# Interview 34: Patty McGee

An episode of [Anseo.net - If I were the Minister for Education](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1621391144), 24 May 2026, 31 min.

Audio: https://api.substack.com/feed/podcast/198573249/1f8221b2698ef71441a7d830c5e6432e.mp3

In this episode of If I Were the Minister for Education, I speak with US educator, consultant and author Patty McGee about transforming grammar teaching away from dry worksheets and red-pen correction towards inquiry, curiosity and delight, connected to real writing. Patty explains how traditional grammar instruction can create discomfort and inequity, and reframes grammar as a tool for communicating with clarity and connection, noting differences between spoken, book and standard grammar and how grammar evolves. She shares practical classroom experiences: brief, frequent sessions using talk in partnerships, comparing concepts (such as simple and compound sentences), explicit instruction with accessible language (like FANBOYS), hands-on manipulatives for playful practice, and reflection to consolidate learning. We also discuss Ireland’s evolving curriculum, trust in teachers, and Patty’s wish to bring literacy practices to schools, as well as her view that literacy should be defined as meaning-making and sharing voice. 00:00 Welcome and Teaser 01:22 Meet Patty McGee 02:24 Ireland Connection 03:17 Why Grammar Gets Hated 05:54 Beyond Grammar Police 08:00 Teachers and Discrete Grammar 11:46 Three Buckets of Grammar 14:09 Playful Grammar Experiences 19:23 Irish Curriculum Reflections 21:30 Workshops and School Support 24:50 Trust and Respect in Education 26:51 Minister for a Day 29:26 Where to Find Patty 30:44 Final Thanks and Sign Off This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit simonmlewis.substack.com/subscribe

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