# Qualcomm Signs Deal to Provide Amazon With Custom AI Chips

An episode of [Bloomberg Tech](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1611767434), 8 Sep 2026, 44 min.

Audio: https://podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/41764a4f-fc64-4e11-89ba-ae7c0030ab5e/6955c0d7-954a-432d-8039-b4bf010f5ca9/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=9caafc41-289c-4115-995d-ae7c0030ab75

Bloomberg’s Riley Griffin breaks down Qualcomm's deal signing up Amazon as a data center chip customer, an agreement that will span "multiple generations." Meanwhile, another deal falls apart after Anthropic decides against acquiring AI startup Decart AI; and all eyes are on Apple as the company kicks off its product launch tomorrow, with its foldable iPhone a decade in the making. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:02] Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios.
[0:04] Speaker 2: Podcasts.
[0:05] Speaker 1: Radio. News. Bloomberg Tech is live from the heart of
[0:16] Speaker 1: Silicon Valley with Ed Ludlow in San Francisco.
[0:23] Speaker 3: Coming up, Qualcomm will provide Amazon with custom AI chips
[0:26] Speaker 3: in a deal that the company says will span multiple generations. Meanwhile,
[0:32] Speaker 3: another deal falls apart after Anthropic decides against acquiring AI startup,
[0:36] Speaker 3: Descartes AI. And all eyes on Apple as the company
[0:41] Speaker 3: kicks off its product launch tomorrow with its foldable iPhone,
[0:45] Speaker 3: a decade in the making. This is Bloomberg Tech. I'm
[0:49] Speaker 3: Riley Griffin in for Ed Ludlow. Let's get a check
[0:52] Speaker 3: on the markets with Bloomberg's Isabel Lee who joins us now.
[0:56] Speaker 1: Isabel, what are you looking at?
[0:57] Speaker 4: Hey Riley, let's get a quick look at the markets,
[0:59] Speaker 4: especially on this holiday shortened week. You're seeing the Nasdaq
[1:02] Speaker 4: here drift lower and lower down by Honestly, it's almost unchanged,
[1:05] Speaker 4: but earlier it was down by a tenth of one percent.
[1:08] Speaker 4: And of course, that comes as oil prices soar, flirting
[1:11] Speaker 4: with $ 100 a barrel. It has paired some of those gains,
[1:13] Speaker 4: but it's still higher by seven tenths of one percent.
[1:16] Speaker 4: This comes after news that Saudi Arabia reported that some
[1:19] Speaker 4: of the attacks has caused some of their energy facilities
[1:22] Speaker 4: to halt operations. And of course, that's why you see
[1:24] Speaker 4: the Brent crude there really rising. We still have a
[1:27] Speaker 4: lot of geopolitical uncertainty and not even the strength of
[1:30] Speaker 4: the chipmaker. You see the stock here, the semiconductor index rising.
[1:33] Speaker 1: Pop by more than 2%.
[1:34] Speaker 4: Not even that can offset the losses that we are
[1:37] Speaker 4: seeing here. In a quick recap of what happened last week,
[1:39] Speaker 4: we got a blowout job support that really shocked a
[1:42] Speaker 4: lot of investors and it really raised the stakes on
[1:44] Speaker 4: whether we will see a rate hike in the September
[1:46] Speaker 4: 16 meeting. And of course, the key data to watch
[1:49] Speaker 4: out for now is the Friday CPI data. All eyes
[1:52] Speaker 4: will be on that because we've heard a lot of
[1:54] Speaker 4: Fed speak And some of the Fed speakers have said
[1:57] Speaker 4: that that will be the key data to watch out for.
[2:00] Speaker 4: Let's take a look now at some of the individual movers.
[2:02] Speaker 4: You mentioned it at the top of the show, Qualcomm
[2:04] Speaker 4: popping by 5%. It pared back some of those gains,
[2:07] Speaker 4: but earlier it soared as much as 9%. And if
[2:10] Speaker 4: it holds that gain, it will be the highest since
[2:12] Speaker 4: around June. So you see here really Green on your
[2:15] Speaker 4: screen there. So to your point, Qualcomm signed a long-term
[2:17] Speaker 4: data chip deal with Amazon, one that will span multiple generations.
[2:21] Speaker 4: This gives Amazon the right to acquire $ 4 billion in shares,
[2:24] Speaker 4: and the tie-up will create customized silicon to support the
[2:27] Speaker 4: AI infrastructure of AWS. So you see a nice, healthy
[2:30] Speaker 4: gain there, and you see Amazon there down by five-tenths
[2:32] Speaker 4: of 1%, Riley.
[2:34] Speaker 1: Bloomberg's Isabelle Lee, thanks so much.
[2:36] Speaker 3: For more on Qualcomm and Amazon, Kunjan Sobhani of Bloomberg
[2:40] Speaker 3: Intelligence joins us now. Kunhan, tell us, what exactly is
[2:45] Speaker 3: Amazon buying from Qualcomm as announced today?
[2:49] Speaker 5: Yeah, so this is a sort of portfolio of multiple
[2:52] Speaker 5: different products or multiple different generations. As Qualcomm outlined recently
[2:56] Speaker 5: in its investor day, which where they didn't mention the
[3:01] Speaker 5: customer name, but we believe that first hyperscaler to ramp
[3:04] Speaker 5: was Amazon, clear from this deal now. But initially, the
[3:07] Speaker 5: ramp will be around its custom connectivity chips. So they
[3:10] Speaker 5: acquired a company recently where they got a portfolio of
[3:13] Speaker 5: connectivity IPs, whether it's 30s, whether it's 1.6 TTSPs. So
[3:18] Speaker 5: this is what initial ramp is going to be. Eventually,
[3:21] Speaker 5: it will broaden out into high bandwidth connectivity chips and
[3:24] Speaker 5: eventually getting to AI inference accelerator chips. So this will
[3:28] Speaker 5: be a broad portfolio, multiple products, over multiple generations, over
[3:33] Speaker 5: multiple years.
[3:34] Speaker 3: Qualcomm is best known for its smartphone processors. I wonder
[3:38] Speaker 3: if you could explain to us a little bit about
[3:40] Speaker 3: the significance of this deal being for AI infrastructure broadly.
[3:45] Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, Qualcomm has been trying to really diversify
[3:49] Speaker 5: their revenues away from handsets, and they publicly have announced
[3:53] Speaker 5: since last year, also had an investor day where they
[3:56] Speaker 5: laid out. They're entering into the data center chip market.
[3:58] Speaker 5: It's a big time for them, a big opportunity. So
[4:02] Speaker 5: this is really this deal validates their entry. There was
[4:05] Speaker 5: a lot of doubts whether them coming in so late,
[4:09] Speaker 5: competing with the likes of Nvidia and AMD and Intel,
[4:12] Speaker 5: would they be able to really gain some shares? So
[4:14] Speaker 5: this deal puts out some numbers. It's a $ 60 billion
[4:18] Speaker 5: ceiling in terms of the products that Amazon can buy
[4:21] Speaker 5: through them. Yes, it is over five to six years,
[4:23] Speaker 5: but really validates that they are a serious contender here.
[4:27] Speaker 1: And 60 billion is a big number.
[4:29] Speaker 3: Do you expect Amazon to really reach that maximum?
[4:34] Speaker 5: I mean, again, like I said, it's a ceiling or
[4:36] Speaker 5: going sort of beyond 2030. So initially, the targets that
[4:40] Speaker 5: Qualcomm has laid out, which is the $ 5 billion and
[4:43] Speaker 5: the $ 15 billion in 28-29, I think could be reachable,
[4:48] Speaker 5: especially given the backing of this deal.
[4:50] Speaker 6: And this is not the only customer.
[4:52] Speaker 5: There are more hyperscale customers that they have alluded to,
[4:55] Speaker 5: which we could see the announcements coming sooner.
[4:59] Speaker 3: And Qualcomm shares have jumped on the news, Kunjan. How
[5:02] Speaker 3: is the market reacting for Amazon?
[5:06] Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, look, this is overall still, it won't
[5:10] Speaker 5: impact Amazon significantly near term. Qualcomm chips are not something
[5:14] Speaker 5: which are supply constraints. It wouldn't sort of help them
[5:17] Speaker 5: deploy CapEx faster, but this does keep on boosting Amazon's stack,
[5:24] Speaker 5: which eventually, which they are using, and eventually, just like
[5:27] Speaker 5: what Google does with TPU, they plan to use that
[5:30] Speaker 5: for external customers. So bringing in more suppliers, bringing in
[5:33] Speaker 5: more vendor diversity definitely helps Amazon stack with that regards.
[5:37] Speaker 3: Kunjan Sobhani of Bloomberg Intelligence, thanks so much.
[5:41] Speaker 1: Let's stick with Qualcomm.
[5:43] Speaker 3: Advisors Capital Management Partner and Portfolio Manager Joanne Feeney joins
[5:47] Speaker 3: us now. Joanne, there's been a lot of concern about
[5:50] Speaker 3: circular financing amid this AI boom. Is this kind of
[5:53] Speaker 3: deal going to raise those concerns as well?
[5:57] Speaker 7: Riley, I think we're going to see always that conversation
[6:00] Speaker 7: pop up whenever you see cross investments by companies, by
[6:03] Speaker 7: buyers and their customers and their suppliers. So our view
[6:08] Speaker 7: is that circular financing is really Sort of an alternative
[6:12] Speaker 7: way for companies to become more vertically integrated, to have
[6:15] Speaker 7: more control over the inputs, the technology that they need
[6:19] Speaker 7: to use to build up their capacity in the future.
[6:22] Speaker 6: And this is another example of that.
[6:24] Speaker 7: Investors still have the opportunity to diversify risk and pick
[6:28] Speaker 7: the areas in which they want to have most exposure.
[6:32] Speaker 7: But these kinds of deals sort of combine the types
[6:35] Speaker 7: of exposure an investor will get now with Amazon, because
[6:39] Speaker 7: now owning Amazon means you're going to own a little
[6:40] Speaker 7: bit of Qualcomm. But it's a really innovative idea for
[6:45] Speaker 7: solving what is a complex financial markets problem, which is
[6:49] Speaker 7: the limitations on borrowing, the different capacities of balance sheets
[6:54] Speaker 7: by these companies. And it also creates long-term contracts. And
[6:58] Speaker 7: it gives Amazon more skin in the game at the
[7:00] Speaker 7: Qualcomm level, which gives Qualcomm the confidence to be able
[7:03] Speaker 7: to build up this capability and to take the risk
[7:07] Speaker 7: of creating big design teams.
[7:09] Speaker 6: And putting the resources into that.
[7:10] Speaker 7: So it's a really effective way of sharing that kind
[7:14] Speaker 7: of risk. And it means that innovation likely happens much
[7:17] Speaker 7: more quickly than it would otherwise occur.
[7:19] Speaker 3: And Joanne, what does Amazon get out of working with
[7:22] Speaker 3: Qualcomm that it couldn't achieve itself? It's a behemoth, a
[7:26] Speaker 3: company that is closely followed by anybody watching the tech sector,
[7:30] Speaker 3: but what is it getting here?
[7:32] Speaker 7: So it gets another supplier. It gets another designer, co-designer
[7:37] Speaker 7: for chips. It gets more supply on the connectivity side
[7:40] Speaker 7: and ultimately on the AI inference side.
[7:42] Speaker 6: It's already working with Marvell.
[7:44] Speaker 7: And perhaps that one partnership could have been seen as
[7:49] Speaker 7: too risky. And so they get to diversify, which gives
[7:52] Speaker 7: them better pricing power down the line for acquiring these chips.
[7:56] Speaker 7: And it also gives them more protection against NVIDIA's price gap. levels,
[8:00] Speaker 7: which ultimately probably soften a little bit with this increase
[8:05] Speaker 7: in competition among the chip designers. Broadcom is another player
[8:08] Speaker 7: here that Amazon doesn't currently work with, but it is
[8:12] Speaker 7: a way for Amazon to diversify and to get multiple
[8:15] Speaker 7: sources for these chips in the future.
[8:18] Speaker 1: I'm glad you mentioned NVIDIA.
[8:20] Speaker 3: Does this deal suggest that concentration around that company is
[8:23] Speaker 3: softening as well?
[8:25] Speaker 7: Yeah, we should expect it to, Riley, which really doesn't
[8:27] Speaker 7: diminish the attractiveness of NVIDIA as an investment. It is
[8:30] Speaker 7: one of our holdings across a few of our different strategies.
[8:34] Speaker 7: We've known it for a long time. The thing to
[8:37] Speaker 7: think about is the size of the market, how much
[8:40] Speaker 7: that is growing versus market share.
[8:43] Speaker 6: Nvidia has been dominant.
[8:44] Speaker 7: They've had massive and dominant market share, and we should
[8:47] Speaker 7: expect that market share to fall as more players come in.
[8:49] Speaker 7: But that doesn't mean that Nvidia is doomed here. By contrast,
[8:54] Speaker 7: the market itself, we believe, is growing so quickly that
[8:58] Speaker 7: all of these players, at least the ones that.
[9:00] Speaker 6: We like, Broadcom, Nvidia, AMD.
[9:04] Speaker 7: and then the users like Amazon, Microsoft, Google, et cetera,
[9:07] Speaker 7: we think they're playing into a very quickly growing market.
[9:10] Speaker 7: We see the revenues coming up at places like Anthropic
[9:13] Speaker 7: and OpenAI, at least the information we can get out
[9:15] Speaker 7: of them, which suggests that this AI infrastructure build and
[9:20] Speaker 7: deployment of applications remains a really powerful growth opportunity for
[9:25] Speaker 7: investors with a long-term horizon.
[9:28] Speaker 3: Amid this AI infrastructure boom, we have recently seen received
[9:33] Speaker 3: new jobs numbers. I wonder, when you look at that data,
[9:36] Speaker 3: what are you seeing about the data center build out?
[9:39] Speaker 5: Yeah.
[9:39] Speaker 7: So, you know, what we're seeing there is a few
[9:41] Speaker 7: different things. One is obviously a very strong jobs report.
[9:44] Speaker 7: There was some softness in some areas of infotech job
[9:47] Speaker 7: creation and real strength in other areas.
[9:50] Speaker 6: And that should be expected.
[9:51] Speaker 7: Right now we're seeing labor being drawn into data center construction.
[9:56] Speaker 6: There's always been the question of, you reduce job opportunities
[10:01] Speaker 6: in some places in the economy?
[10:02] Speaker 7: There was some evidence of that, but there was an
[10:05] Speaker 7: Economist article out over the weekend that suggested that the
[10:09] Speaker 7: AI space is not leading to massive job destruction. So
[10:14] Speaker 7: right now, the AI data center build, the infrastructure build,
[10:17] Speaker 7: is creating a lot of job opportunities. in a country
[10:21] Speaker 7: where labor is actually in short supply in that area.
[10:24] Speaker 6: So it's a tricky situation.
[10:26] Speaker 7: We've seen those fees on the H-1B visas actually constraining applications,
[10:32] Speaker 7: and that's actually the kind of labor we need more
[10:34] Speaker 7: of in this country. So we'll see how the industry
[10:37] Speaker 7: deals with that labor shortage. That could be a real
[10:40] Speaker 7: concern for investors to be watching going forward.
[10:43] Speaker 3: When you think about the labor shortage, there's also the
[10:45] Speaker 3: workers who are physically building this footprint across the United States.
[10:50] Speaker 3: Is there enough labor to support the physical build-out?
[10:54] Speaker 7: You know, Raleigh, that's exactly the right area to point at,
[10:56] Speaker 7: and that's where we may have real shortages. I mean,
[10:59] Speaker 7: immigrant labor, we know, is a big part of the
[11:01] Speaker 7: construction industry, both housing and commercial builds.
[11:05] Speaker 6: We know it's a big part of travel and leisure industry.
[11:08] Speaker 7: And so those shortages, I think, will be constraining. I've
[11:13] Speaker 7: talked to folks who report that they can't get enough
[11:16] Speaker 7: roofers to build all the houses they want And so
[11:18] Speaker 7: they've had to cut their housing building plans back by
[11:21] Speaker 7: half this year.
[11:22] Speaker 6: This is a client down in Texas, for example. So,
[11:26] Speaker 6: you know, we are starting to see that. I think
[11:28] Speaker 6: it is constraining the housing industry.
[11:29] Speaker 7: And I think that the construction workers are being pulled
[11:32] Speaker 7: into the data center builds and it's hurting actually other
[11:35] Speaker 7: parts of the economy. So, so far, they're able to
[11:37] Speaker 7: pay up to get the construction labor that they need.
[11:40] Speaker 7: But it's certainly something that we need to keep top
[11:42] Speaker 7: of mind.
[11:43] Speaker 3: Joanne McFeeney with Advisors Capital Partner and Portfolio Manager.
[11:48] Speaker 1: Thank you so much.
[11:49] Speaker 3: Let's get to a headline that just crossed the terminal
[11:52] Speaker 3: a few moments ago. The European Union and Canada are
[11:55] Speaker 3: working towards a new relationship that will range from trade
[11:59] Speaker 3: to security to offset the global power politics dominated by
[12:03] Speaker 3: the U.S.
[12:04] Speaker 1: And China.
[12:06] Speaker 3: Sources say the European Commission president is expected to announce
[12:09] Speaker 3: the plans at a State of the Union address in Strasbourg, France,
[12:13] Speaker 3: next Wednesday. Coming up, Mistral AI raises $ 3. 5 billion in
[12:19] Speaker 3: its latest funding round led by Samsung. We'll hear from
[12:22] Speaker 3: the French startup's CEO and co-founder, Arthur Mensch, next.
[12:26] Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Tech.
[12:44] Speaker 3: Anthropic is walking away from a potential $ 6 billion deal
[12:48] Speaker 3: to buy AI startup Descartes. That's according to sources. Anthropic
[12:52] Speaker 3: had been exploring a deal but ultimately walked away, though
[12:54] Speaker 3: the companies might still find other ways to collaborate. Here
[12:58] Speaker 3: with more is Bloomberg's Leanna Baker. Tell me a little
[13:02] Speaker 3: bit about the.
[13:02] Speaker 1: Details of this deal. Fallen apart deal.
[13:05] Speaker 8: So on my team, the deals team, we love to
[13:08] Speaker 8: report on transactions that are actually happening. But sometimes when
[13:10] Speaker 8: you have these high profile names like Anthropic, which is
[13:13] Speaker 8: on the cusp of its huge initial public offering, it
[13:16] Speaker 8: decided to walk away from this acquisition because Descartes was
[13:20] Speaker 8: a company founded in Tel Aviv. It works in the
[13:23] Speaker 8: AI space and it was really sort of in demand
[13:28] Speaker 8: and the valuation would have been up to six billion.
[13:31] Speaker 8: We're not exactly sure why Descartes balked from this, but
[13:35] Speaker 8: they did perform due diligence on the company and then
[13:37] Speaker 8: at some point decided not to pursue this.
[13:39] Speaker 1: We see this a lot.
[13:41] Speaker 8: With acquisitions to do successful M & A. It's all
[13:43] Speaker 8: about timing and maybe the timing wasn't right for Anthropic,
[13:47] Speaker 8: but Descartes might have another buyer. We don't have the
[13:51] Speaker 8: reporting to say who it is right now, but we'll
[13:53] Speaker 8: definitely be chasing what company could step in for this startup.
[13:58] Speaker 3: And for Anthropic's sake, the fact that they were exploring
[14:01] Speaker 3: this deal in the first place, what was the technology
[14:03] Speaker 3: they were seeking out of the deal?
[14:05] Speaker 8: It would have fit in somewhere in its inference unit.
[14:08] Speaker 8: I'm not super technical on what exactly Descartes does. They
[14:12] Speaker 8: have a video engine, you can do video editing, but
[14:14] Speaker 8: I've also read that it makes some of the AI
[14:17] Speaker 8: models more efficient with video. So this is something that
[14:21] Speaker 8: would have fit in somewhere. OpenAI, Anthropos competitor, has been
[14:24] Speaker 8: a little more acquisitive when it comes to acquisitions, but
[14:29] Speaker 8: Anthropic hasn't been as busy buying companies. They've been sort
[14:33] Speaker 8: of building, and we'll see ahead of this IPO what happens.
[14:37] Speaker 8: Once they're a public company, then they'll have a currency
[14:40] Speaker 8: to do more deals. This one probably won't come back,
[14:44] Speaker 8: but it'll be interesting to see when Anthropic is public
[14:46] Speaker 8: and what deals it could do then.
[14:47] Speaker 3: We're all waiting with bated breath for the S-1, that
[14:50] Speaker 3: document that will reveal the insides of Anthropic's business ahead
[14:54] Speaker 3: of the IPO. How does this failed deal fit into
[14:58] Speaker 3: that picture? What kind of details are you looking for
[15:00] Speaker 3: in that document when it comes to that?
[15:02] Speaker 8: It's funny because when SpaceX filed their prospectus, there was
[15:05] Speaker 8: details on the cursor acquisition in that document. So we're
[15:08] Speaker 8: going to be poring over Anthropix Financials to see if
[15:11] Speaker 8: there's any mention of dealmaking. But this one, Descartes, will
[15:15] Speaker 8: probably not be in the filing, I can predict, since
[15:18] Speaker 8: they've decided to abandon this pursuit, which again happens in
[15:23] Speaker 8: the world of M & A.
[15:24] Speaker 3: And as I understand it, partnership is still possible even
[15:27] Speaker 3: if it's not an acquisition process. Is that something we
[15:31] Speaker 3: anticipate learning more about? And would that keep the dollars
[15:35] Speaker 3: and cents off the balance sheet there?
[15:36] Speaker 8: Yeah, a commercial partnership is something that we said could
[15:40] Speaker 8: happen because that just means Anthropic doesn't want to close
[15:44] Speaker 8: the door on Descartes technology. They want to maintain good relationships.
[15:49] Speaker 8: And we've seen just so many partnerships across the board
[15:51] Speaker 8: in AI and data centers. And this is one of them,
[15:54] Speaker 8: but nothing to report right now.
[15:56] Speaker 3: Bloomberg's Liana Raker, thanks for bringing us the latest. Let's
[16:00] Speaker 3: take a look at today's big number, $ 24. 4 billion. That's
[16:04] Speaker 3: the latest valuation for French startup Mistral AI after raising
[16:08] Speaker 3: $ 3. 5 billion in its latest funding round, led by Samsung.
[16:12] Speaker 3: Bloomberg Tech's Europe Tom McKenzie spoke with Mistral AI CEO
[16:18] Speaker 3: and co-founder Arthur Mensch yesterday.
[16:19] Speaker 9: Well, it's of course an endorsement and I think a
[16:24] Speaker 9: sign that the directions we've taken for the last three
[16:26] Speaker 9: years has been the right one.
[16:28] Speaker 6: Those 3 billion euros.
[16:29] Speaker 9: That we've just raised are going to be put at
[16:31] Speaker 9: work to scale our training capacity, to further deploy the
[16:35] Speaker 9: infrastructure that we need to serve our enterprise customers, to
[16:38] Speaker 9: further invest in industrial artificial intelligence, which is what we
[16:43] Speaker 9: have been doing with ASML and what we intend to
[16:45] Speaker 9: be doing more and more in the semi-industry space. And
[16:48] Speaker 9: it's also a way for us to continue to scale
[16:50] Speaker 9: our go-to-market globally in that this fundraising is also a
[16:54] Speaker 9: way for us to further expand in the US, in Asia,
[16:57] Speaker 9: and of course, to double down on what we've.
[16:59] Speaker 6: Been doing in Europe.
[17:00] Speaker 2: And do you expect compute to remain constrained through 2027?
[17:03] Speaker 2: NVIDIA is an investor. You've now got Samsung, the high
[17:07] Speaker 2: bandwidth memory. We know that's constrained. Does compute continue to
[17:11] Speaker 2: be constrained into next year? For how long does that
[17:13] Speaker 2: remain a story?
[17:15] Speaker 9: It will probably remain a story for a while. We
[17:17] Speaker 9: do have good access, and so therefore we've been able
[17:20] Speaker 9: to build significant capacity for our customers. We also have
[17:23] Speaker 9: started to run programs where our customers are actually committing
[17:27] Speaker 9: to actually use the.
[17:28] Speaker 6: Capacity we're building for them.
[17:30] Speaker 9: Which is a way for them to secure prices because
[17:33] Speaker 9: we're in a world where the prices are going up
[17:35] Speaker 9: because of the capacity constraints that we have on logic
[17:38] Speaker 9: and that we have on memory. Everything that we do
[17:42] Speaker 9: at Mistral is really meant to reduce the cost for
[17:45] Speaker 9: our customers.
[17:46] Speaker 6: The fact that we have ASML, NVIDIA, and.
[17:48] Speaker 9: Now Samsung at our cap table is also tying us
[17:51] Speaker 9: further into the semi-industry where we are a provider of technology.
[17:54] Speaker 9: We bring AI to make the semi-industry more efficient. And
[17:59] Speaker 9: so that kind of collaboration, I think, is a way
[18:02] Speaker 9: also for us to further guarantee to our customers that
[18:06] Speaker 9: we are very strong at providing verticalized AI solutions for
[18:11] Speaker 9: high-end manufacturing, but also able to give good cost structure
[18:16] Speaker 9: when it comes to doing every kind of AI deployment.
[18:19] Speaker 2: And I'm wondering, your approach, full stack, that focus on industry,
[18:23] Speaker 2: that focus on engineering, on design, with the full stack,
[18:28] Speaker 2: I'm wondering how that compares. It's a very different approach
[18:30] Speaker 2: to OpenAI and Anthropic. And I'm just wondering if investors
[18:35] Speaker 2: are looking in the wrong direction. Does it suggest that
[18:39] Speaker 2: the Anthropic OpenAI Google approach is possibly not the right approach?
[18:43] Speaker 9: Well, what we see today in the domain of AI
[18:46] Speaker 9: is that there is a very strong shift toward open
[18:49] Speaker 9: source models as a foundation for building critical workloads for
[18:54] Speaker 9: using AI into critical processes. Why is that? Because when
[18:57] Speaker 9: you're running a critical process in your factory, you want
[19:00] Speaker 9: to have business continuity, you want to have cost control,
[19:04] Speaker 9: and you want to make sure that the IP that
[19:06] Speaker 9: you've been building for decades is actually used to create
[19:09] Speaker 9: assets that are uniquely your own. And so that has
[19:11] Speaker 9: naturally brought a lot of our customers to build on
[19:15] Speaker 9: open source foundations. And the fact that we have been
[19:18] Speaker 9: a leader in releasing open source models and that we're
[19:21] Speaker 9: able to serve them at scale on infrastructure that we
[19:24] Speaker 9: own is indeed making a difference.
[19:26] Speaker 2: So to be clear, longer term, your approach, the Mistral approach,
[19:30] Speaker 2: wins out over frontier labs like Anthropic and OpenAI?
[19:34] Speaker 9: I mean, to be clear today, if you're an enterprise
[19:37] Speaker 9: decision maker, almost, I would say 99% of the use
[19:41] Speaker 9: cases you have as an enterprise can be built on
[19:44] Speaker 9: open source models. And so it means that the IP
[19:47] Speaker 9: margin that you're paying when you're paying for closed models
[19:49] Speaker 9: is not a margin you should be paying if you
[19:51] Speaker 9: were to be efficient. And so the companies that are
[19:55] Speaker 9: the most advanced and the companies that have the biggest
[19:58] Speaker 9: requirements when it comes to controlling their data and the
[20:01] Speaker 9: biggest requirements to have business continuity, and they happen to
[20:04] Speaker 9: be in manufacturing, in financial services, in defense, Well, those
[20:09] Speaker 9: companies have already decided that they will mostly build their
[20:11] Speaker 9: technology on top of open source models. And I think
[20:14] Speaker 9: this movement will continue to increase because structurally AI is
[20:19] Speaker 9: an enormous market. It's going to drive multiple digits of
[20:23] Speaker 9: the global GDP in the next few years. And it
[20:26] Speaker 9: is such a big market that any region cannot depend,
[20:30] Speaker 9: cannot decide to buy the technology. They need to produce
[20:33] Speaker 9: the technology. And if you want to produce AI, you
[20:35] Speaker 9: need to use common assets and then customize them, deploy
[20:39] Speaker 9: them on infrastructure that you control. And so you have
[20:42] Speaker 9: macroeconomic reasons why open source AI is actually starting to win.
[20:46] Speaker 3: That was Mistral AI CEO and co-founder Arthur Mensch speaking
[20:50] Speaker 3: with Bloomberg's Tom McKenzie. Coming up, OpenAI's top scientist is
[20:55] Speaker 3: calling for extreme caution in AI development. We'll have that
[20:59] Speaker 3: story next. This is Bloomberg Tech.
[21:18] Speaker 10: It's time now for Talking Tech. I'm Yahaira Anand. First up,
[21:21] Speaker 10: OpenAI's chief scientist is warning that AI is evolving so
[21:25] Speaker 10: rapidly that it is becoming increasingly difficult for humans to
[21:29] Speaker 10: understand and understand. and control. In a post over the weekend,
[21:33] Speaker 10: he says that this time calls for, quote, extreme caution,
[21:37] Speaker 10: adding that he expects AI labs to voluntarily slow development
[21:41] Speaker 10: for safety reasons. Plus, Australia is considering another swing at
[21:46] Speaker 10: social media platforms. A proposed bill would let users opt
[21:49] Speaker 10: out of platforms' algorithms and choose what appears in their feeds.
[21:54] Speaker 10: Last year, the country instituted the world's first ban on
[21:57] Speaker 10: social media for kids under 16. And Meta has run
[22:02] Speaker 10: more than 300 ads on its platforms containing suspected AI-generated
[22:07] Speaker 10: child sexual abuse material just this year. That's according to
[22:11] Speaker 10: a new report by the nonprofit Tech Transparency Project. The
[22:15] Speaker 10: ads typically promoted deepfake nudify apps. A Meta spokesperson said
[22:20] Speaker 10: many of the ads had already been removed and the
[22:22] Speaker 10: company continues to strengthen detection.
[22:25] Speaker 11: Riley.
[22:26] Speaker 1: Thanks, Yahaira.
[22:27] Speaker 3: Coming up, SpaceX may be looking at a boost in
[22:30] Speaker 3: its NASDAQ weighting following the index's quarterly rebalance. We have
[22:35] Speaker 3: more on that next. This is Bloomberg Tech. Welcome back
[23:02] Speaker 3: to Bloomberg Tech. I'm Riley Griffin in for Ed Ludlow.
[23:05] Speaker 3: Let's take a look at the markets. Bloomberg's Carmen Reinicke
[23:08] Speaker 3: joins us now. Carmen, what are you looking at?
[23:10] Speaker 1: All right. Thanks, Riley.
[23:11] Speaker 12: Let's take a quick look first at shares of Qualcomm,
[23:14] Speaker 12: one of the top tech stock movers in the market today.
[23:18] Speaker 12: So the stock is having its best day in more
[23:20] Speaker 12: than a month after signing up Amazon. And it's as
[23:23] Speaker 12: a data center chip customer. So this is a deal
[23:26] Speaker 12: that'll span multiple generations and allow Amazon to buy $ 4
[23:30] Speaker 12: billion of Qualcomm stock. So we're seeing that higher today.
[23:34] Speaker 12: Shares of Amazon at the same time down about half
[23:37] Speaker 12: a percent. Let's go to SpaceX as well. Everyone's watching this.
[23:41] Speaker 12: stock all the time and we're certainly no exception. So
[23:45] Speaker 12: a wave of buying set to hit here for SpaceX
[23:48] Speaker 12: as the NASDAQ 100 rebalances later this month. The reason
[23:52] Speaker 12: for this is that the company will have a larger
[23:55] Speaker 12: weighting in the index due to share lockups that have
[23:58] Speaker 12: expired since it was added to the index shortly after
[24:01] Speaker 12: its IPO. So according to a JP Morgan estimate, this
[24:05] Speaker 12: could lead to a wave of more than $ 12 billion
[24:07] Speaker 12: in net passive buying for shares of SpaceX. One of
[24:12] Speaker 12: the top things that will be on our radar, especially
[24:14] Speaker 12: as there's another lockup expiration hitting later in the week.
[24:18] Speaker 1: Back to you, Riley.
[24:19] Speaker 3: Bloomberg's Carmen Reinecke, thank you. Another stock moving today, ASML.
[24:25] Speaker 3: Take a look at its ADRs. Samsung and TSMC have
[24:29] Speaker 3: agreed to begin adopting the Dutch firm's latest semiconductor production gear.
[24:33] Speaker 3: And together, the companies will work towards a critical shift
[24:36] Speaker 3: that should speed up chip production. Bloomberg's Peter Elstrom is
[24:40] Speaker 3: here to give us the details. Peter, these are machines
[24:43] Speaker 3: that can cost up to $ 400 million each.
[24:46] Speaker 1: What do they actually do?
[24:50] Speaker 13: So ASML makes the machines that help companies like TSMC, Samsung,
[24:55] Speaker 13: and Intel produce semiconductors. They make them for NVIDIA and
[25:00] Speaker 13: Apple and, of course, the memory chips for the companies themselves, too.
[25:04] Speaker 13: And what ASML has been doing is has been trying
[25:06] Speaker 13: to persuade customers to make this transition from their existing
[25:10] Speaker 13: EUV technology to the high NA EUV machines that cost
[25:14] Speaker 13: $ 400 million. As you mentioned, the current generation is maybe
[25:17] Speaker 13: about half that cost. And there have been a couple
[25:20] Speaker 13: of customers that have gone early. Intel is the leading
[25:23] Speaker 13: example of that, where they've jumped into this high NA technology.
[25:26] Speaker 13: But what we heard today is commitments from both Samsung
[25:30] Speaker 13: and TSMC to make that transition. Samsung is going to
[25:33] Speaker 13: begin using these new machines in 2028. TSMC is going
[25:38] Speaker 13: to begin using these machines in 2030. And the goal
[25:42] Speaker 13: is that they are going to move to more efficient,
[25:45] Speaker 13: lower cost production of the most advanced chips on the market.
[25:49] Speaker 13: We of course have been chip constrained in a number
[25:51] Speaker 13: of different areas. We've heard this from Nvidia and Jensen
[25:54] Speaker 13: Huang himself, that if only they could get more production,
[25:57] Speaker 13: they'd be able to satisfy the market's demand. That's also
[26:00] Speaker 13: true on the memory chip side, where Samsung and SK
[26:02] Speaker 13: Hynix and Micron have all been struggling with these technologies.
[26:06] Speaker 13: So this is part of a broader collaboration agreement where
[26:08] Speaker 13: the companies want to move from photo masks, which is
[26:12] Speaker 13: sort of a technical term, it's the blueprint essentially for
[26:15] Speaker 13: a chip, As they print patterns onto silicon, they want
[26:19] Speaker 13: to move from the 6-inch format to a 12-inch format.
[26:22] Speaker 13: That way, they're going to be able to reap greater
[26:24] Speaker 13: efficiencies and lower costs from the production systems.
[26:27] Speaker 3: And Peter, why are we seeing the world's biggest chip
[26:30] Speaker 3: makers make this decision, this shift together right now?
[26:35] Speaker 13: Well, it has been a challenge in the past. They've
[26:37] Speaker 13: talked about this sort of transition from six inches to
[26:40] Speaker 13: 12-inch photo masks in the past. Any one company trying
[26:43] Speaker 13: to do this on their own would be very difficult.
[26:46] Speaker 13: The companies are now doing this together, doing it in
[26:49] Speaker 13: lockstep with each other to be able to have the benefit.
[26:52] Speaker 13: So ASML can make the move with the other companies.
[26:55] Speaker 13: They're going to work with TSMC, Samsung, Intel. SK Hynix
[26:58] Speaker 13: came in late and said they're also looking at making
[27:01] Speaker 13: this transition themselves, both to the high NA machines and
[27:04] Speaker 13: also to these 12 inch masks. So as a group,
[27:08] Speaker 13: they figure they're able to make this transition a bit
[27:11] Speaker 13: more smoothly than they could if they were trying to
[27:13] Speaker 13: do it individually.
[27:14] Speaker 3: Bloomberg's Peter Ahlstrom, thank you for the update. Recent earnings
[27:18] Speaker 3: from Nvidia, Broadcom, and Dell underscore just how strong demand
[27:21] Speaker 3: for AI infrastructure remains. But investors are also getting more
[27:25] Speaker 3: selective as the build-out runs into constraints around power, memory,
[27:29] Speaker 3: and capacity. Here to discuss is Wealth Enhancement Group Portfolio
[27:33] Speaker 3: Consulting Director, Ayoko Yoshioka. Ayoko, tell me, now that you've
[27:39] Speaker 3: had some time to process the earnings, what are we
[27:41] Speaker 3: looking for the back half of this year from these
[27:43] Speaker 3: tech companies?
[27:45] Speaker 14: Sure.
[27:45] Speaker 1: Hi, Riley.
[27:46] Speaker 15: So, you know, we think that just given the power
[27:49] Speaker 15: of the AI infrastructure build-out, we continue to expect earnings
[27:53] Speaker 15: growth to remain at these elevated growth rates going into 2027.
[27:59] Speaker 14: There's just too much demand and, you know, compute is
[28:03] Speaker 14: supply constrained.
[28:04] Speaker 15: And so we continue to expect these high growth rates
[28:06] Speaker 15: out of many of these tech companies.
[28:08] Speaker 3: And despite promising earnings results... tech companies haven't seen their
[28:12] Speaker 3: valuations rise accordingly.
[28:14] Speaker 1: Why is that?
[28:16] Speaker 15: Yeah, you know, I think one of the things is
[28:18] Speaker 15: that this time around, investors are very risk aware and
[28:22] Speaker 15: very aware of.
[28:23] Speaker 14: That earnings growth second derivative.
[28:26] Speaker 15: And we're waiting to see when that deceleration in that
[28:30] Speaker 15: growth rate is going to happen. Do we go from 60%
[28:33] Speaker 15: to 40%? It's still great growth. It's just that that
[28:36] Speaker 15: growth rate is decelerating. And unlike the tech bubble in 2000,
[28:41] Speaker 15: we don't have really elevated valuations this time around.
[28:47] Speaker 3: We're still looking to see revenue come in for many
[28:50] Speaker 3: of these AI companies. In the interim, a lot of
[28:52] Speaker 3: attention has been on AGI, Artificial General Intelligence. Could you
[28:56] Speaker 3: give us a state of play about where the companies
[28:58] Speaker 3: stack up right now and what you're watching for?
[29:01] Speaker 8: Sure.
[29:02] Speaker 15: There's so much in regards to AGI, or overall artificial
[29:07] Speaker 15: general intelligence, or intelligence that is really on par with
[29:11] Speaker 15: human intelligence. And I think a lot of news over
[29:14] Speaker 15: the weekend really talked about how AI is really improving
[29:18] Speaker 15: upon itself. And you know, this whole recursive self-improvement that
[29:23] Speaker 15: you're seeing in AI building better models. I think at
[29:26] Speaker 15: the same time, you know, as you've seen with GBT
[29:30] Speaker 15: Astra or, you know, Anthropix Mythos, is that, you know,
[29:35] Speaker 15: there is some sort of caution related to just the
[29:38] Speaker 15: overall rollout and how quick we can get this to
[29:41] Speaker 15: as many people as possible. I think there's a little
[29:44] Speaker 15: bit more restraint when it comes to the overall governance
[29:47] Speaker 15: related to how powerful these models are.
[29:50] Speaker 3: How is the market interpreting that caution, those checks and
[29:53] Speaker 3: balances being put in place by the companies more so
[29:56] Speaker 3: than the government?
[29:58] Speaker 15: I think it's being viewed positively in that we need
[30:01] Speaker 15: to make sure that, you know, the benefits for AI
[30:05] Speaker 15: to just broader humanity are really highlighted. I think OpenAI
[30:10] Speaker 15: has talked about that as well in terms of, you know,
[30:12] Speaker 15: making sure that this is a benefit for all of us,
[30:15] Speaker 15: that it's not the big, scary, you know, job loss
[30:19] Speaker 15: that everybody expects that AI will take over everybody's jobs.
[30:25] Speaker 3: And among the suite of AI companies, all eyes right
[30:27] Speaker 3: now are on Anthropic as it prepares that S1, the
[30:31] Speaker 3: document that will let people look under the hood and
[30:34] Speaker 3: see what the company has been up to in advance
[30:36] Speaker 3: of its IPO. What metrics will you be looking for
[30:40] Speaker 3: when that document drops?
[30:42] Speaker 16: Sure.
[30:43] Speaker 15: I think from our perspective, just the overall business model
[30:47] Speaker 15: and making sure, what's the run rate on the cost?
[30:50] Speaker 14: I think we've gotten a lot of.
[30:51] Speaker 15: Information on the ARR and the overall revenue pace, but
[30:56] Speaker 15: we want to know how much they're burning in terms
[30:59] Speaker 15: of cash and looking to see what the improvements are
[31:04] Speaker 15: going forward, what their expectations are.
[31:07] Speaker 3: And as they proceed developing these models, we're also thinking
[31:11] Speaker 3: about the physical infrastructure of this AI boom. What bottlenecks
[31:16] Speaker 3: are you watching for as the build-out continues?
[31:20] Speaker 14: Sure, there's so many.
[31:21] Speaker 15: I mean, we have some bottlenecks when it comes to
[31:24] Speaker 15: advanced packaging. We've got bottlenecks that are now really being
[31:27] Speaker 15: focused on the overall power generation for these data centers.
[31:32] Speaker 15: And just the data centers themselves, there's so much backlash,
[31:36] Speaker 15: I think, in certain communities.
[31:38] Speaker 14: In regards to the build-out here.
[31:40] Speaker 15: And so we really have to watch out whether or
[31:42] Speaker 15: not the timing of the physical build-out of AI, it
[31:47] Speaker 15: creates a mismatch in terms of investor expectations since these
[31:50] Speaker 15: stocks trade every second.
[31:53] Speaker 3: Bloomberg today reported that Anthropic did not move forward with
[31:58] Speaker 3: a deal for Descartes AI, a company that was seeking
[32:01] Speaker 3: to make its compute work more efficiently. This question of
[32:05] Speaker 3: Efficient compute is.
[32:06] Speaker 1: An important one.
[32:08] Speaker 3: What do you make of that deal not moving forward
[32:10] Speaker 3: in advance of the IPO?
[32:13] Speaker 9: Sure.
[32:13] Speaker 15: You know, I think when it comes to whatever happened
[32:17] Speaker 15: with the M & A, I'm sure there were reasons
[32:19] Speaker 15: on both sides why this wasn't completed. But when it
[32:22] Speaker 15: comes to the efficiency of AI, I think it's something that.
[32:25] Speaker 14: Everybody's paying attention to.
[32:27] Speaker 15: We're looking at the cost per token, which has declined
[32:30] Speaker 15: substantially over the last several months. But the rental sort
[32:34] Speaker 15: of prices for GPUs when it comes to model training
[32:38] Speaker 15: has increased even for some of the older NVIDIA chips.
[32:41] Speaker 14: And so I think it's a balance in.
[32:42] Speaker 15: Terms of what the cost is per megawatt for a
[32:46] Speaker 15: job to be completed. And then you can start to
[32:49] Speaker 15: do the analysis as to whether or not, you know,
[32:52] Speaker 15: a human task can be completed at a efficient rate
[32:57] Speaker 15: relative to an AI task.
[32:59] Speaker 1: Amazing. What a breadth of knowledge.
[33:01] Speaker 3: Thank you so much, Ayako Yoshioka of Wealth Enhancement Group.
[33:05] Speaker 1: Appreciate it.
[33:07] Speaker 3: Coming up, we'll speak to the CEO of Forrest about
[33:10] Speaker 3: the AI healthcare startup's latest funding round.
[33:14] Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Tech.
[33:36] Speaker 3: Healthcare automation startup Forus has raised $ 150 million in a
[33:41] Speaker 3: Series C funding round, tripling its valuation to $ 3 billion
[33:45] Speaker 3: just months after completing its last fundraise. It's the latest
[33:49] Speaker 3: deal to show investors rising interest in AI tools aimed
[33:53] Speaker 3: at speeding up patients' access to medicines. Forus CEO, Sahir Jaggi,
[33:58] Speaker 3: joins us now. Sahir, tell me, this wasn't initially planned
[34:02] Speaker 3: as a fundraise.
[34:03] Speaker 1: Why did you move forward with it?
[34:05] Speaker 16: Yeah, I mean, so the reason we're building our company
[34:08] Speaker 16: is because you're seeing this huge explosion in AI accelerating
[34:12] Speaker 16: drug discovery, but especially for complex conditions like autoimmune diseases
[34:16] Speaker 16: and cancers. But it still takes decades and billions of
[34:20] Speaker 16: dollars to turn a molecule into a production medicine. And
[34:23] Speaker 16: once those medicines are in market, doctors and patients often
[34:26] Speaker 16: spend weeks or months working through insurance coverage, affordability, supply
[34:30] Speaker 16: chain to get their medicine back. with over one in
[34:32] Speaker 16: three patients never even getting their first dose. And the
[34:35] Speaker 16: reason that exists is because the system is so complicated
[34:38] Speaker 16: that any individual physician or patient can't really navigate through
[34:41] Speaker 16: it without support. And what we've built over the last
[34:44] Speaker 16: couple of years is this platform where we're able to
[34:47] Speaker 16: help individuals get their medicine on time and affordably without
[34:50] Speaker 16: any of the burden falling on their shoulders.
[34:52] Speaker 3: And what does the new funding allow you to do
[34:54] Speaker 3: that you couldn't have done.
[34:55] Speaker 1: Six months ago?
[34:57] Speaker 16: So we have been working with real doctors and patients
[34:59] Speaker 16: for a couple of years now, We are being used
[35:02] Speaker 16: across all 50 states, reaching patients across 85% of zip codes.
[35:06] Speaker 16: And we have thousands of providers who are using the
[35:08] Speaker 16: platform every day to help their patients get on therapy.
[35:11] Speaker 16: What we've been doing with this has been focused initially
[35:15] Speaker 16: on a first set of specialties, really helping doctors and
[35:17] Speaker 16: patients in a select set of conditions and a select
[35:19] Speaker 16: set of geographies. And with this capital, it's really gonna
[35:22] Speaker 16: allow us to expand across all different specialties of medicine,
[35:25] Speaker 16: all types of care, so ranging from clinics to hospital systems,
[35:29] Speaker 16: to confusion centers, and making sure that we can make
[35:31] Speaker 16: our platform available to every doctor's office in the country
[35:34] Speaker 16: so every disease is treated with the best medicine available.
[35:37] Speaker 3: And what specialties have you started initially focusing on? What
[35:40] Speaker 3: learnings are you taking away from those specialties?
[35:42] Speaker 16: Yeah, so we started in the specialties focused around autoimmune diseases, right?
[35:46] Speaker 16: These are medications and conditions where individual patients are seeing
[35:50] Speaker 16: flare-ups and issues that are not easily treatable by traditional
[35:54] Speaker 16: generic medications and require more complex drugs. and a lot
[35:57] Speaker 16: more care around kind of the diagnosis and treatment decisions.
[36:00] Speaker 16: And so those are specialties like dermatology, gastroenterology, rheumatology, allergy,
[36:05] Speaker 16: places where you're really trying to navigate what specific issues
[36:10] Speaker 16: are underlying someone's symptoms and treating them with more and
[36:12] Speaker 16: more complex treatments until you find success. And we felt
[36:15] Speaker 16: that those areas were really underserved by the market and
[36:18] Speaker 16: places where both the physicians and the patients felt like
[36:20] Speaker 16: they had a lot of need. What we've learned from
[36:22] Speaker 16: those spaces is that there's not just complexity for the
[36:27] Speaker 16: medications that are most expensive, but really all medications that
[36:31] Speaker 16: have some sort of additional process around the insurance coverage process,
[36:37] Speaker 16: around financial assistance and affordability, around supply chain and navigating fulfillment,
[36:41] Speaker 16: and As we've kind of gone through those specialties, you
[36:44] Speaker 16: see different kind of situations where patients are not just
[36:47] Speaker 16: taking medications that they pop in as a pill at home,
[36:49] Speaker 16: but even medications that they have to go into the
[36:51] Speaker 16: clinic and get as an IV in their arm. And
[36:54] Speaker 16: working through all that has really prepared us now to
[36:56] Speaker 16: expand it to other specialties like oncology, cancer centers, neurology,
[37:01] Speaker 16: treating patients with Alzheimer's and multiple sclerosis. These cases where
[37:04] Speaker 16: the diseases are even more acute and have more complexity
[37:06] Speaker 16: around them.
[37:07] Speaker 3: With these complicated drugs, these biologics, companies have an incentive
[37:12] Speaker 3: to keep patients on them or get them on them
[37:14] Speaker 3: in the first place. Revenue comes to this company from
[37:18] Speaker 3: the pharmaceutical companies. How do you build trust with patients
[37:21] Speaker 3: who are skeptical about big pharma and the gaming of
[37:24] Speaker 3: the system to ensure that they get on those drugs?
[37:27] Speaker 13: Yeah.
[37:27] Speaker 16: Well, our first focus for most is ensuring that people
[37:30] Speaker 16: get the therapy that they need. What we learned when
[37:33] Speaker 16: we started spending time initially in the space and meeting
[37:35] Speaker 16: folks was that many patients with these conditions are actually
[37:39] Speaker 16: desperate for help. They've been with these conditions for years.
[37:42] Speaker 16: They've been struggling to get treatment. And when their doctor
[37:45] Speaker 16: finally provides them with something that could be a cure
[37:48] Speaker 16: or something that could bring their condition into remission, it's
[37:50] Speaker 16: so challenging to get it that it's actually really hard
[37:53] Speaker 16: for them to stay on it through their full course
[37:55] Speaker 16: of treatment. You have people who are going through the
[37:57] Speaker 16: process on an annual basis, having to renew their access
[38:00] Speaker 16: to medication, and every time they change jobs, every time
[38:03] Speaker 16: they move, every time their insurance company tries to change policies,
[38:07] Speaker 16: they have this full process they have to go through
[38:09] Speaker 16: again from scratch with totally different rules.
[38:11] Speaker 6: And so they're so.
[38:13] Speaker 16: Thrilled when there's some product or tool that can help
[38:16] Speaker 16: them do that easier and faster. And we're able to
[38:18] Speaker 16: make it so that they can get this medication without
[38:21] Speaker 16: that complexity.
[38:21] Speaker 1: Bleeding through them.
[38:22] Speaker 16: Now, as you mentioned, we partner with life sciences companies
[38:25] Speaker 16: to help them develop and bring new therapies to market
[38:28] Speaker 16: faster and more efficiently. And on one side, you might think,
[38:31] Speaker 16: you know, as you mentioned, there's some fear around big pharma,
[38:34] Speaker 16: but what we really see is that the patients with
[38:37] Speaker 16: these conditions are are the people most excited about these
[38:41] Speaker 16: companies being involved in more medicines. In fact, their primary
[38:44] Speaker 16: goal is actually, I hope that more companies are investing
[38:47] Speaker 16: in more drugs to make more progress for people like me.
[38:50] Speaker 16: Because if you have this disease, sure, you might have
[38:52] Speaker 16: some things you've read in the news, but most important
[38:55] Speaker 16: is that the science is actually accelerating towards a point
[38:57] Speaker 16: where your condition can be treated, where you can actually
[38:59] Speaker 16: get the cure and treatment that you need.
[39:01] Speaker 3: And you've come on today to Bloomberg Tech. Tell us
[39:03] Speaker 3: a little bit about the AI implementation that's taking place
[39:07] Speaker 3: in your business? How is AI facilitating this better process?
[39:10] Speaker 16: So the way that we actually provide the product that
[39:13] Speaker 16: we do to patients and physicians is by giving every
[39:16] Speaker 16: prescription its own AI agent that navigates through the process
[39:19] Speaker 16: on their behalf. So think of this almost like an
[39:21] Speaker 16: AI case manager, right? It's taking into account each individual
[39:25] Speaker 16: patient's medical history, their financial situation, their insurance coverage, and
[39:30] Speaker 16: using all that to govern how it navigates through the
[39:33] Speaker 16: supply chain for them. These are situations where every single patient,
[39:37] Speaker 16: every payer, every drug, every pharmacy has different constraints, different
[39:41] Speaker 16: factors you have to understand. And so it really requires
[39:45] Speaker 16: the complexity that an agent can handle, dipping into all
[39:48] Speaker 16: sorts of tools, all sorts of data sets, and relying
[39:51] Speaker 16: on clinical models, specialized sub-agents, and millions of previous cases
[39:58] Speaker 16: to navigate through each individual new process correctly.
[40:01] Speaker 1: Sahir Jaggi, CEO of Forus, big day for you. Thank
[40:04] Speaker 1: you so much.
[40:05] Speaker 16: Thank you for having me.
[40:06] Speaker 3: Coming up, Apple is ready to unfold its next chapter
[40:10] Speaker 3: with the first foldable iPhone expected to debut tomorrow.
[40:15] Speaker 1: More on that next. This is Bloomberg Tech.
[40:29] Speaker 14: Thank you.
[40:33] Speaker 3: Apple is gearing up for one of its biggest product
[40:36] Speaker 3: launches in years. Tomorrow, the company is expected to unveil
[40:40] Speaker 3: its first foldable iPhone, a device that has been a
[40:43] Speaker 3: decade in the making and which could cost as much
[40:46] Speaker 3: as $ 2, 199. It also marks the biggest design change to
[40:52] Speaker 3: the iPhone in nearly 20 years. Bloomberg's Apple reporter Mark
[40:56] Speaker 3: Gurman joins us now. Mark, I wonder if you could
[40:58] Speaker 3: walk us through some of the history behind the design
[41:00] Speaker 3: of this new product.
[41:03] Speaker 17: Yeah, thank you for having me. This is a really
[41:05] Speaker 17: big deal for Apple. It's a really big deal for
[41:07] Speaker 17: the industry. Foldable phones have been around on the market
[41:10] Speaker 17: since around 2019 when Samsung launched the first Galaxy Fold.
[41:14] Speaker 11: But Apple's work on the product actually predates that.
[41:17] Speaker 17: About a decade ago, their core technology teams, these are
[41:20] Speaker 17: sort of research groups within the hardware team. at Apple
[41:23] Speaker 17: that looks at future technologies, started playing with foldable screens.
[41:27] Speaker 17: And the original idea was an iPad mini that could
[41:30] Speaker 17: unfold to be a larger iPad. But Tim Cook goes
[41:34] Speaker 17: to Asia around 2020, goes to China, goes to Korea.
[41:38] Speaker 17: He sees Huawei, he sees Samsung, he sees everyone using
[41:41] Speaker 17: these phones. And he comes back and enthusiastic, unusually so
[41:45] Speaker 17: I may add, about foldable phones and asks Apple, what's up?
[41:50] Speaker 17: Where's our foldable phone? And so they pivot from the
[41:53] Speaker 17: iPad to a foldable phone. And around 2023, they had
[41:55] Speaker 17: their aha moment. which was this short and wider design,
[42:02] Speaker 17: more interesting, better experience for watching video.
[42:05] Speaker 11: It's an aspect ratio known as 4 by 3.
[42:07] Speaker 17: It's basically the same aspect ratio you get with an
[42:11] Speaker 17: iPad in landscape mode versus traditional foldable phones had a
[42:15] Speaker 17: more squarish design.
[42:17] Speaker 11: And so now this is what.
[42:18] Speaker 17: Apple is going to introduce tomorrow on Wednesday at its
[42:21] Speaker 17: Surprise and Shine event in Cupertino. And we'll also see
[42:24] Speaker 17: new Apple Watches and likely new AirPods as well. So
[42:28] Speaker 17: this should be a pretty blockbuster introduction for new CEO
[42:31] Speaker 17: John Tarnas.
[42:32] Speaker 3: And are you anticipating high consumer demand for a product
[42:35] Speaker 3: like this given the broader market that you just outlined?
[42:39] Speaker 17: You know, Apple is probably going to make 7 to
[42:42] Speaker 17: 10 million units this year. And the expectation of essentially
[42:46] Speaker 17: everyone is they're going to be able to sell out
[42:48] Speaker 17: of every unit they can make. These are extremely complex
[42:50] Speaker 17: products to build and manufacture. The display technology is very advanced.
[42:55] Speaker 17: The hinge is very advanced. Getting the batteries and cameras
[42:58] Speaker 17: and everything in there is a very complex process. Much
[43:01] Speaker 17: more complicated than building your traditional slab or candy bar
[43:04] Speaker 17: form factor phone. which, by the way, there'll be new
[43:06] Speaker 17: ones of those as well with the 18 Pro and
[43:08] Speaker 17: 18 Pro Max. But in terms of what percentage of
[43:11] Speaker 17: all new iPhones will this phone be, it's going to
[43:14] Speaker 17: be slim. The foldable market is about 2% of the
[43:17] Speaker 17: United States at this point.
[43:19] Speaker 11: But in China, it's actually double that.
[43:22] Speaker 17: And so this is going to be a very important
[43:24] Speaker 17: phone for the Chinese market, which has obviously been a
[43:26] Speaker 17: little bit of a roller coaster.
[43:28] Speaker 11: For Apple right now, it's on a bit of a high,
[43:30] Speaker 11: which is a good thing.
[43:31] Speaker 17: And the hope for the company is that the foldable
[43:33] Speaker 17: will keep them there.
[43:34] Speaker 3: Bloomberg's Mark Gurman with all the latest. We're watching tomorrow
[43:38] Speaker 3: closely for the Apple event. And stay with Bloomberg Tech tomorrow.
[43:42] Speaker 3: Ed Ludlow returns live from Apple headquarters. He will be
[43:46] Speaker 3: joined by Carolina Milanese of Creative Strategies, Nabila Popal of IDC,
[43:52] Speaker 3: and more. That does it for this edition of Bloomberg Tech.
[43:56] Speaker 3: Don't forget to check out our podcast. You can find
[43:59] Speaker 3: it on the terminal as well as online on Apple, Spotify,
[44:02] Speaker 3: and iHeart.
[44:03] Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg.

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