# Indian Navy submarine hits fishing boat: Exploring anatomy of sea collisions | In Our Defence, S02, Ep 49

An episode of [In Our Defence](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1617244439), 5 Dec 2024, 56 min.

Audio: https://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/api.spreaker.com/download/episode/63166606/05_dec_24_defence_5_dec_128.mp3

Off the coast of Goa, a tragic collision between the Indian Navy submarine INS Karanj and a fishing boat left two fishermen dead, while 11 others survived. The crash caused ₹10 crore worth of damage to the submarine, and the fallout has raised some big questions. In this episode of In Our Defence, Dev Goswami and Shiv Aroor deeply dive into this incident. They break down how collisions like these happen and why they’re so hard to avoid. The submarine was at periscope depth, recharging its batteries, and visibility was poor—so what went wrong? Why did the Navy file an FIR against the fishing boat's captain? What was so surprising about the FIR’s contents that left Shiv perplexed? Who should really take the blame? They also discuss what happens after a crash—how investigations work, the immediate steps taken to ensure everyone’s safety, and what this means for avoiding future incidents. Along the way, Shiv and Dev bring in historical examples to help explain how tricky navigation can be at sea. Tune in! Produced by Anna Priyadarshini Sound mix by Sachin Dwivedi Catch our previous episodes on Indian Navy here: https://podcasts.indiatoday.in/politics-&-history/in-our-defence/deep-dive-on-indias-nuclear-submarines-and-why-ssns-are-need-of-the-hour-in-our-defence-s02-ep-22-997259-2024-05-02 https://podcasts.indiatoday.in/politics-&-history/in-our-defence/nuclear-powered-attack-submarines-cleared-how-these-sharks-will-give-indian-navy-new-teeth-1107759-2024-10-17

## Transcript

[0:00] Speaker 1: This is India today podcasts and nobody wants collisions because
[0:07] Speaker 1: collisions are career ending deals. I was surprised and fire
[0:12] Speaker 1: had been filed. But I spoke to quite a few
[0:14] Speaker 1: people and in the Navy they and they said, this
[0:16] Speaker 1: is standard operating procedure. When an accident happens involving civilians,
[0:20] Speaker 1: and these fishermen were civilians, a fire is always filed.
[0:23] Speaker 1: I read the fire and it's a scary document. As
[0:26] Speaker 1: we know from the tragedy. It was too late and
[0:29] Speaker 1: the boat rammed right into the submarines Finn broke right
[0:34] Speaker 1: into and very rapidly sank. You know, for God's sake,
[0:37] Speaker 1: you're an advanced submarine, you know, with sensors, with sona,
[0:41] Speaker 1: with radar, with you know, all kinds of sensors and
[0:45] Speaker 1: detection devices. You're a piece of military equipment and you
[0:48] Speaker 1: couldn't dodge a little fishing boat. How are youre going
[0:51] Speaker 1: to fight a war? The Navy is usually pretty merciless
[0:54] Speaker 1: with its own military is usually merciless with its own,
[0:57] Speaker 1: you know, when something like this happens, because but there
[1:00] Speaker 1: will be questions asked about why they didn't act in time?
[1:02] Speaker 1: Were there other protocols? That could have been carried out
[1:05] Speaker 1: before they did it. Was there a failure you know
[1:07] Speaker 1: as far as the lookout was concerned. Should they have
[1:09] Speaker 1: been more wary than the fishing boat, you know, which
[1:12] Speaker 1: didn't have advanced equipment on board?
[1:15] Speaker 2: Hello and welcome to Another Defense, a weekly podcast on
[1:18] Speaker 2: all things well defense, where I they've Goswami, your host,
[1:23] Speaker 2: along with senior journalist Shivarur, break down the world of
[1:26] Speaker 2: conflicts that range from the subtle to the brute. We
[1:29] Speaker 2: bring you nuances and perspectives that will inform and at
[1:33] Speaker 2: times provoke.
[1:37] Speaker 3: This is in Our Defense.
[1:44] Speaker 2: Hello and welcome to the fort ninth episode of An
[1:46] Speaker 2: Our Defense. High Shiv, How are you good?
[1:49] Speaker 1: They've treading outside the Maharashtramasha, which is finally over now,
[1:54] Speaker 1: so that's behind us and we can focus on some
[1:57] Speaker 1: really good things in the eleven days of certainty finally over, Yeah, finally, I.
[2:02] Speaker 2: Mean there's still someone some some left actually of what
[2:05] Speaker 2: will high time this episode goes on and hopefully it'll
[2:07] Speaker 2: all be over now yeah yeah, right, But this week
[2:11] Speaker 2: we'll talk about something that happened off the course of
[2:13] Speaker 2: marast actually a collision that involved an Indian Navy submarine.
[2:17] Speaker 2: But before we do that, just a shout out to
[2:20] Speaker 2: Indian Navy because we record this on Navy Day at
[2:22] Speaker 2: December four, and I think when the episode will be
[2:25] Speaker 2: out by Friday, it will be a week basically when
[2:28] Speaker 2: Navy has been celebrating it's many achievements and service to
[2:32] Speaker 2: the nation. And you know, I thought by when I
[2:36] Speaker 2: thought on Monday kisbur Cant discussing, I thought, you know,
[2:38] Speaker 2: we should do probably a sort of a sort of
[2:40] Speaker 2: an episode on a Navy and how it's sort of,
[2:42] Speaker 2: you know, really come into its own over the last
[2:45] Speaker 2: few years or maybe one decade in terms of, you know,
[2:48] Speaker 2: getting that sort of prime attention from the government. But
[2:51] Speaker 2: then I thought that, you know, we've already kind of
[2:53] Speaker 2: discussed that over several episodes, whether we in an episode
[2:56] Speaker 2: about the summary is the nuclear attack submarines or about
[2:59] Speaker 2: the aircraft caredatistic rant. So I think we'll just have
[3:02] Speaker 2: those links in the show notes. But I do feel
[3:05] Speaker 2: that and especially this is like sort of a personal
[3:09] Speaker 2: sort of a sort of a revelation for me with
[3:11] Speaker 2: the many chats that we've had over the forty nine
[3:14] Speaker 2: odd episodes of Another Defense in season two, I've kind
[3:17] Speaker 2: of realized that Navy really has sort of got that
[3:20] Speaker 2: crime focus.
[3:21] Speaker 3: Right from the government, your thought before we begin this episode.
[3:23] Speaker 1: So yeah, I think you're right. You know, it's a
[3:25] Speaker 1: little ironic that on Navy Day, which is today, the
[3:28] Speaker 1: day that we're recording this episode, we're doing a you know,
[3:33] Speaker 1: an episode. The topic we've chosen is is not a
[3:36] Speaker 1: very pleasant topics. We're going to be talking about collisions
[3:40] Speaker 1: at sea, and there was an accident recently as well.
[3:42] Speaker 1: In fact, just before we began this recording day, I
[3:45] Speaker 1: was speaking to a Navy friend of mine to you know,
[3:49] Speaker 1: get some understanding of some of the final points which
[3:52] Speaker 1: I'm going to be talking about about collisions, and he
[3:56] Speaker 1: was saying, on Navy Day, you're doing an episode on collisions?
[4:00] Speaker 1: Is that fair? Uh? And you know I was talking
[4:02] Speaker 1: to about and I said, you've seen our podcast. We
[4:04] Speaker 1: we cover all aspects of the Navy. We've done you know,
[4:08] Speaker 1: amazing in depth episodes about all all aspects of the Navy,
[4:12] Speaker 1: most of it most of it very very positive, and
[4:15] Speaker 1: not because we're doing pr for the Navy, but because
[4:17] Speaker 1: the Navy deserves a great deal of applause. And let's
[4:20] Speaker 1: let's you know, use this day. They've Navy Day to applaud,
[4:25] Speaker 1: you know, and the smallest of our armed forces, which
[4:28] Speaker 1: in many ways ought to be the biggest considering the
[4:31] Speaker 1: huge baritime responsibilities that India has. You know, a navy
[4:35] Speaker 1: that has been able to be a global force, you know,
[4:38] Speaker 1: a friend to other countries and you know, a sort
[4:42] Speaker 1: of source of stability for years and years with very
[4:45] Speaker 1: very limited resources, and has been able to do it
[4:47] Speaker 1: in an amazingly reliable and professional way. So this is
[4:51] Speaker 1: you know, they've in me wishing all navy personnel, veterans,
[4:54] Speaker 1: their families, their units, you know, people out at sea, men, women,
[4:59] Speaker 1: you know, the very best on Navy Day. And I
[5:01] Speaker 1: think they will understand that we've chosen this topic because, uh,
[5:05] Speaker 1: it's it's a national topic, It's a topic that is
[5:08] Speaker 1: of importance. It's it's it also relates to the safety
[5:13] Speaker 1: of naval personnel and naval assets, and therefore, why not
[5:17] Speaker 1: Navy Day. So I was able to convince my friend
[5:19] Speaker 1: in the Navy that today is actually a perfect day
[5:21] Speaker 1: to discuss something like this because it actually pertains to
[5:25] Speaker 1: you know, safety protocols, et cetera, which is something that
[5:27] Speaker 1: needs to be looked at uh and therefore and plus
[5:31] Speaker 1: Dave as as we you know we're discussing before this
[5:34] Speaker 1: we we have a live example of an accident of
[5:37] Speaker 1: this kind happening, you know, right off India's west coast.
[5:40] Speaker 2: Yeah, and especially because we want to use this episode
[5:43] Speaker 2: sort of to get into the mechanics, the physics then
[5:46] Speaker 2: anatomy of how our collision at see happens.
[5:48] Speaker 3: Because you know, when Shiv you me message in the group.
[5:50] Speaker 2: Gatheredy that this is a topic we should cover, I
[5:53] Speaker 2: immediately thought, oh yes, because you know you can't break
[5:55] Speaker 2: at sea.
[5:56] Speaker 3: So what happens? How does it all happen? When when
[5:58] Speaker 3: collision happens? What happened is.
[6:00] Speaker 2: After that what leads to one is something that will
[6:03] Speaker 2: cover on this on this episode. And you know collisions
[6:07] Speaker 2: that see are they just get headlines right. You've had
[6:11] Speaker 2: the recent example in the US where a cargo ship
[6:13] Speaker 2: smashed into the Baltimore Bridge, killing around seven people. It
[6:17] Speaker 2: was quite the spectacle in the visual sort of a way,
[6:20] Speaker 2: not in the positive word sort of a You of
[6:23] Speaker 2: course have the grand example of Titanic, the unthinkable ship
[6:27] Speaker 2: so to speak, that killed over I think around fifteen
[6:30] Speaker 2: hundred people and speaking of navies kind of while I
[6:33] Speaker 2: was doing some background for this for this episode, I
[6:36] Speaker 2: think in twenty seventeen, the US Navy faced two very
[6:40] Speaker 2: bad collisions where around twenty people were killed, the USS
[6:43] Speaker 2: FIT Federal and the US's John McCain, Johnnys McCain, and
[6:47] Speaker 2: that actually led to sackings and you know, removal from
[6:50] Speaker 2: posts of several top US Navy officers. So I think
[6:53] Speaker 2: that is sort of what people will kind of focus
[6:55] Speaker 2: on of what really happens when a collision happens, and
[6:59] Speaker 2: how do you sign and even assigned responsibility that. Okay,
[7:03] Speaker 2: that was what went wrong. But before we do that,
[7:06] Speaker 2: let's talk about what happened.
[7:07] Speaker 3: A few days ago.
[7:09] Speaker 2: A Calvary class submarine hit a fishing boat off the
[7:12] Speaker 2: coast of I think Mumba if I'm not wrong.
[7:15] Speaker 1: Off the coast of Gout, off the course of.
[7:16] Speaker 3: Sorry sorry, near near Marrastruck.
[7:18] Speaker 2: I think it was a periscope depth is what the
[7:21] Speaker 2: initial reports said, and the Navy has filed an fire
[7:24] Speaker 2: against the fishing boats. Captain two lives, I think, sad
[7:28] Speaker 2: sadly were lost the submarine. I think they tried to
[7:31] Speaker 2: rescue the fishermen and two could not be found and
[7:33] Speaker 2: they've been nothing presumed dead. It might seem odd to
[7:36] Speaker 2: people that why would the navy go around filing an
[7:39] Speaker 2: fire you and you know it's a submarine. How is the
[7:41] Speaker 2: fishing board had to blame even if it's a periscope death.
[7:44] Speaker 2: So before we get into the physics sanatomy, like I said,
[7:47] Speaker 2: tell us what we know about this incident and what
[7:50] Speaker 2: exactly happened over you.
[7:51] Speaker 3: So this was the.
[7:52] Speaker 1: Twenty first of November. They've it was late in the evening,
[7:56] Speaker 1: it was about it was a little after nine pm
[7:59] Speaker 1: and nine pm. Seven ente nautical miles off the coast
[8:01] Speaker 1: of Goa is pitch dark. It's completely dark, and therefore,
[8:06] Speaker 1: you know, visibility is not something you can rely on.
[8:09] Speaker 1: And iron s Currange, which is you know, a fairly
[8:13] Speaker 1: new submarine. It was commissioned just in twenty twenty one,
[8:16] Speaker 1: so that makes it practically, you know, brand new, almost
[8:19] Speaker 1: was you know at periscope depth. Periscope depth is basically
[8:24] Speaker 1: just the just the fin of the submarine with the
[8:26] Speaker 1: periscope and the you know, the other masts and the
[8:29] Speaker 1: sensors and the you know, the pipes through which they
[8:32] Speaker 1: suck in oxygen et cetera. Only those are sticking out
[8:34] Speaker 1: of the water. When you picture a submarine, usually see
[8:37] Speaker 1: the silhouette of the submarine plus that vertical fin with
[8:40] Speaker 1: the periscope, et cetera. So periscope depth is basically the
[8:43] Speaker 1: rest of the submarine is submerged and just that vertical
[8:46] Speaker 1: fin with the periscopes are up there. And when a
[8:49] Speaker 1: submarine is that periscope depth, as I understand it, in
[8:52] Speaker 1: this particular case, the submarine was basically recharging its batteries.
[8:56] Speaker 1: It's a diesel electric submarine, which means it needs to
[8:58] Speaker 1: periodically come up perscope depth in order to suck in
[9:01] Speaker 1: oxygen to recharge its batteries and get its diesel motors running.
[9:06] Speaker 1: It was completely dark. I was surprised, I should say,
[9:09] Speaker 1: first off, that an fire had been filed. But I
[9:13] Speaker 1: spoke to quite a few people and in the Navy,
[9:16] Speaker 1: and they said this is standard operating procedure. When an
[9:19] Speaker 1: accident happens involving civilians, and these fishermen were civilians, an
[9:23] Speaker 1: fire is always filed. And in this case, tragically, two
[9:26] Speaker 1: people were two fishermen lost their lives, and therefore a
[9:30] Speaker 1: fire is mandatory. It has to be filed because it's
[9:33] Speaker 1: it becomes a civil case. I read the fire and
[9:36] Speaker 1: it's a scary document because it's written in the words
[9:41] Speaker 1: of the executive officer of the submarine. The executive officer
[9:44] Speaker 1: is basically the number two man on board, the man
[9:48] Speaker 1: right under the commanding officer. And the submarine was at
[9:51] Speaker 1: periscope depth, like I said, and it was moving at
[9:54] Speaker 1: about six knots, pretty slow, you know, just just nice
[9:58] Speaker 1: and easy getting its oxygen, know, cruising very very slowly
[10:01] Speaker 1: and recharging its batteries. When the submarine, uh lookout lookout
[10:07] Speaker 1: officer whoever was on the lookout noticed this fishing boat
[10:11] Speaker 1: at a distance about two to three kilometers on It's
[10:15] Speaker 1: a port bow, so that's basically if the submarine is
[10:18] Speaker 1: like this forward and to the right, about two to
[10:22] Speaker 1: three kilometers, and the boat appeared to be stationary, and
[10:25] Speaker 1: it was very dimly lit apparently so it was. It
[10:28] Speaker 1: was barely visible, and it was dimly lit, so they
[10:33] Speaker 1: couldn't get up in an exact bearing of where exactly
[10:37] Speaker 1: the boat was or what it was trying to do,
[10:39] Speaker 1: or whether the boat had seen them, et cetera. None
[10:41] Speaker 1: of that was available as the as the the submarine
[10:46] Speaker 1: attempted to move away, decided to change courts and move away.
[10:50] Speaker 1: Before it could do that, the sonar of the submarine
[10:53] Speaker 1: detected the boat changing direction and moving towards the submarine
[10:57] Speaker 1: at at at speed. Okay, it wasn't clear why they
[11:01] Speaker 1: would do this, and the submarine mast apparently did have
[11:07] Speaker 1: some warning lights in order to warn anyone who's coming near.
[11:12] Speaker 1: They have the ability to turn a light on, you know,
[11:15] Speaker 1: if a situation like this occurs. And that didn't stop
[11:19] Speaker 1: the boat. The boat apparently kept coming and the submarine
[11:24] Speaker 1: the people the team controlling the submarine attempted to increase speed. Remember,
[11:29] Speaker 1: it's not possible to make sudden moves in the submarine
[11:31] Speaker 1: when you're at periscope depth. It's not like you can
[11:34] Speaker 1: suddenly dive. There are many hatches you need to close,
[11:37] Speaker 1: many things that need to be done before you can dive.
[11:38] Speaker 1: So it's not like you can make very very abrupt
[11:41] Speaker 1: evasive maneuvers in a submarine. And therefore the only course
[11:45] Speaker 1: of action that they could take is to try and
[11:47] Speaker 1: very quickly change direction and speed up a little bit.
[11:51] Speaker 1: But as we know from the tragedy, it was too
[11:53] Speaker 1: late and the boat rammed right into the submarine's fin
[11:59] Speaker 1: broke right in two and very rapidly sank. Men from
[12:03] Speaker 1: the submarine jumped into the sea to rescue some of
[12:06] Speaker 1: the fishermen. Some of the fishermen swam to another fishing
[12:09] Speaker 1: boat which was apparently a little distance away, and in
[12:13] Speaker 1: total about eleven people were rescued. Another navy vessel also
[12:18] Speaker 1: turned up and you know, attempted to rescue some of
[12:21] Speaker 1: the people and by the morning it was clear that
[12:23] Speaker 1: two people were missing and two bodies were also fished
[12:26] Speaker 1: out of the fished out of the sea. The submarine
[12:30] Speaker 1: had clearly clearly sustained some damage to its fin and
[12:34] Speaker 1: to its hull. There is some damage because this was
[12:37] Speaker 1: a fairly large fishing trawler, not very large, but it's
[12:40] Speaker 1: not a small little boat, just so our viewers and
[12:43] Speaker 1: listeners understand. So there was quite a bit of damage
[12:45] Speaker 1: to the tiling and the you know, in the equipment,
[12:48] Speaker 1: et cetera, and the periscope et cetera probably has been damaged.
[12:51] Speaker 1: So the submarine went back to its base in Karwar
[12:54] Speaker 1: in Karnataka, and it was assessed that there's about ten
[12:57] Speaker 1: crore rupees in damage, and ten core rupee is a fortune.
[13:01] Speaker 1: I mean, it's nothing compared to the cost of a submarine,
[13:04] Speaker 1: but tencro rupees of public money for a national security
[13:08] Speaker 1: asset is an unforgivable price to pay, you know. If
[13:11] Speaker 1: negligence has happened, well, anyway, we'll have to wait for
[13:14] Speaker 1: the Board of Inquiry to figure out what happened. But
[13:18] Speaker 1: I can tell you that the Navy is usually pretty
[13:21] Speaker 1: merciless with its own military is usually merciless with its own,
[13:26] Speaker 1: you know, when something like this happens, because the obvious
[13:29] Speaker 1: questions that will be asked, and I don't want to
[13:31] Speaker 1: second guess what the inquiry is going to do and
[13:33] Speaker 1: what kind of action will be taken against the crew
[13:36] Speaker 1: of the submarine, because it can be nobody's case that they,
[13:39] Speaker 1: you know, wanted this to happen. I'm sure they did
[13:41] Speaker 1: everything they possibly could to get out of it, but
[13:44] Speaker 1: there will be questions asked about, you know, why they
[13:46] Speaker 1: didn't act in time. Were there other protocols that could
[13:49] Speaker 1: have been carried out before they did it? Was there
[13:51] Speaker 1: a failure you know, as far as the lookout was concerned.
[13:54] Speaker 1: Should they have been more wary than the fishing boat,
[13:57] Speaker 1: you know, which didn't have advanced equipment on board. These
[14:00] Speaker 1: are the obvious questions that the public will ask, and
[14:02] Speaker 1: I'm sure they'll come up in the Board of Inquiry
[14:04] Speaker 1: as well. But net it was a it was an
[14:08] Speaker 1: absolutely awful accident. You know, if if all the fishermen
[14:12] Speaker 1: had survived, you know, we could still sort of wring
[14:15] Speaker 1: our hands and talk about this this accident in a
[14:18] Speaker 1: in a different kind of light. But two humans have died.
[14:20] Speaker 1: One was twenty four years old, one was thirty years old,
[14:23] Speaker 1: one from one from from Kerala as I understand it,
[14:27] Speaker 1: and one from Odsha. You know, young young boys in
[14:29] Speaker 1: the prime of their lives working on a fishing board.
[14:32] Speaker 1: So you know, obviously our deepest condolences to their families.
[14:35] Speaker 1: The inquiry will have to go into what happened because
[14:39] Speaker 1: the obvious, the other obvious question is going to be
[14:41] Speaker 1: you know, a layperson will probably ask, you know, for
[14:44] Speaker 1: God's sake, you're an advanced submarine, you know, with censors,
[14:48] Speaker 1: with sona, with radar, with you know, all kinds of
[14:53] Speaker 1: sensors and detection devices. You know, you're a piece of
[14:57] Speaker 1: military equipment and you couldn't dodge a little fishing boat.
[15:00] Speaker 1: You know, how you're going to fight a war. That's
[15:04] Speaker 1: that's not how I feel, but I'm saying that's that's
[15:06] Speaker 1: the public consuming that news headline will probably say that.
[15:09] Speaker 1: And if you look at the social media chatter around this,
[15:13] Speaker 1: it is this. It is like, oh my god, you
[15:15] Speaker 1: guys can't even you know, sail a sub money and safely,
[15:18] Speaker 1: you know, off the coast of go the safest place
[15:21] Speaker 1: to sail a submarine. Those are the obvious questions that
[15:24] Speaker 1: are going to be asked, but as we go through
[15:27] Speaker 1: this episode, we will obviously throw light on how you know,
[15:31] Speaker 1: collisions are much more complicated.
[15:33] Speaker 2: Yeah, and collisions in fact are much more common than
[15:37] Speaker 2: you would imagine. Oh yeah, I was quite surprised because
[15:40] Speaker 2: when I was just look at a Wikipedia list forget
[15:42] Speaker 2: doing proper, proper research.
[15:44] Speaker 3: It is endless.
[15:45] Speaker 2: And that actually went like for me, it begged the question,
[15:49] Speaker 2: b this sounds like sea travel is like much much, much.
[15:52] Speaker 1: More dangerous than any form traveling in the world.
[15:53] Speaker 2: If this is a lot of collages that happened, because
[15:56] Speaker 2: the collisions that make headlines are usually think ones like these,
[16:00] Speaker 2: which involved like let's say, submarine or where people sadly
[16:03] Speaker 2: lose their lives, So then yes, to understand why collisions happen.
[16:07] Speaker 2: I think first we need to understand how vastly different
[16:10] Speaker 2: it is to navigate oceans and seas compared to land
[16:15] Speaker 2: or even.
[16:15] Speaker 3: Air for that matter.
[16:16] Speaker 2: By the way, with the kind of airplace that we
[16:18] Speaker 2: have and the way they are almost sort of interconnected
[16:21] Speaker 2: and interlinked, with the help of you know, various satellite
[16:24] Speaker 2: systems and with the help of humans in terms of
[16:27] Speaker 2: air traffic control, et cetera, and very very strict tools
[16:30] Speaker 2: in terms of what sort of lane in the air
[16:32] Speaker 2: they'll be able to fight, fly, et cetera. It is
[16:34] Speaker 2: not quite like that is, you can't be like n
[16:37] Speaker 2: because a wave might come and push you somewhere else altogether, right,
[16:40] Speaker 2: And like I said at the beginning of this episode,
[16:42] Speaker 2: you can't break at sea. I mean technically, I mean
[16:45] Speaker 2: in the way people would imagine breaking in the real world,
[16:47] Speaker 2: Like can you see something come in front of you, Oh,
[16:48] Speaker 2: hey break?
[16:49] Speaker 3: Or like hey stating left and you go there?
[16:52] Speaker 1: So shift.
[16:53] Speaker 2: Tell us how do ships, submarines they navigate out at sea?
[16:58] Speaker 3: You know, I don't know if you've seen this movie called.
[17:01] Speaker 2: Greyhound, it's an apple apapalty. If I'm not wrong, Stabbing
[17:04] Speaker 2: at Denzil Washington. It's from from the World War Two
[17:08] Speaker 2: when there's there's a military escort of US Navy ships
[17:11] Speaker 2: escotting civilian ships across across.
[17:14] Speaker 3: The channel towards Europe.
[17:16] Speaker 2: And this, uh though it's a war movie that shows
[17:19] Speaker 2: a lot of fighting and you know, tracking submarines, and
[17:22] Speaker 2: watched his fighting amongst teachers, et cetera. I quite liked
[17:25] Speaker 2: how they showed how they kind of go about navigating
[17:28] Speaker 2: and identifying objects and trying to.
[17:30] Speaker 3: Go towards that.
[17:31] Speaker 2: Uh So, that's sort of a visual reference to our readers.
[17:33] Speaker 2: But I want what I want from you is sort
[17:35] Speaker 2: of this theoretical sort of lesson that you would give
[17:39] Speaker 2: to somebody who's going to go out on a boat
[17:42] Speaker 2: with maybe the staring at his hand, like, you know,
[17:44] Speaker 2: the kind of guide you would tell him, how would you.
[17:48] Speaker 1: Describe so so you know, the the amazing thing about
[17:51] Speaker 1: navigation is the the history of humanity is basically the
[17:54] Speaker 1: history of navigation since since the dawn of the modern
[17:59] Speaker 1: the modern ages. We understand it through civilization navigation being
[18:05] Speaker 1: able to you know, traverse the vast oceans and get
[18:08] Speaker 1: from one place to another in the spirit of discovery
[18:11] Speaker 1: or or conquest as it became later is basically the
[18:15] Speaker 1: history of humanity. So navigation is ingrained in our history
[18:19] Speaker 1: and it's a very important part of it. So so
[18:21] Speaker 1: you know, I second your emotions when you when you're
[18:25] Speaker 1: surprised about that huge Wikipedia list that still shows how
[18:28] Speaker 1: many collisions take place. But the thing is, if you
[18:31] Speaker 1: actually and we will now get into the technicals of
[18:34] Speaker 1: navigation and why collisions take place, it becomes easier to
[18:38] Speaker 1: understand that, you know, it's actually not so surprising that
[18:43] Speaker 1: that list is big. First of all, like you very
[18:45] Speaker 1: importantly and rightly said Dave, Unlike you know, unlike air travel,
[18:50] Speaker 1: where flight paths and you know, flight plans are meticulous
[18:55] Speaker 1: and detailed, and there is very very little room for deviation,
[18:59] Speaker 1: and even the smallest of deviations on the longest haul
[19:02] Speaker 1: flights need to be notified, need to be cleared, need
[19:05] Speaker 1: to be approved by ground control, you know, in at
[19:08] Speaker 1: least two places before they can happen. A passenger plane
[19:12] Speaker 1: cannot typically change even its altitude without getting clearance from
[19:16] Speaker 1: ground control. You know, all of these make air travel
[19:19] Speaker 1: extremely constricted in terms of what they can do. They're
[19:22] Speaker 1: basically like cable cars, you know, there's there's very little
[19:26] Speaker 1: steering you can actually do in an aircraft. Anything you
[19:29] Speaker 1: want to do has to be cleared. The ocean is
[19:32] Speaker 1: like an enormous, sort of gargantuan playground where there are
[19:37] Speaker 1: no traffic signals. There are no there are no you know,
[19:41] Speaker 1: signboards saying left or right. There are no stop signs,
[19:44] Speaker 1: there are no slow signs, there are no there are
[19:47] Speaker 1: no markers on the road telling you where you need
[19:49] Speaker 1: to go. U There most definitely is no ground control
[19:53] Speaker 1: telling you where you need to go. The beauty and
[19:56] Speaker 1: the terrifying aspect of ocean navigation by ships is that
[20:00] Speaker 1: you are everything to yourself. Your ship is completely self contained.
[20:04] Speaker 1: There's nobody on shore telling you where you need to go,
[20:08] Speaker 1: whether you're cleared to go in a certain direction, et cetera.
[20:10] Speaker 1: Everything is happening at sea, on your ship or through
[20:14] Speaker 1: other ships. That's it. So the incredible thing about navigation
[20:20] Speaker 1: is that collisions are entirely contained in the actions of
[20:25] Speaker 1: ships themselves. They can't be the errors of somebody else,
[20:29] Speaker 1: someone on shore. You know, if you take air to
[20:32] Speaker 1: air collisions, they can most certainly happen because of pilot error,
[20:36] Speaker 1: et cetera, but they can almost always happen because of
[20:39] Speaker 1: ground control error, people giving the wrong message, a guy
[20:43] Speaker 1: at the radar control, you know, failing to relay a message,
[20:47] Speaker 1: reading altitudes, wrong language barriers, like in the Churchy crash,
[20:52] Speaker 1: which continues to be the biggest you know, air to
[20:55] Speaker 1: air collision, which happened just outside Delhi. But at sea,
[20:59] Speaker 1: ships very much isolated and on their own. You need
[21:02] Speaker 1: to look out for themselves now very quickly. There are
[21:05] Speaker 1: two or three There are two or three things that
[21:07] Speaker 1: govern how ships can collide. And the reason why ships
[21:11] Speaker 1: can collide is because we are tempted to think of
[21:14] Speaker 1: the ocean as this huge, massive, you know, place for
[21:19] Speaker 1: ships to sail, And therefore, how can ships collide? There's
[21:22] Speaker 1: so much space. I'm sure they can see each other
[21:24] Speaker 1: from like, you know, a long distance away. So what's
[21:27] Speaker 1: the big deal. What we tend to forget, and this
[21:30] Speaker 1: is contrary to what I said in the initially, is
[21:32] Speaker 1: even though you've got all that space, there are shipping lanes.
[21:36] Speaker 1: You know. It's not like the entire sea is therefore
[21:39] Speaker 1: anyone to sail. Theoretically you can if you want to,
[21:42] Speaker 1: but ships go from one place to the other unless
[21:45] Speaker 1: you're on a cruise, in which case you're not really
[21:48] Speaker 1: in a hurry to get anywhere, and you can sail
[21:49] Speaker 1: anyway you want. Warships, merchant ships, fishing vessels are typically
[21:55] Speaker 1: constrained by a mission. They need to get from one
[21:58] Speaker 1: place to another, which means they can find to certain
[22:01] Speaker 1: shipping channels, shipping lanes, et cetera, and can't really stray.
[22:05] Speaker 1: And therefore, when you've got shipping lanes, it means that
[22:08] Speaker 1: more ships are confined to a certain certain confined space.
[22:13] Speaker 1: And when I say confined space, I don't mean this
[22:15] Speaker 1: terribly small channel, but a limited amount of ocean. But
[22:18] Speaker 1: the more you limit the ocean, the less space those
[22:21] Speaker 1: ships have. In terms of you know, free sailing, et cetera.
[22:26] Speaker 1: There are two or three conventions that govern navigation. Is
[22:29] Speaker 1: a is a simple concept. It's the ability to you know,
[22:33] Speaker 1: steer your ship from one place to another, keeping it safe,
[22:36] Speaker 1: et cetera, using using technology, using compasses, whatever you want,
[22:40] Speaker 1: as it has changed over the years. But given that
[22:43] Speaker 1: collisions have been commonplace for literally all of humanity, they've
[22:49] Speaker 1: happened for the longest time. There's a there's a you know,
[22:52] Speaker 1: a possibly there's a possibly incorrect quote that is attributed
[22:56] Speaker 1: to a Greek philosopher from four thousand years ago who
[22:58] Speaker 1: talks about how you know you know a ship collision
[23:01] Speaker 1: can spoil your day. I very much doubt a Greek
[23:03] Speaker 1: philosopher said that, but it is dated back to that time,
[23:07] Speaker 1: which shows that collisions have been happening since thousands of
[23:10] Speaker 1: years ago, you know, in our nautical traditions. But the
[23:15] Speaker 1: fact that collisions happen even now, starting from let's just
[23:19] Speaker 1: consider the period from World War Two onwards nineteen forty five,
[23:23] Speaker 1: there have been so many collisions. Immediately after the World War,
[23:26] Speaker 1: US warships have collided dramatically into each other. The twenty
[23:31] Speaker 1: seventeen collision that you were talking about was between a
[23:35] Speaker 1: US Navy cruiser and a massive merchant ship which collided
[23:41] Speaker 1: just off the coast of Japan. If I'm not mistaken,
[23:44] Speaker 1: these are ships which are advanced, have trained crews, have technology,
[23:50] Speaker 1: have satcoms, have radars, have sonars, whatever, They've got everything
[23:54] Speaker 1: they need to and they still collide, which means that
[23:58] Speaker 1: an entire cocktail of things have to have gone wrong
[24:01] Speaker 1: for ships to collide. Like you said, ships don't have
[24:04] Speaker 1: breaks like you know a car does. Ships tend to
[24:08] Speaker 1: take a long time to you know, turn, break rivers,
[24:12] Speaker 1: et cetera. There are two or three conventions that ships
[24:15] Speaker 1: are supposed to follow, basic conventions when they're out at sea.
[24:19] Speaker 1: There's one of them, which is called the rules of
[24:22] Speaker 1: the road out the ocean's rules of the road, which
[24:26] Speaker 1: are usually very simple things like, for example, none of
[24:28] Speaker 1: these are complicated. There are more technical aspects of collision
[24:32] Speaker 1: avoidance which are related to technology, which I'll get to
[24:35] Speaker 1: as well, but I'll just name three small rules so
[24:39] Speaker 1: I viewers understand that there are some basic, sort of
[24:42] Speaker 1: almost you know, sort of cardinal rules of collision avoidance.
[24:46] Speaker 1: One is, if two ships are headed towards each other
[24:50] Speaker 1: like bow on bow, the bow is the front of
[24:51] Speaker 1: the ship, bow on bow, then the standard operating procedure
[24:55] Speaker 1: is for both ships to turn to their starboard. Starboard
[24:58] Speaker 1: is the right side, so they're both supposed to turn
[25:00] Speaker 1: to the right. That's a rule that is ingrained in
[25:02] Speaker 1: all sailors that if you're heading dead on with another ship,
[25:06] Speaker 1: turn right, okay, so there will not be a doubt
[25:10] Speaker 1: in any of the If the guy in front of
[25:12] Speaker 1: you turns left and you turn right, you're going to
[25:14] Speaker 1: be colliding like this right, so both of you know
[25:16] Speaker 1: you're supposed to turn right, so you're basically turning away
[25:18] Speaker 1: from each other. So that's one safety protocol for if
[25:21] Speaker 1: you're heading towards each other. Second, if one ship is
[25:24] Speaker 1: trying to overtake another ship, the ship that is being
[25:27] Speaker 1: overtaken has to maintain its speed, maintain its costs, maintain
[25:31] Speaker 1: its direction, and cannot change any part of its configuration
[25:35] Speaker 1: until it is overtaken. So the entire onus on not
[25:37] Speaker 1: colliding is on the overtaking ship. That's another. Then then
[25:42] Speaker 1: there are very frequently, uh you know, t tea collisions
[25:45] Speaker 1: where you know, one ship will go ram into another
[25:47] Speaker 1: ship like that, like what happened with this submarine and
[25:50] Speaker 1: the fishing boat in that case. And this is also
[25:53] Speaker 1: you know, a very very clear rule that when you've
[25:55] Speaker 1: got a ship going like this, in a ship coming
[25:57] Speaker 1: like this, the ship that's the head of the tee,
[26:01] Speaker 1: the one that has the one heading it to is
[26:02] Speaker 1: supposed to stop, is supposed to slow down and let
[26:05] Speaker 1: this ship pass first and only then go. So there
[26:09] Speaker 1: are all these all all these manners of rules that
[26:12] Speaker 1: are there. There are conventions and regulations called call rigs,
[26:16] Speaker 1: uh you know, which which dictate many other aspects which
[26:18] Speaker 1: are the kind of lighting systems you need to have.
[26:21] Speaker 1: There is something called an automatic identification system, which even
[26:25] Speaker 1: fishing boats and fishing trollers are supposed to have. Anything
[26:28] Speaker 1: above three hundred tons is supposed to have something called
[26:30] Speaker 1: an automatic identification system, which is basically a high frequency
[26:35] Speaker 1: radio emitter which will sort of beep and provide a
[26:38] Speaker 1: blip on a radar map that a warship can have
[26:41] Speaker 1: so they can avoid, you know, fishing boats and fishing trawlers.
[26:44] Speaker 1: In this particular case, this boat was too small to
[26:46] Speaker 1: have one of those, so it needed to be all visual.
[26:49] Speaker 1: When you're going completely visual, things like this can still happen. Now,
[26:53] Speaker 1: there may be there may be questions that will be
[26:55] Speaker 1: asked about why did the submarine only spot the boat
[26:59] Speaker 1: until it was too late? You know, didn't the submarine
[27:02] Speaker 1: Did the submarine not have domain awareness? I mean, for
[27:05] Speaker 1: god's sake, it's a summary. You're literally supposed to know
[27:08] Speaker 1: what's happening several kilometers around you. You've got the censors
[27:11] Speaker 1: to do that. So how did you miss a fishing boat?
[27:14] Speaker 1: All those questions can be asked, but most most experts,
[27:19] Speaker 1: most maritime you know, legal experts because there are because
[27:24] Speaker 1: you know, whenever collisions take place, they usually become huge
[27:27] Speaker 1: legal cases as well, merchant vessels versus warships, et cetera.
[27:31] Speaker 1: Even this could become a legal case because that fishing
[27:33] Speaker 1: boat will be owned by someone that boat is gone.
[27:36] Speaker 1: It might become a tussle between the navy and them,
[27:38] Speaker 1: which is why this fire has been filed. But most
[27:41] Speaker 1: experts say that there are many, many ways that you
[27:44] Speaker 1: can avoid collisions, and if all of those protocols are
[27:47] Speaker 1: followed very, very strictly, then collisions usually do not happen.
[27:52] Speaker 1: The reason why collisions do happen is because crew fatigue,
[27:57] Speaker 1: someone was slacking off on the job. Look out. When
[28:00] Speaker 1: you say the lookout on a ship, it can be
[28:03] Speaker 1: human and technological, but the main human lookout is a
[28:06] Speaker 1: person who is who is fully alert, not fatigued, not tired.
[28:11] Speaker 1: They have shifts obviously on ships to keep a complete
[28:13] Speaker 1: three sixty degree view of what's around the ship to
[28:16] Speaker 1: make sure that nothing is coming close to it. Because
[28:18] Speaker 1: it doesn't. It may not even be a collision. It
[28:20] Speaker 1: can be it can be a terror thing. Also, it
[28:22] Speaker 1: can be a terrorist attack like the USS coal. What
[28:24] Speaker 1: happened to the USS coal? You have to have complete lookout.
[28:27] Speaker 1: It can be someone who was not paying attention. It
[28:30] Speaker 1: can be it can be someone who was ill and
[28:32] Speaker 1: decided to take some shortcuts. It can be you know,
[28:36] Speaker 1: what happened with the Titanic. It can be weather. It
[28:39] Speaker 1: can be it can be a malfunctioning of technology where
[28:41] Speaker 1: sensors are not working and you're completely flying blind. It
[28:45] Speaker 1: can be. It can be that you've done everything correct,
[28:47] Speaker 1: Your lookout is fine, your technology is fine, but the
[28:51] Speaker 1: other ship has not followed protocol, has not had a
[28:54] Speaker 1: lighting system, is not beeping on its automatic identification system,
[28:59] Speaker 1: their crew is a slo leap, their crew is sick,
[29:01] Speaker 1: whatever it is, and until it's too late, you have
[29:05] Speaker 1: no idea that the ship is there. And like you said,
[29:07] Speaker 1: you can't break. It's very very difficult. Ships have something
[29:09] Speaker 1: called a tactical diameters. It's a small technical term, which
[29:14] Speaker 1: is the minimum radius that's required for a ship to
[29:16] Speaker 1: take a one to eighty degree turn. Now that gives
[29:19] Speaker 1: you a bit of an idea of how long it's
[29:21] Speaker 1: going to take for you to, you know, evade. Obviously,
[29:25] Speaker 1: the bigger the ship the larger the you know, tactical radius,
[29:28] Speaker 1: tactical diameter. But even for even the irons karrange the
[29:32] Speaker 1: submarine that we're talking about, it's not a very large beasts.
[29:35] Speaker 1: It's not at all large. It's a pretty small, pretty
[29:38] Speaker 1: compact submarine. But even that couldn't move away in time
[29:42] Speaker 1: from a little fishing trawler. It just tells you how
[29:46] Speaker 1: difficult things are at sea, and nobody wants collisions because
[29:49] Speaker 1: collisions are career ending deals. You know. I hope that
[29:54] Speaker 1: there's an explanation for what happened, but I can tell
[29:56] Speaker 1: you that any collision is a deep professional and harassment,
[30:00] Speaker 1: no matter who is to blame, no matter who is
[30:02] Speaker 1: to blame. Since we're talking about irons karrange the submarine thing,
[30:06] Speaker 1: I'm not going to second guess what happens in the
[30:08] Speaker 1: board of inquiry. I'm not going to second guess whether
[30:11] Speaker 1: there's going to be a you know, you know, a
[30:13] Speaker 1: court martial or whatever. I never wish for these things
[30:15] Speaker 1: because I know how dangerous sailing is and how difficult
[30:20] Speaker 1: and complicated it is. But at the end of the day,
[30:23] Speaker 1: if a collision happens on your watch, the record shows
[30:27] Speaker 1: that the Navy's usually usually has no mercy because ultimately
[30:31] Speaker 1: the buck stops with you, The buckstops with the commanding officer.
[30:34] Speaker 1: How did this happen on your watch? How did things
[30:36] Speaker 1: reach a point where you could not turn around and
[30:40] Speaker 1: avoid this accident? You know, all these difficult questions will
[30:44] Speaker 1: come in, and it all comes down to how collisions
[30:48] Speaker 1: can be avoided.
[30:49] Speaker 2: In fact, I think that's exactly what happened in twenty
[30:52] Speaker 2: seventeen with the US Navy, because if you look at
[30:54] Speaker 2: the litany of officers who are either sacked or you know,
[30:57] Speaker 2: said somewhere else, it's a very, very long list. And
[31:00] Speaker 2: it's not even limited to the officers who were present
[31:02] Speaker 2: on those two ships. US's Digital and uses Johnys McCain.
[31:07] Speaker 2: It's also the commanding offices of the fleet sort of
[31:11] Speaker 2: a wide region and in the case of the US's
[31:13] Speaker 2: Fifth Channel. Just to show you how ruthless militaries can
[31:16] Speaker 2: be in this kind of thing. Even though the commanding
[31:20] Speaker 2: officer and certain other crew members were dismissed from service
[31:25] Speaker 2: unceremoniously dismissed from service, it was the merchant vessel Yes
[31:29] Speaker 2: that paid the US Navy twenty seven million dollars which
[31:32] Speaker 2: basically meant at the end of the investigation, the merchant
[31:35] Speaker 2: vessel was at fault, But the military doesn't see it
[31:39] Speaker 2: that way.
[31:39] Speaker 1: They still see it as why did you under your watch?
[31:43] Speaker 1: How did this even happen? How did things come to
[31:45] Speaker 1: a point where your ship could touch another ship? That's
[31:49] Speaker 1: how the Navy sees it.
[31:50] Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll talk now a bit about what happens in
[31:54] Speaker 2: the aftermath of such collisions, the immediate aftermath, and obviously
[31:57] Speaker 2: maybe a few months later when, like you said, then
[32:00] Speaker 2: destcutions happened.
[32:00] Speaker 4: But after a quick break, eat eggs, no eat fiber, sleep,
[32:09] Speaker 4: no take short naps, don't listen to others, no serve others.
[32:13] Speaker 4: Do you ever feel like you're drowning in a pool
[32:16] Speaker 4: of advice? This is Sonalia Charge, a health journalist for
[32:21] Speaker 4: the last ten years, who is equally fed up of
[32:25] Speaker 4: lines like ten ways to Stay fit. So join me
[32:28] Speaker 4: in the podcast Health Wealth, as we learn about health
[32:31] Speaker 4: from a completely new perspective where investing in yourself is
[32:35] Speaker 4: not a task but simple, satisfying and joyful. Full episodes
[32:40] Speaker 4: are available on Apple, Google, Spotify, and the India Today
[32:44] Speaker 4: podcast website. Tune in now.
[32:53] Speaker 2: Welcome back, Shave and I discussing collages that see and
[32:55] Speaker 2: how inherently difficult they are to a wide shift kind
[32:59] Speaker 2: of give us a broad of you know how, there
[33:02] Speaker 2: are protocols in place that are meant to help sailors,
[33:05] Speaker 2: whether they are merchant or from the military, to help
[33:08] Speaker 2: a white collision that see. But you know, because of
[33:10] Speaker 2: various factors that shifts is listed before the before the break,
[33:14] Speaker 2: things can do go wrong at sea, and collisions do happen,
[33:18] Speaker 2: and when it comes to militaries, more often than not,
[33:22] Speaker 2: the officers on board that particular shift are usually acted
[33:25] Speaker 2: against because, like Shift said, you know, how could this
[33:27] Speaker 2: happen under your watch? I guess that also kind of
[33:30] Speaker 2: goes back to the earlier point that you made. That
[33:32] Speaker 2: unlike with let's say an accident on road or an
[33:36] Speaker 2: accident in air or involving airplanes, there's only two things
[33:40] Speaker 2: that have gone wrong, and both those things, or either
[33:42] Speaker 2: of those those things are on those two ships that
[33:45] Speaker 2: were involving in the collision. It's not somebody some other
[33:47] Speaker 2: external factor that that was involved. Right, Let's not talk
[33:51] Speaker 2: about what happens after in the immediate after of the
[33:54] Speaker 2: aftermath sorry of the collision, and then we'll talk about
[33:57] Speaker 2: what happens much much later. Let's take the example of
[33:59] Speaker 2: the Indian Navy somebody in Currents that was involved in
[34:03] Speaker 2: a collision with the fishing boat. What sort of damage
[34:05] Speaker 2: control happens on board of ship or navy ship or
[34:08] Speaker 2: a naval sambarine. What's the first thing that the captain
[34:11] Speaker 2: or the exo executive officer that, like you said, would
[34:14] Speaker 2: do to kind of you know, first check the sort
[34:17] Speaker 2: of you know, you know, thanks Triitanic I and I
[34:21] Speaker 2: think everybody knows the concept of compartments on ships. And
[34:25] Speaker 2: you know, whenever you all these all many of these
[34:28] Speaker 2: war films involving and naval ships, there's always this one
[34:33] Speaker 2: scene where the commanding officer has to take that call
[34:36] Speaker 2: of shutting down this one hatch, leaving some men behind
[34:39] Speaker 2: inside because it's a question of saving the boat or
[34:41] Speaker 2: was just saving those men in that compartment, because once
[34:44] Speaker 2: that compartment is shut to avoid to prevent water from
[34:47] Speaker 2: you know.
[34:47] Speaker 3: Filling in more chat forever.
[34:50] Speaker 2: So take us through what's the damage control like when
[34:52] Speaker 2: a collision happens, minor major, whatever it is, what's the
[34:55] Speaker 2: immediate protocol and what what's the immediate thing that happens
[34:59] Speaker 2: on board of ship when something like this happened.
[35:01] Speaker 1: So, since we're talking about this specific submarine, irons Currange,
[35:05] Speaker 1: which is a scorpyin class submarine, uh, it's a it's
[35:09] Speaker 1: a fairly modern submarine, thankfully.
[35:12] Speaker 2: Uh.
[35:12] Speaker 1: And therefore it has something called uh structural health monitoring system,
[35:17] Speaker 1: which means that if there are any breaches, any fractures
[35:21] Speaker 1: to the hull, you know, any you know, any kind
[35:24] Speaker 1: of uh uh compromise to the structural integrity of the submarine,
[35:29] Speaker 1: the commanding officer and the crew will know about it
[35:32] Speaker 1: because it'll it'll flash on consoles, et cetera, and they
[35:35] Speaker 1: they will know immediately where the problem is and what
[35:37] Speaker 1: has happened. So this is a fairly uh you know,
[35:40] Speaker 1: a modern amenity on submarines, so that they don't need
[35:43] Speaker 1: to look for where where the problem is. These things
[35:46] Speaker 1: are there. In earlier, earlier World War two type submarines,
[35:49] Speaker 1: they'd have all kinds of pumps and pipes and things
[35:52] Speaker 1: like that. Now it's uh, you know, much more modern,
[35:54] Speaker 1: even though the technology is largely the same. Now it's
[35:57] Speaker 1: much more electronic, et cetera. So the first obviously, the
[36:01] Speaker 1: first priority number one for the crew is to make
[36:05] Speaker 1: sure that the submarine is safe, because you know, if
[36:07] Speaker 1: the submarine is not safe, then they can't they can't
[36:10] Speaker 1: even get out and see if the fishing boat is okay.
[36:13] Speaker 1: So once they confirmed that the submarine is structurally okay,
[36:17] Speaker 1: not taking water in after because a collision can very
[36:20] Speaker 1: easily open a hole or you know, and open a
[36:23] Speaker 1: gash on the side of a submarine or a top
[36:24] Speaker 1: of a submarine. And in this particular case, the submarine
[36:27] Speaker 1: was like that, and the boat just went over its front,
[36:30] Speaker 1: over its bow, broke into and then sank into pieces,
[36:33] Speaker 1: basically like that. So, in this particular case, once the
[36:38] Speaker 1: crew had ensured that the submarine was structurally okay, not
[36:44] Speaker 1: sinking uncontrollably, not taking in water, et cetera, the obviously
[36:49] Speaker 1: the engines would have been it would have been it
[36:52] Speaker 1: would have been made stationary and I don't know if
[36:54] Speaker 1: the engines would be turned off, but it would be
[36:56] Speaker 1: brought to a stop. All all systems would be there
[37:00] Speaker 1: very quickly checked. There would be a checklist to make
[37:02] Speaker 1: sure that all other systems of the submarine are okay,
[37:05] Speaker 1: and it's a handling fine. Once that happened, remember that
[37:09] Speaker 1: the crew would already know by now what has happened,
[37:12] Speaker 1: because they've been tracking this fishing boat, trying to get
[37:15] Speaker 1: out of the way, trying to speed up, and literally
[37:18] Speaker 1: through the periscope watched this damn thing coming right at
[37:21] Speaker 1: them and smashing into them. So it's not like they
[37:25] Speaker 1: are in the dark and wondering, hey, what was that sound.
[37:27] Speaker 1: It's not like that. They would know exactly what happened, right,
[37:30] Speaker 1: and plus their sonar would have been giving them the
[37:33] Speaker 1: full picture as well. Once they've confirmed that the submarine
[37:37] Speaker 1: itself is safe and stable, et cetera, you know, a
[37:40] Speaker 1: team would climb the ladder, up the fin, get out
[37:42] Speaker 1: of the submarine to get that first visual look with
[37:45] Speaker 1: human eyes you know what has happened. And apparently the
[37:48] Speaker 1: first scene they must have seen, I'm assuming is a
[37:51] Speaker 1: large oil slick because this was a fishing boat. It
[37:54] Speaker 1: was a diesel powered fishing boat, so there was a
[37:56] Speaker 1: huge amount of diesels pillage and there was damage to
[37:59] Speaker 1: the finn of the submarine as well as the front,
[38:02] Speaker 1: the front part of the submarine, there was some damage
[38:04] Speaker 1: to it. Submarines are basically covered by you know, tiles
[38:08] Speaker 1: anechoic tiles, which makes them you know, suppresses sound et cetera,
[38:12] Speaker 1: makes them more stealthy. So there was damage to the
[38:14] Speaker 1: outer layer of the submarine, not the metallic part, but
[38:16] Speaker 1: the outer layer, and some damage to the finn in
[38:19] Speaker 1: the periscope area. So immediately some of the crew commanding
[38:24] Speaker 1: off ordered some of the crew to get into the
[38:26] Speaker 1: water and rescue some of those fishermen because they could
[38:28] Speaker 1: be seen in the water. Luckily, to the calm night,
[38:30] Speaker 1: that was one saving grace. It wasn't a you know,
[38:33] Speaker 1: windy night. And I'm wondering, you know, if this had
[38:35] Speaker 1: happened on the other side of the coast with cyclone
[38:38] Speaker 1: Fengal happening, of course, there wouldn't be a fishing boat out.
[38:41] Speaker 1: But I'm just imagining theoretically, if it happened in that
[38:43] Speaker 1: kind of weather, this would have been a very very
[38:45] Speaker 1: different story. But you had sailors and probably officers jumping
[38:51] Speaker 1: into the water to rescue some of those fishermen. There
[38:54] Speaker 1: was another fishing boat nearby apparently, so some of them
[38:56] Speaker 1: got rescued. The commanding officer immediately after the collision phoned
[39:00] Speaker 1: naval headquarters in the base, basically informing them. So the
[39:03] Speaker 1: first thing you do is inform, tell the base what
[39:05] Speaker 1: has happened. Collision has taken place, so that all systems
[39:08] Speaker 1: are go in case search and rescue needs to be done.
[39:11] Speaker 1: In case the submarine is going to be in distress,
[39:13] Speaker 1: you know, a helicopter will be put on stand by,
[39:15] Speaker 1: a maritime patrol aircraft will be put on stand by.
[39:18] Speaker 1: Other rescue equipment will be put on stand by in
[39:22] Speaker 1: case something happens to the submarine. That can happen. So
[39:25] Speaker 1: it was a naval ship that arrived very shortly after that,
[39:27] Speaker 1: because seventy nautical miles off the ghost is nothing. Another
[39:31] Speaker 1: ship arrived short while later and most of the fishermen
[39:34] Speaker 1: who were rescued were put onto that ship and while
[39:36] Speaker 1: they were spoken to they were they said that there
[39:39] Speaker 1: are thirteen people and we are only eleven. So then
[39:42] Speaker 1: search continued overnight and two bodies were fished out. So
[39:46] Speaker 1: this is basically the protocol. Once the rescued people are done,
[39:50] Speaker 1: you know, a final assessment of the submarine submarine's health
[39:53] Speaker 1: was conducted and then it when it was assessed that
[39:56] Speaker 1: the submarine is capable of sailing on its own, doesn't
[39:59] Speaker 1: need to be too, doesn't need any special special assistance
[40:03] Speaker 1: from any other vessel. It immediately sailed to Karva. Karva
[40:06] Speaker 1: is just south of Goa. It's also a submarine base. Uh.
[40:09] Speaker 1: And it went there, which is where an initial structural
[40:13] Speaker 1: study was conducted and said that you've damaged quite a bit.
[40:16] Speaker 1: So ten krore rupees is what it's going to cost.
[40:17] Speaker 1: So that's that's when the officers went to Mumbai and
[40:21] Speaker 1: place their fir so very very immediately all all you know,
[40:25] Speaker 1: all actions kick into forstave the board of inquiry would
[40:28] Speaker 1: have started. This same crew will not be sailing this
[40:31] Speaker 1: submarine until the Board of inquiry is over. Uh. The
[40:34] Speaker 1: submarine obviously is out of action until it is fixed
[40:38] Speaker 1: in all respects. Uh. So that's going to put it
[40:40] Speaker 1: out of action for I don't know, a few a
[40:42] Speaker 1: few weeks or months. I'm assuming the crew itself will
[40:46] Speaker 1: need to be available for the Board of inquiry. Every
[40:48] Speaker 1: member of the crew will be interviewed as part of
[40:51] Speaker 1: the Board of inquiry, from the commanding officer down to
[40:54] Speaker 1: the EXO, to the you know navigation officer, to to
[40:58] Speaker 1: the you know chief of the board, whoever is was
[41:00] Speaker 1: on the board, all of them will be interviewed. Their
[41:03] Speaker 1: versions will be taken, there will be summary of evidence,
[41:05] Speaker 1: and then a decision will be taken on you know,
[41:08] Speaker 1: on on disciplinary action, administrative action, dismissal from service, all
[41:13] Speaker 1: those things. I I I never wish this on anyone.
[41:16] Speaker 1: But this is a difficult position for any crew to
[41:19] Speaker 1: be in because because like I like I'm repeating over
[41:23] Speaker 1: and over again, collisions are a professional a professional stain,
[41:28] Speaker 1: that is, you know, the most unthinkable for any sailor
[41:31] Speaker 1: or officer. And therefore it's difficult to sort of wriggle
[41:34] Speaker 1: yourself out from under those things. Add to the out,
[41:38] Speaker 1: add to it the fact that two fishermen are dead.
[41:40] Speaker 1: Uh and uh, you know, like I gave you with
[41:42] Speaker 1: the USS Fitzgerald example, by the end of it, we
[41:46] Speaker 1: may very very well be faced with the reality that
[41:49] Speaker 1: it was the fishing boat's fault. Uh. In fact, from
[41:52] Speaker 1: what I am hearing, it definitely was the fishing boat's
[41:55] Speaker 1: fault from what I'm hearing from my friends in the Navy.
[41:58] Speaker 1: But like I said, the Navy UH does not take
[42:01] Speaker 1: that as a mitigating factor in terms of what action
[42:04] Speaker 1: it will take it against its own personnel. So we
[42:06] Speaker 1: can expect real action to be taken here, right A.
[42:10] Speaker 3: Slight tangential question.
[42:12] Speaker 2: And some people might laugh at me for asking this,
[42:14] Speaker 2: but some things that honesty really did come up to
[42:17] Speaker 2: my head because that's something I would do if my
[42:20] Speaker 2: card was in moretant an accident.
[42:22] Speaker 3: Does the submarine to have insurance? Uh?
[42:25] Speaker 2: And also the fact that the good question, the fact
[42:27] Speaker 2: that you've registered two parts. So one, yeah, the insurance
[42:31] Speaker 2: bid because I know, of course commercial ships do have big,
[42:34] Speaker 2: big insurance because major things can go wrong out to
[42:36] Speaker 2: see that I have been there have been times when
[42:38] Speaker 2: you know, containers have really fallen into seas, so they
[42:40] Speaker 2: need to recover those costs. But these are defense assets
[42:44] Speaker 2: you're talking about. Their job involves going into the mouth
[42:46] Speaker 2: of mouth of dangers. I don't know what insurance company
[42:48] Speaker 2: the world would would you know.
[42:49] Speaker 3: Ensure them.
[42:50] Speaker 2: So that's part one. Part two is you've registered the
[42:53] Speaker 2: fire at yellow Gate police station that falls into Uma police.
[42:57] Speaker 2: That police should have seen it. It's it's a ni Vinaga.
[42:59] Speaker 2: Then Navy obviously will do its own courte of inquiry
[43:02] Speaker 2: and and will have its own proceedings. But who at
[43:06] Speaker 2: the end of the event it comes to naval vessels
[43:08] Speaker 2: versus commercial vessels. Who at the end of that it
[43:10] Speaker 2: decides the blame, because if the Navy is doing the inquiry,
[43:12] Speaker 2: isn't that conflict of interest? You might say that we'll
[43:15] Speaker 2: be very strict with their officers, but you're ultimately investigating
[43:18] Speaker 2: your own team for the lapses that they may have done.
[43:21] Speaker 2: But the actual accident in question. Who determines, okay this
[43:25] Speaker 2: was or who this boat was the one at fault,
[43:28] Speaker 2: and especially something like this when it's a small fishing boat.
[43:32] Speaker 2: It's not a major behemoth of a cargo ship that
[43:34] Speaker 2: has a company and lawyers, and you know, they can
[43:37] Speaker 2: approach firms and you can have some sort of international
[43:39] Speaker 2: litigation that happens in the Singapore courte This is something
[43:42] Speaker 2: that's happened off the coast of India, involves your navy
[43:46] Speaker 2: submarine and one small fishing boat. So who investigates in
[43:50] Speaker 2: the one question?
[43:52] Speaker 1: Very good question. There are two separate investigations that are
[43:55] Speaker 1: taking place right now. Let's be very clear. The fire
[43:58] Speaker 1: that has been launched by the Navy is because the
[44:01] Speaker 1: collision took place with the civilian vessel, which was a
[44:03] Speaker 1: fishing boat. And the fact that two people have died
[44:06] Speaker 1: and damage has been sustained by the submarine which is
[44:08] Speaker 1: a public asset. Therefore it becomes a civilian case. The
[44:12] Speaker 1: police will have registered the fire if if the law
[44:16] Speaker 1: take its course in terms of, you know, whether the
[44:19] Speaker 1: fishing the person who owns the fishing boat pursues it legally,
[44:23] Speaker 1: it could go to court, and ultimately courts have jurisdiction
[44:27] Speaker 1: on these things. But it gets a little complicated. And
[44:31] Speaker 1: the conflict of interest question that you asked is also pertinent,
[44:35] Speaker 1: except that the Navy's board of inquiry is not empowered
[44:39] Speaker 1: to assign blame on the on the on the fishing
[44:42] Speaker 1: boat here right. Let me let me correct that and
[44:46] Speaker 1: find tune that a little bit more. The Navy's board
[44:48] Speaker 1: of inquiry is empowered to provide a overall picture as
[44:54] Speaker 1: to who was at fault, but it is not empowered
[44:58] Speaker 1: to assign damages to anybody else apart from the navy
[45:03] Speaker 1: crew itself. It cannot do that. That's point number one.
[45:07] Speaker 1: Point number two. The entire onness, the entire onus of
[45:10] Speaker 1: a board of inquiry is to look at only the
[45:13] Speaker 1: naval aspects of it. The obviously, what happened with the
[45:16] Speaker 1: fishing boat, what the fishing boat did, et cetera, will
[45:19] Speaker 1: be part of the testimony that will be brought into
[45:21] Speaker 1: the board of inquiry, But ultimately the entire terms of
[45:26] Speaker 1: reference of a board of inquiry is to basically investigate
[45:29] Speaker 1: what happened, collect all summary of evidence, probe all details
[45:34] Speaker 1: of what may have happened, technical hearsay testimony, et cetera,
[45:37] Speaker 1: and then come to a conclusion as to what action
[45:40] Speaker 1: needs to be taken. Should no action be taken because
[45:43] Speaker 1: nothing could have been done, they're not at fault. Should
[45:46] Speaker 1: action be taken in an administrative manner, which is you know,
[45:50] Speaker 1: doc pay or you know, a loss of seniority, or
[45:53] Speaker 1: you can't commander ship again? Many things could be discipline reaction,
[45:57] Speaker 1: which is, you know, you lose some motions, you get
[46:01] Speaker 1: dismissed from service. There are a whole range of punishments
[46:04] Speaker 1: that can take place against officers and sailors in a
[46:07] Speaker 1: case like that. So that's the difference between a board
[46:09] Speaker 1: of inquiry and a civil suit. So if this continues
[46:13] Speaker 1: to court, which it might well do, then a court
[46:16] Speaker 1: will decide. The question you asked about insurance is a
[46:19] Speaker 1: very interesting one. Now, since military ships are literally instruments
[46:24] Speaker 1: of war, they don't have general insurance, okay, because they
[46:27] Speaker 1: literally go into arms way, you know, carrying enormous amounts
[46:32] Speaker 1: of fuel and weapons and bombs and you know, explosives, etc.
[46:37] Speaker 1: So no, no general insurance company is going to say, yes, okay, fine,
[46:42] Speaker 1: please pay this premium and will we will ensure your
[46:45] Speaker 1: submarine or your destroyer doesn't work like that. However, the
[46:48] Speaker 1: reason why it's a good question is because let's take
[46:51] Speaker 1: again example of the irons Karrange, which is a Scopyon
[46:53] Speaker 1: class submarine. It's built here in India in Mumbai at
[46:57] Speaker 1: Mazagon Docks Limited. It's a French submarine where the technology
[47:01] Speaker 1: was licensed to India in two thousand and seven as
[47:04] Speaker 1: part of a Scorpion deal and under which India set
[47:08] Speaker 1: up a huge submarine production line in Mumbai at Mazagon
[47:12] Speaker 1: Docks where six of these submarines have been built under
[47:15] Speaker 1: the terms of the license agreement and the production agreement.
[47:20] Speaker 1: I'm not sure aware of the details, but I'm sure
[47:23] Speaker 1: that there are certain parts, certain systems, certain technologies in
[47:28] Speaker 1: the submarine, maybe even certain structural parts which carry a warranty,
[47:32] Speaker 1: which carry an original equipment manufacturers warranty or with a
[47:37] Speaker 1: supplier or with individual companies in India who have supplied
[47:40] Speaker 1: those pieces. There may be individual warranties of different kinds,
[47:44] Speaker 1: but if you're asking about, you know, whether there's a
[47:47] Speaker 1: you know, someone can go to Oriental Bank of Commerce
[47:49] Speaker 1: and say I've banged my alto into an auto. You know,
[47:53] Speaker 1: please give you my sixteen thousand bucks.
[47:54] Speaker 2: Doesn't work like that, right wo A final again, sort
[47:59] Speaker 2: of ten questions on this on this on this topic.
[48:02] Speaker 2: One is you know, while researching for this, I was
[48:05] Speaker 2: looking at the Google map of the Mumbai Port and
[48:08] Speaker 2: I think we've once discussed this previously as well, that
[48:10] Speaker 2: that's a very congested area to operate. And you have
[48:13] Speaker 2: the main port itself where you have cargo ships coming
[48:15] Speaker 2: in and unloading their their their stock, and you have
[48:19] Speaker 2: the naval peers and port quite close by where you
[48:22] Speaker 2: have all the naval ships uh parked and station. It's
[48:25] Speaker 2: quite a tough area obviously to kind of get out
[48:27] Speaker 2: and get in. So does the Navy, like most commercial ports,
[48:32] Speaker 2: have the specialized group of peoples as pilots, pilots who
[48:37] Speaker 2: know that area very very well, so they are able
[48:39] Speaker 2: to guide and you know, help all the commercial ships
[48:43] Speaker 2: coming in because their captains and their officers and their
[48:46] Speaker 2: crew might not be so aware of the layout of
[48:48] Speaker 2: that particular portrait, right, Does the Navy also have a
[48:51] Speaker 2: subset of like, you know, the specialized group of people
[48:53] Speaker 2: who can jump on board and naval ship when it's
[48:55] Speaker 2: kind of entering the Mumbay harbor? Or is it just
[48:58] Speaker 2: because the same sort of crew usually operates out of
[49:00] Speaker 2: that place, they don't need that extra skill.
[49:02] Speaker 1: No, No, absolutely, very much the same. The Navy also
[49:06] Speaker 1: has harbor pilots, you know, for its larger ships, even
[49:10] Speaker 1: for its smaller ships. And the reason for that is
[49:13] Speaker 1: not just to be sure about you know, compliance with
[49:17] Speaker 1: the shipping lanes and the approach areas, et cetera, but
[49:20] Speaker 1: also because of the reason that we began this episode with,
[49:23] Speaker 1: because most collisions, most you know, most accidents, etc. Happen
[49:30] Speaker 1: in harbor approach areas, which is where the maximum congestion
[49:33] Speaker 1: of shipping traffic actually is. And you've seen Mumbai. If
[49:37] Speaker 1: you look at a picture of Mumbai on Google Maps,
[49:40] Speaker 1: not only do you see all those ships, but you
[49:42] Speaker 1: can see that vast dotted landscape of fishing boats. There
[49:45] Speaker 1: are so many fishing boats there as well. You know,
[49:48] Speaker 1: post twenty six eleven, more technologies have been introduced. The
[49:52] Speaker 1: automatic identification system has been made mandatory for all boats
[49:55] Speaker 1: over three hundred tons, et cetera. But it's still a huge,
[49:59] Speaker 1: huge challenge for Navy ships. So they still do have pilots.
[50:03] Speaker 1: They have, you know, sometimes there are tugboats that are
[50:06] Speaker 1: there are harbor pilot boats which which help navigate in
[50:10] Speaker 1: those very very small approach channels and even while leaving,
[50:13] Speaker 1: because even while leaving, many ships sometimes leave at once
[50:17] Speaker 1: and there there can be navigational errors, they can be
[50:19] Speaker 1: blind spots and things like that. So absolutely the Navy
[50:22] Speaker 1: has its own harbor pilots.
[50:24] Speaker 2: Yeah, right, final question, final point again, complete tangential. But
[50:28] Speaker 2: the reason I'm asking is because I thought of it
[50:30] Speaker 2: while while just like noting making notes. For this is
[50:33] Speaker 2: the point that this summary now will be in a
[50:36] Speaker 2: dockyard for maybe several months taking repairs. Because again, once
[50:40] Speaker 2: you've discuss previously how naval assets take lots of time
[50:44] Speaker 2: to repair, overhaul and stuff like that, and this is
[50:47] Speaker 2: more for you know, mindful, I want to know what's
[50:49] Speaker 2: life like in the Indian Navy. So what's it like
[50:52] Speaker 2: in terms of prove allotment to ships? From my background
[50:56] Speaker 2: of watching mostly you know, Hollywood movies off for wars
[51:00] Speaker 2: and you know, naval warfare and stuff like that. The
[51:02] Speaker 2: sort of picture I have is that you mota mota,
[51:05] Speaker 2: have the same crew that's given this one shape or
[51:07] Speaker 2: one submarine, and then you'll have some offices sort of rotating.
[51:10] Speaker 2: Once in a while, you'll have a new office coming
[51:12] Speaker 2: in for a few years, and then he'll go or
[51:14] Speaker 2: she'll go to some other, some other ship or some marine,
[51:18] Speaker 2: but the sailor.
[51:18] Speaker 3: Base usually will be more or less the same.
[51:21] Speaker 2: Is it like this is the same in the Indian
[51:23] Speaker 2: Navy and what happens at times of unsheduled repair. So
[51:27] Speaker 2: in this case, you've given us one scenario where this
[51:29] Speaker 2: entire crew will be on ground and they will have
[51:32] Speaker 2: to be available for the Board of inquiry. But assuming
[51:35] Speaker 2: their names are cleared, most of their names will be
[51:37] Speaker 2: cleared and they are, like you know said, but they're
[51:40] Speaker 2: somebody's in repair.
[51:41] Speaker 3: So what do they do? Then? What's that like for them?
[51:43] Speaker 1: There are there are loads of administrative tasks and posts
[51:46] Speaker 1: that the Navy has for people who are on shore
[51:50] Speaker 1: until their ship gets ready. A good example is an
[51:53] Speaker 1: aircraft carrier, which takes years and years to build, but
[51:56] Speaker 1: it already has a crew, So what is that crew
[51:58] Speaker 1: doing while the ship is being You know, they're very
[52:01] Speaker 1: much they're watching over what's happening with the ship. In
[52:05] Speaker 1: the case of the I N s Karrange, it's a
[52:07] Speaker 1: little bit more complicated because in this case, the crew
[52:11] Speaker 1: will not be operating the submarine. That's because the submarine
[52:14] Speaker 1: will be in drydock being fixed. May not even be
[52:17] Speaker 1: in drydock. We don't know that the damage may be
[52:21] Speaker 1: quite superficial, in which case it doesn't need to be
[52:24] Speaker 1: dry docked even and it can be fixed while it's
[52:27] Speaker 1: still in the water. But depending on what kind of
[52:31] Speaker 1: board of inquiry, the course that the board of inquiry takes,
[52:34] Speaker 1: the crew might either never get to be in the
[52:37] Speaker 1: Inskarrange again, or might be cleared and go on to
[52:41] Speaker 1: a different submarine, might take on some administrative posts, etc.
[52:45] Speaker 1: I don't want to second guess what happens to the
[52:47] Speaker 1: commanding officer and stuff, because it's sad to think about that,
[52:51] Speaker 1: because you know, nobody wants to be in this kind
[52:53] Speaker 1: of situation. But it is not at all uncommon for
[52:57] Speaker 1: ships to be in refit or to be you know,
[53:00] Speaker 1: under maintenance, etc. And the crew is either involved in
[53:04] Speaker 1: the maintenance exercise because they've got to still keep It's
[53:08] Speaker 1: tempting to think of a ship as just a shell
[53:10] Speaker 1: just sitting there being maintained. But even when a ship
[53:13] Speaker 1: is being maintained, it's switched on, systems are on. You
[53:17] Speaker 1: still have to keep it worked up and ready to
[53:20] Speaker 1: sail out. It's not like it's, you know, subc maintain group.
[53:23] Speaker 1: It's not like that ship is still very much humming
[53:26] Speaker 1: and alive and its motors are on. Its systems need
[53:28] Speaker 1: to be worked up so that you know, once everything
[53:31] Speaker 1: is done, it can sail back and be active. In
[53:34] Speaker 1: the case of the Iris Karaje, let's take a kind
[53:37] Speaker 1: of best case scenario, in the very very remote likelihood,
[53:42] Speaker 1: very very remote, almost almost impossible, very remote likelihood, that
[53:47] Speaker 1: no punishments are handed down to anybody in the crew
[53:49] Speaker 1: and they get to go back to their submarine. All
[53:53] Speaker 1: they have to do is wait in car war. They'll
[53:56] Speaker 1: be with the submarine. The crew is what sixty seventy
[53:59] Speaker 1: people that's it with the submarine while it is fixed,
[54:02] Speaker 1: and then immediately take it back out to see And
[54:05] Speaker 1: remember that after submarine is fixed, it will spend a
[54:07] Speaker 1: week or two working back up because it all those
[54:11] Speaker 1: structural changes that damage the repairs, etc. Will once again
[54:15] Speaker 1: have to be you know checked at see to make
[54:18] Speaker 1: sure that everything's fine, and then it becomes works itself
[54:22] Speaker 1: up to be operational once again. So these pauses in
[54:25] Speaker 1: your career away from the ship that you're operating is
[54:28] Speaker 1: not uncommon at all. There are many many different tasks
[54:31] Speaker 1: that can be filled by by such crews.
[54:34] Speaker 2: That's life in the navy for yeah, yess, yeah right,
[54:37] Speaker 2: We'll end it there. Thanks Shift, fascinating insights. So I
[54:39] Speaker 2: loved this conversation and I think we ended up doing
[54:42] Speaker 2: what p is set out too, which is sort of,
[54:45] Speaker 2: you know, kind of not focus on the collision per se,
[54:48] Speaker 2: but talk more about what really happens and why that
[54:51] Speaker 2: really happens in the first place. And I hope i'll
[54:54] Speaker 2: listeners in your Sorry I listeners and yours. I keep
[54:56] Speaker 2: seeing readers, you know, muscle memory so many years of
[54:59] Speaker 2: you know, just doing.
[54:59] Speaker 1: Des I don't blame it next work.
[55:01] Speaker 2: So I hope our listeners and youwers had a great
[55:04] Speaker 2: time as well. Thanks ship once again, Thanks as always
[55:06] Speaker 2: to operat U signple additiony, and thanks to our listeners
[55:09] Speaker 2: than viewers. That's it for this week's defense goes for more,
[55:11] Speaker 2: tune in next week. Till then, stay safe and not
[55:13] Speaker 2: lost any boundaries to their possport?
[55:23] Speaker 4: Do you sometimes get frustrated choosing what to eat for
[55:26] Speaker 4: diabetes management while stopping yourself from eating That chocolate pudding
[55:31] Speaker 4: is good?
[55:32] Speaker 1: But is it really enough?
[55:35] Speaker 4: This month, Health Wealth will be doing a special podcast
[55:38] Speaker 4: on World Diabetes Day, which is the fourteenth of November.
[55:42] Speaker 4: Tune in and discover with me what nutrients diabetics should
[55:47] Speaker 4: be having and how to supplement your diet for your
[55:50] Speaker 4: long term well being. You can catch the episode on
[55:53] Speaker 4: our website, YouTube, Apple, Spotify, and other audio streaming platforms.
[56:00] Speaker 4: Five

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