# I Wanna Be A Cowgirl: Cora Hubbard, Lady Bandit

An episode of [Ridiculous Crime](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1608230191), 10 Feb 2026, 1 h 09 min.

Audio: https://podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/0b4bcc39-7ba2-453f-aaac-ae510011dd80/9a9ca525-9b54-4a0d-8f36-b3ec01697c2b/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=3a4c50f5-ff69-4807-aa26-ae510011dd8e

She was a legend of the Wild West, a self-made outlaw, iron hard as her six-shooter, yet delicate as a prairie butterfly. Cora Hubbard, Lady Bandit was a compelling mix of contradictions. And at one time she was nationally famous as the next great female outlaw. Her ambitions though were betrayed by the men whom she called her gang. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:00] Speaker 1: Ridiculous crime. It's a production of iHeartRadio.
[0:03] Speaker 2: There is Elizabeth.
[0:06] Speaker 3: I am how you doing? Look out? I'm good?
[0:09] Speaker 2: You are you good?
[0:10] Speaker 3: How you doing?
[0:11] Speaker 2: So? Do you know what's ridiculous? I do you know?
[0:14] Speaker 2: It's ridiculous.
[0:17] Speaker 4: Columbia outer wear like I'm more of like a cotopaxsy girl.
[0:22] Speaker 3: Ah nor face face Yeah, Columbia.
[0:28] Speaker 4: They did a mash up and someone sent a couple
[0:32] Speaker 4: like handful of people sent this to us. And I'm
[0:34] Speaker 4: looking on my iPad at a picture of this and.
[0:37] Speaker 3: It is nauseating.
[0:40] Speaker 2: Color me shocked.
[0:43] Speaker 4: And the the wording on this image the Big Games
[0:47] Speaker 4: Beer just dropped.
[0:50] Speaker 3: That's the wording on it.
[0:52] Speaker 4: Because they got together with Breakside Brewery to come up
[0:58] Speaker 4: with a beer called Nature Call Oh God. With Columbia sportswear,
[1:03] Speaker 4: you can enjoy the parts of nature. So it stands
[1:06] Speaker 4: to reason that we can even start with bear poop
[1:09] Speaker 4: and end up with something delectable. Introducing Nature Calls a
[1:14] Speaker 4: Big Game beer brewed by our friends at Breakside Brewery.
[1:18] Speaker 4: It's smooth and satisfying with notes of honey and huckleberry
[1:23] Speaker 4: Scoop yours at one of the locations below, or if
[1:26] Speaker 4: you're not lucky enough to be an organ, you can
[1:28] Speaker 4: sign up.
[1:29] Speaker 3: In case of a future release. Here's the picture.
[1:32] Speaker 2: No, I don't care.
[1:33] Speaker 4: It's a can of beer sitting in a pile of
[1:36] Speaker 4: bear poop.
[1:37] Speaker 2: What is up with all the stunt casting of things
[1:39] Speaker 2: and just make a good beer.
[1:41] Speaker 4: You know you missed out zir because they had darn
[1:44] Speaker 4: at Levi Stadium at the Super Bowl and you could
[1:47] Speaker 4: have gone and like chuggle.
[1:48] Speaker 3: Up beer or gone up to organ.
[1:51] Speaker 4: But whatever bear beer, you can sign I sent I
[1:54] Speaker 4: put your email in because it said can't make it
[1:57] Speaker 4: to the tailgate or break side brewery.
[1:59] Speaker 3: Top putting my email that sucks.
[2:02] Speaker 4: We'll probably make more one day, So sign up here
[2:04] Speaker 4: and we'll let you know about future drops.
[2:07] Speaker 3: So I signed you up. Thanks, You're welcome.
[2:09] Speaker 2: Like nobody makes a good product anymore to get attention,
[2:12] Speaker 2: They're like, no, no, we just do this crazy thing.
[2:15] Speaker 2: See this is like bear poop and beer.
[2:17] Speaker 3: Of course, why that makes me want it?
[2:19] Speaker 2: We want some bear poop beer poured into an old
[2:22] Speaker 2: used clown shoe.
[2:23] Speaker 4: I feel like if you found out the number of
[2:26] Speaker 4: places where I signed you up with your email address
[2:29] Speaker 4: don't eails it, you would absolutely lose it.
[2:33] Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm already doing. I'm halfway down that track.
[2:37] Speaker 3: You already have no idea of losing it your spam folded?
[2:43] Speaker 2: No, yeah, right, win us that word very loosely, so,
[2:51] Speaker 2: Elizabeth Dunn' you know what else is ridiculous? It doesn't
[2:55] Speaker 2: involve bears, poop or beer hit me, Okay. The stories
[2:59] Speaker 2: we tell ourselves versus the stories others tell about us. Okay,
[3:03] Speaker 2: especially if you're a bank robber.
[3:05] Speaker 3: Yeah, that's true, Elizabeth.
[3:06] Speaker 2: I thought you'd enjoyed this one. I made it special
[3:08] Speaker 2: for you today because, Yeah, today's story is about Cora Hubbard,
[3:13] Speaker 2: Lady Bandit. This is Ridiculous Crime, a podcast about absurd
[3:38] Speaker 2: and outrageous capers, heists, and cons. It's always ninety nine
[3:43] Speaker 2: percent murder free and one hundred percent ridiculous.
[3:47] Speaker 3: Ridiculous, elizabethar In order.
[3:50] Speaker 2: To dig into this one, we need to step back
[3:52] Speaker 2: in time. The year is eighteen ninety seven. Our modern
[3:56] Speaker 2: world is straining to be born. Although eighteen ninety seven
[3:59] Speaker 2: really is the beginning of a new era. I mean,
[4:01] Speaker 2: like you have, like Thomas Edison inventing the kinetoscope, which
[4:04] Speaker 2: is just the precursor to the film projector well and.
[4:07] Speaker 3: You're less than one hundred years away from point.
[4:09] Speaker 2: Break exactly, you know you have You're inside of a
[4:13] Speaker 2: century of the point of it.
[4:14] Speaker 3: Yes.
[4:15] Speaker 2: Now, at this point, since it's the beginning of a
[4:17] Speaker 2: new era, it's also the end of an old era. Yeah.
[4:22] Speaker 2: In the case of this story, the end of the
[4:23] Speaker 2: old era refers to the end of the wild West
[4:26] Speaker 2: and the era of cowboys and cowgirls.
[4:28] Speaker 3: I know you love that.
[4:29] Speaker 2: You know I do. Now there's a very physical indicator
[4:32] Speaker 2: for the end of this era, in particular one they
[4:35] Speaker 2: can be delineated by the discovery of oil. Oh really
[4:39] Speaker 2: in the Indian Territory. Interesting, Yeah, this all marks the
[4:43] Speaker 2: ends of the days of the Indian Territory.
[4:46] Speaker 4: Yeah.
[4:46] Speaker 2: On April fifteenth, eighteen ninety seven, in Indian Territory, in
[4:49] Speaker 2: the land of the Osage Indians, a huge new oil
[4:52] Speaker 2: boom starts with the discovery of major oil deposits. Because
[4:56] Speaker 2: before they've been in like Pennsylvania, Ohio, that area. Now
[4:58] Speaker 2: suddenly it's like, oh, the Permian Basin, but this is Oklahoma. Anyway.
[5:02] Speaker 2: Scorsese made a whole movie about this story called The
[5:05] Speaker 2: Killers of the Flower Moon. Check that out right now. Coincidentally,
[5:09] Speaker 2: one week and one day later, on April twenty third,
[5:11] Speaker 2: eighteen ninety seven, the US government sends something called the
[5:14] Speaker 2: Dawes Commission out to Indian Territory to sign an agreement
[5:18] Speaker 2: with members of the Choctaw and the Chickasaw nations. It creates,
[5:21] Speaker 2: basically the legal framework to create the state of Oklahoma
[5:25] Speaker 2: from the land formerly known or about to be formerly
[5:27] Speaker 2: known as the Indian Territory. And just like that, Indian
[5:30] Speaker 2: Territory would be no more. Elizabeth, that's the location for
[5:35] Speaker 2: today's tale.
[5:35] Speaker 3: I love it.
[5:36] Speaker 2: The land once known as Indian Territory. Now I won't
[5:38] Speaker 2: keep saying it, but do you know again about Indian Territory?
[5:43] Speaker 2: What do you mean?
[5:43] Speaker 3: Do I know about it?
[5:44] Speaker 2: Do you know why it exists? Why it's called That's
[5:48] Speaker 2: its whole vibe. It's story stuff, right, Yeah. So it
[5:53] Speaker 2: starts with Andrew Jackson, the Indian Removal Act, the Trail
[5:56] Speaker 2: of Teers, the forest, migration of the so called five
[5:58] Speaker 2: civilized tribes, which is the Cherokee, the Choctaw, the Chickasaw,
[6:02] Speaker 2: the Creek, Muskogee, and the Seminole tribes. Now the Indian Territories,
[6:07] Speaker 2: This vast expanse of land and The idea basically started
[6:10] Speaker 2: with Jefferson that moved through every president until Andrew Jackson's like,
[6:14] Speaker 2: let's actually physically march them at gunpoint to this place
[6:18] Speaker 2: and sequester the Natives from the east coast and the
[6:21] Speaker 2: south into what is at this point we would think
[6:25] Speaker 2: of as Oklahoma, but it's actually Iowa, Kansas, Nebraska, and Oklahoma.
[6:29] Speaker 2: Then eventually it shrinks its borders down into Oklahoma.
[6:31] Speaker 3: For boating areas.
[6:33] Speaker 2: Of those there was some good land in there, but
[6:36] Speaker 2: mostly it's not, I mean, not the best land. And
[6:39] Speaker 2: Oklahoma actually has some good land. I mean we've driven
[6:41] Speaker 2: through it, we've.
[6:41] Speaker 3: Seen yeah, yeah, when we do a little road trail.
[6:44] Speaker 2: Yeah. No, Indian Territory had not just been a land
[6:46] Speaker 2: for the Natives who were forced to live there, but
[6:48] Speaker 2: also became a hideout for wild West outlaws because it
[6:51] Speaker 2: was like this rather lawless land. It was technically not
[6:54] Speaker 2: even a US territory they called it that, but it
[6:56] Speaker 2: was basically a conglomeration of these nations. So there's sovereigns
[7:00] Speaker 2: inside of America. That makes sense. So speaking of the
[7:04] Speaker 2: outlaws that called the Indian nation their home, it brings
[7:07] Speaker 2: us to one of the most famous American Outlaws who
[7:09] Speaker 2: was a woman. Her name was Bell Starr. She was
[7:12] Speaker 2: a satellite of the James Younger Gang, as in Jesse
[7:15] Speaker 2: James and Frank James and the Younger brothers. In case
[7:18] Speaker 2: you don't know them, there's Jim, Cole, John and Bob.
[7:22] Speaker 2: So the James Younger Gang Elizabeth were former Confederates. They'd
[7:24] Speaker 2: written with Quantrill's raiders who'd fought this Gorilla War in
[7:28] Speaker 2: Missouri basically, which is on the border of the Indian territory,
[7:32] Speaker 2: so they got familiar with the area. And also, like
[7:35] Speaker 2: the tactics is what they call being bushwhackers, So imagine
[7:38] Speaker 2: them coming out of the woods, coming out of the
[7:39] Speaker 2: bushes and ambushing people and so forth. So the point is, though,
[7:44] Speaker 2: who's Bell Star Great Elizabeth?
[7:46] Speaker 3: When I ask good questions like that?
[7:48] Speaker 2: Mera May Bell Shirley was born in eighteen forty eight
[7:52] Speaker 2: in Carthage, Missouri. She was the black sheep of a
[7:55] Speaker 2: rather well off family. Her mother's full name was Elizabeth
[7:58] Speaker 2: Hatfield Shirley, as in the Hatfield McCoy few. She was
[8:02] Speaker 2: in the part of that family. So that's another part
[8:05] Speaker 2: of us history that's in the Bell Star past. But
[8:07] Speaker 2: she wasn't from, as they said, this backwards inbred family
[8:11] Speaker 2: as people assume from like I don't know the Warner
[8:12] Speaker 2: Brothers cartoons about the Hatfield. To McCoy's. She was born wealthy.
[8:16] Speaker 2: She even went to a prestigious school called the Carthage
[8:19] Speaker 2: Female Academy. That's where she learned to play piano. She
[8:22] Speaker 2: was given a classical education. And you know, we both
[8:25] Speaker 2: know how life has a way of going weird, right, Well,
[8:28] Speaker 2: it certainly did for Bell Starr. When her family settled
[8:31] Speaker 2: in Missouri, she first got mixed up with the Star Clan.
[8:34] Speaker 2: They were a Cherokee family. They stole horses and cattle.
[8:38] Speaker 2: They ran whiskey over the border in Indian Territory where
[8:40] Speaker 2: whiskey was illegal. They were essentially a nineteenth century crime family. Yeah,
[8:45] Speaker 2: and that's how Bell Star meets the James Younger gang
[8:48] Speaker 2: in the outlaw crime circles of the Indian Territory and Missouri.
[8:53] Speaker 2: So in eighteen eighty Bell Star marys well she was
[8:56] Speaker 2: still surely at this point, but she married Sam Starr
[8:58] Speaker 2: of the Cherokee clan, the Star Clan. She joins the
[9:01] Speaker 2: Star family, becomes Bell Star. Then she moves to Indian Territory.
[9:05] Speaker 2: That's where she becomes the most famous female outlaw of
[9:08] Speaker 2: the wild West era. As Bell Star, she provides these
[9:11] Speaker 2: like basically hideouts to cattle rustlers, horse thieves, whiskey bootleggers,
[9:15] Speaker 2: just all your running the mill criminals running around at
[9:18] Speaker 2: that time. Now, two years later, in eighteen eighty two,
[9:21] Speaker 2: both Sam and Bell Starr they are accused of horse theft,
[9:25] Speaker 2: which was a hangable offense in the West, as you know,
[9:28] Speaker 2: But since they weren't caught by a posse, they weren't
[9:30] Speaker 2: strung up and hung from the tallest tree in the county. Instead,
[9:33] Speaker 2: they're brought before Federal Judge Isaac Parker, aka the Hanging
[9:38] Speaker 2: Judge Parker. Oh yeah, all right, now in his courtroom
[9:41] Speaker 2: in Fort Smith. She's tried found guilty, but instead of
[9:44] Speaker 2: swinging at the end of a rope, as typical for
[9:46] Speaker 2: the hanging Judge, instead he sent her to the Federal
[9:49] Speaker 2: penitentiary in Detroit.
[9:51] Speaker 3: Didn't you talk about Judge Parker and the black cowboys?
[9:54] Speaker 2: I did. All that's right, Hold that thought. I'll come
[9:57] Speaker 2: back to that because oh yeah, no, I mean yes,
[10:00] Speaker 2: I did talk about Fort Smith. I talked about Bass Reeves,
[10:03] Speaker 2: who was basically a lawman, a Marshall bringing people before
[10:07] Speaker 2: Judge Parker. I also talked about an outlaw who will
[10:09] Speaker 2: come up later who went before Judge Parker. He's a
[10:12] Speaker 2: big part of what we think of as the wild West.
[10:14] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[10:15] Speaker 2: Now side note, did you know that federal penitentiary in
[10:18] Speaker 2: Detroit that you got sent to from the Indian Territory.
[10:22] Speaker 2: That's how we get the Lone Ranger. M Yeah, that's
[10:25] Speaker 2: same prison, the Detroit House of Corrections. That's where these
[10:28] Speaker 2: writers were kicking around. And they like his name of
[10:32] Speaker 2: George Trendall and Franz Striker, right, And they would hear
[10:35] Speaker 2: these stories from all these cowboys and it became like
[10:38] Speaker 2: the underground crime stories in Detroit. There were just you know,
[10:41] Speaker 2: so different than what they knew. So they made a
[10:44] Speaker 2: whole show, The Lone Ranger. Right. These outlaws that Judge
[10:47] Speaker 2: Parker would send there would tell these amazing tales of
[10:50] Speaker 2: the wild West. So these stories inspire these two writers.
[10:52] Speaker 2: They create a radio show. It debuts in Detroit. The
[10:56] Speaker 2: radio show is The Lone Ranger.
[10:57] Speaker 3: And that's Bass Reeves. Right.
[10:59] Speaker 2: There's some dispute. There's another Texas lawman as well. So
[11:03] Speaker 2: between the stories of bass Reeves and outlaws would tell,
[11:07] Speaker 2: but getting caught by him, and then this Texas law
[11:09] Speaker 2: man is a little bit more of a physical fit.
[11:12] Speaker 2: You get an amalgamation that becomes the Lone Ranger. Fun fact, though, Elizabeth,
[11:17] Speaker 2: do you know you can connect Batman to the Lone Ranger?
[11:20] Speaker 2: You know, I can? They exist in the same fictional universe. Right,
[11:25] Speaker 2: there's this connective tissue and it's called My Man the
[11:28] Speaker 2: Green Hornet. Oh yeah, no. He also started as a
[11:32] Speaker 2: radio show that started in Detroit from the same group
[11:35] Speaker 2: of writers. And the Lone Ranger's last name is Reid
[11:38] Speaker 2: ri E I. D. The last name of the Green
[11:40] Speaker 2: Hornet is also read Britt Reid aka my Man the
[11:43] Speaker 2: Green Hornet. He's the son of the nephew of the
[11:46] Speaker 2: Lone Ranger.
[11:47] Speaker 3: Son of the nephew.
[11:48] Speaker 2: Okay, right, so in other words, there ken So both
[11:52] Speaker 2: of these heroes they start, as I said, radio shows
[11:54] Speaker 2: in Detroit, created same two writers, so they are very
[11:57] Speaker 2: much of one mind. Now, how do they connect a
[11:59] Speaker 2: bat Man? That question? Great question. In the nineteen sixties,
[12:04] Speaker 2: Batman and the Green Hornet both at TV shows, right,
[12:07] Speaker 2: and in its second season, The Green Hornet makes an
[12:10] Speaker 2: appearance on the Batman TV Show in this like two
[12:13] Speaker 2: episode arc. Anyway, the point.
[12:15] Speaker 3: Is, was it super campy, super campy.
[12:18] Speaker 2: And Bruce Lee is in it? Bruce Lee plays Cato. Yeah,
[12:22] Speaker 2: the personal ballet to the Green Hornet, the only person
[12:25] Speaker 2: who knows his secret identity. Yeah, so you have Bruce
[12:29] Speaker 2: Lee like kicking Batman Robbins butt in anyway, doesn't matter.
[12:33] Speaker 2: The whole point is is that through the Green Hornet
[12:35] Speaker 2: you can connect the Loan Ranger to Batman, so they
[12:38] Speaker 2: all exist in the same same universe. Yeah, you know,
[12:40] Speaker 2: fictional universe. Anyway, Back to the non fiction side of things,
[12:44] Speaker 2: Bell Starr, most famous female outlaw. She would later become
[12:48] Speaker 2: the real life inspiration for our outlaw of the day,
[12:51] Speaker 2: old Cora Hubbard Lady Bandit. Now after these messages, Elizabeth,
[12:56] Speaker 2: we will meet Cora Hubbard Lady Bandit back in two
[12:59] Speaker 2: and two, Elizabeth, We're back. You ready to meet my
[13:22] Speaker 2: girl Cora Hubbard? Yes, you know I keep saying that
[13:26] Speaker 2: for you. Elizabeth Dutton, Lady Host.
[13:28] Speaker 3: Lady Host loves the Lady Bandit.
[13:30] Speaker 2: The way the press wrote about Corara Hubbard at the
[13:33] Speaker 2: time is super telling. She basically you better believe to
[13:37] Speaker 2: make her into this real badass. They of course made
[13:40] Speaker 2: comparisons to Belle Star. So I found the February seventh,
[13:44] Speaker 2: eighteen ninety eight edition of the New York City newspaper
[13:47] Speaker 2: The World, and so they were writing about Cora Hubbard,
[13:51] Speaker 2: and in their story starts like the opening sentences quote,
[13:55] Speaker 2: Cora Hubbard or missus John Sheets had been sent to
[13:58] Speaker 2: the Missouri penitentiary for bankrupt She had led a life
[14:01] Speaker 2: of crime which rivals and daring exploits the careers of
[14:04] Speaker 2: Bell Starr, the Daltons, Cherokee Bill, and other notorious frontier bandits.
[14:10] Speaker 2: Now not only is she compared to Bell Starr, but
[14:12] Speaker 2: she's also compared to my man, Cherokee Bill. So you know,
[14:16] Speaker 2: I didn't love that, And then you mentioned it earlier.
[14:19] Speaker 2: So I had this other podcast, Black Cowboys.
[14:21] Speaker 4: And Church is so good and I wish everyone it's
[14:23] Speaker 4: like great Western adventure stories.
[14:27] Speaker 2: Oh well, thank you. It was fun to make, and
[14:29] Speaker 2: I love being able to do a whole episode on
[14:30] Speaker 2: Cherokee Bill because he's not generally remembered these days, but
[14:34] Speaker 2: as you can read from this New York City newspaper
[14:36] Speaker 2: in eighteen ninety eight, he's a nationally famous outlaw at
[14:40] Speaker 2: the time. He's somebody you use as like a high
[14:42] Speaker 2: water mark a comparison, and so is Bell Star. In fact,
[14:46] Speaker 2: by the way, Cherokee Bill was so famous at one
[14:48] Speaker 2: time the President of the United States, Grover Cleveland, considered
[14:52] Speaker 2: giving him a pardon.
[14:53] Speaker 3: I love it.
[14:53] Speaker 2: And also the US Supreme Court considered his case when
[14:56] Speaker 2: he had an appeal to his death sentence from hanging.
[14:59] Speaker 3: Judge, we need a straight up Cherokee Bill movie.
[15:03] Speaker 2: Oh totally yeah. I mean, i'd be his own thing.
[15:06] Speaker 2: I wish that Hollywood had a little more excitement about
[15:09] Speaker 2: such ideas these days. But now, also, by the way,
[15:12] Speaker 2: get this, when Cherokee Bill was locked up and escaped,
[15:15] Speaker 2: a fellow inmate ended up shouting for a guard to
[15:18] Speaker 2: stop his escape. And that outlaw's name was Henry Starr,
[15:23] Speaker 2: nephew of Sam Starr aka the husband of Bell Star.
[15:26] Speaker 2: No way, the Indian Territory, all these stories always splash
[15:30] Speaker 2: into each other.
[15:30] Speaker 3: Was he ratting him out for escaping?
[15:34] Speaker 2: You listen to the episode and you can find out.
[15:37] Speaker 2: So that same outlaw, Henry Starr he did later receive
[15:40] Speaker 2: a presidential pardon from Teddy Roosevelt for his bravery standing.
[15:44] Speaker 3: Up to the outlaw Cherokee Bill.
[15:47] Speaker 2: And for his assistance obviously with recapture.
[15:49] Speaker 3: Yes.
[15:49] Speaker 2: Anyway, my point is black cowboys, Native outlaws, Confederate bushwhackers,
[15:53] Speaker 2: they all have this mixed up history together in the
[15:56] Speaker 2: land we call the Indian Territory. So back to Cora
[15:59] Speaker 2: Hubbard lady. Now, as it turns out, Cora Hubbard was
[16:02] Speaker 2: also a Native outlaw. As she told reporters at the time,
[16:05] Speaker 2: I am about one eighth Cherokee.
[16:08] Speaker 3: Was she a descendant of a Cherokee princess?
[16:10] Speaker 2: No, her father was a Union Army veteran and he
[16:13] Speaker 2: was also a quarter Cherokee like legit a quarter chaokay
[16:17] Speaker 2: actually was so. Cora Hubbard was born in Ohio in
[16:20] Speaker 2: February of eighteen seventy seven. The Hubbard family they make
[16:23] Speaker 2: their home in Missouri, across the border from Indian Territory.
[16:27] Speaker 2: When she's seven years old, her mother passes away in
[16:29] Speaker 2: like the in the Chickasaw nation in Indian Territory. Yeah,
[16:33] Speaker 2: And after that her family moves her father and then
[16:35] Speaker 2: eventually her new stepmother, and they moved to Kansas to
[16:37] Speaker 2: a place called Weird City. That's where she was raised.
[16:41] Speaker 2: With her many older brothers, like men who were known
[16:44] Speaker 2: to be a wild bunch part in the pun now.
[16:47] Speaker 2: As the Philadelphia Inquirer reported in its September twelfth, eighteen
[16:51] Speaker 2: ninety seven edition, quote Cora is indeed a complex and
[16:55] Speaker 2: mini cited character. She comes up a family that, for
[16:57] Speaker 2: the most part, has gone to the bad. Her brothers
[17:00] Speaker 2: have been rough and wild, and the greatest virtue of them,
[17:03] Speaker 2: in their eyes, has been daredevil bravery. And Cara has
[17:07] Speaker 2: probably followed along the same lines as nearly as a
[17:10] Speaker 2: woman could, and has developed into the most wonderful new
[17:14] Speaker 2: woman of the criminal type that the West has yet produced.
[17:18] Speaker 2: In other words, a lady band, lady bed.
[17:20] Speaker 3: I love the language of it, and that there's so much,
[17:23] Speaker 3: so much judgment yes slathered on it. Yes, that the
[17:27] Speaker 3: whole family.
[17:28] Speaker 4: Goes back, yes everywhere, and which is a sort of
[17:30] Speaker 4: small town notion that you know, having lived for a
[17:35] Speaker 4: time in a small town but not being of a
[17:37] Speaker 4: small town. Yeah, finding that you're tied to your family names,
[17:41] Speaker 4: oh yeah, for good or for bad. But then also
[17:44] Speaker 4: this excitement is like, you know, she's the type of
[17:47] Speaker 4: the nude to quote.
[17:49] Speaker 3: Whitman, they still got to sell papers but like.
[17:52] Speaker 4: Yeah, so it's really exciting, but let's judgeer, But isn't
[17:55] Speaker 4: it cool? But let's judge he But you know, we
[17:57] Speaker 4: do that still.
[17:58] Speaker 2: Oh, in America does love a criminal? Now? As the
[18:00] Speaker 2: Philadelphia Choirer reported, and it's September twelfth, eighteen ninety seven edition,
[18:04] Speaker 2: you notice I'm reading from like East Coast papers. They're
[18:08] Speaker 2: they're super excited. This was the end of the Wild West.
[18:11] Speaker 4: That's the thing in this era that these were the
[18:14] Speaker 4: like fantastic tales of adventure.
[18:16] Speaker 2: Totally dimestore novel material had been generated now for like
[18:19] Speaker 2: a generation at least, maybe more.
[18:21] Speaker 4: And then you start to see too as you get,
[18:23] Speaker 4: you know, later into the century of all the Yukon
[18:26] Speaker 4: tails of Alaska.
[18:28] Speaker 2: By the way, the Yukon gold Rush starts in eighteen
[18:31] Speaker 2: ninety seven, and like you know, Jack London goes up
[18:35] Speaker 2: there and makes it, gets all the inspiration for his stories.
[18:37] Speaker 2: That's all happening at this exact same time.
[18:39] Speaker 4: And people all over the country are reading about it
[18:42] Speaker 4: in the papers because it's very similar to this, to
[18:46] Speaker 4: the Wild West stories. It's a climate and a scene
[18:51] Speaker 4: that is so.
[18:52] Speaker 2: Foreign to them.
[18:53] Speaker 3: But in the you know, it's still America, still.
[18:55] Speaker 4: America, or Alaska. It's territorial, but it's like it was
[18:58] Speaker 4: like something that you couldn't conceive in Alaska, the freezing
[19:01] Speaker 4: temperatures and the desolation and the wilderness.
[19:05] Speaker 3: And then from the.
[19:05] Speaker 4: West, the west, you just have like there's this vast
[19:08] Speaker 4: expanses and this lawlessness and creatures, you know, animals that
[19:12] Speaker 4: you've never seen, you know, in the city.
[19:15] Speaker 2: And also like all the instant death, you know, lots
[19:18] Speaker 2: of ways to die. And then there's like the Native
[19:20] Speaker 2: So it's a connection to America's past. It's vast and
[19:23] Speaker 2: quickly dwindling away and disappearing.
[19:25] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[19:25] Speaker 2: So back to the Philadelphia Quirer, the September twelfth, eighteen
[19:29] Speaker 2: ninety seven edition, they informed readers that quote in conversation,
[19:33] Speaker 2: Cora Hubbard is apt and she has received a common
[19:36] Speaker 2: school education, uses correct English for the most part, and
[19:39] Speaker 2: speaks in a clear tone which she wishes to be emphatic.
[19:42] Speaker 2: She intersperses her sentences with an expressive damn or damned,
[19:47] Speaker 2: in a way that gives the impression that any old
[19:49] Speaker 2: time she pleases, she could fire a volley of oaths
[19:52] Speaker 2: that would make the most profane desperado look to his laurels,
[19:56] Speaker 2: she writes, well, love what that last line, she writes, well,
[20:01] Speaker 2: that may have come from her voracious of reading, because,
[20:04] Speaker 2: as she told the Philadelphia Inquirer in that same edition, quote,
[20:08] Speaker 2: I liked reading better than anything else. And I used
[20:11] Speaker 2: to read wild West novels by the Dozens when the
[20:13] Speaker 2: teacher was not looking. I read the history of the
[20:15] Speaker 2: James Boys through twice. My brothers read them, and I
[20:19] Speaker 2: did whatever they did. I was an expert shot.
[20:22] Speaker 3: I love it.
[20:23] Speaker 2: Now. That's her girlhood, right, reading about Jesse James and
[20:26] Speaker 2: Frank James, and then Robin Banks into you know, getting
[20:29] Speaker 2: into trouble, and her brothers too. And then she's out
[20:32] Speaker 2: there firing rifles and revolvers enough that she's got deadly aim,
[20:35] Speaker 2: like she can dot the eye and a squirrel.
[20:37] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[20:37] Speaker 2: Now, as sadly was common at that time. Though her childhood,
[20:41] Speaker 2: her girlhood ends early when she's married off. Back to
[20:44] Speaker 2: the Philadelphia Inquirer, Cora Hubbard said, and I quote, I
[20:48] Speaker 2: was married when I was fifteen years old Joseph Russell,
[20:50] Speaker 2: and lived with him seven months.
[20:52] Speaker 3: Oh sure old.
[20:55] Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I did not know. But like many women
[20:58] Speaker 2: of her day, she finds that marriage is not a
[20:59] Speaker 2: good fifteen fifteen and she put it, he was not
[21:03] Speaker 2: a bit of count to ornery, not a bit of count.
[21:08] Speaker 3: Well the thing is too, it's fifteen and a head
[21:10] Speaker 3: full of dreams.
[21:11] Speaker 2: You know.
[21:11] Speaker 4: It's not like she's thinking like this is what I want.
[21:14] Speaker 4: She's been kind of working toward it. This is not
[21:17] Speaker 4: a girl who imagines her wedding.
[21:20] Speaker 2: No, there's no denutante coming out ball for her.
[21:23] Speaker 3: H No, she wants to be a cowboy completely.
[21:26] Speaker 2: So what does she do once she's got her like
[21:28] Speaker 2: divorce at age fifteen or sixteen god, newly separated, She
[21:32] Speaker 2: gets by by selling whiskey to bootleggers in the Indian Territory.
[21:36] Speaker 2: Divorcee so seriously, she tells it, I got a divorce
[21:39] Speaker 2: and went to Vanita, Indian Territory and stayed with an
[21:42] Speaker 2: Indian woman. So just like her mother, she runs back
[21:45] Speaker 2: to the Indian Territory and then finds some people who
[21:47] Speaker 2: care for it, take her and offer a community. So
[21:50] Speaker 2: at this point we got a young wanna be outlaw.
[21:52] Speaker 2: She's familiar with the Dalton Gang, but she's not yet
[21:55] Speaker 2: a full on outlaw, and she recalled I was acquainted
[21:58] Speaker 2: with the Daltons, but I never ran with them. I
[22:00] Speaker 2: was never with them on a raid. I heard a
[22:02] Speaker 2: good deal about them in their ways. They were nice men,
[22:05] Speaker 2: open handed and freehearted. I used to meet them at dances,
[22:08] Speaker 2: to tell the truth. Bob Dalton used to be a
[22:10] Speaker 2: sweetheart of mine. We used to go together, but I
[22:13] Speaker 2: never went on any raids with him. He visited me
[22:15] Speaker 2: and took me to the dances.
[22:17] Speaker 3: They just dated. They didn't want to read.
[22:19] Speaker 2: You can hear she's still a teenager girl at heart,
[22:22] Speaker 2: despite her outlaw leader.
[22:23] Speaker 4: And I'm fixated on this divorce. What does it take
[22:26] Speaker 4: in that time, at that age to get a divorce?
[22:30] Speaker 2: Yea, I go before I judge the lawyer. There's a
[22:33] Speaker 2: lot of the.
[22:34] Speaker 4: Stuff could, of course, but I'm just saying, like what
[22:38] Speaker 4: it takes, like it's it's the bar I think is
[22:41] Speaker 4: far higher at that point than you know.
[22:43] Speaker 3: She doesn't have the autonomy that, yeah, I mean, but I.
[22:46] Speaker 2: Think if she can go before a justice of the peace,
[22:49] Speaker 2: I think it wasn't impossible. Yeah, it wasn't like possibly difficult.
[22:55] Speaker 2: You said, she's fifteen. She still wants to go to
[22:57] Speaker 2: dances with bad boys who are her known outlaw exactly,
[23:01] Speaker 2: which is so relatable, you know, just so Cora Hubbard.
[23:05] Speaker 2: She shares with the readers of the New York World
[23:06] Speaker 2: newspaper about how her criminal career begins, and she said, quote,
[23:10] Speaker 2: I was arrested at Baxter Springs, Kansas in eighteen ninety
[23:14] Speaker 2: four on the charge of horse stealing. They did not
[23:17] Speaker 2: get me until after I had knocked one of the
[23:18] Speaker 2: officers down with my six shooter. They were unable to
[23:21] Speaker 2: prove the charge and I was turned loose, but was
[23:24] Speaker 2: rearrested for street walking and find fifty dollars which I paid.
[23:29] Speaker 3: Wow, right, says so much, so quickly. There's a lot.
[23:32] Speaker 3: There's a lot, Like my brain's still churning. Just shooting
[23:36] Speaker 3: at the.
[23:37] Speaker 2: Cop, doesn't take him out, but takes the knocks him down.
[23:39] Speaker 3: That's not what did it. No street walking, I mean.
[23:42] Speaker 2: They shamed prostitution. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So by the age seventeen,
[23:46] Speaker 2: she's already an outlaw. Her life path has already started
[23:49] Speaker 2: to take shape, and it's romance that pulls her further
[23:51] Speaker 2: down the outlaw path. Oh yeah yeah. Soon comes her
[23:55] Speaker 2: second marriage, to a man named Bud Parker, and just
[23:58] Speaker 2: like her first marriage, it also doesn't like long because
[24:01] Speaker 2: when he brings her home to his ranch, she meets
[24:03] Speaker 2: his handsome and dangerous ranch hand, a twenty three year
[24:06] Speaker 2: old cowboy by the name of John Sheets Hubba Hubba
[24:09] Speaker 2: as you would say. So now there's also another ranch
[24:13] Speaker 2: hand working there, a thirty two year old cowboy named
[24:15] Speaker 2: Wit Tennyson. Now he is a name, right wit WHI
[24:20] Speaker 2: t wit Tennis and Tennyson with a y?
[24:22] Speaker 3: So is he Witman Tennyson. That's what I figured, but
[24:25] Speaker 3: I don't know, well read parent.
[24:27] Speaker 2: That's what I'm guessing. Now he's a true outlaw, a
[24:30] Speaker 2: bank robber by trade, as he tells anybody who asks. Now,
[24:33] Speaker 2: he's also, by the way, living in the same area
[24:35] Speaker 2: at this same time, or two of Cora's older brothers,
[24:38] Speaker 2: Bill Hubbard and Al Hubbard. So all together, this group
[24:41] Speaker 2: kind of comes together and they decide, you know, we
[24:44] Speaker 2: should become a new outlaw gang.
[24:45] Speaker 3: Yeah, why not?
[24:46] Speaker 2: You know, I mean, she's like, I read the books,
[24:48] Speaker 2: I know his stuff. WIT's done it a couple of times.
[24:50] Speaker 2: So Korra's older brother, Bill Hubbard, he picks their first target,
[24:54] Speaker 2: the McDonald County Bank in Pineville. He'd lived in this
[24:58] Speaker 2: town and he's familiar with the bank from memory. He
[25:02] Speaker 2: draws up a blueprint of the bank where we go
[25:04] Speaker 2: on this door and there's the safe over here, like
[25:06] Speaker 2: you know, like it's basically like the equivalent of like
[25:09] Speaker 2: a stick figure drawing, but for a banking it. No,
[25:13] Speaker 2: they come up with this plan as to how they
[25:14] Speaker 2: can rob the bank. So as Coor told the reporters
[25:17] Speaker 2: from the New York World newspaper, quote, my brother Bill Hubbard,
[25:20] Speaker 2: who I will fix when I get out, had been
[25:22] Speaker 2: staying around Pinevale last summer, and he told us there
[25:25] Speaker 2: was between six thousand and seven thousand in money on
[25:28] Speaker 2: deposit there all the time, and how we could get
[25:31] Speaker 2: in and get out. So we concluded we would go
[25:34] Speaker 2: after it.
[25:35] Speaker 4: Why not?
[25:35] Speaker 2: Yeah, six thousand, seven thousand dollars. It's a tony now,
[25:39] Speaker 2: you see. The trouble for this gang is they're a
[25:41] Speaker 2: bunch of wanna be outlast, so their plans are doomed
[25:44] Speaker 2: long before they even start. They just don't know it. Well.
[25:46] Speaker 3: They're like the equivalent of the people who watch heat.
[25:49] Speaker 2: Yes, you know that the Michael Mann school of criminology.
[25:53] Speaker 3: Is, but they don't have the films yet.
[25:56] Speaker 2: They're just reading they're just reading Jesse James Dimebag.
[25:59] Speaker 3: Yeah, which is you know pretty much.
[26:00] Speaker 2: Say, so, how does it all play out? Great question, Elizabeth.
[26:03] Speaker 3: I'm so good at these questions.
[26:05] Speaker 2: You're so curious.
[26:06] Speaker 3: I really am. I have a very curious mind.
[26:08] Speaker 2: So, before this newly formed Outlaw Gang is set to
[26:11] Speaker 2: saddle up and ride boldly ride to quote the poem Eldorado,
[26:15] Speaker 2: which is one of my favorites, Cora's other brother, Al Hubbard,
[26:19] Speaker 2: he backs out of the hole like, let's rob a
[26:20] Speaker 2: bank idea. So and then so does her new husband,
[26:23] Speaker 2: Bud Parker. So Cora is in sensed. She's like, she
[26:28] Speaker 2: tells Bud Parker that she can't stay with a quote
[26:30] Speaker 2: a damn coward, Oh like you have a man in So,
[26:36] Speaker 2: without her brother and her second husband, the new Outlaw
[26:38] Speaker 2: Gang treks off for Indian Territory. Meanwhile, Cora and that
[26:42] Speaker 2: handsome and dangerous cowboy John Sheets, they become both outlaws
[26:46] Speaker 2: and lovers boom at the same time.
[26:48] Speaker 4: He's in Outlaw in the Streets and the Sheets.
[26:51] Speaker 2: I'm gonna give you that one. In June two thousand
[26:55] Speaker 2: and four issue of Wild West magazine, the writer Larry
[26:57] Speaker 2: Wood he outlined how Cora Hubbard moved deeper into her
[27:00] Speaker 2: new outlaw life. As Larry would put it, quote the
[27:04] Speaker 2: Downside Gang stopped at Coffeeville, Kansas, long enough for sheets
[27:08] Speaker 2: to buy Winchester and ammunition, and then continued to Cora's
[27:11] Speaker 2: hometown of Weird City, Kansas, where her father, Sam Huddard
[27:15] Speaker 2: had worked in the coal mines. So her father's working away,
[27:18] Speaker 2: she goes, she goes home with her new like third lover,
[27:22] Speaker 2: you know, like her new man. When Cora arrives at
[27:25] Speaker 2: her family's ranch, her father is shocked at the sight
[27:27] Speaker 2: of his daughter.
[27:28] Speaker 4: Right.
[27:29] Speaker 2: For one, she no longer looks like his daughter. Her
[27:31] Speaker 2: hair is now cut short like a man's haircut. She's
[27:34] Speaker 2: also wearing men's clothing, and she has this new man
[27:37] Speaker 2: in her life that he's not seen any letters about, right,
[27:40] Speaker 2: And so it's also confusing for her father, but he
[27:42] Speaker 2: just chalks it up to his daughter being a poor
[27:44] Speaker 2: motherless girl, because yeah, right. So he takes her in
[27:48] Speaker 2: her two outlaw friends in, he lets them stay with him.
[27:51] Speaker 2: He's like, what's her name, wit, Nice to meet you, right,
[27:53] Speaker 2: And so they start to prep for their new bank
[27:55] Speaker 2: job at her father's ranch or a farm. Now, back
[27:58] Speaker 2: to Cora Hubbard's account for The World World newspaper, quote,
[28:01] Speaker 2: we got our winchesters and six shooters in shape and
[28:03] Speaker 2: started on horseback from we're city of Kansas to Pineville,
[28:07] Speaker 2: a distance of seventy five miles. The Sunday before the robbery,
[28:10] Speaker 2: we spent near Neosho and the hills, passed through the
[28:13] Speaker 2: town at midnight, and then reached Pineville for daylight. So
[28:18] Speaker 2: she's like, they're doing the traditional, like we're gonna ride
[28:20] Speaker 2: through the bush, sleep out in. They'll in the middle
[28:22] Speaker 2: of nowhere and make a fire, that whole bit.
[28:24] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[28:24] Speaker 2: They get to Pineville just before daylight. At this point,
[28:27] Speaker 2: it's August seventeenth, eighteen ninety seven. This outlaw gang. They
[28:31] Speaker 2: ride into town Bill Hubbard, her brother stays outside of town.
[28:35] Speaker 2: He doesn't go in for the bank job. So it's
[28:37] Speaker 2: just the three cowboys, John Sheets, wit Tennyson, and Cora Hubbard.
[28:41] Speaker 2: According to Philadelphia Inquirer, Cora Hubbard quote carried a repeating
[28:45] Speaker 2: rifle over the pommel of her saddle. The belt around
[28:48] Speaker 2: her waist contained two revolvers and one bowie knife. Yes,
[28:53] Speaker 2: she's coming in strapped right, hey, So as Cora Hubbard
[28:56] Speaker 2: tells the reporter from the New York World newspaper, quote
[28:59] Speaker 2: about ten we rode up to the bank and dismounted.
[29:02] Speaker 2: I was left in charge of the horses while John
[29:04] Speaker 2: and Tennyson went into the bank. There were a few
[29:07] Speaker 2: people on the street, and they had but little difficulty
[29:10] Speaker 2: in getting the money. Not a shot was fired, but
[29:13] Speaker 2: I thought I was gonna have to pump it into
[29:15] Speaker 2: one old cuss who persisted in standing and watching me.
[29:19] Speaker 2: Also a young fellow who acted as green as a pumpkin.
[29:22] Speaker 2: But when I told him to hide out, he fairly
[29:25] Speaker 2: raised the dust. Nice, I love fairly raised the dust.
[29:29] Speaker 2: So when Corn tells the same story to the reporter
[29:31] Speaker 2: from the Philadelphia Inquirer, she also recounted a couple other details,
[29:35] Speaker 2: like how quote there wasn't a man on that street
[29:38] Speaker 2: that would have dared enter that door. Well, I could
[29:40] Speaker 2: have held up that little town all by myself if
[29:43] Speaker 2: I had wanted to. When the men in the street
[29:45] Speaker 2: became excited, I pointed my revolver and said, any man
[29:49] Speaker 2: that tries to cross that.
[29:51] Speaker 3: Door dies, Yes.
[29:54] Speaker 2: So well, Coorn's standing watching her new bow, John Sheets
[29:57] Speaker 2: and the experienced bank robber went tennison sneak around the
[30:00] Speaker 2: bank and they ender from the back. Once inside, they
[30:03] Speaker 2: pull their weapons. They show their Winchester rifles to the
[30:06] Speaker 2: bank president this cat av Manning, and the cashier John Shields,
[30:10] Speaker 2: and the county treasurer this cat Marcus Lamance. Now the
[30:14] Speaker 2: outlaws announce we're here for the money and we want
[30:17] Speaker 2: it damn quick, right, just classic the wild West banker
[30:20] Speaker 2: irie style. To make it clear that they are not
[30:23] Speaker 2: men to be fed with, John Sheets turns his Winchester
[30:26] Speaker 2: on the cashier, the kid Shields, and knocks him to
[30:29] Speaker 2: the floor, just doubles him up. He goes down on
[30:31] Speaker 2: all fours with the butt of it, actually with the front,
[30:34] Speaker 2: but yeah, oh dam yeah, with the muzzle. So the
[30:36] Speaker 2: bank president nods to the cat that is not it'll
[30:40] Speaker 2: get attention. Now. The bank president nods to the cashier
[30:43] Speaker 2: Shields to do us instructed, like, you know, give him
[30:46] Speaker 2: the money damn quick. And he gets it, and he
[30:49] Speaker 2: fills the sack with coins and paper money to the
[30:51] Speaker 2: tune of five hundred and eighty nine dollars and twenty
[30:54] Speaker 2: three cents, which is a far cry from the five
[30:57] Speaker 2: thousand or six thousand that they thought they'd get. Now,
[31:00] Speaker 2: we do have an eyewitness account from one of the
[31:02] Speaker 2: townsfolk in the January fifteenth, nineteen thirty nine edition of
[31:06] Speaker 2: the Tulsa Tribune. They recalled this bank robbery that was
[31:11] Speaker 2: still a legend in the area some forty years later. Wow, right,
[31:15] Speaker 2: like yeah, like the older like the gray hairs, the
[31:17] Speaker 2: silver tops, they're all like I remember when I was
[31:19] Speaker 2: a boy. Right. So the eyewitnesses is cat Claude Duval,
[31:22] Speaker 2: who was the son of the local Pineville Herald newspaper publisher,
[31:26] Speaker 2: a man who was named Claib Duval, which I have
[31:29] Speaker 2: to assume is short for Claiborne. Yeah, c l a
[31:32] Speaker 2: b c la ib c laib la.
[31:38] Speaker 4: Duval Claiborne, Yeah, I guess so either way, that's a
[31:41] Speaker 4: great Western name, totally.
[31:43] Speaker 2: You can't fake that now, you could. So the Sun
[31:46] Speaker 2: Claude he quote Claude explains the fear of this lady
[31:50] Speaker 2: bandit costs as best as he can decades later, right,
[31:53] Speaker 2: so he remembers standing guard at the front steps of
[31:56] Speaker 2: the bank. This Cora Hubbard Or's Claude recalled small young
[31:59] Speaker 2: man boy, part Indian, Right, that's how he thought she
[32:03] Speaker 2: was when he was a kid and then out comes
[32:05] Speaker 2: the rest of the outlaw gang. Because remember she's got
[32:07] Speaker 2: the short hair, wearing the men's clothes.
[32:09] Speaker 3: Thearon address is not practical in that light.
[32:12] Speaker 2: Definitely not, but I mean it is comments he's.
[32:14] Speaker 3: Not there for the mail gaze function.
[32:17] Speaker 2: Yes, she's wearing like what you called dungarees basically, so
[32:22] Speaker 2: she's like, I've gotta get over on a horse, get
[32:24] Speaker 2: off the horse. I ain't wearing a skirt and cut
[32:28] Speaker 2: doesn't even right side settle. So once the bank robbers
[32:31] Speaker 2: they get their money, right, John Sheets pushes the cashier
[32:35] Speaker 2: Shields and bank president av Manning ahead of them as
[32:38] Speaker 2: they exit the bank right. The reason why is they
[32:40] Speaker 2: want to keep their their prisoners close to them because,
[32:42] Speaker 2: as Claude tells it, quote, inside of three minutes they
[32:45] Speaker 2: had secured the cash and started for their horses, compelling
[32:49] Speaker 2: Shields and Manning to march at a lively trot in
[32:51] Speaker 2: front of them, thus preventing any shots being fired as
[32:54] Speaker 2: they retreated. So they're doing like the classic like stay
[32:57] Speaker 2: close to me. Yeah, yeah, they walk them out. Now
[33:00] Speaker 2: the bank's been robbed, the bank robbers have successfully escaped
[33:03] Speaker 2: and reunited with their lookout Cora. How does his brand
[33:07] Speaker 2: new gang outlaws escape the town?
[33:09] Speaker 3: Great questions.
[33:10] Speaker 2: They shoot their way out of town, and if they're
[33:12] Speaker 2: successful at that a posse will likely be formed to
[33:16] Speaker 2: chase them down. It's a really long, but great question, Elizabeth.
[33:20] Speaker 2: To answer that, I want to tell you this close
[33:22] Speaker 2: your eyes, I'd like you to picture, as it was
[33:29] Speaker 2: a quiet morning in the tiny town of Pineville, fat
[33:33] Speaker 2: and fluffy white cumulus clouds crowd the sky. They look
[33:37] Speaker 2: like sheep in a meadow. A slate breeze has been
[33:39] Speaker 2: blowing the dust from the unpaved main street, and you,
[33:43] Speaker 2: you've been doing your morning feeding, picking from the pollen
[33:46] Speaker 2: on offer from a pile of day old flowers left
[33:49] Speaker 2: as refuse in an alleyway, because you, Elizabeth, are a
[33:52] Speaker 2: brilliant blue butterfly. But your breakfast of yellow pollen granules
[33:56] Speaker 2: is interrupted when three cowboys flee the town. You flip
[34:01] Speaker 2: your wings take to the air as the bank robbers
[34:03] Speaker 2: rush to mount their horses. You pull it up lazily
[34:06] Speaker 2: as the bank robbers fire their pistols into the air,
[34:09] Speaker 2: meant to scare off any pain in the net ganis
[34:11] Speaker 2: and bystanders. It works beautifully, however, Now you are sort
[34:15] Speaker 2: of flitting along and right smack dab in their path
[34:18] Speaker 2: to escape as the bank robbers charge out of town
[34:21] Speaker 2: on horseback. Unfortunately for you, you are not quick enough
[34:24] Speaker 2: to flit out of their way. Your ever soft wings
[34:27] Speaker 2: get pinned against the saddle of one of the bank
[34:30] Speaker 2: robbers horses, and just like that, you too are fleeing
[34:33] Speaker 2: the town. Now, when unwitting stowaway, the hoofs of the
[34:37] Speaker 2: three horses pound the earth as the riders shout encouragement
[34:42] Speaker 2: at their steeds, You just try not to get crushed
[34:45] Speaker 2: in all the commotions are a delicate butterfly. The thunderous
[34:49] Speaker 2: clatter of hooves against the hard pack earth of the
[34:51] Speaker 2: town's main street soon gives way to the softer sound
[34:55] Speaker 2: of the horses galloping across tall, sun dry yellow grass.
[35:00] Speaker 2: Riders next steer their horses into the woods and slow
[35:03] Speaker 2: down to a truck. The riders avoid the low branches.
[35:06] Speaker 2: The horses finally come to a stop and a clearing
[35:08] Speaker 2: in the woods, where a fourth rider joins them. The
[35:11] Speaker 2: three greet this fourth man in friendly tones. At least
[35:14] Speaker 2: there won't be any more shouting or and shooting. You
[35:17] Speaker 2: think you wish to flit off on your own, but
[35:19] Speaker 2: in their hasty retreat, your wings got stuck to the
[35:22] Speaker 2: leather of the saddle. And so now you watch the
[35:25] Speaker 2: robbers as they dump the sacks of coins and paper money.
[35:29] Speaker 2: The bank robbers laugh at their success as they divide
[35:31] Speaker 2: up the loot. Once each bank robber has their fair
[35:35] Speaker 2: share of the stolen cash, they give their horses a
[35:37] Speaker 2: kick in the sides and gallop off. But one of
[35:40] Speaker 2: the horses is breathing hard and rough. It can't go
[35:43] Speaker 2: on like this. You hear one of the bank robbers
[35:46] Speaker 2: point out a boy on horseback in the distance. There
[35:48] Speaker 2: across a field, making his way down the old country road.
[35:53] Speaker 2: The bank robbers ride off in his direction. You see
[35:56] Speaker 2: the boy turn as the now four riders approach. The
[35:59] Speaker 2: boy puts on a gray face right up until one
[36:02] Speaker 2: of the bank robbers draws his six shooter and orders
[36:04] Speaker 2: the boy down from his horse. His eyes now filled
[36:08] Speaker 2: with fear, he does as he's told. The bank robber
[36:10] Speaker 2: climbs off his horse and takes the reins of the boys.
[36:13] Speaker 2: He mounts the beautiful animal. He asks the horse's name.
[36:16] Speaker 2: The boy sputters out, Birdie. We call him Birdie. The
[36:21] Speaker 2: bank robber tells the boys, that's a good name, and
[36:23] Speaker 2: he's trading horses with him, and you be good to
[36:26] Speaker 2: his horse. The boy just nods. He watches, almost wordlessly,
[36:30] Speaker 2: as the bank robbers gallop away and disappear over a
[36:34] Speaker 2: rise in the country road. It turns out that boy
[36:37] Speaker 2: is the son of the bank cashier. You couldn't possibly
[36:41] Speaker 2: know that, but this means the cashier has been robbed
[36:44] Speaker 2: twice in one morning. Meanwhile, you finally get free of
[36:47] Speaker 2: that saddle and flit up into the cloudy sky. What
[36:50] Speaker 2: a morning it's been for you, Just a simple prairie butterfly.
[36:54] Speaker 2: Now there you go, Elizabeth, As you just saw and heard,
[36:58] Speaker 2: these wanna be outlaws did successfully rob a bank. They
[37:02] Speaker 2: did the thing I always talk about. They got away
[37:04] Speaker 2: with them. They managed to mount horses ride for the
[37:06] Speaker 2: territory with posse on their heels. What this gang outlaws
[37:10] Speaker 2: doesn't know is that they're up against the dawning era
[37:13] Speaker 2: of modernity. Yes, as in the townspeople use the telegraph
[37:18] Speaker 2: to contact other towns and inform them they've just been robbed.
[37:22] Speaker 2: And five miles away is the town of Nowell, where
[37:25] Speaker 2: danger awaits. Let's take a little break and when we
[37:27] Speaker 2: get back, we will find how that danger plays out. Okay, Elizabeth,
[37:53] Speaker 2: how you digging this? Do you like being a butterfly?
[37:55] Speaker 3: I love being a butterfly. That's fun for me. And
[37:59] Speaker 3: then I thought any.
[38:00] Speaker 2: Better than of being like a house fly or a
[38:01] Speaker 2: horse flyer.
[38:02] Speaker 4: Oh you know, sometimes you just don't get a choice
[38:05] Speaker 4: in whatever next life pre reincarnated form.
[38:07] Speaker 3: Yeah, what am I going to do? You know, it
[38:09] Speaker 3: is what it is. But I'm loving this sort of
[38:11] Speaker 3: these adventure tales. I like to remove myself from the today.
[38:16] Speaker 2: Oh yeah, so I thought I thought past is fun
[38:19] Speaker 2: and this is an engrossing one, So yes it is. Okay, So,
[38:23] Speaker 2: as I told you both, like just a second ago,
[38:25] Speaker 2: the era of modernity is dawning. So we do have
[38:28] Speaker 2: the telegraph, and so it's able to connect people with telephone,
[38:31] Speaker 2: not telephone poles, but telegraph poles.
[38:33] Speaker 4: The Internet.
[38:34] Speaker 2: Yeah, there's wires that are running the link to town.
[38:38] Speaker 2: So they use this right and when the telegram arrives
[38:41] Speaker 2: with its message soon enough, another posse is formed in
[38:45] Speaker 2: the town of Noel. They these posse members are told
[38:48] Speaker 2: to be on the lookout for three bank robbers, one
[38:50] Speaker 2: of whom is quote a small young man or boy,
[38:52] Speaker 2: part Indian. Now the posse and Noel is quick to
[38:56] Speaker 2: their horses. They head out of town, and they managed
[38:58] Speaker 2: to link up with the first posse, the one from Pineville,
[39:02] Speaker 2: and together they formed this sort of super posse. Now
[39:04] Speaker 2: together they also chase down the outlaw gang. However, the
[39:07] Speaker 2: men are smart about it. This ain't the first time
[39:09] Speaker 2: they formed a posse, So rather than chase after the
[39:12] Speaker 2: bank robbers, they anticipate where the bank robbers will go next,
[39:16] Speaker 2: and they circle around to lay and wait and ambush
[39:19] Speaker 2: them when the outlaws right into the scene. As Carr
[39:22] Speaker 2: recalled it to the New York World News, quote, we
[39:24] Speaker 2: had encountered no trouble until very near sundown, when we
[39:27] Speaker 2: met a posse of about a half dozen citizens near Noel.
[39:31] Speaker 2: Now that is after the surprise. She's telling this, right,
[39:35] Speaker 2: she's telling this after much later. I will tell you
[39:38] Speaker 2: how they actually came across the posse, because it's a
[39:41] Speaker 2: much better version. So this story only gets better and better,
[39:44] Speaker 2: because remember, they successfully robbed a bank for one tenth
[39:48] Speaker 2: of the money that they expected to be there. They've
[39:50] Speaker 2: bullied a child into stealing his horse. The way that
[39:53] Speaker 2: it comes undone for them. Is is more examples of
[39:57] Speaker 2: what don't be a wanna be outlaw who's never been
[39:59] Speaker 2: a b bank robber decide I'm committing fully right. You
[40:02] Speaker 2: may want to get at least two people who've done
[40:04] Speaker 2: in the bar, not just al wit Tennises.
[40:06] Speaker 3: Do more than just watch heat.
[40:08] Speaker 2: Yeah. So, and like many criminals recover this craw also
[40:11] Speaker 2: finds the best lay plans can be undone by things
[40:13] Speaker 2: like paperwork or a miscalculation or in their case, a betrayal.
[40:17] Speaker 2: But we'll get to that in a second. Yeah, but
[40:19] Speaker 2: first we need to escape the super Posse. So when
[40:22] Speaker 2: the three bank robbers ride out of town, they linked
[40:24] Speaker 2: up a chorus brothers Bill. He reconnects with them, so
[40:28] Speaker 2: now it's actually a four person banned of outlaws that's
[40:30] Speaker 2: riding hard for the territory. They gallop through dry ravines,
[40:34] Speaker 2: rocky passes, They weave their way through woods and brambles
[40:38] Speaker 2: until finally come to this dry gulch. The same golts
[40:41] Speaker 2: for the Superposse is lying in wait to ambush them.
[40:44] Speaker 2: So this posse out numbers them these wannabe bank robbers
[40:48] Speaker 2: about two to one. So right off the bat, the
[40:50] Speaker 2: odds aren't in their favor. But the wannabe bank robbers
[40:53] Speaker 2: have another problem facing them. They make all kinds of
[40:56] Speaker 2: rooky mistakes when their speedy retreat runs into a full
[40:59] Speaker 2: on gun fight. Oh yeah, here's how Cora Robbard recounts
[41:02] Speaker 2: their flight to freedom. She told the New York World
[41:05] Speaker 2: newspaper in February seventh, eighteen ninety eight edition. Quote, we
[41:08] Speaker 2: were riding single file with Tennyson in the lead when
[41:11] Speaker 2: the posse opened fire on us without a moment's warning.
[41:14] Speaker 2: Tennyson's pony wheeled and run at the first fire, and
[41:18] Speaker 2: that was the last we saw that coward.
[41:20] Speaker 3: So to summarize horses, the coward or Tennis.
[41:23] Speaker 2: Wit Tennyson, he's riding the horse that he stole from
[41:26] Speaker 2: the cashier's son, the horse called Bertie. And when the
[41:29] Speaker 2: fire and start, Birdie freaks out and you know, I've
[41:31] Speaker 2: never been in such as I'm not like this to
[41:35] Speaker 2: the steed. He tosses, with Tennyson off his back, and
[41:38] Speaker 2: the horse bolts right, leaving Tennyson in the dirt. Meanwhile,
[41:42] Speaker 2: he's also been shot, so he's gun shot alone and
[41:46] Speaker 2: thrown from a horse. Yeah, and a coward, Well, there's
[41:49] Speaker 2: a reason for that, but he's not fair, and well
[41:51] Speaker 2: we'll leave it at that. So meanwhile, her brother Bill,
[41:53] Speaker 2: who is not shot, he rides off in his own direction, right,
[41:56] Speaker 2: He's like, I'm taking off just cuts for the like
[41:59] Speaker 2: the tree line that.
[42:00] Speaker 3: She complained that it was without warning. Yeah, Like they're like,
[42:03] Speaker 3: oh you.
[42:05] Speaker 2: Get ready, you hear us coming 're over here by
[42:08] Speaker 2: the rocks. So what about Cora and her lover John Sheets. Yeah,
[42:12] Speaker 2: great question, Elizabeth Grey, do the story. Cora tells the
[42:15] Speaker 2: Philadelphia Inquirer. There's a lot more action in chaos. Then
[42:19] Speaker 2: she summed up earlier as she puts it quote. Then
[42:22] Speaker 2: we mounted and made for nowel and the posse caught
[42:25] Speaker 2: up with us and began shooting. Bill joined us out
[42:27] Speaker 2: of Pineville, so we returned fire. I shot more than
[42:31] Speaker 2: forty shots. They shot John Sheet's horse from under him
[42:34] Speaker 2: and his revolver out of his hand. He got his
[42:37] Speaker 2: revolver again and we shot back thick and fast. Then
[42:41] Speaker 2: they shot my horse from under me and my revolver
[42:44] Speaker 2: out of my hand. My winchester was strapped in my saddle,
[42:47] Speaker 2: and I went right after it. While they were shooting,
[42:50] Speaker 2: I got my winchester quick and began firing it. I
[42:52] Speaker 2: wanted to go back and fight them, but John wouldn't
[42:55] Speaker 2: do it. That was his way. He didn't want to
[42:57] Speaker 2: kill anybody, and never did kill anybody. I aim to
[43:00] Speaker 2: hurt them fellas, and I guess we scared them. WHOA.
[43:04] Speaker 2: That's how she tells it. Enough. That's not also, by
[43:07] Speaker 2: the way, not exactly the same story that the Philadelphia
[43:09] Speaker 2: Inquired tells. The Rider summarizes all these events from different perspectives. Yeah,
[43:14] Speaker 2: and he says, quote. The vigilantes thought they had her
[43:16] Speaker 2: at last, but before they could reach the spot, the
[43:19] Speaker 2: girl in the clothing of a cowboy had mounted the
[43:21] Speaker 2: riderless horse of the wounded robber and was on her way,
[43:25] Speaker 2: turning in her saddle every minute to let loose a
[43:27] Speaker 2: few bullets with the evident intention of killing one or
[43:31] Speaker 2: more of her pursuers. Had she used her rifle, the
[43:34] Speaker 2: results might have been different, but she did not and
[43:37] Speaker 2: was out of pistol range. The last they saw the
[43:40] Speaker 2: girl was when she was just entering a rocky place
[43:43] Speaker 2: where she would soon be hidden by the trees. Then
[43:46] Speaker 2: the girl turned in her saddle and fired six rapid
[43:49] Speaker 2: shots from her revolver shots ringing defiance to the people
[43:52] Speaker 2: who believe in law and order. Now, notice that the
[43:57] Speaker 2: paper makes her out to be some kind of hardened
[43:58] Speaker 2: criminals real, while her own account seems a little bit
[44:02] Speaker 2: more plausible. Regardless of which version events you choose to believe,
[44:06] Speaker 2: this much is clear. Her brother Bill basically links back
[44:09] Speaker 2: up with them outside of town. When they're ambushed wit
[44:12] Speaker 2: Tennyson gets shot and his horse dumps him. He runs off. Meanwhile,
[44:15] Speaker 2: brother Bill he escapes, but her lover, John Sheets, gets
[44:18] Speaker 2: his horse shot out from him, his gun shot out
[44:20] Speaker 2: of his hand. Cora has the same thing happened to her.
[44:22] Speaker 2: Then she gets back on her horse, has to go
[44:24] Speaker 2: save her lover, which she does using her Winchester rifle
[44:27] Speaker 2: as cover. Then she wants to kill these members of
[44:31] Speaker 2: the superposit, but cooler head of John Sheets prevail. So
[44:34] Speaker 2: the lovers now ride off together on one horse and
[44:37] Speaker 2: they make it to the woods. Where then what do
[44:39] Speaker 2: they do next? To Elizabeth, they ditch their horse and
[44:42] Speaker 2: they decide to flee on foot. That's okay, the horse
[44:45] Speaker 2: has been shot, so that's why. Yeah, So what happens next?
[44:49] Speaker 2: Great question, Elizabeth. Well, for one, the posse fails to
[44:52] Speaker 2: find wit Tennyson. Remember he got shot first off his horse.
[44:56] Speaker 2: He somehow skunks off and nobody finds him, right, but
[45:00] Speaker 2: the posse does then find the horse Birdie, who's just
[45:03] Speaker 2: over there quietly grazing on grass.
[45:06] Speaker 3: He's like, please take me back to normal, exclude me
[45:09] Speaker 3: from this narrative.
[45:10] Speaker 2: I'm so I did not want to be pretty hands up. Yeah,
[45:15] Speaker 2: So Cora's brother Bill, as I told you, he successfully
[45:18] Speaker 2: flees on horseback, goes his own way. Meanwhile, Cora and
[45:22] Speaker 2: John Sheets, who are now on foot, try to make
[45:24] Speaker 2: their escape, with the super Posse chasing after him. Back
[45:27] Speaker 2: to Cora's account, she says, gunfire quote knocked John from
[45:31] Speaker 2: his horse, and then when he got I reacted days
[45:33] Speaker 2: and I thought he was killed. His horse ran away
[45:35] Speaker 2: and I helped him on behind me, and we went
[45:37] Speaker 2: back a short distance, and when we abandoned the horse,
[45:40] Speaker 2: we took to the woods, where we remained until dark.
[45:43] Speaker 2: So now they're hiding out in the forested woods.
[45:45] Speaker 3: Right, he's got a concussion, yeah exactly.
[45:47] Speaker 2: I mean he's he's been shot at least or had
[45:50] Speaker 2: this gun shot out of his hand, possibly been shot.
[45:53] Speaker 3: Turns out they all been thrown from these horses too.
[45:56] Speaker 2: Oh yeah, we got broken ribs, oh completely. And as
[45:58] Speaker 2: Cora told the New York War Quote, after dark, we
[46:01] Speaker 2: took off our shoes so as not to make much noise,
[46:04] Speaker 2: and proceeded on foot toward the territory. The next day
[46:07] Speaker 2: we camped near a nice stream of cold water, and
[46:09] Speaker 2: I dressed in Nurse John's gunshot wounds, which consisted of
[46:13] Speaker 2: twelve shots in the arms, breast, and face. What, yeah,
[46:16] Speaker 2: he's not gun shot, he's gun shot up well, twelve yes,
[46:20] Speaker 2: different shots. Yeah, so some of this is like bird
[46:25] Speaker 2: shot shotgun stuff. So it's not just like he's got
[46:27] Speaker 2: twelve slugs in him, but he's been shot yet he has.
[46:30] Speaker 3: Twelve holes eight hours earlier.
[46:34] Speaker 2: So the next day the Posse is still at it, right,
[46:37] Speaker 2: And the first person that the super Posse does find
[46:39] Speaker 2: is with Tennyson Because folks in Pineville they received word
[46:43] Speaker 2: from a neighboring town called Southwest City.
[46:46] Speaker 3: Perfect.
[46:47] Speaker 2: It sounds like, yeah, in Missouri, that a stranger showed
[46:51] Speaker 2: up in town and ordered breakfast. Now, the man fit
[46:53] Speaker 2: the description of one of the bank robbers that had
[46:55] Speaker 2: hit Pineville, and the more important part is that the
[46:57] Speaker 2: stranger paid for his breakfast in pennies, which was suspicious
[47:00] Speaker 2: because the bank robbers had stolen a mess of pennies,
[47:03] Speaker 2: and everyone's like, anyone shows up with a bunch of pennies,
[47:05] Speaker 2: you might not know what he Oh, guy, So the
[47:10] Speaker 2: super Posse reforms and they ride out and they go
[47:13] Speaker 2: check if this is their man.
[47:14] Speaker 4: I think about how many like you know, you spoke
[47:19] Speaker 4: recently about the football player who didn't anticipate the weight. Yes,
[47:23] Speaker 4: of the bills, but like they've just got sacks and
[47:26] Speaker 4: sacks and points.
[47:27] Speaker 2: Yeah, all sorts of different coins.
[47:28] Speaker 3: Well, let's just say it's all pennies and that's how
[47:31] Speaker 3: they got five hundred bucks.
[47:32] Speaker 2: But they do have a lot of pennies, a lot
[47:34] Speaker 2: of So. Southwest City is about twenty five miles from Pineville.
[47:38] Speaker 2: So with Tennyson, he was also by the way, gunshot
[47:41] Speaker 2: and thrown from a horse. He walks twenty or so
[47:44] Speaker 2: miles I'm assuming through most of the night. Yeah, maybe
[47:46] Speaker 2: he stole another horse. But because when the Posse he
[47:49] Speaker 2: catches up to him, he's in the Indian territory about
[47:51] Speaker 2: twenty miles deep into the terror story, this man has
[47:53] Speaker 2: covered some ground. Yeah, right, but it doesn't last because
[47:56] Speaker 2: the Posse gets a tip about this wounded man hold
[47:58] Speaker 2: up in a cabin and in territory from the people
[48:01] Speaker 2: who were like, oh, yeah, he was here, had breakfast here,
[48:03] Speaker 2: paid with pennies, right.
[48:04] Speaker 3: He had breakfasts like you know I'm starving.
[48:07] Speaker 2: Yeah, then he just walked off out of town.
[48:09] Speaker 3: It's like, I just eggs over easy.
[48:11] Speaker 2: Yeah, I need to fill these holes in me.
[48:13] Speaker 3: Do you guys have do you guys do like brunch?
[48:15] Speaker 2: Yeah? Do you have a stick and eggs special? So
[48:17] Speaker 2: the superpast he goes out to this cabin and Indian
[48:20] Speaker 2: territory and that's right where they find him, armed with
[48:22] Speaker 2: a forty five revolver and a Winchester rifle. But he
[48:25] Speaker 2: doesn't put up a fight. Instead, like gunshot as he is,
[48:28] Speaker 2: he just gives up and they find on him one
[48:30] Speaker 2: hundred and twenty one dollars and fifty cents of the
[48:32] Speaker 2: stolen money pennies. So he gets arrested without incident. Posse
[48:37] Speaker 2: takes him to jail. Once he's in jail, do you
[48:39] Speaker 2: think he clams up like a real badass bank robber
[48:42] Speaker 2: should remember he's the professional so or do you think
[48:45] Speaker 2: he flips on his comrades and tells all that he knows.
[48:48] Speaker 3: He's got a belly full of all vocado toasts. There's
[48:50] Speaker 3: no telling little too.
[48:51] Speaker 2: He wants to survive. He needs the doc to like
[48:53] Speaker 2: fix him up, so he says all that he can. Elizabeth,
[48:56] Speaker 2: if you guess he tells everything he knows, you would
[48:59] Speaker 2: be right.
[48:59] Speaker 4: Yea.
[49:00] Speaker 2: He tells the posse that Cora and her brother Bill,
[49:02] Speaker 2: here's where they live with them as her lover John Sheets,
[49:05] Speaker 2: they're all from We're City, and they're likely headed to
[49:07] Speaker 2: her father's place. I can draw you a map, right,
[49:10] Speaker 2: So back to John Sheets and Cora, who were by
[49:13] Speaker 2: the way, still on foot, and I should mention barefoot.
[49:16] Speaker 3: They get crazy.
[49:17] Speaker 2: So, according to what she told the reporter from the
[49:19] Speaker 2: New York World Quote, the next night we proceeded as before,
[49:22] Speaker 2: and the following morning found us at Grove, Indian Territory,
[49:26] Speaker 2: God's Country for Bandit, you know where I purchased shoes
[49:29] Speaker 2: for both of us and medicine for John. While in
[49:32] Speaker 2: the store, I heard them tell about the arrest of
[49:34] Speaker 2: Tennis and for robbing the Pineville bank, and feared that
[49:37] Speaker 2: coward would give us all away in order to save
[49:39] Speaker 2: his own hide. Now she may not have been an
[49:44] Speaker 2: outlaw for long, but Cora did have good people since right, Yeah,
[49:47] Speaker 2: because she knew that Wit was not worth it, and
[49:50] Speaker 2: she was right. So at this point, local papers start
[49:53] Speaker 2: running with the story of the bank robbery, the attempt
[49:55] Speaker 2: to escape, the posse, the ambush, the gunfight, the capture
[49:58] Speaker 2: of Wit Tennis, and they got a lot to right about.
[50:00] Speaker 2: Not to be outdone by the back east newspapers, the
[50:04] Speaker 2: local papers run with the notion that Kora Hubbard is
[50:06] Speaker 2: the worst outlaw the territory scene since you guessed it,
[50:10] Speaker 2: Bell Stars. The papers called her the second Bell Star.
[50:13] Speaker 2: One paper even went with this headline, female bandit rivals
[50:16] Speaker 2: the daring deeds of Bell Starr and Kate Bender. Now,
[50:20] Speaker 2: who's Kate Bender? Great question, Elizabeth, I regret asking she
[50:24] Speaker 2: wasn't an outlaw. She was the leader of a thrill
[50:27] Speaker 2: kill family that murdered eight people in Kansas back in
[50:30] Speaker 2: eighteen seventy, so we're talking twenty seven years earlier. So
[50:34] Speaker 2: it's like they're basically calling her the female Charles Manson.
[50:37] Speaker 3: Yeah culture wow, Yeah, exactly.
[50:42] Speaker 2: And also keep in mind, so far this group has
[50:45] Speaker 2: yet to kill anyone.
[50:45] Speaker 3: They've gotten a gun, five, they've gone through a lot
[50:48] Speaker 3: of Amma.
[50:49] Speaker 2: Yeah, but they're being compared to a thrill Kill family
[50:51] Speaker 2: from twenty seven years earlier. So now we're starting to
[50:55] Speaker 2: get Cora Hubbard, Lady Bandit right, who's the nineteenth century
[50:59] Speaker 2: female Charles Manson. So back to Cora Hubbard's account of
[51:02] Speaker 2: what happens next, And she told the New York World
[51:04] Speaker 2: newspaper quote, John's wounds had improved, and we walked to Fairland,
[51:08] Speaker 2: where we hired a rig and went to Blue Jacket
[51:10] Speaker 2: on the Kdie and took the train for Parsons, Kansas.
[51:14] Speaker 2: Here I left John and went home, against his wishes,
[51:17] Speaker 2: but I owed my father two hundred dollars and I
[51:19] Speaker 2: wanted to pay it. So to recap, now, they've walked
[51:21] Speaker 2: to town, rented a wagon, rode to a different town,
[51:23] Speaker 2: caught a train that takes him to a town not
[51:25] Speaker 2: too far from where her family farm is located in
[51:28] Speaker 2: We're City. But she now leaves John Sheets there in
[51:31] Speaker 2: this other town because he's gunshot with the twelve bullet
[51:33] Speaker 2: wounds and ailing. Then she and her brother Bill walk
[51:37] Speaker 2: back to their father's house. The plan is once John
[51:40] Speaker 2: Sheets rests a day or two, he'll meet up with
[51:42] Speaker 2: Cora in Weir City, just rest up a day or
[51:44] Speaker 2: two from these twelve bullet holes, and then the two
[51:47] Speaker 2: of them planned to flee over the border to wear Iowa.
[51:50] Speaker 2: We can just make it to Iowa, Mexico. Yeah, the
[51:53] Speaker 2: ninety nine county is a freedom except remember with Tennyson
[51:57] Speaker 2: has told the Posse that Cora and her brother Bill
[51:59] Speaker 2: and on sheets are headed back to where city. Not
[52:01] Speaker 2: only that, he's drawn a map to their father's place.
[52:04] Speaker 2: So both sides arrive in town at about the same time.
[52:07] Speaker 2: Cora does make it to her father's house. When the
[52:09] Speaker 2: Posse arrives in town, they first go to the Marshall
[52:12] Speaker 2: and they ask for his help, and he's like, I
[52:14] Speaker 2: know Sam Hubbard. I'll go out to Sam Hubbard's place.
[52:16] Speaker 2: So the Marshall, he's savvy. He doesn't go out and
[52:18] Speaker 2: go where where's your boy? And where's your daughter? He
[52:20] Speaker 2: rides out and he goes, I need to borrow your
[52:22] Speaker 2: copper kettle, and it it does like a whole life.
[52:26] Speaker 2: So at this point he talks to Sam Hubbard and
[52:28] Speaker 2: when he's there he sees Coorra Hubbard. He identifies her.
[52:31] Speaker 2: He's like, okay, who's that little boy exactly. Indian boy
[52:34] Speaker 2: over there? Who is that? I don't recognize him? So
[52:36] Speaker 2: he doesn't arrest her though. Instead he rides back to
[52:39] Speaker 2: town to alert the posse where Kora is. So now
[52:42] Speaker 2: the posse hops back in the saddles and they all
[52:44] Speaker 2: ride out to the Hubbard farm. They are oh yeah,
[52:47] Speaker 2: and they also have picked up some of some Marshall's
[52:50] Speaker 2: deputies and Sheriff's deputies.
[52:51] Speaker 3: So before they mega superpostle exactly.
[52:54] Speaker 2: But now before they get out of town, this this
[52:57] Speaker 2: mega posse. Who do they see walking around in town?
[53:01] Speaker 2: None other than Bill Hubbard. So of course they arrest
[53:04] Speaker 2: him and they make a quick detour to drop him
[53:06] Speaker 2: back off at the Marshall's jail. Then they ride out
[53:09] Speaker 2: to the Hubbard farm. They're just picking them off. One
[53:11] Speaker 2: hit of time in it right, Some of the posse,
[53:13] Speaker 2: this mega posse gets to the house. One of the
[53:16] Speaker 2: deputy marshals knocks on the door using his rifle. Once again,
[53:19] Speaker 2: he uses the muzzle end. What is this I don't know,
[53:22] Speaker 2: But as Jackie Gleason is once said in Smoking the Bandit,
[53:25] Speaker 2: that's what you call an attention getter. So it does
[53:29] Speaker 2: the trick. It gets their attention. Cora comes to the door,
[53:32] Speaker 2: opens it, and she finds a Winchester rifle pointed right
[53:34] Speaker 2: at her bak. When she opens the door, she's ordered
[53:37] Speaker 2: to put her hands up and come along without a fight.
[53:39] Speaker 2: She does as instructed. She pads out of the house barefoot,
[53:43] Speaker 2: wearing a calico dress. She calmly greets the posse, reportedly
[53:47] Speaker 2: without a trace of fear. As one eyewitness put it,
[53:50] Speaker 2: she was quote like a child at play, putting up
[53:52] Speaker 2: its hands before a toy pistol and boom off. She
[53:55] Speaker 2: goes to jail. Now. The way Cora recounts her capture
[53:58] Speaker 2: gives far more detail because she's remember she likes to read,
[54:01] Speaker 2: so she told the fellat uph your inquiry quote, when
[54:03] Speaker 2: the officers came to wear City, I just got home
[54:06] Speaker 2: and was getting ready to go to sleep, and I
[54:08] Speaker 2: didn't have on nothing but my tea gown and underclothes.
[54:10] Speaker 2: They didn't give me time to dress. Marshall Hatton is
[54:13] Speaker 2: a sure coward. He brought about twenty five men armed
[54:16] Speaker 2: with revolvers and Winchester's. He said, you hold up your
[54:20] Speaker 2: hands or I will kill you. I never threw it
[54:22] Speaker 2: up in my hands. I stood and laughed. Then the
[54:25] Speaker 2: fellows formed around the house and they walked me out
[54:27] Speaker 2: in the street and didn't give me time to dress.
[54:30] Speaker 2: So now she's run out in the street barefoot in
[54:32] Speaker 2: a calico dress.
[54:33] Speaker 3: They that must have made them so mad that she
[54:36] Speaker 3: was not scared of them. Oh yeah, because they all
[54:39] Speaker 3: traffic it to this day. They all traffic in the
[54:41] Speaker 3: fear the domination, and she just yeah, she pushed the buttons.
[54:45] Speaker 2: Now, of course, when she's arrested, Corfield's betrayed by her
[54:47] Speaker 2: brother Bill, who gave her up, and by went Tennis
[54:50] Speaker 2: and who gave her up, and most of brother Bill
[54:52] Speaker 2: was the one who you know, it was his idea
[54:54] Speaker 2: to rob the bank. It was with Tennis's idea, like, yeah,
[54:57] Speaker 2: I've done it before, we could do it. So the
[54:59] Speaker 2: two like tough time, ended up being the biggest punks.
[55:02] Speaker 2: As Cora told the Philadelphia Inquirer, my brother gave the
[55:05] Speaker 2: whole thing away. I'll show him when I get hold
[55:07] Speaker 2: of him. So she's like put me in the men's
[55:09] Speaker 2: side of the prison. To August twenty first, now, eighteen
[55:12] Speaker 2: ninety seven, Cora Hubbard and her nitwit brother Bill are arrested.
[55:15] Speaker 2: Her lover John Sheets eventually gets rounded up her day
[55:18] Speaker 2: or two later, because he does show up all gun
[55:21] Speaker 2: shot up.
[55:21] Speaker 3: Oh good for him.
[55:22] Speaker 2: Yeah, he makes it just like he promised her. She
[55:25] Speaker 2: got one good man in her life. That's so. When
[55:27] Speaker 2: a reporter from the Saint Louis Globe Democrat arrives to
[55:30] Speaker 2: interview Cora in jail, she gives his exhibition to what
[55:32] Speaker 2: a badass outlaw she believes herself to be. As the
[55:35] Speaker 2: Globe Democrat reports, quote, an MPT Winchester rifle was handled
[55:39] Speaker 2: by her, and she handled it like an experienced shot.
[55:41] Speaker 2: She talked about Belle Starr, a noted Indian territory desperado,
[55:45] Speaker 2: and said she'd seen her, but would not tell where.
[55:49] Speaker 2: So she's linking herself to the great outlaws at this point.
[55:51] Speaker 2: Now the reporter from the Globe Democrat, he's duly impressed,
[55:54] Speaker 2: and he writes that quote, she is seemingly perfectly fearless,
[55:56] Speaker 2: and so appeared during the bank robbery when she was
[55:59] Speaker 2: the list of the three according to Cashier Shields. And
[56:03] Speaker 2: also the same writer adds that quote, she has the
[56:05] Speaker 2: manners of a tough character and seem to enjoy the
[56:08] Speaker 2: notoriety she has attained, so Basically, Kor is living it
[56:12] Speaker 2: up in jail. She's finally made it to the high life.
[56:14] Speaker 2: She imagines the notoriety. She's an outlaw. She her name
[56:17] Speaker 2: will live for ages in Indian Territory, and since hers
[56:21] Speaker 2: is a short lived outlaw career, the Philadelphia choir is
[56:24] Speaker 2: only too happy to oblige her and treat her like
[56:26] Speaker 2: the outlaw she clearly wants to be, so, as the
[56:28] Speaker 2: Inquirer writes, she's fairly well educated, but it is in
[56:32] Speaker 2: shooting that she excels. It is said that she can
[56:34] Speaker 2: outshoot any of the members of her gang. In spite
[56:37] Speaker 2: of the fact that kra Hubbard is probably the worst
[56:39] Speaker 2: and wickedest woman on this part of the globe. She
[56:42] Speaker 2: has never been known to drink any kind of intoxicating liquids.
[56:45] Speaker 2: But when the gang makes a successful raid and she
[56:48] Speaker 2: can get her hands on some good cigars, she takes
[56:50] Speaker 2: her choice of the weeds and smokes to her heart's content. Right,
[56:55] Speaker 2: So she's more man than everyone is, essentially the implication,
[56:58] Speaker 2: right yeah. And also the point of the quote is
[57:00] Speaker 2: to kind of illustrate that American newspaper writers have always
[57:03] Speaker 2: been unreliable because right journalists tend to tell the story
[57:06] Speaker 2: they prefer rather than the one that's right there.
[57:08] Speaker 4: Before those those days too, with all the yellow journalism,
[57:12] Speaker 4: it's yeah, it's not even what you prefer. What's gonna
[57:14] Speaker 4: sell them, it's like the daily that's what they prefer,
[57:16] Speaker 4: is the selling. Yeah, and what's then gonna raise their
[57:19] Speaker 4: own profile. Now, what I think is interesting is that
[57:22] Speaker 4: around that time they had all these like traveling shows
[57:25] Speaker 4: and not necessarily like a wild Bill Hitcock type thing,
[57:28] Speaker 4: but of that, but the wild yeah, and or just
[57:32] Speaker 4: even oddities and performances.
[57:33] Speaker 3: And we've talked about this with other outlaws of that era.
[57:37] Speaker 4: That if they do a little bit of time, then
[57:39] Speaker 4: they come out and they join those and they perform.
[57:41] Speaker 2: And so she's kind of basic building.
[57:43] Speaker 3: Her legs, setting herself up for that.
[57:44] Speaker 2: It sounds like she wants to be the second Bell Star,
[57:47] Speaker 2: right so, and not only like you know, does it bleed,
[57:49] Speaker 2: it leads, So she didn't make anyone really bleed. So
[57:52] Speaker 2: she's got to like fictionalize it. And you know, that's
[57:55] Speaker 2: what the journalists find. They find they decide, oh yeah,
[57:58] Speaker 2: she's a rough and tumble heart shooting female, and by god,
[58:01] Speaker 2: that's what she is. So the Cora Hubbard Lady Bandit story,
[58:05] Speaker 2: the Philadelphi Inquirer. Then, like embellishes, they describe her appearance,
[58:08] Speaker 2: and they sum up her home life like Cora is
[58:11] Speaker 2: when she is at home a passable girl, although the
[58:13] Speaker 2: hard life has led its traces in her countenance. She's
[58:17] Speaker 2: only five feet and two inches in height, rather stout,
[58:20] Speaker 2: very active and with a searching eye. She wears her
[58:23] Speaker 2: hair cut short, and when on duty, that is, when
[58:26] Speaker 2: about to commit a murder or some financial depredation, wears
[58:30] Speaker 2: men's attire. Her home is that weird city, Kansas, and
[58:32] Speaker 2: she sometimes goes there to visit her father and mother,
[58:35] Speaker 2: whom she regularly supplies with money on which they live
[58:38] Speaker 2: in idle life. The mother and father know of her
[58:42] Speaker 2: evil life, but they say they do not care so
[58:44] Speaker 2: long as she keeps the financial end of their establishment
[58:47] Speaker 2: in running order.
[58:48] Speaker 4: So they're just blowing up, they're expanding out stuff that
[58:51] Speaker 4: just never happened totally.
[58:52] Speaker 2: And also, in like more modern parlance, it's the whole.
[58:55] Speaker 2: She's no angel, you know, she's.
[58:56] Speaker 3: No angel, but also look at this, look at this
[58:59] Speaker 3: freak total and.
[59:00] Speaker 2: It's also lies like her evil life, and like she's
[59:04] Speaker 2: her many robberies or paint for her father's life, the murders.
[59:08] Speaker 2: None of this is true, right, So to help along
[59:10] Speaker 2: Chorus mythos. When she's arrested, it's discovered that Cora has
[59:13] Speaker 2: been carrying that law Bob Dalton's pistol. So she tells
[59:16] Speaker 2: the newspaper men that she first eased into out law life,
[59:19] Speaker 2: remember when she was going to dances with the Daltons,
[59:22] Speaker 2: and because she liked her ways. And so when they
[59:24] Speaker 2: discovered she's carrying Bob Dalton's gun, she tells reporters more honestly,
[59:28] Speaker 2: quote I got Bob Dalton's gun in Chetopah. I bought
[59:32] Speaker 2: it from some fella. I knew the gun, and I
[59:34] Speaker 2: haven't had it over three months. It hasn't the same
[59:37] Speaker 2: handles it had, and has been cut down some as
[59:40] Speaker 2: it had a twelve inch bar. That's a heck of
[59:43] Speaker 2: a gun. So about her dressing like a man, Chorus said,
[59:45] Speaker 2: and I quote, I made a pretty good looking man.
[59:48] Speaker 2: She also added that it wasn't her custom to wear
[59:50] Speaker 2: men's clothes per se, or she put it, I never
[59:53] Speaker 2: wear men's clothes except when I go out on a raid.
[59:55] Speaker 2: I like nice clothes as well, as any woman. When
[59:57] Speaker 2: I get out, I think I'll go back to teaching pain.
[1:00:00] Speaker 2: Oh right, another word to Elizabeth Corra Hubbard, lady bandit
[1:00:04] Speaker 2: contains multitudes.
[1:00:05] Speaker 4: It does like some saying it's practicality, like she's not
[1:00:08] Speaker 4: gonna get all gussied up.
[1:00:10] Speaker 2: Oh yeah, not at all. I remember, she's all she's
[1:00:12] Speaker 2: talking about, Like when I go out on a raid. Girl,
[1:00:14] Speaker 2: you've been on one raid? Right, So, but so the
[1:00:20] Speaker 2: adjuson Daily Globe newspaper. They also send out a reporter
[1:00:23] Speaker 2: and there's September fourteenth, eighteen ninety seven edition the paper
[1:00:26] Speaker 2: publishers its take on Cora Hubbard. And you'll note the
[1:00:28] Speaker 2: paper also celebrates where they prefer to see rather than
[1:00:31] Speaker 2: her multitudes. Yeah so, and I quote Cara Hubbard is
[1:00:35] Speaker 2: a bank robber, She has a fine shot, an expert horsewoman,
[1:00:38] Speaker 2: and a raider with a record. She is the newest
[1:00:40] Speaker 2: of new women right up to date, fearless, dogged, and desperate.
[1:00:44] Speaker 2: At the age of twenty, she rode with Bob Dalton
[1:00:46] Speaker 2: in the sum of the bloodiest expeditions ever organized in
[1:00:49] Speaker 2: the West. How many men she had killed may never
[1:00:52] Speaker 2: be known. It's just all lies, right, Yeah, but I
[1:00:55] Speaker 2: saved my favorite parts. While the robbery was in progress,
[1:00:58] Speaker 2: a posse of citizens was formed and they gave chase
[1:01:01] Speaker 2: to the highwaymen. A running skirmish insured and many shots
[1:01:04] Speaker 2: were exchanged. Cora Hubbard's hat was pierced by three bullets
[1:01:08] Speaker 2: and her horse was shot and killed, yet she escaped unharmed.
[1:01:12] Speaker 2: Several officials of the bank and other citizens all over
[1:01:15] Speaker 2: the plains of Oklahoma and Indian Territory were led by
[1:01:18] Speaker 2: United States marshals, but she did not give up the
[1:01:21] Speaker 2: wild life of a highwayman until the gang was finally
[1:01:24] Speaker 2: broken up. Bob Dalton was killed, Cherokee Bill was hanged,
[1:01:28] Speaker 2: another of the gang was imprisoned, and the others were scattered.
[1:01:31] Speaker 2: They're just throwing everything now into this story. She's with everybody.
[1:01:36] Speaker 2: She's so But as like I said, almost none of
[1:01:40] Speaker 2: that account is true. But since you mentioned my man
[1:01:41] Speaker 2: Cherokee Bill, I thought i'd throw it in back exactly.
[1:01:44] Speaker 2: Now here's how that same paper explains the meaning and
[1:01:46] Speaker 2: motivation of Cora Hubbard Lady Bandit to their readers quote,
[1:01:50] Speaker 2: the girl seems to have been fascinated with the danger
[1:01:52] Speaker 2: of the life she had been leading, and when her
[1:01:54] Speaker 2: precious brother Bill suggested to her that they rob a bank.
[1:01:57] Speaker 2: She was right with him. It didn't take her too
[1:02:00] Speaker 2: minutes to say yes. What did she care for the danger?
[1:02:03] Speaker 2: She loved the excitement. Since the Dalton crowd had been scattered,
[1:02:06] Speaker 2: she had pined for a taste of the old life.
[1:02:09] Speaker 2: Her nerves were getting rusty. They had been inactive so long.
[1:02:13] Speaker 2: She wanted something to make them tingle and thrill, to
[1:02:15] Speaker 2: warm her stagnated blood and make her pulse beat with
[1:02:19] Speaker 2: the merry leap that it knew of old What better
[1:02:22] Speaker 2: than a bank robbery? Surely there could be nothing more
[1:02:25] Speaker 2: to her liking. She found the excitement, and she enjoyed it.
[1:02:28] Speaker 2: She tried to escape, but failed, though she gave her
[1:02:31] Speaker 2: pursuers a beautiful run for their money, the money she
[1:02:34] Speaker 2: had stolen. She took her arrest philosophically and is prepared
[1:02:37] Speaker 2: to go to the penitentiary if necessary. Like they're just
[1:02:42] Speaker 2: now just riffing. They're jazzing all over her story, like
[1:02:45] Speaker 2: nothing anymore. There's no connection to truth. But isn't that
[1:02:48] Speaker 2: like it's just such a charming set of delusions. And
[1:02:51] Speaker 2: then in such vibrant terms of phrase, I remember this
[1:02:53] Speaker 2: is a twenty year old old woman with one failed
[1:02:55] Speaker 2: bank robbery on her record exactly, but the newspaper men
[1:02:58] Speaker 2: make it out like she's Billy the Kid. And so anyway,
[1:03:01] Speaker 2: like I said earlier at the Top of Americans, we
[1:03:02] Speaker 2: will mythologize the hell out of a criminal. So okay,
[1:03:05] Speaker 2: So now the want to be bank robbers. They're all caught.
[1:03:08] Speaker 2: What about the money they stole? Well, the Marshall's discover
[1:03:11] Speaker 2: it's hidden on the Hubbard family farm. There's twenty five
[1:03:13] Speaker 2: dollars buried in a hill of peppers, one hundred and
[1:03:15] Speaker 2: forty one dollars buried in a hill of potatoes, another
[1:03:18] Speaker 2: ninety one is discovered in a wagon that John Sheet
[1:03:21] Speaker 2: had rowed up when when he arrived at the Hubbard
[1:03:23] Speaker 2: family farm. So they gather up all the money for
[1:03:25] Speaker 2: the most part, but he wouldn't tell the law where
[1:03:27] Speaker 2: the rest was buried. He's like, no, I'm gonna need
[1:03:29] Speaker 2: someone I get out. So when it's time for their trial,
[1:03:32] Speaker 2: Cora Hubbard gets dressed back up in men's clothes and
[1:03:35] Speaker 2: is handed an empty Winchester so she can pose for
[1:03:37] Speaker 2: photographs for the newspaper men. So yeah, she basically her
[1:03:41] Speaker 2: her it's like, what did you wear that one Tuesday?
[1:03:43] Speaker 2: This is not like her normal attire, but she does it.
[1:03:46] Speaker 2: We'll put the image up on Instagram. It's a fun
[1:03:48] Speaker 2: photo anyway. After their trials, Cora Hubbard, John Sheets wit Tennyson,
[1:03:52] Speaker 2: of course, we're all found guilty. Cora and John. They
[1:03:55] Speaker 2: catch ten year stretches. Wit Tennyson has given a twelve
[1:03:58] Speaker 2: year bid since he had that prior record. So they're
[1:04:00] Speaker 2: sent off to Detroit House of Corrections, and, as the
[1:04:03] Speaker 2: New York World reports quote, during her confinement here, she
[1:04:06] Speaker 2: occupied the east cell and the female department, and in
[1:04:09] Speaker 2: the absence of prison companions, devoted most of her time
[1:04:12] Speaker 2: to reading cheap, trashy novels, seldom reading or calling for
[1:04:17] Speaker 2: a newspaper unless it contained an account of her crime
[1:04:19] Speaker 2: or that of her two partners in the bank raid.
[1:04:22] Speaker 2: Like really, so she's back to who she was as
[1:04:25] Speaker 2: a girl, reading trashy novels, exact, dreaming of being an outlaw,
[1:04:29] Speaker 2: but she'd kind of made it. I feel like the
[1:04:30] Speaker 2: trashy novels and reading stories really gives more insight than
[1:04:33] Speaker 2: almost all the other things we've heard. Yeah, Soso, especially
[1:04:36] Speaker 2: about the whole mythos building and the Purple pros and
[1:04:39] Speaker 2: the fascination with Belle Star. Anyway, on the day after
[1:04:42] Speaker 2: Christmas nineteen oh four, the governor of Missouri commutes Cora
[1:04:45] Speaker 2: Hubbard's sentence three years early. She's released on New Year's Day.
[1:04:49] Speaker 2: New Year knew me.
[1:04:50] Speaker 4: Yeah.
[1:04:51] Speaker 2: After her release, she finds work as a seamstress, and
[1:04:53] Speaker 2: then she just disappears from the pages of history. The
[1:04:56] Speaker 2: date of her death is unknown because there's no obituary
[1:04:59] Speaker 2: written for her. Over time her outlaw life, try as
[1:05:02] Speaker 2: she might, and all those reporters tried, despite being you know,
[1:05:05] Speaker 2: like aided and abetted by the media, she's largely forgotten.
[1:05:08] Speaker 2: And so ends the tale of Coral Hubbard. Lady Bandit. So, Elizabeth,
[1:05:12] Speaker 2: what's our ridiculous takeaway here?
[1:05:13] Speaker 4: We hardly knew ye I you know again, the fantastic
[1:05:19] Speaker 4: tales of that era of newspaper work are incredible, that
[1:05:24] Speaker 4: you know what they're inventing, and the mythos and the
[1:05:28] Speaker 4: one that she perpetuated like she was twenty and she
[1:05:31] Speaker 4: had one field base.
[1:05:32] Speaker 2: It's also very much. It reminded me of the influencers.
[1:05:34] Speaker 2: You've told me stories about where they're using the media
[1:05:37] Speaker 2: to project this image that will make them famous. As
[1:05:41] Speaker 2: you said, they can get out and go do Wild
[1:05:43] Speaker 2: West show. Then they'll be rich, right, they'll be able
[1:05:45] Speaker 2: to cash in on it. So this is like once again,
[1:05:47] Speaker 2: there is nothing new under the sun, just some things change,
[1:05:50] Speaker 2: like oh we have to point and click instead of
[1:05:52] Speaker 2: doing the telegraph.
[1:05:53] Speaker 3: Absolutely, Zaren, what's your ridiculous takeaway?
[1:05:56] Speaker 2: My ridiculous takeaway? Thank you for asking, Elizabeth. Is it's
[1:06:00] Speaker 2: hard out there being a lady banded, It really is,
[1:06:03] Speaker 2: you know, like you got to be true to yourself
[1:06:04] Speaker 2: and then the world's not true to you, and it's
[1:06:06] Speaker 2: just like a mess of fictions and nonfiction's all running us.
[1:06:10] Speaker 4: Lady bandits and lady hosts and lady rude dudes have
[1:06:14] Speaker 4: a lot to be angry.
[1:06:15] Speaker 2: About, yes, And also don't you love her anger?
[1:06:18] Speaker 4: And I feel like I can identify with that sometimes,
[1:06:22] Speaker 4: you know, you just like you just want to do
[1:06:23] Speaker 4: your thing right, just be great, pigeonholed and not be underestimated.
[1:06:29] Speaker 4: And you know, and I think too that if if
[1:06:32] Speaker 4: any we're talking about lady has, if any man rude
[1:06:35] Speaker 4: dudes were to hear that and be offended, well, maybe
[1:06:37] Speaker 4: do a little introspection if that upsets you.
[1:06:39] Speaker 2: To hear, totally. And also I do love her multitude
[1:06:42] Speaker 2: where she's like, sometimes I want to be wearing men's
[1:06:44] Speaker 2: floating robbing banks, sometimes I want to wear dresses to
[1:06:47] Speaker 2: read trash or not just one thing exactly. Yeah, she
[1:06:52] Speaker 2: has a continuum, so uh in the mood for a
[1:06:55] Speaker 2: talk back, I am always producer. Can you favor us
[1:06:57] Speaker 2: with one?
[1:07:02] Speaker 4: Oh my god, ill ge.
[1:07:11] Speaker 3: Saren Elizabeth. It's your best friend Aaron here in Oregon.
[1:07:14] Speaker 3: I just had to say that Philip the Tub.
[1:07:17] Speaker 2: Yes, it's a mob name, and it's the mob name
[1:07:19] Speaker 2: of the skinniest dude you've ever seen.
[1:07:22] Speaker 3: Yes, totally, just like just you know, book twenty five.
[1:07:31] Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you. Uh, well, you know, as always. You
[1:07:37] Speaker 2: can find us online Ridiculous Crime on Blue Sky and Instagram,
[1:07:41] Speaker 2: and we have the Ridiculous Crime pod over on YouTube
[1:07:44] Speaker 2: if you like getting your podcasts there, and they got
[1:07:47] Speaker 2: some cool animations, and we have our website Ridiculous Crime
[1:07:49] Speaker 2: dot com. Go check it out. The merch there's gifts,
[1:07:53] Speaker 2: there's a design. I think we were named it James
[1:07:56] Speaker 2: Beard finalists this year, so I'm very excited about.
[1:07:58] Speaker 3: That whole hypnosis section yeah, there is.
[1:08:01] Speaker 2: The self help then hypnosis section. Also does the iHeart app.
[1:08:04] Speaker 2: You can download that leave a talkback maybe hear your
[1:08:07] Speaker 2: voice here and you know we'd love to hear it,
[1:08:09] Speaker 2: so please go try that out and eken the email
[1:08:12] Speaker 2: us if you'd like at Ridiculous Crime at gmail dot com.
[1:08:14] Speaker 2: We love to get your email, so also try that
[1:08:16] Speaker 2: to extend your reach and as always, thank you for listening.
[1:08:20] Speaker 2: We will catch you next crime. Ridiculous Crime is hosted
[1:08:28] Speaker 2: by Elizabeth Dutton and Zaron Brunette, produced and edited by
[1:08:31] Speaker 2: our Man Quit with the Winchester It's Dave Kustin and
[1:08:35] Speaker 2: starring Annalie's Rucker as Judd. Research is by the Smith
[1:08:38] Speaker 2: to Our Wesson, Marissa Brown and Jabbari Davis. Our theme
[1:08:42] Speaker 2: song is by our house band Cherokee Bill and the
[1:08:44] Speaker 2: Presidential Pardons aka Thomas Lee and Travis Dutton. The host
[1:08:48] Speaker 2: wardrobe provided by Bondy five hundred guest Haaron macup by
[1:08:52] Speaker 2: Sparkleshot and Mister Andre. Executive producers are Twenty first Century
[1:08:56] Speaker 2: Gentleman bandits Ben Bolin and Nolan.
[1:09:05] Speaker 3: Ridicous Crime Say It One More Time Ridiquious Crime.
[1:09:12] Speaker 1: Ridiculous Crime is a production of iHeartRadio. Four more podcasts
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