# From the ground up: Lessons in locally-led solutions with Runa Khan

An episode of [The Club of Rome Podcast](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1632613762), 26 Jun 2026, 22 min.

Audio: https://mcdn.podbean.com/mf/web/t7wqwjidkzuxkspz/Club_of_Rome_Runa_Finalbf7hk.mp3

What does it take to reach the world's most marginalised communities - not just with aid, but with dignity? In this episode of the Club of Rome Podcast, host Nolita Mvunelo speaks with Runa Khan, member of the Club of Rome and founder of Friendship, an international social purpose organisation that has been working on the river islands and coastal chars of Bangladesh since 2002. In 2025, Friendship won the Earthshot Prize in the Fix Our Climate category. Runa grew up in a privileged "glass bubble" in Bangladesh, shielded from the realities of deep poverty. An encounter with communities on the nomadic islands of the Brahmaputra river sparked a lifelong commitment to justice and equity. Her father's words stayed with her: "You are only as rich as what you can do without." In this conversation, Runa and Nolita explore what it means to build truly holistic, locally-led solutions. Runa explains the importance of the right interventions at the right time - not standardised programmes designed elsewhere - and why Friendship doesn't just go the last mile, it goes the last metre. They discuss the structural barriers that keep aid from reaching the most vulnerable, the tension between donor-led agendas and community-defined needs, and why quality and beauty matter even – indeed especially - in the most resource-scarce contexts.

## Transcript

[0:00] How do we turn vulnerability into agency?
[0:03] Today's guest on the Club of Rome Podcast has spent over two decades
[0:06] exploring that question, working with some of the most vulnerable communities
[0:10] on Earth, working in the river islands and coastal chars of Bangladesh.
[0:14] I am Nolita Mvunelo, Principal of Cultural Transformations at the Club of Rome.
[0:19] A few weeks ago, I had the opportunity to talk to Runa Khan.
[0:22] Runa is the founder of Friendship, an international social purpose
[0:25] organization established in 2002, which in 2025 won the Earthshot Prize
[0:30] in the Fix Our Climate category.
[0:32] Runa's work is based on justice, innovation, and a belief in the
[0:36] need for holistic solutions for the world's most complex problems.
[0:40] And that's what we're discussing today on the Club of Rome Podcast,
[0:43] where we explore bold ideas for shaping sustainable futures.
[0:47] Not only is she the winner of many international awards, but she's also
[0:51] co-author of several pedagogy and children's books, an international
[0:54] speaker on leadership, human rights, and climate change, and
[0:58] she's a member of the Club of Rome.
[0:59] Here's our discussion.
[1:01] I hope you enjoy
[1:03] Thank you so much for joining us, Runa.
[1:06] You are the founder of Friendship, which is an international social purpose
[1:10] organization established in 2002.
[1:14] What can you tell us about Friendship for those who have
[1:16] not heard of your work before?
[1:18] Friendship started its work, uh, not because I wanted to make an organization.
[1:23] I did not even know, you know, what development work was.
[1:27] And, uh, I, I found people who needed services which were basic human thing,
[1:34] rights of services which we all in today's world take for granted, so many of us.
[1:39] And, uh, so I started working with people who were migrating from
[1:48] islands to islands on this huge river, Brahmaputra in Bangladesh, which can
[1:52] be-- we know which can enclose the city of Paris within its bank, you know.
[1:56] And there were hundreds of these islands, and people were migrating from
[1:59] one island to the other continuously.
[2:01] And I decided that this is where I would work because they were
[2:05] not getting these services.
[2:06] So it's a social purpose organization, With four promises of saving
[2:10] lives, climate adaptation, poverty alleviation, and empowerment.
[2:15] We reach five-- 7.5 million people with direct service delivery every
[2:21] year and, uh, ensure that every life that we touch is left better than what
[2:28] we found, and certainly do not move away from the five values on which we
[2:34] built this organization: integrity, dignity, justice, quality, and hope.
[2:40] You've previously mentioned that you grew up in a glass bubble in Bangladesh.
[2:45] How did that upbringing shape your thinking and lead to where you are today?
[2:50] Yeah, I, I did mention that.
[2:52] Exactly.
[2:52] The, the word glass bubble.
[2:55] We were, like many of us, you know, I was very privileged.
[2:58] And as a child, 50, 60 years ago um, we had, um, we were kind of from
[3:07] these old aristocratic families, so you're kind of sheltered so much
[3:12] that as I grew up, in many ways, I, uh, I had not really seen reality.
[3:18] And not having seen reality, uh, poverty to me was something which I,
[3:25] I just somehow we don't notice it.
[3:29] Uh, we'd go to the villages, you know.
[3:32] In my, in my, uh, grandmother's house, we had, like, 100 maidservants.
[3:36] Can you imagine?
[3:37] So it was, like, a huge place.
[3:38] And whenever we would go here and there, uh, there were always people
[3:42] around us, always very nice settings.
[3:44] So except for some beggars, you know, on the streets of Dhaka, I, I hadn't
[3:51] really ever kind of, uh, understood what it was like, uh, the reality
[3:57] on, in the, in the fields in poverty.
[4:00] And, uh, I remember my father once telling me that, "Runa, remember
[4:03] one thing, you are only as rich as what you can do without." And it
[4:09] was a lesson of my life, you know?
[4:11] And, and we were-- He, uh, was a very austere kind of a person.
[4:16] And though, of course, I love beautiful things, I can always do without.
[4:21] And I think this gave me so much courage, you know, when,
[4:25] when- Marriages failed and, uh, government took away our properties.
[4:30] You know, things like that because of the, of the land r- laws and
[4:33] rights and all which came in.
[4:35] Uh, life changed.
[4:36] And I think this thing of being able-- You're only as rich as you can do without.
[4:41] And, uh, yes, I think, uh, a lot of my thinking and a lot of way,
[4:46] of the way I act and the way I work is driven by this deep sense of
[4:51] value, deep sense of philosophy and what is right and what is wrong.
[4:55] Justice, I would say.
[4:58] So all of these lessons, they contributed to you finding yourself
[5:02] working in the front lines with communities that are vulnerable to
[5:06] climate disasters and climate change.
[5:08] The kind of interventions that your organization is working on, Friendship,
[5:12] that they, and that you, you're undertaking, they, um, they seem to
[5:17] be deliberately systemic, maybe, maybe philosophical is the word you might use.
[5:21] What do they look like, and why is taking a holistic view of
[5:26] human development so necessary?
[5:28] You see, I, I, came really in touch with deep poverty.
[5:33] It was people having so
[5:38] little, but in that l- having nothing, not two, not being able to have two
[5:44] meals a day, these people were trying to live a life which was dignified.
[5:49] They had a little thatched house in one of these islands, you know,
[5:53] these, I call them nomadic islands of the chores of Bangladesh.
[5:57] And they had this little thatched house, one little house, which is
[6:00] being, you know, literally broken down.
[6:03] The cows are there, the goats, you know.
[6:04] They had a cow.
[6:05] It was with them in the room, and one bed, and that's all they had.
[6:08] And, you know, they were cooking in the same room.
[6:11] And yet when they came out, they fixed their clothes, they
[6:16] welcome people, and they had this innate sense of wanting respect.
[6:22] And this struck me not as poverty as what I would say, uh, people who
[6:30] had no, uh, no means of having any opportunity with their lives, but
[6:39] deserving to be respected and deserving to be honored, and yet the struggle.
[6:46] And for me, this was like poverty, which was so deep, which we don't see of,
[6:55] you know, in the, in, in cities where there's poverty, but there's opportunity.
[6:59] So poverty and lack of opportunity to me was, you know, simultaneous.
[7:03] And the poor needs everything.
[7:05] You know, they need health, they need everything.
[7:07] They need everything, but at the right time, in the right
[7:10] way, in the right amount.
[7:12] And, uh Also, if we cannot give it at that time, it doesn't really meet
[7:21] or make them break out of a cycle.
[7:23] If they need healthcare, they are suffering from a pain or they are
[7:27] suffering from, from a disease or a child who is sick, that's the
[7:31] first thing they are interested in.
[7:32] They're not interested in empowerment.
[7:34] They're not interested if you give them a stack of money with
[7:36] no access to health, you know?
[7:38] So they need the right thing at the right time.
[7:40] You need to work with the geography and the climate and the environment and the
[7:44] biodiversity, and then give them tools in that environment to work with that.
[7:50] And, and this is what we did, and, and this is what we later found
[7:54] was, was a holistic system, holistic models, nature-based solutions, and,
[7:59] you know, locally led adaptations.
[8:01] Because unless you listen to the people and listen to what they say, which is
[8:05] very important, they can't always give you the solution because solutions
[8:09] sometimes were beyond their imagination.
[8:12] But, uh, but, you know, we worked together.
[8:16] In the beginning, they needed certain things, then solutions needed to
[8:19] be changed after 10 years into something which was better because
[8:22] their environments had changed.
[8:24] So solutions go on.
[8:26] The vision has to remain that in the end, they always have an opportunity of growth.
[8:32] They always have a, a kind of a dignity, because without dignity, they will
[8:38] not trust themselves, and without courage, they will never have hope.
[8:42] And we needed to embed all this in their lives and, uh,
[8:46] perhaps, uh, somehow it worked.
[8:51] You are listening to The Clever Room Podcast, the place to discover bold
[8:54] ideas from change-makers tackling the world's biggest challenges.
[8:58] The conversation is part of our third season, where we've already spoken to
[9:02] thinkers like Jayati Ghosh on wellbeing economics, and Katharina Pistor on law
[9:06] and capitalism, with much more to come.
[9:09] Our previous episodes explore big ideas, including the universal
[9:12] basic dividend, planetary peace, societal collapse, and renewal.
[9:17] You can find them on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever
[9:19] you get your podcasts.
[9:21] Now back to the discussion
[9:22] When I was learning about Friendship and that like 5 million people, um,
[9:26] per year, um, in impact is impressive.
[9:29] I mean, beyond impressive.
[9:31] Um, it makes me wonder and ask questions around, um… Well, the first thing
[9:35] is that like what you've already said, Apis, that like com- climate
[9:39] vulnerability is like at the center of like a series of interconnected
[9:43] challenges, whether it's healthcare, it's, it's poverty, your access.
[9:46] Um, and the point you're making about, um, poverty and a lack of opportunity,
[9:52] it makes me wonder about like the, the leverage point or, um, what are
[9:58] the, what are the lessons that need to be learned both at like a, a
[10:03] local level led by local solutions, but also at an international level.
[10:07] Uh, I know that last year António Guterres was speaking about the establishment of
[10:11] an international panel on inequality, 'cause I see a lot of these challenges
[10:15] that you're speaking about sitting right at inequality, that like what
[10:19] makes someone climate vulnerable is because they were already in a
[10:21] vulnerable position to be- begin with.
[10:24] So what are the lessons you have learned, uh, personally, but also
[10:28] through your work, and what are the lessons that, um, you would encourage
[10:32] the international community to learn?
[10:33] The fundamental input is really trying to create equity.
[10:37] You know, because the injustice is something, for me, it has
[10:41] been, uh, always a kind of a compass in, in my life, you know?
[10:46] And lessons of, uh, what I have learned, you know, when I started and I saw
[10:52] this woman who could not, uh, feed her child twice a day, and she was trying
[10:57] to feed her in the daylight hours.
[10:58] And I said, "Why don't you feed her later at night?" And she says, Where will I
[11:01] get the money for a lamp?" A lamp oil, Nolita, was co- would cost maybe one cent.
[11:11] Said, "Where would I get money for that?"
[11:12] So I remember feeling First feeling like shocked and sad, and then feeling kind of
[11:20] anger, and then I think it was injustice.
[11:24] So what, what, what is it that I, I strove to do?
[11:29] You know, I needed to do something about it.
[11:31] And, and I, I realized that there were like thousands of NGOs
[11:36] working all over the country.
[11:38] How is it that these millions and millions of these people on these
[11:41] river and islands and on the riverbanks who are subjected to movements, you
[11:46] know, migration continuously, were not being addressed in the way where they
[11:51] can have equitable service to those who are not having this level of,
[11:57] uh, of, uh, requirements and needs.
[12:00] So why?
[12:00] Because they were migrant.
[12:02] So healthcare system needs to be changed.
[12:04] It cannot be done in the same way as it would go to the others.
[12:07] So I learned quite early that, um, you can never have Uh, actions on the
[12:19] ground which were decided somewhere else and not with the people themselves.
[12:24] This was so clear, so clear because people in the mainland could not-- were
[12:31] not reaching those on these islands.
[12:34] Mainland, 10 kilometers away, you know, and you cross with a r- r- you know, one,
[12:39] one euro and you can cross the river.
[12:41] And, and, and they couldn't because they had never gone.
[12:43] They don't have that.
[12:44] They didn't have that money at that time.
[12:46] So, people sitting in Dhaka, in, in the government, unless they were
[12:51] from there and they-- even when they become political leaders, they
[12:55] so often forget what life is like.
[12:58] So imagine when so much money is coming in with all pre-decided how to do
[13:05] the education, how to give the health service, what are the food that they
[13:09] are going to have, and how they're going to, you know, uh, uh, plant those crops.
[13:14] And how-- what is the equity that they need?
[13:18] I mean, all they need is their VGA card, which is their vulnerable
[13:21] group card, so that they can reach.
[13:23] All they had, all they needed was a 10 euro cent to have enough saving that when,
[13:27] when a cyclone struck, they could go to a place which would not break, you know.
[13:32] Or they could call up a healthcare center and say, "My child is sick and I, I
[13:35] need to bring the child." They couldn't.
[13:38] So, you know, to decide what is equity, it-- sitting
[13:43] somewhere else is not possible.
[13:44] So I realized also that friendship would basically give services in Bangladesh.
[13:52] But I think that they, uh, that aid should come in in a way where
[13:57] people themselves can decide.
[13:59] And it's not only the governments, it's also field organizations, national
[14:03] organizations, and not one organizations.
[14:06] There should be, you know, there, there should be many
[14:09] organizations which can decide.
[14:11] And, uh, the reason why I decided that, uh- I, uh, wanted to work in
[14:17] the way which I felt was right and that, uh, which was very different.
[14:22] And in 2004, I went to Luxembourg, and I opened my Friendship in Luxembourg
[14:29] as an independent organization, so I could bring people who I felt initially,
[14:35] who I felt, uh, you know, in Europe, who would come and see and feel and
[14:43] be part of a chain of commitment.
[14:46] You know, not somebody you're just giving money to and you don't even know
[14:49] who you're giving money to, you know?
[14:51] Somebody sends you a picture of a child and, oh, you're sponsoring that child.
[14:53] No, no, no, no.
[14:54] Come and see.
[14:55] And we created this voice of, uh, of, uh, people who understood what
[15:01] it was like to have to be ultra, ultra poor, not have opportunity,
[15:06] not have equity brought to them, and be totally the voice of, of silence.
[15:14] I try to bring voice to the voiceless, what we can offer to the world is
[15:19] that- You must never get caught in the way you have to do, but in
[15:24] the goal that you have at the end.
[15:27] So, the goal is equity.
[15:29] You don't need to be told that this is the way towards equity.
[15:34] You need to talk with the people and feel and see and empathize with compassion,
[15:41] empathize with compassion, okay?
[15:43] To be able to give them courage to hope.
[15:46] Yeah.
[15:47] I mean, absolutely.
[15:48] I mean, the, what you were already speaking about, about decisions
[15:52] that are being made elsewhere.
[15:53] I think I'll always hold on to, um, what you just said about never be told in
[15:59] the way that you have to do, but rather than the goal that you are aiming for.
[16:03] This is a dynamic, the told on the way that you have to do dynamic is a dynamic
[16:07] that we see a lot, um, experienced by impact organizations, social purpose
[16:12] organizations all over the world because, um, especially at, at, you
[16:16] will know this intimately, that, like, the resources come from elsewhere.
[16:19] Um, and, and when the resources come, the resources come with,
[16:23] like, ideas of how to approach.
[16:24] What's the leverage point?
[16:25] This is what you need to target, et cetera, et cetera.
[16:28] How do you navigate these dynamics?
[16:30] the dynamics Where people find themselves being told in the way that sh- they
[16:33] should go rather than the goals that they
[16:35] should be
[16:35] prioritizing?
[16:36] I think one of the things that, uh, I would really advise is this
[16:43] idea of providing what is needed.
[16:45] So if I go to the south, for example, of the country, education is not bad.
[16:50] I mean, there are government schools and which are more or less reachable.
[16:54] Uh, you know, with our budgets we can't reach everywhere, so
[16:57] it's more or less reachable.
[16:59] Uh, I would not, uh, kind of spend so much money with, with, uh, with schooling.
[17:03] I would not ask for schooling.
[17:04] I would ask for health, if a donor comes to me now saying, "Build
[17:07] schools in the south," I, I, I would say there's something more needed.
[17:13] You know, then I would say, "Okay, go to this particular, particular
[17:16] location." You know, that last meter, one of the ERD secretaries had told me
[17:21] that actually you don't go last mile.
[17:24] Friendship doesn't go the last mile, friendship goes the last meter, you know?
[17:27] And, uh, and, uh, so it's that last meter which I would go to take the school to.
[17:34] Anyone who ha- knows you, uh, has even known you for about five minutes,
[17:38] they will know that, um, values are central to, to your work and how you
[17:42] describe the work that you've done.
[17:44] Um, and I also know that the topic of hope is very central to, to, to, to
[17:51] Friendship, I was listening to your Earthshot Prize, uh, speech when you won
[17:55] the Fix Our Climate category last year.
[17:58] During your acceptance speech, you spoke about the realization leading to
[18:02] responsibility to create dignity and hope.
[18:05] Um, and I think that also speaks to how you… We did the
[18:07] introduction at the start, right?
[18:08] Where you mentioned, um, growing up and the lessons and the values.
[18:12] Through your experiences, what can you say, uh, you have learned
[18:15] about creating dignity and hope?
[18:17] Yes.
[18:17] You know,
[18:17] uh, realization leads to responsibility.
[18:21] And I say this because I am m- myself, my heart is an example of that.
[18:29] So it was at that moment when I realized that that child, uh,
[18:35] was having two meals a day, and that also only with rice and
[18:39] onions, and I could do something.
[18:42] I was so privileged in a sense.
[18:45] I could do… Even if I couldn't do anything, I could g- bring people.
[18:49] I had the capacity of bringing people to show that, "Look, you
[18:55] have to face this is the reality.
[18:57] My children, Prime Minister's children, the, you know, all the rich people that
[19:01] you know, and all the, all the, all the people that we meet all the time, they're
[19:05] all born of the same earth, you know, on the same soil of this country." For me-
[19:11] The responsibility was to show how you could reach services of quality to them.
[19:17] And why quality?
[19:19] I remember somebody asking me, you know, seeing-- I was, I was giving a talk in
[19:23] Paris and somebody, uh, we had built this very, very beautiful, uh, school
[19:29] for the Rohingya children, you know, the political migrants from Myanmar.
[19:33] And somebody said, "Why do you have to build such beautiful schools?"
[19:36] They were all bamboo, you know, it's bamboo school, just the
[19:39] architect was fant-fantastic.
[19:41] He always works with us.
[19:42] And, uh, and so he designed something which I really loved,
[19:45] and I thought we should have that.
[19:47] And he said, "Why do you have to have, uh, such a beautiful school
[19:51] for, for migrants?" And, you know, I, I said, "Young man, this is
[19:57] where human respect becomes at, becomes, you know, is at stake."
[20:04] Because if Only if I do not feel res- if I, if I fe- if I feel res-
[20:12] respectful towards somebody, I would give them things of quality.
[20:17] And that is extremely important for me.
[20:19] And I think this is extremely important, and I, I, I, I think that solidarity
[20:24] is a very important component I have learnt, and, uh, deep, deep humility.
[20:30] You know, I, I tell people that never, never mistake my gentleness for my
[20:31] weakness, because you're gonna make the last mistake you're gonna make, you know?
[20:31] It's, uh, I can
[20:40] be gentle because I can be strong.
[20:43] And it's, it's like that for humility.
[20:45] You can afford to be humble if you have strength and courage.
[20:48] And I think, uh, it's these that we have to kind of work, these
[20:53] skills that we have to work with for making a more equitable world.
[20:59] Wow.
[20:59] Thank you so much.
[21:00] That's, um, that's such a good note to, to end it on.
[21:04] I feel like there's so many quotables.
[21:06] As you saw, I was taking notes as I, as I go on because, um, I hope you
[21:11] don't hold it against me, Runa, but one day you might find me s- saying a
[21:14] speech somewhere and I might literally say that like, "When I have human
[21:18] respect for someone, I give them things
[21:20] of quality."
[21:21] That like resonates a lot with, um, with like, with my beliefs, but also I
[21:27] think that like an, an aspiration that people should, you know, hold onto that
[21:31] when we speak about like big picture, you know, systems transformation, et
[21:33] cetera, at the end of the day, it's about the quality of the things that we
[21:36] are fighting to ensure that people have.
[21:39] That was my discussion with Runa Khan, and thank you for listening
[21:42] to the Club of Rome podcast.
[21:43] If you've enjoyed this episode, please do leave a rating or a review, or
[21:48] follow us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.
[21:52] You can learn more about the Club of Rome and listen to
[21:54] more episodes at clubofrome.org

Shows are listed from Apple Podcasts' charts and directory, and Podcast Index where it is used. Every show and episode belongs to its publisher and plays from the publisher's own feed; this site hosts none of them.