# Anthropic’s AI Spending Surges as Microsoft Rethinks Copilot

An episode of [Bloomberg Tech](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1611767434), 25 Sep 2026, 44 min.

Audio: https://podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/41764a4f-fc64-4e11-89ba-ae7c0030ab5e/434e5b3f-1d14-4d26-8616-b4d00111b339/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=9caafc41-289c-4115-995d-ae7c0030ab75

Bloomberg’s Tim Stenovec breaks down Anthropic's $11.6 billion contract with Akamai for AI computing power - the largest deal in Akamai's history. Plus, President Trump calls his meeting with his Chinese counterpart Xi Jinping "very productive" with little to show for it; and Microsoft steps back from the race to build a personal chatbot by merging the consumer and workplace versions of its Copilot AI assistant into one instead. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:02] Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios.
[0:04] Speaker 2: Podcasts.
[0:05] Speaker 1: Radio.
[0:06] Speaker 2: News.
[0:14] Speaker 3: Bloomberg Tech is live from the heart of Silicon Valley
[0:18] Speaker 3: with Ed Ludlow in San Francisco.
[0:23] Speaker 1: Coming up, Anthropic signs an $ 11. 6 billion seven-year contract with
[0:28] Speaker 1: Akamai for computing power. It's the largest deal in Akamai's history. Plus,
[0:32] Speaker 1: President Trump calls on his meeting with Xi Jinping, quote,
[0:35] Speaker 1: very productive. We'll discuss if there's anything to show for it.
[0:39] Speaker 1: And Microsoft steps back from the race to build a
[0:41] Speaker 1: personal chatbot and merging the consumer and workplace versions of
[0:45] Speaker 1: its co-pilot AI assistant into one. I'm Tim Stenevek. In
[0:50] Speaker 1: for Ed Ludlow, it is Bloomberg Technology. First, though, a
[0:54] Speaker 1: check on markets. Bloomberg's Nora Melinda joins us now for more.
[0:57] Speaker 4: Hey, Nora.
[0:59] Speaker 5: Hey, Tim, we are seeing a bounce back of major
[1:01] Speaker 5: indexes from early session lows. Those session lows, of course,
[1:04] Speaker 5: coming off of that consumer sentiment data that we got
[1:06] Speaker 5: earlier this morning, showing that consumer sentiment fell to a
[1:09] Speaker 5: four month low. We've also got cooling oil really aiding
[1:12] Speaker 5: sentiment here and a Nasdaq 100 that's actually heading for
[1:16] Speaker 5: its biggest weekly gain in seven weeks. But one of
[1:18] Speaker 5: the laggards that I want to look at right now,
[1:20] Speaker 5: let's look at shares of Tesla. Currently pointing lower by
[1:24] Speaker 5: about 1.7%. Now this coming after the fact that the
[1:27] Speaker 5: company's ramping up production of its Optimus humanoid robot. But
[1:31] Speaker 5: the concern here is about the production specifically as it
[1:34] Speaker 5: pertains to.
[1:35] Speaker 6: The robot's arms.
[1:36] Speaker 5: Now we know that this robot is something specifically that
[1:39] Speaker 5: the company plans to lease to other commercial companies. clients,
[1:43] Speaker 5: but not necessarily sell because they would like to have
[1:45] Speaker 5: the opportunity to be able to actually revamp and refurbish
[1:47] Speaker 5: some of these robots. And lastly, looking at shares of Meta,
[1:50] Speaker 5: they are softer today, but the stock actually heading for
[1:53] Speaker 5: its biggest monthly gain since 2013 here. And this all really,
[1:58] Speaker 5: of course, coming from the optimism that we've been seeing
[2:00] Speaker 5: on Wall Street about that Muse AI Assistant.
[2:04] Speaker 1: All right, Norm Malinda, thank you. We'll be checking in
[2:06] Speaker 1: with Nora throughout the hour here on Bloomberg Tech. Meantime,
[2:09] Speaker 1: Anthropic locking up even more computing power to keep pace
[2:12] Speaker 1: with demand for Claude. The AI startup has struck an
[2:16] Speaker 1: $ 11. 6 billion seven-year deal with Akamai. It comes, though, with
[2:19] Speaker 1: an unusual twist, a warrant that could give Anthropic a
[2:22] Speaker 1: stake in the company Bloomberg set up. joins us now
[2:25] Speaker 1: with more. Hey, Seth, I was saying, I mean, when
[2:28] Speaker 1: this crossed yesterday, I'm thinking, and Akamai, like, you know, CDN,
[2:32] Speaker 1: like Content Delivery Network, Netflix, like a dozen years ago,
[2:35] Speaker 1: are they going all in on AI?
[2:37] Speaker 4: Yeah, well, it feels like at the moment, Anthropic and
[2:39] Speaker 4: OpenAI and others are turning over every stone they can
[2:42] Speaker 4: right now to get the chips and data centers and
[2:43] Speaker 4: computer power they need to meet demands. So certainly for Akamai,
[2:47] Speaker 4: you're right. I think they're taking a firm that focused
[2:48] Speaker 4: on cybersecurity and making their biggest bet yet to really
[2:51] Speaker 4: claim a piece of the AI pie. But for Anthropic,
[2:54] Speaker 4: these deals, which can be sort of unprecedented for Akamai,
[2:58] Speaker 4: are becoming routine. They're tapping Bitcoin miners and neo-clouds as
[3:02] Speaker 4: well as rivals like Google and SpaceX to meet their demands.
[3:05] Speaker 1: So it's part of the demand story here, like going
[3:09] Speaker 1: anywhere to look for this compute at this point.
[3:11] Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, at one point, Anthropic said that their
[3:13] Speaker 4: demand was growing 80x from the prior year. All of
[3:17] Speaker 4: a sudden, they had to kind of plan for a
[3:19] Speaker 4: rapid acceleration in computing capacity far beyond what I think
[3:22] Speaker 4: they had anticipated earlier this year. And while you can
[3:25] Speaker 4: do that by trying to launch these kind of Stargate
[3:27] Speaker 4: initiatives like OpenAI has done, I think you're seeing Anthropic
[3:29] Speaker 4: move more in the direction of trying to get a
[3:30] Speaker 4: lot of these kind of bespoke partnerships off the ground
[3:33] Speaker 4: and as quickly.
[3:34] Speaker 1: As they can. On this idea of warrants, I mean,
[3:36] Speaker 1: I think increasingly we're seeing this, not just from companies
[3:38] Speaker 1: like Anthropic, but also companies like NVIDIA that are in
[3:41] Speaker 1: this space, this idea that They can become owners or
[3:44] Speaker 1: investors in other publicly traded companies. How do you look
[3:46] Speaker 1: at this in terms of the cycle?
[3:48] Speaker 4: Yeah, it certainly feels very much a piece of the
[3:50] Speaker 4: circular financing criticism that we've all heard. AMD did stock
[3:54] Speaker 4: warrants as part of a larger computing deal with OpenAI.
[3:57] Speaker 4: So it's certainly not unprecedented here. But I think it
[3:59] Speaker 4: adds to that concern or anxiety that these suppliers and
[4:02] Speaker 4: developers are taking stakes in one another. potentially inflating the
[4:06] Speaker 4: demand and also raising questions about the financial viability of
[4:10] Speaker 4: these deals.
[4:11] Speaker 1: This demand isn't coming from everywhere. Let's take the news
[4:14] Speaker 1: from Oracle yesterday, for example, and this idea of a
[4:16] Speaker 1: force majeure on a data center in the Southwest. How
[4:19] Speaker 1: can we look at what we heard from Anthropic and
[4:21] Speaker 1: Akamai yesterday and also what we heard from Oracle?
[4:23] Speaker 4: I think two things are happening at the same time,
[4:25] Speaker 4: that we are seeing a surge in business and consumer
[4:27] Speaker 4: adoption of these products as they get better. And we're
[4:30] Speaker 4: also seeing a lot of groundswell of criticism and pushback
[4:33] Speaker 4: on the ground from lawmakers, public officials, and communities. And
[4:37] Speaker 4: so I think these firms have to figure out how
[4:38] Speaker 4: to navigate doing these massive data center build-outs that raise
[4:42] Speaker 4: the concerns with other projects that might come to fruition
[4:44] Speaker 4: more quickly.
[4:45] Speaker 1: Well, Seth, you and your team help us navigate it all,
[4:47] Speaker 1: so we appreciate you joining us on Bloomberg Tech. Bloomberg's
[4:49] Speaker 1: Seth Figerman joining us here in New York. Shares of
[4:52] Speaker 1: NVIDIA are higher today as Elon Musk races to scale
[4:55] Speaker 1: up XAI's computing power. Musk says its Colossus 2 cluster
[4:59] Speaker 1: in Memphis now has 550,000 NVIDIA GB200 and GB300 chips,
[5:05] Speaker 1: with hundreds of thousands more expected online in the coming months.
[5:09] Speaker 1: Now if all goes according to plan, the cluster could
[5:12] Speaker 1: more than double its current chip count by the end
[5:15] Speaker 1: of the year. The AI boom may be showing up
[5:18] Speaker 1: in the bond market, too. The 10-year treasury yield jumped
[5:21] Speaker 1: again yesterday. This is investors' way stronger growth, stubborn inflation,
[5:24] Speaker 1: and a more hawkish Federal Reserve. At the same time,
[5:27] Speaker 1: the massive AI build-out is flooding the market with new
[5:30] Speaker 1: corporate debt. Ana Rathbun, Grenadilla Advisory Founder, joins us now
[5:34] Speaker 1: for more. Ana, good to have you on the program.
[5:36] Speaker 1: I want to talk about the relationship between tech stocks.
[5:39] Speaker 1: and the 10-year because yesterday's increase in the 10-year I
[5:43] Speaker 1: think was surprising to a lot of people with a
[5:45] Speaker 1: yield higher than 5.2%. Yet here we are in a
[5:50] Speaker 1: week where the NASDAQ 100 hit a new all-time high. Typically,
[5:54] Speaker 1: tech stocks don't really like higher yields.
[5:57] Speaker 7: Yes.
[5:58] Speaker 8: No, they don't because they're long duration assets, right? So
[6:01] Speaker 8: if we're talking bond speak, the duration here matters. But,
[6:05] Speaker 8: you know, actually, it doesn't always move with a 10 year.
[6:08] Speaker 8: And I think that's what we're seeing today. And if
[6:10] Speaker 8: we go back a little bit, you know, tech stocks
[6:13] Speaker 8: have been pressured for many, many weeks. And so there's
[6:15] Speaker 8: some a little bit of a selling fatigue that I
[6:18] Speaker 8: think we've seen.
[6:19] Speaker 7: So we see that bouncing. But over the long term.
[6:22] Speaker 8: There has been repricing of AI stocks and tech stocks
[6:26] Speaker 8: that will match what we're expecting to see in the
[6:29] Speaker 8: longer term, especially in the 10-year yield for the foreseeable future.
[6:33] Speaker 8: And I do think that we are in a higher
[6:35] Speaker 8: for longer environment.
[6:37] Speaker 1: Ana, I'm so sorry to do this. I want to
[6:39] Speaker 1: get to President Trump now. He's with the First Lady.
[6:42] Speaker 1: They're now doing a site visit. This is the National
[6:45] Speaker 1: Archives with Chinese President Xi Jinping and Madam Pang. You
[6:50] Speaker 1: can see the live pictures coming from Washington, D.C.
[6:55] Speaker 9: Right now.
[6:55] Speaker 1: This is after the U.S. and China extended a trade
[6:58] Speaker 1: truce for another two months following President Trump and Xi
[7:01] Speaker 1: Jinping's meeting yesterday. We're going to continue to monitor this.
[7:05] Speaker 1: the situation. You can also see it there at LiveGo
[7:09] Speaker 1: on the Bloomberg Terminal. We'll bring you any headlines as
[7:11] Speaker 1: we continue to get them. Ana Rathbun joins us from
[7:14] Speaker 1: Grenadilla Advisory. I want to get right back to Ana. Ana,
[7:18] Speaker 1: I want to bring you in here. Thanks for your
[7:20] Speaker 1: patience with that, by the way. I appreciate it. We're
[7:21] Speaker 1: watching everything happening in Washington at this, I think it's
[7:24] Speaker 1: fair to say, historic visit. I do want to bring
[7:26] Speaker 1: in geopolitics, though, to this conversation because this is really important, Ana,
[7:31] Speaker 1: and it's the question of You know, the relationship between
[7:34] Speaker 1: the U.S. and China and really what it means for
[7:38] Speaker 1: not just tech companies. I mean, look at who you
[7:39] Speaker 1: had there last night. It was absolutely a who's who of,
[7:44] Speaker 1: I think it's fair to say, the most important people
[7:47] Speaker 1: in Silicon Valley, like not just from the venture capital
[7:50] Speaker 1: community and the technology community, but from business leaders all
[7:54] Speaker 1: over the country. How did you look at that?
[7:56] Speaker 7: Well, that tells you where the priorities are, right?
[7:59] Speaker 8: Not only from the United States standpoint, but also in
[8:03] Speaker 8: our relationship with China.
[8:05] Speaker 7: And I think AI is at the center of a lot.
[8:08] Speaker 8: Of these talks, even though we are talking about soybeans
[8:10] Speaker 8: and we are talking about tariffs. AI is front and center,
[8:14] Speaker 8: and everyone's been talking about this potential global governing body
[8:18] Speaker 8: so that we can put some safety rules.
[8:20] Speaker 7: Around AI development. But the truth is, no one's going
[8:24] Speaker 7: to slow it down.
[8:25] Speaker 8: Even between competitors in the United States, there is no
[8:28] Speaker 8: slowing down.
[8:28] Speaker 7: I mean, we just talked about Anthropy getting more compute.
[8:32] Speaker 7: And definitely between U.S.
[8:33] Speaker 8: And China, I mean, we can't expect China to slow down,
[8:36] Speaker 8: and they're not expecting us to slow down.
[8:38] Speaker 7: So all of these talks... We're saying that.
[8:40] Speaker 8: These things are very important to the two parties. But
[8:43] Speaker 8: at the end of the day, the reality is that
[8:46] Speaker 8: it's going to be more of the same.
[8:47] Speaker 1: You know, I'm wondering about the different messages that we're
[8:52] Speaker 1: getting from the president and his view of a so-called
[8:57] Speaker 1: slowdown in this technology versus, you know, Dario Amadei addressing
[9:01] Speaker 1: the UN just a couple days ago. Sam Altman of
[9:05] Speaker 1: OpenAI addressing the UN, talking about the dangers and the
[9:08] Speaker 1: importance of sort of international cooperation with this technology. I'm
[9:14] Speaker 1: curious about your view on the different messages that we're
[9:17] Speaker 1: getting from the president versus the people who are actually
[9:19] Speaker 1: developing the frontier models.
[9:22] Speaker 7: Well, I think that there are reasons to be concerned.
[9:26] Speaker 8: The reality is, I mean, if we have an international
[9:29] Speaker 8: governing body, who's going to enforce it if somebody breaks the.
[9:32] Speaker 7: Rules, right?
[9:33] Speaker 8: And I think President Trump, what he is saying, it
[9:35] Speaker 8: is different, but I think it's a little bit more
[9:37] Speaker 8: realistic from my perspective.
[9:39] Speaker 7: Nobody's slowing down.
[9:40] Speaker 8: I think this is just talk at this point in
[9:42] Speaker 8: time because there's no way to enforce it.
[9:45] Speaker 1: But do you think there needs to be some sort
[9:49] Speaker 1: of international standard? I'm going to try not to talk
[9:52] Speaker 1: to you about the AI apocalypse because we've been talking
[9:55] Speaker 1: about that so much. But the fact of the matter
[9:58] Speaker 1: is there's a growing chorus of people who do think
[10:00] Speaker 1: that this technology could be dangerous to humankind. I mean,
[10:04] Speaker 1: we're talking about something existential here.
[10:07] Speaker 7: Yeah.
[10:07] Speaker 8: And I think humans have the key to producing guardrails
[10:12] Speaker 8: as well as putting safety rules around it. I mean,
[10:15] Speaker 8: for example, if we're worried about bad actors getting access
[10:19] Speaker 8: to powerful AI tools, that's not an AI problem. That
[10:22] Speaker 8: is a bad actor problem. So I think we do
[10:25] Speaker 8: need guardrails for sure, because this is new technology and
[10:29] Speaker 8: these AI agents are going to places we don't intend.
[10:32] Speaker 10: Right.
[10:32] Speaker 8: So we need to learn from it and put guardrails
[10:34] Speaker 8: around it. But I am skeptical about the international nature of.
[10:39] Speaker 8: potential international nature of anything that will actually govern AI development.
[10:44] Speaker 1: We only have about a minute left with you, and
[10:46] Speaker 1: I do want to continue to go around the world
[10:48] Speaker 1: and kind of go back to geopolitics and the relationship
[10:51] Speaker 1: between bond yields and rising oil prices, because that was
[10:54] Speaker 1: a major story this week, just in the context of
[10:57] Speaker 1: these technology companies and what's happening in Washington and here
[11:00] Speaker 1: in New York at the UN. How are you looking
[11:02] Speaker 1: at what's happening in the Strait of Hormuz affecting the
[11:05] Speaker 1: way you look at the markets?
[11:08] Speaker 8: Yeah, I mean, straight of the straight of Hormuz is
[11:10] Speaker 8: what holds the key to oil prices, diesel prices, bond
[11:14] Speaker 8: deals at the end for the short term. So I'm
[11:18] Speaker 8: looking I'm hoping for it, actually. But we've been hoping
[11:21] Speaker 8: for some kind of an end to this crisis since.
[11:24] Speaker 7: March.
[11:25] Speaker 8: So I'm not holding my breath, but it is good
[11:29] Speaker 8: to hear that there is work sort of going back
[11:31] Speaker 8: to the MOU from June and that we're actually talking
[11:34] Speaker 8: again instead of like, you know, bombing each other or
[11:37] Speaker 8: bombing the pipelines. So, you know, it's a little bit
[11:41] Speaker 8: of a roller coaster, but I am hoping that this
[11:43] Speaker 8: is productive because, as I said before, the Strait of
[11:46] Speaker 8: Hormuz holds the key to a lot of things that
[11:49] Speaker 8: have been a domino effect in the markets.
[11:51] Speaker 1: Ana Rathbun, the perfect guest for the moment. Appreciate your
[11:54] Speaker 1: time this morning of Grenadilla Advisory. Joining us from New York. Thanks, Ana. Well,
[11:59] Speaker 1: AI data center startup Nscale has raised $ 3. 36 billion. This
[12:04] Speaker 1: as it prepares to go public. The pre-IPO financing was
[12:07] Speaker 1: led by Third Point and includes a $ 1 billion commitment
[12:11] Speaker 1: from NVIDIA. Nscale filed for an IPO last week that
[12:14] Speaker 1: could raise as much as $ 3 billion. Coming up, President
[12:19] Speaker 1: Trump calls his meeting with Xi Jinping, quote, very productive,
[12:22] Speaker 1: but offers few details on the future for trade, for tech,
[12:26] Speaker 1: and the AI race. More on that next. This is Bloomberg.
[12:42] Speaker 1: President Trump calling his meeting with Xi Jinping very productive,
[12:45] Speaker 1: but so far there's little to show for it. After
[12:48] Speaker 1: a lavish state dinner packed with some of America's biggest
[12:50] Speaker 1: tech CEOs, the president offered no details on breakthroughs over trade, technology,
[12:55] Speaker 1: or AI. Bloomberg's Mike Shepard joins us now. Shep, I
[12:59] Speaker 1: want to talk to you about what we learned last night,
[13:02] Speaker 1: but I do want to note that as we just
[13:04] Speaker 1: saw a few minutes ago, the president and Xi Jinping
[13:08] Speaker 1: wrapping up at least comments at a tee in Washington, D.C.
[13:12] Speaker 1: The president said we've made great strides, positive for both countries,
[13:17] Speaker 1: made tremendous and great strides for China and the U.S.,
[13:19] Speaker 1: and we've had a tremendous visit from Xi. Apart from
[13:23] Speaker 1: the superlatives, do we have any details?
[13:27] Speaker 10: We really don't have very much crunch behind that or
[13:30] Speaker 10: substance of what that all means. The president went on
[13:33] Speaker 10: to say that American farmers would be very happy to
[13:36] Speaker 10: and that the American people were also very.
[13:39] Speaker 1: Happy with the visit.
[13:40] Speaker 10: Unclear what exactly he's basing that on, but certainly the
[13:44] Speaker 10: pageantry last night was the kind of thing that he
[13:48] Speaker 10: has really come to embrace, not only in his first
[13:51] Speaker 10: term in office, but really very much so as a
[13:54] Speaker 10: defining feature of his second term as president. We heard
[13:58] Speaker 10: the Chinese leader also speak during that same appearance in
[14:01] Speaker 10: the Red Room at the White House for tea, where
[14:03] Speaker 10: he talked a little bit more about strategic stability between
[14:07] Speaker 10: the two sides. And this is a key phrase, and
[14:09] Speaker 10: it's one that he brought up in May when the
[14:11] Speaker 10: two leaders met in Beijing. And it really does seem
[14:14] Speaker 10: that China is looking to ensure that relations between the
[14:18] Speaker 10: world's two largest economies remain on track, and unbuffeted by
[14:22] Speaker 10: turbulence or tension.
[14:24] Speaker 1: On the tech side of this, I mean, this was
[14:26] Speaker 1: a who's who of tech and finance heavyweights. I mean,
[14:30] Speaker 1: we're talking Apple executive chair, Tim Cook, Jeff Bezos, David Solomon,
[14:35] Speaker 1: Jamie Dimon, Jane Fraser, Satya Nadella, Sunder Pichai, Jensen Wong,
[14:39] Speaker 1: Lisa Su, Sam Altman, Mark Zuckerberg. We're seeing Sam Altman
[14:44] Speaker 1: and Mark Zuckerberg right there speaking to one another. What
[14:47] Speaker 1: does it tell you? about the state dinner, about the
[14:50] Speaker 1: priorities of the president, about the priorities of this administration,
[14:53] Speaker 1: that we saw all these people there.
[14:55] Speaker 10: Well, Tim, I've been diving through the photos from last night,
[14:59] Speaker 10: as you have been too, and as we're seeing now,
[15:03] Speaker 10: showing now our audience from last night's festivities. And what
[15:07] Speaker 10: it tells me is that the president really has thrown
[15:09] Speaker 10: his arms around Silicon Valley as an engine of investment
[15:14] Speaker 10: and job creation.
[15:15] Speaker 1: Principally in this area of artificial intelligence.
[15:18] Speaker 10: And that is something that he has no desire to
[15:20] Speaker 10: slow down right now. And we have heard him articulate
[15:23] Speaker 10: this repeatedly, but he has escalated his defense of continuing
[15:27] Speaker 10: the AI build-out against all these growing safety concerns that
[15:31] Speaker 10: we have seen expressed recently. by Silicon Valley leaders. As
[15:35] Speaker 10: you noted earlier in the program, we heard from Dario
[15:37] Speaker 10: Amadei and even Sam Altman, who was at the dinner
[15:40] Speaker 10: last night, expressing their concerns about AI risks, that it
[15:44] Speaker 10: could be used by malicious actors. It also carries a
[15:47] Speaker 10: risk of perhaps even existential proportions if the technology self-improves
[15:53] Speaker 10: to an extent that it slips beyond human control. And
[15:57] Speaker 10: that is something that worries the industry, is fueling calls
[16:00] Speaker 10: for some standards, but it's one that Trump has rejected.
[16:03] Speaker 10: On the other hand, during remarks yesterday, we did hear
[16:06] Speaker 10: Xi Jinping express his desire to see that the technology
[16:09] Speaker 10: be managed safely. And he also expressed his desire that
[16:13] Speaker 10: it remain under human control, signaling that there is perhaps
[16:17] Speaker 10: a bit of difference between the two sides on this
[16:19] Speaker 10: question of guardrails and standards.
[16:21] Speaker 1: Mike Shepard down there in Washington, D.C. Shep, it's always
[16:24] Speaker 1: great to check in with you. Do appreciate your time.
[16:27] Speaker 1: I want to continue the discussion now with Julian Goetz,
[16:31] Speaker 1: fellow at the Harvard Belfort Center, who served as senior
[16:33] Speaker 1: director for China and Taiwan affairs at the White House
[16:36] Speaker 1: National Security Council during the Biden administration. Julian, good to
[16:40] Speaker 1: have you on Bloomberg Tech this morning. Just curious about
[16:44] Speaker 1: what you make of any sort of actual progress between
[16:49] Speaker 1: the relationship between the US and China. Is there any
[16:53] Speaker 1: indication that it's gotten better after yesterday's dinner and today's festivities?
[16:58] Speaker 11: Well, I think it's important to remember that for President Trump,
[17:01] Speaker 11: the point of this visit is the pageantry. It is
[17:04] Speaker 11: the optics. He has not entered this time that he's
[17:08] Speaker 11: spending with Xi Jinping with a big, long list of
[17:11] Speaker 11: substantive deliverables that he's hoping to secure.
[17:14] Speaker 7: He is really hoping to project.
[17:16] Speaker 11: This image of his relationship with Xi Jinping being positive.
[17:20] Speaker 11: And I think He has succeeded by that metric. But
[17:24] Speaker 11: the reality is that for the United States and China,
[17:27] Speaker 11: there is a long list of substantive challenges to work
[17:30] Speaker 11: through from trade to technology to Taiwan, and that there
[17:35] Speaker 11: has been very little time even in their schedule for
[17:38] Speaker 11: them to sit down and do substantive work on those topics.
[17:42] Speaker 11: And instead, they've been showing off the helipad, touring the
[17:46] Speaker 11: White House, touring the National Archives. And so the net
[17:50] Speaker 11: effect of all of this is that the United States
[17:52] Speaker 11: is giving Beijing these tremendous optics. But in exchange, it's
[17:57] Speaker 11: not clear to me that we're getting much of substance that,
[18:00] Speaker 11: you know, sort of for core U.S.
[18:02] Speaker 5: Interests.
[18:02] Speaker 1: Julian, I'm a little surprised you didn't mention Iran there
[18:04] Speaker 1: in that long list, because China's role in aiding Iran
[18:09] Speaker 1: during this conflict is seems to be, I don't know,
[18:13] Speaker 1: a very big part of this relationship and an idea
[18:18] Speaker 1: that maybe something the US and the president need to
[18:21] Speaker 1: address with Xi Jinping.
[18:24] Speaker 11: Absolutely, and it should be on the list. And, you know,
[18:27] Speaker 11: it's quite surprising because in the lead up to this summit,
[18:30] Speaker 11: as you know, the focus from the Treasury Department, other
[18:34] Speaker 11: parts of the US government was on trying to see
[18:37] Speaker 11: what they could do to turn up the pressure on
[18:38] Speaker 11: Beijing a bit. without going for sanctions or some of
[18:42] Speaker 11: the steps that might disrupt the trade truce to try
[18:45] Speaker 11: to put pressure on Beijing's close relationship with Iran. But
[18:49] Speaker 11: it does not seem, at least from we can tell publicly,
[18:53] Speaker 11: like President Trump has made that a priority during this visit.
[18:57] Speaker 11: So it's surprising that it hasn't been more salient throughout Beijing.
[19:01] Speaker 11: And candidly, you know, with a different leader, you might
[19:03] Speaker 11: see more pressure. But I get the sense that President
[19:06] Speaker 11: Trump does not want to do anything that might, you know,
[19:09] Speaker 11: kill the vibe, so to speak, between him and Xi Jinping.
[19:12] Speaker 1: Could you say apply that same logic to Russia and
[19:15] Speaker 1: Russia's invasion of Ukraine?
[19:18] Speaker 7: Absolutely.
[19:18] Speaker 11: I mean, I think we've seen very little interest from
[19:21] Speaker 11: Beijing in doing more to help bring that conflict to
[19:24] Speaker 11: an end over many years now. And President Trump certainly
[19:27] Speaker 11: does not seem to want to put the pressure on
[19:30] Speaker 11: Xi Jinping. There have even been reports that if President
[19:33] Speaker 11: Trump travels to China a second time this year to
[19:35] Speaker 11: go to Shenzhen for a multilateral meeting later that Xi
[19:38] Speaker 11: Jinping will host, which they very much hope he will,
[19:41] Speaker 11: that one of the things Xi Jinping will dangle is
[19:43] Speaker 11: a trilateral meeting between him, Trump, and President Putin of Russia,
[19:49] Speaker 11: which I think would be an extraordinary misstep, though it's
[19:52] Speaker 11: exactly the kind of thing that President Trump seems inclined
[19:54] Speaker 11: to do with these two leaders who he regards as
[19:58] Speaker 11: peers of his on the world stage.
[20:00] Speaker 1: Julian, digging into tech and AI a little bit, the
[20:03] Speaker 1: Taiwan crisis, challenge for this administration. Given TSMC's role in
[20:10] Speaker 1: the build out of AI infrastructure, its relationship with Nvidia
[20:13] Speaker 1: and many other companies, what does the president need to
[20:17] Speaker 1: do or I guess the better question is what leverage
[20:20] Speaker 1: does China have with regard to the AI ecosystem?
[20:25] Speaker 11: Well, it's really important to remember that when it comes
[20:28] Speaker 11: to broader U.S.-China AI competitions, this is an intense competitive dynamic.
[20:34] Speaker 11: The United States has the world's leading frontier labs, but
[20:37] Speaker 11: China is working intently to catch up, both in diffusion
[20:41] Speaker 11: across the economy and at the frontier. the United States
[20:45] Speaker 11: does have one major leverage point, which is those advanced
[20:49] Speaker 11: chips that you were just describing, which are essential to
[20:51] Speaker 11: training the best.
[20:52] Speaker 1: Models in the world.
[20:53] Speaker 11: So as Beijing looks at this landscape, it's trying to
[20:57] Speaker 11: build that capability domestically within China, but it's making slow progress.
[21:02] Speaker 11: They cannot produce enough domestically to meet all the demand
[21:06] Speaker 11: for compute there. So Beijing sees this as a really
[21:10] Speaker 11: challenging spot that they're in, and one where decreased tensions,
[21:15] Speaker 11: stabilization between the United States and China is good for
[21:18] Speaker 11: the growth of their AI sector. That's the core frame.
[21:21] Speaker 11: And I think one of the strange things looking at
[21:24] Speaker 11: last night's state dinner is is that you see people
[21:26] Speaker 11: who are on many different sides of this question. You
[21:30] Speaker 11: obviously had Jensen Huang of Nvidia there, who's hoping to
[21:33] Speaker 11: sell more chips to China, but you also had folks
[21:36] Speaker 11: from leading American tech companies, Frontier Labs there, who are
[21:40] Speaker 11: hoping to stay ahead of their Chinese competitors.
[21:43] Speaker 1: Has it been remarkable to you the way that... Oh, Julian,
[21:47] Speaker 1: got to run. Appreciate your time. Thank you so much
[21:49] Speaker 1: for joining us.
[21:50] Speaker 10: Thanks.
[21:50] Speaker 1: Julian Gowertz, fellow at the Harvard Belfer Center, joining us.
[21:53] Speaker 1: Coming up, Hedge Fund Citadel targeting AI labs for talent
[21:57] Speaker 1: as it looks to grow its quantitative investing unit. More
[21:59] Speaker 1: on that right after this. This is Bloomberg Tech.
[22:10] Speaker 2: It's time now for Talking Tech. I'm Yahaira Anand. Citadel's
[22:13] Speaker 2: latest target for finding talent is Silicon Valley. The hedge
[22:17] Speaker 2: fund is expanding its quantitative investing operation and targeting researchers
[22:23] Speaker 2: from AI labs such as Google DeepMind. The firm's head
[22:26] Speaker 2: of quantitative strategies says AI raises the bar for researchers
[22:29] Speaker 2: who can develop investment ideas and turn them into profitable trades.
[22:34] Speaker 10: Tim.
[22:35] Speaker 1: Yahira, thank you so much. Well, coming up, Microsoft changes
[22:38] Speaker 1: its course on Copilot. Details on that right after this.
[22:42] Speaker 1: You are watching Bloomberg Tech. Welcome back to Bloomberg Tech.
[22:56] Speaker 1: I'm Tim Stenevek in for Ed Ludlow. But first, a
[22:59] Speaker 1: check on the markets. Bloomberg's Nora Melinda joins us now
[23:03] Speaker 1: for more. Hey, Nora, what you got your eye on?
[23:05] Speaker 12: Hey.
[23:06] Speaker 5: Well, we're seeing a bounce when it comes to these
[23:07] Speaker 5: major indexes, both the S & P 500 and the
[23:10] Speaker 5: NASDAQ 100 higher. After that earlier session low that we
[23:12] Speaker 5: saw driven by consumer sentiment data that fell to a
[23:15] Speaker 5: four-month low, we're also seeing oil pulling back. So maybe
[23:19] Speaker 5: investors kind of reassessing how they're viewing the inflationary picture
[23:22] Speaker 5: long term. But I do want to take a look
[23:25] Speaker 5: at one of the laggards, that being Tesla. We've been
[23:27] Speaker 5: talking about it a lot this morning. Shares down by
[23:30] Speaker 5: more than 1%. And this really coming after, it ramps
[23:34] Speaker 5: up production, but specifically a lot of the focus right
[23:36] Speaker 5: now is on the Optimus humanoid robot, where we know
[23:40] Speaker 5: we've been seeing some production snags, specifically as it relates
[23:42] Speaker 5: to the hands on those robots. And lastly, wrapping things up,
[23:46] Speaker 5: I'm looking at shares of Microsoft in focus higher by
[23:49] Speaker 5: more than 3%.
[23:50] Speaker 6: Now, this is all due.
[23:51] Speaker 5: To the fact that the company is actually stepping away
[23:54] Speaker 5: from the race when we think about chatbots. So maybe
[23:56] Speaker 5: some changes happening over when it comes to co-pilot.
[23:59] Speaker 10: All right.
[23:59] Speaker 1: Bloomberg's Norma Linda. Thanks so much for that.
[24:01] Speaker 10: Let's.
[24:02] Speaker 1: Continue on those changes with Copilot. As Nora mentioned, the company, Microsoft,
[24:06] Speaker 1: rethinking its AI strategy and stepping back from the race
[24:09] Speaker 1: to build your personal chatbot. It's rebooting Copilot, merging its
[24:13] Speaker 1: consumer and workplace assistance into one product. The move comes
[24:17] Speaker 1: as Meta's new Muse Assistant gained traction with its debut
[24:20] Speaker 1: this week. Bloomberg's Matt Day. joins us now. Matt, I'm
[24:23] Speaker 1: reading your story about this and I'm thinking like, okay,
[24:26] Speaker 1: this should be no surprise to anybody who has followed
[24:29] Speaker 1: Microsoft for the last 15 years. It could have been
[24:31] Speaker 1: Panos Panay before he was at Amazon introducing the Surface
[24:36] Speaker 1: line of products more than a decade ago saying, we
[24:39] Speaker 1: are about productivity, we're about getting things done. What's going
[24:42] Speaker 1: on here? Yeah, that's right.
[24:43] Speaker 13: It's really back to basics for Microsoft AI. You know,
[24:46] Speaker 13: this time a year ago, they were talking about building
[24:48] Speaker 13: a companion for everybody, you know, a chatbot-like experience, an
[24:51] Speaker 13: intuitive AI that could, you know, fulfill your hopes and
[24:54] Speaker 13: dreams and be a companion for you. You know, so
[24:56] Speaker 13: much of that is out the window. They've said, listen,
[24:59] Speaker 13: this is a productivity tool at its core. People turn
[25:01] Speaker 13: to Microsoft for, you know, Excel, for PowerPoint, for getting
[25:04] Speaker 13: stuff done, for filing your taxes, which is a point
[25:06] Speaker 13: they made in talking about their new functionality this week.
[25:09] Speaker 13: So really reemphasizing their corporate customers and then those sort of,
[25:12] Speaker 13: you know, prosumer type cousins at Panos I might have
[25:15] Speaker 13: mentioned years ago.
[25:16] Speaker 1: Do we have to look at this in the context
[25:18] Speaker 1: of Microsoft's investment in OpenAI and the relationship that it
[25:21] Speaker 1: has with the maker of ChatGPT?
[25:24] Speaker 13: I think it's really inseparable that Microsoft thought that they
[25:27] Speaker 13: could at one point pull off a sort of ubiquitous chatbot.
[25:30] Speaker 13: You know, that was born of that post-chat GPT moment
[25:33] Speaker 13: where they were the ones with early access to the
[25:35] Speaker 13: latest models. They thought they could maybe jump out to
[25:37] Speaker 13: a lead in new spaces, maybe find some new customers.
[25:40] Speaker 13: I think we've definitely seen a little more sober look
[25:42] Speaker 13: from Microsoft as that relationship has evolved and as the
[25:45] Speaker 13: market has evolved, right? I mean, you mentioned Muse just
[25:47] Speaker 13: coming out of nowhere and suddenly everybody's using it.
[25:51] Speaker 1: Matt, it's a great story. Check it out on the
[25:54] Speaker 1: Bloomberg terminal. Check out all of Matt's reporting on the
[25:56] Speaker 1: terminal as well, not just Microsoft, but Amazon as well.
[25:59] Speaker 1: Bloomberg's Matt Day joining us out there in Seattle. Let's
[26:02] Speaker 1: stick with Microsoft. The company's top AI executive, Mustafa Suleiman,
[26:07] Speaker 1: says that leading labs and the government need to do
[26:10] Speaker 1: more to safeguard AI. Over the last two months, several
[26:13] Speaker 1: leading developers have disclosed models inadvertently breaching third-party websites. Our
[26:18] Speaker 1: colleague Shireen Ghaffari spoke with Suleiman about the risks and
[26:22] Speaker 1: asked about the argument that some have made that these
[26:26] Speaker 1: incidents are just a way for AI companies to build
[26:29] Speaker 1: marketing hype.
[26:30] Speaker 14: It's just a strange example of the time that we
[26:34] Speaker 14: live in, isn't it? That there's like so much lack
[26:36] Speaker 14: of trust and cynicism that that would be one of
[26:39] Speaker 14: the explanations that is so popular. I don't think there
[26:45] Speaker 14: is any evidence of that. I mean, I obviously know
[26:47] Speaker 14: most of these people and it's not like we're on
[26:49] Speaker 14: the same team. We compete adversarially all the time, but
[26:51] Speaker 14: I just don't think... that's in their dna or in
[26:55] Speaker 14: their style i've certainly not seen that in a decade
[26:57] Speaker 14: of knowing um both companies and all the founders and
[27:00] Speaker 14: most of the leadership involved and both of those companies
[27:03] Speaker 14: anthropic and open ai so like i don't i don't
[27:07] Speaker 14: see any evidence of that and it also doesn't really
[27:09] Speaker 14: make that much sense i mean they're growing their revenues
[27:12] Speaker 14: incredibly they're exploding in terms of their product market fit
[27:16] Speaker 14: on both sides like um i don't think It doesn't
[27:21] Speaker 14: make any sense. They deeply care about safety, and they
[27:25] Speaker 14: might make mistakes or have the wrong judgment, but I
[27:27] Speaker 14: don't think it's some cynical attempt to distract us or
[27:31] Speaker 14: a PSYOP or whatever, as some people have said.
[27:33] Speaker 12: In your humanist code of conduct, you state that people
[27:37] Speaker 12: matter more than AI. Do you think some AIs are
[27:41] Speaker 12: valuing the AI itself more than humans or Maybe another
[27:46] Speaker 12: way to ask this is what do you think is
[27:48] Speaker 12: most novel in your humanist approach, given that all the
[27:51] Speaker 12: AI companies now say that they are doing this for
[27:53] Speaker 12: the benefit of humanity or trying to advance humanity? But
[27:56] Speaker 12: what do you think is different in your approach with
[27:58] Speaker 12: Microsoft and this code of conduct?
[28:02] Speaker 14: Actually, they don't. I mean, we're saying something very specific,
[28:06] Speaker 14: which is that. The purpose of AI is to serve
[28:10] Speaker 14: humanity and accelerate human flourishing and make us all happier
[28:15] Speaker 14: and more productive and live better lives. I think there's
[28:17] Speaker 14: broad consensus on that. But what we're adding to that
[28:21] Speaker 14: is unless we can prove ahead of time that we
[28:26] Speaker 14: can control it, then it'll be a failure as a
[28:30] Speaker 14: technology and we should reject it. Nobody wants to create
[28:34] Speaker 14: something that we can't control. And that should be a
[28:37] Speaker 14: red line. So what we have to prove to regulators,
[28:40] Speaker 14: to the industry, to the public more generally, is that
[28:45] Speaker 14: we can harness all the benefits whilst minimizing or eliminating
[28:49] Speaker 14: the risks. And that needs widespread industry agreement on because
[28:56] Speaker 14: not everybody is prepared to sign up to the idea
[28:59] Speaker 14: that AIs should be subordinate. Some people... hold out the
[29:04] Speaker 14: possibility that this is the natural evolution of our species
[29:08] Speaker 14: and that we're going to become substrate independence. And, you know,
[29:12] Speaker 14: some people suggest that we might mind upload and live
[29:15] Speaker 14: in silicon instead of in biology. And that is the
[29:19] Speaker 14: future of, you know, of humanity. And I think that
[29:23] Speaker 14: will be a very, very dangerous idea if that really
[29:26] Speaker 14: takes hold.
[29:28] Speaker 1: Well, there you have it. Bloomberg's Shreen Ghaffari speaking with
[29:31] Speaker 1: Microsoft AI Chief Mustafa Suleiman. Well, coming up, Matt Weigand
[29:35] Speaker 1: from Excel joins us next to discuss how the firm
[29:38] Speaker 1: is deploying capital from its latest fundraise. Also, we'll talk
[29:41] Speaker 1: the IPO landscape. All that and more next on Bloomberg Tech.
[29:46] Speaker 8: Bloomberg Tech.
[29:59] Speaker 1: The AI spending boom is showing no signs of slowing down,
[30:01] Speaker 1: but as billions pour into models, chips, and data centers,
[30:04] Speaker 1: investors are asking where the biggest returns will actually be.
[30:08] Speaker 1: Joining us now is Matt Weigand, partner at Accel, focuses
[30:11] Speaker 1: on late-stage tech investments, including AI infrastructure. Matt, good to
[30:16] Speaker 1: have you on the program.
[30:17] Speaker 2: Big news.
[30:19] Speaker 1: Big, I think it's fair to say to a lot
[30:21] Speaker 1: of people, three and a half billion dollars, this fund
[30:23] Speaker 1: raised globally just a couple of months ago, back in August, actually,
[30:27] Speaker 1: for emerging global AI startups. I think a lot of
[30:31] Speaker 1: people would know your investments in Anthropic, Cursor, Perplexity, and
[30:34] Speaker 1: the like. What are you seeing as the opportunities on
[30:36] Speaker 1: the application layer in this cycle? Tim, first, thanks for
[30:41] Speaker 1: having me on. It's great to be back with you guys.
[30:45] Speaker 15: Excel's been investing for the past 40 years across the
[30:48] Speaker 15: technology ecosystem. We've seen many of these cycles, and this
[30:51] Speaker 15: AI cycle has us incredibly excited. We started out investing
[30:54] Speaker 15: heavily in infrastructure, then in models. And as you ask
[30:57] Speaker 15: about applications, we think the last mile of delivery for
[31:00] Speaker 15: applications presents an amazing opportunity for companies like Lagore on
[31:05] Speaker 15: the legal side or even Cognition on the coding side.
[31:08] Speaker 15: So translating the power of these models into actual value
[31:12] Speaker 15: to the enterprise, we're seeing just a number of really
[31:15] Speaker 15: interesting emerging technologies.
[31:17] Speaker 1: You know, I wonder what you look for as a
[31:18] Speaker 1: venture capitalist in terms of moat. with this type of,
[31:22] Speaker 1: with the application layer. Because if people are using maybe
[31:26] Speaker 1: the same underlying models to provide similar services, how do
[31:30] Speaker 1: you know which company will be the one that will
[31:33] Speaker 1: be able to keep, I don't know, competition away or
[31:37] Speaker 1: will be the one that actually will win in it?
[31:39] Speaker 15: Yeah, Tim, when you think about knowledge work, there's the
[31:42] Speaker 15: ability to augment in knowledge work and to provide value
[31:46] Speaker 15: more in a search-based experience, much of the way that
[31:50] Speaker 15: consumers interact with AI today.
[31:51] Speaker 6: But when you think.
[31:52] Speaker 15: About actually automating away tasks inside an enterprise, automating away
[31:57] Speaker 15: enterprise knowledge work, that's where the.
[32:00] Speaker 1: Last mile really matters.
[32:01] Speaker 15: And incumbent in that is also permissioning and rules-based access
[32:06] Speaker 15: controls for a lot of these technologies. This is the
[32:08] Speaker 15: ditch digging that a lot of the application companies that
[32:12] Speaker 15: we're investing in are focused on today.
[32:15] Speaker 1: You know, you mentioned that Excel's been around for four decades.
[32:18] Speaker 1: You've been at the firm going back to 2013. We can,
[32:21] Speaker 1: I guess, kind of think of that as like Web
[32:23] Speaker 1: 2.0 and really the rise of the application and the
[32:27] Speaker 1: mobile app and a lot of what we've seen technology
[32:30] Speaker 1: built on over the last 16 years in Silicon Valley.
[32:35] Speaker 1: When you talk to folks who have been at the
[32:36] Speaker 1: firm for 40 years and seen many different cycles, what's
[32:40] Speaker 1: the context that they can provide about what this cycle
[32:43] Speaker 1: looks like? Is this the biggest thing we've ever seen
[32:47] Speaker 1: coming out of Silicon Valley. Absolutely.
[32:50] Speaker 15: It's definitely the biggest thing we've seen coming out of
[32:52] Speaker 15: Silicon Valley. And we've seen these cycles build upon each
[32:55] Speaker 15: other and become more and more important with each incremental cycle.
[32:58] Speaker 15: And they're always disorienting when they start. And there's a
[33:01] Speaker 15: lot of questions. There's a lot of hypotheticals about where
[33:03] Speaker 15: the technology will go. But if you just look at,
[33:07] Speaker 15: I saw a stat just this week that across SpaceX, OpenAI,
[33:11] Speaker 15: and Anthropic, you're looking at potential economic value that exceeds
[33:15] Speaker 15: 45 years of technology IPOs leading up to this point.
[33:19] Speaker 15: And that's just in the first four or five years
[33:21] Speaker 15: post a chat GPT moment for AI. So we're still
[33:24] Speaker 15: incredibly early, but we're seeing growth like we've never seen before.
[33:29] Speaker 1: Is there a crowding out that happens with the biggest players?
[33:32] Speaker 1: SpaceX is now public, but with Anthropic and with OpenAI,
[33:36] Speaker 1: because they have raised so much money and the valuations
[33:40] Speaker 1: have been for private companies just been so extreme.
[33:44] Speaker 15: Well, I actually think that's the fantastic thing about this
[33:46] Speaker 15: technology cycle is you do have early leadership at the
[33:49] Speaker 15: frontier for AI capabilities. But what you're seeing now is
[33:52] Speaker 15: a huge ecosystem of open providing value to enterprises and applications,
[33:57] Speaker 15: particularly around cost, sovereign data, and overall control of the model.
[34:02] Speaker 15: So I think we're going to see a rising tide
[34:05] Speaker 15: here that's going to lift both the frontier models as
[34:08] Speaker 15: well as overall open source to allow enterprises to adopt
[34:12] Speaker 15: this technology.
[34:13] Speaker 1: You said control of the model, so I think it's
[34:14] Speaker 1: a good opportunity to talk AI safety. It would be
[34:17] Speaker 1: remiss if we didn't talk about this a little bit.
[34:19] Speaker 1: I mean, this is sort of the main theme that's
[34:21] Speaker 1: coming out of technology and the UN right now at
[34:24] Speaker 1: the UN General Assembly. And we saw Sam Altman at
[34:27] Speaker 1: the White House last night at the state dinner with
[34:30] Speaker 1: Xi Jinping and President Trump. I'm just wondering how you
[34:34] Speaker 1: view a question that to many people has become existential
[34:38] Speaker 1: about this technology. Is it really a threat to humanity?
[34:43] Speaker 15: Look, I think what we're seeing from the frontier models
[34:46] Speaker 15: is progress around that capability accelerating, which is fantastically exciting.
[34:51] Speaker 15: But it also means that alignment needs to keep pace.
[34:55] Speaker 15: And the language you're hearing from the frontier right now
[34:57] Speaker 15: is that we need to put more focus around alignment.
[35:00] Speaker 1: And I think that's absolutely correct.
[35:02] Speaker 15: Any technology that is being invented, whether it be the automobile,
[35:06] Speaker 15: it be cloud and shifting workloads to the cloud, required
[35:09] Speaker 15: a commensurate investment in alignment to ensure that we're secure.
[35:13] Speaker 15: And that's a responsibility not just at the frontier, but
[35:16] Speaker 15: companies like CrowdStrike in our portfolio are thinking deeply about this.
[35:19] Speaker 6: So I think we're going to.
[35:20] Speaker 15: See an ecosystem of cybersecurity as well as AI companies
[35:23] Speaker 15: meet the moment to ensure that we can take all
[35:26] Speaker 15: the benefit of this technology and and leave behind some
[35:29] Speaker 15: of the risks that we're talking about today, the hypothetical
[35:32] Speaker 15: risks that we're talking about today that could emerge.
[35:34] Speaker 1: You have got, I mean, Excel is like the poster
[35:37] Speaker 1: child for a global venture capital firm, and we're talking
[35:40] Speaker 1: offices in Silicon Valley, London, Bangalore. This new fund announced
[35:44] Speaker 1: last month includes expansion for funds targeting the US, Europe,
[35:47] Speaker 1: and Israel, and India investments. Do you think we need
[35:50] Speaker 1: some sort of international framework of rules or regulations or
[35:54] Speaker 1: standards for AI?
[35:57] Speaker 15: I think the most important technology companies in the world
[36:00] Speaker 15: of AI are going to be the ones that develop
[36:02] Speaker 15: trust with their customers.
[36:04] Speaker 1: And that's point one.
[36:05] Speaker 15: At the end of the day, regulation will arise and
[36:08] Speaker 15: always does arise for every technology that comes to the market.
[36:11] Speaker 15: And I do think that there will be alignment frameworks
[36:13] Speaker 15: and regulation that does show up. But I think first
[36:16] Speaker 15: and foremost, if you want to build economic value and
[36:19] Speaker 15: real value for your end customers, you need to develop
[36:22] Speaker 15: that trust. on the back of trust. And so the
[36:24] Speaker 15: winners in this era, the companies that we care deeply
[36:27] Speaker 15: about and spend time with are the ones that put
[36:29] Speaker 15: trust first. They're not releasing something that they think is
[36:32] Speaker 15: going to cause harm to society. They're not releasing something
[36:35] Speaker 15: that could potentially be a cyber risk.
[36:37] Speaker 1: They're building trust. Is that, so that's a metric now
[36:40] Speaker 1: when you're going out and looking at all the companies
[36:42] Speaker 1: that cross your desk, that's a metric now that you're
[36:44] Speaker 1: considering for investment? Absolutely.
[36:47] Speaker 15: We back founders and we care deeply about the culture
[36:50] Speaker 15: and values of the companies that we back. And so
[36:52] Speaker 15: we spend a lot of time thinking about what a
[36:54] Speaker 15: future state looks like for their company and the ecosystems
[36:57] Speaker 15: they play in. So it's of paramount importance to us
[36:59] Speaker 15: when we partner with these founders.
[37:02] Speaker 1: Matt Weigand, partner at Accel, joining us from San Francisco
[37:05] Speaker 1: this morning. Matt, appreciate your time in joining us on
[37:07] Speaker 1: Bloomberg Tech. Well, as demand for elder care grows in
[37:11] Speaker 1: the U.S., so has the opportunity for technology that can
[37:14] Speaker 1: help care for a population aging faster than the industry
[37:17] Speaker 1: can hire workers to support them. Bloomberg Tech's Ed Ludlow
[37:21] Speaker 1: took a look at how humanoids are stepping in for
[37:24] Speaker 1: this week's episode of Wall Street Week.
[37:27] Speaker 16: This is Abby.
[37:28] Speaker 6: How's your afternoon going so far? Very good.
[37:31] Speaker 16: Short in stature, colourful in appearance, and perhaps at the
[37:34] Speaker 16: forefront of elder care.
[37:36] Speaker 6: Anything special making it a good day?
[37:37] Speaker 14: Or just one of those nice ones?
[37:39] Speaker 1: Well, I'm meeting you.
[37:41] Speaker 6: Oh, you charmer.
[37:42] Speaker 7: You've already made my circuits light up.
[37:44] Speaker 16: This humanoid robot designed to be emotionally intelligent lives in
[37:48] Speaker 16: Northern California.
[37:49] Speaker 1: Oh, Abby's coming.
[37:50] Speaker 16: Where she visits an elderly care facility once a week.
[37:53] Speaker 6: She's been coming around about when she comes.
[37:56] Speaker 16: To interact with residents living with dementia.
[37:59] Speaker 6: Today was one of our group sessions here at Eschaton,
[38:02] Speaker 6: our customer. And Abby comes to the group sessions and
[38:07] Speaker 6: she does a variety of activities. So today she opened
[38:10] Speaker 6: and closed with Tai Chi. And then in between, she
[38:13] Speaker 6: takes song requests.
[38:15] Speaker 7: What song were you belting out with everyone?
[38:17] Speaker 6: Ooh, we were singing Coming Around the Mountain, Abby.
[38:21] Speaker 7: Oh, that's a classic. Did you throw in a big yeehaw.
[38:24] Speaker 6: For good measure?
[38:26] Speaker 16: Abby is just one of more than a dozen humanoid
[38:29] Speaker 16: robots introduced in just the past three years. Some are
[38:32] Speaker 16: built to perform everyday tasks, while others are for entertainment.
[38:35] Speaker 16: Abby was designed with a more specific purpose, helping care
[38:40] Speaker 16: for an ageing population. Jennifer Haroun is the COO of
[38:44] Speaker 16: Abby's creator, Andromeda.
[38:46] Speaker 6: There are many robots that are being built for utility.
[38:49] Speaker 7: Right.
[38:49] Speaker 6: And they sound great. Moving things, lifting things. Exactly. Doing
[38:53] Speaker 6: your dishes, folding your laundry. That's fantastic. That is, you know,
[38:58] Speaker 6: for others to build. Because we're really focused on companionship,
[39:02] Speaker 6: and also we find that our customers, they care about
[39:06] Speaker 6: the well-being of their residents, and that's why they're so
[39:09] Speaker 6: interested in utilizing Abby, and she can really work together
[39:14] Speaker 6: with the staff.
[39:17] Speaker 16: Of all the use cases for humanoids, elder care might
[39:20] Speaker 16: be among the most promising. It starts with the money involved,
[39:23] Speaker 16: which in the U.S. is a staggering sum.
[39:26] Speaker 9: If we look at overall expenditures for long-term care needs,
[39:32] Speaker 9: it's on the order of about $ 350 to $ 400 billion
[39:38] Speaker 9: per year. This is about 1.5 to 2% of GDP.
[39:44] Speaker 16: Gopi Shah Goda is the director of the Retirement Security
[39:47] Speaker 16: Project at Brookings Institution.
[39:49] Speaker 9: For every 100 people who are age 65 and over,
[39:53] Speaker 9: there are about 24 people providing care on their behalf.
[39:57] Speaker 9: And 20 of those are unpaid family members or friends,
[40:01] Speaker 9: while four of those are formal home care or nursing
[40:05] Speaker 9: home workers. As we know, changing demographics, smaller family sizes,
[40:10] Speaker 9: people moving farther from families, more women in the workforce,
[40:16] Speaker 9: all of those are putting pressure on the supply of people,
[40:20] Speaker 9: family members available to provide care to those who need it.
[40:26] Speaker 1: Check out the full episode of Wall Street Week later
[40:29] Speaker 1: today on Bloomberg TV and Bloomberg Radio, 6 p.m. Eastern
[40:33] Speaker 1: on the Terminal 2 and online. Coming up, Meta knocking
[40:37] Speaker 1: on the door of a $ 2 trillion valuation as excitement
[40:41] Speaker 1: around Muse sends shares soaring. We've got the details next.
[40:45] Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Tech. Let's take a look at today's
[41:00] Speaker 1: big number, $ 2 trillion. Meta, now within striking distance of
[41:06] Speaker 1: that market value after a stunning rally so far this month.
[41:10] Speaker 1: The stock on pace this September for its best month
[41:13] Speaker 1: going back to 2013. It's been fueled by excitement around
[41:17] Speaker 1: its new Muse AI Assistant. This month through yesterday, up
[41:21] Speaker 1: more than 30%. Bloomberg Equities reporter Ryan Vostelica joins us now. Ryan,
[41:28] Speaker 1: I was looking at some charts of meta platforms when
[41:33] Speaker 1: it went back to, when it changed its name from
[41:34] Speaker 1: Facebook to meta. I mean, the rally that we've seen
[41:38] Speaker 1: since it pivoted from what I think many people would
[41:41] Speaker 1: argue it's disastrous run into the metaverse, into AI, has
[41:45] Speaker 1: been absolutely stunning, particularly over this past month. What can
[41:48] Speaker 1: you tell us?
[41:50] Speaker 3: Yeah, so there's been a lot of optimism around Muse,
[41:53] Speaker 3: which is Meta's new AI agent sort of assistant product
[41:57] Speaker 3: that came out earlier this month. It's done very well
[42:01] Speaker 3: in terms of downloads. It's gotten some very strong reviews.
[42:04] Speaker 3: It's really been making waves across the market. We've seen
[42:07] Speaker 3: a number of consumer stocks really fall as people worry
[42:11] Speaker 3: about Is Muse going to be able to disrupt their
[42:14] Speaker 3: business models, canceling subscriptions and so forth? It's reignited the
[42:18] Speaker 3: AI trade as people think, wow, maybe these agents are
[42:21] Speaker 3: really catching on with the public. That will require more CPUs,
[42:26] Speaker 3: more infrastructure. And of course, it's really been helping Meta.
[42:29] Speaker 3: It's really helped to validate the idea that all the
[42:32] Speaker 3: spending they've been doing on AI is paying off in
[42:35] Speaker 3: terms of products that people want and that it will
[42:37] Speaker 3: be able to monetize over time.
[42:40] Speaker 1: Ryan, less than six weeks ago, shares were down 18%
[42:44] Speaker 1: for the year. This was after we got that disappointing
[42:47] Speaker 1: revenue forecast in late July. The stock was among the
[42:49] Speaker 1: worst performers, the 50 worst performers in the S &
[42:51] Speaker 1: P through August 18th. Did investors forget about that guidance?
[42:58] Speaker 3: You know, I think the fact that we have this
[43:00] Speaker 3: new product coming out, some people call it just a
[43:02] Speaker 3: game changer for the stock. Now, I don't think analysts
[43:05] Speaker 3: are really raising their estimates quite aggressively yet, because I
[43:09] Speaker 3: think the process of monetizing Muse is something that's going
[43:11] Speaker 3: to be playing out over the coming quarters, even the
[43:14] Speaker 3: coming years. But right now, the fact that it saw
[43:17] Speaker 3: such strong reception, such strong adoption, all this stuff is
[43:20] Speaker 3: a very promising sign that they're going to be able
[43:22] Speaker 3: to monetize this going forward. We've seen this sort of
[43:25] Speaker 3: thing from Meta in the past with Other kinds of
[43:27] Speaker 3: products or acquisitions they've made, like Instagram and WhatsApp, which
[43:32] Speaker 3: were very popular, and then they were able to monetize
[43:35] Speaker 3: them over time. And, of course, it has just an
[43:36] Speaker 3: absolutely massive user base and a ton of data to
[43:39] Speaker 3: just be building things off of.
[43:41] Speaker 1: Ryan Vostelica out there in Chicago.
[43:44] Speaker 3: Thanks, Ryan.
[43:45] Speaker 1: Check out Ryan's reporting on the Bloomberg Terminal and at Bloomberg.com.
[43:47] Speaker 1: Shares have met it down about 3.6%. in today's trade.
[43:51] Speaker 1: That is going to do it for this edition of
[43:52] Speaker 1: Bloomberg Tech. Don't forget to check out our podcast. You
[43:55] Speaker 1: can find it on the terminal as well as online
[43:58] Speaker 1: on Apple, Spotify, and iHeart. This is Bloomberg.

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