# Alibaba Takes On Nvidia as the Global AI Race Heats Up

An episode of [Bloomberg Tech](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1611767434), 22 Sep 2026, 38 min.

Audio: https://podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/41764a4f-fc64-4e11-89ba-ae7c0030ab5e/b4e1baf4-247e-48d0-bf0e-b4cd01095d61/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=9caafc41-289c-4115-995d-ae7c0030ab75

Bloomberg’s Ed Ludlow breaks down Alibaba's new AI chip, an accelerator to compete with Nvidia and underpinning a massive expansion of data center capacity in coming years. Plus, he sits down with Gagan Biyani, Founder and CEO of the Horowitz Andreessen Academy - Silicon Valley's alternative college for the AI era. And he sits down with AI pioneer Fei-Fei Li to talk about the AI safety debate, the race against China, and growing competition to build world models. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:02] Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio, news.
[0:08] Speaker 2: This is Bloomberg Tech, and we've just been listening to U.S.
[0:10] Speaker 2: President Donald Trump, his address of the United Nations General Assembly,
[0:14] Speaker 2: where the latter part of that speech focused on artificial intelligence,
[0:18] Speaker 2: highly relevant to this show, Bloomberg Tech. He said that
[0:21] Speaker 2: the U.S. rejects attempts of a global scheme to control
[0:25] Speaker 2: AI and that in the future, all U.S. documents will
[0:28] Speaker 2: be will use, quote, superintelligence. He will encourage superintelligence, the
[0:32] Speaker 2: president said, not rein it in. In terms of what
[0:34] Speaker 2: markets are doing, looking at equities, looking at the treasury
[0:37] Speaker 2: market and also the dollar, not so many moves in
[0:41] Speaker 2: response to the content of the speech. We see equities
[0:44] Speaker 2: largely flat on the whole, some outperformance in technology, U.S.
[0:47] Speaker 2: 10-year yield at 4.95%, Bloomberg Dollar Spot Index 4%. Not
[0:54] Speaker 2: really moving on the content of what the president had
[0:56] Speaker 2: to say. Outside of artificial intelligence, a focus on Iran,
[1:01] Speaker 2: the events in Venezuela, commentary on Cuba, and a whole
[1:07] Speaker 2: lot more. Let's get out to Bloomberg's Tyler Kendall, who
[1:09] Speaker 2: is at the UN Rose Garden, to summarize what the
[1:11] Speaker 2: president had to say. Tyler.
[1:15] Speaker 3: Hey, Ed, well, at this point, President Trump really used
[1:18] Speaker 3: this speech to defend his foreign policy objectives, saying that
[1:21] Speaker 3: he has tackled, quote, intractable challenges. Early on, as you mentioned,
[1:25] Speaker 3: he highlighted Iran, threatening that we can either see escalation
[1:29] Speaker 3: or diplomacy in terms of what comes next.
[1:31] Speaker 2: He threatened that.
[1:32] Speaker 3: He has a decision-making To soon make, on one hand,
[1:34] Speaker 3: he can make a deal with Iran to allow the
[1:36] Speaker 3: country to rebuild, or on the other, he will, quote,
[1:39] Speaker 3: annihilate the Islamic Republic. Domestic and foreign policy really dovetailing
[1:43] Speaker 3: there as he claims that Iran is waiting until after
[1:46] Speaker 3: the midterm elections to strike a deal. For his part,
[1:48] Speaker 3: President Trump says that he is urging Iran to make
[1:51] Speaker 3: a deal. As we know, there has been growing frustration,
[1:54] Speaker 3: not just from the Trump administration, but also from the
[1:56] Speaker 3: regional Gulf allies that President Trump is set to meet
[1:59] Speaker 3: with later this year. This afternoon, the president did thank
[2:01] Speaker 3: the U.N. Security Council in passing a resolution to condemn
[2:05] Speaker 3: Iran when it comes to attacks on commercial shipping. He
[2:08] Speaker 3: also claimed that the U.S. is quickly adding to its stockpiles,
[2:11] Speaker 3: even as on Friday, Bloomberg News reported that the U.S.
[2:14] Speaker 3: is now alerting European allies that they could see delays
[2:17] Speaker 3: of up to five years in terms of getting supplies.
[2:19] Speaker 3: their weapons deliveries as the U.S. tries to rebuild and
[2:23] Speaker 3: revitalize the domestic industrial base. He then pivoted to talk
[2:26] Speaker 3: about the Western Hemisphere. We can go through some of
[2:28] Speaker 3: the headlines there. The interim president of Venezuela, Adelce Rodriguez,
[2:32] Speaker 3: was in that room. He also claimed that Cuba will
[2:37] Speaker 3: soon fail and said that Secretary of State Marco Rubio
[2:40] Speaker 3: is currently negotiating with the country. On Russia, he said
[2:43] Speaker 3: that he is going to potentially use that new tariff
[2:47] Speaker 3: authority to impose secondary tariffs on Russia if the Kremlin
[2:50] Speaker 3: does not come to the negotiating table. That was some
[2:53] Speaker 3: of the foreign policy headlines. But really at the end there, Ed,
[2:56] Speaker 3: as you know best, we got that update from President
[2:58] Speaker 3: Trump touting artificial intelligence, saying that he's now going to
[3:02] Speaker 3: call it superintelligence intelligence. and that whoever dominates the technology
[3:07] Speaker 3: will be the winner, appearing to set the stage for
[3:09] Speaker 3: that high-stakes meeting between him and Chinese President Xi Jinping
[3:13] Speaker 3: later this week.
[3:15] Speaker 2: Thank you very much. And it's on AI that we
[3:18] Speaker 2: will pick up and carry on this episode of Bloomberg Tech.
[3:21] Speaker 2: President Trump talking about artificial intelligence just moments ago at
[3:25] Speaker 2: UNGA and the ongoing AI race with China. Let's bring
[3:28] Speaker 2: in Nancy Tengler, CEO and CIO of Laffer Tengler Investments
[3:32] Speaker 2: to digest it all, which, you know, Nancy, I appreciate
[3:35] Speaker 2: is no hard task. Look, the president speaks very positively
[3:38] Speaker 2: about AI as a strength of America and as a
[3:40] Speaker 2: competitive tool against China. Your reaction to his remarks?
[3:44] Speaker 4: I mean, I do think they're important, Ed. Good to
[3:46] Speaker 4: be with you. He has taken a position. I actually
[3:50] Speaker 4: support that position because I don't think government has been
[3:53] Speaker 4: effective at regulating crypto, for example, or even go back
[3:57] Speaker 4: to internet days. So I think self-regulation from the company,
[4:01] Speaker 4: solutions around the problems allow us to continue to grow
[4:06] Speaker 4: and continue to see disinflationary growth in the U.S. economy,
[4:10] Speaker 4: not to mention potential defense applications et cetera, so I
[4:16] Speaker 4: thought it was a good comment for him to make,
[4:19] Speaker 4: and superintelligence may in fact catch.
[4:22] Speaker 2: We're going to talk about super intelligence just a second.
[4:24] Speaker 2: In terms of the bigger picture markets picture, Bloomberg writes
[4:28] Speaker 2: in its global rap that stocks and bonds wavered during
[4:31] Speaker 2: that speech. I would say there was little movement in
[4:33] Speaker 2: many asset classes. The main takeaway, though, being that there
[4:36] Speaker 2: was no sort of knee-jerk reaction to the idea that
[4:39] Speaker 2: the president is going to put America in a position
[4:43] Speaker 2: where he wants them to lead in AI. He's not
[4:45] Speaker 2: going to allow for a pullback.
[4:46] Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that's right. And I think he, I mean,
[4:50] Speaker 4: he said it before, but now he said it on
[4:52] Speaker 4: the global stage. So I think that's a comfort to
[4:55] Speaker 4: investors who are thinking about this as, you know, a
[4:59] Speaker 4: transitional economy, a technological revolution. He called it an industrial revolution,
[5:04] Speaker 4: whatever you want to call it. This technology is much
[5:08] Speaker 4: more powerful than the internet that we had in the 90s, obviously,
[5:11] Speaker 4: and also will change the way we live.
[5:13] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[5:14] Speaker 2: Nancy, this speech is a precursor to a meeting with
[5:17] Speaker 2: Chinese President Xi Jinping. As a technology investor in equity markets,
[5:22] Speaker 2: how much you braced for that moment and what comes
[5:24] Speaker 2: out of it?
[5:25] Speaker 4: I don't actually think much will come out of it.
[5:27] Speaker 4: We'll get the platitudes, Ed, but I don't think we'll
[5:31] Speaker 4: see China ever change their behavior. So the question becomes,
[5:35] Speaker 4: you know, over time, will we be able to ship
[5:38] Speaker 4: more NVIDIA chips? Will that be allowed? I think that's
[5:43] Speaker 4: the only thing I'm really paying attention to, but I
[5:45] Speaker 4: don't expect China to self-regulate.
[5:48] Speaker 2: Nancy, the story of the last 24 hours has been
[5:50] Speaker 2: AI agents, Meta, highest level since October, 11% jump. It
[5:55] Speaker 2: continues today because Muse, its AI agent, is number one
[6:00] Speaker 2: on the App Store free downloads for Apple. You've been
[6:02] Speaker 2: bearish on Meta in the past. Has anything changed for you?
[6:07] Speaker 5: It has.
[6:08] Speaker 4: You shamed me into buying it, Ed. It took me
[6:10] Speaker 4: a while. We recently added it to the portfolio. And
[6:14] Speaker 4: I think for a couple of reasons. First of all,
[6:16] Speaker 4: it's trading as a value stock. We think the growth,
[6:19] Speaker 4: revenue growth will compound at 20%. So on a relative
[6:22] Speaker 4: price to sales ratio basis, it's super attractive. And on
[6:26] Speaker 4: a price earnings to growth basis. You need a few
[6:28] Speaker 4: things to go right, but the advertising business is taking share.
[6:33] Speaker 5: And it is.
[6:33] Speaker 4: I mean, I've always said my knock has been it's
[6:35] Speaker 4: just an advertising company. But I think Muse changes the
[6:39] Speaker 4: calculus materially. And so we'll see. It is a way
[6:44] Speaker 4: for them finally to monetize the CapEx spend. And I
[6:47] Speaker 4: think that's very important. Then you've got MetaOne, which I
[6:50] Speaker 4: think is really interesting. And And I'll say this, Ed,
[6:54] Speaker 4: you know, SpaceX bought Cursor, as you well know. They
[6:58] Speaker 4: paid $ 60 billion for a company that employed 20 people
[7:02] Speaker 4: and was four years old. So when you think about
[7:04] Speaker 4: the power of these technologies to allow you to leverage
[7:07] Speaker 4: innovation and talent with few employees, I think that's one
[7:11] Speaker 4: of the things that Meta is going to be contributing
[7:13] Speaker 4: to with MetaOne and some.
[7:15] Speaker 2: Of the other applications.
[7:15] Speaker 3: Understood.
[7:17] Speaker 2: The sell side is saying this is not just the
[7:18] Speaker 2: moment of the AI agent, the chat GBT moment, but
[7:20] Speaker 2: it justifies Meta's spend as well. That's kind of their conclusion.
[7:24] Speaker 2: Nancy Tengler, CEO and CIO of Lafitenga Investments. Thank you
[7:27] Speaker 2: very much indeed. Now coming up, world leaders are gathering
[7:31] Speaker 2: at the UN General Assembly and we'll be joined by
[7:33] Speaker 2: Irish Foreign Minister Helen McKenty. That's next. This is Bloomberg Tech.
[7:48] Speaker 2: Our future will be shaped by how we address four
[7:51] Speaker 2: great tests of power. The power over war and peace.
[7:57] Speaker 2: The power that concentrates wealth and drives inequality. The power
[8:02] Speaker 2: fueling climate chaos and war on nature. and the power
[8:07] Speaker 2: unleashed by artificial intelligence. That was UN Secretary General Antonio
[8:13] Speaker 2: Guterres earlier this morning, showing that AI is taking center
[8:16] Speaker 2: stage at the United Nations. Anthropic CEO Dario Amadei and
[8:21] Speaker 2: OpenAI's Sam Altman are set to brief the Security Council Wednesday.
[8:24] Speaker 2: On the future of the technology amid growing calls for
[8:27] Speaker 2: global coordination on AI safety, it comes as President Trump
[8:31] Speaker 2: prepares to meet China's Xi Jinping Thursday with AI expected
[8:35] Speaker 2: to be a part of the conversation. Bloomberg's Mike Shepard
[8:38] Speaker 2: joins us now from Washington, D.C. The briefing of the
[8:41] Speaker 2: leaders of the frontier labs to the Security Council. What
[8:44] Speaker 2: do we know?
[8:46] Speaker 6: Well, Ed, you know, this is not going to be
[8:48] Speaker 6: a moment where we get a big reveal from either
[8:51] Speaker 6: Dario Amadei or Sam Altman. And it's important to note
[8:54] Speaker 6: that Hugging Face CEO Clem DeLong is scheduled to be
[8:58] Speaker 6: speaking there, too. We're not expecting them to say anything
[9:02] Speaker 6: dramatically new in terms of revelations about breaches or risks.
[9:06] Speaker 6: We've heard so much from each of them over the
[9:09] Speaker 6: past several weeks. What is interesting, though, is the context.
[9:13] Speaker 2: They will be.
[9:13] Speaker 6: Briefing representatives from some of the most powerful countries on Earth,
[9:17] Speaker 6: including at the same time in the same room, the
[9:20] Speaker 6: leaders of the two nations that are responsible for all
[9:24] Speaker 6: of the cutting edge AI development these days, and that
[9:27] Speaker 6: is the United States and China. And those two countries
[9:30] Speaker 6: really are locked in competition to try to dominate this technology.
[9:34] Speaker 6: And we have heard the contrast between President Donald Trump
[9:37] Speaker 6: rejecting calls for global coordination and And the U.N. Secretary
[9:41] Speaker 6: General in his valedictory address to the world body today
[9:45] Speaker 6: after 10 years in the job, 10 years where he
[9:47] Speaker 6: has talked about artificial intelligence, warning that there, yes, needs
[9:51] Speaker 6: to be some global oversight. Yes, there needs to be
[9:53] Speaker 6: coordination among nations and that there is this risk that
[9:57] Speaker 6: AI is helping to fuel a shift. of power to
[10:00] Speaker 6: private corporations and wealthy individuals away from governments and removing
[10:05] Speaker 6: from people the agency over their own lives.
[10:09] Speaker 2: Sheb, let's revisit our conversation from yesterday. The big moment
[10:12] Speaker 2: this week will be President Trump with China's Xi Jinping.
[10:16] Speaker 2: We said earlier in the program, AI is going to
[10:18] Speaker 2: be on the table. Do we know anything about the
[10:21] Speaker 2: parameters of that AI conversation?
[10:24] Speaker 6: Well, you know, the representatives from the two countries did
[10:28] Speaker 6: meet yesterday in New York for further discussions. Scott Besson
[10:32] Speaker 6: and his counterpart talked some more. We did not get
[10:35] Speaker 6: a great deal of additional visibility on what the two
[10:39] Speaker 6: countries actually went through. And if they had agreed on anything,
[10:43] Speaker 6: we did hear Sunday from Scott Besson saying that, look,
[10:46] Speaker 6: We have set up the framework for an AI dialogue
[10:49] Speaker 6: between the U.S. and China where there could be discussions
[10:52] Speaker 6: about risks and benefits of the technology. Not too many
[10:55] Speaker 6: more details there, Ed. And also some sort of a
[10:57] Speaker 6: notification system about risks. Again, it's unclear what we are
[11:02] Speaker 6: going to get later in the week when the two
[11:04] Speaker 6: sides emerge and actually present their deliverables. Will there be
[11:08] Speaker 6: some sort of a formal setup that allows the two
[11:11] Speaker 6: countries to really.
[11:12] Speaker 2: Speak to each other?
[11:13] Speaker 6: In rational terms, and in terms that could lead to
[11:17] Speaker 6: some productive engagement, even as they are competing very bitterly
[11:21] Speaker 6: over this technology.
[11:22] Speaker 1: We just don't know.
[11:23] Speaker 6: But we are reporting it out. We are trying to
[11:25] Speaker 6: figure out also who will be there. We do know
[11:28] Speaker 6: that there will be a number of U.S. executives, high-profile
[11:31] Speaker 6: names from Silicon Valley present, but we don't know whether
[11:34] Speaker 6: there will be a complementary delegation of Chinese executives also
[11:38] Speaker 6: set to show up. That will be an interesting thing
[11:41] Speaker 6: for us to watch as And look, Ed, there is
[11:44] Speaker 6: a lot at stake here. And yet at the same time,
[11:47] Speaker 6: we are not expecting big advances. We heard Nancy Tengler
[11:50] Speaker 6: say that her expectations for some breakthrough, some grand bargain
[11:53] Speaker 6: on AI are very low. And that is our sense, too,
[11:57] Speaker 6: from the reporting we have done.
[11:59] Speaker 2: There is basically an effort by private industry to move
[12:03] Speaker 2: towards a global standard, to move towards rules regulation. Is
[12:06] Speaker 2: it even possible right now, Mike, to summarize what this
[12:09] Speaker 2: Trump administration's policy is on pacing the frontier of AI?
[12:15] Speaker 6: Well, you know, the president himself really spelled it out
[12:18] Speaker 6: pretty clearly in his speech. He wants to encourage the
[12:21] Speaker 6: development of this technology, not rein it in.
[12:24] Speaker 2: He sees existing U.S.
[12:25] Speaker 6: Laws as sufficient to handle any sort of risk. They
[12:29] Speaker 6: have talked about using liability protections baked into the U.S.
[12:34] Speaker 6: code as a way of reining in companies from outpacing
[12:38] Speaker 6: the capabilities of their technology and putting users first.
[12:42] Speaker 1: And even nation states at risk.
[12:44] Speaker 6: Now, that does fly in the face of what we
[12:47] Speaker 6: have been hearing from Dario Amadei, Sam Allman and others
[12:50] Speaker 6: in the industry who say, yes, we do need some
[12:53] Speaker 6: sort of framework. We need to be able to vet
[12:55] Speaker 6: these models more clearly. And yes, government does have a role.
[12:59] Speaker 6: But the administration for now is not really interested, at
[13:02] Speaker 6: least from the president's perspective. in having that kind of conversation.
[13:05] Speaker 6: They want to hit the gas as much as possible.
[13:08] Speaker 1: They have a lot at stake.
[13:09] Speaker 6: AI is central to the administration's economic agenda right now, Ed.
[13:14] Speaker 6: And you heard the president also when talking about existential risks,
[13:18] Speaker 6: he regards them as a hoax. And he doesn't see
[13:22] Speaker 6: the same need for guardrails that members of the industry
[13:24] Speaker 6: and certainly people in Congress and in government here across
[13:28] Speaker 6: the U.S. and around the world have identified as necessary.
[13:32] Speaker 2: Bloomberg's Mike Shepard with the roundup of everything happening with
[13:35] Speaker 2: this administration AI this week. Thank you very much indeed.
[13:38] Speaker 2: We have so much more coming up in the program
[13:40] Speaker 2: after the break. This is Bloomberg Tech. I just broke
[13:56] Speaker 2: some news on the Bloomberg. GrokBot, the AI agent that
[14:00] Speaker 2: SpaceX AI put out in August, topped 400,000 weekly users recently.
[14:05] Speaker 2: That data effective September 14th, 418,000 users of the AI agent.
[14:11] Speaker 2: which represents a 24% week-on-week jump. Interesting because they released
[14:16] Speaker 2: Bot back on August 11th, right? There's been so much
[14:18] Speaker 2: focus in the last 24 hours on this being the
[14:21] Speaker 2: moment of AI agents, particularly around Muse. Muse is a
[14:24] Speaker 2: consumer-focused product from Meta. Grok Bot, a much more enterprise-focused product,
[14:29] Speaker 2: but it shows some pretty modest momentum for SpaceX AI,
[14:34] Speaker 2: the AI unit of SpaceX. Shares kind of went back
[14:37] Speaker 2: towards session highs after we put that report out. Check
[14:39] Speaker 2: it out on the Terminal. And on Bloomberg.com, the stock
[14:42] Speaker 2: up 1.5%. Elsewhere in AI, Alibaba is stepping up its
[14:46] Speaker 2: AI ambitions, unveiling what it calls China's most powerful AI
[14:50] Speaker 2: chip built to take on NVIDIA. It's just one piece
[14:53] Speaker 2: of a much bigger push with more than $ 53 billion
[14:56] Speaker 2: committed to AI and plans for a massive expansion in
[14:59] Speaker 2: computing capacity. Bloomberg's Peter Elstrom joins us now. This is
[15:03] Speaker 2: really interesting because it was just three, four months ago
[15:05] Speaker 2: they put out their last generation chip. This one is
[15:08] Speaker 2: three times better. Tell us about it.
[15:11] Speaker 7: Yeah, this was a big day at Alibaba headquarters in Hangzhou.
[15:14] Speaker 7: They talked about their ambitions in AI on a few
[15:17] Speaker 7: different fronts. First of all, the AI accelerator. They see
[15:20] Speaker 7: this as an opportunity to compete, not just with NVIDIA,
[15:23] Speaker 7: of course, which is the market leader, but also in
[15:25] Speaker 7: the domestic market.
[15:26] Speaker 1: Huawei has really been ahead here.
[15:28] Speaker 7: Canberra Corn has been sort of considered the next best alternative.
[15:32] Speaker 1: And Alibaba wants to be in that mix.
[15:34] Speaker 7: They want to be talked about as one of the
[15:35] Speaker 7: leading designers of these AI accelerators. They hope that they're
[15:38] Speaker 7: going to be able to use that to push ahead
[15:41] Speaker 7: with their broader ambitions. They also talked about putting together
[15:45] Speaker 7: over the long term an LLM with Alibaba. five to
[15:48] Speaker 7: 10 trillion parameters really aiming at the frontier models that.
[15:52] Speaker 1: Are out there.
[15:52] Speaker 7: And we have, you know, we've seen deep seek and
[15:56] Speaker 7: moonshot in China come out as the leaders in the industry.
[15:59] Speaker 7: Alibaba has been a little bit overshadowed by these smaller
[16:03] Speaker 7: upstarts in recent weeks and months, but they want to
[16:06] Speaker 7: push ahead. And the CEO, Eddie Wu, did the presentation today,
[16:11] Speaker 7: has said that his primary objective now is going to
[16:13] Speaker 7: be AGI, Artificial General Intelligence. They're also trying to invest
[16:18] Speaker 7: a lot of money in capital. They don't have the
[16:20] Speaker 7: same kind of money that the Western companies do, but
[16:23] Speaker 7: they're planning on investing in 20 gigawatts of compute to.
[16:28] Speaker 1: Be able to push ahead and compete in that area too.
[16:31] Speaker 2: Just really quick, Genwoo V900 is an accelerator for training
[16:36] Speaker 2: at the frontier. Training, just very quickly, that's the use case?
[16:40] Speaker 1: Yeah, training at this point, that's their goal.
[16:42] Speaker 7: Huawei has tried to push ahead into this area, too.
[16:46] Speaker 7: The Chinese companies, of course, would like to have more
[16:49] Speaker 7: access to the NVIDIA chips that are really the cutting
[16:51] Speaker 7: edge here. But Alibaba wants to be able to offer
[16:54] Speaker 7: these chips that could do training the same way that
[16:56] Speaker 7: Huawei is aspiring to do that, too.
[16:58] Speaker 2: Bloomberg's Peter Elstrom. Thank you very much indeed. Coming up,
[17:01] Speaker 2: Silicon Valley's rethinking college for the AI era. The launch
[17:05] Speaker 2: of the new Horowitz Andreessen founder, CEO Gargambiani, joins us next.
[17:09] Speaker 2: This is Bloomberg.
[17:10] Speaker 6: Thank you.
[17:18] Speaker 2: Welcome back to Bloomberg Tech. This is what financial markets
[17:21] Speaker 2: look like. A lot of this relates to oil and
[17:23] Speaker 2: whether or not there will be some progress in the
[17:26] Speaker 2: Middle East and the Gulf, particularly the Straits of Hormuz.
[17:28] Speaker 2: But right now, the S & P 500 flat. Technology
[17:31] Speaker 2: is outperforming a lot of that in the last 24 hours.
[17:35] Speaker 2: There's been this discussion about this being the AI agent moment.
[17:38] Speaker 2: Muse being the case study. We just broke that news
[17:41] Speaker 2: on SpaceX AI's Grok bot also getting some traction. Bloomberg
[17:46] Speaker 2: US dollar spot indexed. not really moving as the president
[17:49] Speaker 2: of the United States talked about his commitment to AI,
[17:53] Speaker 2: super intelligence, and how there is a global scheme against AI,
[17:57] Speaker 2: which the US will not participate in. We'll revisit that
[18:00] Speaker 2: later in the program. As AI reshapes the workplace, Silicon
[18:03] Speaker 2: Valley's rethinking college, the new Horowitz Andreessen Academy is launching
[18:08] Speaker 2: an AI-focused alternative backed by $ 42 million and some of
[18:12] Speaker 2: tech's biggest names, including OpenAI, Anthropic, and NVIDIA. Founder and
[18:17] Speaker 2: CEO Gagan Biani joins us now. What is this? This
[18:20] Speaker 2: is an academy. This is alternative education for the AI age.
[18:23] Speaker 2: What are we talking about?
[18:24] Speaker 5: Yeah, it's a new school built for the most ambitious
[18:28] Speaker 5: young high school graduates. And our goal is to train
[18:31] Speaker 5: them for the new era.
[18:33] Speaker 2: What age are we talking about here?
[18:35] Speaker 5: Typically 16 to 20. They have to have a high
[18:39] Speaker 5: school diploma in order to apply, and they can be
[18:42] Speaker 5: one or two years into college.
[18:43] Speaker 2: And so let's get into the skills that we're talking
[18:45] Speaker 2: about here, right? Actually, there is no standard path anymore.
[18:49] Speaker 2: But let's say once upon a time, you might have
[18:51] Speaker 2: gone to Stanford, done computer science, and then dropped out.
[18:56] Speaker 2: Are we talking about competence in coding, computer science still
[18:59] Speaker 2: as the pathway? Or this is literally just being fluent
[19:03] Speaker 2: in AI, the tools themselves?
[19:06] Speaker 5: Yeah, I think at this point, the specific majors are
[19:10] Speaker 5: less relevant than the overall skill of building. So the
[19:13] Speaker 5: mentality that, you know, we talk to hiring partners every
[19:17] Speaker 5: day and ask them, who are the employees that you
[19:20] Speaker 5: want to bring on? Who are the young people that
[19:22] Speaker 5: are most successful? And they have a few key skills. One,
[19:26] Speaker 5: they're AI native builders. So they understand how to use
[19:28] Speaker 5: the technology, whether that's building software, products, or hardware. They
[19:32] Speaker 5: know how to use the technology to build things. The
[19:35] Speaker 5: second thing is they have people skills. And then third
[19:37] Speaker 5: is they have to have ambition. And so our goal
[19:41] Speaker 5: is to train people on those three main skills.
[19:43] Speaker 2: We said that the Frontier Labs and NVIDIA are some
[19:46] Speaker 2: of the big backers from a financial perspective, but it's
[19:48] Speaker 2: called the Horowitz Andreessen Academy. Talk a little bit about
[19:51] Speaker 2: Ben and Mark's involvement and how this came about.
[19:54] Speaker 5: Yeah, they've had an internal effort to rethink higher education
[19:59] Speaker 5: for a long time.
[20:00] Speaker 2: At their venture capital firm, Andreessen Horowitz.
[20:03] Speaker 5: At Andreessen Horowitz. But it's only recently that they felt
[20:08] Speaker 5: that it was time to actually get in the ring
[20:10] Speaker 5: and provide an alternative. And so what we're doing now
[20:13] Speaker 5: with the Horowitz Andreessen Academy is we raised $ 42 million,
[20:15] Speaker 5: a significant portion of which is from the firm. Mark
[20:25] Speaker 5: Andreessen is joining the board along with Eric Torenberg, who's
[20:28] Speaker 5: a general partner.
[20:28] Speaker 2: That's right.
[20:29] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[20:29] Speaker 2: How is that going to work? So you raise the
[20:31] Speaker 2: money to get yourself set up, right? That's right. You know,
[20:34] Speaker 2: if you are a candidate to join this college, A,
[20:37] Speaker 2: when are you guys going to get set up and
[20:39] Speaker 2: start your first semester?
[20:39] Speaker 5: Well, applications are open today for our founding class fellowship,
[20:43] Speaker 5: which is a one-year tuition-free program. It's a scholarship format.
[20:48] Speaker 5: It's a school, and the first program starts in September
[20:51] Speaker 5: of next year.
[20:53] Speaker 2: Quick question. Why Horowitz Andreessen and not Andreessen Horowitz?
[20:56] Speaker 5: Well, it's not an extension of the venture firm. It's
[20:59] Speaker 5: a separate company, and so we had to make it
[21:01] Speaker 5: clear by flipping the name. We also, though, wanted to
[21:04] Speaker 5: make it clear that it has close ties to the
[21:06] Speaker 5: venture firm because one of the main things we're trying
[21:08] Speaker 5: to do is build a network. Most students go to
[21:11] Speaker 5: school in order to get a network of peers, hiring managers,
[21:16] Speaker 5: and advisors who can help with whatever they want to
[21:19] Speaker 5: do in their career. And Horowitz Andreessen Academy indicates that
[21:23] Speaker 5: this is going to be one of the most premier
[21:25] Speaker 5: networks that any student can possibly get access to.
[21:27] Speaker 2: They're kind of solving for the talent pipeline, you know,
[21:30] Speaker 2: ensuring a talent pipeline in some ways.
[21:32] Speaker 8: Yeah.
[21:33] Speaker 5: I think that A16Z' s portfolio has like 850 companies with
[21:38] Speaker 5: 18,000 roles available right now. We need to train people
[21:42] Speaker 5: to be more effective and to be able to join
[21:45] Speaker 5: these companies and succeed in the new era.
[21:47] Speaker 2: You did mention the closeness to the firm. And, you know,
[21:50] Speaker 2: Marc Andreessen and Ben Horowitz know what they're doing, right?
[21:53] Speaker 2: They're identifying talent as part of their thing. How much
[21:56] Speaker 2: of this is an element of it being an incubator, right?
[21:59] Speaker 2: If you think about the... academic institutions in the bay
[22:02] Speaker 2: area loads of startups have been born directly out of
[22:05] Speaker 2: them so is that the idea is there anything codified
[22:08] Speaker 2: if if somebody brilliant starts a company while at the
[22:11] Speaker 2: academy then what happens who gets a piece of.
[22:14] Speaker 5: It yeah we're we're absolutely going to help um you
[22:18] Speaker 5: know students at the academy get funding if they want
[22:20] Speaker 5: to but we also believe that some of the most
[22:23] Speaker 5: ambitious young people are going to go and join companies
[22:26] Speaker 5: not everybody is going to start a company at 18
[22:29] Speaker 5: or 20. And so the idea is to provide something
[22:32] Speaker 5: that gives both options to students. And certainly I hope
[22:37] Speaker 5: we fund some of the companies that come out of it.
[22:39] Speaker 2: What I find really interesting about this is who's going
[22:41] Speaker 2: to be teaching? You know, lots of regulars on this program,
[22:45] Speaker 2: they might be founders themselves or venture capitalists. And it's
[22:48] Speaker 2: not that surprising if you see on their calendar a
[22:50] Speaker 2: Thursday night class at Stanford. That happens quite often. So
[22:53] Speaker 2: who is it that you want to bring in? to
[22:56] Speaker 2: give exposure to these brilliant young people you hope will
[23:00] Speaker 2: go through the system?
[23:01] Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, first, let's be clear. The most important
[23:04] Speaker 5: thing about the education at the academy is pursuits. So
[23:08] Speaker 5: we expect 80 plus percent of the time of students
[23:12] Speaker 5: to be spent on their own pursuits, doing things like
[23:15] Speaker 5: deep research, learning a new skill, starting a company or
[23:19] Speaker 5: building a project. That's the core educational philosophy. Around that,
[23:24] Speaker 5: we've recruited some of the most seasoned and experienced operators
[23:27] Speaker 5: on the planet to come in and offer classes on
[23:30] Speaker 5: subjects like AI inference engineering or uh, building and scaling
[23:34] Speaker 5: AI applications or even things like product sense or finding love.
[23:40] Speaker 2: Uh, the idea is finding love. Yeah.
[23:42] Speaker 5: I mean, we believe interpersonal skills and life skills are
[23:44] Speaker 5: a critical part.
[23:45] Speaker 2: Of that would be my question, right? Like I went
[23:46] Speaker 2: to college, I went to law school, I played sports, uh,
[23:50] Speaker 2: some of my most formative years weren't necessarily spent studying.
[23:53] Speaker 2: I did study, but how do you get that element
[23:55] Speaker 2: of it? If it's an alternative to college, the non-academic
[23:59] Speaker 2: parts as important to many people.
[24:01] Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely.
[24:02] Speaker 5: Social life really matters. And that's why our goal is
[24:05] Speaker 5: to open up San Francisco to these students.
[24:07] Speaker 3: Right.
[24:07] Speaker 5: This academy is based in the heart of San Francisco.
[24:10] Speaker 1: It's going to be.
[24:11] Speaker 5: And as you and I both know, this city has
[24:14] Speaker 5: so much to offer from arts to culture.
[24:17] Speaker 2: Was it ever a debate whether it would be in
[24:19] Speaker 2: San Francisco or not?
[24:21] Speaker 5: No, that was something firm from day one that we're
[24:24] Speaker 5: in right now.
[24:25] Speaker 2: That's right.
[24:26] Speaker 5: San Francisco is the center of innovation. It's the center
[24:29] Speaker 5: of business. It's and it's now becoming the center of
[24:32] Speaker 5: culture for a lot of things. And so, I mean,
[24:36] Speaker 5: it's San Francisco or nowhere.
[24:38] Speaker 2: Gagan Biani, Horowitz Andreessen Academy CEO. Come back, you know,
[24:43] Speaker 2: once semester's underway and let us know how it's going.
[24:45] Speaker 2: Thank you very much indeed.
[24:46] Speaker 5: I'll be here. Thank you, Ed.
[24:48] Speaker 2: An update to a Bloomberg report from yesterday. Investors are
[24:51] Speaker 2: piling into SoftBank's massive junk bond sale. It's already drawn
[24:54] Speaker 2: more than $ 20 billion in early demand. SoftBank looks to
[24:58] Speaker 2: raise more than $ 11 billion to help fund its open
[25:01] Speaker 2: AI bet. Remember, $ 10 billion dollar denominated, 1 billion euros denominated,
[25:06] Speaker 2: expected to price up. this Thursday. Coming up, AI pioneer
[25:11] Speaker 2: Fei-Fei Li joins us to talk about the AI safety debate,
[25:14] Speaker 2: the race with China, growing competition, but world models. What
[25:18] Speaker 2: is happening in world models? That conversation next. This is
[25:22] Speaker 2: Bloomberg Tech.
[25:35] Speaker 8: The United States also totally rejects any attempt to construct
[25:39] Speaker 8: a globalist scheme to control for the artificial intelligence being
[25:44] Speaker 8: spoken of so much now, here and after officially called superintelligence.
[25:53] Speaker 2: That was President Trump earlier this hour talking about super
[25:56] Speaker 2: intelligence as AI safety and development are among the top
[25:59] Speaker 2: issues at this year's UN General Assembly. And it's expected
[26:03] Speaker 2: to be front and center when President Trump and China's
[26:05] Speaker 2: President Xi meet later this week, even as leaders in industry.
[26:09] Speaker 2: form their own approaches. We're joined now by Fei-Fei Li,
[26:12] Speaker 2: a pioneer in artificial intelligence, has been called the godmother
[26:16] Speaker 2: of AI, someone who has long advocated for a human-centric
[26:20] Speaker 2: approach to developing the technology. She is the co-founder and
[26:24] Speaker 2: CEO of World Labs and an AI researcher and professor
[26:27] Speaker 2: at Stanford University. It's great to have you back on
[26:30] Speaker 2: the program.
[26:31] Speaker 9: Great to be here, Ed.
[26:32] Speaker 2: Let's start with the idea of a world model distinct
[26:35] Speaker 2: from an LLM. I appreciate you and I have discussed
[26:37] Speaker 2: this already. But for our audience, that distinction is important.
[26:40] Speaker 2: The basic definition.
[26:42] Speaker 4: Yes.
[26:42] Speaker 9: I'm very excited by world models because if you look
[26:45] Speaker 9: at language models, what they output are words. Words can
[26:49] Speaker 9: be turned into codes. Words can be turned into conversations.
[26:53] Speaker 9: But world models, the ones that World Labs has been developing,
[26:58] Speaker 9: what we generate are not words. The models generate beautiful pixels,
[27:03] Speaker 9: very accurate geometric structure of the 3D or 4D world.
[27:08] Speaker 9: and which in turn can allow people, creators, designers, robotics developers,
[27:14] Speaker 9: to have precise control of the cameras or the construction
[27:18] Speaker 9: of worlds.
[27:20] Speaker 2: Your latest generation of world model that you've been working
[27:22] Speaker 2: on at World Labs is Atlas.
[27:24] Speaker 8: Yes.
[27:24] Speaker 2: You haven't said very much about Atlas.
[27:26] Speaker 9: We just shared a technical blog about Atlas, and we
[27:31] Speaker 9: are working really hard to release Atlas as a product
[27:35] Speaker 9: to the world. And it is the latest, the greatest
[27:39] Speaker 9: world model that World Apps has developed. It's the first
[27:42] Speaker 9: of its kind in the ability to allow camera control,
[27:47] Speaker 9: allow that kind of precise tracking, pixel consistence with the
[27:53] Speaker 9: real world, with the 3D world. It also tries to
[27:57] Speaker 9: solve a very hard problem in the field of computer
[27:59] Speaker 9: vision that combines the generation of beautiful pixels with the
[28:04] Speaker 9: reconstruction of intricate 3D structure.
[28:07] Speaker 2: Does it solve for it?
[28:08] Speaker 6: It does.
[28:09] Speaker 2: How good is the underlying model?
[28:10] Speaker 9: It's better than any state-of-the-art specialized model for these tasks.
[28:16] Speaker 2: There is the underlying model atlas and you mentioned product.
[28:19] Speaker 2: What is the killer use case? application for deployment in
[28:23] Speaker 2: the real world?
[28:24] Speaker 9: As many foundation models, these use cases are pretty horizontal.
[28:29] Speaker 9: We are already engaging with users from creative industry, with
[28:34] Speaker 9: design industry, with robotics industry, such as healthcare lab development,
[28:40] Speaker 9: pharmaceutical laboratories. So it is pretty horizontal. But one thing
[28:47] Speaker 9: that really excites me is By allowing this kind of
[28:51] Speaker 9: control for humans, creators can use this as an augmentative
[28:57] Speaker 9: tool to really express their creativity or develop downstream technology
[29:05] Speaker 9: for their use cases.
[29:06] Speaker 2: From a commercial perspective, World Labs has been focused on robotics, right?
[29:09] Speaker 2: You acquired us. Scenics. Explain the use of a world
[29:15] Speaker 2: model in the development of physical AI, the deployment of
[29:18] Speaker 2: robots in real human-centric settings.
[29:22] Speaker 3: Yes.
[29:22] Speaker 9: First of all, World Labs is a spatial intelligence company.
[29:26] Speaker 9: A world model is very much useful for spatial intelligence
[29:29] Speaker 9: applications from design creativity to robotics, and also which includes
[29:35] Speaker 9: healthcare education. What is important for robotics is the ability
[29:41] Speaker 9: to understand and construct the world that you can in
[29:46] Speaker 9: turn train and evaluate people. your robotics tasks or policies,
[29:51] Speaker 9: there's a lot of still bottleneck in terms of creating
[29:56] Speaker 9: the right training environment or evaluation environment. A robust world
[30:01] Speaker 9: model can help unlock some of this bottleneck. And for example,
[30:07] Speaker 9: for laboratory sciences, when you want to empower a robot
[30:11] Speaker 9: to do pharmaceutical manufacturing or lab science, you don't get
[30:17] Speaker 9: that much data, right? These are very highly specialized industries.
[30:22] Speaker 9: But using world models to simulate and then turn that
[30:26] Speaker 9: simulation into very realistic training ground as well as evaluation
[30:31] Speaker 9: ground helps to develop robots.
[30:33] Speaker 2: We're talking about the physical world in many cases. And
[30:38] Speaker 2: the issue that your industry is confronting right now is alignment,
[30:42] Speaker 2: in LLMs in particular, does the model behave as humans
[30:45] Speaker 2: intended it to? Is that the same calculus for a
[30:50] Speaker 2: world model? Is there a risk that the world model
[30:53] Speaker 2: misbehaves in the same way that we have seen LLMs misbehave?
[30:57] Speaker 9: I think it's the same calculus for all technology. I've
[31:01] Speaker 9: always been saying technology is a double-edged sword. We develop
[31:05] Speaker 9: it with the intention to be benevolent and helpful to humans,
[31:09] Speaker 9: but we have always to put safety and responsibility in
[31:14] Speaker 9: the forefront. of the development and deployment of technology. So
[31:18] Speaker 9: from that point of view, whether we're talking about LLMs,
[31:22] Speaker 9: we're talking about world models, or we're talking about classic
[31:26] Speaker 9: technology like electricity, steam engine, modern transportation, all of this,
[31:31] Speaker 9: we do have to.
[31:34] Speaker 2: Hold both truths.
[31:35] Speaker 9: In the hand. One is human safety, human benevolence. The
[31:39] Speaker 9: other one is use this for incredible helpful, incredible advances
[31:46] Speaker 9: of the technology to help humans and develop our civilization.
[31:51] Speaker 2: Your industry colleagues and peers at the frontier say we
[31:55] Speaker 2: should pace development at the frontier, the most capable models,
[31:58] Speaker 2: in part because safety and alignment has not kept pace
[32:02] Speaker 2: with the improvement in capability. How have you seen that
[32:06] Speaker 2: through your work in world models? And, you know, the
[32:09] Speaker 2: argument that, for example, a Dario Amodei would make is
[32:12] Speaker 2: that would only work if everyone agrees to do the
[32:15] Speaker 2: same thing. It's in part why they ask for antitrust waivers, right,
[32:18] Speaker 2: so that they can work collaboratively with the other labs.
[32:24] Speaker 9: So look, AI is a civilizational technology and with this
[32:28] Speaker 9: level of impact it can make for human society, I
[32:33] Speaker 9: believe responsibility is so important. We cannot leave it to fatalism.
[32:38] Speaker 9: One thing that is always important for me is that
[32:42] Speaker 9: not only I'm a CEO of World Labs and an entrepreneur,
[32:46] Speaker 9: my entire career I've been a scientist and an educator.
[32:49] Speaker 9: And I want to apply the same kind of sense
[32:53] Speaker 9: of responsibility of a scientist and educator to the development
[32:57] Speaker 9: of world models or any technology we develop. So it's
[33:02] Speaker 9: easy to use simple words, but really this is very nuanced.
[33:07] Speaker 9: We need to understand and keep this technology continue to
[33:13] Speaker 9: develop this technology in a robust ecosystem where there is
[33:17] Speaker 9: public sector, there is open source, there is closed source,
[33:20] Speaker 9: there is collaboration with academia, with government, with civil society.
[33:26] Speaker 9: It is very, very important that we come together as
[33:30] Speaker 9: an ecosystem and do this right.
[33:32] Speaker 3: Dr.
[33:32] Speaker 2: Li, what is your true assessment of the existential threat
[33:37] Speaker 2: to human life from AI? Your colleague Andrew Ng was
[33:40] Speaker 2: on the show last week and he said, this is ridiculous.
[33:43] Speaker 2: It's near zero in his mind because he reflected back
[33:46] Speaker 2: when GPT-2 came out and said we had those concerns then.
[33:50] Speaker 2: Look at the development path since.
[33:54] Speaker 9: I think as an educator and a scientist, any threat
[33:59] Speaker 9: to human society, including existential, is within ourselves, is that
[34:05] Speaker 9: how we humans wield the power of technology, how we
[34:10] Speaker 9: humans collectively work together and govern it, and how we
[34:15] Speaker 9: humans use these powerful tools to make our lives better.
[34:19] Speaker 2: Are we humans in control of that?
[34:23] Speaker 9: We must be in control. I've been advocating for years
[34:27] Speaker 9: that AI, it's not about AI, it's about humans. It's
[34:32] Speaker 9: about our shared, as well as individual dignity, agency, as
[34:37] Speaker 9: well as our responsibility. And the goal of our civilization
[34:42] Speaker 9: is to create a better society for our future generations.
[34:47] Speaker 9: And whether the tool is electricity or AI, we must
[34:51] Speaker 9: use it right.
[34:52] Speaker 2: Can we bring this back to world models to end?
[34:54] Speaker 2: I think I'm right in saying you believe that there
[34:57] Speaker 2: isn't right now a sufficient benchmarking for world models to
[35:02] Speaker 2: assess lots of the things that we're talking about. Who
[35:05] Speaker 2: should be responsible for sort of setting that benchmark.
[35:08] Speaker 9: That's a great question obviously as scientists and engineers within
[35:13] Speaker 9: world labs we do a lot of internal technical benchmark
[35:16] Speaker 9: our benchmark cares about safety our benchmark cares about the
[35:20] Speaker 9: model capability but the bigger picture is that this problem
[35:25] Speaker 9: this question of evaluation and benchmarking should be a ecosystem
[35:31] Speaker 9: level responsibility is there.
[35:33] Speaker 2: A format for that to your mind I've been.
[35:36] Speaker 9: For years advocating for public sector participation in this technology.
[35:40] Speaker 9: I understand industry.
[35:41] Speaker 2: Through a regulatory body or just through a.
[35:44] Speaker 9: … Through all of the above. Look, I co-founded Stanford
[35:47] Speaker 9: Human Center AI Institute. Before ChatGPT was released, we formed
[35:52] Speaker 9: a center called Language Model Research Center to put out
[35:58] Speaker 9: those benchmarks online. You know, you would say ImageNet 15
[36:02] Speaker 9: years ago was one of the very first benchmark of AI.
[36:06] Speaker 9: I continue to believe importance of benchmark from independent bodies
[36:11] Speaker 9: and public sector bodies like academia, as well as the
[36:15] Speaker 9: shared responsibility of industry, of government together.
[36:20] Speaker 3: Dr.
[36:21] Speaker 2: Fei-Fei Li, the founder and CEO of World Labs, but
[36:23] Speaker 2: also active researcher, academic, pioneer in the field of AI.
[36:27] Speaker 2: Thank you for coming back to us on Bloomberg Tech.
[36:30] Speaker 2: Coming up, we're going to go back to New York
[36:32] Speaker 2: and the UN General Assembly for the latest updates. This
[36:35] Speaker 2: is Bloomberg Tech. Let's get back to New York where
[36:45] Speaker 2: the UN General Assembly is underway. This is Senator Warren
[36:48] Speaker 2: issues a letter to President Trump asking him to confirm
[36:52] Speaker 2: that NVIDIA CEO Jensen Wang won't be at the table
[36:55] Speaker 2: with China's Xi Jinping. Bloomberg's Tyler Kendall has the details. Hi, Tyler.
[37:02] Speaker 3: Hey, Ed, well, this is coming just moments after President
[37:04] Speaker 3: Trump addressed the U.N. General Assembly, where he appeared to
[37:08] Speaker 3: push back on the idea that there could be some
[37:10] Speaker 3: sort of international pact to put guardrails on AI, teeing
[37:14] Speaker 3: it up ahead of his conversation with Chinese President Xi
[37:16] Speaker 3: Jinping later this week. Now, Senator Warren, the ranking member
[37:19] Speaker 3: on the Senate Banking Committee, in part said in this letter, quote,
[37:22] Speaker 3: that she writes with significant concern about the risk that
[37:26] Speaker 3: you will double down on your dangerous approach to artificial
[37:29] Speaker 3: intelligence in your upcoming talks with Xi. That, of course,
[37:33] Speaker 3: is going to raise questions about what sort of Democratic
[37:35] Speaker 3: pushback on Capitol Hill there may be to President Trump's
[37:39] Speaker 3: push when it comes to ensuring that AI development is
[37:43] Speaker 3: not slowed down. Ed, as you well know, later this week,
[37:46] Speaker 3: there will be a state dinner on Thursday where a
[37:48] Speaker 3: range of top tech leaders will be in attendance. That,
[37:50] Speaker 3: of course, includes Jenschen Wang, as well as Bloomberg News
[37:53] Speaker 3: confirming that execs from companies like Microsoft, OpenAI, Apple, and
[37:57] Speaker 3: Qualcomm will.
[37:58] Speaker 2: Be in attendance as well. Bloomberg's Tyler Kendall at the
[38:01] Speaker 2: UN Rose Garden. Big shift from you today. Thank you
[38:04] Speaker 2: very much indeed. That does it for this edition of
[38:06] Speaker 2: Bloomberg Tech. We started with the president at the UNGA.
[38:09] Speaker 2: Key conversations in AI, big market moves, recap on the podcast.
[38:13] Speaker 2: You know where to find it on the terminal online
[38:15] Speaker 2: on Apple, Spotify and iHeart. Thank you very much for watching.
[38:19] Speaker 2: This is Bloomberg Tech.

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