# VC10X - How & When Should Startups Expand Into Europe? - Jack Leeney, Co-founder & MD, 7GC

An episode of [VC10X - Investing, Venture Capital, Asset Management, Family Office, Wealth Management](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1632806986), 8 Jul 2025, 51 min.

Audio: https://anchor.fm/s/a453ddd4/podcast/play/105207269/https%3A%2F%2Fd3ctxlq1ktw2nl.cloudfront.net%2Fstaging%2F2025-6-8%2F403534449-44100-2-4c86da7c83adf.mp3

Jack Leeney is a Co-Founder and Managing Partner at 7GC, a venture capital firm with a unique cross-border approach that bridges the innovation ecosystems of the US and Europe. Before founding 7GC, Jack was at the forefront of some of the most iconic tech IPOs of our time during his tenure at Morgan Stanley, including Tesla, LinkedIn, and Facebook. ⭐ Sponsored by Podcast10x - Podcasting agency for VCs - https://podcast10x.com 7GC website - https://7gc.co Jack Leeney on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/jack-leeney 🎙️ Hosted by Prashant Choubey Follow Prashant on X - https://x.com/ChoubeySahab Follow Prashant on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/choubeysahab In this episode, we talk about - - 7GC's Unique Investment Philosophy - How and when should US Startups think about expanding into Europe - Evaluating Growth-Stage Companies and Valuations - The Transition from Startup to Scale-up CEO - Leveraging AI in Portfolio Companies and Venture Capital & lots more Timestamps: (00:00) Introduction (02:46) Jack's background and career journey before co-founding 7GC (03:02) Inspiration behind founding 7GC and their unique investment philosophy (07:13) Discussion on when and how US startups should expand into European markets (15:25) Regulatory challenges and considerations for expanding into Europe, using Hims as an example (18:12) Strategies for targeting specific European markets (19:19) Key factors 7GC looks for when investing in growth-stage companies (25:15) Discussion on valuation multiples and investment approach (32:05) Advice for founders seeking growth-stage funding (38:06) Challenges of transitioning from startup CEO to scale-up CEO (43:30) Use of AI in 7GC's portfolio and within the venture capital industry (49:04) Rapid-fire round with quick questions about 7GC's investment strategy For sponsorship or guest appearance requests, write to prashantchoubey3@gmail.com Subscribe to VC10X on Youtube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts.

## Transcript

[0:00] There's a perception sometimes that this would be a really
[0:03] heavy lift and maybe, you know, we already maybe we have 75
[0:07] employees or something like that.
[0:08] Does this mean we have to go higher 15 more to sit in in
[0:11] Berlin and you know, what's the OpEx and how are we going to
[0:14] manage that? Definitely does not need to be
[0:17] the case. We've had examples where, you
[0:19] know, extremely light touch managed remotely, big margin
[0:22] revenue just sort of shows up and and now you're relevant and
[0:25] present in, in that geography like anything is just something
[0:28] to be balanced on the road map. When is the right time to sort
[0:32] of dip your toe in at what scale and how does that balance
[0:35] against the other priorities? But it's without a doubt not
[0:39] something that you can't be thinking of before your sort of
[0:43] multi billion valuation or have, you know, thousands of
[0:45] employees. I mean, it's it's very, very
[0:48] navigable even at the earlier stage.
[0:53] Hey everyone, this is Prashanth and I'll be host of the VC10X
[0:55] podcast. And today we have Jack leaning
[0:57] with us. Jack is a Co founder and
[1:00] Managing Partner at 7 GCA venture capital firm with a
[1:04] unique cross-border approach bridging the innovation
[1:07] ecosystems of the US and Europe. Before Co founding 7 GC, Jack
[1:12] was at the forefront of some of the most iconic tech IPOs of our
[1:16] time during his tenure at Morgan Stanley, including Tesla,
[1:20] LinkedIn and Facebook. In this episode, we talk about 7
[1:23] GCS unique investment philosophy.
[1:26] How and when should US startups think about expanding it to
[1:30] Europe? Evaluating growth stage
[1:32] companies and valuations that transition from startup to scale
[1:36] up, CEO, leveraging AI in portfolio companies and venture
[1:41] capital, and lots more. So without wasting any time,
[1:43] let's dive straight in. This episode is.
[1:45] Sponsored by my own podcasting agency called Podcast NX, where
[1:50] I help venture capitalists, asset managers, allocators and
[1:52] family offices and starting their own podcast and building a
[1:56] strong brand. Podcast NX is designed in a way
[1:59] to work well with the busy schedule of investors where we
[2:02] handle every aspect of podcast production so you can focus on
[2:06] investing. If you're looking to build a
[2:08] strong investor brand, starting a podcast should be right up
[2:12] your priority list. It's the only form of marketing
[2:15] where you can showcase your strong network.
[2:17] In other words, access to limited partners and founders
[2:21] and grow that network further. And contrary to what most people
[2:25] hear, it's still very early to start a podcast.
[2:28] There are at least 10X more newsletters and thousand X more
[2:31] blogs than there are podcast in this world.
[2:34] You can learn more about our podcasting services at Podcast
[2:38] ten-x.com. I'll make sure to add the link
[2:40] in the description below. Enjoy this episode.
[2:43] Hey Jack, so good to have you on the VC10X podcast.
[2:46] How are you doing? Yeah, good.
[2:47] How are you? Very well, very well.
[2:50] Thank you. So good to have you here.
[2:51] And to start things off again, we start with what inspired you
[2:55] to Co found Seven GC and how does your investment philosophy
[2:59] differ from other growth stage venture firms?
[3:03] Sure, sure, absolutely. So, you know, I, I spent pretty
[3:07] much my whole career working in Silicon Valley, initially as an
[3:10] investment banker at, at Morgan Stanley.
[3:12] And that was up until about 2011.
[3:18] So before, during and, and after what was the, the, the financial
[3:22] crisis, but when, when things cooled down and markets opened
[3:26] up again, was, was really exciting time.
[3:28] So we worked with, with Tesla on their IPO and Facebook and, and
[3:32] LinkedIn and essentially all of these now household names, but,
[3:36] but were some of the biggest venture backed companies at the
[3:39] time. So I was always quite interested
[3:41] in, you know, moving over to the investor side and working there.
[3:44] And I had worked for a fund in Palo Alto kind of for a brief
[3:49] amount of time, but then I had an opportunity to set up the
[3:53] corporate venture group for Televonica.
[3:55] So, you know, one of the biggest market cap companies in Europe,
[3:58] large telco cable TV sort of diversified comms business
[4:04] there, but but really primarily across, you know the operating
[4:07] businesses in most of the countries in in Europe and then
[4:11] also in Latin America with with no presence in the US.
[4:16] However, they were very interested in investing around
[4:19] at that time what were, you know, hugely disruptive forces
[4:24] to traditional telcos and infrastructure providers.
[4:27] I mean everything on social or on consumer was going to social
[4:31] local mobile as they used to call it.
[4:33] And then the whole enterprise was being reimagined with with
[4:36] cloud shortly thereafter and then all those sort of
[4:38] cybersecurity needs etcetera, etcetera.
[4:40] So it was a really exciting time to invest and I was largely, you
[4:45] know, US person in California local network, you know,
[4:48] swimming in that pond. But now representing this, this
[4:51] massive organization in, in Europe.
[4:53] And also not only being able to invest on behalf of them, but be
[4:57] able to deliver to founders and management teams.
[5:02] You know, this opportunity to, to launch and distribute in, in
[5:05] the European market with, with it, with a huge customer there.
[5:08] And that, that was a pretty light bulb moment for me.
[5:11] That was a way to really have a bit of a differentiated
[5:15] conversation with the management teams we were working with.
[5:20] It's you know, it's often the thing, it's, it's same to
[5:23] similar to what we, we do now. You know, at the stage we're
[5:25] investing in companies, they're by and large doing extremely
[5:30] well. You know, they're, they're very
[5:32] attracted a lot of venture money.
[5:33] You know, the, the, the secret's out whether it's a series, a
[5:37] scaling or, or even a later stage thing, but they're often
[5:40] not really thinking in earnest about, about international yet.
[5:44] And, and Europe is really the most logical place to think
[5:47] about first, but it's very nuanced.
[5:50] And so to be able to, to kind of come in and, and sort of walk
[5:54] through that, have the ability to do commercial partnerships
[5:57] pretty easily, you know, demystify a lot of it, help help
[6:01] people just think through, you know, how much this is going to
[6:03] cost me. Do I have to hire 20 people?
[6:05] You know, can you do it really frictionless, all of that
[6:07] nuances specific to the business, specific to the, the
[6:10] segment they're going after. And you can really help people
[6:14] if you, you know, if you have it basically a track record of
[6:19] doing it, but also the right partners to, to catch the ball
[6:21] on the other side. So that, that was a good bit of
[6:25] the inspiration for for me or what I thought was, you know, in
[6:28] an ever competitive venture capital market, something that a
[6:33] firm could really deliver as a value to ultimately stand out,
[6:39] but also actually, you know, have that translate into, into
[6:42] real equity value in the companies you're, you're working
[6:44] with. So that was a good bit of the
[6:46] early thesis among a number of other things.
[6:49] And I'll, I'll Fast forward a bit.
[6:51] But what we've done really since since launching and, and it's
[6:54] starting to investing in 2018 is, is sort of build those,
[7:00] build those investment networks in, in both areas.
[7:02] So the, the vast majority of the LP's in our, our, our funds are
[7:07] European and you know the majority of the investing
[7:10] activity we do is, is in in the US.
[7:13] Right. That's, that's quite interesting
[7:15] and you know, giving this opportunity of US founders and
[7:19] US startups sort of expand into the European market, that's
[7:22] quite interesting. And when you're doing that, at
[7:24] what stage of a startup are they in your opinion ready to expand
[7:29] into other regions and and why Euro can be a good option for
[7:33] them at that stage? And then what is the specific
[7:36] kind of help that is required in helping them set up into a
[7:40] different market and maybe the European market also for the
[7:43] founders who might be considering that, what are the
[7:45] key considerations that they should be mindful of while doing
[7:49] that? So it's, it's definitely nuanced
[7:52] to to what the company is doing and what sector of, you know,
[7:56] the real economy I would say they're, they're ultimately
[7:59] selling into. So all of our investing is is
[8:01] software. It's all, you know, marketplace
[8:03] and SAS business models, but generally asset light software
[8:06] businesses. That being said, the underlying
[8:09] sectors we look at or have invested in is, is really very,
[8:13] you know, we, we've, we've done these days, we're, we're very
[8:17] heavily involved in, in more infrastructure level AI.
[8:20] But in the past we've done health tech, real estate tech,
[8:24] you know, we've done things that are, I guess media and gaming
[8:27] and kind of entertainment related.
[8:29] And it's, it's been, it's been varied.
[8:33] And I would say first and foremost from a suitability
[8:36] point of view, you have to just think if you are matching an
[8:41] existing regulatory framework. So what, what does that really
[8:44] mean in fintech, in insurance tech, you know, in things that
[8:50] are touching the healthcare system, whether it's all the way
[8:52] down and the payers and the hospitals and the insurance
[8:54] providers or a completely, you know, more direct to consumer
[8:59] service level approach. Those nuances may be quite
[9:03] unique depending on what the regulatory environment means in
[9:07] the US versus versus Europe. And, and you know, the
[9:10] differences there could can be quite obvious, But depending on
[9:12] what you're doing, if it's peer-to-peer lending, you know,
[9:15] that just might not simply translate in the UK or in
[9:17] France, or it may need to be the go to market, might need to be
[9:21] adopted. So I think first and foremost
[9:23] is, you know, understanding the applicability and let's just say
[9:30] you're in a space that is heavily regulated and may
[9:34] require a whole different host of, of licensing or approvals or
[9:38] red tape or, you know, for for whatever reason, it actually
[9:41] does look a bit tough to come and smoothly enter the market
[9:44] that that doesn't mean don't do it.
[9:47] There's great examples of insurtech companies actually
[9:51] specifically that have essentially taken the software,
[9:56] the product offering that they've built for the US market
[9:59] and done white label licenses or exclusive licenses to, you know,
[10:04] one company in the, in the German market, in the French
[10:07] market, in the UK market, whatever it may be.
[10:10] And that connect that could be a very appealing sort of 100%
[10:15] margin source of, of revenue to to think about.
[10:17] And we've seen great examples of, of that in the past.
[10:20] You know, on the opposite end of the spectrum, you may have a
[10:24] very frictionless business model that would translate
[10:28] immediately. And maybe there's even a
[10:30] competitive dynamic with the, you know, the European venture
[10:33] market has gotten way more robust in the last 10 years
[10:36] there. You know, you could be the, the
[10:38] billion valued US based company approaching this and there could
[10:41] be sort of some Series A or B businesses in Europe that are
[10:45] getting getting pretty close and you may just want to go, you
[10:49] know, run at them on the field. And if, if that's the approach.
[10:53] So I mean, in, in the approach one, let's say the heavily
[10:56] regulated environment, you know, the best way to be helpful if,
[10:59] if you wanted to do a really light touch kind of licensing
[11:01] type deployment, I mean that that's just going to be
[11:03] predicated on can you connect management teams with the right
[11:06] sort of senior management teams at, at an incumbent or maybe a
[11:09] lower tech, high value, sort of publicly traded version of that.
[11:13] And so we've definitely done a lot of that historically where
[11:17] just directly through our LP base.
[11:18] We, we can, we can connect dots quicker.
[11:20] We can help you understand how to think through a commercial
[11:23] agreement. These, you know, culturally,
[11:25] these things are all a bit more more nuanced, but that that's
[11:28] pretty plain banana. If you were in a sector where
[11:36] you're not going to be facing that that obstacle and it is
[11:38] more ultimately go, go compete directly, you know, then I would
[11:43] just think, I mean, hams is, is probably a great example of a
[11:48] company from our, our fund one where we we did a lot of work
[11:51] with them in our hands is now 10 billion give or take of of value
[11:56] publicly traded company. We we were investing in them at
[11:58] the Series B even at that time, you know, they were growing
[12:03] explosively quickly. They were the second quickest
[12:05] company at the time to hit a Unicorn valuation behind Slack
[12:11] and they were, you know, the customer acquisition strategy
[12:15] was was pretty straightforward or these days what we would
[12:17] think is pretty straightforward as a mix of of Omni channel
[12:20] media, digital and and offline. And for someone like them speed
[12:25] to market and just being able to buy like absolute volume, large,
[12:30] large scale ad campaigns through broadcasters, media companies,
[12:34] etcetera. I mean, that just just just
[12:38] sheer size, the size in the approach that'll help you get to
[12:41] the market quicker and, and ultimately reach the consumer
[12:44] quicker and, you know, hopefully knock out some of your
[12:45] incumbents quicker. And that was a lot of work we,
[12:47] we did with them at the time. But, you know, to put a pin in
[12:50] it, I think it, it depends, you know, it's a tool kit to think
[12:54] through with a different set of partners depending on, you know,
[12:58] all over the companies we've partnered with are, are all
[13:01] software, They're all of, you know, in some way, shape or form
[13:04] disruptive or there's an incumbent, you know, there that
[13:08] is, is probably controlled what is a market or a combination of
[13:13] markets in the past. And so, you know, we're, we're
[13:16] looking at a business that's an asset light solution to whatever
[13:19] the, the problem is how they sell through, how they partner,
[13:24] how they deal with the regulatory framework.
[13:26] I mean, all those things have to be navigated and we just have,
[13:31] you know, a background in in doing that.
[13:32] And we had the partners in our fund that can again, help, you
[13:35] know, catch the ball if if that's relevant.
[13:37] And maybe it's just the last piece to your, your question,
[13:41] you know, when, when is it relevant?
[13:44] I think it, it totally depends it it there.
[13:48] There's a perception sometimes that this would be a really
[13:52] heavy lift and maybe, you know, we already maybe we have 75
[13:56] employees or something like that.
[13:57] Does this mean we have to go higher, 15 more to sit in, in
[14:00] Berlin and you know, what's the OpEx and how are we going to
[14:03] manage that? Definitely does not need to be
[14:06] the case. We've we've had examples where,
[14:09] you know, extremely light touch, managed remotely, big margin
[14:13] revenue or just sort of shows up and, and now you're relevant and
[14:16] present in, in that geography. So I think it like anything is
[14:21] just something to be balanced on the road map.
[14:25] When is the right time to sort of dip your toe in at what
[14:27] scale? And how does that balance
[14:29] against the other priorities? But it, it's without a doubt not
[14:33] something that you can't be thinking of before your sort of
[14:37] multi billion valuation or have, you know, thousands of
[14:39] employees. I mean, it's, it's, it's, it's
[14:43] very, very navigable even at the earlier stage.
[14:46] Absolutely. And talking about a hymns that
[14:48] you just mentioned, I think they're operating in that
[14:51] intersection, health, health and Wellness industry, right?
[14:54] How much of A regulatory difficulty was that to set, set
[14:58] operations in Europe, while also give me context of if the
[15:04] startup wants to go and set operations in Europe.
[15:06] Europe is not one country, it's one continent, right?
[15:08] So a group of countries, does that mean that you need to
[15:11] comply with different regulations of different
[15:13] countries, right? And how cumbersome is that and
[15:16] different strategies of go to market maybe in different
[15:19] countries also because of different consumer behaviours in
[15:23] different markets, is that also something that you see?
[15:26] Yeah. I mean, the regulatory piece is
[15:28] hugely important. And with them specifically, the
[15:34] telehealth is definitely a newer topic sort of everywhere, let
[15:39] alone across Europe. And the UK is no longer formally
[15:43] part of the EU, but even within the EU there is not a uniform
[15:46] sort of regulation today around telehealth.
[15:49] So you know, where we spent most of our efforts at the time as
[15:53] they were thinking about it was really with the UK and Germany.
[15:56] And the UK was more, I suppose the right way to describe it is
[16:02] lighter touch or, or a bit more open to telehealth platforms
[16:06] delivering, delivering solutions to to consumers.
[16:11] The insurance, the, the collaboration with the NHS and
[16:15] the insurance system in, in the UK is, is, is pretty, pretty
[16:20] strong and they're very involved in policy, etcetera.
[16:22] And you know, NHS had gone through their framework to sort
[16:27] of allow payment for this, which is, which is different in the
[16:30] US. You know, the vast majority of,
[16:31] of the US customers and prescribers to telehealth
[16:35] services are usually paying out of pocket, if not maybe an
[16:40] employee benefit plan that the corporate is, but it's, it's not
[16:43] a subsidized thing here in the US.
[16:45] It is subsidized and accepted in some countries in Europe, in
[16:49] others and in in Germany, especially at the time when we
[16:51] were looking to do a pretty meaningful full launch, the the
[16:55] regulatory environment was very vague, very vague and uncertain
[16:58] as to how and when what would be allowed or even what types of
[17:03] you know to sort of what level of specificity or specialization
[17:07] of a doctor could you consult with digitally.
[17:09] You know, if you just see your GP, you know, hands is very
[17:13] famously and you know, they're prescribed drugs, but they're a
[17:16] little bit more personal or Wellness oriented in, in nature.
[17:20] You're not, you're not going through them for a, a cancer
[17:23] screening, right. It's, it's, it's a little more
[17:26] self-directed, a little more cosmetic in nature, more is for
[17:29] personal Wellness, etcetera. But that that has to even if
[17:32] that is your business approach that has to solve with what in
[17:35] the regulators allow you to do. So essentially we, we had an
[17:38] easier path with, with the UK versus Germany and some of the
[17:42] rest of continental Europe as it was more being defined and that
[17:45] was more as the company was, was in its earlier stages of of
[17:49] scaling up. I mean, a lot, a lot of that has
[17:51] evolved now and they've got a pretty big footprint in Europe
[17:53] and they didn't even acquire companies there too, so.
[17:56] Right. Absolutely.
[17:56] Quite interesting. And even when you're launching
[17:59] in Europe, are you targeting some key markets or key
[18:03] countries first before looking at others like you mentioned,
[18:06] Germany, UK, are those the first ones that you target to launch
[18:10] in before expanding into other countries?
[18:13] I think in general, you'd, you'd hopefully want to match market
[18:16] size, GDP, average income, you know, what are the kind of key
[18:21] customer demos that should translate into the best
[18:25] audience. If it's if it's a consumer
[18:28] specific company, it's all going to have some map back to the
[18:32] cost of acquisition. And so if there is, if you have
[18:36] to spend on on marketing a certain Geo, essentially you're
[18:39] going to look to where the best, the best yield is.
[18:41] So I would think in general, you know, map back to the largest
[18:45] GDP in the best sort of consumer segments for consumer offerings.
[18:49] And, and to flip it on its head, I think with, with enterprise
[18:52] opportunities, it can be totally wide open and ultimately who
[18:55] your channel partner is for, for a great enterprise opportunity.
[18:58] Hopefully they have great coverage across the EU or, or
[19:01] even you know, more more broadly, more broadly
[19:05] internationally. So again, always kind of a
[19:08] nuanced thing, but I think sort of comes down to a cost benefit
[19:12] analysis per per country and where can you reach the the most
[19:17] customers, but also the highest yielding customers.
[19:19] Absolutely. Makes sense.
[19:22] Great. So you're investing at growth
[19:23] stage mostly. And when you're making these
[19:26] investments, what are the key things that you're looking for
[19:29] in these companies? It can be in terms of like
[19:30] growth rate or quality of the team or any other things that
[19:35] you look for while investing in real state companies.
[19:39] Sure. Our, our base.
[19:40] So we'll, I think everyone has their own definition for, for
[19:44] growth. It's all a little amorphous
[19:46] depending on who you ask for our, our minimum criteria.
[19:51] And what we're really looking to see is, is, does the, has the
[19:54] business gotten to kind of this $10 million run rate at least
[19:58] yet. So we've been able to find that
[20:00] at Series A, which is, which is incredible when you can and sort
[20:04] of partner with teams at the earlier end.
[20:06] And then also we've done much, much later stage things.
[20:09] There for us, you know, broadly speaking, the businesses are,
[20:13] are between 10 and 100 million for, for it to land in sort of a
[20:16] first cut of our, our funnel. All, all the things we've done
[20:20] are all software, all asset light.
[20:22] You know, that's kind of the lens we we looked here.
[20:24] We want to back scalable software solutions, things that
[20:29] are, you know, emerging at a trend that has the ability to
[20:33] capture a huge amount of market share.
[20:35] And we've been pretty flexible around the, you know, the
[20:38] underlying markets are underlying parts of the real
[20:40] economy it sells into. But just from a more kind of
[20:43] financial analysis, that's roughly the scale we're looking
[20:47] for big gross margins. We we really are trying to solve
[20:52] for at entry the, the, the part of the risk return, you know,
[20:57] curve for for us to jump in and make sense.
[20:59] So what do I mean by that? If if you have 10 million in
[21:02] revenue or if you've got, you know, five in the bag and
[21:05] there's contracted line of sight for within a year to hit 10.
[21:09] What that really means to me is the tech risk has now gotten
[21:13] extremely minimal. You know, the products and go to
[21:15] market risk has also been pretty articulated.
[21:18] And if we're seeing, you know, relatively high gross margins at
[21:23] that stage, it should be and they should, they should only go
[21:26] up. So a huge amount of the analysis
[21:30] is the, the sector, the trend, the subjects, you know what,
[21:34] what exactly they're doing. Do we believe the Tam here is,
[21:39] is sizable or is, or is it, you know, combining two other Tams
[21:43] that we think could be, could be huge, you know, if they're doing
[21:45] something truly new and novel. So, you know, can it, can it get
[21:48] big enough? Can we find the company at the
[21:50] right stage where they're, you know, they're playing in the
[21:52] right sandbox? And then without a doubt, a, a
[21:55] competitive analysis, I mean, we absolutely do believe a
[21:58] tremendous amount of the, the market value from, from a
[22:00] venture investor's point of view, you know, goes, goes to
[22:03] the top two, maybe top three within, within a specific
[22:07] segment. But you know, that being said,
[22:10] we, we try to be very flexible about where innovation can come
[22:12] from, what markets are, you know, right for, for shaking up,
[22:17] how ultimately can, can that value be created?
[22:20] And, and we think if we, if we enter at that stage where, you
[22:24] know, again, a lot of the tech and product risk, because it's
[22:26] sort of taken out and it's coming down to, to team and
[22:28] expansion and, and market, then a tremendous amount of it for us
[22:33] comes down to ultimately, are we underwriting something that can
[22:38] deliver the return profile we're looking for and the liquidity
[22:41] timeline we're, we're looking for.
[22:43] So we're without a doubt very sensitive to entry multiples.
[22:47] We will be, you know, the way we run the portfolio is sort of 12
[22:53] investments per funds, you know, give or take.
[22:55] And that can mean we could do 5 in a year.
[22:58] That can also mean we could do none in a year.
[23:00] So I have a an incredibly strong belief that despite where, you
[23:06] know, the market is, if if you're underwriting the things
[23:10] that are just priced on on hubris or, or a situation where,
[23:14] you know, maybe this set like we'll, we'll pick on sort of the
[23:17] zero interest rate period. You know, if you were just
[23:20] paying those multiples for vertical SAS, which were kind of
[23:24] non differentiated widgets in a hot trend when a ton of money
[23:27] ran in the market was pricing anywhere from, you know, 30 to
[23:35] to 60 times. And you're sort of seeing that
[23:37] again in in agentic AI companies right now that that multiple
[23:44] will just never make sense that there's no world where you will
[23:48] continue to see that hold at that level.
[23:50] Even if the company at at like the fundamentals, just the core
[23:53] financials, even if you were in the thing for for four or five
[23:56] years and it it doubled every year, it it's just not going to
[23:59] look like that. On the other side.
[24:01] It'll be it'll never be supported from an M and a point
[24:03] of view. And it'll, it'll, I mean, you'd
[24:06] have to be in this a market of extreme hubris for the public
[24:10] markets to support that multiple at that time too.
[24:12] Maybe they were at the underwriting.
[24:14] Maybe everything was was price to the moon, public and private
[24:17] at the underwriting. But at the end of your whole
[24:20] period, it won't. So we, we try to be extremely
[24:24] sensitive to all those dynamics. And you know, it could be the
[24:28] best, it could be really frustrating because the team
[24:31] could be great, the opportunity could be great.
[24:33] The market could be great. The company could be absolutely
[24:35] positioned to win, but the current valuation mismatch is
[24:39] just too dramatic for it to ultimately, you know, get to a
[24:45] place where AI have confidence it will get liquid and B, when
[24:50] it gets liquid, you know, what will the valuation support be
[24:53] like there? So that's a, a, a huge amount of
[24:58] of our, our thinking for, for something to make sense.
[25:00] You you really have to there's, there's sort of so many unknowns
[25:03] and so many variables you can't control as a minority investor,
[25:07] you can control how you buy and, and, and what things look like
[25:11] at the entry. So you're at least setting
[25:14] yourself up for success on the other side.
[25:17] Right, it's absolutely. And how would you define
[25:21] reasonable valuation multiples? I know it would be different for
[25:24] every startup, but what what's the range that you like to stick
[25:28] to? I mean that's, that's a tricky
[25:31] one. It, it, it depends.
[25:32] It totally depends there is and and the market swings both ways.
[25:37] We're we're just coming out of what was a, a pretty, a pretty
[25:40] healthy reset and maybe it's best to give an example.
[25:46] I think it's helpful to anchor on public market multiples
[25:52] within very similar business models.
[25:55] So you can always look to, you know, where is the highest gross
[25:59] scaled SAS trading and you'll, you'll see something between 15
[26:03] and 20X forward. But there it's, it's never
[26:07] comparable at, at the at the end of the day, why one preference
[26:12] stock is not the same as common stock and the corporate
[26:16] structure matters. It, it very much matters in in a
[26:18] liquidity event. So your, your, your apples and
[26:21] oranges from from the start. Second, a company that is multi
[26:26] billion in scale, or even if it's not, even if it's hundreds
[26:29] of millions of scale, it's just a very different animal than a
[26:32] young company that is kind of getting to that zero to 100
[26:35] million benchmark. Iterating margins are moving.
[26:38] The, the, the sort of the headcount is moving
[26:40] dramatically. Sales channels and sales cycles
[26:44] are either new channels coming online, cycles are tightening,
[26:48] evolving, either you, you don't, you don't have enough duration
[26:51] to to to match the two assets and value them evenly.
[26:54] And last but not least, the, the private one should have a growth
[26:57] rate well in excess of 100% and the public one is, you know,
[27:01] best case scenario, probably growing at 2530%.
[27:04] And that's, you know, that's incredible.
[27:06] That's, that's a fantastic, fantastically run large scale
[27:09] company. So that's a decent line in the
[27:13] sand to just sort of start from to say, all right, at scale or
[27:19] if the thing we're looking at now gets to scale and all things
[27:22] were held equal, you know, maybe this is what it could look like.
[27:24] So let's translate the fundamentals back.
[27:26] And if we said this is an exit multiple today, we can look at
[27:30] put that as an entry multiple and just say, what do you need
[27:33] to believe for sort of core fundamental business growth?
[27:36] It's that's too oversimplified though it nothing works in a
[27:39] straight line like that or can be forecast and have defined
[27:44] entry and exit periods that clearly, but it's a decent place
[27:47] to start. And and the others are you know,
[27:49] what you can garner from what is going on within private market
[27:53] activity. But the reality is unless you're
[27:57] talking about the sort of top five companies in any given
[28:02] trend and let's presume it's also a trend that is currently
[28:06] in favor active and there's enough deal volume to be able to
[28:10] look at a bit of a sample set. You know, those multiples are
[28:15] completely driven by investor and founder attention and just
[28:19] scarcity of of capital. If it's agentic AI, there are
[28:25] people currently happily paying 60 plus times forward revenue
[28:29] there. And that's where that's going
[28:34] on. And there's a lot of activity.
[28:35] There's a lot of activity to support it doesn't mean it's
[28:38] right, but it's a line in the another line in the sand.
[28:41] And there are recent paid prices, you know, in a market
[28:46] with enough activity to sort of if you're looking for that
[28:50] valuation, you can point to all the other ones that are that are
[28:52] doing it. And then it just comes comes
[28:56] down to competition among investors.
[28:58] You know what, what are people willing to believe to to
[29:01] basically have a seat on the bus?
[29:05] But if you if you take it or take the opposite side of that,
[29:10] look at a sector that is out of favor or, you know, not the most
[29:15] active or, or maybe even, you know, even worse, you know, was
[29:19] very hot and now has kind of come back down to earth.
[29:22] That's a completely completely different dynamic on on setting
[29:26] a multiple or, or what are your expectations?
[29:29] And you can put whatever kind of financial analysis you want
[29:33] around it as the starting point for a conversation.
[29:36] But you know, the reality is if the company is doing well and
[29:42] you're looking to partner with them, partner with their
[29:45] existing investors and maybe give credit for what they've
[29:50] done between the last round, you're really thinking about
[29:53] what do I need to pay that is a fair premium between the last
[29:58] round and now? And how does that translate
[30:00] into, you know, a realistic multiple?
[30:03] If there's no bid, you can theoretically do whatever you
[30:07] want. And we, we saw opportunities in
[30:11] really young companies when the market reset pretty dramatically
[30:15] and kind of 22 and 23, you know, we saw businesses that were at
[30:20] the Series A level, they were doing incredibly well.
[30:23] They basically had better founders that had been through
[30:26] situations like this before who could do more with less and they
[30:29] had built, you know, on what we would call like seed round
[30:32] capital. They built a really nice sort of
[30:34] early stage growth business. You, you could partner with
[30:38] those folks at, you know, 2-3 four times for revenue.
[30:42] Not not uncommon at all. There just wasn't much of A
[30:46] marketer, much of a bid as most investors were, were dealing
[30:50] with a lot of the hangover of their, you know, their COVID
[30:53] portfolio and their zero interest rate portfolio and how
[30:56] to kind of stabilize the businesses that, you know, we're
[31:00] now going into really, really difficult territory and we're
[31:03] overpriced and had no fundamentals.
[31:06] So at the end of the day it I think it's pretty individually
[31:12] negotiated versus there being a clear market clearing level or
[31:18] or you know that the nuance between private and public
[31:21] investing. Yeah, totally makes sense.
[31:24] That's that's a very nuanced approach.
[31:26] And so like you said, it's a very difficult fundraising
[31:30] environment as well for founders, right.
[31:33] What advice would you give for growth stage founders because
[31:37] there is sometimes that gap from maybe seed to CVS A that is hard
[31:42] to, you know, bridge for some founders that bridge rounds also
[31:47] happening just to fill that gap. But tell me what it takes to,
[31:52] you know, start getting those growth rounds and to start being
[31:55] attractive to growth stage investors.
[31:58] What sort of metrics or numbers should be aimed to achieve at
[32:02] what stage to be attractive to investors?
[32:05] Sure, no, with without a doubt it's, it's a it's a great
[32:08] question. And I think the best way, best
[32:12] way to control your own destiny is ultimately to have revenue
[32:15] speak, speak for itself. And there is obviously, you
[32:22] know, an evolution to, to go from an idea to a product to
[32:26] commercialization to, to sort of scale to these are all, you
[32:30] can't just sort of flip a light switch and say, we're, you know,
[32:33] all our focus is on, on revenue. Now it has to be validated by
[32:37] the market And and that's fine, but I I would say to gross
[32:41] investors for an earlier growth company, you know, the most
[32:46] attractive thing you can see is a really clean story that that
[32:52] one just immediately paints a picture that the product is
[32:57] being validated by the market very quickly.
[33:00] So what do I mean, whatever we've built, you know, your, any
[33:05] founder is going to have a very articulate, you know, way to
[33:07] describe what, what is the product service?
[33:09] Why is it unique? Why is the market fantastic,
[33:10] yadda, yadda. You know, that's how they got
[33:12] the seed, the seed capital and probably the Series A capital,
[33:15] you know, selling the dream and selling their capabilities.
[33:17] Ultimately for it to translate exceedingly well to a growth
[33:23] audience, it's not necessarily showing huge revenue or or
[33:30] massive logos or X or Y or ZI don't really subscribe to that
[33:34] as much. It's showing a very, very clean
[33:37] entry into commercialization. So, So what do I mean by that?
[33:41] You didn't have to spend a unbelievable amount on team go
[33:46] to market customer acquisition going into a sales cycle thing,
[33:51] which maybe is government or enterprise oriented, that is 18
[33:55] months plus. Like you didn't need to do these
[33:57] huge leaps just to prove there was a real bid on the product or
[34:01] service. And you know, it's, it's fine if
[34:05] you were really thoughtful about building the team and there is a
[34:09] meaningful outbacks to kind of bring on a players.
[34:13] But I, I want to see at the, at the highest level that the gross
[34:18] margin even in infancy supports that this thing has a lot of
[34:21] room to run and the channel you're selling into has
[34:26] continuous appetite to keep buying this.
[34:28] So that can mean different things for, for different
[34:30] segments. But if, if you can illustrate
[34:32] that really early on, what a, what an investor is going to
[34:36] look and think, you know, they start making the model for you
[34:39] and they say, OK, you know, if this is what the gross margin
[34:43] expansion profile looks like, if this is what the cohorts are
[34:45] doing, if this is what we know with like in the early days of,
[34:49] of data, what is 30 million of capital do for this story?
[34:53] And you should be connecting the dots on your own and saying, OK,
[34:57] we can get 20% more efficiency out of that gross margin or you
[35:03] know, it's selling incredibly well into SMB, pretty
[35:06] frictionless, but that kind of taps out with average customer
[35:09] size. We think the enterprise
[35:13] enterprise channel will be super valid for this and we think
[35:17] it'll actually be a pretty short sales cycle.
[35:18] Maybe it's a three to six month thing worst case scenario.
[35:21] So if we invest against that, that gets you from you know, you
[35:25] think you'll do 10 million revenue next year.
[35:27] You could you could be maybe 20, but your pipeline could be 50 if
[35:32] we you know, invest against what you're already doing.
[35:34] So the the the cleaner the story is the kind of early signs of
[35:39] really compelling data that gets people thinking on their own.
[35:44] You know, this is what it looks like with capital.
[35:46] This is what it looks like with scale.
[35:48] And that just makes stories really easy to tell to flip it
[35:52] on its head, you know, what do you not want to look like?
[35:58] Don't I mean don't have nothing to show for yourself if it's
[36:01] still truly conceptual or iterating on the product or
[36:07] you're selling a dream that there needs to be massive
[36:09] investment for this products to do you know the groundbreaking
[36:13] goal it is set in front of it. You're just not giving me
[36:17] anything. You're not giving me anything to
[36:18] build a case around. If you've raised a bunch of
[36:23] safes and seed notes and you've taken on all this money from
[36:27] probably fancy investors or people from known entities.
[36:31] But if if you spent all your time kind of curating a punchy
[36:35] cap table and the business doesn't reflect any of the use
[36:38] of those proceeds, I don't care at all that, you know that
[36:41] someone who is playing a fundraising game and they're
[36:45] optimizing an on paper valuation.
[36:47] But then none of the fundamental attractiveness of the of the
[36:50] business is there. And look, it's, it's, it's not
[36:52] to say those people don't like sometimes win and create huge
[36:55] outcomes and, and there are founders who are very, very good
[36:59] at playing that game. And then all of a sudden the
[37:01] business starts to commercialize when there's a lot of money
[37:03] being invested and it and it goes huge.
[37:05] I mean, the, the big LLM companies are the are the best
[37:09] examples of that. You know, they were multi
[37:12] billion in, in valuation and, and unbelievable amounts of paid
[37:17] in capital before any of them turned on revenue.
[37:19] Now they're they're the ones leading, you know, this, this
[37:23] next 10 year mega trends, but that's a pretty isolated
[37:27] examples. There's a there's a lot of
[37:30] opportunities out there that you know, you're just if you're
[37:36] getting to a mismatch for the amount of capital you're looking
[37:39] for just doesn't mirror what should be, you know, the stage
[37:42] of an attractive early growing commercialized business.
[37:46] I think that's where people get into trouble and that's where
[37:48] you can, you can build a mountain ahead of you that's
[37:51] sort of impossible to climb too. If you get away with the
[37:55] valuation that's silly. On 0 commercial traction.
[38:00] Well you, you better deliver by the next round you know you're
[38:04] you're going to be in an impossible situation.
[38:07] Right, absolutely. Completely agree on that.
[38:10] Now I'm talking about the startup CEO versus the scale up
[38:13] CEO, right? Those are two way different
[38:16] jobs, right? And sometimes founders are are
[38:19] able to mature and grow into the scale of CU as well.
[38:22] Sometimes that doesn't happen, right.
[38:25] So can you tell me when you are investing, it's mostly at that
[38:29] junction where the startup is going into that scale of phase,
[38:32] right. So how are you evaluating the
[38:35] CEO's ability to take up that job and also if you give them a
[38:40] chance and still didn't work out and have you had situations
[38:43] where you had to propose that, OK, maybe we on board a new CEO
[38:48] to lead the scale up effort, so your views on that?
[38:52] Sure, definitely case by case. And it's definitely a very
[38:58] qualitative, sort of subjective topic.
[39:03] It's, it's, it's really hard to, to paint that with a broad brush
[39:06] and say, you know, this is what always works and this is what
[39:08] you have to do. If, if you had to generalize, I
[39:12] would say without a doubt, repeat founders are, are just
[39:16] better equipped. You know, there there's just a
[39:19] reality in life, you know, learning as you go and the
[39:24] product of, of maybe mistakes in the past or learnings or living
[39:28] through market cycles. I mean that that's a, a huge
[39:30] reality. This is, you know, we, we live
[39:33] and work in a space where there's a ton of young leaders
[39:37] on and on the investment side too.
[39:40] But there is a reality in anyone's career where where you
[39:42] learn as you go and you're a product of both market cycles,
[39:46] business conditions, macro, all these things happen.
[39:49] These are not just lightning in a bottle companies that are
[39:52] inventing the future and not affected by the outside world.
[39:54] We're all affected by the outside world.
[39:56] It it all trickles down. The ultimate source of all of
[39:59] this is, is the LP's who back us and they're very affected by
[40:02] the, the macro in the outside world.
[40:04] So it all trickles through. And without a doubt repeat
[40:08] founders are are going to have a great muscle memory.
[40:11] That doesn't mean I mean I would I'm just thinking now in the
[40:16] back of my head we're we're probably 5050 on if we've backed
[40:19] first time founders or or repeat if I'm thinking across the
[40:22] portfolio and. I mean, we've had amazing,
[40:26] amazing outcomes with, with folks that this was their first
[40:31] time in both start up mode, scale up mode, growth mode and,
[40:35] and public market outcome. It's, there's definitely
[40:41] characteristics you'd look for and you'd hope to see people,
[40:45] people grow into, you know, we, we invested in a company called
[40:49] Jack Pocket DraftKings bought them for $750 million last year.
[40:53] It was sort of one of the only M&A trades of the year, let
[40:55] alone a really, really sizable one run by an absolute Street
[41:00] Fighter of of ACEO, just an incredible guy can run through
[41:04] walls, highly adaptable and LED to an incredible outcome.
[41:10] And and had, you know, a business experience, you know,
[41:15] pretty much everything you you could on on the way up as far as
[41:18] capital formation growing, went through a really, really
[41:21] terrible macro cycle, operates in a heavily regulated industry.
[41:26] Look ultimately got to an outcome that was very, very
[41:29] large scale M&A, but with the public company too and there was
[41:32] a cash stock deal too. So everything about that was,
[41:39] you know, just none of it was easy.
[41:41] Like every, every stage of the business, getting to the next
[41:43] level and getting to an incredible outcome required a
[41:46] ton of work. And that's someone who delivered
[41:49] in in spades. And, and look, the reality is as
[41:54] well on the other side, it doesn't always work out.
[41:57] And that is it's never easy. You know, it's never easy.
[42:03] You're, you're an investor alongside a number of other
[42:06] investors in the company. So at a minimum, you have a
[42:11] number of sort of board members and investors monitoring, you
[42:14] know, how the company's doing and how the, how the team that
[42:18] has been that's been built and, and ultimately was initially
[42:22] backed is doing. And, you know, we've seen
[42:28] flavors of this, it, it's sometimes a better pill and
[42:34] sometimes it's, we've had, you know, situations where the, the
[42:38] founders are very much asking for help and sort of saying, you
[42:43] know, we're at a stage here where I don't, you know, the,
[42:47] the things that are in front of us.
[42:49] I don't think I'm best suited to, to learn as I go with, let's
[42:52] bring in some help. Let's figure out the right way
[42:54] to partner. What should it be?
[42:56] You know, what are the right titles, yadda, yadda, yadda.
[42:58] And and that's I think normal and healthy, but all of these
[43:03] situations are like, you know, specific to the people.
[43:05] I don't think you can generalize any of them.
[43:08] Right. Absolutely.
[43:09] Yeah. Thanks for sharing that.
[43:10] And talking about AI, then you make a trend that's there,
[43:14] right. So how are you using AI within 7
[43:18] GC to do things differently? And how are maybe a portfolio
[43:22] companies are using AI to maybe make processes more efficient or
[43:27] trying new things internally? So tell me about that.
[43:31] Sure. I'll, I'll start with the more
[43:33] interesting version and I'll, I'll try to be succinct.
[43:35] I think across the portfolio, I mean, we've invested in Corey AI
[43:38] technologies and this is, you know, Anthropic is the largest
[43:41] investment we've ever made as a firm.
[43:43] I think of Anthropic open AI, you know, Mr. all like the, the
[43:48] sort of private LMS and then obviously the, the open source
[43:51] ones. I mean, I think that war has
[43:53] already been fought and I think it's almost more like an
[43:55] operating war, operating system war.
[43:57] But these are, you know, whether they're open sourced or paid
[44:00] models and there's pros and cons to both and, and sort of
[44:02] applicable users to both. The big ones are, are here to
[44:06] stay and they've really set the, the baseline for pretty much
[44:11] what every engineer and, and developer should, should be
[44:13] using. Like we, we obviously use
[44:15] ChatGPT for more surface level things and, and, and clawed.
[44:20] It's very, very multifaceted just for, for daily use.
[44:24] But the, if you, if you look back to, I mean, Menlo Ventures
[44:28] put out this great data point. It's probably a few months old
[44:31] now at their kind of annual summit.
[44:34] And it just broke down. What is the consumption of the,
[44:38] of, you know, across the board of the large language models.
[44:40] So you know, who is the user who's doing the most prompts and
[44:43] who's pulling the most out of it?
[44:44] And it was over 50% was engineers and engineering
[44:47] environments and developers. So, you know, what does that
[44:50] mean? One just as far as the tipping
[44:54] of the scale, and I think this mirrors probably most people's
[44:57] day-to-day life. It hasn't hit the real economy
[45:00] in in a major way. It hasn't really reshaped
[45:03] everyone's everyday life. OK, your GP team more than
[45:05] you're Googling like that's fine.
[45:06] And you and I are probably a bit more tech forward than the
[45:08] average person anyway. But the point being a lot of
[45:15] what's going on with an AI and the best way to leverage the
[45:17] really what are now that the winning models, which everyone
[45:20] has the benefit of open architecture around which I
[45:22] think is going to be really great there.
[45:24] There's total interoperability between the paid ones, the open
[45:27] source ones. They're all like very much at a
[45:31] similar kind of bleeding edge scale.
[45:33] And if you are someone within a software company, whether that's
[45:38] a startup or whether it's a large one, or whether it's the
[45:40] IT department of Goldman Sachs, you now have access to these
[45:44] basically super brain code assist tools to, to let you work
[45:50] at a bigger scale, at a more creative scale, let's you manage
[45:54] teams differently. It ultimately lets you build
[45:57] whatever, you know, the solution or suite of solutions or
[46:01] integration with your legacy solutions.
[46:03] You you need to do. So I think at any company,
[46:07] whether we've invested in them or not like that, that has to be
[46:10] the mantra. And that is what's happening.
[46:11] And it's it, it's kind of a bit of my critique on what we're
[46:14] calling some of that like agentic AI solutions, that
[46:17] that's to me not, that's not like an AI company.
[46:21] That's just the new baseline for developing software.
[46:24] No, no one's going to be making a non AI enabled soft new
[46:29] software company going forward like by it.
[46:33] It'd be going backwards though across the portfolio.
[46:37] There's there's super interesting stuff.
[46:38] I mean, we've Anthropic's been been a fantastic outcome for us.
[46:43] We have another business called Poolside, which is also the kind
[46:45] of code assist LLM specifically for development environments.
[46:50] We have another business called Fluid Stack, which is providing
[46:53] kind of a cloud services layer for access to GPU's and compute.
[46:57] And so they're more like core AI technologies.
[47:00] And then obviously the other businesses we've backed are more
[47:04] absent services level companies. And I think they're again, you
[47:08] know, it's just gone into the development work stream and it's
[47:11] either, you know, what's going to be the next generation of
[47:13] what they're building or how are they just cutting a ton of sort
[47:15] of waste and infrastructure out of things that were built
[47:19] entirely by by humans in our workflows.
[47:23] It's a little less interesting. Unfortunately most of the tools
[47:30] we we use that are kind of VC specific are very company
[47:34] research oriented, you know the pitch book and cap IQ.
[47:39] And so the data services like that prequel on the on the LP
[47:43] side and we've been tinkering with kind of if there's, they're
[47:48] not all open AP is, are fully open.
[47:51] So we're trying to sort of advance the ball on how we can
[47:53] turbocharge some of the, the services we use.
[47:58] But it's, it's a bit tricky with, with with venture,
[48:00] frankly. And I've heard other people give
[48:02] more eloquent answers to this. And I don't fully understand it
[48:04] because we deal with very opaque data sets and we deal with human
[48:08] interaction. And when we meet companies, it's
[48:10] because I've seen someone I've worked with is on the board and
[48:14] I asked for an introduction to the CEO.
[48:15] And like it starts with lunch, you know, it's a, a lot of what
[48:20] we do is, is very kind of offline and person to person.
[48:23] And then the data-driven stuff we do, those data sets aren't
[48:26] fully open. You know, I wish I could have
[48:27] Claude and jest everything from pitch book and I could start
[48:30] asking more dynamic questions, but that that'll all change.
[48:33] There's a couple of coal companies out there that are
[48:35] more geared to kind of private equity venture capital like
[48:38] Brogo and in New York is. They've got a pretty cool
[48:41] solution and I'm sure we'll see more of it.
[48:43] But I hate to say it, I feel like we're we're more behind the
[48:46] curve than all the companies we're looking at.
[48:49] Yeah, totally that. That's a very insightful answer
[48:53] and thanks for sharing that. And with that, I'll move to the
[48:55] rapid fire around wherein I'll ask you 6 quick questions about
[48:59] the investing you're doing at 7 GC and you have to give 6 quick
[49:03] answers. Sounds good.
[49:04] Sure. All right.
[49:06] So the first one is what are the sectors and regions you invest
[49:09] in? So US and Europe, and we're
[49:12] doing AI infrastructure and these days cybersecurity too.
[49:17] Got it. What's the typical stage of
[49:19] investment? It's it's Series A onward and as
[49:23] long as there is that sort of 10 million revenue threshold level,
[49:26] it's of interest. Got it.
[49:29] Do you lead rounds? We do 5050.
[49:33] It depends. What's the typical check size
[49:38] you put in? It wide range anywhere from 1 to
[49:41] $20 million. Got it.
[49:44] Where can founders get in touch in case there's a direct way?
[49:48] Yeah, LinkedIn is probably the easiest or or via our website or
[49:51] e-mail links and contact pages are all there.
[49:53] So sevengc.co or just find us on LinkedIn.
[49:56] Where can listeners follow you? I believe that'd be the same as
[49:59] LinkedIn. Yeah, same.
[50:00] I don't have any other kind of social stuff.
[50:03] LinkedIn is definitely the best way to to get a hold of us.
[50:06] Awesome. I'll make sure to put all these
[50:08] links in the show notes below. Thanks so much for making time
[50:10] for this, Jack. Love all the investments you're
[50:13] doing. And here's two more amazing
[50:16] investments. Thanks so much, I appreciate it,
[50:18] it's nice to chat. Likewise, Thank you.

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