# Operator10x - Inside Cantabil's Retail Success in India - Shivendra Nigam, CFO, Cantabil India

An episode of [VC10X - Investing, Venture Capital, Asset Management, Family Office, Wealth Management](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1632806986), 22 Jul 2025, 49 min.

Audio: https://anchor.fm/s/a453ddd4/podcast/play/105829975/https%3A%2F%2Fd3ctxlq1ktw2nl.cloudfront.net%2Fstaging%2F2025-6-22%2F404333408-44100-2-bdad16176ca69.mp3

In this episode, I sit down with Shivendra Nigam, CFO of Cantabil, one of India's most successful and enduring apparel brands. Cantabil, founded in 2000, has scaled to over 600 stores across 20 states—while remaining debt-free and laser-focused on sustainable, profitable growth. The conversation covers bold expansion strategies, secrets of margin protection in a fiercely competitive fashion market, the brand's unique positioning in India's family apparel segment, and why disciplined retail operations matter more than chasing numbers. ⭐ Sponsored by Podcast10x - Podcasting agency for VCs - https://podcast10x.com Cantabil website - https://cantabilshop.com/ 🎙️ Hosted by Prashant Choubey Follow Prashant on X - https://x.com/ChoubeySahabFollow Prashant on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/choubeysahab We talk about: - Cantabil’s journey: Lessons from 25+ years in Indian retail - The pros and cons of a debt-free growth model - Why Cantabil shuns discounts—and how that impacts brand value - The power of tier 2, 3, and 4 city expansion in India - Growing e-commerce to complement a dominant brick-and-mortar presence - Homegrown success metrics: store selection, inventory discipline, and profitability - The evolving Indian appetite for fashion—and Cantabil’s vision for the future Connect with Us: If you enjoyed this episode, please rate and subscribe. For guest requests and feedback, email us at prashantchoubey3@gmail.com

## Transcript

[0:00] We are debt free company not for aware for last 4-5 years we are
[0:04] operating approximately 5657% gross margin.
[0:07] We have been protecting, we are opening only those number of
[0:11] stores which is from internal accrual only you in case some
[0:15] portion of discount you will get the sales right.
[0:18] But once you are giving this freebies to the customer, it is
[0:21] very, very difficult to take it back, I'm telling you.
[0:26] Hey everyone. This is Prashant and I'll be
[0:28] host for the VC to Next podcast. And today we have Shivendra with
[0:31] us. Shivendra is the CFO of
[0:33] Cantebill, one of India's most successful and enduring apparel
[0:38] brands. Cantebill, founded in 2000, has
[0:40] scaled to over 600 stores across 20 states while remaining debt
[0:45] free and laser focused on sustainable, profitable growth.
[0:49] The conversation covers bold expansion strategies, secrets of
[0:52] margin protection in a furiously competitive fashion market, the
[0:56] brand's unique positioning in India's family apparel segment
[1:00] and wide discipline retail operation matter more than
[1:02] changing numbers. So without wasting any time,
[1:05] let's dive straight in. This episode is sponsored by my
[1:08] own podcasting agency called Podcast 10X, where I help
[1:11] venture capitalists, asset managers, allocators and family
[1:14] offices and starting their own podcast and building a strong
[1:17] brand. Podcast NX is designed in a way
[1:20] to work well with the busy schedule of investors where we
[1:24] handle every aspect of podcast production so you can focus on
[1:27] investing. If you're looking to build a
[1:30] strong investor brand, starting a podcast should be right up
[1:34] your priority list. It's the only form of marketing
[1:37] where you can showcase your strong network.
[1:39] In other words, access to limited partners and founders
[1:43] and grow that network further. And contrary to what most people
[1:46] here, it's still very early to start a podcast.
[1:49] There are at least 10X more newsletters and thousand X more
[1:52] blogs than there are podcasts in this world.
[1:56] You can learn more about our podcasting services at Podcast
[1:59] ten-x.com. I'll make sure to add the link
[2:02] in the description below. Enjoy this episode.
[2:05] Hey Shirendra, it's so good to have you on the VC10X podcast.
[2:07] How are you doing? I'm going to thank you for
[2:10] having me on your show. Thanks for doing great.
[2:12] Thank you. Yeah, glad to have you on.
[2:14] I think it's the first time we are hosting a public company CFO
[2:18] on the podcast. So it's also a first for the
[2:20] podcast as well. Also the Puget Company like
[2:24] Canterbill that we're going to be talking about, right.
[2:26] So very excited for this. So to start with, how would you
[2:29] assess Canterbill's competitive position in the very comparative
[2:34] Indian apparel sector compared to the major rivals out there?
[2:39] So what to tell about cantable, You know, probably in organized
[2:44] retail, if you'll see this one is the oldest 1 specifically in
[2:47] the region N based. We started it, but it's still
[2:50] today all over India. We are there, right?
[2:53] So very, you know, so hardly you will be finding such a long term
[2:58] sustainable brand. 25 more than 25 year old brand to accountable
[3:02] as a brand. We started in 2000.
[3:05] Many brands come up and go, but we are still there, right,
[3:08] Because we are a believer always in a long term sustainable way.
[3:11] So we made our positions, no doubt we made our positions in a
[3:14] way that it's so you don't be accountable is always been in a
[3:18] brand where you know, young aspirant customers is always you
[3:23] know, lucrative on them, right. Any aspirational, you know,
[3:28] youngster wanted to associate with the brand specifically if
[3:32] you said here 234 or beyond countables are perfect for them.
[3:36] So we made our presence, we made our mark for last 35 years.
[3:40] This is a pretty, we started in the year 2000, you know so
[3:44] continuously Conti we are all over India Today except South
[3:48] India a little bit. So our competitive position is
[3:51] very, very, very strong, where in fact the you know, what is
[3:55] biggest plus for us in any of the brand you say there are
[4:00] specifically in fashion. If you go it would be hardly
[4:04] found a brand specifically in EB OS who is selling such a large
[4:08] variety, whether it's a formal, whether it's a casual, There are
[4:12] brands who are very good in, you know, formal wear competitive
[4:16] search are there in whether it's a formal wear.
[4:17] Few brands are very good in a Europe casual beer.
[4:21] But cantable is such a brand under one roof.
[4:23] Probably the only brand which is having such a deep range of
[4:27] formal wear, you know, casual wear, women's wear, kids
[4:32] accessories. So it's a whole, you know, whole
[4:34] family wear brand is there, but we are trying to grow it as
[4:37] well. So that's that's great.
[4:39] Cantable is known for this one. So great.
[4:43] Absolutely. Yeah.
[4:45] It's interesting. The brand Canterville is almost
[4:48] as old as I am, right? So I'm also 2000 year born, so
[4:52] it's like about 24. Absolutely, Canterville be also
[4:55] born in the year 2000. You are going, we are also going
[4:58] great. Exactly.
[5:00] Both going stronger. Great.
[5:04] What have been the primary drivers behind Canterville's
[5:08] consistent double digit revenue and volume growth in the recent
[5:13] years? So if you see we are constantly
[5:17] growing approximately at the CSER of approximately 20% plus
[5:22] right last five, 6-7 years, the history you can take.
[5:26] So as we I just said we are the believer you know long term
[5:30] sustainable business cantable apart from tier one cities, tier
[5:34] one cities if you say hardly 8 big cities in the India, Tier 2
[5:38] and tier 3 expansion, we are very sound in terms of our
[5:42] expansion right. So how doesn't mean we are a
[5:46] cash raise company. We do not believe in decks and
[5:49] other things. So we can have a you know store
[5:52] opening number of a number of stores can be opened but we
[5:55] restricted our self and we know how our brand positioning is and
[5:58] how many stores are viable to open.
[6:01] So 7080 stores net of we are been opening constantly.
[6:05] We do not believe it in the numbers still we are 600 plus
[6:09] stores all over India right now. It we are registered in 20
[6:12] states, we are doing business is 20 states in India.
[6:15] But we are not a believer in number game.
[6:17] It's a 600 plus stores or even 500 plus store would have been
[6:20] there unless until as a business you are profitable that is what
[6:24] required in terms of business swipe.
[6:26] At the end of the day, we are here for business and business
[6:29] is about not only top line, it is about bottom line as well,
[6:32] right. So we are very constant in
[6:34] maintaining our top line with the sustainable growth as well
[6:37] as bottom line. So the drivers if you see
[6:39] sustainable numbers of a store openings, we are continuously
[6:43] having 708090 stores we are opening going forward there is a
[6:47] plan to increase them but no store is running in the losses.
[6:51] We do not believe in running in the losses.
[6:53] So this is what the primary goal for us to have a constant double
[6:57] digit growth. At the same time it is important
[7:00] for us to have a same store sales loan because obviously
[7:03] retail is a business we have seen from a long time is a
[7:06] business of expense. We all know what will do at that
[7:10] moment. You are strongly positioning
[7:13] debit phase of our PNL, you will be able to sustain.
[7:16] So we are controlling cost going forward also.
[7:19] So these are the 2 three main drivers, consistent growth in
[7:22] terms of number of stores, concentrating on the same
[7:25] stores, sales growth as well as controlling our cost.
[7:29] These are the few parameters specifically looking for the
[7:32] retail. But since you know that Cantable
[7:35] isn't the day it has been born. I also grown up with them
[7:38] because my professional career is approximately 2122 years and
[7:42] is luckily it was in retail only.
[7:45] So I only seen the companies to be close specifically in retail,
[7:48] right. Retail has always been in
[7:50] stress. So we we know how to grow
[7:52] limited growth, good growth, long term sustainable growth
[7:56] containing our margins. That is very important.
[7:59] And when you are being optimizing continuous
[8:01] optimization of cost processes more.
[8:04] So these are the 2 three main drivers, sustainable growth, few
[8:08] number of 7080 stores to be open, focus on same store sales
[8:11] work and controlling cost. Got it.
[8:14] Is that that's quite interesting.
[8:16] And with that large and solid focus on retail sector, right,
[8:21] nowadays we are seeing brands moving online and new brands
[8:24] coming up, even startups starting to compete in the
[8:27] apparel space, right. So how do you look at that from
[8:31] the company's perspective? Have you looked?
[8:33] We thought that, OK, maybe we should also build an online
[8:35] presence and also start selling E com in an e-commerce way and
[8:40] you know, build that business also or do you still want to
[8:43] continue your strong focus on the retail presence?
[8:48] So just for the information, we are also in online as well.
[8:53] e-commerce also is there. We started it late around three
[8:57] years back we started e-commerce, but today Canterbury
[9:01] is equally presents both in equally presents in you know
[9:06] e-commerce is contribution is also good whether it's a market
[9:10] player as well as own website. The for your information for the
[9:14] larger audience information. We are very well presents in our
[9:17] e-commerce platform when three years back post pandemic, we
[9:20] only started it right when we started three years back FY23, I
[9:25] remember we just started it though the business was hardly 2
[9:29] 1/2% but we make it 2.5 X next year that is FY24 and FY25 we
[9:36] have given approximately 6% of over 6 1/2% of our total
[9:41] revenue. Last year we did approximately
[9:43] 721 CR of the revenue out of which my 6 1/2% of the revenue
[9:49] from e-commerce section, right. And as I just told we are
[9:54] present in all the marketplace leading whether it's a Myntra,
[9:58] RGO, Flipkart, Amazon as well as own refund to Canterbill is very
[10:01] well present in the e-commerce section.
[10:03] And going forward our plan is very clear down the line.
[10:06] Next two year we are very much visible in terms of making the
[10:09] mark of thousand crore revenue company by FI 27, the Canterbill
[10:13] is going to cross the thousand crore revenue company.
[10:15] And obviously next four to five years we are planning to make it
[10:18] from 1000 to 2000 crore when I'm talking about 1000 crore, we are
[10:21] very different positions to take a 10% of approximate revenue
[10:24] from the e-commerce segment. So these are the challenges
[10:28] because if you are there in fashion, if you are there in the
[10:30] garment retail, you have to be there in e-commerce channel.
[10:33] So all the channels has to be open.
[10:35] All the channels for the consumer is required to open.
[10:38] Today if you go to the market, consumer first browse their app
[10:42] and web, they go to the shop and buy or even the reverse is that
[10:48] they buy and they go so it's there.
[10:50] So it's a by default if you are there in your fashion business
[10:54] already to e-commerce has to be there.
[10:56] So we are very well there in the e-commerce where the sale is
[11:00] coming good as whatever expectation as I just told going
[11:03] forward we are thriving and going to thrive in this section
[11:06] as well. So great online, offline, Omni
[11:10] channels, all the possible avenues are there for the
[11:12] cantable. Absolutely.
[11:14] Yeah, that's great. Inside there that cannibal is
[11:18] already building a strong online presence and the revenues
[11:21] already growing on that front as well, right.
[11:23] So to dig a little bit deeper on the retail front, because I know
[11:27] that's the complex piece of the puzzle that you seem to have
[11:30] cracked, right, as a brand, right.
[11:32] How do you make the decision whether to start opening store
[11:37] in a particular state, right? And how do you choose which
[11:40] location to pick for the store to be opened, right?
[11:45] Does it have to be, you know, top tier malls always where you
[11:48] get a store and start selling there or maybe the local?
[11:51] I've seen scantible stores in local markets as well at at very
[11:55] strategic locations as well where the footfall is very high.
[11:57] So can you give me an insight into the thought thought process
[12:01] behind what store to open, where to open and how do you determine
[12:06] the success of the store after it has opened?
[12:09] So yes, selection of this tool is very important in retailing.
[12:13] We are always believer the selection is a base and
[12:18] obviously it is the retail is all about location, location,
[12:21] location very important specifically in fashion.
[12:24] So first of all, for the information, we are mainly a
[12:29] highest rate dominated brand. We are very few business in
[12:32] mall. However, 10% of our out of 600
[12:35] stores, approximately 5060 stores are there in mall.
[12:37] But we are more keen about the High Street footfall and any of
[12:41] the good market whether it's NCR, NCR itself, we are having
[12:44] 900 store approximately you will find candle bill is there
[12:48] because footfall is absolutely buzzing in terms of high state
[12:51] market. Hey.
[12:53] So coming back to your question about how we are selecting our
[12:57] stores in terms of selection and how we are monitoring our
[13:00] stores. So there are few basic right
[13:03] areas. We are giving approximately 1.2
[13:06] to 1.3 CRS of revenue per store as of now, right.
[13:12] Obviously there are stores who are giving plus 2 + 3 CR if you
[13:15] are. So there is a larger RBF for
[13:18] selection of the stores. I'll say there are few
[13:21] parameters which we have been always monitoring before opening
[13:24] a stores like the obviously there should be today very
[13:27] important in terms of fashion people are going with the
[13:29] family, right. So it's not about spending on
[13:33] just buying the clothes or buying the garments.
[13:37] It's a day of outing as well for them.
[13:39] Today in scenario hardly people are getting you know one day in
[13:42] a week and when the you are been getting whole one day in terms
[13:46] of shopping you need good space, good space, good shopping
[13:49] experience. So but there are few parameters
[13:52] can double is a store where you see today it's any of the store
[13:55] you see it's a high class store, high class store no doubt about
[13:59] it for selection of the stores. Obviously when you come to the
[14:01] financial we are targeting to not to wear potential revenue.
[14:05] We don't see less than once here on an annual basis.
[14:07] So these are the basic parameters.
[14:09] Facade should be should be 25th, right.
[14:12] There should be a proper parking space.
[14:14] So these are the financial and other KP is to opening stores
[14:18] mainly to open a store. These are the basic KP is what
[14:20] we are being followed. However, giving the greatest of
[14:24] the ambience in terms of shopping, shopping experience
[14:27] for the customer, we are keeping it and we are keeping it.
[14:29] Obviously there are few decisions out of these larger
[14:32] store when you're opening approximately 100 stores every
[14:35] year. So there are few percentage of
[14:37] the stores are bound to get close based on the performance.
[14:39] So we monitor also 2-3 months obviously store is required
[14:42] approximately 2 to 2 1/2 years of maturity, right.
[14:45] So when we are giving this a budget even it's not working
[14:48] properly as per our expectation, the few stores are get closer.
[14:52] So for opening of the stores larger, it should given
[14:55] approximately as per our estimate on the basis of area
[14:59] and not should given less than once year of the revenue.
[15:01] There should be a proper facade proper you know parking space
[15:05] should have been there. Then we are decided to go to the
[15:07] stores and we are opening this. Right.
[15:10] Absolutely. How is Canada leveraging its
[15:14] presence in Tier 2 and 3 Tier 3 cities to gain market share?
[15:20] And I just told you going forward, it's retail or garment.
[15:25] Retail is not about only tier one cities, not only big cities
[15:28] like Mumbai, Delhi, Kolkata, Bangalore, Ahmedabad and these
[15:33] eight cities which are coming in that tier cities, even the Tier
[15:36] 2 cities are bigger than a few of the tier one cities and tier
[15:40] 3 and Tier 4 requirement and the demand is absolute, absolute
[15:47] great than young aspirant customers who are in the bracket
[15:51] of crossing 20 to 25 stores. Because Canterville is such a
[15:53] brand where you can start your career from 20 years and even if
[15:57] you are to a retiring age 60 to 70 years, we are there to serve
[16:01] you absolutely no doubt about it 20 to 6070 year.
[16:05] So leveraging our position in Tier 2 and Tier 3 cities is very
[16:09] important and we our opening majority of the stores what we
[16:13] are opening going forward as well.
[16:15] And last 2-3 if we are opening it is in Tier 2, Tier 3 and even
[16:18] Tier 4 cities. Because in many of the places we
[16:22] are always getting shared in terms of first mover advantage.
[16:25] First mover advantage has always been there for us and we created
[16:29] as a cantable such an old band specifically in north and you
[16:33] can say Maharashtra side or Gujarat side, western part of
[16:35] the India, South India. Obviously we are not yet moved.
[16:38] It will be down the line 2/3 as we are moving it.
[16:42] We are creating the market. No doubt about it.
[16:44] Many of the places we moved and market has been created.
[16:48] So Tier 2, Tier 3 cities, continuous expansion would have
[16:51] been there, huge success is there huge demand is there in
[16:55] terms of young aspirant customer.
[16:57] Because I told you now we are being positioned in a very fine
[17:01] place in terms of ASP Canterbill is a canterbill is a brand which
[17:06] is operating in aasp of approximately ₹1100.
[17:10] There are brand and we are positioning ourselves as a mid
[17:13] premium segment Canterbill perfect for mid premium segment
[17:17] position of a target audiences mid previous segment.
[17:20] There are brands who are serving at say you know, 400 five ₹100
[17:23] of you know, lower middle segment and there are obviously
[17:27] premium and delta premium brand, right.
[17:29] If a shirt is coming at a you know, office going Boyer office
[17:32] going young customer can customer want to go to the
[17:35] office? They want to set up 2222 twenty
[17:38] and if cantable is perfect for that on a daily basis, right?
[17:41] There are players who are selling 3004 thousand right?
[17:44] So for this Tier 2, Tier 3 and even beyond you look at for
[17:48] Canada is perfectly there. We are opening majority of the
[17:51] stored in Tier 2-3 and beyond and we are perfectly leveraging
[17:54] our position. Absolutely, Yeah.
[17:56] Thanks for sharing that. And what is Canada's road map to
[18:00] achieve the thousand crore target revenue by fiscal year
[18:04] 2728, and what strategies are in place to support that?
[18:10] So as I just told 2 three things are important for us.
[18:15] It's we are just scrolling, we are clocking like last year we
[18:18] closed our revenue of you know 721 CR and we are continuously
[18:23] growing with the CAGR up 30%. So FY20 7 is clearly hitting the
[18:29] thousand crore of revenue. So how do achieve this thousand
[18:32] crore and not only thousand crore from thousand crore to
[18:35] 1500 or 2000 crores journey would be there and the plan is
[18:38] there for this. So how does it going to be
[18:40] achieved? This other target as I just told
[18:43] you we are expecting 2022% of candid growth continuously.
[18:47] How this 2022% is going to be achieved as your question
[18:50] question is required. So for us it is important to
[18:53] have a same store sales growth as approximately 7 to 8% because
[18:57] obviously when retail are there every year 4 to 5% expenses are
[19:00] increasing, salaries to be increasing, rent to be increased
[19:03] and other expenses to be increased.
[19:05] So 6 to 7% of the growth, what we have been expecting from the
[19:08] same store sales growth, it has to be, it has to come and it
[19:11] will come. And then as I just mentioned, we
[19:15] are just pushing ourselves and for e-commerce as well when the
[19:20] thousand crore would be there. With this growth 8 to 10%, we
[19:24] are targeting 100 crore of the revenue.
[19:25] You can say broadly 8200 crore of the revenue from the
[19:28] e-commerce segment. Apart from this, not only
[19:31] thousand crore, 2000 crore road map will have a very important
[19:34] rule. We started, we are a out of 600.
[19:36] We are a complete family. We are brand right.
[19:39] However, initially it was men's dominated the men's 50% of the
[19:43] men's stored in the family where now we started a specific
[19:47] exclusive stored in terms of ladies and kids.
[19:50] We have a 45X family where the stores are 50% is there where
[19:54] ladies is there men's is there out of the six in the store.
[19:56] But now the market is just, you know, accepting the ladies where
[20:00] however, we are there in from 2018 ladies.
[20:03] But now we started opening exclusive stores for ladies and
[20:06] kids as well, right? So we have a 45 stores as of now
[20:10] to going forward from 1000 to 2000 crore journey.
[20:13] What had this will have a pivotal role in terms of
[20:15] expansion, right ladies and kids, because this is now on.
[20:20] So our like this, we have a 600 stores going forward, it is 18
[20:24] nineties stores a year. On year basis we can have a 200
[20:27] to 300 exclusive store for ladies and kids that could also
[20:31] be there like we started shooting.
[20:34] That's a tremendous response. This is just a hardly 6 month or
[20:36] one year over for business. They started giving revenue as
[20:39] per our expectation. So this can be a big range.
[20:43] So coming back to your question how to achieve 1000 crore, what
[20:45] are the levels for that or 2000 crore because 1000 has been done
[20:49] now we need to beyond think beyond it.
[20:51] So e-commerce would go to a very strong side.
[20:54] Ladies and kids stores are going to be very numbers of stored
[20:57] going to be increased shoe can have a readiness.
[21:01] So from this 1000 to 2000 journey is on, absolutely on.
[21:04] But we are always been a believer of long term
[21:07] sustainable number, good growth in terms of number of stores,
[21:11] keep the company debt free, that's important.
[21:14] Absolutely. Yeah, that's very good to see.
[21:16] And talking about the evolution of the company, so you've been
[21:21] at the company for some time now and the company has been around
[21:23] for 25 years. And in the past 25 years, we
[21:26] have seen changing times, especially as India are high
[21:30] growth nation that's changing every day, right.
[21:33] And people's priorities and choices are also changing every
[21:36] day on what they wear, what they want to wear, right?
[21:38] So how has the company evolved from that perspective?
[21:42] Like you said, now there are separate vertical starting for
[21:45] women, specialized stores and then kids as well.
[21:49] Maybe 25 years back, it was not required, right?
[21:51] But today it is, right? So can you give me more examples
[21:54] of how the company has understood the requirements of
[21:57] people and they're changing needs and cater to that and
[22:01] evolved because of that? So very interesting question.
[22:05] You asked when we started in 2000, then I can just for the
[22:10] discussion, I can break down the journey 2000 to 2010, then 2010
[22:16] to 2019, then pandemic came and obviously post that.
[22:21] So brand has been started in Sept 2010 and we got as a
[22:24] company Arcev listed in BST and as we are a listed entity and in
[22:29] 2010 so 1st 10 years obviously the company has been started by
[22:33] Mr. Vijay Bansal who is basically from he came in Delhi
[22:37] in 1987 and 1st 1012 years from 1989 company has been
[22:42] established and registered in the year 1989.
[22:45] Cantable brand is started in the year 2000, right?
[22:48] So before 10 years before starting the Cantable, he was in
[22:51] the accessories, garment, garment accessories business and
[22:55] anything what Benson said is factored these was leading
[22:57] there. That is why third thought
[22:59] process come further and establishing the bank to the
[23:01] cantable. So from 2000, 2010, obviously
[23:04] it's a journey of establishment company has been established,
[23:07] Cantable has been established, stores have been established
[23:10] specifically in North Sweden, Delhi and NCR.
[23:12] Reason you can say mainly then 2010 we got our sub listed in
[23:16] the year 2010 in the when 2008 the session came by the Lehman
[23:21] Brothers, if you say and 2010 garment was the most effective
[23:24] business. Many brands came in the market
[23:26] and vanished, right. I'll not take the name, but many
[23:29] brands are competitors and who who got vanished.
[23:33] So for us also it's the biggest learning honestly speaking 2010
[23:36] when the Canterville break 2010 and first three years, but three
[23:40] years of the poster we also make the losses because huge amount
[23:44] of inventory piled up in the market.
[23:45] Many brands came inventory. Also there a different
[23:49] discounting model started coming by this get this, buy this, get
[23:52] this other thing. So the quality of the garment
[23:54] was not been taken care of instead of is more focused on
[23:57] discounting and other things. So we also got suffered heavy
[24:00] losses, but very smartly Bunser server came to log in.
[24:04] If you want to run the company specifically commentated, you
[24:08] need to take some actions and he immediately learned he stopped
[24:11] all these schemes. By that time I remember there
[24:14] was another brand, there was approximately 400 post IPO
[24:19] Canterbill was also having approximately 400 four 150
[24:22] stores. There was another in V you know,
[24:25] economic economical brand has been launched by yes, that's a
[24:28] Lefanzo what we closed down completely because when you are
[24:32] too much of in the discount and other things we all know it's
[24:35] all about controlling your retail cost.
[24:38] So it started giving the losses so immediately.
[24:39] So good point is that he understood what the requirement
[24:42] of the market, what the requirement of the consumer and
[24:46] his vision. Obviously when I see I didn't
[24:47] see the visionary like this, but you know, so he visioned it.
[24:51] It would not he immediately shut down all the stores of Lafonso,
[24:56] cut down the source of loss winning and only left with 150
[25:00] stores. By the I'm talking about FY
[25:02] 2013, fourteen and the next three years.
[25:04] He completely kept the company in a correction mode.
[25:08] When I'm talking about correction, each and everything
[25:11] has been corrected. Starting from your store
[25:13] ambience, starting of your store furniture, starting from your
[25:17] girl garment quality, your policy in terms of discounting
[25:20] how much we are going to give and other all KP is probably.
[25:23] I can bet we are the best in basic in KPI.
[25:26] What is required in terms of retail?
[25:28] And then only when I joined the company in 2017, the day GST
[25:32] came, I find the company from that only the day FY18 we
[25:36] started expanding exactly. I remember it was 160 stores in
[25:40] FY 70 and 160 crore of the revenue.
[25:42] Then next year FY20 very cautiously we opened only 20
[25:46] stores and my closing number I exactly remained 190 stores, 196
[25:51] crore of revenue. Then only everything was set
[25:53] every then only we started from 100 and 50 or the store in 2017,
[25:58] eighteen, you can say. And today we have 4 * 4 times.
[26:01] Then journey came you say 2010 to 2019, Journey is there again
[26:05] we were set thanks to pandemic game, more learnings are there
[26:09] now learn more and do more. But we did not stop ourselves
[26:12] because we know unless until in retail specifically, if you
[26:17] stick on your basics, basics parameter of basic APIs, you
[26:21] will be there. So even in the year of pandemic,
[26:23] we opened thirty stores. People were just closing down
[26:26] the stores. And this one I exactly remain
[26:29] that FY20 21 when the pandemic had completely killed over first
[26:33] six months of the business. Next is when we did not stop
[26:35] ourselves. In fact, we created an
[26:37] opportunity. We were getting the properties
[26:39] on a better rental. We foresee the opportunity and
[26:42] get the board properties, the 30 stores we opened in the year
[26:45] FY21 and then it's again keep on moving.
[26:49] So that is coming back to your question, what the learnings and
[26:51] how the customer because that time what Bansal Sir has
[26:54] discussed and seen the inventory was completely piled up.
[26:57] But for mix and match he started producing 20% of new inventory.
[27:01] So what he realized specifically, I remember many
[27:03] times I discussed with him, whatever the new merchandise we
[27:07] are say giving to the stores, it's selling out and old.
[27:11] Then why? Why not making those only those
[27:13] merchandise which is required by the consumer only, right?
[27:16] So these are the learning phases.
[27:18] First three are the loss making phases.
[27:19] I say 2010 post IBO 2013. The next three years is most
[27:23] about the learning phases where we corrected everything.
[27:26] Everything is starting from the merchandise stores, ambience,
[27:29] everything. And then we only started from
[27:31] Fiat and they tell that you can see where we are.
[27:34] So understanding the government, understanding the consumer need
[27:38] 3 giving in the best of the shopping experience.
[27:41] As I just said, because shopping today specifically for leisure
[27:45] or garment, it's like a journey where you are spending your
[27:48] whole time whole day with the family and other you go to you
[27:51] need to This is our as a detainer of responsibility to
[27:54] give you the good ambience. We need to give you the feel
[27:57] good factor. Otherwise why there are a lot of
[27:59] competition there in the market. Why so?
[28:01] That is why So the learning understand the consumer given
[28:04] the best merchandise because quality is very important.
[28:07] Whatever a customer is ready to pay you 100 rupees ₹200 more for
[28:10] his shirts. But if the quality gone, you are
[28:13] gone. So our talent, so we are serving
[28:17] the best quality and very competitive price.
[28:19] So these are the learning and we are just driving now.
[28:22] Absolutely. Yeah.
[28:23] Thanks for sharing that story. It's an amazing story, right?
[28:26] And you, you talked about margins, right?
[28:29] And this being a very competitive space, a lot of big
[28:32] brands also competing with you, right?
[28:34] How do you maintain those margins and profitability as you
[28:39] expand your product range and store network, right, in this
[28:43] very competitive market because the competitor is also trying to
[28:47] capture market share, right? So how do you keep your profit
[28:51] share while also maintaining competitiveness and not letting
[28:54] other state market share? So for us, because incentives as
[28:59] you say margins, people are directly jumping from revenue to
[29:06] EBITDA margin. Whenever you discuss, even I
[29:09] discuss with my investor nothing because I know as I just told
[29:13] you, for me it is important how you are protecting your gross
[29:16] margin. The moment you will be able to
[29:19] protect your gross margin, the moment you will be able to
[29:22] protect your gross margin, a beta margin is bound to come
[29:26] unless until you are being able to, if you are being able to
[29:30] control the left hand side of your PNL account, right.
[29:34] If you are protecting your trading margin, which we are
[29:37] operating approximately 5657% gross margin, we have been
[29:41] protecting and you are controlling your cost, a beta
[29:43] margin is bound to come, right. So it has been there and I told
[29:47] you if you can compare, we are the best in terms of margins as
[29:50] far as compared to peers, better in fact, better in fact.
[29:54] So these are the basic things control your discounts because
[29:58] Garmin specifically after the evolution of e-commerce segment
[30:02] mostly it's been you know a discount e-commerce and giving
[30:07] their discounts and other brands are giving their discount
[30:09] competition is there. So you need to know how much
[30:12] gross margin you need to protect and how to protect it, how much
[30:15] discount you need to control. So we are based in controlling
[30:18] our discounts keeping our gross margin in hand.
[30:21] Obviously sale may you can get the sales, no doubt about it,
[30:24] you increase some portion of discount, you please keep some
[30:27] portion of discount, you will get the sales right.
[30:29] But once you are giving this freebies to the customer, it is
[30:32] very, very difficult to take it back.
[30:34] I'm telling you this is what I would experient at you.
[30:37] So this we need to say it's like a medicine, it's like a medicine
[30:40] to your you know patient. How much medicine is to be given
[30:45] and when medicine is to be given, it is very much required
[30:48] discount. The same how much of the
[30:49] discount is to be given and when the discount the scheme is to be
[30:52] given. The moment you increase that
[30:53] discount definitely one year you will get the good amount of
[30:56] failed, but later on this is bound to bounce back, right.
[30:59] So we are very well controlling our discounts and protecting our
[31:02] gross margin. The moment I protect our gross
[31:04] margin, I know how to control my expenses and then the margins
[31:09] are there. So this is all the basic things.
[31:11] So we are controlling our discount and getting the better
[31:13] margins. Simple.
[31:14] Right. Yeah, very insightful.
[31:17] Thanks for sharing that. Right.
[31:18] And what are the biggest financial risk or challenges
[31:23] that Cantable faces in the next three years and how the finance
[31:27] team is preparing for those challenges?
[31:30] Right. So if you see the biggest
[31:34] challenge for not only for the company for us or anyone is
[31:38] debt, right? How to protect your debt.
[31:42] So we are you know giving we are debt free company not for here
[31:46] for last 4-5 years sake. We do not take our legs.
[31:49] Yes, as the earlier question from your side was also been
[31:53] there. Yes, we can expand.
[31:55] Why only 20%, 2018, 20 or 22% of the growth is there.
[31:59] If I open more stores instead of 8090 or 100 stores, I can open
[32:04] 200 stores as well, right, Because we are having parts,
[32:07] right. So first of all, I, we are
[32:10] opening only the number of stores which is from internal
[32:14] accrual only in last 4-5 years, if you see the data more than
[32:18] 200 crore of the amount of CapEx and we have invested in the
[32:22] business 252-3300 crore including inventory have been
[32:26] that is all from the internal accrual, right.
[32:28] We are keeping our company debt free because it's very important
[32:31] because that give you not only give you the interest and but it
[32:34] gives you the attention as well from promoter side that is there
[32:36] is there a store is not performing yet then what is
[32:39] happening? I see you started taking the
[32:42] decisions in terms of store performance fastly.
[32:45] If a store is not been able to perform every week or every
[32:48] month, you are say analyzing your Excel sheet.
[32:51] Excel is the biggest tension in your life.
[32:53] Honestly speaking, this is my personal experience.
[32:55] When you are opening the store, Excel give you the attention.
[32:58] When you are analyzing the store, Excel give you the
[33:00] attention. The moment you have debt, you
[33:02] started taking fast decision in terms of closure, it's not
[33:05] performing. Let's close it.
[33:06] This so, so the biggest part is that we are dead free, but at
[33:11] least we know key how much my internal accrual in there and
[33:13] how much expansion long term sustainable we are, we will be
[33:16] able to do so. This is how we are.
[33:20] The biggest financial challenge is not there for us.
[33:22] We are protecting ourselves as keeping the company debt free as
[33:26] far as other challenges are concerned because in detail, if
[33:29] you see there are mainly 3 biggest two, biggest one is your
[33:32] dentals, 1 is your salaries and some of that expenses
[33:35] electricity of this it's not even, you know, but rocket
[33:38] science kind of game. You need to protect the this one
[33:40] even in the pandemic year, we have some good relationship with
[33:44] the vendors as well as some protective clauses.
[33:46] Are there protective clauses are there in terms of agreements
[33:49] which we'd protect so that free if you are not keeping, you are
[33:52] protecting over things even in the pandemic, you see if you
[33:55] open 30 store. So we don't see much financial
[33:58] risk rather in a even in the you know, worst scenario what will
[34:02] happen above, most probably we'll not be able to expand in
[34:07] couple of quarters for as per our desire number, that's it,
[34:10] not more than that. So that's it.
[34:12] We don't see much financial risk in terms of business because we
[34:15] are protecting them and moderate growth of 2022% will keep on
[34:19] coming. Absolutely.
[34:21] That's very interesting how debt plays a key role in the
[34:24] financial discipline of a company, right?
[34:27] Absolutely. Talking about financial
[34:28] discipline and even compliance, right?
[34:31] How do you think about those things while supporting
[34:34] candidates, aggressive growth and expansion plans?
[34:39] You're talking about the CFO role in that or?
[34:42] Yeah, you obviously your role and how do you think about
[34:46] compliance as well as another piece, right?
[34:48] Absolutely. So as I told you, we are listed
[34:52] entity and when you are listed you are bound to do the
[34:56] compliances. And these are the basics right?
[34:59] Because when you do wonder what I always explain to my team as
[35:02] well, you spend ₹1.00. When my accountant come with a
[35:06] voucher, he spend ₹1.00. He prepare one voucher, one guy
[35:10] is preparing 1 voucher, but that voucher is being analyzed at
[35:13] least by 5 people. My internal auditor, my stat
[35:17] auditor, my internal audit itself team, right.
[35:20] So what I'm trying to say when you are listed, not only listed
[35:24] even in the basic thing today in today's world after specifically
[35:27] after when the GST game, very watchful agencies are very
[35:31] watchful. You know government agencies are
[35:33] very watchful. So the compliance is a basic
[35:35] thing and how can you protect it?
[35:37] You need to inbuilt in the system itself, right?
[35:40] Inbuilt in the system itself. So I tried always to bear.
[35:44] I'm a believer. Yes, obviously 100% take
[35:49] practically is not possible. Below 80 or 85% is crime, but
[35:55] always trying to make this 80 to 85% in a bracket of 90 to 95
[35:59] percent, 95 to 100% bracket with very difficult to to achieve.
[36:05] So in terms of not only compliance any of the process in
[36:07] the company today we are completely process driven
[36:10] company, completely process driven company.
[36:12] Not even even if you say in my factory system initial for
[36:20] production department initial, they get read it is Sir, what is
[36:23] this? But once you do the process in a
[36:26] longer time, I'm not talking about 600 stores of thousand
[36:29] crore of revenue. We are looking for 2000 plus
[36:31] revenue when the stores numbers would be 1000.
[36:33] So who will work mainly I can't work, human being can't work,
[36:36] only systems are going to work. Honestly speaking more
[36:38] data-driven theories would be there.
[36:40] Retail is all about detail from since day one I'm retailing is
[36:44] all about detailing. So going forward also the
[36:47] everything is systemized not only compliance and other things
[36:51] going so, so that's the basic things.
[36:53] Everything is being system driven.
[36:54] I tried to put, we tried to put everything in the system itself,
[36:59] whatever is required only manual intervention is required for
[37:03] first phase, but second phase and onward it has to become in
[37:06] the system. So that is a very simple thing.
[37:09] So this is how we are being doing.
[37:12] Right. Very interesting and also give
[37:15] us an insight into the job of a CFO, especially at a public
[37:19] company, right. What are the key
[37:20] responsibilities there and what does your day-to-day look like?
[37:24] Goal of a CFO is more about, you know, I always would my thinking
[37:29] what I do when I analyze what I do because honestly speaking as
[37:35] far as expertise, balance sheet expert is there, accounting
[37:40] expert is there, marketing expert is there.
[37:46] So all the expert are there. So what I am doing because I'm
[37:49] also dependent on the expert. So what I found myself because
[37:53] we are listed as I just told you listed.
[37:55] So there is a complete structure when it is listed.
[37:59] The responsibility of a CFO is coming from the where #1 my
[38:03] investor is there. My moral responsibility to them
[38:06] is to be given the absolute, absolute transparent position
[38:10] because unless, until I give them the confidence, how good,
[38:13] whether it's a bad, whether it's a good today a company is
[38:16] performing, it's not bad because we are listed.
[38:18] It's not about annual, it's about quarter, right?
[38:20] Quarter on quarter I have to perform, yes.
[38:22] So to be very honest, so not only listed company CFO or any
[38:28] of the CFO, they are in middle of everything who is holding the
[38:31] things how there are shareholders are there, there
[38:34] are investors are there. Then you have a board is there,
[38:37] then this we are listed. Then you have auditors is there.
[38:40] So these are the outside agencies without being there.
[38:43] Then come to my IT, our team. Then we have all the back end
[38:46] department, IT department is there, other department is
[38:49] there. So very concisely file define
[38:52] holding all the department together from this one and
[38:56] releasing the information to the board to the investor and keep
[39:00] them hold of the company giving and keep the things transparent.
[39:03] Honestly, staying a single mantra, keep the thing as
[39:07] transparent as possible. And so the CFO job is very
[39:11] simple. Abdul Pushan, what is the CF OS
[39:13] role? I'm telling the simplest role is
[39:15] of CFO, right? Because all experts are there.
[39:18] He's gonna report to all the other guys.
[39:20] He's just in between. The expert was, but it's clear
[39:24] it's a very simple rule, but to be very transparent with all the
[39:27] agencies, whether it's an investor, whether it's your
[39:29] auditor, whether it's your people working under you,
[39:32] departments working under you. So this is like a backbone.
[39:36] Absolutely, completely agree. And these are all very important
[39:40] agencies and that your job is very crucial in, you know,
[39:43] maintaining all of them and managing all of them, right?
[39:47] So how? How do you use financial data
[39:49] and MIS to guide strategic decision making accountable?
[39:54] Honestly, when I started retail because my 1st 20 years at the
[39:59] past 21 years, it's data. Retailing is all about
[40:03] detailing. Simple.
[40:06] Retail is all about detail. The more and more you get detail
[40:10] and how that detail would come. This is all about your financial
[40:13] data. How we will improve, it's all
[40:15] about basic KPIs, right, Whether my KPI is about ASP or ticket
[40:19] size or repeat customer, any of the KPIs.
[40:22] So it's very important for us as well to how to use the data
[40:27] number one base the most. What is the backbone for the
[40:30] retail. It is not about your final
[40:32] balance sheet, what the larger public is doing.
[40:34] That is just a number which has been collecting from all the
[40:37] data and has been given right the working behind it, store
[40:41] level available anything you data where it's a store level
[40:44] PNL, your inventory, what is the basic batchman Retail is all
[40:48] about inventory, inventory, inventory, right?
[40:50] So how you are managing your inventory, how you are giving
[40:53] your inventory. So very finely using your data
[40:57] in terms of detailed data, in terms of retail data is
[41:01] important. So how we are using it, there is
[41:04] a monthly MIS system, there is a other system.
[41:07] Now going forward also AI is going to be very important.
[41:10] AI is going to be very important in terms of giving you the, you
[41:13] know automatic inputs, automatic input.
[41:16] So we are using our data very smartly.
[41:19] All the basic API has been inbuilt system.
[41:21] They are the systems is only giving the numbers.
[41:24] We are analyzing and taking actions on this simple.
[41:28] Absolutely. That's quite interesting.
[41:30] And when we talk about data and you know, internal metrics that
[41:33] you track, right, what do you think are the most crucial
[41:36] metrics that you obsess over at Cantville?
[41:40] So for me or for the company as a whole, what is important as I
[41:46] just do protective PNL part or the balance sheet part that is
[41:50] sheet simple to PNL part. So metrics, what we had very
[41:54] important two things #1 how you're managing your inventory
[41:58] in detail is mostly the thing about the inventory because
[42:01] customer is very chosy. You know one season you have,
[42:04] you know whatever you are telling you cannot sell 100%,
[42:06] right, You have to, you cannot sell 100%.
[42:09] So if you are getting a per your parameter 8085% of the
[42:12] clearance, then how you are managing your balance 15 to 20%
[42:15] is very important. That is a continuous task.
[42:18] So this is the biggest API. What as a retailer we need to
[42:21] follow there are very importantly and very helpful.
[42:25] There are enough channels, are there, Ecommerce is the biggest
[42:28] channel to clear your aging inventory.
[42:30] Then other channels are also there, what we have been
[42:33] adopting as well. So very important to how to use
[42:35] your KPIs in terms of inventory. There is a regular team, there
[42:39] is a retail bucketizing team who is doing things.
[42:41] Then there is a front end KPIs. Front end KPIs is to be followed
[42:45] in terms of ATB, in terms of your ticket size, your bucket
[42:50] size, your per square foot, very important data, how much you are
[42:53] per square foot sales compared to store to store, region to
[42:56] region, region to reason wise how you are 20 states, we are in
[43:00] one region is obviously if you go to the Maharashtra region,
[43:02] costs are obviously very high right as compared to North
[43:05] region or you know Central India reader, right.
[43:09] So how you are managing your KPI in terms of front end.
[43:12] So that is what important I think profitability ratios are
[43:15] important month on month basis profitability to be analyzed and
[43:19] apart from this inventory is to be analyzed.
[43:20] So these two three are the important KPI we are regularly
[43:23] follow which are the backbone because this 823 areas are
[43:27] covered approximately 80 to 90% of your business, right.
[43:30] So you need not to monitor every month and rest of the rest of
[43:33] the 1020% is more about annual compliance kind of things which
[43:36] you need to follow. So if you are following your
[43:38] front end, KPI is better, If you are following your inventory
[43:42] cycle, better managing that because inventory is a very
[43:45] important thing. Why I'm saying once your
[43:46] inventory is in control, it will reflect in your cash flows as
[43:49] well. So your cash flow is going to be
[43:51] maintained because best of the ROI is to become from that,
[43:53] right? So many things.
[43:55] So you need to follow your basic API in terms of operations part,
[43:58] you need to back end part inventory, right.
[44:02] So they have to think about the inventory.
[44:05] So these are the 2/3 data points which we have been following
[44:08] right? It's.
[44:09] Quite interesting. Thanks for sharing that.
[44:11] And my last question before we try to close this out, how do
[44:15] you look at the future of apparel in India and do you also
[44:19] have global ambitions of tapping into other markets as well?
[44:24] Now the time has come further honestly speaking for the retail
[44:28] specifically because if you see for last 10 to 12 years
[44:34] government also was supporting more about CapEx because always
[44:38] there is a better loan CapEx versus consumption in last
[44:42] 10-11. If you see it's more about infra
[44:45] tremendous job done infra, no doubt about it, right.
[44:49] So the money have broadly had gone in last 10 years in CapEx,
[44:54] infra project, national highways, you see connectivity,
[44:58] it's amazing, no doubt about it. Very well then the government
[45:01] has definitely realized, probably it's not realized it
[45:04] was due, I'll say the consumption and the spending
[45:07] toward consumption was due for a longer time.
[45:10] Now they realize and they see it started from last year itself.
[45:14] This is the last year 2 times RBI cut the rates .25 in terms
[45:20] of report rate and this immediately unexpectedly they
[45:24] reduced .5 as well. Apart from this in the budget in
[45:28] last waiting, waiting, waiting the consumption 1,00,000 crore
[45:31] of the tax bonanza has been given right.
[45:34] So government in the last budget which has been started defecting
[45:38] from April onward. So people the moment the people
[45:41] are getting more disposable income in hand, more about
[45:45] disposable income in hand. Obviously even in my I always
[45:49] say the company, my company accountable is about say mini
[45:53] India. We have a 5000 plus employee and
[45:55] all kind of employees there. You see India's majority are
[45:58] there because my production is a labor class, right?
[46:00] The labor class is majority is being there.
[46:02] My storage staff has been there. Then mid premium segment
[46:05] customer is there and premium customer is also busy.
[46:07] Just like a mini is representing a mini.
[46:09] What I personally feel I need not to go for the survey
[46:12] anywhere, just a company that's enough, right for anything.
[46:16] So when you go like this, so you will see the government is
[46:19] continuously supporting non consumption as well and huge
[46:22] amount of money has been pumped in the market.
[46:24] So definitely future for next 5-6 years clearly for the
[46:27] consumption and when the consumption is there, retail is
[46:31] there and retail is there, cantable is there.
[46:36] Absolutely the perfect note to end this on.
[46:39] Thanks for doing this Shirendra. It was a really insightful
[46:41] conversation for me as well. I learnt a lot and I'm sure our
[46:44] listeners, we learn a lot and take away a lot about the retail
[46:48] space and how you think about different decisions as the CF of
[46:51] the company right as well as how Cantebill is doing.
[46:54] So thanks for doing this. Do let us know where can our
[46:57] people learn more about the company Cantebill?
[47:01] Where can they shop from you guys since you are also have
[47:04] online presence who let us know where to get you?
[47:07] So as I told you as far as brick and mortar is concerned, we are
[47:11] presented in 20 states. We are not there as of now.
[47:14] In South India, the biggest state of South I45 states, we
[47:17] are not there. Else everywhere 20 states we
[47:19] have been registered. We are north based, all the
[47:21] states are there. Jammu, Kashmir, we are very well
[47:24] present, Maharashtra, Gujarat, Rajasthan, we started expanding
[47:27] in Central India, MP has been extended.
[47:30] So physically we are 600 plus stores as of now as well as on
[47:35] e-commerce, all the leading market players, Myntra, we are
[47:38] there as you we are there. Flipkart, we are there.
[47:41] Amazon we're there. We are now in quick commerce
[47:44] also Zepto, we are being registered what sale is coming
[47:47] as well as we are having our own website thatiscantableshop.com,
[47:51] right. We are completely present from
[47:53] your audience, from the larger audience.
[47:55] We are completely present in the brick and mortar that where it's
[47:58] a large network, 600 sources and large enough network S is still
[48:02] vacant for us. We are going to expand along the
[48:04] line to TS there as well. All the leading e-commerce
[48:07] players we are being there. We are absolutely there in
[48:10] social media and everywhere. All the influential we are being
[48:13] associated. We are doing continuous
[48:15] marketing with here. So guys, we are there for
[48:18] completely for your family need in terms of comments.
[48:22] Absolutely. I'll make sure to put the
[48:23] website link in the show notes below.
[48:25] Our listeners can check it out as well.
[48:28] Thanks so much again Shirendra for doing this and I wish you
[48:31] continued success accountability.
[48:33] Thank you. Thanks, President.
[48:34] Thanks a lot for having me on the show.
[48:36] It's really nice talking to you. Thank you.
[48:39] Bye, guys. Thank you.
[48:40] Thanks.

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