dts-api.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/track/626b46ea9cbbf0451cf5a962/693d7c172a383da167ecfcde/media.xyzcdn.net/626b46ea9cbbf0451cf5a962/lk_UTklYIZcaJcEa0AJvX95W15mZ.m4a - [123. 对ONE2X创始人王冠3小时访谈：生成系统、没有中间商赚差价、内容平台的权力分配](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1634356920/fb147d6bcff5) (2025-12-12, 223 min): audio https://dts-api.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/track/626b46ea9cbbf0451cf5a962/693bc72b37f52a644e8e2550/media.xyzcdn.net/626b46ea9cbbf0451cf5a962/lr4mcNJtun977VXGlgIKuhvFK_zD.m4a - [122. 朱啸虎现实主义故事的第三次连载：人工智能的盛筵与泡泡](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1634356920/364f6abbe748) (2025-12-09, 48 min): audio https://dts-api.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/track/626b46ea9cbbf0451cf5a962/693834013fec3166cf262bd0/media.xyzcdn.net/626b46ea9cbbf0451cf5a962/lt8N4mGIZOL0FRxV0kUOVoqOnFu5.m4a - [121. 对DeepMind谭捷的访谈：机器人、跨本体、世界模型、Gemini Robotics 1.5和Google](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1634356920/b92b96c308f5) (2025-11-28, 127 min): audio https://dts-api.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/track/626b46ea9cbbf0451cf5a962/692965c0ba2292550f3551f7/media.xyzcdn.net/626b46ea9cbbf0451cf5a962/lpZ3Gpi6rsvxUOt1HLD3I3UAGFkV.m4a - [120. 小鹏新上任的刘先明首次访谈：Language是毒药、拆掉L、简单即美、换帅、小鹏的AI转型](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1634356920/4daba290634c) (2025-11-18, 109 min): audio https://dts-api.xiaoyuzhoufm.com/track/626b46ea9cbbf0451cf5a962/691c3670cbba038b421f74a4/media.xyzcdn.net/626b46ea9cbbf0451cf5a962/lizzF5iif1SZsxWJF-ALiY1Ug-Ap.m4a - [119. 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