# BONUS SERIES: Our Town Chapter 2 | This Dangerous Venture of Yours

An episode of [Bloomberg Tech](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1611767434), 4 Oct 2026, 39 min.

Audio: https://podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/41764a4f-fc64-4e11-89ba-ae7c0030ab5e/396c3f8c-299c-4f1e-ba9c-b4cf00a19713/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=9caafc41-289c-4115-995d-ae7c0030ab75

Diana looks into the town’s newest arrivals: What’s their deal — and who are their friends? Today on The Big Take: Chapter 2 of Our Town, a limited-run series from Bloomberg and The Big Take, hosted by Meribah Knight with Bloomberg’s Susan Berfield. Our Town tells the story of a battle over identity fought on one small town’s soil, where acreage, heritage, and what it means to be an American are all up for grabs. New episodes of Our Town publish on Mondays, but you can listen early on Fridays right here in The Big Take feed. We have a special Bloomberg subscription offer for podcast listeners at Bloomberg.com/podcastoffer. Hosted by Meribah Knight with Susan Berfield Produced by: Rebecca Laks with Julia Weaver and David Fox and help from Laura Newcombe Edited by: Ken Armstrong with Rebecca Laks Original Score and Mixing by: Alex Sugiura Fact-checking by: Annika Robbins Executive Producer: Nicole Beemsterboer See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:02] Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios.
[0:04] Speaker 2: Podcasts.
[0:05] Speaker 3: Radio. News.
[0:11] Speaker 4: Previously on Our Town.
[0:13] Speaker 5: The first thing you see when it pops up is
[0:16] Speaker 5: pioneers in Appalachia. Like, what am I missing?
[0:19] Speaker 6: Christian nationalists who want to turn a small Middle Tennessee
[0:22] Speaker 6: community into their base of operations.
[0:25] Speaker 4: It was like happening and you didn't even notice. realize
[0:27] Speaker 4: it was happening. I just was trying to figure out
[0:30] Speaker 4: what I personally, one person, could do.
[0:33] Speaker 5: This isn't a fly-by-nine LLC that will be shut down.
[0:36] Speaker 7: Come move here to be with us.
[0:38] Speaker 8: Over the next few years, we have so much planned.
[0:40] Speaker 9: Go to RidgeWinnerUSA.com.
[0:42] Speaker 3: I got a question.
[0:43] Speaker 10: Why are you in Jackson County?
[0:48] Speaker 4: The winter of 2025 was an anxious one in Gainesboro.
[0:52] Speaker 4: It had been several months since news broke about the
[0:54] Speaker 4: plan to build a, quote, a lined community near town.
[0:59] Speaker 4: Ridge Runner, the real estate developer behind the project, was
[1:02] Speaker 4: buying up so much land that it now controlled more
[1:05] Speaker 4: acreage than Gainesboro itself. Locals were uneasy, bracing for what
[1:11] Speaker 4: might come next. Then, on March 31st, 2025... So, Andrew.
[1:19] Speaker 6: Thank you for doing this. You're so controversial. I love that. Yeah,
[1:24] Speaker 6: married man with six kids who pays his taxes. You're
[1:26] Speaker 6: so controversial.
[1:27] Speaker 1: Very.
[1:27] Speaker 6: But you are doing one thing that's pretty wild, which
[1:30] Speaker 6: is participating in the building of a new town.
[1:34] Speaker 4: Tucker Carlson, the influential host, invited someone associated with Ridge
[1:38] Speaker 4: Runner onto his show.
[1:40] Speaker 11: You can have the American small town experience once again.
[1:44] Speaker 4: It was Andrew Isker, the Christian nationalist podcaster who... who'd
[1:48] Speaker 4: moved to Gainesboro the year before.
[1:50] Speaker 6: I want to get back to the Ridge Runner and
[1:52] Speaker 6: the town that's being built, which I assume is a
[1:55] Speaker 6: fascist Christian theocracy.
[1:57] Speaker 11: That's what the TV news in Nashville has.
[2:02] Speaker 12: Said.
[2:02] Speaker 4: This was a stunning leap for Andrew Isker and for
[2:05] Speaker 4: Ridge Runner. Here he was, chatting up Carlson and his
[2:09] Speaker 4: massive audience about building this Christian town in Tennessee.
[2:14] Speaker 11: It's a real estate venture. to build communities. It's large properties, two, three,
[2:20] Speaker 11: 10-acre lots into a place where they can have land,
[2:23] Speaker 11: where they can have some chickens, maybe a cow, live
[2:27] Speaker 11: like Americans used to.
[2:31] Speaker 6: Tell us the response to this, this dangerous venture of yours.
[2:34] Speaker 4: Well, locally, the.
[2:37] Speaker 11: People that I've spoken to, the people I've met in
[2:40] Speaker 11: the town are are very, you know, very enthusiastic, actually.
[2:46] Speaker 1: It just wasn't true.
[2:48] Speaker 4: Locals had watched the episode.
[2:50] Speaker 9: Not what I was seeing on the ground.
[2:52] Speaker 4: I was furious.
[2:53] Speaker 5: These people are a problem, not an asset.
[2:56] Speaker 1: I was pretty horrified. It is a national stage.
[2:59] Speaker 4: Isker was so excited. He was like a puppy that
[3:02] Speaker 4: found a new bone. To Nancy Pruitt, the retired art teacher,
[3:08] Speaker 4: it seemed like this was just another work day for
[3:10] Speaker 4: Tucker Carlson. But for Isker, for Isker, it was like
[3:14] Speaker 4: I've made it to the top. And for Ridge Runner,
[3:17] Speaker 4: this was a walking billboard.
[3:19] Speaker 6: For people who are interested, what's the name of it,
[3:21] Speaker 6: this again?
[3:22] Speaker 11: Ridge Runner.
[3:23] Speaker 7: The website is ridgerunnerusa.com.
[3:28] Speaker 4: On YouTube, this episode got almost 800,000 views. How did
[3:33] Speaker 4: Andrew Isker get on Tucker Carlson? This wasn't some local
[3:36] Speaker 4: YouTube show.
[3:37] Speaker 6: Had someone already bought the land?
[3:38] Speaker 4: Yes, yes, the Ridge Runners bought the parcels.
[3:40] Speaker 11: It's being divided up and sold, you know, as we speak.
[3:43] Speaker 4: This was news to many in Gainesboro. Ridge Runners seemed
[3:46] Speaker 4: to be moving quickly, already prepping lots for sale.
[3:50] Speaker 9: Everybody that was worried about this was doing their own stuff.
[3:53] Speaker 4: Locals were reading, listening, watching everything these guys were putting
[3:58] Speaker 4: into the world.
[3:59] Speaker 8: They think that we're a bunch of dumb idiots, but
[4:01] Speaker 8: we all have done our own little research.
[4:04] Speaker 9: I sat there and took notes. You know, it's hard to.
[4:06] Speaker 3: Watch that stuff.
[4:07] Speaker 5: They're tiring. It's hard to hate that much.
[4:10] Speaker 3: I feel.
[4:11] Speaker 5: So, like, I created a script that went through all
[4:14] Speaker 5: their videos and transcribed them, just so you don't zone
[4:17] Speaker 5: out or your soul leaves your body because you're listening
[4:21] Speaker 5: to Isker.
[4:22] Speaker 4: They were all trying to answer some version of a
[4:24] Speaker 4: question that had been left hanging.
[4:26] Speaker 2: In So, I mean, what's your deal, buddy?
[4:28] Speaker 7: Who's your friends?
[4:30] Speaker 4: What's your deal? Clearly, these guys had a plan. And
[4:35] Speaker 4: who's your friends? Because they definitely had connections. All across Gainesboro,
[4:46] Speaker 4: a handful of small-town amateur sleuths went to work to
[4:50] Speaker 4: figure out what their town was really up against and
[4:53] Speaker 4: how far they were willing to go to protect it.
[5:08] Speaker 4: From Bloomberg News, I'm Maribyn Knight, reporting along with Susan Burfield,
[5:13] Speaker 4: and you're listening to Our Town. This is Chapter Two,
[5:17] Speaker 4: this dangerous venture of yours.
[5:31] Speaker 1: Oh, this is so gorgeous.
[5:35] Speaker 4: Oh my goodness.
[5:36] Speaker 12: How many dogs do you have now?
[5:39] Speaker 4: Ten.
[5:39] Speaker 1: He'll be going up for adoption.
[5:43] Speaker 3: He's a bully.
[5:46] Speaker 4: Barry Naff has a soft spot for dogs. Somehow, they
[5:50] Speaker 4: always find him. His wife, Diana, is definitely an enabler.
[5:55] Speaker 1: This fella, he showed up on the farm looking for help.
[5:58] Speaker 4: He was starving.
[5:59] Speaker 7: We're just going to keep him.
[6:01] Speaker 3: He's sweet.
[6:03] Speaker 4: Barry and Diana's home is perched on the edge of
[6:05] Speaker 4: a forested hill on the outskirts of Gainesboro. They've got
[6:09] Speaker 4: 115 acres of land, where they've put walking trails and
[6:13] Speaker 4: dirt roads for ATVs. So you designed this house?
[6:16] Speaker 3: I did. You built it, too? I did everything but
[6:20] Speaker 3: the framing.
[6:21] Speaker 4: Barry's lanky, usually in jeans and a t-shirt, and always
[6:25] Speaker 4: in motion.
[6:27] Speaker 1: Well, y'all make yourselves at home.
[6:29] Speaker 4: Diana's petite, with brown hair and bookish glasses. She's got
[6:33] Speaker 4: a pink t-shirt on that says, be kind, of a bitch.
[6:39] Speaker 4: Inside at her dining table, she got down to business.
[6:42] Speaker 3: It's a serious computer.
[6:45] Speaker 1: It's called a tough book.
[6:47] Speaker 4: It's a massive laptop that could probably survive a mortar blast,
[6:51] Speaker 4: filled with research.
[6:52] Speaker 3: Can you just take me.
[6:53] Speaker 4: Through again all of the literature and the things you consume?
[6:57] Speaker 8: Sure.
[6:58] Speaker 10: We don't have enough time for that.
[7:02] Speaker 1: I do have a bibliography.
[7:05] Speaker 4: Barry is right. We don't have enough time for that.
[7:08] Speaker 4: Because when Ridge Runner landed in Gainesboro, Diana was worried
[7:11] Speaker 4: about what this all meant for her town. So she
[7:13] Speaker 4: went into research mode, and of all the local sleuths,
[7:17] Speaker 4: she dug the deepest.
[7:18] Speaker 1: This has been on my mind.
[7:19] Speaker 4: It's on my mind every day. Yeah. Yeah. Hours and hours,
[7:23] Speaker 4: every day, for weeks and weeks, Diana searched the internet.
[7:27] Speaker 10: Well, now, I got all my information from the reader
[7:30] Speaker 10: and the listener here.
[7:31] Speaker 3: If it's not something to do with hot rods or,
[7:35] Speaker 3: you know, welding... Or dogs. Or dogs. I'm not reading it.
[7:40] Speaker 4: Barry jokes, but he was just as serious about the
[7:42] Speaker 4: research as Diana. He grew up in Gainesboro, so he
[7:46] Speaker 4: had a lot at stake.
[7:48] Speaker 1: Barry's family, the Knaffs, the Drapers, they've been here forever.
[7:52] Speaker 3: Matt Graper, that's my great-grandfather.
[7:54] Speaker 1: He pretty much built Jackson County for us.
[7:56] Speaker 3: He did.
[7:57] Speaker 4: Diana, though, is a transplant to Gainesboro. She came from Florida,
[8:01] Speaker 4: where she owned a successful medical consulting firm. Twenty years ago,
[8:06] Speaker 4: she fell in love with Middle Tennessee.
[8:08] Speaker 1: It was like looking at paradise.
[8:11] Speaker 4: In 2005, she bought a farm, and locals welcomed her.
[8:15] Speaker 1: We had some lovely folk that would invite us to
[8:17] Speaker 1: Thanksgiving dinner. cookouts down by the river, marathon drinking sessions
[8:23] Speaker 1: that involved moonshine.
[8:25] Speaker 4: But Gainesboro itself was flagging, and Diana wanted to help
[8:28] Speaker 4: revive it. So she bought a building on the town
[8:31] Speaker 4: square and fixed it up.
[8:33] Speaker 1: Just started talking to people about what did they wish
[8:36] Speaker 1: they had.
[8:37] Speaker 4: They wanted a dress shop, so she opened a dress shop.
[8:42] Speaker 4: And this is how she and Barry met.
[8:45] Speaker 3: I had a metal fab shop.
[8:47] Speaker 10: I just had my parking lot redone, and she drops
[8:50] Speaker 10: a bucket of paint in my parking lot.
[8:52] Speaker 1: I was bringing it to him because it was the
[8:54] Speaker 1: paint I wanted to use to paint the sign, and
[8:57] Speaker 1: I dropped it.
[8:59] Speaker 4: The sign for her new dress shop. She'd hired Barry
[9:02] Speaker 4: to make it.
[9:02] Speaker 10: I got a big brown spot in my parking lot,
[9:06] Speaker 10: so that's how we met.
[9:08] Speaker 4: Now, years later, the two sat next to each other
[9:11] Speaker 4: at their dining table. in their dream house, facing a
[9:14] Speaker 4: massive wall of windows that framed the rolling hills, sunrise
[9:18] Speaker 4: to sunset.
[9:19] Speaker 1: If he never had to leave this property, he'd be fine.
[9:24] Speaker 4: But now, their peace had been punctured.
[9:28] Speaker 9: This country belongs to Jesus.
[9:30] Speaker 4: By Ridge Runner and the men who came along with it,
[9:33] Speaker 4: the podcaster Andrew Isker.
[9:35] Speaker 8: Do you unequivocally renounce anti-Semitism, racism, and Nazism?
[9:39] Speaker 9: I don't get down to the weeds of playing those games.
[9:41] Speaker 4: His co-host, C.J.
[9:43] Speaker 3: Engel.
[9:44] Speaker 13: I don't unequivocally pronounce these things.
[9:46] Speaker 6: No, I don't.
[9:47] Speaker 4: Punctured by Andrew Isker's talk of hate.
[9:50] Speaker 7: How do I impart that to my children, the same ethos?
[9:55] Speaker 7: I'm like, well, I have to teach them what to hate.
[9:57] Speaker 4: By C.J. Engels' talk of slavery.
[9:59] Speaker 6: The existence of slavery itself is not a sin.
[10:02] Speaker 9: Now, mistreating a slave, that would be sinful.
[10:05] Speaker 4: Their views on women.
[10:07] Speaker 7: God made men to rule, period.
[10:09] Speaker 4: And Jewish people.
[10:11] Speaker 9: Jews, in the biblical sense, they do not exist anymore.
[10:15] Speaker 9: It's only Christians and non-Christians.
[10:17] Speaker 4: And gay people.
[10:18] Speaker 7: The poor homosexuals are being oppressed and everyone's being mean
[10:21] Speaker 7: to them. And so we need to be okay with
[10:24] Speaker 7: gay marriage.
[10:26] Speaker 4: Diana, like many others, had never expected Gainesboro to attract
[10:30] Speaker 4: newcomers like these.
[10:32] Speaker 1: So many people were working so hard to help this
[10:36] Speaker 1: community and build up this community. I just couldn't stand
[10:39] Speaker 1: to see it.
[10:40] Speaker 4: So the day after the TV report had broken the news,
[10:42] Speaker 4: Diana decided to speak up. She went to the Bull
[10:45] Speaker 4: and Thistle, the restaurant she'd opened a while back. And
[10:48] Speaker 4: on the chalkboard outside, instead of the daily specials, she
[10:52] Speaker 4: wrote a message.
[10:53] Speaker 1: It just said, if you're a person or a group
[10:57] Speaker 1: that promotes the oppression, discrimination against others, please eat somewhere
[11:04] Speaker 1: else and you won't like it here.
[11:06] Speaker 3: May it work.
[11:07] Speaker 4: They never saw anyone from Ridge Runner step foot in
[11:10] Speaker 4: the restaurant again. But even if Barry and Diana didn't
[11:13] Speaker 4: see them at the restaurant, Ridge Runner was already starting
[11:16] Speaker 4: to take up a lot of space in their life. Literally.
[11:20] Speaker 4: It had purchased hundreds of acres on either side of
[11:23] Speaker 4: their property in the hills for its, quote, aligned community.
[11:28] Speaker 4: Barry was consumed by anger.
[11:30] Speaker 3: I just, I just, it just made my blood boil.
[11:36] Speaker 1: Poor Barry.
[11:37] Speaker 4: Diana is the yin to Barry's yang. She's cool-headed.
[11:41] Speaker 1: You know, you should never take anything on face value, right?
[11:46] Speaker 4: So she decided to take a beat, step back, and
[11:49] Speaker 4: start at the beginning.
[11:50] Speaker 1: So myself, a number of other folks were like, well,
[11:55] Speaker 1: could this be the whole story? And then the next
[11:59] Speaker 1: question was, how bad is it really?
[12:01] Speaker 3: She was determined to see what they were about.
[12:05] Speaker 4: Who exactly were these guys, and what did they really want?
[12:09] Speaker 4: So Diana readied her laptop and went looking.
[12:12] Speaker 1: What do they do? Are they writing? Are they interviewing?
[12:15] Speaker 1: Do they have books?
[12:16] Speaker 4: Yes, yes, and yes. Substacks, books, articles, and podcasts. So
[12:23] Speaker 4: many podcasts.
[12:24] Speaker 1: And then I'd follow the affiliations. It was like going
[12:28] Speaker 1: through these tunnels that were all underground. You really kind
[12:33] Speaker 1: of had to dig and follow things because you have
[12:36] Speaker 1: to know. You have to Really, no.
[12:40] Speaker 4: And what Diana found was more than she ever expected.
[12:44] Speaker 1: It was so much deeper and wider and bigger than
[12:47] Speaker 1: just Gainesboro. This is a very widespread movement. It runs
[12:51] Speaker 1: very deep, and it runs very high.
[12:57] Speaker 4: The podcasters were among the first arrivals to town that
[13:01] Speaker 4: Diana knew of, and they'd talked excitedly about the prospects
[13:04] Speaker 4: of their new life in Gainesboro.
[13:06] Speaker 7: Like, I mean, many of my friends online, right? Well,
[13:09] Speaker 7: we want to have that in real life where instead
[13:12] Speaker 7: of laughing at each other's jokes in a group chat, right?
[13:15] Speaker 7: We want to be able to laugh at each other's
[13:17] Speaker 7: jokes on our front porches.
[13:18] Speaker 4: Listening to them, it sure sounded to Diana like they'd
[13:22] Speaker 4: been recruited.
[13:23] Speaker 7: The ability of Ridge Runner to make that kind of
[13:25] Speaker 7: thing happen where now you can be with all of
[13:27] Speaker 7: your friends in real life and do life together, have.
[13:31] Speaker 1: I understood that Josh Abitoy brought them to our place,
[13:35] Speaker 1: brought them to Jackson County.
[13:37] Speaker 4: Josh Abitoy, the CEO of Ridge Runner. Diana had heard
[13:40] Speaker 4: Abitoy talking on a couple of podcasts about zeroing in
[13:44] Speaker 4: on Gainesboro as the perfect place for his, quote, people.
[13:48] Speaker 1: He was bringing some really exciting people. You know, some
[13:51] Speaker 1: really cool people are coming.
[13:53] Speaker 12: And we've got some really cool people lined up who
[13:56] Speaker 12: are going to be joining the project, moving there. The
[13:59] Speaker 12: whole point of it is to plant a flag.
[14:03] Speaker 1: He's talking about Isker and Engel.
[14:07] Speaker 4: The podcasters, who Abitoy refers to as his customers.
[14:11] Speaker 12: This small town is where, you know, our people are gathering.
[14:18] Speaker 4: But why her small town? It was the question Diana
[14:22] Speaker 4: and so many others had been asking. Turns out, as
[14:25] Speaker 4: Diana discovered, Josh Abatoy already knew the area. He'd grown
[14:30] Speaker 4: up about 30 miles west of Gainesboro. He'd left to
[14:33] Speaker 4: go to college, then grad school for medieval history, and
[14:37] Speaker 4: Harvard for law. He worked as a corporate lawyer in Texas,
[14:41] Speaker 4: but by his mid-30s, he was ready for a change,
[14:44] Speaker 4: and he moved back to Tennessee with his wife and
[14:46] Speaker 4: young children. When we asked Abitoy for an interview, he declined. Occasionally,
[14:53] Speaker 4: Diana had seen him around town, walking the square, or
[14:57] Speaker 4: once at the Dollar General.
[14:58] Speaker 1: He was there in his hunting vest and his boots,
[15:01] Speaker 1: and he had the full regalia on.
[15:04] Speaker 4: And I thought about that.
[15:05] Speaker 1: You know, he's playing a part. He's filling a role.
[15:10] Speaker 1: He's got a goal. So I really wanted to understand Abitoy.
[15:15] Speaker 1: his connections, and what was his end goal.
[15:19] Speaker 12: We need cities on a shining hill that exemplify and
[15:23] Speaker 12: embody the healthy, natural, human way of life, the Christian
[15:27] Speaker 12: way of life, and demonstrate the superiority of that way
[15:31] Speaker 12: of life.
[15:32] Speaker 4: This was a theme of his Diana came across often,
[15:36] Speaker 4: his desire to build a life away from chaotic, unchristian
[15:40] Speaker 4: urban communities. Abitoy says he's not a Christian nationalist, but
[15:45] Speaker 4: talks often about reviving America with conservative, economically vibrant Christian towns,
[15:51] Speaker 4: charter communities, he calls them. He envisions a rural and
[15:55] Speaker 4: red revolution of conservative religious people moving to the countryside. Gainesboro,
[16:01] Speaker 4: he hoped, would be one such place.
[16:05] Speaker 12: It's not a crazy place like a lot of urban
[16:08] Speaker 12: areas are. You're not going to go there and see
[16:10] Speaker 12: rainbow flags all over the place, but it's also pretty
[16:12] Speaker 12: low crime.
[16:13] Speaker 4: It also had plenty of land.
[16:15] Speaker 3: Who's going to grab the land?
[16:17] Speaker 12: Is it going to be, you know, good-based people who
[16:20] Speaker 12: want to build something?
[16:21] Speaker 1: And he was excited about it.
[16:23] Speaker 12: Or is it going to be, you know, Bill Gates
[16:26] Speaker 12: and Black Rock and, you know, hippies from California?
[16:31] Speaker 4: Occasionally, Abitoy would drop a detail here and there about
[16:35] Speaker 4: the Gainesboro Project's progress.
[16:37] Speaker 12: We have a lot more purchases under contract right now.
[16:40] Speaker 12: So as of today, there are 40 households in the
[16:42] Speaker 12: Target region who have bought or moved there as a
[16:45] Speaker 12: result of our efforts.
[16:47] Speaker 3: You know, they're spending money, you know, fixing the road,
[16:49] Speaker 3: running electric.
[16:50] Speaker 4: Barry had seen the landscape near his property change. Dirt
[16:54] Speaker 4: roads where there hadn't been any. Markers for new lots.
[16:58] Speaker 4: But otherwise, he and Diana still weren't really sure what
[17:01] Speaker 4: they'd be living next to. so they continued keeping close
[17:05] Speaker 4: watch for any clues from their future neighbors. One came soon.
[17:11] Speaker 4: The invitations went out via email. Elegant, slightly mysterious. A
[17:16] Speaker 4: drawing of an eight-point buck with the words Land, Liberty, Legacy,
[17:22] Speaker 4: Ridge Runner's logo, and below, a dropped pin revealing a location.
[17:28] Speaker 4: Ridge Runner was hosting its first official open house, except
[17:32] Speaker 4: there weren't any houses yet, and it wasn't really open.
[17:35] Speaker 4: Prospective buyers only. No media. The invitation said so clearly. However,
[17:42] Speaker 4: someone in town had gotten on Ridge Runner's email list
[17:45] Speaker 4: by posing as a prospective buyer.
[17:48] Speaker 8: I just entered a name and an email address.
[17:52] Speaker 1: And, of course, I used a male's name.
[17:55] Speaker 4: It worked. And when the invite arrived, she quickly passed
[17:58] Speaker 4: it around. Locals, Diana and Barry among them, were now
[18:02] Speaker 4: able to see what Ridge Runner had planned. It was
[18:06] Speaker 4: called the Highland Rim Project. On the invite, there was
[18:10] Speaker 4: a map showing a village with a community center, farmland,
[18:14] Speaker 4: and a farm store. They called it an agri-hood. Potential
[18:19] Speaker 4: buyers were encouraged to sign up for a 30-minute tour
[18:22] Speaker 4: of available plots.
[18:23] Speaker 12: We have a lot of customers like this who have
[18:26] Speaker 12: lived most of their life in the cities or suburbs,
[18:29] Speaker 12: and they dream of a healthier, more natural way of life.
[18:33] Speaker 3: Maybe they have.
[18:33] Speaker 12: A small little hobby farm. So when they're not working
[18:37] Speaker 12: for Google or some other major employer, they can step
[18:41] Speaker 12: outside and touch grass and milk a cow.
[18:44] Speaker 4: And for some time away from the wives and kids.
[18:47] Speaker 12: One of the really exciting things that we're going to
[18:49] Speaker 12: be announcing is called the Highland Rim Sporting Club. It's
[18:53] Speaker 12: a men-only club cultivating together excellence and virtue and where
[18:56] Speaker 12: they can, you know, socialize with other interesting friends and
[18:59] Speaker 12: hopefully shoot some deer as well.
[19:01] Speaker 4: This was Abitoy's vision for life in the agri-hood. Healthy, natural, Christian, superior.
[19:10] Speaker 4: There were 44 plots going from $ 50, 000 to $ 150, 000. The
[19:16] Speaker 4: prices were staggeringly high by Gainesboro standards. When locals looked
[19:21] Speaker 4: more closely at the map, They also noticed something else.
[19:25] Speaker 4: Right in the center, the very heart of the community,
[19:28] Speaker 4: was a church. A church, it turns out, that would
[19:32] Speaker 4: be led by someone they were already familiar with.
[19:34] Speaker 9: This country belongs to Jesus.
[19:37] Speaker 4: Andrew Isker, the Christian nationalist podcaster.
[19:40] Speaker 7: That's what the gospel is.
[19:42] Speaker 4: Who is also a preacher.
[19:43] Speaker 7: Jesus has conquered.
[19:45] Speaker 3: He is king.
[19:45] Speaker 7: He has a kingdom.
[19:46] Speaker 8: The kingdom is here.
[19:48] Speaker 4: More after the break. The open house was late June,
[19:55] Speaker 4: just a few months after Tucker Carlson had helped promote
[19:58] Speaker 4: Ridge Runner on his show. The day did not go
[20:01] Speaker 4: as planned. It was particularly hot and muggy. A big
[20:06] Speaker 4: storm was rolling in. The invite to the open house
[20:10] Speaker 4: had provided very specific driving instructions to the Ridge Runner property.
[20:15] Speaker 4: It directed guests to take Highway 56, a route that
[20:19] Speaker 4: would take them right past downtown Gainesboro, and offer them
[20:22] Speaker 4: a glimpse of what makes it special. They'd pass rolling
[20:26] Speaker 4: hills and vibrant local businesses, like Nana's Place and Helen's Restaurant,
[20:31] Speaker 4: home to legendary banana pudding. Then, as guests approached town,
[20:36] Speaker 4: The first inkling that all was not well in Gainesboro.
[20:40] Speaker 4: A big, solitary billboard welcoming drivers to town. But a
[20:45] Speaker 4: welcome with a warning. Here, nasty notions play no part.
[20:51] Speaker 4: Then after entering downtown, if guests turned down Main Street,
[20:55] Speaker 4: they'd see Gainesboro's patriotism on full display.
[20:59] Speaker 1: A little festival on the square. It's fantastic. Happened to
[21:03] Speaker 1: be the same day as that open house.
[21:05] Speaker 4: It was the annual Fourth of July celebration, which the
[21:08] Speaker 4: town celebrates at the end of June. American flags fluttered,
[21:12] Speaker 4: locals chatted in the town square. But this year, there
[21:16] Speaker 4: was something new, right in the middle of it all.
[21:19] Speaker 4: A tent with a sign. Christian nationalism in Jackson County?
[21:23] Speaker 1: I said, do you mind if we put up a
[21:26] Speaker 1: tent and I have these information sheets that we can
[21:30] Speaker 1: give out to people if they're interested?
[21:32] Speaker 4: Barry and Diana had printed out dozens of fact sheets
[21:35] Speaker 4: she'd compiled from her months of research.
[21:38] Speaker 3: And what did it say?
[21:39] Speaker 1: Well, it was eight pages long.
[21:41] Speaker 10: Most people saw us and needed to know us, so
[21:43] Speaker 10: they just came over and said, what are y'all doing,
[21:45] Speaker 10: you know?
[21:45] Speaker 4: As folks ambled by, they could grab Diana's packet, which
[21:49] Speaker 4: contained direct quotes, footnotes, citations, and biographical details of Josh Abitoy,
[21:56] Speaker 4: the podcasters, Ridge Runner, Once Ridge Runner's guests were passed downtown,
[22:05] Speaker 4: they'd get back on the highway, drive another eight miles,
[22:08] Speaker 4: over a bridge with stunning views, to the last stretch
[22:12] Speaker 4: of road before the meeting spot. It was lined with trees,
[22:16] Speaker 4: but also.
[22:17] Speaker 9: Small signs on the telephone poles.
[22:19] Speaker 4: That's Mark Dudney, the historian. Every sign had the familiar rebuke.
[22:25] Speaker 4: Hate has no home in Gainesboro. While Ridge Runner had
[22:29] Speaker 4: been preparing for its first big event, so had some
[22:32] Speaker 4: of the locals. In the middle of the night, they'd
[22:34] Speaker 4: hung dozens of those signs. And at the entrance to
[22:38] Speaker 4: the Ridge Runner property, there was a huge banner stuck
[22:41] Speaker 4: into the grass, like the finish line at a race.
[22:45] Speaker 4: Hate has no home in Jackson County.
[22:47] Speaker 9: Let's put up back concerned citizens.
[22:50] Speaker 4: Who also happened to be Mark's friends. Eventually, one of
[22:54] Speaker 4: the podcasters drove out and blocked the banner with his truck.
[22:58] Speaker 13: I guess they didn't want that to be seen by
[23:00] Speaker 13: their prospective buyers, and some of my friends went back
[23:04] Speaker 13: and moved it.
[23:05] Speaker 9: It's like a high school thing or something.
[23:07] Speaker 11: Yes.
[23:09] Speaker 5: Somebody's told you about what I've done.
[23:11] Speaker 4: Mark's friend grabbed the banner and just set it up
[23:13] Speaker 4: across the street.
[23:14] Speaker 3: So they'd have to see it when they turned in.
[23:18] Speaker 4: And one more detail about the day.
[23:23] Speaker 13: Coincidentally, there were two fugitives on the run, and the
[23:30] Speaker 13: police were over there chasing them. Yeah.
[23:33] Speaker 9: And that Saturday was when they got caught.
[23:37] Speaker 4: The day of the open house, turns out, two people
[23:40] Speaker 4: had escaped from a nearby jail and fled into the woods.
[23:43] Speaker 4: The woods next to Ridge Runner's property. There were police cars,
[23:47] Speaker 4: flashing lights... And in the middle of the open house,
[23:51] Speaker 4: officers apprehended the fugitives, a shirtless man and a pantsless woman.
[23:57] Speaker 9: So again, it was really hot and humid that day.
[24:00] Speaker 13: You had hate has no home signs, and then you
[24:03] Speaker 13: had the two mud-covered fugitives on the run out there
[24:07] Speaker 13: with law enforcement presence.
[24:08] Speaker 9: On that very road in that community. So I don't
[24:13] Speaker 9: know how that went for them.
[24:17] Speaker 4: Mark and the others never found out for sure if
[24:19] Speaker 4: the open house was a success for Ridge Runner or
[24:22] Speaker 4: if their efforts had managed to turn off any buyers. Regardless,
[24:26] Speaker 4: Diana and Barry could see that Ridge Runner kept hard
[24:29] Speaker 4: at work, clearing and prepping land, and they kept promoting.
[24:34] Speaker 4: Ridge Runner rented a billboard of their own, right on
[24:37] Speaker 4: the other side of the Nasty Notions one, the one
[24:40] Speaker 4: on the way into town. Ridge Runners said, God bless
[24:44] Speaker 4: Jackson County, we're proud to call it home. For Diana
[24:49] Speaker 4: and Barry, it was yet another provocation. Ridge Runner was
[24:53] Speaker 4: staking its claim to the land.
[24:55] Speaker 1: They have the right to live however they want to
[24:57] Speaker 1: live and believe how they want to believe, but they
[25:00] Speaker 1: cannot brand us.
[25:02] Speaker 4: Then Diana got a tip. Ridge Runner's lease on the
[25:05] Speaker 4: billboard would be up in six months, so she swooped
[25:08] Speaker 4: in before Ridge Runner could renew, booked it for a
[25:11] Speaker 4: whole year, $ 10, 000, paid for by a generous neighbor. Meanwhile,
[25:18] Speaker 4: Barry did his own thing. He got into his truck
[25:21] Speaker 4: and drove across the state line.
[25:22] Speaker 10: Went to the courthouse and talked to them about, you know,
[25:26] Speaker 10: Abitoy and the property that he bought.
[25:28] Speaker 4: Records confirmed Ridge Runner had also scooped up land in Kentucky,
[25:32] Speaker 4: 550 acres, close enough to Gainesboro that it could someday
[25:37] Speaker 4: come together into one huge community, one big Highland Rim project.
[25:43] Speaker 1: I mean, the whole landscape's going to change, y'all.
[25:45] Speaker 4: For Barry and Diana, the scale of what Ridge Runner
[25:48] Speaker 4: was doing, and what Gainsborough was caught up in, was
[25:51] Speaker 4: coming into focus.
[25:53] Speaker 1: They're pouring money into this.
[25:55] Speaker 4: It seemed so much larger than Diana suspected, especially after
[26:00] Speaker 4: she heard Josh Abitoy talk about the venture, comparing it
[26:04] Speaker 4: to the new world.
[26:06] Speaker 12: I mean, this is what the Pilgrims did, you know,
[26:08] Speaker 12: getting persecuted in England. And so they ended up taking
[26:11] Speaker 12: this swing where, you know, it was this partnership of
[26:14] Speaker 12: pastors and community leaders and financiers who funded like the
[26:19] Speaker 12: Mayflower to go found the Plymouth Colony.
[26:21] Speaker 4: Pilgrims, colonies, pastors, financiers. If this was the comparison, who
[26:28] Speaker 4: was Ridge Runner's financier? Who had enough wealth and ambition
[26:32] Speaker 4: to back this whole endeavor? More after the break. To
[26:41] Speaker 4: find the financier, Diana, of course, followed the money behind
[26:46] Speaker 4: Abitoy and Ridge Runner, and that led her right to
[26:49] Speaker 4: the source.
[26:50] Speaker 1: Ridge Runner, Josh Abitoy, then from there that takes you
[26:53] Speaker 1: to New Founding.
[26:55] Speaker 4: Remember New Founding?
[26:56] Speaker 5: We are forging an alliance to revitalize American civilization, bringing builders, creators,
[27:02] Speaker 5: and concerned citizens together.
[27:04] Speaker 4: That other company Brian Allen had come across while trying
[27:07] Speaker 4: to metal detect.
[27:08] Speaker 1: It is a venture capital firm.
[27:10] Speaker 4: It's also Ridge Runner's partner in the Highland Rim project.
[27:14] Speaker 4: New Founding's website is striking. Images of cowboys, the Great Plains,
[27:19] Speaker 4: a Gothic cathedral, astronauts. The company aimed to solve, quote,
[27:25] Speaker 4: critical civilizational problems.
[27:27] Speaker 1: If you follow New Founding, and that takes you to
[27:30] Speaker 1: Nate Fisher.
[27:31] Speaker 4: Who is Nate Fisher?
[27:33] Speaker 1: Okay, good old Nate. I can tell you all about Nate.
[27:37] Speaker 4: Diana clicked around, opening some documents on her laptop. Nate
[27:42] Speaker 4: Fisher is the head of New Founding, the man at
[27:45] Speaker 4: the top of all of this, who Diana found also
[27:48] Speaker 4: goes on a lot of podcasts.
[27:50] Speaker 2: To build that city on the hill or set an
[27:52] Speaker 2: example or come together in ventures that can actually shape
[27:56] Speaker 2: the country.
[27:57] Speaker 4: He's someone with grand plans and.
[28:00] Speaker 1: Wide-scale personal agenda's.
[28:02] Speaker 4: Yes, wide-scale agendas. Fisher didn't respond to our requests for comment.
[28:09] Speaker 4: Fisher is in his early 40s and lives in Dallas.
[28:12] Speaker 4: He's got a real Alex P.
[28:14] Speaker 9: Keaton vibe.
[28:15] Speaker 4: Sweater vests, an aggressive side part. He speaks almost robotically. Fisher,
[28:21] Speaker 4: like Josh Abatoy, graduated from Harvard Law School. After graduation,
[28:25] Speaker 4: Fisher made millions buying and selling distressed homes in Florida
[28:29] Speaker 4: in the wake of the 2008 financial crisis.
[28:32] Speaker 8: Business was good. Investing was good.
[28:35] Speaker 2: But I started thinking about sort of drawn back to
[28:38] Speaker 2: the political questions.
[28:40] Speaker 4: Then he traveled the world, studying societies in flux. He
[28:43] Speaker 4: returned to an America that he believed was in distress,
[28:47] Speaker 4: that needed Christian leaders and Christian ideas to help restore it.
[28:51] Speaker 8: You are a Christian.
[28:53] Speaker 12: I am.
[28:54] Speaker 4: This is Fisher on a podcast called The Fallen State.
[28:58] Speaker 8: And why are you a Christian?
[28:59] Speaker 2: So I believe that it means I was chosen by God.
[29:03] Speaker 2: My broader mission is to fulfill that Genesis 1 dominion mandate.
[29:07] Speaker 8: Fill the earth and subdue it. Take dominion.
[29:10] Speaker 4: Dominion. You hear that word a lot in these circles.
[29:14] Speaker 4: Dominion is the belief that Christians are called to have
[29:17] Speaker 4: absolute authority over society, over the world. It's an essential
[29:21] Speaker 4: idea behind Christian nationalism.
[29:24] Speaker 2: What excites me most about the discussions around Christian nationalism,
[29:27] Speaker 2: for instance, is that is really a proposed as a
[29:32] Speaker 2: true alternative positive vision for where we need to go.
[29:35] Speaker 4: For Fisher, there's a clear path to dominion, a path
[29:38] Speaker 4: that begins at home.
[29:40] Speaker 8: That's achieved through having kids, having a family.
[29:44] Speaker 4: Fisher has five children, and he says a strict family order.
[29:48] Speaker 3: And does your wife obey you? Yes.
[29:53] Speaker 8: What? I mean, you asked the question. Yes, she does.
[29:57] Speaker 3: When you say she obeys you, What does that mean
[30:01] Speaker 3: to you?
[30:02] Speaker 2: It means that she recognizes my leadership in the family.
[30:08] Speaker 2: I am the ultimate leader. I'm the ultimate decision maker,
[30:12] Speaker 2: subject to God.
[30:14] Speaker 4: There are other steps to achieving dominion.
[30:16] Speaker 2: Success in business. And I would say for me now,
[30:20] Speaker 2: it's a step beyond that.
[30:21] Speaker 4: Fisher imagined an array of businesses, businesses that could build
[30:26] Speaker 4: and sustain a future Christian society. That, Diana came to understand,
[30:31] Speaker 4: was why Fisher had created Newfounding, to fund and foster
[30:35] Speaker 4: that ecosystem of companies.
[30:37] Speaker 2: I've put millions of dollars into it. I've built networks,
[30:40] Speaker 2: I've built teams, I've built other things.
[30:43] Speaker 1: Even though the industries might differ, they're still following businesses
[30:47] Speaker 1: and investing in businesses that are in line with that ideology.
[30:52] Speaker 4: The venture capital firm's investments are far-ranging. Laser weapons, private security, drones, ammunition,
[30:59] Speaker 4: AI systems, education software, even snacks, with no seed oil.
[31:06] Speaker 4: Diana learned there was one final part to Fisher's vision
[31:09] Speaker 4: for a Christian-led world, this new society, or civilization, as
[31:14] Speaker 4: he often refers to it. It will only rise up
[31:17] Speaker 4: after our existing institutions collapse. Fisher said that's already begun.
[31:23] Speaker 2: Many people are pessimistic. They see disturbing cultural changes. No
[31:27] Speaker 2: clear path to change these. Widely collapsing trust in society.
[31:31] Speaker 4: In a letter laying out his strategy, Fisher wrote that
[31:34] Speaker 4: the coming years will bring, quote, turmoil and peril, but
[31:38] Speaker 4: also great opportunity. We are, quote, at the end of
[31:42] Speaker 4: a civilizational cycle.
[31:44] Speaker 1: I took that to mean that the old order, everything
[31:49] Speaker 1: from how authority and law is established and enforced was
[31:57] Speaker 1: all coming to an end.
[31:58] Speaker 4: Part of being ready for the end of the civilizational
[32:01] Speaker 4: cycle is building communities of Christendom, places to amass power
[32:06] Speaker 4: and to seek shelter from all the turmoil and peril
[32:09] Speaker 4: that's to come.
[32:11] Speaker 1: They have talked about how they intend to start with
[32:16] Speaker 1: one state in the Union and establish that as the
[32:20] Speaker 1: state for that ideology. and then branch out from there
[32:24] Speaker 1: over time. But they will start with one state, and
[32:27] Speaker 1: they have chosen Tennessee as that state.
[32:32] Speaker 4: Diana started looking into Fisher's investors and connections.
[32:36] Speaker 1: The people backing these developments are very wealthy. They're pouring
[32:40] Speaker 1: money into this, and they have a lot more to pour.
[32:44] Speaker 4: Who Fisher has brought in to help back the Highland
[32:47] Speaker 4: Rim project is hard to know exactly. But his network
[32:50] Speaker 4: of conservative power and money is vast. The DeVos family
[32:55] Speaker 4: and the Heritage Foundation, a crypto investor interested in Christian causes,
[33:00] Speaker 4: and a Silicon Valley billionaire, Mark Andreessen, whose venture firm
[33:05] Speaker 4: is now the Republicans' biggest donor. When we reached out
[33:09] Speaker 4: to them all for comment, we heard back from the
[33:11] Speaker 4: crypto investor, Nick Carter. He said he liked New Founding's
[33:15] Speaker 4: unabashed focus on America. No one else responded.
[33:20] Speaker 1: So what does that mean for us? It makes it
[33:23] Speaker 1: scary to stand in opposition to the ideology.
[33:29] Speaker 4: An ideology Newfounding was strategically spreading through its own media.
[33:34] Speaker 4: It had podcasts, of course, and a journal called the
[33:37] Speaker 4: American Reformer. It was founded to, quote, promote a vigorous
[33:42] Speaker 4: Christian approach to the cultural challenges of our day. It's
[33:47] Speaker 4: run by Ridgerunner CEO Josh Abatoit. And it, too, has
[33:51] Speaker 4: some powerful connections. A director at American Reformer is Chris Buskirk,
[33:57] Speaker 4: a close ally of Vice President J.D. Vance. Buskirk is
[34:01] Speaker 4: also in business with Donald Trump Jr. Buskirk didn't respond
[34:05] Speaker 4: to our request for comment. This was a lot for
[34:10] Speaker 4: Diana to take in. And the town, too.
[34:13] Speaker 1: Because they feel like they're not just opposing what's being
[34:18] Speaker 1: planned for here. they feel like they're standing in opposition
[34:22] Speaker 1: to an entire administration. And that scares them.
[34:26] Speaker 4: Here's my reporting partner, Susan.
[34:28] Speaker 1: And what did that make you think about where Gainesboro
[34:31] Speaker 1: fits into that? You know, our town is small, small
[34:38] Speaker 1: taters by most standards, right? But to the people who
[34:42] Speaker 1: grew up here, it's everything. It's always been everything. And,
[34:46] Speaker 1: you know, they've seen good times come and good times
[34:49] Speaker 1: go and They've seen flourishing, they've seen destitution, they've seen
[34:55] Speaker 1: it all, but they've never seen anything like this.
[35:00] Speaker 4: The residents of Gainesboro seemed outmatched by new founding and
[35:04] Speaker 4: Ridge Runner in every way. Diana and Barry, of course,
[35:07] Speaker 4: realized this, but they were tenacious.
[35:10] Speaker 3: And she don't mess around. I mean, if something comes
[35:13] Speaker 3: in her head.
[35:14] Speaker 1: And a lot of people here still read the newspaper.
[35:16] Speaker 4: In Gainesboro, people like to know the facts about everybody.
[35:21] Speaker 4: So Diana wrote a series of articles.
[35:24] Speaker 1: Has Christian nationalism come to Jackson County?
[35:27] Speaker 4: In November 2024... She knew the paper's reach was modest,
[35:31] Speaker 4: nothing compared to the American Reformer, which Abitoy ran, or
[35:35] Speaker 4: to the Federalist, which Abitoy also contributed to. But the
[35:39] Speaker 4: newspaper reached her people. She also deployed yet another billboard
[35:44] Speaker 4: in towns. to send a different message.
[35:46] Speaker 1: To make it clear that this isn't who we are.
[35:50] Speaker 4: For about $ 500 a month, she rented a billboard at
[35:53] Speaker 4: the entrance of town, a black background with bold white
[35:56] Speaker 4: lettering that said, Just love everyone. I'll sort them out later.
[36:01] Speaker 12: God.
[36:04] Speaker 4: But the town square, the heartbeat of Gainesboro, was where
[36:07] Speaker 4: Diana decided to carry out her boldest act yet, where
[36:11] Speaker 4: she would take Abitoy on directly. There was a building
[36:15] Speaker 4: on the square with the only coffee shop in town,
[36:18] Speaker 4: and the building's owners were looking to sell.
[36:21] Speaker 1: We knew that Josh Abitoy was talking to the owners
[36:24] Speaker 1: about buying it.
[36:25] Speaker 4: Diana worried about the coffee shop, which was run by
[36:28] Speaker 4: a mom and her daughters, and about Ridge Runner getting
[36:31] Speaker 4: a foothold in downtown.
[36:33] Speaker 1: We cared about what happened to them, and then we
[36:35] Speaker 1: cared about what happens on the square.
[36:38] Speaker 4: So Diana and Barry rushed and made their own offer. $ 420, 000,
[36:44] Speaker 4: which is more than the asking price. The building was hers. Then,
[36:54] Speaker 4: Diana stumbled upon someplace else, thousands of miles away from Gainesboro.
[36:59] Speaker 4: A glimpse into one possible future for her little town.
[37:03] Speaker 4: What she saw shook her, but she thought it might
[37:06] Speaker 4: also hold some answers.
[37:10] Speaker 3: Next.
[37:10] Speaker 4: On Our Town, Chapter 3.
[37:13] Speaker 3: Wanted.
[37:15] Speaker 9: Young men to rebuild Western civilization.
[37:18] Speaker 3: Takeover sounds militaristic. Exhaustion. Guaranteed. I would just say organic growth. Conflict.
[37:24] Speaker 8: We didn't take them seriously in the beginning.
[37:26] Speaker 3: Guaranteed.
[37:27] Speaker 8: Back then, too, it was pretty fringe.
[37:30] Speaker 9: He was a joke.
[37:30] Speaker 6: Are you afraid of anything?
[37:32] Speaker 3: I'm afraid of me.
[37:33] Speaker 1: It certainly gives you a prescient vision of what this
[37:40] Speaker 1: could become.
[37:43] Speaker 4: Our Town is written and reported by me, Mara Benight,
[37:47] Speaker 4: and Susan Burfield. Rebecca Lacks is our senior producer. Ken
[37:51] Speaker 4: Armstrong edited the show with additional editing from Rebecca Lacks.
[37:55] Speaker 4: Original score and sound design by Alex Aguirre. Fact-checking by
[38:00] Speaker 4: Annika Robbins. Additional production and editorial support from Julia Weaver,
[38:05] Speaker 4: David Fox, and Laura Newcomb. Special thanks to Bloomberg's Alana Susnow,
[38:10] Speaker 4: Bob Blau, Kristen Powers, Anthony Mancini, the Big Take podcast team,
[38:14] Speaker 4: and Will Pearson at iHeart Podcasts. Our executive producer is
[38:19] Speaker 4: Nicole Beamsterborn.

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